Cannabis Maximus

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Between the desire, And the spasm
Between the potency, And the existence
Between the essence, And the descent
Falls the Shadow
For Thine is the Kingdom

For Thine is, Life is, For Thine is the

This is the way the world ends
This is the way the world ends
This is the way the world ends
Not with a bang but a whimper.

—T.S. Eliot, "The Hollow Men" (1925)

A rant of sorts:

Reality is deteriorating brick by brick, a purple haze illuminated alternate world is unraveling; one where large portions of America have dived deeper than ever into the prophecies of Huxley like vision. November 12, Friday afternoon, after a week and half of counting ballots, prop 203 was down over 3,000 votes from legalizing “medical marijuana” in the state of Arizona. November 15, Monday morning, Arizonan’s woke up to prop 203 miraculously passing on an overwhelming margin of 4,500 provisional ballots. Al Franken would be proud to see such a deficit overcome so auspiciously. For the life of me I am once again feeling righteous indignation and a touch of conspiracy theory.

As the 15th state to legalize pot, Liberal minds are applauding their self congratulatory stupor over another step in dumbing down America. Conservatives and moderate religious minds alike are silent on this issue. What is happening to our value system? Is this what our future will be relegated to, state by state, were going to legalize mind altering drugs until voter apathy transforms sanity into persona non grata? Fraud, self and public deception, plus the prevalent destruction of moral code seems very well to be the new modus operondi. My conspiracy theory mind is working overtime in light of this news, mostly because Arizona turned dark red from this last election. My interpretation of a state that overwhelmingly voted out democrats of all offices would translate into the pendulum swinging back to conservative, Christian values. So how the heck did we pass pot? How many Christians want to smoke a fat one while in the prayer circle with Jesus? How many hard working conservatives spend time in J town each night, making sure they provide all they can for their family? If you are thinking what I am, that would be a resounding zilch, at least it SHOULD BE!

American’s, question your government, question you officials, and question the motives behind marijuana supporters.

New Jersey Unemployment Line
New Jersey Unemployment Line
Larry, Moe and Curley
Larry, Moe and Curley

Getting to the nuts and bolts:

Okay, why are my undergarments in such a tizzy? Because I am stuck on the prophesized evolution of government control, in that we continue one foot in front of the other until our inevitable outcome is accomplished. I am not a defeatist in the sense that we are powerless to make positive change, it is more a working knowledge of signs, experience and all key indicators following the course set forth by history. In order to fully answer this question, I must change gears and topics, thus the only means I have for my over the top lament of legalizing marijuana.

The incremental nation wide legalization of marijuana is a testament to the ultimate mind control of American voters. Let’s look at a quick lie put forth by the “legalize Pot” platform. In 1996 California passed proposition 215 to legalize the use of “Medical Marijuana.” The proponents of this law ushered and wheeled out all of the saddest cases they could find for marijuana use, thus exploiting the real suffering of some patients for agenda proselytizing. Soon Alaska and Colorado would follow similar suit. Californians who wish to light up for “Medical” purposes received their wish, so why the need for proposition 219 in which all adults 21 and older can purchase and smoke at will? This is just the lie realized, undercover by the true worst case scenarios, the drug addicts and profiteers couldn’t actually stop their. Since the inception of California’s 2004 card issuant laws, the total number of cards issued through 2009 stands at 37,000, 13,000 of which are limited to San Francisco…this is too easy. Some of you are probably thinking that is an insignificant number and not worthy of news. Well friend, its 37,000 more than we knew of previously, and that is only California. Colorado is reporting more that 100,000 card holders. I couldn’t verify Michigan states numbers, but sources estimate 2009 card holders at around 65,000. This issue is growing and the odds are ever increasing for full legalization in another decade. As it is 15 states down, 35 to go (or if you’re the President, that would be 42 more to go). Proponents of marijuana are using the time tested methods of voter wear down; it has worked with gay marriage, unionization, eminent domain and adolescent teen confidential access to abortion. All these things undermine family values and place trust in elitist ruling classes.

Sources;

http://www.marijuanamedicine.com/

http://www.mapinc.org/newsnorml/v10/n815/a11.html

http://michiganmedicalmarijuana.org/index.php?app=ccs#

United Nations
United Nations

As I have stated in other articles, our government officials are really bright people (except slow Joe Biden). These officials operate under the cover of legal bodies, devising new laws, regulations and edicts which you and I “the little folk” will live under. It is not cynical of me to point out that members of congress do not live by the same principles or circles we do, they are and have been above the fray ever since our most erudite professor President Wilson. The controls advocated by the government work through multiple prong approaches.

1. Take control of the children who are overachievers by indoctrination in the University. Not even a liberal can protest their utter control of campus policy, the only thing stopping them from complete abolishment of free speech is entities like the Alliance Defense Fund, and once in a blue moon, the ACLU.

2. Mandate that all kids must go to college or they are destined to be bottom feeders, after all, the elite will berate independent minds that try to circumvent their system, and devise a future in which remedial jobs require degrees. (We're already there folks).

3. Give the uneducated marijuana, this will keep the rest of society pliable and too lazy to go out and vote.

4. Take over of family values through attrition. The 1960’s to present have shown a lack of fortitude by conservative families to instill strong values generation after generation. I wrote two hubs about this topic;

a. http://hubpages.com/hub/Moral-Atrophy

b. http://hubpages.com/hub/Barack-Obama-The-fault-of-the-right

5. California and New York have proved faithfully that no matter how lousy the leadership is, and no matter how bad the state economy is run into the ground, liberal values have triumphed. Just like 15 states passing marijuana propositions, it’s a game of attrition, and we’re not heeding historical facts.

There are those who will remain blind to scripture prophesizing a one world order. U.N. worshippers and our bower in chief only perpetuate this reality. Woodrow Wilson exalted the forming of the “League of Nations.” Today, we allow our enemy Mahmoud Ahmadinejad to enter the New York branch of this cowardice community. We are going to realize a day not to far off in which we transfer American sovereignty to the 10 kings, and one dragon. The indoctrinated will rejoice and the stoned will light up another roach in celebration. God help us all.

Do you think marijuana is good for American values?

See results without voting

Do you believe American will give up her sovereignty in the next 50 years?

See results without voting

Fast Times at Ridgemont High

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Comments 71 comments

rachellrobinson profile image

rachellrobinson 6 years ago from Southwest Missouri

I voted I am not sure, because I have always been of the mindset that just because a drug is legal that doesn't mean more people will do it. Tobbacco is legal and I have no desire to smoke, for your second pole I voted maybe it depends, because if we don't wake up and start fixing this mess it will, but I believe that there is still time and that people are coming around. All in all I liked your hub a lot, it was grounded in fact and had a great deal of interesting points. I might have to read it again when I am rested and can comprehend it better, which means I might want to change my vote, but all in all I like your message. I heard about you from jtcarr's hub, I think I'll have to start following you now.


Jason R. Manning profile image

Jason R. Manning 6 years ago from Sacramento, California Author

Rachel,

Thank you for being the first to comment on my hub, I appreciate your feedback. I think I was commenting on your hub for the first time at exactly the same moment you did mine. I would love for you to come back and explore your position on these subjects. Thanks. Cheers.


eovery profile image

eovery 6 years ago from MIddle of the Boondocks of Iowa

If it is evil, we should do our best to fight against it. Liberals are pointing fingers at us because we are on the same side as the drug lords on the legalization. Pretty sad how things end up sometimes.

Keep on hubbing!


Wesman Todd Shaw profile image

Wesman Todd Shaw 6 years ago from Kaufman, Texas

It's getting to where I'm excited to see that you've published another hub. I could possibly comment twenty pages worth of response to this-but I'll try to be semi-brief.

Question, and you don't have to answer-but I was under the assumption that you are a Law Enforcement officer. Doesn't matter. I like you well enough anyway.

I very much approve of your "dumbing down America" idea, it's legit in my not very humble opinion. . . .but I think that it's completely dumb and contradictory to logic for pot to be illegal. Why should Bronfsman make billions and billions for his Seagrams distilleries, and his son, another illuminist gangster-owns AOL, or other media outlets?

Pot isn't a drug-it's a plant. Me? I used to smoke it all of the time. Why don't I now? It's just not my thing. I'd much rather have you, or anyone, for that matter, as a guest, a passer by on the road, or simply a member of society-smoke pot than drink.

Do I drink? Yes-too much. I should be smoking pot, but I'm not. It's Fall, and Winter is on the way-I'm an air conditioning guru, and I need a part time job.

Conspiracy? Here's one for you, Jason-Monsanto. Think about that one-Monsanto Pot seeds. This is why even people like me, who APPROVE of pot smoking. . . .don't want it legalized.


Christine 6 years ago

Jason,

you make very good points. I like reading your points of view, it makes me rethink my own. =o)

I voted to legalize it. Because:

1. People who want it, get it regardless of it being legal or not.

2. If it were legalized, it could be taxed, and therefore generate $.

3. There are more reasons, but its late, and I can't remember them all.

Either way though, you are such a talented writer.

Keep up the good work.


Paraglider profile image

Paraglider 6 years ago from Kyle, Scotland

Maybe an intelligent society is one that trusts its members to think for themselves? In which case, bans and prohibitions are maybe not the way to go. Consider tobacco: its use is being discouraged by disallowing smoking in shared spaces, like workplaces, cafes and bars while allowing private use. That is OK, because non-smokers shouldn't have to breathe smokers'smoke. Many people have given up smoking as a result of it becoming socially unacceptable. Shouldn't marijuana be treated similarly?


tlpoague profile image

tlpoague 6 years ago from USA

I have heard good and bad stories of pot. I have even watched a documentary on the effects of smoking pot. People are finding many ways of dumbing themselves down. Look at the fixation of pain meds. I found that I couldn't vote on the first question simply because I see both sides of the picture. As for the second, I think it is easier for some people to bury their head in the sand thinking God or the people in power will save them before things get that far. It is all about making yourself aware of your surroundings. Great hub!! Thank you for sharing.


Jason R. Manning profile image

Jason R. Manning 6 years ago from Sacramento, California Author

Eovery,

Thank you friend, I clearly know where you stand on this position. It is quite a predicament we find ourselves in, not knowing where the end to this issue is. Keep up the good fight.

Mr. Todd,

You pay me a very worthy comment, a couple actually. How I answer you will be similar in how I answer Paraglider. I do understand what you are saying, and yes I have been around individuals who lit up in the past, all I can say about their behavior is it not only made me very uncomfortable, but their loss of cogent thought and competent motor skill really opened my eyes. I have also witnessed some horrific traffic deaths involving marijuana, in my eyes it wasn’t any different than alcohol. Todd, I really appreciate your coming back to challenge me, I will do my best to clarify my position and why. Your reference to me being an officer made me smile. Thank you friend, lets keep our discourse going.


Jason R. Manning profile image

Jason R. Manning 6 years ago from Sacramento, California Author

Christine; thank you for stopping by to read this, I sure hope you didn’t vote for full legalization in California, but your answer tells me yes. These things do have a trickle down effect, what becomes available to some, others will beg, barrow and steal to get. Certainly there are many more drugs people would like to see legalized because “people will find a way to get it.” Christine, I know you are not going to teach your little one that it is okay to smoke marijuana for the sake of smoking it. There is a fine line between doing, saying and allowing, which brings me to Paragliders point. Thank you Christine, I appreciate the time you afford me, and your nice compliment.

Hi Mr. Dave,

I do agree with your saying bans and prohibitions do not always play out the way they should. The 1930’s proved that beyond reasonable doubt. It is difficult for me to remove my bias as I wish to never be around marijuana, nor do I want my family exposed to it ever. At least in my case I speak from being around it, which in any case might play a harder hand in why I am so against it. Removing my filter for a moment, when I witnessed friends and co-workers light up, I had a deep sense of depression, sadness and utter disappointment. Let’s not mince words, those who use marijuana for other than medical purposes do so to escape reality. Social drinking is not even in the same plain as someone high on marijuana. Yes, a drunk isn’t much different, but the two social acts are very different. Needing to light up is saying to me life sucks and this is how I am going to deal with it. For those that still do this, sorry, I cannot help what I feel and see, your priorities suck, you need to make the best of life like the rest of us. I fall far short of doing all I can to help my fellow human, I make my efforts but I do not kid myself either. I attack priorities and values, marijuana isn’t a value, it is a priority and a lousy one.

Back to your first statement; I do not know the answers to what a balanced set of laws and liberties look like, I admit that. Because each of us has such differing thresholds, interests and priorities, a true balance may not exist. What is the middle ground between a holistic vegan and a drunkard meat eater suffering from gout? In the middle is moderation, so does the intellegencia legislate the two extremes? Certainly you wouldn’t prohibit the vegan because they make the most of least in life. Do you over regulate the drunkard to force changed behavior? Then the drunkard will wail and howl of unfair persecution while others lifestyles have not been impacted. I have touched this subject with you previously; knowing your intelligence and grasp of history gives you a deep sense of purpose and enlightenment. I respect your opinions Dave; I haven’t fully formed my own ambivalent expectation. These subjects make me sound self-righteous, I am aware of that, but I do this in quest of greater knowledge and understanding of my fellow man.


fred allen profile image

fred allen 6 years ago from Myrtle Beach SC

Times, they are a changein. Who would have thought 20 years ago that pot (which contains THC... A DRUG) would be legal in so many states. How many children wanted to grow up to become pot smokers? I agree that alcohol is no better and in fact worse. Does that make legalization of pot right? I also used to smoke it for years. It held me back from my potential. I wonder how much further I'd be now if I never started. Great hub Jason!


Jeremey profile image

Jeremey 6 years ago from Arizona

Stirring the "pot" are ya Jason! I wrote a couple article on prop 203 for a Mesa Internet Newspaper and came up with the "conspiracy theory" conclusion!My first article was before voting day and plans with Mesa City council were already in the works. I think they knew ahead of time- http://www.examiner.com/places-faces-in-mesa/mesa-... then after I wrote another one not much worth reading, but I thought the first one kind of relates to your conspiracy theory! I used to be a "social pot head" until I had kids and actually did a research paper and my final paper in "participation in government" class in high school on legalizing. I learned quite a bit about "pot". Are you aware that the human brain has synapses in it that only react to THC, it's in our system by nature! Never use it, never activate that part of your brain! I am more for it's industrial uses such as paper, rope, fuel, clothes, and on and on, and marijuana prohibition was actually financed way back when by "Dupont" and other companies who patented making paper from would pulp and chemicals and ran "hemp" underground. Hemp has an interesting history, and even believe there to be a mention of "the herb" in our holy book. I could go on forever, maybe I'll dig up my old high school report, update it some and hub on it. I do agree that legalization without proper regulation no doubt will influence the dumbing down effect, and Rich man George Soros is one of the biggest supporters of marijuana legalization and is quite the leftist extremist!


Wesman Todd Shaw profile image

Wesman Todd Shaw 6 years ago from Kaufman, Texas

Here's the thing, Jason-haven't you witnessed some horrible deaths and traffic accidents that involved completely sober individuals? Perhaps they were talking on the phone, or, even worse-texting while driving.

It's my position that despite the facts that most human cultures have evolved around alcohol. . . .that alcohol is still, in most cases, a more intoxicating, and dangerous substance.

I'm an addict. I know addiction better than most others, and I understand it better than a non-addict ever could.

Lets consider alcohol for a minute. For some people-some can drink a large amount of alcohol, have a fine time, bother no one, and still maintain their same personality that they always present. For other people, and I've seen this many times-one beer, ONE DROP of alcohol. . . .and it's as if they've become a different individual altogether. Those are your alcoholics. It's genetic, and spiritual. I don't bring up "spiritual" in some places or blogs, forums, whatever-but you, I think, will go for that one. To me, it's reality.

I do not want to say that marijuana can not, and does not change a person's very self in the manner that drugs like alcohol, meth, coke, heroin. . .whatever sometimes do. It very well may-but I've not seen that happen. It seems to me that pot just isn't a very strong mood altering substance-it's very, very mild to me. The worst possible thing that I might do under the influence of pot is . . . .steal your cookies, or your ice cream.

Alcohol? Too much, and a bad day, lots of frustrations. . . .and I could become a raging maniac that winds up, deservedly, in jail.

Crack-"Lord, please help me to never do that again. Amen."

Hope that made sense.


Bryant E. Manning 6 years ago

Through your presentation I feel as if my hand can more steadily be on the pulse of things. Thank you for taking the time to continuously write for the greater good.

Additionally, the U.N. most frequently sanctions against a "savage" Israel, while ignorant of true oppression in it's other members.

This also is one of the many trends snowballing to fulfill prophecy.

Here is a video on this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NMNO9Ke7Uac


dahoglund profile image

dahoglund 6 years ago from Wisconsin Rapids

I've heard the arguments on both sides of the legalize drugs issue. I tend to think it might be a good thing if properly controlled and taxed. The way they are going about it is not good. It is sometimes a matter of choosing between the lesser of evils.


Coming of Age profile image

Coming of Age 6 years ago from Rocky Mountains

Hi James,

Let me start by telling you that I lean conservative, but I am registered as independent.

Isn't interesting where we have come to as a nation? When I was still in high school, it was the far left, mostly young college students, counter culture people, civil rights activist, anti war activists, and hippies that were singing the chant of "question your government, question your officials".

Funny thing though, while I agree with you on most of the governmental interference parts of your article, I don't think that legalizing pot is a problem. Let's face it; alcoholics are the ones who get inebriated then beat their wife and kids, and drunks are more likely to kill someone while behind the wheel too.

When you study the way that pot became illegal in this country in the first place, you will understand that it was more of an (are you ready for the irony) immigration issue to start with. Migrant workers from Mexico in the great depression years were bringing marijuana into the U.S. with them when they came to work here. Americans wanted the migrants out because jobs were scarce. The result was government involvment from (Democrats) to pass a law requiring a "marijuana stamp" to be able to posess, or grow pot. Up until that time pot was already legal in the U.S., but now when when a migrant was caught with pot, they could be put back over the border into Mexico. You would probably be surprised to learn that Benjamin Franklin started the first American paper mill, which made paper exclusively from hemp. It wasn't until the counter culture of the 1960's that it really gained widespread use as a drug in the U.S. Under the Nixon administration it was classified as a Class-1 narcotic, but in fact it is not, and it does have some medical benefit for cancer and glaucoma patients, and certain anxiety disorders.

My point is that making pot legal doesn't mean people (like you yourself said about Christians in a prayer circle) are going to all start smoking it. Alcohol is legal, and many people don't drink. Parents educating their own children, and taking responsibility for their own actions is the key. That's the true conservative stance....Mia Culpa (Latin), meaning my fault, or my responsibility.

It's funny that you mentioned Alaska and Colorado as followers of suit behind California, but now I have to correct you; it was California who followed Colorado, and Alaska. You see, since the 1970's when Colorado was still a Red-State, we have already had something called decriminalization. That means that if you are over 18, have no more than one ounce, and it's in your house, then you're "legal". If you ever got caught with it outside of your house, and it was still under an ounce, the result was an arrest free procedure, a ticket, that carried a small fine and is considered less than a misdemeanor (petty offense). It's competely legal now, in the city of Denver, which means that you don't even get a ticket for having it with you. I'm not sure if Alaska was a republican (red state) at the time, but they have had the same sort of legislation on the books there for quite awhile. It's only medical marijuana that is new in Colorado, which brings other issues about cultivating to the table.

The point is that big government legislating a weed that grows naturally wild in most parts of the southwestern United States is what is ludicrous. How many people have been arrested, convicted, and jailed all at cost to the taxpayer, for a smoking a weed? To me the true constitutional stance is not to try to legislate the possesion or use of a weed, but to control it and tax it just like alcohol. Make an industry out it that would put people to work. The result would be monies that can be directed toward the real drug menace that is killing our youth...Methamphetamine

Just so you know, I'm not a pot smoker, I've smoked it on occasion over the years, but I live where I could smoke all I want and nobody would care one way or the other, but I just don't. I wanted you to know that, so you were aware that my opinion is not based on wanting to be free to become a pot head.

On another note; please go back to James Watkins hub when you get a minute and see the correction I made for you on how many cells a human being starts from. You were absolutely correct, and I told a certain female she owed you an apology.


onegoodwoman profile image

onegoodwoman 6 years ago from A small southern town

My Dear Friend,

I do hope that my stand will not cost me our budding friendship. This is what I truly think. I would offer you no less.

I neither use marijuana nor traffic it in any form, but there have been times, when I was once around it as a matter of routine.

Since my teens, I have predicted that the government will legailize it , WHEN they figure out how to "regualte" and "tax" it.

It was that way with liquor.

It was once that way with prostitution. ( research Nevada, and France)

The TRUTH is the 'government' does not give a tinkers damn about you or me. They simply promote their own ways of generating revenue.

I will not tell you there are no risks with pot, prostitutiion, alcohol, driving fast, hormone infested meat and a slew of other things........you are too smart for the hype.

I will tell you, that through the years, I have volunteerd at various battered women's shelters. Some were physically abused to the point, that I could not even now give voice to her story. Some were sexually abused, and ran only when her own daughter was facing the same abuse.............often the male was " drunk", too often he was simply mean, sometimes he was genuiely "ill" with his own problems.

In NO tale, Jason, IN NO TALE did I hear a woman say, " he smoked a joint and beat me up".......raped me, traded me to his buddies.

IN NO TALE was pot the culprit.

As a mother, in protective mode, I would rather my daughter told me that she was 'smoking', over 'drinking'. This is one law, I too, would like to see changed.

Throw some seeds into your backyard and smoke the herb. The US government has no business in private homes.


Jason R. Manning profile image

Jason R. Manning 6 years ago from Sacramento, California Author

Tlpoague,

Thank you for your thoughts and insight, I am learning more from my fellow conservatives and libertarians on this subject than I had anticipated. Let’s just say the push back is a surprise. You are right, some individuals need little excuse to sign off and give up building a life, marijuana is just one more resource. God Bless TL.

Hi Fred,

Glad to see you again, you have been writing some amazing hubs, your work is needed. Personally I do not drink either, but it is so prevalent, the Greeks and Romans with their wine, Norseman and Saxons with their beer, I cannot recall (though I am sure to be corrected) equal equating to pot, though I do know of the Eastern references smoking. I see it as a distraction, people say it grows naturally, yeah so do poppies and look what you get! I appreciate your support Fred, your knowledge and experience. This debate looks to be far from over, God Bless friend.

Jeremey,

Of all the hubs I have written, this is the one to lift eyebrows…oh, well. What you said hit a nerve with me (again), you are so right about what Mesa did, and they completely went forward with their preparation despite what the news had said. I looked up Google everyday and the news headlines were saying the same thing up to November 15th. Prop 203 sure to fail based on voter turnout, then bam, miraculous recovery, with a sizable margin to secure a “no recount” trigger. Please, I know there are many minds in here that put me to shame, but the rest of us are not “That” ignorant. If everyone says it isn’t that big of a deal, they can get it anyway, then why the heroic need to legislate it, stockpile it and let the government earn “MORE” tax dollars from it? Thanks for your valuable insight and first hand experience. You are very fair in how you look at this. God Bless.


Jason R. Manning profile image

Jason R. Manning 6 years ago from Sacramento, California Author

Mr. Todd,

I am shocked that this conversation, lead by you and others is turning into a let’s add to the fire, alcohol is worse on all levels, we have it, so let us have our marijuana too. To everyone, I said “social drinking” isn’t the same; I made no reference about alcohol other than witnessing death and destruction behind the wheel. Todd, you are correct, I have witnessed a ridiculous amount of traffic deaths from many substances, alcohol being the highest source of those incidents, “other” substances being the number two cause, incompetence the number three. You are very open with your past experiences and are able to diagnose where blame can lay in self defeat, I respect that. Do you agree with this statement, “If marijuana has contributed nothing else to my life, marijuana has stunted my emotional and intellectual development?” I would really like to know, because I have heard this said a number of times. If it is true, why throw another log on the fire? You have deep honesty and conviction Todd, this gives you much integrity. I thank you.

Bryant,

Thank you for taking the time to stop in and comment. I am not sure what your first comment was alluding to, please clarify. You and I are seeing the big picture with reference to your U.N. comment, we can be thankful that God sent angels to change our minds and our hearts. God Bless you little brother.

Dahoglund,

I cannot disagree with you if I tape into my Libertarian voice, but there are many voices in here and it is getting crowded. I openly admit I have no answer, I have an opinion, but the vision is bleak. Thank you for your input and spending time on my hub, much appreciated friend. God Bless.

Coming of Age,

Okay…first, I stand corrected in my lack of research pertaining to the timeline of development in legality, I was incorrect as you stated with Colorado and Alaska (didn’t see that Alaska one coming). Second, I do not think there is accolade worthy enough within my lexicon to furnish your attention to detail, kind regard and professorial correction. You are a breath of fresh air that comes from the ether to grace me with new understanding and guidance. Now it is I that feels like the zygote in light of your comments here and elsewhere. So, are you blushing yet?

Back to the subject matter, you bring up alcohol as well, I refer to my comment to Todd & Fred, it’s been here for millennia, prohibition didn’t work, regulation barely works, why does this parallel end up ushering in more substances as a pacifier? I do not disagree mind you, but neither do I like the outcome. We cannot get rid of A; A is really bad, let’s bring in B and hope it cuts down on A, when reality dictates we only increase substance use by larger portions of the populace. Am I wrong? Next, when we will never get rid of A, we will most certainly see B become a mainstay, C is bound to be around the corner. Marijuana has THC, so why not bring back natural GHB to deal with head cases? I hope I have made a new friend and sparring partner. Thank you for your time.

Y,

My good friend, brutal honesty is what I seek, your religious, political and emotional view are yours and not mine to judge so as long as you do not hurl ravenous, baseless insults at me and mine. Your stated view is very libertarian; prostitution was legal in most western territories for some time, not just Nevada. I will have to give my feedback on this subject later; I cannot properly give it its do right now. God Bless.


Coming of Age profile image

Coming of Age 6 years ago from Rocky Mountains

Hi again James,

I try never to blush, but sometimes my wife can make me do so. (LOL) Thank you for your kind words though.

No you're not wrong about ushering in a pacifier, "two wrongs don't make a right". The problem as I see it; the war on drugs has been an abysmal failure from a cost to the taxpayer standpoint. Pot was just as available in Texas for the 12 or so years that I lived there , as it is right here in a state where it all but being sold at the convenience stores. That is a sad but true commentary. We are clogging up our justice system with petty offenders while amateur chemists steel anhydrous amonia and cold medicine to kill our children with meth. It isn't so much true anymore, but there was a time prior to 1970 when a joint could in some states land an individual in prison for twenty years. Any idea how much that costs? I really don't, but I know it isn't cheap.

I see it as the lesser of two evils in many regards, but more than that, I don't believe our constitutional forefathers would have prohibited it. They saw almost any kind of infringement on individual liberties as a threat to freedom everywhere.

Of course you and I have to be pragmatic and admit that the freedom we have been entrusted with has a balance to maintain that is different than what our founders knew of at the time. I'm sure that there must have been some drug abuse even in their time however. I don't have any factual information at the moment that I could intelligently reference at this moment though.

In truth I really think that if it were regulated and taxed properly, the monies all put to the war on the killer drugs prevalent in our society, then It may save lives.

As for the ravenous and baseless insults...I won't do that to you Brother. I'm not perfect, but I am a Christian, and a bridled tongue (keyboard in this case) is something I always strive for. Please read my article "Gods Assurance-So Easy Even A "preytheist" Can Understand it" I would love your opinion on it. Please understand that I wrote it from a humanist view, and tried to make it broad spectrum as to religious beliefs.

Godspeed


Wesman Todd Shaw profile image

Wesman Todd Shaw 6 years ago from Kaufman, Texas

Jason-I wouldn't say that your quoted statement relates to me, as I wasn't really ever that big into marijuana; but I do see that it's a very accurate statement for some people.

Here's another bone of contention that I have: When I was 19 or so, and got into pot smoking-I thought to myself, "Wow! I've been lied to my whole life about this stuff, it's milder, a LOT milder than alcohol."

Realizing that truth led me to more dangerous drugs, and then I found that I wasn't lied to about THOSE drugs, but it was too late then, I became an addict.


James A Watkins profile image

James A Watkins 6 years ago from Chicago

Well, you asked me to read this piece specifically and chime in. I hate to disappoint you because on virtually every other issue, we agree.

Though I don't smoke pot, I believe it should be legal to do so. I believe that if Thomas Jefferson was told that in the future, America would put people in prison from smoking, or snorting, anything, he would be appalled. This is not freedom.

Alcohol and tobacco kill millions of people. They are legal. I don't think pot ever killed anybody. It is a natural herb.

Besides that, the violence of gangs in America and especially in Mexico would largely end if pot was legalized.

Do I want a stoned America? Of course not. But prohibition should have taught us something. The War on Drugs is a catastrophe!

Let's sell it in liquor stores, and tax the crap put of it.

Alcohol, which we have learned it is futile to prohibit, causes death by liver, death by car, adultery, felonies, fornication, and aggravated assault by the bucketfulls. Pot does none of this. I honestly think we've got it backwards.


Jason R. Manning profile image

Jason R. Manning 6 years ago from Sacramento, California Author

Coming of Age,

I may soften my view of marijuana, but not the conspiracy behind it. I smell another hub based on all these thoughts. If we step away from the key issue in discussion “marijuana,” and focus for a spell on human nature, we know that Pandora’s Box is wide open. Once the people have what they want, you cannot take that right away from them without great struggle. Prohibition is a prime example, but more importantly so are social service issues. Good for us or bad, we inherently hate giving anything up once in our possession. The Government loathes our guns, but lets see them try and confiscate them on a mass scale…won’t happen. Instead they are going to go one house at a time with bogus charges claiming lawful right to search and seizure. Why do I bring this up? Two illustrations, a move to complacency and our struggle of rights, what is balance?

Todd,

We’ve been sharing good open dialogue; hopefully for this purpose I haven’t turned you off too much, after all, it is my job to push sore spots. If there is such a thing as endless tax revenue to be generated from marijuana, then why is tobacco still so prevalent? Just a question I am throwing out there, I haven’t looked into this portion of the equation. The government loves new revenue streams, so what is the hold up if all is okay in J town? Thank you friend for coming back.

Mr. Watkins,

I am not disappointed, you wrote near exactly what I was expecting, and I appreciate your valuable commentary. One last thought about full legalization; if we let the beast out of the box, he will roam free. People are going to hurt themselves via acting out self destructive behaviors. My religious belief tells me to fight all such destruction, our body is a temple and so on. Like I stated earlier, it seems this position brings out the legalize more, not less idea. In my mind, more legalization of distracting behavior leads to complete chaos and more people getting hurt. In the end, I want less pain and suffering, not more. That is all…

God Bless James, thank you senior.


Randy Godwin profile image

Randy Godwin 6 years ago from Southern Georgia

The Marijuana Stamp act was pushed and supported by several extremely rich businessmen to prevent the plant from being utilized in the paper and drug industry. If you read the deliberations of the discussions leading up to this farce, you will see the depth of corruption involved in passing the law.

You neglect to mention the deaths and injuries caused by those using "legal" medications while driving. I suffer from glaucoma with my treatment costing me thousands of dollars each year for something which would otherwise be free.

By the way, have you ever smoked pot before? Please don't respond with the old "I never tried suicide either" COP out!


Jason R. Manning profile image

Jason R. Manning 6 years ago from Sacramento, California Author

Hello Randy,

Thank you for your insight about the stamp act. No, I didn’t deem it necessary to numerically list all causes of traffic accidents as there are thousands of combinations. I felt I was fair enough in explaining my many reasons against full blown legalization. For the record, I should have stated that I am not against the worst cases scenarios being allowed marijuana. Randy, I have not tried any illicit drug that wasn’t handed me through prescription. In my entire life I have had two cigarettes (age 18) and a handful of cigars (a golf thing). I do not drink, not so much by choice; it just doesn’t interest me, nor the expense. Why do you feel compelled to finish off each of your comments with a passive aggressive non sequitur statement?


Randy Godwin profile image

Randy Godwin 6 years ago from Southern Georgia

I was not aware you have scrutinized each of my many comments on this and other sites, Jason! My last statement was for a reason, many of your particular mindset like to retort that which I consider an ignorant response. Sorry you couldn't understand that attempt!

You felt you were being fair by not mentioning the accidents caused by legal drugs such as Xanax, Valium, and other mind altering drugs commonly used, especially by women citing bad nerves as an excuse?

There was actually no doubt in my mind you had never tried pot before. I see this often in those so adamantly opposed to its legalization and in their opinions concerning it.

No one has ever died from simply using the drug. It is people like you spouting hearsay who are responsible for the extreme waste of money spent trying to control the substance and for those who suffered long years in prison for this stupid law.


Jason R. Manning profile image

Jason R. Manning 6 years ago from Sacramento, California Author

Thank you for stopping by Randy, please feel free to drop in anytime. Your contributions are most welcomed and deemed very useful for communication purposes. Good day to you.

p.s. Ad hominum attacking generally doesn't translate well in open conversation between dissenters, if you want to write a hub about, the forum is yours, if you want dialogue, learn some manners.


Randy Godwin profile image

Randy Godwin 6 years ago from Southern Georgia

Thank you for answering my questions to the best of your ability, Jason!


Wesman Todd Shaw profile image

Wesman Todd Shaw 6 years ago from Kaufman, Texas

Jason, I don't know the answer to your question, and I've not done proper research with which to back up this next statement, so keep that in mind, BUT, I'm told that cannabis would make for better paper for print media, books, etc-than whatever wood pulp is now being used. Cannabis is well known to provide the best fiber for heavy duty ropes, etc-and it always has. Think 19 century wooden war or merchant ships. . . .those guys used cannabis ropes, as their very lives sometimes depended upon it.

My personal opinion is the(excuse the somewhat slanderous labels here) neocon right wing "Christian" side of the nation is more concerned with imposing moral values upon us than it is with sound economic sense.


Jason R. Manning profile image

Jason R. Manning 6 years ago from Sacramento, California Author

Hi Todd,

I never said, inferred, negotiated, nor assumed we couldn’t use hemp for all its multi-faceted resources. Sorry if that somehow was lost in translation as I did not broach that piece. Todd, you are very aware of what shortcoming we all possess, for the sake of some behavior legislating, do you not suppose that someone somewhere has to draw a clear and concise line in the sand? Should we allow cocaine, heroine and whatever concentrated brain busters people call for? I do not hide behind labels, I think I am pretty outspoken about my stances, me being a Christian, conservative and reasonable freedom lover, I make no bones that I would like to see certain controls in place. I admit when I am wrong, but many arguments here are not as one. Some here, such as yourself say how this drug doesn’t affect you at all. Others want to see it as another revenue generator and that the war on drugs is a waste, what I haven’t seen is the double standard being explained away…maybe there is a more moderate voice in this group, but the same people who hate large corporations, especially the money making pharmaceutical companies, do not seem to think they are the very ones who stand to control this too. One or two have said to throw a couple of seeds in the back yard like this was corn, which wouldn’t entail any regulations, as where I see a whole other branch of the government springing up from the ground to enforce door to door pot growing. I see the good sheriff of Nottingham being resurrected and I see less liberty in the long run. Until I can be proven wrong, I keep my opinion, be it open. Sorry to disappoint, I am happy in amount of learning we can all gain from this exchange. Thanks Todd, do not give up on my crazy ideology.


Wesman Todd Shaw profile image

Wesman Todd Shaw 6 years ago from Kaufman, Texas

. . . .I think taxation and education beat legislation on this issue. Think about the drastic reduction in smoking among teens in this country since the 1950's. THAT is the power of taxation and education-but you can bet all that you own that if smoking was illegal, then there would be a huge increase in the number of smokers overnight.

When I put "Christians" in parenthesis, you shouldn't take that personally. All I mean when I do that is that TONS of the folks who use that label to describe themselves(My opinion), only think about those principles on Sunday Mornings, and when they see things that the just don't like, such as gays, drug users, etc.

Also, if you didn't see my reply over yonder-I'm not just publishing stuff to irritate you!(LOL!) I'm cleaning out my myspace blogs, deleting them, and updating them and publishing here. . . .where maybe I can make a buck or two.

I can't help but sometimes irritate liberals and right wingers alike. . . .as I fall into either category based upon which issue we're discussing. I also sometimes anger Fundamentalist Christians(all the time, really), and atheists(I'm not an atheist. . . .) too.

No worries, I'm used to it.


Coming of Age profile image

Coming of Age 6 years ago from Rocky Mountains

Hi Jason, I have finished lunch after church, and am just catching up with our Govt./pot dialogue.

You make the point about what happened in Arizona..."November 12, Friday afternoon, after a week and half of counting ballots, prop 203 was down over 3,000 votes from legalizing “medical marijuana” in the state of Arizona. November 15, Monday morning, Arizonan’s woke up to prop 203 miraculously passing on an overwhelming margin of 4,500 provisional ballots."

So roughly 7500 votes between what had been counted on Nov. 12, and the final count 3 days later on Nov. 15, I will dub that "the marijuana miracle deficit vanquishing".

Let me ask this; is there seemingly a large number of Arizona voters feeling disenfranchised by the system, or to put it more succinctly do you think there is a general feeling of voter fraud concening the passage of proposition 203?


Jason R. Manning profile image

Jason R. Manning 6 years ago from Sacramento, California Author

Hello Coming of Age,

It is strange that during the counting, all those perceived ballots were “for” only, I never heard of that in any recount, but in this case I only make open speculation, not driven by cold fact.

Pondering your other question of voter fraud, I am limited to the circles I roll in, thus again; my community members were left scratching their heads. Tucson is a big city, for all I know, the overwhelming push could have come from our southern city. I also may be completely off base, as I so pointedly seem to be here in assuming that followers of Christ would not want to add a new layer of complexity to our demise. In this answer, you are receiving 100% of my opinion and no poll that I have or door to door data. I have struggled for years with full legalization of all drugs, prostitution and quite frankly, “whatever feels good” by ways of proving a point. The people voted in Barack, Nancy and Reid, this has been quite an experiment, so why not legalization of all hard substances? I must be doing a really lousy job at explaining how I do not wish to see human suffering, but betterment of all people. I cannot see how legal marijuana helps attain that goal…mind you for all of the other contributors, alcohol is here to stay, wrong, right or indifferent, no one has told me how this makes the world a better place in the long run.

Maybe I am as short sided as the collective points to on this subject, time is going to tell, that we all can be sure of. Thank you sir.


Coming of Age profile image

Coming of Age 6 years ago from Rocky Mountains

Well James,

If prop. 203 goes the same course as CA.&CO., I'm afraid that the state government boat in Arizona has only just begun to rock on this issue.

What happens next is that a large number of applicants will apply to the state for distributorships where they can legally sell the weed.

Doctors not wanting their names known as prescribers, will demand cash for writing prescriptions to folks who seek them.

The prescriptions will be written for everything from a nosebleed to Hodgkins Disease. Basically anyone who applies will be granted a script.

The state will keep a written record of anyone that applies for a prescription.

Suppliers will begin to pop up around the state, different from distributors, these are the cultivators who grow the pot to supply to the distributors.

Individual cities, and towns will begin to attempt to trump state law by creating city wide bans, or limit distributorships to areas that are only incorporated for the sale of Alcohol, strip bars, etc.

Cities will begin attempting to limit distributorship numbers....40 per city and so forth.

Citizens will insist that city councils ban distributorships fom being within 1000 yards of a school.

Individuals terminted from employment for failing a urine test will sue employers for unlawful termination, for if the state says pot smoking is legal with a prescription, and I have one, how can termination be justified?

Every step of the way there will be objection, more government involvement, lawsuits, supplier busts for being found selling to non-prescription holders, distributorship robberies for both cash and weed, and the list goes on.

You have just begun to see the wheel of government roll my friend, but no matter what else happens, you're in for an education.

You're absolutely correct that pot, alcohol, and indeed other substances do not contribute to the betterment of humanity as a whole...But do you really believe that goverment can better humanity? I believe that a free state can only create an atmosphere whereby the the betterment of the whole of humanity is possible. It is up to each of us as individuals to promote that ideal. Not through prohibition, or coercion, but though education, and morality passed from parent to child.

I will tell you though, knowing that their are Americans out there like you that are thinking of such issues, and truly have the welfare of our great nation at heart brings me much satisfaction.

Diversity on individual issues is a small thing, but the ability to voice our dissent is a great thing!

Godspeed James


Coming of Age profile image

Coming of Age 6 years ago from Rocky Mountains

By the way James....You made me think, so you're article is voted up (useful), & for being well written (awesome)


sueroy333 profile image

sueroy333 6 years ago from Indiana

Interesting article. I hadn't realized how many states had actually legalized pot.

I wonder how that's going to work with driving while high? When people are drunk a Breathalyzer can get a good reading, and you can pull them off the road. Even if you give a blood test to a stoner behind the wheel, you can't prove when he smoked. Pot stays in your system for around 30 days. This, more than anything else, scares the bajeebies out of me!

Excellently written article.


fred allen profile image

fred allen 6 years ago from Myrtle Beach SC

Jason- You held your own very well in this debate. You were respectful of those with a different view, while some of those did not return the same courtesy. I applaud you.

I can only speak from my own experience. I smoked pot nearly everyday all day for close to 20 years. Those who I associated with that did the same share a common thread. None reached their potential. I would have argued at the time that it was harmless, but now looking back I see that the harm it did to me was to hinder me from reaching my potential. I know I would not want a doctor to operate on me while being a habitual user. I would even go so far as to say that a habitual user would not likely have the ability to become a doctor. Would you want your fate to be in the hands of a lawyer who was a habitual user? Friggadiggit! Do we as a society want to send the message that this is not a bad thing just because we want to promote the freedom to underachieve? Decriminalizing is one thing, legalization is quite another. I would be for decriminalizing but I would want the youth of America to still see this as illegal and frowned upon. My 2 cents.


Coming of Age profile image

Coming of Age 6 years ago from Rocky Mountains

@sueroy333...Actually Sue, there are roadside saliva tests that can be administered w/o the need of blood. However, you are also mistaken about the blood not telling if a user is under the influence at the time of being pulled over. Although pot does stay in your system after use, it is stored up in fat tissue. that means that 30 days is an average, but it could stay in your system much longer if you have high body fat concentrations, but more importantly, it means when THC is found at certain concentrations in the blood it can be determined with great accuracy when the individual last smoked.

Roadside.....Source is stopthedrugwar.org The following is a direct quote from that site:

Michigan could become the first state in the nation to drug test drivers if a Republican lawmaker has his way. Last week, Rep. Rick Jones (R-Grand Lodge) announced he was filing a bill that would allow police officers to administer roadside drug tests if they have probable cause.

traffic stop scene, from "10 Rules for Dealing with Police" (buy at stopthedrugwar.org/10rules)Jones, a former sheriff, said the roadside tests could replace what is now an expensive and time-consuming process. Currently, officers who want to test drivers for drugs must get a search warrant to take a blood sample, which is then tested by backlogged state crime labs.

"A portable drug testing kit would be an extremely powerful tool to keep unsafe drivers off our streets. With a portable kit, officers will know in minutes whether the driver is high on drugs," Jones said in a statement.

"The kit has the potential to save a great deal of tax dollars by reducing the need for state crime labs to do many tests," Jones continued. "Patrol officers now have to make a judgment call whether they believe a driver is under the influence of drugs. Science has now caught up with the need, and our patrol officers should have the option of using this valuable public safety tool."

Under the proposal, suspected drugged drivers would have to submit to a preliminary saliva drug test that can detect six kinds of drugs, including marijuana, methamphetamines, and cocaine. If the preliminary test, which produces results in minutes, came back positive, additional testing would occur.

The motivation for Jones' bill appears to be his opposition to the state medical marijuana law, enacted by the will of the voters in 2008. Last month, he introduced a bill that would bar medical marijuana "clubs and bars" throughout the state. In a statement then, the former sheriff worried about "clubs where users could get high and drive away, endangering people."

Jones' legislation is actually a three-part package, with House Bill 6430 covering motor vehicles, HB 6431 covering snowmobiles and ATVs, and HB 6432 covering trains.


sueroy333 profile image

sueroy333 6 years ago from Indiana

Wow, I'm glad to see this. Thank you for the information.


Coming of Age profile image

Coming of Age 6 years ago from Rocky Mountains

You're very welcome Sue...I too want our roads safe! Even though I believe in freedom of choice when it comes to pot. I don't want anyones safety compromised as a result. We can't let our roads go to pot! LOL


Kenneth Ray profile image

Kenneth Ray 6 years ago from Maple Ridge, BC

We are dealing with same issues here in Canada. Pot is illegal; but smalls amounts of pot are usually just seized without charges from the police. This really is an age old debate with good points from both sides. I think fines instead of criminal charges would be better. There are too many people in American jails as it is. It would be great if Canadian/American/Mexican laws could be more in sync with each other to help fight the drug war.


Jason R. Manning profile image

Jason R. Manning 6 years ago from Sacramento, California Author

Sueroy,

Thank you kindly for your compliment, I appreciate you stopping by to read what must be 20 pages now…I picked the right topic for discourse. Yes, we all learn from one another and that is the point. Thanks again, God Bless.

-Jason

Coming of Age,

I am very appreciative of your gracious time. I thank you for the great compliment you left me, it drives me to keep researching and challenging myself and others. This is one of those subjects that evolves with time…and not random plasma;-)

-Jason

Fred,

Thank you for coming back to add more to the conversation. I am willing to debate anyone as long as they are respectful and not irate. Randy had followed me from rachellrobinson hubpage and he was trying to brow beat her instead of engage civilly. It was clear where that line of questioning was going to go…

Honesty is the only thing we have among us, being we do not debate face to face, evading or trickery is childish. I waffled on a couple of things here that I wish I could better communicate, one being in how to demonstrate that I want liberty, but I do not want overreaching government inoculating liberty. Example;

If we were to go for full blown legalization of marijuana across the Continental US, we wouldn’t be adding more liberty, we would be adding to the size of the federal government. Who is going to regulate the shops, the growers, new regulations, fraud, weights and measures? Probably the ATF, how many new agents would they have to hire? How many more state offices would they need to open? Sure the marijuana brings in new tax revenue, but it is sucked up by bureaucracy and a bloated government payroll. There is always greater costs involved when you ask Uncle Sam to do anything. Thanks for your support Fred.

-Jason


Jason R. Manning profile image

Jason R. Manning 6 years ago from Sacramento, California Author

Hello Kenneth,

Thank you for coming by to check out my hub, I welcome your contribution. I do agree that the police should not bother with paperwork, they should just seize the property and destroy it, as long as the person possessing the marijuana wasn’t driving under the influence, we can never condone that. There are good reasons on both sides, but I do not want to add to the size of government, so that people can have their pot. I certainly do not want to subjugate American to International law, even if it was a NAFTA style agreement. Our nations are ideologically not set up for such rule. Thank you.

-Jason


Jeremey profile image

Jeremey 6 years ago from Arizona

You hit the jackpot here Jason! I just came back to check your response to the comments up to mine not expected a novel of dialog! I know what i'm writing about soon! (lol!)I think from what I know about marijuana that it has remained illegal because of the pharmacuetical industy not being able to get a secure handle on it, they have thrown much money against it's supporters, while at the same time trying to medicinalize it in pill form. Have fun with this, it may occupy you until pot is legal!!.......and if you want a good book on marijuana/hemp, check out Jack Herer's "The Emperor Wears No Clothes"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Emperor_Wears_No_...


aguasilver profile image

aguasilver 6 years ago from Malaga, Spain

Jason, I shall enjoy following you!

I have a hub on this (think it's called Don't Bogart that joint?) anyhow, as a bible believer, you need to answer:

Mark 7 14-23

And define what 'defile' refers to?

John (respectfully!)


aguasilver profile image

aguasilver 6 years ago from Malaga, Spain

PS. I do not advocate the use of hash for any spiritual exercise, however as believers we are free to partake in fun usage of beverages and herbs!

From your comments I imagine your branch of Christianity may have some taboos, I started out with the Baptists and (obviously) alcohol was a NO NO in all circumstances, and in all circumstances we are not to be incapacitated by what we consume, however Christ DID get the wedding party thoroughly DRUNK in celebration, when He made wine..... so we can enjoy substance impartation when the situation allows it. (and I do not suggest that Christ got drunk either)

But obviously never in ministry works.


Jason R. Manning profile image

Jason R. Manning 6 years ago from Sacramento, California Author

Hi Aquasilver,

I really appreciate your comments, your second post is humorous “my branch,” well rest assured we do not drink Kool-aid or where Nike sneakers…

I read you loud and clear in regard to Mark, however, I tend to heed Matthew 7:13-23. I understand the Lord helps each man with the path they are on, and I know each route I take ends up being scenic. As long as I stay on his road, I get a good picture of the pretty mountains. Thank you friend, I too like how you write. Thanks, God Bless.


Randy Godwin profile image

Randy Godwin 6 years ago from Southern Georgia

Me again Jason! Thought I'd come back and check some of the responses to this hub. Glad I did too! So I am uncivil and browbeat people, right? Ha!

I ask people questions to determine how much they really know about things. If I disagree with them I am often blamed with being rude to them or uncivil.

But it always comes from those who cannot, or will not, answer questions because it hurts their argument. You are no different.

It's blatantly obvious you do not know what you are talking about! You sound like a preacher boy fully indoctrinated by the usual ignorant police propaganda. Now this is browbeating! Say amen, brother!


Jason R. Manning profile image

Jason R. Manning 6 years ago from Sacramento, California Author

Well Mr. Randy,

Lets go back to the beginning of your retort…I yielded ground to your “stamp act” comment, as I have no disagreement, you are perturbed with me because I failed to mention every possible scenario involving auto accidents. I answered your question about smoking with full candid honesty and your reply’s are laced with bitter contention and manifest hatred for who I am, furthermore you ignore the twenty pages worth of civil conversation laid out between me and what looks like 75% of disagreement. So, I can only deduce that there is nothing short of hanging myself that would appease you…did I miss anything else your Lordship?


Randy Godwin profile image

Randy Godwin 6 years ago from Southern Georgia

I am neither bitter nor can I hate you manifestly, Jason! But if it makes you feel better to paint me as a villain, then feel free to do so! LOL! This is a common ploy used by your ilk to counter any disagreement with your own opinion.

You know as well as I do there are many more dangerous drugs than pot commonly used by people on a daily basis. People get fat, they ask for speed to lose weight. Yeah I know, they don't call it speed but a rose.....

And all of these ladies taking xanax, valium, and a slew of other "legal" drugs are driving around town while buzzed out of their skulls and talking on the cell phone while doing so! But mention their favorite drugs in the same sentence with pot and you will get complete indignation. Know anyone like this, Jason?


Jason R. Manning profile image

Jason R. Manning 6 years ago from Sacramento, California Author

Mr. Randy,

There is something completely lost in your tonality, and therefore your delivery and translation. You keep referring to me as a member of some dubious posse, I on the other hand have been speaking to you. I do not see anyone standing over my shoulder, its just me…where is this “ilk” from whom you reference?

Randy, the list of all illicit drugs have a very short list of pros, versus cons. This hub is about marijuana, I wished to debate marijuana, but alas, everyone else including you wishes to bring up a litany of other substances, sorry if I am not studious enough to know both proper and street names for over the counter, behind the counter, in the bathroom stall and on the border drug. I am running out of ways to say that I agree alcohol is bad, but it’s a fact of life that we are not going to get rid of it. As it stands, the worst case cancer patients are NOT barred from attaining marijuana, which I AGREE with. I do not think it necessary or wise for anyone not in ABSOLUTE chronic level 8.5 or higher pain to smoke their life away. I suffer from period migraines that I swear from time to time might kill me, but I have learned to live with them. If you are not dying from some terminally painful disease, I do not want to bloat the government, add new regulations, fraud cases, crime, federal agents, more taxes and on and on. You have yet to yield one iota of ground on anything I have said, so…who is the one way self-righteous persona?


Coming of Age profile image

Coming of Age 6 years ago from Rocky Mountains

Hi Jason, looks you are on the "chronic".....Chronic growing hub. HaHa

Sorry I'm just getting back...Been engaging you on your Wonder Years I&II hubs


Jason R. Manning profile image

Jason R. Manning 6 years ago from Sacramento, California Author

Ah, Coming Of Age, I do need to find out more about your pursuit of knowledge, I certainly hope to finish my business classes soon, history is where I would like to focus the bulk of my life, while trying to keep up with the development of AI, which I know 0.5% about. If I do forget to say it, may I say it now…Happy Thanksgiving to me new friend, and may you have a blessed day with your loved ones tomorrow.

p.s. I hope Mr. Randy has one as well.


Randy Godwin profile image

Randy Godwin 6 years ago from Southern Georgia

"Smoke their life away" is saying anyone who smokes pot is wasting their life! You do not smoke pot so others are wrong for doing so! Explain how this is not "self righteous" if you will! You are judging others compared with what YOU think should, or should not, be allowed for them to do.

There is no reason for government regulation, just as there is none on owning a knife or eating too much food! Overeating causes much more disease, heart attacks, deaths, than pot could ever do! How do you feel about laws concerning intake of food? Govt. regulations or just let it go?

You do avoid questions like a religious person, that's for sure! You didn't answer the last question in my previous comment. Forgot?


Jason R. Manning profile image

Jason R. Manning 6 years ago from Sacramento, California Author

Mr. Randy,

Is this the question you were trying to attract my attention to;

“And all of these ladies taking xanax, valium, and a slew of other "legal" drugs are driving around town while buzzed out of their skulls and talking on the cell phone while doing so! But mention their favorite drugs in the same sentence with pot and you will get complete indignation. Know anyone like this, Jason?”

If so, I have to admit zero experience with the above…maybe because of the age of my family, we avoid prescription drugs if it isn’t life threatening…no I am not a Tom Cruize-ite.

You are wrong about knife legislation Randy, in California it is illegal to own a butterfly knife, you cannot have a blade longer than 4 inchs concealed, it has to be exposed and something else I forgot. (I was a former Californian)

Are you kidding about food regulation? Are you not familiar with Michelle Obama? How about the new San Francisco ordinance against “happy meals.”? What do you call weights and measures? People can die from drinking too much water (and have) hyponatremia. Yes, I am judgmental of people who wish to spend there whole life smoking pot if it pleases the jury, but I am also judgmental of people who spend their whole life playing video games, I wrote a piece about that too. I am not looking for regulation of video games, you can turn them off and get in car to drive to any destination you so choose, free of influence. Next?


Coming of Age profile image

Coming of Age 6 years ago from Rocky Mountains

Hey no problem James,

I haven't said it before now either. I hope you and your family have a very happy Thanksgiving too! The Lord bless and keep you my friend.

You have fantastic grasp of the written word, I wish I was half as eloquent.

I have to tell you you're holding your on with RG very well, and don't you budge my friend! Your opinion about pot is as valid as any, He isnt' going to be happy unless you say it should be legal...One point that you have made in all of this is that it much harder to put Pandora back in the box.

You know what I think about the evil weed, but no matter about that now. I feel infinitely stronger about your absolute right to feel differently, and to make your opinion known. That's not religiosity, it's AMERICAN!


Jason R. Manning profile image

Jason R. Manning 6 years ago from Sacramento, California Author

Coming of Age,

To that my friend I can and will give a resounding AMEN! It was you who came to my rescue with Austinstar, it would have taken me an hour to find what you retorted with in no time. Thank you for the confidence, I am sure to be a prominent thorn in the side of lefties for decades to come.


Randy Godwin profile image

Randy Godwin 6 years ago from Southern Georgia

Thanks Jason, except you didn't mention whether you agree with food intake regulations or not!

No, not concealed knives, knives in the home! They do cause death and injury, you know. Let me guess, you don't have any sharp knives in your home! You probably don't drive either because more people are killed in cars than by illegal drugs!

Drink coffee? 100 cups of coffee a day can kill you! And if you don't know anyone taking some of the aforementioned drugs you don't know as much about traffic fatalities and other accidents as you seem to infer.

I am not trying to browbeat you, Jason, but when someone states things I know not to be true I try to determine how they came to their conclusions. It's as simple as that.

Unless of course, you don't think I am entitled to ask?


Jason R. Manning profile image

Jason R. Manning 6 years ago from Sacramento, California Author

Mr. Randy,

I carry a four inch Gerber Tanto blade with me nearly all the time. Sorry, I thought the obvious consternation and sarcasm about San Francisco answered you. No, I hate overregulation of common sense, and I am of the opinion that marijuana requires regulation, which I want to avoid at nearly all costs, as I am not an absolutists. I believe in the first amendment, have I given you any indication that I wish you to not voice your opinion? I just referred to immediate response and tone taken with me, that you were going to gain say everything I post.

I know driving 35k miles a year and having been a first responder to countless accidents doesn’t qualify as a apprenticeship, but I know a heck of a lot more from first hand experience than the average desk jockey. Plus, for a short time I pursued law enforcement as a career…big leap huh? I do not mind the exchanges we have had today, I admit that your approach is very abrasive and off putting. There is a hubber who disagrees with 80% of what I say, maybe more, but I respect him and value his incredible knowledge and he doesn’t charge like a bull, like someone I know…Cheers.


Randy Godwin profile image

Randy Godwin 6 years ago from Southern Georgia

Sorry I wasted my time and yours, Jason! I should have read your profile first! You are a fan of Prager and Hewitt. If I had known this was the case, I wouldn't have commented to begin with!

Feel free to delete my comments!

Randy


Jason R. Manning profile image

Jason R. Manning 6 years ago from Sacramento, California Author

Mr. Randy,

Really, that is all it took? If I add William Bennett to the list will you come back, after all he was the Secretary of Education and a Democrat…


Jed Fisher profile image

Jed Fisher 6 years ago from Oklahoma

Vote the bums out.


Jason R. Manning profile image

Jason R. Manning 6 years ago from Sacramento, California Author

Amen Jed, thanks for reading...to be continued...


Jason R. Manning profile image

Jason R. Manning 6 years ago from Sacramento, California Author

Hello Sword of Fire,

Amen, tongues will fail where knees will not…You left me one of the wittiest of comments I have yet to receive. I look forward to your writings. Thank you for the note. I appreciate your contribution; hope to see more of you.


Micky Dee profile image

Micky Dee 5 years ago

This is silly to debate. If you put the figures on the table about Marijuana and alcohol there is no contest. There is no way I would trust a soldier who has been drinking. I will not trust a drunk man to do anything and yet you sit here on these hubpages and you make no effort to stop the drinking that is killing. Put the numbers out here and let's study.

Better yet. Let's you, Lance Armstrong, and Micky Dee have a contest.

I will smoke ALL you want.

You drink ALL I want.

Let's hit the road. I will pedal my bicycle faster and further than Lance Armstrong and you. Any day of the week and you choose the the cyclist. Are there any takers on this hub? Let's race for money! But no! There will not be any test of reason.

You say you want to save souls. How can you save a soul of a man that is dead? There is no contest. If people stopped drinking today - the numbers of pot related deaths will NEVER equal that of alcohol. Until the end of time!


Jason R. Manning profile image

Jason R. Manning 5 years ago from Sacramento, California Author

Hello Micky, I am not sure why you bothered to post a response to this, especially since I take this seriously. If you read through this discussion, you would see that I neither smoke or drink and therefore this isn’t about abolishing everything…under the influence is “under the influence,” I do not anyone operating anything on the road under the influence. Sorry you cannot see that. Take care.


Druid Dude profile image

Druid Dude 5 years ago from West Coast

Good hub. I live in Oregon. Can't wait to get my card! The thing is, part of the apostacy of this culture, is that they placed laws upon something that they should have known was hands off. I won't go into how ancient our species wide infatuation w/ getting high really is. Pot may provide certain benefits beyond medical. I have never known marijuana to make someone literally stupid. In fact, potheads ace tests everyday. College exams, and such...just not UA's The real tragedy is that the administrations of the past found it necessary to villainize a plant with lies. Obviously in the pocket of the pharmaceutical companies. They were the real ones who were behind the contrary laws, they stood to lose the most, and now they are taking a hit, but not nearly the hit they thought they would take. We may begin to breathe easier now, because Pete the Pothead won't go to prison and learn how best to kill someone, or how to pull off an armed robbery in one easy lesson. More room for the people who NEED to be in prison.


Jason R. Manning profile image

Jason R. Manning 5 years ago from Sacramento, California Author

Hi Druid Dude, not sure how to respond with the exception of your pointing to pot helping people ace exams. I think you are splitting the high cognitive function of those already able with those of lower ability to redeem the same benefits. I do not know what weed you’ve been around, but the stuff I have witnessed turned some pretty savvy students into sloth like, numb smiling idiots. Just another difference of opinion on the subject. Cheers mate…


cheaptrick profile image

cheaptrick 5 years ago from the bridge of sighs

Ever notice the wonderful ads on TV expounding the benefits of New drugs for what ever ails you?The list of side effects is longer than the info on the drug.Six months latter you see another commercial,this time from a law office,telling you to call if this or that horrendous thing has happened to you.The drug companies are at least as bad as the cartels in killing people with their poison.

My partner and I own several businesses,employ a fairly large number of people,pay lots of taxes,are active in our community,and have been smoking pot for some forty years...Responsibly!!

Have you considered that there are responsible pot smoking people in the world?The point I'm trying to make here is that the substance,emotion,ethic,etc is secondary to the mind set of the individual.It is the propensity of some people to become addicted,not the thing in it's self.Legalisation wrests control from the criminal and returns it to morally responsible people.Rest assured that the legal marijuana store owner has no interest in selling it to your teen age daughter,nor does he wish her to be introduced to heroin,meth,crack,and all the other soul consuming drugs that the Street dealer longs for her to try.He will seduce her into trying the hard addictive drugs,even give them to her for free...until she's hooked.Then he will introduce her to the world of teen prostitution and all the sickening games that go with it.Would it not be prudent to rip the teeth out of these criminal dealers by destroying their profit base through legalization,control,and enforcement of realistic laws rather than using ideology that has lost it's impact,credibility,and effectiveness because it's been polluted with half truths and spin?Many years ago I read this graffiti on the bathroom wall of a popular pub in my town"The religious right is neither".Truer words were never spoken,but the mind boggling devastation caused by religion[all religion]is for another day.My compliments,though I read and rate a ton of hubs,I don't often comment.I felt compelled in this case so kudos to you...I still disagree but that's OK.Stimulating discussion.

Dean


Jason R. Manning profile image

Jason R. Manning 5 years ago from Sacramento, California Author

Dean, I certainly hear what it is you are saying, but there isn’t enough faith in our law enforcement and government to handle legalizing another mind altering drug. You may be of a extreme small minority of “responsible” smokers. Can you not judge with your own eyes that today’s youth does not need one more excuse to cut loose? We are already a highly permissive society, less structure we do not need. Additional hedonistic outlets, we do not need. An alcoholic and addict will always break laws, put themselves and others in grave danger to feed a habit, alcohol is legal and yet people commit illegal acts with it…so how are you proposing marijuana will not add to that fire? Thanks for leaving your extensive comment.


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