Are chemtrails real and contrails a con?

Contrails or chemtrails - what is the truth?

It has been said that there are two types of people on this planet - "those who read Nexus magazine and those who don't." I am in the first category and came upon the term chemtrail in the publication probably as far back as ten years ago.

Since then I began to see trails in the sky being left by planes that were not like the jet contrails I was used to - the ones that soon fade away. Over the years I noticed more and more of the new long-lasting contrails that over time spread out into fake clouds. I began to research the subject more and found that a movement of people was forming worldwide who were watching, cataloguing, writing about and campaigning against the ever-growing mess that is being made of the skies by trails being left by planes.

Contrails or chemtrails?

Persistent trails over Tenerife 2007
Persistent trails over Tenerife 2007

Best Chemtrail videos

Chemtrail photos

Stop Chemtrails poster
Stop Chemtrails poster
Sun halo in Tenerife
Sun halo in Tenerife
Bard of Ely's Stop Chemtrails Tshirt
Bard of Ely's Stop Chemtrails Tshirt
Typical sky over Cardiff, July 2007
Typical sky over Cardiff, July 2007

So what are "chemtrails?

If you run a Google search on "chemtrails" you will find thousands of entries for websites devoted to the subject, forums where chemtrails are discussed daily, videos in their hundreds on YouTube, chemtrail sites on Myspace and much more evidence that something is going on that millions of people are very concerned about. However, if you open a newspaper or watch the TV news you will never see any mention of chemtrails. If concerned citizens contact the authorities they either get brushed off with some lame response or ignored. Environmental activist group Greenpeace has been strangely silent on the matter too.

Naturally for people who are looking for the truth about what is going on so openly in the skies overhead, and finding little or no response from government and other officials or the mainstream media, these people are going to get very suspicious. Those who are already "truthseekers" and "conspiracy theorists" will probably already know about the matter and have decided that chemtrails are real, a threat to us and, indeed, proof of the reality of a very big conspiracy. Authors like David Icke have added chemtrails into the subjects they discuss in their books and lectures. Alex Jones has recently starting talking about the topic as well. Canadian journalist William Thomas, who is credited as one of the first people to be kicking up a fuss about chemtrails, wrote Chemtrails Confirmed. Clifford Carnicom researched the matter in very great depth and set up a website examining the subject of chemtrails. Like Thomas, Carnicom's name will be well known to anyone concerned with what is going on with regard to chemtrails.

However, because a vast number of people choose to follow what they are informed of by official sources, and amazingly, because yet more people haven't even noticed what has happened to the skies, two camps have been formed - there are the chemtrail believers and activists and the non-believers and debunkers of the matter. One of the debunkers who is calling himself JazzRoc I actually know personally, and he has been posting messages all over the chemtrail sites on YouTube claiming that the trails are nothing more than "soda pop." JazzRoc says that the trails are caused by humidity factors and that persistent contrails are not a new phenomena but that we see more because there is more air traffic. He asserts that there is nothing harmful being sprayed out of the planes and that people are becoming ill due to air pollution and other factors, including making themselves that way thinking about it. This is a subject we have had to agree to disagree upon, although I am not saying he is wrong on all of it.

Although most of the media has been silent the Discovery Channel broadcast an episode in their Best Evidence series in which they took a look at the subject in a program called Chemical Contrails. Journalist Victoria Hardy had an article published in American Chronicle entitled A Doctor Speaks Out About Chemtrails, in which she reports on what Dr Stephen D. McKay has said about the matter.

According to Hardy, Dr McKay had been contacted by the BBC and Channel 4 television stations in the UK to work in an advisory capacity for documentaries on weather modification and geo-engineering projects. He says that there are four different projects employing chemtrails - the first of which being an attempt to block the suns rays and halt global warming to a degree by using a sunscreen devised by the late Dr Edward Teller and made up of aluminum oxide particles. Dr McKay also said that the US Navy's Radio Frequency Mission Planner is using the chemtrails as a miltitary program, that a further project was also using barium salts to modify the weather based on Nikola Tesla discoveries, and finally, that the Defence Advanced Research Projects Agency (DARPA) is utilising barium in the atmosphere for undisclosed purposes.

Barium is a toxic element and is said to have been found in above normal amounts in water samples in areas subjected to chemtrails and many people believe this as well as aluminum, is what is making them ill. A wide range of symptoms are being attributed to chemtrails including: asthma, allergies, flu-like illness, respiratory and sinus problems, nose bleed, fatigue and depression, tinnitus, sight problems and inflammation of the eyes,dizziness, skin rashes, high blood pressure and pneumonia. Another very weird disease has been added to the list and it is known as Morgellons. It is characterised by a sensation of crawling under the very inflammed skin and coloured fibers emerging from it. Morgellons is a subject nearly as big as chemtrails so Google it to find out more.

Other toxins like diethylene bromide are said to be found after chemtrails have been sprayed over the skies and pathogens including moulds, viruses, and even dessicated human blood cells. Many people have reported a very fine web that has been left all over everything in the wake of overhead chemtrail activity. It is also theorised that drugs such as Valium and Prozac have been made into aerosol form and are being used to drug the population on a mass scale. Admitted spraying of aluminum chaff by the miltary has been reported over Germany and Europe and over parts of the US. Aluminum is linked with causing Alzheimer's disease and whether it is in the air in the form of aluminum salts, aluminum metallic particles or aluminum chaff, my logic says that it represents a threat to out health and shouldn't be there!

It is not just the persistent trails that people are seeing but also strange atmospheric phenomena like sun halos and "chembows," which are rainbow colours showing in the fake cloud cover. By night a new phenomenon is also being seen known as "noctilucent clouds" in which the clouds are seen to glow. As a nature lover I have spent all my life looking at the world around me but I had never seen a sun halo until last year and now I have seen several. Chemtrails were also present in the skies - what a coincidence!

Many people believe that a very sinister depopulation program has been put into operation and that the chemtrails are a big part of it. This theory includes the idea that the public are being increasingly weakened on a cumulative basis so the immune system cannot function and that the victims will become seriously ill and/or die. The fact that the authorities are saying nothing is being seen as a sign of this threat being very real because what government would want to admit that billions are being spent on killing the people off?

Weather modification programs are definitely real as is the subject of weather warfare, and I suggest that if you are interested that you Google these terms.

Rosalind Peterson set up californiaskywatch.com, and her site states clearly: "We believe that no one, no government agency or private corporation, has the right to pollute our air or drinking water supplies, modify our weather, or impact the living environment around us (even the upper atmosphere), without our consent."

Rosalind says that it is better to use the term "persistent contrail" than chemtrail because the United States Airforce has officially stated that chemtrails are a hoax and based on this the media will not touch the subject if that word is used.

Many people researching and protesting about chemtrails believe that the HAARP experimental research centre in Alaska is using the chemtrails for various purposes including weather modification. Certain types of artificial cloud patterns are being said to be caused by HAARP, which employs technological discoveries by Nikola Tesla.

Besides the varied theories about what the chemtrails are there are ways that are being used to combat them and their effects. Orgonite based on the discoveries of Wilhelm Reich is believed to protect against chemtrails and devices known as "chembusters," also based on Reich's work are being made and sold to get rid of the trails.

It has been admitted that an ongoing program is being put into operation of aerial spraying of the California Bay area with Checkmate pesticide to control the Little Brown Apple moth, which is said to be a pest. What damage this will do to the health of people and wildlife is unknown. The program is set to spray the area monthly and is going on for years. People who know about it are not surprisingly angry and want this stopped. I mention this because, although it is not the sort of chemtrail spraying we see all over the skies, it is a form of spraying being done using planes and using potentially toxic substances. For more info on this I advise searching on "Checkmate spraying in California"

Update: A change of my belief

Since starting this hub, yesterday to be precise, I have had a major realisation from listening to what JazzRoc had to say in the course of the very heated discussion in the comments below. I realised that my association of sun halos being caused by something harmful from chemtrails because I saw them when these trails had been in the sky was wrong. Yes, they are caused by what is in the atmosphere but I was wrong about it being harmful and I am now in agreement with JazzRoc that it was ice crystals from the water vapour up there. I had blinded my thoughts to this by my belief in the chemtrail conspiracy and by my great distrust of science - something JazzRoc points out in his blog that many of us fear science and don't understand it. I do believe that many scientists lie and are paid to but that doesn't mean that they all do, nor does it mean that their inventions and discoveries are evil - it depends on how they are used.

The moment of realisation was that I know that halos are NOT caused by dust or solid particles but by the properties of water in the atmosphere just like we get around the moon and which can give a rainbow coloured halo. A moon halo is something I regard as normal having seen them all my life. So by a process of logic I see that what I have been calling chemtrails, in a very large number of cases, would be water vapour persistent contrails as has been claimed by non-chemtrail-believers and official sources like the BBC.

This realisation, of course leads me to wondering if other "believers" have blinded themselves by their own belief in the conspiracy and a great distrust in science and governments? And I am wondering why authors and noted researchers cannot see the simple logic here? Are they similarly blinded or are they choosing to lie to back up what they are saying?

JazzRoc also points out that solid particles of aluminium, barium, sulphur etc would clog up the engines of a plane and so could not be used that way, and that is something I was already in agreement with him on but have been thinking in terms of separate tanks and sprayers. That commercial airlines do not have these I am sure he is right about, although military and specially customised planes used in weather modification can so I haven't switched sides completely!

A major realisation that has gone with this is that our skies must have become far more full of water and that chemtrail-believers have been seeing the trails that persist because of this as proof of conspiracy against us. It is not but it is proof on there being a big change in what is up there and it appears that the amount of water vapour in the sky is increasing and so with it the trails and cloud coverage resulting. I would highly recommend that anyone reading this also reads JazzRoc's comments and his blog which he has provided the link for in the comments below.

And finally, I am leaving all the rest of this as it was in this hub so people can make up their own minds about what is real and what is not! My personal reality has shifted thanks to JazzRoc!

NB: I recommend most highly a site that JazzRoc praises too that explains what is going on really well, as well as answering chemtrail believers. Please visit http://www.contrailscience.com

Chemtrail sites

I wore a T-shirt saying that chemtrails should be stopped and I wrote and had published an article in Tenerife News entitled: Contrails or Chemtrails and Freak Weather

But I encourage you to do your own research and come to your own conclusions. I don't think anyone has the full facts on this matter. As John Lennon once wrote and sang:

"Nobody told me there´d be days like these, strange days, indeed..."

For more info: Rosalind Peterson's site: http://www.californiaskywatch.com/

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Comments 158 comments

SweetiePie profile image

SweetiePie 8 years ago from Southern California, USA

Informative hub. I learned something new.


Bard of Ely profile image

Bard of Ely 8 years ago from Lisbon, Portugal Author

Thanks for responding, SweetiePie!


randomlight 8 years ago

Nice summation; well done.


Fabrizio 8 years ago

Hi Bard,

good article. Yes, chemitrails are real but important is detect and differe them from the common contrails. Of course, the amount of metallic matter in them is a good way for understand they are not a simple condensation.


Bard of Ely profile image

Bard of Ely 8 years ago from Lisbon, Portugal Author

Thanks for posting, randomlight and Fabrizio!


Darol (cd4sunshine) 8 years ago

Very nicely put Bard although the small part about reference to "persistant contrails vs. Chemtrails" really makes no difference as the USAF is gonna say no matter what ya wannna callem, they have always been there and ain't hurtin' no one,,,,,RIGHT

Darol


Bard of Ely profile image

Bard of Ely 8 years ago from Lisbon, Portugal Author

I am sure you are right, Darol, but I put that in because I know Rosalind thought it was important and I was attempting to give as full a picture as possible!


shipsuperstore profile image

shipsuperstore 8 years ago from NC,USA

Many a conspiracy at the top they will never tell us, thanks for the insight and I did see the show you referenced on Discovery.

 Good job.

B


Bard of Ely profile image

Bard of Ely 8 years ago from Lisbon, Portugal Author

Thank you! It was good that Discovery did a program on it and even though it didn't really go very far it nevertheless was one of the first reports by the media to give any coverage to the subject!


Madhavi Bhatia 8 years ago

Dear Bard, this is a rather horrifying subject. I've never actually heard of this before. The only chemical trails that i"ve heard of are the ones behind jet planes and ofcourse spills of pesticides and insecticides that ae sprayed by planes on the american and russian farms. Would you please write a more encyclopedic article on this on the copper wiki . My friends and i would be extremely grateful. The site is http://www.copperwiki.org Do check out some of the articles on sunscreen and eco fibres and please do send feedback when and if you get the time. thanks


Bard of Ely profile image

Bard of Ely 8 years ago from Lisbon, Portugal Author

Thanks for posting, Mhadavi, and I agree it is a "horrifying subject" and this is perhaps why some people go into denial about it and say everything is OK and its just vapour trails. This puzzles other people who are alarmed by what they can see in the sky and what they have found out. And these trails and skies covered in the artificial clouds they make is a new occurrence. If you look at photos from around the world from over ten years back there are normal skies with blue skies and white clouds ot perhaps grey ones but never skies streaked with trails and skies covered in whitish haze from such trails. It just doesn't add up! When I left the Uk in 2004 the sky wasn't covered in trails but when I went back in 2007 it was! Something has changed! If you add in the admitted reports of military chaff then of course people will be concerned. Whatever is going on it has, as you can see here, spawned a whole new terminology and a movement of people.

If I can find time I will submit an article for that site so thank you for the suggestion!


Life_of_Purpose1 profile image

Life_of_Purpose1 8 years ago from Imperial, Missouri

Bard,

Great post! I have been talking to people about chemtrails quite a bit. It is about awareness and getting others informed. Most people have not even a second thought to look up and see the obvious "writing in the sky". They are getting better and better in making them look like nice, natural whispy clouds to fool the sheeple. We notice how there will be criss crosses all over the sky one day and the next couple, none. I wonder if we will ever know the truth, what they are, why, and how do they detirme where they spray. There have been many postulations of the ominous reasons to spray of which include keeping us from evolving spiritually and achieving enlightenment. I find it an interesting speculation as most things in this world, especially instituted by the government, do carry this side effect.

Looking forward to learning and sharing more...

Namaste,

Dre


The How To Hub profile image

The How To Hub 8 years ago from Australia

A little timeline - I am 31 years old and have grown up in Australia. As a teenager I used to see the trails and think they were cool, you know like the airforce jets with the coloured smoke displays.....my perspective as an adult is ....HORROR. What kind of world are we going to leave our future generations?


Bard of Ely profile image

Bard of Ely 8 years ago from Lisbon, Portugal Author

Thanks for posting, Dre and Shaye!

Dre, I have heard the points you have made but I thank you for posting them here for others to read.

Shaye, I have a British friend who doesn't accept that chemtrails are harmful but who thinks they are pretty. PersonallyI think, and a lot of people share this opinion, whether they are harmful or not, a sky with old-fashioned fluffy clouds that make ptictures in the sky for the mind's eye are far superior aesthetically that a sky grafitted with lines and criss-crosses and finally a whitish haze of false cloud. And that is another part of it - weather forecasts nowadays often talk about haze and hazey conditions. We never used to have all this haze but had skies with clouds or without but not the mess that is so often there now. As Dre, has pointed out some days there is none of this and then the skies return to how they were meant to be.


Karen Ellis profile image

Karen Ellis 8 years ago from Central Oregon

We have them here in Oegon as well. It seems this is a world wide problem????

On the days tha chemtrails are being used, the planes criss-cros the sky and before you know it, instead of a beautiful blue skied day, you have complete overcast.


Bard of Ely profile image

Bard of Ely 8 years ago from Lisbon, Portugal Author

Yes, Karen, and the picture you describe is being reported over and over and over again and IF anyone manages to get any sort of response from anyone official they will say that what is being seen is normal and they are harmless contrails! How can it be harmless to cut out the light with such a cloud cover? Of course, it can't! We never used to have skies like these!

Thanks for posting!


The Bull 8 years ago

Bard,

Wow...You have opened my eyes and mind at the same time...

I live in the Northeast on the coast of the US...minutes from the Bush compound- Walkers point.

The airspace is littered with intenational flights heading to Boston's Logan and various NY hubs.

We also maintain one of the largest US Airforce runways at Portsmouth, NH Pease Air base (only SAC refuling now).

The resulting asthma, allergies, flu-like illness, respiratory and sinus problems, nose bleed, fatigue and depression, tinnitus, sight problems and inflammation of the eyes,dizziness, skin rashes, high blood pressure and pneumonia STATISTICS would be very interesting to calculate for this region.

Do you have any ideas how I may find this information out tatistically?

TheBull


Bard of Ely profile image

Bard of Ely 8 years ago from Lisbon, Portugal Author

Thanks for posting, Bull!

I don't personally know how you'd get such answers but I would thank that someone at the chemtrailtrackingusa forum would and what's more the members would welcome such an idea - there is often the call there for ways of doing something that produces scientific data that can be given to the authorities and the debunkers so they can be asked to explain it! In other words we need to be able to talk their language back at them. Please consider joining and posting there if only for the one thread. The link is at the bottom of my article.


rmr profile image

rmr 8 years ago from Livonia, MI

Very informative! I have been reading about contrails for years, but I have never heard them referred to as chemtrails before. I have noticed, though, that many of them do seem to have a lot more hang time lately. I live relatively close to a major airport, and have noticed that, on some days, there are upwards of 100 contrails in the sky, while on others there are only a few.


Bard of Ely profile image

Bard of Ely 8 years ago from Lisbon, Portugal Author

Thanks for your feedback, rmr!

You have a mystery there whether they are harmless or not! Debunkers of the subject say the trails only persist in certain atmospheric conditions to which my question is why did such conditions not exist until in the last decade or so in which chemtrails have been reported? There are two airports on this island and plenty of planes in and out but mostly no chemtrails, however, when I went back to Cardiff in Wales last year the skies were covered in trails daily as was the airport there and it didn't used to be like that!


Lou Purplefairy profile image

Lou Purplefairy 8 years ago from Southwest UK

Great hub Steve, and as you well know a subject close to my heart as an active campaigner for the awarenes of persistent contrails (chemtrails). We have lots and lots of PC (persistent contrails) here in Devon Uk, and most ppl do not bat an eyelid at them, till I alert them to the possibility of what they actually are and how to tell them apart from real contrails. Most ppl are surprised that this subject is not covered by the media, and the intelligent ones are concerned by its conspicuous absence, as it it not even ridiculed as a hoax in the media. I have witness chembows (as you know) sun halos and a myriad of PC's in various formations. The freak weather we have had in economically poor areas in recent times is confirmation for me that some sort of NWO plan to eradicate "the useless eater population" is in full swing. I still do my research and blog on the matter.


Bard of Ely profile image

Bard of Ely 8 years ago from Lisbon, Portugal Author

Thanks for the feedback, Lou, and yes, I know you know what is going on!


JazzRoc profile image

JazzRoc 8 years ago from El Medano, Tenerife, Canary Islands

You may believe that chemtrails are real, O Bard, but you are wrong.

You are wrong, and you cannot prove you are right. Your "proof" is that "thousands of people say so".

These people that "say so" share many, and perhaps all, of the attributes of people that believe the Earth is flat, the Sun goes round the Earth, that God made Man "in his own image" (6,000 years ago!), and we CANNOT possibly have evolved from an ape-like creature five million years ago, that we are "imbued with a soul", and if we "please God" we will "go to Heaven" after our body dies and rots.

These people are DELUDED by their own ignorance and fear. They, on the whole, suffered through their educational period (personally I found it unpleasant even while top of the a-stream in a grammar school) and never learned to respect the opinions of people more able than they were to grasp essential scientific principles. Otherwise they would, of course, believe the word of atmospheric scientists who have for decades been telling these people that persistent contrails are a natural by-product of large-scale mass air transit.

The first queries as to why the sky turned white were made in the late fifties and early sixties, so the topic is NOT exactly a new one. Even before that collisions occurred between close-flying Flying Fortress bombers on 1000-bomber daylight bombing raids on Germany between 1943 and 1945 when they too turned the skies white with the exhausts from their 18-cylinder radial engines in particularly cold and humid conditions.

If a million tons of kerosine are burned daily (yes!) in the stratosphere, which is thin and cold and easily humidified with relatively small amounts of water, then large areas of the sky are going to turn WHITE. This is the "white" of ice crystals - water!

The rest is fanciful paranoia, with a small amount of LIES, DECEIT and FRAUD. For that, blame Carnicom and some ignorant and some shameless YouTubers.

You should be ashamed of yourself. If you were better-educated, Bard, you would be. Your activity is harming society.

I have amassed quite a lot of support literature at

http://jazzroc.wordpress.com and invite your responses...


Bard of Ely profile image

Bard of Ely 8 years ago from Lisbon, Portugal Author

Thanks for posting your opinions, Jazzroc, however, I am no further convinced by your arguments!


JazzRoc profile image

JazzRoc 8 years ago from El Medano, Tenerife, Canary Islands

Perhaps after all you REALLY ought to read my wordpress blog.

In it you will find confirmation of everything I have mentioned above, and directly-attributable quotes from specialist atmospheric scientists, graphs, details and photographs of almost all relevant material, specific proofs of chemtrailers' fraudulent claims and blow-by-blow debunks of EVERY chemtrail claim.

What more can one do, when confronted by a deluded and harmful person who is determined in his ignorance to do further harm?

Well, advise you NOT to visit the US, I suppose. THERE they have the Patriot Act (which is not my idea of nice legislation!)

What you are doing falls within the parameters of that act, and newly-trained and less sympathetic people there might well take it upon themselves to "educate" you, seeing as you are obviously determined never to do the job yourself.

Even in a British society noted for its tolerance of stupidity you might find that at some time in the near future (these are changing times!) your ignorant disregard of scientific principles, technocratic excellence and social decency will cause you to fall foul of the law.

Don't ever say I didn't warn you...


Bard of Ely profile image

Bard of Ely 8 years ago from Lisbon, Portugal Author

JazzRoc, I have read your blog, and as it happens it is now probably being read by some freemasons - as I saw earlier that one has left a link to it and a recommendation in the Universal Freemason's message board of which I am a member.

I have told you that I don't agree with you but you do not appear to be able to agree to disagree but become insulting and threatening in tone (warning me) and how you expect anyone to want to hear from you when you adopt these ways I really don't know. However, as I have also told you, I don't believe that this subject should all be a one-sided debate of chemtrail believers agreeing with chemtrailbelievers and on the other side the scientific debunkers all debunking - I would suggest that both sides have much to learn but they cannot do so if stuck viewpoints are held! You happen to believe in science and have a lot of faith in it and I don't simple as that. You don't believe in God and I do!

I happen to agree with you that there are people who are ill and blaming chemtrails may not be ill from chemtrails but from other sources. I also agree with you that the crosses are in completely different levels of the sky and only look like crosses from down below. You see I don't totally disagree with you but on the other hand I am convinced that chemtrails are very real and that weather modification is one definite use they are being put to, but I have told you that before.

You call people "uneducated" but what does that mean? It means that they don't happen to agree with the official version of things perhaps - I certainly don't! Scientists can and do lie and if you want an example, fluoride is one that springs to mind and mercury amalgam being another! There are many people active in the opposition to chemtrails who are educated to university standard eg Dr Stephen McKay whom I have mentioned in the article. I happen to have a BA degree, a diploma in media, 5 A-levels and 6 O-levels and that counts as educated by most people's standards. Education though is often indoctrination and manipulation turning out people to carry on the system and brainwashed to believe what they are told not to think for themselves!


JazzRoc profile image

JazzRoc 8 years ago from El Medano, Tenerife, Canary Islands

"it is now probably being read by some freemasons" - what a horrible thought!

"Universal Freemason's message board of which I am a member" - what, another horrible thought!

"insulting and threatening in tone" - without a doubt you are a fool, for you are still ever-ready to accept baseless arguments and reject the remorseless logic of mine. I advised you not to visit the US, nor Britain after 2012. Personally I'll admit to finding it difficult to be pleasant to someone like you who is practically as dangerous as a bomb-wielding terrorist with your spreading of lies and fear. I regard you now exactly the way I regard arms dealers. You are living in a safe spot and a safe era where your wickedness is going unpunished, but that won't last for ever.

"you expect anyone to want to hear from you" - I certainly won't lie to gain plausibility like the people YOU believe.

"both sides have much to learn" - Science and the truth of Science is not a democracy. Only ONE side is utterly ignorant in this case, and it's YOURS. You have learnt nothing and are telling lies as a consequence.

"You happen to believe in science and have a lot of faith in it" - I put no FAITH in Science. That's like putting FAITH in Mathematics. Is one FAITHFUL to LOGIC, or merely LOGICAL?

"You don't believe in God and I do!" - Which God is this? The jealous one? The one who made the Universe in six days six thousand years ago?

"I am convinced that chemtrails are very real" - As real as your god, santa claus, and the tooth fairy.

"weather modification is one definite use they are being put to" - Sure thing. The three million four hundred thousand tons of barium required to provide a mono-molecular coating over the whole Earth would only take eighty-five thousand tanker sorties using one and a half million tons of fuel. And, of course, next week, you'd have to repeat it, etc.

"You call people "uneducated" but what does that mean?" - It means believing "weather modification is one definite use they are being put to".

"Educated" is what I have just demonstrated to you: the ready use of mathematics and a true knowledge of the properties of the Earth to show you just what foolishness you speak.

"I happen to have a BA degree, a diploma in media, 5 A-levels and 6 O-levels and that counts as educated by most people's standards" - Hmm. And I've seen those standards fall year after year.

By my standards you are DIM. If I were as dim as you are I'd keep my stupid mouth shut. It seems you are too dim to understand how dim you are. That IS a shame...

"believe what they are told, not to think for themselves" - How ironic! Shine a light on that...ah, but your batteries are low, and your light bulb glows a faint orange... lacking scientific understanding, you cannot see how misled you have been, and how misleading and dangerous you now are.


Bard of Ely profile image

Bard of Ely 8 years ago from Lisbon, Portugal Author

It appears from all that that we are no longer friends seeing as you keep on insulting me and are so bigoted in your views. You do not allow others freedom of thought and opinion and are another form of the thought police.

Yes, I do believe people like David Icke and Clifford Carnicom whom you condemn.

I have tried to present a balance of views here by letting you have your say and included them in the article above but it clearly isn't working and maybe this is why all the chemtrail sites block you?

The Freemason who has posted your link found it here where you posted it and that is freedom of information as it should be!

Seeing as you think so lowly of me now what do you make of Beck who has released a new song called Chemtrails? I applaud him for putting the subject in the mainstream world of pop music!


Eric Graudins profile image

Eric Graudins 8 years ago from Australia

I've never heard of chemtrails. Thanks for writing this hub.

JazzRoc - If your case is correct, you've considerably weakened it by the way you have chosen to argue your point here.


Bard of Ely profile image

Bard of Ely 8 years ago from Lisbon, Portugal Author

Hi Eric! Thanks for posting!


JazzRoc profile image

JazzRoc 8 years ago from El Medano, Tenerife, Canary Islands

Eric, my case is correct. If I were arguing with someone who simply misunderstood contrails I might be more polite, but there is more to it than that. You would do well to leaf through http://jazzroc.wordpress.com

Bard: "we are no longer friends" - that's as it should be. You won't find arms dealers in my list of friends either.

"you keep on insulting me" - I keep on describing you as an ignorant person who is way above your head, and causing harm within our society by insisting that people you do not know are deliberately poisoning the whole of our society, using baseless assertions and faulty reasoning. You've GOT to be stupid, because I cannot see you as THAT intelligent and malevolent.

"so bigoted in your views" - I see you've decided I'm not "programmed" (that's the usual one) so I must be simply bigoted.

It seems to me that you consider the understanding of science to be a form of bigotry. Well, we live in a scientific and technological world, and here we are using that very technology to conduct this argument. You are arguing with a man who has tested jet engines in their test beds, helped in the construction of the supersonic wind tunnel used to test the Concord's engines, helped in the construction of the nuclear decanning plant in Windscale, helped in the construction of the world's first ethernet network, and the world's first modern electric city car. (And many other things, but that's by-the-by).

I know exactly how gas turbines work and exactly how their exhausts work in the stratosphere, and exactly how the stratosphere functions from my personal work experience. This isn't a "view". I can BUILD these things.

You turn up with your "fear of science", read a whole bunch of foolish and baseless and totally inaccurate assumptions in a scientific field you don't understand at all, and accuse INNOCENTS of attempted GENOCIDE. Who is the BIGOT here?

"You do not allow others freedom of thought and opinion" - This IS "freedom of thought and opinion". How can your statement be correct?

"are another form of the thought police" - Really!

"I have tried to present a balance of views" - We aren't talking about a "balance of views". Science is not a "balance of views". You're either CORRECT or WRONG.

"it clearly isn't working" - It's working fine from my perspective. You are doing EVIL and I'm trying to prevent you, albeit unsuccessfully so far. I'm trying to sting you into some feeling of remorse for what you are doing, and hoping that you might, after all, educate yourself out of your delusion.

I'm also showing others that this ludicrous topic is opposed by scientists and other educated people. It is we who are doing things in this society, we who provide the wealth and power for travel and information systems (like this one) to the benefit of everyone. We have been able to do this by years of poorly-paid study, experiment and practice. We are professionals and deserve respect for our abilities and achievements - not this ignorant and shocking diatribe to which we are subjected.

In 1981, as our small team of electronics engineers clustered around an oscilloscope in a Wood Green laboratory which was demonstrating for the first time in the world that it was possible to send information down a wire at a rate of a hundred megabits per second (and we knew we were witnessing the start of a world revolution in information), nothing would have led me to believe that twenty-seven years later I would find myself using this fabulous system to conduct arguments about contrails with dumbed-down and deluded pseudo-scientists.

How IRONIC!


Bard of Ely profile image

Bard of Ely 8 years ago from Lisbon, Portugal Author

"I'm trying to sting you into some feeling of remorse for what you are doing, and hoping that you might, after all, educate yourself out of your delusion." - You are trying to tell me what to do and how to think and no one has the right to do that to anyone else!

Do you send your insulting opinions to all the well known authors/speakers who believe and talk about chemtrails or do you only post your one-sided opinion and rudeness on the sites of people like me and those who post chemtrail videos? And if you feel that America and the UK would find my opinions illegal, then if you are right then it only goes to show that these countries are fascist non-democratic police states, which many believe anyway.

When we first met I thought we could get on well but clearly I was wrong. I do not like arguments and this is what this is. We had a big falling out before in which I deleted you at Myspace and swore and you have detailed that in your blog. I am not going to react with anger that way this time but as you admit here we are no longer friends I will delete you at Myspace. If Kingfisher is ever a money-making success I would see that you got your share. It seems that is all we share.

I am not surprised that people at YouTube and chemtrail sites complain about you if this is an example of how you act. It is not a debate about a subject but a rude verbal assault by you who will not tolerate others having their beliefs or opinions or to post these in public.


Eric Graudins profile image

Eric Graudins 8 years ago from Australia

How timely.

Tim Flannery, one of Australia's top scientists has proposed that Global Warning could be slowed by injecting sulphur into the top levels of the atmosphere.

He says that it could be put there by mixing it with jet fuel.

This would be called "Global Dimming".

http://www.theage.com.au/news/environment/global-d...


Bard of Ely profile image

Bard of Ely 8 years ago from Lisbon, Portugal Author

Thanks for the link, Eric! Yes, I saw the news on this proposed insanity at Alex Jones' site.


Debbie Peace love profile image

Debbie Peace love 8 years ago

Hi Bard Are you sure that Jazzroc isn't a fox news presenter because he sure does sound like one to me. When they lose their arguments they resort to petty playgrond name calling and insults. Because they have lost the debate and cannot bring an intelligent debate to the table.

As you are aware I take a keen interest in chemtrails. Anyone who tells me they do not exist had better open their eyes and look up to the sky! You would have to be blind not to see them. Over here in the UK they make pretty pictures of chemtrails. We get the noughts and crosses obviously pilots having a game of tic tac toe. Well they have to dump whatever their dumping so they may of well have some fun. We get circles, loads of pretty pictures over here. Does not look to me as if they are planes with people on board and places to go! Why are the planes that are chemtrailing PLAIN White with NO markings! Planes usually advertise who they are up in the skies.

Why has there been a huge increase in breathing problems? Considering less people smoke. Also this new phenomenia Morgellons? Doctors are asking this question too. Also this may have something to do with the honeybee's demise too.

Why does the mainstream media keep silent about chemtrials. If they were ordinary contrails I am sure we would have had something on the media by now trying to debunk the "Chemtrail Theorists" However, their silence is deafening.

Also as many people have noticed our weather is fine until the planes come and low and behold we have rain!

Oh I suppose its all coincidence. I am sorry but there are too many "Coincidences" concerning chemtrails.

Why is jazroc so angry? If he disagree's with you on chemtrails then that is his perogotive. However, to call you all the names he has called you shows he has something to fear.

I wish jazroc could give us some facts andfigures to why you are wrong because he proves nothing. Yes I understand he worked on engines big bloody deal! does not prove a thing!

IF you don't want to believe what is right in front of your eyes. Then that is up to you. However, the best way to hide something is to put it in full view.

When someone throws nasty insults and name calling. Especially to someone who is very well read on his subject. The insult thrower is shown to be what he is. A fool.


Bard of Ely profile image

Bard of Ely 8 years ago from Lisbon, Portugal Author

Debbie, thank you very much for posting and your support on this! To be fair to Jazzroc, though he doesn't extend much fairness to me, he does provide a lot of info in his blog, which he has provided the link for and is worth reading, however, it doesn't satisfy me or put my worries to rest on the subject, as I have already pointed out. It is a shame that it appears that Jazzroc has got himself excluded from sites where he could be hearing in detail from people living with illnesses they attribute to chemtrails and reports of daily coverage of their skies like get reported at chemtrailtrackingusa group for example. However, it seems that he doesn't want to listen to what others say but just believes he is right so they must be wrong and then he wishes to impose his views on them, which I have called a bigoted approach. When they fail to accept what he says he does what he has done to me - he becomes very rude, threatening and insulting.

I think the point you raise on the media silence is a very valid one. Jazzroc would probably say the media cannot report on something that doesn't exist but I would say the media has reported in great detail on things that don't exist such as the weapons of mass destruction that were never found and other government lies. And if there is nothing to fear from the chemtrails then why doesn't the media get someone who can explain it to do so? Why doesn't Jazzroc volunteer instead of carrying on his barrage of insults and debunking posts? I would have thought the media could call upon scientific 'experts' to explain the matter but they do not do so! Maybe Beck's song Chemtrails will bring the subject into the public mainstream arena where it belongs. According to Wikipedia, his song has been played on BBC R1, which maybe the first time the BBC has used the word chemtrails. I searched their site long ago and it isn't there, although contrails are and defined as harmless.


JazzRoc profile image

JazzRoc 8 years ago from El Medano, Tenerife, Canary Islands

Debbie Peace Love:

"Are you sure that Jazzroc isn't a fox news presenter" - I'm a retired engineer living fifteen miles away from the Bard in Tenerife. Are you sure you aren't being abusive here?

"open their eyes and look up to the sky" - and you'll see contrails. If you look at the sky you'll see the Sun go round the Earth. Now, DOES the Sun go round the Earth?

"Does not look to me as if they are planes with people on board and places to go!" - You can tell all that from seven miles beneath? You should get a job in Air Traffic Control. They need you!

"Why are the planes that are chemtrailing PLAIN White with NO markings" - Your first unwittingly ignorant question. It's a physical phenomenon called "blue light scattering". Educate yourself. Try WIKI.

"Why has there been a huge increase in breathing problems considering less people smoke?" - Because there has been a huge increase in arable farming, with new crops with new pollens, industry is still increasing using exotic materials with dangerous dusts when cutting and grinding without adequate air filtration, because urban photochemical smogs are still increasing, and finally because power stations are burning less safe materials as the world's oil supplies dwindle. The Western diet of over-processed foods with too much meat and too little fruit, coupled with high-stress levels and poor exercise regimens and contaminated water supplies doesn't help at all. Overall, this is an already complex intermix of factors by itself, requiring a massive statistical effort to sort out - before you come along with IMAGINARY ills.

"Also this new phenomenia Morgellons? Doctors are asking this question too?" - Look it up in WIKI. In Science as a whole, FACTS are established using DUPLICATION of results and PEER REVIEW of research. This HASN'T HAPPENED WITH MORGELLONS' CLAIMS. Ergo - it's NOT Science and NOT TRUE.

"Also this may have something to do with the honeybee's demise too." - May it? See above. You must remember that scientists get famous for discovering things, so the pressures are there to make these discoveries. See above.

"Why does the mainstream media keep silent about chemtrials?" - They have tried it on, burnt their fingers, and won't do it again!

"Also as many people have noticed our weather is fine until the planes come and low and behold we have rain!" - Or perhaps, the humid air that creates the contrails eventually causes rain?

"Oh I suppose its all coincidence. I am sorry but there are too many "Coincidences" concerning chemtrails." - There are too many "coincidences" in the minds of those that are deluded!

"Why is jazzroc so angry?" - I should cheer when ignorant "Chicken Littles" accuse innocent people of attempted mass murder, should I?

"to call you all the names he has called you shows he has something to fear." - Of course I have something to fear! STUPIDITY is a DANGEROUS thing in a technological world!

"I wish jazzroc could give us some facts and figures to why you are wrong because he proves nothing." - I doubt whether you could appreciate proof if you met it. You need a modicum of scientific understanding which you've already demonstrated you don't have. However, there's always WIKI and http://jazzroc.wordpress.com

"Yes I understand he worked on engines big bloody deal! does not prove a thing!" - A bit more than that, dear. I'm a scientist. And an artist. And a musician.

"IF you don't want to believe what is right in front of your eyes. Then that is up to you. However, the best way to hide something is to put it in full view." - The sun - does it ACTUALLY go round the earth?

"When someone throws nasty insults and name calling." - They need to be STOPPED! Your hypocrisy is showing! Or hadn't you noticed that CHEMTRAILS insults hard-working, decent professional people (and anyone else who has a modicum of commonsense)?

"Especially to someone who is very well read on his subject. The insult thrower is shown to be what he is. A fool." - All that glitters is not gold. You may read, but you patently do not understand. A fool is what YOU are.

Bard:

"it doesn't satisfy me or put my worries to rest on the subject" - You demand to be spoon-fed scientific understanding, but it doesn't come that way. You must study for years for such understanding to arrive. If you DO NOT HAVE this understanding, you will NEVER be satisfied.

In the interim, perhaps you could moderate your pseudo-scientific assertions....

"he could be hearing in detail from people living with illnesses they attribute to chemtrails - it seems that he doesn't want to listen to what others say" - I thought it was I that was the insulting person. I have read what people have said, and it is obvious that there is no direct link. We ALL breathe in a mass of dusts, pollens, viruses and bacteria with every breath we take. Our bodies have a tolerance for doing this which has been EARNED by the deaths of countless millions of our predecessors over four billion years.

"I have called a bigoted approach" - The correct approach to YOUR "chemtrail" bigotry.

"he becomes very rude, threatening and insulting" - How is it that you continually forget the nature of your claim? Why can't you see that you ARE what you claim ME to be?

"why doesn't the media get someone who can explain it to do so?" - Because it is too difficult and boring a job for them (they would LOSE ratings)!

"the media could call upon scientific 'experts' to explain the matter" - I am such an expert. How successful am I?

"contrails are and defined as harmless" - And of course they are. It is YOUR BEHAVIOUR that is harmful.


Bard of Ely profile image

Bard of Ely 8 years ago from Lisbon, Portugal Author

Jazzroc, I will let Debbie reply to you here if she so wishes.

I would ask you this: if what you say are harmless contrails and harmless cloud cover resulting from them cut out the sunlight getting through do you not think it is likely to affect bee navigational ability when it has been established by SETI that sunlight is the main navigation tool for the insects? Please see: http://www.setiai.com/archives/000064.html

So whether its water vapour converted to ice or toxic particles the result is surely the same - less light gets through. This can be clearly seen when sun halos form as they do now we have these trails so often in the sky!


JazzRoc profile image

JazzRoc 8 years ago from El Medano, Tenerife, Canary Islands

Really, Bard, I wonder what happens when you address yourself to read something!

I could answer your question from my internal understanding, but just in case there was a built-in trick I addressed myself to the text in question, and found it answered your question completely!

"if what you say are harmless contrails and harmless cloud cover resulting from them cut(ting) out the sunlight getting through do you not think it is likely to affect bee navigational ability when it has been established by SETI that sunlight is the main navigation tool for the insects?"

NO. Like all navigating animals on Earth, bees are NOT reliant on the visible Sun for navigation. Any such creatures that were SOLELY reliant upon the Sun would have been rendered extinct by the first large volcanic outburst or cometary impact than obscured the Sun for a sufficiently large period. And there been quite a few of these over the preceding 500,000,000 years.

Bees sense the Sun, polarized light, landscape features, magnetic fields, and use two techniques of distance measurement (the latter one "optical flow" is new to me, but entirely unsurprising). What follows is a direct quote from the article: "All of these senses are redundant. That is to say, remove any one of them and the bee will probably still be able to navigate without problems. When the sun is obscured by clouds or trees, but patches of blue sky are still visible, the honey bee is able to use polarized light as a backup navigation system. The light coming directly from the sun is unpolarised. Some of this sunlight, however, is scattered by air molecules and a pattern of polarized light is set up in the sky. This pattern consists of a roughly circular set of gradients centered around the sun. The polarization is at its most intense at a 90' angle from the sun. By detecting the polarization angle bees are able to infer the location of the sun. Exactly how they manage to do this is still unknown."

Did you actually READ this? It ANSWERS the question you put to me! Do you know what "redundant" means in this context?

"So whether it's water vapour converted to ice or toxic particles the result is surely the same - less light gets through." - Here you once again demonstrate your scientific ignorance.

"Toxic particles" cannot flow through the gas-turbine injectors. Injectors are hardened steel precision-ground tubes with very small internal diameters. Flow-control valves also clog if fine solids pass through them. In fact, they must both be protected by a high-capacity low-micron filter, which, of course, would stop solids. DUSTS PUT OUT ENGINES.

Passenger aircraft are built down to a price by civilian businesses. Their wings contain spars, tanks and control equipment. They are built to very tight tolerances and riveted or glued down firmly. They do not have "empty spaces" and "extra pumps and nozzles" built into them for CHEMICAL ATTACK.

"Less light gets through" - It has been demonstrated by two different scientists using two different techniques in two different parts of the Earth that incident sunlight falling on the earth has been reduced by at least 15% over the last forty years. It is attributed to the industrial revolution, not just in the west, but in the middle and far east - it's the consequence of COMBUSTION IN GENERAL. It is known that the contribution of air travel is between 1 and 2% of this.

"This can be clearly seen when sun halos form as they do now we have these trails so often in the sky!" - The Sun has formed halos in the Earth's stratosphere for four-and-a half billion years. The ice crystals that form such a halo are PURE. Any more than the single nucleating molecule at its centre (which every water droplet or ice crystal needs to form at all) and crystal formation is interfered with, and the halo effect disappears also.

You should know this, Steve, as we FREQUENTLY see halo effects round both Sun and Moon here, but NEVER when the KALIMA dust is in the sky.

Hadn't you noticed?


Bard of Ely profile image

Bard of Ely 8 years ago from Lisbon, Portugal Author

Yes, I know what redundant means but was thinking that if sunlight is the main tool then this could be what has messed them up and I note that they are OK here where we do not get many trails or blanket coverage with artificial cloud. Back in the UK where I went I saw trails and white cloud covering large areas made by these trails and the bees have nearly vanished so I joined the dots.

You make an excellent point about the halos and I know that they are dependent on water vapour so dust (or particles) should not produce this effect. I have to admit what you say makes sense to me on that.

If soldid particles cannot go through the engines, which makes sense to me too, how did Teller's sunscreen proposal work or this new madness by Prof Flannery of wanting to use sulphur? To my knowledge both aluminium (Teller) and sulphur (Flannery) are solids.

I assume that these substances would be sprayed from tanks with nozzles etc that you say are not in passenger planes but whilst that may well be the case, what about military planes? Surely they can have these adaptations?


JazzRoc profile image

JazzRoc 8 years ago from El Medano, Tenerife, Canary Islands

"I know what redundant means but was thinking that if sunlight is the main tool" - and there's your paradox - "redundant" means "if removed, function persists".

"blanket coverage with artificial cloud" - All these clouds are cirrus. In supersaturated air the ice crystals of cirrus clouds, whether natural or man-made contrails, will gain weight and fall until they become diffuse clouds of water droplets (stratus) or if they reach the ground - fog. This fog, whatever its origination, is practically pure water. The impurities (and we're talking fractions of a percent here) will be soot (from a gas turbine) or aluminium silicate (from the land) or methyl sulfide (from the sea).

NONE of these will poison bees. The most likely killer of bees is a virus. The second most likely killer is a bacterium. The third most likely is a fungus. The fourth most likely is another strain of bees. Use your commonsense. Cities and industrial landscapes occupy about 2% of the Earth's surface area - there may be cumulative effects for which they share a worldwide responsibility, like increasing proportions of carbon and sulfur dioxides in the air, but aircraft have only a 2% share in this. It is more likely that Nature itself is killing the bees.

It is very unfortunate (but obviously true) that these bee enemies are also arranged in the order of being the most difficult to discover. You have to remember (if you ever knew) that due to the incredible scales involved, finding a specific lethal bacterium on a bee might be like finding a single unknown person in a city, and that finding a single lethal virus on a bee (it might be INSIDE a bacterium!) might be like finding a single unique person on Earth - namely VERY much harder than finding a needle in a haystack - in fact well-nigh impossible.

"I joined the dots" - but only the dots you could see...

"how did Teller's sunscreen proposal work or this new madness by Prof Flannery of wanting to use sulphur" - Teller's proposal was never answered. Flannery's was to use rockets, but this engineer can tell you now that the whole proposal was flaky, and very much more likely to do harm than good. After all, what is acid rain? (Er - sulfur dioxide meets water - makes sulfuric acid!) How good is THAT for trees?

"To my knowledge both aluminium (Teller) and sulphur (Flannery) are solids" - It isn't impossible to turn both into organic liquids. Sulfur is fairly easy, aluminium difficult and expensive. (Barium is much more difficult and is so dense and reactive that specially-lined tanks and mechanical stirrers would be required!)

However on the scale of the Earth you can forget it. I've told you already that a single shot of barium for the Earth would require 3.4 million tons. That's for a single pass... Can you envisage the US (and who else could it be?) shelling up for 85,000 KC105 tanker flights on a weekly basis, when its economy is about to go down the tubes? The whole idea is ridiculous. The surface area of the Earth is fifty times larger than the United States.

"what about military planes?" - It's your best argument, but doesn't pan out when you consider the logistics. See above.

You say you have read my blog. I can tell you're not telling me the truth, for this is thoroughly answered there, and here I'm forced to repeat myself.

As I have said before, Steve, you cannot defeat me using scientific argument, because I know the science involved. If you really get down to basics (and of course you can't!) I would fight you all the way and still end up the winner.

Your side knows this and has found other ways to defeat me - by blocking, by corruption, by fraud, by lying. But never by science. Blocking and corruption are beyond my powers to overcome, but occasionally I have defeated fraud. And lies are easy to deal with.

What I would like for you to do (apart from stopping making all these false assertions!) is come up with questions which really challenge me, and not questions which any book on atmospheric physics or topical science programme can answer.

And here is one for you. In my blog there is a link to a fascinating British invention which provides a safe, easy, cheap and reversible method of controlling and reducing Global Warming.

What is it?


Bard of Ely profile image

Bard of Ely 8 years ago from Lisbon, Portugal Author

Tony, I have had a big realisation and not sure how I missed this apart from by association - I saw trails and white hazy skies and sun halos and my logic said the halos were caused by what was in the trails. However, because I was believing the trails were bad I was assuming the halos had to be too and had read how they are a sign in the Hopi system of the end of this system which added to my belief they are bad. But in doing this I was failing to see something I know - that halos form when there is water vapour, not when there is dust or particles. Therefore, looking at this now it means that the white trails and white artificial cloud cover would appear to be, as you and other non CT-believers have said, water vapour turning to ice crystals! This means that "chembows" would also be made of water. This means a lot that I have been believing was wrong!


JazzRoc profile image

JazzRoc 8 years ago from El Medano, Tenerife, Canary Islands

Crumbs, Steve.

Answers like this REALLY pull the rug out from under my feet! I am so accustomed to dogged argument that I don't really know now what to say. :-)

Except, of course, that there is much more to this than what we have covered so far, and even if "chemtrails" don't exist, then for sure most ills suffered by both Man and Nature are STILL down to Man!

My point all the way through my "campaign" against "chemtrails" is that WHILE "chemtrails" are the focus of attention, the REAL problems are NOT ADDRESSED.

Namely, people ARE suffering from lung and skin allergic reactions, and possibly dying. These people will be the young, the old, the poor, and people who have already been weakened by some other disease. Not having "media share", they can slip away without causing a stir or attracting attention. Awful. And I'm fairly sure that's happening, not from any particular facts I possess (except perhaps my own intense allergy to Britain's summer months!), but from a half-century of experience in the ways of the world.

I have watched the quality of Britain's air, water, and food drop decade by decade. And the quality of life! The fuddy-duddy "Empah" values, stiff-upper-lip, reserve, and artificial politeness PRESERVED a life quality we have LOST. Lack of stress! Peace!

I'm also concerned about CARS.

In the sixties the Conservative transport minister Dr. Beeching removed half our rail network. This rail network was a web of railway that reached to every town and virtually every village in the country. It was a fabulous real estate asset because it was JOINED UP, and could hence be converted - perhaps into a clean and efficient tramway, or a road, or a canal, or an information highway. Or maybe left as part of a modern automatic railway. Well, once broken up and flogged off as packets of land no longer joined up, that which cost the Victorians SO much trouble was cast to the wind...

In the seventies there was the Oil Crisis, when the price of oil tripled overnight. "Now" I thought "there is bound to be a drive towards light and efficient people movers!" What did we build? 4 by 4's, juggernauts as big and heavy as the monsters built in the US during the fifties!

The SUPERMARKET "juggernauts" drove across our valleys in the eighties, removing trees and hedges and small-holdings in their factory-farming "techno-park" drive to produce consistently-sized, brightly-coloured, poisoned, tasteless "vegetable" (or "animal") pap, leaving in their wake air filled with herbicides, pesticides, and pollens, and sordid concentration camps of bird and animal suffering.

And then the cars. Without a decent railway or bus system or information system we were forced into cars. (Not you, Steve, I know.) Thousands of cars. MILLIONS of cars. On occasion the M25 was a stationary six-lane CAR PARK (with all engines running) for a HUNDRED MILES. What in God's Name sort of LUNACY is THAT?

Cars, poisoned air, poisoned water, denatured food, the mass-torture of birds and animals. Rudeness in public. Temporary and demeaning employment. Fraud in Banking and Insurance. Mortgage and Equity crises. Lying politicians. Foreign war. STRESS... BRITAIN!

Chemtrails are simply (apart from their nonexistence) SURPLUS TO REQUIREMENT.

The anti-GW invention is the salt-spray trimaran of Dr. Stephen Salter. Apart from turning the skies of the southern Atlantic, Pacific, and Indian oceans somewhat leaden (and reducing the violence of storms in the area, and providing refuge for shipwrecked sailors) these devices do no harm whatsoever. Only fifty of them are needed, and they can be switched off overnight if that were necessary.


Bard of Ely profile image

Bard of Ely 8 years ago from Lisbon, Portugal Author

Tony, please see the update I have added. I can admit I was wrong about a lot of it and felt I should make a public statement here explaining my reasoning. Thank you, because in the course of this I have understood how I was ignoring facts or overriding them due to my belief in the basic chemtrail conspiracy and my mistrust in scientists and official authorities. I would think that has happened with many of the other people who haven't given you a chance or really read all you have had to say!


JazzRoc profile image

JazzRoc 8 years ago from El Medano, Tenerife, Canary Islands

"This means a lot that I have been believing was wrong!" - Steve, that was a gracious (and almost unique!) apology which temporarily took my breath away. It is unusual for a "chemtrail" adherent to back down over anything. The only previous instance I can recall was - you - about a year ago.

Yet, after that, you soon got into full swing again.

So may we look at your phrase "a lot that I have been believing" and pick it apart a little? Can you now be believing that yes, there ARE poisons being dispensed, but they DON'T make white lines in the sky? Perhaps you now believe that no, they CAN'T be passenger planes, but they CAN be military KC105 tankers which are NOT laying visible trails? Invisible trails of WHAT might these be? Do you know how many KC105s there are - compared with the number required to carry out Edward Teller's proposal? (ET - the original "Strangelove"!) NOT ENOUGH. Not enough tankers, not enough fuel, not enough barium.

Did you notice the satellite image of the whole of the North Atlantic Ocean in my blog that showed contrails as a grid of white lines concentrated ONLY over the middle of the ocean (where there was a huge north-south cold front!) with virtually no contrails over the land anywhere? If they were "spraying", WHY would that occur?

Did you see the "chemtrailer" version of a (on-off) "gap" in a contrail that was patently photoshopped into existence?

Did you see the Sciechimiche video claiming to be the inside of a "spraying" aircraft which was "fabricated" from a photo of the interior of the Boeing 777 Long Range Prototype, which at the time contained interconnected barrels of water (in place of the seating) for directly testing the consequences of varying its centre of gravity?

I hope you COMPLETELY understand that there is NOT A SINGLE WORD OF TRUTH in ANY PART of the "chemtrail conspiracy", and that some of the "claimants" are NOT DELUDED but actively FRAUDULENT.

And "Geo-engineering" is not necessarily a dirty word...http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=fg7J8P-uXqMYes

Steve, I looked at your stop press, and it warmed my heart to see it. But it is an afterword in your Hub entitled "Are Chemtrails Real, and Contrails a Con?", so I suppose the end results of this episode may still be deleterious, and a distraction from solving our true difficulties.

I hope you will soon return to your laudable activities in the fields and woods of permaculture, wildlife, wild foods, conservation and Nature.


Bard of Ely profile image

Bard of Ely 8 years ago from Lisbon, Portugal Author

I will have a look at that video now! I do not claim to know how many planes the miltary has or where they hold them. I have seen the "inside a tanker" video you refer to and am well aware of the reality of that episode having been caught up in it personally online. I read a lot of the conspiracy authors and watch their lectures and the majority have included chemtrails as a reality and I find it hard to believe they are all knowingly lying, especially when I know that much of the other material covered is true. So I have to conclude they blind themselves as I have done. I have taken down my STOP CHEMTRAILS banners at Myspace because they show trails which you have convinced me are water vapour and until anyone can prove anything to the contrary I am as of now not promoting CTs as a reality. In fact when I have the time I will do a rewrite of what I have posted above here probably and stick it on Myspace. JazzRoc was he right? Yes, but nobody wanted to know!

I would much prefer to stick to things I do know about such as nature but in this case I got involved in it by seeing skies that are not as they used to be, which you have convinced me is caused by far more water being in them, and I assume this was the case when this happened before as you have detailed regarding past occurrences of persistent contrails.


JazzRoc profile image

JazzRoc 8 years ago from El Medano, Tenerife, Canary Islands

I see that "Yes" arrived appended to the link I offered regarding the topic of Geo-Engineering. The correct link is:

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=fg7J8P-uXqM

Sorry about that!


Bard of Ely profile image

Bard of Ely 8 years ago from Lisbon, Portugal Author

Yes, I couldn't find it - thanks. I will have a look now.


JazzRoc profile image

JazzRoc 8 years ago from El Medano, Tenerife, Canary Islands

I notice that you'll find on the YouTube co-display page an article by Alex Jones concerning the Sun's role in Global Warming, where he suggests this coming Solar Cycle will show the Sun's brightness increasing by 50%.

In the 4.6 billion years (and 200 million solar cycles) since the Sun and its solar system formed, the Sun has increased its brightness by (I think) 27%.

This means that the mean brightness increase of the Sun per cycle is 0.000000135%.

The Sun is not yet middle-aged in terms of its own life, and is expected to burn for another 10 billion years before it dies. It is proceeding smoothly, and showing just its usual behaviour - a tiny increase every cycle.

It strains credibility to believe that THIS Solar cycle brightness increase is going to be 370 BILLION times greater...

So how can Alex Jones say this? Perhaps he isn't a scientist, but I've just sat down with a calculator and rattled out the figures - and you can do it too.

What sort of lunacy is this? Why does it happen these days? Where is the ACTION here? What's the REAL agenda?


Bard of Ely profile image

Bard of Ely 8 years ago from Lisbon, Portugal Author

I saw that video. Alex says all sorts - a lot of it right and some of it wrong and as you say he is not a scientist which he admits! He is a good showman and a very successful alternative broadcaster and many people say all sorts of things about him good and bad. I have listened to him a lot over the years but not so much in recent months although I subscribe to his blog at Myspace, and I find myself knowing AJ supporters and others who are against him.

To answer your question why this is happening - there is the conspiracy theory that would tell you it is all part of the Illuminati Great Work of Ages plan and has been designed to be like this or maybe it's just because a vast number of people want answers and are fed up with lies from politicians, governments, world leaders, religions, scientists, global manufacturers, and the media. Alex is one of many who provide answers so he has a ready audience. People have distrust in traditional leaders and 'experts' and want new ones - it's been going this way for a long time and I would personally say a lot started in the sixties when people began looking for alternative ways and wanted to change the system. It's when I got involved.


unknown 8 years ago

first off i would like to say i am new to this subject and at present not swayed either way,but i have read both side's to this argument and the continuing argument between bard and jazzroc, jazzroc by your standards i am extremly uneducated,but reading the post's here by both you and bard i am dissapointed in the way in which such an educated person argue's there point,firstly it seems you pick on a sentance and then dis-credit it as much as possible by insulting everything it implys, its like reading a list of insults rather than a fair and equal argument,and no doubt you will do the same to this comment picking up on bad spelling, grammer and such saying how uneducated i am,but i am and i can admit this,allso you claim to be a scientist yet your views are firmly set with no room for change,does science not show us now that the impossible is possible?does history not show us that science get's it wrong time and time again? you are everything that is wrong with science today! science is an ever changing and growing subject and needs open-minded people for its progression,and yes this has been a bit of a snipe at you maybe un-fairly,but try looking at things from a different point of view for a change,for if there is one thing life has taught me is that there is allways 2 sides to everything! and if we point blank refuse to look at one side we become lost in own delusions.


Bard of Ely profile image

Bard of Ely 8 years ago from Lisbon, Portugal Author

Thanks for your thought, unknown! Perhaps JazzRoc will reply to your points?


JazzRoc profile image

JazzRoc 8 years ago from El Medano, Tenerife, Canary Islands

"does science not show us now that the impossible is possible?"

NO. The impossible has been shown forever to be, and to have been, impossible. The Universe is consistent to the laws we have uncovered to as far as we can see, which is to a distance of thirteen and a half billion light years. There are NO other rules operating other than the ones we have uncovered - other than the rules we HAVEN'T uncovered!

"does history not show us that science gets it wrong time and time again?"

YES. And THEN it gets it RIGHT. Consider how you and your mother avoided death when you were born, and all the other aspects of your material existence which "wrong" science has got "right", and contrived to make your life OTHER than "nasty, brutish, and short"! Consider the means by which you argue here. Consider that once I worked in a team to develop this means.

"you are everything that is wrong with science today!"

Well, thanks. Had I known this, perhaps I would have have NOT designed the world's first ethernet transceiver. Perhaps PEOPLE are what's wrong with science. Perhaps you are a victim (already) of a dumbing-down process I saw begun in the early seventies. Perhaps you are also a victim of fiscal policy (namely the total surrender of "democratic" western governments to private banking interests). But you are NO victim of mine!

I have been in opposition to every wicked and deleterious policy change I've seen occur since I've ever been able to vote. That's almost EVERY CHANGE THAT HAS BEEN MADE. I opposed entry into the Common Market (Britain should be strong and self-sufficient and independent), I opposed the Conservative Selsdon Committee (that dumbed YOU down!), I opposed the destruction of the Engineering, Shipbuilding, Mining and Machine Tool Industries, I opposed the Falklands War, I opposed the destruction of the Coal Mines, I opposed the idea that Britain could be a Fiscal Service for the World (ridiculous!), I opposed the rapid exploitation of North Sea Gas (further destroying the mining industry), I opposed the feeding of meat to cows, I opposed the idea that GM pollinating plants merely needed a 20-yard separation (!), and I opposed entry into the Iraqi war. Then I LEFT THE COUNTRY.

I had become VERY FED UP of being ROBBED (in ALL uses of that term) CONTINUALLY over a forty-year period. Even now I am close to destitute, as employment is hard to find for a sixty-four-year-old Welshman without money or transport in a Spanish fishing resort village. But it is warm here, and I am close to my grandson, and my needs are few. I shall soon create a solar home and permaculture food garden and achieve true self-sufficiency.

"science is an ever changing and growing subject and needs open-minded people for its progression"

Can't disagree with you here! Of course, it is necessary to point out that to be "open-minded" requires that one is EDUCATED in the first place. Otherwise one merely "opens" an EMPTY mind...

"and yes this has been a bit of a snipe at you maybe un-fairly"

Completely.

"but try looking at things from a different point of view for a change"

Well, I'm a qualified engineer and industrial designer and practise those disciplines. Now I compose music. The idea of a "different point of view" is QUITE POPULAR with engineers, designers, musicians! It helps CREATE NEW THINGS.

"for if there is one thing life has taught me is that there is always 2 sides to everything!"

Science isn't a democratic debate. There is ONLY a CORRECT side and an INCORRECT side. Life hasn't taught you ANYTHING, it seems...

"and if we point blank refuse to look at one side we become lost in own delusions"

No, you HOLD ONE.

I'd like to point out that if I'm arguing with an American it really makes no difference - the same evil and wicked policies are maintained by both Britain and the States. If the cap fits...


unknown 8 years ago

ok,well you have indeed made some valid points against what i have said to you,and claiming that you are everything wrong with science today was unfair and i apologize for that comment,but to say i have been dumbed down is allso a bit much,and when i talk of the impossible being possible one reference comes to mind and that is of quantum physics, but i will say thankyou for your reply and your comments and will discuss this more in dew course


unknown 8 years ago

oh and just to clear that last part up,i am definatly not an american,i would like to say that my original comment was posted mainly for the way in which you come across,it is a little offensive in all honesty,and it bugged me,in reality i was not having ago at your abilities as a human being but more for the way that you put your point across,and somewhere in there i shall admit that i got a litte lost and sidetracked from the point i was getting at.


JazzRoc profile image

JazzRoc 8 years ago from El Medano, Tenerife, Canary Islands

I accept your apology.

Quantum physics does at first seem as though the impossible may be possible, but there is a fantastic SCALE effect at work here.

The scale of quantum physics is so small and local (and quick!) that the distances involved in organic molecules eg., from ONE peptide bond to the NEXT in a DNA molecule, become equivalent to the distances between stars.

All the "magic" is taking place in a "storm" (which is not even of microscopic size!) which on the whole averages out as - "non-magic" - nothing.

I am a Star Trek fan, and believe that "beam me up Scotty" (etc.) has tended to convince non-scientists that these types of events may some day be within the reach of scientists.

These programmes are FANTASIES. Their "science" (in almost all cases!) is poor. One isn't looking at a possible future -at all.

It is quite wrong to mix up a blend of fear of the US govt with fanciful ideas with radio stations (HAARP), barium stearate powders ("chemtrails"), "nanotechnology", "mindcontrol", aliens, and what-have-you, instead of finding the real solutions to lung and skin diseases.

The solutions will be found using Science, not Fantasy.

In the meanwhile "chemtrails" are a harmful distraction, an additional problem.


steve 8 years ago

hey i'm from new zealand and they spray us here too. i know that they are definitely spraying something because you can't turn a contrail on and off. we also see up to 4 planes spraying at once, they do a run across the city then turn around and spray again.

i notice on days when they spray that all my flatmates seem to be more agitated and depressed.

it seems to affect the wind. because our city usually is really windy and gets SE and N prevailing winds. but over the last 3 years the winds are coming from weird directions and it is hardly ever windy anymore

i have also seen the rainbows in the fake clouds too

i heard that there is a secret haarp installation here too


Bard of Ely profile image

Bard of Ely 8 years ago from Lisbon, Portugal Author

Steve, please have a look at contrailscience and JazzRoc's blogs - the links are here to provide info.

But basically you just seeing ice crystals forming the trails and fake cloud. They do not turn them on or off but are moving from one layer of the sky to another and if there is no water vapour present to crystallise as ice then you see no trail and it looks as if its turned off.

The rainbow effects are caused again by ice crystals - there are no forms of dust or particles metallic or otherwise that will cause this.

It is likely that people are depressed and agitated by seeing the trails because if what they have heard about them as a danger and because it is something they have not seen until recently. However, there is nothing to fear apart from fear itself and the reason we see all these trails is because the sky has far more water in it and there are far far more planes up there.


lynette 8 years ago

I am emailing you to inform you of a strike that is being organized on July 4th 2008 against the New World Order and the spraying of chemicals in our skies. I am hoping to reach as far as I can with the message that there are good people out there who really want to change things. We all need to support each other and create a the kind of world it should be. Please spread the word of change and promote this website after all this affects us all. Please visit www.freewebs.com/changetheworldforever for more info. We need to change what is happening to our world and to our skies, for the sake of ourselves and for generations to come.


MD FREE profile image

MD FREE 8 years ago from OC, California where extra is paid for good weather!

H2O is a greenhouse gas and that cannot combat global warming.

I didn't read jazzroc's comments and can't help wonder if he flies the planes.

Pollution does block sunlight from traveling deep into earth but I think there are better ways than pollution to stop global warming WTF!


Bard of Ely profile image

Bard of Ely 8 years ago from Lisbon, Portugal Author

I'm not sure who said water was combatting global warming so don't really understand the point you are making but I am sure there are far too many planes seeing as they are causing the problem we are seeing and whilst I no longer believe that the trails and artifical clouds are toxic it is still not right at all to have all these tons of ice crystals blotting out the blue skies and sunlight! And many places could desperately use the water down here!

Thanks for your feedback, MD!


MD FREE profile image

MD FREE 8 years ago from OC, California where extra is paid for good weather!

The point I was making is frost and mist are h2o, not chem trails.

I am not saying that I believe in one side or the other on this, if you read the blog on myspace I was talking about, it was more detailed.

I do think the theory falls in line with other theories that becoming more factual.

At least, it is more believable than reptilian theories!


Bard of Ely profile image

Bard of Ely 8 years ago from Lisbon, Portugal Author

Thanks for explaining!

Well, the strange thing is I am no longer a chemtrail believer after several years but I am a reptilian believer, although not so sure about the shapeshifting! I have actually just written over 3,000 words on why I believed in chemtrails and why I no longer do for another project. There was logical thought gone into both my belief and how I finally lost that belief but the most interesting part of it all for me was that when I was a chemtrail-believer I was blocking out seeing some things, which I knew. This was not logical thought but the control over my analytical mind by the belief system I had.


MD FREE profile image

MD FREE 8 years ago from OC, California where extra is paid for good weather!

I am going to have to read your conversation with jazzroc when I have more time. I have some chemistry knowledge and would be happy to look at this as logicaly as possible.<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/UdtLTyNOB0A&hl=en&... /><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true" /><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/UdtLTyNOB0A&hl=en&... type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>


Bard of Ely profile image

Bard of Ely 8 years ago from Lisbon, Portugal Author

MD, thanks for what you posted but I have deleted it because it appears to be copied and pasted material that can be seen elsewhere online and we are not allowed to have duplicate content on hub pages or the page will lose its ranking and no one will get to read it anyway which defeats the purpose. It would have been better posted as a link which are allowed so please post links in future.

As for the video it is just like all the others of which I have seen hundreds. They all are claiming that the trails are chemtrails and I no longer accept that so there is nothing to fear from them for myself or others who do not believe.

As for finding cures for the illnesses said to be caused by chemtrails this is an impossibility if the chemtrails do not exist and are merely ice which simply messes the sky up. The illnesses and symptoms are caused by many other things and obviously need to be cured but personally I see no point blaming the trails and I no longer do so.

BTW as an example, I have had chronic sinus problems that I believed to be caused by chemtrails. I no longer believe this and have concluded that the problem is caused by my deviated septum, which two doctors said was the reason. I have found a cure - salt water dropped down my nasal passages.


MD FREE profile image

MD FREE 8 years ago from OC, California where extra is paid for good weather!

No big deal about the deleted posts, I didn't feel comfortable putting the article up there. i would've sent a link but the profile I found it on is set to private so I do not think I could send a link. It was a lot longer of an article but I am not intent on changing your mind.

The fascinating part I thought, was the evolving DNA.

I started classes this week so I am becoming too busy for this subject. If I come across any proof you haven't heard of I will send you a myspace message with a link.

Lots of things can cause asthma and sinus problems, nearby trains using deisel, car pollution, airports, pollen. See you on another topic friend!


Bard of Ely profile image

Bard of Ely 8 years ago from Lisbon, Portugal Author

Yes, lots of things present in the modern world can and do produce symptoms like sinus problems and asthma that get blamed on chemtrails!

Yes, there are all manner of theories about DNA - depends who you agree with really! Michael Tsarion says we all have alien DNA mixed with human and that is the root cause of evil in the world. It's a good explanation.

Michael doesn't think there are any saviours for the world condition but ourselves and I am inclined to agree with him on both counts. This is our nightmare and we have to deal with it!


toxicpolarbear 8 years ago

hey. i hear planes at the same time every morning. I live in gwealod y garth in cardiff.

we have had some really heavy downpours but i gues the rain is everywhere anyway.

I have uncontrollable burny sneezing fits random spates & ive never had hayfever. Could be dust but i think i would be sneezing all of the time if was. my sleep patterns change and i feel different when i drink tap water.


Bard of Ely profile image

Bard of Ely 8 years ago from Lisbon, Portugal Author

I know Gwaelod y Garth very well - a beautiful place!

No, rain at all here - in fact a drought!

I hope the tap water doesn't have fluoride in it like it does in many places now - a much worse threat than chemtrails, which I don't any more believe exist!

Sneezing is caused by many things and there are countless things which people are allergic to with cats, house dust mites and many types of pollen being a few. In many places people are exposed to pollens like oil seed rape that is a fairly new crop that is being cultivated on a wide scale.


Sean  7 years ago

If these don't exist howcome there is this chemtrail tracking site I go to that tells you when they will be here and when they won't be here and it's dead on 90% of the time? How would this guy know if they did not exist? I mean I think they do exist and they are up to something up there, what it is I have no clue but I have heard both sides of the argument and use common sense when I look up and I know these are different from the contrails I see on some days. Some days I see contrais and then these all over the sky. Jazzroc and his arguments are not going to sway me from these things or make it like they don't exist, like the devil they exist and they don't want you to know it. I am staying believing and studying these and reading about them. Some say they know some who fly and say they do spray these things and think it is for our good, some say it's just schaff and the military does spray it to jam radar, check those out in youtube. It has been on the news in Cali as well and weather channels if you look for it, so people do know and are up on these things, not enough people but some know. BTW as for the tracking site, I would put it up but some idiot will try to get it taken down if they are with the GOVT. or looking to keep these a wrap, I think I will pass but that's NO LIE. He tells when they will be spraying, and bottom line it happens.


Bard of Ely profile image

Bard of Ely 7 years ago from Lisbon, Portugal Author

Please post the tracking site here!

As far as I am concerened it is simple to predict when trials will occur if you know flight paths. The problem with the subject is that chemtrail believers call persistent contrails "chemtrails" and non-believers call them contrails. And it is a belief system because I am a past believer and it was very hard for JazzRoc to get me to seethe logic of his arguments! I am now a non-believer.

I could give you an example of predicting trails: at around 10am on Sundays in winter but not in summer a plane goes across where I live and it leaves a long lasting trail that I used to call a chemtrail. Pics I have posted of this believers call a chemtrail, as I did. But now if I see the same trail and accept it as a persistent contrail of ice crystals. Conditions have changed and we are now seeing persistent trails which we have not been used to seeing and we have been led by those propagting the chemtrail belief to call them chemtrails but they are simply long lasting trails of ice crystals I now believe.


bozena 7 years ago

JazzRoc is a well known DISINFORMIST. He magically appears at any discussion of atmospheric manipulation discussion and thwarts it with local fallacy pseudo-science, mostly released as countermeasures to chemtrail discussion. BEWARE!!


bozena 7 years ago

Bard of Ely, i still can't believe how easily you've been pushed over.


Bard of Ely profile image

Bard of Ely 7 years ago from Lisbon, Portugal Author

As I have explained before JazzRoc is none of the things people claim he is! He is someone I know personally and have met many times and actually worked on music with as well as having enjoyed walks around the island here. But people post other opinions about him when they know nothing about him apart from the fact that he does not believe in chemtrails.

If you read what I have written you will find that my belief in the subject was already on shaky grounds when I found that the air in South Wales under "chemtrailed" skies was cleaner than usual not badly polluted. At the time I couldn't understand this as I had been led to believe by chemtrailers that the air was being poisoned. Clearly it was not the case. I have not seen any evidence for chemtrails as a reality apart from all the videos, photos, reports etc by chemtrail believers and what I used to think were chemtrails. I have concluded that the chemtrail belief system is a disinformation campaign itself and a very successful one.


nojustno 7 years ago

bard you are so easily swayed 911 was genocide the powers that be only look at us as slaves and thats why we live longer jazzric has such an inflated ego he must be a fox reporter and he worked on so many projects like concord ha what with all his education thats all he has done for mankind basically helped pollute the world.


futonfraggle profile image

futonfraggle 7 years ago

Great hub, Bard. I fall into the first category, too. I guess that makes me a loon ;)


Bard of Ely profile image

Bard of Ely 7 years ago from Lisbon, Portugal Author

Thanks futonfraggle! Have you seen my other hub on the subject?


futonfraggle profile image

futonfraggle 7 years ago

Not yet. I'm going to swing over there now. You've written about a lot of interesting topics. I'm about to dive in!


sasina06 7 years ago

Mind control techniques use associations to intelligence and the clever "scientist" to convince people something is right. Disbelivers of conspiracy theories want to align themselves to this plot to keep their self worth high. People who resist this form of mind control are deemed stupid or mental or belonging to a terrorist organization. This response is part of the mind control agenda. Research and development is in itself driven by propaganda and corruption and you have to be free from over education to see through the persistent half truths we are given.It is the moderately educated and those free from mind controlled beliefs systems such as nothing exists unless there is evidence for it who can join the dots better. Listen to them as they have free thinking ability and intuition. Real scientists often just churn out contrived rubbish like politicians to pacify the masses.


Bard of Ely profile image

Bard of Ely 7 years ago from Lisbon, Portugal Author

Thanks for posting! BTW it may surprise you to know that David de Rothschild, a man that conspiracy theorists do not approve of, agrees that the persistent cloud cover is a threat and says so in his book The Global Warming Survival Handbook. He calls the trails contrails though as do I now. Here's David: "Contrails - those pretty, white water-vapour ribbons in the sky - trap heat in the atmosphere as efficiently as CO2 does and may also encourage the formation of heat-trapping, high altitude cirrus clouds."


creativeMind profile image

creativeMind 7 years ago from Cochin

i haven't heard about this before.


Bard of Ely profile image

Bard of Ely 7 years ago from Lisbon, Portugal Author

Well, I am glad to have brought the matter to your attention! Thanks for posting!


JazzRoc 7 years ago

nojustno:

"bard you are so easily swayed" - Not in my experience. We had an argument which lasted several months, won by myself on the point of ice haloes never occurring in a "dusty" atmosphere..

"911 was genocide" - No, it was terrorism.

"the powers that be only look at us as slaves and that's why we live longer" - The first part of that has been true since pre-history. The reason why we live longer is that we have benefited from four hundred years of SCIENCE.

"jazzric has such an inflated ego he must be a fox reporter" - I reckon that anyone who makes pronouncements without correct (or any) information has an inflated ego.

"and he worked on so many projects like concord ha what with all his education that's all he has done for mankind basically helped pollute the world." - Not at all. Today's jets are clean and efficient. I have worked also on the ethernet technology that powers the web. My last work before my retirement was on the Ford "Think" electric car.

Try not to be so consistently WRONG.

sasina06:

"Mind control techniques use associations to intelligence and the clever "scientist" to convince people something is right." - They may do. But knowledge of the science of the atmosphere is available to YOU. You merely have to use a LIBRARY. You can check every one of my statements THERE.

"Disbelievers of conspiracy theories want to align themselves to this plot to keep their self-worth high." - A statement entirely true of believers. "People who resist this form of mind control are deemed stupid or mental or belonging to a terrorist organization." - I'm not sure about the latter, but the former part is true, isn't it? You HAVEN'T gone to a library to check out the facts about air travel and the atmosphere - have you?

"This response is part of the mind control agenda. Research and development is in itself driven by propaganda and corruption" - What, co-operative research led by multi-national groups of scientists? How might THAT be achieved?

"you have to be free from over-education to see through the persistent half-truths we are given." - That's the deadliest advocacy for ignorance I have witnessed in a while. Science is available to all of us. It is based on observable facts which are quite unlike your malevolent innuendo.

"It is the moderately-educated and those free from mind-controlled beliefs systems such as nothing exists unless there is evidence for it who can join the dots better." - NO-ONE ever controlled MY belief system. Seems like somebody's controlling YOURS.

"Listen to them as they have free-thinking ability and intuition." - Ah, something true at last.

"Real scientists often just churn out contrived rubbish like politicians to pacify the masses." - The reputation of scientists depends on the lasting nature of their work. Any scientist doing what YOU think they do would be out of business in NO time.

It seems your "moderate education" is INADEQUATE. Rectify this.


TrutherD1 6 years ago

Check my vids. This is not normal. JazzRoc is well-known disinfo, BTW.


Bard of Ely profile image

Bard of Ely 6 years ago from Lisbon, Portugal Author

Did you read the hub above? JazzRoc is a friend of mine and got me to see the error of my ways.


bravestheart 6 years ago

I appreciate everyone's input.Here's mine:I have been researching the chemtrail subject for over 15 years.I had the opportunity to discuss the issue and put forward questions at the 2006 CDC International Conference in Atlanta ,Ga.If anyone has the filmed copy of the conference,do respond,I feel sure my segment of posed questions has been deleted;the conference was brought to an extremely abrupt halt and early lunch break ensued with time still left in the question and answer period.After having a dialogue with the EPD in Atlanta for over 6 months, I was given the opportunity to give a presentation for a panel.This event is what gave me the road and direction to the CDC conference. In the early 90's ,Hughes Aircraft applied for a patent ,search it: Stratospheric Welsbach Seeding For Reduction Of Global Warming.The patent clearly describes aluminum oxide and barium to be used for reflectivity,barium is 5 times more refractive than glass and the aluminum oxide as a radient barrier.Lot's of specific details were given as to the VISUAL RESULT. Ok,let's move on.The Olympics in China heralded in front page news articles HIGHLIGHTING their use of weather modification techniques to make sure they had dry weather for the games.This information was front page news folks. Weather modification ,geoengineering and cloudseeding are commonly accepted phrases and words in the field of atmospheric sciences today. None of these words or phrases hold any "conspiracy values" when discussed amongst the individuals who are in the field,,,NONE of THEM!!!The word "chemtrail" is not acknowledged in the "academic" field of atmospheric sciences ladies and gents. Let's keep going.Having enjoyed a lifetime of airshows and recreational flying since I was in my teens, my curiosity peeked in the early 90's with this new development in the skies. Let me state it this way,"If any of you reading this are in your early teens,you are the only ones who would be able to geninely say the skies are ,And have been, fiiled with "CONTRAILS" that quickly dissipate in a very short distance off a planes rear area and some, that are very long,that can be seen starting and stopping and cover up a clear blue sky and criss coss one another and happen within a certain interval or intervals of a day. However;if anybody reading this is let's say over thirty five years of age and does not have the memory to decisively recollect the way the sky appeared when jets flew through it ,,,,Kinda like in the 80's ,70's,60's ,,,I'll stop at this point,,,There are far bigger challenges for you ahead than discussing the technical elements and proof positive of geoengineering operations . I am close to the end here. I do not question the position that are skies are being filled with more than just jet fuel exaust when we witness the "PERSISTANT CONSPUGE" or whatever phrase that makes the discusiion more palatable when it is discussed.My question is what is it for and is it harmful to my health if I wish to go for a jog or a bicycle ride during a criss cross tic-tac-toe spray session. Depopulation? HAARP/Tesla techtonic,anti-enemy radar stealth shield,better conditions for high tech plasma powered antigravity aircraft or maybe we would all die from the intense rays of the sun without it.I do "not" know for sure what it is for,but I do know that anyone who says, "That's what planes DO",is either "A" in their early teens "B" a misinformation agent or "C" seriously riddled with some serious memory problems. The people who have the power to either use remote spray planes or get the stuff into in the tanks of commercial airliners also have the power to silence "almost" all commercial pilots,unless there are some in their early teens that I am not aware of. Hey ,I watched a recent news story of a flight controller letting his kids take to the mic for some early experience.I think he has run into some problems for doing this. I hope you all will take a personal inventory of simply the years that have passed and the beautiful skies that have gone with them.I PRAY to GOD that whatever has been the "CAUSE" of lucid individuals losing their recollection of THE SKIES IN PLAIN SIGHT of yesteryear and the simple science behind the dissipating contrails of those years that amazed us as children,,,,,,THAT IT BE BANISHED THIS VERY MOMENT !!!!! AMEN May great health be with you all in the years ahead!!!


Bard of Ely profile image

Bard of Ely 6 years ago from Lisbon, Portugal Author

Just to answer a couple of points: the Chinese weather manipulation was simply localised cloud-seeding - hardly a danger to the world or an example of what are called "chemtrails."

I remember very well skies as they were and we still get them so the only new factor really is the vast increase in planes up there and the amount of water that can crystallise into ice.

I also suggest you read JazzRoc's blog or Contrail Science if you have not done so.

I remain convinced there is no danger from persistent contrails or cirrus covered skies apart from that they cut out light and may trap heat.


JazzRoc 6 years ago

The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) has estimated that aviation’s total climate impact is some 2-4 times that of its CO2 emissions alone (excluding the potential impact of cirrus cloud enhancement). This is measured as radiative forcing. While there is uncertainty about the exact level of impact of NOx, SOx and water vapour, governments have accepted the broad scientific view that they do have an effect. Accordingly, more recent UK government policy statements have stressed the need for aviation to address its total climate change impacts and not simply the impact of CO2.

The IPCC has estimated that aviation is responsible for around 3.5% of anthropogenic climate change, a figure which includes both CO2 and non-CO2 induced effects.

Another way of looking at this, therefore, is that 96.5% of anthropogenic global warming is NOT due to aviation.

If we are "turning up the oven" by all our OTHER activities to the extent of 96.5%, we had better concentrate on THOSE. No?


Bard of Ely profile image

Bard of Ely 6 years ago from Lisbon, Portugal Author

Thank you for the info, JazzRoc!


Sem 6 years ago

JazzRoc, Bard of Ely I don't know if you were friends to begin with,

regardless isn't the whole issue the secrecy that is maintained such as this:

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/businesstech...

Discussion is pointless right if we are only proved right after the act has happened... like "great now I know how I got cancer" - like this can ever be justified...

The real issue is the real-time release of information from officials to anyone who is interested. If said officials can't or are not able to discuss & be persuasive on these issues then they are exposing preliminary flaws & should be ANSWERABLE for, let alone putting this into practice...

Clearly this isue has the interest of many now so why isn't information made available. If it's in the interest of National Security etc etc why can't they convince the people they explain it to of this - like they were convinced in the first place. When did it ever become acceptable for one person to lie (omission) to another...

Conspiracy theories are completely justiable & commendable in Today's climate - this is reason enough to endorse Chemtrails as real...


Bard of Ely profile image

Bard of Ely 6 years ago from Lisbon, Portugal Author

A simple answer is there is nothing for them to reveal and there is no secrecy over the matter. The sky has many many more planes and they leave loads of persistent contrails made up of ice crystals and these eoften form cirrus cloud. To my mind, that's it, end of debate! What conspiracy is there there?


Sem 6 years ago

If you click the link you will see the type of secrets I refer to. Everyone must keep an open-mind until this type of evidence is made transparent.

In the meantime an alternative needs to be provided like making the case for clear skies: increasing light levels, increasing air purity, increasing photosynthesis & crop yield & global production.

This type of action will indirectly bring scrutiny on the reason for & types of air trafic that are causing such overcast days - the very thing the chemtrail supporters, yourself & I all agree: that the deep blue skies are preferable.


Bard of Ely profile image

Bard of Ely 6 years ago from Lisbon, Portugal Author

I clicked the link and it appeared to be about a very large sum of money being spent on 100 planes. I must admit I couldn't really see exactly what you were driving at but I am tired having been out all day. I agree that 'normal' blue skies are much better though. The answer is for there to be a lot less planes but that's like saying we need a lot less cars - we do but try telling car manufacturers and car-buyers that!


Matthew 6 years ago

Bard, I don't know why you give any credit to a man such as JazzRock. He is a typical Dawkins atheist, who insists that anyone who believes in God is stupid, ignorant, and evil, despite the fact that most of us know many of the most prominent scientists in history have either been full on theists, or have denied atheism, preferring to remain agnostic or deistic. I myself am a member of Mensa, which puts me in the top 2 percentile for intelligence in the entire world, yet I fully believe there is a creator of our universe. Any time I am insulted by an atheist who makes such claims of lack of intelligence or education, I immediately put them on ignore, because anything else that comes out of their mouth is going to be tainted by that ignorant world view. Any time they begin to shoot their mouths off about 'facts' this, 'proof' that, I just remmeber that anyone can boast that they have the facts and the proof, and it may even often appear that way on the surface, but it would be irresponsible of you to just take a few pages of web copy as facts or proof of anything. Take molecules to man evolution. According to people such as JazzRock, its a fact, with absolute proof. Yet, even Dawkins is forced to admit: The account of the origin of life that I shall give is necessarily speculative; by definition, nobody was around to see what happened. - The Selfish Gene (1989) p.14

Dawkins, like myself, knows that you cannot really ever prove molecules to man evolution, because, contrary to the Scientific Method, you cannot observe it in action. That is why he says our origins are speculative, while arguing vehemently that its true fact, and anyone who disagrees is an idiot. People such as JazzRock are wholely deluded by a world view that simply refuses to believe in God. Facts have nothing to do with it. It's about emotionalism. It's not hard to see that when you read the types of things they say.

That being said, I got out of my car this morning in Washington D.C. to go walk into the office where I work, and the sky was literally covered in the offending trails - chemtrails? persistent contrails? I don't truly know what they are, but they are very suspicious. There wasn't a spot on the sky that wasn't covered by them. I do know this much. The vast majority of the people on this earth, and particularly this country, are living in denial. They remind me of the band that kept playing music as the Titanic was sinking. They implicitly trust their government, despite agreeing that politicians are corrupt. They agree that "other countries" do unspeakably evil things, and most know that history is rife with evils perpetrated by entire governments and nations, yet - not in this country! Our government would never do that! You conspiracy theorist nut job!

I for one consider myself awake. As the founding fathers of the U.S. were, I have a healthy distrust of governments of all kinds. Everyone should. You are a fool if you trust any government, democratic, or not. Power does indeed corrupt. And there are men and women who have and will continue to do great evils. Even in the U.S., history has shown this to be true - Small Pox infected blankets, Japanese concentration camps, The only nation in the world to ever nuke cities filled with civilians - TWICE!

The U.S. speak like a lamb, but has the horns of a dragon.

Wake up!

I will end on this note - A favorite quote of mine from the 19th century - If everyone is against you, you are either absolutely wrong, or absolutely right!


Bard of Ely profile image

Bard of Ely 6 years ago from Lisbon, Portugal Author

Mathhew, I have explained in full why I came to see that JazzRoc was indeed right about the trails and what they consist of. I have had no reason to see any evidence anywhere since to convince me otherwise. As for other beliefs, JazzRoc and I are poles apart. I believe fully in a God for starters!

Thank you for your feedback on the subject!


Toronto12 profile image

Toronto12 6 years ago from Toronto

there's a new documentary about chem trails coming out soon called - "What in the world are they spraying"...


JK 6 years ago

The "Contrails" or "Chemtrails" or whatever names you call them are one of the ways to awaken you during The Earth's Great Change. 2012 is true but the change does not begin December 21, 2012-it begins now and already started a few years ago. 2012 is just the beginning of a new earth. First, the Earth has to go through a change resulting in most of the world's population wiped out. Remember all those who will pass do not die. Remember also that before coming in to this life, you knew that this would happen even though you do not remember. Do not let people convince you that this change is happening because God hates us. That is not true. The change is now. The Mayans knew it and other ancient civilizations as well. Please wake up because space ships or basically "Alien crafts" mostly do not resemble the usual sketch you see in magazines or books and model/special effects you see in the movies. What I'm trying to say is the white cloudy lines you see in the sky are vehicles (sure they look like jets/planes) but space vehicles that are trying to show you who and what they are by coming in to the third dimension; we are just like "them" so, we cannot call "them" Aliens. We are them and they are us. The vehicles already made transitions past the fourth dimension and beyond. Planes, jets or any flying machine in the sky from the airlines, military or the government are not the cause of the white cloudy lines. If you look close at these vehicles for a long time, you'll see that they dematerialize. This is because the vehicles have to materialize in the third dimension for us to see them. Also these white line sometime start in the middle of the town/city where there is no runway or they take off suddenly in the middle of the sky; or the vehicles seem to descend into thin air. We are all on a different frequency or level of frequency. Dimensions are levels of frequencies. That is why we cannot see anything past the third dimension unless the vehicles materialize in our dimension (third). Now is the time that we will all begin to see if you have not already because the new frequencies will allow us; past the veil and illusion that is the truth of who we are. The third dimension is where we are now. The fourth dimension is the spiritual world -what people see and go during a near "death" experience. We are never born and will never die. We are all energy and made a choice to all live together on Earth. Earth is a project. I will tell you more and I can answer your questions better if you respond with a question first. You have to listen to me. This world is not real. We all lived many lives reincarnating from the spiritual world which is the practice and rest period in the fourth dimension and the actual experience for learning in the third dimension. We choose are parents, siblings, friends, companions, good and bad moments, sex, ethnicity and so on. "Deja Vu" happens because we are remembering scanning life review and moments we practiced in the forth dimension before coming in. 2012 is a grand scale plan to raise the level of consciousness -the energy and or frequency to transition to the Fifth dimension. The Gaia Project 2012 -The Earth's Coming Great Changes by Hwee-Yong Jang is the book you need to get and read now and then read it over and over again. Please remember that God loves everyone. Don't let others tell you otherwise because this is and was always part of a plan that is Earth. When the Earth's change gets really strong and bad such as the weather changing; earthquakes/floods/tornados/hurricanes/sickness/"global warming"/ volcano eruptions/oil spills/ riots/recession/increase of crime/people dying of "unknown" causes/violent wind speeds -people who say and tell you that they can save you from God's "punishment" are lost. This is not a punishment and a time to be lost. This book is important and you have to spread the word and love. Please do not have fear for love is very important always and forever...


Haha98 6 years ago

There is no such thing you all smoke to much cannibis and now you are all paranoid. FACT give it a rest


Bard of Ely profile image

Bard of Ely 6 years ago from Lisbon, Portugal Author

If you read what I have posted all the way through you would see that I agree with you! I agree there are no chemtrails!


Will Apse profile image

Will Apse 6 years ago

I imagine it must be frightening if you believe many scientists lie and you don't have the basic background knowledge to check.

The truth is science is one of most reliable sources of information when it comes to the physical world. Some creatures of the drug companies may peddle half-truths but for most scientists their reputation is everything. Get caught in an outright lie and that is the end of a career.

Who will turn in the liars? Every other scientist on the planet. Nothing is more loathed in science than fabrication or people who just want to get ahead, talent or no talent.


Bard of Ely profile image

Bard of Ely 6 years ago from Lisbon, Portugal Author

Will, I have heard JazzRoc say exactly the same! I don't find it very "frightening" to believe that there are lying scientists. I treat it as a fact of life - there are liars in all walks of life and many do very well at it! Are you trying to tell me that companies like Monsanto do not lie?


mandatory retirement 6 years ago

I have never heard or read about chemtrails or contrails before reading this article. One of the best pieces of information on this hub is to do your own research. While I haven't done any research yet, my gut reaction to this information is mixed.


Bard of Ely profile image

Bard of Ely 6 years ago from Lisbon, Portugal Author

I am glad to have brought the matter to your attention! Thank you for posting!


Country Girl 6 years ago

Okay, if chemtrails are not real, why did i see several jets making cross patterns across the sky where I live yesterday? The jets that normally fly past go in the same jet pattern from east to west every day. They do not go all over the place. Also, these jets were leaving long trails of expanding clouds in the sky. Then I saw a regular jet in its normal pattern, with a contrail that immediately dissipated. Not like the ones doing the cross patterns. The whole sky eventually was covered in this stuff they were emitting. All I know is what I saw with my own eyes. Funny how you changed you tune. Someone help you change your mind?


Bard of Ely profile image

Bard of Ely 6 years ago from Lisbon, Portugal Author

Yes, JazzRoc showed me the errors in my thinking and conclusions. I was simply wrong. As for what you have described it would appear to be a description of persistent contrails and a non-persistent contrail at a different layer in the sky. I don't see anything to be concerned about in that. Yes, the sky does get covered in the "stuff" which is ice crystals.


Country Girl 5 years ago

how do you explain the odd plane traffic? And the planes were one right behind eachother, really close. That does not happen with commerical traffic.


Bard of Ely profile image

Bard of Ely 5 years ago from Lisbon, Portugal Author

I can't! I wasn't there and don't know the flight paths or the traffic over your area that day but that does not stop me being sure that there were no chemtrails because I don't believe they exist. I can suggest that what appears to you to be "right behind each other" was probably an optical illusion and there was a great deal of space between them. I have seen this sort of thing happen here as it happens with several planes one after another all leaving trails. I assumed it was because the airport here is very busy at times or that planes from elsewhere were going over this airspace. There are a very great number of planes in the skies today. Maybe the `planes you saw were non commercial planes, possibly military but so what? Planes of all descriptions leave persistent contrails under the right conditions!


Concerned Human 5 years ago

Yea - mainly the odd plane traffic is the clincher - these are more likely drone aircraft - doing weather experimentation and possibly worse - Look into Monsanto developing aluminum resistant seeds - In case you dont know Monsanto wants to flat out OWN FOOD - period

they want to completely control everything that is meant for human consumption - its not hard to see how these 2 phenomenons cross paths -


Bard of Ely profile image

Bard of Ely 5 years ago from Lisbon, Portugal Author

I have a hub about Monsanto entitled Why are millions against Monsanto? and I hate the company but I don't think they have anything to do with persistent contrails which as far as I am concerned are what people are seeing.


YankeeRoo profile image

YankeeRoo 5 years ago from Sydney AUSTRALIA

Bard

This is a most interesting and intriguing hub. At first when you mentioned the name of the quack of 'David Icke' I thought this was going to be another garbage hub of hype, but later with references to Discovery and other credible people you redeemed yourself.

Still, the idea that commercial aircraft are intentionally polluting the skies is a bit far fetched - and I don't believe there are sufficient military aircraft flying everywhere to produce sufficient quantities of chemtrails to substantiate the webbing that the hub implies.

Still, one can never really trust the governments of this world. And yes we are probably a bit over populated.

Should the government have a culling programme? Sure, why not, let's start with these government nut cases and then move onto the drug traffickers and violent criminals.

As always, I enjoy your hubs! :)


Bard of Ely profile image

Bard of Ely 5 years ago from Lisbon, Portugal Author

Thanks for your comments, YankeeRoo! I just wish to add that I don't believe in chemtrails now and thought I had explained that in the article in the section: Update a change of belief.


Sky Queen 5 years ago

The planes are mostly white with some have red on them.

There is a No. but no name like commercial planes like USA on them.

They are from Evergreen Air.


Bard of Ely profile image

Bard of Ely 5 years ago from Lisbon, Portugal Author

I heard all that two years ago! If you had read this hub you would know that I do not believe in chemtrails, in fact the way that chemtrail believers keep rehashing stuff based on very little evidence at all - I saw the Evergreen website when I was investigating this years back and it shows no evidence of chemtrails - proves to me what a load of rubbish I now think the subject is!


Jane 5 years ago

Okay. Why are these long lasting contrails not seen before. I thought chemtrails were bunkum until I looked myself and saw hundreds of contrails that just stayed there and we are in a relatively unpopulated area. What the? It has ALWAYS been very cold up there - why no ice crystals before?


Bard of Ely profile image

Bard of Ely 5 years ago from Lisbon, Portugal Author

Have a look at contrailscience site. It is all explained on there. They have been seen before lots of times.

http://contrailscience.com/thirty-contrails-forty-...


TreZay 5 years ago

Its simple. Jazzrock works for them. They will make a million sites and report the incorrect to make you go.....ooooo fuk it. We got to be very careful of what we read. Keep spreading the words Bard. But be careful. Blessings Flow


Bard of Ely profile image

Bard of Ely 5 years ago from Lisbon, Portugal Author

You people never cease to amaze me with the nonsense you say and believe about JazzRoc. But thanks for posting anyway!


TreZay 5 years ago

YOU PEOPLE?


Bard of Ely profile image

Bard of Ely 5 years ago from Lisbon, Portugal Author

Yes all the chemtrail believers who post insane comments about JazzRoc a guy none of you know in person and are making stuff up about as you have just done! I know JazzRoc as I have repeatedly said and he doesn't "work for them" at all, in fact he gets a pension and when all this nonsense started was working a part-time community gardener. Chemtrail believers were posting rubbish about him online and then wonder why he loses his temper!


tugbo200-5 5 years ago

JazzRoc's ego is bigger then the chemtrail issue,your weakness proves it.


Bard of Ely profile image

Bard of Ely 5 years ago from Lisbon, Portugal Author

JazzRoc makes sense unlike a lot of the chemtrail belief system which offers no proof that can be verified or cannot be explained! As I now keep saying go to the Contrail Science site where everything is explained and Uncinus who runs it welcomes hearing from chemtrailers! I am, as I say, bored of it all because there is nothing to explain, nothing to fear and I have better things to do with my time than argue about the reality or non-reality of chemtrails! If you want to spend your days worrying about the matter that is up to you!


tugbo200-5 5 years ago

Bard

Believe it or not I have respect for you.

but for the life of me I can't understand for someone who claims they have researched the subject,and you say you are tired of people sending you "you tube" links,then you had to of watched "what in the world are they spraying".

This documentary has more then enough proof we are being poisoned,unless of course you are saying all the scientist,doctors,professors,engineers,biologist are all liars.

You were a firm believer in it before then in the blink of an eye you now go with ice crystals.I do know contrails are ice crystals but what we see today are Cemtrails.I also believe I will get a reply on the rude side ,like I'm bored with this or something in that order,no problem I got broad shoulders,

Also ,if you ever go to Mount Shasta don't eat the snow.Have a good day.


Bard of Ely profile image

Bard of Ely 5 years ago from Lisbon, Portugal Author

Well, I have watched What on Earth Are They Spraying and was not impressed so am surprised so many people are pushing it as if at last they have the proof they were looking for. What is this ground-breaking info? It comes over to me as a sensational, biased and cobbled together film that is no better than a mainstream media report and fails to prove anything more than there are a lot of willing chemtrail believers out there! Have you spent any time on the contrailscience site where all the phenomena are explained? I highly recommend it.

And no, it wasn't in the "blink of an eye" at all if you read my article you will see that doubts were creeping in when I was on holiday in Cardiff and finding no evidence of ill health to the population or the flora and fauna under heavily trailed skies!


tugbo200-5 5 years ago

Thanks for reply and i will check out the contrail science site.I also read all you write,very interesting.


Bard of Ely profile image

Bard of Ely 5 years ago from Lisbon, Portugal Author

I hope you find the site of interest! the guy who runs it welcomes chemtrail-believers feedback and questions!


Mushainzenkoans 5 years ago

Chemtrails are most certainly real.But,there is nothing sinister in what they are doing.They are attempting to avert a global cartography."Authorized by Congress and sponsored by the National Academy of Sciences, a monumental and in-depth study on global warming and possible corrective measures (mitigations) was undertaken in the early 1990s. Represented were senior researchers, faculty, theoreticians, atmospheric scientists, department heads and CEO's from a multitude of prestigious institutions. The Smithsonian, Harvard, General Motors, Cambridge, MIT, Yale, World Resources Institute, National Center for Atmospheric Research, the Secretary General of the United Nations, Oxford, Brookings Institution, Columbia University, Oak Ridge National Laboratory, Carnegie-Mellon University, Princeton University, Brown University, Lawrence Livermore Laboratory, and many more. This colossal study recalls the scope, expense and secrecy of the Manhattan Project, yet the goals and eventual impacts of it are far greater."They are trying to fix our failing ozone and overabundance of co2. [link to www.lightwatcher.com] "Why all the secrecy?

Due to the severity of the situation it is mandatory to maintain public calm for as long as possible. The Earth is dying. Humanity is on the road to extinction - without the Shield mankind will die off with in 20 to 50 years. Most people alive today could live to see this extinction take place. This means that an announcement of the situation we face boils down to telling every man, woman and child on earth that they have no future, they are going to be killed. People would panic. There would be economic collapse, the production and movement of goods would collapse. Millions would die in all cities on earth, riots and violence would reduce civilian centers to rubble within days. Half of the population in dense metropolitan areas would try to leave the cities seeking 'safety' in the rural areas thinking that they would be safe. Those left behind in the cities would be at war with their neighbors, fighting for the remaining supplies. We would be telling the world that the world is coming to an end, and even with the Shield the chances of survival are small."


Bard of Ely profile image

Bard of Ely 5 years ago from Lisbon, Portugal Author

I have read all that before which has been copied and pasted! I do not believe it is acceptable or verifiable as evidence but is just another part of the chemtrail belief system.


flidhais profile image

flidhais 5 years ago

I feel like I'm way behind since I only recently learned the term "chemtrail" but I had noticed my garden gradually doing worse and worse especially over the last two years. And other ppl also mentioned the same thing. I went hunting online and found the zillion chemtrail sites. I've been called a "crazy crap-spiracy" nut and even "defriended" by ppl who just couldn't grasp the concept I guess. Couldn't see how HAARP could apply either and apparently wanted "me" to personally educate them I guess, so they could call me a "crap-spiracist" again. I've been online so much now that I am wondering how I stay awake even...lol But I'm learning. Just glad I don't live in a city since they seem to get the most spray.

What do you think of this video? "Ex Govt Employee (CIA Insider) talks about CHEMTRAILS on THE POWER HOUR" It's 44+ min long and I'm trying to watch it since I'd like to send the link to others but it's taking me hours to view..I only have dial up and I actually "unplug" after I am off the net. Not paranoid or anything.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedd...


OpeningMinds 5 years ago

Bard of Ely - Did you ever think that maybe there is a different mixture in the chemtrails being sprayed over South Whales, a mixture that might actually benefit the environment? Was there ever any analysis of substance fall out from the chemtrails over South Whales? How can you make an intelligent decision or belief without bothering to do the required research? There has been substance fall out analysis in various parts of the US which prove that at least some of the con/chemtrails do have harmful contaminants to the environment and life.


Bard of Ely profile image

Bard of Ely 5 years ago from Lisbon, Portugal Author

I actually don't agree that any analysis that can be really checked out has been done anywhere but rather a lot of paranoid info is being passed along by people who have very little understanding of atmospheric phenomena which actually account for all the so-called chemtrail reports! there is no "mixture" but just contrails and cirrus cloud from them worldwide being reported as chemtrails. As for the crap about aluminium it is, as I have repeatedly stated, a very common naturally occurring element all over the planet! In many ways I am amazed with myself that I once bought into this belief system! It is actually very simple: there are a hell of a lot more planes up there than ever before. They leave persistent contrails and usually these spread and create cirrus cloud cover. That's it! Everything else is a conspiracy theory/meme with very little actual evidence!


OpeningMinds 5 years ago

Even when these groups, or maybe better put as "think tanks" say that they are adding and want to continue adding these elements to the environment, you want to deny what they say? That makes no sense, that's like saying Hitler did not cause genocide on the Jews even though he preached it. If someone threatens to harm you are you going to believe that they could harm you and protect yourself or tell yourself that they didn't really mean to say that? Let me tell you from experience if someone says they want to harm you, you better prepare yourself because that is what they mean to do.


Bard of Ely profile image

Bard of Ely 5 years ago from Lisbon, Portugal Author

They are "think tanks" - in other words ideas! Aluminium is all over the planet anyway but chemtrail- believers seem to ignore this fact and demonise the element. I could find plenty of aluminium in soil and water samples and it didn't come from planes.The whole idea of chemtrails as a feasible programme makes less and less sense to me the more I look at it in terms of cost, practicality of application, evidence for in all these years, number of insiders who have whistle-blown on the subject, and finally, and perhaps the most important of all, evidence of any one actually being seriously harmed or dying from being exposed to contrails and cirrus cloud a long way above them in over a decade! If you wish to believe in this, in my opinion nonsense, then be my guest! I have a lot better things to occupy my time on! Where amongst the words of any of the "think tanks" does any one say they wish to harm anyone?


OpeningMinds 5 years ago

Yes Aluminum is all over the planet, but it is not naturally in the form of tiny particles that you breath in from the air. Just to clear things up a little, I didn't say that they said they wish to harm anyone, what I said was they said they are adding and want to continue adding these elements to the environment. For a more relevant example maybe I should use this one: You are tired of eating the same old thing, so you say that you want to eat something new, then you go and eat something new.


Bard of Ely profile image

Bard of Ely 5 years ago from Lisbon, Portugal Author

Aluminium is what makes clay. Clay is all over the planet and when dry forms clay dust. This obviously goes into the air in windy conditions. When I was a child there was a big pond I used to catch newts in. The reason that pond existed was because it was in an area of mostly clay soil and this is in a large park. People don't take air and water samples there and then worry because aluminium was detected. Of course it would be as it is a major constituent of clay. Any geologist would know that but chemtrail-believers are not geologists and are not scientists so they know very little about the make up of the planet, about atmospheric conditions or optical effects, however, they are keen to pass on unscientific knowledge, paranoia and unsubstantiated reports. They are at the same time unwilling to listen to scientists and official people who claim that there are no chemtrails.


Bryan396 5 years ago

Chemtrails Morgellons ands Self Assembling Polymers-- Chemtrail Detox Protocol

FYI...I am working with some lead researchers on this.

Please spread to all infowariors and others.

detox and protect yourself.

Bryan396

Chemtrails and Polymers

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/37865095/Chemtrail_Self_As...

Chemtrail Polymer Detox Protocol

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/37865095/Chemtrail%20Polym...

Zero Point Energy / Energy into Matter

The Frequency (HAARP) Connection.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/37865095/Zero%20Point%20En...


Bard of Ely profile image

Bard of Ely 5 years ago from Lisbon, Portugal Author

There's nothing to research seeing as chemtrails don't even exist!


jwebb 4 years ago

i've seen many airline planes in sacramento, CA and even as a kid i never saw those white lines(i only saw the contrails from military jets as sacramento had 2 air force bases so i saw a lot of military jets), now we only have 1 active base and the very few times i saw a trail the trail was maybe 2 inches long(im looking from the ground)and never stayed in the air for more than a minute. What gets me is the planes making the trails are unmarked and are commercial airline jets, i've seen these planes change directions(if you know anything about aviation, planes fly straight to their destination and dont make what look like X's or tic tac toe in the sky. im writing this from my lunch break at work and as i was walking back i saw a commercial plane that had no trails coming out of it...also i find it hard to believe 10 years ago there was less air traffic, 11 years ago 9/11 happened and we all know everyone was scared to fly again. so the statement about it being more air traffic is nonesense.


Bard of Ely profile image

Bard of Ely 4 years ago from Lisbon, Portugal Author

You need to do some research: the air traffic has increased tremendously! Why do you think they are building new airports all the time? That IS a big part of the problem because it all adds to the amount of water being dumped up there! The planes are not unmarked but it is simply you cannot see anything on them due to blue light scattering effect. You appear to be a typical chemtrail-believer that makes the standard mistakes, accepts the chemtrail belief propaganda and refuse to accept the opinion of anyone that counters that belief! So it is probably a waste of time arguing with you. If you wish to carry on with your paranoia that is up to you! I can only offer once again as I have done so many times: go and have a look at the contrailscience site where all is explained in great detail.


Flamingo 4 years ago

I think Bard of ely and Jazz roc's is the same man. Just has a split peronality. And if not Bard of ely would rather take notice of Jazz and agree and suck up to him like a little puppy.But when he has read reports ect from proffessional all these years before and still did not agree. Very strange!


Bard of Ely profile image

Bard of Ely 4 years ago from Lisbon, Portugal Author

Even stranger how people like you can come up with sheer nonsense like that! But perhaps not because maybe a lot of you chemtrail belirvers and conspiracy theorists prefer believing in fantasies to reality?


Ignorance is bliss 4 years ago

I live in the middle of nowhere. But airplane traffic has increase since 2012. Planes criss-cross and form these white clouds. At sundown the mountains look polluted and I can't see them clearly as I use too, especially the fact that I live far away from the City.


Bard of Ely profile image

Bard of Ely 4 years ago from Lisbon, Portugal Author

It may well have done but that is no proof of chemtrails, rather it is evidence of increased air traffic, persistent contrails and cirrus cloud.


Ignorance is bliss 4 years ago

I know contrails are form from cold air up in the atmosphere. Can you explain how in a hot dry climate do contrails form and engulf our blue skies with white clouds. I don't even live next to a major airport and increase traffic does not make any sense, because these airplanes don't leave the area. They circulate back and forth, I say these because I see them all the time. Where I live nothing blocks my view of the sky, there isn't a lot of houses. It's a small town and I can see everything.


Bard of Ely profile image

Bard of Ely 4 years ago from Lisbon, Portugal Author

Far above where you are is not the same temperature at all. It is very cold up there! Planes go over areas that are nowhere near airports. Contrails remain and give a false impression from the ground.


Ignorance is bliss 4 years ago

So what happen to our Blue Skies? Every time I look up there is nothing but white clouds and airplanes spraying contrails as you say it. Most of the time there is an overcast of these clouds covering our Sun, but no drizzle or rain?


Bard of Ely profile image

Bard of Ely 4 years ago from Lisbon, Portugal Author

Two things have happened: firstly there are far far more planes up there and secondly the climate is changing all over the planet so weather patterns are messed up! Where I live we are suffering from an ongoing drought.


Ignorance is bliss 4 years ago

I've notice when a storm is coming and the rain clouds are moving in to cover our skies. I don't see any airplanes with contrails, does that mean that all the airplanes just don't produce contrails on a rainy day, especially when The stratosphere is much colder.


Bard of Ely profile image

Bard of Ely 4 years ago from Lisbon, Portugal Author

Down here we cannot see the invisible layers in the sky. They are different. Some are moisture laden. Planes move from one to another but we cannot see that. Planes produce contrails when they are at the right altitude and under the right conditions. Otherwise they don't!


Ignorance is bliss 4 years ago

So on sunny days and clear skies, we are fortunate to see more contrails than usual because they are in the right conditions. So What you are saying is that contrails should dissipate much faster than what I see currently. So Why are these contrails spreading into white clouds and polluting our atmosphere if it's only made of moisture laden? Our mountains are no longer visible in any direction when the moisture conditions are met.


Bard of Ely profile image

Bard of Ely 4 years ago from Lisbon, Portugal Author

No, this is a myth that contrails dissipate quickly! They can take a long time and that is why they are called persistent contrails. Please read the link below from which this quote is taken: "One of the environmental impacts of aviation is that persistent contrails can form into large mats of cirrus, and increased air traffic has been implicated as one possible cause of the increasing number of cirrus clouds." From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cirrus_cloud


Ignorance is bliss 4 years ago

I have been to other countries and I have not seen this phenomenon of Cirrus clouds forming from contrails. So what you are saying is that persistent contrails only occur in America because of increased air traffic. So other countries are fortunate, because their airplanes do not produce contrails and do not pollute their air with Cirrus clouds. What's the difference between this country and others, it's only one planet with the same atmospheric elements. I'd rather see clear skies, as I've seen in other parts of the world.


Bard of Ely profile image

Bard of Ely 4 years ago from Lisbon, Portugal Author

Please do some more research! Most other countries have experienced the phenomenon and that is why 'chemtrail' reports are not just from America at all but from Canada, the UK, Germany, Italy, Spain and many other places. I have seen the skies covered with trails and cloud in the UK and here in Tenerife off the northern coast of Africa. Perhaps Americans tend to report them more though. The only way we will have clear skies again is if a lot less air traffic occurs and that isn't looking very likely what with more airports being built and existing ones made bigger.


Ignorance is bliss 4 years ago

Well from my experience you can obviously tell that these airplanes select certain areas they want to cover with contrails. I've also notice that they are more concern with covering the Sun. So coverage is more dense than normal and about the Cirrus clouds, they don't even look like the pictures I've seen in the internet. You can even see the airplanes make several passes in the same area until the skies are completely cover with white dense clouds. These clouds look like platforms in the sky and not wispy lines cover by Cirrus clouds. Like I said before my town looks polluted. I don't even live close to the big city. The mountain side looks more and more foggy gray with low visibility and I already know about the other countries you mention.


Bard of Ely profile image

Bard of Ely 4 years ago from Lisbon, Portugal Author

I have heard people saying stuff like you are doing many times before but have personally not seen anything that cannot be explained as normal air traffic and cloud formation. The contrailscience website which invites people to send in their questions about 'chemtrails' hasn't either and neither has my friend JazzRoc. That is a mystery don't you think that out of countless reports, videos and photos none have made anyone who knows about atmospheric science and aviation stop and wonder what is going on? It appears that it is only you chemtrail-believers that can see a problem!


Ignorance is bliss 4 years ago

How can something be normal if last year, there wasn't any dense cloud formation and no persistent contrails. All of a sudden air traffic just double from a few months. Other areas of these country were not affected by persistent contrails and now all of a sudden contrails are covering there blue skies. I'm not seeking answers or explanations. I know exactly what's going on.


Bard of Ely profile image

Bard of Ely 4 years ago from Lisbon, Portugal Author

It is totally normal for weather conditions to change. It would be abnormal if it didn't! You can have a lot of air traffic and not see it. It is only when you see conspicuous trails you become aware of it. If you are "not seeking answers or explanations" why have you done so in your comments here?


Tom 3 years ago

Aluminum is supposed to be one of the major elements in chemtrails it is also one of the major elements used for jamming radar. My question is this, If millions of gallons of spray containing aluminum are being put into the air on any given day how is it both ground and aircraft radar do not "see"it. Even a very small amount of aluminum makes a very large radar signature and yet they are never reported by any pilots anywhere even though they are flying in the same airspace and at the same altitudes as alleged chem aircraft.


Bard of Ely profile image

Bard of Ely 3 years ago from Lisbon, Portugal Author

Good question to which the answer is that it isn't being done!

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