CHARLES MANSON, Still Alive and Ranting

Manson in Younger Days
Manson in Younger Days
"Charley," in all his spooky glory in the late '60's
"Charley," in all his spooky glory in the late '60's
Some of Charley's followers...members of The Manson Family
Some of Charley's followers...members of The Manson Family

Everybody knows "Charley."

The only thing you have to do, is say the name. Where ever you are, to whomever you speak, the name, "Charles Manson," strikes immediate recognition. Charley is infamous.

In California, during the late '60's, Charles Manson had a mission. Like a pied piper, he gathered devoted followers, who eventually became known as his "Family." Little did they know, they would soon become our country's most evil and hated family.

Charley wasn't just an ordinary man. If you asked him, he would boast of all his many talents and attributes. After all, Charley was a charismatic, extraordinary man with a vision of the world as none before him. Charley was a holy man who eloquently quoted the Bible. He was soft-spoken and oozed with great love for all mankind. His family adored him. In fact, they worshipped him as the Savior, Jesus Christ.

A Few Facts Go a Long Way.

Born on November 12th,1934 in Cincinnati, Ohio, to 16 year-old Kathleen Maddox, the baby boy's birth certificate read, "no name Maddox," for the first few months of his life. At some point thereafter, Kathleen gave her son the name, Charles Milles Manson, borrowing this surname from her new husband, William Manson.

Thus began little Charley's life of instability, void of love, comfort or any semblence of normalcy. Due to Mommy's numerous stays in prisons, for as many crimes, son Charley was tossed from family member to foster home to institutions. By the young age of 12, Charley had become far too street-wise, desperate and bitter. He wanted out of the juvenile system. He yearned for freedom and he took it.

Throughout his adolescence, Charley lived on the streets, doing whatever necessary, to survive. Along the way, he learned well, how to steal, lie and manipulate anyone who crossed his path. He had a dream. To become a musician was a near-obsession for Charley, as he strummed his prized guitar, wrote songs and sang to passers-by who tossed their coins to him.

The Beatles were Charley's idols. He had an especially daunting devotion to them, in particular their White Album, on which was the song, Helter Skelter. It was in the words of Helter Skelter, Charley fantasized a code, describing a future war between two races.......between the whites and blacks of our country.

Actress Sharon Tate
Actress Sharon Tate
Manson stood 5'2"
Manson stood 5'2"

Charley Could Mesmerize.....

Charley's life on the streets gave him access to the young run-aways and lost souls, looking for something.....someone to accept them. The Hippie Movement of the '60's had taken hold and flower children roamed everywhere, existing in communal settings. Adopting free love and Peace to all, simple living amongst nature, music and marajuana, consumed them. The perfect setting for a self-made Guru, toting a bible, a guitar and a bag of pot. Here, he would build his church and lure his faithful sheep.

Using his methods of drugs, sex and rock 'n roll, as well as assuming a caring father-like position over his band of young drifters, Manson quickly earned their trust and loyalty. The women devoted themselves to him in an almost slave-like manner. The young men felt useful and tasted a sense of power for the first time in their lives. They were hooked and they bowed to Charley's word, as in eerie hypnotic response.

Manson told of a plan to spark his prediction of racial rioting. This riot was meant to ultimately pit whites against whites. In Charley's sick and twisted mind, the Manson Family would then rule over the Blacks of our nation.

Manson's Plan: They would brutally kill wealthy white people living in the California Valley and make certain to leave visible signs that the murders had been committed by blacks.

In the wee morning hours of August 9th, 1969, Manson drove a group of his puppets to the mansion of Film Director, Roman Polanski. In the home were actress Sharon Tate, nine months pregnant with Polanski's child, and house guests, Abigail Folger, Jay Sebring and Voytek Frykowski as well as 18 year-old Steven Parent.

These innocent, unsuspecting individuals were all fatally shot and stabbed in a brutal and bloody attack by these crazed Manson family members. In a gruesome and horrific act, even Sharon's baby was not allowed to survive.. Racial comments were scribbled on the walls in the victim's blood.

These savages hitch hiked back to the ranch where they'd been living. Manson had driven back to the ranch after dropping them off to commit the murders. Charley had no physical part in the killings...no blood on his hands.

The very next night, on August 10th, the home of Leno and Rosemary LaBianca was the scene of two more brutal and fatal stabbings. Leno & Rosemary were bound and each suffered multiple stabbings inflicted with a butcher knife, a large two-pronged fork and a bayonet. The words, "Death to Pigs" were smeared in blood, on the refrigerator door.


Manson under arrest
Manson under arrest
Manson women w/ shaved  heads in protest of Charley's  arrest
Manson women w/ shaved heads in protest of Charley's arrest
L.A. County D.A., Vicent Bugliosi
L.A. County D.A., Vicent Bugliosi

Putting the Puzzle Together

Although these murders were investigated by two separate police departments, through a series of arrests and law enforcement communications, as well as careful collection of information, local sherriff's had more than enough cause to arrest Manson and 25 family members.

Ultimately, only Charles Manson and a handful of followers were charged with the murders and stood trial for these crimes.

Fortunately, at that time, the Prosecutor was none other than the brilliant Los Angeles Distrist Attorney, Vincent Bugliosi. His genius prosecution of these brutal killers was a complete success, returning Guilty verdicts for all defendents.

Each received the Death Penalty at sentencing. However, when California's Capital Punishment was abolished, their sentences became Life.

Over the ensuing forty years, most all of these defendents have gone before the parole board a total of 12 times. Every time, each was denied parole. Even Susan Atkins, who requested release based upon mercy, due to her terminal brain cancer, has been denied.

Next week, Charles Manson himself, goes before the board for the twelfth time. During each prior plea to the Parole Board, Manson has gone into his usual rantings and ravings. He has not been a model prisoner for all these years and has been diagnosed with severe mental disorders, showing no improvement whatsoever. His dramatic lunacy before the board has merely been a waste of time at best or very poor entertainment at worst.

Charley's twelfth visit before the board next week, should prove to be no different.


The Many Spooky Faces of Charley

More by this Author


Comments 231 comments

fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 9 months ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

Peg.....No doubt, it is amazing this old guy is still breathing, well into his eighties.

I don't think we need to worry about the parole board keeping him in at this point. He's right where he needs to be with not a single reason to cut him loose. The reality is, prison is all Charly has ever known. It's literally his HOME............


PegCole17 profile image

PegCole17 9 months ago from Dallas, Texas

Fascinating recap of this story and the individual who was behind those murders. It's hard to believe he's still around. I had to do the math to figure out just how old he really is and I was stunned. It sure seems like this was in the news recently, although, it's been a while. Hard to imagine any parole board letting him out. I sure hope not.


sparkster profile image

sparkster 9 months ago from United Kingdom

Oh I'm definitely not confusing Schizophrenia and Psychopathy - they are very different indeed and are nothing alike. In fact, Schizophrenics are nothing like what I described above in any way at all really. I've worked with many of both of them over the years and have much direct experience with psychopaths both personally and professionally. I've studied psychiatry and psychology, in particular narcissism, sociopathy and psychopathy most of my life. Personality Disorders are my main area of expertise. I often get therapists and academic professionals checking out my work on the topics or coming to me for advice. Anything mind/behaviour/perception related and I'm your man.


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 10 months ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

Besarian....I thank you for such an interesting comment relating to how this tragic event played a part in your childhood & affected your family.

This is one of those things we can all recall in terms of when it happened, where & who the victims were of a murderous rampage led by Charles Manson.

It was a frightening situation. I understand your Dad being so concerned & protective of his family. I read all the books on Charlie & his "family" & of course the brutal murders. All the way on the other side of the country, in New York, I checked my doors & windows for a very long time afterward.

I appreciate your visit. Peace, Paula


Besarien profile image

Besarien 10 months ago

Before Manson we barely locked our doors- maybe at night. After this we had less freedom to play in the neighborhood and go places on our own. My dad installed huge deadlock bolts on the doors which remained locked all the time. About the same time as the trials, girls bodies started turning up partially buried in orange groves in FL where we lived. My dad was convinced the whole world was going crazy and got super protective of all of us but especially my sister and I. When it came it came out in trial that Manson was trying to implicate black folk and start a race war, I thought my dad was going to lose his mind altogether. I really don't think he was ever the same.


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 10 months ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

Sparkster.....Thank you for your thoughtful reply. All due respect, It sounds very much to me that you may be confusing "psychopath" and "Schizophrenic." There is nothing MILD about the diagnosis/behavior of a psychopath.....they have the pathology of criminals (rapists, murderers etc) The schizophrenic however presents as a brain malfunction and they are largely no threat to those around them.

In any event, I do appreciate your interest in my work. I look forward to our future interactions. Peace, Paula


sparkster profile image

sparkster 10 months ago from United Kingdom

Hmm, well. I get what you're saying, although the medical definition of a psychopath (i.e. Anti-Social Personality Disorder) is actually quite mild. Most psychopaths do not commit murder and many of them live productive lives and are largely unrecognized by society. Most of them are invisible. I know people who are diagnosed psychopaths, one of them I have known for most of my life and he has never really done anything to hurt anyone significantly and you would never know he was a psychopath unless you sat down to have a full-blown conversation with him for a good few hours - I guess in that respect Manson may have not actually been a psychopath.

I also see your point about his followers but when it comes to mind control / hypnotic control / psychological manipulation, a topic which I know inside-out like the back of my hand (and am possibly more knowledgeable about than any other person in the UK, aside from my good friend Derren Brown), the truth is that those who are intelligent and well educated or who are "academics" are much more prone to being mind-controlled than those who are uneducated or a bit dense due to the fact that intelligent people are better at following orders. Suggestibility is required for the learning process, therefore those who are not so clever are less prone to it because they are less suggestible which is why they are not so smart.

All of us are prone to psychological manipulation, it's how life itself works. People who are more prone to it are usually more intelligent, not less intelligent. Every single one of us is being manipulated by our environment, surroundings and circumstances every single day of our lives yet we hardly realize it. It doesn't make us stupid or gullible. Gullibility and suggestibility are two completely different traits.


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 10 months ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

Shyron.....What you feel has great merit. In order to avoid the devil, we must first identify who he is......Poor Charley has reached the point of complete mindlessness for years of poor living and delusional thinking. His imprisonment has taken it's toll and he now merely exists in the confines of a sick mind. In his late 80's now, he is no longer a threat to anyone but his own existence. Thanks for reading.

Man pays a price for his thoughts & deeds....with no exceptions.


Shyron E Shenko profile image

Shyron E Shenko 10 months ago

Paula, I missed this hub. It is interesting, though I am not fascinated with Manson or his minions. I prefer to stay as far away from the devil as possible, your hub was great.

Blessings and hugs.


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 19 months ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

color.....You're very wise. The minds AND hearts of this "sort" of individual, simply doesn't work like the vast majority. All the hundreds of years of study, research and groping into the deepest, darkest parts of human beings, while giving us some answers, will not ever be able to fully comprehend .

What can and does horrify the normal, healthy person....somehow can seem to the twisted like ordinary & mundane behavior. You have heard the expression, "People BORN without a conscience." This is not valid. There is a process within a person that in some way at any given point, learns to lock that conscience out entirely. Once they have done this, there is nothing to hold him/her back from any number of egregious activities.

Thanks so much for stopping by. I appreciate your input. Have a nice week-end! Peace, Paula


colorfulone profile image

colorfulone 19 months ago from Minnesota

I was young when Charles Manson and his followers did their extremely evil deeds. I do remember a lot about it from watching TV. I will never understand people like that. I heard that once a person commits murder that it transforms them within and not in a good way. But, what the hell gets people to that point to commit murder I will not ever get.

I mean most people have a crazy thought go through their mind like: 'robbing a bank', but it is so ridiculous that normal people let thoughts like that wash right over them. They don't entertain those thoughts and make plans to carry out a bank robbery.

There is darkness. There is light.


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 21 months ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

He is/was allegedly "engaged".....that's so special isn't it? But last I read the news, the marriage has been postponed, perhaps indefinitely. There's a 25 year old girl I don't want near my grandchildren. It takes all kinds to make up this big crazy world of ours.

Thanks for stopping by. I appreciate your interest in my work.


Rayne123 21 months ago

Great hub, so many stories about this guy, none of which is any good.

I watched a few interviews with him and he continues to try conning/manipulate people. He is a sociopath, he pretty much admitted it in one of his interviews. A few of them are quite funny actually.

In one interview he tells the reporter he is a nobody lol, he also says he suggested his followers kill but he never made them. He said they didn't have to do it, they had their own minds.

However, like you said he used and drugged them. Most he slept with and they were infatuated with him. (yuk)

He is a nobody really, and I think that his bible beliefs were the way he wanted to decode it not truths. To worship him as Jesus, I never get that. When Jesus comes he won't act like that and we all will see him. What's wrong with people lol

Anyway last I heard he was married and now I have not read anything else.

Great hub and well written

Blessings


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 22 months ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

Sparkster.....Manson is fairly easy to study. His capacity to "manipulate & control people" wasn't really all about him and his possible cleverness, believe me.

The people you want to do a study on are his followers. Remember, it was the '60's.....California.....hippies, run-aways & pot-smoking flower children. What you may find is a group of lost, delusional, easily-controlled individuals. They may just as likely have worshiped a baboon. None of them were academics...that's for sure.

I'll agree that Charley was a sociopath with incredible street smarts, but he doesn't qualify as a psychopath.....not in the truest sense of the medical term.

If you have not read Helter Skelter by the brilliant Vincent Bugliosi, I would highly recommend it.

Thanks for your interest in my work.


sparkster profile image

sparkster 22 months ago from United Kingdom

Sunshine625, I remember reading recently that there is a 26-year old woman who wants to marry Manson for some bizarre reason. Whether that went (or is going) ahead I have no idea.

Paula, great hub. I have a strong interest in Manson and have been doing some research into the Manson Family murders recently, as I also wish to write about it. His psychopathic capacity to manipulate and control people is akin to that of Hitler.

There's also a great (heavy) song about the Manson Family murders on Machine Head's new album. It's called Night Of Long Knives.


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 22 months ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

Double Ewwwwww! He sort of looks like a corpse, just the way he is.....alive. Then again, brain dead counts!


Sunshine625 profile image

Sunshine625 22 months ago from Orlando, FL

LOL! She obviously isn't as smart as you. Can't believe she shared her grand plans. We could have planned a road trip to view his body! Ewww!


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 22 months ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

Ya know GF, I hate it when some ordinary schmuck steals my ideas! She obviously doesn't understand Charley like I do. All she had to do was ask him to leave her his body. He'd have loved nothing better than to know she wanted to stuff him and display him in a glass case, forever more.

He's an ego maniac and publicity hound....not mention a total nut case!

Drat! Foiled again! LOL


Sunshine625 profile image

Sunshine625 22 months ago from Orlando, FL

Well it seems like Charlie is once again a single man. I emailed you the link. His fiancé was a wicked woman, but not as wicked as Charles.


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 22 months ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

Thanks so much!!


Lady Guinevere profile image

Lady Guinevere 22 months ago from West Virginia

Yes, It is a series of hubs since they were so long. The first one is: http://ladyguinevere.hubpages.com/hub/My-Perfect-L...


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 22 months ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

OH...OK.....at leas I was right that the familiar story involved YOU......Have you made this into a Hub?


Lady Guinevere profile image

Lady Guinevere 22 months ago from West Virginia

Yes, I did a story about my friend who is incarderated. There were no interviews with that. It is his story that he gave me to post.


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 22 months ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

LG......Do I have you confused with someone else? Aren't you doing a story about inmates? Sorry if I'm wrong.


Lady Guinevere profile image

Lady Guinevere 22 months ago from West Virginia

No, this was a fw years ago and was on the news. Sorry you missed it.

What interviews?


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 22 months ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

L.G.........LOL! Yes this IS an old hub and Charley is an OLD man but still hangin in there.

I don't know where you saw any info about him having been let out of prison, once sentenced....impossible. His original sentence was the Death Penalty until California commuted all DP's to Life.

It's possible there were mobs outside the prison in the beginning of his Trial, but they weren't there for autographs......How are your interviews coming along??


Lady Guinevere profile image

Lady Guinevere 22 months ago from West Virginia

Well this is an old hub! Charley needs to die. Althought I read in the comment that he did not kill anyone....no he did not but he Ordered his people to kill someone and that was the most horrific things that they did.

Oh and he was no "ordinary" person either. I think they did let him out once but they got him to the outside gates and there was a mob there so they took him back into the prison. If they ever let him out he would be shot on sight.


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 22 months ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

Well peach.....you've just given away your age.....if you have no idea who Charley Manson is nor anything about him...LOL

Yes, he certainly did get life. In fact he actually was sentenced to death until California abolished the Death sentence and his sentence was converted to Life.

He's in his '80's still behind bars.........


peachpurple profile image

peachpurple 22 months ago from Home Sweet Home

oh, this guy looks like a criminal, did he get life sentence?


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 2 years ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

Linda.......I'd go a bit beyond the word "crazy," girlfriend. This pathetic little girl has major issues that don't even have a diagnosis yet. It's not even something I want to attempt to figure out.

Life is grand, Linda. Every day we find newer bigger meaning to the phrase...."It takes all kinds....."


lrc7815 profile image

lrc7815 2 years ago from Central Virginia

Just had to revisit this awesome hub. Can you believe this monster is making the news again with a marriage? She's got be as crazy as he is. lol


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 2 years ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

I see. Well, it's probably a very short invitation that says: "Be there or be dead."


Sunshine625 profile image

Sunshine625 2 years ago from Orlando, FL

I don't think he sent the invites out yet...


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 2 years ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

Oh darn....and I wasn't invited? I'm hurt. See if I send Charley anymore cookies!


Sunshine625 profile image

Sunshine625 2 years ago from Orlando, FL

Did you hear the latest...he's getting married to a 26 yr old frequent visitor!


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 2 years ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

always....I think it's fair to say that Charley is a little man with some big mental issues who made himself an infamous individual in all the wrong ways. Thanks for reading!


always exploring profile image

always exploring 2 years ago from Southern Illinois

Wow, this was an interesting read. I remember when this happened, scary. His mistreatment at birth surely done some emotional damage. Interesting hub...


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 2 years ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

Yes, Cesky....Charley has the tendency to make one's blood run cold. He seems to have become more and more psychotic as he ages.......but then, we shouldn't be surprised. Thanks for stopping by.


Cesky profile image

Cesky 2 years ago from Nairobi

I've watched many of his youtube videos and I get the chills each and every time. Great hub.


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 2 years ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

Billrrrr......I like the way your mind works. Losing his identity would pain him terribly....He's always been a totally lost soul, but he just never realized it. Amazing he keeps breathing our air, isn't it?


Billrrrr profile image

Billrrrr 2 years ago from Cape Cod

I have spoken with you (on Hubpages) before about murder and punishment and I agonize over people like this soul-less creature. After a long wrestling match with myself about appropriate punishments, I have come up with one that I favor. Along with his sentence of life in prison, the monster should be stripped of his identity. He should never be referred to by name. He should only be identified by a number. In fact, I think we should legally change his name to "Prisoner 1917". He forfeited his membership in the human race. He has no right to a human name.


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 2 years ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

C.E.......Oh, he's an evil individual, to say the least....also as Looney as can be.....Cuckoo. Brainwashing is a very real thing, no doubt. At some point in our lives, in one way or another, we have been subjected to forms of brainwashing, whether we realize this or not. And you are correct, C.E....it would require a novel to truly "get into" particular topics...

Yes, Charlie is in his 80's.....and who the hell knows how he continues to kick, scream and use up California's tax dollars....but he does. He's also not the Lone Ranger in this regard. Each State pays an absurd amount of the "people's money" to keep low-life's fed, housed and babysat.

Thanks for stopping by my MOST-viewed Hub. We humans do have our strange fascinations....I know....I'm one of them...


Au fait profile image

Au fait 2 years ago from North Texas

I have my opinions about Charley, the death penalty, and our legal system, but I won't share them here. For one thing, HP limits the words allowed in the comments section and this would require a novel.

I read the book Helter Skelter when I was a teenager. It was very gruesome and horrible to say the least. Charlie's 'family' did unbelievably horrible things to their victims. They did pretty horrible things at 'home' together too, with the women performing fellatio on dogs. That testifies to how well Charlie could control them all -- they did whatever he told them to do.

There are ways to brainwash people and then they are no longer in control of themselves. It happens to well educated people and often to people who believe it can't happen to them. Lots of people have utilized brainwashing. Jim Jones, Hitler, David Koresh, and Charlie Manson, just to name a few.

Manson is filled with evil, no doubt about it. He must be about 80 years old now, so his time is nearly done. Anyway, good job.


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 2 years ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

I can easily understand why many people believe Manson "deserves no mercy." However, this opinion is a bit after the fact and late in coming.

California has housed & fed Charley for decades now. Unless he commits another felony while imprisoned, his "Life" sentence will remain until poor old Charley closes his eyes for the last time.

Thank you for your interest as well as your comment. I have just read your impressive Bio and scrolled your list of hubs, which are very inviting. I see I must find time to read some of them.....


MG Singh profile image

MG Singh 2 years ago from Singapore

Nice post. Manson escaped death by a lacuna inlaw. However he deserves no mercy and maybe the best course would be still to execute him. I don't see why taxpayers should pay for him to live on.


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 2 years ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

Jodah & Wesman.......When I thought about it afterwards......where the hoax claimed that he was granted parole because of "over-crowding"...I should have known immediately it was a hoax. The reality is, for Charley........they'd build him his own prison to keep him locked up.


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 2 years ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

I was in Total & Complete SHOCK over the "HOAX." These poor people need a hobby or a job...or maybe just a life. Spending time on Hoaxes.....What a fabulous career!


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 2 years ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

His next parole hearing isn't until 2027.....at which time the darling man will be 93. If still alive, my money will be on "Sorry Charley, NO dice.".....


Sunshine625 profile image

Sunshine625 2 years ago from Orlando, FL

It's an internet hoax...I got conned by a con...but on the bright side, Paula's hub got a few more hits! :)

http://investorplace.com/2014/06/charles-manson-ho...


Wesman Todd Shaw profile image

Wesman Todd Shaw 2 years ago from Kaufman, Texas

hehehe, have you seen the new webpages about his parole? Don't fall for those shenanigans


Jodah profile image

Jodah 2 years ago from Queensland Australia

WTF? Really Sunshine, I hadn't heard....wow! That's what happens when they lock up too many people for trivial things...they have to let out the real criminals.


Sunshine625 profile image

Sunshine625 2 years ago from Orlando, FL

Hey Effer, Did you hear that Manson has been granted parole?!? Prisons in California are overcrowded and he got a Free Pass and doesn't have to Pass Go! WTF!? Hopefully he got so excited when he heard the news that he dropped dead!!


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 2 years ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

Jodah....It just so happens that you have chosen to read my most viewed hub! I get dozens per day on this hub, just under my hub on "Karma".......is that ironic or what?

Charley is still alive and ranting, just like my Title says. Crazy as it seems.....he gains new, younger followers as the years go by. The only ones who ignore him, avoid him and wish they'd never met him........are those members of his "Family" who have spent their wasted lives behind bars.

He looks crazy and he acts crazy.....He seems to ramble on and rant a whole lot. BUT...in all fairness, every once in a while Charley says something that makes a little sense.

He's just a pathetic character at 80.......keeps on kickin!...LOL


Jodah profile image

Jodah 2 years ago from Queensland Australia

Hi Paula, I know you wrote this hub two years ago and I have just found it now, but it's good for old hubs to get new traffic. I was 12 when these murders occurred, and can still remember it like yesterday it had such a dramatic effect on me. These were the most horrendous murders I had ever heard of at the time (even on the other side of the world). I seem drawn to watch any program about Manson and saw 'Helter Skelter' recently. It seems, even at 80 Charles Manson still has some crazy power to get people's attention. I haven't heard anywhere that he has died yet and I think that would be big news if it had occurred. This is a very interesting hub. Voted up.


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 3 years ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

There are numerous tales told, and retold by many individuals, both informed and otherwise, in terms of Charley, his "family," and the 2 nights of their murderous rampage.

I have read every last thing written, to include the court transcript, when Manson himself was tried for mass murder & as a serial killer, with the one and only Vincent Bugliosi, as Lead Prosecutor.

Charley "bragged" from time to time, wanting to impress and/or intimidate his family members.....and spoke of murders he had committed. He claimed they were "justifiable" killings because the victims had attempted to kill him or steal from him......According to Charley, these victims wound up buried in the desert.

He refused, however, to admit to any part of the actual murders in the Tate/LaBianca cases. As far as is known, not a one of his devoted family members, implicated Charley. However, Bugliosi was able to convince 12 people to find Charley Guilty of multiple murders and sentenced to death....which, of course, is precisely what should have happened......Thank you for reading and commenting. Good to hear from you...


Rayne123 3 years ago

HI there, great hub

However in this documentary it said that Manson actually did kill one family because he was angry at this family for a "messy" killing so he had to show them how it was done.

It also stated that the youngest "family" members "woke out of the trans if you want to call it that and went to the cops about the whole thing. She was let off or cut a deal or something. She also went into hiding after that, don't know why since the charges were already laid, but not sure what happened there.

It seemed to miss out quite a few parts.

thank you

Laurie


Cantuhearmescream profile image

Cantuhearmescream 3 years ago from New York

Great... I might as well face it I'm addicted to love... chocolate and HP ;-)

Ha... too funny and boy can I relate. There are some nights (or mornings) that I hear the coffee start brewing and I hadn't made it to bed yet! I can't sleep in either because I have those dang kids to get up for school :-)

I just spent the last 2 hours on the phone with my brother from W. Virginia and 20 HP tabs open, having a panic attack because I couldn't listen to him and respond to hubs, now I have this horrible feeling of being behind. Gee...


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fpherj48 3 years ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

Cat....you are too sweet. Thank you.......

No, I'm afraid that although there is help available for 98% of addictions, HP falls into the 2%, along with love and chocolate. No cure. On the other hand, speaking for myself, "hubber's burnout," is not only possible, but in my Heavy Duty Hubbing days, I experienced burnout, each night, after about 8 hrs, with my butt in the chair and my little fingertips on the keys. All that's needed to clear that up, is a halfway good night's sleep. First thing in the morning, you make coffee with one hand and turn the computer on, with the other........it's hopeless.


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Cantuhearmescream 3 years ago from New York

Paula,

Drats, I was hoping that I would find help with my addiction in time, oh well. What about hubber's burnout? Can that ever happen?

You're right, I guess it's a part of life, but it doesn't make it easy. I can tell you're loved very much by a lot of people here, so you should never feel alone! (Of course, unless you want to for a bit :-)


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fpherj48 3 years ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

HEY....my "guess" about your name was accurate! Sorry to tell you, but there is no cure for the hub addiction. You'll get used to dealing with it.. We are all guilty. There have been some pretty funny hubs and/or comments written here, about what we all know to be our "addiction." I agree with you that there's this nagging feeling of "neglect," when we are away for too long.

Thank you for your kind words, Cat. I am blessed with an amazing support system of family and friends......one foot in front of the other. None of us are exempt from having to deal with loss. Peace.


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Cantuhearmescream 3 years ago from New York

Paula

Yes, Catherine is my name, but people call me Cat, you can call me Cat, Cathy, Cath or Catherine; call me anything you’d like but don’t call me late for dinner! :-)

I saw “Paula” and I even think “Effer” somewhere, but I don’t like offending people calling them by their “real name” until they start using it with me, or if I’ve been corresponding with them for a while. Gee, does that sound backward “I don’t like calling people by their real name”? :-)

I am so sorry to hear about your husband and I will keep you in my prayers as I’m sure this time is still difficult. I can’t imagine what it must have been like to lose your husband at all, but to lose him suddenly and then to have the hassle of “getting things together” in such a sad time. I know you are a strong woman and I’m sure you’ll make it through, but we’re all here for you if/when you need us.

Yes, I am a little concern about my addiction to HP; I often joke that I should be in some kind of an Overhubbers Anonymous group or something. My kids are starting to not recognize me anymore and now refer to me as “lady in front of the computer”. First, I have to say, with the exception of a couple of rude people that occasionally come out of the woodwork, I have fallen in love with so many people here. I have never had such an intimate or personal situation on the internet than I have with HP. I feel an obligation to this place and these people. If I am gone, unexpectedly, longer than I had anticipated, I actually get anxious about it. I feel that I’m “leaving people hanging”. I do need to find a happy medium though; I went to bed this morning after 4:00 and had to be up at 6:00 to get my son off to school… the culprit… HubPages.

I am grateful for HP, a lot of people see it as a money maker… and I certainly won’t turn any away, but there are people here, that I’ve met, that I would’ve otherwise never known.

I’m glad I’ve found you and you’ll be seeing plenty of me. You do what you’ve got to do to keep sane and get through this unbelievably hard time, your friends will all understand! Peace to you!

Cat


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fpherj48 3 years ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

CantU......I see the word "Cat" next to your Hub Name......is that your real name, or rather, nickname? "Cat," as in short for Catherine, or a similar name? I always like to use my fellow hubbers real name when possible. BTW, mine is "Paula," although, I have been dubbed "Effer," by all of my close buddies here.....(It's a long story, but "Sunshine 625 aka as Linda," hung that one on me and it took off) So, you can call me either.

Yes, I have been away for about 3 months, Cat. My husband passed away suddenly, on Feb 11th.......so my life was sort of turned upside down, for awhile. I'm coming along in baby steps. My hubby, "Jim," had a flourishing business and thus it's been hectic. I had so much to take care of, in contacting his clients, and getting their files, etc...to them, and helping them on their way to an alternative means to complete their business. Things are slowly falling into place for me.....but there is lots more to do, in terms of my own life too.

I'm poking my nose into HP, every once in a while when I find myself MISSING everyone. As I'm sure you are discovering......HP quickly becomes a big part of our lives and we get "addicted." I am hoping to get back into the Hub community, full time, in the near future. In the meantime, I'm reaching out here and there, to stay somewhat connected and say, "Hey," to my buddies. HP has some of the most amazing people in the world.....We get close to one another. It's nice to have you, as a new friend......Peace.


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Cantuhearmescream 3 years ago from New York

fpherj48,

Aw, I'm honored and I hadn't know you were away, but I sure am glad your back! I'm anxious to get to those other hubs of yours but my ADHD-like personality gets in my way :-)

MichaelJohnMele,

Thanks buddy, you're a doll... more like a Ken doll, but a doll nonetheless! Yes, fpherj48 is great, I'm lucky I stumbled upon her and I'm glad to see you know this little gem of a hubber too!

fpherj48,

Hi, I'm back :-)

I was actually watching Biography the other night and they covered Manson. They said that he couldn't have come at a better time (or a worse time, depending on how you look at it). Everyone was looking for a passion and direction and anyone who had anything to preach was sure to gain followers. These were no doubt, some lost people who had become incapable of thinking for themselves. Though none of that makes it any easier to sleep at night. There will always be lost people, waiting to follow someone. I guess we just gotta keep our eyes out for these nut jobs before the gain followers... and now with twitter and facebook we migh be screwed :-) "Followers"... get it?


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 3 years ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

Michael, my sweet friend....(you will give me a big head!....but then, I suppose it will match my Big asset.).......I am unable to emphasize strongly enough, my disappointment and distress, in individuals so lost, confused and disconnected, that they easily fall prey to any sort of sick mind control. Certainly, when it should be clear and obvious to a sane, moderately intelligent being.....that the person and/or concept, pulling you in, is a bona-fide nut job. I don't get it, never have.

Back during all the Manson fury, I vividly recall wishing I could meet and talk with some of the young, female family members/devotees, who became totally brainless and helpless, under his alleged "spell."

I look at Charley, and "vomit," comes to mind.....I listen to his looney- toon rants.....and laugh hysterically, in disbelief. Go figure.....and the young, strapping men, who did the bidding of a "runt," who was all of 5'2"--125lbs......not some threateningly HUGE beast of a man.......but a little rodent.

It takes all kinds....and yes, there have been numerous like Charley (Koresh, Jones...) and of course, they continue to live, breathe, breed and spread amongst us.

Your question: "When will people learn ...to think for themselves?" The way you asked this, gave me a light bulb moment, Michael. I think the answer is in your question! PEOPLE CAN ONLY LEARN...when they think for themselves!........ya think so too?


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MichaelJohnMele 3 years ago from Seffner, Florida

@fpherj48 the really scary thing is when the next "Manson" shows up...and leads all these mindless sheep into doing some other crazy thing. When will people learn...to think for themselves.

@Cantuhearmescream isn't fpherj48 great? One of the great things about Hub Pages is all the cool people around here...like fpherj48...and of course you too Cantuhearmescream.


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 3 years ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

Thanks for engaging me with your interest! This sort of thing is precisely what I need to get myself BACK into full-time hubbing. I know I've been away for nearly 3 months, but, in my own defense, I have been ultra busy and occupied with important matters......

You've inspired me! Bless your heart.


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Cantuhearmescream 3 years ago from New York

fpherj48,

You're right... I guess that doesn't have to make us bad :-)

Thanks for the interesting hub!


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 3 years ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

Right......and people are still lining up at the tent entrance to see the Freak side shows.....Morbid curiosity. We all have it, to some degree. Hopefully, we use our talents and wisdom in beneficial ways.....rather than to perpetuate the unacceptable! Great interaction here Cantu....thanks for your interest!


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Cantuhearmescream 3 years ago from New York

fpherj48,

You're right, which is a little offsetting because then that just means we like to watch crazy people :-0

There are so many factors, I'm sure. I just wish the factors that we can control, like a child's home environment, we would be more cautious with.

I'm sure his trinkets don't equate to much more than a bin full of honey buns ;-) It's crazy to see how much attention he still gets, decades later and locked away.


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 3 years ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

Cantu.....If it could ever be known, for certain, "what makes a killer?"....I'd say that would be right up there with a cure for cancer or diabetes, etc.....the reality is, it is so many, many things, as I'm sure you realize. Do I believe that Charley simply chose one day, to be evil? No, of course not. There is a compassionate part of all of us who feel for the little, abandoned, lonely & abused little boy Charley was.....but what became of him, we can all merely speculate, by putting pieces of a very complex puzzle together.

I think I had heard about people buying trinkets that he makes.....but guess what? He can only spend the money in the prison canteen.....sad, huh?......There are hundreds of thousands....maybe millions of Charleys in our world. We need to hold hands and stay safe!!


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Cantuhearmescream 3 years ago from New York

fpherj48,

I think we all want to know what makes a killer a killer. Why do people do the things they do? I think we hope that if we understand it we can change it. Especially times like these, hate and killing, neglect and abuse are on an upswing, understanding why or how it has come to this creates hope.

I watched a prison program a couple of months ago that showed footage of Manson making spiders and other insect trinket-like things out of hair. It was kind of gross but somewhat interesting. People may a lot of money for his "creations".


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 3 years ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

Cantu....LOL.....I don't know if ANYTHING about Charley is actually worth knowing.....however, for the record, in 2 years, this hub continues to hold the record as my most visited hub (in the thousands).

I guess that says something about "public interest" in ole Charley. Exactly why Freak Shows are so popular?? Thanks for the visit, comment and follow! It will be nice to get to know one another better.


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Cantuhearmescream 3 years ago from New York

fpherj48,

Thank you for making my morning coffee conversation much more interesting than usual :-) Wow, I guess there was a lot I didn't know about Charles Manson. He is a sick son of a gun, but it's almost sad if you think about how his childhood was probably a huge contributing factor to the kind of person he became. It's too bad that there are so many neglected and abused kids today that have the potential to grow up to be some version of a wacko, especially in the ugly place and time we're living.

I didn't think there was anything else "worth knowing" about Charles Manson, but this was an excellent read!

Voted up and interesting!


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 3 years ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

sid......you are correct on both counts.....and in fact, most people are certain Charley had several murders on his resume...but it didn't seem to matter enough to investigate any further, after they got the sentence they wanted....and he well-deserved.....Thanks for stopping by!


sid 3 years ago

actually Charlie Did in fact have blood on his hands. Re-read the book and you will note that he entered the home of the labianca's and showed them just how to do the murder...literally. he was also suspected of and i'm not sure if it was ever proven , murdering a man and burying him on the ranch.


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fpherj48 3 years ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

Jynzly....Sorry it has taken me so long to reply. I'm on a bit of a break from HP....but slowly easing my way back to fully active....soon.

Yes, Charley was quite a devil, to say the least. Thanks for the visit. !!


Jynzly profile image

Jynzly 3 years ago from Marion, Indiana, USA

Very informative. I had read about Charley Manson's crimes in my research in the net. Such destructive delusions of a sick mind; mind of the devil.


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 3 years ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

I remember it all, painfully well.......it was quite the gruesome event. Charley will always be Charley....and live in his own crazy, fantasy world.

The man is too whacked out to really understand what he's thinking.....


dsmitty2670 3 years ago

i remember the movie helter skelter as a kid, scared the crap out of me but he does not want out of prison because he would lose his attention and his life !!!


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fpherj48 3 years ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

gm......Charlie has no reason for remorse, as he says. "He's done nothing wrong." No chance whatsoever of him making parole. None, zero, Zip, Nada. He's been denied a dozen times. In his seventies, he will expire in prison.


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gmwilliams 3 years ago from the Greatest City In The World-New York City, New York

If there is a definition of pure evil, Charles Manson totally exemplifies it. He is an extremely dangerous psychopath with no conscience regarding the concept of right and wrong in addition to having no iota of remorse for what he has done. I pray that he stays in jail for the rest of his life. He does not deserve any less.


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 3 years ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

Stephanie.....I am sure you recall this story as well and as horrifyingly as we all do, from the '60's.. It's one of those things we don't soon forget! Charley is far more off the deep end than ever. There have a couple of interviews done for TV....to satisfy public curiosity, and he still loves the attention and exposure and plays it up big, for the cameras.....but he's just LOONEY TUNES.


Stephanie Henkel profile image

Stephanie Henkel 3 years ago from USA

These horrifying murders made such a huge impression on everyone in the 1960s! It's hard to believe that a monster like Manson is still alive. He is true evil.

Your article was so interesting and well written. Now that I must go on to read your other hubs!


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fpherj48 3 years ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

Michael.....and oh so many monkeys wander about......looking for someone, something, somewhere, to wind up their empty heads, direct their sleeping hearts......take their money and convince them they have found paradise on earth...............Ah....duh.....

Hello??!


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MichaelJohnMele 3 years ago from Seffner, Florida

Good ol' Charlie Manson...another person who needs to be erased from this world...with a quickness. If we didn't have so many stupid people in this world he wouldn't have been able to do what he did...so please people...learn to think.

Great read...thanks for sharing.


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 3 years ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

Dion...Hello, and thanks for stopping by and adding your comment. I know that Susan Atkins (Sadie May Glutz) died from a brain tumor in 2009....and paul watson died of luekemia.......I am also aware of Fromme living under an alias in Washington. There are also 2 or 3 who were imprisoned for a period of time for "other" crimes (not the Tate-LaBianca murders)....who made parole in due time.

However, Manson, Watkins, Patricia....the "key players" in the murders, continue to serve their life sentences and have been repeatedly and flatly denied parole...

Not a one of them is "being protected" at the expense of our government. I have no idea where you may have gotten this propaganda but it is grossly incorrect. Those who were released have gone to where ever they went and have done whatever they have done on their own in their their own way.

Lynette Fromme, who did her time for the attempt on Prez Ford's life, was given new identity and a location to reside, due to numerous threats on her life. However, other than this bit of assistance, she has received no financial support from our government......whatsoever.

Quite seriously and sensibly, can you actually think the US Govt. would pay to support a Kook who took a shot at a sitting President?

Ridiculous.

I have close friends who work at the prison where Charley lives. He continues to be their "entertainment" on slow days......


Dion Pangallo 3 years ago

Whatever you think or have to say about it, fact is, many of them are walking the streets today under assumed identities. Charlie is just the poster child. IMO all should have been given the Chinese 1000 cut treatment, just so they could feel what they dealt and truly experience the revolution they so longed for. Many of the people in the so called manson family, either directly involved with the murders and/or were there/knew what was happening (that we "officially" know of.. apparently there are more revealed in the TEX lawyer tapes...) are free today people!! - protected by none other than our govt. how about that!

Don't believe me? Check it:

http://investigation.discovery.com/investigation/h...


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 3 years ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

Michael....I agree with you....for the reason you mention and ALSO, because had they been executed, they'd be sleeping peacefully, as opposed to suffering every single day of their lives......painfully aware of the atrocities they committed, being denied freedom and a life of fulfillment and success, away from Society, the beauty of nature, delicious cuisine.......but, instead, locked up like caged animals, under constant watch and supervision, dullness, boredom, stench and continual wasted and rotting moments. THIS and more, is why I am anti-capital punishment. Thanks for reading, Mike......


molometer profile image

molometer 3 years ago

What an intriguing case study.

This one case alone proves that the death penalty is not a good idea.

Look at how much we have learned from these characters.

Hopefully now better educated, we may spot these individuals before they wreck other lives.

Michael


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 4 years ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

MT......I became deeply involved with studying this entire group and their stories.......back when this all hit the public's attention. I think I've read every word ever printed on this. In fact, we did an entire psychological probe and discussion group, back then, in one of the Human behavior classes.......I tell you, MT, there is more "psychology" here to keep an entire staff busy and deeply interested, for years.

I understand your fascination.....that's pretty much the general response from the masses. Bringing all aspects together.......it was the perfect storm, but certainly not the first nor the last.....(Jim Jones, David Koresh, Jeffries......the list goes on) The average, normal, stable individual, like you and I find it bizarre that there simply are those who can be sucked in, brain washed and obsessed. Yet, this sort of cult-like behavior is far more common than we are aware.

For starters....just look at your basic Tele-evangelist......they are super wealthy. How? The idiots watching and being pulled in to their game, send them money...lots of money.

"If you stand for nothing....you will fall for anything."..........


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Millionaire Tips 4 years ago from USA

Psychology fascinates me so - how a group of kids can manage to get so brainwashed by someone with a mental illness that they are able to even kill for him is amazing. This is an amazing story for so many different aspects and you have told it well. Voted up.


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 4 years ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

I agree with you, DREAM ON, I always read every comment to a hub. I believe it's part of the big picture and allows us to get a feel for the pulse of our community.


DREAM ON profile image

DREAM ON 4 years ago

What an indepth hub.Some people should be left behihd bars and he is definitely one of them.It is so sad to hear about murders of innocent people.I loved reading all the comments by all the hubbers that was a hub in itself.


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 4 years ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

Poor Charley...lol.....He hasn't been able to preach or brainwash in so long...but he sure as hell still tries. He's a tenacious little creep! Basically, in his 70's now, I'd guess he's fairly "harmless," but the prison system is not about to take any chances with such a high profile nut job.....The next huge headlines we'll ever see about Charley, will be that he expired in his cell....Amen.


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DanaTeresa 4 years ago from Ohio

Very intersting! I am fascinated by sociology and psychology. I also have been fascinated with Manson since I was a teenager. The ability of one man to captivate and control so competely that people would kill for him is amazing. It is a rare thing, but it happens. Look at Hitler. And Jim Morrison could whip a croud into a frenzy.... I have always meant to learn more about Manson. Thank you for the informative look at the man.


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fpherj48 4 years ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

Hi quizbomb....you are precisely correct. It's important to know the background, history and sequence of events that leads to the makings of a psychopath...............


quizbomb profile image

quizbomb 4 years ago from Lancashire, United Kingdom

Now that was a good hub to read - well written and very informative. The lives of serial killers and people who do extra ordinarily bad things is always a subject of interest to many. People obviously don't condone what they did but at the same time are drawn into wondering what possesses people to go to such extremes .. voted up :)


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 4 years ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

I do agree with you, and have wondered the same thing., especially in a case where the original sentence had been Death Row. However, each State has their own rulings on such things. Some States do not have "Life WITHOUT the possibility of parole.

Yes, it is mind boggling how Fame can be achieved.


nighthag profile image

nighthag 4 years ago from Australia

Its amazing to me that he gets a chance at parole, what ever happened to a life sentence meaning life...till the day you die.

A great hub about a man famous for the worst reasons


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 4 years ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

mythbuster........hmmm...well, let's see.....How did Manson believe he was a guru? What made him think he was powerful over others? a stud muffin with the ladies? Charley heard what he wanted to hear and translated in his own sick, twisted mind. The guy was seriously damaged. I think that's how he got his crazy meaning for the song....


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 4 years ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

Oh...trust me, craiglyn....trust me, the parole board and our justice system... They will never see the light of day.


craiglyn profile image

craiglyn 4 years ago from Ontario, Canada

I remember this like it was yesterday, and how horrified we all were. A great account Paula of all the happenings. I read the book Helter Skelter and cried at those two horrific murders; particularly Sharon Tate and the baby really bothered me. They are where they belong, and may they never see the light of day.


mythbuster profile image

mythbuster 4 years ago from Utopia, Oz, You Decide

I thought Ned might have returned to comment again by now :) One thing I don't get about Manson... his obsession with the Beatles song "Helter Skelter." It's an alright song... but how Manson derived a deep meaning out of the lyrics is beyond me!


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 4 years ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

mythbuster....So pleased to have you stop by. I appreciate your interest in my work.

Yes, as I stated in this hub....you are correct...Charly is never getting out. While the parole hearing may be a waste of money (as is his existence) it is still his right and the Parole System must go through the motions.

It does not surprise me that he was and has remained a high profile personality. Charly's story has it ALL....The severely dysfunctional childhood, abandonment, abuse, neglect, multiple foster homes/Juvenile Facilities. It was the ever-infamous '70's......California.....Hippie life/Commune.......Brutal, cold-blooded murders, Celebrity, Cult Activity.....the list continues. He is certainly a character to be both horrified and amused by....

To this day....his legend is strong....his popularity remains, sad as this is. There is a group of youngsters, born LONG after the Manson Saga....yet profess devotion and loyalty to him....much like Hitler-Crazies.

Yes...it's a strange, strange world we live in.


mythbuster profile image

mythbuster 4 years ago from Utopia, Oz, You Decide

Interesting hub, fpherj48. I don't believe Charley is ever getting out, so the parole hearings are very much an expense and waste of time - however - at least the process of the hearings ensures that Manson will stay put. I sometimes can't believe what a high profile personality Manson is from behind bars and everything. The guy has been locked up for longer than he was living free before the Helter Skelter massacre. Occasionally it hits me that this guy has always been sick. Ah, empathy is dangerous...


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 4 years ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

Hey Coge......I know what you're saying...about "Ned," whoever he is(?)? but here's my theory on this sort of thing. .........

In 14 months, I believe I have only deleted one comment and I don't even recall WHY. I would only delete a comment if I felt it was embarrassing or insulting to me or any fellow-hubber...........In Ned's case....if he chooses to expose himself as an ignorant butthead to thousands of people..........I say, go for it. Who am I to cover for him? His words and manner of expressing himself is a pretty sad way of saying to the world, "Hey, look! I'm a real Moron!" LOL

But you are a dear sweet man to suggest that I silence him.......I see there are quite a few like him here and there.....but there are many MORE great people...so we just ignore his kind....

Thanks for coming to learn about Charley......He's a trip, HUH?


Cogerson profile image

Cogerson 4 years ago from Virginia

Hey fpherj48.....before I talk about your hub....I think you should delete Ned's comment.....not that I am about censorship but his comment is probably one of the worst ones I have read.....If he feels that strongly about the subject he should write a hub...and maybe he could articulate without the use of profanity and insults.

Ok....hopping off my soapbox. I enjoyed reading this hub....I have been aware of Charles Manson almost all of my life....but the only real knowledge I have about him came from the tv movie Helter Skelter. So getting the real facts was an enjoyable read. I have always felt sorry for Roman Polanksi when I think about this part of his life. An educational and informative hub....and another fine addition to your evergrowing hub collection. Voted up and awesome.


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 4 years ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

Ned....relax, dude. His family were not exactly "educated" people.....OK? first of all, they were aimless youngsters, high on pot most days, looking for something to believe in .. drifters....estranged from their families.

You've not ever learned of the brainwashing that occurs in cults and fringe groups? Where have you been? Jim Jones, David Koresh....there are many. They are not hypnotized.....literally. Certainly you realize this.

Are you really comparing the likes of Charley's young, naïve, pot-head followers to adult, professionally trained Corrrection Officers? Really?

OK....you can tell us. You were one of Charley's fans...right?


Ned 4 years ago

People are damn stupid! They believe in shit the media tells them. (newspapers, t.v. news etc.) Charles Manson didn't tell people to kill anyone. They killed because they wanted to. Remember, these are educated people. If they fell for Charles Manson and his "hypnotic" power. Well, why the fuck didn't the guards in jail set him free then?


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 4 years ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

Euro........Don't feel bad.......Even Charlie doesn't know he's still alive.


EuroNinila profile image

EuroNinila 4 years ago from NYC BABY

He was an evil man and should have been killed for what he did, but now he's an old hag. I didn't know he was still alive, LOL.


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fpherj48 4 years ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

Via the NYS Thruway (I90) I get to Erie in about 75 minutes.....so, I guess you could say ....we're practically NEIGHBORS! lol


epigramman profile image

epigramman 4 years ago

...actually I live about 100 feet away from the lake itself and 47 miles across the way is your country and Erie, Penn.

This is just a humble little family cottage and be it ever so humble there's no place like home and it's been the best 8 years of my life moving here full time after my mum died in 2004. I have no family so this place means a lot to me as do my two best friends - my cats - off for a dip in the lake right now as a matter of fact and as you know where you live - our summers are short enough and then it's back to you know what - lol - sending good thoughts your way - lake erie time 10:48am


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fpherj48 4 years ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

Hi Colin! So nice of you to come by so soon after I have read your interview. And here I too , sit by Lake Erie.....same EST time......If I had a boat, I probably could have come to give you my response in person!...althoug I haven't a clue how FAR away you are.

11 years old is rather young to hear such horrors...but, sadly, this is the world we live in.

Fortunately there is much more good....and wonder and happiness for those of us who love life and appreciate it's beauty.

Unfortunately for Charlie......he never gets to know. Too bad, Charlie.


epigramman profile image

epigramman 4 years ago

.... I was 11 years old when I first heard about the Sharon Tate murders - I remember hearing it on the car radio ...... so this world class hub presentation is like a trip down (dubious) memory lane for me and a horrid fascination that many of us may have with Charlie Manson - thank you for your homework and research here and yes I had a neighbor once who lived next door to me and his name was Ray and he looked like Charlie's evil twin - boy oh boy that was creepy - lol - love the passion behind your writing, your intellect and your heart - and here I sit by lake erie time ontario canada 9:01am sending these warm wishes and good energy to you


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 4 years ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

He's one of many who let the odds against him, bring him toward evil...rather than rise above it all and shine. It's all very sad that we have hoards of sick & demented individuals amongst us...I do not ever accept any "excuses" for viscious behavior and crimes against man.....OR animal, for that matter. I cry when I see the commercials on TV of the starving, diseased and beaten animals that are intentionally mistreated by their owners.

To try to imagine harming an innocent, helpless child...not to mention the atrocities that are done EVERY day by predators and perverts.....it is far beyond the sane, loving person to conceive.

I often will not read any news or watch TV for days at a time, just to cleanse my mind and lighten my heart from the insanity in this world.

Thank you so much, rahul for reading my work and leaving a thoughful comment......Ole Charlie will die soon. That is when his eternal strife will begin.


rahul0324 profile image

rahul0324 4 years ago from Gurgaon, India

A twisted mind who I feel should have been exempted of the abolition of capital punishment.. and made to sit on the chair.. with a dry sponge.. not wet

How sick a mind can be... when Satan himself creeps inside it


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 4 years ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

iamaudraleigh....

At the actual time of his noteriety, I recall being so horrified at the entire situation, I read whatever I could get my hands on. I am simply not able to wrap my brain around the concept of being "brain-washed" & sucked in by another human being.....especially one who is visibly looney. Gullible, weak-minded and ignorant all at once, is a bit much to conceive. (Of course, I realize that drugs played a role) But, I'm sure you know what I mean. Some little grundgy, hippie-guy w/ a Bible and guitar, claiming to be Jesus Christ? Yeah....No, he's not coming near me!!

Till,

It's difficult for me to realize how long ago this was headline news. Back then, when the publicity was everywhere, we had an actual 3-hr. discussion group at work, with the goal of analyzing the cult-life and concept. Most of us were devouring all the info we could absorb. I even got into investigating the background of his closest followers. What impacted me most was discovering the degree of power and control, an individual would relinquish to another. I've always believed that a stubborn, head-strong child is NOT a negative thing. One day, it may prevent that child from "following the crowd."


tillsontitan profile image

tillsontitan 4 years ago from New York

Anyone who isn't familiar with Charles Manson and the Manson Family should read this to bone up. No one should forget what one charismatic lunatic has done.


iamaudraleigh 4 years ago

I like how you wrote a very detailed and updated bio of this awful man...though fascinating. I did not know he was still alive! Voted up!


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 4 years ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

Consider the big picture....It was California in the '60's (the hippie era). Runaways and drifters are not self-motivated individuals to begin with....they live in a fog, searching for people and things unknown. The need to belong is constant.

Add to this, a bible-quoting, guitar-toting, pot-smoking con-artist with the gift of manipulation. Brain-washing is an art. All you need is one self-proclaimed guru and a group of weak-minded, aimless young drifters....and you've got yourself a cult.

Remember....these people don't think like you and I. Truth is, they don't think at all....they let someone else think for them.


RunAbstract profile image

RunAbstract 4 years ago from USA

Yeah... I read the book back in '77 or '78, so I'm probably way off on how it all happened.

But what still has me baffled is... even if Manson wasn't mentally ill back then... why, oh why did the others do his bidding? I just can't understand how he was able to convince these people to do the things they did.

I know they were using drugs, and he was their "leader" and so on. I just don't understand how not one single person out of the whole bunch wasn't able to step away, realizing how terribly evil it all was, and try to prevent it. I guess that's the worse part for me. Because if just one person had done something, those poor innocent people could have lived on.

I know I can't understand it. It is too far away from my own personal way of thinking. Too evil.

I'm just grateful the perps are in prison, and will have to stay there!


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 4 years ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

Run.....The LaBiancas were killed first.....and I don't recall Charlie being angry about "how" they were killed. He kept himself distanced from the murders...There were a couple of family members who turned State's evidence, but none of the ones who committed the murders....just other family members (don't recall their names at the moment.) All of the murderers were convicted and went to prison.

There are weak-minded, lost people everywhere in this world....look at the Jim Jones's of Guyana and David Koresh followers from Waco Texas. It is a complex psychiatric study to even begin to try to understand how and why people get sucked in to cults, etc....

Charley was not at all mentally ill in his younger days when this all came about. Now, he's bonkers, but back then, believe it or not, he was extremely intelligent and just manipul;ative and charismatic.

I too was totally creeped out when it all happened. I remember reading the book with my doors locked.

Thanks so much for coming by. Long time no see. I enjoy your comments!


RunAbstract profile image

RunAbstract 4 years ago from USA

So many comments!!! Sorry I didn't read them all, and hope I'm not repeating another, but... Didn't the "family member" who was there, turned state's witness and walked, testify that Manson was upset by the way Sharon Tate and her friends were killed, and so he showed them how it was supposed to be done with the LaBiancas? It's been a really long time since I read Helter Skelter, but if memory serves I think that's what the witness said.

What baffled me when I read about these crimes, is that the "family" followed him to such lengths! I could never get past them giving their free will over to him! I just can not wrap my mind around letting a mentally ill person talk that many people into doing such horrible things. And not one person at the ranch went to the police before these victims were killed. In fact the state's witness, who I repeat WAS THERE only turned against the others, in my opinion, to save her own butt. To me she's guilty too, even though she claimed innocence, and testified against the others.

When I read the book I got the creeps so bad, realizing there are these kinds of people out there! And the whole ordeal took away part of my childish self, and infused me with a dread at what "could" happen, but for the grace of God!

Very well written Hub. Vote up and more!


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 4 years ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

Eliza.....The 3 men you mention were all psychopathic, to say the least. Jim Jones was an extremely frightening man...almost as though he was posessed.

I don't believe Jones & Koresh planned that one day all their followers would die....but the fact that when they were challenged and exposed, it's rather intriguing how Jones demanded the mass suicide and Koresh created the panic episode that caued the death of most of his followers....and both, took their own lives.

Those "people" represented the only power they ever had...and were no longer human beings to them....They had to be certain none of them continued to live unless under their control.

As for Charley....Now, after so many years and as old as he is....not to mention Cuckoo, he's fine right where he is, to just fade away one day.

Thanks for your time and interest.


ElizaDoole profile image

ElizaDoole 4 years ago from London

Manson, Jonestown and WACO all freaked me out when they happened. This kind of weird conspiracy to murder or deprive people of their liberty has happened too many times for me to think it all unconnected. I wonder if it has all taken a new form, when I think of Joseph Fritzl, the Austrian guy who locked his own daughters in a soundproof cellar from 1984 to 2008 when she was discovered. I mean, are there some people who do deserve the DP? Surely enough is enough - imagine how the victims feel that are left. They will never have complete peace until the scum no longer breath air on this earth.


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 4 years ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

Hey, you're welcome, GF...anytime I can create a nightmare or 2, let me know..lol.....OH, I'm so glad to know that there actually IS someone else who reads COMMENTS. I read them all the time, but I'm told 97% of hubbers do not.

I enjoy the comments as much as I like the hub itself....I think we can get to know one another better that way....and plus, I'm really nosy. I need to know what everyone is talking about.

thanks for stopping by ......I was just commenting on one of YOUR hubs a few minutes ago!!


Sharyn's Slant profile image

Sharyn's Slant 4 years ago from Northeast Ohio USA

Well thanks for bringing back creepy memories Paula :) I was young yet remember how devastating the news was. I had nightmares about Helter Skelter blood on the walls for a long time. It all came flushing back when I saw the title of your WELL WRITTEN hub. But I'm okay now cuz I also read through your extremely entertaining comments.


Skarlet profile image

Skarlet 4 years ago from California

A well written hub about one of the strangest crimes in Hollywood history.Voted up!


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 4 years ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

Followers of the likes of Manson, Jones and Koresh are certainly weak-minded....off-beat, down-trodden....nothing good, that's for sure. We've heard the addage..."If you stand for Nothing...you'll fall for anything?" That pretty much describes the type of individual who sits still long enough to be sucked in by a lunatic.

Charley's got an inside scoop alright...and that's exactly where he's stayin....INSIDE.

Thanks for commenting Wayne. I appreciate your input.


Wayne Brown profile image

Wayne Brown 4 years ago from Texas

I find Manson's and David Karess much alike in their ability to lure "sheep" into their lair. Jim Jones apparently had the same skillset. One wonders whether these people were extremely weak and in need or if these three truly had such persausive ways about them. I have listened to some of Charley's rambling rants which to me sound like circular nonsense which he attempts to sell as higher intelligence on his part. The insinuation is that he is truly in touch with God and thus has the inside scoop. Charley has received far more attention over the years than a dirtbag like him deserves but, as you point out, his name still strikes fear in people. Good write! WB


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 4 years ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

Twin.....Yes, he certainly is spooky, but at this point, as old and crazy as he is...not to mention, he's just a tiny man......he's not much to be afraid of.

His followers may have started out lost and vulnerable, but they developed into monsters of their own accord.

I'm sure the parole board gets quite a laugh over his antics, because they surely have no intention of granting this creep parole.

He will exspire right where he is....where he belongs.

Thanks for stopping by.


Minnetonka Twin profile image

Minnetonka Twin 4 years ago from Minnesota

Seeing his pictures on your hub just give me the creeps. This guy is so crazy and evil and you can see it in his eyes. I would hate being one of those people on the parole board. I can't imagine how spooky it would be to sit in front of this creep. It's so sad how these vulnerable people got so sucked into Charles web of lies. I had to hit many buttons on this interesting but spooky article.


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 4 years ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

janicon...thank you so much for visiting my site to read and comment on this hub. Some of Charley's followers became as well-known as he did.....especially "Squeaky" who took the shot at Prez Ford.....I'm glad you liked this hub


janikon profile image

janikon 4 years ago from Toronto, Ontario

What an informative hub. I, for some reason, know more about Patricia Krenwinkle, than I do about Charles Manson. So, thank you, for broadening my knowledge on him. I'm going off to YouTube him now ... Voted Up. Awesome and Interesting.


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 4 years ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

habee....he is creepy looking.....and seems to get more so as he ages. Worse than his looks is his whacky behavior. There's a TV clip of him talking to a reporter and he blabs non-stop, out his BUTT!! makes NO SENSE whatsoever..

I think Hitler was one of his idols...


habee profile image

habee 4 years ago from Georgia

Just looking at your pics of Manson gave me chills. He's always reminded me of Hitler. Fascinating hub! Voted up.


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 4 years ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

Kelly.....I hear you. Beats the heck out of your average "normal" person as to what the attraction could have possibly been with little ole Charley. I think that rather than Charley having some special powers, it's fairly obvious these lost souls who clung to him were just desperately searching for something to believe in and a group to "belong" too. It's quite sad how millions of people become so vulnerable, they will fall for just about anything.

Yes, he did come up before the Parole Board just recently. "Sorry Charley".....no luck for the 12th time.


RealHousewife profile image

RealHousewife 4 years ago from St. Louis, MO

Hey Effer - I saw the movie and read a book about this weirdo! He was a freak - and his little band of creepy misguided girls that followed him as if he was worthy.

I was so intrigued because I couldn't figure out what charisma this icky guy had. He was scary looking! I recently saw a bit of news about him. I can't remember if he was trying to get parole or what but I know he will never get out of prison thank goodness!


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 4 years ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

Hi Eddy! Nice to hear from you. I haven't spent as much time as I'd like online. Had to bite the bullet and get some "real" work done in my "other" life!!! Have a great evening!! Peace.


Eiddwen profile image

Eiddwen 4 years ago from Wales

So very interesting and thank you for sharing.

Take care and here's to so many more for us both to share on here.

Eddy.


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 4 years ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

Dex...hahahahahahah lmao....Charley is the epitome of the concept of All CREEPY-NESS!! I LOVE to watch and listen to him RANT to the Parole Board....there have been Docu's on some of the news programs. I swear at any moment.....2 little doors will open on his forehead and pop out a birdie...CUCKOO CUCKOO!!


Dexter Yarbrough profile image

Dexter Yarbrough 4 years ago from United States

Charles Manson gave me the creeps when I was a little boy and I hate to say that he still does! Spooky guy.


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 4 years ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

Jason...Thank you so much. There hasn't been this much hoopla over my BD since I was a child. Hubbers are quite a group of happy, loving partiers!!


Jason R. Manning profile image

Jason R. Manning 4 years ago from Sacramento, California

Happy Birthday fpherj48


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 4 years ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

Tillie....our wonderful Justice system, you know.. The Parole hearings are his "right"...a formality. Lord knows he'll never set one toe out the door. They even denied Susan Atkins a Mercy Parole due to terminalbrain cancer.. They just said, "so sorry dear...no way."

Nell Rose...

Thanks for the BD wish! Yeah...good ole Charley is still kicking (literally). At this point it's all simply ludicrous...just like him!

Angela....

Thanks so much for visiting my hub and for your comment.....which echos a Universal opinion on Manson. None of them stand a chance in hell of getting out....ever! But they WILL have a chance to stand in hell for a long long time. Peace.


Angela Kane profile image

Angela Kane 4 years ago from Las Vegas, Nevada

I keep thinking that Charles Manson is gone already and then I am reminded that he is still here. I do not think he should ever be paroled, I don't care how old he gets. This also goes for every person that was involved in that awful crime.


Nell Rose profile image

Nell Rose 4 years ago from England

Hi, I can't believe he is still around! it seems like such a long time ago this appalling act happened. he will always stand out for the horrible things he did, and like your comments above, I believed he had died, or at least been put to the death penalty years ago. A chilling, and fascinating story of one of the Worlds most evil men, voted and + and Happy Birthday! lol! just spotted it above!


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 4 years ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

This has been an especially great Birthday!! Thanks to all my wonderful Hub-Pals........oh, and of course, here in my other world...all my family and friends have gone the distance to make my day special.

Well, honey, just let me say, if that's your "medicated" blast.....I'd hate to be within a mile for one of your UN-medicated blasts LMAO!!! You're MY kind-a-gal!! I guarantee you, we'd be one Feared DUO!!


Kim Cantrell profile image

Kim Cantrell 4 years ago from Deep In The Pages of a Book

I know you're thinking the collection should go to Huntgoddess, but quite frankly, I'd be happy to take it. These keep-me-sane pharmaceuticals are getting rather pricey due to the government conspiracy to get me hooked on Meth. Well, that's what Wesman would say anyway. ;)

Those kind of hubbers and commenters are running rampant these days. They irritate the fool out of me and their too stupid to get why they become a target of cruel insults.

All I can say is that kind better be glad I'm medicated, otherwise I'd blast their lame asses back to the stone ages with some of the things I would say to them. And Lord know I'm not hiding behind some username with a cartoon avatar; nope, that's my face and my real name and I'm still willing to say it.

Hope it made your birthday an extra special one. :)


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 4 years ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

Kim.....How are you today?? lol. I'm taking up a collection. Appears someone needs a refill on their meds.

I know a guy in a wheelchair and he's a real jerk, on one of those "pity-me' obnoxious trips, 24/7. His body isn't his disability though, it's his nasty attitude.

Hey...question? Since when do hubbers read hubs about things they dilike or disagree with, simply to comment w/ insults? and further.....TELL someone HOW they should and should not respond to their insults? Sounds like a whole new theory, possibly created by one of the cuckoo birds out there.

Have a nice day, oh silver-tongued sleuth....smile.


ishwaryaa22 profile image

ishwaryaa22 4 years ago from Chennai, India

Actually, I am curious with an engaging title of this hub and after reading this hub, I discovered the story of the notorious criminal. Your narration of his childhood, his grown-up days and later his criminal life is well-told.

Thanks for SHARING.Interesting. Voted up.


tillsontitan profile image

tillsontitan 4 years ago from New York

I think I have readers' cramp! You certainly generated a lot of comments on this one. My question is "why does he even come up for parole?" Shouldn't they just let him rot in jail and not give him (or his companions) any more publicity? They couldn't enact the death penalty but they could just let the whole thing die in prison where he will hopefully expire soon.


Kim Cantrell profile image

Kim Cantrell 4 years ago from Deep In The Pages of a Book

Oh, hell no, you didn't! Huntgoddess, you came into a hub, SKIMMED it, then opted the leave a scathing comment about how it had no place on HP because YOU didn't like it. Now you've returned to whine because someone was RUDE to you? Lady, are you for real?

Just so you know, I would insult a person in a wheelchair if they present the attitude you did. I'm an equal-opportunity offender - no race, gender, religion, or level of insanity is safe from a verbal smack down by me when it's well deserved.

By the way, I'm certified bat-shit crazy, so others with "psych disabilities" get no pass from me - especially when YOU are the spouting BIGOTRY at others when YOU are a BIGOT yourself.

Sigh. Please, move on. This is NOT the hub you want to mess with. Those of us who read and discuss these kinds of hubs are WAY out of your league.


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 4 years ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

I will be sure to grab my share of favorite things today. Come to think of it, I do that every day....Greedy ole bitch that I am.


Wesman Todd Shaw profile image

Wesman Todd Shaw 4 years ago from Kaufman, Texas

LOL! Paula Paul.....nice ring to it!

Hope you have yourself your favorite stuff today - and that your kid owe's spoil ya. :;


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 4 years ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

Thank you so much for the Birthday wishes....I wish I was 30 again.....Nah, not really. I'm pretty damned happy, just the way I am. It was a hell of a long hard road getting here. Don't want a re-run....

Hey! If I married Ron Paul I'd be Paula Paul....or we would be Effer 'n Ron Paul.....


Wesman Todd Shaw profile image

Wesman Todd Shaw 4 years ago from Kaufman, Texas

HAPPY BIETHDAY EFFER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Kim Cantrell profile image

Kim Cantrell 4 years ago from Deep In The Pages of a Book

Hey, Hey, Happy Birthday!

Wes - Oh no, not a Ron Paul guy! :) RP has a lot of good ideas, but his defense plans are a buzz kill.


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 4 years ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

If ALL my wishes come true.......The PARTY will be MY TREAT, on the sands of Waikiki.....bring your own towel.


Sunshine625 profile image

Sunshine625 4 years ago from Orlando, FL

It's partyyyyy day!!! Happy Birthday Effer J, may all your wishes come true!!!


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 4 years ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

Look, you guys.....Kim, Wes & Jason. Party all you want, but don't be sending me the bill! And CLEAN UP BEFORE YOU LEAVE!!


Wesman Todd Shaw profile image

Wesman Todd Shaw 4 years ago from Kaufman, Texas

I keep getting told that I'm "too liberal." I don't let that bother me none, I'd not vote for Obama for any reason.

I'm a Ron Paul guy - but only for moral reasons. I have no faith at all in human ideals such as "libertarian-ism."


Jason R. Manning profile image

Jason R. Manning 4 years ago from Sacramento, California

WES IS TOO LIBERAL...B U R N...ouch dude, straight up ouch!


Kim Cantrell profile image

Kim Cantrell 4 years ago from Deep In The Pages of a Book

Oh, this is just too fun. Sorry, fpher, but I'm in a mid-life crisis where I'm accepting my own mortality (the other day I first thought a pimple was a cancerous cyst...sigh), so trying to be a cougar is the only thing left for me. hee hee!

And, WTH, I have a 20 year-old son. Forget Wesman, he's too liberal for any granddaughter of yours, my boy, on the other hand.... :)

Jason - YOU GO! Yeah, 'splain that one, Wes!

And last, but not least, tell me, Wesman, why was 1995 so important. I'm itching to hear that one! (But I'll have to see it tomorrow because this old gal is turning in for the night!)


Wesman Todd Shaw profile image

Wesman Todd Shaw 4 years ago from Kaufman, Texas

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

OH AND HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

We've got a fine crowd here!!!!! I love this party!!!!!!!!


Jason R. Manning profile image

Jason R. Manning 4 years ago from Sacramento, California

Wes...(tapping my boot) I am pissed at you, or shall I rephrase my utter disproportionate contempt I hold for your vacillating between marijuana and Meth! You went out of your way to say I was ill-informed about my theory of the Government controlling the expansion of pot, yet your freely admit among an audience of friends that the G-men are pushing grossly adulterated Meth…what gives dude? “LUCY!...you’ve got some explaining to do”


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 4 years ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

HEY!!! WTF?? Caught you two! What's with the INTERCHANGE between my boy toy & my GF Kim?? And in MY HUB space?? I'll be damned! Will ya check this out! Can't trust a soul.

On-line lovers for less than an hour and you're already in the arms of another woman.

I have to re-think this whole thing.

OK, I've thought about it. I forgive you.


Wesman Todd Shaw profile image

Wesman Todd Shaw 4 years ago from Kaufman, Texas

@ Kim - we've got a totally hijacked conversation here going on on a hub about Charles Manson!!!!!!!!!

Meth is anything but new, of course - so why is it that communities all over are having these problems with it starting in 1995???

Hint: the year 1995 was a big deal for America in relation to methamphetamine, and there is a reason that starting in 1995 meth addiction took off across the nation.

Meth has been around for a long time - but it took off in America in 1995...why? Well, the government created that situation entirely on its own.

So while if I pick up a pipe it is my choice, the conditions that led me into doing meth in 1995 were not my choices, but legislator's choices. Legislators and chemist caused the situation that flooded my hometown with methamphetamine.


Wesman Todd Shaw profile image

Wesman Todd Shaw 4 years ago from Kaufman, Texas

...IS TOTALLY HOLDING YOU TO ALL OF THIS!!!!!!!!!! I LOVE YOU TOO EFFER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 4 years ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

OK.....Wes, I'll say it once more and that's ALL! My hubby only allows me so many illicit love letters a day. I LOVE YOU! There. Now all of HubPages knows we're having an affair. They're probably thinking you must miss your Grandma or something....I believe this is known as a May-December romance.....but it's usually a dirty old man with some lovely little teen-ager. The nice thing about this is...before I go to the Nursing Home, I'll fix you up with my 22 year-old Granddaughter.....blonde-blue eyes...college grad with a home-town red-neck attitude.....you'll love her!!!

Kim My Crime-figting girlfriend... I love you too.


Kim Cantrell profile image

Kim Cantrell 4 years ago from Deep In The Pages of a Book

That is true. Again, you're right. (Can you please stop doing that?) But, in some very small areas such as where I am, it is creating a huge problem because of the mere immaturity (age wise) of the hardcore users and the lack of jobs (industrial town that has lost all but a handful of large-numbered employee facilities).

But, yes, alcohol is just as much of a problem as the meth. As well as the prescription drug addictions.

Really, truth be told, where I'm at is going to hell in a handbasket. And I'm one of those self-righteous people kicking them while they're down because, well hell, I've been down and fought my way back up so I can. lol

When you get right down to it: I'm just tired. Very, very tired. Know what I mean?


Wesman Todd Shaw profile image

Wesman Todd Shaw 4 years ago from Kaufman, Texas

Hey thanks! I don't mean to deny humanity's personal responsibility about things - but I don't tend to go for "black and white" renditions of "X is responsible Y is not...."

Also, as a very experienced meth user - I also know the drug is just another case of mass media hysteria.

Yes, it is a serious deal.

....but it isn't any more of a problem than alcohol is - truly.

I know folks that do hundreds of dollars worth of the stuff per day, eat three meals, and go to sleep every night, have a job, house, car, wife/husband - never steal shit or hurt anyone.

Government propaganda is just government propaganda. :;


Kim Cantrell profile image

Kim Cantrell 4 years ago from Deep In The Pages of a Book

You know what, Wesman, you're right. In those regulated prescriptions, they are responsible. Maybe, most of the time. Sometimes. There's a lot of ifs and what's. But I do digress on that and admit it.

But when we're talking straight out, homemade, brewed in the small town hotel rooms and rural hillbilly trailers of America, THAT meth is taken by choice. Yes, sometimes by people who got addicted on prescription drugs and seek it out. But most often times, NOT. But, either way, it's STILL a choice to use. Nobody stands there with a gun to your head and says inject, smoke, inhale, blah, blah, blah, blah.

Now look, I can talk conspiracy theories with you all day long. I can be a little paranoid like that but I still believe that people give way too much credit where credit is NOT due. And more than anything, I'm a HUGE fan of personal responsibility. And nobody is going to change my thoughts on that.

But, you know what, Wesman, I think you enjoy debating as much I do. This could go on forever! Bring it on, brother, my husband will thank you for it. :)

@Huntgoddess - yeah, I gotta agree with Wesman. Who's to say what's worthy or not? Apparently several of us have found this to be a fantastic topic. Please go police elsewhere.

@fpher - bwahahahahaha! Oh, what a diplomat. And you know what they say diplomacy is: the art of telling someone to go to hell and they're excited about the trip. But I must say, *I* do not feel as loved as Wesman. lol


Wesman Todd Shaw profile image

Wesman Todd Shaw 4 years ago from Kaufman, Texas

No but PLEASE DO!!!!!!!!!!!!!! SAY IT AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 4 years ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

Wesman......Have I told you lately that I love you?


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 4 years ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

Huntgoddess.....

Since this is your first visit to my site, I made the effort to read your bio, which reads like a run-on Hub in itself. I am quite surprised to see you are 63 yrs. old, in view of your puerile comment.

Looks as though you have numerous disturbing issues and a regrettable history with having placed your children with abusers. This is quite sad. I hope you will be able to come to terms with your guilt and sadness.

Your self-disclosure, albeit, also self-pitying, is quite helpful to me in terms of flatly disregarding your less-than-sensible critique, as simple ignorance.

Since your focus is on "Family-friendly & G-Rated" materials, I direct you to the Disney Channel rather than spending time with the Adult Authors here on HubPages.

I'm impressed that you admitted to being "sorry." You certainly ARE sorry, dear Huntgoddess.

Thanking you in advance for remaining off my site.

Have a wonderful evening.


Wesman Todd Shaw profile image

Wesman Todd Shaw 4 years ago from Kaufman, Texas

@Huntgoddess - shall we all have a look at yours and find one to leave the same sort of comment on?

...and by all means, please do start your own knock off of Hubpages.com so that you can make such stupid arbitrary comments.


Huntgoddess profile image

Huntgoddess 4 years ago from Midwest U.S.A.

Thanks so much, 2bsure. You are correct.

I'm sorry, but I feel that this kind of an article has no place here on Hubpages. It's nothing but tacky, cheap, sleazy sensationalism. There's no actual information here that everybody doesn't already know.

The author has no way of knowing what was in someone's mind, or thoughts, or how that person felt, or when they started thinking about this or that, or why they started thinking that way.

It makes me cry.


Wesman Todd Shaw profile image

Wesman Todd Shaw 4 years ago from Kaufman, Texas

Kim Cantrell - the government is VERY responsible. You do realize that was a prescription medication in the USA for the longest time.

At one drug rehab I'd attended several old men who did not know each other all realized in a group that they were all hooked on methamphetamine due to the exact same doctor who'd started them all off on it (prescription) in the 60's.

Also, you seriously need to realize that prescription Adderal and prescription Vyvanse - the stuff they give folks for ADHD are the EXACT same thing.

Trust me on that - the scripts of speed I've done were absolutely the exact same thing as the stuff that is sold wherever it is sold in your hometown. Take about four 15mg Vyvanse - and you'll be flying like the Hell's Angels at Altamont. in no time.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/PMH000039...

Furthermore - our government isn't idiotic at psychology, and the mass media is part of our government as a result of "corporate person hood" - the single biggest idiocy in the USA outside of the federal reserve.

The way media portrays things is coldly calculated to manipulate persons into "tasting forbidden fruit." Nothing happens by accident in politics.


Kim Cantrell profile image

Kim Cantrell 4 years ago from Deep In The Pages of a Book

That last sentence is too funny!

How is the government responsible for Meth addicts? Did they hold guns to the heads of people who tried it? I've had a few family members on it and I'm pretty sure they've never mentioned anything like that.

So, EVEN IF the government put it out there (and I don't believe that), wasn't it still PERSONAL CHOICES of the addicts to use?

I'll agree with your statement that nothing accidental happens in politics, but sorry, Wesman, meth isn't one of those. That's people and stupidity. Plain and simple. No ifs, ands, or buts.


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 4 years ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

Oh my....Wes....you are a work in progress.....you like "the process"......Sure, I'll bet you do. How CAN you deny the world WTS offspring?? Gosh...they'd be the cutests, smartest little imps ever! Who will carry on the name?? Doesn't your mama bug you for grandchildren??

OR DOES SHE KNOW BETTER!!?? lmao


Wesman Todd Shaw profile image

Wesman Todd Shaw 4 years ago from Kaufman, Texas

Well you'd have to understand the history of meth, and how the legislation of things caused HUGE PROFITS for big pharma and private prison corporations - it wasn't an accident the way things happened - but it is much better now.

What I mean is that by putting pseudo ephedrine behind the counter - things changed for the better.

There is absolutely NO LESS meth on the street - but what there is is cleaner meth made in Mexico by a much more proper method of manufacture.

The US Government, of course, got everyone hooked on the stuff themselves...again, for profit, and probably with the plan for making it illegal, and imprisoning people for private prison profits and big pharma profits.

Nothing accidental happens in politics!

Oh I don't know about little Wesman's - but I sure like the process!


Kim Cantrell profile image

Kim Cantrell 4 years ago from Deep In The Pages of a Book

Ha! Girl, you know I am a no-holds-barred kind of gal. It goes from brain to mouth in 0.0 seconds. My mother, a devout Pentecostal, is so proud. lol

And Wes, fpher is right - bring a couple of little Wesmans into the world and you're outlook changes tremendously.

I think we may have a common ground on the drug sentencing mandates. Some, I should say. I don't think it's a conspiracy by any means but I do think if they'd stop arresting people for pot possession, we'd have a lot more room for REAL criminals. on the other hand, I also believe we should just let the Meth people have at it because, well, I see it as a thinning of the herd. And that's exactly what I tell my kids - you try it, you'll get hooked and you'll have nobody to blame but yourself.

It is what it is.


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 4 years ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

Kim,

my good friend (another Libra)...my empathies are with your children...lmao! Not really. You GO, Mom!

Just one more thing, I really wish you would come out with your real gut feelings! bawahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

tsmog

Thank you so much for your honest and intelligent response to this issue. You are probably better off not knowing the gruesome & egregious details. As we can see here in the various comments, quite sadly, MASS MURDER is not a rare event. Boggles the stable mind, does it not?

Wes....

buy yourself some better beer. Nothing worse than drinking PISS. Glad your "meth" days are well behind you......you're just plain damned lucky you still have a mouthful of nice teeth so you can flash that sexy smile at all the young chicks. Thank your Maker, my son, go forth and sin no more.....I know the way to Texas and can kick ass with the best of Grandmas.

I keep telling you, what you need is a "little" Wesman or 2. Your entire life (and attitude) would turn around.

I'm with you 100% on human behavior never changing based on fear of punishment. That WILL never happen.

btw....John Gotti is dead.....cancer.

Jason

You are a very astute man with an elegant way of getting your points across. I am pleased you chose to read my work and comment here. Please visit anytime....Even when you may not hold my opinion!!! Look at my buddy, Wes, he's as contrary as they come but we love him anyway!!


Wesman Todd Shaw profile image

Wesman Todd Shaw 4 years ago from Kaufman, Texas

John Gotti works - I don't think anyone could say that he was crazy at all. I could see a dp for Gotti, but of course I'm for the most part an anti dp guy.

You know I'm the all out meth expert, right? I've done more of that than most anyone - never had a cavity either.

Looking at the way the legislation went - I think "the meth epidemic" was created on purpose - so as to fill these private prisons for dollars. It is a nasty drug, and I should get off my butt and try to explain why I think anti drug legislation is wrong, but that would take a large hub instead of this comment.

Life in prison for Gotti types of "King Pens" is a good idea - but the thing is - we can NOT prevent crime at all, so even in prison someone like Gotti would most likely be running some things. While I think folks on the street shouldn't have to deal with armed gangs of thugs terrorizing the neighborhood - I think too much focus is being put on punishment, and not enough focus is being put towards understanding the cause of the problems.

If we want to break Mexican drug cartels - then we are doing it completely wrong. The only way to do that is to decriminalize the thing that gives them power, and spend the enforcement dollars on education and treatment instead of continually embarrassing ourselves with the world's highest rate of incarceration whilst claiming to be the most civilized nation on the planet.

I think prisons and law enforcement are always going to be very very necessary - but human behavior isn't going to change from fear of punishment - that actually seems to drive human desire towards "forbidden fruit."

I don't know ....I'm just a pocket pseudo philosopher on the web :-/


Jason R. Manning profile image

Jason R. Manning 4 years ago from Sacramento, California

Henry the VIII would not have been tolerated in the 19th, 20th or 21st century. No need to mention Thomas Beckett, most of those whom he had tortured and beheaded would qualify him as an abuser of power. Jim Jones and Marshal are crazy to us in a different sense, however they operated a successful lifestyle and were in positions to influence reasonable morons.

If you do not like Hitler, how about John Gotti, he is directly responsible for ordering dozens of hits, runs killer meth rings, and we cannot count how many young people are dead from this as a result. What should we do with these individuals who instruct but do not physically participate? Help me understand. Thanks buddy.


Kim Cantrell profile image

Kim Cantrell 4 years ago from Deep In The Pages of a Book

@Jason - HOORAY! Fantastic analogy with Hitler. I'm putting that in my got-to-use-it vault. :)


Wesman Todd Shaw profile image

Wesman Todd Shaw 4 years ago from Kaufman, Texas

Well, we couldn't exactly execute King Henry for the death of Thomas Beckett, could we?

"..who will rid me of this meddlesome priest? This beer tastes like PISS!"

Simply because it is too broad. The entire problem with the death penalty is it's over application. While the Manson murders were extremely bad - I'd more think the person that actually stabbed Sharon Tate to death would deserve the DP than would Charley. I'm not sure which of that crew actually did that - but I'd be willing to bet it was one of the ones out of prison now. Charles is never going to go free - so maybe justice is served here.

Marshal Applewhite - that guy was seriously insane. I definitely don't think of him as being a death penalty case. He might have been dangerous within his little group of persons (obviously he was!) - but Jim Jones and Marshal Applewhite types - they don't go about killing folks - they've got a serious mental illness. My two cents.


Jason R. Manning profile image

Jason R. Manning 4 years ago from Sacramento, California

@Wes, forgive the crude analogy, but Hitler didn't physically have any blood on his hands and yet he would be put to death for war crimes, crimes against humanity and a long laundry list of offences. Why is old Charlie different? What if the leader of Heavens Gate, Marshal Applewhite was still alive? Would you hold Marshal culpable for talking everyone into mass suicide, but refusing to do the deed himself? (luckily he ate the pudding)


tsmog profile image

tsmog 4 years ago from Escondido, CA

hello fpher48. I really didn't know much about the subject of your hub until today. Before commenting I read the many accounts at Wikipedia realizing it is really more like a phenomena than a history lesson.

I was 15 at the time it occurred. I really don't remember it. And, haven't seen any movies regarding it either. Or, read any books. So, ignorant to some degree other than media tid-bits up until now.

After reading the wiki account I have no desire to learn any further regarding it. The complexity of the events on many planes of understanding is beyond my comprehension. (TG)

Coming upon this hub today, for me, is odd & interesting. Reading the comments I'm amazed at the diversity of views. And, I commend you for responding to each. You are courageous for sharing.

Regarding a parole, I doubt it.


Kim Cantrell profile image

Kim Cantrell 4 years ago from Deep In The Pages of a Book

I'm a Libra and yes, we do have a tendency to weigh (and fpher, I understand what you say about your Mom - describes my parenting style to "T") both sides well but I can say my scale says CHARLES MANSON IS WASTING GOOD OXYGEN! I say strap him in, fire it up, and make him a distant memory.

Harsh? Sure. But it's not like he's one of those guys who could possibly be innocent. Sharon Tate died much younger than Manson is now and the baby she was carrying - well, what if that child cured cancer? Was the one who saved your mother, sister, brother, father with a kidney or bone marrow transplant? Or the inventor of something more awesome than the internet?

Who knows what Charles Manson and his "family" took from this world? But we sure know what he's sucking from it now and it's time for him to get the hell out!


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 4 years ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

Neil....I get it.....the fact is, Manson himself didn't do the dastardly deeds, he orchestrated them from start to end....When it came down to physical confrontations, Charley was a coward. He stood only 5'2" and weighed about 120# on a good week.....when the dumpster diving by his female worshippers was successful.


Neil Horton profile image

Neil Horton 4 years ago from Greenwood, Arkansas

Fpherj48.... I think it was Manson who love his victims to pieces........oh man that was bad form of me. lol


Sunshine625 profile image

Sunshine625 4 years ago from Orlando, FL

Done?! Not!!:)


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 4 years ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

alastar...It's cool. I appreciate your beliefs and attitude. I'm an Aries and we tend to be bleeding hearts (always defending the underdog)& to be perfectly honest with you, I did feel a tiny twinge of pity for Leslie when I saw her last interview on the tube....

hmmmmmMy mother was a libra (the balanced scales?) that's funny...really funny. There was her side of the scale and then was her side of the scale,....lol

SUNSHINE AND WESMAN !!! OK...OK...Thank you very much for the early birthday wishes. Very sweet of you. I love you both to pieces......Now, we're done with the BD thing, right?? all done.


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 4 years ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

Wes....California is not at all likely to reinstate the death penalty, so it's pretty much a moot subject.

All due respect my buddy, my pal....whom I choose NOT to argue with...(I guess we can call it a healthy debate?).....Manson did not have "visible" blood on his hands. True. He did not physically commit the ACT of murder. True. You admit he had culpability. I suggest he was the producer/Director and literally the DRIVING force, (since he drove them to the murder scenes, along with his explicit instructions)....this goes beyond simple culpability. yes? no? C'mon, be fair and real.

Anyway, cutey....I happen to be anti-Capital Punishment, due to the ludicrous and RISING number of Innocent people left on death row for (often) decades....and worse, the rising number of those Innocents who are executed.

They would all have been fried had California not abolished the DP.....but the fact is, Calif. did and these folks have remained locked up for 40 years.

Manson's obsession with being a recognized musician had a whole lot to do with his anger and hatred and desire to make someone "suffer" for what he felt were unfair slights and rejection.

Read "Helter Skelter".....Now I'm off to find Guns n Roses and listen to Charley's song.


Wesman Todd Shaw profile image

Wesman Todd Shaw 4 years ago from Kaufman, Texas

HAPPY EARLY BIRTHDAY EFFER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Sunshine625 profile image

Sunshine625 4 years ago from Orlando, FL

By the way, I didn't intend to steal Charley's thunder. Ok, yes I did.


Sunshine625 profile image

Sunshine625 4 years ago from Orlando, FL

Word on the hub street is someone has a birthday coming up on April 10th. Could it be Effer's birthday?!?! YES it is!! Happy early birthday!!


Alastar Packer profile image

Alastar Packer 4 years ago from North Carolina

Appreciate the info jpherj. Don't get me wrong on the lovely creatures. Being a Libra one tends to weigh both sides of any question looking for justice lol and that's why I mentioned Van Houten or whatever her surname is. Yeah, the song was recorded and is called-just checked - Never Learn Not to Love. Incredible isn't it. There's even a video with one of the Beach Boys singing it.


Wesman Todd Shaw profile image

Wesman Todd Shaw 4 years ago from Kaufman, Texas

When we talk about capital punishment...I want Charles left totally out of the pro death penalty debates, and the reason is simple....he didn't kill anyone.

Oh certainly Mr. Manson shares some culpability for the Manson family murders - but without blood on ones hands....I just can't ever support a death sentence.

You know....I had no idea that he'd been a singer/song writer until Guns N' Roses came out with "The Spaghetti Incident," where they do a wonderful cover of "Look At Your Game, Girl."


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 4 years ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

Alastar...Good to see you. I agree with you on the main reason parole will never be granted to any of these lovely creatures.

Lynette (Squeaky) Fromme, 63 yrs. old, was not charged in the California murders. However, she went on to bigger, more important activities in her attempted assassination of President Gerald Ford on Sept. 5th, 1975. For that little trick, she served 34 years of a life sentence. During her prison career, she was moved from the original prison to another, for an attack on a fellow inmate with the claw-end of a hammer. Soon enough, she escaped that 2nd prison but was quickly snatched up by the authorities 2 days later. She was headed out to find "Charley." of course.

Apparently someone in the judicial system came out of their coma and realized that little Squeaky was not operating on all cylanders and sent her to Carswell Federal Medical Center in Fort Worth, Texas until her release on Aug. 14th 2009. It is thought she now lives smack dab in the very middle of MY State of New York, in Onieda County. It's plenty far enough away from me and she can just STAY there.

I don't know if I've ever heard the Beach Boys song written by Manson. If I have, I wasn't aware I was listening to an original by the one an only.


Alastar Packer profile image

Alastar Packer 4 years ago from North Carolina

This is a very good article on Manson fpher. Always been a bit fascinated by his 'family'. The reason I believe neither Charley or any of the killers will ever be released is because of their high profile. No parole board is going to want to be known as the one that sets them free. Look at Van Houtens? case: she was a brain-washed teenager high on dope when she was involved in the LaBianca murders. Over 40 years later and still gets turned down every time. Many killers have been paroled far sooner than 40 years despite the number and heinousness of their murders if any can be considered worse that is. Btw, have you heard that song the Beach Boys recorded of one of Charley's songs? Oh and did Squeaky get out and if so what's she doing now if you know.


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 4 years ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

Hey pop......Yes, Sir.... For nearly 78 years, we have all, in one way or another, supported Charley's existence. Of course, California has paid the bulk of his living expenses. Their Prison system has even gone the distance to keep him "safe," away from the balance of the prison population.....so no one can hurt or attempt to do in poor little Charley. Isn't that special?

In the interim...as Manson has lived free & carefree....hundreds of wrongly convicted (INNOCENT) men have spent more than half their lives behind bars and/or executed.

The most "wonderful" Justice System in the Universe? Maybe so in many ways.....but the room for IMPROVEMENT is astronomical. I'm just sayin.........


breakfastpop profile image

breakfastpop 4 years ago

I can't believe that creep is still alive and living off our dime.


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 4 years ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

Susan.....If you read anything about his life, from the very start, he was destined to be famous. Unfortunately, he took the wrong path. He is evil simply because he's seriously messed up mentally.

No way that he should mingle with society. He knew precisely what he was doing with the young drifters he lured into his cult. He molded them into murderers.

Susan, the justice system is more screwed up than Charley. The thing with dropping the sentence from Capital Punishment to LIFE is ludicrous. That sort of change in a State's system should take effect on the date it is proclaimed. Anyone sentenced prior to, should remain on Death Row. BECAUSE.....FYI, should it be changed again, back to a DP sactioned State......it would not change their LIFE sentence. Tell me how the law makers justify that mess!

I didn't have to do any research. I followed this case like the world followed OJ, Scott Peterson and Casey Anthony. I've read every book and every article.....met Vincent Bugliosi in person and have periodically kept up with the whole bunch of those lunatics.

The females have all claimed to be transformed into loving, remorseful, compassionate Christians. Sounds like an old tune, too often sung from behind bars, if you ask me! No one seesm to care what they've become.


sholland10 profile image

sholland10 4 years ago from Southwest Missouri

Paula, we DID DO IT AGAIN! LOL I hope my question and your answer leads people here. I couldn't post anything there, but I agree with you - he shouldn't get parole and he should have been grandfathered into the death penalty. He rants about how innocent he is, "I didn't kill those people!" but he brainwashed others into doing it.

Great research! The pictures are creepy... There is definitely evil in the man!


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 4 years ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

Vincent Bugliosi is doing well and YES he is still writing. He wrote an incredibly fabulous book on George W...........but if you are (were) a "Bush" person, you will not want to read it. It is pretty damned clear Bugliosi would like Bush behind bars.

I loved the book, not only because Bugliosi is one of my top 5 favorite authors, but I despise the sight of George Bush.


farmloft profile image

farmloft 4 years ago from Michigan

Helter Skelter is a great book about these horrors. Wonder what happened with Bugliosi - is he still writing?


Kim Cantrell profile image

Kim Cantrell 4 years ago from Deep In The Pages of a Book

Thank you, Jason. :)


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 4 years ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

Cardisa....rest easy my friend. there is NO chance Charley will ever be let out of his cage. He's a complete lunatic..

..

Hi there Jason....thanks for coming to my house! As for Charley and his band of baboons....their original sentence was the fair one (Death Penalty)...but they lucked out.

However, they've had no luck, no break, no leniency, no NUTTIN! from the parole board, the public, the media...etal.......

I met Vincent Bugliosi (my hero) in person years ago after "Helter Skelter" was published. He gave a phenomonal TALK at the State University nearby.


Jason R. Manning profile image

Jason R. Manning 4 years ago from Sacramento, California

Hi Fpherj48, I knew there had to be a connection with your comments to my piece and what you wrote here. I must say, great bio on Charlie, good job of fact gathering. You must have cringed writing out the acts and weapons used? To your point, he is convicted without a shadow of doubt, to my point, why hasn’t this guy been bled out?

@ Kim Cantrell, I love your comments, very succinct and accurate, great replys, had me nodding my head.


Cardisa profile image

Cardisa 4 years ago from Jamaica

Even so far as Jamaica, the name sends shivers up one's spine. I hope he dies in prison and is never released.


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 4 years ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

Hi there Kim....True Crime buddy. And this crime was far too real and gruesome. It amazes me that Charley is still hangin in there, flappin his jaws and flippin out. He especially loves it when the cameras are rolling. He is sooooo pathetic.

sensush 23....No need to be concerned my friend. Most other Manson Family members are in the same age bracket as their lunatic leader. There is no reason to think a single one will ever be granted parole.

Even Susan Atkins, who begged for a Mercy release due to her terminal brain cancer, was DENIED.

That pretty much demonstrates the stance of the Parole Board where these clowns are concerned. Thank you for your input. Peace!


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 4 years ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

Martie

I too am brought back to the same feelings of horror whenever this group of monsters are mentioned. The most frightening side of this entire story, to me, has always been that in a matter of months, a couple dozen, originally average, basic individuals, were transformed into savage, heartless & cold blooded executioners, by a 5'2" uneducated, unstable, delusional drifter.


sen.sush23 profile image

sen.sush23 4 years ago from Kolkata, India

I heard something about how notorious he was, Charles Manson, but really I did not know the gruesome details of this entire crime. You have covered all the details and I now know the story. I am sure he will not be allowed parole, nor does he look stable mentally in the latest pictures of his available on the net. But yes, I am more concerned about the younger family members, who may yet be granted parole.


Kim Cantrell profile image

Kim Cantrell 4 years ago from Deep In The Pages of a Book

@2besure, if you orchestrate a crime (ie, order your followers to kill), you are just as culpable as those who did it. Without ol' Charley's instructions, there would have been no murder; hence, he is a murderer.

@rlaframboise, you're right, in the whole scheme of things, to incarcerate for life than to execute. But there's a couple of things wrong with that: (1) People like Charles Manson LOVE their fame in and out of prison and thrive on it. They should be executed for the sole purposes of taking away their enjoyment just as they did their victims and (2) Each prisoner incarcerated takes up space and leads to the overcrowding numbers, which in turn sets free, by federal and state mandates, such as first time (but not last) rapists, child molestors, and other sorts of plagues. I say spend more to send one prison to his maker rather than waste space that could be used for another scab on our society.

@fpher - gracious creator of this hub (and probably should have been addressed first but you know how I get...lol), we all know Charley darlin' isn't getting out but we can all hope his maker comes calling for him soon so he can quit, as I always say, wasting good oxygen.


MartieCoetser profile image

MartieCoetser 4 years ago from South Africa

The murder of Sharon Tate and friends by Charles Manson and his family made a tremendous impact on me when I was 15. I could not believe that people were able to commit such brutal murders. At that time I was still totally unaware of what went on outside my own social zone, which included actors and singers. If Sharon Tate was not an actress, I would not have been interested in reading the article. I was absolutely stunned. I still have the article, cut out and pasted into an album I had for actors.

fpherj, I've read this hub of yours word for word with great interest, as this is the first time in my adult life I've taken the opportunity to read about Manson again; I was surprised to experience exactly the same emotions I had experienced at the age of 15. Total disgust...

Sadly, brutal, inhuman murders like that are committed frequently in our country for the past few decades. The victims are mostly our farmers, the feeders of our country, who are regarded by sick souls as 'white trash who had created Apartheid', and senior citizens in towns and cities.

Oh, Mason's coming visit before the board is simply routine in accordance with legal policy and procedures. His mental disorder, so typical in con-artists, is incurable. He will certainly never be released.

Thank you, fpher, for this most interesting hub :)


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 4 years ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

2besure....I won't let you have it....you're too nice for that. But really dear, these people were lost, unintelligent, easily manipulated, drug-crazed BOOBS. In their life and their way of thinking....YES, they did have to kill....for Charley, for the FAMILY , for the good of the human race.....they were your basic Morons.

To relate them or anything they did to you or to me is totally impossible...as you noted.

I thank you for stopping by. Always nice to meet someone new and get their input!! Peace!


2besure profile image

2besure 4 years ago from Charlotte, North Carolina

Every time I watch anything about Manson, I feel the same way. He didn't kill anyone! He is crazy yes, anti-social, and vile; but he had not part in actually committing those horrible acts. He is guilty of knowledge of a crime and or aiding and abbeting someone who has commit a crime. Guilty after the fact. Case in point: fpher48, If I tell you, "I don't like the people that live in the house on Main Street, in your town. Go there tonight and kill everyone in the house." What are you going to do? Exactly...nothing, because you have common sense and you brain is not fried by acid. The "Family" did not have to act on Manson's orders. They could have got in the car and kept on going. They willingly murdered innocent people. OK, let me have it...


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 4 years ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

Hey Phoebe...I'm sure you're right....not to mention the fact that he's 100% looney Tunes crazy as hell!! lol thanks for stopping by! Appreciate your visit.

Neil...I did mention that fact you mention in my hub...about the change in their sentence and why. However, in addition to the many people affected by crazy Charley....the Prison System wouldn't DARE release him. At nearly 78, how much longer can the Cockoo bird keep breathing? He is so "OUT THERE." It's hard to believe his brain can even send out direction to the rest of his body!! Stop by anytime, Neil...I like the name Neil so much, I made it my son's middle name!


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 4 years ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

bill... thanks for stopping by. I'm sure it does feel like yesterday. The impact this case had on us all back then was pretty severe. Had I brought the "specifics" re their connection to the crime, into this hub, it would be a Book instead.

Suffice it to say that Charley's drug-crazed MORONS did all but leave personally written and signed confessions for the police at the murder scenes.....


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 4 years ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

riaframboise...I was thinking more in terms of his age as well as the danger of other inmates having killed him by now. I know why he hasn't been executed. I just wish he'd stop breathing because he's wasting our oxygen.


Neil Horton profile image

Neil Horton 4 years ago from Greenwood, Arkansas

Originally, Manson was sentenced to death, but his sentence was later commuted to Life In Prison. due to a change in California Law. He will never get out of prison. There are too many who are still alive today who were affected by this monster.


Phoebe Pike 4 years ago

Odds are, they won't let him out. If they did, he would probably be killed within a week. A lot of people still hate him for what he did.


billybuc profile image

billybuc 4 years ago from Olympia, WA

Well my dear, that was uplifting! :) I remember it like it was yesterday; I don't remember the specifics of why they were suspected of the murders so I'll have to look that up. Well-written of course; have a great weekend!


rlaframboise profile image

rlaframboise 4 years ago from 1776

He is still breathing because it is cheaper to incarcerate for life than execute in most cases.


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Sunshine625 4 years ago from Orlando, FL

I read that book! I forgot about it! Ugh. I so dislike him.


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fpherj48 4 years ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

Thanks Sunshine....I happened on the news about his 12th parole plea coming up...I said the same thing you did..What the Hell is that creep still breathing air for?

I was seriously into all of this as it happened (kind of like the Casey thing) I read every book and watched every Docu.

I also went to SUNY Fredonia one night to hear Vincent Bugliosi speak after he wrote "Helter Skelter" and I met him and got his autograph in my copy of the book.


Sunshine625 profile image

Sunshine625 4 years ago from Orlando, FL

I forget that his peeps called him Charley. I can't believe he's still alive. He should have been kicked to the curb and in the sewer a long time ago. I was only 7 when his freaks killed those innocent peeps, but I remember it. His bonfire is waiting. Interesting hub Effer.

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