There is no correct way to write poetry! But one thing to remember is that poetry is like whiskey and prose is like beer.
This is not true - there are many incorrect ways to write poetry, therefore there must be at least a broadly 'correct' way.
On the other hand I think there is a vast amount of words posted on the Internet under the guise of poetry, that lacks the essential spark needed to create the magic required.
That elusive 'spark ' you allude to is the AHA!!! moment that all good poets strive for whether, in stream of consciousness, ballad, or, my favorite, the Limerick...
The use of simile, alliteration, and all the myriad uses of conveying emotion and wonder through our use of a very complex language known as English, all contribute to a fully realized inspiration that, like Keat's " When I have fears that I may cease to be ", the articulate beauty of his poem is savored line by line, until the very end when " the message " is exposed...
I have to disagree with Wolf Larson...Rhyming poetry is not dead, nor will it ever be, as long as the human mind can wring pathos and pleasure out of a language that cries out for rhyme and rhythm...I think it speaks to the discipline required, with words newly sired, and the challenge to fit, as Coleridge has writ: ( Sorry for the rhyming lapse ) “ prose are words in their best order; poetry is the best
words in their best order.”
if there is no way to write correct poetry, how can you say any one form of poetry is dead?
Oh me,oh my,
of scantily clad
Rhymes and lines
found a place
I like maven 101's post, I think he hit it well.
Shadesbreath, simply poetic brilliance.
So how do you differentiate between prose and poetry?
I knew there was a reason why I was a lover of beer, although I love my red wine as well. Whiskey did me in when I was a Jack lover, but no more thanks. I'll stick to beer and wine and write my prose and expose myself to the world.
The simplest definition that I can think of for poetry is an organization of words to form a coherent thought while being arranged rhythmically. I don't neccesarily mean rhythm as established meter such as iambic, dactylic, or trochaic, but simply words arranged in a way that establishes a pattern and repeats that pattern.
One of the most definable characteristics of the poetic form is economy of language. Poets are miserly and unrelentingly critical in the way they dole out words to a page. Carefully selecting words for conciseness and clarity is standard, even for writers of prose, but poets go well beyond this, considering a word's emotive qualities, its musical value, its spacing, and yes, even its spacial relationship to the page. The poet, through innovation in both word choice and form, seemingly rends significance from thin air.
maven101, I think your post is the most accurate so far. Nice description.
maven101, Nice description.
You have a good way of explaining things.
Man...that is good stuff, Maven 101. I have to copy this definition down. Like usual...you bring your wisdom and knowledge to bear on this Hubpage community...and we are the better to have read such insight! Peace to you, my friend!
Steve...You are the perfect example of the natural poet that writes about what they have experienced, not fluffed up make-believe...You write about nature, man's place on this earth, pathos and pain, quiet, reflective joy, all of which you have experienced directly...
All of your poetry reflects a sense of optimism which always leaves me with a good feeling...
Wolf Larson has stated " The rhyme in poetry is dead. It's been dead for quite some time. If contemporary poets want to sabotage themselves with the rhyme let them do so, it's their problem."...Obviously he has not read any of your brilliant rhyming poems, and the problem is his alone...
'Tis you, my friend...who is the one that bring forth great words...and writings filled with wisdom. But...I surely appreciate what you've said, Larry.
I find it interesting that so often, the Forums is kind'a the place to get things off your chest (for some). But...I can't for the life of me understand why "Poetry" would be on the hit list. Rhyming things...for some...just happens! Putting crafted words into some individual meaning...or trying to portray something bigger then oneself...is a natural extension of writing...that takes shape in the form of "poetry". Rhyming is a natural extension of Poetry. Many, Many Songs are actual Poems set to music. The rhyme in these songs fills our heads and brings images to life. We accept these songs with all kind of rhymes from ancient country "twang-isms" type songs ...on up to heavy-duty rock and roll. And rhyme has taken on even new meaning with the advent of rap music. Still...some choose to give Poetry a snub...or sneering comment.
Men of old said their poems in "Manly" fashion and it was not deliberated upon...from back in their time until the present. Yet...Poetry today is percieved oddly by some. Probably not the majority...but still by some. I have found it curious...since my stay here on Hubpages...since I have seen all kinds of declarations against Poetry. Pretty Astonishing that it gets so much attention...perhaps many writers out there are jealous of the media that Poetry is able to present to the world. It takes a person...when carefully crafted...to another place...that they otherwise would never go!
You, my friend...are a Master at Prose...bringing forth carefully crafted words, hidden within your own vast array of philophosy, readings, views from educated minds, and life experiences learned over time. Taken from your haiku...one sees images that exist only through words. Words that have been made clear...even with many meanings hidden! What other form of writing can match Poetry?
So with every counter-measure in place against those who would speak ill or question "Poetry"...let me just say that the writing form known as "Poetry"...with all its quirky incorrectness and unusual speech. Will...no longer be taken lightly...or be automatically presumed to be in reference to someone who is "light' in the loafers...ha!
The "Poet" is no longer the softly-spoken, quiet and meek nerd...writing romantic poems from the far corner desk of the classroom...to give anonymously to a "hopeful" grlfriend. No...the Poet of today has been elevated in Society from this day forward...so says natural consensus!(or maybe...it is only from mere ramblings...as these!)
Is there a correct way to write Poetry? Is Poetry an Art Form? Is Poetry better when it rhymes...or with narrative prose? To those who would ask these silly things...I give you Hubpage Poets. Read, Pick, and Decide from all that is out there...All you "Poetry" question askers...
Then give Poetry a break...(all them that doubt the Power of Poetry!)...and let us "Poets" get on with it...Ha!
Best to you...my long standing Hubpage friend...Have a good one!
There are certain poems that DO have a correct way to be written. So your statement is incorrect only because it's all encompassing.
Of course there are certain ways to write poetry but I believe if it is flowing, has meaning and is strong, then that's all that counts.:-)
For me, writing poetry has to have a rhythm. There has to be a flow whether that's matching rhymes, structure or syllables.
The rhyme in poetry is dead. It's been dead for quite some time. If contemporary poets want to sabotage themselves with the rhyme let them do so, it's their problem.
Others said something about rhythm. They're right. Poetry and music are twins. You can have music without poetry but you can't have good poetry without music, I mean the rhythm of music, even if that music is only in your head.
Grammar rules have no place in poetry. Grammar rules belong in airport novels, grammar school essays, and books on used car repair. When you're being creative throw the rules of grammar in the garbage can. Write whatever you want to write!
Maven said much the same what I said, but in a much more elegant, sophisticated, and intellectual manner. Since I am neither very elegant or sophisticated or very smart I'll stick with: "Poetry is like whiskey, and prose is like beer."
Rhyme in poetry is not dead. That will never be. A rather bold statement to make.
This is just wrong -
poetry is created by the use and misuse of rules to make specific effects, throwing out all the rules and just "writing what you want to write" only produces emotional drivel.
I have to agree with recommend1. If you're writing for yourself, by all means, do what you like. If you're writing for an audience, you should know rules before breaking them. I've read a lot of student poetry from those who didn't understand the rules to begin with, and it's rough, to say the least.
I agree... know the rules before you break them... and make breaking them an artistic choice. I always tell my students, you can't play the piano without learning to play... how can you write poetry without reading poetry?
Excellent observations with which I totally agree...As much as most poets rebel against it, discipline is primary in poetic expression...That discipline begins by understanding what poetry and prose are all about through reading, increasing your vocabulary, and creating your own style...
The notion of a poem, in which words are braided, woven, in the most personal way to the relation of every kind of bliss and pain, in which reading and the risks of real life are subject to the same anamnesis, those of "life" and those of the poems text, is usually presented in a stream-of consciousness form so popular here in HubPages...
It may look easy to write, but that is part of the trick of classic prose. It is efficient and precise, and seems utterly spontaneous. However, that natural sound is not the sound of speech...it is the sound of writing...The poet therefore never descends to grinding persuasion; an unobstructed view of things is always enough. It would seem that prose without style (if such a thing exists) would be very, very difficult to read, wouldn't it?
I never was very stylish. My wife chooses my clothes...Larry
I had a coat
The coat was blue
It got me through the cold
thats what they do.
I had a pair of boots
that went splish splash splash
they go through water
as I make a quick dash.
Rhyme: (rap old school and bad)
I am the master you know
get off me yo!
kicken me around?
Sinful is bound.
Dirty rotten trick
aint keeping me down.
I have a buck in my pocket
That is all I've got
but I will spend it on you honey
because I love you alot.
A essence of the estuary
is brown water carrying loam.
However, today is colored emerald
at a point the river calls home.
The birds fly suspended
in motion by the wind.
The air comes inward
cooling from a bay so kind.
While some poetry does not need any rhyme. There are many very current forms of poetry like the ones aforementioned that rely on the meter and tempo created by rhyme. I would some of my peotry has rhyme and some doesnt. The meter coalesces with the meaning and is nice to read.
As for poems, I agree that there are no rules.........But like paintings and other art, poetry can create beauty and inspire and describe great meaning that is able to be written in a otherwise descriptive manner.
As a person writes they create a painting. The key is to write beautifully with the audience in mind. Great artists have a great empathy for their audience as that is what makes them great.
A moment in life is but once.
Our heart gets captured
and a happiness is created
forever around our yore.
I had loved a silent one
whos eyes in trance's light
grabbed my heart and created
a very beautiful sight.
As one so young the love
some would say is not real.
The feeling has much power
which inspire us in life.
A grand memory...............
There will be no end to Poetry with Rhyme...
For they both co-exist together...Always...and All the Time!
Although...not trying to start-up on an argument with you. I find it perplexingly "odd"...that you would make the statement that "Rhyme in Poetry is Dead" and then not expect a personal attack against you...which you, yourself stated is common on the internet...and then decide to answer back two weeks later when the topic has died...to get the last word.
"Why all the sarcasm intended towards Poetry...What'd ever do to you, Man?"
Poetry is probably more like wine- it can be sweet, dry or frizzante but it should always make one more aware of life - be it 'dolce vita' or not.
So if poetry is like whiskey
And prose is like beer
Then what kind of writing
And who says that poetry
With rhyming is dead?
I asked Dr. Seuss
And that’s not what he said.
What’s dead is the discipline,
Mastery stuffed on a shelf
Everyone’s a poet
After Song of Myself
Old Walt he could do it
So it’s easy for me
Throw some words in a pile,
An emotional spree.
Oh look how I’m feeling
My mommy was mean
My dad was a drinker
And ohhhh the woe I have seen
A blabbity blah
And a narf narf narf
Most people’s poetry
Just makes me barf.
It’s sentimental drivel
Filled with “love,” “hope” and “fear”
Short whiny sentences
Don’t make you Shakespeare.
I had more fun writing that than anything I've written in a week lol. Go figure.
Hey Shadesbreath, so does that mean you have to write something new? Hmmmm.....sounds like a ... might be a good idea?
I should, but I can't. I have other crap I have to do. A nice beer driven hub challenge would be fun.
I'm not surprised. Sometimes we need those little breaks.
Speaking of which, I'm about as sick of packing as a person can get, so if y'all decided on a hub challenge, I'm in.
Have another beer and give it a second thought, Shades.
I agree - there is no correct way to write poetry. It is just so wrong.
Doth thou protest against "Poet's" and their writings thereof? You are "wrong" for that! Poetry is an Art form...a form of expressing words in a greater manner then any other form of writing that is out there. Oh yeah...I said it! Poetry Words that can be used to portray an image or to dodge an issue....and still have their meaning clearly defined. Softly spoken words with a loud emphasis. Poetry may be the "Rodney Dangerfield" form of writing in this modern day...But...you shall rue the day...that you ever made such light of it, my friend...Mu-haha! You know not which cage you would rattle...with your smirkish suggestion...of "wrongness". It's on now!
I read this from Nellieanna this morning while trying to catch up on reading hubs. Her work is an example of poetry done very well, notice the rhyming poems.
http://hubpages.com/hub/Thimbles-Rhythm … ngs-Part-3
A comment from someone that has no hubs here at all is pretty offensive , and i stand to tell you that "you dont know a damn thing about poetry! and i dont really care who you are , this comment and i quote "The rhyme in poetry is dead" is bologney! ,just who are you to judge anyones work or the type of writing style that they prefer? where are your hubs anyway? you have been on this site for 5 months and i see absolutely nothing! ... why a re you here should be your next question! I think you said it best in one of your comments , that your not very smart . angrily ,
I'm a poetry lover of pros and rhymes. I believe the best way to write a poem is to simply write what's in your heart at the time, in whatever format you prefer. I've published a poety book and have posted a couple of poems here on hubpages.
I'm with you (excuse me, my first visit to the forums) as long as you write from the heart and believe in what you’re writing about then it shouldn’t matter whether it is poetry, prose or however else people like to write. The whole point in writing is to enjoy the task and hope that your readers enjoy reading it.
I mainly write for myself, to put my feelings into words, no matter how I write it or publish it or post it in a hub or elsewhere.
I love to read all types of writing
I was devastated when I saw several statements that rhyming was dead. Rhyming is the way I enjoy writing, not only do I try to get my message across in a way that others will enjoy reading but I also enjoy the challenge of trying to make it rhyme.
I think of poetry like I do art. There are so many types and styles that appeal to various taste and people. Poetry is a type of expression like other types of expression that have been / will be discussed and analyzed throughout the ages. Many people are passionate about art as they are poetry and prose, which I think is the key. Poetry seeps through your consciousness and hits you in a place that is personal whether it rhymes or not.
Somebody made a personal attack against me. That kind of thing is unfortunately so common on the Internet, anyway I'm just going to ignore them.
If it makes you happy to write a poem that rhymes by all means go right on ahead! There are people who still paint in the impressionistic style, because it helps them to relax.
However, somebody painting in the impressionistic style in the 21st Century is not making a significant contribution to painting. But maybe they're just relaxing. That's fine!
Remember, virtually every art movement was something new and exciting! Painting has developed so fast, and there is such a wonderful variety of painting.
It's such a shame that the literary world is in contrast so backward and conservative. We now have personal computers to help us experiment and come up with new and more interesting varieties of literature. We now have the Internet and self-publishing and e-books and Amazon.com to go around the traditional publishing industry, who were always hostile to innovation.
It's up to all of you - or perhaps a few of you that have the creativity and vision - to write a bold and exciting new literature - whether that be in prose or poetry.
Perhaps others are just relaxing with poetry, the same way some people relax by painting in a Impressionist style in the 20th Century. That's fine. People who relax more are undoubtably much happier people.
Poetry is creating music in words.
Rhyme and rhythm help to create the music.
While poetry can exist without overt rhyme and rhythm, it needs the music.
In my opinion, only a great poet can create the music of poetry without overt rhyme and rhythm. Their works generally contain more subtle forms of half rhyme and hints at rhythm.
Others who attempt this simply end up spewing out their emotional garbage in an undisciplined way that is painful for their readers.
A series of long ungrammatical statements, chopped up and formed into a number of lines is not poetry, despite the fact many people like to think it is.
They also said that Impressionism, Cubism, Fauvism, etc. wasn't painting. It was new and unique at its time.
I can remember back in the old days sitting through poetry readings were some poets with their rhymes would torture us with their poems that sounded like fingernails on blackboard. Well, that's just what it felt like to me. But what I liked about these events is that everybody had the right to read their poetry.
I often pass by galleries that sell "fine art". I guess much of what's in the windows is in "good taste", but it's almost like watered-down Impressionism, Cubism, Fauvism - people who like to dabble in the stuff 100 years or more after it's already been done. But maybe they make a lot of money from it I don't know - certainly a lot more money than originators like Vincent van Gogh ever made.
Sadly, somebody defended the use of personal attacks on the Internet. To me, there's not much distinction between personal attacks on the Internet and cyber-bullying. This person misrepresented what I said about poetry. I like poetry by pioneers like Octavio Paz, Anne Sexton, and others.
I didn't come back to the topic for two weeks because I was busy with other things. I feel very passionately about poetry, literature in general, and art, and love a great debate when I can find the time.
I can remember before certain wonderful relatives died that we all had some great debates over the kitchen table. They were loud, but they were fun, and very civil. It was rare that two different relatives at these gatherings had the same opinion. But they were mostly immigrants, and I suppose in those cultures that they came from the debate was simply a much higher cultural form than it is in Anglo-Saxon cultures. It's very unfortunate, but it seems to be true.
Well, famous artists in the past would often learn their skills and perfect them sometimes spending years working for an artist with more experience (if not talent). They often lived surrounded by an artistic community and from this a style of the era might emerge. The artist who were by then accomplished draughtsmen would sometimes go on to produce their own master-pieces. I think it is rare that someone creates a new style instantly and in isolation, as it probably takes time for it to evolve and grow into a new and recognisable concept. Many paintings tell a story through the objects within them and the symbols that they represent, which are not always obvious to another generation.
I suppose I am also saying that understanding the rules and throwing them out of the window is different to never being aware of them. Unfortunately there is a lot of (poetic) drivel written and a lot of it ends up on the internet, the fact that the writer might think is brilliant or that it is poetic does not make it so. A lot of what is passed off as poetry is a type of therapy which is not a bad thing it just does not make it an art form unless it is written skilfully. This is not about anyone who writes on HubPages it is just my opinion and I will be the first to admit I have at times strung together a few lines that made me cringe when I read them back.
Tuesday made some good points. Whether it's traditional or innovative there is lots of bad poetry everywhere - in the bookstores, on the Internet, and I would argue in the cannon as well.
Actually, I also think I was a bit harsh in my earlier comment about the quality of the debate here. The quality of the discussion here is quite good, but also a certain negative post (which was a personal attack as opposed to debate) appears to have been deleted.
Going back to Tuesday's point about the rules: Picasso mastered most forms of traditional painting before he became an innovator. And he mastered most forms of traditional painting when he was a child - he spent his entire adult life creating innovative works.
THE WOLF LARSEN MANIFESTO
1. All great Writers should gather at the entrances of the major publishing houses and urinate on their doorsteps!
2. All great Poets should use the pages of the country’s most prestigious literary magazines as toilet paper!
3. All “poets” that rhyme should be castrated at once!
4. Poetry and prose should be immoral and blasphemous! If your poetry shocks and offends religious extremists, puritanical feminists, politicians, black nationalists, white supremacists, and everybody else than you’re probably doing something right! The paintings of Picasso, the symphonies of Mahler, and the sculptures of Rodin shocked and offended many people too! The last thing the world needs is more boring polite “literature”!
5. If you write prose just like ten thousand other writers than why bother writing? Garbage men contribute far more to society than “writers” and “poets” that write like everybody else! No two authors or poets should read even remotely alike!
6. From this day forward the words Poet, Writer, Sculptor, Playwright, Painter, Composer, and all other Artists should appear in capitals. After all, some guy named god who doesn’t even exist appears in capitals and since Artists are greater than god than words like Poet and Artist should be capitalized.
7. There is no god as written in the bible. Rather, every Human Being that lives on earth is a god because Humans are the most creative animals on the planet. Therefore, Artists are gods!
8. Who cares about the rules of grammar? Take a baseball bat and SMASH the rules of grammar into pieces! Language must obey the wishes of the Writer. The Writer should take language and mold it and reshape it as he sees fit just like a Sculptor.
9. Poets and Writers need to look at the rest of the art world and learn. Poetry and fiction currently appear to be the most backward mediums of the art world. Painting has raced forward like a fast car, jazz music has run forward like a rabbit, even classical music in the last hundred years has left the writing world behind in both innovation and boldness. Writing and poetry are progressing forward at a crawl – just like a snail. All Poets and Writers should think of themselves as wrecking ball operators – we must SMASH the literary world as we know it into bits with a bold and revolutionary writing!
10. The system we live under has nothing to offer but endless wars, prisons, poverty, homophobia, racial and gender discrimination, class oppression, anti-sex puritanism, and human extinction from nuclear war. The literary establishment has nothing to offer us but airport novels, censorship (in the form of political correctness), pretentious “literary” magazines filled with hack “poetry” that sometimes even rhymes, and the never ending boring banal “well-polished” “well-crafted” “literary” fiction whose main purpose seems to be to help insomniacs fall asleep. Bartok’s symphonies don’t help people fall asleep! Igor Stravinsky’s The Rite of Spring caused a riot when it was first played! Jackson Pollock’s paintings can hardly be considered sleepy! Poetry and literature must become explosive, chaotic, alive, exciting, dynamic, etc. – just like the times we live in!
11. More than anything else remember there is no one else like you on the entire planet! So why should you write like everybody else? Write like nobody else writes! If you’re not creative than why should future generations bother reading your writing? Every Writer should be his own literary movement! Every Writer should be his own literary revolution!
Bit extreme views there...? 3. All “poets” that rhyme should be castrated at once.
Hey Wolf...Manifesto this!
A little off the subject, but isn't Wolf Larsen the name of the antagonist from "The Sea Wolf" by Jack London? I am sure it is since I am looking the story as I write this post. (Nice choice in literature, Mr. Larsen.) It fits Mr. Larsen's attitude, at least the attitude he is pushing in the forums.
Yes Leroy you are correct. I liked the name Wolf Larsen when I chose it for a number of reasons. One of those reasons was that I was working on commercial fishing boats in Alaska at the time.
In addition, like me Wolf Larsen is an atheist. He doesn't have much use for tradition. That is, he is self-educated and enjoys reading and discussing the greats of the past, but he is not chained to the past.
Wolf Larsen is also the opposite of the main character who is a more academic type. Academia is enslaved to tradition. It's good to learn about the past, but no great writer is enslaved to the past.
I read The Seawolf over and over from high school to college.
Sounds like we have somewhat different outlooks.
I have a couple of degrees in architecture.
Traditions are useful; but, only if you do not follow them blindly. I hate the idea of dismissing traditions without understanding them. Some traditions still have power.
It has been my experience that Academia always attempts to rewrite the past to fit personal views. Academics are never chained to the past, but to personal egos which blind the scholars to truth and to Truth. I have seen too many scholars ignore facts that are contrary to their pet theories That's what happens when you are isolated from life.
I agree with your last statement. I just substiture artist, architect, carpenter, etc. for writer. That statement fits more situations than writing or art.
You sound like you want to be the shining light for the rest of us. Perhaps you want to start a Revolution in literature? Wouldn't be the first time a self educated man shook things up.
Is there a correct way to write poetry? I have no clue.
I will just continue to have fun writing verse and manipulating the structure of whatever poetry forms I find.
I have to admit, this Forum topic is fun to read
Is there a correct way to Know God? Is there a correct way to Love? Then how can there be a correct way to write a poetry. This thing perplexes me. How can you write a poetry. It just comes out. It is a reflection of your emotions. Its what you feel. This is a work of the heart. The head follows the heart here.
When the heart feels,
When the emotions ooze,
When the conscience awakes,
When the memories engulf,
To each his own!! To me, it's about the emotions that are felt when reading poetic verse. Whatever that verse may be. I tend to 'feel' more from a poem when it is a rhyming verse and that is the style of poetry I prefer to write. I don't think rhyming poetry will ever ever go out of style!!
I think he is just trying to instigate arguments.
He has no hubs and most of his posts are very similar.
Of course he is just trying to instigate arguments. Thats the only reason I follow this thread.
Manifestos are basically calls to revolution, or something like that. His sounds like the other thousands floating around in different fields. You should read some of the one written by architects. I believe that in issuing that manifesto, he has staked his position and he has implied a promise to produce something tangible to back it up.
If I had to judge his work from the only thing I have to read, then he is unfocused. He could write that manifesto in five sentences, if he keeps to the declared subject.
A worker on an alaskan fishing boat , self educated , ummm... seriously? he has NO HUBS , he criticises and he immorally judges ,what he does not understand, he casts away from him , and he has managed to feed all of us that has responded , "a load of crap" , if you will , he manipulated all of us to comment and we fed into it.This is the kind of writing that should be banned(this forum) , by readers that dont know what they are talking about and readers that critisize what they dont understand so they give negative feedback. Its a shame that people cant write without someone criticising negatively. Go criticise my work , because i dont give a dman what you think about it , I like what I write .
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