Gay Rights are Civil Rights

One should lead....
One should lead....
....to the other
....to the other

And It's Time for black people to realize that

So, I saw a video the other day where this black preacher was accusing gays of “hijacking the Civil Rights”. Hmmm, it struck me as funny that you can hijack something that belongs to everyone. But here is what the Right Rev. Keith Ratliff Sr., president of the Iowa-​Nebraska chapter of the NAACP, had to say, “Deviant behavior is not the same as being denied your right to vote,” and calling any parallel between the African-​American civil rights movement and the gay civil rights movement an “insult.”

Civil Rights, which are defined by Webster’s as being “the nonpolitical rights of a citizen; especially: the rights of personal liberty guaranteed to United States citizens by the 13th and 14th amendments to the Constitution and by acts of Congress.” The “rights of personal liberty”, not to mention those inalienable rights guaranteed by the Bill of Rights do not belong to one group of humans in this country, or for that matter on this planet.

They are guaranteed because we are all humans. It seems that many African-American evangelicals seem to thing that gay people are somehow sexual deviants. I admit gay male sex would not be my cup of tea, however, I am not sure how two consenting adults doing what they think is right is deviant, However, the question that needs to be asked is do gays, who are humans, have the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness?

Why is it that the military seems to understand this better than most ordinary Americans? Remember Executive Order 9981, it is the order given by President Harry Truman on July 26, 1948 that permanently desegregated the military. For those of you counting that is six years before Brown v. Board of Education and a full 12 before my grandmother took me to that ‘All White’ water fountain in Woodville, TX and took a drink. Now, the United States military has begun accepting gay applicants and training its soldiers to accept gay recruits as, the horror, humans!

I know, I am going to be accused of being gay again. Good luck proving that one. However, I am angry at the fact that African Americans of my generation and those older who remember being treated as less than humans cannot empathize with those who are now in the same struggle.

You see I remember buying shoes at the back of the store and having to go to back of the restaurant where my Aunt work so that she could give me my food. I remember a KKK raid at our shotgun shack one night because they believed my guardian’s husband had looked at a white woman. I remember losing one of my best friends because her father thought she and I was dating and he told her she could not see me anymore. We still speak to this day.

Gay Rights are civil rights and I am tired of intelligent African Americans not speaking up for them as such. It is time to let gay people drink from the fountain of freedom.

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Comments 46 comments

thebrucebeat profile image

thebrucebeat 5 years ago from Nags Head, NC

I think you'll enjoy my hub on Rights vs. Righteousness. We are on the same page my brother.

They accuse me of being gay, too. Don't know why they don't think I'm black. Maybe it's my picture.


braudboy profile image

braudboy 5 years ago from Long Beach, MS

You are mistaken. The clever lie being used by gay-rights activitists is to claim some sort of gender status or class of people to their cause and then say they are being discriminated against. The plain truth is that there is no class or group of people. What is being discussed is a behavior. Society understands what behavior is being promoted with this movement and society rejects it.


habueld profile image

habueld 5 years ago from Riverside, CA Author

Braudboy what do you do with hermaphrodites and those like this woman http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caster_Semenya who are born with breast, a vagina, but has men testicles embedded in her body?


braudboy profile image

braudboy 5 years ago from Long Beach, MS

Give me a break. This is not what you are talking about. A typical liberal who wants to use some outlandish and extremely rare example to shove some social deviancy down our throats. The gay movement is nothing more than an attempt to get society to accept bad behavior. No thanks.


habueld profile image

habueld 5 years ago from Riverside, CA Author

It's exactly what I am talking about. Gays say, and I believe that they are born that way. You say to me that a person can have both sets of genitalia, but can't be born with a hormonal imbalance that makes them more effeminate or more masculine. How shallow. You didn't answer the question.


habueld profile image

habueld 5 years ago from Riverside, CA Author

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/03/09/60minute...

By the way, hermaphrodites are not rare.


 5 years ago

Look, quit talking carnival examples and lets talk reality. Hermaphrodites are not your subject, but rather your lame arguement to justify a bad behavior. It is just like when liberals argue abortion rights. They argue that women need this right in case of rape or incest or some other rare event to allow the rampant killing of babies. Try actually argueing the actual merits of gay behavior instead of talking such nonsense. No matter how you slice it, homosexuality is a behavior and a choice.


habueld profile image

habueld 5 years ago from Riverside, CA Author

So, being heterosexual was your choice?


braudboy profile image

braudboy 5 years ago from Long Beach, MS

Being heterosexual was they way we were designed. I can give you an anatomy class if you like, but I think you already know this. Now, can someone choose to deviate from their designed function.....surely they can. I can stubbornly walk on my knees or hands or even walk backwards, but it will be obvious to anyone observing that I am not functioning as designed. Now, comes the part where society takes a role. Society must decide what behaviors and actions are acceptable to maintain a decent society. Clearly, they have spoken on the issue of homosexuality. It is an objectionable BEHAVIOR and has been rejected as so. This is not to say that those who choose to participate in homosexual acts cant do so. They can. What they cannot do is make society approve of their misbehavior.


habueld profile image

habueld 5 years ago from Riverside, CA Author

You still didn't answer my question and you contradict yourself. Again, what do you do with hermaphrodites?


braudboy profile image

braudboy 5 years ago from Long Beach, MS

I did answer your question. Man is born with free will. If someone is lazy...is he born that way? If someone has sex with an animal...is he born that way? IT is called behavior. Hermaphrodites are not the problem. It is the behavior of those who want society to accept homosexual activity as normal. No thanks.


braudboy profile image

braudboy 5 years ago from Long Beach, MS

listen, it is pretty simple. Homosexual activity is a behavior and a choice. It is no different than a smoker, who I am sure feels his rights have been stomped on by society as more and more places try to prohibit this behavior. There is not a "gay" person as much as there is a person who is choosing a behavior of engaging in gay sex or having intimacy with a "same sex" partner. It is a lifestyle CHOICE! Society has recognized this behavior as objectionable and, so far, has overwhelmingly rejected this movement's attempt to legitimize it.


habueld profile image

habueld 5 years ago from Riverside, CA Author

Smoking kills other people. It doesn't just kill the smoker. Gays have been a part of our society since the beginning of time. They just recently found a skeleton in some country that was obviously male, but was buried in the custom of females.

You say it's a choice and gay people say they were born that way. There are female hermaphrodites, who for all intent and purposes look like, women but have male testicles embedded in their bodies. What is their choice? Their question for you is how old were you when you realized you were attracted to women?


braudboy profile image

braudboy 5 years ago from Long Beach, MS

You can say you are born an alcoholic, born lazy, born any kind of way you want when you are trying to make excuses or get your way. The simple fact is that sexual activity is voluntary and a choice. YOu can try to twist that around if you wish...but you only fool yourself. Common sense takes over and refutes this absurdity. People who choose this lifestyle have been desperate for acceptance of their behavior, and of course are resorting to extremes to force society into this depravity. If you really want to study this problem, you will find countless examples of people who have freed themselves from this lifestyle and are living a heterosexual relationship and normal lives. So much for being born this way.


Stump Parrish profile image

Stump Parrish 5 years ago from Don't have a clue, I'm lost.

Great hub habueld, Excuse me for jumping into this one a little late.

braudboy, you stated //Society understands what behavior is being promoted with this movement and society rejects it.//

I assume that by society you are refering to those who pretend to think and come to the same conclusion as you do, correct.

Who elected you as spokesperson for all of society any way? I prefer my spokespeople to have a clue about what they are speaking of. You obviously don't fit the bill now do you?

//Being heterosexual was they way we were designed. I can give you an anatomy class if you like, but I think you already know this.//

Explain what anatomy has to do with phsycology and how our individual brains function, please.

Which chapter and verse are you using to prove homosexuality is a choice and that it's bad behavior? I can only assume that you yourself are a homosexual considering the vast pool of knowledge you have about homosexuals.

How many years have you spent studying homosexuality. It must have been decades for you to honestly believe you know more about the subject than all the other homosexuals out there, You also know more about this than all the doctors and scientists who have studied homosexuality all their lives. Where did you get you masters degree in human behavior from. The little country church full of ignorant bigots has not been granted any form of accademic status to my knowlegde.

//Society has recognized this behavior as objectionable and, so far, has overwhelmingly rejected this movement's attempt to legitimize it.//

Again you claim to be the spokesperson for society. Mighty big head you are carrying around there isn't it?

Society has nothing to do with it, It is the religiously weak minded people who are attempting to control society with their dark ages style of thinking.

Everything I see as normal christan behavior has nothing to do with the teaching of the very person your religion was named for.

How would your jesus treat homosexuals if he were around today?

Please point out all the verses that instruct modern christians to treat everyone they don't like as second class citizens. What is so hard about understanding one of the main points that our country was founded on. What is so hard about understanding that All Men Are Created Equal Means that all men are created equal? 5 simple words that very few christians can make heads or tails out of. Amen


braudboy profile image

braudboy 5 years ago from Long Beach, MS

Stump- you have only insults and no information. The typical weapon of ignorance is to just accuse bigotry or bias. I have not promoted any ill treatment of those who claim to be gay. I only reject it as a normal behavior and so has society as a whole. I have not been elected as a spokesman for society as Stump so clumsily suggests. I am informing you that society has rejected this nonsense as evidenced by the many times it has appeared on a ballot in various states. Homosexuality has been soundly defeated every time it is tried to get legitimized. So, again I call Stump on his silliness, as I am not the spokesperson for Society, just a messenger. I dont promote an different treatment for people. However, there is quite a difference in acknowledging and pointing out bad behavior. Society has a role in doing so, and has made a very clear statement regarding homosexual activities. Homosexuals have tried to claim some type of gender status that does not exist. There have been no scientific conclusions to support this. They are no different from smokers, drinkers, etc. or any other habit or bad behavior and deserve no special consideration. They more need a reality check that their behavior is ridiculous. I do understand that it might be addictive and that there is a strong acceptance by those who enter the lifestyle by others in that lifestyle so that they feel very comfortable in that lifestyle. There are issues as with many bad behaviors such as drug abuse, etc. that need dealing with. Society does them no favors if it tries to accept this foolishness instead of attempting to help them overcome this destructive behavior.


Stump Parrish profile image

Stump Parrish 5 years ago from Don't have a clue, I'm lost.

Please define society for me. I and a lot of people I know consider themselves to be part of society and you obviously don't speak for us.

Where did I insult you? Is the simply act of disagreeing and or presentling a different opinion that big of an insult to you.

You may not have been elected spokesperson but you obviously don't have a problem pretending do you?

How do you know what information I have or dont have? I dont have the bible if that is what you are referring to.

I really enjoy watchig the uninformed iggnorant masses reject any and everyting scientists and doctors discover. Yes sir, it makes me proud to be an American when the ignorant masses reject the findings of professionals who have spent their lives studying a subject. No wonder our educational system is sinking as fast as it is. Society as a whole has no use for education of any kind.

// I am informing you that society has rejected this nonsense as evidenced by the many times it has appeared on a ballot in various states. Homosexuality has been soundly defeated every time it is tried to get legitimized// Nothing proves something wrong like having a bunch of high school drop outs decide that the scientists are wrong and they are right. Yes sir that makes it a fact, no doubt about it. If 50 3rd graders believe something and 1 scientist doesn't, it obviously makes the 3rd graders correct and their position the only one based on truth?

You seem to be confused about this country. You seem to think we are a democracy and operate under the idea that mob rule , rules.

How do you propose to help people over come the behavior that you decide is destructive? What gives you the right to decide what is acceptable behavior for anyone other than yourself?

Our constitution was written to protect the minority from the majority. Our founding Fathers protected all Americans from the very type of abuse you are promoting. Your decision that a behavior that many see as natural is in fact destructive, is based soley upon the fact that you and a bunch of your friends decided it was destructive. You feel you have the right to force others to obey your wishes regardless of what harm it causes people you dont like.


braudboy profile image

braudboy 5 years ago from Long Beach, MS

Stump- let me slow down for you. First of all, a society is a group of people that share the same geography and are subject to the same political authority. Now, I never said that I spoke for you, just as you dont speak for me and many more who believe as I do. I merely reported that Society has ruled on this subject repeatedly, and all of it has come down resoundingly against the homosexual activity as being normal and against giving it a prominent place in society such as marriage. You dont have to like it, I am just telling you what has happened. And what the heck are you talking about scientists and doctors discovering????? YOu are delusional. YOu have been duped by this agenda that is trying to force itself on decent society. Society has a right to regulate behavior whether you like it or not. That is not mob rule. It is our constitution. The only mobs I have seen is the idiots from the gay movement making asses of themselves when they protest and march. Society makes decisions on behavior. It is no different than society banning public nudity. There might be those who truly are committed to being nude and want to parade around in their birthday suit. Does society have a right to prevent this. Of course they do. Regarding gay behavior, no one is really pushing to ban their foolishness. On the other hand, our common sense and common decency declines to give it status either. It has no place on the marriage platform. Marriage has a long-standing definitiion as the union of a man and woman. Period!


Stump Parrish profile image

Stump Parrish 5 years ago from Don't have a clue, I'm lost.

My bad. I didn't realize I was conversing with someone who is part of THE DECENT SOCIETY. That remark said it all.

The supreme court has final say in these matters. Just like they did with abortion and the religious dislike of it. The fact that the so called decent society objects to abortion, doesn't mean that our laws are affected. No one who believes they are part of the good people, the chosen people, the people who believe they have the god given right to treat people they disapprove of like animals, don't have this right.

The fact that a bunch of uneducated people think something, does not make this a fact.

If you really want to address the people doing harm to society you would be picketing outside of your local church. These churches convince high school drop out that they are qualified for something besides flipping burgers. I know you have no interest in facts so you are simply basing your beliefs on the fact that you believe it. It doesn't matter to you if there is one shred of truth in your beliefs or tons of it against them. Common belief amognst uneducated people does not make a belief fact. what is so hard to understand about that. Religious belief that the earth was flat and also the center of the universe, didn't make it so, now did it? People were killed speaking out about these stupid beliefs and what you seek to do is just as bad. You believe homosexuals are unnatural and therefore not entitled to the rights you believe you have. They don't behave the way you think people should behave and therefore are subject to all the descrimination you can legally muster.

You must have associated with hundreds of homosexuals for years in order to justify your ability to decide what makes them who and what they are. The only thing you didn't need to arrive at this decision was the years of professional research done by intelligently trained specialists. All you need is an unfounded belief to discover the truth about anything. Amen

Religous marriage is not valid in this country unless registered with the state. State marriage does not rely on a religious ceremony to be considered valid. What does the religious opinion have to do with the only valid form of marriage permitted under our laws?

I was unaware that one of the symptoms of being bit by the gay bug was a sudden desire to partake in public nudity. You really have done some in depth study in this haven't you?

Religious people in 44 states in America have fought for the right to kill their child with prayer. Should we legalize all forms of child sacrifice or does society have the right to protect all children's lives? Even if, and especially when, people are using their god as their justification for outright child sacrifice?


Stump Parrish profile image

Stump Parrish 5 years ago from Don't have a clue, I'm lost.

hab, sorry about taking over this discussion. I can't resists figuring out where these people get their ideas. I know but getting them to admit it is like trying to get gay marriage accepted by bigots accross this country. Like pulling a bunch of bad teeth with no pain killers.


habueld profile image

habueld 5 years ago from Riverside, CA Author

No problem Stump. I love the conversation.


Stump Parrish profile image

Stump Parrish 5 years ago from Don't have a clue, I'm lost.

I'll tell you something habueld, I have wonder the very thing you covered in this hub for the very same reasons. I have never understood the widespread fear and dislike of homosexuals in the AfricanAmerican community. I grew up here in the south during the 60's and 70's. I moved here from the north and couldn't understand the general level of hatred expressed towards black by most whites. I see the homosexual community being treated the same way and the most vocal group is the blacks. They are treating the homosexuals the very same way they were treated and are ok with that. I watched the civil rights abuses from the unique position of never being taught to dispise all blacks.

Iwas hoping to see some feed back from other blacks in and out of the church. Maybe if I shut my mouth for a minute they might get a word in edgewise. Peace, great hub.


sholland10 profile image

sholland10 5 years ago from Southwest Missouri

Now, Stump, here you are clumping all Christians together again... You know I wrote my hub against judging gays. We aren't all that bad, are we? ;-)

Habueld, great points in your hub. I am a Christian who believes God loves ALL unconditionally, even that rascally Stump. :-)


Stump Parrish profile image

Stump Parrish 5 years ago from Don't have a clue, I'm lost.

Hey sholland and thx for the chuckle. I actually had to go back and read my comments and still think I was discussing religion in general terms. I know that there are numerous sects of christianity that all have slightly different beliefs and accepted behaviors. The problem I have is that each one of them refers to themselves simply as a christian. If christians cant tell each other a part, what chance do I have as an atheist? I have suggested that ya'll start wearing labels or stickers so we can tell the difference, ;-). Please excuse my smart elickness, I also reread most of braudboy's garbage while reading my posts. No way could I ever lump you or a lot of thinking christians in with bb, lol.

All I had to go on when trying to figure out what kind of christian braudboy is was his use of the standardized, fundamentalistic, evangelical leaning, homophobic rant. Homosexuals are just like cigarette smokers. The're obviously are suffering from second hand gayness. This is probably why they fear gay pride marches, there is so much second hand gayness floating around, no one is safe. I make a joke of this rediculous statement and yet braudboy claims to believe it. I do not believe all christians are stuck in the same steaming pile of ignorance braudboy spends his few second of his daily thinking time mired in.

Seriously sholland, how do you deal with someone who equates homosexuality with walking on their hands or walking backwards? How do you explain to a student that an anatomy class can not be used to understand human sexuality?

Anyone who posts...Man is born with free will. If someone is lazy...is he born that way? If someone has sex with an animal...is he born that way? IT is called behavior...in an effort to explain why homosexuals aren't born that way, deserves what ever public ridecule they get.


habueld profile image

habueld 5 years ago from Riverside, CA Author

I'm a Christian too SHolland and that is why I started this blog because God does love everybody. Nice to meet you.

Stump looks like she knows you.


Stump Parrish profile image

Stump Parrish 5 years ago from Don't have a clue, I'm lost.

yes sir, I have the pleasure of knowing Sholland. You'll like her if you haven't met her before. Smart lady with a lot of common sense. We agree to disagree on occasion but I think she secretly agrees with me more than she lets on, hehehe. Check out some of her hubs and see if you don't agree. Peace


sholland10 profile image

sholland10 5 years ago from Southwest Missouri

Nice to meet you, too, Habueld!! Keep on Hubbin'!!

Stump it is always a pleasure to run into you. Secretly agreeing with you... Grrrr... Let's give the folks what they want and just nip and bite and tear each other to pieces. HA!!

Now, it looks like I probably don't stand a chance against either of you because you both seem to be more left politically where I am more right/middle. I don't argue politics, though. It is ever changing and corrupting on both sides and everyone's situation is different, which is what causes them to be left or right.

Now, y'all take care and I'll see ya around the hubs! :)


braudboy profile image

braudboy 5 years ago from Long Beach, MS

Stump-you make up lies and exxagerate and sound ridiculous. No one is being treated like animals. You are obviously ignorant about the churches. Your comments of hatred and bigotry toward them tell me alot about you. YOu constantly try to assign some gender status to gay activity. It is an activity or a behavior and all of your belly-aching wont change that. No one is being discriminated against....at least no more than a smoker, a nudist, or any other behavior. I am giving examples of bad behavior when I mention nudists. YOu arent very clever are you??? I am pointing out society's role in discouraging bad behavior. It has nothing to do with discriminating against a group of people, but rather disallowing certain conduct. ...and, of course, the typical liberal response is to accuse of hatred and judgement. I have not done either toward any person. I am making my comments toward the behavior and conduct and not toward any individual. But society must have standards and values if it will stand the test of time. America's values and its society has certainly declined over the years and the rise of homosexuality is one example of this. I would not doubt that one day it is accepted as normal. Hey Stump.....you get no where with your heckling of me. Dont get me started because I can bash with the best of them. Your liberal ignorance and your lack of character are not becoming. Your lack of reverance for Christian values and God are not appealing. You see Stump, when you lack values and character, you are easily swayed into accepting all types of debased activity. Try learning some principled, and character-building structure to your life and not just some anything-goes approach. You might find it enlightening.


braudboy profile image

braudboy 5 years ago from Long Beach, MS

Stump- Do you understand that many people who have lived in the gay lifestyle, have gotten themselves out of this destructive activity, and have returned to normal, heterosexual relationships. So much for beiing born this way. You almost have me convinced that some people can be born idiots. But I am still pulling for you. I do understand that it is a very powerful and addictive force in some people lives, but it is, nonetheless, still a behavior and a choice that can be controlled. There is usually an underlying event or circumstance or trauma in that persons life that led them into this lifestyle.


Stump Parrish profile image

Stump Parrish 5 years ago from Don't have a clue, I'm lost.

The fact that I disagree with is a sure sign I am ignorant, correct?

I haven't made one attempt to assign anything to the gay lifestyle. I am simply repeating facts that people who trained their entire lives to discover have in fact discovered. What pray tell are you basing your opinions about homosexuality on? If you are like most of the southern baptists I see on a regular basis, you're relying on what the little old lady who spent her life as a housewife to an abusive god fearing drunkard of a husband.

You stated that homosexuals are prone to being a nudist. If this is what you cosider to be an intelligent remark, it is no wonder the church is the number one reason why this country is growing more like you every day. The resemblance is often rewferred to as ignorance. You are pointing out religions supposed role in discouraging bad behavior. Of course it was god that gave them the right to do this in a non-christian country, correct? Who gave you the right to decide which certain behavior must be disallowed?

unfair treatment of a person or group on the basis of prejudice is the definition of discrimination. The predudice your religion uses is the disapproval of homosexual behavior. The unfair treatment is denying them the same rights you claim to have for yourself. Marriage, insurance coverage for their spouse, legal status when filing a federal tax return, ect. I find it interesting that fighting for the equal rights of all people is seen as hatred to you.

You atated that...But society must have standards and values if it will stand the test of time. Of course you are incapable of determining what these standards and values are and must rely on the suggestions of 2000 year old goat herders who sacrificed animals and their own children to make themselves better people, correct. The most voilent book ever printed is the bible and you feel that America should base our laws on a book you can't understand and probably haven't read.

You stated that...America's values and its society has certainly declined over the years and the rise of homosexuality is one example of this. Please explain to all of us how many years of study you have put into coming to the conclusion that homosexuality is an example of declining values. please remember that your values have nothing to do with anyone but yourself. Your rights end right where your nose ends. Just because you and your fellow bigots feel you have the right to stick that nose into anyone's house or bedroom doesn't make it so.

You suggested that...I Dont get you started because you can bash with the best of them. I suggest that you take your playground mentality back to the swing set where it belongs. If you need an invitation to start then by god here it is, STRAT, START, START, PLEASE BY ALL MEANS START.

Your christian hatred is quite becoming and just about the only thing you have isn't it? I know it bothers you that you lack the ability to think for yourself. I know it bothers you that you have to ask your preacher or sunday school teacher what you opinion on everything is. You don't know me and yet you have no problem judging me and assinging labels. Labels are what is important to you in that, you lack the ability to see passed a sticker that say...Hi I'm an atheist or High I'm a liberal, or High I am a hate filled weak minded individual who can't see how ignorant I am. That is the one I am sure you personally wear.

You suggested that I...Try learning some principled, and character-building structure to your life and not just some anything-goes approach. You might find it enlightening. I tried the holier thou approach to life that defines who and what you are. I found it lacking just as I find your childish ranting to be.

You stated...There is usually an underlying event or circumstance or trauma in that persons life that led them into this lifestyle. Again, how many years have you spent studying homosexuals? I assume you get all your information from religious sites and It never fails to amaze me how many people when seeking information, go to the least qualified people for it. I have seen some of the fundamentalist, evangelical sites who claim to be able to cure homosexuality. They are usally accompanied by a recruiting poster for the Army of God. I have to ask, are you related to anyone in the Westboro Baptist Church or are you just inspired by their level of hatred for homosexuals? Are you scheduled to attend the next funeral for a fallen American soldier to profess you love of America?

Nothing you state can be found anywhere but the bible and hoilier than thou religious sites. There is nothing to support your hateful attacks on people you don't even know to be found anywhere but your church. How many years did the little old lady teaching your sunday school spend studying human sexuality? How many years have you devoted to this study? How many homosexuals do you personally know? My guess is the answer to all three questions is none. How then do you come to the conclusion that the best way to learn about any subject is to ignore it.

No sir very few people are born idiots as religious hatred is something that must be learned. It will be easy for you to disprove this to me. Simply explain why the less educated a state is the more religious that state is. The more educated the people in a state are the less religious they are. Conclusion, religion either makes people stupid or relies on the stupid to expand.

No disrespect to the christians and other religious people who stop by here. I figure the only way to deal with a mental neanderthal is with a club to the empty cranial cavity.


Stump Parrish profile image

Stump Parrish 5 years ago from Don't have a clue, I'm lost.

braudBoy, As much fun as it is trading insults with you I am more interested in having an intelligent conversation. As you are ill eqquipped for a battle of wits or intelligent conversation, I will simplyattempt to ignore your comments. This is not my hub or yours and that means it's not the place for this.

The fact that you don't or can't understand theat the phrase, all men are created equal doesn't include an exemption for your personal dislike of someone, leaves no doubt that you will go to your grave with that smug feeling of superiority, all christians who use the bible to spread their person feelings of hate, need to get thru the day. Please excuse me but I have an appointment at my local nudist colony and I need a bath before I go. I need to wash the foulness I feel every time I have a conversation with a bigot such as yourself.


braudboy profile image

braudboy 5 years ago from Long Beach, MS

Stump- your comprehension is lacking and so your resort to insults. I am not a bigot, just a supporter of society's right to uphold some decency in the regulation of certain behaviors that do not represent society's values. There is no bigotry in this at all. Only a lame attempt by the weak-minded such as yourself who have no real arguement to support such vile behavior, so they instead insist they are a gender of people who must be accepted. NO! They are not a separate gender. These are men and women who have veered off into depraved activity. Now, all society is saying is this. Those who choose to continue in their gay activity can certainly do so. However, Society reserves the right to not recognize their behavior as acceptable. Certainly society reserves the right to uphold the definition of marriage to what it has always stood for. The union of one man and one woman.


braudboy profile image

braudboy 5 years ago from Long Beach, MS

Another way to illustrate my point is as follows: In reference to this hub, society would be wrong to prohibit a black man from using the public facilities. However, society does have a right to prohibit an activity such as smoking or public nudity,or whatever, at these public facilities. There is a difference here. Sexual activity is an activity and is not a class of people. Concerning gays, they have tried to claim ground as a class of people to manipulate the arguement. But their claims ring hollow as they only want this exception when it comes to marriage. The marriage definition is as unbiased as any societal contract can be. It is the union of one man and one woman.


Stump Parrish profile image

Stump Parrish 5 years ago from Don't have a clue, I'm lost.

and again you base this belief on what? You support your right to condemn anything you dont understand or personally like. You believe you know what is best for anyone and everyone. I have no arguement you say. I find it intersting that you can dismiss the thoughts and feelings of every homosexual who ever discussed their homosexuality in favor of what again. Oh yea, the opinions of those who have never done the least bit of investigation. Someone you know told you how and what to think and being unable to do so for yourself, you went along with it. How many other subjects that you personally know nothing about are you an expert in? You and your church do not make up all of society nor have you been tasked with protecting it. Who convinced you that you get to determine what accweptable behavior for other actually is? WTF gives you the right to tell me or others how to live their lives?Nothing but a fantasy book you may omay not have read. A holier than thou attitude does not qualify you to be judge, jury and executioner. No matter how much you and your church like to think it does. You and those like you are what is keeping this country stupid and ignorant. Since you lack the ability to uaccept reality, you seek to change everyone elses reality to suit the one you have created to make you feel better about your lack of understanding. Your bible has nothing to do with the laws of this country.Your bible is the only place you will find condemnation of homosexuality. You act as if every thinking person alive should give up their right to think and reason to suit the paganistic ramblings of 2000 year old goat herders. Try following the examples and teachingof your christ. Oh that's right, christians don't have to do this since they claim to be christians. Others are forced to live by the words of your christ but not you, correct?


Stump Parrish profile image

Stump Parrish 5 years ago from Don't have a clue, I'm lost.

Hhy do you keep using examples of public activities to make your point about what people do in private? I suppose you also feel society has the right to decide I can't smoke in my home. correct? Try using something relevant to the issue to illistrate your point about a private activity. How does it harm society for two homosexcuals to marry? What pain and anguish will this cause you? It doesn't affect you at all unless you tkae your tender sensablities in to account. Howw do you know that marriage has always been one man and one woman? Have you studied aceint civilazations or are you simply repeating the mantra you have been brainwashed with?


braudboy profile image

braudboy 5 years ago from Long Beach, MS

Stump- you do not even understand the debate here? Does someon have to dress you each morning??? We are not talking about what people do in private. I have no problem with what goes on in private. This discussion, as I understood it, is about the gay movement demanding a place of honor in the public square. It is about them demandind society changing the long-stan ding and honorable definition of marriage. It is about society holding its ground to determine what is decent and right. You might like living in anarchy where anything goes, but that is not America. We have laws and we have societal guidelines as is the right of that society. ...and you talk out of both sides of your mouth when you discount the bible and then say to follow the teachings of Jesus. You do realize that the bible IS the teachings of Jesus. DO you want to know what the bible says about homosexuality??? I have not brought up the bible, but if you wish to discuss what the bible has to say on this subject, we can. I have not discussed the extent of my knowledge on this subject, nor have you, but you assume I have none. You are wrong as you are about many things, judging by your comments. There have been somewhere in the neighborhood of 35 states that have put homosexuality on the ballot to get the peoples opinion on the matter. Guess what, dumb ass....it was defeated 100% of the time. So what else you got... I am getting annoyed with your ignorance and your attitude when I express an opinion that differs fromj yours. Societies around the world and from as far back as the beginning of time have rejected this behavior as normal. Sorry!


Stump Parrish profile image

Stump Parrish 5 years ago from Don't have a clue, I'm lost.

I don't dress, I am a straight nudist fighting for gay nudists right everywhere. Two gays decide to get married in a private wedding and you have no problem with this, Good we are making progress. Now repeat after me. I will not be a bigot, I will not be a bigot. Now don't you feel better.

Slavery was a long standing and honorable practice also. Why were we permitted to change this?

Yes we have laws in this country and you are confusing them with the bible. Nothing in the laws of this country state that marriage is between a man and a women.

Please by all means share your vast wealth of knowledge in a book that has nothing to do with our countries laws if you must. I knew we would get to the basis of your arguement eventually.

Right after you explain what the bible states about homosexuality please explain what it says about eating pork, wearing 50% cotton t-shirts, eating shellfish, and planting a backyard garden.

Try explaining what your book says about how a husband should treat his bride if he discovers she isn't a virgin on their wedding night.

When you are done , explain why you feel it's ok to ignore these abominations and yet we must obey the one that deals with the object of your bigotry and hatred.

In case you misplaced your bible, the first five things I posted are all abominations and the proper course of action for the new husband, according to your bible is to kill his wife.

Guess what dumb ass the people do not make the laws in acountry that is a republic. That only works in a democracy. Do you know the difference and if so, why doesn't the pledge say, and to the democracy for which it stands. The fact that bigots are in the majority does not give them the right to legalize bigotry.

How many societies since the beginning of time have you studied and for how long. It's more likely that you got your information from another uneducated bigot and consider it to be gospel.

Have a nice day revelling in your ignorance and remember...Any formal attack on ignorance is bound to fail because the masses are always ready to defend their most precious possession – their ignorance.


braudboy profile image

braudboy 5 years ago from Long Beach, MS

Guess what dumb ass....the lawmakers are elected by the people. We have elections to find out what these people stand for and decide if we want to vote for them. You are a true idiot. And you are sold out for this non-sense called homosexuality. Marriage is a public institution where society recognizes the union of a new family. There is nothing private about what the gay movement is attempting. They are trying to force their abnormal ways on society and are attempting to re-write the principles and morals of the society. I am no more a bigot for not agreeing with homosexual behavior than you are for being hateful of christians. Your stupidity is astounding. You are totally an idiot if you do not realize that marriage is most certainly defined as the union of one man and one woman. If this was not the case, there would be no arguement. Gays would just get married. Wow! Did you recently bump your head????


jreuter profile image

jreuter 5 years ago from Portland, Oregon

The way I see it, everyone has the right to marry in the way in which "marriage" is defined. However, many go one step further, and want to redefine the very institution. Homosexuality is no more a civil rights issue than is bestiality, incest or "intergenerational relationships."

"But wait," you may say, "that stuff is really perverted!" And I agree, but what may seem perverse by today's standards, will eventually become more and more acceptable by society, I guarantee it. By redefining marriage and perverting both human design and God's standard, we are merely giving way to greater and greater perversions. The arguments being used for the acceptance of homosexuality in today's society are the EXACT same arguments being used by those who would have sex with close relatives, animals, children, corpses, etc. etc. They too argue that they were "born that way," and that it is their right to engage in whatever sexual action they deem normal, as long as no one is hurt.

On a related note, contrary to popular, and utterly erroneous beliefs, there is no "gay gene," nor does science support the assertion that homosexuals are born (and it is hardly surprising that when this theory was first presented in the 90's, every magazine in the country had it plastered on it's cover, whereas we now hear very little about it. The reason for this is simple- it's not factual).

The problem here is that when we allow our culture to determine morality, we will inevitably get it wrong. There is a very valid reason why God has revealed himself through the scriptures. Left to our own leanings and judgments, humans are woefully inadequate in determining truth and morality. This has nothing to do with bigotry, or hatred, or prejudice. Rather, Americans are being asked (or rather commanded, threatened, and coerced) to accept a lifestyle that is neither healthy, natural, or genetically predisposed. Christians need to extend love, patience, and understanding towards ALL, whether they be homosexuals or not, but by accepting and encouraging a lifestyle that is defined as sinful by Christ himself, we are helping no one.

There IS freedom from the homosexual lifestyle, but only Christ can give it. Christians who fail to realize this are merely encouraging one's bondage to sin, and expediting society's moral decline.


braudboy profile image

braudboy 5 years ago from Long Beach, MS

Amen, jreuter!!!


braudboy profile image

braudboy 5 years ago from Long Beach, MS

"Marriage is a human right, not a heterosexual priviledge". Well, habueld, you are partially right. You see, marriage is available to all in America....but it also has a definition. This definition is as follows:

The union of one man and one woman. There are also a few other constraints. You must be of age, not closely related, and probably a few others. So, for the most part, marriage is available to all. Isnt that good news....no discrimination at all!


habueld profile image

habueld 5 years ago from Riverside, CA Author

You know braudboy, I use to be define as three-fifths human by the constitution of the Unites States.


Stump Parrish profile image

Stump Parrish 5 years ago from Don't have a clue, I'm lost.

habueld, many in the south still long for the days when it was accepted that owning blacks was considered to be their god given right.

The religious definition of marriage has nothing to do with the leagal definition of it. Some will never admit that they aren't entitlted to special rights based on their beliefs. It will soon be legal in all 50 states for homosexuals to be considered human whether the church admits this or not.


braudboy profile image

braudboy 5 years ago from Long Beach, MS

habueld- you were never defined as three-fifths human by the constitution. Your ancestors might have been. Slavery was over 150 years ago. But, again you try to assign some classification for homosexual behavior. Behavior does not qualify you as a class of people. Society has and always will be able to regulate and prohibit certain behaviors for the good of society. It is why we have laws concerning smoking, nudity, noise ordinances, driving laws, etc, etc, etc. You bring the discussion where it does not belong. These are men and women and nothing more or less. They are choosing a lifestyle or behavior and they deserve no more consideration than this; "does society benefit from this or is society harmed by this". But what is really at stake is this. I dont think society really cares about the private foolishness of its citizens. There will always be those who deviate from the norm. Where the problem comes in is that this "gay" movement has forced society into a corner in attempting to promote their deviant ways as normal and are demanding that society recognize this insanity as sane. Common sense and common decency demands otherwise and the citizens of our society have responded by refusing their requests. ( at least to this point).


braudboy profile image

braudboy 5 years ago from Long Beach, MS

It is like this. Civil rights are mainly concerning who a person is....such as your gender (a female), or your ethnicity (black, asian, etc). It is not about what a person does....such as engage in homosexual activity. Society is wrong to discriminate against who a person is, but society has always and will always have a say in what a person does.


braudboy profile image

braudboy 5 years ago from Long Beach, MS

Here is a question for all of those who believe the lie that homosexuals are born this way and thus are a separate gender than male and female. In other words, the homosexual arguement is that this is not just males and females choosing an alternate sexual pattern, but are a distinct and separate gender that are born into this predicament.

Here goes the question..... If this is what you truly believe, do we not need to push for society to provide a third bathroom choice in public areas? I mean if we are to believe that they are a separate classification, we must insist they have separate bathrooms. We certainly dont allow men to frequent the ladies room or visa versa, so how do we allow a homosexual man to frequent the mens room, where, since he is born this way, could become sexually aroused. After all, homosexuals are demanding their civil rights in marriage, but we should not stop here. They cannot just have their insanity in one area (marriage) without receiving it in all areas.

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