Are you better off than you were four years ago? - ranting away.


It has been a while since I have stopped long enough to put some of my frustrations to ink.


I really don’t know where to start sometimes. The Political Season is full bore now, and we are getting ever so close to that very important date – Nov 6th. A date that will determine the course this nation will take. That being, we continue as we have for the last 6 plus years, with a stale economy and a dismal outlook or I pray it will be a moment in time where we can all look back and see that day as when we took back our Country, and gave it back to the people.


Okay, that may sound a little dramatic. But, you know, I can still look back to when Ronald Reagan took the office and made his promises to us. I watched him deliver them. I have a warm and fuzzy feeling as I reminisce on those days. He took office with double digit unemployment, double digit inflation and depressing times. In a matter of months, we saw our economy boom. The housing market exploded. Good time had returned.


Actually, this is not where I was heading with this hub, but I kind of got on a tangent. What really led me to start this hub is when I read how we NOW have over 100,000,000 United States citizens that are dependent upon some form of government hand-out. That is 1/3 or our population. I’m not talking about our Social Security or Medicare programs. Those are programs that we all paid into and we are “supposed” to get them back. I am talking about Government Programs that are supplying aid in the form of welfare. Food Stamps alone is hovering over 46 million right now. Amazingly, it has doubled since Obama has taken office. Also, to boot, it was paid for by 49% of the population that is paying taxes. The other 51% do not pay into any of this.


One has to wonder, WHAT in the world is going on? This is not the way our Nation should be running right now. I cannot help but to believe that this is nothing more than an extremely elaborate scheme by a certain political “party” to secure a segment of our population to “get out and vote” to assure that the hand that is feeding them will not be bitten. This party is campaigning “fear” into many citizens. Biden is telling the black population that Romney will have them back in chains if he gets elected. Medicare will cease and people will die. It really seems to me that he and his boss earnestly WANT our Nation to be divided.


When Obama first took office, he told the republicans they could go along for the ride, but to stay out of the way. Then, has the gall to say they are the party of “no”. Never once has he honestly tried to reach across the aisle to pass a bill that would create jobs or spur our economy in a fashion that would actually work. Yet, he has done nothing but blame others for his failures. It is Bush’s fault, the tsunami’s fault, it is big oil’s fault, or Bush’s fault, the Tea Party’s fault, Europe’s fault or Bush’s fault. (Sorry, I may have been a little cynical there). The point is, Obama made the claims and promises to keep. He has failed.


According to Obama, it was unpatriotic when Bush ran up our debt to $10 trillion, but he has added $5.6 trillion to it in less than four years. I guess he had no choice to do so. Our jobless rate was at 7.8% when he was sworn in, and it is now at 8.3%. Gas prices were around $2 a gallon, and has since hovered around $4 a gallon.


I can go on and on, and I’m not even sure where I was going with all of this, but to basically say this. We do need some hope and change, like we have never needed it before. Now, I know I am not going to convince anyone to think differently, but I feel better letting lose with another rant. Just ask yourself the famous question “Are you better off than you were four years ago”. Please be honest.


I appreciate everyone who took the time to read this.


Comments 242 comments

billybuc profile image

billybuc 4 years ago from Olympia, WA

I am much better off than I was four years ago; that's because I am moving towards self-sufficiency. I have no faith in government....no faith in big business.....so it's time my family and I take steps to separate ourselves from the insanity. I wish you well and best of luck. Interesting hub!


Mr. Happy profile image

Mr. Happy 4 years ago from Toronto, Canada

"According to Obama, it was unpatriotic when Bush ran up our debt to $10 trillion, but he has added $5.6 trillion to it in less than four years."- Very true. And this is how it will continue. No matter if Obama or Romney wins in November.

The entire political and economic system is rigged. Lobbyists and their super-packs have fully hijacked the government. When we see how Bush the Second and Obama both gave away welfare/bailouts to corporations and banks, it all becomes clear who the politicians represent ... and it is not the common man, that's for sure.

Corruption is running wild, billions will be spent on this election yet, there is no money for education, there is no money for health care, no money to help the duped homeowners (i.e. Florida, California, etc.) who lost most of the value in their homes due to no fault of their own ...

Yes, much to think about. It remains to be seen what we are ready to do, I suppose.

All the best!


BLACKANDGOLDJACK profile image

BLACKANDGOLDJACK 4 years ago from Blitzburgh area

Obama had his shot for 4 years and he just made the mess worse.

We don't know what Romney can do to turn the tide, but in my humble opinion he deserves his shot more than Obama deserves another term.

What really ticks me off is that you don't get much objective discussion of the issues. You get talking heads with an agenda spouting propaganda to belittle the opposition. Some of the threads on the forums on this site are just as pathetic.


lrc7815 profile image

lrc7815 4 years ago from Central Virginia

Congratulations on completing your rant. I don't agree with you but I know how good it feels to express political frustration. I do it too. lol

Am I better off than four years ago. No. I have recently been laid off and find it is extremely difficult for someone my age to find work. If I could live on minimum wage, it would be much easier but I am paying over $655 a month for private health insurance. That is not Obama's fault. After a recent storm, I was without electricity for 5 days. When I got my electric bill, it was double it's normal cost. The electric company raised their rates to cover the expense of restoring power. That's not fair, nor is it Obama's fault. Grocery store prices continue to rise due to drought and the price of transportation. That's not Obama's fault. I could go on.

It's an election year and we're all too eager to blame everything on the candidates. The truth is, we hold some responsibility. If we had stopped using so much fuel when gas prices went to $4 a gallon, we could have stopped the gouging. But, we are spoiled rotten. We don't want to do anything to lessen our comfort, even if it means paying for it in the long run. My point is, no matter who we elect, the problems in this country will not go away until we, as citizens, start taking responsibility for ourselves and stop looking to blame everyone else for what is wrong. Honestly, I don't have the solution but I know our country is in a real mess. This election is not going to fix it, no matter who gets elected because the problems are a lot deeper. The positive side is that we are all still free to express ourselves. Thanks Hubpages, for giving us all a platform for our rants.


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 4 years ago from Beautiful Upstate New York

An occasional rant is a good thing, for several reasons. I'm pretty much in line with bill. I simply do not trust gov't to any degree. We truly need to take responsibility for our lives. Big business is another word for GREED and they represent American Thievery......I'm not willing to sit back and simply "wait & see," WHO will rescue us or HOW they will get our country back to the way it was originally intended and managed to prosper for so long.......

How much are we willing to suffer? How long can we place our faith in immoral, misinformed Politicians?

Time to pull ourselves up and out on our own terms with our own blood, sweat and tears.

The "insanity" has reached an all-time high. How sensible is it to expect it to end anytime soon?

I'm not extremely better than 4 years ago, in terms of lifestyle.....but certainly no worse, thanks to our own hard work and diligence in "rearranging" our lifestyle to our benefit. It's a constant struggle uphill, but must be done and it's worth it. We need to win.....and one doesn't win by waiting for the other guy to lose!!!!!


Chris Dane profile image

Chris Dane 4 years ago from Maryland, USA

Cmerritt, Mr. Happy, Obama has actually overseen the smallest increase in spending of any president in 60 years. The reason the debt continued to expand was because of structured deficits, spending written into law by the Bush administration, especially the Bush tax cuts, which make up 25% of the current annual deficit. When Obama tried to end the Bush tax cuts, set to expire after 2010, the GOP dug in like a tick.

When Obama had a democratic congress, the deficit came in under projections for 2009. It went up a bit in 2010 from the stimulus and, of course, the Dems knew the GOP was coming in and left the budget for them to do. It's year three, still no budget. Paul Ryan won't even make a promise of when the budget will be balanced. Here's a hint: it won't be until after 2030.

No, if Romney comes in, the deficit skyrockets even more, with Ryan's plan increasing spending by 13% over 5 years and adding 2 trillion more to the debt on top of the current expansion rate, and Romney promising to decrease revenue even further by keeping the Bush tax cuts and expanding them for the wealthy. The deficit spending that's killing the country is the one going to the wealthiest, who don't need it (record profits three years running) and don't use it to increase jobs (it would have worked by now if it were to work at all: how many more years do we wait for tax cuts to create jobs? It's been twelve!!!) This is madness, and it certainly isn't "Smarta". (300)


WillStarr profile image

WillStarr 4 years ago from Phoenix, Arizona

" Obama has actually overseen the smallest increase in spending of any president in 60 years."

Ah, the tricks an accountant's pencil can perform. Obama has actually spent more than all other presidents COMBINED! He is the biggest spender in history, so don't let some accounting sleight of hand fool you!

Obama has graced Newsweek's front cover before, but this time, the headline says it's time for him to go!


Chris Dane profile image

Chris Dane 4 years ago from Maryland, USA

WillStarr, the accounting sleight of hand was Bush's. He reduced debt projections from 10 years to 5 years, to mask the structural deficit. When Obama got into office, he restored all deficit projections to take full account of the mess we were in. So don't you dare accuse me of accountant's pencil art. "Under Obama" is different than Obama: under Obama, the spending is greater than under past administrations. Of that spending, Obama only contributed a portion. The wars, the tax cuts, the unfunded entitlements BUSH AND A GOP CONGRESS passed are still not paid for annually. So sure, blame Obama. It's your credibility on the line, not mine.


CMerritt profile image

CMerritt 4 years ago from Pendleton, Indiana Author

Hi billy,

Thanks for dropping by, we ALL need to take steps, on our own, if we want to keep our heads afloat. We cannot depend on our Government nor those on Wall Street.

I appreciate your remarks.

Chris


CMerritt profile image

CMerritt 4 years ago from Pendleton, Indiana Author

Mr. Happy it is good to hear from you,

No argument here with your claims of corruption running wild in Washington. It is time WE, the people hold them accountable.

I appreciate your words,

Chris


CMerritt profile image

CMerritt 4 years ago from Pendleton, Indiana Author

Hello Blackandgoldjack!

I am with you, that Obama BLEW his opportunity. BIG TIME. IMHO, he lacked the leadership abilities to lead us through some difficult times. It is MY belief, that Romney/Ryan have the experience and the fortitude to become the leaders we so badly need.

Yes, this may be a pathetic lead into some of the same old –same old conversations.

Chris


CMerritt profile image

CMerritt 4 years ago from Pendleton, Indiana Author

lrc7815, nice to meet you!

I disagree with one of your points. You say “no matter who we elect, the problems in this country will not go away” I think it matters more than ever, on “who we elect”. Sure we ALL must be accountable for own actions. Obama and his ilk, further the dependency of those who do not have that desire to be responsible. Also, I too, am not a fan of pointing fingers, and rather someone step up and let actions back up their words. Obama failed with that.

I honestly do appreciate meeting you and agree we are all free to express ourselves…and nothing beats a good rant.  :)

Chris


WillStarr profile image

WillStarr 4 years ago from Phoenix, Arizona

Chris Dane,

Stop drinking the Jay Carney Kool-Aid:

http://blog.heritage.org/2012/05/24/the-carney-koo...


CMerritt profile image

CMerritt 4 years ago from Pendleton, Indiana Author

fpherj48,

Good to hear from you.

The only way I know how to begin to pull ourselves up our own terms is by electing the right people to do the job we send them to Washington to do. That is what I found intriguing by the Tea Party. That is all they are basically about. People of tired of the abuse in Washington with our money. Congress is at an all-time low in approval ratings at 10%!!

I want my hard work to be rewarded. Not punished. That is the trend our POTUS and government has set the last few years. We do need a change.

Great to hear from you, and your thoughts are appreciated.

Chris


Chris Dane profile image

Chris Dane 4 years ago from Maryland, USA

Will Starr, I love the Heritage Foundation. They're the ones who created the individual mandate in ObamaCare. What they fail to do here, though, is show that Romney/Ryan also increases the deficit, but without those 2 trillion dollar tax hikes, so it's basically double deficit damage. Obama still comes in more fiscally conservative than they do.

I had no idea Jay Carney said anything, because I do my own research and only point to blogs if I think they made a point more eloquently and succinctly than I care to type. So, why don't you put on your little thinking cap, grab a calculator, and start making your own koolaid. k thx.


CMerritt profile image

CMerritt 4 years ago from Pendleton, Indiana Author

Chris Dane,

Glad to see you come by, and like normal, we disagree…. : )

Please don’t forget that many of those “bush laws” were written by democrats who were in charge since 2006. Yes, Bush made some very, very poor mistakes during his last couple of years in office. He DID allow WAY too much spending.

That does NOT forgive Obama and HIS promises of cutting our deficit in HALF by the first term. He missed it big…He promised unemployment would NOT exceed 8%. He missed it big.

Btw, Congress has offered budgets every year, only to be rejected by the senate, who has failed to come up with one.

Also, you say “Romney is promising to decrease revenue by keeping the Bush Tax cuts”…I say, under his economic plan…revenue WILL increase. Consumer confidence will flourish once someone has a real plan that investors will not be afraid of to return to the investor world. I hope we get the opportunity to “show you”

Chris


CMerritt profile image

CMerritt 4 years ago from Pendleton, Indiana Author

Hi Will!!

You have since I have met you, been able to pretty much "represent" most of my thoughts regarding Washington. So please, speak away, and let'r rip!

Chris


Josak profile image

Josak 4 years ago from variable

Well personally... Yes I have relatives back from Iraq thanks to the Dems ending that war, one of my kids will soon be covered by healthcare plan which is great, I am small business owner and bizarrely my taxes have slightly fallen. 4 years ago everything was going to hell in a real way the stock market was crashed unemployment was rising faster than it ever has in American history and GDP growth was negative NOW the stock market is ok, unemployment is stable and falling very slightly (yes real unemployment) GDP is growing etc.

I have a better question for Americans, in 2008/9 were you better or worse off after 8 years of conservative economic policy than you were under Clinton? Because you know poverty grew enormously etc. even though you guys were left with a healthy economy...


WillStarr profile image

WillStarr 4 years ago from Phoenix, Arizona

Well Chris Dane, I know your mind is made up, so I won't waste time on you. In any case, most Americans already know very well that Obama is the biggest spender in history. Trouble is, one out of three are now on the welfare receiving end of all that spending, and half no longer pay income taxes under Obama, so guess who they will vote for?

The host cannot survive all those parasites very long.


CMerritt profile image

CMerritt 4 years ago from Pendleton, Indiana Author

Josak,

I have to say, despite having a two wars, the worst attack on US soil, the worst Hurricane in history hit our shores....the economy was great. Until, the dems could no-longer control the obnoxious failure of Fannie & Freddie, and ONLY then did we have our economy begin to buckle....Wall Street finally collapesed. Even then, it was not until the 2007 take over of radical liberals....when the bottom dropped.

To me, it is so simple to see and understand. It is not complicating. I hope some common sense is restored in Washington, and the nature of our economic system is allowed to function as it was meant to be.


Chris Dane profile image

Chris Dane 4 years ago from Maryland, USA

Cmerritt, good to see you, too! I don't know why you're clinging to that post 2006 thread, though. Most of the Bush spending (unfunded tax cuts, war spending, and yes, the unfunded deficit entitlement) were pre-2006 Dem election and all GOP. As for your not forgiving Obama for the missed projections, if I may refer you to my article addressing that:

http://hubpages.com/politics/America-Derailed-The-...

I normally avoid posting links to my own hubs, but it addresses everything you just said. Let me know what you think. So, keep ranting!


50 Caliber profile image

50 Caliber 4 years ago from Arizona

Chris, good to see you light a fire, there are many things I can get after that to some they refuse to hear or see,

Obama: hates Arizona and our governor so he sued us and invited all countries with possible illegal "refugees" from entering our state, He with holds the ability to put water back in Tombstone, out of the "because he can" for spite

He attempted to bribe a candidate for a congress seat to throw the election, he was not charged with an impeachable crime.

He put troops in Lybia and lied saying he didn't, he ignored the rule of time to get congressional approval at the same time, I think I'm confused here, was it Syria? but the place really doesn't matter it's ignoring the rule of constitutional law. Time and again.

He allowed China to take advantage of the new silent rear rudder steer prop on the helicopter that went down while supposedly taking out Bin Laden, I still think is a sham.

He leaked military secrets on television in conversation with Putin, is that not treason?

Fast and Furious, an end run to our 2nd amendment rights.

His secretary of state hates him and he hates her. She runs her own agendas from the Clinton years, trying to get the UN-Peace Treaty ratified in all the smoke and mirrors, another end run for the second amendment.

It is more than money on the table here now, it is whether or not the constitution lives in 2014.

We've got a load of crooks like Pelosi and Holder in the pile. A change of party President may see to some charges and convictions by 2016 after all is Holder going to bring charges for Fast and Furious when he is complicit as is Obama and Clinton would be my big wager. We need to change the diaper on Washington to see why it stinks, Obama can come back and try again in 4 years provided he's not skipped due to charges to Bolivia or Ecuador to evade the penalty for treason as an excuse,

just some of my uniformed opinions.

I'm glad to see you rant a bit, if we can keep the dead from voting and the illegals too, we might get a chance to see what's new in the stack of unread papers that lay hidden on he hill of thieves.

Move a desk and a chair to the new US Capital in Texas some where with a line by line amendment addition removal vote done to restore the government to the original size. It would be interesting to see how it works out.

I reckon that's all my red neck can come up with right now, voted you up all the way,

Peace and Blessings,

dust


Josak profile image

Josak 4 years ago from variable

Chris... the economy was far from great in any respect, firstly growth with the bubble of subprime loans removed was lower than it is now after the crisis! at about 1% per year, poverty rose fast throughout all of Bush's presidency and he skyrocketed the debt long before Dems got into congress.

Remember he was left with a strong economy, low spending, falling poverty and great growth, even long before the crisis Bush's economy was a complete failure.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:US_poverty_rate_...


BLACKANDGOLDJACK profile image

BLACKANDGOLDJACK 4 years ago from Blitzburgh area

Now there's part of the problem. People cite Wikipedia and think it's the Gospel.

So let me ask you a couple questions, Josak. Or Chris Dane, or anybody else who eat Obamabaloney. Just to focus on a couple issues that most people don't consider to be economic.

1. Will same-sex marriage have any effect on what I, or you, pay the government?

2. If abortion is covered under Obamacare, will I, or you, be paying for abortions?


Josak profile image

Josak 4 years ago from variable

The image hosted on wikipedia is better is all on the BLS it just has the raw data and it's not as well presented, if you look at the image it cites it source which can be easily checked (it's US census data).

#1 potentially yes, married couples have certain benefits that non married coupled don't have and as such if that causes a necessity for a tax rate change it could affect (very minutely) what we pay the government but so does any couple getting married. As far as whether it should be allowed that is non a issue because the quantities are small and it's simply the by product of equal treatment, moral societies don't sacrifice equal treatment for economic savings. (For example slavery was economically beneficial but morally unacceptable so is denying people equal rights in marriage).

#2 Potentially yes (I think, I determined not to check for the sake of honesty) but I have no problem with that, why? Because the vast majority of the time when children are born to people who considered abortion they either put them into foster care (which costs the taxpayer tons) or keep the baby but can't care for it financially and thus depend on the state which costs the taxpayer tons. From an economic perspective funded abortion is a good thing. I don't think abortion is ethical but that's a separate issue.

As for eating "Obamabaloney" I am an economist and I keep myself very well informed economically speaking not only in the US but internationally I have several times been employed to create and analyze state budgets etc. I almost guarantee I am better informed than you, don't make uninformed assumptions.


ib radmasters profile image

ib radmasters 4 years ago from Southern California

An economist is like a meteorologist and sometimes they make a prediction that comes true. Although the meteorologists have a better record.

Where were all the economists in 2007? Yes, I know the economy collapsed in 2008.


WillStarr profile image

WillStarr 4 years ago from Phoenix, Arizona

Sometimes it's not about money.

Sometimes, it's about a nation's morality (or the lack of it).


Josak profile image

Josak 4 years ago from variable

Well actually ib rad, many economists, in fact most economists, including myself were talking about how incredibly dangerous the NINJNA loans were and how we were creating a massive bubble, but while people can see profit to be made in the short term they will ignore reason and the long term view I was off by a few months for when it would happen I must admit (the collapse). Nouriel Roubini for example predicted it down to the week almost and had been warning about it for years. The problem a lot of the time is people don't listen to us.

WilStarr, that is exactly what I am saying.


tsadjatko profile image

tsadjatko 4 years ago from maybe (the guy or girl) next door

I believe the democrat party had control of both the House and Senate, starting January 4th, 2007, when the recession began. The democrats kept control until the voters chose the republican party to reclaim the House starting on January 3rd, 2011, after the first two years of Barack Obama's presidency. How can Bush alone be blamed for spending that can only originate in congress, a congress he didn't control his whole term but one that could not be stopped when it was in cohoots with Obama his first two years?


WillStarr profile image

WillStarr 4 years ago from Phoenix, Arizona

Bush let the Dems spend and spend for some reason. We often asked if Bush had lost his veto pen!

But Bush was tight-fisted compared to the big spender in the White House now! He has spent more than all other presidents combined!


tsadjatko profile image

tsadjatko 4 years ago from maybe (the guy or girl) next door

"Bush let the dems"?How could he stop them if they had control of congress for two years - they have to have some of the blame at least for the spending over those two years- where as Obama has no one to blame but himself and his own party - besides his budgets would put more spending in hyper drive and even the democrats in congress won't vote for them. Blame Bush is just a disingenuous excuse for Obamoonies from an old play book. Bush, guilty, maybe yes, but not guilty as charged!


CMerritt profile image

CMerritt 4 years ago from Pendleton, Indiana Author

I have NO arguments what-so-ever with everything you posted. I think your “Uninformed opinions” or more informed than you think. We need some good honest folks like yourself in Washington to do the right thing.

Chris


CMerritt profile image

CMerritt 4 years ago from Pendleton, Indiana Author

Josak,

YOU said “Remember he was left with a strong economy” referring to Bush…..Have you conveniently forgotten the “Dot Com Bubble” bursting in 2000? It flat-lined the stock market!

Growth in gross domestic product slowed considerably in the third quarter of 2000 to the lowest rate since a contraction in the first quarter of 1991

Couple that in with 9/11, the worst hurricane in the US History, two wars…..ALL in ALL I think we had a tremendous economy….the Bush Tax Cuts deserves much of the credit. Bush has had very little to do with today’s problems, other than he allowed the democrat controlled congress to spend WAY too much and did not use the power of veto as he should have.


tsadjatko profile image

tsadjatko 4 years ago from maybe (the guy or girl) next door

I'm not sure Chris if your "I have NO arguments ..."comment was directed at me or not but I will say I'm not an economist and I don't play one on HP.


CMerritt profile image

CMerritt 4 years ago from Pendleton, Indiana Author

tsadjatko,

I think what you said earlier was spot one, and I appreciate your comments and for stopping by to read my hub.

Chris


AlexDrinkH2O profile image

AlexDrinkH2O 4 years ago from Southern New England, USA

Great hub. I can only hope the American people can see through the arrogant, self-righteous egomaniac we have as a president right now and send him packing in November (the cover of this week's Newsweek is about right).


WillStarr profile image

WillStarr 4 years ago from Phoenix, Arizona

"YOU said “Remember he was left with a strong economy” referring to Bush…..Have you conveniently forgotten the “Dot Com Bubble” bursting in 2000? It flat-lined the stock market!"

They also forget the aftermath of 9-11, brought to us by terrorists who trained in the US right under Clinton's nose!

But somehow, the only one ever blamed is Bush. Clinton gets a pass!


CMerritt profile image

CMerritt 4 years ago from Pendleton, Indiana Author

Hi Alex!!

I saw that Newsweek cover! Kind of funny coming from one their own media.

I hope and pray that the people who understand what is at stake, DO come out and vote for Romney.

Great to see ya,

Chris


CMerritt profile image

CMerritt 4 years ago from Pendleton, Indiana Author

Will, and to add to it, it was Clinton and his gang who said that beyond a shadow of doubt, that Iraq HAD WMD's and Sadaam WAS a threat.

Then, they all bailed and started pointing fingers.

why is it, that the liberals refuse to see and accept things as they honestly are?


tsadjatko profile image

tsadjatko 4 years ago from maybe (the guy or girl) next door

Because liberalism is a religion (cult might be a better word) They live by the code:

L ies

I nnuendo

B elittle

E vade

R aise a straw man

A ssert superiority

L ie some more

....And if you are Nancy Pelosi add an S for

S ee dead people http://dailycaller.com/2012/08/09/nancy-pelosi-see...


WillStarr profile image

WillStarr 4 years ago from Phoenix, Arizona

"Will, and to add to it, it was Clinton and his gang who said that beyond a shadow of doubt, that Iraq HAD WMD's and Sadaam WAS a threat."

And here it is:

http://www.cnn.com/US/9812/16/clinton.iraq.speech/


CMerritt profile image

CMerritt 4 years ago from Pendleton, Indiana Author

Will,

Here is another great site pertaining how Bush "lied" about WMD's and the Clinton gang making thier claims.

http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/b/bushlied.ht...


ib radmasters profile image

ib radmasters 4 years ago from Southern California

Josak

So while you say that economists like yourself were circling the economic wagons, the wagon train got slaughered.

Economists are like political parties, they can't agree on the economy or what to do about it. Economics is not a science, it is a world of statics, and theory. Statistics don't tell the truth, they tell whatever story that the creator of the statistical representation wants it to tell.

An example of statistics used to encourage the viewer to go with a product.

4 out of 5 doctors recommend brand X.

This is a vague, and ambiguous statement.

The reason I say that is because it is a conclusion, and it has no depth to it. There are a lot more reasons but this is a comment and not a hub.

The end result was that no one stopped the economic collapse, and it came as a complete surprise to congress and President Bush. Everyone was apparently too busy campaigning to notice.

Just like they are doing this year, and the economy is still down.

Actions speak while rhetoric sleeps.

zzzzzzzzzzzz


50 Caliber profile image

50 Caliber 4 years ago from Arizona

Seals Reveal Truth About Bin Laden Raid

Osama Bin Laden was killed within 90 seconds of the US Navy Seals landing in his compound and not after a protracted gun battle, according to the first account by the men who carried out the raid.

The operation was so clinical that only 12 bullets were fired.

The Seals have spoken out because they were angered at the version given by politicians, which they see as portraying them as cold-blooded murderers on a kill mission. They were also shocked that President Barack 0bama announced Bin Laden’s death on television the same evening, rendering useless much of the intelligence they had seized.

Chuck Pfarrer, a former commander of Seal Team 6, which conducted the operation, has interviewed many of those who took part for a book, Seal Target Geronimo, to be published in the US this week.

The Seals own accounts differ from the White House version, which gave the impression that Bin Laden was killed at the end of the operation rather than in its opening seconds. Pfarrer insists Bin Laden would have been captured had he surrendered.

There isn’t a politician in the world who could resist trying to take credit for getting Bin Laden but it devalued the intelligence and gave time for every other Al-Qaeda leader to scurry to another bolthole, said Pfarrer. The men who did this and their valorous act deserve better.

It’s a pretty shabby way to treat these guys. The first hint of the mission came in January last year when the team’s commanding officer was called to a meeting at the headquarters of joint special operations command. The meeting was held in a soundproof bunker three stories below ground with his boss, Admiral William McRaven, and a CIA officer.

They told him a walled compound in Pakistan had been under surveillance for a couple of weeks. They were certain a high-value individual was inside and needed a plan to present to the president. It had to be someone important. So is this Bert or Ernie? he asked.

The Seals nicknames for Bin Laden and his deputy Ayman al-Zawahiri are a reference to two Muppets in Sesame Street, one tall and thin and the other short and fat. We have a voice print, said the CIA officer, and were 60% or 70% certain it’s our guy. McRaven added that a reconnaissance satellite had measured the targets shadow. Over 6ft tall.

When McRaven added they would use Ghost Hawk helicopters, the team leader had no doubt. These are the most classified, sophisticated stealth helicopters ever developed, said Pfarrer. They are kept in locked hangars and fly so quiet we call it whisper mode.

Over the next couple of months a plan was hatched. A mock-up of the compound was built at Tall Pines, an army facility in a national forest somewhere in the eastern US.

Four reconnaissance satellites were placed in orbit over the compound, sending back video and communications intercepts. A tall figure seen walking up and down was named the Pacer.

Obama gave the go-ahead and Seal Team 6, known as the Jedi, was deployed to Afghanistan. The White House cancelled plans to provide air cover using jet fighters, fearing this might endanger relations with Pakistan.

Sending in the Ghost Hawks without air cover was considered too risky so the Seals had to use older Stealth Hawks. A Prowler electronic warfare aircraft from the carrier USS Carl Vinson was used to jam Pakistan’s radar and create decoy targets.

Operation Neptune’s Spear was initially planned for April 30 but bad weather delayed it until May 1, a moonless night. The commandos flew on two Stealth Hawks, codenamed Razor 1 and 2, followed by two Chinooks five minutes behind, known as Command Bird and the gun platform. On board, each Seal was clad in body amour and night vision goggles and equipped with laser targets, radios and sawn-off M4 rifles. They were expecting up to 30 people in the main house, including Bin Laden and three of his wives, two sons, Khalid and Hamza, his courier, Abu Ahmed al- Kuwaiti, four bodyguards and a number of children. At 56 minutes past midnight the compound came into sight and the code Palm Beach signaled three minutes to landing. Razor 1 hovered above the main house, a three-story building where Bin Laden lived on the top floor. Twelve Seals roped the 5ft-6ft down onto the roof and then jumped to a third-floor patio, where they kicked in the windows and entered.

The first person the Seals encountered was a terrified woman, Bin Laden’s third wife, Khaira, who ran into the hall. Blinded by a searing white strobe light they shone at her, she stumbled back. A Seal grabbed her by the arm and threw her to the floor. Bin Laden’s bedroom was along a short hall. The door opened; he popped out and then slammed the door shut. Geronimo, Geronimo, Geronimo, radioed one Seal, meaning eyes on target.

At the same time lights came on from the floor below and Bin Laden’s son Khalid came running up the stairs towards the Seals. He was shot dead.

Two Seals kicked in Bin Laden’s door. The room, they later recalled, smelt like old clothing, like a guest bedroom in a grandmother’s house. Inside was the Al-Qaeda leader and his youngest wife, Amal, who was screaming as he pushed her in front of him. No, no, don’t do this! she shouted as her husband reached across the king-size bed for his AK-47 assault rifle. The Seals reacted instantly, firing in the same second. One round thudded into the mattress. The other, aimed at Bin Laden’s head, grazed Amal in the calf. As his hand reached for the gun, they each fired again: one shot hit his breastbone, the other his skull, killing him instantly and blowing out the back of his head.

Meanwhile Razor 2 was heading for the guesthouse, a low, shoebox-like building, where Bin Laden’s courier, Kuwaiti, and his brother lived. As the helicopter neared, a door opened and two figures appeared, one waving an AK-47. This was Kuwaiti. In the moonless night he could see nothing and lifted his rifle, spraying bullets wildly.

He did not see the Stealth Hawk. On board someone shouted, Bust him!, and a sniper fired two shots. Kuwaiti was killed, as was the person behind him, who turned out to be his wife. Also on board were a CIA agent, a Pakistani-American who would act as interpreter, and a sniffer dog called Karo, wearing dog body armor and goggles.

Within two minutes the Seals from Razor 2 had cleared the guesthouse and removed the women and children.

They then ran to the main house and entered from the ground floor, checking the rooms. One of Bin Laden’s bodyguards was waiting with his AK-47. The Seals shot him twice and he toppled over.

Five minutes into the operation the command Chinook landed outside the compound, disgorging the commanding officer and more men. They blasted through the compound wall and rushed in.

The commander made his way to the third floor, where Bin Laden’s body lay on the floor face up. Photographs were taken, and the commander called on his satellite phone to headquarters with the words: Geronimo Echo KIA Bin Laden enemy killed in action.

This was the first time the White House knew he was dead and it was probably 20 minutes into the raid, said Pfarrer. A sample of Bin Laden’s DNA was taken and the body was bagged. They kept his rifle. It is now mounted on the wall of their team room at their headquarters in Virginia Beach, Virginia, alongside photographs of a dozen colleagues killed in action in the past 20 years.

At this point things started to go wrong. Razor 1 took off but the top secret green unit that controls the electronics failed. The aircraft went into a spin and crashed tail-first into the compound… The Seals were alarmed, thinking it had been shot down, and several rushed to the wreckage. The crew climbed out, shaken but unharmed.

The commanding officer ordered them to destroy Razor 2, to remove the green unit, and to smash the avionics. They then laid explosive charges.


50 Caliber profile image

50 Caliber 4 years ago from Arizona

They loaded Bin Laden’s body onto the Chinook along with the cache of intelligence in plastic bin bags and headed toward the USS Carl Vinson. As they flew off they blew up Razor 2. The whole operation had taken 38 minutes.

The following morning White House officials announced that the helicopter had crashed as it arrived, forcing the Seals to abandon plans to enter from the roof. A photograph of the situation room showed a shocked Hillary Clinton, thsecretary of state, with her hand to her mouth.

Why did they get it so wrong? What they were watching was live video but it was shot from 20,000 feet by a drone circling overhead and relayed in real time to the White House and Leon Panetta, the CIA director, in Langley.

The Seals were not wearing helmet cameras, and those watching in Washington had no idea what was happening inside the buildings.They don’t understand our terminology, so when someone said the insertion helicopter has crashed, they assumed it meant on entry, said Pfarrer.

What infuriated the Seals, according to Pfarrer, was the description of the raid as a kill mission. I’ve been a Seal for 30 years and I never heard the words kill mission, he said.

It’s a Beltway [Washington insiders] fantasy world. If it was a kill mission you don’t need Seal Team 6; you need a box of grenades. ooah!

As Paul Harvey would say: You now know the rest of the story!


tsadjatko profile image

tsadjatko 4 years ago from maybe (the guy or girl) next door

@ IB, Gee, I don't know of any economists who are uninformed. They all make "informed assumptions". LIKE THE PRESIDENTS ECONOMISTS WHO SAID PASS THE STIMULUS AND UNEMPLOYMENT WILL BE DOWN TO 6% AND NEVER GO ABOVE 8 - I'm sure they were not uninformed - just totally wrong, that's all.


WillStarr profile image

WillStarr 4 years ago from Phoenix, Arizona

"The end result was that no one stopped the economic collapse, and it came as a complete surprise to congress and President Bush"

While the enormity of the collapse took everybody by surprise, Bush and the Republicans were warning of it well in advance. The Democrats mocked them for it! :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQXbT5ZMYaY


WillStarr profile image

WillStarr 4 years ago from Phoenix, Arizona

BTW, the moron who revealed that it was Seal Team Six despite all the warnings not to, was none other than Joe 'I'm just a heartbeat away from being President" Biden.

Comforting thought.


50 Caliber profile image

50 Caliber 4 years ago from Arizona

Chris, I truly doubt anyone other than the folks who got the huge checks for bonuses out of the Stimulus pay outs are better off.

I live about the same but due to cutting trips to town and adventures are by raw hose power and the Jeep stays home unless I need to restock certain things I cannot make here at home. I have to buy sugar and whole wheat to grind for flour to make bread, Gasoline, any way your a smart man and you know the drill, self sufficient only goes so far.

I got an estate that increased my trust fund and my monthly payouts and I also got old enough to start getting paid back the money that as an employer I paid both halves, but employees do too. Their wages could be higher per month if the money for the payments to Social Security wasn't considered a cost of employment, lowering their hourly or salary pay.

I guess now I'm a person taking advantage of the system riding as am entitlement person, that is the class war that Barry Sotoros is selling the nation.

I'm nervous seeing the number of folks who intend on ramming the Ice-burg twice in the new Titanic states of America.

People don't seem to understand the implications of "Martial Law" or the signing of the "UN-small arms treaty" disarming the responsible American while the felons and murderers will get them at will because they are not afraid of jail.

They don't get waking up to see the arm band marked UN as legal soldiers used against us, they don't realize what played out during Katrina when cross trained Police and Military as well as "High-Risk Civilian Contractors" aka Mercenaries were turned loose in the after math of the storm.

4 years ago I didn't worry about "cattle cars" rounding up civilians. Ask any Marine who booted in Parris Island about 18 wheeler cattle cars packed standing room only to move recruits around the Island a pole here and there to grab on to to keep up right grabbing the man holding the pole and a few trips round the route you couldn't see, a warning of ways people will be moved in the future, reminiscent of rail cars in the UK and Germany as they hauled off people to retraining camps and easy bake ovens for those who are too old to labor for the new masters of the country.

People still laugh at a chunk of land bought from the Indians for beads and trinkets, while setting back and seeing the whole country traded for a signature on a document that we have not been invited to see.

No, I'm not better off at all,

great hub and disturbing to think about the results of 4 more years of the same,

Peace,

dusty

@Will Starr your right on target with your statements, I just pray the 6th of November isn't our last election.


Chris Dane profile image

Chris Dane 4 years ago from Maryland, USA

Wow, I guess what they say about people from Arizona is true: they hate swiss cheese but love crackers and nuts.


WillStarr profile image

WillStarr 4 years ago from Phoenix, Arizona

Google:

No results found for arizona "they hate swiss cheese but love crackers and nuts.".

Hmm. Guess he just made it up. What a knee-slapper.


50 Caliber profile image

50 Caliber 4 years ago from Arizona

I reckon the "cracker" thing is a racial slur by the kind of nut Arizona hates I heard it was just an empty sack from the five and dime, but not sure I do like Swiss cheese and a 20 pound wheel up at White River Indian Reservation get eaten right fast when I order on from a cheese maker up Wisconsin way. He must have snuck a peek at Barry's reasons to Hate a state column for his pre written statement list approved by his wife.

Just like Clinton?


WillStarr profile image

WillStarr 4 years ago from Phoenix, Arizona

LOL @ Dusty!


tirelesstraveler profile image

tirelesstraveler 4 years ago from California

If I didn't have an appointment in 25 minutes I would have joined your rant. I can still remember standing(CA) in line voting when the news announce Reagan had won by a landslide. I was a college student. Every year he was in office while the income wasn't much it was enough. When graduation day came there was a job. Now I have 3 sons ,two in college, the vet can't get his GI bill because of a glitch. The oldest lost his job last October. The college bills are higher every year. Yikes!

Please spell the tea party T.E.A. Most people don't know that it stands for Taxed Enough Already.


Josak profile image

Josak 4 years ago from variable

I would just like to add some more of that evil liberal logic with some facts here (I am not a liberal but whatever).

There is a lot of nonsense on here about the debt let me set it straight.

Obama has reduced spending! (I know right)

From a purely factual basis Obama's spending is lower than Bush's and he has reduced it significantly. Obama's 2010 budget cut spending 1.8%, 2011 increased it 4.3% and 2012 will increase it 0.7% 2013 will reduce it 1.3% (already budgeted) add 1.5% inflation yearly and we get 4.3+0.7= 5. 5- 1.8-1.3-1.5X3= -2.6% on spending from Obama budgets. So who is surprised by the facts?

http://www.forbes.com/sites/rickungar/2012/05/24/w...

as for whoever said he has spent more than all other presidents combined... check your facts, it's embarrassing.


samsons1 profile image

samsons1 4 years ago from Tennessee

WOW! Chris!!! You & Will Starr's really got um going. Tremendous hub and thank you for having the guts to say what you did. Some people just love to 'duck' under excuses and blames because that's what they've learned from their 'mentor' in Washington, messing the true picture. America is in bad shape indeed and I'm not sure she will come out of this without 'divine intervention' from above. (Better get that out while I still can before the 'liberals' stop all and any reference to God and/or religion - what this country was actually built on.) I think by the next election cycle in 2016m we'll be able to do away with the Dem & Repub labels and be known as the 'Believers' vs the "Non-Believers'.

Your rant is good and bless you for it. Voted up, useful, beautiful, interesting and shared.


tsadjatko profile image

tsadjatko 4 years ago from maybe (the guy or girl) next door


WillStarr profile image

WillStarr 4 years ago from Phoenix, Arizona

Josak's 'source':

Rick Ungar, Contributor, Writing from the left on politics and policy.

From the left! (sigh!)

The left's justification for that is an accounting trick in which they aren't looking at how much Obama is actually spending, but at the rate of increase, which can be manipulated to come out smelling like roses.

Obama spent a trillion on just one item...the failed stimulus!

Here's a reliable source:

http://blog.heritage.org/2012/05/25/morning-bell-b...


tsadjatko profile image

tsadjatko 4 years ago from maybe (the guy or girl) next door

Ok, Lets look at the "code"

L ie - check

I nnuendo

B elittle - check

E vade

R aise a straw man - check

A ssert superiority - check

L ie some more

3 more to go! :-) did I miss anything? (I will be accused of being uninformed before making these assumptions).


Chris Dane profile image

Chris Dane 4 years ago from Maryland, USA

Yay Mneumonics!

C an

O nly

N ormally

S teal

E lections

R egarding

V ery

A dverse

T urnout

I f

V oters

E vade

S eriousness


tsadjatko profile image

tsadjatko 4 years ago from maybe (the guy or girl) next door

You are seriously uniformed (and just lame)


Chris Dane profile image

Chris Dane 4 years ago from Maryland, USA

I'm just messing with you guys. These rant pages are too fun.


WillStarr profile image

WillStarr 4 years ago from Phoenix, Arizona

And there's the typical liberal condescension.


tsadjatko profile image

tsadjatko 4 years ago from maybe (the guy or girl) next door

actually Will, I neglected to check

I nnuendo - check

after the steal election Mneumonic

lol


Chris Dane profile image

Chris Dane 4 years ago from Maryland, USA

Oh, c'mon, WillStarr! I just love tweaking your mustache. Look, you guys wonder why I can't be a conservative anymore? It's because the GOP used to be intellectual, fiscal and fact based. Now, you're going to lose the Senate A SECOND TIME because of another Tea Party yahoo. I guess I'm what you'd call a RINO, except I just dropped the pretense and am sticking to the Dems these days. At least they accept my conservatism, where your party no longer accepts thinkers, just ditto heads. A small tent holds few braves.


WillStarr profile image

WillStarr 4 years ago from Phoenix, Arizona

"Look, you guys wonder why I can't be a conservative anymore? It's because the GOP used to be intellectual, fiscal and fact based."

See?

That's his way of pointing out that he views himself as a lofty 'intellectual' liberal.

Typical liberal, and I don't believe for a moment that he was ever a conservative. Most young college people take years to shake off the liberal indoctrination they went through, and come to their senses.

He obviously is not there yet.

Not even close.


Chris Dane profile image

Chris Dane 4 years ago from Maryland, USA

No, I have a photo of George H.W. Bush personally autographed. It hung on my wall growing up. I like what Jeb Bush said, about how he may not be a conservative anymore and how his dad, hell, even Reagan, probably wouldn't be elected in this environment. You always throw out that liberal intellectual canard to make yourself feel better without admitting that there's a serious problem. The brain drain is real. But you call me a typical liberal and wonder why we can't stand under the same tent?


WillStarr profile image

WillStarr 4 years ago from Phoenix, Arizona

Every liberal who claims to have 'once been a conservative' writes essentially the same excuse, and I never believed them either.

George H.W. Bush and Obama are polar opposites, so anyone who claims to have supported both is either clueless or a liar.


Chris Dane profile image

Chris Dane 4 years ago from Maryland, USA

Take Todd Akin, this total scum bag moron says the dumbest thing possible and puts the whole Senate race into danger. He and his ilk contort reality into this crazy land where a woman being raped is somehow complicit or responsible. And it's not just Akin, but Santorum, and Ryan have made statements in the past, too, though not as disastrously.

But what if I told you that I have a plan to cut abortion rates by 60-70% over a ten year period without touching Roe V. Wade? But I get uncomfortable when hot headed morons take the low road and because they're too dumb and lack the creativity to include both sides in the solution, they create some ridiculous scenario under which only their side is true, because they can't even entertain the other sides notions or concerns.

That's what's lacking. Conservative leadership that says, hey, we're pro-life, but there are legitimate concerns and outlawing abortion outright isn't going to solve those. How do we come together to start decreasing abortions NOW without touching Roe v Wade? No, all we get is demagoguery to whip us into a frenzy and pull the lever.

This is just an example, but it's why the GOP has brain drain. It's done this narrow minded divide and conquer tactic for over a decade, and now you're all pissed because Obama figured out how to use it and his side outnumbers your side. This was bound to happen. The GOP has to expand the size of its tent if its ever to reclaim the high ground. I'm still waiting...


jbyers profile image

jbyers 4 years ago from Wapwallopen, PA

It's more like imagine where we would be right now if Obama didn't win. McCain was better in 2000 than he was in 2008. And with a loose cannon like Palin as VP, we would definitely be worse off. But you can blame Bush for that because if he didn't tarnish the Republican Party, maybe people would have voted differently. Obama has not had a stellar presidency, but remember - Roosevelt didn't fix the economy as soon as he took office either.


tsadjatko profile image

tsadjatko 4 years ago from maybe (the guy or girl) next door

Roosevelt did many things (like Obama) that prolonged the depression and both men, if they weren't liberals and applied conservative principles would have turned things around more quickly. But I love how elitists have this crystal ball that tells them what would have happened if Palin or Mc Cain were elected - total BS only an elitist would spew.

And like both parties don't have their "AKINS" but the Republicans are the only party that disavows these quacks when they reveal themselves...gimme a break


BLACKANDGOLDJACK profile image

BLACKANDGOLDJACK 4 years ago from Blitzburgh area

Hey Chris Dane, so I see you spent some time in Pittsburgh so you can't be all bad. Unless you're a Ravens fan now. Why, you've probably been to "The Pete" on occasion, right?

Now, what about this plan to cut abortion rates by 60-70% over a 10-year period without touching Roe v. Wade?


Chris Dane profile image

Chris Dane 4 years ago from Maryland, USA

Go Stillers!!! As for my plan, why, I think I might just write a hub, as it is long. In sum, it takes into account pluralities within annual abortion rates and the feminization of poverty indicators for different nations to set parameters for targeted social policy to diminish abortions within each set of percentages. Key efficiencies will be established to ensure we are facilitating a society that rewards motherhood, hard work, and creates a path forward rather than setting up one of personal irresponsibility and total dependence. But, even if my plan is a failure and only delivers a much reduced percentage of declining abortion rates, it will be wholly more successful than all pro-life measures over the past thirty years combined. I will dig it out and put it in a hub soon.


Josak profile image

Josak 4 years ago from variable

I love how I post a Forbes link and everyone dismisses it and replies with blogs :P but you can check the congress budgets yourself, the facts posted are public record and it's as simple as Obama has reduced spending from when Bush was president, since apparently Forbes isn't good enough for you here is a marketwatch link (as in the wall street journal) it doesn't get any more reliable in economic terms.

http://articles.marketwatch.com/2012-05-22/comment...

As for the intellectual liberal "insult" oh hell yes, I went to college and I read, I guess that makes me wrong right? What you refer to as lefty indoctrination is what reasonable people call an education and yes if I remember correctly twice as many liberals have a college education, makes you wonder why all the educated people are on one side huh?

As for people like Chris Dane I feel real sympathy for moderate conservatives, you poor guys have nowhere to run since the GOP went mad, hopefully it will recover some sanity.


BLACKANDGOLDJACK profile image

BLACKANDGOLDJACK 4 years ago from Blitzburgh area

That sounds real interesting, Chris Dane. I'm looking forward to reading it.

I take it, then, you may not agree with the statement "From an economic perspective funded abortion is a good thing" that Josak made yesterday in a comment on this hub?


tsadjatko profile image

tsadjatko 4 years ago from maybe (the guy or girl) next door

Josak, so the budget the democrat controlled congress passed for 2009 is Bush's fault? and the fact that Obama has done nothing to decrease the deficit during his 4 years when he promised to cut it in half and had full control of congress for two years means our fiscal crisis is Bush's fault - WOW talk about uninformed! Or maybe a better word is blind. and this chart is a lie? http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/wp-content/uploads...

Of course I'm not an economist and I don't play one on HP, so excuuuuse me.


teamrn profile image

teamrn 4 years ago from Chicago

Finishing your rant, so aptly named, ARE YOU BETTER OFF THAN YOU WERE 4 YEARS AGO?

I have to echo finishing your rant, a resounding, NO! Yaw, my husband while he WAS working, did recieve a tax increase of $26 month, since expired. The salient point is that his raise/tax was useless and paid no bills .and did littler nothing.

Why, he wasn't in a public sector union. He's no longer unemployed, in fact employed by a small business. The owner was incredulous that it WASN'T his sweat and blood that grew his business;

Unemployment numbers are much higher than they were 4 years ago, especially high school graduates. Unemployment for urban blacks is in the double digits.

Better off than I was 4 years ago? I was covered, for health care insurance like a good numbcr of other folks; even those who have pre-esisting conditons. My salary from the government (this supposed large, benefactor) was frozen twice.

Many say hat at least I had insurance, "why, what about the mother of 5, single, no insurance, who was just diagnosed with breast cancer? Don't you want her to have the same insurance benefit that you do?

Of course I do! What kind of monster do you think I am? We have a problem and that is that (and this analogy might be old to some), the health care pie is only so big. Treating more people (increasing the coverers) means that the pieces of the pie can only get smaller (fewer benefits), until we reach the point of a critical mass; BUT THEN WE MAKE UP FOR IT by baking another pie (raising taxes)

For a while, the second pie factor is enough, but eventually, it's slices get too small and the only way we have of continuing to feed the many is to give out smaller and smaller slices, with a new twist-rationing.

Health care is a problem. too big a problem to find a solution by any means other than BIPARTISAN, asking-the-American-people for their input. Not the AMA. ANA, AARP, and many other organizations which ALREAY have bias.

Am I better off 4 years ago? Not when I see blatant untruths ( I have a real problem with the word 'lie') put forth by the Chris Matthews team as they so loyally drink the POTUS koolaid. An example might be the charge that Paul Ryan put forth a plan that would gut Medicare as we know it.

#1, if something isn't done to MDC, it will go broke,(VBO)

#2 The plan proposed by Paul Ryan does not take penny 1 from the benefits received by existing seniors or those who re 10 years away from revceiving Medicare benefits

#3 The Ryan plan would be to give vouchers to those who are currently under 55 #4 Nothing is ever made of the FACT that President Obama took $716 BILION from Medicare to fund Obamacare. And you thought the words of Mitch McConnell were aggreegious?

Conservatives wage a war on women'; how dare they! The REAL war (on the domestic front) is a war on religion conducted by liberals as they challenge the Catholic Churchs' right to enforce it's principles, it's teachings, it's beliefs.

Better off that I was 4 years ago? Upside down in my mortgage, I'll be driving around in my beat up 1998 wheels, even a used car is too expensive, salaries have taken a 17% dive, my salary frozen.

In light of that, COULD ANYONE BE BETTER OFF THAN THEY WERE 4 YEARS AGO?


Chris Dane profile image

Chris Dane 4 years ago from Maryland, USA

Thank you, Josak, for the support. I consider myself a radical moderate who was drawn in by the Blue dog Democrats, but they got purged from the congress by the Tea Party wave, even if they voted against Obamacare, so I'm feeling a little homeless, but still with the President until the GOP finishes its reformation. I thought it would happen in 2010, then 2012, now I think it might not be until 2020, at this rate. I have little choice to but to vote blue until a viable moderate conservative makes a strong case for reform.


WillStarr profile image

WillStarr 4 years ago from Phoenix, Arizona

"I love how I post a Forbes link and everyone dismisses it..."

That's because it was written by Rick Ungar, an admitted left wing liberal, and not Forbes.

Try again.


teamrn profile image

teamrn 4 years ago from Chicago

That must mean that you feel that Pres. Obama is VIABLE. How?


ib radmasters profile image

ib radmasters 4 years ago from Southern California

50 caliber

After reading your comments here, I have some questions.

1. Don't you think that it is strange that the stealth copter crashed.

2. If the mission was to take Bin Laden alive, wouldn't that have been possible.

----

"No, no, don’t do this! she shouted as her husband reached across the king-size bed for his AK-47 assault rifle."

------

Young Navy Seals versus an old man?

It seems that the mission was never to take him alive. or the mission was for the world to believe that he was dead.

Taking the dead body would have been no different than an unconscious body.

And as you recalled there were no helmet cams.

So how do we really know if OBL is really dead?

Now don't shoot, I'm reloading.


Josak profile image

Josak 4 years ago from variable

Tsadjko: I wasn't talking about the Dem congress I was talking about Obama the 2009 budget was set out in 2008 during the Bush presidency.

I can't help that I am an economist you know? :P

The figures I am using are directly from the congress budget and verified by Forbes and the Wall street Journal.

Willstar: I wasn't referring to his spin on the facts just the actual sourced facts, there is now a wall street journal link and you can simply hunt down the budget for each of those years if you are actually interested in the facts but i doubt you are.


tsadjatko profile image

tsadjatko 4 years ago from maybe (the guy or girl) next door

Josak - "the budget set out in 2008 during the Bush Presidency" was passed by a democrat controlled congress! Do I have to say it again?

Why don't you address the other points brought up - is the chart a lie? Does Obama take credit for breaking promise to cut the deficit? You seem very selective on what you answer leaving out a lot.


jbyers profile image

jbyers 4 years ago from Wapwallopen, PA

tsadjatko - Clinton handed over a flourishing economy and a federal surplus to Bush who pissed it away in the middle east. It's undeniable that W fubar'd our economy on his crusade to finish what his daddy couldn't in Iraq. It took Roosevelt almost 4 terms while fighting a world war to fix the US economy - and America's involvement in WWII was over in 3 years.

Think of your own personal finances: could you afford to keep spending on vehicles, food, clothes, tools, guns, ammunition, computers, medical supplies, employee wages & benefits, transportation, and fuel at 2 houses for 7 years? Eventually you'd run out of money and have to borrow it - maybe from a wealthy asian friend. And when you're in debt you can't pass it off to somebody else and just walk away. That's what W. did and that's why he will go down in history as the worst president this county has had and will ever had.

The first step is acceptance my friend.


Chris Dane profile image

Chris Dane 4 years ago from Maryland, USA

The sad part is this: take all of the criticisms you can heap before President Obama and then compare his policies to Bush and then to Romney/Ryan. The whole thing is a mess, so you'll have to park the sandcrawler while you sort through the trash, but if you bore down into it, Obama is simply the default candidate. He represents more of the people.

If you want conservative leadership, then where is it? A conservative must translate the conservative vision, the ideals, into a workable plan that addresses the contradicting needs of the many. The leader must have this vision and communicate it, and craft policies that encompass workable solutions to build those bridges.

But without that, all you have left is partisan extremes. Even if that's all Obama offers, too, his vision represents more of the people in its policy mechanics by a simple majority, and that is the default in a representative republic. No, Obama is the right guy at the very least because there is no alternative, literally. Romney/Ryan would complete the destruction of not only the Republican party but the country. They aren't conservatives, they're trojan horses. Most of the GOP hates Romney, so how can he lead the country if he can't even lead his own party? And Ryan is a straw man if ever I saw one. His budget was a catastrophic let down for any true fiscal conservative, but the right wing was all like, "See, we can do math!" Gimme a break.

Ever since W. became the GOP nominee, I became deeply divided with the Republican party and that dissonance has only grown. Without true leadership, the party has become nothing but the party of the ultra wealthy, which is why Obama now represents a majority. This is no one's fault but the GOP and its failed policies and bad politics.


Chris Dane profile image

Chris Dane 4 years ago from Maryland, USA

And, for emphasis, Obama may be disagreeable to ya'll, but at least he did something to try to fix the crisis. The GOP congress has passed reams of anti-abortion legislation and Obamacare repeals, but where are the bi-partisan jobs efforts? Obama entered the bi-partisan negotiations and was rebuffed every single time. Now everyone's just waiting until this election is over, but it looks pretty clear nothing will change. What a mess.


tsadjatko profile image

tsadjatko 4 years ago from maybe (the guy or girl) next door

@jbyers. Right, Bush did all that on his own and no democrat supported any of it - y'all have Bush derangement syndrome - I don't think a lot of Bush myself, but Bush is not the problem today or tomorrow - Obama is and if you can't see it I pity you - worse if most people think like y'all do I pity this country and the future our children will inherit.


Chris Dane profile image

Chris Dane 4 years ago from Maryland, USA

No, Bush is running again this year under Romney/Ryan, and it is his disastrous revenue policies at stake this election. Sure, Democrats played a part, but the bulk of Bush's transgressions came under FULL GOP control (unfunded deficit expanding tax cuts, unfunded wars, unfunded ENTITLEMENTS) so excuse me while I ask again, where is the conservative leadership? All we're given as an alternative is a double down on Bush?


WillStarr profile image

WillStarr 4 years ago from Phoenix, Arizona

We've had Obama for four year now, and everything has gotten much worse.

So who do the libs point to?

Bush!

What does that tell you?


jbyers profile image

jbyers 4 years ago from Wapwallopen, PA

tsadjatko: From 2001 - 2007, if Democrats didn't support Bush they were labeled unpatriotic and scolded for not supporting the troops. Plus, the GOP had control of both houses so Dems had no choice but to follow. Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, and their gang of idiots threatened and intimidated people into doing whatever they demanded - otherwise they were called traitors. Remember Valerie Plame?

Most people think like I do because w'all are right. Bush f'd it all up buddy. I mean c'mon, really?! Like I said halfway up this page, Obama's not the best but holy crap, look what he was given. I'm sure you've heard the phrase about not being able to shine feces.

I want the best for this country as I'm sure you do and both party's are at fault. But the Republican's take the lion's share because they have no solutions, only NO!". America has changed since 1957: please pass that along to the Republicans for me.


tirelesstraveler profile image

tirelesstraveler 4 years ago from California

It is interesting that people who know Obama supporters know other Obama supporters and decide that he represents most of the people. I live in that world, but I also walk another line and know people who don't support this current administration. It is interesting how they seem to be coming closer together.


ib radmasters profile image

ib radmasters 4 years ago from Southern California

There are no excuses for Obama, he got the presidency knowing what Bush would leave him.

If he would have told the country the truth, that he couldn't fix the Bush legacy, then he would have lost the election.

So either he lied, didn't have a plan, or was just incompetent.

It didn't help when he spent his first two years with his democratic controlled congress avoiding the economy, and doing the Obamacare.


tsadjatko profile image

tsadjatko 4 years ago from maybe (the guy or girl) next door

It's Bush derangement syndrome - listen to Madeleine Albright: We're Going to Blame Bush Forever - http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedd... - when will they take their own advice from their popular phrase "move-on" Bottom line is they can never address the facts they can only look to blame others for their inabilities.


jbyers profile image

jbyers 4 years ago from Wapwallopen, PA

So then let's stop blaming and get down to business - which Romney is supposedly so good at. What are Romney's ideas to better the economy, his plans for afghanistan, lowering the price of gas, better and affordable education, lowering crime and murder, affordable healthcare, immigration, preserving social security, lowering unemployment, and lowering taxes? Even better, what are your ideas?


BLACKANDGOLDJACK profile image

BLACKANDGOLDJACK 4 years ago from Blitzburgh area

Okay, jbyers, let's take one issue at a time, like Social Security.

Projections are that Social Security will be bankrupt in around 20 years.

What do you suppose the effects of same-sex marriage might be on Social Security?


tsadjatko profile image

tsadjatko 4 years ago from maybe (the guy or girl) next door

JBYERS, BETTER YET SINCE OBAMA IS THE INCUMBENT LETS START WITH HIS SOLUTIONS TO THE PROBLEMS YOU MENTION EH? (AND LEAVE OUT THE OBAMALOGNA)


CMerritt profile image

CMerritt 4 years ago from Pendleton, Indiana Author

First of all, I want to thank everyone who has stopped by, this has really taken off into quite the discussion. Sorry if I have not addressed all of you but I do appreciate it.

This is an important topic, and we need this dialogue.

@ jbyers,

I’m sure Romney and Ryan are going to address all of those topics.

Romney has stated exactly what he is going to do economically:

He wants to cut income tax rates by one-fifth across the board. So the top rate would be reduced from 35 percent to the 28 percent originally established in the Reagan tax reform. The bottom tax rates, paid by working people and the middle class, would be reduced to 8 percent and 12 percent -- even lower than under Reagan.

Completely eliminate federal income taxes on long-term capital gains, dividends, and interest income for workers earning less than $100,000 and married couples earning less than $200,000.

Reduce the federal corporate tax rate from 35 percent to a more internationally competitive 25 percent, close to the global average, which would restore international competitiveness for American business. That rate would be reduced further in conjunction with broader corporate tax reform to close the numerous and extensive loopholes.

Repeal the Alternative Minimum Tax (AMT), which was originally meant to stop the richest from avoiding taxes altogether, but which increasingly applies to millions in the middle class.

Repeal all of the Obamacare taxes.

He has been quite clear….this is a real plan.

What is Obama going to do? Hopefully not more of the same that is keeping us where we are at.


jbyers profile image

jbyers 4 years ago from Wapwallopen, PA

I think what you're hinting at is that gay partners would be able to collect their deceased partner's ss benefits - which would become another strain on the ss system. Yeah, so what? What about the rich senior citizens who don't need their checks, but collect them anyway? I guess they need something to tip the valet. Getting more people employed helps the economy and puts more money in the collective ss bank account. Can we work on those points rather than find lame excuses to oppose gay marriage?


tsadjatko profile image

tsadjatko 4 years ago from maybe (the guy or girl) next door

Hard to have a discussion with some one who insists on putting words in your mouth isn't it Jack - typical liberal tactic.


jbyers profile image

jbyers 4 years ago from Wapwallopen, PA

Well then, tsadjatko, what's you answer to his question?


jbyers profile image

jbyers 4 years ago from Wapwallopen, PA

CMerritt - I appreciate you bringing facts to the discussion, but I wanted tsadjatko to do it rather him than just use rhetoric and lame Romney puns - and without CAPS. He seems like he's a good parrot, but can he make up his own words?


sarmack profile image

sarmack 4 years ago from Washington

It is my Hope that many people read your Hub, Mr Merritt. The picture at the top of the page is worth a thousand words, in itself! You have done a fine job of putting us face2face with the condition of our country. Being on welfare pays someone else's paycheck so those people are going to be fighting for "customers". As a Bellevue, Washington social services related employee put it in 2010, "business is good"!

May God Bless and Protect you and your family.


CMerritt profile image

CMerritt 4 years ago from Pendleton, Indiana Author

jbyers,

but I did bring some facts to MY hub. That YOU asked for.


CMerritt profile image

CMerritt 4 years ago from Pendleton, Indiana Author

sarmack,

Thank you for your kind remarks, and blessing to you.

Chris


jbyers profile image

jbyers 4 years ago from Wapwallopen, PA

CMerritt - I asked tsadjatko to backup his rhetoric, but I guess he can't stand on his own two feet and needs to rely on the help of others - kinda like intellectual welfare. Or maybe he's a troll.


BLACKANDGOLDJACK profile image

BLACKANDGOLDJACK 4 years ago from Blitzburgh area

Yeah, tsadjatko, typical liberal tactic, but the question is who is putting words in his mouth. Why, it’s Obama, the world’s greatest ventriloquist. Fascinating to watch him make his dummies talk.

But he said what I wanted him to say. Specifically, he said “. . . gay partners would be able to collect their deceased partner's ss benefits - which would become another strain on the ss system.”

If Obama has his same-sex way, I don’t think people realize where this is headed. Not just with Social Security, but with private pension plans and the like as well. And it won’t just be same-sex marriages that take place today. Some will say we couldn’t get married legally before today, but we have had a common law marriage for years. Obama will be more than happy to write them a check from our bank account.

So Obama makes another pig fly. Nothing new under the sun.


jbyers profile image

jbyers 4 years ago from Wapwallopen, PA

BLACKANDGOLDJACK - Great way not to address the other points like rich people keeping their ss checks or working on lowering unemployment in order to raise ss revenue.

Typical Republican who has no real solution to a problem, so divert attention to something that is less important and will never be solved. Bringing god into the subject doesn't make you right it shows you can't handle a discussion on your own and need divine intervention in order o prove a point. Lightweight.


CMerritt profile image

CMerritt 4 years ago from Pendleton, Indiana Author

jbyers,

I just gave you REAL solutions to our problems....which is the economy.

What is Obama doing, to help our economy? What is he doing that is going to create jobs? What is his plans to get 46 million OFF of welfare?


jbyers profile image

jbyers 4 years ago from Wapwallopen, PA

It's weird, every time I pose a question to someone you answer for them. They can find some many faults, but cannot find any solutions. A good author sits back and let's the audience discuss his article, not interject when his "side" can't stick up for him.


BLACKANDGOLDJACK profile image

BLACKANDGOLDJACK 4 years ago from Blitzburgh area

So where did I mention God, jbyers?

I have no problem with "rich" people keeping their Social Security checks. Did they "earn" that money?

My problem is with this entitlement mentality where so many have their hands out for some freebies, and Obama keeps giving them some, bought with MY money.


WillStarr profile image

WillStarr 4 years ago from Phoenix, Arizona

"Typical Republican who has no real solution to a problem..."

The problem is the economy and lack of jobs, which is the one thing that Obama does not want to discuss, so his campaign is about Romney's tax returns, and other crap that nobody cares about.

All of Obama's agenda so far has hurt jobs and the economy, from his war on fossil fuels to Obamacare, Dodd/Frank, and the new, onerous EPA regulations.

Obama believes in a government-run economy, while Romney (and all conservatives) believe in the private sector economy which has always fueled American prosperity.

That's the difference.


jbyers profile image

jbyers 4 years ago from Wapwallopen, PA

If a senior is making $500,000 or more yearly from investments, pensions, or other incomes, do they really need the annual $15,000 income from ss checks? Some people or families that earn just above the financial limits for public assistance are turned down for making too much money, but rich seniors get to keep their public assistance? Doesn't seem right.

And I don't like the system being abused either. Good people who have legitimate problems deserve it while others with slight problems - or fake problems - need to work their way through it. There should be a bureau to investigate fraud or employ more agents if such a body already exists. There's a job creator! But then some say it's govt. getting too big. So then the problem doesn't get solved because an agreement cant' be reached.

Until people and Parties work together to solve the ss problem and all the others the US will continue to faulter. Everyone, including ourselves, need to stop blaming, evading, and complaining and just do what's required.

Can you agree to that? If not, then I bid you good day sir.


WillStarr profile image

WillStarr 4 years ago from Phoenix, Arizona

"If a senior is making $500,000 or more yearly from investments, pensions, or other incomes, do they really need the annual $15,000 income from ss checks?"

Wrong question.

If someone paid in all those years and politicians promised them that it would be there for them, who are you to say they don't deserve to get their own money back?


jbyers profile image

jbyers 4 years ago from Wapwallopen, PA

again, defending the rich. not coming up with a solution. the world has changed a lot since 1957. Maybe someday Republicans can join those who live in reality.


WillStarr profile image

WillStarr 4 years ago from Phoenix, Arizona

You avoided the question:

"If someone paid in all those years and politicians promised them that it would be there for them, who are you to say they don't deserve to get their own money back?"

We have all sorts of leeches and parasites sucking our economy dry, like illegals who come here to get free delivery of their babies, establish a US citizen, and get automatic welfare for the next 21 years! Many do it over and over, and each kid is a new parasite on our economy!

(And my wife is a labor and delivery nurse here in Arizona, so I know what I'm talking about!)

Why not worry about that sort of theft, rather than worry about those who earned what they get?


jbyers profile image

jbyers 4 years ago from Wapwallopen, PA

Listen, schmuck. I discussed abuse of the system before you jumped in - if you read it you'd see I agree that a huge abuse problem exists.

But with rich seniors, if they can't sacrifice their puny ss checks for the sake of the country then that will be another contributing factor to the ss system going bust. A real patriot would sacrifice himself for country. I guess the rich seniors are financial domestic terrorists.


WillStarr profile image

WillStarr 4 years ago from Phoenix, Arizona

"Listen, schmuck."

That's as far as I got. When the name-calling starts, I know I've won.

If you want to continue the conversation, an apology is in order.


jbyers profile image

jbyers 4 years ago from Wapwallopen, PA

I discussed abuse of the system before you jumped in - if you read it you'd see I agree that a huge abuse problem exists.

But with rich seniors, if they can't sacrifice their puny ss checks for the sake of the country then that will be another contributing factor to the ss system going bust. A real patriot would sacrifice himself for country. I guess the rich seniors are financial domestic terrorists.

You won nothing. And again, avoided the issue. Retardican.


WillStarr profile image

WillStarr 4 years ago from Phoenix, Arizona

Chris,

As you can see, the left has succumbed to Obama's class warfare, and divisiveness. They have been told to hate the rich, and now they do.

Sorry, but I no more hate the wealthy than I hate any other American, and I'm dismayed at our president for promoting that hatred. He should be ashamed, and so should those who are stupid and greedy enough to fall for it.


BLACKANDGOLDJACK profile image

BLACKANDGOLDJACK 4 years ago from Blitzburgh area

jbyers, your argument is so intellectually dishonest it is truly pathetic.

Did you know that some “rich” people voluntarily part with some of their wealth to promote employment and reduce the tax burden for the rest of us? As in, they might collect the $15,000 in Social Security benefits you refer to, but then they shell out $10 million to benefit you and me and everybody else.

The problem is not the “rich” people. The problem is the people who want to get “rich” at the taxpayer’s expense, at least to the extent that they can eat high off the hog (and not Obamabalogna – the people who foot the bill for the flying pig are force fed that) and buy booze and drugs, again on my dime and maybe yours (although I am beginning to think you are one of the takers and not the givers).


CMerritt profile image

CMerritt 4 years ago from Pendleton, Indiana Author

jbyers,

I will tell you what is weird. When someone tries to tell me if I can discuss something or ask questions to someone on MY OWN HUB.

I have asked YOU one simple question, and you completely decide to "blame" someone else .... there seems to be a pattern with liberals and blaming others.

btw, this is the first question I have answered, you say each time you pose a question, "I" step in.

I have posed a question for you. Are you going to do what you claim tsadjatko did, and not answer?


CMerritt profile image

CMerritt 4 years ago from Pendleton, Indiana Author

Will, never before have I witnessed such an attack at the wealthy. Those who beleive in freedoms and liberties, like you and I, are "protecting" the wealthy because we are not demanding that they give MORE of their money to our government to flush away.

Until our government can try to live within it's means, I am NOT in favor of demanding MORE money to pay for things that we do not need.


teamrn profile image

teamrn 4 years ago from Chicago

" And Ryan is a straw man if ever I saw one. His budget was a catastrophic let down for any true fiscal conservative, but the right wing was all like, "See, we can do math!" Gimme a break."

WHAT ABOUT PAUL RYAN'S BUDGET IS A CATASTROPHE?'


WillStarr profile image

WillStarr 4 years ago from Phoenix, Arizona

"Will, never before have I witnessed such an attack at the wealthy."

What they fail to comprehend is that a flourishing economy is impossible in a nation without wealthy people.

I am just astounded at the sheer stupidity and selfishness of the neo-parasites who think the wealthy should take care of them! When did real Americans start buying into that sort of socialist crap?

Here we have an ignorant young pup actually claiming that he has more right to their wealth than the people who actually earned it!


jbyers profile image

jbyers 4 years ago from Wapwallopen, PA

where's the proof of shelling out $10 million? - highly unlikely. i never saw a dime of it.

again, i stated above there is an abuse problem. why are we still debating that?

again, the rich are defended and the "legitimate" poor disregarded.

fyi - 2 college degrees, worked since I was 16-y-o, and a Freemason.

how about you?


teamrn profile image

teamrn 4 years ago from Chicago

jbyers,

"If a senior is making $500,000 or more yearly from investments, pensions, or other incomes, do they really need the annual $15,000 income from ss checks?"

Who would you propose to MAKE that determination (that they really need that extra $10K? A panel of unelected bureaucrats?


jbyers profile image

jbyers 4 years ago from Wapwallopen, PA

A panel of unelected bureaucrats


WillStarr profile image

WillStarr 4 years ago from Phoenix, Arizona

BTW, the nation just posted another trillion dollar deficit, as Mr. Big Spender asks us for four more (trillion dollar) years.

God help us if he gets four more!


BLACKANDGOLDJACK profile image

BLACKANDGOLDJACK 4 years ago from Blitzburgh area

jbyers, the proof of shelling out $10 million is on Wikipedia, Josak's favorite source. Do you really think I would run my mouth like that without being able to back it up, unlike you? Do you think I asked Chris Dane if he had been to "The Pete" just to make idle conversation?

Yeah, I got more degrees than a thermometer too, since you're playing that game. One is in Economics, so I guess I'm an economist just like Josak, God forbid (oh no, you'll be claiming I've been influenced by divine intervention again by mentioning God, although I didn't mention God the first time you pointed that schtick at me).

So what are these jobs you've had since you were 16? I bet at least one of them had something to do with making Obamabalogna. So what is in that stuff of much merit, anyway? I certainly can't tell. And don't give me your "Don't ask, don't tell" spiel, please.


CMerritt profile image

CMerritt 4 years ago from Pendleton, Indiana Author

Again, I ask ONE question......What is Obama doing, to help our economy? What is he doing that is going to create jobs? What is his plans to get 46 million OFF of welfare?

Okay, that's three questions....

but just answer one of them for starters.


jbyers profile image

jbyers 4 years ago from Wapwallopen, PA

ask your mom, and your gramma - she got s senior citizens discount. that's how i paid my way through college.

Obamabalogna - so lame. can't you guys think of anything better?


teamrn profile image

teamrn 4 years ago from Chicago

senior discount-that's been in effect for much longer than Pres Obama. His first attempt to create jobs, shovel ready, which (smugness added) "weren't as shovel ready as we thought!)


ib radmasters profile image

ib radmasters 4 years ago from Southern California

How can anyone look at the condition of the country today, and think that anyone did a good job.

Speaking of jobs, over the years the US has lost a lot of jobs to other countries. Today, we are a service industry, and what products we develop are built outside the country.

And the jobs that were lost in 2008.....2012 are not the same quality of jobs we see in the unemployment figures, which are still high.

But a job at McDonalds, Walmart, Target, and Home Deport are not the jobs that were lost.

People are still losing their homes to the financial institutions that were bailed out but now refuse to help the people that they stuck with these bad loans.


jbyers profile image

jbyers 4 years ago from Wapwallopen, PA

"the proof of shelling out $10 million is on Wikipedia, Josak's favorite source."

Wikipedia as a source...what year of college are you guys in? Epic Credibility Fail.


CMerritt profile image

CMerritt 4 years ago from Pendleton, Indiana Author

jbyers,

are you ignoring me?


WillStarr profile image

WillStarr 4 years ago from Phoenix, Arizona

"What is Obama doing, to help our economy? What is he doing that is going to create jobs? What is his plans to get 46 million OFF of welfare?"

Obama is a radical who is actively trying to diminish the US standing in the world, so this is working out just the way he wanted.


BLACKANDGOLDJACK profile image

BLACKANDGOLDJACK 4 years ago from Blitzburgh area

Hey jbyers, that's what I tried to tell your buddy, Josak, about Wikipedia.

So tell me where did you get your degrees? It makes a difference in how I determine how much of the $10 million you received.


BLACKANDGOLDJACK profile image

BLACKANDGOLDJACK 4 years ago from Blitzburgh area

Hey jbyers, that's what I tried to tell your buddy, Josak, about Wikipedia.

So tell me where did you get your degrees? It makes a difference in how I determine how much of the $10 million you received.


tsadjatko profile image

tsadjatko 4 years ago from maybe (the guy or girl) next door

Unlike jbyers I have a life besides HP and had to go out but I'm still waiting to hear jbyers tell us Obama's solutions to:

"...better the economy, his plans for afghanistan, lowering the price of gas, better and affordable education, lowering crime and murder, affordable healthcare, immigration, preserving social security, lowering unemployment, and lowering taxes?"


CMerritt profile image

CMerritt 4 years ago from Pendleton, Indiana Author

jbyers,

I only have ONE screen name....you are wrong, 100%.

Go back 3 hours ago, and look...... MY NAME - CMerrritt, aske YOU jbyers....this very question.

No, MY HUB, I will ask any question I choose too.

It appears to me, you just cannot answer the question. You was giving others a hard time for not answering your question.

So will you or won't you answer my question?

What is Obama doing, to help our economy? What is he doing that is going to create jobs? What is his plans to get 46 million OFF of welfare?


tsadjatko profile image

tsadjatko 4 years ago from maybe (the guy or girl) next door

I just love it when liberals try to engage in a debate - they always stick to the code.

Take jbyers for example - When his challenge is turned back on him he evades the subject because he can't control the debate. He sets a challenge to give Romney's solutions and when he gets them from Chris he ignores them and resorts to innuendo - personal attacks on someone who isn't even present to reply. Of course when stumped then comes the name calling - always predictable.

Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience...could never be more true! But we have his number. (btw my caplock sticks sometimes and that is why I cap somethings, if in a hurry I don't bother to fix it. Of course that is really an important thing to bring up in a debate isn't it.)


CMerritt profile image

CMerritt 4 years ago from Pendleton, Indiana Author

jbyers,

Do not engage with improper language or name-calling on my hub or I will delete all of your posts. I apprecaiate you input and dialogue, but lets keep it civil.

Chris


jbyers profile image

jbyers 4 years ago from Wapwallopen, PA

CMeritt: You got it all wrong man. A good author should be able to stand firm on the information he originally provided. If you have to go back and reiterate points and supply forgotten information then you shouldn't be here. I should know, I have a BA in Journalism - you only have a hubpage.

This is a forum for discussion not badgering. You didn't force others to answer my questions so why the Hell should I answer yours. If you want to know it so bad, go find it. Don't rely on me to fill the spaces in your head. (And from my impression of you there are a lot of spaces in your head).

A good author would calm down the crowd when debates get heated. A good author doesn't allow one to be piled on by others. A good author can see both sides of a discussion, not just the right and not just the left.

You have a lot to learn CMerritt. Your writing is subpar - a C+ at best, and your political commentary is not much better - it would be like an A- for George W. Bush.

; P


tsadjatko profile image

tsadjatko 4 years ago from maybe (the guy or girl) next door

I'm going out again so you know I won't be available to comment to liberals 'ti I get back. Save your filth for my return.


WillStarr profile image

WillStarr 4 years ago from Phoenix, Arizona

Chris,

You have 431 followers, while the ineffective guy trying to lecture you has 6.

What does that tell you?

^_^


CMerritt profile image

CMerritt 4 years ago from Pendleton, Indiana Author

First of all, I can careless if you have a BA in Journalism. Your inability to have a real dialogue with grown-ups is visible by anyone who can read.

I will leave this post for all to see, just how "classy" of an individual you really are. You are the epitome of many, many liberals, who do not have the capabilities to defend a given stance without becoming obnoxious and juvenile.

I is rather sad, when you cannot answer a simple question by the host of a particular hub. If you continue to behave in the classless form of engaging, I will delete you.

Your choice.

Chrs


WillStarr profile image

WillStarr 4 years ago from Phoenix, Arizona

You should file a complaint and have him banned from HubPages.


WillStarr profile image

WillStarr 4 years ago from Phoenix, Arizona

BTW, isn't it amazing that a guy with a degree in journalism can't express himself without resorting to profanity?

I doubt his claims.


jbyers profile image

jbyers 4 years ago from Wapwallopen, PA

oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooh

hurt my feeling.

oh i'm crushed

please no!!!!!!!!!!

i'm sooooooooooooooooooooooooo sorry

can you ever find it in dick cheney's mechanical heart to forgive me?


jbyers profile image

jbyers 4 years ago from Wapwallopen, PA

selective deleting

now that's fair and balanced.


WillStarr profile image

WillStarr 4 years ago from Phoenix, Arizona

Why are the toilet-tongued, spoiled brats always liberals?

What does that tell you?


CMerritt profile image

CMerritt 4 years ago from Pendleton, Indiana Author

jbyers,

I'm just deleting posts where you use inappropriate language. That is about as fair and balanced as I can be, other than just deleting you all together.

I find it useful for others to see just how a liberal with BA in Journalism acts.


tsadjatko profile image

tsadjatko 4 years ago from maybe (the guy or girl) next door

I'm not a journalist and I don't play one on HP...but you have just witnessed why journalism in America is dead. This is what colleges have been turning out for years. Gotta go, be back later :-).


Josak profile image

Josak 4 years ago from variable

You guys sure do talk a lot about the economy without any facts huh? let's talk about the economy.

Bush's average GDP growth with housing bubble growth subtracted was about 1% (excluding the crisis if I add the crisis it's a bout 0) despite inheriting the massive collapse handed to him Obama now has the GDP growing at 1.7% and rising.

When Bush finished up Wall street was crashed and burnt and consumer confidence was at a record low, now the market is profitable (profits are actually very high) and consumer confidence is back to baseline.

The Bush presidency over 8 whole years rose unemployment about 4.5% the Obama presidency has turned that massive rise around and has reduced real unemployment abut 0.2%.

Spending is lower now than it was under Bush.

Job creation numbers are about three times higher than they were when Obama took office.

Your wars cost us trillions and trillions in unrecoverable debt. Money spent under Obama is mostly investment capital in the country such as the stimulus, welfare, Obamacare etc. (those programs may not pay themselves back entirely but they will to some extent (for example the 45 000 people who won't die every year because of Obamacare will probably produce taxable income) (from a purely economic perspective because I know you guys don't care about the actual lives or at least not enough to fork out fractionally more tax..)

There is not a single economic statistic in which your last president did better than the current one despite the fact that the current one inherited the massive mes left by Bush but let me guess it wasn't Bush's fault right? it was the crisis? or the Democrat congress? and you accuse Dems of blaming Bush :D


WillStarr profile image

WillStarr 4 years ago from Phoenix, Arizona

"Spending is lower now than it was under Bush."

Uh, huh.

And we just finished the forth straight year of trillion dollar deficits under Obama.

Liberals will say anything, and the truth be damned.


Josak profile image

Josak 4 years ago from variable

Yup and we have had such deficits for years before. I already listed a Wall Street Journal article with the data on spending the facts are there, it's simply the truth as much as you want to stick your head in the sand about it. Here is the link again but I am sure you will ignore it :P

http://articles.marketwatch.com/2012-05-22/comment

it is you ignoring the facts and me posting them.


WillStarr profile image

WillStarr 4 years ago from Phoenix, Arizona

Nobody believes that Obama is not a big spender, so good luck on selling that one!

In any case, the economy sucks, we are $16 trillion in debt, and unemployment is 8.3%, so that is Obama's legacy going into November, and no amount of spin will change it.


Josak profile image

Josak 4 years ago from variable

I love how you accuse others of spin while skirting around the fact that Obama is reducing spending and has dropped unemployment. You don't have any facts, all you have is spin.

As for many people not knowing that Obama is reducing spending that's true many people don't know anything about economics and jut listen to drivel.


tsadjatko profile image

tsadjatko 4 years ago from maybe (the guy or girl) next door

I've also noticed in these discussions liberals are always the first ones to play the "profession" card as if they are superior because of their "profession". Usually conservaTIVES LET THE FACTS SPEAK FOR THEMSELVES (whoops) ... while liberals can't resist asserting their superiority even though there is no way anyone can verify that they are who or what they say they are, therefore it is meaningless to bring up - that is why I coined the phrase "I'm not a (fill in the blank) and I don't play one on HP" (now you know that is code for we got a liberal here!) whenever they assert their profession. But of course they don't care about throwing in irrelevant statements if they think it will sway the argument or intimidate their opposition.


Josak profile image

Josak 4 years ago from variable

The only reason I stated I was an economist is because some guy here who probably half heard a fox newscast once told me I was talking baloney and didn't know the facts.

As for the facts I am listing them all over the comments with reliable links so that stinks of hypocrisy.

It's also worth noting the reason that liberals might be playing the profession card is because they are actually professionals the odds are much higher that thy have a college degree statistically speaking (like double) than a conservative.


WillStarr profile image

WillStarr 4 years ago from Phoenix, Arizona

The left will say anything to protect Obama, but they can't fool anyone with 8.3% unemployment (actual is near 16%!) and a national debt of $16 trillion!

So stop the spin.

BTW, how many economists do you know who can't even spell 'business'?


Josak profile image

Josak 4 years ago from variable

Unemployment (U3) is falling from the high you guys left it at it was once at 10.0 remember? Spending is being reduced. Most of that deficit is not Obama's. Real unemployment (U6) is at about 17.1 which is also falling since Bush.

Mea maxima culpa on the typo how can I ever be forgiven?!


WillStarr profile image

WillStarr 4 years ago from Phoenix, Arizona

Be sure to look and see what sort of radical leftist is lecturing you on economics. This one thinks businesses should have no 'greedy' owners, CEO's, or bosses:

http://hubpages.com/politics/The-real-leeches-are-...

That is far-left kookism@!


WillStarr profile image

WillStarr 4 years ago from Phoenix, Arizona

"Unemployment (U3) is falling from the high you guys left it at it was once at 10.0 remember?"

The unemployment rate when Obama took office was 7.6 %, Mr. Economist, so get your facts straight. It went up from there, despite Obama's promise it would not rise above 8% if Congress passed his trillion dollar stimulus.

Since you did not know any of that, Mr. Economist, why should we believe anything you say?

This is why you should not listen to those who pee on your leg and tell you it's raining! Of course Obama is a big spender, and of course he is destroying the economy!

Liberals will say anything, even if they have to lie about it.


Josak profile image

Josak 4 years ago from variable

I make no bones about being a leftist, if you read the actual hub you would see that the businesses without CEO's supervisors etc. are far out-competing those with the above, better productivity, workplace happiness and profit also their wages are astronomically better since they don't have to pay all the above's wages, just facts as usual.

I should have clarified that statement better, yes unemployment continued to rise after Obama took office but before his policies could take effect he was sworn in at the start of 2009 and it took months to pass the economic measures and unemployment reached it's high in October after which it has been falling, fitting perfectly into the usual economic measure to effect curve if unemployment had started falling as soon as he took office that would actually indicate that the last presidents policies were working but of course they didn't. So yes the high in unemployment was the result of your failed policies.

As for the spending don't take my word for it just read the Wall Street journal article or look for the budgets for each of those years.


wba108@yahoo.com profile image

wba108@yahoo.com 4 years ago from upstate, NY

At best I consider the president a leftist idealog who foolishly believes his own myths. I'll admit I've considered the idea that he may be both a criminal and a traiter to the Constitution! I hope he's merely foolish. It sure looks like he's attempting to divide and conquer the nation through class warfare and legalized theft and its hard to believe he thinks his policies will do the nation a bit of good!


WillStarr profile image

WillStarr 4 years ago from Phoenix, Arizona

Too late. You've already exposed yourself.

You said he inherited 10% unemployment, when it was really only 7.6%, and you said it fell from there, when it actually went up, not down. You also did not know that obama promised it would not rise above 8% if Congress passed his massive stimulus.

In addition, Obama signed the massive stimulus bill into law less than one month after taking office. It did not take the months you claim!

In other words, you, sir, are exposing yourself as a fraud who does not know what the hell he is talking about!


Josak profile image

Josak 4 years ago from variable

I said policies not policy, yes the stimulus bill passed pretty quickly but there were a slew of other measures such as the Worker, Homeownership, and Business Assistance Act of 2009 which actually didn't pass until November and the Helping families act that didn't pass until the end of May (those are just some of the major ones).

As for the 8% thing well obviously he was wrong what's your point that Obama got something wrong? Good work.

it was while Bush's policies were being replaced that the unemployment rate increased then the Obama policies started to take full effect and... look at that it's been falling since.

Are you able to avoid personal attacks or is that too hard for you?


BLACKANDGOLDJACK profile image

BLACKANDGOLDJACK 4 years ago from Blitzburgh area

wba108, I see you have a B.A. in Economics. Hey, so do I. But Josak is THE ECONOMIST on this hub, according to him. Just like jbyers is THE JOURNALIST. Although you couldn't tell by anything they have said other than, for example Josak saying, "As for eating 'Obamaloney' I am an economist . . ." blah blah blah.

But wba108, it doesn't take an "economist" to figure out what you said is spot on, now does it? It just takes somebody who is brighter than a black hole and smarter than a rock with a brain bigger than a pea. It's so easy, even a caveman can do it.


WillStarr profile image

WillStarr 4 years ago from Phoenix, Arizona

"Are you able to avoid personal attacks or is that too hard for you?"

Exposing ignorance and fraud is not personal. It's necessary.

We have all sorts of leftist loons out there claiming that Obama is not a big spender and that he did not run the debt to $16 trillion, when anyone with a lick of sense knows better.

It's not personal, Mr. Economist. It's just the truth. You exposed yourself as a liar and a fraud. That was your choice.


teamrn profile image

teamrn 4 years ago from Chicago

Josak, "So yes the high in unemployment was the result of your failed policies."

Just like the actions of one man cannot bring down a union, you actually believe, you're seriously saying that the banking and housing collapse of ONE MANS' POLICIES? Saint's preserve us. That's a bit too much naiveté for even the leftest of the left or the rightist of the right, to take without a good laugh.

Isn't it more possible that it was the sum total of mega failed policies, including Jimmy Carter's CRA that Bill Clinton only reinforced, Dubya's plans to take Iraq because of misguided intelligence and for YEARS before, presidents had been making decisions that lead to the disastrous fall. I find it somewhat incredulous that you feel the SOLE cause was policies ON THE RIGHT.

I had been thinking that you were pretty intelligent, (too bad he's a leftist) because of intelligence, but there goes that theory, out the window. One man, and one man only caused the depression of 1929?

That's kind of what you were saying. Never could it have been the combination plate.? I'm somewhat speechless and that's incredulous in and of itself!


teamrn profile image

teamrn 4 years ago from Chicago

Will,

"Exposing ignorance and fraud is not personal. It's necessary"

It's necessary, necessary for what?


Skarlet profile image

Skarlet 4 years ago from California

Obama is truly a disaster, and I don't know anyone who is better off than they were four years ago. I know some liberals who voted for Obama because they thought he would end the war as he said he would. Now one of these liberals is losing her son to Iraq, which was her biggest fear a few years ago.

For some reason they are not ranting and raving about how bad the war is anymore.

If people would stop making excuses for this president and start looking at facts we would have a chance.


Pamela Kinnaird W profile image

Pamela Kinnaird W 4 years ago from Maui and Arizona

I enjoyed reading your hub and feeling the passion of your words. I couldn't believe it when I scrolled down and found all these passionate comments. I've been away for a month from the U.S. and pretty much from computer, too, but how could I have forgotten how emotional people get on this subject? Wow, you really brought up a hot topic. Voting up and useful.


tsadjatko profile image

tsadjatko 4 years ago from maybe (the guy or girl) next door

"It's also worth noting the reason that liberals might be playing the profession card is because they are actually professionals the odds are much higher that thy have a college degree statistically speaking (like double) than a conservative."

Really? Well you have successfully demonstrated one thing.

Notice my whole point was that declaring your profession is meaningless when it is not substantiable - in this medium anyone can claim to be anything so it is meaningless even if true but that goes right over the liberal's head as a liberal can only see an opportunity to belittle - elitist is their middle name and the only way to get under their skin is to cling to your rifles and Bible ...or create songs so...

When Mitt Romney and Ryan win the vote ,

Hurrah! Hurrah!

We'll try very hard not to gloat

Hurrah! Hurrah!

The men will cheer and the boys will shout

The ladies they will all turn out

And we'll all shout yeah when Romney and Ryan win.

The old church bell will peal with joy

Hurrah! Hurrah!

We'll have a leader who isn't coy,

Hurrah! Hurrah!

The village lads and lassies say

With roses they will strew the way,

And we'll all shout yeah when when Romney and Ryan win.

Get ready for the Jubilee,

Hurrah! Hurrah!

Real hope and change three times three,

Hurrah! Hurrah!

The laurel wreath is ready now

To place upon their loyal brows

And we'll all shout yeah when Romney and Ryan win.

Let love and friendship on that day,

Hurrah, hurrah!

Their choicest pleasures then display,

Hurrah, hurrah!

And let each one perform some part,

To fill with joy the leader's hearts,

And we'll all shout yeah when Romney and Ryan win

Y'all getting too serious anyway.


Chris Dane profile image

Chris Dane 4 years ago from Maryland, USA

Well, we've all contributed to a vile wasteland of a comments section. I'm just as guilty, I suppose, but I now think the photo of a stainless Obama standing amidst rubble and ruin is apropos. We're all arguing in the mud while he just stands there, coasting to four more years. Since my arguments failed to convince anyone of the failure of the GOP and its culpability in the matter, I'm going to bow out now. You can't rebuild with rubble in the way and mortars flying, and the GOP will remain a ruin as long as its last soldiers, huddled in the trenches, keep trying to re-enact the Alamo and the American Revolution, rather than the Constitutional Congress and all those other precious moments when we came together as a nation to actually get something accomplished. The ignorance perpetuated just to feel righteous will be cold comfort in November.


tsadjatko profile image

tsadjatko 4 years ago from maybe (the guy or girl) next door

Bye, Bye (smile your on candid camera)


The Suburban Poet profile image

The Suburban Poet 4 years ago from Austin, Texas

Yes but it has nothing to do with Obama...


tsadjatko profile image

tsadjatko 4 years ago from maybe (the guy or girl) next door

Neither do I :-)


jbyers profile image

jbyers 4 years ago from Wapwallopen, PA

Josak - Yes, they are unable to avoid personal attacks. You can try to have a polite intelligent debate with these people, but all they revert back to is name calling and Obama this and Obama that, liberal this and liberal that. Oh and the fantastically humorous Obamaloni thing. Wow, Romney really struck gold with that one.

I wasted my afternoon trying to discuss issues with these people but it's futile because they're one sided and refuse to at least peek at the other side of the topic. I agreed with them on one or two points, but they refused consider anything else. The customary "NO!" And then the author stepped in when the commenters couldn't hold their own.

Their responses others' comments had no logical counterpoints or better ways of doing things. "It's bad. It's wrong. He's destroying America." I'm surprised no one mentioned that Obama's trying to take our guns, he's a muslim, the fake birth certificate, or the ever-popular "socialist" - which is funny because most people who use that term don't even know what it means. What are churches? What are schools? What are labor unions? What is the military? What are sports teams? They are all socialistic in one or more ways.

Yes, I have a BA in Journalism and an Associates in Political Science. I have worked for several newspapers since my career started when I was 19 and wrote a book on WWII. All these guys can do is spray paint graffiti on a hubpage. This is what their lives have amounted to and this is the best that they can do or will ever do.

Yeah, I used a few "inappropriate language". So what, I was bored. Commenters did nothing but name call - and the author did not step in to preserve the civility because he agreed with it. This page and its commenters - with a few exceptions - are no better than FOX and Friends where anything goes and they salivate as they blatantly disregard real facts for fiction.

And I only have 6 followers because I started my hub 2 weeks ago. How many people had dozens of followers after only 2 weeks? Your mom and wife don't count.


wba108@yahoo.com profile image

wba108@yahoo.com 4 years ago from upstate, NY

BLACKANDGOLDJACK- Your comments are spot on, it doesn't take a genius or an economist to point out the obvious- that we can't tolerate 4 more years of Obama!


RNMSN profile image

RNMSN 4 years ago from Tucson, Az

oh my word all the comments in 2 days!

this alone says what all of Americans agree on...we are fed up! makes me wish we could just erase it all and start over


teamrn profile image

teamrn 4 years ago from Chicago

Chris Danes, what is this vaste wasteland of comments that you speak of? It seems like, with a few exclusions, people bringing up valid points and discussing them. Wasteland?


teamrn profile image

teamrn 4 years ago from Chicago

jbyers, do we have quite a high opinion or ourselves or what? OR IS IT A LOW OPINION OF OTHERS WHO HAVE AN OPINION DIFFERENT THAN OURS!


jbyers profile image

jbyers 4 years ago from Wapwallopen, PA

Josak: Yes they are unable to avoid personal attacks. That's all they can do - their minds can't formulate original independent thoughts. They revert to name calling because they have no other way to debate issues.

I tried to have a polite intelligent discussion with them. I even agreed with them on one or two things, but they are one sided and refuse to even peek at the other side of a subject. The customary "NO!" is all they can come up with. Along with liberal this, liberal that. Obama did this, Obama did that. And the fantastically humorous Obamaloni - Romney really struck gold with that one.

I was actually surprised that they didn't mention that he is a muslim, the birth certificate thing, or the ever-popular "socialist" - which is funny because most people who use that term don't even know what it means. Churches, schools, labor unions, the military, sports teams: they are all socialistic in one way or another. So in a sense, we're all socialists already - hope I didn't scare you Joe the Plumber.

Yeah, I used "inappropriate language". So what, I was bored. The author deleted my comments to preserve civility but did nothing to stop others from name calling or personally attacking me because he agreed with their slanted views. Hubs are a forum for discussion not badgering. The only time the author jumped in was when the other commenters couldn't answer my questions or I called them out for avoiding answering my questions.

Yeah, I have a BA in Journalism and an Associates in Political Science. I've worked for several newspapers during my career which started when I was 19 and I've written a book about WWII. All they can do is spray paint graffiti on a hubpage. It's the best they can do or will ever do. It's safe for them and doesn't require much effort: copy and paste from Hannity's webpage.

And I only have 6 followers because I just started to use my hub 2 weeks ago. How many of them had dozens of followers after 2 weeks -

their mom, wife, and kids don't count.


BLACKANDGOLDJACK profile image

BLACKANDGOLDJACK 4 years ago from Blitzburgh area

jbyers, you said:

"Yes, I have a BA in Journalism and an Associates in Political Science. I have worked for several newspapers since my career started when I was 19 and wrote a book on WWII. All these guys can do is spray paint graffiti on a hubpage. This is what their lives have amounted to and this is the best that they can do or will ever do."

What is it going to take to get you to shut the bleep up about your degree in journalism? Do you really want to play the "this is the best that they can do or will ever do" game? You got any money to play?

So what newspapers did you write for and what is the link to your book on WWII on Amazon?

(Does anybody think this dope is smoking dope besides me?)


WillStarr profile image

WillStarr 4 years ago from Phoenix, Arizona

"I have worked for several newspapers since my career started when I was 19 and wrote a book on WWII."

That poorly written sentence would get a real journalist fired.


jbyers profile image

jbyers 4 years ago from Wapwallopen, PA

It's proof that I can write, research, and report facts not just blabber whatever comes into my head. That I have academic and professional credentials compared to your couple hubs.

I'm not outlining my life's work for the likes of you, unless I get to see your resume too. You supposedly live across the state from me so go googling. My book was an independent short run print through my own publishing company. My grandfather served in Italy and I reworked his journal. He was a REAL Republican.

I guess now you're going to bad mouth my dead Bronze Star decorated WWII veteran grandfather now...sigh...proceed...


BLACKANDGOLDJACK profile image

BLACKANDGOLDJACK 4 years ago from Blitzburgh area

Sure, jbyers, you can see my resume too. You go first, you issued the challenge. Let's put it all out there for everybody to see. Then we'll have a credibility check.

You don't have the guts.


jbyers profile image

jbyers 4 years ago from Wapwallopen, PA

WillStarr you got hub awards for your writing. Wow, I'm sure your 4th grade teacher is very proud of you.

And BLACKANDGOLDJACK your main interest - before your children - is beer? And you always get banned from forums, I wonder why?

Geez, I was wrong about you guys; had you pegged all wrong. My mistake.


BLACKANDGOLDJACK profile image

BLACKANDGOLDJACK 4 years ago from Blitzburgh area

I called BS on you, jbyers.

Put up or shut up.

Let's see this resume of yours.


BLACKANDGOLDJACK profile image

BLACKANDGOLDJACK 4 years ago from Blitzburgh area

And another thing, jbyers, I have my own publishing company just like you.

Only I can prove it.


jbyers profile image

jbyers 4 years ago from Wapwallopen, PA

Thought you wanted me to shut the bleep up about my degree in journalism?

Oh, and go ahead, prove it. Must be a grand novel on debuggin your kitty, girlfights, or the steelers.

Wow, I AM impressed.


ib radmasters profile image

ib radmasters 4 years ago from Southern California

jbyers

your statement

------

So then let's stop blaming and get down to business - which Romney is supposedly so good at. What are Romney's ideas to better the economy, his plans for afghanistan, lowering the price of gas, better and affordable education, lowering crime and murder, affordable healthcare, immigration, preserving social security, lowering unemployment, and lowering taxes? Even better, what are your ideas?

-----------------

These questions need to be answered by President Obama because it was his job and he failed. That is his record, not a conclusion.

He spent this year going to over 175 fund raisers, playing over 100 golf games, and numerous campaign trips.

Do you really think he was working as the president, or just working for his personal goal. He was too busy to meet publicly with his job panel for more than the last six months.

The real problem is the blind loyal party voters that keep reelecting incumbents that fail, and they don't make them accountable.

And if the big issue is the rich versus the poor and taxes, then just abolish the Income Tax System. Both parties setup the Internal Revenue Code to give those with money more options on their taxes. Hardly any of that code is useful for a Wage Earner.

It is not fair to expect someone to pay a higher percentage on their taxes just because they earned more. A fair system would apply the same tax percentage across the board.

The focus is not on Romney, but on Obama and why he failed to keep his promises.


jbyers profile image

jbyers 4 years ago from Wapwallopen, PA

ib radmasters - i'm bored with political discussions at this point. i'm just here to screw with the beer drinking, my kids come second steelers fan.

But yeah, the tax system should be reworked. Let's do it.


BLACKANDGOLDJACK profile image

BLACKANDGOLDJACK 4 years ago from Blitzburgh area

jbyers:

You remind me of something you find in a chicken coop. And I'm not talking about eggs.

C'mon, let's see your resume. I called you out. Because I want to end this nonsense.

What's the matter, honey?


jbyers profile image

jbyers 4 years ago from Wapwallopen, PA

And Bush never attended fund raisers, played golf, and spent time on the ranch? Please.

W spent more than $124 million on all of his trips including spending 487 days at Camp David; 490 days at Crawford Ranch; and 43 days at the Kennebunkport Compound.

Total: 1020 days, more than 1/3rd of his presidency. Bush set the record for most vacation time taken by a president.


jbyers profile image

jbyers 4 years ago from Wapwallopen, PA

BLACKANDGOLDJACK

I notice that you are carefully watching your words. You must be on hubpages probation since you get kicked out of forums on a regular basis.

You must be pretty sauced if you think I'm gonna show you my resume containing personal information. You might want to wait to ask the kids to get daddy another beer.

You never told me what you do. Nothing about your publishing company. Got a degree of your own to boast about? Criminal record?

You're a religious guy. Pray to God and maybe he'll divinely intervene and whisper my resume into your ear. Keep praying...keep praying...No wait, that's your cat. Forgot God doesn't exist.


tsadjatko profile image

tsadjatko 4 years ago from maybe (the guy or girl) next door

Will y'all never learn - I repeat - Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

nite, nite.


jbyers profile image

jbyers 4 years ago from Wapwallopen, PA

Once again, tsadjatko is back to name calling. Man, you never give up. Guess that's why you're on the FBI watch list.

You're so witty and clever tsadjatko.

Can I be your friend?


BLACKANDGOLDJACK profile image

BLACKANDGOLDJACK 4 years ago from Blitzburgh area

What do I do, jbyers? Well, I was Vice President of a Fortune 500 company. But I got bored with that. Well sure I have degrees. One, two, three, four, five. Oh, and I'm a decorated war veteran, just like your grandfather. You can find my publishing company at amazon.com, barnesandnoble.com, etc.

I don't really care about your resume. I could just pull out a blank sheet of paper that would contain about the same thing.

I just hate liars.


jbyers profile image

jbyers 4 years ago from Wapwallopen, PA

good night BLACKANDGOLDJACK. good night WillStarr. good night tsadjatko.

i love you all so very very much. maybe someday, we can join hands, have BLACKANDGOLDJACK's kids get us beers and we can sit together and share stories of this day. this grand day. when 4 men met on the internet to discuss politics, scrapped a little bit, cried a little bit, but eventually became the best of friends. never to part ways. and always in each other's hearts and minds. i feel like 36 years of my life has been wasted and only now have i found my true meaning in life - the real reason God put me here (oh yeah, he doesn't exist). the real reason i was put here was to meet and love these men as my brother, drunken degenerate father, and a senile grandfather.

good night sweet princes. good night and may god bless you all until we meet again some glorious day. XOXO


BLACKANDGOLDJACK profile image

BLACKANDGOLDJACK 4 years ago from Blitzburgh area

I'll tell you what, jbyers, I would sue the doctor for malpractice who performed your frontal lobotomy.


CMerritt profile image

CMerritt 4 years ago from Pendleton, Indiana Author

jbyers,

Since you seem to be so very prideful of obtaining your BA in Journalism and an associate’s degree in Social Sciences, it should not be too difficult for you to answer a simple question that I asked earlier.

What is Obama doing, to help our economy? What is he doing that is going to create jobs? What are his plans to get 46 million OFF of welfare?

You asked a similar question regarding what is Romney going to do, and I took the time to answer you.

I did not “pick” on you. I simply asked a question, trying to understand exactly why it is you prefer Obama over Romney.

I never called you any names, as you did me. I would like to try to restore this hub, to become a civil debate on exactly “Are you better off than you was four years ago?”

I’m asking that question to everyone who has taken the time to stop by and join in.

Jybers, I will be waiting for your answer to my question, as YOU demanded others answer to yours.


jbyers profile image

jbyers 4 years ago from Wapwallopen, PA

CMerritt: Restoring civility to this hub is impossible at this point. When guys like BLACKANDGOLDJACK, WillStarr, tsadjatko come out of the gate insulting people a healthy debate will never happen.

If you scroll along this page, you'll see me and other people tried to discuss matters. We used facts as well as opinions but didn't personally attack or insult anyone but the people listed above hijacked the conversation with "liberal this, liberal that" and so on. And you didn't step in to restore civility then, so why do it now?

I did give you credit for supplying facts in the conversation, but you were supplying facts to a question I asked someone else - that's why I didn't and won't answer you. I wanted to hear them support their own comments.

If you did read my comments you would see that I don't think Obama has done a great job as president. I'm a little disappointed and there are things that need to be changed - but he can't do it alone and he shouldn't. He needs the cooperation, support, and ideas from republicans and democrats; steel workers and nurses, retirees and kindergartners, men and women.

I'm not interested in discussing politics today. CMerritt you seem like a decent person to talk with, but the other people you allowed to hijack this page reflects badly on you as the author and steward of this hub.

Maybe we can talk another day, but being interrupted by insults and attacks while trying to address your questions and responses is not very attractive to me today. I'm sure this will all be interpreted as weakness or incompetence, so go ahead do your worst. It doesn't matter because I really don't care what any of you have to say because you are just people on the internet. Some of the people here who have graced this hub are like children just learning to ride a bike. A colt just learning to trot. A puppy learning to run.


teamrn profile image

teamrn 4 years ago from Chicago

I think it takes a few to play the 'hurl insult' game, CMerrritt. Most of us are quite capable of participating in a lively FACT-based discussion. "I don't feel like it" sounds to me like a cop-out. The kind of thing I saw when I've been 'had.' Human nature.


WillStarr profile image

WillStarr 4 years ago from Phoenix, Arizona

"CMerritt: Restoring civility to this hub is impossible at this point. When guys like BLACKANDGOLDJACK, WillStarr, tsadjatko come out of the gate insulting people a healthy debate will never happen."

Which of course is blatantly untrue. I disputed him on the facts, and he responded with: "Listen, schmuck'.

When it's obvious that someone is lying about their 'expert' qualifications, I think it's appropriate to note that they are frauds so others are not taken in by their lies and deceptions. That's quite different from low class name calling, like 'schmuck', or to tell someone to 'eat mt d**k''.

Your efforts are fruitless Chris, because you are dealing with an internet troll, whose real purpose is to disrupt. I've seen hundreds of them, and this guy is a classic troll.

After reading my comment, feel free to delete it, Chris. I fully understand.


CMerritt profile image

CMerritt 4 years ago from Pendleton, Indiana Author

jbyers,

I may be wasting my time, but I think I need to go back on how all of this came about…it went like this:

We were having a fine discussion when you made the first attack….at me with the following statement:

“A good author sits back and let's the audience discuss his article, not interject when his "side" can't stick up for him.”

Then, you replied with the FIRST of the name-calling with:

"Listen, schmuck."

Then, you followed up with:

"Retardican."

You then followed up with more name-calling of Josak with “ballsack”!

At this time, no one has lowered themselves to calling YOU any harsh names.

Then you got arrogant and attacked me with:

"I have a BA in Journalism - you only have a hubpage."

And followed up with:

"You have a lot to learn CMerritt. Your writing is subpar - a C+ at best, and your political commentary is not much better"

.

The whole time, I was being kind with you, and merely was asking you to answer a simple question…one that you demanded by others.

Then you come back with:

“eat a dick!” and “douche.”

And you have the nerve to claim that others were having “personal attacks” against just you!

Later on you was quoted as saying:

“Yeah, I used a few "inappropriate language". So what, I was bored.”

My advice to you is this, if you want to be an adult and discuss with other adults…..learn to leave your childishness behind you, and engage with some dignity.

I’m asking everyone forward, lets keep this civil.

This has been quite the debate overall, and I appreciate everyone here who has took the time to “chime in”

Chris


tsadjatko profile image

tsadjatko 4 years ago from maybe (the guy or girl) next door

Hey Chris, thanks for leaving the comments for observers to see and come to their own conclusions - that is always the beauty of these discussions because despite whether anyone is right or wrong the truth is revealed in their rhetoric for any objective observer to see - and come to the (in this case) obvious conclusions. But now the comment section is so long I doubt anyone can be motivated to read it all and gleam anything from it. Why don't you close it out and give us a hint what your next hub will be? :-)


tsadjatko profile image

tsadjatko 4 years ago from maybe (the guy or girl) next door

BTW I never called jbyers a name I simply made a statement, an old cliche, but evidently even he must have felt the shoe fit - because HE put it on himself.


teamrn profile image

teamrn 4 years ago from Chicago

WillStarr,

I've never known you to be disruptive. We need more Will Starrs with opinion-BASED ON FACT- but always willing to see that there is another side to the coin.


CMerritt profile image

CMerritt 4 years ago from Pendleton, Indiana Author

Will Starr has his act together, and speaks with wisdom. He is not afraid to call things as they are.

I have another hub or rant, if you will, discussing why it is many liberals seem to be hateful and rude.

I have zero problems with discussions with those who disagree with me, and there are several out there on hubpages that are classy folks.


teamrn profile image

teamrn 4 years ago from Chicago

CMerritt, I nominate myself for inclusion in that category if I may!! Annie


CMerritt profile image

CMerritt 4 years ago from Pendleton, Indiana Author

and I will second that Annie!

You ARE one of the classy ones!

:)


BLACKANDGOLDJACK profile image

BLACKANDGOLDJACK 4 years ago from Blitzburgh area

Hey Chris,

First of all, I apologize to you for my part in getting this hub off track.

I, however, have no intention of offering an olive branch to jbyers. If somebody takes a swing at me, I swing back.

But yeah, let’s get this discussion back to what really matters. The economy is in the toilet. And somebody is going to flush us all down with the you know what if “we” don’t do something about it.


CMerritt profile image

CMerritt 4 years ago from Pendleton, Indiana Author

No need to apologize B&G Jack! jbyers took it to that level. I too, swing back when I am swung at....

I think the closer this election gets, the passion of politics is getting ramped up. There are serveral of us who understand the significance of this election.


teamrn profile image

teamrn 4 years ago from Chicago

Thanks, C.Merrit!


tsadjatko profile image

tsadjatko 4 years ago from maybe (the guy or girl) next door

Just in case anybody actually believed anything jbyers said

I am not on "the FBI watch list"

another thing that went right over his head I suppose.

In my profile I refer to the FBI knowing who the legend of tsadjatko is, which is a tongue in cheek reference to the fact that tsadjatko is a Quinault indian name for bigfoot - the legend of bigfoot - of course jbyers would assume I am on the FBI watch list...just another example of his propensity to be a cornucopia of misinformation! :-)

Hey Chris - what's your link for the hub on liberals?


CMerritt profile image

CMerritt 4 years ago from Pendleton, Indiana Author

You are good with me tsadjatko! I appreciate your stance and your support. jbyers has much to learn....

Here is the hub I wrote earlier this summer regarding liberals....

http://hubpages.com/politics/WHY-exactly-liberals-...


Sueswan 4 years ago

Hi Chris,

I enjoyed your rant.

Voted up and interesting


CMerritt profile image

CMerritt 4 years ago from Pendleton, Indiana Author

Hi Sue, nice to see you, and I thank you for your compliments.

Chris


Cogerson profile image

Cogerson 4 years ago from Virginia

I very enjoyable rant to read. I love the first picture of Obama saying his work is done surrounded by rumble....classic. I live in Virginia so I am being run over by ads and polls and political mail, both sides with all of the negativity actually has me wishing there was a 3rd candidate. The best piece and scariest piece of information in this hub?.....1/3 of Americans is dependent on the government.....I think Obama's master plan is coming into focus....voted up and awesome.


CMerritt profile image

CMerritt 4 years ago from Pendleton, Indiana Author

Thanks Cogersons, Great to see you! Yes, I think Obama is letting America see him for who he truly is...or rather is NOT. That is a "leader". At least NOT a leader for our Constitution and those who wish to honor it. He is filling the trough and feeding voters who desire to be taken care of....THAT is his plan. Not to the hard working Americans who merely want opportunities.

I appreciate your visit!

Chris


WillStarr profile image

WillStarr 4 years ago from Phoenix, Arizona

This morning, the Rasmussen poll showed Obama ahead by two, despite his obvious failure to fix the economy and the botched foreign policy with Islam.

Four more years of redistribution-Obama will devastate the US, so what on Earth are the voters thinking?


CMerritt profile image

CMerritt 4 years ago from Pendleton, Indiana Author

Will, I am STILL cautiously optimistic......I am reminded of a recent article that I read stating that Gallup had Jimmy Carter up over Ronald Reagan by 4 points in mid to late September ... and was up 8 points in October. In fact there was a published Gallup poll showing Carter up six among likely voters in a poll conducted Oct. 24 to 27.

I refuse to accept that Americans (overall) are ignorant of what is really going on....I think we have a very intelligent segment of our population that does get it. Many of these people chose NOT to vote during our last POTUS election, and now realize the damage the caused.

Keep your head up!


WillStarr profile image

WillStarr 4 years ago from Phoenix, Arizona

Actually, just two weeks before the election, Gallup had it Jimmy Carter 47, Ronald Reagan 39!

Reagan won in a landslide.

Good points, Chris!


CMerritt profile image

CMerritt 4 years ago from Pendleton, Indiana Author

I may end up eating crow, and I SURE hate to "jinx" myself, but I really believe we will not only end up with a strong victory in the White House, but also gaining control over the senate.

but that is just a secret between YOU and ME!

:)


b. Malin profile image

b. Malin 4 years ago

Sadly, NO. I did not vote for Obama. I felt he didn't have any Experience, and now we have scene the Results...not pretty. I think the American people have quietly HAD ENOUGH, of this so called HOPE and CHANGE, and will Vote for Romney.

Good Hub CMerritt, Great Comments.


CMerritt profile image

CMerritt 4 years ago from Pendleton, Indiana Author

Hi b! Great to have you back!

Yes, Obama's inexperience has proven as to why he needs to go.

He had a good game in talking, but as we know actions are louder than words...he has has failed miserably.

It is time for some REAL Leadership....


Pamela99 profile image

Pamela99 4 years ago from United States

Just looking at the long list of comments alone says it all about your hub being outstanding and of course we are not better off than we were 4 years ago. Our country is in an awful mess. Obama is a failure as a president.


CMerritt profile image

CMerritt 4 years ago from Pendleton, Indiana Author

Hi Pamela, Thanks for the comments, and lets go out and take our country back!


teamrn profile image

teamrn 4 years ago from Chicago

Am I better off than I was 4 years ago? Heck no, and I don't see how ANYONE can think so. They may be better off, but if they escape the fact that others are WORSE off, they must have their heads in the sand and I call them Obama supporters.


tsadjatko profile image

tsadjatko 4 years ago from maybe (the guy or girl) next door

Well according to The Messiah, Vengeance is ours, get out there and get revenge with your vote. It's the new normal, the new American dream, to vote revenge. That is what he meant isn't it? All Americans are entitled to access free birth control, food stamps and oh, every four years please top that off with a shot of revenge.


teamrn profile image

teamrn 4 years ago from Chicago

It is NOT the new norm, to vote revenge. It may be the liberal norm, but the whole US isn't liberal.


CMerritt profile image

CMerritt 4 years ago from Pendleton, Indiana Author

As Romney so elequently put it..."I want people to vote for "Love of Country."

Which one is more Presidential?

The new norm by the liberals has lowered the quality of Americans standards. It is up to us to raise that bar back up, to the exceptional Nation that we conservatives know we are.


tsadjatko profile image

tsadjatko 4 years ago from maybe (the guy or girl) next door

Well, at the very least most should find it hard to vote for a president whose own VP recently said of Barack Obama on the campaign trail: “There’s never been a day in the last four years I’ve been proud to be his vice president. Not one single day.”

Watch the clip: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OPdTSnmzdb4&feature and listen to the crowd cheer! What do they do, pay those people to cheer no matter what is said? Compared to Biden, Bush was a piker when it comes to gaffes! The only time Biden tells the truth is when he doesn't realize what he is saying !


teamrn profile image

teamrn 4 years ago from Chicago

C Merritt, the more Presidential...VOTE FOR LOVE OVE COUNTRY ALL MY FELLOW MEN AND WOMEN!!. Joe Biden shows in the video clip above why we don't need him representing us!


CMerritt profile image

CMerritt 4 years ago from Pendleton, Indiana Author

I heard ol joe say that.....it is so scary to think he is a heartbeat away from the most powerful position on earth.

I think Paul Ryan will be one tremendous VP and fully capable of stepping into that POTUS if ever called upon.


CMerritt profile image

CMerritt 4 years ago from Pendleton, Indiana Author

I heard ol joe say that.....it is so scary to think he is a heartbeat away from the most powerful position on earth.

I think Paul Ryan will be one tremendous VP and fully capable of stepping into that POTUS if ever called upon.


teamrn profile image

teamrn 4 years ago from Chicago

I'm not, and the only way that I'll be better off is if I work with liberals and conservatives and we learn to work with each other and SHOW our legislators that it can b e done. It's no small order, but it can be done. This is what Americans do best; they work together and come together to solve problems.

Maybe it is time that WE led by example. Am I in the Obama camp? Gladly, proudly, I'm not, but I still take the high road that my fellow countrymen are much more important than political disagreements.


CMerritt profile image

CMerritt 4 years ago from Pendleton, Indiana Author

Hi teamrn!

We are at the mercy of our POTUS at this juncture. He is the one that MUST lead by example. Ronald Reagan was able to rise to such an occassion. He faced some very difficult times with a hostile house and senate.

He took the steps he had too, to reach out and build a personal relationship with those on the opposing aisle. If he wanted a particular bill to pass, he went before the nation and gave a passionate plea as to the significance of it and why it must pass......he urged all Americans to write and call their congress and insist this bill be passed.

It worked.

I want nothing more than this economy to BOOM once again, with prosperity for ALL who want a part of it.

Sorry for the ramble,

I appreciate you coming by and sharing with me and the rest of us.

Chris


teamrn profile image

teamrn 4 years ago from Chicago

I want nothing more than a boom. We're one pay-check away from bankruptcy and I KNOW that we're not alone. I question if Barack Obama has it in him to common respect and lead. But, I know that for the good of our country, I need to be an American, first, and give this man a chance. I'll never forget the 'line; of 'vote for love of country.' We all need to band together and try to heal, put out the olive branch. What did Rodney King say, "Can't we all get along?"

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