A Father's Right: Why Men Who Pay Child Support Should be Granted Visitation

Are Courts Doing What is Best for Children?


The United States is a country of fatherless children. More than 50% of American households do not have a father in the home. Statistics over the years point to many social problems as a result of this epidemic. Fatherless boys are twice as likely to end up in prison while fatherless girls are 53% more likely to marry as teenager to have male influence in her life. The statistics on the effects this epidemic has on children are alarming.


In order to rectify the problem, American courts have put stringent child support laws into place. By requiring father's to pay child support, the financial burden of fatherless children are taken off the government and placed upon the father. Most people agree that fathers SHOULD pay child support to their children. Each day, thousands of men are taken to court, ordered to pay their child support and placed in jail if they do not pay. Though the courts are acting in the best interest of fatherless children, this system does little to fix the the social problems of children without fathers.


In cases of divorce and separation, couples attend a court hearing. At this hearing, a judge will normally set a fair child support payment due by the father and set a schedule for visitation if it applies to the case (in the absence of abuse and neglect). However, when the father is not married to the mother, visitation is not considered during the hearing. When unmarried men are brought to court for a child support order, courts do not hear or schedule requests for visitation. Instead, unmarried fathers must obtain an attorney and sue for visitation on their own. Most men paying child support, especially if they have more than one court order are usually unable to pay for an attorney or miss work for what may be a long, drawn out process.


In these cases, it is up to the mothers or guardians of the children to grant these fathers with time to visit their children. Sadly, only 50% of single mothers feel that the involvement of father has any significant impact on the well being of the child. According to the National Center for Fatherhood:


"40% of mothers reported that they had interfered with the non-custodial father's visitation on at least one occasion, to punish the ex-spouse." ~ (NCF 2001).



Mothers who are angry at the fathers for any given reason, ADMIT to making it difficult for fathers to spend time with their children as retaliation. Even if the non-custodial father pays his child support on time, the father without a court order granting him visitation, he will most likely never get to spend time with his child. Mothers must learn that by denying a good father visitation rights to his children, she is only hurting her children.

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Fatherless Children- The Statistics

  • 77% of non-custodial fathers do not have rights to visit their children.
  • Fatherless children have a 63% higher suicide rate than children with fathers.
  • 64% of fatherless child suffer from psychological disorders.
  • Children from single family homes have a 56% chance of poor academic performance.
  • 71% of teenage pregnancies are to children of single parents.
  • Fatherless daughters are 53% more likely to marry as teenagers, 160% more likely to have a premarital birth, and 92% more likely to dissolve their own marriages.
  • 75% of American children living in single-parent families will live in poverty before by the age of 11.

Statistics from: Fathersforlife.org

For Non-Custodial Fathers

National awareness is finally turning to the importance of the father's role in the life of his children. Fathers who pay their child support and do not get visitation access to their children should never give up. For those in this situation, there are several things that can be done to gain visitation rights:

  • Locate a Non-Profit Fatherhood Agency and ask for assistance. Many states have implemented free programs that assist father's with legal issues, visitation, job placement assistance, and counseling.
  • Seek out family law attorneys in your area and ask if they offer any pro-bono (free) services for someone in need. If they do not offer these services, they will be happy to recommend you to someone who does or to a Legal Aid Program.
  • Keep an organized, detailed log of all attempts to visit children including the outcome whether it was positive or negative, log all correspondence with the child's mother or guardian. Maintain receipts for payments made to child support and for any other purchases made on a child's behalf. This will be beneficial when it is time for court.
  • Do not engage in arguments with the child's mother (or guardian), especially in front of the child. This is bad for the father/ child relationship, and gives the mother of the child more reason to deny you visitation. These things will be held against you if you do make it to court.
  • Honestly access your role as a father and whether or not you contribute to the punitive actions of the mother. Consider getting counseling to improve your communication skills or for habits that may hinder you from being given visitation with your child. Take free local parenting classes to enhance your fatherhood skills, especially if you have been separated from your child for an extended period of time or gone through a traumatic situation.
  • Never withhold or deny child support payments to retaliate against your child's mother or guardian. This only hurts your child and can land you in jail for contempt of a court order.
  • Learn exactly how vital it is for you to be a part of your child's life.

For Seperated Fathers:

More by this Author


Comments 73 comments

Rolly A Chabot profile image

Rolly A Chabot 4 years ago from Alberta Canada

Hi Tammy... sadly enough this takes place all over the world. The fatherless child is a child in great need of love, caring and understanding and that puts a great responsibility on the mothers. Children today in the society we live i deserve far better. Hugs to all the Mom's out there who are going it alone... shame on you men for missing out in so many special moments in your children's lives.

Hugs from Canada


tammyswallow profile image

tammyswallow 4 years ago from North Carolina Author

Thanks so much for your wonderful comment Rolly. Children do deserve so much better from the government, and especially both of their parents. I appreciate your visit!


Lord De Cross profile image

Lord De Cross 4 years ago

Darn Tammy you are going to hit some nerves. I don't think things will change much. Been in Court and had seen the same attitude for 30 yrs or more. Your advice is laudable and I applaud your efforts as a paralegal. Thanls for writing this hub! Now, where were we?

LORD


tammyswallow profile image

tammyswallow 4 years ago from North Carolina Author

Thanks for sharing your thoughts Lord. In some instances, nerves should be struck. I appreciate your visit.


BLACKANDGOLDJACK profile image

BLACKANDGOLDJACK 4 years ago from Blitzburgh area

Your premise, as stated in the title of your hub, is absolutely correct. Furthermore, I thought you were very objective in presenting your information.

But let me clarify something. In some states child support and custody/visitation are two separate issues. Pennsylvania is one of those states. You have to go to two separate hearings. I know, I’ve been to both types of hearings. Personally, I think that is a bad idea. The two issues are certainly interrelated and should, in my opinion, be considered together in the overall concept of what’s best for the child.

Incidentally, I have had custody of my teenage daughter for a couple years, and now I’m getting child support, but I’ve been on the other side of that coin. I never really objected to paying child support, but I would have liked to have had more say in what the money was spent for.

I believe that the way the “government” handles these child support matters does more harm than good. Yeah, they get the money. So does the IRS. The “government” exacerbates whatever animosity already exists between the mother and the father, and this certainly does not have a favorable impact on the children.

Well, let’s see if I can end this on a lighter note. You should have seen the look on my ex-wife’s face when she realized she was going to have to pay child support and I was not going to take no for an answer.


tammyswallow profile image

tammyswallow 4 years ago from North Carolina Author

Thanks for sharing that Black and Gold Jack. You sound like an excellent father who does everything he can for his child. In most states, child support and visitation are two separate issues. The mother does not have to pay for an attorney in most cases to get child support. DSS will go after the child support and pay the legal fees. Fathers must initiate the visitation rights and they do not get any sort of funding for their cause. The support and the money are important to the child's welfare, but the time children spend with their fathers is even more important. I am all for mothers who don't have custody paying child support as well. You are a good Dad!


alocsin profile image

alocsin 4 years ago from Orange County, CA

I'm totally unfamiliar with divorce and its consequences -- but am glad that you offer tips for men. I feel a lot of the time, even in these days of gender equality, a lot of divorce proceedings favor the woman. Voting this Up and Useful.


tammyswallow profile image

tammyswallow 4 years ago from North Carolina Author

Thanks Alocsin. I think they try to consider the children but don't have the funds to support the social consequences they render. Thanks for reading!


molometer profile image

molometer 4 years ago

Hello Tammy,

Well done for putting the fathers role in the spotlight.

The statistics are truly shocking and staggering at the same time.

We see the results of fatherless households every day in school.

Fathers should pay for their offspring.

Women that use their children as weapons, need to be taken aside and informed, of 'who' they are really damaging.

Great hub on a subject that does not get nearly enough attention.

Voted up useful interesting and SHARING


billybuc profile image

billybuc 4 years ago from Olympia, WA

Tammy my dear, you have done a marvelous job of presenting valid points about a difficult subject and keeping emotion out of it. I was in a similar situation twenty years ago; it worked out for the best when cooler heads prevailed, but at the time it was painful for me and my son. Thank you for an excellent hub!


AudreyHowitt profile image

AudreyHowitt 4 years ago from California

It is because of this very issue that many jurisdictions separate the issue of support from that of visitation. In the absence of abuse or neglect, the best interests of the child are served when the father is a part of the child's life regardless of support. It is so unfortunate when parents are so angry with other that the children suffer.


Millionaire Tips profile image

Millionaire Tips 4 years ago from USA

This is a very complex issue, and I agree that fathers should play a more active role in their child's life. It is good to read hubs like this that show that there are fathers who do try. The problem with tying child support payments to visitation is that if the father cannot afford to make a payment, does it now mean that he should not be granted visitation?

There are many single mothers, including me, that would have loved to have the father involved regularly in the child's life. By the way, that survey is skewed, asking about one incidence. It's a big leap to get from that survey that they don't understand a father's importance, or plan to never allow him visitation.


Pamela N Red profile image

Pamela N Red 4 years ago from Oklahoma

Men should have a right to see their children whether he pays any money or not unless he is abusive. Too many children grow up not knowing their own dad due to parents divorcing and not getting along.

People need to be mature enough to set aside their differences and let men be fathers. Yes, men should help pay to support their children but the kids shouldn't be pawns in the payment process.


tammyswallow profile image

tammyswallow 4 years ago from North Carolina Author

Thank you Molometer. This system is in great need of attention, funding, and research. I worked in a non profit Fatherhood program for many years. When I entered, I "assumed" that most of the fathers were "dead beats" sent by the court. Once you get into this field, you learn that the statistics are alarming and real. There are many broken men out there who face unheard obstacles in getting visitation and finding employment. I appreciate your comment.


tammyswallow profile image

tammyswallow 4 years ago from North Carolina Author

Billybuc,

I have much experience in this field. I have seen children BEG to be allowed to see their fathers and the mother dismisses their requests. I have seen grown men cry from the depths of their souls from missing their children. I think any one receiving child support should personally have to be educated on what it is to be spent on and how important it is to be civil as parents and the value of father visitation. Thank you for reading and leaving a comment.


tammyswallow profile image

tammyswallow 4 years ago from North Carolina Author

You are so right AudreyHowitt. So many things happen in the course of a lifetime. People loose jobs, get sick.. if a man doesn't pay his support he should still be able to see his child. The system needs to be revisited and the power given to a third party. Thanks for reading.


tammyswallow profile image

tammyswallow 4 years ago from North Carolina Author

Hi Millionaire Tips,

If the father wants to spend time with his child he should be able to whether or not he is current on his child support. If he isn't paying, he will most likely be in jail from non-payment. It is best for the child (in most situations absent of abuse.. etc.). The numbers in the survey show the mindset of single mothers. It demonstrates the idea that they don't realize the positive impact of the father's role in the child's life. It didn't specify if the mother's surveyed were non married or the ones that aren't receiving their child support. Thanks for reading!


tammyswallow profile image

tammyswallow 4 years ago from North Carolina Author

Well said Pamela N Red! Thanks for reading.


Nell Rose profile image

Nell Rose 4 years ago from England

Hi, tammy, I have often thought about this before, as I had a friend who would not let her ex see their child, in fact we had a bit of an argument about it. my attitude is whatever happened between the parents you should never let the child suffer by not seeing their father, that child belongs to both of them, equally, so this is so true, some people just don't realise how it will affect the child, if they thought ahead then maybe they will act differently, nell


BLACKANDGOLDJACK profile image

BLACKANDGOLDJACK 4 years ago from Blitzburgh area

I’ve been to at least a half dozen support hearings and I have very little respect for those who conduct those activities, which I will elaborate upon at some later date, given proper provocation.

I have only been to one custody/visitation hearing. Now, on this one, I got to say, the judge ruled. I mean, he rocked and ruled! This has nothing to do with my current situation whereby I have had custody of my teenage daughter for a couple of years.

This goes way back. I want to take the kids to my place. The ex-wife wants the visitation to only occur at her place. I file the legal papers. We both get lawyers. She plays the child abuse card. The judge calls both lawyers up to the bench. I never heard exactly what the accusations were, other than some vague stuff.

So the judge, rather than going back and forth on all this baloney, says I have to go to a shrink and be evaluated, and pay for it myself. Best $1,000 bucks I ever spent. The shrink gives me the Rorschach Test with the ink blots, and tells me to draw a man, and then draw a woman, and a bunch of other stupid stuff.

And lo and behold, a couple weeks later the shrink issues this report saying my personality type is the least likely to engage in improper acting out with minors, etc., etc. That’s the last I ever heard about child abuse. In fact, my ex went on some sort of religious retreat about a month after that for a week and asked me to take the kids.

If you have never been accused of child abuse, you have no idea what . . . you just have no idea.

But I try to see the humor in everything. Maybe I’ll tell some stories about what I do with that report from the shrink now. LOL.


FloraBreenRobison profile image

FloraBreenRobison 4 years ago

Here in Canada, fathers are required by law to pay support whether they are interested in seeing their children or not. Some fathers want to see their children and aren't allowed. Others have no interest at all. I've gone on record saying that my grandfather disowned his children from his first marriage. Mom would prefer I not talk about him at all, and I have no interest in him, but when I wrote about my grandmother raising 4 children on her own, people didn't realize just how "on her own" it really was and Mom finally had to say, well, she and her siblings had no choice but to work after school. He lived on the other side of the country and didn't acknowledge when either my aunt or my uncle died until mom called him. And he named his first son in both marriages after himself. This was all at a time when you simply did not get divorced in small towns.


tammyswallow profile image

tammyswallow 4 years ago from North Carolina Author

Thanks for visiting Nell. It is a sad situation and most of the time mothers end up telling these children that their father doesn't want to see them. It causes so much pain and abandoment issues for the children. Thanks for your considerate comment!


tammyswallow profile image

tammyswallow 4 years ago from North Carolina Author

You have been through the wringer! I am amazed you can retain your sense of humor. This system is broken and there is too much power given to the mother who is usually bitter and tired. No matter what your situation is, it is so important to keep a journal of every interaction, conversation, and occurance as a father so you can cover your own butt. It just isn't fair.

I once knew a woman who got an ugly divorce from her husband and he got joint custody. She did everything she could to keep father and 3 year old daughter apart. She moved four hours away thinking it would stop him from picking up his child on weekends. It didn't. One day he went to pick up his child and she accused this man of punching her in the face in broad daylight. After getting to know him, I knew he didn't. His visitation was suspended until he completed "anger management." Men in these situations should invest in a video camera and wear it during every visit with someone that acts like this.

You should really consider becoming a volunteer or an advocate in the fatherhood program nearest you. Your experience could help many men in your situation.


tammyswallow profile image

tammyswallow 4 years ago from North Carolina Author

Wow! Thanks for sharing that Flora. I can't imagine raising four kids alone in those times. That is one tough woman. I think so many dads nowadays are labeled dead beats because there are men out there who just up and leave and take no responsibility whatsoever for the children they make. Thanks for reading and leaving a thoughtful comment.


Lord De Cross profile image

Lord De Cross 4 years ago

I agree with you Tammy, and I admire Flora for sharing a very personal issue. We as men, shouldn't have to mimmick the past, but as history has shown, we will never learn.


BLACKANDGOLDJACK profile image

BLACKANDGOLDJACK 4 years ago from Blitzburgh area

Well, maybe I will become a “father’s advocate” in the future, Tammy. I am very interested in the issues you have raised, and I am impressed with your objectivity. Actually, I have served in that capacity “unofficially” at times, in addition to being a “foster father” to mostly teenage boys and girls. I may share some stories about all that soon.

Right now my focus is entirely on my daughter who is going to graduate from high school in June. With her sports and school activities and all that stuff. In fact, she is playing in a state playoff basketball game later today. It probably will be her last since they are playing a powerhouse and are a huge underdog. And too, we are finalizing her college plans.

But next year she’ll be off at college, so I guess I’ll need something to do besides fool around on HubPages. I won’t have all those basketball games, soccer matches, and proms to go to. She went to 3 proms last year and 3 the year before. I think she may try to set a new record this year. Oh, I don’t actually stay for the proms to make sure everything is on the up and up. I just go to take pictures before.

Just to put a little different perspective on all this. Last year my ex-wife lived in a different state far away. She only got to see our daughter twice in my daughter’s junior year of high school. Now this really tore up my ex-wife emotionally. I mean, she couldn’t stand it. Seriously, I think it was affecting her sanity. What little she had to begin with. My ex missed all the proms and games and everything else. That’s a year you can never get back. My point in relating this is that fathers who cannot see their children go through the same inner turmoil, although maybe they don’t show it as much as a mother does.


tammyswallow profile image

tammyswallow 4 years ago from North Carolina Author

True, true words Lord de Cross!


tammyswallow profile image

tammyswallow 4 years ago from North Carolina Author

As a mother, I can't imagine missing out on so many days in my daughter's life. It is quite sobering to just imagine what father's go through missing their children. It is sad also because it hurts the child and they tend to blame themselves for these things, especially when they are small.


Sueswan 4 years ago

Hi Tammy,

Being a parent is not only about providing financial support but love and emotional support. Fathers can't do this if they are not granted visitation rights.

Voted up and awesome.

Take care


tammyswallow profile image

tammyswallow 4 years ago from North Carolina Author

Thanks for reading and commenting Sueswan!


Dawn Conklin profile image

Dawn Conklin 4 years ago from New Jersey, USA

The numbers are alarming! I know there are problems like this, 2 people that are close to me are going through this at the moment. I didn't realize that there was this high of a percentage tho.

I know somebody who actually has a court agreement to see his child every other weekend and still has not seen his child in 4 years. His child support is paid every month on time and yet the mother always had a reason for him not to see his child. When they went in to court as she wanted to increase the child support, he told the court that she has not held up her end of any of the order (visitation, notifying of school stuff and other things), the court really didn't care-they only cared about the child support. It is a shame.

My ex husband and I have split custody of my older daughter. We alternate weeks and yes it was confusing at first, but I never try to take away his rights. We have had this agreement for years now. He doesn't pay support as we agreed mutually that it wouldn't be right since we split the time with her.

I don't agree with him on many things and I am not fond of many things, but I do not bad mouth him to my daughter nor do I deny her of her father.


BLACKANDGOLDJACK profile image

BLACKANDGOLDJACK 4 years ago from Blitzburgh area

Dawn, that’s the way it is my state, PA, regarding the support and custody being two separate issues. The bureaucracy that handles support doesn’t want to hear anything about custody/visitation. You have to go to the bureaucracy that handles custody/visitation to resolve that. Big mistake, in my opinion, that contributes to the problems that Tammy has outlined in this hub.

When you go to a support hearing, at least from my experience, the only thing they want to talk about is the formula. The formula that calculates the amount of support owed. They don’t go into how much money the child really needs for support. It’s all about the formula.

Now, you and your husband apparently worked out your support and custody issues yourselves. That’s the way it should be if we are going to talk about what’s best for the children. I mean, you didn’t need the courts to help you have the kids, did you?

As I mentioned previously in my comments, I have had custody of my daughter for a couple years and my ex-wife pays support. When she had custody, she would file for a support hearing frequently, knowing I was getting raises and promotions. She never said anything to me about needing more money for this or that. She just filed because she knew she would get more money, based on the formula. Yes, the formula.

What these bureaucracies that handle support and custody need to find is a formula that encourages rather than discourages the father from participating in the child’s life.

So how did I get custody and support? Not via some court. I don’t want courts meddling in my family’s life.

I’m not going to say the courts are never necessary to resolve these issues, but they should be avoided if at all possible. And who is paying for all these court hearings and bureaucracies that handle these matters? Right, we the taxpayers.


tammyswallow profile image

tammyswallow 4 years ago from North Carolina Author

Thanks for sharing your story Dawn. You are a big person and considering what is best for your daughter. It is a shame that not everyone can do that. I appreciate you taking the time to read and comment.


Happyboomernurse profile image

Happyboomernurse 4 years ago from South Carolina

This is an excellent hub and one can see by the many comments that it's a difficult topic for both mothers and fathers.

In an ideal world the kids' needs to have a relationship with both parents would be given top priority by both the parents but in reality this rarely happens.

Also, the court system does need revisions as it's too frustrating, complicated and expensive for most to navigate.

Thanks for writing a well balanced and well written article on this issue.

Voted up and useful.


tammyswallow profile image

tammyswallow 4 years ago from North Carolina Author

Thanks for reading and leaving such a thoughtful comment Happyboomernurse!


sam209 profile image

sam209 4 years ago

This is certainly my hub of the day Tammy! I grew up with a single mother so I can definitely relate! Even today me and dad don't have a close relationship, but I have much love for him! Great piece! Sharing this one on all my social networking sites! Very touching video!


tammyswallow profile image

tammyswallow 4 years ago from North Carolina Author

Thank you so much for reading and commenting Sam! Thank you for your warm comment.


sam209 profile image

sam209 4 years ago

De nada! This was an excellent piece!


FloraBreenRobison profile image

FloraBreenRobison 4 years ago

This was included in the archived version of the weekly newsletter as a recommended hub -you can see this version of the newsletter through the blog. Congratulations.


tammyswallow profile image

tammyswallow 4 years ago from North Carolina Author

Thanks for letting me know that FloraBreenRobison. I would not have ever seen that!


Dawn Conklin profile image

Dawn Conklin 4 years ago from New Jersey, USA

I always enjoy reading your hubs :) I try my best to do what is right for her, he is her father and she loves him. I wish everybody thought that way. Never understood why people can be so bitter toward each other that they hurt their child in the process. I am not the perfect parent, but I do try to do what is best for my kids.

Congrats for being the recommended hub!


tammyswallow profile image

tammyswallow 4 years ago from North Carolina Author

Thanks Dawn. I had no idea until another hubber told me. It is a shame that people get so angry that they do things to cause pain to their children. You are a bigger person and I am glad. Thanks so much for dropping by.


marcorichard 4 years ago

Everyone's missing the real problem with this mess we have created. The courts have precedence this problem, which has resulted with around 75% of women filing for devoice and custody, why? because they benefit the most!!!! EVEN above their very own children and lastly the fathers of their children. The ONLY!!!!! solution to this mess is for every state legislature to mandate the courts change the Default orders in these civil cases... And that default is; dual custody with NO, I repeat NO monetary support orders whatsoever $6 going in with these civil filings and only by proof of neglect or child abuse should there be any deviated court finding. And I'm talking the court ORDERS a current non-participating Father to Jointly assume custody and guardianship of their children. The result will be as follows

First, THE CHILDREN WILL BENEFIT!!!!!!!

Second; divorce & custody filings will plummet

third, fathers will not be improvised, will be ordered and willingly step up and be involved in equally half of the guardianship duties.

fourth, State child custody bureaucracy needs will be reduced

This will take away the incentive to file because of the "I get the children and your money" mentality. Which has resulted in WOMEN filing two thirds of the divorce / custody civil cases in this country.

AND BELIEVE, you take away the greed & incentive factor, parents will step up and naturally do what's best for their children. Take away the urge to divorce in the first place & result in restoring more nuclear family environments in our culture. Maybe even increase the institution of marriage. At least it will reverse this horrible trend we have created in our sociality for our children.


tammyswallow profile image

tammyswallow 4 years ago from North Carolina Author

Thanks for visiting and sharing your passion for this subject so eloquently marcorichard.I understand what you are saying. I am a firm believer that fathers play a very important part in their children's lives and I think there are many cases when the father is probabaly better suited to get custody of a child and that doesn't happen as often as it should because the courts overestimate the "motherly bond" in these cases.

I also agree that there are mothers in this country that have children for the sole purpose of "getting a check.." and they use their children as a way to get supported by the father or by the government. I agree that the system is seriously flawed and does not always serve the best needs of the children.

Your idea is pretty brilliant to set this as the "default" system as long as the court will still evaluate the needs of the children case by case. With women making so much less in salary than men for the same jobs, the arrangement may be a little lopsided.

As a person who initiated a divorce to become a single parent of three teen boys, I can assure you my own arrangement wasn't driven by greed. It wasn't an urge, but a necessity to get a divorce for reasons I won't divulge here. In defense of single moms, I will tell you that getting a divorce and the state minimum amount for child support in no way made us weatlhy, or even financially comfortable. It was a major struggle to get by even when I worked two jobs. I am sure there are people who may abuse their child support and not use it appropriatley for the children, but I think it is a huge leap to assume that all the women that initiate divorce are trying to make money. Interesting discussion!


Girl 4 years ago

I am just wondering why if these men were "good"

Enough to make a baby with, that you all do not find them good enough to father the children. You must have thought higher of them when you were having sex with them.


tammyswallow profile image

tammyswallow 4 years ago from North Carolina Author

That is a good point Girl.


great 4 years ago

great


Rebeca 4 years ago

As a single mom I never tried to neglect the father of my kids his rights to see them, but he never took the opportunity to visit them, I'm not complaining but now my son is going thru kind of the same situation. His girlfriend got pregnant and she already had the baby. We tried to go visit and tried to help with anything the baby needed. But like they are young (16) the girl's mom was so upset that in the beginng she wouldn't let us see the baby, after so much of insisting of us she finally let me visit not my son. She didn't want my son to visit. So my son has only seen the baby a few times that after asking several times if I can take the baby for a while, she let me take him. That's the only time my son can see his baby. I filed the child support papers for my son but they don't want anything to do with my son being involved with his baby. When we found out about the baby he got a job and started buying things for the baby. They accepted all the things like crib, diapers, clothes and other baby supplies. But whenever it comes to him trying to see the baby they always make up an excuse or that they are not home. Another thing she wants him to give up his rights for the baby. So we don't know what else to do because my son is trying to stand up and be there for the baby but they don't want him to be there. Are they able to take his rights away if she doesn't want him involved?


tammyswallow profile image

tammyswallow 4 years ago from North Carolina Author

No, they can't take his rights. When his baby was born, if he signed an acknowledgement of paternity he should have rights. Sadly, men don't get any assistance with court fees when it comes to legally pursing visitation. If he didn't sign the acknowledgement, he can request a paternity test, especially if she is pursing child support and he can sign the acknowledgement of paternity Make sure he keeps a journal of every interaction he has with the child's mother and all the times he makes an effort in seeing the child and the result. This will go a long way with the court when he does petition for visitation. I am sorry he has to go through that but he does have rights too!


HoneyBB profile image

HoneyBB 4 years ago from Illinois

This is an excellent hub and great information for fathers and mothers alike to understand the importance that both parents have in being a part of their child or children's lives. As a mother who doesn't receive child support, I have still never denied my ex access to his son. I only wish he wanted it. I know how much my son could benefit by feeling his love for him. I think when a parent has children, it all becomes about the children, no matter what you have to sacrifice. I wish he felt the same way. When he was out of work when my son was little I asked him to take care of him and he asked me how much I was going to pay him. I actually almost paid him to watch his own son while he wasn't give me child support but then I thought, "Is this really the type of person I want my son around?" Still, I will willing to let him spend time with him but he didn't want to. I hope this helps get more fathers involved in their childrens lives.


tammyswallow profile image

tammyswallow 4 years ago from North Carolina Author

That is a very sad situation HoneyBB. That is the definition of a real deadbeat parent. Those types of stories break my heart. I hope things get better for you and your son. Thanks for reading and commenting.


a dad 4 years ago

wow...an article actually worth reading! Great job...seriously!!!


A Dad 4 years ago

I never leave comments...seriously, this is the first time ever...so the fact that I am leaving 2 comments should be taken as an extreme compliments Tammy.

There are so many faces to this issue, and to be blunt, most of those faces deserve a good old fashioned back hand to the jaw. From men who do not support their kids, to women who want so much in child support that it goes far beyond the cost of supporting the child, to parents using their children against each other, to parents (even the ones that are still together) providing the physical/financial needs of their children but not the 'parenting' needs of their children.

I could go on for quite awhile but I will digress and bring up one additional point of observation and opinion.....kids need responsibilities and chores as well as getting outdoors, work is not enslavement, it is necessary for a well adjusted human. I realize most people nowadays do not live on a farm, but parents need to find jobs for their children/teenagers to do....grow a garden, if you have grass, you have space for a graden. Take them hunting or fishing, if you are a lefty and think that guns are evil and animals are not for consumption, then take the kids hiking or canoeing or just for a damned walk! On thing that is greatly missing nowadays is....I don't even know a phrase for it....but the ability for coming of age teenagers to spend enough quiet one on one time with their parents as to be able to get the courage and segue way into meaning of life conversations. I think every coming of age type conversation I ever had with my Dad was during a time consuming quiet activity...hunting, chopping firewood, killing/butchering rabbits/chickens, working on an old truck....it might seem trivial, but when do you think teenagers are going to "talk to you" about the important things in life...drugs/sex/peer pressure/bullying/etc/etc? At the dinner table in front of people? At the movies? during the 15 minutes on the way to school or wherever? No..teenagers need afternoons of time to "talk to you" sometimes about somethings that are crucial.

Anyway, I ranted way more than enough.....thanks for the great article Tammy


tammyswallow profile image

tammyswallow 4 years ago from North Carolina Author

You make some excellent points here Dad. It is a sad state of affairs in our country. Now with the internet and phones, it is so hard to get a child's attention. I really agree with you. All parents should give their kid that one on one time. Thanks so much for stopping by and sharing your thoughts.


debrarae79 profile image

debrarae79 4 years ago from NEWARK,OHIO

I love this article! I feel as tho you make some great points here. Fathers should help support the child, (children). But at the same time they should talk about visitation with the father in every case concerning child support. "Married or not". It's like saying,"we can take time and take your money", but we cannot help you with making sure, you have relationship with your child. This is where that old saying comes into effect, " good old common sense", when it comes to child support orders, hell the law in general as far as im concerned.


tammyswallow profile image

tammyswallow 4 years ago from North Carolina Author

Thanks so much for your kind comment debrarae79. I think it ALL goes back to the children. It is best for children (in most cases) to have a father in their life. Courts should make it as painless for fathers to get visitation as they do for mothers to get child support.


debrarae79 profile image

debrarae79 4 years ago from NEWARK,OHIO

I so agree with that!


jose 3 years ago

my wife's ex husband pays child support for his disabled daughter, we have full custody as he moved to another State and non wanting to deal with the dissbaility, time off, etc. he has not seeing her in over 14 months and has not make any plans, in the mean time , my wife can't work, can't have time off, we can't do anything. what happens is we deicde to take her to her dad wihotu him knowing, i think he need to step up. he is too busy working and planning yearly vacation for himself and we have no time off, please help. jdv8a@yahoo.com


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 3 years ago from Beautiful Upstate New York

I am shocked that I missed this hub somehow, because it is a subject very near and dear to my heart. I feel very strongly on these issues.

NO ONE, whether one parent, a new spouse in the picture, or any member of a child's family, should consider keeping a child from his/her right and NEED to interact with their father. The only exceptions, of course would be unfortunate cases of abuse or neglect.

If a Dad is unemployed for reasons beyond his control, this causes a problem, I'm sure....but this is NOT reason to deny a Dad his privilege to see his child(ren)

Divorce is difficult enough on everyone....especially kids. How could anyone be cruel enough to make it worse and have this child miss their Dad?

I think I'll stop now, because this issue gets me riled!....Great HUB, Tammy!!...........UP+++


Sanxuary 3 years ago

This is with-out question one of the biggest battles coming in the future. Men have no rights when it comes to their children and it should not require huge amounts of money in legal fees to have this right. After tapping you out on child support and every provision in order to see your children, what is the point? You should be entitled to half just like her. You should not even have to deal with her just for protection. A simple agreement to meet accommodation should be all that’s needed. I warn all men that getting married is nothing but slavery. They are entitled to take you for everything you ever had and send you a bill as well. There is no incentive to be married if you our rich. Then again there is no incentive to be married at all.


sgbrown profile image

sgbrown 3 years ago from Southern Oklahoma

Our daughter is currently going through a legal separation, which I am sure will follow with a divorce. In this case, it is a good thing. Her husband has never been a responsible husband or father. He is afraid that we will try to keep him from seeing his daughter. He is so wrong! Even though he is not the "best father in the world", he is still her daddy and I would never try to keep him from seeing her. It is so important for children to have both parents in their life. He is trying to get out of paying child support, but that is a whole other story. I agree that fathers, legally married to the mother or not, should have the right to visitation. Great hub! Voting up and more. :)


tammyswallow profile image

tammyswallow 3 years ago from North Carolina Author

Wow Sgbrown! I am sorry your family is going through all of this, but it sounds like you guys are centered on the best needs of the child which is a great thing. That is a great example.


TAMMY 3 years ago

WHAT A JOKE, JUST BECAUSE A MAN PAYS CHILD SUPPORT, DOESN'T MAKE HIM A FATHER. UNFORTUNATELY SOME CHILDREN ARE BETTER OFF BEING RAISED BY SINGLE MOTHERS, AND MANY OF THEM TURN OUT GREAT. TODAY MENS RIGHTS ARE BEING EMPHASIZED WHILE MOTHERS' RIGHTS ARE BEING IGNORED. WHAT A SHAME SINCE WE'VE COME SO FAR IN THE FIGHT FOR THE RIGHTS OF WOMEN.

A lot OF MEN ARE GREAT FATHERS AND A lot OF THEM ARE NOT. THE LOOK AT CHILD SUPPORT AS A CLAIM OF PROPERTY OVER THEIR CHILDREN. MOST LIKELY, IF MEN HAD THE CHOICE TO GIVE UP PAYING SUPPORT IN RETURN FOR NOT SEEING THEIR CHILDREN THEY PROBABLY WOULD. AND MOST OF THE TIME THEY COMPLAIN ABOUT HOW MUCH THEY HAVE TO PAY. WELL THEY MAKE MORE THAN WOMEN TO BEGIN WITH AND THEY SHOULD HAVE THOUGHT ABOUT THAT BEFORE THEY CRAWLED IN BED.

MEN, YOU WANT TO SEE YOUR CHILDREN, THEN TREAT THEIR MOTHERS RIGHT, AND THOSE WOMEN WHO MISUSE THE SITUATION THAN SHAME ON YOU FOR MAKING THE REST OF US MOTHERS LOOK BAD. BUT MEN ARE NOT EQUAL TO MOTHERS, THAT'S A FACT.

AND FOR THOSE MEN WANTING TO ASSERT THEIR "RIGHTS" OF CUSTODY BECAUSE THEY PAY SUPPORT, BIG WHOOP! YOU PROBABLY SPEND MORE AT THE BAR AND STRIP CLUB AND ON YOUR GIRLFRIEND THAN YOU DO ON CHILD SUPPORT.

SADLY THIS COUNTRY WANTS TO GIVE EQUALITY TO A SECTOR OF ISSUES THAT SHOULD NOT EVEN BE A PART OF GOVERNMENT. FAMILY ISSUES SHOULD REMAIN WITH THE FAMILY AND THE COURTS SHOULD KEEP THEIR NOSES OUT AND PEOPLE WHO HAVEN'T EXPERIENCED SHOULD MIND THEIR BUSINESS TOO. IF YOU'RE LOOKING FOR A "RIGHTS" ISSUE TO SUPPORT, LOOK TO THE DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE. I AM A MOTHER AND I REGRET WORRYING ABOUT THE "POOR" FATHER, WHO STOMPED ALL OVER ME WHEN HE GOT THE FIRST CHANCE.


Shawn 3 years ago

Not too long ago a man having a wife and child was a treasure to him. Statistically in today's age its an insane risk. What will women do when the majority of men decide that it's no longer worth the risk?


debrarae79 profile image

debrarae79 3 years ago from NEWARK,OHIO

Shawn, men are currently deciding that it is not worth the risk. Presently, I know of a couple of situations where men just stay with the woman they have children with, just to avoid child support and to be able to avoid bad situations as well. I suggest both men and women should decide with caution of course, rather or not they are marrying or having a child/ children by the right person. Such as sharing the same thoughts and ideas involving life and children.


James E. profile image

James E. 3 years ago from Seattle, WA

Tammy, it is to easy to assume all issues related to this subject is exactly your over-generalized story. I am a father who served my country and have an ex-wife who lives in a separate state. She has not even dared to get a job and is relying on my child support and the State welfare system to manage her monthly bills for over 7yrs now. I have done nothing to have her keep my children in the dark, estranging me from them...simply because she is their mother?

Point is, everyone has specifics to their story and to summarize everything under your situation is simply ranting. I appreciated this article and I thank you Tammyswallow. My retort is against the comment with complete capitalization and little consideration for anybody except herself. And for those inquiring minds, Tammy (capitalization poster) is not my EX.


Dawn 3 years ago

I have now been on both sides of this. I am divorced with a child from that marriage. It never crossed my mind to keep my son from his father money or not. I thank the good lord that I made the decision I made one for choosing a man that has always been a part of his sons life and that he and I never put money before the best interest of our son. He was 12 when we split and it was always up to him where he wanted to stay from night to night. We never made him feel like he had to choose. We never had a good guy or bad guy. And he is now grown, married and in the Army. His dad and I are great friends to this day. Now for the bad side. I am remarried to a wonderful man and father to two boys. We have spent over 15,000 in attorneys fee. And this is what we have got from that.... A bitter woman that only wants money!!!She does everything in her power to keep the boys from him. She had them spy on us when we do have them. His oldest will be 18 in December got a truck at 16 and can drive anywhere except to see his dad. She has convinced the youngest that his dad and I could careless about him because we can't go to watch him play football every week. My husband has a rotating work schedule so if he has a game and my husband has to work she thinks he should make a way to be there anyway. His youngest son has a disability and his comprehension is way below his age. So he doesn't understand his dad must work. But she doesn't tell him that. Now about money money money. She went on Short term disability at work for many different things last year. I don't disagree the woman has issues, but some of the things she was out of work for was to make it look like she wasn't working full time. Seemed she was fine until she got a court date then she would be out of work for the month to show she had no income. But she has insurance that paid her through them but didn't bring that proof of income in to show her earnings. So my husband pays 2/3of his monthly income to her. She also lives with her parents because while my husband made the house payment she took him to court and wanted to money and said she would pay the payment herself. And made one payment moved in with her parents never told anyone until we got a letter that it was being foreclosed on. We took her to court and even though my husband had made the payments to her the judge told him to find a way to get it out. The judge then looked at her and said I understand you needed the money hell hath no fury on a woman scorned. And ordered him to continue to pay her the same amount he was even though she had no bills. My son sees this and has thanked his dad and I for never putting him through what his stepbrothers have to go through. It should be a crime child abuse for one for how she does those two wonderful boys and should not have custody of these boys if she can't take care of them without 2/3 of my husband's income. That alone should show a judge which parent is more capable of having these kids and we don't need money from her. I don't think a judge that has never laid eyes on his kids to make the choose of who these kids should live with. We as parents didn't ask them if we should give birth to these kids why should we need permission to raise them. She keeps them for the money. Not to mention she had medicaid on them and my husband has them on medical insurance so she don't have to pay deductible or co pays. If the system would stay out of it parents couldn't do this. We need equal parenting no money exchanged both parents take care of our kids like we had to do when the parents were married.


x factor 3 years ago

No one can never see it coming till finally you have seen it all,my family my close friends have gone through the worse. So is it really what they see as "in there best interest for the children" ? If you really sit back and analyze every corner of that phrase, A light bulb just might go off. These children are simply being used in this process creating a downward spiral for generations to come. Women need to understand...one size doesn't fit all. These laws should be re-evaluated with a "spot light" on this matter...it over all destroys society. This is why I will never, ever,ever have children, at least not with an american woman


Kaitlyn 2 years ago

Paying child support should not ever automatically grant visitations, for one reason is in most states a father has to pay child support regardless of rights because he helped create that child. I say this coming from a single mother myself. My son is almost four and has never met his father, due to my exs own self. He became a drug addict and has multiple records of assault and domestic violence. None are against me, but still. Its enough to worry a mother. Especially when his own parents fear him.

Should he be granted visitation rights because he pays child support once or twice? Hell no! And all parents, father or mother should be required to pay support to the custodial parent, regardless of visits being allowed or not.


Sanxuary 2 years ago

There is no doubt that this system is a failure beyond belief. Every male in my family has been through this nightmare. Trapped in a game of legal harassment, unrealistic child support payments and a kid who only gets destroyed by the system. None of its worth it and its better to just let the kid go then to play games with his self centered parent who only wants to rob you of anything they can get parent. Just make a chest and put Christmas and birthdays in a box and hope he or she shows up one day. One day you will have to tell the child the truth and they will probably hate the other parent for a while. The dumbest thing a man can do is get some chick pregnant. Even marriage is hardly worth it anymore. Should a parent have a right to see their child absolutely. Unfortunately the court systems serve only to bankrupt you and provide one of the parties to legally harass you. You can only win if both parties care more about the child then some game of self indulgence. The kids eventually figure it out.


Richardwilliamsjr profile image

Richardwilliamsjr 2 years ago from Millville

Tammy thank you for writing and offering such valuable and useful information for men around the world that have to deal with these matters. I personally I have had to deal with this issue after my first marriage. And I wish I had access to the information and resources you offered in this article today thanks again.


Lillian 2 years ago

My son has been paying child support for years My husband and i helped him with a lawyer to get 2 of his kids removed from child support 22 and 23 He lost his job a few yrs ago owed 36,000 now only 19,000 Courts gave him amount to pay which includes back support but she wants him in jail because she wants the 19,000 We think she wants us to come up with it Were retired and we can't Hes paying on the 3rd daughter who will be 18 and also back support doesn't she see putting him in jail she gets nothing and when he gets out he will never catch up What greed We don't see those kids They were brainwashed into hating this side of family Laws not fair


Michael l Green 22 months ago

I think it's pretty pathetic that a court system allows a woman to use the kids as a weapon what does that say about a woman's mind set and mental stability the court is pretty pathetic

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