Cooking The Books

Chef Obama Hard At Work

Now he wouldn't do that, would he?

Much bravado emitted from the lips, via the teleprompter, of Obama concerning the unemployment rate dropping to 8.5%. Now I'm not saying that it isn't a good thing for American workers to be able to return to the work force. It is how the Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS) arrives at the numbers they put out as gospel and if there is any "political" motivation involved in cooking the books to try to get from Point "A" to "Point "B." You can try that magic trick in many variations but in reality you're still standing at Point "A" when everything is said and done.

To add to that equation is the fact that the average American fails to understand just how that number is derived and the people that were omitted for various reasons from the counting of heads. The other factor that is often failed to even gain an honorable mention is the fact that in the month of December, the month in question, there is a variance due to the upswing in seasonal employment that disappears after everyone has been skinned by the retailers of the world. I've been taking a hard look at how the BLS has been cooking the books which gives Joe Tentpeg a case of the fuzzies which he shouldn't necessarily have. Lets take a look.

Progress can sometimes be quite deceiving, especially when dealing with federal bureaucrats who seem to owe their allegiance to an individual rather than the truth.

It's All Better Now? Well, Not Exactly...

The basic problem is "under counting." It's a great way to cook any set of books, just don't report what should actually be reported. When the government does this to make it appear that the unemployment in the nation is going down, rather than up or remaining the same, it is nothing more than a smoke and mirrors routine. Now they wouldn't do that, would they? So what is missing from these reports? Glad you asked.

First thing missing is the 1.2 million seekers of employment who have been added to the population in the past year without being added to the work force number. That deflates the unemployment figure because they aren't being counted because they aren't collecting unemployment or for other various reasons. You have to have sustained employment in order to collect unemployment in case you didn't know that. It should be noted that the government itself has created a convoluted system whereby the longer a job recession continues on then the reliability of the numbers comes into question.

Here's the magic trick and this has been going on since 1994 when the BLS stopped counting the "terminally" unemployed. Another term used is the "long term discouraged worker" who has thrown in the towel on looking for a job. Note that when you stop looking for work over a period of time, you're not a number worth considering. Nothing suspicious about that now is there? You aren't even a number anymore in the thinking of a numbers cruncher at that point.

You Still Listening?

The straight talk that you fail to hear from the Lame Stream Media deals with facts and figures and not some phony magic trick. Lets look at reality now for a few minutes. Using December 2010 as our reference there were approximately 239 million Americans available to be useful in the work force. During this past year that number has risen by 1.6 million people. Doing the math increases that to 240.5 million potential workers. You following along? But wait. Of those 1.6 million red-blooded Americans, the BLS has only added 274,000. Where did the rest of them go? Did we off shore them along with jobs?

This is where a concept called the "participation rate" rears its head. At a rate of 64% 1.1 million workers should have been added to the rolls. However strange it may seem the participation rate during the last year dropped from 64,3% down to 64%. What this does is drop the number of people available to the workforce, which they really are available for, which makes for a lower unemployment number. I'm trying to keep this simple so even a 5th grader can see what is going on here.

Using what I just pointed out, if they really used numbers based in reality, the effective unemployment figure would be 10.9%. There was no movement per se, only in the way the books are cooked. Zero Hedge has calculated the participation rate at 65.8%. Using that participation rate. Using that rate, which I would believe before I believed anything the BLS puts out, there are 4.4 million workers missing from the count. What Zero Hedge has found is that if the BLS continues to use a downward spiral of the participation rate that rate will hit zero by the time the general election occurs. Strange? Why would anyone put anything past Obama, the saver of jobs, in order for him to continue to baffle us with BS without the accompanying brilliance?

Here's a useful quote I found to help illustrate my point: It won't surprise anyone that as of December, the real implied unemployment rate was 11.4% - basically where it has been ever since 2009 - and at 2.9% delta to reported, represents the widest divergence to reported data since the early 1980s. And because we know this will be the next question, extending this lunacy, America will officially have no unemployed, when the Labor Force Participation rate hits 58.5%, which should be just before the presidential election.

On Back! On Back!!

Yeah, well tell that to the 20 million Americans they are still counting standing in the unemployment lines. Is this an assault upon the truth? Why cook the books in order to give someone a warm fuzzy about something that reality doesn't support? Just how important is the truth to you? The truth according to Obama is a sham. We've seen gun running being covered up and lied about by this administration, we've seen a health care bill passed that no one knew exactly what was in it when they signed off on it (much book cooking is being discovered in that signature piece of legislation), his total disregard for immigration law and recess appointments comes to my mind. All those prerogatives we're witnessing Obama pull out of his magic hat without constitutional authority should give pause for any thinking American to examine. If he actually taught anything to the students he professes to have taught about the US Constitution I wonder what it was.

So a little thing like have the BLS cooking the books to perpetuate a lie is but a minor speed bump for the Deceiver-In-Chief himself. How about we start serving up the truth instead of magic tricks that are meant to deceive the American people? I'm just askin...

As Always,

The Frog Prince

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Comments 66 comments

RealHousewife profile image

RealHousewife 4 years ago from St. Louis, MO

Frog - I love the term..."long time discouraged worker". ??? Yeah there are lots of those....and Obama has some good speech writers, they say things pretty! Lol


Old Poolman profile image

Old Poolman 4 years ago from Rural Arizona

FP - The fact they claim to no longer count those who have given up looking for work in the total unemployment numbers raises some questions. How are these people continuing to stay alive? We don't see the streets lined with people who have starved to death so they are getting food from somewhere. It would be very interesting to show the declining unemployment numbers side-by-side with the increasing welfare numbers. Those two numbers would clearly show what is really going on.


poetvix profile image

poetvix 4 years ago from Gone from Texas but still in the south. Surrounded by God's country.

Sir Frog, as per usual you have done an outstanding job. You know he left out another huge group. Our country has literally millions of people on disability. Many of them, not all, but many want to work. They are never counted.

I have gotten to where I'm so used to the lies I just can't believe anything he says. Nothing! But then, if I am to be fair, that can be said of most of them.

Rock The Vote 2012! God bless.


The Frog Prince profile image

The Frog Prince 4 years ago from Arlington, TX Author

OP - There are other correlations that I could have added but I tried not to write a book, just the basic facts about how the counting methods stink to high heaven.

poetvix - I blush easily so take er easy. Another category I didn't bring up - illegal immigrants - sticks in my craw. That will be the subject for another rant. I learned early on that if his lips are moving, the teleprompter is lying.

The Frog


Stu 4 years ago

Hi Frog,

You are right that the unemployment numbers are a sham. If you add to the official number those who gave up looking, those who are looking but are not receiving unemployment benefits, and the underemployed, the real figure is close to 20%. In all truth, we are in a jobs depression.

It's like how the government talks about the $15 trillion national debt, but "omits" mentioning that we also have $90 trillion of off balance sheet debt "backed" by special issue treasuries we have no means of repaying. It's like a corporation preparing an annual report with 86% of their liabilities not stated on their balance sheet. The SEC would probably send their CEO and CFO to prison, unless of course they contributed to Obama's warchest.

Stu


vrajavala profile image

vrajavala 4 years ago from Port St. Lucie

Transparency at work.


Lynn S. Murphy 4 years ago

Thankfully there are a lot of food banks and relatives helping out the unemployed, as well as extended unemployment benefits, which by no means cover anything but the bare minimum. Right on as usual FP. I wish the gov't would get out of the way and let companies do what they do best. make money and employ people.


anjegirl profile image

anjegirl 4 years ago from Myrtle Beach,SC

WAIT---stop the presses---what about the millions of unemployed who have never ever had a job and whose moms and pops have never had a job and most of whom were convicted felons before they were 18 years of age and who will never have a job. Most of these never employed individuals who I have worked with nationwide are not on the current day unemployment roles and have never been on them. Their are entire neighborhoods across America who exist only on the welfare roles and those people are not listed on the unemployment roles ever through the BLS and although Obama knows first hand that these people exist he would never address them as the unemployed or under employed. When you spend time in these neighborhoods you learn quickly that no one in these neighborhoods are working or looking for work and ever have filled out an application to look for a job and these neighborhoods are a veritable sea of ppl who for three generations now, have never looked for or worked. As convicted felons and most of them are, they cannot work in our country. One in six families in America are on welfare and not working. Factor that in real fast! LOL

Really great hub about a really big lie,Jim. Bravo!!


The Frog Princess profile image

The Frog Princess 4 years ago from Florence area of the Great Pee Dee of South Carolina

Jim this is excellent. Now copy and paste and send to DC. Since they can't add 2 + 2 maybe can they read.

voted up.

Donna


Ghost32 4 years ago

Frog: Well, Jim, gotta tell ya--Pam and I are surely ecstatic that the job picture is so rosy. Never mind that my hardworking stepson is hardly working no matter how hard he looks for work. Of course, he probably doesn't count in the statistics 'cause he works at any job--for an hour, a day, a week, or whatever--that he can find.

Also, he recently got ready to go to work as a cook in a newly built pizza place... ye olde shaft reared its homely head. Seem the $10 per hour promised up front was suddenly $8, barely above minimum wage, and for an experienced and talented fellow at that. I'm guessing anybody who calls a potential employer a liar and doesn't show up to get stiffed is considered a stiff and not a statistic.

Can't say about the entire country, but the Cochise County, Arizona, picture is definitely still as bleak as ever.

Voted Up and All That.


The Frog Prince profile image

The Frog Prince 4 years ago from Arlington, TX Author

vrajavala- Starting to become real easy to see through Obama isn't it. He promised us transparency. The corruption that permeates this administration is very easy to see.

anje - Now hold on. The entitlement crowd, at least the welfare segment, are very special you see to some of these career pick pockets we call politicians. That is part of their "base" who they rely on so they can continue to warm those seat cushions and rape the national treasury, what is left of it anyway.

Don't be expecting them to count them anytime soon. They see them as working - working hard at doing nothing but expecting the rest of hard working Americans to fill their pantries, pay their rent and pay for their big fancy cars.

I'm just sayin...

Donna - Hell they don't even read the bills they enact so I sure don't expect them to read something like this that a 5th grader can understand.

Fred - Obama keeps telling us that the Good Ship Lollipop of Recovery has arrived. I'm just wondering which port it pulled into, as are a lot of other people.

The Frog


Pollyannalana profile image

Pollyannalana 4 years ago from US

It really scares me to see him come off vacation now and start rewriting the facts. Many idiots are going to fall for it.


The Frog Prince profile image

The Frog Prince 4 years ago from Arlington, TX Author

Polly - I much prefer it when the whole bunch of them leave Washington DC. Seems to be a much calmer place without all the BS swirling around on a continuous basis. I reckon he had to say something in order to justify spending $4 million on a Christmas holiday while a lot of people in the nation are doing without.

People accuse me of having no compassion which I do happen to have. I do NOT have any compassion for this pack of jackals who make a living from feeding off the tax payers of this nation and then lying about it. A government that will lie to you will surely screw you.

The Frog


breakfastpop profile image

breakfastpop 4 years ago

For this administration, the "truth" is just an annoying roadblock on the way to victory, easily discarded without regret. When I painfully listen to Obama speak, all I hear are distortions and outright lies. The American people deserve better, but until he is back in Chicago, we aren't going to get what we deserve. Well done, up useful, interesting and awesome.


John Holden profile image

John Holden 4 years ago

You write as if you believe Obama, personally, was the only leader ever to cook the books on employment figures.

Get real, they all do it and all opposition parties the world over cook the books to make the figures appear worse than they are.

Name me a government, anywhere in the world, that does not at some time lie to the people it represents?


The Frog Prince profile image

The Frog Prince 4 years ago from Arlington, TX Author

John - Did I happen to mention the year that the BLS started doing this? I think I did. So who was in office at the time the practice was sanctioned? If you don't know then Google it.

You need to "get real." Just because one moron does it makes it all right for the next moron to do it and then the next and so forth and so on. Get a grip man. That is moronic thinking.

I'll name you a government that better start representing "We, the People..." This one that governs the US of A. Evidently to you lying to the American public is just fine as long as it justifies their means. Is that read on you correct?

The Frog


breakfastpop profile image

breakfastpop 4 years ago

Since when is lying acceptable? Never. If the American people accept that they are being lied to and don't demand the truth, well then the lies will continue. I don't find that acceptable, no matter who is doing it.


John Holden profile image

John Holden 4 years ago

No Frog that read on me is absolutely incorrect. Nowhere do I say that it is fine to lie, just that Obama is not alone.

If you want an example of moronic thinking, look to your own.


The Frog Prince profile image

The Frog Prince 4 years ago from Arlington, TX Author

John - It goes like this. I don't like liars - at all. I am especially not tolerant of a politician who is a pathological liar - which Obama is. I don't give a damn WHO it is and your comments are about as idiotic as I've encountered lately.

Here's my suggestion to you. I suggest you troll on and find a more receptive audience for your babble. It isn't what you said, it';s how you said it and it infers that you think it's okay for Obama to lie because they all lie. If they all are liars then they all need to go. Understand?

The Frog


breakfastpop profile image

breakfastpop 4 years ago

I understand you perfectly, Frog. Just because everyone does "it" doesn't make it right. Isn't this what concerned parents tell their wayward children all the time?


Old Poolman profile image

Old Poolman 4 years ago from Rural Arizona

Bottom line is Obama is just one of the best liars we have had in office for a long time. In truth, they all tell us what we want to hear, and will adjust the numbers to suit the situation. Most of us are aware the real unemployment number is somewhere near 20% regardless of the number they give us. To deny this 8% number is a lie is just fooling yourself.


TheManWithNoPants profile image

TheManWithNoPants 4 years ago from Tucson, Az.

John,

While showing you respect, I want to try and tell you why those of us right of center feel the way we do.

Yes, they all lie. They all do a lot of things. The difference here is, there ain't no wiggle room bro. In the first 19 months of this administration Obama increased the debt held by the public by 2.5 trillion. That's more than all the presidents from Washington through Reagan, and done at a time when the economy was already sliding off a cliff as a result Bush spending and the imfamous housing bubble. (and more) Then the president litterally shoved his trillion dollar health care down our throats. Considering the delicate balance of this tight rope we're walkin on, lies, mistakes, and arrogance count a little more. Most of us don't hate Mr. Obama. It's just seeing how he responds to a crisis honestly scares the hell out of us. I've been in business most of my working life, and Washington breaks every law of running a successful business there is. Congress sucks and has sucked for a very long time, but he's in charge as we navigate through the most dangerous storm in our history. Yes, the stakes are high, and mistakes can kill us. His lies count heavily I'm afraid.

jim


WillStarr profile image

WillStarr 4 years ago from Phoenix, Arizona

John Holden

Should Obama be excused because 'everybody does it"? I assume that's your point, because otherwise, you would not have offered it up at all.

As was pointed out elsewhere, the new 'jobs' that helped bring the unemployment number down are mostly menial and temporary. And of course, those who gave up looking for work or took a menial job are no longer counted as 'unemployed'.

During the Bush years, the percentage of Americans employed hit a high of 49.3%. Today, it is all the way down to 45.3%, a disastrous low.

No, everybody does not 'do it'.


John Holden profile image

John Holden 4 years ago

Well seeing as the best argument the hub writer can come up with is that I'm an idiot, I'd best abandon you all to your hate fest in case all your sanity begins to rub off on me!

Nowhere do I say it's OK to juggle figures, only that it is common practice for people of any party to do it and to pick on Obama is divisive in the extreme.

If you all need time to look up the meaning of "divisive" no need to rush, I'm gone.


Partisan Patriot 4 years ago

Froggy

Great job of exposing the Regime's latest "smoke and mirror" game; they have already tried to expand their green jobs created number by counting the hand that works the Kermit the Frog Puppet as a green job so these latest maneuvers don’t come as any surprise!


WillStarr profile image

WillStarr 4 years ago from Phoenix, Arizona

"...to pick on Obama is divisive in the extreme."

All presidents get 'picked on'. Remember Bush? So why is it 'divisive' to pick on Obama, when it was just fine with Bush?


John Holden profile image

John Holden 4 years ago

No, you're right. Bush only lied to take his country to war, nothing like as bad as unemployment figures is it?


TheManWithNoPants profile image

TheManWithNoPants 4 years ago from Tucson, Az.

John,

My organization is all about bringing those on both sides together who can rise above the hate game, and be honest about real problems and real solutions. It's about taking ownership of problems together. To show I'm sincere, I've been the first to point out the things that are broken on my own conservative side. I need people who are unafraid to do the same on the liberal side. They are hard to find, but almost 30% of the Housefire Project is made up of such people. As the founder, I depend on people people talking about their own weaknesses without having to have it handed to them. It doesn't always work, but we're making headway. If you knew me, you would really appreciate the fact that I judge people on results. Black and white. Gray is nice, but results are red and black, which, unfortunatly, is found in the world of BLACK and white. You're either going forward or falling behind. Nothing is stationary. It either gets better or worse. Perhaps you should express your views in a different venue. The Frog Prince is truly a person who loves his country more than most. He does what he does the way he does it, and we need him. He's never really gotten the respect he deserves actually. Yeah, there's some thin skin here, but you ought to see what some of those on the liberal side do to us. (laughing) There are some folks on the left who've done nothing but down vote us in order to lower our hub score for our opinions, not our writing. They can ALSO be very insulting. That's why I don't go to the forums and play these games. I almost stay away from the comments section, because I hate wasting time so much. I have no respect for anyone left or right who does these acts of cowardness. We're living in some scary times, and emotions are raw I guess. You can visit any of my hubs, and I'll treat you with respect as long as you do the same with me. I'm afraid I'm pretty harsh with closed minded people who just want to trade insults for sure. I don't get the feeling that this is the case with you, and I DO like a healthy open minded debate.

jim


TheManWithNoPants profile image

TheManWithNoPants 4 years ago from Tucson, Az.

John,

Geeze bro, you're not even an American! I love my brothers and sisters over in the UK, but come on dude .. Let us know you're a foreigner before you weigh in. You really should have a dog in the fight before taking a stand against us. Damn. I should remember to check profiles BEFORE I comment. Oh well, I said I was the coolest, not the smartest. :/


The Frog Prince profile image

The Frog Prince 4 years ago from Arlington, TX Author

John - I didn't call you an idiot but you just did. Bush acted on the intel he was supplied. It proved to be faulty intel but the POTUS isn't an intelligence officer.

The fact remains that nothing you have said pertains directly to the facts and figures contained in this Hub. That is what this Hub is all about. It is used as an educational too to provide clarity to what the BLS is doing and has been doing since 1994. Obama just happens to be sitting in the hot seat now and using faulty data to try to improve his reelection prospects.

Living here in this country, not the UK, I find it important to present the truth. I didn't make any of this Hub up. It is factual and Obama is who he is and he asked for the job so he better be prepared to take the heat it involves.

The Frog


WillStarr profile image

WillStarr 4 years ago from Phoenix, Arizona

"Bush only lied to take his country to war, nothing like as bad as unemployment figures is it?"

Ah-ha! So it's not really what you said it was at all? It's not about 'divisiveness' or 'everybody does it'?

It's really about a UK liberal supporting Obama while attacking Bush? Would that be a more honest appraisal?


CHRIS57 profile image

CHRIS57 4 years ago from Northern Germany

I went through the comments and had a good laugh sometimes.

One question please: Were the methods of counting ever changed? If not, then what is the point? That groups of poor people were neglected for decades?


Old Poolman profile image

Old Poolman 4 years ago from Rural Arizona

Very interesting study in this comment section. A person from the UK, not a US Citizen, took total control of the comments. Funny how that happens.


The Frog Prince profile image

The Frog Prince 4 years ago from Arlington, TX Author

Chris - The BLS changed their method of counting in 1994. Who was President in 1994? The point is, and I thought it was pretty clear, is the federal government (Obama in particular at this point) is lying to the American people about the real effective rate of unemployment. At this time, Obama is using false data in an attempt to get himself reelected.

OP - Now you know as the author and moderator of this Hub who controls the comments. Sometimes trolls provide a certain amount of entertainment value.

The Frog


John Holden profile image

John Holden 4 years ago

OK Will, I am from the UK, no secret. But I'm not a liberal, I wasn't supporting Obama and I wasn't attacking Bush. So no, like everything else, not a honest appraisal.


The Frog Prince profile image

The Frog Prince 4 years ago from Arlington, TX Author

John - I suggest you now move on since you have nothing constructive to add to the discussion. CYA...

The Frog


WillStarr profile image

WillStarr 4 years ago from Phoenix, Arizona

"I wasn't attacking Bush."

Calling him a liar is not an attack? Since when?

In any case, if Bush 'lied' about the WMD's in Iraq, that means he knew very well that they did not exist, which also means that he was far smarter than all the world's intelligence agencies who were totally convinced that Saddam had all kinds of WMD's!

So which is it?


John Holden profile image

John Holden 4 years ago

Frog, what is your definition of constructive? Wouldn't be total agreement and nothing else would it?

Will, UN weapons inspectors had been insisting for some time that Saddam had no WMDs.


WillStarr profile image

WillStarr 4 years ago from Phoenix, Arizona

"Will, UN weapons inspectors had been insisting for some time that Saddam had no WMDs."

Source? In any case, the world's intelligence communities all thought Saddam had stockpiles of WMD's, so if Bush lied, as you assert, that means he KNEW Saddam had no WMD's. A lie is a deliberate falsehood, not just a mistake.

You should apologize.


John Holden profile image

John Holden 4 years ago

Source for your claim that the worlds intelligence communities thought Saddam had stock piles please.

"During the lead-up to war in March 2003, Hans Blix had found no stockpiles of WMD and had made significant progress toward resolving open issues of disarmament noting "proactive" but not always the "immediate" Iraqi cooperation as called for by UN Security Council Resolution 1441. He concluded that it would take “but months” to resolve the key remaining disarmament tasks.[4] The United States asserted this was a breach of Resolution 1441 but failed to convince the UN Security Council to pass a new resolution authorizing the use of force due to lack of evidence.[5][6][7] Despite being unable to get a new resolution authorizing force and citing section 3 of the Joint Resolution passed by the U.S. Congress,[8] President George W. Bush asserted peaceful measures could not disarm Iraq of the weapons he alleged it to have and launched a second Gulf War,[9] despite multiple dissenting opinions[10] and questions of integrity[11][12][13] about the underlying intelligence.[14] Later U.S.-led inspections agreed that Iraq had earlier abandoned its WMD programs, but asserted Iraq had an intention to pursue those programs if UN sanctions were ever lifted.[15] Bush later said that the biggest regret of his presidency was "the intelligence failure" in Iraq,[16] while the Senate Intelligence Committee found in 2008 that his administration "misrepresented the intelligence and the threat from Iraq".[17] A key CIA informant in Iraq admitted that he lied about his allegations, "then watched in shock as it was used to justify the war".[18]"

From Wilkipedia but pretty much as I remember it.


poetvix profile image

poetvix 4 years ago from Gone from Texas but still in the south. Surrounded by God's country.

Sir Frog, I just had to come back. My radar was going batty. Forgive me please for addressing another on your hub, but I just can’t resist.

John Holden, Sir,

You state all governments at some time cook the books. I agree. That does not make it right! Should we idly stand by and be silent? I think not. Further, if you were caught cooking the books you could land in jail. Why should they get away with it again, and again and again?

Next, I take objection to you calling Sir Frog’s thinking “moronic”. While none of us agree all the time, to sink to the level of personal insults is demeaning. It is the last resort when logic fails and temper takes the lead.

Further, Sir, and I do really mean that respectfully, I take real objection to your claim that this hub, because it presents the truth which you, yourself admit when you state, “…they all do it…” is divisive. If you, yourself admit to the truth of it, I don’t think it fair to call this divisive. I do see your point of if Obama is to be called on it why not all others. Well, sir, all others are not in power at the current time. If we are to truly examine our national issues and try to fix them we must deal with the present. You state, “Bush lied.” Perhaps he did, perhaps not, but regardless that’s in the past. We must deal with the present. In the present I see children come to school everyday hungry because mommy and daddy who have always worked like slaves are now unemployed. To me this is important to the now.

Now, to further address the issue of your complaint that this hub is “divisive”… Class warfare is divisive, especially when the rich are really being labeled as anyone working for very little above minimum wage. The Occupy Movement, while at heart having some valid points, is divisive and funding for said movement has been traced back to the party of the President. Working around and above Congress is divisive. Passing legislation the vast majority of the country is opposed to is divisive.

Lastly, you talk about how Bush went against the UN. You are right I think. But, again he is past. We can’t fix the past but I pray to God we can fix the future. The only way that can be done is by looking at it honestly. I am no fan of the UN. How many countries represented there does the USA send massive amounts of money to over and over only to have them oppose us, only to see horrible crimes against humanity and the value of human life perpetrated in? Are you really, truly believing a man such as Sadam did not commit atrocities daily upon the people of his country? Just the way women are treated there is enough for me to be offended by. Perhaps we entered that war for good cause and perhaps not. We can’t live in the past. A man of cruelty beyond measure is gone because of it. That’s one point for good.

I do not mean to be confrontational here in my comments addressed to you but rather am just trying to point out that the Frog is working with the current situation and trying to address it. That is constructive.


The Frog Prince profile image

The Frog Prince 4 years ago from Arlington, TX Author

John - Constructive means to "remain on the topic at hand." You haven't since your arrival on this Hub.

So, I will now be very specific. You have two choices. You can either get on topic and stay there or you can leave and not come back. One more off topic remark and it will be the very last you make on this Hub or anything else I write.

Do we understand each other? Your disruptive behavior will not be tolerated any longer.

The Frog


WillStarr profile image

WillStarr 4 years ago from Phoenix, Arizona

Here:

http://www.airpower.au.af.mil/airchronicles/cc/tra...

BTW, both your source and my source confirm that Bush was misled, so your assertion that he 'lied' was wrong, and clearly calls for an apology.

I'm waiting.


John Holden profile image

John Holden 4 years ago

Poetvix, actually, it was the frog who called me moronic, I only reposted.

Frog, I beg to defer, my original and intended to be my only reply, was that all politicians cook the books whether in power or in opposition which I think was very much on topic. Your followers pulled it off topic.

It matters not a jot to me if you object to my "disruptive behaviour" after all, I gain nothing from it whereas you gain plenty. In other words, it's your loss.


John Holden profile image

John Holden 4 years ago

No chance that Obama was misled about the unemployment figures though?

". . .the Senate Intelligence Committee found in 2008 that his administration "misrepresented the intelligence and the threat from Iraq".[17] A key CIA informant in Iraq admitted that he lied about his allegations, "then watched in shock as it was used to justify the war"."


poetvix profile image

poetvix 4 years ago from Gone from Texas but still in the south. Surrounded by God's country.

Jon - Looking at the comments above, he did not call you a moron. The term was first introduced when he said it was “moronic thinking”. Yes, he said when one moron follows the next but if you look again, he was not applying the term to you directly but rather using your logic when you say they all cook the books as in if one does it that doesn’t make it ok for the next and the next. In following comments you state he called you an idiot. He did not. Perhaps you are being overly sensitive. It’s easy to misinterpret text. I have done it before.

As for your comment about could not Obama have been misled by the unemployment figures, yes, that is possible. I feel however, if we are be honest and consistent, he has done nothing to improve unemployment other than grow government jobs. This is not said to be argumentative merely to point out some facts. If he has a jobs plan to develop some other than governmental ones or ones from money given to companies that then turn around and file bankruptcy, I would surely love to hear about them.


WillStarr profile image

WillStarr 4 years ago from Phoenix, Arizona

It was the opinion of Rockefeller (a Democrat) that the Bush administration misled the public, but there no evidence to support that opinion. It's simply an opinion.

The claim that Bush 'lied' has never been supported by fact, and still isn't:

http://intelligence.senate.gov/press/record.cfm?id...


TheManWithNoPants profile image

TheManWithNoPants 4 years ago from Tucson, Az.

Come on guys. The Brits are cool, but this is about American Politics. Princess Eugenie is running around naked at her boarding school in Wilkshire. If we're going to entertain our guest, let's weigh in on that. It's none of our business, but what the hell. This really isn't any of his. Okay, I'll start. I think Princess Eugenie has a bit of a large arse. That seems rather disgusting, waving that white bag of kittens around for all to see. What say you?

jim


poetvix profile image

poetvix 4 years ago from Gone from Texas but still in the south. Surrounded by God's country.

I can't say anything, Jim. I'm laughing too hard!


TheManWithNoPants profile image

TheManWithNoPants 4 years ago from Tucson, Az.

poetvix,

Hey girl! It's good to hear some laughter finally! It's been just entirely too dry them here. It's fun to argue, but man, ya gotta mix in a smile once in a while!

jim


anjegirl profile image

anjegirl 4 years ago from Myrtle Beach,SC

John,

The Euro is tanking and shouldn't you be online trying to do something about that in your own country?? Did your government tell you that the Euro was tanking months ago? No, but they knew it months ago. In fact many of the lame countries from the UN met last summer without the US to try to make the Euro the world's currency instead of the US dollar and then they realized that the Euro was tanking. Oops, maybe we'll hold off on that proposal! Shouldn't the world have known about this that so many countries in Europe were in fact "bankrupt?"

The European economy is now tanking and I read last night the list of countries that are now bankrupt includes much of Europe and several surrounding countries with more to be bankrupt just around the corner and they are taking the whole world down with them. I really think that you have enough problems at home that coming on a US forum for the sole purpose of stirring up shite is moronic on its face!!

And this is something that happens all the time and the person from the UK or Australia will do exactly what you are doing and then one of us will go to a profile and learn the "antagonist" is from a socialized country across a pond somewhere. Really, don't you have things in your country to bitch about???

All of the antagonists who come here to change the flow of intelligent information and conversation written by true Patriots on this hub claim not to be liberals and maybe in your country you are not a liberal, but in my country anyone who supports this lying President is either a liberal or a moron.

We watched helplessly as P.Diddy and his cronies bussed black people to the voter registration booths and then bussed them in again and told them to vote straight "D" tickets. That is not a democracy! We watched as Oprah Winfrey spoke out for the first time ever to support Obama and watched as she swayed many women's votes. For the first time ever,she got involved by publicly lending her support to this man. I actually had her show on the day she said it. I had to sit down and it made me sick that she had to jump into the political arena for the first time ever and she had them on her show and she did a huge ra-ra speech to help get him elected. She even went out on the campaign trail with them. Well they are not on such good terms today because she is about the truth and I am sure that she got emails from tens of thousands of men and women who have been telling her "he lied." Hope and change was a huge lie and now most Americans know it.

About a decade ago USA Today sent reporters all over the country to ask people two questions 1.Do you lie? 2.How many lies do you tell in a week? Americans admitted to telling an average of 8-10 lies every week in their work,

home and play lives. This is an inherent problem in our country and something those of us who read Jim's work will not tolerate.

I saw a black and white documentary in which a home video camera filmed five days of the TRANSPORTING of WMD's from Iraq to parts unknown. The videographer did not accompany the WMD's to their final destination and spoke in the video about risking his life to do this film and the videographer had an English accent. My dad and I watched this film late one nite on the History channel and on the video the date was always visible and he was filming it about 8 months before we invaded Iraq. At one time Iraq did have WMD's and I saw a video documentary which showed them being moved to another country to be buried again as they had been in Iraq. They had truckloads of WMD's that went on for days one or two of which could have blown up the planet. Where are they now? Who knows, but they built them and I have seen them.

Having said that, I do believe that Bush Jr. did not know WHERE these WMD's were and I do believe that he attacked Iraq against advice that they did not have WMD's. Did he think he could find out what Saddam did with the WMD's by capturing and waterboarding him to make him talk? We will never know. I believe Bush invaded Iraq because Saddam was a weapon of mass destruction and he had two sons who were monsters and they had rape rooms in their palaces where they raped tortured and murdered women and they had collectively commited so many acts of violence on the Iraqui people and his dictatorship was sick on a million levels. Bush had a personal vendetta as did all the war mongers who served in his cabinet and his father's.

IMO Bush Jr should have sent our Seals in and taken out Saddam and his sons and other war lords and tried them for crimes against humanity and put them under the jail. He would have been a hero and we wouldn't have blown the hell out of a country that was doing better than most in the Middle East prior to our invasion. There were many cities in Iraq where people had small businesses and when we blew up Baghdad it was the 2nd largest fashion capital in the world, just one example and now it is in shambles as is the whole country and there are more insurgients in country than were there before we started a war in their country. I believe that our war mongers have for many years started wars in an effort to "thin the herd." It is a theme among the members of the Skull and Bonesmen many of whom have known since the 60's that we have grossly overpopulated the planet by a billion people as of 2012 and we are a billion people short of the amount of food we grow on the planet and again the Illuminara and the Bonesmen, Democrats and Republicans alike know that starvation is in our country today and that a million kids in America go to bed hungry every single night and they make plans and they launch campaigns to "thin the herd." That was the plan behind our recent campaign to send guns to the Cartels in Mexico to "thin the herd." I have worked with politicians for forty years in this country, democrats, republicans and independants and they only differ in their thinking and their speeches when campaigning or when they are on TV. The rest of the time they all agree that ONE WORLD ORDER is the future and America will be the land of the Aristocrats of the world and this is why the TRUTH matters in my country and why you should try it in yours.

Man with NO pants, what are you talking about? I think that the rest of us may have missed the clip of Eugenie naked at boarding school with a bag of kittens. Really? EWWWWW I say the murder at the Palace is bigger news, but what do I know???

And for 200 years in our country and in spite of our Constitution the Roosevelts, the Rockefellers, the Kennedy's, the Bushes, the Clintons and the Obama's who have held the highest seat in the world have planned and plotted toward ONE WORLD ORDER and all of them have lied to the American people and to the world in order to achieve their collective socialized goals. And by all accounts, they are winning and the people only about 20% of which have studied these areas that I have studied to get the info I have compliled about this subtle takeover of our freedoms are fighting tooth and nail to prevent a world wide takeover. Lying is destroying our country as it has destroyed many countries before us and for most of us is completely unacceptable and is the reason for the total disconnect between the American people, this President and Congress. The truth will set the world free and you won't find it at the UN.

In America we don't see Wikipedia as printing "gospel" truths and we don't believe everything that we see or hear in the news.If you read up on Obama, you will see what we already know. He is the most divisive President in modern history and by far the biggest liar. He has sparked racial issues all over our country when we were getting so close to getting over this divisive issue. When his campaign speeches start to be played back to him as we go into the Presidential election, everyone will know that NOTHING he promised has happened and those of us who knew about the economic crisis that was looming over America KNEW he could not do the things he was promising the American people he would do. We are an Ostrich Nation and most people in our country are in denial about our eco


Wayne Brown profile image

Wayne Brown 4 years ago from Texas

Sorry to show up late for this one...been embroiled with my own trolls! LOL! When Obama showed up for the oath of office, he already had a sitting majority in both the House and Senate. TARP had already been addresses as part of the runaway spending that was already in place with that Congress and regularly hung around Bush's neck. This Congress was already exercising their discretion to not create a budget though they a majority to get one passed. The Bush Administration had already warned Congress on multiple occasions that the housing bubble would likely collapse yet the democrat majority took no actions Frank & Dodd, the creators of this nightmare were still around to talk it down and Pelosi and Reid were running the show. The bubble pops, Obama blames Bush, then sets off on a course to take over 800 billion dollars of taxpayer money and tells the taxpayers that he will spend it to cure this downturn in our economy. His stops to drop off money seemed to be mostly limited to large labor unions (who would just launder the money back into the democrat party coffers); Green Energy schemes whose time has not yet come in the market place and do little to support the job market at this point, and of course, Fannie and Freddie to keep Frank and Dodd from looking like fools. Along the way, he promised to get and keep the unemployment below 8% because, in his mind, the government is the grand creator of all jobs. Contrary to that plan, he turns the NLRB loose on private sector job producers who even consider any business expansions in non-union right to work states. He shuts down deep-water drilling in the gulf sending thousands of jobs to other shores, only to toss another 400 billion dollars at South American countries in the name of off-shore drilling and oil refining. He threw away the Keystone pipeline because it represented no real benefit to his union supporters and it put him at odds with his rabid environmentalist backers. He took Congress to the mat on budget extensions, agreed to a compromise and then pulled the rug out from under that at the last minute by demanding the compromise cover an additional $400 billion dollars in stimulus spending. He then laid the blame for that lack of an agreement at the feet of the Republicans who cowered in their corners and dreamed of re-election chances like Christmas children watch sugar plums dance in their heads. He stumbles into the last year of his first term with unemployment still over 8.5% and works to cook the books so that it appears to be on a downward trend; makes recess appointments to the NLRB when the Legislative branch is not in recess; and informs the public that he needs another trillion dollars to close the books on spending for the year and that he is more than willing to borrow it and spend it without Congressional oversight or approval. And, just for good measure let's throw in Obamacare as a tie-breaker to say the least along with the $500 billion dollars he drained out of the Medicare revenue stream to use as seed money for a program that the majority of Americans did not want. Given all of that and we have an argument here about whether or not this man is "devisive"? Duh??? I keep delivering the message over and over again. This man has one mission and one direction. He is determined to destroy the American economy; put the government into financial banruptcy so deep that it can never recover; and declare democracy, capitalism, and Constitutional government as dead subjects in the land once called America. His primary focus is to deliver the head of America on a plate to his financial daddy-longlegs, George Soros, and launch America on a course of socialist governance. He has made it clear that he holds no respect for the Constitution or any government that is derived from it. Funny... a Columbia University Magna Cum Lauda honors graduate in Law and he comes away with such a perspective on the Constitution and Constitutional Law? I have seen some crooked politicians in my day and even they had some level of transparency but this guy is in your face and laughing at what he is able to get away with on a regular basis. To think that the American public might give credible consideration to re-electing him to office for another term is beyond the scope of sanity or any desire to have freedom, liberty, and justice in our days to come. WB


John Holden profile image

John Holden 4 years ago

anjegirl, Er yes, we've known that the euro is tanking in some countries for many more than a few months. We don't use the Euro in the UK though.

With regards to Wikipedia, you will note that I said that it broadly agreed with my memory of events, not that every thing on Wiki was gospel.

You ask why I come on here and comment when I'm from the UK, well like it or not when the US sneezes the rest of the world catches a cold.


The Frog Prince profile image

The Frog Prince 4 years ago from Arlington, TX Author

Wow! A lot happened while I slept.

John - I'm sure you read poetvix's comment about the moron issue. Now I know you speak the Queen's English but "moronic thinking" as I used isn't, wasn't and never will be calling you a moron. It may be a matter of reading comprehension and application of words in the proper context so we'll lay that aside. And no, I don't think the BLS misled Obama about the unemployment figures, As I pointed out here they have been doing a version of this magic trick since 1994. What is being done on a larger scale in this administration is the manipulation of the "participation rate." I suggest you go back up and specifically read that section of the article. That is nothing but a deception and smoke and mirrors. You just cook that number to make it go down and Viola. But it still will not be reality in the employment marketplace.

jim - I haven't seen, nor do I probably want to see, Princess Eugenie's butt lately. I'll give my eyes a chance to rest before I take a gander, if I decide to take a gander.

anje - Having been involved in Desert Storm I can only say that the most serious mistake we made was to not finish the job at that time that needed to be finished. That decision was strictly based upon political considerations and pissed the hell out of Stormin' Norman who was one of the finest warriors the US Army has ever produced. The result of that allowed that saber rattling, ruthless fruitcake named Saddam Hussein to continue to pose a threat to both his own countrymen but also the region in general. Whether Bush was misled, and he admitted in several interviews that he was, is really now in the past. It is called history.

Wayne - Dammit man! What a splendid run down of the failures, and political manipulation, of Obama. He has yet to take any responsibility after three years going on 4 for the mess he helped exacerbate even though he said he could fix the economy in three years. If cooking the books on this magnitude, or even allowing it, is the fix then we are in deep trouble. Many people in this nation now see him for who he is, what he has done and what he has not done. The negatives far outweigh the positives as you pointed out in your comment. Four more years of Obama and none of us will recognize the US that we know and love. At least I love this country to the max and don't want to see an individual who fits the Manchurian candidate profile to a "T" destroy this nation. This isn't a movie or novel though, this is real life with real people's livelihood at stake.

John again - I have to admire the Brits for not hanging their monetary star on the Euro. I thought the whole concept was going to run awry when they did it and I see I was correct in that evaluation. I also see your press as functioning in the role they should which is to be an honest broker in reporting the truth. Our Lame Stream Media is so biased that it is truly pathetic.

So on we go, where this stops nobody knows.

The Frog


John Holden profile image

John Holden 4 years ago

" Get a grip man. That is moronic thinking."

"and your comments are about as idiotic as I've encountered lately"

Your words, not mine.

Hey, you must have heard of Margaret Thatcher, that bastion of the right wing the world over? In the early 80s she really cooked the books on unemployment in the UK, shifting around one million (25%) people off the unemployment numbers and transferring them to long term sick. We're still sorting that mess out. Then she knocked a good few more off by only counting the first full month and the last full month as unemployed, that meant people could be unemployed for two months less one day and not be counted at all.

You really think you have a problem?


John Holden profile image

John Holden 4 years ago

Some, a very small amount of our press operates as it should, much of our press is owned by the same sharks that own the American press!


The Frog Prince profile image

The Frog Prince 4 years ago from Arlington, TX Author

That's right. I recognize moronic thinking when I see it and also when someone starts making idiotic statements without a basis of fact. Like I said, "Put it in the proper context." If the shoe fits then stop doing it. That's usually sound advice and has nothing to do with calling anyone a moron or an idiot. It has to do with thinking and speech. Have you ever taken a course in logic John? It was a ball buster but it taught me how to exercise critical thinking and speaking effectively whenever I speak.

I suggest you stop beating a dead horse to death and maybe move on.

The Frog


John Holden profile image

John Holden 4 years ago

I'm happy to move on and leave the beating of dead horses to you.

I would ask what statements you thinking that I'm making without basis in fact, but really I can't be bothered.

I think that I've already given this hub far more clout than it deserves.


anjegirl profile image

anjegirl 4 years ago from Myrtle Beach,SC

John

If you check it I did not say that the UK is using the EURO I said as you pointed out that the tanking of the EURO is in your backyard and told you that you should be more concerned about what if anything your country is doing about that. The tanking of the EURO affects all of us and while we are sneezing over here our dollar is tanking as well and the point I was trying to make is that if you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem. Those of us on this hub are trying to be part of the solution.


The Frog Prince profile image

The Frog Prince 4 years ago from Arlington, TX Author

Hey John. My Hubs do quite well without you. Don't give yourself too much credit because the only thing you've contributed here is a certain entertainment value to other commenters. We sometimes enjoy the loose cannons of the world. CYA


poetvix profile image

poetvix 4 years ago from Gone from Texas but still in the south. Surrounded by God's country.

I can certainly, without a shadow of a doubt, attest to the undeniable fact that Sir Frog's hubs do very well.

Jon~ What's up with the oh so confrontational attitude? The Frog Prince is really pretty cool. He tells it like it is and is typically respectful and polite even to dissenting opinions. Contrary to what you say, all anyone has to do is scroll through the comments to see you are the one that started the confrontational, insulting trend here. You took a comment that was not personally attacking you and took it as such, then went off the deep end with the testosterone. It’s rude. It’s, to boil it down, akin to starting sh#t in someone else’s house. Give it a rest. Lay off the Frog.

Sir Frog, I do apologize as it was not my place to say what I just did to John, but seriously, it’s getting old and enough is enough. All the time this squabbling with him is taking up is keeping us from getting to read the next hub you could be publishing! (I have to say though; the Man With No Pants’ comment still has me giggling).


SanXuary 4 years ago

We know this book gets cooked during every primary. Add all the seasonal employers makes it look great until 1 January. I laughed when I read the lie paper but noticed the stock market didn't fall for it and dropped the rest of the week.


The Frog Prince profile image

The Frog Prince 4 years ago from Arlington, TX Author

poetvix - I don't think you need to apologize to me or anyone else here. I've been in the blogging world for quite some time now and I know the mark of someone who is trolling articles looking to do nothing more than be confrontational and disruptive. You know by their first comment and I just from that point on deal with them. It is very rude but they are out here in cyberspace.

Forums like this allow all users to interact with all the other users. You can comment to, and on, any user you care to. The interaction is usually a good thing and I encourage good discourse. What you told John both times was correct. The first about name calling which I don't do and now this last one. You're just calling it like it is poetvix.

SanXuary - You noticed that the stock market shrugged about the cooked numbers too?

The Frog


SanXuary 4 years ago

Both parties have cooked the books every election, I noticed this for as long as I can remember. In fact the data is flawed by several percentage points at all times. The key is to count the unemployed but it mainly keeps numbers on only those who are applying for unemployment. Any assistance such as college and no record of assistance are not allowed on the books if they have a desire to change the numbers. Whatever, number it is always goes to the person who is in office. Is it fair to asses it anyway? The unelected official can not be compared on these numbers to begin with?


The Frog Prince profile image

The Frog Prince 4 years ago from Arlington, TX Author

SanXuary - The numbers don't include the under employed and several other categories. Anyone who believes the numbers coming out of the BLS needs to do some thinkin'.

John - It goes like this. The discussion as far as you are concerned is over. Understand? You keep wanting to beat a dead horse so I'll tell you like you told me entering the conversation. GET REAL! Believe me I am very real and tired of your diatribes about something that isn't related to this Hub. CYA

The Frog


Old Poolman profile image

Old Poolman 4 years ago from Rural Arizona

Bottom line is we can't believe a single number coming out of Washington. In most cases the desired result, (The Number), comes first, and the input adjusted accordingly. We all know many of the new jobs reported were seasonal temporary jobs that are no longer required. It will be interesting to see what the next reported number will be since these temporary jobs are long gone. This unemployment number is a very heavy number because of the economy and campaign promises. We will never know what the real unemployment number is as it will always be a created number.

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