Are Blacks The Cursed Descendants of Ham?

Queen Charlotte: Black English Queen and Wife Of English King George III (1738-1820)

Oh My God!

10/18/09

This may be the first time that some of you have heard of this topic.

Well welcome aboard this journey into a religious idea that has plagued the minds of certain groups of people over long periods of time, causing them to wreak havoc and scorn upon another group of people for hundreds if not thousands of years. Sadly, some people still believe this idea.

First the text of the curse then my commentary on the text


Noah Gets Drunk And Naked

Genesis chapter 9

20 Noah was the first tiller of the soil. He planted a vineyard; 21 and he drank of the wine, and became drunk, and lay uncovered in his tent. 22 And Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father, and told his two brothers outside. 23 Then Shem and Japheth took a garment, laid it upon both their shoulders, and walked backward and covered the nakedness of their father; their faces were turned away, and they did not see their father’s nakedness. 24 When Noah awoke from his wine and knew what his youngest son had done to him, 25 he said, "Cursed be Canaan; A slave of slaves shall he be to his brothers." 26 He also said, "Blessed by the Lord my God be Shem; and let Canaan be his slave. God enlarge Japheth, and let him dwell in the tents of Shem; and let Canaan be his slave." (Revised Standard Edition)

My Commentary

Now let’s see what this infamous curse is all about.

Well it appears that Noah got drunk and passed-out naked in his tent (Verse 21). His son Ham saw him lying there drunk asleep and told his brothers about it and they covered him with a garment (Verse 22). So it seems that Noah spoke this curse because he was mad that his son, Ham, saw him naked.

I guess he was pretty uptight about being seen naked by Ham but not about drinking so much that he'd passed-out and was lying there in the nude where anyone could see him, including Shem and Japheth. Ham just happened to see him first.

Now here’s where the story gets interesting.

Noah’s mad at his son, Ham, but he curses his grandson Canaan (Verse 25). He says "Cursed be Canaan; a slave of slaves shall you be to your brothers."

Why is he cursing his innocent grandson Canaan, who's not in this story at all up to this point and who’s only mentioned here in passing? (Verse 22)

And what’s so bad about being seen naked that he’d want to curse anybody anyway, especially his innocent grandson? Ham committed this "horrible" offense so why doesn’t he curse Ham instead?

Noah was drunk; so maybe he intended to curse Ham but mistakenly cursed Canaan. At any rate, the person who initially took the “forbidden” action in relation to Noah was Ham not Canaan.

Some people say that seeing Noah naked wasn't the real reason for his invoking the curse…that the real reason Canaan was cursed was because he sexually molested Noah while he was sleeping. Read the text for yourself folks;

“And Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father, and told his two brothers outside. 23 Then Shem and Japheth took a garment, laid it upon both their shoulders, and walked backward and covered the nakedness of their father; their faces were turned away, and they did not see their father’s nakedness”. (Verse 22)

Do you see anything in the text about Canaan molesting his grandfather, Noah? Does it seem to you that the real reason for the curse was that Ham saw Noah naked?

If seeing Noah naked wasn't the reason why does the writer emphasize the fact that Ham saw his father's nakedness and Shem and Japheth didn't? Anyway, the innocent Canaan received the curse not, Ham.

Let's move on.

Let’s dissect the historical after shocks of this curse. White supremacists and their sympathizers say that Ham was cursed by God with blackness and as a result, all of Ham’s descendants (Black People) are cursed and are destined to be slaves (A good justification for enslaving Africans during the European slave trade.).

But as you can see by the text, that’s not true. God doesn’t curse anyone Noah does. (Verse 24-25). Noah doesn’t curse Ham he curses his innocent grandson, Canaan, and the text doesn’t say that Ham or Canaan were cursed with blackness.

Noah said in Verse 25, “Canaan shall be a slave of slaves to his brothers” and in Verses 26-27, to his Uncles Shem and Japheth not to white supremacists or any other group.

Now who are these brothers Canaan is cursed to be a slave to?

Get your bibles out, scroll down to Genesis 10, Verse 6 where it lists the sons of Ham; his son’s are listed as Cush, Mizraim, Put and Canaan.

(Mizraim… was the name generally given by the Hebrews to the land of Egypt…) (Easton’s Revised Bible dictionary)

(This probably means that this list of sons is metaphorical or mythological because these are all names of ancient civilizations in Africa; groups of people not individuals).

These are the blacks who (according to the text) are the descendants of Ham, who historically, white racists say were cursed by God with blackness; but, again, as you can see from the text that’s not the case. God doesn’t curse Ham or his sons with blackness, but Noah does curse Canaan.

So Canaan is cursed to be a slave to his brothers Cush, Egypt, and Put? Canaan is cursed to be a slave to the ancestors of the blacks?

Not to mention that if Canaan’s brothers are black…that means Canaan is black…and his father Ham is black...and since Ham, Shem and Japheth all have the same father and mother. It’s logical to conclude that Noah, his wife, Shem and Japheth are black.

Remember Ham wasn't cursed with blackness. So that means that if his sons are black, he's black, his mother and father are black, and so are his brothers. That’s how absurd this whole thing about blacks being cursed with blackness is. Blacks weren't cursed with black skin.


Dark Skin Is A Blessing

Actually, having black skin was a blessing for Africans rather than a curse. Dark skin protected Africans and other dark skin people from being killed or severely burned by the sun. The melanin content of the skin is what causes dark skin. It’s because of melanin that you get tanned rather than burned when you’re out in the hot sun.

Those with very fair or pale skin have very little or no melanin in their skin, that’s why they can be severely burned or poisoned by exposure to the sun. You could say that those people are cursed because they don’t have dark skin which is just as stupid as saying that those with dark skin are cursed because they don’t have white skin.

I'm surprised by the number of people that don't know about melanin, especially white people. Please those of you who don't know do a search on melanin and get updated and maybe we can start to put an end to some of the stupidity of racism based on skin color.

Let’s trace the descendants of the innocent cursed Canaan.

Go to Genesis 10, Verse15-20 and you’ll see that the descendants of Canaan actually end up populating a large portion of what’s now the Middle East. Canaan was also the name of the “Promised Land” (roughly were present day Israel is now) that Moses led the Children of Israel to. And since the Israelites were the descendants of Canaan’s uncle, Shem, that means they actually fought their own relatives for possession the “Promised Land”.

As I said earlier, if Ham was black, then the whole family of Noah was black, therefore by extension, Moses and the people he led out of Egypt were black. And if you believe that we all descend from Adam and Eve, they were black; which goes along with the current findings of genetic and archeological science that states that, all humans originated in Africa near Ethiopia.

Not to mention that Egypt was also a descendant of Ham, where these children of Israel lived and intermingled for four hundred years. (After intermingling with Egyptians for four hundred years, they had become more Egyptian than Israelite; as the descendants of Africans have become more American than African after living in the United States for a similar length of time)

So if there were any “cursed descendants of Ham.” It looks like they would have to be Canaan’s descendants. But again…the text doesn’t say Canaan’s descendants were cursed just the innocent Canaan (Verse 25-26).

So what happened to the fabled curse on black people?

Unless you’re spiritually myopic, you can see from the text that this whole curse thing has just been ethnic propaganda, used for centuries to justify enslaving Africans and their descendants for economic gain and to help relieve the guilt of white Christians for participating in the slave trade. Generally speaking, this myth has allowed all whites to feel superior to blacks for no other reason than that they are white!

According to the noted African American Historian and anthropologist, J.A Rogers, in his book "Nature Knows No Color Line" certain Jewish Rabbis in the first or second century A.D. taught that Ham was cursed with blackness for engaging in sex on the ark against God’s command. This is another source of historical misinformation that helped create the psychological climate that made it easier for various white Christian cultures to abuse and enslave blacks for social and economic gain.

As Montesquieu, the French political theorist said, “It is impossible for us to suppose these creatures, enslaved Africans, to be men; because allowing them to be men, a suspicion would follow that we ourselves are not Christians.”

In other words Christians wouldn't enslave their fellow man. So Montesquieu and others would rather see the enslaved Africans as not human (not men) in order to "save face" and still see themselves as "good" Christians. (How hypocritical is that?)

The myth that God "cursed" blacks made it easier for white Christians and others to engage in racist behaviors without feeling guilty about it. (Of course not all whites or white Christians accepted this ideology or engaged in those behaviors and many were totally in opposition to any racist ideology)

Blacks must have previously been very powerful and enviously admired in the cultural and religious history of the various white cultures of the world, for so much scorn to have been heaped on them starting in such ancient times.

“What a subject for meditation, just think that the race of black men today our slaves and the object of our scorn, is the very race to which we owe our arts, science and even the use of our speech.” Anthropologist, Count Constatin de Volney (1727-1820).


Some African Americans BelieveThis Myth

Ironically, there are African-Americans, who believe this myth, about blacks being the "Cursed Descendants of Ham" without ever researching it, to see if it's true or not! They never critique nor question if what they believe is true or not. They just accept it as true, because that’s what they’ve been taught.

But that's the way it is with those who are overly religious or closed minded whether they’re black or white. But we should seek to know the truth if want to free our minds of deception and self deception. “And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free” John 8:32

This article is dedicated to those who believed that blacks were the “Cursed Descendants of Ham” based on what they’ve been taught or believed that the Bible said on the subject. Hopefully after reading this article the truth flashed across your Minds like Lightening across a darken sky!

If you enjoyed the hub vote it up, share with friends, family and on social media

Thanks

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Comments 116 comments

bayareagreatthing profile image

bayareagreatthing 7 years ago from Bay Area California

I am familiar with the ridiculous teaching of Ham's curse. I am also familiar with many things being done throughout history in the "name of Christianity".

As a follower of Christ, I am more than appalled at the use of anything in the scripture to defend racism of any kind. Never, ever did God make a race of people who were superior over another. even the choice of Israel was not about race, but about a promise and a witness of God's goodness to those who love him. Well written hub!


vveasey profile image

vveasey 7 years ago from Detroit,MI Author

Thanks again! bayareagreatthing


kess profile image

kess 7 years ago

Hey V,

You have missed many things.

First Ham sin was not seeing his father naked but by his actions it was intended to humiliate the High priest unto God in front of his brothers.

We must cover the nakedness of our brother and even more so of our fathers and high priest.

As high priest, Noah had to do something to protect The office of the High Priest and it was out of compassion for Ham that he chose to curse not the son but his offspring.

And added to that as the high priest, this was given unto Him by the Holy Spirit foreseeing the future generations and how history will play out itself with the sons of Canaan being the arch enemy of the Hebrews.

The Hebrew History also records that by Ham self same actions he brought the blackness upon himself and we see the result in mankind history up to this very day.

As a black man I am not ashamed to admit all these things for now we as the gentiles and the least, are more opportuned to entering the Kingdom of God before those who considered themselves great.

Yes indeed truth sets up free.

Truth is the Christ in us.


vveasey profile image

vveasey 7 years ago from Detroit,MI Author

Hi Kess

Thanks for your comments, but where in this story does it say that Ham was trying to humiliate the high priest of God? Here’s the text, 20 Noah was the first tiller of the soil. He planted a vineyard; 21 and he drank of the wine, and became drunk, and lay uncovered in his tent.

If there was any humiliation of Noah, he humiliated himself by getting drunk and passing out naked in his tent where any passerby could have seen him; it just happened that the passerby was Ham.

It appears that Ham told his older brothers so they could handle the situation. The text doesn’t say that he was trying humiliate Noah. Here’s the text, 22 And Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father, and told his two brothers outside.

Where does it say in this story that Canaan or black people were cursed with blackness?

Back up your comments by showing me and other hubbers who may read this where this story supports your comments.


Mwafriqa 6 years ago

Hi V, actually the hamitic myth has intrigued me for a while but surprisingly though ive read the verses many times i never noted that it was Canaan who was cursed and not Ham himself...thanks for pointing that out.

What has actually been curious to me was Ham's other son Cush...he was also known as Aethiops also loosely translated as the 'burnt one'. This seems to infer that Cush was black since the word Aethiops in greek means black. Ive always thought Cush's lineage to be the source of the hamitic myth.

You are right to say that black pple must have done smthng to piss the rest off. It follows that since Cush was black, his son Nimrod was also black. Biblical records of Nimrod show that he was a mighty man (Genesis 10:8), historical records potray Nimrod as a man of colossal achievements. He is said to have founded the great Babylonian Kingdom and married the most beautiful woman Semiramis. He was a terrible tyrant who no man or army could subdue in battle. He could tame the wildest of animals from the bushes of Africa and bring them to babylonia for entertainment. According to history, his Nemesis, Shem finally overpowers him, cuts him into pieces and scatters the pieces over the entire land. It is said that Semiramis in fear of losing her power then went with 'fallen angels' and bore a son proclaiming it to be a 'virgin birth' and that the son was Nimrod reborn...and thus the generation of the Nephilim began...the giants of old.

Following your line of thinking then it seems that this first and so far greatest human kingdom founded and ruled by a black man must be the source of all this scorn...for scorn & cruelty is nothing but an expression of one's own fear and insecurity


Mwafriqa 6 years ago

Actually V...do some bit of research on Nimrod & Semiramis and let us know what you find out...lots of myths surround these two and their kingdom...others say most of ancient religions and rituals stem from these two


vveasey profile image

vveasey 6 years ago from Detroit,MI Author

Thanks for your comments Mwafrigq!

You say “surprisingly though ive read the verses many times i never noted that it was Canaan who was cursed and not Ham himself”

Sometimes that happens when you’ve heard something repeated for so long that it colors your perception of what you read and you only see what you’ve been programmed to see.

Genesis 10:15-20 supports your point about Cush, Nimrod etc, first archeology and now genetic science confirm that that humans originated in Africa near present day Ethiopia. Over thousands of years as they migrated to various geographical areas they’re skin color and physiology adapted to the physical environment they lived in.

(Aethiops is the Greek version of Ethiopian and indeed means burnt-face or burnt by the sun, because the Africans the first Greeks came in contact with skins were so dark; they thought they had been burnt by the sun).

So if Cush was black (and he was) so was Ham, Noah and the whole family, because according to the story all other people had been destroyed in the flood.


ShadowKing! 6 years ago

Nice article, nicely presented. I agree the Bible doesn't mention Noah as a High Priest and thus and thus. But why would Noah, a righteous man, curse Ham's son for what Ham saw? It seems that Kess has a reasonable point with the "humiliation" factor (not High Priest thing). Passages tells us Noah was sober ("woke from his wine") when he realized "what his son had done to him". Ham had done something TO Noah. Sodomy or Humiliation? Logically I believe God would have "spoken up" to Noah had Ham sodomized him, and ordered a punishment against Ham. This wasn't the case. So humiliation (or embarrassment) is the best alternative. As far as the black race being cursed...no. However, history testifies to nearly every race of man receiving some degree of slavery and national disgrace. Egyptians, Hebrews, Greeks, Jews, Latins, Arabians, Chinese, Japanese, etc., and now Americans have all been the but of either slavery or national disgrace. Reasonably, these can be remnants of a cursed. In conclusion: every person of race is cursed by sin.


vveasey profile image

vveasey 6 years ago from Detroit,MI Author

What’s Up ShadowKing!

Thanks for your comments. I’ll address some of the points you’ve noted

You say “But why would Noah, a righteous man, curse Ham's son for what Ham saw? It seems that Kess has a reasonable point with the "humiliation" factor (not High Priest thing). Passages tells us Noah was sober ("woke from his wine") when he realized "what his son had done to him". Ham had done something TO Noah. Sodomy or Humiliation?

The passage didn’t say Noah was sober only that he “woke from his wine”. If you’ve ever been drunk or seen anyone who was so drunk that they passed-out. You know that when you wake up you aren’t necessarily sober and may have a hangover and may not be thinking clearly.

You logically ask “But why would Noah, a righteous man, curse Ham's son (Noah’s grandson) for what Ham saw?” (The curse was obviously for what Ham saw that’s why his brothers backed into the tent so they wouldn’t see Noah naked when they covered him up)

I’ll ask you a question, why would a righteous man drink himself into a drunken stupor until he passed-out naked where anyone could see him?

You point out as an explanation for the curse “So humiliation (or embarrassment) is the best alternative”

If Ham was cursed because Noah felt humiliated because Ham saw him naked, then the curse was directed at the wrong person. He should have directed the curse at himself because it was his fault that he got drunk and passed-out naked where anyone could see him. Ham just happened to be the one who saw him first. Ham tried to do the right thing; he consulted with his older brothers so they could deal with the situation.

Thanks again for your comments. I like dealing with people who take a logical and factual approach to any subject, sacred or secular. I welcome any additional comments you may have.


ShadowKing! 6 years ago

Well, well, had I not been so busy and lost track of my comments, I would’ve responded to this earlier.

1. No, the Bible doesn’t use the word “sober” but it does imply it. “Noah WOKE from HIS WINE”. Your explanation has truth in it, but biblical language tends to convey things different than what many perceive it to say. Literally, people awake from sleep not wine. Figuratively, a person awaking from the intoxicating effects of wine means “sobered up”, hangover or not.

2. You asked me in a rhetorical attempt: “Why would a righteous man drink himself into a drunken stupor until he passed-out naked where anyone could see him?” Well, I say now: Even the righteous stumble. It’s not impossible for them to slip and commit sin. Read Mt. 24:24. “If possible, even the elect,” is basically saying there is a possibility for even the righteous to fall to sin. David was righteous & he committed adultery & murder. Job was R, he slipped into arrogance. Solomon, Saul, Peter, Moses were all righteous & slipped and committed mistakes.


vveasey profile image

vveasey 6 years ago from Detroit,MI Author

Welcome back shadowking!

I agree the language of bible is figurative so how can you be sure "woke from his wine" means sober? Figurative language can contain many interpretations. I just pointed out that the text didn't say Noah was sober just that he awoke, figuratively that could mean he was sober or had a hangover, but because the text said "he awoke" you interpret that to mean he was sober, maybe he was, maybe he wasn't. I'm not taking a definite stand on that point as you are, other than "awoke" doesn't necessarily mean "sober".

With the "righteous man" comment I was just following up on a question you asked. Another question about a "righteous man" is why would a righteous man curse his innocent grandson instead of the one who committed the offense? (This is not a rhetorical question) What's your definition of "a righteous man"? If someone commits murder or adultery are they righteous while they are committing those acts? What standards does a "righeous person" have to adhere to be righteous as opposed to someone who's not righteous?

The ten commandments say don't commit murder or adultery are you righteous when you do those things? (These are not rhetorical questions)

I look forward to your comments


ShadowKing! 6 years ago

As far as the righteous debate, it's irrelevant at this point. The central focus is what does "Noah woke from his wine" mean. My argument isn't on just "woke", it's on "woke from his wine". Again, had it been sleep he woke up from God would've had that written. But It states "from his wine." That's the defining clue: Noah woke--FROM HIS WINE. Now "woke" past tense of "wake" translated from yaqats, literally means "to awake"--to become consciously alert apart from sleep. So if a more clarifying translation is applied it would be: "Noah woke from his sleep and from his wine". The fact that God did have Moses write "woke from his sleep" reasonably means that the "waking up/woke" is in direct relation to "from his wine".

So re-translating for better clarity and exact conveyance (hangover has no Hebrew equivalence, sober/hangover aren't Hebraic words) it would read: "Noah became consciously alert from his wine". When the definitions of the past tense verb "woke" are used interchangeably the rendering is evident Noah sobered up from his wine. That's why he was "alert"--he KNEW (alert)to what Ham had done. My stance remains the same.

thank you.


vveasey profile image

vveasey 6 years ago from Detroit,MI Author

Thanks again for your comments shadowking

You make some excellent points.

I’m not trying to change your stance, just putting forth my stance. That’s what these hubs are all about, debate, sharing of ideas and viewpoints, love of discussion and writing and fun.

You brought up the point about biblical language being figurative, so I'm responding to that point. You said

“Your explanation has truth in it, but biblical language tends to convey things different than what many perceive it to say. Literally, people awake from sleep not wine. Figuratively, a person awaking from the intoxicating effects of wine means “sobered up”, hangover or not”.

I just disagree that “woke from his wine” can only be interpreted to mean “sobered up”

You say the language is figurative but think “woke from his wine” can only mean he literally woke up sober with no hangover, headache or ill affects from drinking enough wine to cause him to pass-out.

Since the language is figurative I think “woke from his wine” could just as well mean that indeed he did wake up from his wine induced slumber but not necessarily unaffected by the amount of wine he drank, he just woke up; Like Many people who wake up from wine or alcohol induced sleep aren’t necessarily clear headed or may have a headache or other ill affects from getting drunk.

The righteous man question is relevant to me and probably to others who may read this hub. So if it’s not relevant to you, you don’t have to respond,

You pointed out that “David was righteous & he committed adultery & murder” So I have to ask you again,

What's your definition of "a righteous man?

If someone commits murder or adultery are they righteous while they are committing those acts?

What standards does a "righteous man" have to adhere to be righteous as opposed to someone who's not righteous?

The Ten Commandments say don't commit murder or adultery are you righteous when you do those things? (These are not rhetorical questions)

I look forward to your comments as I’m sure others who may read this hub will.


ShadowKing! 6 years ago

I’m not bashing your implications that most people have a hangover after consuming large amounts of alcohol. I respect your opinion. I’m just defending “a” logical interpretation. Now as for “figurative” language, you obviously don’t think every single word in a figurative statement is an allegoric word, do you? Wine is literal, woke is figurative. Figurative language is simply a way of saying something rather than saying it in literal terms. The Bible is full of that, as well as literalism.

Now that the Noah thing is pretty much cleared up we can discuss the righteous man. For my words in my last comment were: “As far as the righteous debate, it's irrelevant at this point.” This point being when Noah’s awaking was still in debate. Now the righteous debate is relevant.

I wasn’t implying David was righteous AT THE MOMENT he murdered Bathseba’s husband. I meant, which should’ve been obvious, that the Lord accounted David as righteous. It just so happened later he killed someone. He repented and then regained his righteous standing among the Lord.

So my definition of “righteous man” is the literal dictionary definition: “a male human—acting in accord with divine or moral law.” So my answers to your questions can obtained from this basic definition which is precise and to point.


vveasey profile image

vveasey 6 years ago from Detroit,MI Author

You’re right “I obviously don’t think every single word in a figurative statement is an allegoric word” and I know the difference between a figurative use of a word and a literal use of a word.

You say “Wine is literal, woke is figurative”. So you think he woke up figuratively not literally?

From my point of view “woke from his wine” is figurative and literally means, “Woke from his sleep”

You will have to explain how “woke” is figurative.

If “woke” is figurative this would seem to contradict you saying, “That's why he was "alert"--he KNEW (alert) to what Ham had done” which would be literal.

I’d still would like to know (if you know) why Noah a righteous man would curse his innocent grandson, Canaan, for something his son, Ham did?

What did Ham do that was so bad Noah curses his innocent grandson? Maybe he wasn’t as alert a you think.

What kind of righteous men are these who commit murder, adultery and curse innocent people?

As for a statement you make being obvious, (I meant, which should’ve been obvious, that the Lord accounted David as righteous).

It may be obvious to you because you know what you mean but it may not be obvious to me or others who read this hub. That’s why I asked you to clarify your view on what makes someone a righteous man.

What makes someone a righteous man may be different for different people. So rather than assume I know what you mean or that others who read this hub will know what you mean. I prefer you clarify what you mean so it will be clear to all so thanks for the clarification.


ShadowKing! 6 years ago

Okay, now this discussion is becoming redundant. Because:

1. I’ve already explained TWICE how “woke” takes on a figurative nature in DIRECT connection to “wine”. (If God wanted Moses to write, “Noah woke from his sleep.” That is what would have been written. “from his wine” means something else than sleep.)

2. I’ve already explained to you a man can become righteous, later fall to temptation and commit a sin, but repent and gain a righteous status in the EYES OF THE LORD—not your eyes, not my eyes, not any other person’s.

3. As for my statement about the Lord accounting David as righteous being obvious and you claiming it wasn’t to you or someone else perhaps—well, this is my answer. Such confesses as yours “failing to see the obvious in Scripture when it is” proves not everyone claiming to be a Christian or “a believer in the Bible” actually READS & STUDIES the BOOK! Because if you had studied up on David you would be in agreement with me about recognizing the obvious. And that obvious is: God chose David to fulfill His righteous plan (meaning David would have to later become righteous)—David became righteous—David succumbed to temptation & sin (becoming temporarily unrighteous)—David repented of his sins (so he could regain his righteousness before God)—God forgave him, accounting him righteous—David lived out the rest of his life IN RIGHTEOUS WAYS—The End.

My view on Noah cursing Ham would be too detailed for comment space. Some other time. Just know it might not be answer you agree with. This may be my last comment to this topic, because it’s becoming redundant when I have to explain a simple sentence umpteenth times. It seems to me you're trying to spin discrediting rhetoric on my MENTAL perception by trying to imply something I never even conveyed, by writing: "You say 'Wine is literal, woke is figurative'. So you think he woke up figuratively not literally?"

Never wrote, hinted, implied, or insinuated Noah had awaken "figuratively" from his "literal" wine. So if you cannot glean my clear and precise message from my TWICE explanatory attempts, then, like my grandmama use to say to us when we failed repeatedly to grasp informative: "Well, baby, if you can't understand simple things said three times, then a fourth time will make us both look like idiots. Go run and play now." This is my third and last attempt.

A person cannot awake from wine. The only things he can awake from is sleep and death. Again, cannot wake from wine even if the intoxicating effects PUT you to sleep. It would still be the sleep you awoke from. Noah woke (sobered up) from his wine...and was now alert to what had happened.

Thank you.


vveasey profile image

vveasey 6 years ago from Detroit,MI Author

Yes it is redundant and we can agree to disagree

thanks for your comments

take care


Pettel 6 years ago

i am not a religious person...ive not read the bible...

i read this article tho...and my only thought at this time is...noah woke (either sober or hungover) and cursed his grandson...the son of ham...

To me...Noah had time to find these things out...how could he know it was ham that first saw him? unless he questioned...which to me makes his waking of no concequence (sorry about spelling)...


I. A. M 6 years ago

Greetings, God is not the author of confusion. people took that upon themselves. spiritual blindness is destroying society because everything about God has been twisted. If one has a personal relationship with the father and son, one will see. Intellect only takes you so far. I have a book coming out soon that unveils the truth about God/jesus and this world. some lack and some don't. it goes deeper than the eyes can see. God bless


The Real BLACK JEW 5 years ago

no we are the the desendents of ham whites, russians , asians act are the cursed seeds of ham we are the desendets of the jews . the whites stole our whole history and destoryed it and stole our idenity we are the real children of isreal ,


Joe Goi 5 years ago

A very good lengthy discussion on the Noah and the curse of his grandson Canaan. I do not know much about the christian bible but my opinion may express a simple reasoning from simple questions.

1: When the event surrounding Noah's drinking of wine happen Ham had the son Canaan? If so then do you think that the punishment in form of curse is paramount to that sin commited by Adam and his wife in the garden of eden.

2: If Canaan was a grow up person during the time when Noah got silly drunk from wine and layed nake and later waking up from his wine sleep his curse Canaan and not his father that is a Figurative story in itself. As a righteous man he would have found out more information before making his decision. For me Noah waking from his wine sleep mean the literal sleep as well as drunkness which includes hangover.

Therefore the question in this category is He(Noah) decision is it based on embrassment or Humiliation?

3: A simple question is which act diserve greater for breaking a law: Act by Ham not drunk causing embrassment or humiliation? And what about Noah Getting drunk and behaving disorderly causing causing embrassment and humilation. Which one of the two derseve the worse penalty? I will leave it for people to decise but for me the story is incomplete.

4: Is Canaan deserve the curse? My answer is the story is not too clear.

Sorry if Iam took vague on the subject but i find the whole issue interesting.

Can someone help me understand and answer a question that I have for a long time and that is: Will the fallen angles including santan be forgiven if they repent?

Thank you.


Noah6 5 years ago

No Joe Goi there will be no forgiveness for the Fallen Ones. These beings willfully rebelled against the Most High with access to the full untainted knowledge to make the correct decision and no weak mortal flesh to be tempted. Man is not so fortunate, so Grace is extended to us.

I hope that this has been helpful to you.


DUCE32 5 years ago

first you must ask yourself this , is the curse of ham really authentic? ok , it states that ham seen his father naked , and later shem and japheth cover them up and noah curse ham son canaan? one if canaan , was really curse then why did god made nimrod his greatest hunter.... and why is japheth along with his brother shem recieves blessings from god... and that all of canaan children would be servants for all eternity.... than why was japheth son gomer up to his sons were considered gentiles and cast out into europe.... and the tulmud which is a babylonian book states that all gentiles would be slaves? and why the so called askenazi jews proclaiming refuge in a curse land of canaan , when their book the tulmud is babylonian? who really benefits from the bible by trying to hide and distort the truth ? if aramiac is afro-asiatic and afri means = carthage which is tunisia in modern times and is in the land of ham and shem = asiatic wouldn't it language be hamitic-semetic so they had to live amoungst eachother ? and gomer = who is greek and askenazi = germany , turkey , hungary , french are really the gentiles.... and decendents how is the curse place on ham .... and who is known to hate the egyptians the romans , who is known to killed yeshushua ebin yusef (jesus) and turned him into zues ... greeks , who revised the old testament context first done by ptolemy made the term christus which means annointed or lord and created seraptis ....so that greeks and egyptians could praise the deity , and in in 325 annu domini constantine the horrible who converted into christianity .... which is coptic kemetic scroll of the book of the rah , orientate by musa (moses) in(egypt) that where the same parables .... about nimrod is the same thing that happened to osiris ... where seth cut osiris into pieces and isis had to search for him .... and who profit from the trans-atlantic slave trade cause they was running from the inquisition and found wealth with enslaving people the sephardic jews , like christoper columbus who's name is christobal colon and is from genoa spain and the ship traders name aaron lopez , david frank , and issac de costa .... who antagonized the enslavement of blacks so they could divert persecutions from the catholic church .... king james writers revised the bible to his likened to justify slavery that askenazi's and khazars could profit and the khazars who are decendents from russia and georgia , armania etc


MaestroECMcCloud profile image

MaestroECMcCloud 4 years ago from Lexington, South Carolina

I have always had a problem with this particular passage of scripture. First of all, Noah was DRUNK AND NAKED. How dared he curse anyone in that condition? Did he even have the power to place a curse on anyone? Just doesn't make sense to me.


MaestroECMcCloud profile image

MaestroECMcCloud 4 years ago from Lexington, South Carolina

Also, how could Noah have been the FIRST tiller of the soil? Wasn't. Cain a farmer?


vveasey profile image

vveasey 4 years ago from Detroit,MI Author

MaestroECMcCloud

thanks for checking in!

The reason this story doesn't make sense is because

it's Jewish folk-lore...it's not to be examined or analyzed, but swallowed whole-hog and passed down to the next generation to kept it alive.


MaestroECMcCloud profile image

MaestroECMcCloud 4 years ago from Lexington, South Carolina

Lol.Vveasey, I was reading your profile. I see that you are a musician like myself. Check out some of my musical hubs on here. I believe we have a lot in common. Stay in touch my friend.


pagesvoice profile image

pagesvoice 4 years ago from New York/Pennsylvania border

I am ill equipped to dissect and interpret various passages and meanings within the Bible. However, I do know, with confidence, that the God I worship is a loving, forgiving and a non punishing God. I don't know why some are born into bondage and others are not. What I do know is that we are all created equal and we are all brothers and sisters. What we need to do is not fight with our siblings...if you know what I mean.


vveasey profile image

vveasey 4 years ago from Detroit,MI Author

pagesvoice

I agree.

Archeology, anthropology and now DNA agree that all humans originated on the African continent and spread to other areas of the globe


vveasey profile image

vveasey 4 years ago from Detroit,MI Author

pagesvoice

You say "I don't know why some are born into bondage and others are not."

Let me see if I can shed some light on that

Some people were born into bondage because their ancestors were forced into bondage against their will and they being the descendants of those ancestors, were born into bondage at birth.


MaestroECMcCloud profile image

MaestroECMcCloud 4 years ago from Lexington, South Carolina

The entire story never has made sense and still does not make sense to me. First of all, Noah was DRUNK AND NAKED. How would he justify putting a curse on anyone and would God then be so petty as to allow such a curse to come to fruition simply to satiate a foolish whim on Noah's part? I think not.


TyeshaMatthews profile image

TyeshaMatthews 4 years ago from MOSS POINT, MS

Looking at the picture above reminds me of what an old history teacher told me my freshman year of high school. He talked about the whites and blacks mixing races and what genes made albinos, mullato,mestizo, etc. What is never spoken is that the wealthier Africans did mingle with Europeans. If so I would not be here! I never say we are cursed but because we had more exposure to European disease and culture we were easy targets to become slave for generations. I am Black, Latina, Irish, English, and parts Blackfoot and Creek Indian. My Family Name on My mother's side is derived from Sowah ( Tribe/Clan in Ghana). We are now known as Sewer (name given to make us feel filthy and ashamed,given by the white settlers who enslaved our royal family). The curse was lifted when blacks started doing amazing things. Some of us are just slaves in the mind because we have not declared that we break the curse forever.


paul 4 years ago

All curses ended on the cross barely 2000years ago...we all are one body in christ and moreover no curse can have any effect on those who are in christ because ''cursed is any man that is hung on a tree,therefore christ was cursed that all descendant curses on us might become a bless,simple tautology......


aliceleftinwonder profile image

aliceleftinwonder 4 years ago from Somewhere along I-5

I'll be honest, I'm a "heathen" and perhaps that is why I had never heard such nonsense. Thanks for an interesting, thought provoking article.


vveasey profile image

vveasey 4 years ago from Detroit,MI Author

aliceleftinwonder

thanks

You're not a "heathen" those who created this myth and those who believe are the heathens.


Jay 4 years ago

You need to research the way that people spoke in old times to understand this. Also when you wake up with a hangover you still know what you are saying.


Whiner.. 4 years ago

We don't need DNA evidence to tell us that we started in Africa, Or in that area it tells us in genesis when talking about the green of Eden, just glad that DNA is finally backing it up. :)


gmwilliams profile image

gmwilliams 4 years ago from the Greatest City In The World-New York City, New York

Anyone who believes such inane suppositions need special education for his/her IQ level is seriously lacking. People know better than to believe such nonsense.


vveasey profile image

vveasey 4 years ago from Detroit,MI Author

gmwilliams

You have more faith in those people than I do

Thanks for your comments


Xenonlit profile image

Xenonlit 4 years ago

Queen Phillippa was the other Black Queen of England. She was Queen Victoria's grandmum.

You know who has that drop of Black and can't go back.

The "Curse of Ham" myth was a business model to encourage and excuse slavery and oppression. This myth applied to all non white peoples of the world. Sending your daughter out to the Sodomites to save yourself and your sons is an even worse myth that pollutes the Bible. This is why this Christian picks and chooses based on common sense and wisdom.


vveasey profile image

vveasey 4 years ago from Detroit,MI Author

Xenonlit

as do I

that's the wise thing to do.

funny how the black side of the royal family never comes up

in movies or the history of British monarchy, and isn't made more known to the general public, or the English public, isn't it?


UnnamedHarald profile image

UnnamedHarald 4 years ago from Cedar Rapids, Iowa

"People know better"...Oh, if only that were true-- but I agree with your sentiment gm.


Xenonlit profile image

Xenonlit 4 years ago

V. Actually, the claim is that a lot is not known about their eras. It is amazing that most of our history lessons on UK Royalty centers around the ones Shakespeare wrote about and Othello, of course.


vveasey profile image

vveasey 4 years ago from Detroit,MI Author

Yep as in most countries including this one, the only history that's promoted is the one that makes the ruling or dominant group look good, or is the one they want the public to know!


Mike 4 years ago

More like descendants of monkeys.


Xenonlit profile image

Xenonlit 4 years ago

The truth always finds a way. The oppressors lie and are loud about it. The oppressed are quiet. They keep the real history close, in letters, diaries and in oral history. Now that there's video, the liars automatically fight to deny even video evidence!

The best test of a racist who is to catch them automatically denying an obvious truth they do not want to hear.


vveasey profile image

vveasey 4 years ago from Detroit,MI Author

Xenonlit

I agree

what video are you referring to?


Rodric29 profile image

Rodric29 3 years ago from Phoenix, Arizona

I like some of the ideas expressed in this hub. I am a student of the folklore which is pretty varied in every culture I can see. I am a LDS or Mormon and I am Black--just in case my picture is not convincing enough. I am very familiar with the curse of Cain and other such views. I really do think that this hub presents a logical argument. Voted up and I am a new follower.


vveasey profile image

vveasey 3 years ago from Detroit,MI Author

Thanks Rodric29

I just try to take a real open-minded historical, psychological, political and spiritual view of this topic (or any topic I write about), to show how it started, what's motivating it, how it continues and how it can be ended.

I think presenting a clear, reasonable, logical, non-basised look at this topic will help to clear up the confusion that many readers have about this subject


Levertis Steele profile image

Levertis Steele 3 years ago from Southern Clime

Kess,

You wrote, "The Hebrew History also records that by Ham self same actions he brought the blackness upon himself and we see the result in mankind history up to this very day."

You certainly have a right to your belief, but who put Jesus on the cross? Was it the church or Gentiles? His Own! So, Hebrews, like all people, made mistakes. The Hebrews were not God. They had to be corrected too. Maybe they recorded that blacks were cursed with blackness, but the Bible does not support it.

Yes, I agree with this you wrote: "we as the gentiles and the least, are more opportuned to entering the Kingdom of God before those who considered themselves great."

Even so, we as blacks must refrain from being like the world. That is a problem. We must also be care not to stereotype and think that all whites are of the same mind. Blacks won't be first in Heaven as a race. God looks at individual hearts. I believe "The Firsts" will be from various races, those individuals who love Him..

People down through history who twisted, fabricated God's Word to satisfy their greed were not true Christians. They used the Word to work their evil. People who read the Bible know the story of Noah and Ham.

Compare those Genesis 9 verses covering Noah, Ham, and the nakedness with Ex. 20:5 and Deut. 5: 9“:… for I, the Lord, your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, on the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, but showing lovingkindness to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.” The third and following generations would not be punished for the sins of the fathers if they loved the Lord. If they hated Him, that would be sinful as the fathers were, and punishment would be a natural consequence. “Sin is in the blood.”


Levertis Steele profile image

Levertis Steele 3 years ago from Southern Clime

It is amazing how lies lead to interesting conclusions! If blackness and slavery were a curse, then, the Israelites, who were enslaved, were black. The destroyers of black history apparently had a lot to hide. The truth will come to light. Those African statues (royalty) found with the heads knocked off . . . must have had afros! So, the damage was done to hide truth. I am having fun with this hub. I mean well, and no offense is extended to anyone. I enjoy thought-provoking hubs!

vveasey,

What an interesting hub! Thanks for sharing.


Levertis Steele profile image

Levertis Steele 3 years ago from Southern Clime

Some of you "punched" Noah who got drunk and naked and had the audacity to curse others! Lay off Noah! He could have been innocent. Being on that ark so long called for a quaff of juice to quench the thirst. That juice might have set too long and got fermented. The jugs were probably made of clay, and he could not see the juice "moving aright." He did not have a refrigerator, you know. The lack of refrigeration undoubtedly brought on the discovery of booze and buttermilk.


Levertis Steele profile image

Levertis Steele 3 years ago from Southern Clime

Kess,

You wrote, "The Hebrew History also records that by Ham self same actions he brought the blackness upon himself and we see the result in mankind history up to this very day."

The Bible shows that "blackness" refers not to just color, but sin as well. A man with a black heart is evil or sinful. That is not to say that his heart is colored black.


poboy 3 years ago

what


mike102771 profile image

mike102771 3 years ago from Lakemore, Ohio

I have a history book written by a very conservative group called “A Patriots History of the United States” that states this was used to help the religious south excuse their use of Africans as slaves and why they did not enslave whites.


vveasey profile image

vveasey 3 years ago from Detroit,MI Author

mike102771

You state the obvious

Did you read this hub or just the title?

That point is made in this hub

It wasn't just the religious south

It was also justification for the other "Christian" countries

who were involved in the African slave trade.


mike102771 profile image

mike102771 3 years ago from Lakemore, Ohio

All I was saying that even in an American Conservative history book which is known for mythologizing the founders the writers recognizes this practice as for the rest like many Americans my world history class spent most of its time talking about the US and its influence on the world (real and not). I had one history teacher who believed that only America had slaves.

And stating the obvious is what I do best.


vveasey profile image

vveasey 3 years ago from Detroit,MI Author

It's kind of hard to call that person a history teacher


mike102771 profile image

mike102771 3 years ago from Lakemore, Ohio

I know what you mean, but the city of Akron (Ohio) hired him. He spent most of his time on the history of his time mainly the 60’s and 70’s with emphasis toward the Vietnam War. On the first day (both American and World) of history class he passed out the books and said “don’t bother reading them they are all wrong.” He lectured on what he felt was real history. Its why I try and read (or listen to on audible) as many history books and biographies so I can see history from more than just one view point.


vveasey profile image

vveasey 3 years ago from Detroit,MI Author

"On the first day (both American and World) of history class he passed out the books and said “don’t bother reading them they are all wrong.”

Just more fuel on the fire


mike102771 profile image

mike102771 3 years ago from Lakemore, Ohio

That was over 25 years ago so I don’t think he teaches anymore.


vveasey profile image

vveasey 3 years ago from Detroit,MI Author

Good


Jezebel 3 years ago

Uhm...but "black Americans" are not African O_o ...they're Shemitic. Africans are the descendants of Ham and the so called Negroes aren't the descendants of Ham. If you don't believe me, look to your precrious biblical scholars..pick up a Zondervan Bible Dictionary and look up Ham..it will tell you that he's not the progenitor of the "Negroes" a.k.a African-Americans...and since we know that Ham, Shem and Japheth were "black" it's not impossible for the "Negroes" to be Shemitic...

"African-American" or "African" isn't a term the slaves put on themselves..it was given to them by Europeans. Since Hebrews looked like other blacks it's an easy mistake to make but again, Black Americans are not Hamitic. They're Shemitic and even more specifically they're Hebrews.


mike102771 profile image

mike102771 3 years ago from Lakemore, Ohio

From what I remember (mostly from the movie Malcolm X) the term African-American or the original variation Afro-American was created to define the descendants of slaves within the American culture. As in Africans (citizens) in America instead of Americans of African descent. At the time with segregation African Americans where second class citizens within the law. It’s why I hate it when I hear someone say they are Irish-American because their ancestors came here on their own free will not in chains.

What is a Zondervan Bible? I have my grandfathers Gutenberg Bible brought from Germany back around 1895 and several King James from my Grandmother’s family. None of these speak about America. From what I remember most slaves came from the West Coast of Africa. Most of the Africans with Jewish ancestors (including places that had groups that followed the faith before taken over by Europe) including what is now Somalia and (French) Guiana. Or am I missing your point?


vveasey profile image

vveasey 3 years ago from Detroit,MI Author

Jezebel

thanks for commenting. Bible scholars aren't precious to me. They are just a resource like any other resource to be used and that had to be checked for accuracy.

You say ""black Americans" are not African O_o ...they're Shemitic. Africans are the descendants of Ham and the so called Negroes aren't the descendants of Ham."

Here you seem to be saying that "Negroes" which is Spanish for "Blacks" aren't decendant from Ham

Then you say "since we know that Ham, Shem and Japheth were "black" it's not impossible for the "Negroes" to be Shemitic"

Now you seem to be making a connection between Ham and "Negroes (blacks)" because he's black.

This is confusing.

What the hell are you talking about?

Would you please explain how these two things you said go together?


Lesleysherwood 3 years ago

Yes, I agree with this sentence so I copied and pasted straight from your hub. (The myth that God "cursed" blacks made it easier for white Christians and others to engage in racist behaviors without feeling guilty about it.)

I am a Christian by the way and the Bible also makes the point that "God is not partial." I mean, how can God curse any race into being a colour, that's crazy, God is a creative artist. We just have to look around at the planet to see its beauty and variety. God created all of us. When we bleed are we not all the same? We are all a member of one race, the human race.


vveasey profile image

vveasey 3 years ago from Detroit,MI Author

Lesleysherwood

That's the point of this hub there is only the human race

and that negates the whole concept of race

because if we're all humans there is no need for the concept of race because there is no other race to compare ourselves too.


Wakerra profile image

Wakerra 3 years ago

Honestly, I don't know when the african people's early ancestors were cursed, whether it started with Noah and Canaan or not. Those records haven't been brought forth yet. God curses people in many ways, and because Noah said "cursed be Canaan" doesn't necessarily mean his posterity was doomed to be black.

What I can tell from what the scriptures do have, is God makes the curse of darkened skin, and those are given for the purpose that the people could tell the followers of Christ from the non. It probably ties in with some of the laws of Moses, being more physical that spiritual, like circumcision etc. These laws are no longer practiced in our day, and the difference of skin color is just a genetic bloodline.


dianetrotter profile image

dianetrotter 3 years ago from Fontana

Hi V, I came to this article from "color of God!" I am truly blessed. I've noticed you make thoughtful, insightful comments. I know when I see you name what follows will make sense. Thank you!


vveasey profile image

vveasey 3 years ago from Detroit,MI Author

Hi Thanks Diane!

I appreciate that recognition!


Kas Day profile image

Kas Day 3 years ago

Basically, this bible is a fabricated fairytale given to us by people than haven't been on the planet long enough to tell anyone about the creation of man, and currently in non African alive today has 2-4% Neanderthal in them right now; which Neanderthal man has been proven to have come much later than the Africans. If not for Africans "mating" with Neanderthal man they would have never been advanced to modern human. Type in all non African are Neanderthals in YouTube and watch the videos. If anything, white people gained their knowledge of the concept of a god from us, and then turned it against us. If not for the moors,which is proof there were Arabic and Africans moors. Moors have been responsible for being them science, math, reading, writing, universities, hygiene and arts. They have even reported that moors even enslaved white women and had them being sold in cages naked in the streets of Europe. Maybe what they did to us was some kind of payback for that, and also, the jews in Spain at that time were reported to have had been black. To change topics a little, why would any of us even worship a religion that we were suspected of being cursed in? If you tell me I'm cursed in something, I'm going to do everything in my power to tear down that institution and curse the people that cursed me. I will not kneel to a god that looks nothing like me given to me by people that hates me. Asking me to love a good that doesn't look like me is asking me to hate myself, and that's something I will never do, and I love my people too much to see you all do this, also!


JDO 3 years ago

This is a great discussion. I also believe that there is only one race the human race. What we should note about the biblical accounts are is that it does not say Noah was right in cursing anyone or that God allowed his curse to come to pass but it only gave an account of what occurred when Noah got drunk. The bible does not say that God told Noah to curse anybody. Noah invoked the curse by his free will - maybe out of the effect of wine or out of anger or some other thing. If this decision originated from God the bible would have said so. For example, it is clearly documented in the bible when God told Noah to build an ark. So I believe that Noah's curse never worked (the bible never gave an account of the effects of Noah's curse) but human beings tried over the years to interpret the effect of a curse that was not supposed to be invoked. From the analysis in this article it is clear that the interpretation human beings - religious and non-religious people - the so called Noah' s curse was wrong or a twisting of the truth. Note that Ham could not have prevented himself from seeing his father naked (unlike his brothers) since he could only know that Noah was naked after first seeing him naked. If there were anything Ham did wrong it is that he did not cover Noah after seeing him naked - if there were any clothes around in the first place. (Also when it says that Noah was the first man to tile the land, I believe it was referring to post flood era since the first time rained since creation according to the records. Note also that the law never came until after Moses and without the law there was no lawlessness, so that Noah's drunkenness couldn't have been imputed to him as unrighteous). God loves all and does not want any to perished (or be cursed)!


LPickfam profile image

LPickfam 3 years ago from Tucson, Arizona, U.S.A.

I am so glad that I was led to (stumbled on) your website. The first article that I read was "Barack Obama: The Magic "Nigger" President" and found it to be a representation of my recurring and often stated assessment, although yours is more clearly stated.

-Thanks


vveasey profile image

vveasey 3 years ago from Detroit,MI Author

Thanks LPickfam

Glad to have someone else aboard who can see with "vision"


FAYFAYCOLE@GMAIL.COM 3 years ago

ALL OF YOU WRONG HAM UNCOVERED HIS FATHERS NAKENESS READ LEV. 18 IT WILL TELL YOU WHAT UNCOVER HIS FATHER NAKENESS MEAN, IT MEAN THAT HE SLEPT WITH H IS MOTHER AND CANNA WAS BORN IT WAS INCEST THAT HAM COMMITTED. THATS WHILE THE CHILD WAS CURSE, BIBLE. LEV. 18 WILL TELL YOU WHAT IT MEAN. REV21 TELLYOU NOT TO ADD OR TAKE AWAY WHAT GOD'S WORD SAID, JAMES 5;14 SAID ASK AND GOD WILL GIVE YOU THE TRUST.


JDO 3 years ago

Looks like you are rather adding to the scriptures. I have read that scripture and never saw a phrase that indicated that Ham uncovered his father's nakedness or that Canaan is the offspring of an incest. Can you tell us where you see that in the scriptures??? This is what I read in the King James bible:

Genesis 9:20-27

King James Version (KJV)

20 And Noah began to be a husbandman, and he planted a vineyard:

21 And he drank of the wine, and was drunken; and he was uncovered within his tent.

22 And Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father, and told his two brethren without.

23 And Shem and Japheth took a garment, and laid it upon both their shoulders, and went backward, and covered the nakedness of their father; and their faces were backward, and they saw not their father's nakedness.

24 And Noah awoke from his wine, and knew what his younger son had done unto him.

25 And he said, Cursed be Canaan; a servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren.

26 And he said, Blessed be the Lord God of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant.

27 God shall enlarge Japheth, and he shall dwell in the tents of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant


Hollis Bush 3 profile image

Hollis Bush 3 3 years ago from Bellflower, California

Here's how I see the whole situation.

Noah was in a lineage of people who are the sons of Adam. The Sons of Adam were saved, The sons of Cain were destroyed. The Angels saw the daughters of men and mated with them, angels can't mate with each other but with humans that is another plain field.

So Cain's descendants are destroyed in the flood, they mocked Noah they told him that he was delusional and needed help, they said it hasn't rained since the beginning of time. When it rained they seemed shelter, they found shelter made of bricks, and stones, Noah screamed get in the Ark, none came except his sons from protection against the rain.

The animals in the fields then seen shelter and went inside the ark for protection from the rain. Noah took his sheep in last one male the other female. 2 by 2 all young animals went inside.

After a while there are only a few people out Moses says get in the ark, they said let us grab our things then we will get in. Theirs a sound of thunder, and lightening flashes across the sky. The winds pick up and shut the door on the Ark. No one gets in, no one comes out.

Panic, theirs panic in the air. You can here the wind whirling, the thunder, and see the magnificent lightening in the skies. The people go out and see the Ark is sealed banging on the door, some prayed to their Gods, others did sacrifice to try and calm the raging storms. All of a sudden the storm stops, the people wipe their heads and say my God helped me, others said No way is this man a prophet. The scoffing and scorning, going on outside the ark is so loud that Moses can hear it from the top of his boat.

Out of nowhere it began to pour down hard, the people stopped scoffing, and murmuring, the winds picked up harder than before, the ground is soaked and some people are holding onto trees. They began to bang on Noah's ark asking for shelter, but to no avail will the door open. Man looked to the ground and seen the water turning into floods then rising.

Out of nowhere a huge tidal wave comes by and takes all the people who were outside of the Ark away from the lands of the earth dragging them to the abyss never to be remembered.

Noah and the Ark is my background for my theory on what happened.

Noah seen the craziest thing known to man and that was the taking away of the tares. He seen people he cared about gone in an instant. You cannot tell me after such a huge event after that you won't want to have a drink after.

Witnessing something like that probably put Noah in a stupor because he was just a mere human. When Ham seen his dad naked he told his brothers, whose to say his brothers didn't tell their dad.

If Shem and Japheth told their dad Noah has an excuse to curse Hams son Canaan. Out of all the events that just took place the only thing that's on your mind is your naked father? Cursed be your son Canaan a servant of servants he shall be ( humble, humbled he shall be).

Next basic Israel history, God brought Jacobs children to Egypt. Joseph the dream interpreter was the reason for this. After Joseph's ruler dies a Pharaoh rises up and puts the Israelis into captivity.

Moses a God fearing man rises up against Pharaoh and calls him out and tells him let my people go. God hardens Pharaohs heart, then strikes the firstborn of Egypt. Pharaoh then tells Moses to leave for he has been humbled by God. Moses leaves with the people and make it to the promise land.

In the promise land the Israelis conquer the Canaanite cities and form the land of Israel. The Canaanites were humbled, humbled.


Sons of Zadok 3 years ago

We don't know if all of Ham or Canaans descendants were black or not. It depends when they were helping to build the Tower of Babel, and God supernaturally turned one race of people, to all the races we have today,with many different languages . Some could have tuned black, some white, or Asian, but also they were supernaturally scattered all over the earth, some probably were left there.The Canaanites settled in the land where Sodom, and Gomorrah was, God destroyed them because of there homosexual perversion. This leads me to think that the reason Noah cursed Ham and his son Canaan was because Hams reaction to seeing his father naked,it could have made him bi-sexual.


Atta Oppong Boahen 2 years ago

It is obvious that Noah cursed his youngest son Ham who begotten Canaan by having affair with his father . Canaan was to be slaved to his brother Japthet Gen 9:27 and also the lowest of slves to his brothers .So in all Noah cursed his Ham twice


Chatina 2 years ago

We now need an expansion re the 2 races - Jacob (Israelite), negro; -Esau(Edomite), red (now called white)


mattdillion4 2 years ago

Idiots, racists and uneducated fools! Alexander Hamilton said, "a nation which can prefer disgrace to danger, is prepared for a master and deserves one." I'm so sick of listening to racist who look for excuses in being a loser, blaming everything on white man. I can go back and blame slavery on black man - since he was the first to have slaves and his slaves were white! So it's not whites man's fault! First known slaves were white under the Egyptians - who were black!

Noah, hadn't a clue what had happened to him until he awoke to see what his younger son had done to him. How would he have known - past out in sleep or drunken slumber whether Ham saw him naked. Hame did something to him so that Noah could no longer have anymore or specifically a 4th child. He lived 350 years after the flood.


Noah6 2 years ago

Egyptians enslaved us too. This is in exodus. Just because we are the same color doesn't make us the same race. Could you specify which statement you read that you considered racist? I understand that SOME of my brethren are racist.I apologize for that, but this doesn't negate the fact that the WORST slavery in human history was perpetrated by ESAU (Europeans) and ISHMAEL (Arabs) upon ISRAEL (Africans,Native Americans, Hispanics, etc.). This is not hate speech, but truth. I don't know exactly happened to Noah, but it was enough to warrant a curse upon CANAAN. Egyptians aren't Canaanites, but they are black as well. The curse was NOT black skin.

"a nation which can prefer disgrace to danger, is prepared for a master and deserves one." Alexander Hamilton said well. What you are seeing is the dry bones of filthy disgraced, cowards waking up as prophesied and becoming a strong people. The beginning of this is telling truth to power (Esau) I hope that this was helpful.


Sons of Zadok 2 years ago

he curse of Ham, I think God inspired Noah to curse Ham and his son Canaan because what Ham did looking at his fathers nakedness and the way he reacted clearly the beginning signs of homosexuality,this is proving because where their decedents settled became the Kingdoms of Sodom and Gomorrah and Zoar, which God destroyed because of there homosexual perversion sparing Zoar for Lots sake but then Lot and his two daughters fled Zoar fearful that God would destroy it also.We have to remember that we are all under the curse that was put on Adam and Eve, that includes all creation, the curse of decay,God said if you eat from the forbidden tree you would die, the death God was talking about was everything started to age or decay,so everything had to start reproducing it self, so it would not die out, on the spiritual side man was cut off from fellowship with God, which was like a spiritual death.Adams curse itself, like Cains was on the ground, it would not produce like before,Eves curse was painful childbirth or labor pains.This curse is still on us, even if we are saved, but Christians will receive a new body free from the curse of decay and ageing,a Angelical body far superior, because believing what Jesus did on the cross, taking Adams and our place and punishment, Jesus being a kinsmen redeemer to Adam which is allowed under Old testament Jewish law, which is someone related to you can take your place to be punished for something you did even if you committed murder, and some of us will not even fill the sting of death, if alive at Jesus s return. And Creations curse of decay will be lifted when God makes a new Earth and Heaven and the old passes away.Back to Ham,not all of Ham or Canaan's descendants were homosexual, if so they would have died out, according to the bible some were bi-sexual which is even worst spreading diseases to straight people. In the city of Sodom,Lots two future son-n-laws, were also out side his door, demanding the for the two male strangers, or angels so they could rape them, the bible says ever man young, and old was outside his door,this had to include the two men his daughters were promised to marry.I,m sure there was much worst things going on in those cites, that was not mentioned in the bible, it just says that the cries of the innocent, probably molested children,rape victims, and having sex with animals, was so great that God rained down burning sulfur on them and destroyed everything.


Danisha Harris 2 years ago

right. they weren't cursed with blackness. they are already black. th


dac 2 years ago

Who was curse?


Dac 2 years ago

 Biblical Curse Of White Skin.

Although Ham was not cursed, many Europeans of old believed Ham to be guilty and cursed by Noah. This error is all too common in many modern commentaries. The belief that Ham was cursed lead many Caucasians to believe that every person of Negroid descent may be enslaved. The truth is, the only strain in the line of Ham that was cursed were the Canaanites, black tribes that descended from Canaan and occupied the Promised Land, called “the land of Canaan,” Israel. 

Many sects in early European Christianity villainized Ham as the cursed culprit, stating that God cursed Ham by making his skin black. This is nothing more than racism. We need only look at the names of Ham’s sons, all of whom were born before Canaan was cursed. Ham’s firstborn son was Cush whose name means black, and he was born before Noah issued any curse at all. Therefore, it is evident Ham carried the dominant genes in regards to skin pigmentation. Ham’s third son’s name was Mizraim, whose name meant soil red, or red soil. Hence, Ham carried melanin in his genes prior to the birth of Canaan, his youngest son. Ham has also been slandered by other so-called Bible scholars who state his wife was a descendant of Cain, the slayer of Abel, and that the mark God set on Cain made him black skinned. They allege that although Ham came from Noah, his wife was of the cursed line of Cain, a true Caininite. (Gen. 4:9-11, 15) The Bible does not indicate from which line any of Noah’s sons’ wives came from nor does it provide any clues to determine this type of information. This is another remnant of early racism that found its way into American churches. Not once in Scripture did God ever turn anyone’s skin black as a punishment. On the contrary, in Scripture, when God marked people’s skin, he always turned it white with the mark of leprosy. In displaying his power to Moses, God turned Moses’ hand white with the plague of leprosy then turned it back to its original color, the same color Moses’ African stepmother used to pass him off as a North African prince. (Heb. 11:24) Later, God cursed Moses’ sister, turning her skin “as white as snow” for speaking against Moses’ Ethiopian wife. (Num. 12:1, 10-11) Gehazi’s skin was turned “as white as snow” by a prophet of God for his abomination. (2 Kings 5:27) In Scriptures skin was never turned black because of some curse. On the contrary, it was always turned white, marked by the skin disease known as leprosy


vveasey profile image

vveasey 2 years ago from Detroit,MI Author

Bravo Dac!

What you wrote ties in perfectly with what this hub proves and your point about God cursing people by turning their skin white, leave no doubt that having "black" skin is the opposite of "cursed" skin.

And as you and I point out Ham wasn't cursed with black skin, according to those who wrote this story Ham's son, Canaan was cursed

but not with black skin.

Thanks again for your input, but be assured that, those who want to or need to believe. that Africans or African Americans were cursed with black skin, will continue to believe that no matter how much the truth hits them dead in face!


Keith Cannon 2 years ago

You need to read the Talmud if you want to really understand this,


Dac 2 years ago

Vitiligo is a condition in which white patches develop on the skin. Any location on the body can be affected and most people with vitiligo have white patches on many areas of the body.

Leprosy is a disease that has been known since biblical times. It causes skin sores, nerve damage, and muscle weakness that gets worse over time.


Dac 2 years ago

Now Naaman was commander of the army of the king of Aram. He was a great man in the sight of his master and highly regarded, because through him the Lord had given victory to Aram. He was a valiant soldier, but he had leprosy.

Now how can a


Dac 2 years ago

Namann was a Warrior a Soldier born with leprosy, not what they describe it today but viltingo an Italian word


Noah6 2 years ago

The same Talmud Keith Cannon that blasphemes The Messiah and besmirches the honor of His mother? The same Talmud that says that it's ok to be a pedophile, yet boasts authority even over Moshe and the Torah??? I think not!! Good post Dac and thank you vveasey for helping to awaken The Father's chosen people.


Rodric29 profile image

Rodric29 2 years ago from Phoenix, Arizona

I is almost like some people Black and other races have a need to believe that black skin is a curse in order to feel special. The Lord blessed Cain with a mark, but He did not specify it was black skin. Noah cursed Cainaan but only because his father Ham had married Egyptus who was not of the covenant blood as I understand it.


Dac 2 years ago

Revelation 2:9

I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, butare the synagogue of Satan.


Rodric29 profile image

Rodric29 2 years ago from Phoenix, Arizona

Vveasey, I missed your comment for some reason. Culturally, black skin is the product of White Europeans and the descendants trying to justify treating all others as second tier humans--especially the slavers.

The interesting thing about that lore is that I am a fast believer that the European culture and its offshoots are superior to the cultures that promote savage living--gang banging, cultism, children sacrifice, etc..

Those are the cursed people, who are black in their practices. Black skin is just a genetic disposition. Black souls are the product of living evilly.

I voted this up again because it is interesting


Maj-eye profile image

Maj-eye 2 years ago

Noah pronounced a curse upon Ham's son Canaan. Scripture indicates Ham may have had homosexual tendencies and he apparently either went into or peered into Noah's tent to look at his father's nakedness. This curse has had a lasting and huge impact on Ham and his generations thru his son Canaan. According to the Book of Genesis, Canaan was a son of Ham and grandson of Noah, and was the father of the Canaanites. "Cursed be Canaan; a slave of slaves shall you be to your brothers." (Gen.9:25) Ham's territory, we're told, extended all the way to Gaza (Africa). And the worst part of all this that most miss, deliberately ignore or choose to not believe, is the very last sentence in the last chapter of Zechariah 14:20. "And on that day (The Day of the Lord) there will no longer be a Canaanite in the house of the Lord Almighty." These were not the writings of modern day white supremacists. Moses wrote, or may have taken earlier writings Adam, Noah, Abraham Enoch Isaac, and Jacob, to write and compile the book of Genesis approx. 1450-1410 B.C., the book of Zechariah is among the most precisely dated books in the Bible, and is dated to about 520-518 B.C.


dianetrotter profile image

dianetrotter 2 years ago from Fontana

Three of the four gospel speak of Simon of Cyrene helping Jesus carry the cross. Many Jews have dark/black skin. Egypt, which borders Israel (ASIA), is in Africa. Jesus died that all men might be saved. A sinner is a sinner until saved by grace. People who study the Bible will not fall for the fable.

"Simon of Cyrene is mentioned in three of the four Gospels as the man impelled by the Roman soldiers to carry Jesus’ cross out of Jerusalem. His place of origin has led many to wonder if he was of African descent (and therefore black), or if he was simply born there as were many others of Greek, Roman, and Jewish descent."

Read more: http://www.gotquestions.org/Simon-of-Cyrene.html#i...


Sons of Zadok 2 years ago

Yes a black man, named Simon from Cycrene, helped Jesus carry the his cross, he was orderly to do so by the Roman Guard, but also Black Jews from Cyrene all so stoned the disciple Stephen to death, for specking the truth. Acts6:8-15, and7:1-60.


Kathy 2 years ago

Folks, being drunk is symbolic for being in love, nudity is symbolic of truth. Walking backwards and covering nudity is lying. Black is the symbol for occult which means "unseen". Ham was blessed, he understood. That makes him a threat so, turn the story backwards.


Che Rogers profile image

Che Rogers 2 years ago from Los Angeles, CA

The problem with this theory is it in facts curses the savior of the bible as well. The tribe of judah was full of cannanite mothers. Cannan was descendants of ham. Jesus Christ was said to be of the bloodline of the tribe of judah the very descendants of Ham. This not only points to the color skin jesus would have had it also points to the land of Cannan (modern day israel) being cursed. The descendants and their land was supposedly cursed so this not only curses the bibles savior but also its "holy land". Those who do know about how the bible and how it was put together by greeks and not the actual bible writers themselves who were african would understand how such confusion would be caused. It's the age old trick of taking someone's culture and making it to fit the conquerors culture. Can't have europeans worshipping an african Savior or descendents. What also is failed to realize is noah did the cursing not god. Noah cursed his own child for his drunkenness and indiscretion. More nonsense to think about.


RightDivider 2 years ago

The curse of Canaan is true and you cannot refute it. The descendents of Ham are the Black Africans and Egyptians and others. Africa is the land from where voodoo and false doctrine and lies come from. Shem was the father of the Jews and Asians, and Japheth was the father of the Europeans, the 'white man'. Notice the divisions stand across history whether you admit it or not. The blacks overall have to be carried. They do not have the same level of intelligence; there are exceptions but the exceptions do not overthrow the rule. The Japhethites the Europeans are the great builders and constructors and designers and the Jews and Asians are the great organizers and designers and the Japhethites are the great engineers.


Che Rogers profile image

Che Rogers 2 years ago from Los Angeles, CA

Rightdivider: you are wrong on so many levels. History, archeology and science show africans were the first on this planet and that ethiopia (kush) were the first to be given knowledge and wisdom. To claim europeans are smarter is asinine due to the simple fact it was africans mainly moors who gave europeans knowledge and brought them out of the dark ages. They taught them how to domesticate their animals, alchemy for medicines to keep them from dying from minor colds, astronomy etc. This is very well documented in history. Also megaliths and pyramids left behind predating European culture built by africans who were ages ahead of even modern day engineers and builders. The sphinx and pyramids are still standing thousands of years later yet europeans are tearing down and rebuilding structures after 40 to 50 years do to poor building. To say africans worshipped pagan gods and were pagans is also foolish. Christianity, judaism, islam, Hinduism etc all find their roots in ancient kush/kemet. African nations. So if africans religions were pagan and Christianity got its roots from africa what does that say about the Christian religion?


By their fruits 2 years ago

Nimrod was a hunter of men and beasts. Using captured beasts and using captured men. This antichrist is the source of mystery Babylon, its idols prevalent everywhere today. That said, like Caanan, not every black human was or is cursed. The Semitic Jews (Arabic), Hamitic Jews (African) , Japhethic Jews (European) are all in the church and Jews through Christ. "Do not suppose you can think to yourself "I am from the seed of Abraham I am superior and safe", for THE LORD can raise seeds of Abraham from these stones under your feet" Do you remember that THE LORD was refused by other nations and finally gave the Hebrews an ultimatum, accept me or the mountain shall crush you? Because of their lowliness there will be no room for man to glorify himself and all shall see the work of THE LORD. This isn't about skin color, as many of my brothers here seem to be afflicted with due to their Americanized afflictions. Blacks have enslaved Whites, Whites enslaved Blacks, all have felt it. Remember the laws and provisions made for servants, converts and foreigners. Such care and love with responsibility is from a righteous master, not a haughtiness and evil that all men have indulged before. Remember the flesh profits nothing. Remember THE LORD does not see a man the way men do, by the outward appearance but instead he knows the soul. Remember THE LORD is not a respecter of persons, is partial to none and does not share his glory bit by men make HIS glory known. To the one questioner, when you read Esau, who was unfavored this man had the spirit of Nimrod the hunter in him and it was this his folly.


Eden 2 years ago

Adam and Eve in the garden of Eden had to have the genes that are capable of producing all genetic makeups that you get everything from -- very dark black, black, dark, olive, red, yellow, white --

You guys only think black n white... Everytime I see these topics ppl forget the red skin native Americans, the olive Mediterraneans, the yellow Asians...

Very white and very black can only come from the genetic stock "in the middle". Black skin is not a curse. White skin is not leprosy, have you seen a white man with leprosy with spots and scars? Dear lord.. look on google what a white with leprosy looks like, so different. I dont know where you're from either but where I'm from the dirt or earth is reddish, not fair like sand or black like coal. Jesus said think everyone greater than yourselves anyway, we need a worldwide humbling cuz were all fallen short


Che Rogers profile image

Che Rogers 2 years ago from Los Angeles, CA

The term Jew is fairly new because hebrews never had a j in their alphabet up until the 17th century. It's how you know jesus isn't the true name of the messiah. There were no js back then. Hibaru or hebrew is more accurate. Genetically speaking you can't have two white parents create black children yet you can have two black (melinated) parents have a white child (albinoid). It's a genetic defect from the original man who was created in africa. Which means white people come from blacks. In fact all people originate from africa. We are all brothers and sisters. When discussing the source of knowledge, wisdom, spirituality, science, alchemy, chemistry etc one must go to the source which would be africa. We have been indoctrinated with the conquerors religions and philosophy who came in to africa and stole all of its knowledge. If not we are only learning in part from those who came thousands of years later after this knowledge was present and heavily taught in africa for aions. Now modern day historians and religious say all of Africa's knowledge and wisdom is pagan to discredit their history and accolades. Yet they use the symbolism and wisdom from these areas as their own. They deem aristotle and platos the father's of philosophy when it's a fact they both went to the school of luxor in africa to learn from africans. Same with Pythagoras. They were building pyramids long before he existed yet he is credited with being the father of geometry and the pythagorian therum. A square plus b square equals c square. The africans would have had to know these formulas in order to build the pyramids. Along with the olmecs in south america. The entire world went to kemet africa to learn their knowledge and no one today goes to the source because some racist intellectual deems them pagan. If the source of all knowledge was Japan or India I would say the same thing. Truth is truth and in this age of information you can't fool anyone anymore. You also have no excuse to be in darkness and ignorant of what is true.


Truth set free 2 years ago

There are many curses in scripture, none more so than curses upon the Hebrews themselves but never did they make them no longer Jews.

Lets entertain the thought please, if a son of Ham received a curse, and indeed made a change visually...is he still a son of Ham? Is he still related to Noah? Aren't all people anyway? Even Gentiles have heaven by the Noahide laws. It doesn't change anything. Are white people really just black people with a curse of cured leprosy? Are they not just Hebrews as well then still? Aren't White people then actually every bit your brother in the most intimate sense? A curse is just a curse for a specific thing, MANY HEBREWS WERE AND ARE STILL UNDER MANY DIFFERENT CURSES. Do you see the uninformed thinking here about racism by blacks,whites,brown etc. How Shameful and ignorant. Realize any Gentile man who of his free will converts is said to have been born already with a Hebrew soul? That there are OT LAWS to accept them and must be treated indistinguishable as a "native born". Understand? Re read what I've posted please and realize this


heatherj 2 years ago

Comment...I'm so very confused


Joshua Tree 2 years ago

It is both amusing and pathetic that blacks are so insecure. I mean, why wouldn't you be? Your entire history is one of utter failure, limited intelligence, violence, and lack of ability to defer gratification. Look up the word for MAN-ADAM in a Concordance. The Hebrew is the word AW-DAWM#120 (Im Strong's Concordance) Hebrew; from 119 Hebrew; to show blood (in the face), i.e. flush or turn rosy: — be (dyed, made) red (ruddy); a human being (an individual or the species, mankind etc.). Any pure-blooded Bantu descendants able to blush red? Of a ruddy complexion? Of course not! But because you have no history that is worthy of the name, you glom onto childish mythologies taught in afrocentric classes, the sole purpose of which is to make you feel better about being the dregs of the earth. You people even have the temerity to pretend "Wez used to be flyin, but ol' evil YT done stoled our ability". "Da White debil done kept the balk man down!". Excuse me, but how could the greatest race in the world be kept down by a bunch of albino apes? And kept you down? And how could a "great" people be crippled by calling you a "nigger". Apparently, only Whites are mature and intelligent to understand that "sticks and stones may break my bones but "nigger" will never hurt me". I have nothing against you. The Creator created you before he created Aw-dawm and declared you good, just like he declared the other beasts. But, your need to deceive yourselves makes you absolutely useless and incapable of knowing the truth. Look at Ferguson. Some young gansta gets shot and you people begin to destroy where you live. Most animals don't shit where they live. Loot, steal, rape, kill, and all because you can't admit what low-lives so many of your race are. Hopefully, someday we will segregate ourselves from you when we have learned the lesson that you and we are not "the same". We create. You destroy. Unless we put you in your place.


Rolling Thunder 2 years ago

@Joshua Tree What bloody rock did you come out from under?Speaking from a Native American perspective,It is the white race that is the scourge of the planet.After they putrified their own continent,they began to sprad out. There is not a place on this eart where they landed,where they did not bring death,destruction,disease,filth,murder,rape,deceit,lies. They defiled the earth with their filthy habits,and sucked the very life out of every environment they came upon. They kill for pleasure,rob for fun,and bring their distorted religion based on a god that hates. That is not just an angry Red man talking,it's history.


Drewski 19 months ago

FayFayCole is exactly right. Leviticus 18 (specifically verses 6-8) tells us exactly what the meaning of "uncovering your father's nakedness" means. The exact same Hebrew words are used for "uncover/see/saw a father's nakedness" in both instances of Genesis 9:22 and Leviticus 18: 6-8. It may appear that the account in Genesis chapter 9 is referring to Ham literally seeing his father naked in his tent, but if you read the entire chapter of Leviticus 18, you can see the true meaning of the phrase "saw his father's nakedness." If you believe that the Bible is infallible, you must also believe that every word and phrase is intentionally placed. That being said, I'd like to point out some interesting aspects of both Genesis 9 and Leviticus 18 (besides the obvious exactness of Hebrew context and wording used). In Genesis 9:6, we see the establishment of eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth justified punishment. In other words, the punishment must fit the crime. Then, beginning in Genesis 9:18, we notice the Author wants to make it crystal clear that Ham was the father of Canaan, as if to avoid any possible argument suggesting he was not. We see this intentional emphasis again in Genesis 9:22. Why such a distinction/emphasis? Look up the Hebrew significance of saying or repeating something twice. Too long to explain here. Understanding the Hebrew is crucial to understanding the events recorded in the Old Testament. First the Holy Spirit must provide revelation, but that revelation is impossible if you have no understanding of the original words used. The KJV and ESV English translations are the best as far as keeping close to the original Hebrew/Aramaic/Greek words used in original scripture, but if you are seeking to understand the Bible strictly through the English translations, I can absolutely promise, you will be like a dog chasing its tail. So why then does Noah curse his grandson? Because his grandson was a result of a horrific crime. Ham raped his own mother (as awful as it sounds and as difficult as it may be to accept) which resulted in an offspring defaulting to a genetic disadvantage. Don't assume that the Old Testament is some weird symbolic record of history. Noah didn't pronounce an actual curse on his grandson (again you need to understand the Hebrew words used in Genesis 9:25 to truly grasp), what he did was pronounce a certainty that Ham's offspring, due to incest, would be genetically cursed. This certainly fits into the notion of the "eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth/punishment must fit the crime" approach established in Genesis 9:6. Lastly, in Leviticus 18:3, it's strangely coincidental that Yahweh commands the Israelites to "not do as they do in Canaan, to which I AM bringing you" which also coincidentally precedes the definition of "seeing your father' nakedness."


Sorrybutitstrue 12 months ago

I stopped reading after your interpretation of Noah because if you cannot decipher a simple story the rest of your explanation must be wrong. Noah's nakedness alone had absolutely zero to do with the point of the story. The point of the story is that the first son was a worthless gossip. Instead of trying to cover up what his father had done and keeping it a secret he decided to blab to all about what had happened whereas his other 2 sons cared enough to cover Noah's mishap up so that no one else would know.

Imagine you yourself went out and got drunk and puked all over yourself and then pass out. Two of your friends get you cleaned up and then safely drive you home without telling anyone what ridicule you had caused yourself the night before. Meanwhile your other friend took a bunch of pictures of you and posted them all over Facebook. THIS is the bottom line the Bible is trying to get across. Do not be a lousy gossip, do not ridicule others.

Secondly, I myself have wondered lately if black people, not Indian, not arabic, but black skin and wooly hair bare the mark of Cain or some other cursed generation. The reason is that black people were oppressed world wide. Still to date very few races are tolerant of blacks. Point 2, every other culture in the world has endured slavery, genocide, concentration camps, and massacres. Yet the African American race, whom was sold into slavery by their own people, were freed and then turned around and destroyed the moral culture of America with their gangs, bastard children, drugs, and nasty music. Every neighborhood you go to where you find African Americans is riddled with drugs and crime. This is not the case with any other culture, not exclusively. Where you do have some bad neighborhoods sprinkled throughout the latino, white, and other cultures, this is not true for the black culture. ALL of their exclusively black neighborhoods are a breeding ground for destruction. Now today, rather than accepting their past and trying to be good people they do not. They feel as though they are entitled, they fight and riot to protect their criminals. They are aggressive, loud, and intimidating. It says in the Bible that the curse would be known by all. African Americans are the most hated race on the planet even hated by blacks in the continent of Africa.

I still care for black people as children of God and I have met a handful of really great black people, mostly of pure African decent, from the continent of Africa. I have met very few African Americans, born in America, that I like personally as far as allowing into my personal life in any way, shape, or form. I grew up in primarily black neighborhoods and all of my associates were black... it was a nightmare and it ruined my life for the first 23 years of it. Liars, crooks, gossips, rapists, criminals. Some of the nastiest things I have ever seen was in those neighborhoods.

Additionally, as I watch what is unfolding in Chicago right now I am really starting to believe that this race was oppressed for a time on purpose so that they could release their evil wrath in the last days which I believe are here now. I know this sounds horrible for me to have said, let me clarify again that I am not nasty towards black people and I do not condone hate or derogatory statements towards them but I stay far away from them. I know they do not like white people for a fact even when they "befriend" you they are not truly your friend they are always looking at you sideways and there is no loyalty at all, zero. My black female friends were always nasty, jealous, gossips. Getting pregnant at like 12 by grown men in their late 20's. Parents feeding their children from dirty floors, kids never had clothes on, bunch of drug dealers and criminals smoking their blunts and waving around their guns dancing to their nasty music with nasty lyrics. Even the "upper class" black families had a really bad problem with gossiping and sexual promiscuity. At least 3 times in my life I have slept over in a black families home to wake up and find an older cousin or uncle trying to climb on top of me and I never reported it because of the stereotype about white girls although I should have anyways. I have seen A LOT of incest. Cousins sleeping with cousins was VERY COMMON in the black community. Family reunions were like love connection.

I have lived on both sides of the fence and had friends from every culture known to man. By far my worst experiences were in black neighborhoods with black "friends". For all of these reasons I am starting to believe that this curse is true. Only God knows I guess but surely the signs are there. I do not believe this means black people cannot be redeemed, each person chooses whether they will obey God or not, I just think that it is much less likely because of their deeds and their cultural nature as far as what is accepted and what is not. Again I am not saying that no other culture engages in wrongful activities, what I am saying is that it is 100 times more prevalent in African Americans.


Rodric29 profile image

Rodric29 12 months ago from Phoenix, Arizona

I agree with you understanding for a bit in that much of the Black experience that I have has those elements, but I AM Black and I can tell you that you have taken all of the bad experiences that you've had and introduced them to the world as the standard experience! I find it offensive that you would say what you have said when you have not lived among any other culture. I have. I lived in Africa as a missionary for two years and I could characterized the Xhosa people that I lived among the same way that you mischaracterized my people. I have also lived among White people, which is the dominant culture in this nation and I have seen the SAME things that you claim are prevalent among my people. It is prevalent among all people. What I have noticed about White people as that they are better at concealing their sins and Black people do not care, specifically African Americans.

The curse of Cain and Ham follow all wicked people. Every person who does wickedly and revels in it is a son of Cain and the seed of Cain and the cursed of Cain. That includes all races who partake of the blood of devil worship by lying, cheating, stealing, killing and idol worship.

All people to it, but the White cultures of America villainize only the cultures who do not easily conform to White cultural trends. You obviously do not know what it is like to be a Black person in a White nation without a heritage other than slavery. People say that Blacks should get over it, but let someone take away your culture and heritage and supplant it with another one. Let us wait 400 years later and she the bastardized version of the new culture your people have when they know nothing but the ruling Culture and are taught that White is ugly for 20 generations.

Your judgement is premature. Your antidotal experience counts only for your associations. I have had experiences with White people and Black people of differing cultures. Some of them were good; many of them were good. Many of them were bad. The incest and rape occur in White cultures just a prevalently as in Black culture among the right and poor. Black people in America copy White culture because we know of no other culture since our ancestor where brought her against their wills. It does not matter who gave them up. White people ultimately decided that Black lives do not matter as much as White lives, which still is the case today. They also, your people, taught Blacks to loath ourselves. Many of us do. It will take 20 generations to undo what your people did to my people.

Now, I am grateful that my people were brought to America. In my faith, it teaches that no one was brought to this land without the express will of God. If the only way my people could come here was through slavery, then I accept that. I do not accept, however, that things you claimed about my heritage though I have experienced similar. My kid, I have six, are not the way you characterize Black people and they are fully Black both my wife and I are Black.

I am hurt that you went through those experiences because I went through them too. I was surprised to know that White people when through the same issue, the poor and the rich. White people are not imprisoned as often as my people for illegal possession and sale of drugs, which makes White drug dealers a better business opportunity for suppliers. When I was in high school a white person tried to sale me drugs. That does not mean all white people are drug dealers. Yes, and he scared me because he was violent and unpredictable—he even force his friendship on me due to my fear and because we claimed the same religious faith.

Most of my people are in poverty, including me. It has only been one generation since the Civil Rights Movement. Give us 20 generations to undo what it took your people 20 generations to do to us. If we are not good by then you may have something to stand on. As of right now, you are out of line and lack and understanding of African American history and you own heritage.

Black lives matter just as much as White lives but not many people believe it because it is harder for us to blend into White society than other races.

Any way, I liked your view of Moses and his experience with Ham. What an awful way to treat his father and the father of us all! Ham did marry out of the covenant. His children with his first wife would not have access to the birthright of the children of God because of the things that Egyptus would teach them. I believe Ham married another wife--or several. All of his children were not cursed to the covenants of God. All those would would submit to Jehovah were removed from the curse.


MizBejabbers profile image

MizBejabbers 9 months ago

I'm really enjoying your hubs about race, how it came to be, and racism. I can't agree with everything you've said, but I think you make some very valid points in this one and every one that I've read. I've always thought that the curse on Canaan meant the nation rather than the grandson, but what do I know?

What I do think is that the bible is full of BS, but if a person wades through the BS and tosses it aside, the real messages come out. The story of Noah and his curse on Ham, to me, is some of the BS. Too bad some Christians take it seriously.


vveasey profile image

vveasey 9 months ago from Detroit,MI Author

Agreed!


Seeker of Truth 8 weeks ago

V,

As you appear to be doing, I too have searched for defenses against institutionalized racism. In doing do, I have come upon many different "explanations" for racism, including two based in the Bible. Most of these "explanations" are easily turned away, being based upon many false premises, but I have come upon one that I have yet to be able to find a definitive answer to, which is why I have sought you out. Here is, for lack of a better term, the other "Biblical" explanation for racism I have been told of.

First, one of the above commentors, Joshua Tree, briefly touched upon it with his explanation of Adam, but he failed to get to the point I am trying to refute. To cut to the chase, what I have been told is that Adam was the first white man, (as Joshua Tree above was trying to assert), and that blacks are mentioned in the Bible, but are given the unceremonious moniker "beast of the field". Have you, in your studies and travels, ever come upon this explanation for the existence of this term before? Indeed, it does appear in the Bible, it even appears when speaking of Noah's loading the animals into the Ark, in a great number of translations. It also appears in Isaiah 56:9. A website I have found that puts forth this idea is fathersmanifesto.net/beast.htm. If you read the entire page, it gives all sorts of Biblical references for this interpretation, and I have to admit, it gives a pretty good defense of this point of view. Can you help me to both understand and to overcome this insidious "argument" that the Bible condones and teaches this type of belief?

-Seeker


vveasey profile image

vveasey 8 weeks ago from Detroit,MI Author

Seeker of Truth

thanks for your comments.

I don't take anything that's said in genesis as truth or the "gospel" on how the earth and people came to be. I'm just pointing out the absurdity of these writings.

People have been using this old testament story, as well as other biblical stories, to justify, whatever they want to justify. If they kill you, treat you like shit, they can say, Oh it's not me, the bible says it or that's it's ok. The so called old and new testaments weren't always together in one book. Bible just means book. Just research the history of how they came to be in one book, when they're from two different religions. A lot of politicking is involved. It's all about controlling people's minds and resources

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