Attention all Liberals, Progressives or whatever else you call yourselves nowadays! Ummmm...where y'all been?

I am interested in your Freedom of Speech!

In the past I have noticed a robust participation of liberals and other political minorities in the comment sections of Hubbers who write from a conservative perspective. Since the rollout of the Affordable Care Act however I have also noticed a stark difference in that participation...like it is practically non-existent.

I thought this was probably because since the roll out there has been tremendous publicity surrounding it and President Obama's 37+ episodes of the same mis-spoken words. I am concerned that liberals feel that they cannot express their opinions anymore about President Obama or his signature healthcare plan without fear of being pummeled by conservatives with remarks like "I told you so," etc.

But after thinking about it I came to the conclusion that I really don't know that and shouldn't assume anything without hearing the other side's opinion.

Obama's 'Liberal Agenda?' - Charles Kesler 2009

"Barack Obama and the Crisis of American Liberalism" by Charles Kesler 2012

So I am asking YOU LIBERALS to NOW voice your opinions about the Obama administration and the Affordable Care act in a protected comment forum on this hub page. I will not approve any comments from conservatives or comments that are critical of liberals, liberalism or the progressive movement. I just want to give you a forum in which you can have your say the way you see it without any criticism and as long as the comments are on topic (Obama's administration and the Affordable Care Act or political persuasions in general) and from liberals (or any other political persuasion besides Republican or conservative) I will not delete them.

If you have a problem getting started I have posted a couple videos that may offer you food for thought. You can agree or disagree with what is in the videos but I strongly encourage your participation for lack of it can only lead me (and others) to conclude that as liberals (or whatever your political persuasion) who once had a lot of good things to say about President Obama's administration, his policies and the ACA you no longer have the courage of your convictions (maybe due to the recent developments) or perhaps you never really did.

Have you changed your mind about anything or just disinterested? If Obamacare fails in the end does it mean a setback for liberalism? Some say you can't spell liberalism without the word lies...is that true or are conservatives the liars? Or is lying just an integral part of all politics on both sides

So have at it liberals, make your case. No one will challenge you and perhaps you will challenge some readers by what you have to say! I've kept my words under 500 so you have all the say from here.

Conservatives and the like, respond if you wish but I may not approve your comments.:-)

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13 comments

tsadjatko profile image

tsadjatko 2 years ago from maybe (the guy or girl) next door Author

Well the last time we had a Republican President with control of congress for 6 years was Calvin Coolidge, and the rest of what LMC said makes no sense so as usual she is just making stuff up. I suppose after 6 weeks these two liberals who commented are the best liberals have to voice support for Obamacare on hub pages since the roll out so I'm closing comments now for lack of cogent answers.

Conservatives, you can be glad these two aren't on our team.


lovemychris profile image

lovemychris 2 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

We had a Republican prez and Congress for 6 yrs......their idea was privatization.....accounts administered banks, so they get their cut too.

Is this what you have in mind?


tsadjatko profile image

tsadjatko 2 years ago from maybe (the guy or girl) next door Author

Well Ms. Shrew has responded and I was going to approve her response although it was not totally on topic (no surprise there) ...but, of course, she couldn't resist showing her true colors twice more using the gutter speak Tea Party label (a group that has nothing to do with the topic at hand, and I warned her about that gutter speak).

So basically Ms. Shrew isn't interested in her viewpoint being heard, she just wants to continue to insult a grass roots movement with foul language but she ends with, and I quote :

"sanction this comment- know this, instead, mark my words ; in 3 years this Act will be known as The Affordable Care Act-not Obamacare. Why? Because it will be a success that can't be taken away. Every Republican, Tea xxxxxx, Limbaughish, Beck-man follower will never utter 'Obamacare' again. It will somehow morph back into a Republican idea where the credit will lie."

So marked ! But I don't think even a "progressive" would concede that if Obamacare was a success it would ever be called anything but Obamacare, being Obama's signature legislation. It is obvious Ms. Shrew lives to demonize Conservatives and could care less about the facts.

I wonder if we'll hear back from Ms.Shrew in three years if we have a Republican President. a Republican Congress and Obamacare has been repealed and replaced. Well, thankfully we won't have to hear from Ms. Shrew then because her "Marked Words" will still be right here in print to attest to the blind loyalty and inaccuracy of Wind Baggers like her.


tsadjatko profile image

tsadjatko 2 years ago from maybe (the guy or girl) next door Author

So you say: Let's look at -Space of Time. You know, the time between the worst horrific attack in our Era- 9-11 and the War in Iraq. Now let's explain it. We were lied to by Donald Rumsfeld. Not only that- we attacked the wrong country. We had-look it up-spent 53 billion in the manufactured Iraq War. While the Taliban living in Afghanistan, enjoyed the fact that Americans cut spending on the Afghan War- our true designers of 9-11- by 20 billion. Where is your umbrage? Fox News enjoyed this time in history-tried to make fodder out of Janine Garofalo by Bill O'Reilly-who later apologized-albeit, quietly, just how right she was. I'm sorry, so why is this President so devastating?

I say: So instead of staying on topic here you once more revert to arguing the other hub and your position is that the Republicans and Independents like O’Reilly (a media commentator) deserve the credit for "taking dishonest and fraudulent political practices and policies to levels never before imagined"? And so that makes it OK that Obama and the Democrats continue to expand on evil? You haven't anywhere denied anything I have said about Obama and the Democrats but you think you are refuting me by pointing to what you believe (and I’m not even going there because this is too long a comment to start) is bad behavior by others (Republicans) and that is supposed to justify the behavior of this President and the Democrats? I have to believe there are liberals out there with an ability to actually articulate a position on Obamacare and this administration after the rollout that would have a chance in hell of appealing to an objective observer instead of this tripe...I'm listening.

So you say: ....."And who would you think deserves the credit for taking dishonest and fraudulent political practices and policies to levels never before imagined?"... My Friend... Your own Party- You know, the Republicans, the Tea Baggers, or Whatever you call yourselves nowadays......

And I say: There really is no need to result to scummy labels like Tea Baggers to make any point about the topic of this hub page which is - liberalism, (or progressivism a substitute label everyone knows liberals like to switch to avoid the negative stigma which liberalism has in many quarters) Conservatives on the other hand have never changed their descriptive and wouldn't because it stands for principles that are never changing. The label of liberal or progressive, well that is another story.

If you educated yourself about The Tea Party instead of glomming onto to gutter speak from the left you’d know the Tea Party is not another word for Conservatives but it is a grass roots movement whose members range from conservative to all kinds of factions and the only thing they really have in common is smaller Government, less government intrusion into our lives.

So Ms. Shrew, how about I give you a do over, keep your comments on my other hub over there and tell us why the ACA is great and this administration is commanding your support…that is all I want to know, and it would be nice if you can support any assertions with referenced facts. Prove your point, if you have one.


tsadjatko profile image

tsadjatko 2 years ago from maybe (the guy or girl) next door Author

OK, but let's keep things on topic and in the realm of this hubpage. I'm not really interested in putting forth my point of view here and to be honest with you I have in other writings shown disrespect for President Obama and liberals in general, probably every month, every week, hell I'd say daily...it's how I cope with what I feel is the equivalent of rape. But that can be fodder for another discussion elsewhere.

And now I must answer Ms Shrew.

Well, well, Ms. Shrew,

I provided this forum to hear what liberals now think of Obamacare after its rollout and what people are experiencing because of its implementation (which has caused nearly 6 million people to lose their coverage), the administration (claimed to be the most transparent in history) because frankly since the rollout of Obamacare I haven't heard from liberals who prior to seemed to be staunch supporters of the law and this administration. To make it easy I even vowed to keep opposing views from commenting so you cannot claim you are maligned or attacked and would have free reign to make your points in support of the healthcare law or the administration.

Instead I get you who really has nothing to say about this hub's topic but drags another Hub Page of mine over here to try and divert the discussion here to racism, the blame game or other matters but having nothing to do with why liberalism, re: Obamacare and this administration, is working...I expect an intelligent presentation of facts that support your views but all I get from you is meaningless rhetoric, distortion and questions. So because you asked questions of me directly in your comment I will answer them but what I am looking for is answers from liberals, not questions. You really missed the boat by commenting on my other hub on this hub and I wonder why you didn't put your comments over there because you are way off the topic of this hub and if you want to stay off topic here I warn you I will not approve your comment...OK, this is going to be long multi comment, and the first and last one of this sort on this hub page.

So you say:

I am truly stumped. One of your Hubs- and I quote; ' Although racketeering exists in America today an even more insidious and repugnant "racket" has rapidly evolved in American politics from it's infancy of simply making promises (that won't be kept) to get elected into carefully planned and orchestrated LIES by candidates for office, elected officials and their appointees who are operating as a structured group (the Democrat Party). And who would you think deserves the credit for taking dishonest and fraudulent political practices and policies to levels never before imagined? Why credit has to go to our Nobel Peace Prize winner, first black (well half black) American president, divider in chief and Messiah to the masses, Barack Hussein Obama....' -So forgive me for not chewing on your Bait and swallowing....

I don't know how you can sum-mate that Progressives have hunkered down in some hole, covered ourselves in misery soil and molded.

I say: I thought I summated it very clearly in the portion of "The Baracketeers" from which you quoted "carefully planned and orchestrated LIES by candidates for office, elected officials and their appointees who are operating as a structured group (the Democrat Party)." To answer your question that's how.

So you say: What battle do you think we have lost? The website for ACA? A website is NOT an ACT. If Clara Barton, in 1881, founded the International Red Cross, and the internet- clearly, was about eighty years from fruition- does that mean we really didn't have a Red Cross?

I say: I never said anywhere you lost any battle so I'd appreciate it if you didn't put words in my mouth and I don't consider a failed website any kind of battle, just pure governmental incompetence ...the government lost the battle over incompetence long before Obamacare was passed so what has happened was totally predicted and expected - exactly why Federal Government can't run national healthcare. If you think the website was bad you have a rude awakening coming as the rest of Obamacare is rolled out. Maybe you'd like to be one of the many families who reported today, one week before Christmas that the Insurance companies have debited their checking accounts without permission leaving them with negative balances of up to $900 as reported.

In wondering why I no longer find liberals defending Obamacare and the Obama administration like they were on Hub Pages before the rollout what I asked was (and I quote myself) "Have you (liberals) changed your mind about anything or just disinterested? If Obamacare fails in the end does it mean a setback for liberalism? Didn't say anything has failed or any battle was lost.

So you say: Let's zoom a few years ahead....Did you know Romney-care had some glitches? They sure did, only a few hundred signed up-at first. However, it's governing body didn't falter, they instead, remained on course. It is a very popular program. Also enjoyed? They didn't have a Political Party's black balling, ramrodding, and general obstructing.

I say: I think you are confused, the only blackballing, ramrodding and obstruction that occurred was when the Democrats blackballed the Republicans obstructing every suggestion they had for the law, telling them they were the liars when they said you won't be able to keep your doctor or your health plan when all along, and it is proven now, that was the LIE OF THE YEAR and there is no question the law was ramrodded down the throats of Americans who in every pole were against it and not one Republican was for it either. Any political analyst will tell you that laws that do not have bipartisan support are historically bad laws.

So you say: I'm sure you really don't want anything reflecting common sense and logical thinking on this hub- just activity- but I will give you the aforementioned objections anyway.

I say: You are sure? how is that? I make no money from my hubs and only posted this hub page to hear the other side's take. I made this hub to get the other side's view and even banned opposing views from interfering with your expression of your viewpoints so that you couldn't claim you weren't being heard or treated properly. I thought if liberals had the courage of their convictions they'd still be out here defending Obamacare and the administration but frankly I don't see it happening, not like it was a year ago...So you are sure I "don't want anything reflecting common sense and logical thinking on this hub" Maybe you are right. It appears if that was what I wanted I shouldn't have invited liberals to comment unopposed.

So you say: Are you bothered by the man's race? There is a definite emphasis you stated in the previous Hub, that he is half black. Does that bother or inflame you enough to mention his genetic make-up?

I say: Why is it so often liberals can never have a discussion without calling on the race card? I never referenced his race in this hub but the only reason I did elsewhere is because you people insist he is black when in reality he isn't, his mother was white. If his skin color happened to be white (as mixed racial marriages can have white children) I doubt anyone on the left would even call him a black man. To me his race doesn't matter, I just like to keep the record straight. Just a simple fact which to some on the left like Al Sharpton who has said Obama isn't an authentic black man have mentioned also.


lovemychris profile image

lovemychris 2 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

It saves money--10 yr projected big saving.

Sick people are expensive---Obamacare focuses on prevention.

No, I cant link-on tablet, dont know how.

The info is easy enough to get....and I suspect you repeat what you hear, too.

Odds are, we have very different sources.

I see the big picture my way, too.

I see people paying into a pool which makes healthcare affordable for all.

Now. If we could get rid of insurance companies, that would be ideal.

And yes definately, respect is earned.

You have not insulted me, or refered to our prez as Obongo, Obummer, Obammy---so you have mine.


tsadjatko profile image

tsadjatko 2 years ago from maybe (the guy or girl) next door Author

Thanks for making that clear about cons going to hell and I want to make it clear I never said you said that - I said people which I think covers the people you meant.

On being respectful - it sounds like you believe that if anyone else is disrespectful then it is OK for you to be disrespectful, actually it is expected...I get your point, I think many people feel that way. Many people also feel that to be shown respect it has to be earned or at least deserved.

There are a lot of things about life that are inhumane and I agree with you on that. My father died of Prostate cancer too. I actually was able to get him into a clinical trial for a cancer cure (only because I was a stockbroker and involved with financing the company whose product was in clinical trials) in his last months but it was too late for him to receive any benefit from it. Some in the clinical saw startling results. It hurt that we got our hopes up a little but it was not his destiny.

If you want to make a case for Obamacare isn't there a better way than suggesting that ACA could have saved your father but then admitting that you don't know if it would have been any better? You say you know people with cancer can no longer be denied coverage, and there is no cap. Can you cite me a link or something that says that about Obamacare because I have never read that but I have read that you may not be able to keep your doctor or keep getting the same treatment you were getting for a pre-existing condition.

I see why you feel strongly about something like healthcare but I think there is so much more to the big picture of the Affordable Care Act that you are not seeing the forest for the trees.


lovemychris profile image

lovemychris 2 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

Its about more humane treatment in the context of for-profit providers.

If it was your father, or child, im sure you would see the inhumanity of letting them die due to lack of funds.


lovemychris profile image

lovemychris 2 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

You know, I didnt mention cons going to hell, I said those who fight the ACA.

And on a serious note--if you expect me to be respectful, you really should demand it of yourselves. Read new question about Hussein Obama, and your gal Cassies response, then come tell me about bashing.

My father had prostate cancer, and a doctor had a procedure that was working, but obviously not "insurance company approved".

Had he had 70k to spare.......who knows.

And who knows if ACA would have helped? But I do know people with cancer can no longer be denied coverage, and they can no longer cap the coverage. To me--this never should be an issue in the first place.

I also know ACA makes insurance company use 84% (?) For actual services rendered, not flying into some ceos pocket.


Irish Shrew profile image

Irish Shrew 2 years ago from Midwest

I am truly stumped. One of your Hubs- and I quote; ' Although racketeering exists in America today an even more insidious and repugnant "racket" has rapidly evolved in American politics from it's infancy of simply making promises (that won't be kept) to get elected into carefully planned and orchestrated LIES by candidates for office, elected officials and their appointees who are operating as a structured group (the Democrat Party). And who would you think deserves the credit for taking dishonest and fraudulent political practices and policies to levels never before imagined?

Why credit has to go to our Nobel Peace Prize winner, first black (well half black) American president, divider in chief and Messiah to the masses, Barack Hussein Obama....'

-So forgive me for not chewing on your Bait and swallowing....

I don't know how you can sum-mate that Progressives have hunkered down in some hole, covered ourselves in misery soil and molded.

What battle do you think we have lost? The website for ACA? A website is NOT an ACT. If Clara Barton, in 1881, founded the International Red Cross, and the internet- clearly, was about eighty years from fruition- does that mean we really didn't have a Red Cross?

Let's zoom a few years ahead....Did you know Romney-care had some glitches? They sure did, only a few hundred signed up-at first. However, it's governing body didn't falter, they instead, remained on course. It is a very popular program. Also enjoyed? They didn't have a Political Party's black balling, ramrodding, and general obstructing.

I'm sure you really don't want anything reflecting common sense and logical thinking on this hub- just activity- but I will give you the aforementioned objections anyway.

Are you bothered by the man's race? There is a definite emphasis you stated in the previous Hub, that he is half black. Does that bother or inflame you enough to mention his genetic make-up?

Let's look at -Space of Time. You know, the time between the worst horrific attack in our Era- 9-11 and the War in Iraq. Now let's explain it. We were lied to by Donald Rumsfeld. Not only that- we attacked the wrong country. We had-look it up-spent 53 billion in the manufactured Iraq War. While the Taliban living in Afghanistan, enjoyed the fact that Americans cut spending on the Afghan War- our true designers of 9-11- by 20 billion. Where is your umbrage? Fox News enjoyed this time in history-tried to make fodder out of Janeane Garofalo by Bill O'Reilly-who later apologized-albeit, quietly, just how right she was.

I'm sorry, so why is this President so devastating?.....

" And who would you think deserves the credit for taking dishonest and fraudulent political practices and policies to levels never before imagined?"...

My Friend... Your own Party- You know, the Republicans, the Tea Baggers, or Whatever you call yourselves nowadays......


Old Poolman profile image

Old Poolman 2 years ago from Rural Arizona

lovemychris - Very sorry to hear about the loss of your father particularly if the loss could have been prevented.

Unfortunately, Obamacare did nothing to eliminate the need for greedy insurance companies as they are still part of the plan. Even under Obamcare the CEO's of these companies will still get their huge annual bonus, paid for by the policy holders. There will still be limits on what they are willing to pay to save the life of any individual.

Other than raising the cost of medical insurance to the majority of citizens, I just can't see where Obamacare accomplished much of anything. Time will tell but I just don't get a warm fuzzy feeling from what I have seen so far.

As long as insurance companies are still involved in our healthcare, not much will change except most of us will be paying more. The ACA was rushed through, poorly planned, and the rollout has been a disaster.

The motives behind ACA were more political than a genuine concern for the citizens of this country having healthcare. Other countries have healthcare systems that seem to be working and are liked by most. Why didn't we examine these systems before writing these laws that still allow for greed by the insurance companies? The need to overhaul our system was real but the plan only made it more expensive and upsetting to the majority of our citizens.

I'll gladly take my hot seat in hell because you will never convince me this much needed reform has been anything but a disaster.


Old Poolman profile image

Old Poolman 2 years ago from Rural Arizona

I have been hearing this strange noise lately and now know that strange noise is silence. All but the "blame Bush" group seem to have taken an extended vacation. The few that do comment point to some event from the past or play the race card. None have actually presented any facts or meaningful content in defense of Obamacare or the rollout failure.

I have yet to read a single comment regarding a success story about signing up for Obamacare. Everyone I have talked to in person is still in shock over what they will now pay for coverage. I guess it must be difficult for even a progressive to defend this monster now that the results are facts.


lovemychris profile image

lovemychris 2 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

Well, me personally, get deleted by cons, so why bother? You dont seem to want discussion, just agreement and liberal-bashing.

But ill try again:

My fathet might be alive today if we had ACA back in 2006. 70,000 dollars could have saved him, and his insurance wouldnt pay. I think its a disgrace that we let insurance companies allow people to die for greed.

The ACA is a godsend for many, and the ones who derail it deserve a hot seat in hell.

Now delete away, freedom-lover.

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