Does the GOP Nominee for President, Donald Trump, Have a Mental Illness?

Mental Illness and the Presidency

THIS, OF COURSE, IS A VERY SERIOUS AND SENSITIVE SUBJECT. If a person is not mentally capable of performing the duties of the Office of the Presidency in a consistent, coherent, thoughtful, balanced, calm manner that won't endanger the national security of America, then the People need to know. While I may have made fun of President Bush's mental acumen, it was never serious and I have never questioned any candidates mental stability as it relates to performing the job in the past; and that would include people like Senator Cruz whose politics I find abominable. There have been good people running for office that have been destroyed because of careless, pointless claims by the opposition that they are unfit for the job because of past mental issues, mainly depression. So I don't take what follows lightly, but the stakes are much too high not to bring it up.

The Atlantic did a wonderful piece on Donald Trump that fits right with the hub, The Mind of Donald Trump

Anti-Social Personality Disorder

THIS IS THE BROAD CATEGORY OF MENTAL ILLNESS which I think might apply to Donald Trump. I am not a psychologist or psychiatrist; I am not a medical professional in any shape or form. What I am is a concerned citizen who can read, think, reason, and analyze information. In fact, my background is in economic and cost analysis which means collecting information processing it and drawing reasoned conclusions from it is what I did for work. I feel that qualifies me to identify relevant information regarding symptoms of mental disease as well as well documented behavior and present the two side-by-side for the reader to draw their own conclusions.

Any specific mental illness, like every other feature of human life, has symptoms and characteristics spread over a continuum. Take depression; of which I am personally familiar with. You can be temporarily depressed, like over the loss of a loved one; it is very real and may even express itself outwardly; but it will almost always go away. Then there may be more chronic depression which extends over time which may have impact ones ability to function normally, or at least not at full capacity (that was me for about 8 months sixteen years ago). Depression can also worsen into what I will call clinical depression requiring serious intervention by professionals and will probably result in serious deterioration in the quality of ones life, possibly leading to suicide. It would be my opinion that is this one of the few conditions that would make one unfit to run the country is the last one; or maybe more serious forms of the second example. I effectively and successfully held down a fairly high profile, somewhat stressful job during those eight miserable months; but I sure didn't want to.

That is what I mean by the continuum. While all examples are forms of a mental illness, only the most extreme versions make one unfit, in fact in some cases downright dangerous, to place the kind of responsibility required for the President of the United States.

So, What Do We Observe of Donald Trump?

BEFORE GETTING INTO THE SPECIFICS OF WHAT APPEARS TO ME TO BE troubling Donald Trump, let me describe in some detail the outward behavior I see which has been confirmed by many others.

  1. Donald Trump is an over-the-top, larger-than-life character
  2. He brags about himself every chance he gets; not just normal self-promotion, but promotion to an excess
  3. Their isn't a speech he gives where he doesn't come across as conceited
  4. By looking at his life style he appeas to be very pretentious, he wants you to know he is wealthy and he brags about it.
  5. There is hardly a time when speaking to the public that he doesn't belittle somebody, often several somebodies
  6. He clearly cannot take the tiniest of criticisms without lashing out in great verbal assaults, Hillary was quite right when she famously observed that Trump "can be baited by a tweet".
  7. He obviously thinks he is more important than anybody else
  8. There is no question about his desire to be admired
  9. He has a long, recorded history of taking unfair advantage of others to get what he wants
  10. He repeatedly claims how great he is, that nobody is a good has him clearly demonstrates is oversized egos.
  11. His making fun of a disabled reporter or denigrating the Kahn Gold Family strongly.indicates a distinct inability to recognize the needs of others or feel empathy.
  12. Can anyone doubt he constantly behaves in a haughty and arrogant manner?
  13. He is charming, self-assured, engaging, slick, and verbally facile; he is not afraid to say anything, no matter how inappropriate or insulting
  14. At his rallies he sometimes looks to be a great listener and easily fakes empathy while zeroing in on his targets’ dreams and vulnerabilities, to be able to manipulate them better. An example of this is when he recently mollified a mother at a rally whose baby was crying baby by saying "he loves babies ... don't worry. Then two minutes later he tells the mother he was just kidding and "get the baby out of here" or some such words.
  15. "Only I can do it" is an example of his grandiose self-worth
  16. Politifact and other rating agencies have found that more than 50% of his claims are lies, (personally I think it is higher) many of them bald-faced lies. He is, in my opinion, a pathological liar.
  17. I have seen no indication what so ever that he feels any guilt for his outlandish behavior
  18. At least in one regard he exhibits, at least in public, a limited range or depth of feelings; interpersonal coldness in spite of signs of open gregariousness and superficial warmth.
  19. Almost every time I seem him he appears irritability, annoyed, inpatient, aggressive, threatening (at least verbally), verbally abusive, unable to control his anger. and acting hastily (Trump acting thoughtfully, haven't see it yet.)
  20. Donald Trump has yet to accept responsibility for anything wrong he has done while campaigning; he always blames someone else.
  21. Even with what everybody else knows are serious missteps and that have caused him political harm, he has almost without exception, failed to learn from it.
  22. Donald Trump appears to remain calm and to be immune from anxiety and worry that would be normal for people in disturbing situations. He easily maintains his poise and confidence in situations when you and I would be embarrassed, confused or insecure,
  23. Trump is one of the most impulsive people I have ever seen, at least in campaign mode

The Great, The Only, The Donald

Source

Let's Leave It Here For the Moment

I THOUGHT IT WOULD BE FUN, if I can get your participation in the poll below to see 1) how correct or incorrect I am and 2) what y'all, together, think his real characteristics are. Above are 23 different impressions I have of Donald Trump that I have gained over the course of this election plus what I have seen of him in his past life. What I am curious about, and which will help me finish this hub, is how many of those 23 you AGREE with.

Now, each of you will agree or disagree with different sets of those I have listed, but it is the total each of you come up with that is important to the rest of this hub. Once I see where this is going, then I can continue on and let you know how your votes guide what I write next.

HOW MUCH ARE WE IN AGREEMENT

Simply Count the Number of Statements I Made That You Think Describe Donald Trump?

See results without voting

Continuing the Hub (9/19/16)

HAVING WAITED LONG ENOUGH FOR A FEW VOTES TO COME IN (!!), it is time to move on with the rest of this hub and get into the meat of it.

At the moment, 1 person thinks Trump matches 0 - 9% of the choices, 1 thinks he matches 13 - 22% of my observations; 1 more thinks he matches between 26 and 39%; while the remaining 8 thinks Trump fits between 86 to 100%.

Assuming from Demographic Survey #1 that 22% if the 11 respondents (2.4) are self identified Liberals, the remaining 5.6 people who decided fit most of the characterizations are unbiased moderates or something other than Right, Left, or Independent. The 3 who found that I didn't describe Trump well are also unbiased. So, at least at this point, I concluded that unbiased voters agree with my assessment.

OK then, what does my assessment signify?

Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD)

EARLIER I GAVE A SECTION THE TITLE OF Anti-social Personality Disorder, APD for short. This one is titled Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD). APD and NPD are two related yet distinct disorders. Other names for APD are Psychopathic PD and Sociopathic PD; APD is the latest incarnation. Also know that APD is much more sinister than NPD. That said, it is my opinion that Donald A. Trump certainly suffers from NPD but also exhibits some of APD's less violent characteristics.

The Table below details the basic symptoms from the DSM IV, the psychiatrist's bible to mental illness.

DEMOGRAPHIC SURVEY #1

To Help Gauge the Results From the First Poll; Please Let Me Know Where You Stand Politically

See results without voting

© 2016 My Esoteric

More by this Author


50 comments

Randy Godwin profile image

Randy Godwin 4 months ago from Southern Georgia

No doubt the Donald has problems. Are some of them mental? Once again, no doubt. I'd wager the majority of his followers voted for Dubya twice and for the McCain/Palin ticket as well. I have no respect for the opinions of those who did so and do not care for their input on any presidential candidate they pull for. As far as I'm concerned, they're not capable of making the correct choice.

Enjoyed the hub!


My Esoteric profile image

My Esoteric 4 months ago from Keystone Heights, FL Author

In my opinion, Trump is in a class by himself. Where the others you mention clearly are capable of running the country, maybe not the way you and I want, but they did (or could) rule in a sane manner. Thank you for reading and commenting, Randy.


Old Poolman profile image

Old Poolman 4 months ago from Rural Arizona

To some degree, all of us have mental problems to varying degrees. I'm not even sure who it was that drew the line between sane and insane, or what criteria they used to draw that line.

I am of the opinion that most who would even consider taking the job of POTUS must be a little off balance to even consider such a job.

We supposedly have a good check and balance system in place to prevent drastic actions by our POTUS, but I'm not sure they are working the way they were designed to work.

There is also the possibility of us electing someone who appears to be perfectly sane by today's standards, and due to the constant pressures and frustrations of the job as POTUS they cross that fuzzy line and join the ranks of the insane.

But you are absolutely correct that there is a huge risk in putting someone into this most powerful position who could be mentally unbalanced.

I would be in favor of having a "probationary period" for all of our Politicians where they could be swiftly and easily removed from office if they become a serious threat.

No matter who wins the election we can only hope they remain on the sane side of the line for their entire term in office.


Randy Godwin profile image

Randy Godwin 4 months ago from Southern Georgia

I agree with you Mike about anyone having to be a bit off to want to be president, but Trump has taken it to a new level with his rhetoric and actions, especially his seemingly idiotic treatment of his own party members. It's like he really doesn't want the job after all. Go figure!


Old Poolman profile image

Old Poolman 4 months ago from Rural Arizona

Randy - I have seen many elections in my lifetime, but none as weird as this one. It would seem we are once again forced to make a decision on the lesser of the evils before we cast our ballots.

Perhaps the job of POTUS has become so difficult and impossible that no sane person would even consider the job?


Randy Godwin profile image

Randy Godwin 4 months ago from Southern Georgia

I too think this is the craziest election on record, Mike. Although Hillary wasn't my first choice as a nominee I simply cannot abide Trump's treatment of other people. If he acted in the same manner as POTUS we'd be in a heap of trouble.


Mel Carriere profile image

Mel Carriere 4 months ago from San Diego California

I would add that he is petulant. Just this morning I heard that Trump announced he is "not ready" to endorse Ryan and McCain in their respective campaigns, basically echoing the language Ryan and McCain used before eventually endorsing Trump. Whether Ryan and McCain should be endorsed is beside the point - what I am saying is that in doing this Donald is acting like a spoiled child. Do we want a spoiled child with his finger on the button? Great work.


Old Poolman profile image

Old Poolman 4 months ago from Rural Arizona

So our choices are now between a spoiled child and a chronic liar. What ever happened to all the really great people who used to run for this job and get nominated?

Perhaps the job of POTUS is just not as appealing as it used to be and we are now scraping the bottom of the barrel for candidates?

There were others running that in my opinion were far more qualified for the job than either of the two who made it through the cut.

Just saying we could have done better.


MizBejabbers profile image

MizBejabbers 4 months ago

The only thing I would disagree with is the partial statement in No. 13 "He is charming", NOT! Perhaps he comes across that way to some people, but he makes me want to throw up. At first I thought he was amusing, but not so now. We've had a couple of presidents within the last 30 or so years who have had mental impairments, Reagan had Alztheimer's Disease, and Bush II was an alcoholic who was reported to be on antabuse, but they were well-liked and both seemed to have been kept under control, when needed, by a strong Republican Party. Today the party is in shambles, and there is doubt that they could exercise control over such a malignant narcissist. With so many anti-Hillary hubs and Q&A being published HubPages, I'm glad you are speaking out. This website seems to be turning into a religious fundamentalist right-wing website, and I am wondering if there are those of us who should move on and let them have it.


Larry Rankin profile image

Larry Rankin 4 months ago from Oklahoma

Wonderful analysis. When we use a term like mental illness it all depends how we define it.

I think most political figures, good or bad, could be labeled as having some mental instability. The same is true of most humans.

I understand your argument, and as much as I dislike Trump and find his behaviors bizarre, I don't think he is the kind of mentally ill that would exclude him from the presidency.


My Esoteric profile image

My Esoteric 4 months ago from Keystone Heights, FL Author

Thank you everybody for reading this hub, commenting, and starting a good conversation on the subject.

Yes, some of our POTUS' have had mental issues, none so bad as to stop being effective (unless Reagan's Alzheimer was impairing him at the end; some say it was.) However, Abraham Lincoln had severe bouts with depression (who could blame him) and both Kennedy and Nixon were on anxiety drugs.

I know many people think Clinton is an inveterate liar (and untrustworthy), but I don't see it that way. Does Hillary lie, stretch the truth, exaggerate, twist facts? Yes she does. But I have watched politics and politicians nigh on 58 years (I got interested in politics at 10) and I can't tell a significant difference between Hillary and other politicians.

There are three reasons this label has stuck with her.

- One is is because she is a wonk and wonks cant' talk in sound-bites, they speak with more substance than many people can understand or absorb, hence they don't trust what she is saying is the truth.

- The Right has spent tens of millions of dollars over the last 30 years trying to convince the world the Clinton's are liars and untrustworthy ... advertising works.

- Clinton's own demeanor is her own worst enemy.


Frasermalaney 4 months ago

Going back to the orginal question. Perhaps the question should be: Do ALL politicians have some form of mental illness? It's a hard question to answer because of the unique pressures of the role. There's also a lack of a control sample which makes it hard to tell what is "normal" behavior under such circumstances. Perhaps eccentricity is a normal response. I think Americans need to ask themselves: Is this form of eccentricity good for America? Is it good for the world?


Jay C OBrien profile image

Jay C OBrien 4 months ago from Houston, TX USA

At last there is someone who sees what I see, Mental Illness in politicians. Because I do not follow the speeches of Trump, I cannot take the poll. I am a proponent of having our elected leaders and candidates reviewed by the mental health community. This should have been done with Hitler based on a Mental Health Warrant. I invite you to read some of my articles concerning mental illness and leaders, "What do we know about the Alamo," "Patrick Henry and Mental Health," and more.


Ewent profile image

Ewent 4 months ago from Old Bridge, New Jersey

Our NJ media this day (8/4/2016) are reporting that The Donald is closing the Trump Taj Mahal after Labor Day. This is just the first of Trump's house of cards to fall.

First of all Donald Trump is NOT now nor ever has been a politician. Anyone with a degree in Political Science knows that. That he rose to become a Republican candidate for the presidency is entirely the fault of a bunch of middle aged Tea Party attack dogs who thought loud mouths and no real substantiation would get past educated, older Americans.

So now we are labeling Trump insane? Really? Anyone who has EVER worked with CEOs knows most of them believe they are the ultimate voice of power and control of the entire country. They use their wealth like an AR-15.

And before the narrowest minds try to impress the rest of the sane world that WE, not they, are the ones who are insane, it is not working.

All anyone has to do to prove what insanity really is, is to walk into any mental institution and you see the same mindsets of the control freaks of the world.

There is a distinct problem with SOME, not all, of today's politicians. Many live in states where the state government has total control over education spending. Which basically means little or none. So you get extremists like Ryan, McConnell, Issa, Walker, Gowdy, Cotton and Chaffetz, who believe all we have to do is "obey."

Now, of course, no senior citizen intends to do that for a very good reason: We do not need some Junior Johnny Jump up Corporate Sidling Attack Dog to make decisions for us.

I've predicted for the past 3 months that Trump would be gone by August. Now that the Taj is closing, his house of cards will collapse thanks to his big mouth. No self-respecting business man in the entire world will ever trust him now.

In a strange way, The Donald typifies the rise of fall of the American Robber Barons of Neoconservatism.


babjik 4 months ago

Its a part of politics, not relates to mental or illness.


couturepopcafe 4 months ago

This is a cute survey, though wildly inaccurate with ambiguous questions. I could only agree with 6 and one questionable 7 because you can't possible claim to know what "everybody" is thinking, you can't possibly make assumptions about arrogance, deceitfulness, pretentiousness, impulsiveness or what's "obvious" to anyone. A few of the questions speak to what must be your own disbelief that there can be anyone with his capabilities. One cannot assume that a "larger than life" personality is wrong or in some way a bad thing, though it does not preclude that. Without fully understanding the mind of the man, can anyone assume he is arrogant, pretentious, or any of the other attributes you ascribe to him? They say we are a reflection of those around us. His family are all very well-spoken and well mannered. They are a reflection of who he is at home, so that supports what I believe is his spiritual foundation. Look past what you see as arrogant and see confidence; past pretentiousness and see a wealthy man who lives well and doesn't allow his family to become jaded; past what you see as impulsiveness and see a clear thinking who is possibly many step ahead of most, also not necessarily bad. You could also be jealous of all of that. I'm just sayin'...


emge profile image

emge 4 months ago from Abu Dhabi

I am really surprised at this post and also the writeups in the intelligentsia. All the arguments are simply to be dismissed. I hope the writer and others who keep criticizing Donald are aware that half of the US, supports Donald and that means that half is lunatic. This is a poor comment on American democracy.


Randy Godwin profile image

Randy Godwin 4 months ago from Southern Georgia

Wow! If the Taj goes bust there'll probably be a lot of people left holding the bag if Trump's past business deals are any indication.


Randy Godwin profile image

Randy Godwin 4 months ago from Southern Georgia

enge, you are free to dismiss everything in this comment section if you so choose. Ain't it great to be an American? You do live in America, right? :)


Randy Godwin profile image

Randy Godwin 4 months ago from Southern Georgia

couturepop--actions speak louder than words sometimes. I doubt seriously Trump spent lots of time with his children or gave them a sense of their self worth. If he is so admired by his kids then why aren't they just as obnoxious and arrogant as he certainly appears to be?


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 4 months ago from Beautiful Upstate New York

My Esoteric......I agreed with all of your points. It's rather difficult to disagree, not to mention plain old foolish. The man, his behavior, words and attitudes speak for themselves. I found him an arrogant, rude, blow hard long before he jumped into the race......a race he clearly does not belong in, does not qualify for and has ultimately transformed into a circus. However, how he got to where he is now speaks loudly of the American voter and our complete disgust at this point and feeling of helplessness.

I am an Independent...always have been, always will be. I am not and could never be devoted to and loyal to a "party" to the point of insanity or ignoring facts & common sense.

I would also NEVER consider voting for the morally bankrupt, power-hungry, phony as a 3 dollar bill, LIAR of the century.....Hillary Clinton. That woman belongs in one place and one place only. Prison.

I'm totally disgusted and ashamed of finding ourselves with 2 of the worst choices EVER in the history of our country.

I hear rumors the Right may be planning as "intervention." I hope one of them resembles God......because I see no hope without him!


Randy Godwin profile image

Randy Godwin 4 months ago from Southern Georgia

My good friend Paula, why should Hillary be in prison? I'm not aware of anything--other than wild speculation--she's been convicted of to date. Are we now a country where one is guilty until proven innocent?

Good to see you, by the way. :)


Old Poolman profile image

Old Poolman 4 months ago from Rural Arizona

fpherj48 - I too am very disappointed that once again we are forced to choose between the lesser of the evils when we cast our ballots.

There were some fairly good candidates early in the race, but now the whole election cycle is based solely on money. The candidate with the most money usually wins the election.

I truly wish we could give them all exactly the same amount of money and let them run strictly on their own merits rather than their wallets.


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fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 4 months ago from Beautiful Upstate New York

Randy (yes we are friends & so I'll be calm & polite)....I'll try to do my best to explain my comment about where I feel Hillary belongs.

If memory serves me well, the expression "Right Wing Conspiracy"was first coined publicly by Hillary herself back when she was defending her philandering, serial cheater/rapist hubby. The rest of that story is factual, documented history that needs no repeating here. What is clear is that Hillary's conspiracy comment was blown to bits.

There is the fact that she was fired from her lawyer position with the Rose law firm for illegal, unethical activities (re-searchable truth), Far too many vital documents have disappeared into thin air which were highly detrimental to her, bill and their dealings. Travelgate.? The name Vince Foster is one that has hung over the Clinton's head forever and continues to be a serious threat to them if investigated fully and properly by independent agencies.

Hillary's list of blatant and egregious lies has got to be the longest in History of any other crooked politician, present or past. She was subjected to sniper fire? No. She is not a racist but actually an advocate for black America? Absolutely not. Randy, not a mere handful, but HUNDREDS upon Hundreds of individuals (from all parties and every walk of life have divulged her constant use of the "N" word and her utter disdain for blacks.) The Clinton Foundation has been proven numerous times to be a complete fraud and basically a means for the Clinton's to take in money for THEMSELVES . Accepting millions from the Arabs? How could they? WHY would they?

Before I go on, yes, of course I'm aware some of what I'm saying are not literally "crimes" or prison-worthy.....some are. I'm far from done.

She out and out lied in the faces of the families of Benghazi. To make matters worse and truly insult these people, she DENIED what she said to them. Really, Randy? Were all those people wrong about what she said? Are all of them deaf? and only Hillary is telling the truth? Very highly unlikely!....Her email scandal is so outrageous it might even be comical if not so serious. She was found not to be indictable. What a joke and slap in the face to the American people. OK, fine, was it a Right Wing Conspiracy that she LIE through every minute of every investigation? Comey HAD to admit she was "not truthful" numerous times. When I went to school, "not truthful" meant you fucking LIED.

Comey has destroyed his reputation and lost respect.....people can come to their own conclusions. Lying to the FBI is a crime.

So, I'll concede at this point that using the word "prison" was a refection of my total disgust and anger with Hillary. If I went back to clean it up, I guess I'd say she needs to go HOME and sit on the porch, shut up and stay the hell out of politics. The woman makes my skin crawl simply based on her complete moral bankruptcy. her screeching, abrasive voice, her unpleasant demeanor, lack of personality and PISS POOR taste in husbands!AND SHE LIES SIMPLY BECAUSE TELLING THE TRUTH HAS NEVER OCCURRED TO THE WOMAN!.......At the end of the day, Randy, when she wins the election, I have to accept the decision of my fellow-Americans, get used to it and try my very best to support our current Administration. Despite my opinions and choices, my first responsibility is to our Nation. Peace, Paula


My Esoteric profile image

My Esoteric 4 months ago from Keystone Heights, FL Author

Thanks for your comment and observation, Frasermalaney . I would think there is enough biographical data out there on almost every president from Washington onward to make fairly educated guesses as to whether any mental issues interfered with their conduct. I think Nixon is a good example; what would appear to be out of the norm paranoia seem to negatively affect him in his second term.

But the DMS - 5 (I think it is) lays out reasonably good guideposts for somebody (who knows, maybe they already have) answered the question you put forward.


My Esoteric profile image

My Esoteric 4 months ago from Keystone Heights, FL Author

Thanks for reading and commenting Jay. I look forward to reading your Hubs, should prove interesting

I appreciate you reading this hub and giving us your opinion. A couple of notes on a couple of things you said. To be fair, Trump doesn't own the Taj anymore; he drove it into bankruptcy a few years ago. His friend Carl Ichan bought it and he is the one closing it amid a big strike; 3,000 jobs gone. Also, read the book Good to Great by Jim Collins; it might mitigate your extreme views on CEOs.

babjik, you are right, but what we are talking about is behavior way outside the norm, or at least the way I see it. Thanks for reading.


My Esoteric profile image

My Esoteric 4 months ago from Keystone Heights, FL Author

I really appreciate your taking my poll and you are giving me exactly what I am looking for, couturepopcafe. There is no doubt every one of those 23 observations are through my biased lens; hence the poll. I do agree that a single, non-professional can rely on what they perceive about a person as the be-all-end-all, again, that is why I have the poll. I DO disagree, however, that when many people perceive the same thing, exhibiting arrogance for example, then the likelihood of that being true goes up. Now that can be biased by the political leaning of the responder and that is why I have my Demographics poll. Looking at the ratio of Left, Right, and in the middle and comparing it to the distribution of answers to the main poll, allows me to dampen the effect of bias in the final results.


My Esoteric profile image

My Esoteric 4 months ago from Keystone Heights, FL Author

Thank you for your comment, emge. People who support Trump do it for many reasons, only one of which is that they like what he stands for. But at best, a little less than 40% of Americans say they support Trump. I would guess a large portion of those is because they HATE Hillary. So that leaves basically the much smaller Right-wing extremists who actually support Trump for Trump.

To the rest of you, thank you for reading, writing, and VOTING.


Jay C OBrien profile image

Jay C OBrien 4 months ago from Houston, TX USA

From above:

"Thanks for reading and commenting Jay. I look forward to reading your Hubs, should prove interesting

I appreciate you reading this hub and giving us your opinion. A couple of notes on a couple of things you said. To be fair, Trump doesn't own the Taj anymore; he drove it into bankruptcy a few years ago. His friend Carl Ichan bought it and he is the one closing it amid a big strike; 3,000 jobs gone. Also, read the book Good to Great by Jim Collins; it might mitigate your extreme views on CEOs."

The second paragraph is Not from me.


Randy Godwin profile image

Randy Godwin 4 months ago from Southern Georgia

I do indeed understand your frustration with Hillary, after all the Right has spent literally millions trying to get something on her ever since Obama won the presidency. Remember when some of them claimed Bill could have gotten Ben Laudin and didn't?

You didn't answer if people should be considered guilty on just what people think and not what the facts show. And Comeny was perfectly acceptable to the Right because he had worked for both parties and was highly respect by both sides of the aisle until he gave the results of his investigation of Hillary.

Was there this much outrage from the right when then AG Alberto Gonzalez refused to serve a summons to Bush and Chaney to come before Congress and testify about the Iraq War and Haliburton? Did you feel outrage at that subversion of justice? Enquiring minds want to know. :)


My Esoteric profile image

My Esoteric 4 months ago from Keystone Heights, FL Author

fpherj48, Regarding your comment about Hillary "lying" to some of the families of the Benghazi victims. There is NO recording of the comments back and forth between the families, Obama, and Clinton that day.

What do we actually have?

-- Patricia Smith, mother of information officer Sean Smith, told CNN that National Security Adviser Susan Rice [not Hillary] "talked to me personally, and she said this is the way it was. It was because of this film that came out."

-- Speaking at a House hearing about a year later, Smith said that [specifically] Clinton, President Barack Obama, Rice "and others", ALL individually told her the attack stemmed from the video." {to be clear, she testified that multiple people told her the exact same story}

-- Then Smith tells Fox News that "She lies. Very simple. She is not telling the truth,"

-- Then there is Charles Woods, father of CIA operative Tyrone Woods, who told Glenn Beck that "Clinton said to him, 'We will make sure that the person who made that film is arrested and prosecuted.' " (This makes sense given the amount of violence it created in other parts of the world.)

-- But Woods also noted in his diary that "I gave Hillary a hug and shook her hand. And she said we are going to have the filmmaker arrested who was responsible for the death of my son,"

-- Kate Quigley, sister of CIA operative Glen Doherty, said Clinton mentioned protests but not a video. She spoke to my family about how sad we should feel for the Libyan people because they are uneducated, and that breeds fear, which breeds violence, and leads to a protest," Quigley said, adding that Clinton chose to "perpetuate what she knew was untrue."

Then there is the following:

-- Jan Stevens, father of Ambassador Chris Stevens, told PolitiFact that the first time he heard anything about a video was when the Washington Post Fact Checker called him with a similar question. He confirmed that he heard "nothing whatsoever" about a video from Clinton

-- Tyrone Woods’ mother, Cheryl Bennett, said that when she spoke with Clinton, she "never heard the word ‘video’ mentioned. That’s just a fact."

-- Bennett also said that the "motivation behind the attack didn’t come up in her brief interaction with Clinton."

-- Also, Barbara Doherty, Glen Doherty’s mother, didn’t recall talking with Clinton about a video and said she remembered Clinton as being sincere and crying, according to the Washington Post.

The above is what Politifact was able to find out from the family members that were there.

-- Clinton of course denies saying anything about a video in her private conversations with the family members. This is supported by Barbara Doherty, Cheryl Bennett, and Jan Stevens; while Patricia Smith, Charles Woods, and Kate Quigley contradict Clinton; 4 says Clinton didn't say anything about the videos and 3 said she did ...

HARDLY convincing evidence, is it?

Now, what did Hillary Clinton say contemporaneously to this meeting?

-- "This has been a difficult week for the State Department and for our country," she said. "We’ve seen the heavy assault on our post in Benghazi that took the lives of those brave men. We’ve seen rage and violence directed at American embassies over an awful Internet video that we had nothing to do with."

Here Clinton mentions the video but does not say it was responsible for the Benghazi attacks.

Then when was it absolutely known the Benghazi was a terrorist attack except in the minds of Obama and Clinton haters. The answer is, it was known for certain the day AFTER the meeting between Clinton and the families; according to numerous GOP investigations.

Also, the same day of the meeting, the NY Times reported "that information available to the White House at the time suggested there were protests in Benghazi spurred by those in Cairo, and Islamic extremists took advantage of the situation and began the attack.

Now, what does another family member say about all this?

-- Anne Stevens, Ambassador Cris Stevens' sister, when asked whether she felt her brother's death had been politicized," Stevens was adamant when she said

"Yes! Definitely politicized. Every report I read that mentions him specifically has a political bent, an accusatory bent. One point that seems to be brought up again and again is the accusation that the attack was a response to the video. I could understand why that conclusion would be made, because it was right after the attack on the U.S. Embassy in Egypt. But, frankly, it doesn’t matter that that was the thinking, that night, about why the attack occurred. It’s irrelevant to bring that up again and again. It is done purely for political reasons."

So, what am I to make of your claim, fpherj48, that "She out and out lied in the faces of the families of Benghazi. To make matters worse and truly insult these people, she DENIED what she said to them. Really, Randy? Were all those people wrong about what she said? Are all of them deaf? and only Hillary is telling the truth? Very highly unlikely!....Her email scandal is so outrageous it might even be comical if not so serious. She was found not to be indictable. What a joke and slap in the face to the American people. OK, fine, was it a Right Wing Conspiracy that she LIE through every minute of every investigation? Comey HAD to admit she was "not truthful" numerous times. When I went to school, "not truthful" meant you fucking LIED."

I ask you, were the family members who said SHE DID NOT say anything about the videos wrong?


My Esoteric profile image

My Esoteric 4 months ago from Keystone Heights, FL Author

Ooops, sorry Jay, that was Ewent


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 4 months ago from Beautiful Upstate New York

Randy, I absolutely am outraged at the subversion of justice for Bush & Cheney. I have said numerous times that Vincent Bugliosi's book, "The Prosecution of George W. Bush for Murder," should be a must-read by every American citizen.

Party affiliation does not enter into my thought process nor opinions, Randy~ never has, never will. A crooked, lying, manipulative, greedy & power-hungry person is my main aversion. And I do not trust nor believe a one of them. The sad and hard core fact of reality is, I feel what we as American voters have is the unfair struggle to dig until we find whom we "think" may be the least corrupt. This time? We don't even have that! Trump & Clinton are equally disgraceful & dangerous.

I do not believe a Right wing conspiracy has created the monster that is Hillary. She has accomplished her shameful image all on her own. Trump? He's a damned joke. Two words sum up my conclusion for 2016. We're screwed.


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 4 months ago from Beautiful Upstate New York

My Esoteric.....I see you put much time & effort into your comment to me. This is curious since your very first words were that "there is no recording of the conversations in question"......then you proceed to go on and on as to who said what, when, how and to whom.

All due respect sir, you could have saved your energy. I have researched this particular topic in every way possible, to include actually communicating with one of the victim's family members. I'm afraid there is nothing that can convince me that Hillary did not LIE BOLD-FACED to the grieving families. Hillary is quite simply incapable of speaking any truths, EVER, about anything. And just for the record, Trump is NO better.


My Esoteric profile image

My Esoteric 4 months ago from Keystone Heights, FL Author

I believe in presenting the evidence which lead to my conclusions rather then simply hyperbolically stating them.

You apparently missed the Politifact article who interviewed the six people I listed. No matter how much you hate Clinton, the FACT is, 3 of the family members reported that she DID mention the video to EVERYBODY and 3 of the family members reported the Clinton DID NOT mention the video.

Obviously you MUST call the 3 family members who disagree with your hypothesis liars in order for your claims to hold any water at all. Are you calling them LIARS?

Are you calling the sister of the Ambassador a LIAR as well, in order to state your theory in just stringent terms? Are you calling her a LIAR as well, fpherj48?

Then we have HRCs actual, recorded statement to the public which also destroys your claims.

That is why I spent so much time and effort to show everybody else that you are WRONG.


Ewent profile image

Ewent 4 months ago from Old Bridge, New Jersey

MyEsoteric...Unless you were in the room when Hillary spoke, you only have media for your substantiations. Given that media today is owned by 6 Hillary Hating billionaires who are ALL ultra conservatives, you will pardon me if I have little faith in your PolitiFacts article.

Hillary will be president because the entire world, except you, knows she is, as President Obama stated, the most qualified woman, to BE president.

If you have so much evidence, why not do the right thing and haul her into court? I am so sick and tired of narrow minds like yours always passing judgment on others.

How about you stay focused on what will happen if your hero Trump who stated this week, "why can't we use nukes" will do to your children or grandchildren's futures? Or is that too much like work for you?


My Esoteric profile image

My Esoteric 4 months ago from Keystone Heights, FL Author

Ewent, I suggest you go back over and "carefully" read what I have written in the Hub and in the comments. The fact that you say "... your hero Trump.." tells me you are in your own world of "truths". In fact, you don't need to reread anything other than the title of this Hub; here I will give it to you.

"Does the GOP Nominee for President Have a Mental Illness?"

And then I go on to suggest " my hero Trump " DOES have a mental illness. Shheeesh.


peoplepower73 profile image

peoplepower73 4 months ago from Placentia California

I heard Trump say that Obama is the founder of ISIS. That is a complete lie and an insult to my intelligence. Trevor Noah, from the Daily Show said that Trump is really a stand up comedian. He is just in the wrong venue for comedy. His supporters take what he says seriously and that is no laughing matter. Everything he says is subject to a different interpretation from the left then the right. A president needs to express himself or herself clearly and with out interpretation. Having his hands on the nuclear code is no laughing matter and needs to be taken seriously.

I feel Fox News and the conservative right have brainwashed the people and are ruining this country. It is more than brainwashing, they have actually been taught what their values and belief systems should be. They created the opportunity for a person like Trump to rise to his level of incompetence by dividing and conquering all of his opponents with slander, insults, lies, defamation, and B.S.


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 4 months ago from Beautiful Upstate New York

Sorry Esoteric....Didn't mean to neglect your comment. I didn't come back to see this thread until today....

Basically, it looks like 3 of the family members didn't hear Hillary say what the others heard. This is quite possible. I don't think any of the family members lied at all.

Yes, I did miss the article you refer to. The point is, you needn't knock yourself out to "show everyone" that I am wrong. Those who agree with you will of course feel I am wrong~~and obviously those who do not agree with you may or may not feel I'm wrong. I did not reply to your hub for votes of right or wrong. You asked a question, I offered my opinion/belief. Matters not to me who agrees or disagrees.

Repeated arguments and continual back & forth concerning Politics or Religion are a completely futile waste of precious time and energy.

I believe I've made it clear numerous times over the past few months that I wouldn't give a nickle for either candidate. One is a clown and the other an accomplished thug. No matter which one wins, WE LOSE.

It's been vivid Mr. E.


My Esoteric profile image

My Esoteric 3 months ago from Keystone Heights, FL Author

Thanks for reading and commenting PeoplePower. What many people who think Trump has a mandate forget is that had there been only one or two opponents of some caliber, Trump wouldn't be the nominee; 75% to 80% of the vote went to other candidates until it was a forgone conclusion.


Ewent profile image

Ewent 3 months ago from Old Bridge, New Jersey

Now that Herr Trump has proven, beyond any doubt, that he is mentally deranged thanks to his subtle remarks in his last "let the 2nd Amendment people" speech, it is now obvious this country has concrete proof of why the 2nd Amendment has been bastardized to allow (according to a post speech interview with a Trump campaign advisor), that those "90 million" AR-15 gun owners are replacing the US military, the National Guard and the police.

Just what you want in a president, a dictatorial tyrant who has 90 million gun owners at the ready to quell any negative remarks or protests. How very Putin does it need to get?

Any of you who watched the last episode of the travel show, Anthony Bourdain, saw when he visited Russia the extent of how a Trumpesque Putin handles anyone who dares to oppose him.

Bourdain was dining with a journalist. At the end of this program, Bourdain announced that due to the remarks the journalist made on camera during their dinner, the journalist was shot to death by Putin's "police"...This is where the US is headed under unhinged nuts like Trump.

Trump has NO control over the unhinged nuts in his crowd who will be more than happy to do his dirty work for him. Worse, the Republicans would be thrilled is some trumped up (no pun intended) Lone Wolf assassin takes her out. This is America? Try explaining that to your kids.


My Esoteric profile image

My Esoteric 3 months ago from Keystone Heights, FL Author

Sounds like Sturm Abteilung to me, Ewent?


peoplepower73 profile image

peoplepower73 3 months ago from Placentia California

My Esoteric: You make an excellent point. If there was just one opponent, he would not be able to divide and conquer. That is his strong suite. I read he learned how to do that in the military school that his father sent him to. It may work in the business world that he is accustom to but not in this world wide political arena. I don't think he has the mentality to unite people, except for his own self serving interest.


Ewent profile image

Ewent 3 months ago from Old Bridge, New Jersey

My state (NJ) already has a number of small businesses who are suing Trump for non-payment of their goods and services. He also has Taj Mahal workers suing for non-payment of their wages. This occurred before Trump had to sell this casino. Sturm Abteilung? With Trump? Getting away with paying for what he wants is a fact of his life.

Trump has already stated in his last speech that if Hillary Clinton makes any SC judge appointments, the "2nd Amendment People" will deal with her.

Trump is a slime ball who is also unhinged.Sorry but what it "sounds" like to those who have not had the misfortune of getting saddled with Trump's bankruptcies and cost of his lawsuit, their Sturm Abteilung is "ignernce" and living too far from Trump's predatory hunting grounds.

May the Trumpenstein be all the right wing in this country ever needed to take their country back to rich man's plantation days. As for we in NJ, Trump knows he doesn't dare set foot anywhere near this state. Not unless he wants Swiss Cheese for a butt.


My Esoteric profile image

My Esoteric 3 months ago from Keystone Heights, FL Author

PeoplePower, can you spell Narcissistic Personality Disorder, lol.

Ewent, Trump probably sued them for having the audacity to sue him. Sturm Abteilung = Stormtroopers or Brownshirts circa 1930s Germany.


Ewent profile image

Ewent 3 months ago from Old Bridge, New Jersey

Actually, living in NJ, since the 70s, our local media outlets have always published everything and anything The Donald does. So, we in the Metro NY/NJ region are far more knowledgeable about Trump Tantrums.

It's only now the rest of the country is finally getting in on all of the nitty gritty dirty Trump tactics.

He only sues AFTER they sue him. Counter-suing is what Trump spends a lot of his money on.

Or else, he pays off his opposition as he did Ivana and Marla who are under gag orders not to dare speak ill of this lunatic.


MizBejabbers profile image

MizBejabbers 3 months ago

Have you noticed that all the women involved with him are beautiful blonds, wives, ex wives, campaign apologists, even his "spiritual advisor"? Did you see the interview with her on CNN? I'll bet she can make him say, "Oh God!"

Sorry, just teasin' like he did with Hillary and the 2nd Amendment folks.


Ewent profile image

Ewent 3 months ago from Old Bridge, New Jersey

Actually, there were whispers about Trump's bizarre sexual proclivities back in his Playboy days. He spent quite a bit of time at the McAfee NJ Playboy Mansion, ergo his wife Melania's link to Playboy and that centerfold.

In those days, no one paid much attention to Trump and his kinky "recreational" habits. We all just figured he was like all CEOs and thanks to limitless money, could buy all the "kink" he felt privileged to enjoy.

That's why I laugh and laugh when the religious fundamentalists and evangelicals who support Trump try to canonize him. We here in NJ know differently.

So bad is his reputation, that he had to close his Edison, NJ campaign headquarters. My guess is he knows if he sets foot in NJ, he'll put his life at risk thanks to the thousands he owes money to.


Nudely 3 months ago

Oh Goody! We finally get to have a King George III ! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OqbDBRWb63s

(One way or another!)

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