Equal Opportunities....Welcome to the real world.

Where profile counts more than proficiency.

"I am white, British, female, straight, non-religious and non-disabled but I have to wonder if I was black or Indian, gay, Buddhist, disabled would I be more likely to get a job? "

Wrote Jenblacksheep in her hub:

http://hubpages.com/hub/Equal-Opportunities-and-Diversity-Is-This-Equality

To give you the short answer Jen...

Yes, I'm afraid you would.

Listen while reading!

Welcome to the real world....

If you reversed most of what you wrote above, you would be highly attractive to someone needing to fulfil a diversity quota, if you could also do the job, that would be a bonus, but filling the quota would be your main 'qualification'.

That's a hard fact to have to accept, but it's how our society runs today.

When I left school, voluntarily at 15 with no paper qualifications, employment was strictly at the employers behest, and anyone could employ whoever they wanted.

This did mean that some discrimination was present in the system, but it also meant that the employer hired the best available person and therefore people strived to be the best they could, to get the job, and to stay employed.

You cannot legislate equality without causing discrimination.

You have grown up in an equal opportunity society, where you are now discriminated against because you cannot meet government diversity quotas due to you patent normality.

This is called social engineering, and I'm sure they covered that in your philosophy course, no, they forgot to mention it?.... I thought as much.

Unfortunately I am a baby boomer, same age as all the other baby boomers who run society these days, kith and kin with Gordon and Tony and elder brother to Dave and 'Barry', unwelcome relative to Bill and Hilary....

We do share a common denominator, in that we all wanted to change society in our youth, and some of us went to extreme measures to do so.

Bill dodged the draft with great persistence in order to be free to protest against Vietnam, only wondering whether his actions would be better viewed if he served in the military for a while, then discounting that notion because it would discredit his 'liberal protestor' credentials.

Bill is by no means the worst illustration, generally most of the folk running things today are just as toady corrupt and deceptive as each other, so I point no fingers specifically, the whole lot are guilty of creating the mess we have today.

You (and I'm not talking specifically to Jen here, but to our future leaders and rulers in general) have all been indoctrinated by the system we created to change the world, and unfortunately we succeeded in changing the world, but not necessarily for the better.

We wanted equality, but in forcing the issue have created discrimination.

Sure the minorities are now protected, but the majority is now discriminated against.

Happy chappie bunch of equal something or others...
Happy chappie bunch of equal something or others...
...and some more...
...and some more...
...it's difficult to get new camera poses as we ill see..
...it's difficult to get new camera poses as we ill see..
..just variations on a theme...
..just variations on a theme...
to show all are equal....
to show all are equal....
though some may end up more equal
though some may end up more equal

To understand this illustration fully, you need two glasses, one full of water, the other empty, now if you pour water from one glass into the other, then the glass that was full becomes less full and the other glass gains some water it never had.

Life seems to be rather like that.... in order for one person to have something, someone else needs to go without or lose some of what they had.

It's a simple fact that has been missed by the social engineers who decided to change the world without holding a trial run first, so in my living memory I have seen:

  • Phonetic spelling replace learning how to spell.
  • The switch (in the UK) from a currency that had 960 possible levels of price change in it, to one where there were 100.
  • The enforcement of the law where it became obligatory to fit seat belts to all new cars (and eventually they made the law that made it obligatory to wear them as well).
  • The start of the Race Relations Industry.
  • The sale of all state owned assets to foreign 'powers'
  • The freedom of speech curtailed.
  • The police fully armed in any situation.
  • The loss of civil rights as the law and public opinion has been slowly shifted from innocent until proven guilty, to guilty until proven innocent, in matters of individual choice.
  • The deliberate relaxation of all immigration controls in order to bring about globalisation, and 'diversity.
  • The complete takeover of Europe by a non elected European Parliament, leading to eventual loss of sovereignty for the nation states involved.

Now if you are not an old reactionary like me, if you have been born post 1970, you probably agree with some if not all of those changes, after all they replaced archaic laws from the past and made life so much better for everyone.....didn't they?

Jen complains about how the NuLabour NuThinking on equality is stopping her from earning cash, but that is the surface ripple of an effect that is far deeper reaching than this inconvenience.

The very ground upon which we once based our standards has been undermined as effectively as Wellington dug under Badajoz and the 'forlorn hope ' of the New World Order are standing ready to pour into the breech just as soon as the sappers are done with the mining.

We now live in a subjective society, where no absolutes are welcomed or even allowed in many cases.

What was held as an absolute 50 years ago is now just one of many options that may exist as the answer to a question.

We no longer have husbands and wives, we have 'partners'.....being old fashioned, when I had a business partnership, I referred to my business partner as my partner, and noticed that the world had changed from anyone understanding what I meant, to everyone assuming that I was 'gay' and that my 'partner' was my homosexual boyfriend.

The very meaning of the word has been changed, actually the meaning of both words, partner and gay, have been stolen from the English language.

It's a strange world we live in today and not an improvement in many ways.

I hated the '70's they were a time of stupid pop songs dressed as original, bizarre and 'punk' being played to the background of the first breakdowns of the system created by social engineering.

We saw race riots, ordinary riots, wildcat strikes and police brutality.

Three day working weeks and short range government with no real idea how to stop the runaway juggernaut of social iniquity.

Years later I realised that the whole thing was planned and I had played my part, as a young villain and thief, then as a wide boy salesman, rip off builder, dodgy 'strange equipment' provider to aggressive regimes, then fake upper class Estate Agent with a Central London agency.

Getting refused for not being diverse enough was never a problem, no sane employer would ever hire me during those years, though many wanted to use my 'talents' during the last years when I met and associated with the real money shakers in London.

Life is just not fair, and God is JUST, not FAIR also.

Her dress was too short and she was drunk....
Her dress was too short and she was drunk....
Nobody oversaw the accountants decisions and so the partners never realised that he/she had been draining funds from the company.
Nobody oversaw the accountants decisions and so the partners never realised that he/she had been draining funds from the company.
The politicians apologised for 'flipping' their second homes and evading capital gains tax, and counter argued that they had acted within the rules...
The politicians apologised for 'flipping' their second homes and evading capital gains tax, and counter argued that they had acted within the rules...
Some had even employed expensive lawyers and accountants to verify that they were able to make those claims...
Some had even employed expensive lawyers and accountants to verify that they were able to make those claims...

See what a difference that little comma change produces?

Different views of the same words... we have a society where it's become about fairness, not justice, where the criminal is now the disadvantaged one who needs support, whereas the victim is mostly to blame for the crime having taken place in the first place.

  • Her dress was too short and she was drunk.
  • Nobody oversaw the accountants decisions and so the partners never realised that he/she had been draining funds from the company.
  • The politicians apologised for 'flipping' their second homes and evading capital gains tax, and counter argued that they had acted within the rules. Some had even employed expensive lawyers and accountants to verify that they were able to make those claims.

All these situations, though just examples, are what happens when subjectivity is allowed to evict absolute truth from the baseline of our democracy.

We are now a people of self justification, we need no God to guide our thoughts, or remind us of our faults, we can babble on until we develop a positive spin to the whole issue and make any guilt disappear, leaving us as white as snow....well that's not really true....we are filthy rags on a white snow-scape, but whatever....for nobody expects any better now and who cares anyway.

So in order to solve the temporal problem of Jen no longer qualifying as having sufficient diversity to get given a job, we need to look much deeper at the root of the problem.

The world has decided that being 'different' is no longer politically correct, so in order to ensure that the minority; who are truly different in physical, mental, cultural or sexual matters, are not 'discriminated' against, the whole of society must be re educated to never mention any deficiency in anybody, for fear of undermining their confidence and offending their rights to 'diversity'.

Coming to Spain 25 years ago allowed me to miss the drip drip technique employed by the British authorities to emasculate the average British male (One cannot say Englishman any longer) to a point where they have accepted that the minority now rule the majority.

It also allowed me quickly to realise that death, which had already been nationalised in the UK, was not the sanitised affair that the Britain had made it....where your loved one just passed away on cue to the sounds of a doctor administering a large morphine shot.

In Spain death still walked the streets in Pamplona where young men ran in front of the bulls and some were killed.

No Health & Safety unit in the UK would ever allow that to happen, and the animal rights chaps would be up in arms that a 750 kilo bull had to face a 100 kilo runner alone, even if it was in the middle of the pack.

No in Spain men stood in rings with large beasts, albeit much disabled, but still deadly in intent and ability, men, in pink suites with beads and other bright things sewn in, killed the bull with a sword or a knife.

And sometimes died as the bull gored them to death.

Spaniards knew what death was first hand, both from the civil war period and from seeing it at home as they killed their food and watched their old folk die in their campo houses.

So if you want to be able to hire or fire whoever you want, if you equally want to be hired or fired purely on your ability, not on some set of rules designed to bring everyone to the same level, then start at the root of the problems and stop this social engineering happening.

They can only play with you when you play with them.

When we (the public) stop playing, when we start saying what we think again, rather than what we have been told is the correct thing to say, when we find our national 'cajones ' again and stand up to this oppression and discriminaliation.

You see Jen should not have to say;

"I am white, British, female, straight, non-religious and non-disabled but I have to wonder if I was black or Indian, gay, Buddhist, disabled would I be more likely to get a job? "

She should be able to expect to be employed on her merits alone, but also to be any of those things IF she can do the job.

Diversity means just that; the state or fact of being diverse; difference; unlikeness.

It should celebrate our diffences not attempt to iron them all into one homologous mass of humanity.

If I don't like the next chap, so what.

As long as I don't force myself on him, and he does not have the right to force me to like him, to force himself on me in order to prove how 'civilised' we all are, what's the problem?

If we can properly define what diversity actually means, then you can expect to see things change for the better.

...and to finish off....

More by this Author


Comments 29 comments

aguasilver profile image

aguasilver 6 years ago from Malaga, Spain Author

Thank you Faybe, I suspected we may concur on a few things when I started reading your hubs!

John


Faybe Bay profile image

Faybe Bay 6 years ago from Florida

Oh I believe we will get along. Hello John, I am Faye. My Granfather fought for equal rights and before he died said it ruined the family. Women should not have to work because they may but because they want to. He said, "If I knew they would think we wanted to turn ourselves into the new jobless, we just said there is enough for everybody, not give everybody my job so I can go hungry." Back then he was forced to retire at 62, now they keep saying we get less if we retire early to open a job for someone younger. You have my vote as someone who can see. I guess people might mistake your commentary. I get it.


aguasilver profile image

aguasilver 6 years ago from Malaga, Spain Author

SOBF says:

"Please see the first paragraph of your hub..."

Which refers to a hub by Jenblacksheep and has the link below, MY HUB is in answer to Jen's hub, you must have missed that point.

Like I said, I am a 58 year old white male, Jen on the other hand is as she described:

"I am white, British, female, straight, non-religious and non-disabled but I have to wonder if I was black or Indian, gay, Buddhist, disabled would I be more likely to get a job? "

John...male,religious,not disabled (we share that) and in the sure knowledge that 'if I was black or Indian, gay, Buddhist, disabled would I be more likely to get a job'

Oh, and add ageism to that list as well, I possibly could qualify as disadvantaged due to my vast age, which makes me virtually unemployable outside of major DIY shopping areas...

Ralph, what I mean by social engineering is a whole lot of folks who thought, if we do the following, good things will happen, without any concept of what would happen.

People who play with social engineering walk a very fine line between good intentions and bad results.

The area where my son works, Brooklyn and the projects, seems to be a prime example of what social engineering produces, likewise a few prominenet social engineers were Hitler, Pol Pot, Stalin, to name those who were extreme, and Harold Wilson, Maggie Thatcher and Tony Blair, to name some local social engineers who played with peoples lives, albeit for the 'best' of motive, but who have created dysfunctional society.

"We haven't reached utopia yet, but the improvement has been quite significant, social engineering or not."

'improvement' is of course a subjective opinion.

John


Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds 6 years ago

I'm not sure what you mean by social engineering, but anti-discrimination laws have improved conditions for everyone in the U.S. We haven't reached utopia yet, but the improvement has been quite significant, social engineering or not.


SOBF profile image

SOBF 6 years ago from New York, NY

Please see the first paragraph of your hub...


aguasilver profile image

aguasilver 6 years ago from Malaga, Spain Author

Ralph, anybody who has assimilated into our culture is OK by me, Lady Shirley Bassey would be mortified to be called English, for she is Welsh and proud of it.

You draw the conclusion that simply because I mention that there is an elephant in the corner, I have a thing against elephants... I don't I just have a thing about people being forced NOT to speak about the elephant in the corner.

Joe Barnett, thanks for reading, especially as the comments are now longer than the hub I think!

"reluctantly given up by the powers that be due to gov't tax incentives(tax credits for every woman hired)"

It's the social engineering I am concerned about, I've been surrounded by great women who experienced no glass ceilings in my time, and seen men who were capable passed over to satisfy the god of affirmative action.

I once had a woman boss fire me simply because a major client told her I was good at my job, I understood her fear, she had fought to get that job, LIKE ANY MAN would have done, and she behaved in the same Peter Principal fashion that ANY MAN would have, she was equal because she behaved the same.

All I am saying is STOP playing social engineers using a system that has not been proven to work better.


Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds 6 years ago

How do you like Lady Shirley Bassey? Is she English enough for you? [My earliest maternal ancestor, John Pound, came from England and settled in New Jersey around 1670 or thereabouts. We are all immigrants here, except for the Native Americans.]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=51Wg6k9cWhM


JOE BARNETT profile image

JOE BARNETT 6 years ago

SOBF- so true.

Aguasilver-it's good that you feel good about your current position but there were long and heated debates regarding women going to college, getting jobs beyond sec'y or cashier , teacher, waitress or nurse. you didn't see sbhool principles ,women newscasters, reporters,bus drivers and i could go on and on. this was reluctantly given up by the powers that be due to gov't tax incentives(tax credits for every woman hired) now the big complaint is equal pay for equal work and Obama just signed that into law. debate is healthy


aguasilver profile image

aguasilver 6 years ago from Malaga, Spain Author

SOBF I'm really not sure I understand your comment at all, I'm a 58 year old white male, and the only AA I am aware of is alcoholics anonymous and I've never needed to belong to that.

I've never needed welfare, thank God, nor complained about people getting it whoever they are. I object to people who are not in need getting it as a matter of right, and abusing the system, but have never applied or qualified for welfare, having been self employed since I was 16 years old.

Ralph...I was not actually taught to be racist, but my father did express racist opinions having walked across Burma fighting for his country, and feeling a mite dismayed to see that 'his country' were giving more advantage to 'foreigners' than they were to native born members of 'his country'.

On the other hand I was greatly influenced by my 'adoptive' (in a non legal sense) Jewish mum, who educated me from 13 to 18 years of age and showed me the error of such things.

I am not pessimistic, for I live outside the zone where this will be a problem, indeed, if anything, as the immigrant into Spain I am the problem! - but as you say, we are well used to assimilation in Spain, and especially in Andalucia.

I am not basing my conclusions on the USA, for although I have seen most of it on the TV, and have friends all over, I have never been into your country, there is a Neil Sedaka song that sums up my opinion of your immigration policy...."there was a time when strangers were welcome here"....so my premises are based upon the UK and my experiences there, and my 'pessimism' is less pessimistic than predictive, for I have a belief, based upon extensive study of the UK populace, that the slow easy going Englishman will possibly turn into the aggressive warrior that he has running deep in his veins, if one of the next few governments do not seek to redress the balance in how their people are treated.

And just saying the word 'Englishman' is sufficient for many people in the UK to view me as wrong, for national identity must be stifled in an attempt to remove anything which may be less than inclusive towards the immigrants that have flooded to their shores.


Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds 6 years ago

aquasilver, in my experience bigotry and prejudice do lessen away once people are working together, living in the same neighborhood, going to the same schools. Also, younger people tend to be much less prejudiced than their parents and grandparents. People are taught to be prejudiced and they can also be taught not to be prejudiced. You are unduly pessimistic about this. I would be curious what in your personal experience leads you to the conclusions expressed in your Hub and comments. You live now in a part of Spain where Christians and Muslims lived for several centuries in peace and harmony. My comments with which you disagree are based on my experience in the United States. Have you ever lived in the U.S.? If not what is the basis for your conclusions?


SOBF profile image

SOBF 6 years ago from New York, NY

aguasilver - Well written hub but there is one problem with your entire observation. You are a recipient of AA and the quota's that go along with it. I never understand how white women complain about affirmative action when it addresses them just as much as it addresses minorities. That's like a white welfare recipient complaining about minorities who get welfare.


aguasilver profile image

aguasilver 6 years ago from Malaga, Spain Author

Ralph, my whole point is that you cannot make bigotry and racism change by the law, you can drive it underground and make it fester, but you will not stop it,

People learn that 'they' are not a problem to be feared, when 'they' show attributes that 'we' recognise as normal.

When I can see a Muslim complete with long beard and traditional clothes and immediately think that they are there helping some body who needs help, rather than wondering whether they are strapped up to commit suicide, then 'they' will be acceptable.

Nobody runs away from a Salvation Army officer for fear that they may get hurt, who we are and what we do is how we are seen.


Micky Dee profile image

Micky Dee 6 years ago

Great hub John.


Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds 6 years ago

When I was in college many fraternities had clauses in their bi-laws prohibiting acceptance of members who were either 1/8 Jewish or Black. I'm pretty sure the "clauses" are gone now as the tide changed. Many universities finally got around to prohibiting them.


aguasilver profile image

aguasilver 6 years ago from Malaga, Spain Author

Heard of, but seldom seen them applied to people that folk do not know. I may be wrong, it could be that middle America would welcome a price hike on their gasoline prices in order to help the starving millions, but somehow I doubt it, unless all those 1940's films with Jimmy Steward were real...


Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds 6 years ago

Have you heard of "family values." Maybe they would???


aguasilver profile image

aguasilver 6 years ago from Malaga, Spain Author

Jen, I knew you are Jewish, but chose not to mention it, for it's not something you use, which is why you have seen problems, for you have merged with your society to a sufficient extent that they now don't think of you as a minority needing special treatment, but a 'normal' member who should accept that we 'owe' something for having been born in the Northern Hemisphere.

A fluke of chance I agree, but one which has entitled us to be in the top 5% of mankind in terms of provision and security.

Ralph, I hear and see and to the most part agree with your summations, especially concerning the privileged elite who control we minions.

But as I said above, we just by birth right are better off than 95% of the worlds population.

How do we change that?

...and perhaps more relevant, for you in a country where people complain if gas costs a few cents more....who would want to reduce their living standard sufficiently to assist practically all those who are 'have nots'?


Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds 6 years ago

Here's some perspective on the subject from "This Week" January 22, 2010.

The Myth that College is a Meritocracy by Neal Gabler, Boston Globe

Colleges are widely perceived as racially diverse "meritocracies," said Neal Gabler. this illusion is pure "hogwash." Up to half the places at the premier liberal arts colleges, Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist Daniel Golden has shown, are reserved for alumni legacies and "wealthy white kids." Only 3 percent to 11 percent of those admitted to schools like Harvard, Yale, and Northwestern "come from the lowest economic quartile. The elite schools claim they[re interested in "a diverse student body," but the majority of athletes given scholarships are actually involved in "white" sports such as lacrosse, rugby and crew, and most of the exceptional artists and musicians who gain admittance have benefited from years of private lessons. Even racial "diversity" is largely illusory; about half the blacks admitted to elite universities are immigrants from Africa or the West Indies, instead of African-Americans from poor families. And that's the way elite colleges will continue to operate, "bedcause it benefits the people it is designed to benefit"--those atop the "prevailing social order."


jenblacksheep profile image

jenblacksheep 6 years ago from England

I think I might go back and re-write my hub, make it a little less self-centred perhaps.

I agree (for the most part) with what you have written. Yes, I am a 20 something uni graduate, and as such have not seen much discrimination and racism. I am however, technically Jewish and as such, less standard. I'm not one for religion so I never write 'Jewish' on those forms. I have considered it, and maybe I'll also write that I have family members that died in the Holocaust because the British (and American) governments didn't get in there soon enough and didn't believe that anyone was capable of those atrocities.

It never occurred to me that equality would be such a difficult concept to master. It worries me because, while in the 30's, 40's etc there was actual discrimination against minorities, everyone knew it was wrong. The privileged (upper class white men) wouldn't jeapodise their privileged-ness to give it to someone else. But I'm sure they still knew it. Now, however, they genuinely think they are doing some good!


Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds 6 years ago

I spoke about history to convince you that you went way to far in your opinions about what the government can and should do to prevent discrimination. Moreover, we are not "past that now." There is plenty of employment discrimination and other types of discrimination in the United States. I hope you aren't suggesting that now is the time to repeal legal prohibitions against discrimination based on sex, race, religion, national origin or age? The law does not require any employer to hire unqualified persons. Laws regarding discrimination in public accommodations (hotels, restaurants, etc.) serve a useful purpose as well although this type of discrimination has pretty much disappeared. Recently a Republican Senator, Tom Tancredo, proposed at the recent Tea Party Convention that literacy tests which were used to exclude blacks from voting should be legalized. He got a big round of cheers and applause from the audience.


aguasilver profile image

aguasilver 6 years ago from Malaga, Spain Author

Ralph, we are past that now, you are speaking historically, and we need to remember the history as well, but there comes a point in time when we must come of age and stop.

We have reached that point, and if the authorities continue with 'positive discrimination' and 'diversity training' then the end result will be worse than the first.


Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds 6 years ago

Breakfastpop: "I long for the day when people are hired because they truly are the best suited for the job."

You miss the point. Before civil rights legislation was passed people were not hired because they truly were the best suited for the job. Women were excluded from traditionally male occupations and those that were accepted bumped their head on a low glass ceiling. Blacks were excluded from anything but unskilled jobs and from education leading to higher paying careers. Do you recall that Satchel Paige, arguably the best pitcher in history, never made it to the major leagues until he was over sixty? The major leagues certainly didn't hire the truly best available players until Branch Rickey broke the color line with Jackie Robinson in 1947. The color line in industry didn't begin to be broken until the 1960s.


aguasilver profile image

aguasilver 6 years ago from Malaga, Spain Author

Excellent appraisal of the situation from both sides of the fence Dusty.

I agree that for big companies some 'intervention' may be permissible, but for small ones, leave them alone!

Basically we need to return to the rights of the individual, rather than the rights of the minority.


50 Caliber profile image

50 Caliber 6 years ago from Arizona

I'm aware of the forced standards of hiring employees, and felt the push most in California. Unemployment agency would purposely send what they considered minorities to the door for employment. I was in the position to either hire them or they would receive a second interview with powers over my head and possibly be hired despite my judgment leaving me with an employee that did not fit the need of the vacancy. Then in Order to get rid of them a recommendation for such action would have to be submitted in writing to the higher ups who would make the decision of yes or no and if it was no I then had to submit in writing a request for transfer of the employee to another department that would trade me their surplus unable worker after three such actions they then could be terminated by only upper management decision. A total dog and pony show and a section managers nightmare. We were repairing commercial jets for public transport at the time our major client was Hughes Air West. I have to admit I got my job through Veterans preference back when it meant something. They maintained a preference desk at the Santa Ana Unemployment Agency for veterans. So I nabbed a job in 3 days after Honorable Discharge and 8 years experience of air-frame and power plant repair on helo. and fixed wing aircraft. I was capable and experienced for the job, but I'm sure I was put in front of others trying to get the job, was it fair? I say yes, many say no. I base my yes on the fact that I could and was qualified, certified by FAA guidelines with experience. Now if I was a straight up crew member only I'd say no, unless it was the job for cleaning out the seats and toilets after the airport closed at 9pm. All jobs should include the ability, training and experience, OK not the experience because we all have to start somewhere. If it is a huge company owned by public stock I see some pushing being OK, but a small privately owned business the nosy government needs to leave it alone and let it grow unless they are the main note holder on a small business grant, where the business would not exist with out the government grant. In that case the owner was probably granted the loan with bias toward minority anyway, so they should share in the intervention.


breakfastpop profile image

breakfastpop 6 years ago

Excellent hub. I long for the day when people are hired because they truly are the best suited for the job. We just can't seem to act with common sense and it is appalling. The college I attended opted for open enrollment in the 70's. People of all abilities were admitted and given special help. The school's reputation went down the toilet and no one ever graduated. Finally, they wised up and admitted only those who were qualified.


aguasilver profile image

aguasilver 6 years ago from Malaga, Spain Author

Thanks Jen, I was concerned (after I'd written it) that I had no consulted you first, after all it was your hub that inspired mine!

I'm glad you (tentatively) approve!

John


jenblacksheep profile image

jenblacksheep 6 years ago from England

This is very very well written John, and I'm glad that I wrote something that inspired such an excellent piece of writing (if not a little jealous that you are much more eloquent than I). I don't have time to leave a proper comment now, but I will come back later, re-read and comment properly (and also backlink you in my hub).


aguasilver profile image

aguasilver 6 years ago from Malaga, Spain Author

Hi Ralph, first in for comments, so thank you, even if you do disagree with me.

I do not pertain to be an expert in civil rights and equality, certainly not in the USA, where I realise the 'problem' was much more severe than in England.

When I went to school, we also only had two 'black' children in the school, but this was because in the UK immigration from our former colonies only started in earnest during the late fifties, so it was to be expected that social demographics would take some time to catch up.

I am NOT speaking against equal rights, I am speaking against social engineering, which is the deliberate manipulation of our society to achieve a different result than the one that has existed.

Our society in the UK was and has been manipulated, yours I suspect has and will be massively manipulated, if that is allowed and your people do nothing to stop it.

When Jen, who looks like a standard 20 something uni graduate, cannot find a job because she is too normal, then things have swung too far the other way.

"It also meant too often that the employer hired the best available white male person in most of the highest paying occupations. (And there is still plenty of discrimination in employment.)"

My point also is, we live in a diverse society, so what is wrong with this happening?

I agree that discrimination is uncouth, but I defend the right of the bigot and racist to choose who to engage for their employ, just as I defend your right, as the liberal employer, to refuse bigots and racists engagements.

As long as a humans personal opinions do not get expressed as physical violence against another, for as long as they observe the ballot box as the method of change, I cannot find fault with their right to believe and think and say whatever they wish to.

Unfortunately social engineers are prepared to discriminate against the majority in order to show their acceptance of the minority.

You cannot engineer society and get the right result, you can create a fascist state, you can create a communist state, but freedom and a sound society will only flow from education, not legislation.

You cannot MAKE me like those who I choose not to like.

One of the things that has been clear in England was that we absorb people groups, so we are a nation of Celts, our original inhabitants, who have been minimised by successive waves of immigrants and invaders, the Romans have swept through, but left few human traces, the Angles and Saxons have dominated for 600 years and left much to witness their time in England, my mothers family being one trace, the French Normans swept those aside and stamped their mark, we have absorbed the Huguenots, the Jews,Indians, Pakistanis, and now most anybody who can get to Dover.

The common denominator was always that within three generations they were absorbed, the Jews were still Jews, but for the most part they were indistinguishable from anyone else in society terms, unless they were getting married or buried.

I have no Irish or Danish elements left in my life.

I married a Danish girl and we live in Spain, with our children being absorbed into the Spanish culture, and they think of themselves as Spanish, although it will be two more generations before they will have forgotten to speak English.

I have experience reverse discrimination, or if I wished I could call it that, for Spaniards in general prefer to employ Spaniards unless the job requires a 'foreign' element for their business.

And why not, it's their country and I must allow my self to be adapted to their customs and desires.

I may not like bullfighting, but it's their right to kill bulls and I have no right to complain or try to change their society.

Change should occur by osmosis and consent.


Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds 6 years ago

"This did mean that some discrimination was present in the system, but it also meant that the employer hired the best available person and therefore people strived to be the best they could, to get the job, and to stay employed."

Sorry, that's not true. It also meant too often that the employer hired the best available white male person in most of the highest paying occupations. (And there is still plenty of discrimination in employment.)

Civil rights laws do not provide for quotas. And anti-discrimination legislation brought about a revolution in hiring practices for minorities and women. There is still much more discrimination against minorities than preferences for minorities in this country.

You are a baby boomer. I was involved in hiring baby boomers and helping end discrimination in a major corporation where in 1960 there wasn't a single woman or minority accountant, engineer, skilled tradesman, let alone a manager or corporate officer. Now there are qualified women and minorities in all those jobs thanks to affirmative action requirements for all government contractors.

The picture was the same in public and private colleges and universities at least for minorities. There were exactly two blacks in my university class out of 2,500 students. One was a girl and the other a boy who was a star running back and a top student.

I see you are from Marbella. What a beautiful city. My comments pertain to conditions in the United States, not Spain. I've been to Spain several times. The people there were most gracious and friendly. And the food was delicious. And the cante jondo was spectacular.

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