Can States Secede From The United States Of America?

The answer is yes, they can secede from the United States of America and become their own independent form of government. The answer to this question is traced back to the Declaration of Independence. Our founding fathers felt that the people had the right to leave the country and form their own government, when this government became destructive of the people who live in it.

This started one week after Obama won the election to become President of the United States of American and thus was able to start his second term in office. It started slowly, a couple from Owasso, Oklahoma started a petition to allow Oklahoma to become it's own government. After that it began to grow rapidly.

At this point in time there are over 16 states are trying to secede from the United States of America. Not the politicians who represent the states, but the people who live in the states. They have signed petitions on the White House Website, telling the president that they wish to leave the USA and form their own government.

There are many reasons they wish to do this. The economy is horrible, many people no longer have jobs, many hate Obama Care, many feel Obama is a socialist or a Muslim. But, people have also stated they are worried about the United States being part of the New World Order!

Texas is one of the states that has joined the petition to leave the USA and form their own government, but at this point in time, Rick Perry has denied that that will ever happen.

But, what would happen if states ever left the Union? How would they protect themselves from other countries? Would they have their own currency? It is a complicated issue. Many people are very angry that Obama has become President.

At this point in time, people are only signing petitions and the White House is ignoring them. But a little while ago a Judge, who I wrote about in another hub, warned of a civil war, if Obama became President for a second term.

Are States going to be able to leave the United States, or do you think that there just might be a second civil war here?




More by this Author


Comments 55 comments

billybuc profile image

billybuc 4 years ago from Olympia, WA

I don't think it would ever happen, but in all honesty, if a majority of citizens in that state wanted to, I say let them. I would rather we have a United States than one torn about by strife like we now have.


teaches12345 profile image

teaches12345 4 years ago

I have not heard of this, Michele. I can see how many people would want to do this as the country is not really seeing any economic improvement and the healthcare issue is a puzzle! I don't know if there would be a civil war, but there certainly could be some riots. You pose a lot of interesting questions here, such as what would they do about safety and protection. Thanks for the update and news. I am keeping this in mind an prayer. God bless you.


rabbit75 profile image

rabbit75 4 years ago

This is a very interesting subject, and I'm not quite sure there is a correct answer to this one. For the judge that did warn that if Obama got re-elected there may be another Civil War, could be correct.

However, should somebody not run for office because of fear, or should someone not vote because of fear? I'm personally sick of don't vote for Republican because you'll be seen as a racist, or don't vote Democrat or you'll be seen as socialist.

We live in a democracy where we have the right to vote, and that vote is precious. Do I expect to win all the time? Do I expect to get my way all the time? No! This country is a two-party system for a reason, so we don't live in a total dictatorship.

I remember when I was a kid and I told my dad I was going to run away. My father just simply looked at me and said, "Well, if you think you'd be happier living someplace else, go ahead."

Stubborn me actually did. I ran away for two straight days living off of Starbursts and sleeping inside the tube slide at my elementary school playground. Needless to say, I eventually went back home.

For the people in the states that do want to succeed, I can't convince them to stay. That's just like trying to convince a woman to be my girlfriend when she has no interest in me whatsoever.

Do we stop doing things we think is right out of fear? If a child throws a temper tantrum for not getting his way, does a parent buckle in the next time out of fear of that child throwing another tantrum? I see some parents do this all the time.

The south has always been threatening to succeed from the union since the conception of The United States and that had everything to do with abolishing slavery and economic reasons. The south had held power for a long time in early America because they produced our two main exports - tobacco and cotton. If anything was on the table in government that they didn't like from the North, they threatened to succeed.

When they realized they weren't going to get their way when industrialization boomed and gave the North strength enough to really challenge slavery, the south succeeded because they did not get their way.

If there are people out there who would rather prefer to live under a one party government, who am I to stop them?


Larry Wall 4 years ago

Michele:

I have to disagree with you on the ability of the states to succeed from the Union. The Civil War pretty well defined that fact. The Supreme Court has stated that states may succeed if it is approved or by revolution. Succession by any state would be foolish. For instance, in Louisiana would leave the union, the state would lay claim to the mouth of the Mississippi River and could then charge tolls to all freight to make up for the federal assistance they would not be receiving.

People living in states that succeed from the union might lose their federal benefits such as Social Security and Medicare, since they would no longer be citizens of the United States. Federal Food insurance would not be available and all of the other benefits of being part of the union would cease. I do not think there is going to be any succession because I do not see what any state think it could gain. Also as I noted in a response to a question about this subject it should be remembered that many of the states are on land acquired by the federal government through purchase, such as all the states that are part of the Louisiana Purchase, Alaska, etc. I think this is just some foolishness started because some people did not like the outcome of the election. If a state would succeed if could not expect help from FEMA in the case of emergency, their exports could be subject to special restrictions, the National Guard would not be available. Airport security would be a bigger problem and you might need a passport to travel from an independent state to the United States.

I was going to do a Hub on this but you beat me to it. In the Civil War there was the issue of the industrialized north vs. the agrarian south. That is not the case today. We are all interdependent upon each other. If all the southern states would succeed the federal government would lose access to the territorial waters in the Gulf of Mexico where the second largest source of revenue for the country comes through oil and gas royalties would belong to the southern states. Major airport hubs like Chicago, Detroit and New York would be part of another country.

Like it or not as the Pledge of Allegiance states we are "one nation under God, indivisible with liberty and justice for all."


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 4 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

Thank you for your comment bill. It was on the news, and was very interesting. I don't think it will happen.


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 4 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

Thank you teaches, it is in the news. But as for now, I don't think it is going to happen. Yes, people are angry, but there is too much to lose. How can people stay safe, if a state is alone?


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 4 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

rabbit75 What you just wrote is true, I just don't think they would be able to live on their own for a very long time.


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 4 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

Larry, actually we do agree. They do have the right, if they are approved. but would not be able to make it on their own. At least that is what I was thinking.


faythef profile image

faythef 4 years ago from USA

Wow ..I didn't realize it could really happen..I have seen it all over face book....but just thought it was a joke...Hmm its going to be interesting to see what happens..


North Wind profile image

North Wind 4 years ago from The World (for now)

I read about this, Michele, and I was intrigued. I was not aware about it before but from what I read, there has to be a certain amount of signatures before the White House recognizes the petition to secede and even then it is more like a recognition of the people's dissatisfaction and nothing to do with letting them secede if they so choose.

Anyway, whatever the case, I am interested to see how this continues.


Dennis AuBuchon profile image

Dennis AuBuchon 4 years ago

Interesting hub. This has been in the news and now from what I understand all states now have petitions to succeed from the United States. I do not think it will happen for the reasons mentioned in your hub and the responses. I do however believe the actions of all the states to initiate these petitions may perhaps make our federal government take notice. The fact that all states have initiated these petitions should signal that something needs to change. Let us hope this activity is a wakeup call to Congress and the federal government as a whole.


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 4 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

faythef No it isn't a joke, but I don't think it could happen, but it is going to be interesting to see what comes next.


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 4 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

Thank you for your comment North Wind. I don't think the White House will let them secede, but the White House will have to realize how people feel. After all, there are probably going to be more people signing the petition.


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 4 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

Dennis, I agree with you. It is time for the government to wake up and finally listen to the people. I am kind of crazy when it comes to the voting process. The people in the government need to know that " we the people" are the bosses. By voting for them, we are their bosses. We have hired them and we can fire them.


Mhatter99 profile image

Mhatter99 4 years ago from San Francisco

You must be listening to Texas news talk radio. They have been talking about this since Friday. Thank you for this.


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 4 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

Thank you for your comment Mh. I wonder if this will just calm down, or if some idiot will make it worse. I have no idea.


lrc7815 profile image

lrc7815 4 years ago from Central Virginia

Michele, I won't repeat what a lot of others have said but, this is a growing movement and in my opinion, it is a movement sliding down a dangerous slope. Frankly, I don't think anyone who would sign a petition to secede is worthy of being a citizen of the USA. Second, I want to scream at them and remind them that this is a free country. If they want to go live in Russia or China or Afghanistan, there is nothing stopping them. I'll even give them a ride to the bus stop. No wonder our country is in such a mess. One fourth of its citizens are living in a bubble. Oh yeah, great hub. I'm glad you brought this subject here and you did a great job. As of yesterday, 42 states had petitions. Arggghhh!


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 4 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

Thanks for your comments. 42 states, but how many people in those states? Not the entire state. There is a huge difference in the State and the people living in the State.


Lipnancy profile image

Lipnancy 4 years ago from Hamburg, New York

I guess my opinion is if they want to leave let them. But I think that they would be missing out on a lot of freedoms that we Americans take for granted like protection provided by the military. If they don't believe that they won't be vulnerable to takeovers, they are crazy. I am sure that many countries would not hesitate to take them over even to have a small foothold on US land.

Also think about all the non-profits that would fail due to the lack of Federal funding.

For once, I have to side with the politicians on this issue. They seem to understand the consequences of these actions more than the people advocating for succession.


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 4 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

Lipnancy I agree with you also on this one. But, so for it is only people signing petitions. The states are not actually trying to leave. Maybe it would let the politicians know what they are doing wrong. Well at least I hope it does.


Michael-Milec profile image

Michael-Milec 4 years ago

Hi Michele.

Very important subject and serious one.

In your opening sentence you answered "yes " . It's serious, perhaps scary .

The voice of the people represents cry for right and justice once they had when the God Almighty was in control of the Land formerly free .

Where does this , what's going on in the country , leads -- is unknown , though whole world is in the mid of the Book of Revelation prophecy being unveiled .

Watch and pray is being told to us who are on God's side .

He is, and will take care of his own even when they stay apart of the Washington's dictatorship .

Voted up and very useful

Be blessed of The Lord, sister.

Michael


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 4 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

Michael thank you, I have been blessed and am also praying that you be blessed. We know the times are coming. The good thing is that we are not alone.


lifegate profile image

lifegate 4 years ago from Pleasant Gap, PA

Michele,

Thanks for the update. I did hear something about this, but really didn't follow it that closely. I don't really see it happening although it could, as you say. Thanks again.


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 4 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

Thank you for your comment lifegate. Strange times, we are in.


Deborah Brooks profile image

Deborah Brooks 4 years ago from Brownsville,TX

Michele I did not know this was happening.. wow.. this is amazing.. I don't know what to think

happy thanksgiving

Debbie


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 4 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

Yes this is happening, and states are allowed to do this, but they probably won't. At this time it is only a petition. And there is so much to lose, SS, Medicare, Medicaid, safety, etc....


ImKarn23 profile image

ImKarn23 4 years ago

Yes, there are petitions...yes they technically CAN secede, BUT - they would be required to pay their fair share of the national debt before they could simply leave - AND - they'd lose all protection, travel, currency - EVERYTHING..

Civil war is possible also - and articles like this only lead us towards it - not away from it. If it's as you say that "The economy is horrible, many people no longer have jobs, many hate Obama Care, many feel Obama is a socialist or a Muslim" - HOW come so MANY voted him in for a second term? just because american history is behind us - doesn't mean it's done - it will never get to succession - as it isn't feasible or financially viable - but - continuing the ball rolling - keeping the treasonous banter going - certainly isn't helping..

if you're not part of the cure - you're part of the problem..


Larry Wall 4 years ago

I do not think a state can secede. The Declaration of Independence, while an important document from a historical point of view, it is not part of the law. It laid out what the colonies, as a group wanted in the way of rights and how the ruling authority of England had denied those rights. Those colonies as a group, fought revolution, created the Articles of Confederation, which did not provide for a strong central government, and later in 1789, 13 years after the Declaration of Independence was written, the Constitution was ratified, setting forth how the president would be elected, the membership of the House and Senate, and other far-reaching provisions including the Bill of Rights. I am not a constitutional scholar, but I do not think the constitution gives any state the right to secede from the union. However, as the Declaration of Independence notes that governments are created by the people, and the people have the right to change the government, but not for light or transient causes. I do not think one state can just drop out of the Union. I think it would take an act of Congress, perhaps an amendment to the Constitution, for the state to abandon its obligations to the union, and each state does have such obligations.

People are not happy. They are signing these petitions. People like us are writing about them, probably more than we should. As I stated earlier, many states are located on land purchased by the federal government, such as all the land in the Louisiana Purchase, which includes many states. Alaska was also purchased. We fought wars to protect some states, leading to Texas and California becoming states, while other states were carved out of territory claimed by the federal government or purchased from Native American Tribes. The song, "This Land is My Land, This Land is Your Land," comes to mind.

The talk of secession needs to end. The point has been made. People are not satisfied with current conditions. Thus, we all need to work by petitioning our Congress to set aside their partisan ways and find ways to solve these problems. As the song I mentioned above, notes, "this land was made for you and me." It has taken us a long time to recognize that "you, and me" includes all people. It is now time that the Congress represent all people and not just Republicans or Democrats or some other group. Their actions have to be actions that serve the masses but protect the rights of the individual. No one ever said it was going to be an easy job. It is, however, an important job that has been ignored in the past years not by the former and current Presidents, but by the Congress, which makes the laws, creates the programs, organize the regulatory agencies and with the President set the direction for the country.


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 4 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

ImKarn23 You are so correct, your words say it all. Also, so many people just listen to the internet, YouTube, things like that. Also a petition does not mean a vote. Many also voted for Obama. No, we won't have a civil war. Things are not the way there were in the past. The people who have jobs will not join in.

This is just a hub. This is not a call for people to leave, not it is a call for a civil a war.


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 4 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

I agree with you Larry, but the 10th amendment to the constitution says "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people." However, this cannot be chosen by a few people, just because they are angry. It is very complicated. It has also been amended, however if all the people in the states vote for it, and the gov. in that state decides to enact that it is possible for that to happen. But, it also has to be approved by both the GOP and the house. It is very complicated, but possible.

But, it is a very bad thing. Like you wrote states have tried to do it a few time in the past but it has never actually happened.

And please forgive me for writing this hub.


Larry Wall 4 years ago

Michele:

First you never need to apologize for writing a Hub. Your Hubs are well researched and well written. No apology is different. As I said I am not constitutional scholar, but not to rehash everything, many states such as Louisiana, are basically owned by the federal government since the government purchased the land and later granted the right to statehood. I just do not agree with those that there is a mechanism for a state to secede. I know the Louisiana Constitution--that was written when I was starting my career as a reporter so I know it pretty well, does not provide a procedure for leaving the union.

From a practical standpoint, all the states are so dependent upon the federal government for so many things, it would be a practical impossibility. Also, we could end up with 50 different types of currency--imagine trying to keep that straight.

If you had not written this Hub, I would had written one. So again, when I say the discussion needs to end, I mean I think it has been discussed enough and until some state actually tries to leave, which I doubt that any will, then we can renew the discussion.

Never apologize to me for writing something. As we have said we do not always agree, but we have good discussions. I drink my first cup of coffee around 8 a.m. central time. If you have a cup at 9 a.m. your time, we can virtual coffeebreak.

Larry


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 4 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

Larry, we did have coffee together his morning. Yours had no cream or sugar and mine had both. Both were good. We do like coffee.


girishpuri profile image

girishpuri 4 years ago from NCR , INDIA

A matter of great concern, let's hope for the best and I am sure,things would take a better shape, God bless.


Drtruthman profile image

Drtruthman 4 years ago from Harlingen, Texas

As I noted on Google+ Michelle, this is a well done and great article. I am currently working on a piece for my paper on this very topic. In doing so I discovered a few things you might be surprised to know that by now: all 50 states have signed petitions requesting "Peaceful secession" from the United States. That said however, Supreme Court Justice Anthony Scalia recently weighed in and pointed out that " the answer is clear. If there was any constitutional issue resolved by the Civil War, it is that there is no right to secede. (Hence, in the Pledge of Allegiance, “one Nation, indivisible.”) Secondly, I find it difficult to envision who the parties to this lawsuit might be. Is the State suing the United States for a declaratory judgment? But the United States cannot be sued without its consent, and it has not consented to this sort of suit." He went on to say that the Supreme Court would ultimately have to agree to even hear such a suit and it is highly unlikely that the Supreme court would even agree to hear the case or rule upon it. As such although in principal and based on many of the words of our founding fathers we have the right of "Peaceful secession" from the Union, the reality is that the only practical way of secession would be the same path as that which our founders ultimately had to take; REVOLUTION. In short, there is NO Peaceful Right of Secession. One last word, with the current administration in power, citizens might want to think twice before signing such a petition; it might come back to haunt you.


pramodgokhale profile image

pramodgokhale 4 years ago from Pune( India)

Yes,

I read this hub carefully and at this juncture it is difficult to predict. The iron curtain USSR was disintegrated , unbelievable. In USA there was civil war, issue was slavery . I am an Indian and we have 30 states and fourteen regional languages ,very complicated structure, but we formed and allowed every state to develop under central government, Democracy has roots in our country and constitution is written by experts.

India despite her problems , is advancing and our federation is going intact and strong. USA has advantages as single race(Anglo-Saxon) and language, India is a plural society , multifaiths, multilingual, some states are advancing and some states are lagging. Income disparity is problem in our society. We fought for freedom so we are always worried of our union and secession we can not imagine.

After WW II ,migration from different continents to USA began on mass scale, legal and illegal. Then USA became multicultural society.

Immigrants arrived with traditions and religious practices, division of community was imminent.

USA was sole power on the earth, uni polar world is certainly going to diminish and multi polar world is in making.

We assume that USA is most innovative and inventive, there should not be a problem to find solution to stabilize the nation as a strong Union

USA is open book while USSR, China are isolated and closed communities and nations.

I request separatists in America not to go extreme, it always fails.

USA will be one country and engine to global community.

Thank you for well written Hub. Thought provoking

pramod gokhale


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 4 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

girishpuri thank you for your comment. I think the U.S. is going to stay together, at least for a good long while.


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 4 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

Drtruthman What a wonderful comment. At this point it is only a petition. Not anything more than that. People have too much to lose. Even if it would not be allowed, how many in a state would really want to leave? Probably not that many.


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 4 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

pramodgokhale you have written a very good comment. I agree with what you wrote. I think the petitions will only be petitions.


pramodgokhale profile image

pramodgokhale 4 years ago from Pune( India)

Michele Travis,

Yes maam ,we enjoy freedom of expression because of strong democracy in USA and India. This is a gift, do not forget.

On the earth everbody is not lucky to have such previleges.

thank you for reply

pramod gokhale


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 4 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

You are very welcome pramod gokhale all of your answers and hubs are very intelligent and I appreciate them very much.


Highvoltagewriter profile image

Highvoltagewriter 4 years ago from Savannah GA.

I am working on a story about the second Civil War being fought between the Republicans and Democrats which after these latest developments does not seem that unlikely... My question is, if the Republicans had one would some of the "blue" states pull out as well? Interesting read!


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 4 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

Highvoltagewriter That sounds very interesting, and I would love to read it. I have been very busy and not on hubpages very much, but would still love to read it.


Highvoltagewriter profile image

Highvoltagewriter 4 years ago from Savannah GA.

It won't be on HP, for I do not write on HP that much right now. I will keep you posted on were you can read it!


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 4 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

Thanks, I appreciate that very much.


lone77star profile image

lone77star 3 years ago from Cebu, Philippines

Michele, a thought-provoking article.

I think @pramodgokhale gives the USA too much credit for being an open book. If anyone ever wanted to build a tyrannical government, the best way would be to keep alive the illusion of openness and transparency. Goebbels achieved this in Nazi Germany, for awhile.

The Corporate Party media in America has done a much better job of this illusion of transparency and choice, while fanning the flames of divisiveness and distraction to keep us bickering amongst ourselves while the final nails are driven the the coffin that America has become.

Does this sound extreme or alarmist? Perhaps it is, but it's easier to see such things when you're not saturated on a daily basis by that very same Corporate Party news media. For 5 years, I've lived in the Philippines. It took me 4 years to wake up.

I saw a YouTube video yesterday about military officers being asked if they would be willing to fire on American citizens if so ordered by the President. Those who said "no," were asked for their immediate resignations. Those who said "no" were obeying the Constitution above the President. But since the President no longer adheres to his Oath to the Constitution, he acts above the law. Combined with talk of numerous government agencies (non-military, non-law-enforcement) stocking millions of rounds of ammunition, there seems to be in the air the feel of iron doors closing.

When Obama promised to restore habeas corpus and not to use the Constitution-busting signing statements Bush had used, I thought he might be a good guy. When he promised not to renew the unPatriot Act, I thought even better of him. And when he declared that he would stop the war in Iraq immediately, I was all Obama. What a joke that was.

Gee, how some honeymoons don't last the evening. More signing statements than you can shake stick at, he renewed the unPatriot Act, signed the NDAA (with its indefinite detention clauses for Americans), created a "Kill List" which included Americans, never restored habeas corpus, and killed posse comitatus. Not only that, he was caught saying that all Gitmo prisoners should stay there even if found not guilty! Sieg heil!

The first amendment and free speech have already been assaulted numerous times. HR 347 makes it a felony to protest what the government is doing. SOPA, PIPA, CISPA, TPP and other pieces of legislation were poised to censor the internet and to give individuals with no oversight the ability to kill websites on whim. Hitler and Goebbels would've loved this.

I love America, but I hate what Bush, Clinton, Bush and Obama have done to it. And all those greedy, lobbyist-loving congressmen haven't helped.

I hate the fact that Mayor Giuliani gets away with felony destruction of crime scene evidence, even having some of it shipped to China. I hate the fact that the military officers responsible for the security failures on 9/11 all received promotions instead of courts martial.

I hate the fact that the Corporate Party media puts such a stranglehold on the discussion of 9/11 by making it seem that those who disagree with the official "conspiracy theory," are somehow "conspiracy theory nuts." Thousands of scientists, engineers and architects disagree and call the government scientists' work fraudulent. (www.AE911Truth.org)

But the laws of physics are pretty simple.

I believed the Bush conspiracy theory for 10 years, but only because I had never looked. The Corporate Party news made that an easy behavior to assume, bombarded as we had been with such hypnotic repetition -- terrorism, terrorists, Osama Bin Laden, Al Qaeda and terrorism, saving the world from terrorism, War on Terror, and the like.

Imagine for a moment if you chopped the side of a tree and the tree fell straight down, through the trunk, into a pile of sawdust. You'd be surprised, wouldn't you? Trees chopped on the side usually fall over to the side -- not straight down.

Asymmetrical damage NEVER leads to symmetrical collapse through the path of greatest resistance, but this is the lie the government scientists have tried to sell us.

Those same scientists have made it popular to think that a steel beam skyscraper can collapse at free fall acceleration without controlled demolition. Only in cartoons and government reports. By their calm and indignant stance, I am a "nut." So be it. And many Germans were "nuts" 80 years ago. Not many of them survived.

It makes me weep to see how so many Americans think such disagreements with the official "conspiracy theory" have been thoroughly debunked. One professional journalist told me this. But when asked for his sources so I could educate myself, he said he didn't have any. Besides he didn't have time to be bothered with such nonsense. [cringe!]

His proof regarding the biggest crime in American history is only hearsay? And he can't be bothered with facts? Aye, chihuahua! (a Texan's statement of alarm)

Even if 9/11 was only about an isolated case of mass murder, it would still be relevant. There's no statute of limitations on murder, unless Obama creates one with his signing statements, or gives all those responsible a presidential pardon.

But 9/11, even today, affects policy and the creation of laws. People are still dying as a result of policies created because of 9/11. This includes tens of thousands of innocent men, women and children -- even today! The lies are pretty thick, and Obama smiles while tyranny tightens its noose on Liberty. Bush laughs because no one found WMDs in Iraq, yet thousands of our troops died because of his lie. He's laughing all the way to the bank, just like his friends, the Bin Laden family, Cheney, and others. No one seemed to say a thing about conflict of interest when Halliburton got all those juicy contracts in Iraq. Cheney had been CEO and still received remuneration. Fat payday, there!

9/11 was an inside job, because the 3 buildings which collapsed in New York that day could only have been brought down by controlled demolition, and it takes months to prepare such buildings. The Bush-family-run security company and even the CIA (tenant of the smaller of the 3 buildings) would've known about such preparation. I really don't think they would've been that clueless or incompetent, though Bush had a penchant for portraying that aura. Could that have been why he was brought in as President? Plausible deniability? Some election officials in Florida are still smarting over irregularities in the electronic voting -- including negative votes for Gore. How do you get negative votes? That's like a negative 3 feet. How tall are you? Less than nothing! Really?

Secede? America was built on secession -- from England! It's in our blood to throw off tyranny. But perhaps we've become fat and lazy -- too attached to our cushy lifestyle. Normalcy bias keeps us from looking at the facts, even when they are whispered more and more loudly.

When the 16.3+ Trillion dollar national debt Bubble bursts, the dollar won't be worth squat, and the world economy will be in a shambles. Only those who knew this was coming will have a chance of thriving despite the chaos. Millions or even billions will die of the 4 horsemen. Famine, because dollars are needed to keep the agro machinery going, but no one wants dollars any more. Disease, because infrastructure fails and pure water is scarce. War, because that's what America has become good at. And we're leading by example.

It seems evident to me now, that the insanity of government overspending and accelerating national debt toward oblivion is by design. There is a certain degree of democracy in chaos, and this time, those with the greatest wealth will have the most votes. Welcome to the new world order. And I'm ashamed that some hubbers welcome it with open arms, despite the carnage it will cause.


Tom Koecke profile image

Tom Koecke 3 years ago from Tacoma, Washington

Hi Michelle!

I realize you wrote this several months ago, but this is the first time I've seen it.

I don't believe states have the right to secede. You cited the tenth amendment, but Article 1 Section 10 prohibits any state from forming an alliance or confederation. Neither the tenth amendment nor Article 1 Section 10 specifically say a state can or cannot secede, so both are somewhat conjecture.

So, if we go to the founding fathers' thoughts on the subject, we find that it was talked about during ratification. Both Virginia and New York tried to conditionally ratify the Constitution, but reserved the right to secede. The Constitutional Congress refused to accept conditional ratification.

Madison, the prime author of the Constitution, contended a state could only secede through revolution (paraphrased). Washington said the Constitution was perpetual, and that it could be changed by amendment only. Andrew Jackson contended that any attempt to secede would be regarded as a declaration of war. Lincoln said that states could only secede by agreement of all states.

It is fairly clear that the right to secede was not intended by the tenth amendment (despite what modern day Constitutional scholars may claim), and that the union is intended to be perpetual.

Even a business partnership and a marriage cannot be simply dissolved without agreement or a court's intervention. The Supreme Court decided in 1869 that a state does not have the unilateral right to secede (see Texas vs. White).

The petitions to secede several months ago were drawn up by uninformed people who, if they were school kids, would be called "sore losers." Cry as they may, the issue seems to have been settled over the past couple of centuries by founders' intent, civil war, and court decision.


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 3 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

I know you are correct. I have not been on hubpages for a while. But, last night I saw the Rachel Maddow show about the Iraq war, It was very interesting. About 9/11, the Iraq war, Cheney, and all that happened.

You can watch it here.

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/26315908/ns/msnbc_tv-rac...


junko profile image

junko 3 years ago

I wonder if those states which would secede will agree to pay the US Government to use out of state interstate highways? I wonder if each state will have their own constitutions or will they use the US Constitution? I don't think State's Rights and the Constitution of United States of America would work with independent divided states in America. Freedom of speech allows Amercans to say or sign almost anything, no matter if it makes sense or insane.


ahorseback profile image

ahorseback 3 years ago

Michele ! ....What I have done is to think , think , think , way too much !......and the result of my simple mind is this . This union of states that has done nothing but expand from its beginning , is a good and honest cause. People change again and again so politics has to as well ! My belief is that a secession of any states would be the beginning of a revolution or a civil war that the modern world has never seen the likes of before ! I think that we would be stepping backwards in evolution , in progress , and into a "new world danger "instead of order !......awesome hub ! Thought provoking !


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 3 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

Hi ahorseback, I agree with you. It would be a very bad idea, but my hubs are kind of weird.

Thanks for your comment!


ahorseback profile image

ahorseback 3 years ago

Ah !don't even go with "weird "today Michele ! You are an angel , don't forget it !....your buddy ! Ed


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 3 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

Thank you Ed,

your friend ! Michele


pramodgokhale profile image

pramodgokhale 3 years ago from Pune( India)

Michele Travis,

We interacted long back, Issue of separation and issues in India for more small states are boiling and populism to lure voters is another part of story. We establish states on linguistic rule and formed states to avoid confrontations on language issue. Today central government is going to form new state in south India and it stoked fire and our national integrity will be in danger but no one bothers.

In USA people should not think of secede , it is a dangerous game.

thank you

pramod gokhale


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 3 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

pramod gokhale

No state will secede. The people living in that state would have to vote. The majority would vote "No"

It was just an idea after President Obama won the last election.

But, you are so right, it is a very dangerous game.

Thank you for your comment, it is exactly right.


georgepjr profile image

georgepjr 3 years ago from Ohio

Michele,

I love absolutely love this hub, I have to say though that I don't feel like we are free anymore, the talk of civil unrest is really the only thing that has really come of this.

It's a dangerous game we are playing but if so said civil unrest did happen, you have a lot of American soldiers that would turn their back to fight for the people me included.

We can only hope that the government will wake up, let our votes count and walk away when we tell them to, I do beleive we are at the beginning of a new revolution.

Thanks for your post!

    Sign in or sign up and post using a HubPages Network account.

    0 of 8192 characters used
    Post Comment

    No HTML is allowed in comments, but URLs will be hyperlinked. Comments are not for promoting your articles or other sites.


    Click to Rate This Article
    working