Face It: There Is No Recovery & America May Have Finally Fallen

On October 16, 1960 Soviet Union Premier Nikita Khrushchev made the famous proclamation that the US would be defeated without a shot being fired. Less than half a century later, he has been proven right! For all intents, America has fallen.
On October 16, 1960 Soviet Union Premier Nikita Khrushchev made the famous proclamation that the US would be defeated without a shot being fired. Less than half a century later, he has been proven right! For all intents, America has fallen.

When the lunatic Marxist dictator of Venezuela, Hugo Chavez states:

Hey, Obama has just nationalized nothing more and nothing less than General Motors. Comrade Obama! Fidel, careful or we are going to end up to his right!

...that is the time that all Americans need to shake themselves out of their torpor and realize that what they knew as their country is being ripped out from under them.

As I write this, the Dow Jones Industrial Average is barely 100 points above dropping into the 7,000s again. What happened to the "quick V-shaped recovery"? Oh, about the same thing that happened to the claims that Lehman Brothers was a good money manager, Google AdSense was going to make every online hawker rich, and that Obama was not a Commie.

In fact, the "quick V-shaped recovery" can be placed right alongside the great lies, such as the one about the check being in the mail, and the one about promising not to... you know... in your mouth.

Are economists insane? Do they just look at a couple of days of prototypical textbook bear market rally and announce that happy days are here again, and we could all go back to merrily investing in Madoff's funds and using our home mortgages as ATMs since the price of our houses was going to go up and up and up and up forever?

Just in case you too have been sucked in by the Dyson "DC17 Animal" Vacuum Cleaner of baseless economic expectation, allow me to splash a big bucket of ice water over your head.

There is no recovery. There is not going to be any recovery for at least two years and maybe not even then. The overall trend for well over a year now has been down down down and there is absolutely no hope in sight. The Dow Jones Industrial Average will in not too many months from now be retesting its 6,500 lows and when it plunges past that floor may the heavens help us all.

On December 23, 2008, WTI crude oil spot price fell to US$30.28 a barrel down from July 11, 2008 when oil prices rose to a new record of $147.27. Merry Christmas! I regret that Santa Claus didn't bring me any petroleum stock in my stocking but today's price in the $50s is likely where petroleum is going to stagnate right through the rest of the year. That's still a healthy profit in the last six months, but still I wouldn't be caught dead buying oil stocks today.

Actually, I wouldn't be caught dead buying any stocks today.

Why?

Dandy Don Meredith was fond of singing "Turn out the lights, the party's over" near the end of Monday Night Football games. Dandy Don is retired now, but I'm sure that he would pipe up with his familiar tune again if he were commenting on the economy. The world's financial structures are going 90 mph down a dead end street and only a major miracle of the kind where the heavens open and a golden figure sets down on Earth is going to stop it.

Our economy is headed in exactly the same direction that every other Socialist - Communist - Marxist state-run economy ever has. Into the dumpster. We have indebted our children and their children to the tune of half a million dollars each to pay for our utter stupidity, and we still don't have a functioning auto sector, financial sector, or health sector.

When Americans were sleeping the Commies took over the country without firing a shot. It was even stated in exactly those terms by Canadian Member of Parliament Pat Martin last month when discussing the massive state takeover of General Motors, which leaves the US government as its majority owner, with Canadian taxpayers having a 12 per cent stake. MP Martin stated in the Canadian Parliament:

When I announce that I am a socialist, I guess it is no surprise because we are all socialists now. We just bought General Motors … The fact is that we now have Marxism realized. We own the means of production and we did not have to fire a single shot. It is really quite phenomenal what went on today.

I hold the total slack-jawed idiocy of the GOP responsible in allowing this unmitigated disaster to befall America. By putting up a completely unelectable ticket of a tired old fart and an ignorant lunatic woman they effectively surrendered the country before the first poll. They couldn't have won if the Democrats had put up Rod and Patti Blagojevich.

America is now a nation of celebrity watchers and Obama shrewdly offered the people exactly what they wanted, a politically correct black man who wasn't "too black a la Jesse Jackson" and who used his gift of sparkling oratory to mesmerize the voters into completely ignoring the fact that his platform was a noxious chimera: nothing more than a Trojan Horse which disgorged its Communist Shock Troops once it was rolled onto the White House lawn.

Obama masterfully mirrored the Chavez election ploy to present himself as a populist and tut-tut any accusations of Marxism until his hand was off the Bible on Inauguration Day and America found itself in every imaginable way under Communist Occupation. Obama's ploy was demonic and brilliant, and it worked better than any wild-eyed science fiction writer could ever have imagined.

Just read some of the comments on my previous Obama Marxism Hubs and you will see some notable Hubbers with a long history of level-headedness go into paroxysms of indignation at the slightest hint of a charge that their darling President is anything but a benevolent centrist. That is the dazzling, hypnotic effect that Obama has had on the American people. He is so damn likeable, human, witty, intellectual, and seemingly in control that he could send half the country's children to a gulag and his approval ratings would still be inconceivably stellar.

There is no doubt whatsoever that Obama's election has sounded the death knell for anything that we have ever known as the United States of America, and whatever surfaces after four, eight years or more (remember... Commie leaders always try to change their Constitutions to stay on for life... watch out for that initiative...) will certainly not be recognizeable as the nation which was the world's bulwark of freedom, liberty, equality and democracy for centuries.

Pray for the soul of America and that the Good Lord will deliver her people from the greatest trial in their history. I do, every single night.

I could overflow HubPages servers just in listing the plethora of purely Marxist policies of the Obama Administration, and just some of them are listed in the links below. And new ones pop up every day... the support of the ousted Marxist leader in Honduras... the tacit approval of the crooked Iranian election results... the provision that health care will be extended universally whether or not the individual pays an insurance premium... need we go on?

If there is anyone out there who has a functioning frontal lobe, and can justify the actions of this Administration as anything but 100% Anti-American in every possible definition of the term I look forward to hearing from you in the Comments section.

Remember... profane and abusive comments will be deleted and I'm a Canadian, so put your "partisan gun" back in the holster, pardner.

Read All About Obama's American Communism

How Obama's Undeniably Marxist Communist Policies Threaten America

Top 20 Events Which Prove Obama Is A Marxist Communist

Top 7 Marxist Communist Policies Being Implemented By Obama Today

Touring The United Socialist States Of America's Capital

How To Nationalize GM, Ripoff Investors, Gift It To The Unions & Deny It's Communism

Why State Capitalism Is A Socialism America Cannot Afford

What If... Obama Is Really Going To Destroy America?

How The Socialist States Of America Fell Off The Wagoner

Why Does Socialism Always Fail?

Give Me $12,667: However, I Won't Tell You How I Spend It - The Fed

What Will The $3.6 Trillion Obama Budget Buy You?

Merry Christmas 2009! The Deficit Now Equals The Cost Of All US Houses!

More by this Author


Comments 107 comments

Rob Jundt profile image

Rob Jundt 7 years ago from Midwest USA

Hal, another blistering, yet oh so true, hub on what is really going on in America. Before the election, I went on the record (not on Hubpages I might add) with many people I know on why I thought Mr. Obama (One Bad A.. Mistake for America) was hell-bent on spreading his not-so-unique brand of socialism upon Americans -- and quite a slathering bunch we all are! Adding to my dilemma was the knick-knack approach of McCain and Palin which literally ushered in this group of socialist disconnects. It drove me crazy to listen to all the politically-drunk responses when even the smallest mention of criticism toward Mr. O (NO) was raised. "He's one of the people," was the rallying cry. "He's out to save us with candy-coated money and jobs galore. Yeah, yeah, ... CRAP!" It made me sick then and I'm still ill today. In my opinion, the downfall of America began many years ago with our infatuation with greed and overall lack of financial responsibility or accountability. But that's another topic itself. The die has been cast for our future generations to wallow in the muck that has been created; all under the smoke-filled lens of "Change has come to America." Well, change has come... and it's not so good LUCY! Keep up the great work, Hal. Your words are always aimed and pointed.


Aya Katz profile image

Aya Katz 7 years ago from The Ozarks

Hal, what's amazing is how well everyone seems to be taking this. Even conservatives seem unphased by it all. How do you explain that?


Hal Licino profile image

Hal Licino 7 years ago from Toronto Author

Rob Jundt and Aya Katz: I'm on a roll! :) I wrote a long reply to your comments, thanking you both for your participation and once I finished it felt that it really does belong in the body of the Hub, so I've just edited it above, three paragraphs from the end.


Hal Licino profile image

Hal Licino 7 years ago from Toronto Author

skye2day, thank you for your comment. I have no doubt that Obama is a believer, but I also have no doubt that his belief is in Allah. I wholeheartedly support Islam and have written several Hubs in its support and promotion. The problem I have is with liars, and when Obama stares at the camera and says "I'm a Christian" I have flashbacks of Clinton staring at the camera and saying "I did not have sexual relations with that woman." Sure, both may be accurate in a very specific split hair connotation, but getting oral sex IS sexual relations, and being brought up a Muslim doesn't really equate to being a Christian. Let's not even deal with the very strict penalties which Islam enforces on believers who leave the faith!

This entire disaster has proceeded too far to be rectified through politics. We do need prayer now, truly more than ever, as the current downward spiral of the nation can only possibly be reversed by God.


Misha profile image

Misha 7 years ago from DC Area

LOL To be completely fair, USSR failed first :) And after some messy transition period Russia now is scoring point after point. If any analogy holds, the sooner you guys let USA fail, the sooner it starts scoring points :)


Hal Licino profile image

Hal Licino 7 years ago from Toronto Author

Well the Ukraine girls really knock me out

They leave the west behind

And Moscow girls make me sing and shout

Georgia's always on my my my my my my my my my mind

Oh, show me round your snow peaked mountain way down south

Take me to your daddy's farm

Let me hear your balalaikas ringing out

Come and keep your comrade warm

I'm back in the USSR

Hey, You don't know how lucky you are, boy

Back in the US... Back in the US... Back in the USSR

---

The problem is that I think that the A in USA is quickly being replaced by SR! :)


pgrundy 7 years ago

We're toast, the only people who don't seem to 'get it' are the media. I think the government even gets it, they just don't ever say it right out.

I wish Americans didn't spend 80% of their time arguing right/left politics though. At this point, it soooooooooo doesn't matter anymore. It's just a way to keep us at each others throats while the uber-rich pick the bones clean.


Misha profile image

Misha 7 years ago from DC Area

Sure it does. It won't live for another 70 years though, I am sure about it :)


bill yon profile image

bill yon 7 years ago from sourcewall

you need to move to America and become a citizen,then run for politics,what are you? a Canadian republican?deregulation,NAFTA,globalisation.stock speculation,and a moronic administration,bush-Cheney,is the reason we are in this mess.lies on matters like Iraq,and just plain incompetence,has left our nation in this situation,one of the main problems is NAFTA,you have millions of Americans searching for jobs,but the jobs are going to the immigrants and flying over seas to china,its called cheap labor.the entire financial system of the world is connected that is another problem.the republican way of thinking is the very reason we are going through this crap right now.they make laws for the elite and they are not in touch with reality.when it comes to the economy it is up to us.the AMERICAN CITIZENS to straighten this crap out.NAFTA is here to stay,and globalisation just began,and these are policies that both parties endorsed,we are not turning into "commies" we are evolving into a class system like England and Europe.that's the truth.no matter what happens we will still be the home of the brave and the land of the free.the American dream will never die.there will always be an American dream.


bill yon profile image

bill yon 7 years ago from sourcewall

you talk about Marxist and communist but you censor your hubs,that'slike the pot calling the kettle black.get real man.you want to state your opinion but you don't want to hear the opinion of some-one who disagrees.what's the use of having these debates if you are only posting comments that you agree with?freedom of speech,man that's what it is.


Hal Licino profile image

Hal Licino 7 years ago from Toronto Author

pgrundy: I completely agree. We're toasted, have had butter and jam slathered on us, and we've already been served on the table at The Internationale House Of Proletarians.

Misha: That is a very sad, but likely true, fact. :(

bill yon: FYI, I lived in the USA for over 20 years. I am a Canadian and North American Patriot. What are you? Obviously misguided since you can't see that your country has been stealthily overtaken by communists and you still spew garbage about it still being the land of the free. The free what? The free health care? The free billions to nationalize corporations? The free trillions to control the financial sector? AMERICA IS UNDER COMMUNIST ADMINISTRATION. Wake up and smell the Commies.

As for censoring my Hubs, what the hell are you talking about? I have the comments capsule set for moderation to keep the idiots who fling around four letter words out of a FAMILY FRIENDLY HUB! DUH!


Tom Cornett profile image

Tom Cornett 7 years ago from Ohio

Hal...you have written here...what most Americans won't admit to themselves. Right and Left is over....both sides have sold us out. We might as well watch cartoons as watch the mainstream media. Here in our small city in Ohio, there are "For Rent" signs everywhere. There are no jobs...unless you are lucky enough to land one at a Japanese owned factory. Maybe we should have just sold the big 3 to them?

I think WalMart might be hiring greeters too? Our utilities have gone up 30%....food prices are rising constantly....our local "Polititians" are considering another tax hike? I have noticed quite a few more stray dogs and cats from people leaving them behind....moving out of state, I would guess?

Most Americans would read your hub and say "He's just crazy...we'll never be like the USSR!" Well...I remember in the 80s, Russian teachers being paid a bottle of Vodka a month. Our teachers will probably get a voucher for wine. Here in the USA, the money is going to run out and most people won't wake up until they find themselves without income.

The future.....Trading a Lexus for a scooter.


Hal Licino profile image

Hal Licino 7 years ago from Toronto Author

Tom Cornett, Thank you for your comment. You are absolutely correct in that Americans are likely to snooze in their apathetic doldrums until one day they wake up and realize that they live under the hammer and sickle. California is already paying citizens with IOUs, which are essentially even worse than the Soviet ruble was. At least with the ruble you could buy a bottle of Vodka. You're wise to trade your Lexus for a scooter now, as when Obamarxism fully takes effect, you'll be 20 years on a waiting list for a two-stroke, stodgy, ill-engineered Sovietscooter hammered out of pot metal that won't even run when you get it.

God save America. If ever there was a time to pray for a miracle, this is it!


Tom Cornett profile image

Tom Cornett 7 years ago from Ohio

Hal....I wonder if the IRS will accept IOUs in place of our taxes? It is time to pray for a miracle.....we had all better pray.


Hal Licino profile image

Hal Licino 7 years ago from Toronto Author

It's funny but The Governator has specifically stated that the IOUs are not legal tender and cannot be passed on. Therefore, all the individuals and companies which have received this worthless paper can use it to line their kitty litter boxes. Prayer is all we have left, thanks to the profound idiocy of the American Democratic voter!


ocbill profile image

ocbill 7 years ago from hopefully somewhere peaceful and nice

Quite a few of your hubs are blatantly against Obama. Since you are in the elephant party you very well know the lesser BUSH started this crap. He has F'd up this country for quite a while.

Good luck with your weekly complaints. It gets old. Move on to something else for a change. marxism, communism, socialism,,,..move on please.


Hal Licino profile image

Hal Licino 7 years ago from Toronto Author

1) Kindly explain to me how a Canadian citizen can be a member of the GOP?

2) I have often stated in my Hubs how Bush was the worst prez in history. However, Obama does not fit in that category as he is not President, but Demolisher of the United States.

3) You are unfortunately demonstrating the same apathy and distraction of the American voter which has placed your country is such overwhelming peril. Oh, yes... so there's a commie in the White House... but what's Lindsay Lohan doing?

God save your nation. Even though you have no one to blame but yourselves for being in this mess.


bill yon profile image

bill yon 7 years ago from sourcewall

fear-mongers,the future is what we make it.if you want to embrace fear then you have already lost.yes we have problems,and it is up to us to fix it.we are the engine that drives America.we need to boycott all companies that are sending jobs over seas,we need to buy American,and American only,it will cost more,but it will all so make our economy stronger,American jobs for American citizens,if the corporations can't understand that,then they don't deserve our money.the destiny of America has always been in the hands of it's citizens,have you forgotten that?we are the dream.the wright brothers invented the airplane because it was their will to do so,not the governments,Tesla created the power grid and changed the world because it was his will to do so,not the governments,ford created the automobile,because it was his will to do so,not the governments,NAFTA and globalisation,is gutting the economy,bush linked retirement benefits and every thing else to the stock market,this has to change,politicians that pass laws to benefit corporations first and the citizens second need to be impeached and banned from office forever.in the bible it says have faith.fear is a sin.do not be afraid of nothing.and do not bow to fear-mongers.fear on a massive scale is shaping the reality and future of this country.and Hal?I apologize for the censorship statement.


Hal Licino profile image

Hal Licino 7 years ago from Toronto Author

bill yon, no prob on the censorship misunderstanding. As for your tenet that there is a way to reverse this collectivization of America, I unfortunately do not share your optimism. The policies which President Obama has implemented and continues to introduce every day are purely Marxist, and there truly is no hope for America. And that is very sad.


Ivan the Terrible profile image

Ivan the Terrible 7 years ago from Madrid

Well, I believe the USA started failing years, even decades ago, but no one person will be able to save it. Obama is trying to be everything to everyone and in the path he is one he will most likely drive the USA into such a deep debt that it will become a beggar nation in a few years. It already owes more money than it seems to be able to pay off.

While I disagree that Obama is a socialist, in the newest sense of that system, he may well be following failed ideas of robber baron capitalism to the lowest form. Didn't Grant give away huge sums of money to robber barons in his day? Government paid huge amounts of money for new capitalist adventures and lost it's butt. They looked the other way when railroads were ripping off millions of dollars and getting away with scandal after scandal. Banks failed every decade or so, money was in short supply, etc. People on the lowest end of the scale starved to death, drank themselves to death, and society, the utopia the founders had envisioned, gace way to the rule of wealthy. No wonder anarchy and communism grew in those years! It was dog-eat-dog and the lowest dogs on the social scale were getting very pissed off.

What we are seeing is not new, but it is much more deeply concerning now than it has been in the past. First of all, Obama is bailing out companies which had been bailed out before and had come to realize that government believed they were "too big to fail", an idea which they still run with. Why did they become too big to fail? Partially because government allowed unfettered robber baron capitalism to muck up the way things worked.

Yet in the USA those with long memories remember that both fascism and Communism vyed for the poor and unemployed to rise up against the "rich" robber barons of the 1920's and before. Unemployment was proportionally higher than it is now, people were starving, and Republican, Conservative experts in the 1930's were saying to do nothing, the market would right itself and we'd all live in la-la-land of wealth and prosperity. My mom & dad lived through that time and weren't fooled by the so-called experts.

there needs to be some balance between these forces and a recognition that it is not always wise to spend, and it is not always wise to borrow, but sometimes it is. Knowing when to move between Conservative and Liberal programs is more of an art than a science, and I have yet to see any one leader in the USA have the sense, stamina and courage to do the right thing at the right time. I give credit that at least Obama is trying, whereas Bush slept and ignored the problem by and large.

But as for the USA? well, sound the bells because the king is dying, will soon be dead, so long live whoever the next king shall be.


Hal Licino profile image

Hal Licino 7 years ago from Toronto Author

You're certainly entitled to your opinion and to be thanked for your comment. I am glad to see that you agree with me on the falling of America. I'm not clear as to the meaning of your last paragraph however. Are you insinuating that Obama is dying or am I completely misunderstanding you?


bill yon profile image

bill yon 7 years ago from sourcewall

He's saying that America is dying,and will soon be dead.NEVER.We are the phoenix.from death we will be reborn stonger.the american dream will never die.


Hal Licino profile image

Hal Licino 7 years ago from Toronto Author

America is not dead and it's not going to die. What it STOOD for has been killed by the Obama Administration. And Americans are too drunk with their own problems and delusions to even realize it.


Ivan the Terrible profile image

Ivan the Terrible 7 years ago from Madrid

The king is America, or at least for the moment it is. If America is to be great then it must act great, and that won't happen while you have petty candidates voted in by people who act in their own party's best interest instead of the nation's best interest.

Conservatives and Liberals alike (since Americans seem to want to divide their nation into these two warring camps) have to give up their staunch agendas from time to time in favor of what is best for the nation. There is a time for tight control over the markets and a time for letting the market free. One idea or the other never works for every circumstance or every time.

I get tired of hearing Conservatives screaming for one system of economics 100 % of the time and Liberals screaming for an opposite 100% of the time. I am not a Christian but there is wisdom in the biblical words there is a time and season for everything, a time for war and a time for peace, etc. It's not an exact quote but free market is not a panacea, and neither is tight government control. there is a time for tightening controls and a time for loosening them. Both sides should become aware of that and practice it to make the nation a better place.

What happens in America does indeed affect the rest of the world, and that is why so many nations are trying to surpass America these days. whether they do so or not depends a lot of whether or not America survives its own problems.

I do not strictly blame Obama, nor do I strictly blame Bush. It has been going on for decades now, this constant ideological cheapening of America from within. it has basically sold itself down the river more than once and pretty soon it will burn out as a nation. Mostl likely it will fail from within. That is how most great powers eventually die.

Bil Yon, The American Dream, as you put it, is not exclusive to America. If it dies in that land it may be reborn elsewhere, but define the American Dream and tell me how America is helping that dream become a reality? I really would like to know. Is it fair for example that Americans use, per capita, larger amounts of the world's resources than any other nation on Earth? that sounds more like American Greed to me. And yet you need that level of consumption just to keep your economy going.


Hal Licino profile image

Hal Licino 7 years ago from Toronto Author

Ivan, so you're basically agreeing with the school of eschatology which has long insisted that Babylon in the Book of Revelation is indeed the USA?


Hxprof 7 years ago from Clearwater, Florida

Hal, this is a good assessment of what is happening to America. I disagree with only one thing-yes, America will indeed fall Hal. When America is no longer what it was it is no longer strong. The US has enemies who've been blazing at the bit for the chance to take out the top dog and dominate the world in a more comprehensive way than America has. The dominant idea that it can't happen to America is flat out wrong-it can, and I believe it will.


Mason 7 years ago

who is John Galt?


Hal Licino profile image

Hal Licino 7 years ago from Toronto Author

Hxprof: Thanks. I do believe, however, that the "US enemy" which wants to be top dog already has won. Through an unprincipled and myopic sequence of irrational appeasement dating back to the Nixon Administration, China is now the Alpha Male. America dominates nothing at all now that its traditional competitiveness has been destroyed. The Pax Sinica is going to be a very sad time for America, and it has already begun.

Mason: Ayn think you're right! :)


Hxprof 7 years ago from Clearwater, Florida

I agree Hal, China is economically speaking 'top dog', indeed the aspiring alpha male. Aspiring still because American military strength, though waning, is still predominant. The only way that China and its ally Russia can completely upend the American status quo is too squash it militarily. America won't relinquish its military dominance without a fight; they plan on giving it to us.


Hal Licino profile image

Hal Licino 7 years ago from Toronto Author

Hxprof, of course America has unquestioned military superiority, but I can see no scenario short of a Chinese invasion of Alaska or Hawaii that would make the USA use that power against a major power. Since WWII, American military power has been used exclusively in brushfire situations against tiny militaries and we even lost one (Vietnam)! Since it seems that there is no way that the American public will allow the use of the nuclear option (again, unless invaded) what would the US Army do against China? Invade China? 1.4 billion people vs. a million soldiers (if we could even muster that many)? The 1400 to 1 odds don't look good on that one.

China has the USA over a barrel and it can now dictate terms in any way it prefers. It's already spearheading the movement to remove the US Dollar from international affairs, and it is increasing its share of investment in US to continue solidifying its hold on the American economy.

They did win without firing a shot. Damn it. Nikita was absolutely right. :(


Ivan the Terrible profile image

Ivan the Terrible 7 years ago from Madrid

Sorry, Hal, I don't believe in the so-called book or revelations. Just a bunch of gibberish to me. Besides, most of the preachers I've had the ill fortune to hear have told us that Rome, or Europe, or Russia is the Babylon. Didn't some TV evangelist get into trouble for insisting that the Catholic Church is the evil future, the great whore, etc? That didn't go over well here in Spain, although I could care less what those idiots proclaim. they're all full of hatred and nothing they say makes any sense to a thinking person.

Rather, I believe that no nation lasts forever and most empires, no matter their economic system, fall from internal weakness. The USA has had it way too easy as of late and now they are discovering that no nation can consume a huge chunk of the world's diminishing resources and survive. It takes more energy & money to preserve the US than it produces, and so it must fail. If not today, then soon.

BTW the US is no longer the leading military power in every sphere of military presense. Maybe in nukes, but not in troops. Many nations have a larger military than the US. I would concede that most of the equipment in their US arsenal is potent, but their military is stretched thin between Iraq and Afghanistan.

Internally, the erosion began long before Obama, although he may be just the latest image of that erosion. Nixon and before him Johnston started to use the power of the presidency as if it were a kingship. Nixon further eroded trust through Watergate and other foul play. Reagan thought he won the cold war and then went home witout finishing the job. Bush Sr. allowed Saddam Hussein to attack Kuwait through his own ignorance and ineptitude, and Clinton again eroded the trust of the office. He also gave in to far-Right wing Conservatives too many times.

Congress mentally went off to some remote planet during the 90's under Newt Gingrich, and then came Bush Jr. and Cheney, who, (Cheney) in my opinion, personally did more to ruin the US government than anyone in this century or the last. Cheney should be hauled before a court immediately and be made to answer for what are, in my opinion, his overtly and covertly illegal acts. He allegedly condoned torture and ignored the US Constitution and the rule of law. He is, in my opinion, a criminal no better than the beasts he proports to be fighting.

The USA has a responsibility to act responsibly, and so far it has failed miserably. I see that as a main cause leading to the imminent fall of that nation, and personally I am sorry about that, because when I was a US citizen I was proud of that, but I have left to live elsewhere and no longer swear allegience to that nation. Yet I and everyone in the world feels the effect when the US acts irresponsibly, as it has economically so many times in the past decades. This economic crisis is not the first scandal in recent history, but it has deeply hurt the rest of the world. I hope the criminals who caused it by their greed are happy because in the real world people are starving and dying because of their greed for money and power.

Obama at least recognized that, while Bush & especially Cheney just thought the rest of us were whining.

For me it's not just Conservatism that has failed, but Liberalism as well. There is a time when it is wise t spend money and a time when it is wise to save it. Every family knows that, why can't a government as large and apparently sophisticalted as the US realize that?

You titled this hub in a fashion that states that you believe the USA may have already fallen. Even if the shell of the nation persists, the core of it is rotten to the very essense of its being, and nothing short of a new revolution, as Thomas Jefferson called for every generation or so, can repair the damage. But Americans are too busy believing they are the greatest and always will be, simply by luck of birth. That is a notion as false as any. In order to be great a nation must truly recreate itself for betterment, but the citizens there believe it is their birthright to be great, end of story. I'm afraid they are in for a rude awakening very soon.


Hal Licino profile image

Hal Licino 7 years ago from Toronto Author

As for the eschatological reference, it just struck me that all the time that American Christian Fundamentalists have been claiming that they live in the nation which has to stand up against Revelation's Babylon, there seem to be an inordinate number of recent developments which seem to dovetail into that prophecy, but with America as the Babylon nation. Just strange, I guess! :)

I could not agree more with your last paragraph if I'd written it myself. A Jeffersonian LEGAL NON-VIOLENT revolution is most definitely called for at this time, and the "rude awakening" of the American people may have already begun.

I will continue to pray for America.


cindyvine profile image

cindyvine 7 years ago from Kyiv, Ukraine

History shows that all civilisations end eventually


Hal Licino profile image

Hal Licino 7 years ago from Toronto Author

I agree. The problem is that it was not fun to be a Roman citizen when the Barbarians were at the gates, and it's definitely not going to be a hoot to be an American in the next few years. I truly and deeply regret what Americans are going to go through and I can only hope and pray that some miracle will occur to save them.


cindyvine profile image

cindyvine 7 years ago from Kyiv, Ukraine

Well, some say China is on the rise again as the next big civilisation. I think, it'll come from Africa once they get the starving people and health issues sorted, as africa has all the resources. It'll work out cheaper to do the manufacturing where you get the resources. It always amazed me, how South Africa's steel was shipped to Japan to make car parts, then the car parts were shipped back to South Africa to be assembled and sold to all the African countries.


Am I dead, yet? 7 years ago

This has been a long time coming. The Obama administration is reacting you decades of abuse, misrepresentations, and falsities of the previous Presidents. The difference with Obama; 'you know' what is going on. The administration puts it out there. How could America remain the 'top country' when it adamantly screwed it's own citizens? All great nations fall. It is an arrogant stance, that some Americans have, to think that the country is too big to fall. This arrogance is what lead America to the position it is in today. Is this a well deserved wake up call to a country that 'cheated' its way through the markets (establishing a credit program, hedge funds, etc) and allowing very devious persons to make the decisions on how the country was going to run for the very wealthy 5%? Yes, America needed to made aware of all the circumstances and atrocities it caused everyone around the globe. Should America fail, yes. Has every nation failed at one time or another, yes. No longer are Americans turning a blind eye to what is going on in the government, bless the more educated generation that are encouraged to ask questions...enlightenment...is a good thing. I do have to admit, I enjoyed reading your hub, even if you missed some key information, it was definitely an arousing read.

@Ivan the Terrible you are on point my man, on point.


Jerilee Wei profile image

Jerilee Wei 7 years ago from United States

At the heart of my being I've always been an optimist, but I'm also grounded in reality. We've been fed a bunch of lies about our country for so long that many, perhaps most still believe that we are what we once were or could have been and that it is possible to rise again without any major upheaval. The party is over, we sold ourselves out, and it's going to be one hell of a hangover. Many are not going to survive this, and most apt to wish they hadn't. Anyone without a plan B or C is only deluding themselves.


Hal Licino profile image

Hal Licino 7 years ago from Toronto Author

cindyvine: Just a couple of comments up I stated that "China has the USA over a barrel and it can now dictate terms in any way it prefers. It's already spearheading the movement to remove the US Dollar from international affairs, and it is increasing its share of investment in US to continue solidifying its hold on the American economy." I truly believe that to be the case. As for Africa, I have ZERO hopes for that entire continent to progress in any way, shape or form. Instead, I believe that it will continue its descent into tribal anarchy for the foreseeable future.

Am I dead, yet?: Thank you for your comments, but I could not disagree more that "with Obama; 'you know' what is going on." Obama has pulled the greatest scam in American politics by misrepresenting himself as a centrist when he is a communist (let's not even start on the misrepresenting himself as a Christian when he is a Muslim). I also disagree with the statement that Americans are waking up now. I believe they are slumbering more each day or they would never have let Obama get away with a Communist putsch right under their noses.

Jerilee Wei: You're absolutely right when you state: "The party is over, we sold ourselves out, and it's going to be one hell of a hangover." It's gonna be ugly, no way to avoid it. :(


Am I dead, yet? 7 years ago

Hal, my quotation of 'you know' was a sarcastic quote. The truth is no one really knows what is going on. The scam, allegedly, that Obama is pulling is the same scams that got America where it is now in the first place.

Obama, is not a Muslim, he has a Muslim name, given to him by his Muslim father. And if Obama was ever a Muslim, so what. His religious preference has nothing to do with a country's functionality. I do agree with your @cindyvine comment. China is tactic in its slow take over. NAFTA was the beginning of the end, for America. That was when the hemmerging began, well, in my opinion.

Thanks for the response, I do enjoy reading your point of view. Very intriguing.


Mighty Mom profile image

Mighty Mom 7 years ago from Where Left is Right, CA

Hi Hal, A most engaging read, as always. Sobering thoughts (not intended as a play on Jerilee's party/hangover comment, but not that I wrote that, it works).

We clearly cannot put the entire blame for our current situation on a president who's been in office less than 6 months. He didn't waltz in and say, "I know what will really get everyone's attention! I'll take over GM!!!" No. That draconian measure was long in the making.

Unfortunately, Americans have been living like ostriches with our heads in the sand for too long. We have become fat, stupid and jingoistic. Instead of paying attention the past 8 years we all (well, I didn't but many did) drove around in our government-sanctioned SUVs and Hummers displaying 'Support our Troops' stickers. We gobbled up mortgages that we surely knew on some level HAD to be too good to be true. Yep, they were. We allowed our publicly traded companies to answer to stockholders who cared nothing for Americans as workers and shipped jobs overseas where the labor is cheaper.

Is it the Peter Principle that goes "Everything rises to the level of its own incompetence"? I believe that is what happened during the Bush/Cheney years, but that was just the crescendo. It had been building here as we shifted our economic base from solid to ephermeral (remember the dot com boom then bust?).

I don't see Obama as inherently communist. I see him as running for and winning a position that requires him to take control of a giant, rudderless ship and turn it around. The closest parallel in US history is the 1930s. I don't hear anyone labeling FDR a "communist" and yet his solution to the massive unemployment was to institute government programs that put people to work.

Would I like to believe our free market economy can rise again and return a state of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness (not to mention fair wage jobs with healthcare benefits) to Americans? You betcha!! (to quote my "favorite" Alaskan). Do I realistically see this happening? I wish I could say yes.


gamergirl profile image

gamergirl 7 years ago from Antioch, TN

Hal,

Can Gamergent and I come crash at your place when things here start to get really ugly? I have a feeling we'd have some great coffee time chats.


Hal Licino profile image

Hal Licino 7 years ago from Toronto Author

Am I dead, yet?: Sorry for missing the sarcasm. :) I appreciate your comments, but I still disagree with the point that "Obama is pulling is the same scams that got America where it is now in the first place." The total ineptitude of GW Bush was profoundly absurd and even criminal. However, what Obama is doing is totally anti-American as it violates every principle that the nation was founded upon. I also maintain the opinion that he is a Muslim and although I couldn't care less if he were Zoroastrian, the fact that he LIES about it is deeply disturbing. Plus, he is technically an apostate thus is not to be tolerated by the Muslim community at large. Should the TRUTH come out about his religion, it would effectively end relations with the Islamic world until he was removed (which can't happen a moment too soon... legally and ethically and non-violently of course.)

Mighty Mom: Thanks for the comment. As I just stated in the above comment, GW Bush was a disaster for the nation. But at no time in his or Cheney's wildest dreams would they ever dare to demolish the nation from within as Obama is doing in his first short half year. I continue to maintain that Obama's policies are strictly Marxist, are orders of magnitude above FDR's actions, and thus completely unconstitutional and anti-American. Unfortunately, THERE IS NO MORE FREE MARKET ECONOMY IN AMERICA. The Treasury's new stranglehold on the financial institutions has placed control of the nation's business squarely in the hands of the Executive Branch, and that is Marxism 101.

gamergirl: You're welcome anytime. I have to warn you though. Misha and I have been making parallel plans to head for the hills as soon as a certain tipping point is reached, so you might have a bit of a hard time finding me. The directions to my mountain cabin stocked with enough food, water and ammo to keep me until the next century are: "Turn left off the paved road, keep going until the road becomes a trail, keep going some more until you need a machete to get through the underbrush, keep going some more until you're up to your waist in mud, keep going some more..." :)


bill yon profile image

bill yon 7 years ago from sourcewall

Ivan the terrible,the dream is different for every American,It's the divorced house wife who set out to start a business and became the second richest woman in the world(Martha Stewart)it's the little African American girl who started with nothing,sleeping in cars and struggling to get by as she chased her dreams of being a newscaster becoming the richest woman in the world(Oprah Winfrey)it's the computer nerd who realized that his college professor's could teach him nothing to help him be what he was trying to be so he dropped out of college and became the richest man in the world(bill gates)It's the drug addict who was addicted to crack cocaine who had a dream of one day making it big in holly-wood and at the age of 44 he finally got his big break(Samuel Jackson)its the Indian immigrant who came to America with seven hundred dollars to his name with a dream of building a empire(AS SEEN ON TV)it's the little boy in art class who was told by his art teachers that animals and trees don't talk and he would never accomplish anything if he kept going in that direction(WALT DISNEY)its the slow kid who was called borderline retarded by his teachers and treated like a dunce only to go and discover how to split the atom and bring the theory of relativityto the world E=MC(ALBERT EINSTEIN) and it is me who only recently(because of this recession)discovered gifts and abilities with in me that will free me from this economic crisis that we are all going through.I am the AMERICAN DREAM.and there are millions more just like me that will be emerging out this mess that'sgoing bring new life to America.And on another note we are not Babylon.the old roman empire is the new Babylon today Rome is called the EUROPEAN UNION.America is not even in the Bible.the anti-christ is coming out of the European union,and Jesus is coming out of the middle east(ISREAL)so please don't label us Babylon,or the Great Satan until you have read the bible and have your facts straight!!!!


Hal Licino profile image

Hal Licino 7 years ago from Toronto Author

bill yon: All your examples are from previous decades when America DID have free enterprise and rewarded entrepreneurialism. How many successful IPOs have there been under the Obama Administration?

ZERO!

Those days are gone, dude. Take a deep breath and you'll smell the invigorating aroma of coffee... as well as the stench of Communism.

Don't lecture me on eschatology, dude. I studied it extensively at Drew University. I've forgotten more about the Book of Revelation than you'll ever learn. If you interpret the CURRENT developments in America you will see some rather staggering parallels.


Paraglider profile image

Paraglider 7 years ago from Kyle, Scotland

Hal - exactly what PGrundy said:

{{I wish Americans didn't spend 80% of their time arguing right/left politics though. At this point, it soooooooooo doesn't matter anymore. It's just a way to keep us at each others throats while the uber-rich pick the bones clean.}}

It really isn't a left/right issue. The super-rich are not getting poorer. The rest of us are, whichever way we vote, and whichever country we vote in. And they want us to fight each other, just like they want us to watch reality TV and buy celebrity magazines. Any distraction is a good distraction, in their eyes.


Hal Licino profile image

Hal Licino 7 years ago from Toronto Author

Paraglider, I understand your comment and appreciate it. However, the vast majority of the "super-rich" have had their net worths cut in half in the past few months, and some have been decimated. Name any billionaire such as Buffet, Gates, Slim, Ellison, etc. and it's almost unanimously true that they have been slammed. Of the Top 30 Billionaires, only one, (Bloomberg) has maintained his net worth in the past year. Now I am not about to cry over the fact that Bill Gates can only afford to buy a small country instead of a large one, but the American Way has always worked in that the major capitalists make investments to create jobs and general wealth. When this top down economic prosperity system is devastated by a Marxist Administration, we see the accelerating impoverishment of the nation which we are currently witnessing. Therefore, it IS an ideological issue, and one that can only be resolved through a legal, ethical, and of course strictly non-violent impeachment or other form of coup d'etat.


kasanova 7 years ago

i believe there are still few decades left for america to rule, before falling down...


Hal Licino profile image

Hal Licino 7 years ago from Toronto Author

A few years. At best. I truly believe that America as the nation we have traditionally known cannot survive two Obama terms.


Puffar 7 years ago

Hal: I am not as smart as you and many of those who have commented, and so want your help. Do you have any suggestions for fixing this? Perhaps you can put as much energy into what might be a solution... provide 10 or 15 steps toward recovering or saving what is left?

Thank you in advance-


Hal Licino profile image

Hal Licino 7 years ago from Toronto Author

I do not pretend to be any smarter than anyone else. The steps are very simple. There is a constitutional mechanism for the impeachment of a President. That mechanism must be put into action immediately by popular demand of the citizens of the USA.

There is no other way other than to resort to a (legal, ethical, non-violent) coup d'etat which can restore the incalculable damage that the Obama Administration is causing to the very essence of the nation each and every day.


Kanga Roo 7 years ago

Hal,

anyone can critisize Obama for what he has done to date, and he has done a lot - but a real man will spell out in detail what the alternative is, what would you have done over the same period if you had the power?

Would you have let the big banks just go bankrupt, AIG, etc. Doing nothing would have seen a domino effect as one big bankrupcy would have snowballed into thousands of linked parties.

Would you have let the people with money in those banks walk away with nothing?

Would you have let the US auto industry just shut up shop and sell the plants for scrap metal?

If you can't put up a detailed alternative plan, then your whining is just like pissing in your pants - it may give you a warm feeling, but it does nothing for me. I want to hear you ideas for fixing the crisis.


Hal Licino profile image

Hal Licino 7 years ago from Toronto Author

ABSOLUTELY.

The plan is simple:

Free enterprise means that you stand or fall on the virtues of failures of your business decisions. Although the government is constitutionally permitted to enact tax breaks, tariffs, and other domestic incentives it is not constitutionally permitted to nationalize entire sectors of the economy.

How stupid is anyone who thinks that if GM or Chrysler disappeared into thin air their market segment would go with them? So you can't buy a Chev or a Dodge, you buy a Ford or a Toyota (tariff protected to be built in the USA). So the worker goes from the GM factory to Toyota. Big deal!

The alternative is what? TO HAVE THE TAXPAYER FUND TRILLIONS OF DOLLARS TO COMPENSATE FOR CEO STUPIDITY? WHERE ARE THESE TRILLIONS COMING FROM? YOUR POCKET!

Americans are now endebted to the tune of $15 trillion. That's well over $100,000 per taxpayer. I don't know about you but I don't have that much in my bank account to just give away because a few CEOs got greedy and stupid.

The financial and industrial shakeout that would have occurred under full free enterprise rules would have impacted the economy ONLY A MERE FRACTION as much as the train wreck that the Obama Administration has created for the nation.

Obama has demolished the economic fabric of the USA. Period.

That is the alternative plan. Impeach Obama, undo all of his misbegotten Marxist policies, and restore the nation to the free enterprise banner it has waved since 1776.

If you don't like it, then you're just as much of a fool as the other blind "Obama is a good centrist President" evangelists.


bill yon profile image

bill yon 7 years ago from sourcewall

Oh how quickly you forget,republicans have deregulated,destroyed rules that was put in place during the great depression, to keep the economy stable.the one thing that comes with the job of being president is blame, the sins of the past will be yours even if its only a few months in.Doing something about the problem is better than doing nothing.and just like a true republican Hal, you're talking loud but you ain't saying nothing.quick to attack and destroy solutions that are being provided by the democrats solely because they are providing answers,when the republicans have already started their campaign for 2012 the republicans are not concerned with the problems that we face,they only want to put a spin on ever solution provided while offering no solutions of their on,playing games and using multi-media to sway public opinion their way.President Obama has repaired relationships that was destroyed up under Bush and has Improved America's standing in the world community.He has even brokered a deal with Russia on arms reduction,finally receiving help from Pakistan in the war on terror President Obama has accomplished more in his first few months than Bush-Cheney did in Eight years.How can you speak when you have no ideas on how to improve the economic crisis?Here are some of mine.Break down these institutions that are supposed to be to big to fail.Pull the retirement plans of all Americans out of the stock market.get rid of NAFTA and Globalisation,keeping American jobs in America.enforce the immigration laws,and finally disconnect our financial system from this one world financial structure that has emerged,take care of America first,these things will improve our economy and make America stronger.


Hal Licino profile image

Hal Licino 7 years ago from Toronto Author

Dude, how many times do I have to repeat:

CANADIANS CANNOT BE REPUBLICANS OR DEMOCRATS!

DUH!

I've just outlined all the answers anyone needs to fix the problem in these comments. You can natter about whatever you want, but the bottom line is still that the solutions I have discussed are the ONLY WAY TO SAVE AMERICA.

That's it. End of debate.

If you want to keep going on about how I'm wrong without accurately and factually disputing my points, you're just wasting my time and the time of my readers.


Kanga Roo 7 years ago

In the last Great Depression, the government let free enterprise rip and sat on its hands, and we know how that turned out. Thousands of banks did fail.

The trouble with your idea is we cant just try it and see what happens, and if it turns into a new Great Depression, just turn the time machine back and try something else - you only get one shot at testing a new parachute when jumping out of a plane :)


Hal Licino profile image

Hal Licino 7 years ago from Toronto Author

There is absolutely no rational comparison to the technologically driven economy of 2009 to the agrarian and industrial economy of 1929. And if you think the Great Depression was bad, wait until you see how the Obama Depression shakes out.

So what you're saying is that we CAN'T KEEP GOING WITH THE FUNDAMENTALS WHICH HAVE KEPT AMERICA GREAT FROM 1776 to 2009, BUT WE CAN "TRY" MARXISM? We know how well THAT turned out for EACH AND EVERY NATION THAT EVER ADOPTED IT!

Sheesh...


Ivan the Terrible profile image

Ivan the Terrible 7 years ago from Madrid

But Canadians can be Conservative or LIberal or Independent or whatever, and that is the crux of the argument about who, if anyone, is best fit to lead. I really believe that at certain times we as human beings need a more Liberal approach, and at times it is best and most prodent to be more Conservative.

It is the agendas that bother me, and all nations with free elections and political parties have to face these down. Please tell me if Canada has a group of voters who want Christian values as the core of any government. In the US they do, and even in Spain we have Christian political groups that want the Church to be the center of every decision. Thankfully, here they fail to get enough support to even get a place on the ballot.

As for the premise of the hub I still say it is that there is no recovery and therefore America may have already fallen. You have explained in the sense you think America has fallen, as a society, not as a national entity. However, France continued to exist as a nation after Louis XVI lost his head, but France was not the same France as before. And after Napoleon ditched the scene France continued, but not as the France that preceded it.

A national unit may remain but the nation itself changes. American had become a nation of rulers who considered themselves above the law for 8 yerars of CLinton and 8 more years of BUsh. Entitlement sentiment in government was powerful and ignored the basic rule and equity of the law. O.J. got off, Kobe Bryant got off, others with wealth and power got off, Clinton evaded morals, Bush evaded law, Cheney just put himself above or outside of the law, or at least tried to.

America is a mess, and it is still a nation divided into many cultural groups that largely ignore each other. there is no compromising among the various agendas the major parties want to enact, and there is no spirit of nation over individual in any of the fringe extreme groups. I am amazed that far-Right evangelical groups are in concert with the same Catholic Church they have been calling "The Great Whore of Babylon" for so long. I am also trying to reconcile how far-Left groups do not realize that they need the Middle Independents in order to gain and hold political power.

If America emerges stronger form the fray then the world will be better off for it. If America crumbles then some other power will take its place and the nations of the world will turn from looking to America for leadership to looking elsewhere, and things will go on, just differently than before. As I said above, France the physical nation continued through revolutions and losses, but France the entity changed radically. America is poised to do the same.

Great hub, Hal, that has generated a lot of excellenty comment.


Misha profile image

Misha 7 years ago from DC Area

LOL Hal, you have amazing stamina for answering comments. :)


Hal Licino profile image

Hal Licino 7 years ago from Toronto Author

Ivan The Terrible: Thank you for the compliments!

I'm not a conservative. I'm a right wing hawk that makes Jesse Helms and John Wayne pop their heads out of their graves to tell me to chill out. There was a Canadian "fundamentalist" party called Reform, but they unfortunately got sucked into the Conservative Party years ago.

Your French example does not take into account the Soviet Union, which was a country-conglomerate which stultified its people, devastated any semblance of its economy, and generally wasted entire generations to the profoundly evil lack of productivity and pointless raison d'etre of Marxism.

I fear that the American public is simply not equipped by history to become also-rans. The level of economic destruction wreaked by this White House will handicap economic progress for decades and I do fear that sometime in the future, something horrible will happen to America.

After all, was not the Weimar Republic's economic disaster the precursor and facilitator of Hitler's rise to power?

We all saw how much fun that was! NOT! :(

Misha: I feel very strongly about many of the topics of my Hubs so I feel it is important to participate in the comments to support those who support me. It drives me around the bend when commenters state opinions that have no basis in fact, so I love to set them straight.

After all, HubPages is the most fun you can have with your clothes on! :)


Misha profile image

Misha 7 years ago from DC Area

LOL agree to that. Why did Kika immediately cam to mind when I read about cloths though? Mistery ;)


Hal Licino profile image

Hal Licino 7 years ago from Toronto Author

Kika... Ah... Kika... Last I heard she was heading off towards the sea with a young, studly sailor on her arm. Too bad she didn't prefer old, fat, bespectacled, balding, flatfooted, perverted, diseased old men! I could have suggested one! :)


Vasa 7 years ago

I absolutely agree with you! Obama is seducing everyone just like in the old days, remember how Hitler, Stalin, Mao and so many others ascended into their respective supreme offices? They were absolutely adored by the majority of the public, just like everyone loves Obama! But then, after about 4-5 years, each of those dictators would totally hijack the power and "remake" their country, how Obama said in his inaugration speech! Obama wont even take 4 years to totally screw up America. Wake up Americans!!!


Hal Licino profile image

Hal Licino 7 years ago from Toronto Author

Vasa, you are absolutely correct. Obama has mirrored the long established pattern of seizing power to establish tyranny, especially as updated and perfected by that lunatic (and his friend) Hugo Chavez. Is there ANYTHING we and like minded Hubbers can do to help wake up Americans to this clear and present danger?


Wingrider profile image

Wingrider 7 years ago from South Carolina

It would seem that most Americans aren't willing to accept the fact that there already is a depression. Propping up the economy with fake money from a fake govenment doesn't make it any less real. we don't like to admit failure, but it is on us. Now it's time to take our country back from the communists and start rebuilding. The only dissagreement I have with your article is that it started long before Obama. He's just another puppet, like most of our other leaders before him


Hal Licino profile image

Hal Licino 7 years ago from Toronto Author

Sure, the seeds of this disaster were sown on Bozo Bush's watch but I could not disagree more on the fact that Obama is a puppet. He is an extremely shrewd Marxist who has implemented classic textbook communist policies in order to get to be the head of state and is now ruining the nation with his socialist nightmare.


bill yon profile image

bill yon 7 years ago from sourcewall

So what you're saying is Obama should be impeached,and America is going to fall because Obama is the president,never mind the total lack of leadership the lies and the games that the republicans have played over the last nineteen years?but America is going to crumble and fall to its knees and keel over and Die because Obama is the president,Obama the big bad Muslim,anti-christ,the beast,Nazi,commie,Marxist,Obama. come on people take a deep breathe and think before you speak.


James Reno 7 years ago

Americans have got to get leaner and more focused. We must start manufacturing and exporting, and limiting our government. We can do it. We also must get fit. Take control of our own health!

James Reno (editor)

Raw-Food-Repair.com


RockinB 7 years ago

The only problem we have is that we now produce nothing but worthless paper with ink. This ink could be on the paper in your wallet or the paper from your monthly savings & investment statements. In the long run you cannot eat either of these items. The only true sustainable economic model based on the real free market is the one that has lasted thousands of years and will last for another thousand. Unfortunately, this model has been destroyed in America and Obama is finishing it off for the money printers. A self-sufficient family oriented lifestyle based on producing most of the things your family eat’s, selling or trading the excess to buy the things you cannot produce, and producing those things that others want to buy. A $20 gold piece would buy a cow in 1890, and it will still buy a cow in 2009. What will that $20 dollar bill buy you today? This country has slowly abandoned the family structure in the meaningless pursuit of an unobtainable utopia always just out of reach until that next gadget is bought with debt, then we’ll be complete. I see a mass of wasted lives, time, labor, and for what? A big house with a yard too small to raise even a chicken that would give your family an egg everyday. The government promotes this lifestyle so that alone should wake people up that it will not work. Unfettered government is a growing monster that cannot be satiated and needs increasing tax inputs that result in slavery. It will stop at nothing. The sheeple are very happy when the value of there homes go straight through the roof and cannot correlate this new value with the increased property taxes required to maintain possession. The money printers have been running the world for centuries and until they are destroyed with a precious metal currency that cannot be manipulated you and your children will be slaves to debt for eternity. Fiat currency exists for many reasons. Government theft, redistribution, war, wealth destruction and keeping the masses chained in slavery by debt to a piece of paper that continues to lose wealth to whoever holds it.

Good luck out there and if you come across a $20 gold piece I’ll trade you a nice 1000 pound Black Angus cow for it.


RockinB 7 years ago

Each of us has a natural right--from God--to defend his person, his liberty, and his property. These are the three basic requirements of life, and the preservation of any one of them is completely dependent upon the preservation of the other two. For what are our faculties but the extension of our individuality? And what is property but an extension of our faculties?

If every person has the right to defend -- even by force -- his person, his liberty, and his property, then it follows that a group of men have the right to organize and support a common force to protect these rights constantly. Thus the principle of collective right -- its reason for existing, its lawfulness -- is based on individual right. And the common force that protects this collective right cannot logically have any other purpose or any other mission than that for which it acts as a substitute. Thus, since an individual cannot lawfully use force against the person, liberty, or property of another individual, then the common force -- for the same reason -- cannot lawfully be used to destroy the person, liberty, or property of individuals or groups.

Such a perversion of force would be, in both cases, contrary to our premise. Force has been given to us to defend our own individual rights. Who will dare to say that force has been given to us to destroy the equal rights of our brothers? Since no individual acting separately can lawfully use force to destroy the rights of others, does it not logically follow that the same principle also applies to the common force that is nothing more than the organized combination of the individual forces?

If this is true, then nothing can be more evident than this: The law is the organization of the natural right of lawful defense. It is the substitution of a common force for individual forces. And this common force is to do only what the individual forces have a natural and lawful right to do: to protect persons, liberties, and properties; to maintain the right of each, and to cause justice to reign over us all.

But, unfortunately, law by no means confines itself to its proper functions. And when it has exceeded its proper functions, it has not done so merely in some inconsequential and debatable matters. The law has gone further than this; it has acted in direct opposition to its own purpose. The law has been used to destroy its own objective: It has been applied to annihilating the justice that it was supposed to maintain; to limiting and destroying rights which its real purpose was to respect. The law has placed the collective force at the disposal of the unscrupulous who wish, without risk, to exploit the person, liberty, and property of others. It has converted plunder into a right, in order to protect plunder. And it has converted lawful defense into a crime, in order to punish lawful defense.

-Frederic Bastiat

Please continue reading "The Law" written in 1850 by Frederic Bastiat. You will never realize how much of your Liberty has been destroyed by the federal government until you start reading history and turn off the electronic gadgets.


James A Watkins profile image

James A Watkins 7 years ago from Chicago

Quite a thread going on here. I will simply say that I agree with your article. It is a good read. And I thank you for bringing the truth to light. I believe you are doing all you can, for one person. Thanks!


RockinB profile image

RockinB 7 years ago

I've posted a rather lengthy rant and paragraph from a book. Why do I not see them?


Hal Licino profile image

Hal Licino 7 years ago from Toronto Author

bill yon: So the GOP lied. A lot. Who cares. All politicians lie because most of them are the scum of the earth. No politician in the history of the USA has ever dared move the country to Marxism. That is a many orders of magnitude greater violation to the spirit and essence of the nation than any war in Iraq or Vietnam or wherever, as it rips the heart and soul right out of the entire nation, leaving it to fester!

James Reno: Thank you very much for what has to be the smartest and sneakiest way to plug your health website on a completely unrelated Hub. Your segue was sheer marketing genius. I'm not going to delete it as I usually do to website promo spam since I'm really impressed. You're one sharp cookie, dude!

RockinB: Hear hear! No reply to your comment as you've said it all. Good work! I moderate all comments so as soon as I read them, I publish them. I do that since on this Hub alone I've already been called every profane expletive in the book, and I always try to keep my Hubs family friendly. You should see what they call me on some other Hubs... they're even worse than this one! Just a couple of minutes ago I had a commenter on a motorcycle Hub discuss how donkeys engage in anal intercourse with me. And that was just the part I can discuss on family friendly Hubs. The rest was much worse. :)

James A Watkins: I'm trying hard, but in union there is strength and if there was some way to harness the colloborative forces of all the like-minded Hubbers on this site, we could certainly make a large enough splash that both the media and the government would have to stand up and take notice!


James A Watkins profile image

James A Watkins 7 years ago from Chicago

If you have read my Hubs I am sure you know I am right there with you, Brother!


RockinB profile image

RockinB 7 years ago

Thanks for letting me rant. You have a great hub and the kool-aid drinking takers are just trying to discredit all voices of reason.

I have faith in my fellow countrymen and women. Every time I walk into wal-mart and see the empty shelves where the ammunition goes I know that we are silently arming. I believe it was Mae West who said there are three courses of action for Americans: The Ballot Box, Jury Box, and the Cartridge Box. The federal government knows we are arming ourselves and as soon as they become more afraid of us than we are of them things will start to turn around. I even read that some demo-rats where now questioning the cap and trade fiasco. Its all a charade. Americans are split right down the middle very near 50/50 so the pendulum will swing back and forth year after year to prevent one group from becoming revolutionary. Walk into a room of people and try to split them 50/50. They trade power as they confiscate the fruits of our labor and we are too busy arguing amongst ourselves about stupid things that would not even be an issue with the rule of law as written in the Constitution. Very convenient that our efforts are pointed sideways at our neighbors instead of straight towards Washington where it should be. How times have changed in this young country. Has anyone ever seen a poor politician? Anybody ever question why the three branches of government are not in the Social Security system with the huddled masses? Has anyone asked themselves why a 9 term Louisiana Congressman can get caught taking bribes from foreign countries and both parties are up in arms over the raiding of his congressional office and not the crime itself? How dare the serfs raid a U.S. congressman's office. Have they not read the 4th Amendment? There is no honor or shame in Washington. Only Plunderers. We let it happen and we the people are the only ones that can fix it. We have thrown off the chains of 1 King and are now being plundered by 535 kings and a bunch of foreign money printers. Thomas Jefferson stated a currency issued and controlled by a bank is more dangerous to our Liberty than a standing army. Our politicians obviously know where there bread is buttered as they do not want any meddling with the privately run federal reserve system who prints their fiat money.

"And what country can preserve it's liberties, if it's rulers are not warned from time to time that this people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms...The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants"

I wonder how many politicians would even know the author of those words. Less than 30% maybe.

The James Reno discovery piece was hilareous.


Misha profile image

Misha 7 years ago from DC Area

Take notice? Thank you Hal, i don;t want government to take notice of me, I know where it leads ;)


Jewels profile image

Jewels 7 years ago from Australia

Well.......... just maybe it needs to fall. Was it getting too big for its boots. Let another country have a go at being supreme for awhile. Maybe Ireland - whatcha think? As good a country as any!


Hal Licino profile image

Hal Licino 7 years ago from Toronto Author

James A Watkins: I know you've got my back and I have yours, bro! :) Now we gotta convince a whole whack more to come on board the SAVE AMERICA BANDWAGON!

Rockin B: You're absolutely right. Politicians wouldn't know Thomas Jefferson from George, Louise and Lionel Jefferson! :) I especially love your statement of: "Has anyone ever seen a poor politician?" Spot on! :)

Misha: Imprisonment in a gulag for a couple of decades... it's the least you can do to show your patriotism. But then again, you can go first! I have to stay out of jail to continue rabble rousing! :)

Jewels: Ireland is the wrong country. Don't get me wrong... I've lived in Ireland and love it and its people, but I can confidently state that the old Irish proverb is quite correct: "God invented whiskey so the Irish couldn't take over the world!" :)


Jewels profile image

Jewels 7 years ago from Australia

LOL. The leprachauns made me say that! It's as good a country as any, but I forgot about the whiskey. LOL


Hal Licino profile image

Hal Licino 7 years ago from Toronto Author

How could you even think of the Irish without remembering the whiskey? :)

I remember walking to work in both Dublin and Cork every morning and watching all the storekeepers hosing down the puke from their store windows. Since I don't drink more than a couple of beers a year, that was rather shocking.

If you could magically invent a teetotaler Irish population, then the rest of the world would have no choice but to submit to their totalitarian dictatorship for all time! The Irish RULE! Hail Hibernia! (Sober Hibernia anyway...) :)


Jewels profile image

Jewels 7 years ago from Australia

Now you know your statements are going to go straight to the Irish head and boasting will never cease. The puking I believe they do unashamedly as par for the course. But the pride of the Irish is seen to be at the forefront of their reasons for drinking - it's because they can!


Hal Licino profile image

Hal Licino 7 years ago from Toronto Author

I have to stand by my statements. On those rare occasions when you can catch the Irish between hangover and binge, they are AWESOME! The only problem is that those times usually last only minutes a day! :)

I like to tell the story of when I was working over there and a colleague did me a favor, so I told him I'd like to show my gratitude by taking him to the pub that night and his drinks were on me. 17 pints of Guinness! SEVENTEEN! How in the name of Saint Finbarr can anyone dump 17 pints of that black bitter sewage water down their gullets in a couple of hours AND SURVIVE is completely beyond me! :(


James Harry 7 years ago

Hal and others: I came across this hub and have been reading the many comments here. I have no idea if any country can last forever, but if America is to survive it will only happen if the people here stop sniping at each other and think about what is best for everyone. Until then, be aware that most countries fail because of an internal inability to survive a crisis.

Hal, your Weimar example is good but Weimar fell partially because of rampant inflation due to a world depression, which then affected negatively the ability to provide jobs. After World War I Germany just was a mess and widely different parties tried to stamp their mark on what could save Germany. Communist (The Spartikus group especially) http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/GERweimar.htm and Fascists were not the largest parties after WWI but these two emerged bigger and meaner after bloody street fighting. Both parties were suddenly significant and had some surprisingly similar goals, (work, government control over everything, etc.) but different ways about how to get there.

Hitler came to power because Germany was already defeated by its own attitudes that everything was lost, and they "needed a savior" to rescue them from various "enemies". They blamed the Versailles Treaty, France, England, Russia, the US, and many others for their own problems.

But Hitler was also a very savvy man, and he used people's greed to get what he wanted. He used business people who thought they could manipulate him like a puppet, because they failed to understand he was very dedicated to making his dreams a reality. Eventually, and much too late, they learned who was controlling whom.

The German People wanted Hitler because they felt betreyed from within, they blamed Jews, Bankers and big business people, as well as a weak government, for their woes. Hitler took that anti-semitism, hatred of the wealthy and created the German version of a populist movement that caught fire. Very soon his street thugs won out and he fought and clawed his way to power.

We in the US need to know that in the 1930's there was a situation where it could have happened here. Groups like the Communist Party and the Fascist Bundes League were also trying to win over the despondent. Today there are groups using racial slurs to win over a following.

I do believe that if America does not overcome these passions there will be bloodshed on the streets. Isn't there already an ongoing war between gangs? It could just as easily spill out over the entire country, especially with people like governor Rick Perry in Texas hinting at sesession and other leaders of radical groups demanding their space as well.

It's no longer a matter of Conservative and Liberal. It's a matter of wanting America to survive or wanting America to fail. In this one there is no compromise.


The Manmoth profile image

The Manmoth 7 years ago from Just a Hair Shy of Paradise, U.S.A.

Hal: Great Hub and an even better bunch of comment-banter between many econimics-savey hubbers. If you please, I'd like to throw in my two cents about about socialism and the reason why it doesn't work. An excerpt from my most recent, widely unread Blog follows:

"...Isn’t there a happy medium? Isn’t there a way to get mine but still give back. Socialism definitely isn’t the answer. Look at Russia. That didn’t work. Look at Kali-forn-yia (sorry Arnold). Back to Russia; it didn’t work because there are Lions amongst the peaceful herd and these individuals have a blood-thirst for the finer things of life, for power, for more than the bland diet necessary for mere survival. This is the system of difference that was created.

There is an idea behind capitalism and that is that every man holds a self-evident truth – the pursuit of self interest. That is, each man, at his core, will act in the best interest of himself and the culmination of the actions of all men (whether in cooperation or in opposition) will be the result of the civilized economy of the whole...."

If interested, see the link to my blog from my Hubpage homepage. And Hal, my intent was not to Blarket. I just thought no need to restate previously published thoughts. And Hal, while I don't agree with everything you said nor with all of the comments of your loyal hubbers, your a good thinker you write well and with passion. So long as passionate expressions remain rampant upon our soil and freely blow within our wind the greater justice of 'All That Is' will prevail. Thank you for your contribution to the evolution of IDEAS. I am now a fan and I'll be reading.

Do More Now,

The Manmoth


Hal Licino profile image

Hal Licino 7 years ago from Toronto Author

I'm up to my ears in alligators trying to make a Friday deadline. I'll be back to reply some more soon. Keep on commentin'! :)


Hubpages News 7 years ago

There is nothing godly about pure capitalism, nor nothing evil about social justice. As a taxper, I expect a good return on my investment, something I could not get through Wallstreet, while preventing total chaos and maham.


Hal Licino profile image

Hal Licino 7 years ago from Toronto Author

There's nothing evil about social justice. There is EVERYTHING evil in Communism and Marxism. Period.


Strophios profile image

Strophios 7 years ago

I don't think you know what communism is. Or marxism. of socialism. I can guarantee you that Obama is none of these things.


Hal Licino profile image

Hal Licino 7 years ago from Toronto Author

... and I can guarantee you that you couldn't buy a clue if I lent you $20. :)


Strophios profile image

Strophios 7 years ago

No, please, I'm seriously curious, what exactly do you think Marxism/socialism/communism are? (First hint, they're not the same thing).


Hal Licino profile image

Hal Licino 7 years ago from Toronto Author

Puh-leeez don't have me regurgitate a textbook definition of the isms. This is not high school social studies class. Having spent years in Iron Curtain countries, I have a very clear understanding of the three terms, how they are applied, and am 100% standing by my statements that Mr. Obama is a faithful adherent of all three intertwined political ideologies.


Strophios profile image

Strophios 7 years ago

Ah, see, that's your first mistake. If you want actual communism, like, the kind written about by Marx, then the last place to look would be any of the Iron Curtain countries. That's like saying, "I know all about democracy, because I lived in Zimbabwe/Iran/etc." Furthermore, Obama bears no relation to any such. The best you might be able to say is that he might be kind of faintly socialist because the government now has major stakes in some private companies. However, that is nothing to actual socialism. Not to mention that it's not as if Obama is doing anything with those stakes, just keeping the companies from collapsing.


Hal Licino profile image

Hal Licino 7 years ago from Toronto Author

FAINTLY SOCIALIST? My dear friend, you are in dire need of immediate psychiatric attention. I have already proven with hard facts over and over again in my various Obama Hubs how the new President it implementing radical extreme leftist AND PROFOUNDLY ANTI AMERICAN policies which Hugo Chavez himself wouldn't dare touch. Indeed, Crazy Cuckoo Commie Cojone Chavez has already gone on the record as stating that he and Castro are to the RIGHT of Obama. If you want to come onto this Hub and spout nonsense, then you're just wasting my time and the time of my readers. If you have some SOLID facts to analyze, let 'er rip. :)


Strophios profile image

Strophios 7 years ago

Facts? You like facts? How about this: Obama is attempting to implement universal health care, with a plan far to the right of anything in the West European democracies. The bailouts passed during his term have not meant taking control of private industry, just supporting it in a somewhat Keynesian fashion (Keynes was a capitalist by the by). Heck, he didn't even stop the pay out of retardedly large bonuses to worthless top executives, so any claims that he is restricting the freedoms of private enterprise are unfounded. I could go on... but I need to fix myself some lunch. And this should give you plenty to chew on for a while.


Hal Licino profile image

Hal Licino 7 years ago from Toronto Author

"Obama is attempting to implement universal health care, with a plan far to the right of anything in the West European democracies..." Oh my sweet lord. Do you get your news from the United States Communist Party's People's Weekly World? The health care proposals will bankrupt this country, forcing the middle class to effectively evaporate under the weight of completely unpayable tax loads! There is no way READ MY LIPS NO WAY that the American people will ever get out from the $15+ trillion deficit that Mr. Obama is pied pipering the nation into. The only thing I need to chew on is your butt, dude. BTW: The next person who insinuates that Obama is a Keynesian gets spanked. And I have a studded leather strap in my garage that would make any BDSM enthusiast cry in envy. :)


Hal Licino profile image

Hal Licino 7 years ago from Toronto Author

Just look at the first news story under this comment capsule: "With the daily sinking of the Anglo-West into the morass of Marxism..." AND THAT'S FROM FREAKIN' PRAVDA!

My dear God. If someone had told me twenty years ago that I'd be reading that in Pravda within my lifetime, I would have thought that they are in as much dire need of a shrink or a padded room as my buddy Strophios! :)


Strophios profile image

Strophios 7 years ago

You are a nut. I don't think you know what facts even are.

Where do you get your news from then, FOX? Because I can guarantee you that the current health care proposals are to the right of what we see in other first world nations. Also, by the by, the point of income redistribution in communism/Marxism (of which you seem so afraid) is not do destroy the middle class. It would be to give everyone an equal share. I'm pretty sure that we've enough wealth in the US to give everyone a pretty solid standard of living, equally divided. (Not to say I'm in favor, just pointing out that if Obama is all about crushing the middle class, particularly whilst allowing bankers million dollar bonuses, then there is no way he is a Marxist or a communist. And probably not a socialist either.)

I read some of your other hubs. And you have very few useful facts on your side. Mostly you just make ad hominem attacks (i.e. attacks falling into the ad hominem fallacy, making them non-logical and argumentatively not useful).


Hal Licino profile image

Hal Licino 7 years ago from Toronto Author

"...the point of income redistribution in communism/Marxism (of which you seem so afraid) is not do destroy the middle class. It would be to give everyone an equal share."

WOW. You're dangerous, dude.

It's quite obvious that you're a commie lunatic, just as misguided and idiotic as the rest of the blind Obama cheerleaders who won't realize what's happened until the nation has been destroyed. YOU AND YOUR COMMIE BUDDIES HAVE NO CLUE. Grow a brain cell and then we can debate logically. I have no time for the terminally deluded. Howzdat for ad hominem? :)


Strophios profile image

Strophios 7 years ago

That is indeed a perfect example of the ad hominem fallacy. You claimed I was was "terminally deluded" and used that as an excuse to ignore my arguments. Presumably because you could not beat them in reasoned debate. As a dying favor to the "terminally deluded" could you please attempt to rationally debate the arguments I brought forth?

Also, if you had actually read my entire post you would have read the part right after that quotation where I said "Not to say I'm in favor [...]." Given that I'm not actually in favor of such, claiming that I am a communist is groundless and deluded.


Hal Licino profile image

Hal Licino 7 years ago from Toronto Author

"As a dying favor to the "terminally deluded" could you please attempt to rationally debate the arguments I brought forth?"

Dude, I don't want you to DIE, I just want you to wake up and smell the commie coffee. There is NO NO NOOOOOOOOOOOO justification of Obama's policies as anything but the most extreme (PICK ONE OR ALL) Socialism/Communism/Marxism. Period. I have addressed your comments and those xeroxed by all those incredibly politically-unaware sheep who are being led to the slaughter by Mr. Obama in:

How Obama's Undeniably Marxist Communist Policies Threaten America

Top 20 Events Which Prove Obama Is A Marxist Communist

Top 7 Marxist Communist Policies Being Implemented By Obama Today

Touring The United Socialist States Of America's Capital

How To Nationalize GM, Ripoff Investors, Gift It To The Unions & Deny It's Communism

Why State Capitalism Is A Socialism America Cannot Afford

What If... Obama Is Really Going To Destroy America?

How The Socialist States Of America Fell Off The Wagoner

Why Does Socialism Always Fail?

Give Me $12,667: However, I Won't Tell You How I Spend It - The Fed

What Will The $3.6 Trillion Obama Budget Buy You?

Merry Christmas 2009! The Deficit Now Equals The Cost Of All US Houses!

The links are above. And you can call yourself anything you want, but when you make "redistribution" statements like the one I quoted in my last reply, it proves that I was right when I said that you don't have a clue. :)


Strophios profile image

Strophios 7 years ago

You said "terminally deluded" which implies to me that you think I am not long for this earth, desire having nothing to do with it.

"There is NO NO NOOOOOOOOOOOO justification of Obama's policies as anything but the most extreme (PICK ONE OR ALL) Socialism/Communism/Marxism."

You just keep saying that, as if endless repetition will change reality and make it true. I have read some of your above posted hubs and, as I said, most it was just silly ad hominem attacks, which, logically speaking, mean nothing.

When I make "'redistribution' statement"? You mean, when I state facts about how Marxism and communism actually work? Simply knowing the actual facts about those two systems, as you do not, does not mean I agree with them.

By the by, your last hub, the bit about the deficit, is a bit silly, for two reasons. First, most of the deficit has nothing to do with Obama, you have Bush Jr. to thank for that (you know, his irresponsible fiscal policies, two wars, idiotic tax cuts, etc.). Second, that bit about a "Chinese Madoff" owning your house doesn't make sense, can't happen. See, in the United States, the government doesn't own your property, and so they cannot, ever, use it as collateral.


Hal Licino profile image

Hal Licino 7 years ago from Toronto Author

Dude, it's quite obvious that Osmium and Iridium aren't the densest substances in the world as they are absolutely porous as compared to your skull.

Just as an example, where is the ad hominem attacks in the text of:

Top 20 Events Which Prove Obama Is A Marxist Communist

Top 7 Marxist Communist Policies Being Implemented By Obama Today

What the HELL are you talking about? Or are you typing in your parents' basement to while away a rainy day? Your redistribution statement is straight out of Marx, your deficit statement is entirely 100% wrong as LOOK IT UP in 200 days Obama has indebted the USA MORE than in the previous 200 YEARS, and generally, you have the validity of opinion of a Chavez red beret vigilante thug moron.

My complete and profound comprehension of the entire left side of the ideological spectrum is lucidly demonstrated in the Hubs linked above, as is the unassailable position that extreme leftist policies are inherently anti-American, treasonous and seditious. I'm not going to sit here and waste my keystrokes just to reiterate what I have already clearly stated over and over again.

If you wanna just engage in a verbal wank, go do it on someone else's Hub. :)


Strophios profile image

Strophios 7 years ago

All twenty events are ad hominem or similarly fallacious attacks. They mention no actions Obama has taken, mostly actions of people he happens to know or be related to. The few actions taken by him were mostly in the fairly distant past.

As for the seven policies, none of them are ad hominem, although many of them prove nothing. It is you reading your Marxist/communist/socialist bogeyman into everything Obama or anyone he knows does.

My redistribution statement is straight out of Marx. That's because it is a fact about Marxism. It is not the opinion which I hold. It is possible to know facts about positions and ideologies which you do not hold, a fact you seem incapable of grasping (perhaps that is why your imaginings of Marxism, communism, and socialism are so ludicrous).

As for the deficit statement, you make the positive claim, thus it is your responsibility to provide the evidence. I did a quick google and found a number of articles on his plans to reduce the deficit. Feel free to produce a competent source.

This is no verbal wank. First, even if it were a wank, it would be written. Second, I am actually trying to show you the error of your ways. You can be happy knowing that you've proven so ludicrous and intractable that I may soon give up, but I make no guarantees.


Hal Licino profile image

Hal Licino 7 years ago from Toronto Author

"All twenty events are ad hominem or similarly fallacious attacks."

You're out of your friggin' mind dude. You are a prototypical example of the radical leftist who can't see the forest because the trees keep smacking him in the face.

Don't try to wriggle out of your comments as unbiased referral. Your wording is clear and listed above.

PLANS TO REDUCE THE DEFICIT? Like Obama piling on $6 TRILLION while demanding that his cabinet find $100 million in savings? CAN YOU COUNT? Or does anything that ends in -illion all mean the same thing to you?

And you'll show me the "error" of my ways when:

1) Pigs fly

2) Susan Boyle is featured as a Playboy centerfold

3) You join the John Birch Society

I'm quickly tiring of your pointless tirades. Do you have a legitimate factual point to make which I have not already totally discredited as idiotic commie bullcrap or do you wanna keep WANKING?


calfcreek 7 years ago

Gosh I hate the paranoid conspiracy types...but has anyone noticed that McCain/Palin were leading in the polls until the bank collapse happened in Sept. '08? Then, we find out that they had been struggling with these assets since Oct. '07? Why did the media have to drop the bomb in Sept.?

Elections have consequences and we are reaping what we have sown. Unfortunately, as recent events have shown, it is going to get worse before it gets better. nex ut tyranus


Hal Licino profile image

Hal Licino 7 years ago from Toronto Author

Well, the media in general historically has an extreme leftward bent, so nothing surprises me any more! :)


Cls1321 profile image

Cls1321 7 years ago

I am with you on some things...and I do HATE government. And we definitely are NOT free.

with that said I don't blame our current president at all and as to one point you made...the market has been recovering slowly but surely since Obama took office, just getting off a great four weeks of rises. Bush is the one who point us in the pointless war...Bush is the one who failed to run the country and really got us in this mess.

So I guess I'm with you on half of it, and not with you on the other half.

as my favorite teacher used to say though.

"it is fine to debate and disagree, as far as I'm concerned, you sir have the right to be wrong."

=) either way it is great to see people taking the time to write about what they believe.


Hal Licino profile image

Hal Licino 7 years ago from Toronto Author

I appreciate your comment, but Obama's commie spending spree had nothing to do with the relatively minor (and I assure you short lived) bear market rally we've recently experienced.

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