Arizona SB 1070 : Determining Immigration Status by Police

Too many illegals
Too many illegals
New Americans being sworn in.
New Americans being sworn in.
A land of immigrants
A land of immigrants

What Does An American Look Like?

Ay, Caramba ! Do you have your papers? papers? Yes, proof that you belong in America? Do you mean, on me? Of course, I need to see proof. Huh, here is my drivers license. Sorry, that is not proof you belong legally in America. Are you kidding? I just graduated from Grande Casa High School, of course I am American. I am third generation Italian, not Mexican. This frickin' happens all the time to me. I was born in Tempe. I don't carry my passport with me because I don't have one. I have never left the country. Is that a crime? Officer, what did I do? We had a complaint about a man loitering around this business area. I still need some proof you are an American. This is frickin crazy!!!!

Arizona police probably have this conversation all the time, every day. They do so because of the Arizona state law SB 1070 that makes it a crime to be an illegal immigrant or for them to work in the state. It empowers the police to arrest anyone suspected of committing a crime that would merit deportation. But, it is section 2B that is controversial and recently upheld by the US Supreme Court that allows the police to determine immigration status of a person under reasonable suspicion. This allows them to ask for papers.

In Europe, this kind of action is totally normal, expected. But, America is comprises of 50 states, not countries that require a person to carry their papers. The only papers that prove you are a true American is your passport. But, unless you have left the country, you probably do not have one. It is not against the law not to have a passport. The next thing, at least for immigrants, would be citizenship papers. But what about those not of Hispanic background, that look like any white American. Myself, for example. I could not prove my citizenship if I was driving in AZ and got pulled over for a traffic issue. I never carry a passport, in fact, until 12 years ago, my passport was woefully outdated when I was a kid. Since a drivers license is not accepted, despite it is obvious I am American, I would not be able to prove it at the scene. So, by law, the police would detain me.

But, not all Americans are white, they are black, red, brown and shades in between. They have heavy or light accents in their English, they are not all proficient at it, they come from 2nd or 3rd generations who were born here, went to school here, act like Americans, work here or maybe not, and most do not carry a passport or their birth certificate with them at all times. They may not even have it.

AZ police have a big problem. What a headache! It gets worse. if the person is unable to prove his status as a citizen or visa\permanent residency,by law, the police must detain them and be transferred to federal immigration ICE. So, if I was unable to show proof, I would be sent to ICE! Ay, Caramba!!

States, by themselves, cannot determine if someone is a citizen or not, that is only a Federal obligation. Eventually, it would be obvious, it would be found I was a US citizen, but talk about the waste of time until it gets to that point.

Now, because of this AZ law, other states are passing similar ones. This may lead to a National ID card, one required for legal residents, much like a license. How else would I be able to proof my status barring my passport or birth certificate ?

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Comments 35 comments

Nights Dream profile image

Nights Dream 4 years ago from Allentown, pa

I do agree with you, to a point. The police should not have that much power. On the flip side, I am all for the law. I have read several articles regarding citizens lives destroyed by illegals who employ identity theft. Since the federal government has not been able to control the flow of illegal immigrants, I believe the states need to take action. There is no simple, easy solution to this problem. A federal id card may be one of the few solutions left. Hopefully, I did not offend you with my opinions. Have a great weekend!


Nights Dream profile image

Nights Dream 4 years ago from Allentown, pa

Unfortunately, a lot of people tend to abuse the power given.


Old Poolman profile image

Old Poolman 4 years ago from Rural Arizona

I see that you live in California. Your state is as overrun by undocumented persons as Arizona. You also know what a huge drain this many people put on our medical facilities and entitlement programs.

Some will give you figures that they spend much of their earning here in this country and that helps our economy. I read recently where it costs us $160 per day to hold a undocumented person in detention while they await their hearing and deportation.

I don't agree with police being able to demand ID just because the individual doesn't look like a US citizen. In fact, what the heck does a US citizen look like? But on the other hand I am asked to produce ID for many things such as using my own credit card in a store where they don't know me.

This whole situation is a huge can of worms. We are damned if we do and damned if we don't. Arizona was being overrun with undocumented persons and the Feds are doing little or nothing about it. So Arizona thought it would be a good idea to do something ourselves. Nothing in SB-1070 goes beyond what is already in the Federal Laws. Yet Arizona got some really bad PR for trying to help ourselves. I'm sure our governor would gladly drop the whole thing if the Feds would start doing what they are supposed to do.

One thing that would certainly help would be a good guest worker program, and that would be simple to draft and implement. We had that years ago and it worked quite well. The growers got the labor force they needed to harvest their crops, and the workers came here legally, got paid for their work, and went home when the harvest season ended. How simple is that?

From what I am told by friends who are police officers, when they do detain a group of undocumented workers with no ID, ICE instructs them to let them go as they don't have the manpower to come get them. So I hope someone can come up with a workable solution to this problem. I would hate to see the day when we all have to show ID to go from state to state, but it may come to that.

Interesting hub and a really good job writing it.


perrya profile image

perrya 4 years ago Author

Thanks. I agree with all of you. Maybe the national ID card is the ONLY way, otherwise, I can see all sorts of lawsuits from Americans being detained because the police think there is probable cause. I am sure there are some illegals that could pass as American. Yes, they do cost our state of Calif a lot of money in services etc. I did not know that if one cannot prove they are legit, they are taken in. I thought it was just a ticket that they must go to court on.


Blawger profile image

Blawger 4 years ago from California

Arizona's law is overreaching in its scope and unconstitutional because the federal government has sole and exclusive authority over immigration/naturalization issues. ICE should be enforcing our immigration laws, not the Arizona police. This is not a debatable point! The sole and exclusive power of the federal government to regulate immigration is clearly set forth in our constitution and supported by case law. Any changes in immigration law must occur at the federal level, it is not a state power.


perrya profile image

perrya 4 years ago Author

@blawger-I think the US Supreme Ct made your point moot. They seemed to be looking at the law differently than those at street level. It seems the police are actually NOT determining status just whether they are legally here by asking for some sort of proof. If not, then they hand them over to ICE to determine it. A national ID card would solve the issue. of course, my blog presents a lot of valid points about this whole AZ law.


Josak profile image

Josak 4 years ago from variable

The absence of facts in this debate is always very troubling to me:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_impact_of_il...

If people would just bother to read about the issue first (I mean illegal immigration itself) they might see things differently, economically there is no doubt that illegals actually help the economy and according to research raise the wealth of the average American by %1, surveys of economists showed that 75%+ believed that illegals "substantially aided the national economy" the only reason to oppose illegal immigration into the US at the moment is xenophobia, economically there is no reason at all. Furthermore the number of illegals in the US since 2004 has halved as our economy has gone down the drain so it's pretty hopeless invasion. Imagine how beneficial the illegal immigrant workforce could be if Americans could get over their blinders and look at the issue impartially, illegals could be given community service instead of being deported, illegals could be allowed into the country with a charge of a couple of thousand dollars that they don't have to pay the coyote, tax programs could be further developed to encourage illegals to pay tax, more than a third of illegals already pay taxes voluntarily, as an economist I believe this would be a great way to boost the failing American economy.


Blawger profile image

Blawger 4 years ago from California

Great point josak.


perrya profile image

perrya 4 years ago Author

I think Josak's point is valid but off topic, IMO. The cost to AZ or illegals, after accounting for the taxes they pay etc, is still one billion.


Hxprof 4 years ago from Clearwater, Florida

Perrya, you point to a concern I've had about Arizona's law from the begining, even though I fully support what the state is doing. I hate the idea of a national ID card, but I agree that such a thing may be necessary in order to prove citizenship.

Arizona's law is sound. If someone is here illegally, whether they be from Iceland, Ireland, Italy, Russia, India, Japan, Iraq, Angola, UK or any other country on the planet, they don't belong here. The criticism often used against laws designed to rid us of illegals is xenophobia; (it's been used once again in one of the above comments) that's a red herring.


Old Poolman profile image

Old Poolman 4 years ago from Rural Arizona

@Blawger - I'm curious why you feel the Arizona law is overreaching and unconstitutional. We in Arizona are merely attempting to do what the Feds are supposed to do but are not doing. Can you name even one country who just leaves their borders wide open and allows anyone into their country at will, and can't ask to see documentation if they believe you are in their country illegally? I can't think of a single one.

Let's say you lived in a small town, and all of the law enforcement officers went on vacation at exactly the same time. That would leave you with no protection whatsoever. We all know it is illegal to take the law into your own hands, but now the people who are supposed to do this job have all left town. What choice would you have other than the citizens of this town trying to protect themselves?

There is now a proposal to ban the use of the word "illegal" when describing undocumented people living in this country. The people themselves are not "illegal", but being here without going through proper channels is "illegal." I don't think banning the use of a word is going to change a thing regarding illegal immigration.


perrya profile image

perrya 4 years ago Author

Well, we do know that many illegals are crossing into Syria ;0, I think they are iranians


Josak profile image

Josak 4 years ago from variable

You know most countries which are doing well have illegal immigration certainly my home countries of Argentina and Australia do in neither of them would you be required to prove your legal status if asked by the cops that is ridiculous and invasive. The police should have nothing to do with my life unless I have committed a crime, not on suspicion of being illegal which is undoubtedly going to be racially focused on Hispanics, If someone asked me to prove I was American they would have to drag me to jail first I don't live in AZ but you can bet I won't be visiting either if the law passes you conservatives are always talking about freedoms but as soon as it suits you you are quite happy to give the police the power to arrest people on suspicion of being illegals, the law is nothing but hypocrisy and xenophobia and gives the police the ability to harass people especially Hispanics.


Old Poolman profile image

Old Poolman 4 years ago from Rural Arizona

Josak, If you are in any country illegally you have committed a crime. Have you wondered what would happen if you were arrested in Mexico for being there illegally? By the way, I'm not a conservative, I am registered as an Independent. There is absolutely nothing in the Arizona HB-1070 bill that is not included in the Federal Law. Are you angry with the Feds regarding their laws on illegal immigration or just Arizona?


Hxprof 4 years ago from Clearwater, Florida

Josak-Even if a few countries allow illegals to come and go as they please, that doesn't mean it makes sense. I know just a little about Austrailia's policies. When someone gets to Austrailia seeking amnesty, they are detained. Why? Partly for security reasons. It wouldn't help Austrailia to allow in criminals or terrorists, or to allow in those with contagious diseases.

You're focused on the fact that there are xenophobes that support measures like those in Arizona. So what? There are nasty people who support legit laws of all kinds.

I empathize with your concern about being asked to prove you're a US citizen. I don't like that either. Now, if the US government would SECURE THE DAMNED BORDERS, with vigor, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

It burns me up that folks don't grasp the FACT that lack of border security is a national security issue. The fact that Americans won't take border security seriously is costing states a lot of money (regardless of the beneftis to some folks), increasing tuberculosis rates,deflating wages for American citizens and green card holders, and taking jobs away from the lowest 10%(economically speaking) of American society. Yes, there's all that, but there's the certainty that with our borders unsecured we WILL lose one or more of our cities to terrorist attack. Your inability or unwillingness to see these things is astounding.


Josak profile image

Josak 4 years ago from variable

To poolman, Illegals in mexico are deported just the same as they are here, I jut checked their immigration law.

To Hxprof, I never said Australia let immigrants come and go what I said was that the police have no right to stop you on suspicion and force you to prove you are an Australian.

Next firstly securing the borders is damn near impossible they are way too big and the cost would be monumental, there is just no way to secure a border of that size, and as it is according to actual economic data the illegal immigration brings in money. As for terrorism no I am not concerned why? Because any state or non state entity that can't get someone into this country even if every precaution was taken is no threat to us, if you secure the border you won't catch terrorists all you will do is terrorize poor families trying to get across for a better life and raise the cost of coyotes who will quickly find a way through.

But I was not talking about any of this what, I was talking about is the invasion of privacy, the burden of proof always lies with the accuser I don't have to prove to anyone that I am a legal citizen they have to prove I am not, that is the basis of a fair legal system and I don't care if it's the fed or Arizona doing it but any state body that does not respect that is tyrannical and has lost the right to dictate anything.


perrya profile image

perrya 4 years ago Author

The only easy solution is a national ID card.


Hxprof 4 years ago from Clearwater, Florida

Josak, you said "securing the borders is damn near impossible they are way too big and the cost would be monumental, there is just no way to secure a border of that size". I don't care how difficult and expensive it is, if it's not done we will be witness to the death of many Americans. It's that simple.

You commented also that,"if you secure the border you won't catch terrorists all you will do is terrorize poor families trying to get across for a better life and raise the cost of coyotes who will quickly find a way through." Terrorize poor families??? No my friend. If they know in advance that our borders are secure, few will even attempt it. Even now those who die attempting to come into the US via deserts have themselves to blame, not us.

You also reiterated your main point: "But I was not talking about any of this what, I was talking about is the invasion of privacy". Precisely. I agree. That's why I made such a fuss about securing the borders. Short of securing the borders, we will be facing such invasion of privacy. I'd much rather see us do the difficult thing (like Austrailia has done), and secure the borders than have police question our nationality. As Perrya comments above, the national ID card would be the least evil way to do this, though it's still problematic.


Josak profile image

Josak 4 years ago from variable

Australia borders are not secure (people get through) and Australia is universally surrounded by a big ocean the situation is incomparable, The USSR tried to secure their borders with little luck and we have much more attempted traffic on a huge border, the vast majority of which does not even have a fence to mark it, we are a country in massive debt, when I say it s impossible to secure our border I am not exaggerating even with East Berlin and a fully militarized massive fence with orders to shoot on violation people still kept getting through and they had a tiny stretch to defend.

As for the ID I think the cure is way way worse than the ailment.


Old Poolman profile image

Old Poolman 4 years ago from Rural Arizona

Josak - You said "To poolman, Illegals in mexico are deported just the same as they are here, I jut checked their immigration law."

I didn't mean the Mexican authorities would kill them and eat them. But I'll guarantee you an illegal in Mexico would not receive the same humane treatment they are giving when caught in this country. I recently read it now costs us (taxpayers) $160 per day to detain an undocumented person while awaiting for deportation. Many of the detainment centers are full and have no more room for new guests.

If I understand you correctly, you would be in favor of just opening the borders to anyone who wanted to come into this country because some will get through no matter what we do? Then I guess banks should lay off all of their security guards because some banks will get robbed anyhow?

Josak, you have a good heart and care a great deal about people, but you are all over the map with security issues. Would you really sleep well at night with wide open borders allowing anyone free entry in the country? Josak, believe it or not, not everyone is as nice as you or thinks the way you do. Some people actually have evil thoughts in mind when they sneak into our country, and would kill you and not think twice about it.

If you are unfortunate enough to get stopped for a traffic violation, you will be required to show ID. If you try to use a credit card where you are not known you will be required to show ID. If you try to get a library card you will be required to show ID. So please don't tell me that being required to show ID is a brand new concept for you.


perrya profile image

perrya 4 years ago Author

Poolman raised valid points on security.


Josak profile image

Josak 4 years ago from variable

AHHAHA seriously Poolman? I grew up in Argentina in a slum I am not naive about what people will and won't do, BUT firstly there are plenty of people who would harm me in America as it is, second I happen to be an economist so i can see this from an economic perspective that you can't that influences my position and lastly seriously how effective could we ever be at sopping people from getting in? On a border that big not at all, if it were up to me immigrants would come through the roads instead of crossing the desert (where they often die) there they would receive a one year visa for say three thousand dollars on the spot (they don't have to pay the coyote) and allowed through the Visa would direct them on how to pay taxes and make it their obligation to do so, anyone who does not leave at the end of their visa instead of being held and deported can be fined and given community service at least until we get back to the immigrant numbers we had six or seven years ago (which incidentally the country handled fine) that is about double the amount we have now, it is a money making machine for starters and we save lives and money on patrolling the border etc. plus we don't have to pay for deportation and according to actual research rather than unfounded opinion of which there is far too much on this issue the immigrants will be beneficial for the economy anyway.

As for the ID issue sure I can be asked for ID in places but only by choice as in I choose to use my credit card and I choose to get a library card and if I don't have ID on me nothing much happens what this law mandates is a totally different concept and it's totalitarian and limits our freedoms in a way no one should be comfortable with.

Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. ~ Benjamin Franklin


perrya profile image

perrya 4 years ago Author

Yes, a heated debate-just issue national ID cards.


Josak profile image

Josak 4 years ago from variable

Then suddenly there is a card we have to carry with us at all times or face jail?

You don't think this will impact harder on Hispanics? I lose stuff daily, does this mean if I lose my card I con't go outside until I have a new one? Do any of you have any concept of what the word freedom means?


Old Poolman profile image

Old Poolman 4 years ago from Rural Arizona

Josak _ Obviously there are bad people no matter where you go in the world. Your correct it is a big border. Short of putting troops every 15 feet along the border there will be gaps people will sneak through. I have told you before, I am not anti-immigration, that is how this great country started. I am against people being here illegally. Although you will deny it, these illegals are a drain on our resources such as medical and education. I will have to take your word for how much they contribute to our economy, but I'm sure it is a substantial amount. If they contribute more than they take, it is truly a plus for our economy. I have told you before I am disgusted that our government can't craft and implement a guest worker program that would accomplish much of what you said. A certain amount of their wages could be held in an escrow account they would get when the leave the country. The growers have crops to harvest, and they need work. How hard is that to put together. We had it once under the name "Bracero Program" and for the most part it worked until the government ended the program. If individuals enter the country on a work permit they a here legally. If they choose to just sneak in, they are here illegally.

I'm not sure what language is in SB-1070 that has you so upset over the ID issue. Have you read the entire bill or is most of this coming from some blog or something you were told? I would imagine you are thinking profiling, but I don't think that would be a big issue. The police are now authorized to stop anyone and ask for some form of ID if they suspect something is not right. That is what we pay them to do. Through the years we have tied the hands of law enforcement so badly that they can barely do their job as it is.

You and I share the same concerns when it comes to people coming to this country because they are hungry and there is no work available in the place they call home. I just will never agree with you that we should just open the borders and let it happen. It could be done fairly easily if our Government officials would get off their butts and do it. You have no idea how many growers have crops rot in the fields or fruit on the trees because they can't get help. We need a solution to this problem, but tearing down the border fences is not it.


Hxprof 4 years ago from Clearwater, Florida

Josak, I read the information you posted regards the benefits of illegal immigration, and yes, the national economy benefits from illegal immigrants. I've seen these arguments before - there are some assumptions made in these arguments, like in any argument, that if put to the test might prove to be inaccurate. But we'll never see that.

The primary thrust of the economic benefits argument is that illegals benefit our economy by 1) being here and using goods/services 2) paying taxes from which they draw little benefit 3) working jobs that most Americans won't work.

The fact that there here-good-but we don't need anyone to be here illegally....that's, hummmm, illegal. The US has a right AND a responsibility to regulate who comes into our country. It's a national security issue (crime, terrorism, disease). If they were here legally purchasing services and goods that would be great! But illegals aren't here legally :()

Companies are allowed to ask the federal government to bring in workers LEGALLY to work jobs that they can't fill with Americans. This beats the hell out of allowing ANYONE to be here illegally, and they still pay taxes.

Bottom line, the economic argument is sound, but the results can be obtained legally as well. All that's needed is a bit of immigration reform, not the comprehensive reform promoted by Bush and Obama. Meanwhile, we secure the borders to protect the nation.

I've said it before and I'll keep saying it: Unsecured borders will cost us the lives of many Americans.


perrya profile image

perrya 4 years ago Author

well, it is as important as a perm residence card now issued to millions, so yes, requires some responsibility. A national ID is far easier to carry than a passport.


PJ Jones profile image

PJ Jones 4 years ago

The Arizona boarder has been secure for nearly one and a half years. Infact there have been no recordings of boarder crossing. Since Obama has been President, he has deported more illegal immigrants than any other President. The Arizona boarder has not presented a problem in the last year. Gov.Brewer has not had to complain..but she refuses to acknowledge the problem has been solved..typical of a Republican, she wants to control poor people by continuing with the SB1050 bill. I just hope the Supreme Court will stop her.

On 4/27/12 the lawyers presented their arguments to the Supreme Court(they will announce their decesion in June 2012), The Obama admin. not like SB1070 because they thought it would lead to "racial profiling" and sued Arizona. Listening to the arguments, the Supreme Court seemed like they were siding with Arizona because the Arizona lawyer stressed that before they asked for "papers please", they would have to have had a valid legal reason for original detainment. Arizona is asking the Supreme Court to give them power in determining how long to hold the person. Now they wait for the Feds to tell them to hold or release. Which means if you are a citizen you could be terribly inconvienced. Jan Brewer wants to run Arizona like a Mafia state. There are 2 prisons in Arizona, one is where immigrants are held and privately owned. The government pays the owners so much per head..for detained immigrants. Brewer is a co-owner with with a lawyer. This witch signed a death warrant for 60 people by changing the welfare rules, making these very ill patient ineligible for assistance.


Old Poolman profile image

Old Poolman 4 years ago from Rural Arizona

PB - The border is secure? There have been no illegal border crossing in the last year? You obviously don't live in or visit Arizona. If you get on I-19 any day of the week you will see busloads of illegals being hauled back to the border. Where in the world did you get this information? You could not be more wrong.


perrya profile image

perrya 4 years ago Author

The Governor of Az is co-owner of a private prison? Is this just a lie or the truth?


Old Poolman profile image

Old Poolman 4 years ago from Rural Arizona

I guess if you believe that there have been no illegal border crossings for 1 1/2 years, you would believe the Governor of AZ owns a prison. I have no idea where some of these stories come from and can't believe anyone would just accept them as fact.


TheManWithNoPants profile image

TheManWithNoPants 4 years ago from Tucson, Az.

While the author of this and I disagree in general, I think that this is a very honest take and from the heart. Well written my friend. There are some commenters in here who have some astonishingly bad information. Let me start by saying that if you don't live in a border state, you have no idea what's going on here. I helped bag up the remains of what was once a 15 or 16-year-old Mexican boy, just north of the city outside Green Valley. I've seen a lot of horrible things in my life, but considering how young he was, made this even worse. In Arizona, we have recovered over 2000 bodies from people who perished on our desert floor. I realize that if you haven't seen it, what I'm saying. Doesn't have much impact, but dying from heat exhaustion and thirst is a horrible death, and what the wildlife does to a human body leaves it with no dignity.

PJ Jones writes ... "The Arizona boarder has been secure for nearly one and a half years. Infact there have been no recordings of boarder crossing since Obama has been President"

Where do people get this blatantly false information? Throwing around statements like that is why we can never come together to solve problems.

My wife works for the Pinal County Sheriff's Department. You want numbers? Get them from her. She lives with this stuff, 320 days a year. Border crossings are down, mostly from our sagging economy, but no illegal crossings since Obama? Really? Forget my wife, who does this for a living. The New York Times reports 448.000 detintions of illegals in 2010, and 327,000 in 2011. (laughing) . If you're going to write something down, you can just make it up for cryin out loud!

Blawger writes ... "Arizona's law is overreaching in its scope and unconstitutional because the federal government has sole and exclusive authority over immigration/naturalization issues."

Once again, totally false and constitutionally incorrect. U.S. federal law requires all aliens over the age of 14 who remain in the United States for longer than 30 days to register with the U.S. government, and where in if the Federal Government is un willing or unable to secure a national border, the state has not only the jurisdiction but the duty to do so. Arizona's law mirrors the federal law.

I do agree that national security and human rights are balanced on a razor, but this thing is anything but a laughing matter. Fact ... Mexican drug cartels are spilling over into the United States and killing innocent Americans.Fact ... There are highways that we can't drive down and are posted due to the Mexican drug cartels. Fact ... Illegal immigration is destroying our infrastructure from the inside out, and I've got the numbers to prove it if anyone is interested. Fact: Hezbollah is working with and training with the Mexican drug cartels just inside the border, and you cannot tell the difference between a Hispanic or someone from the middle east, unless you're from the Middle East or Latin America. See where I'm going here? Fact ... Anyone who thinks that allowing good people to come over here and work for the breadcrumbs that people throw out to them, and allowing many of them to die horrible deaths in the Sonora Desert, is doing the Mexican people a favor, is very shortsighted. We need to help these people, but we need to help them on their side of the border, and we need to start quickly.

jim


perrya profile image

perrya 4 years ago Author

Jim has made many valid points especially with cartels and terrorists.


Hxprof 4 years ago from Clearwater, Florida

Yes Jim, Hezbollah is working with the drug cartels. Anyone who wants further proof of this can obtain it online with little effort, but I don't have the time or inclination to internet sites. One of the strongest indicators of Hezbollah links to the cartels is in the contruction of sophisticated tunnels under the US-Mexico border; these tunnels are strikingly similar to ones built under the Israel-Lebanon border.

Jim, you've provided information directly from someone involved with border issues on a day to day basis. It's this kind of truth that would break through the stonewall of denial many have built up. Sadly, I believe those who most need to see it won't.


Old Poolman profile image

Old Poolman 4 years ago from Rural Arizona

I also belong to a gun club, and shoot with many members of the Border Patrol on a regular basis. They occasionally share a story regarding groups of 100 or more illegals intercepted crossing the border the previous week. They always attempt to find and arrest the coyote who was escorting them, but most of the time he just blends in with the rest of the group if he didn't just abandon them. They are so afraid of reprisal from the smugglers they will not identify the individual or individuals they paid to bring them across the border. Those who can't afford to pay the up to $3000 fees to the coyote are required to carry packs weighing up to 70 pounds full of Marijuana. After being captured, they are transported to a Border Patrol facility, given food and water, given medical treatment if required, and submit to a fingerprint and records check. Those with criminal records are detained, the rest are transported back to the border and allowed to pass back into Mexico. This information comes from the men and women who do this job on a daily basis. I have no reason to believe it is false. Just because Obama declared the border secure didn't make it happen.

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