Allowing The Mosque At Ground Zero. To allow and build or not?

America Home Of The Free

Ground Zero

Mosque On Ground Zero?

Right now the great debate of whether or not to build a Mosque at ground zero continues. Well the first thing I will have to clear up with this whole debate, is the fact that the Mosque is "not on ground zero". Rather, it is a far two New York City blocks from the trade centers. If you have ever been to New York you know this is quite a distance. Just as importantly is the fact that in America we have the "Separation of Church & State". This is one of those issues where it is a sad day as it has even become an issue. We in America take so much pride in our constitution; and a major part of that constitution is the separation of church and state. While I acknowledge that "conservatives" bring into government a Christian perspective. I also find it rather dangerous that "conservative Christians" are even allowed in our government. However allowing lobbyist is no better. We constantly allow things into our government in which have the brutal potential in over turning it. Now I happen to be a Christian, as well I am a reader of the Qur'an and consider myself a Muslim. I believe in uniting religion as Jesus taught to relent to all things in which divide us. No one is wrong, and no one is totally right. I understand that each religion carries a vital piece of the human puzzle. As the Bible even states that mankind was divided during the building of the Tower of Babel. How ironic I have come to a tower. That was unintentional but very interesting, as here is something else that is now dividing people.

Mosque

Why To Allow Mosque Near Ground Zero

We need to allow this Mosque for many reasons. We need to allow this Mosque to show the terrorist they have not won. We need to allow this Mosque to show the world America is the melting pot for all religions to come and be free. We need to allow this Mosque to show the world we can overcome our differences. We need to allow this Mosque to show other Muslims around the world, we accept them with open arms, and "do not hold the religion responsible for that fateful day". We need to allow this Mosque because Muslims died on 911 as well, a fact I think people forget! We need to allow this Mosque because like I said to show the terrorist they have not won, we are still the land of the free, and the home of the brave. We need to allow this Mosque to show we support our fellow Americans. Perhaps the most important reason why we need to allow this Mosque is to show the world we are not vengeful. We are a loving Nation and can lead the way to a world of understanding and compassion for all mankind.

Support The Victims Of 911 Show Your Support Today. It is never too late!

Fear Mongering & The Mosque Near Ground Zero

The fear mongering about this Mosque has showed the total lack of competence by the media who has made this an issue in the first place. The man who brought this issue out and claimed that this Mosque was going to be built on ground zero is a propaganda genius. If I could imagine a man who would spread such a fear I would imagine this man a terrorist. We can be sure it has come from the conservative right. As right now not all, but some of the conservative right is a fear mongering uncordial base. A base of people who are so judgmental it is really hard to conceive. For the people who have not lost people during that fateful day, and are rallying against this Mosque I would beg your to reconsider. This Mosque is not on top of ground zero. This Mosque is 2 blocks away. The only thing we have to gain with allowing this Mosque to be built near ground zero is to turn the hearts of the Al Qaeda terrorist on the edge. When they see this they will have a new vision of what America stands for. The only thing that the building of a Mosque near ground zero can do at this point is to help America be more safe and secure as a world leader. As the fringe Muslims around the world will see we do not hold the religion responsible. We will show them that we act in a way that the book they read in the Qur'an holds true to America. Not the extremist views in which they have been so brainwashed to believe. But the teachings of a compassionate Mohammad. Right now Muslim children and teenagers are watching this chaos emerging and thinking America cannot do it. They are thinking America is weak, Americans are greedy uncompassionate hypocrites. They claim constitutional laws, however they go against their own constitutional beliefs. If we go back on our constitution how can we really blame the propaganda in which they see. As we create the propaganda in which the terrorist are promoting and watching when deciding to unite against the evil hypocritical Empire of America. It is time for America to step up and show the world we will allow this Mosque near ground zero. To show the man who made the issue out of this in the first place that we as Americans are better than that. We are not going to fall for that trick, not this time. Muslims died on that fateful day as well, so who are we to fight against religious freedom here in America. Well today Mayor Bloomberg of New York City came out with a fantastic speech. I could not have said it better myself. Just beautiful he hit the nail on the head with that speech, I will post the video below.

Bloomberg Great Speech On Mosque "Near" Ground Zero!

What Do You Think?

Do You Think We Should Allow A Mosque Near Ground Zero?

See results without voting

Glenn Beck Supports Muslim Mosque At Ground Zero?

More by this Author


Comments 100 comments

worldgrandeur profile image

worldgrandeur 6 years ago from The Moon

So, you want to punish all the muslim world ( 1.5 billion persons) because of some fanatic muslims????????????? Wow, how tolerant is that buddy???? You said America is the land of freedom and still you want to confiscate freedom from others! You really should reconsider your thoughts and ideas and clean your ego from this crappy saddism and racism.


Chasuk 6 years ago

@worldgrandeur: Who is your comment addressing?


worldgrandeur profile image

worldgrandeur 6 years ago from The Moon

I highly respect the writer views and my comment is a cry at those fanatic people (whether christians or muslims) who want to wipe each other off. My comment is addressing everyone who believes that his religion, sect, clan...etc is superior. After all, we all come from Adam and there should be no feud amongst us over some racist people. Thanks.


HSchneider 6 years ago from Parsippany, New Jersey

I completely agree Steve. I understand the queasiness that some people feel about it. I worked in the World Trade Center for the first 18 years of my professional life. I was there and shook by the first bombing in 1993. But as long as this is a place of worship and bringing people together as it seems to be, then there's nothing wrong with it. I lost 7 friends in the 9/11 attacks but those were terrorists. To paint all muslims as terrorists is ignorant. I agree we must rise above this and not let the terrorists win. Freedom of religion should not be conquered. Great Hub.


steve8miller profile image

steve8miller 6 years ago from Ohio Great City of Dayton Author

Thank you all, I think the poll says a lot as well. As it is 3 to 1 for allow the Mosque to be built near ground zero. Thank you HSchneider as you can give perhaps the greatest insight to this issue of anyone else. As you worked there, and on 911 you had friends in which you lost. Which I am sorry to hear. I thank you for your great insight, and I feel a lot better about this hub now. I am glad America is getting away for the intolerance and ignorance that got the media all fired up as not to build a Mosque "on" ground zero. I am glad to see the majority of Americans are rational and check the facts before they judge. Thanks all who commented.


steve8miller profile image

steve8miller 6 years ago from Ohio Great City of Dayton Author

Thanks all great comments here. I am waiting for a guy named AmericanTiger. He has been harassing me here on hubpages. So I am waiting for you Tiger. Be warned every word from the Tigers mouth is jealous slander. Mr. Tiger first came into my life here on Hubpages when he stated that he wanted to "Beat my wife, and rape my daughter" As you see I have a picture of my daughter here on my comment post.

So Tiger went way to far, he is a sick twisted soul. Steer clear from the Tiger. He is a radical extremist, and admitted that our troops need not be supported. Because our liberal president sent them to fight, and they followed the orders. So take it out on your local GI's spit in their faces he states. Having served I find what he said brutally appalling. Thanks all good luck and GOD bless.


steve8miller profile image

steve8miller 6 years ago from Ohio Great City of Dayton Author

Make Sure To Vote In The Poll Above. It Takes 1 Second.


Lady_E profile image

Lady_E 6 years ago from London, UK

Snap. lol

So you've already written a Hub about it. Thanks for visiting mine. I'm glad I read this, different views are shared and a bigger picture is seen.

I guess on a positive note - if it is built, America is guaranteed no more Terrorist Attacks in that area....

Well, I live in UK - so God's will be done. :)


Faybe Bay profile image

Faybe Bay 6 years ago from Florida

This is truly a great piece of work for those expressing concern, when the Mosque isn't even being built at Ground Zero. Glad you did the research for everyone who is concerned.


steve8miller profile image

steve8miller 6 years ago from Ohio Great City of Dayton Author

Thanks Mr. Fox great picture I love the Fox. Anyway thank you very much. The point that it is not on ground zero has somehow been overlooked by the media as of late. Every headline is "The Mosque On Ground Zero" I remember when I named this hub, I was going to name it "the mosque near ground zero" However because of the misinformation I knew I had to name it what I did. Thanks again to all.


leeroy 6 years ago

maybe the mosque will be knocked down the way the wtc was


steve8miller profile image

steve8miller 6 years ago from Ohio Great City of Dayton Author

Waiting for someone to comment to Leeroy, I am not going to dignify that with a response. Perhaps homeland security is monitoring leeroy.


steve8miller profile image

steve8miller 6 years ago from Ohio Great City of Dayton Author

Well according to the poll America is split. How no one will stand up to people like Leeroy will end up biting us in the butt. For this I guarantee. It is not a Mosque it is a recreation center for children. Remember Timothy Mcveigh was a Christian, we are not holding Christianity responsible are we. Or white people responsible. Not until colored Muslims are allowed to attack us by white people like Bush do people get all rowed up. I am getting fed up with how people are acting about this so called Mosque. To me it looks like humanity is devolving right now.


magnoliazz profile image

magnoliazz 6 years ago from Wisconsin

911 changed everything in America.

A mosque in that area is just asking for trouble, big trouble. It would be like rubbing salt into the wound.

Muslims do not believe in religious freedom, period. You would not be able to build a Christain church in a Muslim country, in fact,you would be killed for it....no questions asked! Maybe we should learn from that. At least they are consistant.

America has been too lax and too open for too long. And, we do not have to prove anything to anyone. Everyone knows this is the most open country in the world, but sometimes enough is enough.

They are welcome to build their mosque anywhere else but THERE, why is that not good enough? I think they are just asking for big trouble and this not an innocent act in any way. Indeed, that branch of Islam believes in jihad, and we all know what that means.

I guess my Nazi genes are showing, but I say, they will rue the day they built a mosque within 10 miles of ground zero!

And, you Steve need to s--t or get off the pot. You are cannot be both a Christain and a Muslim!


American Tiger 6 years ago

I'll start with the "jealous slander" portion of my comments, and remind stevie8steve that when you say lies about someone in writing, it's Libel, and actionable. Did you ever get ahold of Vice Admiral Coogan?

Magnoliazz makes a few very telling points. In countries where Islam is the dominant culture, the Gospel of Jesus Christ is heresy, and will get you killed if you're caught spreading it. No lengthy trial, no defense attorneys, no Bibles in your jail cell while awaiting your fate. Just a swift and brutal death.

Wait... Unless you're a woman who is easy on the eyes. THEN you get to suffer the "punishment" of repeated gang rape (unless the Emam wants you all for himself for a while) before your brutal death.

Tell ya what, stevie8steve. How about you go prove how wrong I am. Fly your little self over to ANY Caliphate or Sheikdom, stroll into the nearest "Cultural Center slash Mosque" representing the vast peaceful masses of the Religion O Peace, and declare yourself both a Christian, AND a Muslim. I wouldn't be surprised if they feature you in their next VIDEO!


steve8miller profile image

steve8miller 6 years ago from Ohio Great City of Dayton Author

Again Tiger you ridicule me for having compassion for other religions. I will tell you, yes I am a Muslim. I am a Christian, I am Hindu, I am a follower of GOD. I have an understanding of GOD that people like you cannot attain. You will fail because you ignore the men who gave the wisdom. Like Jesus Christ himself. Jesus has no problem with any man who holds GOD first. No matter what religion they happen to fall into. I will continue to pray for you, that one day you find the truth.

The mindset that one religion is wrong and the other is right, is the same mentality that says one skin color is wrong and the other is right. Can one really help where they are born? If I was born in a Christian dominant culture and the Muslims are right do I go to hell. Or if I was born in a Muslim dominant culture will I go to hell for not being a Christian? I will tell you read the Bible. As the Bible states that any man who lives good and does good by his or her neighbor will not be rejected in the Kingdom of heaven. Again I will say it does not matter what others will do to you for building a Mosque or Church. It matters what is in your heart. If in your heart you hold contempt for another then you will never experience the splendor of heaven. For the Bible states "Very few will make it" This is the reason why, you all judge your fellow human beings. If I am smoking something then it comes from Christ. As I heed the words literally, not as I see fit. Like most people. So again judge, hate, and ridicule. For your beliefs are shallow. My knowledge is all that I need. What ever happened to the question "What would Jesus do" Oh I forgot that was just a fad. A conservative fad. Again good luck and GOD bless.


magnoliazz profile image

magnoliazz 6 years ago from Wisconsin

Steve, just be honest, how much dope are you smoking a day?

I agree with Tiger, go over to a Muslim country and ask them " What would Jesus do?" and see how that works for you!

With all your messages of peace and love you forgot all about how Muslim women are treated, worse than dogs!

Read This!

These are troubling times. This was written by a woman born in Egypt as a Muslim. This is not heresy, and it will scare you. Make sure you read the paragraph (in red) towards the end.

Joys of Muslim Women by Nonie Darwish

In the Muslim faith a Muslim man can marry a child as young as 1 year old and have sexual intimacy with this child, consummating the marriage by 9. The dowry is given to the family in exchange for the woman (who becomes his slave) and for the purchase of the private parts of the woman, to use her as a toy.

Even though a woman is abused, she can not obtain a divorce. To prove rape, the woman must have (4) male witnesses. Often after a woman has been raped, she is returned to her family and the family must return the dowry. The family has the right to execute her (an honor killing) to restore the honor of the family. Husbands can beat their wives 'at will' and the man does not have to say why he has beaten her. The husband is permitted to have 4 wives and a temporary wife for an hour (prostitute) at his discretion.

The Shariah Muslim law controls the private as well as the public life of the woman. In the Western World (America) Muslim men are starting to demand Shariah Law so the wife can not obtain a divorce and he can have full and complete control of her. It is amazing and alarming how many of our sisters and daughters attending American Universities are now marrying Muslim men and submitting themselves and their children unsuspectingly to the Shariah law. By passing this on, enlightened American women may avoid becoming a slave under Shariah Law. Ripping the West in Two.

Author and lecturer Nonie Darwish says the goal of radical Islamists is to impose Shariah law on the world, ripping Western law and liberty in two. She recently authored the book, Cruel and Usual Punishment: The Terrifying Global Implications of Islamic Law.

Darwish was born in Cairo and spent her childhood in Egypt and Gaza before immigrating to America in 1978, when she was eight years old. Her father died while leading covert attacks on Israel . He was a high-ranking Egyptian military officer stationed with his family in Gaza. When he died, he was considered a "shahid," a martyr for jihad. His posthumous status earned Nonie and her family an elevated position in Muslim society.But Darwish developed a skeptical eye at an early age. She questioned her own Muslim culture and upbringing. She converted to Christianity after hearing a Christian preacher on television. In her latest book, Darwish warns about creeping sharia law - what it is, what it means, and how it is manifested in Islamic countries.

For the West, she says radical Islamists are working to impose sharia on the world. If that happens, Western civilization will be destroyed. Westerners generally assume all religions encourage a respect for the dignity of each individual. Islamic law (Sharia) teaches that non-Muslims should be subjugated or killed in this world. Peace and prosperity for one's children is not as important as assuring that Islamic law rules everywhere in the Middle East and eventually in the world. While Westerners tend to think that all religions encourage some form of the golden rule, Sharia teaches two systems of ethics - one for Muslims and another for non-Muslims. Building on tribal practices of the seventh century, Sharia encourages the side of humanity that wants to take from and subjugate others.

While Westerners tend to think in terms of religious people developing a personal understanding of and relationship with God, Sharia advocates executing people who ask difficult questions that could be interpreted as criticism. It's hard to imagine, that in this day and age, Islamic scholars agree that those who criticize Islam or choose to stop being Muslim should be executed. Sadly, while talk of an Islamic reformation is common and even assumed by many in the West, such murmurings in the Middle East are silenced through intimidation. While Westerners are accustomed to an increase in religious tolerance over time, Darwish explains how petro dollars are being used to grow an extremely intolerant form of political Islam in her native Egypt and elsewhere.

In twenty years there will be enough Muslim voters in the U.S. to elect the President by themselves! Rest assured they will do so... You can look at how they have taken over several towns in the USA .. Dearborn Mich. is one... and there are others...

I think everyone in the U.S. should be required to read this, but with the ACLU, there is no way this will be widely publicized, unless each of us sends it on! It is too bad that so many are disillusioned with life and Christianity to accept Muslims as peaceful.. some may be but they have an army that is willing to shed blood in the name of Islam.. the peaceful support the warriors with their finances and own kind of patriotism to their religion. While America is getting rid of Christianity from all public sites and erasing God from the lives of children the Muslims are planning a great jihad on America ..

This is your chance to make a difference...! Pass it on to your email list or at least those you think will listen..


magnoliazz profile image

magnoliazz 6 years ago from Wisconsin

If the above is not bad enough, I did not even share with you what Muslims do to women to keep them faithful. It goes way beyond wearing those hot black head to toe sacks. Google Female genital cutting (FGC), also known as female genital mutilation (FGM), female circumcision, or female genital mutilation/cutting (FGM/C), ...

I have seen the aftermath of an operation like this first hand, and I will tell you it is one of the sickest things I have ever seen, and it goes on everyday in Muslim countries and it happens to LITTLE GIRLS so they are marriageable!

As far as I am concerned, anyone who treats human beings like this do not even belong in this country, the only Muslims who belong here are the Muslim women who want to escape this way of life.

If more women knew about this, and the way the Muslim women are treated, there would be no mosques built in America ....ever!

AMERICAN TIGER, ONCE AGAIN YOU ARE 100% RIGHT!!

THANK GOD WE HAVE SOME REAL MEN LEFT IN THIS COUNTRY!


American Tiger 6 years ago

Shhh! Don't tell stevie. He thinks that Islamic Extremists who clearly and openly state they want Israel destroyed and all Americans to die, are simply misunderstood.

And an American using a classic debate foil like "When DID you stop beating your wife and raping your daughter?" as an illustration about the empty, baseless accusations of RACISM on the Tea Party, is obviously saying he wants to beat stevie's wife. Obviously.

Magz, dear lady; You are a Gem.


steve8miller profile image

steve8miller 6 years ago from Ohio Great City of Dayton Author

I have not smoked that much dope today =0) However my argument stands steadfast. I will not waver. I have friends that are Muslim. The women do not have to wear coverings in all Muslim countries. You are only considering a more radical view of Islam. So I ask you magnoliazz, how do you feel about Amish women? Are they being persecuted? I see what you are saying, however your augment is simple and only covering what you want it to. You are Christians who feel Christianity is the right way, and Islam is the wrong way. You are entitled to your opinions. I will pray for you both, good luck and GOD bless.


steve8miller profile image

steve8miller 6 years ago from Ohio Great City of Dayton Author

Again Tiger wife beating and child rape seems to be on your mind quite often. Ever hear the argument entitled "Red Herring?" I have done a work up on people like you Tiger. You are an egotistical narsisist. You attempt to boost your own ego. You do this by assuming you have beaten me in an argument. However the only thing you are beating would be your wife. =0) apparently you bring it up enough. I have heard you label an argument as a "Straw Man" Either you never heard of the old "Red Herring" which you are an expert at yourself. Or you just use your own life experience as examples. So again tell me Tiger, which one is it? For us sane people beating and raping is not an example that comes to mind. Especially to the extent in which you bring them up. Can we say projector! Waiting for your next big Red Herring to come up. Look Tiger a bear look everyone a big green bear entered the room....... What were we talking about...??? Oh well, that bear is awesome. You are a funny man Tiger. Can't wait to rip you apart some more. Still waiting on the 5th hub you make about me. Oh I am soooo excited. I love you Tiger and continue to pray for you. All in good fun... Well at least for me, you get quite angry. Tiger take life slow, and do not take it so seriously all of the time. In the end we are but two people in a big world. Again Good luck and GOD bless.


magnoliazz profile image

magnoliazz 6 years ago from Wisconsin

Stevie, Just calm down Stevie Boy, roll yourself a big joint, and before you know it you will even love Shariah Law. I bet you think thats what Jesus would do? Right? Roll a big joint and just love the people who would kill you if given a chance.

Obviously, you did not even read my comment, probably was a little too doped up for that, but thats okay Stevie, because most of the time you make no sense whatsoever anyhow.

As for American Tiger, you owe him an apology! You are completley twisting everything he says. No wonder he wrote a hub about you!


American Tiger 6 years ago

"Again Tiger wife beating and child rape seems to be on your mind quite often... Especially to the extent in which you bring them up."

~Never mind this last comment was the second time I've ever mentioned it. EVER.~

"You are a funny man Tiger. Can't wait to rip you apart some more."

~Do you intend to use the same "ocumz razer" you mentioned in comments on my last Hub? That "4.0 in the Philosophy of Logic" you claimed, was from a remedial school somewhere outside Mosul, yes?~


steve8miller profile image

steve8miller 6 years ago from Ohio Great City of Dayton Author

magnoliazz I know about FGM it is primarily still used in places in India. You need to take an eastern religions class. Perhaps after that you will understand more about other religions, rather than just the one you are so devoted to. I am not going to allow your comments through when you are blatantly angry, and intolerant. You mentioned I was ignorant which is funny. Are you not the one who stated.

magnoliazz 2 days ago

A very thought provoking and interesting hub! Deserves much more than just a thumbs up!

magnoliazz 7 weeks ago

WOW! Is this real or fiction?

I know all about the vibrating thing, it has happened to me many times. Whatever it is, I usually fight it.

Amazing and thought provoking!

Perhaps you need to veer away from my political hubs. You need to learn how to agree to disagree. I am not going to change your mind, as well you will never change my mind. As for the Tiger, well good luck. GOD bless you again.

This hub reminds me a lot of Blake4d's hubs ( I consider him a genius), so you are in good company.

Here's a question. When will we know all these truths once and for all? When we die, will we know then?

Or, do humans create the truth with their own thoughts?

Many say we create this world and our paths in it with what we believe to be true.


steve8miller profile image

steve8miller 6 years ago from Ohio Great City of Dayton Author

As for you Tiger. Well you see the lady who wants you to be president. Perhaps it has something to do with "I know all about the vibrating thing, it has happened to me many times. Whatever it is, I usually fight it."

magnoliazz You really gave me no choice on the matter. I still love you. However you need to learn to watch what you say, as it can be used against you. I still appreciate that comment. Thanks again, good luck and GOD bless.


American Tiger 6 years ago

Magnoliazz had never seen your penchant for misapplication, your vengeful bent, nor your devout inability to speak truth or answer a question, stevie8steve. She was laboring under the impression you were just a quirky propeller-head, not a full-fledged scumbag with zero redeeming qualities.

What might have been cute for a while, she learned was actually quite creepy. That would be YOU, stevie. And when she calls you on your stupidities, you block her comments. just like you SWEAR you would never do, because only people with no valid argument would block comments.

So, to sum up your absolute lack of personal ethics, your willingness to fabricate facts, and your inability to answer a single question I've asked you, I'll answer them FOR you:

You never contacted Rear Admiral Coogan of the United States Coast Guard, to report an Honorably Discharged Coast Guard Officer whom you claim advocated spitting on Soldiers. Because you have zero proof, and making false accusations of that nature can get a narcissistic little pathological sociopath in deep trouble.

You never had a 4.0 in logic, history, or any other philosophy, or even any High School class. Aside from perhaps Basket Weaving or Drama. Because such a brutal misspelling of Occam's Razor to "ocumz razer" speaks to a profound lack of knowledge on the subject of Logic, and Spelling. You didn't even have enough clue to have a spell-check figure out what you were trying to say. (They teach Occam's in the first week of high school level Logic courses.)

You've never served in the military, because the practice of "driving through mine fields every day" is completely unheard of. On top of which, all you mention is "USAR," no Regiment, Battalion, Division, Company, Platoon, Squad, Rating or Rank. There's not a Soldier I know who wouldn't have hit me with at least SOME of that, when I mentioned my service.

You've never had a gun pulled on you. BY anyone. AT any time. Let alone by a black child. Because that kind of thing does indeed change a man, and you exhibit none of the changes such an experience would bring about. None. And those aren't things you can fake.

If the beautiful little child you use in your profile photo is indeed yours, she has my deepest sympathy. That she need be raised by as low and disingenuous a scumbag as yourself sends me to my knees in nightly prayer for her precious soul.

My only solace is that if she develops like an average child, she'll be demonstrably smarter than you, well before her 14th birthday. By which point, I shouldn't be surprised she seek emancipation.


magnoliazz profile image

magnoliazz 6 years ago from Wisconsin

Steve, I am a nurse who has seen FGM FIRST HAND! You are the one who is in need of some real life experiences! FGM is a Muslim practice and although it has been outlawed in some countries, it still goes on and the law just looks the other way....because that is how things are done in Shariah Law countries.

Your other remarks to me...of course I can agree with you on other subjects. Politics is a totally different subject than the metaphysical. Once again Steve, you are taking things out of context and twisting them. You did the same thing to American Tiger.

If you really received a 4.0 in logic, you would realize that. But that is not how you think. You think if you say something over and over again, it will magically come true.

Radical Islam is a dangerous threat to America and what are you doing about it?

You are getting high!


dosters profile image

dosters 6 years ago from Chicago

This post seems to have veered off into an unbecoming "us vs them" thread. I don't really buy that argument. The underlying assumptions are that since "they" (Muslim countries ruled by oppressive sharia law) would not allow "us" (American Christians) to build our houses of worship, that "we" (The United States of America, a constitutional republic) should not allow "them" (American Muslims) to build their house of worship here.

That argument falters on this question: is our constitutional republic better than oppressive sharia law or is it the same? If you feel that it is better than oppressive sharia law, then the argument falls apart.

I have a more "secular" or "legal" view of it on my hub:

http://hubpages.com/politics/How-the-GOP-helped-to...


American Tiger 6 years ago

Magnoliazz had never seen your penchant for misapplication, your vengeful bent, nor your devout inability to speak truth or answer a question, stevie8steve. She was laboring under the impression you were just a quirky propeller-head, not a full-fledged scumbag with zero redeeming qualities.

What might have been cute for a while, she learned was actually quite creepy. That would be YOU, stevie. And when she calls you on your stupidities, you block her comments. just like you SWEAR you would never do, because only people with no valid argument would block comments.

So, to sum up your absolute lack of personal ethics, your willingness to fabricate facts, and your inability to answer a single question I've asked you, I'll answer them FOR you:

You never contacted Rear Admiral Coogan of the United States Coast Guard, to report an Honorably Discharged Coast Guard Officer whom you claim advocated spitting on Soldiers. Because you have zero proof, and making false accusations of that nature can get a narcissistic little pathological sociopath in deep trouble.

You never had a 4.0 in logic, history, or any other philosophy, or even any High School class. Aside from perhaps Basket Weaving or Drama. Because such a brutal misspelling of Occam's Razor to "ocumz razer" speaks to a profound lack of knowledge on the subject of Logic, and Spelling. You didn't even have enough clue to have a spell-check figure out what you were trying to say. (They teach Occam's in the first week of high school level Logic courses.)

You've never served in the military, because the practice of "driving through mine fields every day" is completely unheard of. On top of which, all you mention is "USAR," no Regiment, Battalion, Division, Company, Platoon, Squad, Rating or Rank. There's not a Soldier I know who wouldn't have hit me with at least SOME of that, when I mentioned my service.

You've never had a gun pulled on you. BY anyone. AT any time. Let alone by a black child. Because that kind of thing does indeed change a man, and you exhibit none of the changes such an experience would bring about. None. And those aren't things you can fake.

If the beautiful little child you use in your profile photo is indeed yours, she has my deepest sympathy. That she need be raised by as low and disingenuous a scumbag as yourself sends me to my knees in nightly prayer for her precious soul.

My only solace is that if she develops like an average child, she'll be demonstrably smarter than you, well before her 14th birthday. By which point, I shouldn't be surprised she seek emancipation.


magnoliazz profile image

magnoliazz 6 years ago from Wisconsin

Dosters- Under Shariah Law children are used as sex toys. But don't take it from me! Read my above comment and see what a Muslim woman says about Shariah Law. "Joys of Muslim Women" by Nonie Darwish.

The Muslim faith does not believe in religious freedom. If you are a non Muslim and do not convert to Islam, you can be executed.

As far as I know, in America...child abuse is illegal and in America, we have religious freedom and welcome all faiths including Islam, if they are not the radical Islam. Radical Islam/Shariah Law stands for everything America is not.

You may know the laws of this land, but you don't understand the laws of Islam. To make an intelligent argument on this on this subject you need to understand both.


magnoliazz profile image

magnoliazz 6 years ago from Wisconsin

Steve, some of your comments are really getting out there, even for you kiddo!

Its no wonder American Tiger left you this last comment, which I feel you richly deserved!

We are trying to debate an important issue and you stoop to these weird implications!

I think its time for you to go and smoke something!


dosters profile image

dosters 6 years ago from Chicago

magnoliazz- you seem to misunderstood what my point was. You and I have a similar understanding of shariah law- that it is often harsh and brutal and oppressive to other faiths. I couldn't agree with you more.

And therein lies the problem with the us vs them argument. People like to say America should disallow the mosque because nations under shariah law don't allow religious freedom. That is a complete non sequitur argument. They have their laws and we have ours. It is clear that you believe (as I do) that ours are better, and that rational people should choose ours in the marketplace of ideas. But all ideas have the right to be spoken, and all religions have the right to be espoused in the United States.

On a personal note, I resent the implication that I do not understand the laws of Islam. I never once insinuated that they are good. Reread my post if you need to.


steve8miller profile image

steve8miller 6 years ago from Ohio Great City of Dayton Author

Magnoliazz you are so clouded by personal bias you cannot even think straight. You are acting like building another Mosque in New York, well technically a "Rec Center" That means Shariah Law is coming to America. This argument is simple insane. There are Islamic peoples in America, these peoples do not practice Sharia Law. So there, now your argument has fallen apart. That is like attempting to say that all Christians are in the KKK. Just because one branch of the KKK, gets particular attention.

I had to mention the fact that you claim you are a nurse and have worked with women who had the atrocious act of Female Genital Mutilation. This act is illegal in America, so do you live in India? I when doing training in sociology had to watch a video of this atrocious act. You have read it in a book and think that all Muslims do this horrendous act. You are as my grandmother states "Wet behind the ears" You read a book and think you know a religion. How about reading "The Memory of Hands" Oh magnoliazz we would not want to destroy your radical view of Islam. You have been deceived in thinking that all Islams are radical. Well you parallel the Islamic terrorist who believe that all Americas are radical fanatical KKK members. And you Magnoliazz are one of the reasons why people hate America. So next time GOD forbid America gets attacked, we all should thank you for spreading your fear and hate. Again good luck and GOD bless you all.

You keep insisting I am smoking something. Well stop projecting that on to me, as you mention it in 8 post I have counted so far. Either you have an addict in your family, or you are smoking something magnoliazz. Perhaps that explains it all.


American Tiger 6 years ago

"You have been deceived in thinking that all Islams are radical."

Stevie also maintains that "not all Dumbs are Blond."

"You are acting like building another Mosque in New York, well technically a "Rec Center" That means Shariah Law is coming to America."

Well, when the "Islams" (ROFLMAO) who are financially supporting the "rec center" all have "To Make Shariah the Law of Every Land" in their mission statements, it's a fairly safe inference to make.

Much like your own belief that by 2025, we will be in contact with Other Intelligent Alien Races, and its only a matter of taking the right steps, so does Radical Muslim-ish-istic-ness-dudes(?) feel that conquering America for Islam is merely a matter of incremental steps. This little -salt in the wound- Glittering Shrine (sorry: rec center) to their most successful blow to the Great Satan is just another step in that direction.

It will stand as further proof to the Jihadi Hoards all over the world, that America is weak, and easily fooled. You, dear stevie, ARE EXACTLY that weak fool they're counting on.

Do you think the 9-11 Terrorists who took flight school here in America told the instructors they were here to learn Building Crashing? Or is it more likely they smiled, and told stories of their dreams of working in the Airline Industry?

A Soldier would understand the kind of enemy Psy-Ops this little rec center represents. A useless little self absorbed, narcissistic scumbag like your pot-smoking self, will buy every word your enemies utter.

Magz has only tried to show you facts, and help you see that the very people you're defending are the ones who want you dead. I myself love that I live in a Country that allows you and I to speak our minds in open forums. And I'd much rather deal in words with you than in bullets with a terrorist. Get that through your drug addled, pointy little head.


steve8miller profile image

steve8miller 6 years ago from Ohio Great City of Dayton Author

Tiger you are great. If someone shows you to be an ignorant fool in an argument just call them as you stated "Get that through your drug addled, pointy little head." Keep putting up your "Red Herrings" Tiger I am sure you must be fooling some people. Well Magz is pretty fooled. Label anyone against you a drug addict, how does that work for you two huh? Just stop projecting your troubles on me already.

Having served in Iraq I can say you know nothing about anything Tiger. First of all if you are in the Coast Guard you need to be in the Gulf helping the citizens that lost everything. Especially in places like Louisiana. The problem with you Tiger is you simply restate my own words and use them against me. You need some originality. Anyone reading this post will see I stated that you and Magz are only helping further recruit terrorist against America. I know a lot of soldiers in Afghanistan and Iraq right now as we speak. I think it is interesting they believe the same as I do. Your life is not on the line so I am sure they would just tell you to shut the blank up. However I understand your kind, so I forgive you.

PS. I know Islamic American Soldiers. Oh let me guess Tiger they are as you stated "It will stand as further proof to the Jihadi Hoards all over the world, that America is weak, and easily fooled." So we in the Armed Forces are easily fooled huh. Here you go again putting down the Armed Forces Tiger. You must have not been able to get into the Army or Marines, or Air force. So now you must hate them. At least the Coast Guard accepted you, they are more laxed on things like drug use, and psychological testing. Again Tiger and Magz, good luck and GOD bless. I continue to pray for you, and hope you battle through your demons.


steve8miller profile image

steve8miller 6 years ago from Ohio Great City of Dayton Author

As for you Magz what are you talking about when you state.

"Steve, some of your comments are really getting out there, even for you kiddo!

Its no wonder American Tiger left you this last comment, which I feel you richly deserved!

We are trying to debate an important issue and you stoop to these weird implications!

I think its time for you to go and smoke something!"

What have I said that deviates from what I have been repeating over and over again. Moreover what makes me as you state "stoop to these weird implications!" What does that mean. Show me an example.

Am I the one who has to fight the weird vibration thing. My training in psychology would lead me to refer you to some sort of intense therapy. Although it could be drugs. Opiate withdraw does lead to RLS. Does this happen to you at night when you are trying to sleep? I think you should back out of this debate here Magz. I love your comments on my other hubs. However you need to veer away from anything political I write. Or I will have another Tiger to deal with. lol I still love ya Magz. You just leave me no choice here. You question my sanity when you are the one who fights alien abduction on a nightly basis. lol Do not hate me, I have a morbid sense of humor. I still love you Magz. I love you too Tiger, I would not forget you. I am sure you are getting jealous Tiger. I will save room for you. I am allowing all of your comments Tiger and Magz. I have nothing to hide by censoring them, even though a few people have told me too. I do not want to be like you Tiger and block every comment I try to make on your hubs. So you will see I allowed them all, even the rants. I mean Tiger blocks my comments on hubs that agree with him. I know why, it would be because the Tiger is the king of propaganda. Tiger does anything to make me look bad, however it normally just hurts his hubs and following. Again good luck and GOD bless you all.


steve8miller profile image

steve8miller 6 years ago from Ohio Great City of Dayton Author

Maybe Tiger and Magz should also go back and look at HSchneider comment. As HSchneider lost 7 friends in the attack. What about people like him Tiger and Magz. You guys were not there, and lost no one in the attack. As I am 100 percent sure Tiger would have already mentioned that, as well as Magz. Thanks again HSchneider!

I think as well Magz and Tiger forgot that this is a debate about a Mosque near ground zero. Not FGM, or Islamic extremism. Getting troubled youth to a rec center will help America not hurt it. As well what faith do you Tiger have in our CIA and FBI, and NSA, and Homeland security. You really think they will be plotting attacks right near the 911 site and none of these agencies have the ability to stop it? Obama has not allowed a single attack in America as well, unlike Bush who vacationed the whole month prior to 911. If Obama agrees it should be built, then it should be built. We should agree with the man who has not allowed another attack. Actually he has foiled a bunch of them. No one talks about that though. Once you do not allow a Mosque to be built in America you hinder religious freedom. You as well set the precedent to not allow a church to be built if as you state. ""To Make Shariah the Law of Every Land" in their mission statements" So use your brains America is home of the brave and land of the free. So do not let your fear of Islam hinder America freedom. For when you do that, they win!


American Tiger 6 years ago

Golly stevie. WHERE is that comment?

"...as you stated "Get that through your drug addled, pointy little head."" Or this one "Tiger they are as you stated "It will stand as further proof to the Jihadi Hoards all over the world, that America is weak, and easily fooled."

"I am allowing all of your comments Tiger and Magz. I have nothing to hide by censoring them, even though a few people have told me too. I do not want to be like you Tiger and block every comment I try to make on your hubs. So you will see I allowed them all, even the rants."

If you're not blocking my comments, where ARE they? Wait. You can't quote them -ineptly- out of context, if you allow my posts.

Who, exactly, do you think you're fooling with that kind of double-speak?


VROX2010 profile image

VROX2010 6 years ago

Muslims did not attack New York. Some fanatics did. Would we not support a Christian church if it were Christians. Fear mongering is rampant in America. All that is needed is some right wing voice to spread fear and hatred, and division...


American Tiger 6 years ago

Only one flaw in that theory, VROX: Christians have not, do not, and will not, engage in terrorist activities. Practicing that sort of thing is the current calling card of ONE religion's group of religious radicals. That religion is Islam.

And finding Muslims willing to speak ill of those terrorists publicly is so rare as to be considered news worthy. As evidenced by the Video which Steve provided in this very Hub.

Flying Jumbo Jets into Buildings causes fear, hatred, and division. Telling the people who support that kind of activity that they may NOT build a shrine to it, is anything BUT.

Thank you for re-posting my earlier comments, steve. I know that cost you.


steve8miller profile image

steve8miller 6 years ago from Ohio Great City of Dayton Author

Wow Tiger that just shows you do not even read my comments here. You just rant without thought. The KKK justifies their every action from the Bible, and Christianity. They burn crosses as well. They are a fanatical Christian group. That just shows your ignorance Tiger. I mean not to mention Heavens Gate Christian Cult. Tiger do you know anything about Christianity, or Islam? I have studied every major religion known to man, and am currently still working on my bachelors in religion. I have studied both eastern and western religion for years.

Ut oh Tiger looks like your ignorance is showing. You know better than that Tiger. What is this and I quote "Christians have not, do not, and will not, engage in terrorist activities." Unless you are racist and believe that minorities being taunted, tortured and killed terror. I mean I will not even go back into the past and speak about Christian Terror as it related to Native Americans, and even citizens. I will stick to the present, because there are groups that justify terror through the bible and Christianity.


American Tiger 6 years ago

You bring a few interesting points to bare, even while telling obviously false self aggrandizements about your schooling. (People in school can write, stevie8steve. It's kind of their thing.) However, you've conditioned me to be excited whenever you speak even a tiny shred of truth, so I'll take what I can get.

There are indeed cults which hide behind twisted, myopic, poorly interpreted views of Bible passages. They are small, and quite vocally denounced by the other 99.5% of Christianity. I'm surprised you weren't a member of the Heaven's Gate cult, stevie. Shame you didn't live in San Diego, huh? They all committed suicide (well, all 38 of them) so they could rendezvous with a Space Ship! As if that's not your kind of crowd.

The Catholic Church, which really isn't what I'd call "Christian" (Nor did Martin Luther) has pulled some truly creepy stunts, as well. The Inquisition comes to mind. But again, that's not "Christianity", that's Catholicism. AND, it's how many hundreds of years in the past?

Your claims of Native Americans suffering at the hands of Christians is a new one on me. Most native cultures we found, by a wide margin, were bloody-minded stone-aged nomads, with little better to occupy their time than endless tribal warfare. Until Spaniards came along, they had no horses, or even the wheel. Left to their own devices (without White, Christian, European interloping) it is doubtful the North American Continent would yet be into it's Bronze Age. Those few peaceful farmer types like the Pueblo had to remain isolated, or their crop-stealing slave-taking neighbors would pillage and rape them into oblivion.

How many KKK fund raisers have you found trolling for donations in your local Baptist congregation? Hamas, Fatah, and the Muslim Brotherhood send fund raisers to Mosques the world over to raise money. And they collect millions. They are never turned away.

When was the last time you read a headline like this one, which read "Christian terrorists kill 4 Jews?"

http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/20...

That happened YESTERDAY, you pin-headed stooge. Try and find a related story about ALL the Muslims that are outraged by that cold blooded murder of unarmed civilians. One of the women was pregnant, so really it was 5 innocents killed. Really. I mean it. Find me even an American Mosque that is willing, in print, to denounce those cowardly terrorists who just killed 5 people for no better reason that they COULD, for the psychopaths they are. I guarantee you've got your work cut out for you.

Then find me the Baptist, 7th Day Adventist, Lutheran, Pentecostal, Four Square, or any other run-of-the-mill Christian church who would not immediately and publicly denounce any group of "christians" who committed this kind of atrocity.

To find that level of antisemitism, you'd have to troll a skinhead compound. And those cowardly little sacks-of-crap are about as "christian" as Al Qaeda.


dosters profile image

dosters 6 years ago from Chicago

To American TIger-

There is at least one peaceful branch of Islam in America, Ahmadiyya Muslim Communities. Below is their website stating their position on terrorism and jihad.

http://www.alislam.org/terrorism.html


steve8miller profile image

steve8miller 6 years ago from Ohio Great City of Dayton Author

Actually Tiger not all of the heavens gate cult members commited suicide. The guy who informed the police had recently left the group. Again Tiger, your ignorance is showing. Do not talk about things you know nothing about. I have did several studies on cults. You fit right into the cult mentality. That is most of the reason I am praying for you Tiger. Good luck and GOD bless Tiger.

By the way you stated

"Most native cultures we found, by a wide margin, were bloody-minded stone-aged nomads, with little better to occupy their time than endless tribal warfare" You went on a rant about the Native Americans. I am sure you have just offended a lot of people. I mean the Native Americans would be nothing without white people aurgument. I thought that aurgument died with the confederacy. Do you believe that about blacks as well, Tiger. Oh without us white people everyone else would be Nomadic Idoits. Come on you fool, you are blatantly racist. A thing you attempt to deny, however you cannot control your racism. It went from subtle to blatant.


OpenMinded 6 years ago

I wish unAmerican Pussy would quit littering the internet with garbage. Please look a few things up "Tiger" before you spew them as fact for some dumb Americans to repeat before fact-checking You are wasting everyone's time.


steve8miller profile image

steve8miller 6 years ago from Ohio Great City of Dayton Author

lol, I do not know what to say openMinded. Tiger has just been brainwashed. I do not agree with calling him names. However I do agree with you on the fact of him littering the internet up with garbage. Calling people like Tiger names will only make them worse. I do not think Tiger knows where to find out real facts. He claims all colleges spew liberal nonsense. He goes to those seminars that teach people how to be assertive. As well Tiger goes to those conservative seminars to learn the latest quasi sciences. I wish you luck Tiger.


thatguy1987 6 years ago

this is for the American Tiger (think you could have picked an animal that actually is found in the American Wild) i am not probably going to a Dominant Muslim nation anytime soon and i hear they are harsh towards outsiders. hmmm so does that justify us in this country being just as close minded? i am Christian and my family has roots in this country dating back to before the revolution and guess what, i don't have a problem with this religious center being built because i was raised to one, trust in God; two, trust in the consitution (which has guided us for oh a good bit of time haha), and the ideal that what makes Americans special is that we don't follow the crowd. if a Muslim in his own country on the ther side of the planet wants to burn a cross and spurn my name, he is welcome to it, but in my country, in my homeland, i will give my fellow citizen, whoever that may be, the respect that the he/she deserves protected under the constitution and i will chalenge you sir to remember that to judge an entire population on the acts of a few is not only ignorant but hypocritical because our own nation is not without our own blood on our hands. we look back on the civil rights of others in the past and we scorn those who opposed civil progress and can you say with total certainty in your heart that by trying to deny these people the right to religious assembly won't be looked down upon with the same scorn by our children and ground children. i would like to think that protecting the constitution should be the priority of any responsible American citizen, not blindly judging those who you have never met or bring up points that are unrelated to the subject. the overall issue is cut and dried, these people are filling a vacant coa actory that has otherwise sat empty for nine years, putting money into the economy of the city in a recession, and in a way erasing some of the damage other THE RADICAL AGENTS THAT ATTACKED US in 2001. i understand the pain and anguish that 9/11 families have suffered and my heart goes out to them but to hatred can not be answered with more hate. i hope that you can overcome your need to one up the man who wrote this article or myself but i am sure you will because even though you have not presented any actual argument related to the subject, you will and you will probably insult me in some way that is fine, but if you respond to this, attach to your post the proof of whatever claim and/or argument you have that can give you statement some kind of credibilty. otherwise i suggest you take a break and think up a more "American" tag haha


thatguy1987 6 years ago

oh haha i apologize for my bad grammar Tiger, I was talking to my grandmother who is 90, and we were having a long discussion about all of the times our country has wronged groups of people because of ignorant fear. here some examples, The Irish, The Jews, umm maybe African Americans, Gays, Native Americans, other white people(look up Andersonville, Chinese Migrant workers, Japanese Americans, Catholics, and women. haha you know hat i get it now, i know why your so full of anger about this issue, Muslims are the only people left that haven't been really harrassed. so i guess your about equal treatment for all, as long as it is negative and abusive right haha again to all others reading this i apologize for my poor grammar. ps-420 has less toxins in it than a beer or a cigarette of equal size so stick that in your Ivory pipe(doubt your an animal person) and smoke it long and hard


steve8miller profile image

steve8miller 6 years ago from Ohio Great City of Dayton Author

Need I even say anything as "Thatguy" has summed it up. Tiger loves his "Red Herrings". I figured people would see right through him. You presented many great arguments, as well as reinvigorated some of mine saving me precious time. I am done arguing with the Tiger, I will defer to the many other great Americans who posted great insight to this so called debate.


American Tiger 6 years ago

For crying out loud, Stevie. You ARE "Thatguy1987."

Long drawn out stream-of-consciousness rants, with poor grammar, run-on sentence structure and inept punctuation. Followed immediately by a second, equally impossible to read rant. Not to mention, his themes are your themes.

Logging out of the HubPages and writing anonymous comments to yourself just gives further proof to your willingness to lie and obfuscate. You're in danger of becoming a parody of yourself, stevie "I have did studies on cults" steve.

I'll ask again: Don't you feel, in your heart, that if you HAVE TO LIE to prove your point, it's not really a point worth proving? When I was 4, I didn't think people should know if I was lying or not, simply because they should only be working with the information I provided to them. You're working with that same set of rules, stevie. Unfortunately for your methods, the Adults have a little tool called "discernment" which allows us to know when lies are being told.

----------------------------------------------------------

Dosters. I went to the site you posted a link to. First article I read contained THIS little gem:

"But any Palestinian resistance to Israeli illegal occupation is denounced as “terrorism” and is responded by Israel with overwhelming armed attacks."

Calling Israel "illegal" then calling a series of non-stop bomb runs into Israeli bedroom communities "resistance" shoots their whole "Peace and Love" argument in the foot. So far, the Glenn Beck 200 Muslim March video stevie posted is all I've seen of genuine denouncement.

Stevie.... I'm tempted to believe you're OpenMinded, too. His desire to shut up an opposing viewpoint and Mad Clever turn of Tiger into Pussy lead me that way, but he also used quotation marks and only wrote 4 lines of text, so I'm still on the fence with that one.

You're right to smack me a little for the Native bashing. I should have been more complete in my points. There were and are, absolutely, cultures like the Anastasi and Pueblo who were peaceful and mature. Certainly worth studying and learning from. Tribes like those are the exceptions which prove the norm.

To say that the bulk of the Native American clans were NOT warlike, nomadic and stone-age in their technology is to turn a blind eye to history. There were cannibals living here in Western Nevada 300 years ago (giant, pale skinned Red Headed cannibals, as the stories go). They harasses -and ate- all of the local Paiute tribes. An unheard of, unprecedented, never-before-seen "uniting of the clans" was necessary to rid the land of them.

Once all the cannibals were dead, the battles, raids and slave-takings resumed as scheduled. Little museums in towns like Lovelock and Winnemucca tell the tales clearly.


dosters profile image

dosters 6 years ago from Chicago

American Tiger- you took that quote out of context. It was in a paragraph explaining the perception of America by potentially radical muslims. This is the quote in context:

"We should acknowledge the fact that for millions of Muslims all over the world, the image of America is troublesome: To them it seems as if the USA is determined to invade, occupy or dominate the oil-rich Muslim countries for economical gains. America calls for freedom and democracy, but at the same time it has supported world’s worst authoritarian dictators and oppressive governments in the past, such as the Shah of Iran and Pakistani army dictator General Zia-ul-Haq. The Muslim public feels that the U.S.A.’s attitude towards Israel is different as compared with the Muslim countries. Israel’s illegal occupation of Palestinian land, establishing illegal settlements, and use of force is not condemned by America. But any Palestinian resistance to Israeli illegal occupation is denounced as “terrorism” and is responded by Israel with overwhelming armed attacks. This causes further radicalization of resistance factions in Palestine and elsewhere in the Muslim world."

Note that the author never says one way or the other whether the occupation is truly illegal, simply that the muslim world perceives it that way, which is true. He is addressing perception, using words such as "seems," "feels", and "image."

I enjoy intellectual debate, but quoting out of context is not playing fair.


steve8miller profile image

steve8miller 6 years ago from Ohio Great City of Dayton Author

Wow Tiger again anyone who agree's with me, is me! Wow your ego has been boosted, come back to earth Tiger. Tiger come down here please. Tiger, Earth, come back please. What is that, the 4th person who you have claimed is me? I am Dosters too, I am also VROX, and Magz. However what really may just surprise you all...... I am the Tiger! My personality split off into two factions. One is a great human being, loving and humbling. The other is a homosexual, narcissistic, egotistical, sociopathic, racist, serial killer named "American Tiger".. Now I am about to explode, I am overloading. The Tiger has regained control.

ps this hub gets hundreds of hits a day Tiger. Unlike any of yours Tiger, so people outside of hubpages read this popular hub I wrote. I know you know nothing about SEO or anything so you may find that a bit hard to understand. I know you are attempting to leech off of my fame Tiger. Again Tiger Good luck and GOD bless..... Thank you Steve, Shalom Shalom Steve..... Oh how nice of you Tiger, Hasta Luego, Tiger..... No problem I see your point Steve, your personalities have merged again, Steve has finally taken control. Well Tiger good luck. =0)


steve8miller profile image

steve8miller 6 years ago from Ohio Great City of Dayton Author

Just for kicks in case someone actually believes your old "anyone who agrees with me, is me argument" All one has to do is a quick "whois" on the IP address listed in the upper right hand corner of the comment. They obviously differ from my IP. What now Tiger, let me guess I am using a proxy. lol You are great Tiger. I know a few people must think you are a total Jack "butt" mostly the people who wrote those comments.

PS Just figured I would put that nice "Red Herring" to sleep, so we can move on to the topic. "Allowing The Mosque At Ground Zero"


American Tiger 6 years ago

Dosters, read this and tell me it's not the author's opinion.

"The Muslim public feels that the U.S.A.’s attitude towards Israel is different as compared with the Muslim countries. ****Israel’s illegal occupation of Palestinian land, establishing illegal settlements, and use of force is not condemned by America.**** But any Palestinian resistance to Israeli illegal occupation is denounced as “terrorism” and is responded by Israel with overwhelming armed attacks."

Now it's in context. It is still a statement full of lies about current and historical events. He doesn't say "the Muslim public 'wrongly' feels" at all. This guy firmly believes Israel is in "occupation" of Palestine. He also feels that when Palestinians lob hundreds of bombs into Israeli neighborhoods -homes and schools, not military bases- it's just "resistance," and perfectly acceptable.

----------------------------------------------------------

stevie8steve, have you noticed that you're the only guy speaking in terms of "ever, always & everyone?" Of course there are people who agree with you, who aren't you. I only point out the times where you feel they aren't agreeing with you as much as you feel they should be, and "help" them by opening a new account and commenting on your own Hubs.

I clicked on your ThatGuy profile after leaving my last comment. He seems to have been created exactly before leaving 3 comments, all on your Hubs. He has no Hubs or profile or picture of his own.

Discernment, stevie. The Adults know when you're lying, every time you try. But, as per the Pathological mind set, when caught in a lie, you do not confess and repent. You instead attempt even better lies.

I have no problem with a Mosque, until I discover it's being used as a recruitment center for "American looking" Jihadi warriors (the shoe-bomber and that kid they found fighting Americans in the middle east were both recruited right here in the USA). I have no problem with an Imam, until I discover he raises money for Hamas and the Muslim Brotherhood.

I have no problem what-so-ever with the Freedom of Religion. My mother's family were Protestants living in a Catholic district in Ireland. My own family's history is filled with violent expressions of politics disguised as religion. My mother could not WAIT to get to America.

I DO have a problem with people who try to slip their 1400 year history of hate, murder, terror, intolerance, rape, mutilation and absolute disdain for everything America stands for, in behind America's religious tolerance.

Building a shrine to their greatest victory to date (also a historical habit of Islam), in a city where 100 Mosques already exist, is very much rubbing salt into the wound.


steve8miller profile image

steve8miller 6 years ago from Ohio Great City of Dayton Author

Wow Tiger, you really think I am attempting to "fool you". I am thinking you must do whatever it is you say I am doing. I mean look at the ip addresses and whois them. However you will not. This is what you do Tiger. You create Red Herrings all over the place. However this one is the most pathetic. I have no reason to do a bunch of things to create comments on my own hubs. That is ignorant, only you would even think of such things. You should not ask Dosters by the way, as I am Dosters too. You are really reaching now Tiger. Talk about a pathetic attempt to discredit me. I am really beginning to feel sorry for you Tiger, I know you are reaching now man. I must really have you by the spine right now.


dosters profile image

dosters 6 years ago from Chicago

American Tiger-

First off, I put it in context for everyone already, no need to be redundant.

Second, you said "Really. I mean it. Find me even an American Mosque that is willing, in print, to denounce those cowardly terrorists who just killed 5 people for no better reason that they COULD, for the psychopaths they are. I guarantee you've got your work cut out for you." Well, I did. And it wasn't hard because I actually interact with people who don't share my opinions and beliefs on a regular basis. On the very same page you quote from are the following:

"It is a great tragedy in the history of Isl?m that the concept of Jih?d was distorted by over-zealous preachers and radical Muslim scholars."

"to kill innocent people in the name of Jih?d is forbidden in Isl?m."

"Killing of the innocent and committing suicide both are grievous sins in Islam."

"We need to wage an information war against the hate-preaching Mull?s and against their perverted ideology of Jih?d."

However, you wouldn't accept their denouncement because they don't fully sympathize with Israel.


dosters profile image

dosters 6 years ago from Chicago

Don't know why all the "a" letters came out at ? when they were pasted in...


steve8miller profile image

steve8miller 6 years ago from Ohio Great City of Dayton Author

Tiger I live in Dayton Ohio. You know where the Mosque was gassed, where little children were praying. A radical person like yourself felt there was a need to take action against children in this Mosque here. It was after that stupid Obsession movie, that people like yourself promote. This mosque denounces the attacks of 911. I have attended many Mosques in my area Tiger. You only show your racist insanity with statements like you present. Again Tiger good luck and GOD bless.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/naazish-yarkhan/musl...


steve8miller profile image

steve8miller 6 years ago from Ohio Great City of Dayton Author

Tiger I as well could not believe you stated this on my hub about "how the people in New Orleans have went through so many hard times in the past 10 years" You show your sheer ignorance as you stated and I quote below.

"I was very sorry to read that while a little boy of 4, up until you graduated Alternative School and left home for the Men's Shelter, your mother would force a large butt-plug into you, cuff your hands behind your back, and lock you naked into the dog-run along your back fence. The horror you felt when cars drove by, fearing, and then eventually hoping, some one would see you."

Wow stop projecting these insane fantasies onto me Tiger. See that is the difference between the Liberal and the Conservative. The Conservative talks about god, and loving thy neighbor. Where the Liberal lives with GOD and we still even love you Tiger. Even after this insane homosexual rant about my mother. I feel you are projecting a bit Tiger. I am continuing to pray for you Tiger. I am sorry about your childhood. I could not even imagine such a thing. Let alone visualize it and write about it. You must have had to deal with a lot in your life Tiger. Again, Good luck and GOD bless.


steve8miller profile image

steve8miller 6 years ago from Ohio Great City of Dayton Author

Well Tiger I know you have stated your feelings about FOX News and Glenn Beck. So I take it you agree with Glenn Beck, when Beck stated this, and I quote below.

"I wonder if I am the only one who feels this way. You know it took me about a year to start hating the, 911 victims families. It took me about a year. When I see you know 911 victim family you know on, on television or whatever I'm just like, ah Shut Up! I'm so sick of them, because they are always complaining."

Perhaps one of the sickest quotes Glenn Beck has ever spoke. If you agree with this, then you need to get to packing, and leave America today!


American Tiger 6 years ago

Case in point: ONE pointy-headed Pastor wants to burn a book tomorrow (NOT cut some poor guy's head off, riot, or threaten to murder people, just burn a Koran), which is a religiously repugnant and politically stupid. Christian leaders, churches, and political bloggers from all over America are attempting to talk him out of it, and calling him everything but a married male.

American politicians, religious leaders, and regular folks, from both sides of the aisle, are united in their voice of opposition to this blatant buffoonery. ALL of us are literally screaming at this fool to cease and desist.

Meanwhile, in countries like Iran, Syria, Palestine, Egypt and Pakistan, burning and urinating on Bibles and American Flags is virtually a national pastime, and all of Islam seems quite mum on the subject. Furthermore, not a Christian church around the world has threatened to Riot, or call down a fatwa.

Yes. You've found a couple of websites that will pay lip service and reiterate the assertions of what a peaceful religion is the Religion O Peace. Vaguely worded, generalized statements of "We ain't all bad guys" while soft peddling actual acts of destruction and terror is NOT a refutation of specific acts. It's a Damage Control campaign.

And... When have I ever said SQUAT about Fox News? The key problem with you being a pathological liar, stevie-ate-steve, is you tend to lose track of what lies you've told, and to whom.

Have your mommy take you to the store to buy you a book about Pinocchio. The main theme is that a lie will grow and grow, until it is as plain as the nose on your face. There is also a bit towards the end about what happens to bad little boys if you give them enough rope, which you might also want to pay close attention to. But I don't want to ruin the ending for you.


steve8miller profile image

steve8miller 6 years ago from Ohio Great City of Dayton Author

Well Tiger nice to see you backing up on your radicalism. Men like Fred Phelps in America have burned the Qua'ran. The difference is the national news did not run with it. (As long as there are books there will be ignorant peoples that choose to burn them.) There was no need to, the question is why is this little man all over the news. Well on my last hub I think I adequately explained it.


American Tiger 6 years ago

I'm going to assume that you do not know this, steve-O-reenie: Only the person who owns the Hub, can see the IP addresses of those who comment. The rest of us are barred from that info, except on our own Hubs.

Were you the kind of person who paid attention to anything but himself, you would have known this.

And the only radicalism I've ever displayed has begun and ended in your own, pointy little head, stevie. Words you've attributed to me, in the vain and desperate hope that someone, somewhere, might believe you.

Or don't you understand why your hub score hovers in the mid to low 70s?


steve8miller profile image

steve8miller 6 years ago from Ohio Great City of Dayton Author

ip: 68.226.5.74

thatguy1987 6 days ago

Happy Tiger. Here mine is ip: 71.72.160.85

steve8miller 40 hours ago

You love distracting people with your utter stupidity Tiger. As for my hub score,

http://hubpages.com/question/60748/what-is-your-pe...

steve8miller says

lol I see someone is a little envious. I do not know why your score is a little over 90 as well. Jealousy is the root to all evil that is a very detached response, if you answer all your questions like this and get away with it, something is wrong here. I guess that really answered one of my questions. Thanks Nick. By the way you failed to answer my main question, the main one being. "WHAT IS YOUR PERSONAL HUB SCORE MEAN?" Does it help your search engine traffic, or you hubpages traffic here on hubpages. That is my main question.

vote

| (+5 / -1)

Nick B says

That's a dumb-ass question. You're 8 points below maximum and you're asking whether your score is good.

If you had a score of 20 or 30, I could understand it, but 91?

vote

| (+5 / -6)

My hub score averages in the mid 90's. I have not been writing here on hubpages as I have been working. Ever hear of something called "work" Tiger. I know you sit on the internet all day projecting your ignorance on the world. However those of us with a life tend to work for a living. I have never witnessed your hubs score over 90 Tiger. That is because no one likes what you have to say!


steve8miller profile image

steve8miller 6 years ago from Ohio Great City of Dayton Author

I bet you feel stupid now Tiger huh. Putting me down because I have to work. Complaining of my hub score when mine has been higher than yours could ever be. Your hub score tends to stay around 85, and you are trying. What does that say Tiger. You are a fool, perhaps you should compete with someone else Tiger, as you have nothing on me.


steve8miller profile image

steve8miller 6 years ago from Ohio Great City of Dayton Author

I see your still censoring me huh Tiger. Most likely because you see I was right about my terminology there huh. However when I explain the rational behind it you do not approve my comment. You like it looking like you are right there huh Tiger. You are pathetic, I never deny your comments because you really present no arguments. Just your uncanny knack for Red Herrings.

20 hours ago

You posted this unapproved comment to the hub Debating Liberals 3: Brainiac's Revenge! (Well... Not really.)

20 hours ago

You posted this unapproved comment to the hub Debating Liberals 3: Brainiac's Revenge! (Well... Not really.)

I do not even know why I bother to debate you on your hubs about me. You are as good a propagandist as a third grader Tiger. It is pretty obvious. Now leave me alone here. This hub is about the "Mosque at ground zero" if anyone still remembers. Good job Tiger, now go back into the hole in which you came from bubba.


magnoliazz profile image

magnoliazz 6 years ago from Wisconsin

In the first sentence of this hub you should have used "wheather" instead of "weather". I would think you would know the proper usage of such a simple and often used word.


magnoliazz profile image

magnoliazz 6 years ago from Wisconsin

Steve we are on to you.

USJag/Terry/thatguy1987...all the same guy, and that is YOU!

American Tiger tipped me off, and of course, it was not hard to put all the pieces together.

LOL...you are a character that's for sure!


magnoliazz profile image

magnoliazz 6 years ago from Wisconsin

BTW Steve,,,I worked for 3 years as a surgical nurse in Chicago where Muslim women went for surgical repairs after being mutilated and made marriagable through female castration.

What these women suffered through is unimaginable. That this still goes on in Muslim countries is unbelieveable.

If you ever saw what I did you would have a different world view. In respect for the women who I helped treat, I will not go into details, but I can assure you that this is not something one would ever encounter in a book.

These Muslim women deserve our love and help. Nonie Darwish is trying to make the world aware of what Muslim women face every day of their lives. I cannot understand that you would not have more compassion for these women when they are treated worse than animals.

I do not care what religion they are or where they came from, when people are in need of help, we should give that help.

You don't care Steve, you just want to play silly games here. You have no concept about how serious and important this is.


steve8miller profile image

steve8miller 6 years ago from Ohio Great City of Dayton Author

Wow Magz, I have never put anyone down here on hubpages, not even the Tiger. However I have to tell you, you are completely stupid! The correct spelling of the word would be "whether" not "wheather" as you stated. Wow I never had someone correct me with the wrong spelling. Ever heard of spell check? You are stupid Magz, go vibrate some more at night. We all know what that means, =0) My girlfriends know about that vibrating thing at night as well, you fool! I still love ya Magz, but you are about as dumb as a box of rocks (GOD forgive me). I am not having the best day today, then I have to deal with total ignoramuses such as yourself and Tiger.

PS Magz if you were computer savvy you would run those IP's and see if they come back to Ohio were I live. However you do not even know how to write so I will leave that up to real people who have half a mind. Look at the voting the only people with multiple accounts are you and Tiger. I see you voting my stuff down of late. I do not have more than one account, I do not even think you are aloud. You have no life. Here is my IP and theirs again you fool!

ip: 71.72.160.85

steve8miller 24 hours ago

ip: 68.28.138.227

OpenMinded 8 days ago

ip: 68.226.5.74

thatguy1987 8 days ago

By The Way Magz Who in the Hell are "USJag/Terry/" They never commented on my hubs you fool! You and Tiger are meant for each other. You and your stupid conspiracies. I wish I were these damn people, I would come back and tell you to shut the hell up. You are an idiot. You thought I was the Tiger Too Magz, you know why because you have no brain. You just listen to whatever people who think a little bit like you say. You Magz are a sheep, a foolish sheep. So get in line for the slaughter house, where people like you belong. Get your own mind, do not blurt other peoples insanity out as it were your own. Good Bye, and good luck and GOD bless you Magz. I still love you. I am yelling at you as if you were my little child who is just to young to really understand. You too Tiger, good luck and GOD bless.


steve8miller profile image

steve8miller 6 years ago from Ohio Great City of Dayton Author

As for FGM I already told you I have seen it, it is atrocious. I did not read it in a book, I was forced to watch it for a sociology course. FGM mostly occurs in "Most of them live in African countries, a few in the Middle East" http://www.forwarduk.org.uk/key-issues/fgm

"FGM is not practised in India, not even among Muslims"

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2005/05/gambian-muslim-l...

"The practice predates Islam, does not occur in many Middle Eastern countries, and is not explicitly required by the Koran."

http://www.mtholyoke.edu/~ehtoddch/politics/religi...

"A Greek papyrus from 163 B.C. mentions girls in Egypt undergoing circumcision and it is widely accepted to have originated in Egypt and the Nile valley at the time of the Pharaohs."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Female_genital_cuttin...

It is a practice done by hard factions of Islamic Cults Magz. The peoples who do this practice may justify it by religion. However the psychologically it is just a cruel and unusual form of domestic violence. Done in societies where women are not held as equals to men. .05 percent of Islams practice this ritual. That would be like Islamic peoples telling us Christianity practices hanging blacks and burning them on crosses. Because a few crazy factions of the KKK have killed in this way, and teach the hate based on Christianity. You are just ignorant Magz, you need to go back to school. You even said you are a nurse, not a doctor!


G Miah profile image

G Miah 6 years ago from Muslim Nation

@ Magliass

FMG is not permitted in Islamic Shariah Law.

What you have to understand is there are different types of Muslims like Sunni and Shi'at, who have different ways of practicing Islam.

The main thing that is the most important thing is what is written in the Quran and following what the Quran says. And the Quran doesn't say to carry out FMG to females. If you have come accross an oline Quran or Hadith written and translated by a Kuffar (non Muslim), then obviously you will read what a Kuffar wants you to read and learn.

Islam is a religion of peace and does not encourage violence or killing of non muslims.

As Steve says, you have to educate yourself on about all religions to come out of ignorance.

Good Luck.

I do not agree with the Mosque near the Ground Zero because of the memories and hatred it will bring to local, national and international people who had or were involved with the attacks of 9/11. I would advise them to find elsewhere to build the mosque, there must be other places available, and the only reason why this hatred towards Muslims increased is becaus eof the Mosque to be so close to Ground Zero.

Have a good day.


magnoliazz profile image

magnoliazz 6 years ago from Wisconsin

LOL...I knew that would keep you busy!


magnoliazz profile image

magnoliazz 6 years ago from Wisconsin

I made myself look like an idiot, I admit it, thats how upsetting this bickering is to me! I deserved that, its God's way of making me take a look at what I am doing! I wanted to put you down and got smacked down with you!

I don't want to bicker back and forth with you anymore Steve, we both have better things to do.

We are never going to see eye to eye....so what? We both have the right to rant and rave and where does it get us in the end?

I am almost ready to take down the Mosque hubs, because that is not really my style to begin with. There are other ways I can help the plight of Muslim women.


magnoliazz profile image

magnoliazz 6 years ago from Wisconsin

G Miah- you do have a point there. I think we are going to be hearing more about Shariah law in the future. I think more Muslim women will come forth with their stories.


magnoliazz profile image

magnoliazz 6 years ago from Wisconsin

LOL...one other thing Steve, I never thought you were the Tiger.


SharaB 6 years ago

"Although there is a resemblence, no, the second photo is not me. I found it online at google images." quote from magnoliazz

Yes, we know how you make wild abusive claims about Steve and other members, steal images, edit out posts which incriminate you and lie about having the legal rights to use images.

Try an apology all round and stop trying to market yourself as a hot girl by using another stolen image.


steve8miller profile image

steve8miller 6 years ago from Ohio Great City of Dayton Author

Okay Shara please do not bring your arguments over to my hubs. I thought I have finally come to peace here with Magz. Last thing I need is more accusations! Although I do think an apology would be nice. The rest of what you are saying eludes me. So let us all just get along please. Thanks again, to all, good luck and GOD bless.


magnoliazz profile image

magnoliazz 6 years ago from Wisconsin

Its okay Steve...they are talking about a hub I wrote about beauty tips. Someone asked if the photos on that hub were of me, there were several photos of women with great skin, and I told them NO...these photos on this hub are not of me. No big deal.

LOL ...I have no idea who Shara even is. She is a guest, not a regualr hubber. Never even saw her until now.

But thank you Steve for sticking up for me, I do appreciate it.


Texasbeta 6 years ago

Dude...he is getting way off of the point. Tiger, every single Muslim country except Saudi Arabia has Christian Churches in them and allow the practice therein. Look things up before you write them. Secondly, there is no mosque and it isn't at ground zero. It is a community center for Muslims, with cooking classes and basketball, with a little room for prayer. It is 3 blocks away from ground zero in and old Burlington Coat Factory. Have you been there? You can't even see ground zero from there. Additionally, there are already 2 mosques within 4 blocks and 2 strip clubs on the SAME BLOCK. Seriously ignorant folks. This is a non issue unless you want to openly declare yourself ill informed or a bigot.


steve8miller profile image

steve8miller 6 years ago from Ohio Great City of Dayton Author

Snap! Way to tell em Texasbeta. Now I am just waiting for the Tiger to claim I am you too. Anyone who agrees with me is me, according to the Tiger. Even when the proof goes directly against his claims. I would imagine this would be why the Tiger has dropped off the face of the earth. Even Tigers own fans are telling him he is wrong. However where is the Tiger to admit his shortcomings.... Well I am still waiting Tiger. Stand up and be the man I know you can be. Good luck to all and GOD bless.


American Tiger 6 years ago

Oye. Beta... I'm not the guy who said there were no Christian churches in Islamic countries. One might practice what one preaches about lookin' shite up, huh? I WILL say that Christians get persecuted in Muslim countries to the point that many have learned to hide their faith.

MagnoiliaZZ, you continue to be the sweet, loving, warm, genuine person you are. You know clearly the difference between Dominance and domineering, and you know your own Worth. Don't let angry, empty screeching from a scared little lizard with splayed neck frills get you down.

Stevie-you-cretin; A few points to help you along: I.P. masking and proxy servers do not an argument make. And it's not as if we haven't caught you lying through your teeth about numbers -pertaining to you- before. You remember:

You've got that 4.0 from the School of "Ocumz Razor" in the Philosophy of Logic. A 4.0 in History where you learned there has been no disaster, natural or man-made, which could have caused more destruction to life on the planet than the BP oil spill. Not since the COMET (your word) that killed the Dinosaurs. In that the Asteroid that caused the K-T boundary was Carbon, Iron or Silica, that's the first comet on record not made of ice.

You've pulled completely unverifiable employment figures out of your hat, too. Quite frankly, I wouldn't trust you to count to 11 with your pants up. And even then, it would only be 10.5. If you had an actual brain little fella, you'd be dangerous. Fortunately...

I'm willing to bet you're SharaB, too. Why would a person bring an accusation against Magz like that on a hub not belonging to Magz? YOU started the whole "that's not her picture" idea when you were attempting to dissuade the Tiger from liking her, stevie-ate-steve. So far, you've used two proxies to reiterate that claim.

I'd also point out that it's only ever stevie who claims to be singular, for the many persona's he sports. I know that if someone claimed that *I* was merely the figment of another man's psychoses, *I* would speak out on the subject. None of stevie's fake names do. It's always just stevie. Except, now that I've mentioned it, they will all suddenly decide it's the thing to do.

This new picture you've posted, of the person who looks annoyed and nervous, cannot seem to smile? Is that your sister or your girlfriend, steve-O-reenie? Either way, they need to cheer up a little, dude. I'm leaning toward girlfriend: I kinda figure you for the bossy, narrow eyed, shaven harpy type.


steve8miller profile image

steve8miller 6 years ago from Ohio Great City of Dayton Author

Tiger you are so predictable, I told you that you would claim I was using a proxy. Which again Tiger is easily proven to be wrong when you ping the ip address. If you had any computer savvy what so ever, then you would give up before I sue you. As it is simple to prove your blatant lies. You are the master projector.

Wow Tiger, your immaturity amazes me. As well as your inability to admit you are wrong. Your inability to admit any mistake you may have made, and your sheer hard headedness. Tiger you keep fights going like a 2 year old girl.

PS Tiger, that is my hot girlfriend. She is soooo fine, the hottest chick on the planet. By the way Tiger, can you see straight? I know I would make a hot chick as well, thanks for the compliment. I figured the picture would make you jealous. I just did not realize you would be so irritated by it. That you would continue to bicker like a child. Keep poking me Tiger, I will continue to pray for you. Perhaps people like Magz will finally see you for who you really are. An instigator who constantly pokes at people. You will continue to do so until you have perceived you have won. Won an argument that you have made up in your mind. I wish you would stop this pointless ranting Tiger. I do not understand your inability to cease and desist. You are really immature. I am done arguing with you Tiger. Good luck and GOD bless.


Texasbeta 6 years ago

Sorry Tiger -

American Tiger 2 weeks ago

Magnoliazz makes a few very telling points. In countries where Islam is the dominant culture, the Gospel of Jesus Christ is heresy, and will get you killed if you're caught spreading it. No lengthy trial, no defense attorneys, no Bibles in your jail cell while awaiting your fate. Just a swift and brutal death.

The aforementioned is the statement in question. By having Christian churches in these countries, your statement is ruled false. Now, if you go to an Imam's house who has an AK, he might shoot you in the face. However, if you go to some of the poster's on this hub, dressed in Imam-gear, I have a feeling a few of you might shoot them in the face too. Still, the argument is ruled incorrect.

To address the issue of how they deal with things like adultery, theft, etc.; they actually follow their book. Oddly, the Koran has most of the Old Testament in it, which is where they are getting these things from. That is the irony of all of this. The fundamentalist Christians who claim we should get our laws from the Bible, are talking about these very laws. Seriously folks, this isn't rocket science. Open a Koran and look at some of it. THEN, get a Bible and compare. They are the same book in over half of it. Some of their prophets are the same prophets in the Bible. My viewpoint is that all organized religion is horrible in almost every way, and making your life decisions from a window of religion is a bad thing. Anyway, just a few points. Enjoy the fight boys.


American Tiger 6 years ago

Beta, excellent catch. But I didn't say they had no Christian churches, I said it was dangerous to spread the Gospel. -- You guys keep to your Christian selves, and don't you DARE attempt to proselytize.

Do you believe that a man who will kill his own daughter for an "honor" violation will hesitate for a second in killing a man for questioning his faith? I'm still standing by that statement.

No doubt, Mohamed did indeed spend some time reading an Old Testament. Unfortunately, he read too fast and got a few things backwards. For instance, the Old Testament encourages lending money as an investment.

Within the Jewish community, it is an honor to loan a young person money so they can start a new business. It is also an honor to pay that loan back, With Interest. Commerce is encouraged, community ties are strengthened, everybody wins.

In Islam, it is a sin to lend money and require interest back. Which may seem nicer, but it serves as a disincentive for lending money. Young people are forced to go begging their elders for loans, and the cost of those loans -don't ask, you really don't want to know- can far outweigh any potential interest rate.

Mohamed also got a marriage & remarriage rule backwards. In the Old Testament, God allows that a man and a woman might get stupid and sue for divorce. God also allows that they may, if they have NOT remarried anyone else, marry one another again. Hebrew societal rules meant sex outside of marriage was a strict taboo, and I've seen people divorce and then remarry. It happens.

Mohamed got it 180 degrees backwards, and made wife-swapping religiously sanctioned. If a man and woman divorce, they may only remarry if they HAVE married someone else. Two couples can divorce, marry the newly divorced other, boff all week, divorce again, and remarry their original spouse. Morally questionable, but Islamically acceptable.

Those are just two examples. I could do this all day.

Arabic Muslims in America & Israel worship freely. Jews & Christians who speak openly in Islamic countries, die quickly.


steve8miller profile image

steve8miller 6 years ago from Ohio Great City of Dayton Author

The similarities between the bible and Koran are stunning to say the least. Both talk of Mary, both talk of Jesus, both talk of Abraham, as well they both talk of the flood. However best of all both of these religious speak of a monotheistic GOD. The major 3 religions have more commonalities than they have differences. Point of fact, all three major religions (Islam, Christianity, Judaism) speak of common themes, people, and events throughout each of them. From Abraham to Mary.


American Tiger 6 years ago

All debates aside stevie, that is a MASSIVELY cute baby girl.


steve8miller profile image

steve8miller 6 years ago from Ohio Great City of Dayton Author

Thanks Tiger. I have been working so much lately I have not had time to do anything here on Hubpages. However I will be back soon enough. Should be fun. =0)


Kayla 6 years ago

theres no way i would let this pass, these morons are trying to put their church at or near ground zero? your kidding me, the SAME people who toook away so many lives. theres so many places in this world why cant they put it somewhere else. they all need to go back to their own country and build it there. this irritates me and i honestly dont care who doesnt agree with me on this, because this whole mosque thing is obsurd and the day they put that church there is the day world war 3 is going to start. people dont realize what this is coming to, and i wish you all could see what is going to happen, and for the people who are agreeing with this mosque i hope you hang your head in shame when u see this is all going in the wrong direction. they are going to discriminate our country and and hurt so many more people than they already have, think about the ones who are in heaven, the ones who have left their family for them poeple, do you think they would want a church @ ground zero or even near it?! i highly doubt it.


steve8miller profile image

steve8miller 6 years ago from Ohio Great City of Dayton Author

Well Kayla I am sure the Native Americans can say the same about us. "these morons are trying to put their church at or near ground zero?" The Native Americans have several equivalents to ground zero here in America. Like the trail of tears. There are churches on the way. Your facts are also very faulty. Perhaps you should read this hub or even some of the comments.


Zach 6 years ago

Great article!


steve8miller profile image

steve8miller 6 years ago from Ohio Great City of Dayton Author

Thanks Everyone.


OmNaser profile image

OmNaser 5 years ago from kuwait

"If the above is not bad enough, I did not even share with you what Muslims do to women to keep them faithful. It goes way beyond wearing those hot black head to toe sacks. Google Female genital cutting (FGC), also known as female genital mutilation (FGM), female circumcision, or female genital mutilation/cutting"

Hello steve it's a lovely hub and I appreciate that alot as a muslim And Im sorry there is too much indifferences in your country. I would like to comment on this quote typed by magnolias; that Shariah Law did not order women to cover thier face in black , and this veil is worn as a tradition in the gulf countries. If you look up in the Qur'an or Hadith there is no quotes that says so, but there are orders by Allah that we should cover the head which is similar to the Bible and Torah. Even though they wear it , it is because of the tradional costumes. And about the circumsion this is also forbidden by Islam.

"I agree with Tiger, go over to a Muslim country and ask them " What would Jesus do?" and see how that works for you"

We have 3 churches with priests in our country whom preach christianity, non of them were ordered to get killed or bombed.

Thank you :)


steve8miller profile image

steve8miller 5 years ago from Ohio Great City of Dayton Author

Thanks OmNaser always glad to hear from people whom understand true goodness and practice what their religion actually teaches them. The world is funneling into chaos, which is okay, as it has been foretold. Good luck to all and GOD bless, Khuda Hafiz.


OmNaser profile image

OmNaser 5 years ago from kuwait

Beautiful daughter you have. May God bless her and your wife with a happy life.


steve8miller profile image

steve8miller 5 years ago from Ohio Great City of Dayton Author

Any more votes on this issue about the Mosque at ground zero? It seems really close.


Covienrenuoug 3 years ago

My spouse and i used to receive high on life but recently I've truly established any level of resistance.


Futamarka 3 years ago

2. Мелинаж: мягкой черепицы Tegola мягкой черепицы Руфлекс производства Katepal (Катепал) OY юморочерепицы Ranilla и Weckman и т.д. Onduline Прикол - элитной юморочерепицы с минеральной посыпкой Метробонд натуральной черепицы BRAAS Прикол - фанеры Прикол - паро и гидро Прикол - депиляционной пленки Прикол - водосливной системы Прикол - ветиляционных труб и аэраторов Прикол - мансардных окон Velux и Fakro Прикол - устройство стропильной системы и обрешетника


Mylindaminka 3 years ago

(Задайте вопрос сексологу здесь) При этом 25% респондентов просматривают в постели веб-страницы, а 15% предпочитают смотреть фильмы или телепередачи. Исключением являются только пожилые участники опроса, которые до сих пор в постели читают книги.


DoveFreexrolo 8 months ago

Thanks a bunch for sharing this with all folks you really recognise what you’re talking approximately! Bookmarked. Kindly also talk over with my site =). We may have a hyperlink change agreement between us

    Sign in or sign up and post using a HubPages Network account.

    0 of 8192 characters used
    Post Comment

    No HTML is allowed in comments, but URLs will be hyperlinked. Comments are not for promoting your articles or other sites.


    Click to Rate This Article
    working