The George Zimmerman Trial Legalities

As you know, George Zimmerman, turned himself into authorities in Florida and has appeared in front of judge and has been charged with 2nd degree murder of Trayvon Martin. But before everyone calms down and returns to their everyday life, like the OJ Simpson case, this will be tried in the public opinion as the trial begins in late May.

Yet, ALREADY, prominent attorney's, both prosecutors and defenders, share a common thread of agreement about the information the DA filed to prosecute him. That is, the charge of 2nd degree murder will not hold unless there is more. The information filed by the DA was threadbare of facts, which are generally included to support the charge. Some think, the DA, who is up for re-election in Florida, is doing a public relations bit, knowing full well, if nothing is done, she will not get re-elected. DA's frequently over charge for a crime when evidence is less than good in order to negotiate a lesser charge in a deal, such as, manslaughter. Florida's law on self defense complicates this further because the DA has to prove that Zimmerman did not have just reason to think his life was in danger, which is not easy.

The DA has said no racial slurs were used. It is not a hate crime as the media and others have been pounding away at for 40 days. Florida is a very open discovery state, where both sides exchange evidence. It is not a crime to call one an "asshole" or "punk", in fact, all races use there terms frequently. The whole case stems on the what happened "just before" the struggle began, who did what first. The DA has a problem because there are no witnesses to that, only during the struggle and some time before it. Did Trayvon instigate it by confronting Zimmerman or did Zimmerman make first contact? We know what happened after this and slightly before it. It is only a short period of time- seconds, but crucial seconds as to who started the physical contact.

Many legal experts think the DA does NOT have a slam dunk case at all and the defense actually has it easier because much of the evidence has been in the public arena for some time and unless the DA has evidence they have not disclosed (any eyewitness to the encounter) some legal experts think Zimmerman might get an acquittal for lack of proof.

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Attikos profile image

Attikos 4 years ago from East Cackalacky

We should have more information later. The initial blizzard of it turned out to be largely falsified for political reasons, so we have to be skeptical of what may come. That being said, so far there is no public evidence that would support a conviction.

What the prosecutor appears to be doing is trying to keep the case in the State of Florida, which is to say to keep Zimmerman out of Eric Holder's hands. She has to play to the political lynch mob to do it. That could explain his direct discussions with her prior to the announcement of the charge, her remarks at her press conference, and the nature of the charge itself. If so, it means she herself knows this is unlikely to result in a conviction.

We shall see. This case has more twists than a pretzel.


perrya profile image

perrya 4 years ago Author

So true!


lifelovemystery profile image

lifelovemystery 4 years ago from Houston, TX

The media has allowed individuals like Sharpton and Jackson to stir up dissent. They have given air time to the NBPP and their call for the kidnapping and death of George Zimmerman. There has been no repercussion for this felonious behavior.

Many black on white crimes have been committed since these two hijacked the story as a matter of race baiting. Blacks are using Trayvon's death as an excuse to act out and hurt people.

Where is the outrage from the black community for this behavior?

Where is the media?

Why don't they care?

I would like to see Jackson and Sharpton held accountable. They are not contributing in any positive way and they never have.


perrya profile image

perrya 4 years ago Author

You are totally correct. They are stirring up for their own personal reasons.


quickvue 4 years ago

A tiger chases a deer in a protected park. The deer outruns the tiger. Tiger gives up chase but deer doubles back and attacks tiger kicking his behind. the tiger takes out his 9 mm (teeth and claws) and kills deer in the heat of the struggle... Park rangers arrive and see tiger with supposedly hoof marks on the back of his head and an antler has broken the tiger's nose. tiger's tail still entact. park ranger do not remove tiger from park. Deer is tagged and bagged. deer had only a bag of acorns and arizona ice tea on him.. Bambi is still waiting for his brother to bring him the acorns... This scenario makes no sense right. Zimmerman is the tiger and Trayvon is the deer.. Doesn't take a genius to figure this one out. Just doesn't make sense.... I smell a rat...


Attikos profile image

Attikos 4 years ago from East Cackalacky

Holder is now trying another angle to get Zimmerman into his clutches in time to use him as a political sacrifice before the election. He has ordered the FBI to find a way to bring federal hate crime charges despite the fact the Florida trial is already underway, and forensic evidence now introduced, evidence the media refused to report when it was trying to whip up a public frenzy over the affair, adds yet more credence to Zimmerman's side of the story.


perrya profile image

perrya 4 years ago Author

So far, the evidence seems to indicate that was not a hate crime.


quickvue 4 years ago

Attikos:

Do you actually believe Zimmerman is innocent? We should be asking why Zimmerman was getting his you know what kicked. If I was being followed by a stranger with a gun I would fight to.. I think Trayvon was fighting for his life and hence the injuries on Zimmerman.. Too bad Trayvon did not knock him out. What about Trayvon's rights? What did Trayvon do wrong? What was his crime?

Zimmerman is responsible and should be found guilty of manslaughter and if it is a hate crime then so be it... Zimmerman should have stayed in the car... I have no sympathy for him.. First he said on the 911 that is was a black male in his late teens then when he tried to apologize in court he said he thought Trayvon was a couple of years younger than him. I bet if a black man was following your son you would raise holy hell. Zimmerman is lying but one thing is true and I believe one on one Trayvon was whipping him.. Too bad Trayvon didn't have a gun..........I am anxious to see how this turns out... How can you stand your ground when you are the one initiating the confrontation.. Lord have mercy on us all. So I guess Trayvon's girlfriend is lying to.... LOL..... This is a joke.....


Attikos profile image

Attikos 4 years ago from East Cackalacky

Quickvue, all that "I think" and "I believe" foundation for your perspective is well and good, but it's projection rather than fact. In America, defendants can't be required to prove their innocence in order to defeat charges. It's the other way around: the prosecution has to prove its case. So far, the weight of the evidence made public supports Zimmerman's story, not your POV. You can ridicule those who don't agree with you to your heart's content, but that has no effect on the truth, it only shows your position can't be defended on its own merits. Sorry, but I think you're wrong.


perrya profile image

perrya 4 years ago Author

well, said Atikos!


quickvue 4 years ago

Hmmm to both Atikos and Perrya I notice that you all both seem to be of the lighter hue. How does one look suspicious? What made Martin look suspicious. If it had been your child returning from the store lying face down dead what would you have done? BOO HOO...... Martin ran... Apparently you two lack acumen to see the picture clearly... I am saying the evidence is clearly there against Zimmerman.. Did you not read my scenario of the tiger and the deer? Have you ever been black before and have to deal with the po po? What evidence? If Martin was beating the hell out of Zimmerman he should have. I would have defended myself to. Tell Me what was Martin's crime? What did he do wrong? Zimmerman created this situation and a blind man on crack will have enough sense to realize this. "These assholes always get away".. He's running. We don't need you to do that." Zimmerman should be charged. This was a senseless killing. And I guess your projections are facts? I am mad as hell because this could have been my son and It would have taken 10,000 angels in heaven to keep me from going "Color Purple" on Zimmerman.. And Mr. Attikos what is Zimmerman's credence? We always say in my part of the "hood" don't start nothing and there wouldn't be nothing. Trayvon was the one standing his ground. I believe Zimmerman should get a trail but what is fair about it? He took a teenager's life. I am mad as hell. As a military member I wonder sometimes about this justice system we had. I do believe if Trayvon had been white and Zimmerman black then Zimmerman would have been immediately arrest. The Sanford police department needs and enema. Martin had smoked a joint.. Big Deal.. I will say this if Zimmerman is charge I will not shed a tear. Maybe next time the coward would stay in his car......Too bad Martin did not have a knife or something on him to defend himself.. Never heard of anyone winning a fight against a 9mm armed only with skittles and Arizona ice tea. Have you? Good day fellows and may justice prevail.. don't let your kids grow up and go to a 7-eleven store and buy skittles and ice tea.. And please don't let them wear a hoodie. And better yet don't let them live in a gated community... Zimmerman is responsible. You cannot claim self-defense when you are the aggressor... Martin ran................


Attikos profile image

Attikos 4 years ago from East Cackalacky

Quickvue, may your anger lead you out of the night of prejudice and into daylight of truth. Good luck.


perrya profile image

perrya 4 years ago Author

Actually, neither committed a crime until the 90 seconds when both were face to face caused by either Z or T. It is not against the law to follow a person, it is not against the law to walk thru an area a night. Z had a license to carry a weapon, and so on......


quickvue 4 years ago

Perrya: you just don't get it do you.. Am I and a few other sane persons on here get it. Ok let me go old school on you. How does a boxer keep from getting hit in the nose in a boxing match? Answer: Don't get into the ring.. duh... If you are walking and I started following you (please remember I am black) would you be nervous? You would probably pee in your pants! Following someone for no reason can be taken as stalking or harassment. Would you mind if I follow you with my hoodie on? Can I please? Neighborhood watch people are not to suppose to carry firearms. They report suspicious activities. What was Travyvon doing wrong? Zimmerman was an idiot plain and simple and he should pay for his actions. He was not the po po (that is ghetto talk for the police), and had no right to question Trayon. He called and he should have stayed in his car. By that time Trayon would have been at the house watching the game and enjoying those dangerous items he had on him.. what was it? Oh yes! Ice tea and Skittles... I woud have to ask you your sentiments toward black folks? I am getting a little suspicious of you.. So why then are you defending Zimmerman. Stick with the facts and come to the light....That is what I did........


perrya profile image

perrya 4 years ago Author

quickvue, you have been drinking spiked cool-aid.No, I would not pee in my pants if you followed me, I would just continue on unless it was obvious you were gaining on me, which would indicate danger-maybe., still, stalking is repeated following and hunting someone, this was a first time event-not stalking at all. Ditto for harassment, which is the same definition-repeated.

None of this matters, anyway, because it did happen and it comes down to the 90 seconds and who confronted first. It is that simple.


Jimmy771 profile image

Jimmy771 4 years ago

Things might have been different if he had not been wearing a hoodie, in Florida, in the Spring. Obviously he was up to no good.


perrya profile image

perrya 4 years ago Author

I doubt it.Hoodie had little to do with it.


Jimmy771 profile image

Jimmy771 4 years ago

Ok. If he had a ski mask on in August, would that be enough? Are you worried about quickvue snapping at you again? Come on.


quickvue 4 years ago

Jimmy,Jimmy,jimmy! You know what happens when someone repeat your name three times? That means you are about to get corrected.. Like when Jesus said Mary, Mary, Mary, why you worry about the meticulous things.. Martha got it right. She was listening to the Lord. If you could, would and should read, your man Zimmerman said it was raining. Trayvon told his girlfriend he took shelter by the clubhouse because of the rain. I have a Hoodie and when it rains I put my hoodie up. Second, get your seasons right. Spring is in around March 20. See you starting off wrong. And my friend you said "Things might have been different if he had not been wearing a hoodie, in Florida, the Spring. Obviously he was up to no good". That was the most puerile and ignorant rationale I have seen posted on here thus far. Are you assuming Trayvon was up to no good. So he went down to the 7-11 store and bought his weapons, skittles and Arizona ice tea. Proceeded back home in a gated community and took shelter out the rain and put his hoodie on. Hmmmmmmmmmmm still haven't got to the point where he was up to no good. If Trayvon wanted to wear a pink mini skirt and some go go boots that is his right. We still live in the US where we have liberties as long as they do not infringe upon others. I have a hoodies (acutually the military gave me one) so when I wear them am I up to no good? Kim Kardashian had flour thrown on her and the man was arrested. Trayvon got killed and no arrest. Unbelievable! Mr. Jimmy I am going to give you some advice: "It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt. Silence is golden. I want to paint you gold. I feel sorry for the grieving mother who lost her son and my anger is kindled everytime I read these idiotic comments saying Zimmerman is innocent. Jimmy you look black to me but I know you do not wear hoodies but you are black. So now it is you that is walking from the 7-11 store that nite in the nice town (lol) of Sanford. Zimmerman sees you walking thru the gated community. And we know the rest of the story. Think about what you say before you say it... Just giving a brother some friendly advice...


quickvue 4 years ago

ATTikos: And may you see the light at the end of the tunnel. Just hope and pray it is not an oncoming train. The Good Book says there is a time and season for every thing. God also says to be angry but sin not. I am angry because a young man's life was ended unecessarily. I value life. Zimmerman had no right to chase after Trayvon. If he had left the kid alone we would not be having this conversation. Sorry you feel that I am prejudice? Do you like black people? Have you ever called them names? Do you tolerate your friends that called them names? Do some soul searching yourself. It is hard to throw stones when you live in a glass house. As we say in the hood you got me twisted......


quickvue 4 years ago

Perrya: I am saving you for last because you are the weakest link. Your approach is weak, your defense is weak. Just weak! And what is with you with those 90 seconds? How about the 4 minutes before we get to the who throw the first lick confrontation piece of crap rhetoric you so vaguely purport. Let it rest. Remember that Youtube video where the skinny kid bullied the fat kid in Australia and then the fat kid got tired and picked him up and body slam him.. If you want me to I can send you the link. When you unecessarily provoke someone and they start kicking your tail you cannot claim self defense...You started the fight. You are responsible. Undoubtedly you are a Zimmerman supported just like Nicodemus was a secret disciple. Say what you mean and mean what you say. Your arguments are weak. End of discussion.. And for your info we spell it kool-aide over here in the Hood...


Attikos profile image

Attikos 4 years ago from East Cackalacky

Zimmerman had a legal right to keep an eye on his neighborhood, and to act accordingly. The evidence so far is that he didn't assault Martin, Martin assaulted him, at which point his status was transformed into one of self-defense. What you are arguing for, Quickvue, is criminalization of Zimmerman's behavior and a pass for Martin's on the basis (as shown in your previous posts) of skin color, which is to say you are supporting institution in the law of racial discrimination. Whether or not that view stems from racism or is merely a political tactic during this campaign season is something only you know, your convoluted argument is proof enough your answer to the question could not be relied upon, and so I won't bother to ask it. My own belief is that racial discrimination has no place in a law that claims to serve justice for individuals rather than privilege for classes, and so that suffices to explain my position.


Jimmy771 profile image

Jimmy771 4 years ago

Quickvue, it's comforting to know that so many black Americans now support the tactics of the KKK. I've always thought deciding a person's guilt outside of court and wanting to kill them in the streets was a bad thing.


perrya profile image

perrya 4 years ago Author

what a crazy discussion filled with emotion and to heck with black letter law. That IS the problem regarding THIS case. As I said, if it is determined that Z threw the first blow, Z will not have a self defense issue even it is shown T was beating him up because Z started it. If T started it, Z is innocent, regardless of the him following T, the rain, the hoodie, the skin color, the gun. This is really black and white.


Charlotte 4 years ago

quickvue,

Maybe Zimmerman is guilty, but that is not for a mob incited by the likes of Al Sharpton, or Jesse Jackson to determine! Another thing, how long will we cuddle to this black mentality, that also has young wanna be whites in it, cuddle their gang-banging and petty crimes like shop lifting, street mugging, and the cary of weapons without any thought to the innocent life it may snuff out? We see it time and time again where a bullet goes through to hit some innocent kid while they are trying to do their homework or some other every day thing of civility. I am not making this up, there is an alarming amount of violence from the black community,and no one will address this for fear of people like Jesse Jackson getting ion their case!


perrya profile image

perrya 4 years ago Author

Some good points charlotte. The "gangsta" culture is not a good one to promote on any tween or teen, but it is everywhere and nestled many times in rap music. just saying.


quickvue 4 years ago

Jimmy, Jimmy, Jimmy: Well, I am not one of those blacks that support the KKK so you are barking up the wrong tree. Neither do I agree with the eye for an eye and tooth for a tooth mentality of the Black Panther Party. Neither am I in cahoots with Jesse Jackson or Sharpton. You said yourself it is obviously he(Trayon) was up to no good. I need you to tell me what it is that he was up to no good that rainy nite not in the spring. When you get that info send that "ghetto pigeon" with the message. you seem out of contact with reality. You all purport and say innocent until proven guilty. Ok then why is Trayvon guilty?


quickvue 4 years ago

Perrya: Again you have proven me correct. You are the weakest link. I can prove it. It seems ok for Zimmerman to pursue Trayon on the so called "suspicious" theory. The problem started with Zimmerman. The problem that nite was Zimmerman. The problem is Zimmerman. But if the idiotic Sanford police had done their job maybe is would not be an emotional discussion. So what you are doing by your irrational thinking is this: If P(Perrya) picks a fight with Q(Quickvue) for no reason because I look suspicious and Q kicks your behind then P pulls out a gun and shoots me because he is a wussy how then is it Q's fault if he never initiated the conflict in the first place. duh.....You need to reread that stand your ground law in backwards Florida. Zimmerman was not hemmed into a corner. Martin's girlfriend said Trayon said to Zimmerman "why are you following me?" If she is telling the true what say you to that. Did Trayvon perceived Zimmerman as a threat? I say yes. Trayvon stood his ground. It is black and white. Perception here is the problem... duh....


quickvue 4 years ago

Attikos:

I agree with you that Zimmerman had the right to keep an eye on his neighbor but i beg to differ that he acted accordingly... NO HE DID NOT! He judged Trayon without proof( this guy looks suspicious and he is up to no good). Are you following him. Yeah! We don't need you to do that. Neighborhood watchers report suspicious activities. What was Trayvon doing wrong? No one has enllightend me of that yet? Zimmerman is not a cop but yet he acted as he was. He was not suppose to have a gun on him if he was on watch.. Major Violation. And you said he acted accordingly... Wow! I am thoroughly convinced Martin would have made it home by the time the po po got there. Zimmerman would have been looking like the fool that he is. How many times has he called 911 to report suspicious black males. Don't make me go there with the race issue. You will not win that one. I have been a victim of racial discrimination, profiling, and you name it. But I do not go around blaming all white folks for racism. I try to see my fellow man in the light of good understanding in this mad world we live in. But let us not get side stepped here. Sanford police department said the death was ultimately avoidable. Let me know why they said that.. Holla back at me yo.......


quickvue 4 years ago

Charlotte:

What makes you think Zimmerman is guilty? Just curious!

And I agree with you. The black gangsta image is doing nothing constructive for black youths. I have been recently trying to steer my younger brothers (black men) away form this gangsta image. Blacks are killing one another and this saddens me. I am not afraid to admit the truth. I say Zimmerman is responsible due to the evidence presented. Race aside he is responsible for the untimely death of young Trayvon. He should be charged with nothing more than manslaughter at the least but if new evidence conclude it was racially motivated he will fry. But I think you know deep down inside Zimmerman is guilty in the mindset at least. I think he is to. Inncoent lives destroyed because Zimmerman had to take matters into his own hands. Regardless of Trayvon's past that nite which doesn't matter to me, he was doing nothing wrong at the time. And that my friend is the bascis for my defense of Trayvon. He was doing nothing wrong at the time. NOTHING! God Bless...


quickvue 4 years ago

I have come to the realization that I must now become the Angry Black Man. (That's right! Don't let the punkass slave name fool you.) Someone has to do it, and nobody seems to be steppin' up to the plate. When I talk about angry black men, I don't mean those dumb ass brothas who are always starting shit and getting' kicked off The Real World. A real Angry Black Man (ABM) would never appear on such a show.

I'm talking about men like Marcus Garvey, Malcolm X, Denmark Vesey, Huey Newton. Men who could intelligently articulate black rage, mobilize masses of people, and most importantly, scare the hell outta whitey! Who today meets these criteria? Farrakhan has gotten mellow in his old age. The Black Israelites certainly are angry, and I'm sure they may scare a few tourists with their silly costumes and Biblical gibberish, but most New Yorkers just ignore them. I like Rev. Al Sharpton, but I don't think he really strikes fear into the hearts of white folks. A man with a perm is just not scary (This goes for you too DJ Quik!)

You can't find any ABMs in popular culture either. Rap music used to be the purest expression of black rage. Who is the angriest man in rap today? FUCKING EMINEM! There aren't any more Niggaz with Attitude, just Niggaz with Affluence. They got rich making music and movies, appearing on fuckin' Leno "showin' they teeth" and they ain't angry any more. (Except maybe for Ren, cause he can't get on Leno).

Blaxploitation films of the `70s were terrible, but they had one common theme. Pam Grier's BIG NAKED TITTIES! No, that's not it. I meant to say they were all about sticking it to da Man! Superfly, Sweet Sweetback, The Spook Who Sat By the Door. These were all films about men fighting against the system. Today what do we have? Fucking Will Smith! Will Smith, who set the movement back 20 years with his Jimmy Walker act in Wild Wild West, sunk to Stepin' Fetchit depths in The Legend of Bagger Vance. In this movie he plays a mystical caddy who shucks and jives and helps some dickless honkey get his golf swing back. What the Fuck?! What is up with these movies like Bagger and The Green Mile with magical black men who appear out of nowhere and whose sole purpose is to help white people. They won't help their own people or even themselves. I'll say it again, What the Fuck?!

This is serious shit. There is no time to be complacent. We have made some strides, but there is still injustice in the world. Racism still exists. Affordable housing and healthcare aren't available to everyone. There is slavery in the Sudan. Michael Bolton and Kenny G! Need I say more? Anger can lead to action. So, as of today, gone is the old nerdy, quiet Dirk Smile who doesn't make waves and owns Weird Al Yankovic tapes (Don't ask). This is the new Dirk who speaks out against injustice and fights the system. Ooh gotta go! Who Wants to Be a Millionaire is on!


Mark 4 years ago

Had Zimmerman’s narrative and recounting of the details of that evening been any less than 100% consistent, that’s the moment when everything would have fallen apart for him — sometime right around February 27th. The police had every reason and opportunity to document and doggedly pursue any differences they saw between Zimmerman’s initial interview and his video re-enactment the following day.

Rather than finding anything they could follow up with, what happened instead? The Sanford Police Department was unable to obtain any evidence that would allow them to press even involuntary manslaughter charges against Zimmerman. And no new evidence changed that, even as days and weeks passed.

As anyone who follows criminal justice knows, under harsh conditions and during long, station-house interviews, many people will end up confessing to crimes they didn’t even commit.

Most people are conditioned from an early age to have a bias towards telling authority figures what they want to hear.

Police have been known to take skillful advantage of this psychological blind spot to extract confessions and other incriminating information from suspects during interrogations.

Watch The Confessions on PBS. See more from FRONTLINE.

In one infamous case, four innocent men confessed to committing the same brutal rape and murder after being interrogated without legal counsel.

Even when DNA evidence exonerated them, years later, they were still not immediately released, because of the sheer weight a recorded confession carries.

Zimmerman not only didn’t confess to any sort of impropriety in his police interviews, he seems to have been 100% consistent in his statements.


Attikos profile image

Attikos 4 years ago from East Cackalacky

Zimmerman is licensed to carry a handgun, and nothing in the law prevents him from having had it on him at the time. That he followed Martin is also within the law regardless of the preferences stated by the 911 operator. It is a big assumption to say that led to the killing, but even if we assume for the sake of the point that it did, it still is not the proximate cause if Martin assaulted him, and it is the proximate cause that determines guilt. Having experienced racial discrimination, and wishing for laws that provide special considerations for racial minorities as a result of it, is utterly irrelevant to justice, and may often result in injustice. If the truth is that Martin attacked Zimmerman rather than the other way around, then depending on racial experience to accuse Zimmerman of the crime is itself racist, but more pertinently to this case it is a poor excuse for demanding injustice in the name of justice.

Puff up in that "angry black man" pose and post as much raving illogic as much as you like, Quickvue, or as much as the thread's owner will tolerate. It has nothing to do with the facts, the law, the truth, or justice, it has only to do with your own prejudice.


perrya profile image

perrya 4 years ago Author

Quickview- I think you misread me- if T did not initiate the confrontation during that 90 second, then, Z will be found guilty because the premise of the defense is under Florida self defense law. If T did, then, there is a good chance Z will be found either guilty of manslaughter or innocent. This seems to be the consensus of lawyers talking about this law. The DA overcharged this case, no way was this 2nd degree. They will be quite happy with manslaughter.


quickvue 4 years ago

It's not the white peoples fault they enslaved an ENTIRE race of people and used them as live stock for generations, killing them if the learned to read or write, and torturing them in public if they disobeyed!

It's not the white peoples fault that these same people once "freed" become indentured servants and had to have an entire civil movement just to be able to drink from the same water fountain and go to the same schools!

It's can't be that after generations of "breeding" an entire race of people to be physically strong, educationally challenged, and indoctrinating their culture to be ignorant that there would be any repercussions. That the school system materials these unfortunate souls must learn from are consistently lower in quality and they are forced to use older and out of date books to learn from as compared to their fair skinned counter parts. I mean, it's not like the white people have any affect on their heritage or on the culture they now have.

Seriously, everyone needs to take responsibility for their actions, and their history. If I raised a child in ignorance and blind obedience their entire life why would I expect them to be able to compete with other children when they are adults. When this is done for generations and generations the culture of the affected people change, just look the uneducated populations of any continent or cultural background. Everyone has an example of one group exploiting another to their extreme detriment.


Louis 4 years ago

Perrya,

I'm outraged by your thread. Slavery lasted in the US for about 246 years. In that time human beings were murdered, raped, tortured, degraded, mutilated, and worked to death. Families were torn apart, sold separately, killed entirely, and prevented from keeping their heritage. 38 years is about a sixth of the time these people were treated as property, held in ignorance and bondage.

So if your great grandparents, grandparents, parents, you, and your children, were subject to raping, beating, forced separation, etc. Then your children's children would have to go through years of being second class citizens, and still are at a disadvantage in wages, education, and the not to mention the fantastic inequality of your people in prison compared to the other citizens. You don't think it would sound a little offensive if someone told you to basically "Walk it off"?


Jimmy771 profile image

Jimmy771 4 years ago

Perrya,

Well, I think I'm done with this hub. You and quickvue are turning an argument over the right to self defense into a race war.


Jimmy771 profile image

Jimmy771 4 years ago

And quickvue, you should be ashamed of yourself.


Attikos profile image

Attikos 4 years ago from East Cackalacky

The chat term for it is thread hijacking. You see a lot of it starting just about this stage of every presidential election cycle. People join Internet talk rooms for that sole purpose, which is why you characteristically see it done by newbies and people posting anonymously, often by users who set up multiple accounts to create an illusion their themes enjoy more support. It's a form of propaganda, it's frequently tied directly or informally to a particular election campaign, and it's the most likely cause behind this. This has been happening ever since there have been chatrooms.


Charlotte 4 years ago

Quickvue,

You do of course realize that through the early history of mankind, slavery was the norm, not the exception. It was practiced with regularity everywhere. The reality of the African experience is that they were one of the later peoples to come under such conditions. They also spent a considerably small time, and had a considerably small percentage of their population fall into such servitutude. Why must you ignore these realities to further your agenda? The reality of your discourse is that you are saying that people were bred to be strong and resilient, yet still are not?

Also, if you are so interested in bringing this issue to bear, why do you not take your argument to the worst offenders? Why not bring your case to bear against those who imported the largest amounts of slaves, who had the largest degree of abusive treatment, and who took the longest to end their trade in human cargo? Failing to do so exposes your bias.


perrya profile image

perrya 4 years ago Author

Louis- I think your comments are valid from a historical point of view to a degree. This is 2012 and this hub is not a black history 101 lesson to revisit. We are talking only of an unfortunate accident based on ill-conceived perceptions of T and Z as each other's intent. this is not a race crime. Z even helped black kids before this happened.


Louis 4 years ago

I'm sorry if this is not an appropriate time to talk about oppression, white man.


perrya profile image

perrya 4 years ago Author

No apology needed. Not every white man oppresses blacks. The past history is just that-history. Carrying the torch of ancestors when maybe you did not even experience such things is living in the past. It is just hate based upon others. It is not your hate.


JON EWALL 4 years ago

perrya

JUSTICE hopefully will be served according to the law.One is not guilty until proven guilty by our peers.

Recent reports that the prosecutor withheld important information in discovery may indicate that Zimmerman was attacked prior to shooting the victim. The autopsy of the victim showed that pot was in his procession and that his knuckles were bruised.

The actions of the media, the President (2nd time ), Members of Congress and National Black leaders including the Black Panthers in the early stages were inappropriate and shameful. ABC and NBC admitted doctoring the early tapes to indicate that the event was a racial issue. Mr. Zimmerman appeared in court before the judge , pleaded NOT GUILTY and posted bond.

Should Mr. Zimmerman have his day in court and be found not guilty, will those who condemned him offer their apologies for their despicable and un American actions? TIME WILL TELL!

http://jon-ewall.hubpages.com/


quickvue 4 years ago

Charlotte:

Excuse me madame but I think you have me mixed up with Perrya's comment. lol... I have not commented on Slavery yet.. Go back and realize who you are reprimanding. Your message is directed toward the wrong person.....


quickvue 4 years ago

Jimmy771: I did not turn this into a race war. I just stated pure facts and gave my opinion on the Trayvon/Zimmerman dilemna. It is Perrya and Charlotte with this slave mess. And by the way I have nothing to be ashame of. It is you that should be ashame for making that stupid comment about Trayon and his hoodie. Look into the mirror my pseudo brother before you start pointing fingers.... I will not miss you...


quickvue 4 years ago

Perrya:

Let the trail settle this. All this he say, she say, they say stuff doesn't matter now.. It needs to go to court. My final take on this is that if Zimmerman had stayed in the car Trayvon would be alive to day.. That fact cannot be changed. I do not see the logic of how it is Trayvon's fault. I would have fought Zimmerman to if he was following me. Only Zimmerman, God and Trayvon know what happened that nite... But Trayvon will not live to tell his story. Sad. Zimmerman cannot call on the stand your ground law when he was the aggressor. He should have left well enough alone. If he is proven of a hate crime he will fry. If nothing else manslaughter. I bet now he wishes he had stayed in the car.....I cannot wait for this trail....And why are you alluding to slavery in this post?


Roy 4 years ago

I think Angela Corey is basking in the limelight for now but could eventually join Mike Nifong (of the Duke lacrosse team rape case fame) as a disgraced former prosecutor.

Legal experts said her afadavit charging Zimmerman with 2nd degree murder was woefully insufficient and possibly criminal.

Her investigator looked like a fool when cross-examined at the bail hearing. Her assistant was aslo unprepared at the bail hearing.

Lucky for her the law requiring public release of evidence has major exceptions so she doesn't have to release Zimmerman's police interviews.


Rusty 4 years ago

It must be that Zimmerman shot Martin because Zimmerman sold Martin a dime bag and Martin only had a nickle since he spent his money buying skittles and tea at the store.

The autopsy report shows traces of the drug THC, which is found in marijuana, in Martin's blood and urine.

What's next?

Maybe Martin was trying to hug Zimmerman and since Zimmerman was homophobic, he shot him.

BTW, when in high school there was this kid that got high and he got really paranoid and thought people were following him. To a the point of being a little on the freaked out side. So the next question is where did Martin get the drugs from? Using the stupid logic that other have about Zimmerman.

If Martin had not gotten high, he would not have had to make a munchie run, thus would still be alive.


perrya profile image

perrya 4 years ago Author

This has nothing, or not much, to do with drugs or weed. Nothing to do with slavery or black history 101.


Rusty 4 years ago

The fact is that black american males are even more likely to be homophobic than republican redneck males. So it is certainly possible that Trayvon felt he was being stalked by a homosexual. The THC in his system could also have contributed to his paranoia.


Jeff 4 years ago

Barack Obama needs this Race War to enhance his chances of re election. It doesn't matter whether its Trayvon or another future black victim, the Obama/Axelrod campaign has determined if they can set enough groups of Americans busy killing each other, Barack Obama wins re election hands down.

The proof is the linkages between the Obama Administration and the media. During the 2008 campaign when Obama told the media to ejaculate, the media gleefully replied "How many times"? See the appropriate recorded Chris "Tingles" Matthews remarks. The Media has been hands off the Obama administration for the last thirty nine months. Some of it has been due to the White House's iron fisted control of the way the Media reports on the Whitehouse, ie the reporter who filmed an in the closed fundraiser protest against Obama and released it to the public was summarily ejected from the WH PressPool, the Boston newspaper that ran an unfavorable article about Obama on the front page was summarily ejected from the WH Presspool, and lastly the WH attempt to ostracize Fox News was met with rugged resistance by the other members of the press, not because they liked Fox, but because of fear of the same thing happening to them. This was, and still is, a very Nazi Party like attempt to control the Media by the WH. Joe Goebbels, the old propagandameister, couldn't have done it better.

Then you have the dailycaller's documented relationship between the WhiteHouse and the media. The at least weekly meetings between the WhiteHouse Office Of Communications and the heavily George Soros funded website mediamatters during which they reportedly go over the WhiteHouse's current talking points and the current WhiteHouse marching orders to the media which are then disseminated and distributed to the rest of the media, the NYT, the WaPo, ABC, CBS, CNN, and NBC.

We have all been witness to the Barack Obama's close relationship to GE and to GE Chairnman Jeffrey Immelt. GE's wholly owned subsidiary during the 2008 campaign, NBC, was jokingly referred to as the "All Obama Network". After CNBC's Rick Santilli embarked on his classic anti Obama rant from the floor of the Chicago Merc in March, 2009, suggesting the people form a modern day Tea Party, Mr Santilli's later on air appearances, references, speech, and demeanor had all the semblance of an employee who had been severely warned or disciplined. Nothing has changed in that relationship even though GE has since divested itself of 51% of its ownership of NBC to Comcast. When Obama through Immelt orders NBC to jump, NBC says "How high?"

We have NBC's deliberately selective editing of the original emergency 911 tapes designed to provoke the public's anger and unrest. We now have MSNBC paid employee and commentator, known Race provocateur and instigator Al "Twana Brawley" Sharpton busily instigating and aggravating the unrest in Florida broiling around the Trayvon Martin incident. He is there at the personal behest of NBC, Jeffrey Immelt, and Barack Obama. No other conclusion can be possible. The indisputable linkage and control is there for all to see.

Yesterday saw an article from either the American Thinker or the American Spectator entitled Barack Obama: The Never Ending Black Grievance. The author described Black Grievance today as similar to a combination of the state of the divorcing wife who so hates, despises and detests the man she is leaving that nothing the hated spouse can do will ever please her and the scene from the movie "Independance Day" when the American President addresses the Alien in captivity as to what they can do to help and the Alien simply replies "Die!"]

"Forget the bread. The economy is in the toilet and unless you know someone who ponied up for a front row seat at an Obama fundraiser, it's staying there. Better together is the slogan, which means it only gets better if you stay together with (Barack Obama). And I don't mean vote for him, I mean get the hook up. Just ask Warren Buffett, economic reform crusader, billionaire class warrior and inside dealer.

But don't worry, we may not have bread, but we do have racial circuses, brought to you live with occasional commercial interruptions by every network and news site in America. Forget the bread, we've got a new OJ Simpson trial, except with the races reversed and a defendant without a whole lot of money who's already being lynched by a corrupt prosecutor looking to build a political career over his body.

The Trayvon-Zimmerman trial may not be the trial of the century, but it can strive to be the trial of the election. One of those things that reminds black voters to vote along racial solidarity lines, reminds white voters to feel guilty about how racist our white hispanic country is and distracts everyone from the economy.

The losers in this are everyone not named Barack Obama or Angela Corey, who will suddenly be the country's most famous prosecutor since Marcia Clark and the subject of adoring profiles from the media that fall just short of a tongue bath."


Charles 4 years ago

I wanna wear a "team zimmerman" shirt but then i'd be a victim of a hate crime. Then again, I'm white so it'll probably be a "wrong place/wrong time" scenario.......


Carlos 4 years ago

i'm going to be short. The obama admin. is blowing this entire story out of proportion (using media lackeys of course)in order to implement and shore up support for an unconstitutional gun control program.

they are covering up the fact that trayvon himself was a gang recruit and had pictures on his myspace posing with guns.


Charles 4 years ago

Straight vs Gay = Black vs White = ???

- Divide and conquer. Did you feel that? You are being mind controlled. Even the "Awake" are susceptible to such well laid traps.

What do you guys think will be the next major story pushed by the MSM?

- Probably Man vs Woman. Sprinkle in a little abortion here or maybe a rape there. Maybe another kidnapped little girl. That'll stir up some deep emotional energy for the vampires to feed off of.

Does anyone else feel like all these stories are just made up? Am I the only one living in the twilight zone?

- Be aware of the thoughts you let into yourself. Most of them are not your own.

The real question is.... what are we being distracted away from?


perrya profile image

perrya 4 years ago Author

The worst thing Obama did in the Trayvon case was give his support to the black side overtly knowing all along he is 50% white. As president of everyone, he should have kept his own opinion to himself and said nothing or make it not obvious he tends to think he is more black than white. I am not sure if I will vote for him again for his foreign policy.


quickvue 4 years ago

Perrya:

Jimmy771:

Attikos:

To the Zimmerman supporters I rest my case on the events as presented that we cannot deny. Along the way I will ask questions that are pertinent to the case. Fact: Zimmerman said Trayvon was suspicious. Why would you want to pursue someone that is suspicious? But Zimmerman did! "Are you following him?" Yeah! We don't need you to do that. Trayvon ran. I would have to if some stranger was following me. "These f#@king a%$holes always get away".. State of mind here. Zimmerman was going to make sure he got away. Fact: Zimmerman cannot get his story together: First he said Trayvon was in his late teens then in court when he ATTEMPTED to apologize to Trayon's family he said he thought Trayvon ws a little younger than him... Which is it? Liar, liar, pants on fire. Lie number two is evident if Trayon's girlfriend is telling the truth: She said that she heard Trayvon ask Zimmerman "why are you following me?" So if that is true then Zimmerman is lying about going back to his truck and then being attacked by Trayvon. Zimmerman kept pursuing Trayvon until he caught up with him. Fact number three: There was a fight no doubt... No one saw the begining of the fight so who attacked who first is not clear or is it? Here is where speculations come into play and scenarios created. Fact: Trayvon was doing nothing wrong at the time of the incident. Walking back home from the store. I did not know that was a crime. Speculations that have no bearing on the crime: He had traces of THC in his system, he is potrayed as a wannabee gangsta, suspended from school, empty marijuana bag found on him at school, fighting the bus driver, and blah blah blah.. All of this is irrevelant to what happened to him that nite. At the time of the encouter he was doing nothting world. NOTHING! If we should judge him on this then Zimmerman past records should be bought into play. Can I get an Amen! Hmmmmmmmmmm! You do not have the right to pursue anyone because you deem them "suspicious." You have the right to call the po po and let them handle it. But Zimmerman did not do that: Fact: If Zimmerman was acting on behalf or representing the Neighborhood Watch he violated protocol. He engaged Martin and he had a weapon. I also believe some of these Zimmerman supportes have underlying racial sentiments that they disguised with fancy rhetoric and mainstream BS. Beware of wolves in sheep clothing. I am shocked by the callous and insenitive remarks made by folks on here regarding the death of Trayvon. Unbelievable! Let the trail begin. I will love to hear what Zimmerman has to say on the stand. Fact: The Sanford Police dept. first and far most needs and ENEMA. I have no more to say on that note. Was Zimmerman so wussified that he let a youngster like Trayvon get the best of him? Fact: If Zimmerman had stayed in his car would Trayvon still be alive? I say yes. This case will further divide Americans along race lines and the use of deadly force when one percieves that their life is at stake. Zimmerman should be found guilty of at least manslaughter. I do not think he will survive in the public anymore. Maybe karma is a b@#ch.... Whatsover a man soweth that shall he also reap. Until then, the drama continues. This is Quickve signing out.....

To all those Zimmerman supporters I will rest my case on simply logic conclusions


Attikos profile image

Attikos 4 years ago from East Cackalacky

Fact and logic have little to do with that melange of supposition and projected prejudice, but thank goodness you've rested. May your argument do so in peace.


Jimmy771 profile image

Jimmy771 4 years ago

According to quickvue,

"Speculations that have no bearing on the crime: He had traces of THC in his system, he is potrayed as a wannabee gangsta, suspended from school, empty marijuana bag found on him at school, fighting the bus driver, and blah blah blah.. All of this is irrevelant to what happened to him that nite."

Well, if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, looks like a duck,...


quickvue 4 years ago

Jimmy, Jimmy, Jimmy......... I thought you had went away. Like I said before what does all this have to do with the fact that Zimmerman shot Trayvon that nite. I don't care if Trayvon had on a pink mini skirt and go go boots that nite that is his right. Tell me what was Trayon's crime? That is correct according to Quickvue. Are you a black man or not? If you are then start acting like one. Stop making yourself look like a fool here on this website. If it was your black behind walking home instead of Trayvon, Zimmerman would have busted a cap in your behind as well. Let us not get stupid on here. Due to the fact that we are on here and I have no beef with a problem but In my mind I have a name for the kind of black man you are. I think you know what I am getting at. It is folks like you that doesn't know who he is that irritates me and make me what to lose my sight of those things heavenly. Don't make me go there....... I will just refer to you as a psuedo black man. I think you get my point.....


quickvue 4 years ago

Attikos:

How am I prejudice? You on some serious stuff. I said due to the evidence of facts I use logic to express my views.. Are you blind or cannot comprehend the English language? Do you feel Zimmerman is responsible for Trayvon's death? Do you feel Trayvon cause his own demise?

If I am prejudice it is against overt stupidity and conceived bigotry. I think some of you all on here are undercover racists but that is between you and whatever god you serve. No matter which way you flip it, say it, analyze it, Zimmerman is responsible because he created the situation. So stop projecting that I am prejudice to enhance your own view points. By the way are you a Christian?


Roy 4 years ago

Quickvue,

Blacks like to make excuses to explain away all the black crime. Blacks against blacks or blacks against anyone else. They always play the 'victim' and the race-baiters like Jackson,Sharpton and and Lee come forward to say how horrible it is to be black. When the real truth is it is up to each individual-black,white or green to make their own way in the world and become either a success or a failure.


Roy 4 years ago

Do you have any race cards left in the deck?


perrya profile image

perrya 4 years ago Author

Zimmerman was indeed responsible for the accidental tragic death of Trayvon, the question is, is he guilty of an intentional crime premeditated? Or, is it in the heat of battle, it mistakenly goes off? Once the gun was exposed during the battle, by that time, both were in fear for their lives and both fought for it. Like in so many tragic movies, it goes off and one is dead. If anything, manslaughter, should self defense fail in court.


Carlos 4 years ago

Anybody with any common sense would be scared of a hooded thug in the dark. Child.....a 17 year old could abduct a white girl and repeatedly rape her, pass her around to other thugs, and then mutilate her. Would you be happy then. George Zimmerman was helping to stop this brutality.


Attikos profile image

Attikos 4 years ago from East Cackalacky

Gadfry. The thread has been overrun with trolls baiting on both sides of the issue.


quickvue 4 years ago

Perrya:

You said it was an accidental tragic death. You nor I was there. All I am saying is that Zimmerman created this drama and must be held accountable for his actions. A blind,

cripple, crazy fool can see that your 90 seconds, who threw the first punch, it's the hoodies' fault, Trayvon had pot in his system, he was a gangsta, blacks killing one another, Trayvon was suspended from school, blah blah blah does not amount to a hill of beans in my mind. You and your cohorts have yet to tell me what was Trayvon doing to warrant him being suspicious? Was it because he was a young, male and BLACK? Hmmmmmmmmm may the truth come out in court. And I agree that blacks, especially young gangsta are their worst enemies. But if I was to mention all the injustices bought upon blacks by yo folks it would not be nice. I am trying to keep from going there. It amazing me how you feel, casually so, that ok Zimmerman should not have pursued Trayvon but Trayvon should not have assaulted him.. You are too funny. But I am not laughing.. Maybe Treyvon felt threatened and tried to defend himself. Maybe he saw the gun and fought for his life. I believe if Treyvon had killed Zimmerman he would have been in jail that nite and charged. So your Alice in WonderLand conclusion does not sit well with me. Manslaughter if nothing else is what Zimmerman should get. I can give a rat's A$$ about who threw the first punch. Zimmerman should have stayed in the car. End of discussion...


quickvue 4 years ago

Carlos:

There were no fair skinned white girls out there that nite. Are you on crack? So what you are saying is that Zimmerman had no common sense. He pursued the "thug in the dark" as you refer to Trayvon. I wear a hoodie sometimes does that make me want to rape white girls. Please I am a black man and trust me white women be trying like the devil to get with me. Once you go black you don't go back...I do not regard Trayvon commiting any crime that nite. Maybe he was going to seduce the white girls with is skittles and get her drunk off his Arizona ice tea. There is not a more terrible sight than ignorance in action. You, Carlos, should stop moving...


quickvue 4 years ago

Roy:

When did I ever allude to the race card? And all blacks do not commit crime. If you read my post I agree blacks are killing one another but in this case Trayvon was doing nothing wrong. You are prejudicing the issue here. Black on Black crime is another topic.. So which one do you want to discuss. White America has not always been friendly to blacks. Please do not make me go there. You should get to know me and I promise you I will not rob, you or assault you... OOPS! Acutually I am a defender of this nation so that you can have the freedom to express your views on this website. You should thank me..


perrya profile image

perrya 4 years ago Author

@quickview-you are too emotional on this. I agree-drugs have nothing to do with this, race has nothing to do with this, clothes have nothing to do with this and the 90 second window as to who is guilty can go either way. Until there was confrontation by someone, this was a non-event. many are followed daily. Both T and Z were freaked in their own way for different reasons. Had there been no confrontation Trayvon would be alive because he would have just walked home, a Z who had followed him, would sooner or later let it be. But--one of them started the end--a court will determine it. If Z is not guilty I suspect he could be killed one day because many will perceive it as a gross injustice. That will simply be more tragedy to this accident.


quickvue 4 years ago

@perrya: Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm It is a gross injustice for Z as you called him to to escape justice. It is called accountability. You just don't get it. A young teenager life has been taken for no reason. I value life and I have no time for this mickey mouse syndrome. you darn right I am emotional on this. Mad as hell. That young man could have been my son. Zimmerman started the mess when he pursued Trayvon. Did he continue to follow him? Yes he did according to his girlfriend. So if Zimmerman stop chasing Trayvon why did his girlfriend say she heard Trayvon say "Why are you following me?" If she is telling the truth can you explain that? Lord, I cannot wait for this trail to begin. Shame on you grown men defending the actions of Zimmerman and sugar coating the situation. You do not have the right to pursue someone just because he or she appears suspicious. Try that in my neighborhood and you probably will get capped. I do not feel sorry for Zimmerman. He is wannabe cop with his own agenda and he's a liar. Trayvon's girlfriend testimony will be a strong case for the prosecution. "Why are you folowing me" I wish that had been your son Mr. Perrya and see how you would feel. Would 90 seconds really matter then. My mind is made up on this situation. If you start a confrontation then get your behind kicked then shot someone and holla self defense I would laugh at you. That is what I think happen. And how was really hollering for help on the 911 tape? Hmmmmmmmmmm this is gettting interesting. You know deep down in your help Zimmerman is guilty. Common sense will tell you that. As I said before you are the weakest link. Your arguments have no meat to them or that matter convincing rhetoric. I am getting bored with your dialogue....


perrya profile image

perrya 4 years ago Author

Ditto.....


quickvue 4 years ago

I went to bed last nite and woke up thinking about the Trayvon Martin case and all its legalities. When we have time to let our brains rest we can revitalize our thinking processes. I am refreshed. I believe a snow ball in hell has a better chance of surviving than Zimmerman has in the charge against him. He needs to be found guilty of manslaughter if not 2nd degree murder. What is also alarming is that non of the Zimmerman supporters recognize that Trayvon was talking to his girfriend right before he was shot. "Why are you following me." If this is true Zimmerman is a big fat liar trying to cover his bases. I can only imagine walking home minding one's business and see a "suspicious man" (Zimmerman) watching me... I would have ran to. Zimmerman was suspicious to Martin. Can I get a witness? So how do you Zimmerman supporters refute the phone call Trayon had with his girlfriend. This is a ridiculous case of injustice to this dead teen. Zimmerman should have stayed his coward behind in the car? You cannot stand your ground when you are the instigator and then you start getting your butt kick and claim self defense. LOL.....The idiots of the stand your ground law. And was there two shots fired that nite? How could Zimmmerman let a lanky teenager handle his like that? And why did the mystery witness name John not run out and break up the fight? This killing stinks to the high heavens.. Imagine you on your way home and a man tries to rob you and you kick his tail then he takes out a gun and kills you and claims self defense: He wins because he was in fear of his life. This is the biggest bunch of crap I have ever seen in my life since the devil first lied. I will not deter or change my mind on this matter. Zimmerman is responsible and should be held accountable. I do not care if Trayvon dropped kicked him. Zimmerman had no right to pursue someone that was apparently not committing any crime. A sad day in America. How I wish young Trayvon's unecessary death could be replace with one of these Zimmerman supporter's son and see how they would feel then. Shame on you America. Shame on you Sanford, Florida. This is a travesty of justice should Zimmerman escape. I have cancel my plans to visit Florida on the basis that I may want to wear my hoodie but I gurantee you I will have my Heat with me. I will stand my ground. Can someone please tell me what was Trayvon's crime that nite that warranted or justified his death? I am all ears. God help us all..


perrya profile image

perrya 4 years ago Author

No, go to Florida. driving across the ocean to the Keyes is an awesome, strange experience. Then you arrive at this little island where Earnest hemingway wrote a book. I can see why. So far away from everything. Ft.Lauderdale is great for its numerous canals. No, the Trayvon thing should not ruin plans, it was just a fluke.


Mark 4 years ago

Unfortunately,the girlfriend was probably a drug user too. I bet the prosecution never puts her on the stand.


perrya profile image

perrya 4 years ago Author

I agree with most of the legal experts that Trayvon's use of weed is a non-issue in this case. Even if he was high, it has little bearing on the defense and the 90 seconds.


Jim 4 years ago

I think he had a really bad case of the munchies, he thought George was a piece of fried chicken and attacked!


Aunt Jemima 4 years ago

Everyones know little Treyvon just a wanting somer skitles.


perrya profile image

perrya 4 years ago Author

Little is true if you consider 6 ft.3 short


quickvue 4 years ago

I am still following this Trayvon Martin case with the utmost interest. The more evidence that is coming to light (evidence against Zimmerman) I just have to wonder where all this will lead. Hopefully to justice. I see the Zimmermanites (followers of Zimmerman) are doing all they can to smear the image of Trayvon. From what he was wearing, the suspension thing, the thug look, gold teeth, blah blah blah.. All irrevelant to me concerning this case. Remember that poem "The Liar" by William Blake which is paraphrased by the saying "Liar, Liar pants on fire!" Someone please throw some water on Zimmerman and the Zimmermanites. Zimmerman lied from the beginning. First he knew how old Trayon in the 911 call and actually said he lost sight of the kid. In court he said he thought Trayvon was a little younger than him. Zimmerman is 28. My My.... And it gets better and do you know why? Sir Walter Scott said it best: Oh what a tangle web we weave when first we practice to decieved. Zimmerman is lying, his brother is a liar, his Daddy Zimmermanite is a liar, Joe Oliver (psuedo black man) is a liar, the Sanford Police department are a bunch of liars, Frank Taffe is a liar and the list goes on. Like I vehemently said before I do not care if Trayon was in a pink mini skirt with gold go go boots on with a grill in his mouth, he was doing nothing wrong at the time. None of the left wingers on here including Mr. Perrya have addressed this issue. May the prosecutors in this case do a thorough investigation. Trayvon had every right to be suspicous of someone chasing him in the dark. I would love to know where Zimmerman's truck was when Trayvon was shot. Zimmerman defense (and hell on that Stand your Ground crap) makes no sense to me. Why would someone running from you double back to attack you? I think Trayvon was trying to get away. As Zimmerman said "a__holes always get away". I hope and pray Zimmerman who I deemed the biggest A hole does not get away. My heart is heavy.....


Attikos profile image

Attikos 4 years ago from East Cackalacky

Politics, prejudice, and paranoia pooled produce profound phantasm.


perrya profile image

perrya 4 years ago Author

Right wingers are those who would be for Z, left wingers are for T, people like myself, are in the middle. T and Z have a right to be suspicious to one another, the conditions were ripe. There was no race involved, just suspicion. There is no evidence Z attacked first. In fact, evidence points T started it.


quickvue 4 years ago

Mr. Perrya: Please forgive my mistep on this right and left agenda. I guess I stand to the LEFT.. No, Mr. Perrya T did not start it. Z started it by chasing the young teenager. You just don't get it. Let me help you out. I say you lean towards Z. What is really sad is this middle ground stand you assert. I think you are in denial. Like I said before if it had been your son you would be raising holy hell right now. Are you serious? Let us blame T for his demise. There is not a more terrible sight than ignorance in action. T should have beat the hell out of Zimmerman for following him with a 9mm. Zimmerman story is not adding up. And those little bruises on him do not look like someone that was in a fight for his life.. Only Zimmerman and the Good Lord know exactly what happened that nite. You should be ashame of yourself. You know deep down in your heart Zimmmerman is responsible. I cannot wait for this trail. You ever heard that saying "ALL THAT IS NECESSARY FOR THE TRIUMP OF EVIL IS THAT GOOD MEN DO NOTHING?".... Are you a good man? I am beginning to doubt you are....SAD...


perrya profile image

perrya 4 years ago Author

quickvue-unlike you, I do not know with 100% certainty who started the confrontation-that 90 second period where there are no witnesses, only evidence that seems to point that Z is telling the truth. Your own racial bias is coloring your sense of justice. we agree to disagree.


quickve 4 years ago

Well Mr. Perrya like I said before you are confused. Zimmerman initiated the whole thing by following Trayvon. Regardless of who threw the first punch, Zimmerman created the whole scenario by getting out of the car. So what about the phone call Trayvon had while talking to his girlfriend? Can we ignore those facts? It seems illlogical for Trayvon to double back and attack Zimmerman. Remember Trayvon was running away from Zimmerman and Zimmerman was chasing Trayvon. I am very suspicious of Zimmerman's story. Even the lead detective wanted to file manslaughter charges against Zimmerman? Why? He didn't believe Zimmerman! I don't believe Zimmerman and you shouldn't either. Of course Zimmerman is going to say Trayon started the fight. Why? The only other witness is dead, Trayvon. Liar Liar pants on fire. There are many speculations in this case but we do know Zimmerman chased him, stalked him or whatever you want to call it.. He had no right to do that according to protocol. I want to say something to you but Jesus is whispering in my ear. LOL..... Hmmmmmmmmmmm my racial bias? No it is the truth of the presented evidence. And I will continue to disagree with you until the end of this world........


perrya profile image

perrya 4 years ago Author

The courtroom drama will focus on the 90 seconds of the confrontation-who started what. All else, despite what you think, is second rate because the defense is about stand your ground, nothing else.


quickve 4 years ago

No I disagree in any litigation all facts and time frame and scenarios should be taken into account. Like the footage of Martin at the 7-11 store. Amazing that the 7-11 clerk did not call 911 to support a suspicious black male. HE HE.. And to again how long would it have taken Mr. Lying Zimmerman to walk back to his truck if he hung up with the operator at 7:13 Pm and if the confrontation started at 7:16 he should have well been in his truck at that time. Hmmmmmmmmmmmm The courtroom drama will and should focus on the facts. Zimmerman had it out for this kid. "These assholes always get away". Zimmerman took the law into his own hands and another thing that disturbs me is that they told him to wait by the mailboxes but he said to call him when they (the police )arrive and he will tell them where he is. Hmmmmmm sounds fishy to me. Zimmerman was still looking for Trayvon. Well if you are looking for the last 90 seconds then Trayvon's girlfriend has them.. Remember he was on the phone with him. "Why are you following me?" Explain that Mr. Perrya please. If Zimmerman was headed back to his truck why did he end up south of the sidewalk? Hmmmmmmm I smell a rat here. And if he was on his way to Target why was he parked on the street? Was he lying in wait? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm..... I hope and pray this man does not escape justice. If he does it is a travesty of justice and if I ever visit Florida I will be packing my heat. All I have to do is safe I was in fear of my life. Bang...... Florida needs and enema, Zimmmerman needs an enema, the Zimmermanites need and enema, the Sanford police dept. needs and enema. I am anxious to see how this drama plays out. I believe Zimmerman knew what he was doing. Is story does not add up. You cannot claim self defense when you are the aggressor. I am a black man (fair skin) to say but I bet if I stared you down one dark nite and followed you I bet you would wet your pants. This killing is a travesty of justice. Trayvon was doing nothing wrong. I side with the prosecutors. I hope they win....


Attikos profile image

Attikos 4 years ago from East Cackalacky

You're elevating events the law defines as "cause in fact" to the status of ultimate cause. For a conviction, two tests that must be met. The jury must be convinced that both cause in fact and what is called "proximate cause" apply to the defendant. In this case, there is no evidence at all that the latter of those does. There can be no legally just conviction on these charges. Your beliefs about Zimmerman's state of mind have no bearing on the matter. They are nothing but your own opinions, and they would be thrown out of court in short order. Don't expect to get your way here. You're likely to be sorely disappointed.


perrya profile image

perrya 4 years ago Author

As I have countless times, if it is determined that Z threw the first punch, his defense using stand your ground will fail and he will be convicted of manslaughter only. If T started it, you are going to be really pissed off because Z probably will get off.


quickvue 4 years ago

I will not be solely disappointed. Zimmerman life is over. He killed an unarmed teenager. If he gets out of this (and I pray to God he doesn't) he will be looking over his shoulder for the rest of his life. Karma is nothing to play. "So as a man reap so shall he also soweth. Zimmerman cannot agrue the stand your ground statue because he intiated the confrontation. Trayvon had a right to defend himself. I wasn't there,you were not there so let us not draw long conclusions. If Zimmerman had stayed where he was suppose to be Trayvon would still be alive. Zimmerman is a liar. I hope they get him. You have no right to be harassed or followed just because you are black. Zimmerman seem to have a problem with young black males. He is a liar. And he will keep on lying. May the truth come out. What about Trayvon's rights. It is because of people like you all that this country is messed up. Even a blind man can see that Zimmerman was wrong. I cannot wait for this trail. "I don't know where this kid is." Zimmerman is lying.... I hope they get him.......


quickvue 4 years ago

I meant to say in my previous post "So as a man soweth so shall he also reap."


Attikos profile image

Attikos 4 years ago from East Cackalacky

Quickvue, the only reason Zimmerman would have to live in fear the rest of his life is if fanatic bigots with crippled reasoning abilities take the law into their own hands to hunt him down for a crime they falsely have fooled themselves into believing he committed. That would be a sin, and they would pay a price for it, if not to decent society in this life then on Judgment Day.


perrya profile image

perrya 4 years ago Author

If Z does get off, I think that will come to pass, some person will take a shot at him.


Attikos profile image

Attikos 4 years ago from East Cackalacky

It wouldn't surprise me, given the hatred being poured out upon him, much of it frankly out of a hidden political agenda rather than from moral conviction. Anyone who does that, however, should be hunted down like the animal he would be, and taken out of polite society by whatever means are necessary.

The ones who would do that would be vigilantes, and the same ones who accuse Zimmerman of that. Hypocrites.


Quickvue 4 years ago

Attikos and Perrya do not expect sympathy from me regarding Zimmerman. Amazing at what you said in your post: "The only reason Zimmerman would have to live in fear the rest of his life is if fanatic bigots with crippled reasoning abilities take the law into their own hands to hunt him down for a crime they falsely have fooled themselves into beleiving he committed." Your statement describes Zimmerman perfectly. LOL.......AS we say in the hood where I used to live you are a "HOT MESS." aND i THINK YOU have underlining anti-sentiments towards a certain group of folks. Just my opinion. And Mr. Perrya is still straddling the fence. Zimmerman is a liar who is a fanatical bigot with crippling reasoning ablilities who took the law into his own hands to hunt down Trayvon and now he wants this crime to just blow over because people are fools that accuse him of such a crime. Attikos you NEED AN ENEMA! It amazes me at all the facts against Zimmerman and you all still defend him. Zimmerman is done. He will experience the same as Trayvon experience. Fear in the face of death. I bet he poops his pants and wet himself..


Attikos profile image

Attikos 4 years ago from East Cackalacky

I neither expect nor want sympathy from you, Quickvue. I do, however, expect honesty in discussion and an IQ of at least 75 from other people on Hub Pages. It's always a disappointment when I don't get them.


perrya profile image

perrya 4 years ago Author

I straddle the fence because despite the passion and anger from many, we do not know who started the confrontation. This may be the ISSUE in your life, but for many, it is incidental, one of them started it. Think of the injustice occuring in Syria, 10000 killed. It puts this issue in perspective.


quickve 4 years ago

Mr. Perrya: You mean to tell me with all the evidence pointing against Zimmerman you are still saying it all depends on who threw the first punch? I am amazed by your disregard for an innocent life that was cut short by an overzealous wannabee mall cop. And you still say it depends on who threw the first punch. Amazing! It doesn't matter that Trayvon was not doing anything wrong at the time. Suspicious because he was black and wearing a hoodie. I wear a hoodie sometimes does that make me suspicious? I am a black male but does that make me suspicious? I have heard others say Trayvon should have politely answered Zimmerman. No he did not You do not pursue folks or follow them for no reason. I have not heard you defend Trayvon's phone call with his girlfriend. Nor have I heard you say Trayvon had a right to be where he was, walking down the street minding his business. Zimmerman is the reason for the whole incident. He is responsible. He should have stayed in the car and hence the confrontation would not have occurred. It is ok for you to defend Trayvon based on information provided. If Trayvon had went up and just started a fight with Zimmerman for no reason then my opinions would be different. Trayvon girlfriend said that Zimmerman made him nervous. She told him to run and he did. Zimmerman lied again when he said Trayvon circled his truck in a later statement but he never mentioned that in the 911 call. Another thing if Trayvon was suspicious why would you chase him? I would have stayed in the truck. Zimmerman is a liar..... End of discussion. you cannot chase someone then get into a confrontation with them then pull your weapon and shoot them then claim self defense. Florida needs and enema. If Zimmerman gets convicted I will not shed a tear. I will cry for Trayvon and his family but not for Zimmermans. They are all a bunch of LIARS.. And Zimmerman will continue to lie. Just you watch and see.. Shame on you Mr. Perrya......


perrya profile image

perrya 4 years ago Author

You are too emotionally involved in this to be balanced.The issues you feel that are germane to the case actually are not, they are ancillary ones, not the critical one with the stand your ground law.


quickve 4 years ago

Mr. Perrya: I assure I am quite balance in my rationale and I do possess acumen. I do believe in the "duck theory." I have no hatred towards Zimmerman just anger due to his actions wherein a young teenager lost his life. Let Zimmerman reap the consequences of his actions. No I am mad as hell as well as you should be. Like I said if it had been your son I guarantee you would not be straddling the fence. I do not agree with you my issues are germane to this case and not ancillary. Fact, the lead dectective wanted to charge Zimmerman with manslaughter. Can you explain that one? Corey charged him with 2nd degree murder. Maybe the prosecutors have an ace up their sleeve. I hope they do. No matter if Zimmerman did not throw the first punch I am holding him responsible. WE will disagree on this issue and that is ok... You have a blessed day..


perrya profile image

perrya 4 years ago Author

I have always said, manslaughter is the just charge 'reckless and wanton disregard for one's life". Unless there is new evidence to show this was premeditated and planned, I just don't see how the prosecution will get it.It will interesting to see it what happens.


quickvue 4 years ago

Maybe Corey knew what she was doing. Get him on some charge just as long as they get him. I do not know all the details but I agree he should be charged with at least manslaughter. If it is proven that this was a hate crime he will fry. This is getting interesting....Maybe the prosecutors know something we do not know. Corey has been in this business a long while. Maybe they have an ace up their sleeve.. Justice for Trayvon sounds good to me. I bet you Zimmerman wish he had stayed in the car now...


perrya profile image

perrya 4 years ago Author

Prosecutors often will overcharge when they feel the evidence is weak, then deal for the real charge. I mean, if they started with manslaughter, there is nowhere lower to go, not really. They have already decided it was not a hate crime, so that is not happening. I would not be surprised if they ask for a change of venue because the jury pool must be tainted.


quickvue 4 years ago

Hmmmm there are no verdicts yet, so when did they not decide it was a hate crime. Actually there has been no official trail yet. Am I missing something here? Anyway I am curious at the outcome of this trail....


quickvue 4 years ago

Mr. Perryman and all the Zimmermanites out there: latest news flash. George Zimmerman bond revoked becasue he lied to the judge.... Not old good boy George. LIAR, LIAR PANTS ON FIRE. "Oh what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to decieve. This man is a liar from hell.


quickvue 4 years ago

Oh yes, George Zimmerman's wife is also a liar. I guess I should include his mother to... Mendacious! Yes, his mother is a liar also....


perrya profile image

perrya 4 years ago Author

Quickvu is too quick to convict-the bond issue has nothing to do with trial, it does cast shadow on his veracity, but do not be shocked if the judge issues bail at a much higher rate.


Lucas 4 years ago

Spoken like a true honky.


perrya profile image

perrya 4 years ago Author

Danke.


quickvue 4 years ago

Mr. Perrya you are a trip. Why do you keep making excuses for Zimmerman. The man is a liar. I said he lied to the court. He is a Liar.. Liars do not tell the truth. They deceive, connive, avoid the truth, twist the truth, mislead, lack honesty. You make need to see a shrink. You are delusional or just outright foolish. Zimmerman cannot tell the truth. You and all the Zimmermanites will be looking quite stupid when all this is over. I bet you if Zimmerman was to intentionally run over someone with a truck and drag them downn the highway for 5 miles, get out and uriniate on the body, then back up over it for 90 seconds, then burn the body, you will still say there is not proof he committed the offense. You, Mr. Perrya is what is wrong with America. Border line and underhanded white men that pretend to stand up for justice but are just wolves in sheep clothing in the reality arena of what is wrong or right. Do you not have any integrity or probity in your soul. I would think long and hard before you open your mouth with your gainsaying tendencies. Yes I am mad as hell. Right is right and wrong is wrong. Zimmmerman is dead wrong. I do not see why people are entertaining the notion that he is not responsible. We are dealing with a case of insurmoutable stupidity. And remember I have not pulled the race call yet and trust me you do not want me to go there. The fact is that Zimmerman did profile Trayon. He put him into a category. He looks supsicious and these assholes always get away. Zimmerman took the law into his own hands and now a young lad is dead and you dim wits stand on the middle ground or just overtly defend this idiot. Are we harboring prejudices. It is you and your cohorts that are crippling the justice system here. And I am not afraid to admit that there is a black on black crime problem. Unlike you I can call it the way it is. My rhetoric is direct and realistic. I go by the facts that I have heard. You are in denial. Your attempt at rationaling this dileman is puerile in its presentation and does nothing to shed light on the present circumstance. You, Mr. Perrya, are that silent voice that speaks in psuedo and somewhat hypocritical overtone s when it is addressed what is wrong in this case. You remind me of someone who tells part the truth and mixes it with a lie. Your true agenda is hidden in your stand in the middle ground disposition that makes me suspicious of you more than I would be of the overt racist. You have been presented with overwhelming evidence that points to Zimmerman's guilt but still you make excuses that lack valadity. You are annoying in your white politeness which I find very offensive which I believe hide your truth intentions. Get a life and get a grip. Even a fool can see that Zimmerman is guilty here of creating chaos and it will not go away as it hoped it will. He is liar and he will keep on lying. I hope they nail him and make him pay for what he has done. I will not sugar coat it or skirt on the grounds of uncertainity as you do. Be careful Mr. Perrya I am watching your comments. Liar Liar pants on fire......Have a blessed day...


quickvue 4 years ago

Oh yeah, the Good Book says "Be ye angry and sin not."... And i am angry....


Jimmy771 4 years ago

It appears that Mr. Perrya now wants to block my posts, but I don't know why. Here is what I attempted to post.

Ok, Mr. Quickvue, I am tired of your nonsense. I also don't need you trying to educate me about "the hood." That has nothing to do with this case. This needs to go to trial and the facts need to come out. My biggest concern is that the people in "the hood" don't burn down their own neighborhoods if Zimmerman is found innocent. They always seem to believe that action will somehow show "the man."


Jimmy771 4 years ago

And why are you trying to block my posts? What have I done to you?


perrya profile image

perrya 4 years ago Author

What posts did I block?


Mark 4 years ago

Quickvue is an angry gay homosexual who can not accept his sexuality.


quickvue 4 years ago

@Jimmy771. Are you the psuedo black man that I converse with earlier? If so, you are still psuedo. I know you must be one of those other type of blacks that don't act uppity like us in the hood. You are a joke. I have no control over the blacks that burn stuff down in the hood because I do not resort to those tactics. Strange but kind of predictable that you see Zimmerman as being innocent since we hood Negroes don't know how to respond to proper authority. You need some help my friend and if you are a black man start acting like it. I am over you and your uppity black status.. Good bye...


quickvue 4 years ago

@Mark. LOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL My closet friend you do not have to put gay and homosexual together. If you are gay doesn't that make you a homosexual and if you are a homosexual doesn't that make you gay? Three snaps and around the world with a twist. Hello Girfriend! You are too funny.. I do not know what this Trayvon/Zimmerman case has to do with which way I am swinging. Got to admire your temerity...... Hit me up anytime.. Love and Kisses....


Attikos profile image

Attikos 4 years ago from East Cackalacky

This thread has been made a wasteland by trolling, especially by one troll. Were it mine I'd nuke it. It's not, so I'm done with it.


perrya profile image

perrya 4 years ago Author

Hoping to get comments from others with a fresh comment.


quickvue 4 years ago

Yes this thread has really bought out our real nature. I think that is a good thing. Thanks.... Now I know where we all stand.


quickvue 4 years ago

And Attikos, I've had enough of your racist ass.


Jimmy 4 years ago

The Reptilian Aliens which are called Reptoids are proportional in size to modern humans. They have a snake like or lizard appearance. These are highly advanced entities but viewed as being of a negative, hostile or dangerous disposition since they regard humans as a totally inferior race. They would perceive us much the way we would perceive a herd of cattle. The information about these creatures varies from source to source. Supposedly they consider Earth their ancient outpost and want to have complete control over it because their planet is becoming unable to adequately support life.

The so-called "Reptilians", or "Reptoids", is noted that there is no implication in these descriptors other than of intelligent, communicative persons. What distinguishes these "Reptilian" extraterrestrials is their skin, which has small, fine scales, rather than smooth, their face, which has larger-than- human yellowish-green eyes with a "starburst"-shaped pupil, the eyes often oval, and an almost snout-like blunt process in the area of the nose and mouth, giving this type an almost dragon-like humanoid appearance.

Another group of extraterrestrials for convenience, I call the "Jawas", after their resemblance to the creatures in the film, Star Wars. This group is distinguished by their clothing. They wear hoods and robes, are generally short (three to four-and-a-half feet tall), and their faces are concealed by the shadows thrown by their hoods. Sometimes there is a much taller hooded and robed one on board the UFO, who often stands to the Experiencer's left as s/he lies on the ET medical examining table.

This Tall One appears to direct the procedures, and often is the one who telepathically communicates with the Experiencer. A few Experiencers have noted glowing eyes under the "Jawas'" hoods.

Other Experiencers have reported that when they got a glimpse of the Being whose face was shadowed by the hood, it was a type of "Gray". Still others saw neither glowing eyes nor "Grays" under the hoods, but rather never could distinguish the features in the shadows of the hoods. There are often mixed- race crews on the UFO's. In such cases there could be "Jawas" or "Praying Mantis" types or "Reptoids" or "Grays", joining in a coordinated effort in carrying out scientific or medical tasks.

A few Experiencers have noted robot-like figures, whose movements and "vibes" (or rather lack thereof) strongly suggest that these are robots sent remotely by the extraterrestrials to observe, reconnoiter, and possibly retrieve objects. The robot-like figures appear to be relegated to the more impersonal tasks of information - gathering and stealthy surveillance, without the risk to the extraterrestrials that they would otherwise run of possibly encountering hostile human responses.

Upon closer looking, the experiencer was able to see the actual nonhuman face of the extraterrestrial behind the mentally-imposed "human" mask. Extraterrestrials are capable of producing 'screen memories' and what the abductee sees is not necessarily what is the true version of what has been seen.

Few races today have actually remained as pure genetic stock, with the exception of two races that the Andromedans say are really genetically clean. That is the Reptilians from Alpha Draconis, and the other is what we call, or know as the Elohim, which are a very ancient race of humans that survived Lyra. All other races are a varied degree of hybrid or mixture of races of different genetic stock.


Jimmy 4 years ago

Please help spread the news. My good friend, Perry the Commodore (Old Poolman on Hubpages), are doing our best to educate people, but we can't reach everyone. We need your help.


Mac 4 years ago

I wish Trayvon hadn't started smoking pot. It can really trap you. When I was a teenager (24 now) I used to smoke pot semi-regularly (usually on the weekends, maybe a few times a week during the summer). And it was a blast. I'd laugh at everything, feel cool, chill (except when my friends wanted to go on blunt rides or smoke somewhere public where we'd just be paranoid of every little thing. I did it anyway but hey I was 15-17 y/o it's called peer pressure).

Anyways, I stopped for a little while midway senior year. The year after high school I got into a relationship, the kind where for the first 10 months I didn't hang out with anyone anymore. So I'd smoke by myself usually...go out to my car late at night, put on some music, and just relax. Once we broke up I started seeing my friends again, and I noticed right away I was now awkward when I smoked with people. Easy answer there IMO: 10 months of near isolation will have that effect. So I cut that loss, and continued just smoking by myself, which suited me fine, I was still only a semi-regular at its peek.

Then for three years or so I nearly stopped altogether. I'd smoke like 5 times a year. I bought an ounce and smoked it all recently. Not at once.. over about 3 weeks. Once again in the chill, nighttime, by-myself setting. And now I can't even do that. I have a nervous twitch that kicks into sheer OVERDRIVE when I smoke, I worry about every little thing in my life, and I DREAD I'll have to talk to someone when I'm high.

Like I said, I'm 24 now... I have a good amount of stress in my life. So what's the answer here? Did I just grow out of it? Once you stop you can't go back? Stress is blocking me from having a good time? The new atmosphere (living in my own place instead of my mom's house) changing? I just want that feeling of stress seeping out of my body that I used to get when I'd lay back at like midnight and just tune out the world. But if I can't get it again, hey I'll cut my ties.

Help me, bash me, catch a joke set-up I said that I didn't realize, just any thoughts. Thanks.


perrya profile image

perrya 4 years ago Author

The Trayvon case has nothing to do with pot.


Mac 4 years ago

Well, that's your opinion.


Tim 4 years ago

Perrya, I never smoked pot in junior high because I was convinced it would shrivel my incipient manhood. This was the 1980s, and those stark this-is-your-brain-on-drugs ads already had me vaguely worried about memory loss and psychosis. But when other boys said pot might affect our southern regions, I was truly terrified. I didn't smoke a joint for the first time until I was 21.

By 12th grade, about half of young Americans have tried marijuana, which put me in the geeky other half. I used to think this was a good thing, since I never developed a taste for pot and avoided becoming dependent. But as the medical-marijuana movement flowered and weed's p.r. improved, I often wondered if I shouldn't have relished it as a kid, before I had a personal trainer to tsk-tsk my every vice. Shrinking testicles? Mushy brains? I came to see these as grotesqueries invented by antidrug propagandists.

It turns out that the study of marijuana's health effects is at once more complex and less advanced than you might imagine. "Interpretations [of marijuana research] may tell more about [one's] own biases than the data," writes Mitch Earleywine in Understanding Marijuana: A New Look at the Scientific Evidence, published in August by Oxford. For example: "Prohibitionists might mention that THC [delta-9 tetra-hydrocannabinol, the smile-producing chemical in pot] often appears in the blood of people in auto accidents. Yet they might omit the fact that most of these people also drank alcohol. Antiprohibitionists might cite a large study that showed no sign of memory problems in chronic marijuana smokers. Yet they might not mention that the tests were so easy that even a demented person could perform them."

The science of marijuana--especially its potential medical uses--is malleable because it's so young and so contradictory. Although preliminary data are promising, scientists haven't definitively shown that the drug can safely treat nausea or pain or anything, really. Some experts claim the U.S. government has sabotaged medical-marijuana research, and there is evidence to support them. Even so, in the past few years scientists have made rapid advances in their basic understanding of how Cannabis sativa works. By 1993, researchers had found the body's two known receptors for cannabinoids, the psychoactive chemicals in the plant (THC is the main one, but there are at least 65 others). Since then, there has been important new work in several fields that users, potential users and former users should know about--and that voters should take into account before deciding whether to legalize pot.

So much new research has appeared that in November the Journal of Clinical Pharmacology and the National Institute on Drug Abuse will publish a 100-page supplement devoted entirely to marijuana. The Journal gave Time an advance look; it's a comprehensive review that will annoy both sides in the drug war. You won't find clear evidence that pot is good or evil, but the research sheds light on some of the most important questions surrounding the drug:

Can it kill you?

No one has ever died of THC poisoning, mostly because a 160-lb. person would have to smoke roughly 900 joints in a sitting to reach a lethal dose. (No doubt some have tried.) But that doesn't mean pot can't contribute to serious health problems and even DEAth--both indirectly (driving while stoned, for instance) and directly (by affecting circulation, for example). A paper published last year in the journal Angiology found 10 odd cases in France of heavy herbe smokers who developed ischemia (an insufficient blood supply) in their limbs, leading in four cases to amputations. It's not clear that marijuana caused the decreased blood flow, but the vascular problems did worsen during periods of heavy use. Another 2001 paper, in Circulation, found a nearly fivefold increase in the risk for heart attack in the first hour after smoking marijuana--though statistically that means smoking pot is about as dangerous for a fit person as exercise.

Read more: http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1...


perrya profile image

perrya 4 years ago Author

No, its not only my opinion. How is it related to what happened?


Mac 4 years ago

If you have a small amount of cannabis, the effects can last up to five hours. You may:

•feel unusually well and happy

•do or say things which you normally wouldn’t, engage in risk-taking behaviour like unsafe sex or dangerous driving

•talk and laugh more than usual

•experience anxiety and paranoia

•have bad balance and co-ordination

•feel drowsy

•find it hard to concentrate

•have problems remembering things

•feel hungry

•experience asthmatic symptoms or have trouble breathing if you smoke cannabis

•have a faster heart rate

•have dry, red eyes

•have a dry mouth and throat

•focus on one particular thing and ignore all other things


perrya profile image

perrya 4 years ago Author

And, Trayvon was, what?


quickvue 4 years ago

@Perrya: shot by a overzealous wannabee cop that was on prescription medication or maybe not in his right frame of mind that saw a young teenager as suspicious, that was up to no good, and just walking around looking at houses in the rain. Something is wrong with him and now he is checking me out. Like I said before Trayon could have been dressed in drag that nite it is all irrevelant to the fact that Zimmerman got out his car and that is the end of the story. Like I said much has been done to smear this young man's image while fluffy Zimmerman is painted as the victim. Unbelievable! All the evident that points to Zimmerman's guilt we still need more evidence? What was Zimmerman's state of mind that nite. Apparently he is an idiot to chase someone that had previous unnerved him until he had to roll up his windome. Moments later he get out the car and chases Trayvon. Zimmerman is a big fat liar.


perrya profile image

perrya 4 years ago Author

well, the jury is still out and we'll just have to wait.


quickvue 4 years ago

I just do not see how Zimmerman can get out of this one. What really gets to me are the callous and insensitive remarks made towards Trayvon. I can only imagine the anguish that young man went thru if he knew Zimmerman had that gun.. Only Zimmerman, God and Trayvon know exactly what happened. Regardless of what Trayon looked like, smelled like, did at school, had fake gold teeth, thought he was a thug, he still had the same rights as any American citizen walking home minding his own business. Zimmerman life is over. I do not feel sorry for him. Let justice prevail and still none of the Zimmermanites have answered my question. What was Trayvon guilty of that nite that warrantive his death. I hope Corey has an ace in the hole. I hope the defense is pissing in their pants. I hope Zimmerman reap what he has sown. Yes we will wait and see.


quickvue 4 years ago

@Attikos,Perrya and Jimmy771: You all know there is a new television show out called "House of Liars" starring George Zimmerman and his family and all the Zimmermanites out there. Sad case here. It appears George Zimmerman cannot tell the truth. He lied from the beginning and he will continue to lie. And what is really sad are those supporters who donate all this money so poor Georgie Boy can pay his credit card bills and Sam club expenses. Sad. The idiocy of those supporting George baffles me beyond the little acumen I possess. Sad Case here. Like I said they are all liars, George Zimmerman, his brother, his wife, his mother, his double lying dad, and all the rest associated with this lying clan. Oh what a tangle web we weave when first we practice to deceive. For those who donated money to Zimmerman's website you should feel like idiots because I know you sure look like idiots. Sad case here. When will the lies stop Mr. George Standing On Shaky Ground I didn't know his age shooting in self denfense lying every chance I get? When? Never I believe. And you suckas keep on paying Geoge's bills. Sad case here. Can you explain this one to me Mr. Perrya, Attikos, and the psuedo black man Jimmy 771? You all should remain silent from here on out. May justice prevail....Sad case here.


perrya profile image

perrya 4 years ago Author

@quickvu- I ain't paying his bills believe, not saying he is or is not guilty. His wife in jail for lying certainly makes his words suspect BUT there is the doctors report minutes after the event and it supports Zimmerman's claims. Is the doctor also a Zimmerite? I doubt it. What do you think of the Sandusky trial, BTW?


quickvue 4 years ago

@Mr. Perrya: Let me clarify that I think you are an undercover Zimmermanite (a supporter of Zimmerman). Secondly, for to say a man that was in a fight for his life the injuries Zimmerman received look like a playground fight between two 12 year old boys... His father and Zimmerman both said (remember they are liars) that Trayvon was banging his head in the concrete. I wish Trayvon had beat him unconscious and then he could say he was fearful of his life and use the Stand My Ground defense. Zimmerman is a coward and a liar. His story is falling apart. I believe Trayvon was fighting for his life when he saw that gun. Yes Zimmerman's doctor is a Zimmermanite. Usually, people who have received a near death beating as Zimmerman claim should have went to the ER. Zimmerman is a liar. Zimmerman is a liar. Liars do not tell the truth. I hope and pray that Corey has something up her sleeve. She says she has special evidence to use against Trayvon. Also, there is rumor that Trayvon has a 911 call out there that he made. Oh boy this is getting interesting. Sandusky needs Jesus. No further comment needed.......


perrya profile image

perrya 4 years ago Author

Sandusky needs death to end his misery and to begin his hell.


Luther 4 years ago

The racist circus taking place in Florida over the shooting of Trayvon Martin is in high gear and proves my point. Blacks continue to scream about Trayvon Martin but refuse to mention a 6 year old black child killed in Chicago last weekend by blacks. Black on black violent crime runs rampant in America but receives no attention from those trying to create a racial war. White on black crime is virtually non-existent yet the Martin/Zimmerman incident is treated as if whites killing blacks is epidemic!

If George Zimmerman is found not guilty, look for Rodney King-like destruction throughout the United States. But through all the cover of the mainstream propaganda media, the title of this post is becoming more and more evident. Most black people do indeed hate white people. Many do not and have broken the chains of ingrained hatred that infests the black community. But, as a whole, there is a hatred for whites that permeates black America.


perrya profile image

perrya 4 years ago Author

Hmmm, hate is a strong word, I would say many, not all, dislike whites. But most of it is not hard core. It also depends where in the country you are. Not all white or black have a problem with one another, it really comes down to the personalities. Skin color is just icing.


Jimmy771 4 years ago

In African American folklore, the sea crab ranks among the dumbest of creatures who also offers a valuable lesson. When you catch a bucket or a basketful, you never have to put a lid on because when one of the creatures tries to get out, the others will just pull it back in. Some of our fellow human beings aren't much smarter than that. When they see you working hard to achieve your dreams, they'll make fun of you just for trying.


Carl 4 years ago

A simpler version for quickvue:

One time a man was walking along the beach and say another man fishing in the surf with a bait bucket beside him. As he drew closer, he saw that the bait bucket had no lid and had live crabs inside.

"Why don't you cover your bait bucket so the crabs won't escape?", he said.

"You don't understand.", the man replied, "If there is one crab in the bucket it would surely crawl out very quickly. However, when there are many crabs in the bucket, if one tries to crawl up the side, the others grab hold of it and pull it back down so that it will share the same fate as the rest of them."

So it is with people. If one tries to do something different, get better grades, improve herself, escape her environment, or dream big dreams, other people will try to drag her back down to share their fate.

Moral of the story: Ignore the crabs. Charge ahead and do what is right for you. It may not be easy and you may not succeed as much as you like, but you will NEVER share the same fate as those never try.

We have been enriched by the talents of people who have had less than "perfect" bodies, whether by birth, accident or disease - Helen Keller, F.D. Roosevelt, Stephen Hawking, George Bush, Stevie Wonder, Christopher Reeve, to name just a few. They chose to "climb the crab bucket" instead of listening to others.


quickvue 4 years ago

@ Mr.Perrya: Prosecutor Bernie De la Rionda complained Friday, "This court was led to believe they didn't have a single penny. It was misleading and I don't know what words to use other than it was a blatant lie." Listen to what the court system is saying about Zimmerman. And then Mark O'Mara said Zimmerman was "fearful and confused" when his wife misled the court about his financial disclosures. Listen to what the word of God says about lying: Prov 19:5

"A false witness will not go unpunished, And he who tells lies will not escape." Zimmerman shall not escape justice. He is a liar. Amazing how his lawyer tries to sweep his lying under the rug as if it wasn't nothing big.. HA HA. Zimmerman should never have been granted bail. While he is in jail I think they should paint his cell wall with a picture of skittles and Arizona ice tea on that wall. Sounds good to me. It is a sad day in America when a teenager loses his life all because he looks "suspicious." No one (referring to the Zimmermnites) has told me what Trayvon was doing wrong that nite. But yet we try to smear this young man's name as if he deserved to be killed. I can name a million things Zimmerman did wrong that nite. I cannot name one that Trayvon did unless it is walking while black. HMMMMMMMMMMMMM..... This is a sad day in American history. All eyes are on you Sanford, Florida. Liar, Liar pants on fire. Zimmerman has told so many lies until he can't keep up with them. Now he has his lawyer lying. Lying is contagious. Zimmerman should just tell the truth. Is that possible?


theilleagalalien 4 years ago

try being illegal immigrant here. white people always try cornhole you.


quickvue 4 years ago

@Perrya.. I am having a field day with this Zimmerman episode. Let the facts speak: Round two. And what does the defense have to say about the lying of financial assets by the Zimmemans: The defense countered that Zimmerman and his wife never used the money for anything, which indicated "there was no deceit." LOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL. I equate this to someone robbing a bank of millions but since that person did not spend any of the loot, there was no deceit, no crime committed. It is ok to rob a bank just as long as you don't spend any of the money. LOL... Zimmerman told his wife to pay off their credit card bills and Sam's card. What a sad day in American history. I believe in my heart Trayvon was the victim that nite. I believe it was Trayvon pleading for his life. I believe Trayvon was profile because he was black and therefore suspicious to Zimmerman. I believe Zimmerman took the law into his hands because "these assholes always get away." I believe Zimmerman and his cohorts, minions, supporters, fans, or whatever you want to call them all need an enema. Zimmerman is full of it and it is not the Holy Ghost. I believe Mark O'Mara knows deep down in his heart Zimmerman is guilty. I believe the police Chief Lee (I think that is his name) should be fired.. I believe Trayvon had every right to be where he was that nite. I believe Zimmerman will continue to lie. And I believe his followers will believe his lies for in their conscious their are border line racist sentiments that fuel thier motives. I believe Mr. Perrya harbors superficially these sentiments. I believe Jimmy7771 needs to realize he is still a black man in a white man's world. Word! And Attikos your post speak volume of your views. Shame on you. I believe there is still a glimpse that JUSTICE will be served.. I believe Zimmerman was guilty the moment he layed eyes on Trayvon. This is what I believe...


perrya profile image

perrya 4 years ago Author

Yes, justice will prevail, but will everyone be happy with the outcome? This is not a Sandusky type case where the evidence is so overwhelming that even his defense team are thinking, my client is going down, bigtime. The Martin case DOES have gray area....


Sara 4 years ago

Is Trayvon Martin's shooting death being used as a set-up for Martial Law?People could use the opportunity of rallies for justice after wrongful deaths to spark riots. Perhaps the concentration camps are ready now. The Army advertised for resettlement relocation specialists last fall, and I read reports that companies were placing bids to service the camps months ago. Congress passed the National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA) bills in November, and President Obama signed NDAA on New Year's Eve. Numerous states are passing laws against public protests. On March 16, the president signed an Executive Order for peacetime Martial Law. Every time you turn on the news, some American official is grinning and shaking hands with Chinese officials as our human and civil rights and jobs disappear. Approach everything with a cool head, and go nowhere with angry people.


THEILLEAGALALIEN 4 years ago

GREAT, I SEE MORE CORNHOLING COMING FOR MEXICANS FROM BLACKS IF ZIMERMMAN GO FREE.


quickvue 4 years ago

@Mr. Perrya: Well can you please tell me what areas are not gray? You said justice will prevail: are you alluding to justice for Trayvon or Zimmerman? Remember you are straddle the fence on this one in lieu of over incriminating evidence against Zimmerman. What do you mean by justice will prevail? Please explain your rhetoric.


Rascal 4 years ago

It has to be repeated: this isn't a case about race. It wouldn't matter if Dimmerman was married to a black woman. This is about a cop wanna-be who was sure that an innocent young man (regardless of race) MUST be a burglar and who undoubtedly tried to keep Trayvon from leaving the scene--which Dimmerman had no authority to do. He started the fight and then shot the kid to death. If George had an average head of hair, he wouldn't even have gotten those scratches and cuts on his head. The hair would have cushioned him.


Luther 4 years ago

@Mr. Quickvue: This case will be going to court where there will be a judge to interpret the law, lawyers to make legal arguments, medical experts to examine the physical evidence, witnesses who were actually there and a jury to decide guilt. Unless you have been appointed by the State of Florida to somehow fill all of these rolls, your repeated calls to cornhole this guy, as our illegal Peruvian friend would say, just don't matter. If your looking for people to be sympathetic to y0ur rants about "The Man," I suggest you go socialize with you hoodie wearing friends.


perrya profile image

perrya 4 years ago Author

I suspect Trayvon was a basically nice kid and like any tragedy, he and Zimmer were are the wrong place at the wrong time. Both had no bad intent at the start of it and their own personal prejudices, whatever they were, all steered and colored their skewed vision as to what the other was doing. Maybe Trayvon was angered by it all and was going to teach the MF a lesson, so he thought. Maybe, zimmerman honestly thought Trayvon was just acting odd, which reinforced his skewed suspicion, it egged him to continue to follow to either validate this or prove he was wrong. Up until now, no illegality had occurred, but both were heading for the collision and skuffle. Had either simply went the other way, meaning, had Trayvon bolted out of the area, it would be over. Z would return to his car and go home. Had Z came to the conclusion his hunch was wrong, he would have turned and said, screw it, its not worth it. Fact is, neither did that. Both went in the opposite direction-maybe out of suspicion and maybe out of pride and bravado.


Luther 4 years ago

@Perrya: You may very well be right, but the fact is none of us really know what happened or know all of the evidence. I hope when this thing goes to court, the jury will make an educated, unbiased decision and this thing is decided fairly. Either way they decide is fine with me as long as it is based on the facts and not emotions. Too many people are basing their opinions of this case solely on them. I'm really tired of people like quickvue immediately claiming racial discrimination anytime the opportunity presents itself. I'm also curious as to what happened to "innocent until proven guilty." If the man is guilty then I hope the jury finds him so, but the racial rants from people like quickvue due nothing to promote justice.


Mark 4 years ago

There is nothing more painful to me … than to walk down the street and hear footsteps and start thinking about robbery, then look around and see somebody white and feel relieved.

— the Reverend Jesse Jackson, as quoted in US News, 3/10/96


perrya profile image

perrya 4 years ago Author

Being followed is always uncomfortable. Night makes it worse.


quickue 4 years ago

@Luther: First of all sir, Quickvue is not claiming racial discrimination but I do believe race was a factor in this case. You must be white. Let me explain to you what it is like to be black in a white man's world which you will never know. I was born in ass-backwards Mississippi and has seen racism at it's fullest. I have been judged by my color too many times and harassed by the PO PO, but did I retaliate by robbing folks, smoking weed, or having 8 childrens by 6 diffferent women. I went to school got an education and joined the military. I am making it in life and it grieves my heart to see my young brothers heading down the wrong path. Hence is my rebuttal to your stupid remarks that I did not make: Racial rants. I said and will say that due to the evidence presented Zimmerman is dead wrong. I do not know all the facts but what we do know speaks for itself. Zimmerman judged Trayvon by just seeing him. He said he was suspicious. Why was he suspicious? You know and I know he was suspicious because he was black.. Let us move on. If that had been a white kid with a hoodie on (and hoodies are legal clothing) would Zimmerman had made that call. What I am ranting about is that a young man needlessly lost his life on that dreadful day. I guess "this asshole did not get away." Zimmerman is lying so much he doesn't remember the lies he told. And I hope you are not the one donating to his funds sucka. Zimmerman is taking you all for a ride. For me to be racial in this incident is to deny and potray my faith in Jesus Christ. Right is right and wrong is wrong. If I was following you in the dark I bet you would wet your pants. Innocent until proven guilty is the way our judiciary system works but let us say there are a lot of guilt entities not favorably to Zimmerman right now. "These assholes always get a way." Zimmerman is a liar... his wife is a liar, his brother is a liar, his dad is a liar, his mom is a liar, Mark O'Mara is a liar. So I do not believe anything coming out the Zimmerman camp. Now that I know you are a Zimmermanite I will address you as such. No racial rants here just anger over the needless death of a young teenager that had his whole life ahead of him. I wonder how you would feel if that had been your son that nite? You talking all that yang yang but when the problem is in your back yard I bet your convo on this page would be a little different. So let us correct ourselves. Reasonable conclusions due to the facts presented are my rants for justice. Zimmerman initiated this conflict and I do not care if Trayvon threw the first punch or not. Zimmerman had plenty of time to get back in his truck.. Something is not right here. Have a nice day and learn how to read before you misread what I wrote. I said If Trayvon had been white we would not be having this convo. Do you agree?


Luther 4 years ago

You don't get it dude. I don't care about Trayvon's color or his clothing. I just want a jury to hear the case and make a fair decision. This Zimmermanite language you use is just garbage and just because I don't want to see the man lynched does not mean I'm in his corner. If the man is found guilty during a fair trial I will respect the courts decision. If the man is found not guilty I'm sure you will crying racism and injustice.


perrya profile image

perrya 4 years ago Author

@ Luther- I agree


Quickvue 4 years ago

@Luther and Perrya: No you don't get it DUDE. I do not see how Zimmerman can get out of this one. All the signs point to his guilt and responsibility to that young man's death. He should have stayed in his truck and not pursue Trayvon. He should have met the police at the mailboxes. I am entitled to my opinion and I say the evidence against Zimmerman does not help his case. If I wanted to cry racism and injustice I can and could. I was raised in racist Mississippi but thank God my mom taught me to respect people regardless of their race, creed or color. Please don't make me go there at the untold number of injustices suffer by blacks at the hands of the white mentality. Racism is alive in America or are you still under a rock (ignorant state of existence). Like I said before if it was your son you wouldn't be stating these things. I agree with a trail for Zimmerman. And I hope he is found guilty. That is my opinion formulated on the evidence that is presented. He is a liar and I hope they get him.. That is my opinion. If it was a black man that gunned down an innocent white man, I hope they get him. It doesn't matter to me so you can shut your face saying I will cry racism and injustice. It was an injustice for Trayvon to have his life taken away. Let the court decided if it was racially motivated. Zimmerman needs to pay for his crime instead of putting the blame on Trayvon. What is fair? Was Trayvon given a fair chance dude? So crawl back under that stupidity rock you been under and jsut look at all the evidence against Zimmerman... It doesn't look good for him. Trayvon had the right to be where he was without some wannabee mall cop shooting him. Where is the justice for Trayvon and his family. Like I said Dude I wish it had been your son instead of Trayvon. Have a nice day.... And Mr. Perrya you are still straddling the fence... SAD!


perrya profile image

perrya 4 years ago Author

At this point, the best thing to do is to straddle because trials always provide some surprise.


quickvue 4 years ago

@Mr. Perrya: The Good Book says "A double minded man is unstable in all his ways." WEll, I am not straddle the fence like you. My conscious and the evidence presented is how I base my decisions. Zimmerman is first and far most a LIAR. Those folks do not tell the truth.. Therefore, I believe nothing he says from this point forward. Neither should the court. Second, yes Racism is alive in American in its subtilities. Angela Corey said she had special evidence against Zimmerman and I pray that is justifiable evidence that will get justice from Trayvon. I believe that it was Trayvon pleading for his life on that 911 tape. Thirdly, Zimmerman was just hoping all this would blow over like it was no big deal. Zimmerman needs to pay for his actions. Trayvon is dead and we will never hear his side of the story. Zimmerman does not respect the court system and is lying like it is his second nature. I just don't see how he can get out of this or apply the Stand Your Ground Rule. This is madness. Why would you get out your vehicle and chase someone you told in the police report "unnerved you?"... Liar, liar pants on fire. I know you think you see light at the end of the tunnel Mr. Perrya but I pray it is not an oncoming train for you. Zimmerman is making a fool out of all those folks supporting his senseless and callous case. SAD! By the way are you a Believer (Christian)?


Luther 4 years ago

@Mr. Quickvue: I have had it with your racist rants and will no longer respond to you. To ridicule those of us who want the facts to come out and for a fair verdict to be found is nonsense. You simply can not understand the viewpoints of others or free thought. I do not care where you grew up. I do not care about your education. I also do not care about your military service in realtion to this topic. I did my time too and that is a non-factor here. The fact is your mind is decided based on the colors of people's skin. You fail to realize that it is people who think like you that continue racism in this country.


quickvue 4 years ago

@Luther: Please I could give a rat's behind if you no longer responded to me. I didn't ask you to respond in the first place. Crawl back under your rock you came under. And exactly what color am I? I guess I was trying to convince you of my non-thugism and also the military has a lot of under cover bigots also. Before you take your tired behind away I need you to explain to me what racial rants I used? I can ridicule all I want that is the reason why we live in this country. So tuck your tail and run just because you do not agree with my conclusions. If it is racial for me to say that Zimmerman is guilty of initiating the conflict between Trayvon and shoooting him then I am a Racist. If I feel and we all know that Zimmerman is a liar and will continue to lie then I am a RACIST!. If you feel that I have racial rants because I feel for this young man whose life was taken away needlessly then I am a RACIST. If you feel that it is ok for a stranger to judge you because of who you are (and Zimmerman did have a problem with Trayvon. Remember he said he looked suspicious) which I do not then I am a RACIST! If you cannot see that Zimmerman was way out of line here then you my friend are an Idiot and in denial. OOOPS.. those that justify as a racial rant. A young man lost his life and I am tired of these right wingers defending Zimmerman. But please show me where I initiated Racial rants on my post? If you cannot then you should shut your face. It is better to remind silence and be thought a fool then to speak up and remove all doubt. Please remain silence. No, it is you Mr. Luther that is keeping racism alive in this country by insisting that I am the racist one when I never went there. At least I am not in denial concerning Zimmerman's guilt and you served in the military.. Oh my.....That is all I can say... Good day sir and if I never hear from you again get your facts straight before you make a fool of yourself. Again I wish it had been your son that day instead of Trayvon....


perrya profile image

perrya 4 years ago Author

what if Z had also been black, for the sake of discussion. Everything that went down is the same. The prejudice (blacks can have prejudice of other blacks), the suspicion, the stereotypes, the setting at night etc. Would this killing be as divisive?


Mike 4 years ago

When I heard he was being charged with 2nd degree murder, I immediately thought that they might be simply buying time to let everything cool down until the nation’s attention is focus is on some other issue and then the D.A. will drop the charges and declare the incident a justified shooting/homicide.

Furthermore, under Florida Law one cannot bring a civil suit in this instance.

Guess well see, huh?


Patti 4 years ago

If Z wanted to kill TM, he sure as hell wouldn't call cops first-this isn't a TV show. And if he had wanted to do that, TM would have just been found dead. Like any other young black, white, yellow, hell, green men with some level of drugs in his system...bad upbringing, way too permissive. Out hanging about after being suspended/expelled, rewarded with total freedom. What shitty parenting.


perrya profile image

perrya 4 years ago Author

Patti raises an interesting point- Z did not have any premeditated desire of killing T, if he had, he sure would not have called 911 first.


Quickvue 4 years ago

@Patti and Mr. Perrya: First of all I did not know Pattie had clariyonant powers or pyschic ablilites to know what Zimmerman was thinking. And you Mr. Perrya agrees with her. It is amazing how you all can draw your line of defense for out of control Zimmerman but when it comes to obvious facts and evidence you all make excuses or avoid the issue all together. I know what was going thru Zimmerman's mind also.. Actually he told us. Listen to the 911 tape and you do not have to pyschic like Patti to determine that Zimmerman was up to no good. "These assholes they always get a way." With Zimmerman history of calling 911 on black young males this does not look good. Also pyschic woman Patti it is not cool to chase someone in the dark that you do not know. If I had a gun on me and I was Trayvon we would be attending Zimmerman funeral. But wait I am in Florida so I can justify by the Stand My Ground Law.. Priceless! What really gets me is this: Zimmerman had agreed to meet the PO PO at the mailboxes but then he changes his mind and says to have them to call him and he will tell them where he is.. To me, and this is just logical inference, Zimmerman had his own intent. I think he was still looking for the "kid" that he said he had lost. And Since you are so psychic can you tell me why Zimmerman is such a big fat juicy liar? Just dying to hear your take on this. Also tell me what flavor of ice tea he likes so I can send him some. Also, don't forget to contribute to his fund so he can pay off some more of his credit card bills.. SAD! And what does having weed in his system have to do with the murder of Trayon? Even Mr. Perrya who is straddle the fence still says in his earliest post that it was irrevelant. I hear none of you defending Trayon was was doing nothing wrong at the time..But yet you try to smear this young man's name by bringing up suspesion from school and the weed and now you alluding that he had bad upbringing... SAD! Be careful Pattie your post may reveal your true intentions.... I will be watching you very closely from here on out.. Do you like skittles?


perrya profile image

perrya 4 years ago Author

The point you neglected to address is had Z been black and the facts are the same, would there be this much debate? if not, why not? the color of skin makes no difference in death.


quickvue 4 years ago

@Mr. Perrya: the charge against Zimmerman is Second degree murder.. Enough said......Angela Corey said she had special evidence against Zimmerman to charge him with such.. You should be asking her these questions... I am just waiting.......


Patti 4 years ago

@Quickvue:

Why are you lying about Z saying TM was threatening him prior to the actual physical confrontation? Z NEVER did that. LISTEN and READ. And do it from the actual recorded version the POLICE have, not NBC or ABC. READ Transcripts in their entirety. READ POLICE reports, not those from the blinded by blackness people who don't know, didn't see, and are liars anyway. There are HONEST black witnesses who are NOT on TM's side, yaknow. I'll bet you think they're Uncle Toms!


Patti 4 years ago

Z's youthful and MINOR situations weren't even nearly as bad as "Yo swung on a bus driver??" and "fight club." Telling his friends to shoot people as well as calling whites crackers. Some stellar young man there, that TM...NOT!!! LMAO again and again.

It is not really all that complicated..normally, and if Z had shot a WHITE man, this wouldn't even be an issue. Z reported TM. TM had come close to his vehicle, acting weird in response to surveillance, gesturing as if he had a weapon at his pants. THAT was a threat.

Z mentioned this to dispatch...and when TM took off, Z was out of his car, wanting to be able to report the location of TM to the cops. Dispatch asks "Are you following him?" Z said yes. Dispatch says"We don't need you to do that." Z said "OK." They discussed where to meet(Z and where dispatch said the cops would be) and dispatch asked Z this "Let us know if he does ANYTHING else."

TM was a disrespectful little gangsta-type. He hated authority and he hated whites. he didn't come up with those opinions on his own, he was clearly imprinted from birth. My youngest child was in a COMPLETELY black daycare for her first year. THEY loved her, and she and I both loved them. It is how you raise your kids. She never heard "cracka" till she went to public school, then the taunts and abuses happened daily.


Patti 4 years ago

Some tape excerpts:

1) "Now he's staring at me"

2) "Now he's coming towards me"

3) "He's got his hand in his waistband"

4) "Somethin's wrong with him"

5) "Yep. He's coming to check me out"

6) "He's got something in his hands"

7) "I don't know what his deal is"

8) "Can you get an officer over here"

What motivated him to basically reiterate the request for the police to get there his admiration of TM? He felt threatened by him. He thought he had a gun or weapon in his waistband. He said TM put his hand there. That alone is a threatening gesture. He was coming right at him. He had something in his hand (perhaps a gun- that's what GZ said at the bail hearing did he not?). A threat does not have to be verbal.

784.011 Assault.

(1) An "assault" is an intentional, unlawful threat by word or ACT to do violence to the person of another, COUPLED WITH AN APPARENT ABILITY to do so, and doing some act which creates a well-founded fear in such other person that such violence is imminent.

He repeated the request for police presence out of fear.

You beg people to READ and LISTEN. Perhaps you should take your own advice.


perrya profile image

perrya 4 years ago Author

Thanks, Patti. The trial will be most interesting. I do think that Z's wife lying to the judge about bail certainly taints his own credibility. But, the doctor report immediately after the fight indicates he was telling the truth.


Quickvue 4 years ago

@Patti: I am trying to think of a more polite term to call you without calliing you out of your name. So If I walked down the street and hand my hands in my waistband is that a crime? Remember Trayvon was unarmed. That is the same thing Trayvon told his girlfriend that some strange man was watching him and then followed him. Remember Zimmerman got out his car and chased Trayvon. And then he said "These assholes they always get away". Zimmerman is a liar and I do not believe anything that comes out his mouth. In the police report he said Trayvon cirlced his truck and it unerved him so badly that he rolled up his window. Then a few moments later he chases him. Those are Zimmerman's description of what he wanted to see. I would stare at some idiot I didn't know too. Zimmerman lied about Trayon's age. Zimmerman lied about his police record. Zimmerman lied about his finances. Zimmerman lied about the passport. Zimmerman's dad lied. Zimmerman's brother lied. They are all lying. I hate to say it but Zimmerman judged Trayvon because he was black. Zimmerman should have kept his coward wannabee cop behind in his truck. Patti you should remain silent because you are making yourself look stupid. In your post you said Zimmerman thought Trayvon had a gun. And you said Zimmerman felt threaten. Here is where you post become stupid. If Zimmerman was so threatened and afraid then why did he get his scared behind out the car and chase Trayvon. Remember the dispatcher asked him are you following him(Trayvon)? Wannabe cop Zimmerman responded: "Yeah". The dispatcher said "we don't need you to do that." LOL..... In court Zimmerman revealed himself to be the liar that he is. In his save my hide fake apology Zimmerman said he thought Trayvon was a little younger than him. Liar, Liar pants on fire. In the 911 dispatch he told the dispatcher Trayvon was in his late teens. Explain that one. He also said in the 911 call that He had lost the kid and didn't know where he was. If you didn't know if someone was armed or not why would you chase them. I didn't know it was a crime to stare at some idiot whose staring at you. I did not know it was a crime to put your hands in your waist band. You folks disgust me to the utmost. Ok.. here is one for you. Zimmerman knew that he was armed.. That is why he got out the car. And check this out: He had his own agenda when he was suppose to meet the PO PO by the mailboxes but he quickly said just have the PO PO to call him when they get there so he can tell them where he is... Miss Patti Good Shoes without a clue let me tell you why I think Zimmerman told them that. BECAUSE HE WAS STILL LOOKING FOR TRAYVON. That is what I believe he was doing. The lead dectective that nite wanted to charge Zimmerman with manslaughter because he DID NOT BELIEVE ZIMMERMAN'S STORY. AND neither do I nor the rest of civilized America believes this liar. OOOPS.. also His lawyer is a liar: Remember when The Zimmmermans got caught lying about the money; O'Mara said he was "tired and confused.".. Tell that to someone else. I don't buy it. Zimmerman paid his credit card bills and Sam's card bill with yall money.. SAD....Not once did you mention the travesty of this young man losing his life. But yet you defend Zimmerman. SAD! I hope justice is served and as I have been saying before which you nor Mr. Perrya can answer: If Trayvon(we should change his name to Timothy to sound more white) had been your son how would you feel? Be honest. I thought so. Trayvon was doing nothing wrong that nite. NOTHING! Staring is not a crime. Stalking and chasing an innocent person is especially with a gun. Putting your hand in your waistband is not a crime. But carrying a weapon while on neighborhood watch was against the rules.. You Patti are acting DULLARD......There are no other words to describe you. Why wasn't Zimmerman tested that nite for drugs? Trayvon should have had a gun and shot Zimmerman and claimed the Stand My Ground law.... Too bad he didn't. You can call me racist or whatever but I am still standing my ground that Zimmerman is ultimately responsible for the death of Trayvon. May Heaven be an audience to this crime that has been committed. If Zimmerman is convicted I will shed no tears because Trayvon could have been my son.


Quickvue 4 years ago

@Patti: I thought this would help you to explain Zimmerman since you are a devoted Zimmermanite

What is a Pathological Liar?

Source: http://answers.ask.com/Health/Mental/what_is_a_pat...

A pathological liar lies so much that they believe their own lies even though others know they are lying. Pathological liars they all of the time about everything big or small.


Patti 4 years ago

I'd LOVE to be able to consider "DeeDee's" testimony but there's simply nothing that is the least bit believable about the girl.

Team Skittles is using Sheila's deceit about finances as proof George is a murderer (quite the quantum leap there) yet they want to believe every word of a girl who's failed to tell the same story twice. There's no desire to dismiss her, she's been dismissed because her story has more holes in it than Martin does, and her post event behavior is pretty solid evidence that there was no serious relationship between the two.

For any of your scenario to be plausible, it implies pre-meditation. You're willing to accept a situation where Zimmerman has not only been lying non-stop since the incident (even though his story has remained completely consistent AND he passed a voice stress test administered by SPD the night of the shooting) but that he was actually lying from virtually the very begin of a standard suspicious persons call to a non-emergency line.

As far as why George was concerned about Martin's whereabouts, a quick view of the map of the area, and the likely paths of both individuals will explain why. Martin took off running (again, while Zimmerman is still in his vehicle) and quite quickly disappeared around the corner between the buildings at the T. Zimmerman jogs to the T to try and see where the suspect had gone, and couldn't find him. There's lots of corners, gates, etc. to hide behind in that area. Zimmerman had no reason to believe he was "long gone" as it is just as possible Martin hid somewhere, which it now appears he had. So it seems Zimmerman's hesitation to give out personal information was probably pretty well founded.

You see, that's the difference between us here and you new account Hoodies, we've looked at and considered ever possible angle, we didn't simply watch a news clip 3 months ago about a 250lb white guy shooting a 12 year old apple cheeked kid in the back of the head while he snacked on Skittles with his little brother on the porch of mom and dad's home and decide that the fat white guy should be lynched.

I'm always glad when "another undesirable" is wiped from the streets, and even more so with the rights of an individual to defend themselves when one of those undesirables is trying to beat him to death.


Marjorie 4 years ago

I freely (but not proudly) admit I bought into the angelic Trayvon narrative in the beginning. In hindsight maybe it is because my sons have had friends (black, white, Hispanic) throughout the years who were no more ghetto thugs than my own sons. They all wore hoodies.

Common sense prevailed. This has nothing to do with anything other than Trayvon, Zimmerman and the facts of that evening.

The BIG story is more about what I label a “Plantation Call” by the Rev Al. There was a problem in that the left feared a loss of support among those voters they have come to depend on throughout the years because of the economy.

What better way to unite than to exploit a situation and fight a common enemy, the white man.

George Zimmerman. Mmmm...perhaps the Rev Al did a little racial profiling of his own based on nothing more than a name?

I have pulled back from the events of that evening, trying to think of how to avoid falling into the trap of choosing sides.


Tim 4 years ago

Think about Mukden, Gulf of Tonkin, the Sudentenland – whatever incident fills the bill. They are situations where a perception was exploited, whether you agree the original perception was justified, to expand a different agenda, usually exaggerating some danger or injustice. That higher agenda didn’t really care whether truth was served or not, or whether myths were employed as long as certain ends were achieved.

The above is the way I see the Trayvon Martin case. The black community and the political Left have taken a killing and made it into something far above what it may or not have been, and in their eyes, the case is closed. All these calls for ‘we just want an arrest’ seem phoney – what they in fact want is a conviction. Just wait and see what happens when Zimmerman walks and you’ll learn the truth of it.

In order to serve the racial obsession of the Left and urban myths about white Americans past and present, Zimmerman was magically transformed into a white man. Further, and despite massive statistical evidence that presents a completely opposite picture, the Left used the Martin case to say ‘See, we told you so – white people are murdering blacks in this country every day – hunting them even.’ One thing becomes the entirety of the United States of America because it is not seen as an anecdote, but confirmation of a massive trend.

Well, it is a lie. A lie based on hate and racism. The Dem Party has been veering into dangerous territory for at least a decade now and today they have become the most radicalized they have been in my lifetime. This radicalization has gone mainstream.

Although I suspected it, I never really believed the NBA Player’s Association would release such a patently racist press release as they did about the Martin case – you can’t get more mainstream than that. Blacks who bitterly complain about injustice, like Spike Lee, a mainstream film maker, who usually confines his whining to attacking Clint Eastwood because he didn’t depict heroic blacks at Iwo Jima, or that we should all do a Zimmerman on Cleopatra and turn a Macedonian Greek into a black sub-Saharan African, went off the rails and tried to release Zimmerman’s address – violence was certainly implied.

The real core of this situation is the urban myths black American’s hold about white people in America and the history of America, and the extent to which the liberal Left has bought into them, as if it’s still 200 years ago, slave ships still plying the waters of the Atlantic, or at least Jim Crow firmly in play. To invoke this, the Left has had to replace the now gone institutions of racism with ‘code,’ ‘dog-whistles,’ bizarre and inescapable theories like ‘white privilege,’ ‘the New Jim Crow,’ and Critical Race Theory.

Almost unbelievable racists are institutionalized in our mainstream colleges and universities: Dr. Boyce Watkins at Syracuse, Michael Eric Dyson at Georgetown, Melissa Harris-Perry at Tulane, Cornel West at Princeton and the vile James Cone at Union Theological Seminary. On top of this, you have similarly intransigent racists like Al Sharpton at MSNBC, Tavis Smiley at PBS, and Roland Martin at CNN. I have followed the writings of these people: there is not a single doubt in my mind they share the same intellectual and philosophical space as Nazis in 1930s Germany. The Dem Party is not far behind.

The Left and black Americans pillory groups like the Tea Party or GOP as racist simply because black folks don’t join them, not because they are structured around race. And every single entity that accuses the Right themselves either belongs to, or supports mainstream race-based groups too numerous to mention. Meanwhile on that conservative Right, they support not one mainstream law or organization founded on a concept of race.

Those on the side of Martin as being evidence of the endemic racism of America constantly ask others to do something they refuse to do: think of the greater good. The Duke Lacrosse case had the exact same racist sadness emerge from the black community.

In my entire life, I have never seen such a wholesale flood of hypocrisy, lies, racism and myths emerge from the Martin case as I’ve seen emerge from black Americans and the Dem Party. They have gone too far this time. What will be the result is unknown. Obama and Holder and their payback minions have already done more to radicalize blacks in a few short years than in the last 50. They have done so to a receptive audience, nodding their heads yes that America is full of white supremacists who simply went underground in 1970.

It is hard to believe I live in a country where a black Florida representative can show up to work dressed like a Bangkok hooker from a strip club and say the most vile racist things about whites. It is hard to believe that not one congressman in America has the guts to stand up and say ‘get out’ to the Black Congressional Congress. There’s more – I’ve written enough.

But I will say this: let’s no longer ask why there was not one Iraqi who had the guts to blow out Saddam Hussein’s brains, or one German close to Hitler do the same. Under far less perilous circumstances, we have become muzzled by one piece of name-calling which, considering the reality of America, is a perfect Orwellian expression of ‘doublethink’: you are a racist. Pitiful. Resolve: gone. Courage: gone. Audacity: gone. Common sense: gone. Proportion: gone. Context: gone.


quickvue 4 years ago

@Patti: Finally your true intentions are revealed. You are no better than the asinine right wingers that are defending the actions of Zimmerman on that nite Trayvon lost his life. None of you contemporary idiots can tell me what Trayvon was doing wrong that nite? Since you want to get nasty about it then let's do. Your underlying racial overtones and callous statements concerning Trayvon are unjustifiable and indicative of your close mindedness to see the facts presented before you. A young teenager lost his life and all you all can do is smear his name as if he was the responsible party. ZIMMERMAN IS A LIAR. I hope and pray to God that Angela Corey has that special evidence to lock this scum bag up for the rest of his pathetic life. Was Trayvon "undesirable because he was black? Answer me that question you insignificant piece of protoplasm. The only crime Trayvon committed that nite was walking while black. I would have put a beat down on Zimmerman myself if he chased me. But I gurantee you the outcome would not have been as Trayvon. What this case does reveal is that there are still race problems in this country. And it will get worst. You know nothing about this young man but yet you judge him. LOL.. You people cannot see the facts right before you. Zimmerman was guilty the moment he left his vehicle and pursued Trayvon. Sybrina Fulton should catch a round trip ticket to where ever you live and give you a come to Jesus meeting. Ask anyone in the hood and they will tell you what that means. And Miss Patti your boy Zimmerman has been lying from day one. And he will continue to lie. And you and all your cohorts will believe his lies because you all seem to view black men as "suspicious". Therefore you are no better than Zimmerman. SAD! Trayvon sm0ked pot and your point is. That doesn't give Zimmerman the right to shot the young man. What was Trayvon doing wrong the nite he was murdered by Zimmerman? None of you idiots have been able to tell me that. Just like you believe Zimmerman I believe DEE DEE. Now run and tell that. Oh by the way you should try wearing a hoodie may improve your understanding of the situation. LOL..................I am going back to work...


perrya profile image

perrya 4 years ago Author

Trayvon did nothing wrong but was in the wrong place at the wrong time. Zimmerman did nothing wrong up to the time the confrontation occurs, now supported by the investigation of the Z video tape the day after. The is and remains, who started the end of Trayvon's life?


quickvue 4 years ago

@Perrya

So Trayvon was in the wrong place at the wrong time? Where exactly should be the right place at the right place for Trayvon? If you ever said anything truthworthy it was this statement: Trayvon did nothing wrong. Zimmerman, however, did everything wrong: He formed his own prejudical opinion of Trayvon just because he found him suspicious. What was so suspicious about Trayvon. Was it because he was black? Was it the hoodie or was it Zimmerman's own intent to see that "these assholes they always get away"? All that is necessary for the truimp of evil is that good men do nothing... That is a famous quote I love to use. If Zimmeran walks free a strong message is being sent: You can pursue anyone, start a fight then shoot and kill them and claim self defense. The state of Florida needs an ENEMA! Let the trail begin. We know that Zimmerman is lying. I hope and pray justice is served. My heart is heavy because of this and to all the right wingers out there I wish that it could have been your son that day instead of Trayvon. Angela Corey I hope you have done your homework. Let the trail begin.....


quickvue 4 years ago

@ At all the Zimmerman supporters out there. If you tell a lie make sure you stick to that lie.. I just watched lying Zimmerman reenactment of the events that led to Trayvon's death. Ok, I thought he originally said Trayon hit him from behind and knock him to the ground. Then in the reenactment Trayvon was standing face to face when he hit him.. When will this madness ends. ZIMMMERMAN IS A LIAR.....


perrya profile image

perrya 4 years ago Author

@ quickvue- your emotion really makes you very biased, in your eyes, there is only one way for the trial to end. If Z is convicted=fine, if he is not=fine.


Quickvue 4 years ago

@Mr, Perrya: Call it what you will. If I want Zimmerman to pay for his actions then I guess I am biased and will continue to be biased against the unecessary killing of a young black teenager by an overzealous wannabee cop. CAll me biased if I believe we all have the right to walk on a public street without beening viewed as suspicious because of our skin color. Call me biased if I believed Trayvon was defending himself from a perceived threat by Zimmerman. I will continue to be emotionally biased as you stated until justice is served in this case. Woe unto them that call good evil and evil good. Zimmerman is responsible and should pay for the death of Trayvon. Call me biased in my emotions I care not. And you should be ashame of yourself. Of all the overwhelming evidence against Zimmerman the right wingers are still defending this man. UNBELIEVABLE! Something is wrong with our soiciety today.


perrya profile image

perrya 4 years ago Author

Okay, then, when is the trial?


Quickvue 4 years ago

@Mr. Perrya: Read Patti's previous post where she referred to Trayvon as an "undesirable" and tell me why you didn't reprimand her for her bias and somewhat racist conclusion and glorification of the death of this black teenager. Birds of a feather do flock together. You and Patti seem to have the same agenda. You just seem to be a little more subtle in your presentation. No matter how you change the spots on a leopard, it will still be a leopard. I see you and Patti for what you all are. SAD!


Quickvue 4 years ago

@Mr. Perrya: The trail is not soon enough.......


Jim 4 years ago

I believe in synchronicity. In my 7 decade life I’ve experienced numerous instances of it. Perhaps the weirdest occured on my birthday in 1976. I took the day off from work but had no one to share it with. I was unhappily involved in a relationship with an engaged woman who was leading me o towards misery. My life was spiraling out of control in many areas and a sense of failure rattled through my brain. I lived in a studio apartment, bare except for a mattress and cat. Hoping to find myself I took LSD about 10:00am. I went through the most intense trip of my life, at one point experiencing the youth of my father, who had been dead for 13 years. At another point I was huddled on a huge plain in Israel with my family and all the Jews that ever lived. Jimmy Cliff was on the radio singing “By the River of Babylon” and I wept copiously as I remembered Zion and felt as one with my tribe.

Around 6:00pm I was coming down from my trip.

I felt wonderful, repurposed in my life/career and at peace with myself. As I lay on my mattress, smoking a Marlboro I realized that I was starving and horny. At the moment I thought that my doorbell rang, which was odd because I never had visitors and almost noone knew my address. At the door was a pretty woman I knew who was a rival of the woman I was seeing on the sly. There was no way I could figure out how she knew my address. Not only that but she had a huge bacon cheeseburger and french fries for me to eat. I ate, we made love and a desolate day had turned perfect in all respects. We never saw eachother again. I stopped seeing the engaged woman. Won a full scholarsip at an Ivy League school and enrolled in the Gestalt Center. Within the next four years I had a career, met the love of my life and began a family.

That trip had revealed to me that rather than being an “outlaw” living on the “edge”, I was a nice Jewish boy from Brooklyn. How that woman arrived at the moment she did bearing food and other favors is to me an example of synchronicity.

At the time I could find no other explanation for it.

It has happened to me many other times, but that was the most memorable.


Patti 4 years ago

For anybody who reads this piece I want to give you the facts, both photo's that we are continually shown are over 5 years old. George Zimmerman is not 250 lbs, he has lost 80 pounds since the old picture was taken. The weight difference between him an Trayvon Martin was only 15 pounds not 100. Still even if their weight was close their knowledge of fighting was very different. Trayvon Martin was studying MMA fighting and George Zimmerman most likely had not had a fight with a man since high school. But all said Trayvon could have very easily beat George Zimmerman to death if George had not defended himself. I don't think ether of them were saints but I do believe the story Zimmerman told the police the night of the shooting. To me it makes no sense that Zimmerman would hunt down Martin to kill him. Second degree murder entails you did not plan to kill but you did want to kill at the moment of the killing. I believe George Zimmerman did not want to kill Trayvon Martin, but felt he had no choice since Trayvon would have killed him if he did not shoot him.


Quickvue 4 years ago

@Patti, Attikos and Mr. Perrya: Patti says: "To me it makes no sense that Zimmerman would hunt down Martin and kill him." Hmmmmm, Patti let me add my "to me" episode to this drama. To me it makes no sense for someone like Zimmerman who said in his police report that Trayvon unnerved him so badly when he circled his car until he had to roll up his windows. Then seconds later when Trayvon ran he chased him. Hmmmm why would you get out your car and chase someone you considered suspicious. You Patti and just like the other wingers on this page and thru Zimmerman your words speak volume. You referred to the deceased Trayvon as an "undesirable". You have no respect for this young man to judge him as such. Trayvon was doing nothing wrong that nite. None of you pathetic right wingers can tell me his crime that nite that justified his killing. Second with all the overwhelming evidence against Zimmerman you still defend this man. Why because you harbor the same sad sentiments as Zimmerman, that Trayvon was suspicious and that he was up to no good and something is wrong with him. You are no better than you and it is ignorant women like you with your racial overtones that handicap justice in our society today. Answer me this question Miss Pattie Cake, if IT HAD BEEN YOUR SON THAT NITE WHO WAS KILLED WOULD YOUR SENTIMENTS BE THE SAME? Until you honestly answer this you should remain silent because everytime you open your mouth you make yourself look like a fool. Either way this verdict goes the Lord above knows for the "eyes are the Lord are in every place beholding the evil and the good." God will render justice. Do you have a problem with that?


Quickvue 4 years ago

@Silly Pattie: Trayvon should have beaten Zimmerman to death. Oh and by the way why is it that the lead dectective did not buy Zimmerman's story and wanted to charge him with manslaughter. You know why because Zimmerman is lying. Explain that one....


quickvue 4 years ago

@Patti: Correct me if I am wrong but initally Zimmerman said Trayvon came up from behind and hit him in the back of the head knocking him to the grown but in the reenactment video Zimmerman states Trayvon was standing in front of him.. Uh, hmmm, well, aahhh... LIAR, LIAR PANTS ON FIRE


perrya profile image

perrya 4 years ago Author

Actually. Z did say he was on his way back to the truck, T startled him from behind, 10 ft away, and challenged him, Yo, do you have a problem? Z said, no problemo. Z was nervous, he looked down to get his phone, within seconds, T had closed in, "you do now", and smacked him first. They scuffled, Z went down on his back. the rest is history.


quickvue 4 years ago

@Mr. Perrya: dementa my friend is getting the best of you. I knew you were a Zimmerman supporters. I see you have climbed down off the fence and taken a stand. Zimmerman has said a lot of things but they have all been lies. Therefore your true racial intentions are now being revealed. You were not there and I was not there but from the evidence of things Zimmerman is in a heap of trouble. Take a look for yourself. He just can't get all his lies together and you dumb wits are suckered in by this liar. SAD! Maybe I believe you have a problem with the darker hue folks. Hmmmmm I am getting real suspicious of you Mr. Perrya. Click on this link and see the lies of your good old boy Zimmerman.. http://bcclist.com/2012/06/13/debating-george-zimm... Someone told me it was worthless to debate with you Zimmmerman supporters........ I will take his advice.........SAD.......


Bob 4 years ago

George Zimmerman was originally processed without any racial influence and lawfully released according to the evidence of the incident. Then the racist groups caught wind of it and decided to use it to stir up their continuing racial strife and woe is me propaganda.

The NAACP effects every community and work place in America in the worst possible way for all Americans as would the KKK if that still existed and accepted. These groups continue to exist because their leaders don't know how to be just plain Americans. Ancestry and skin color description of who you are should be secondary to "I Am an American". These leaders that call themselves reverend are not worthy of reverence as they are the oppressors of the Negro race and a disgrace to our American society.

It is a pity that officials in high places (such as FL State Attorney Angela Corey) and most every personnel department in private and governmental business are influenced and afraid of these racial groups that have no business to exist in a non-racist America as they are the equivalent of a peaceful adaptation of the KKK. Or should it also be tolerated to force a Caucasian agenda?

E.G. All that needs to be done in the work place (for a person of the Negro race) is to protest and threaten to file a complaint and get the NAACP involved and miraculously the rules and regulations that pertain to all workers are over looked for these that are familiar with how the NAACP empowers a racist agenda to them.

And now we all are witnesses to this happening on the highest level as these racist groups and so called reverends rise up with their continued brainwashing unifying their segregated followers and that influences the media to convict a man through public peer pressure that then influences those in authority to appease the organized racist of our day. All in the misconception that they are anti-racist but in reality they are following a racist agenda.

It is not about race, guilt or innocence it is about how the masses are influenced through half-truths and a lack of individualism, patriotism and respect for our countries law and constitution that is in place to protect all citizens equally.

Down with racism! Let us all be individual Americans familiar with our constitutional rights and the laws that govern us. Not in hearsay via group and media influences.

Don't be a group follower! Be an "American" Not a segregated "fill in the blank____ American" Your oppressors will keep you in a segregated group it is an Americans right to be an individual!


perrya profile image

perrya 4 years ago Author

if the facts prove Z started the confrontation, more power to him. But, people who refuse to even listen to facts supported by doctor's and police reports are simply racist themselves.


Tim 4 years ago

I have listened to the audi tapes and they seem to exonerate him. It is zimmerman screaming for help. Hard to argue that with a backup witness who saw him on the ground with the 6'3" "child" on top of him screaming for help. Also, everyone keeps saying the 911 operator told him not to follow martin. This is not true. The operator said "we don't need you to do that". Very different. With the witness, the bloodied nose and head, wet grass stains on his back, he'll walk. He will not be convicted. Rightfully. sorry.


perrya profile image

perrya 4 years ago Author

@Tim, many experts see it the same way. if he walks, he might be a dead man walking.


Quickvue 4 years ago

@Tim: The lead detective said all this would have been avoided if Zimmerman had stayed in his car. No matter which way you flip it, Zimmerman is solely responsible for the death (murder, killing) of Trayvon. Also we live in America where people are judged by their skin color. That is just the way it is. Blacks have caught hell in this country and I can attest to the racial injustices that I have seen and experience. I do not want to pull the race card here but I will if I have to. But there is one thing I have to correct you on that I do not agree with. Zimmerman was half processed and not thoroughly investigated by the incompetent Sanford police department who is in big trouble right about now. Had they followed the suggestion of the lead detective to charge Zimmerman with manslaughter we would not be here now. Second, I believe Zimmerman thought he could get away with killing that young lad. I guess he didn't. Zimmerman profiled Trayvon from the start. Therefore it became racial. "These assholes they always get away." Never thought it was a crime to walk a public street and be viewed as "suspicious" and up to no good. And let us not get into the 50,000 million zillion trillion lies Zimmerman has told. I am saying let justice be served. Zimmerman is a liar and I do not believe he is being truthful. What if this had been your son? I thought so. But remember we live in America which is still a very racist country.. May God help us all...


Orchid 4 years ago

I'd like to point out that although there is racism and discrimination in every culture, every ethnicity and the like, here in Australia one of the big things I've noticed (at least in my town) is that the caucasion population is greatly slandered against with terms so derogatory as being called "white, land-grabbing c****" - and yet, if I (as a caucasian woman) were to ask a young adult aboriginal member to leave their push bike outside of the supermarket I work in, or to show proof of age identification in order to sell them cigarettes, I am labelled as racist - DESPITE never having spoken anything of a racist or discriminatory manner.

So I will ask, why does it seem to be becoming a crime to be a person of caucasian background and/or appearance? We cannot choose our skin colour any more than people of African-American, Mediteranian or Asian appearance or origin.


Tim 4 years ago

@quickvue

That is JUST plain stupid…Blacks are just as racist as Whites…or Asians…for that matter. I know many Blacks who harbour quite a bit of racism, and try to date an Asian woman (particularly Korean)…You will see how quickly she gets harassed by her parents/friends/and the Korean community…

Racism exists among all races. Spike Lee is racist. Al Sharpton is VERY racist. “Racism is mostly a white thing” has got to be one of the most ignorant things I have heard today. I am shocked sometimes by what I hear/read on various Facebook walls from my former Black highschool mates. Recently, one girl posted on my friend’s wall and said that White people are the devil and are responsible for all evil in this world…

I posted that I was very disappointed to see that kind of thing on my friend’s wall, and he apologized and a few people replied, but for the most part, a LOT of people didn’t condemn her for her comment.

So…STOP making generalizations….Are YOU racist? If not, GOOD! But don’t be so ignorant as to claim that racism is mostly White…

Racism IS, however, a flaw/illness that EVERY human is capable of displaying…Our job is to remove this flaw from our daily lives…just as we remove hatred, fear, anger…We are ALL equally capable of being racist, or angry, or negative…and if you choose to host such feelings, you will be the one that suffers. I, like many of the Black, White, and Asian people that I choose to associate with, do NOT allow racism to exist in my heart.


quickvue 4 years ago

@Mr. Perrya: You stated: "if the facts prove Z started the confrontation, more power to him. But, people who refuse to even listen to facts supported by doctor's and police reports are simply racist themselves." LOL... What does the police report prove and I hope you are not talking about the incompetent Sanford Police department who are under scrutiny themselves. Chief Lee has been fired and there has been a history of racial tension between Blacks and the Sanford Police Department. Explain to me why the lead dectective did not believe Zimmerman and wanted to charge him with manslaughter. You are contradicting yourself old man. If you can't listen to the facts against Zimmerman that points to his conviction then you my friend are the biggest Racist. I have my suspicious that you are anyway... You can't fool me. This argument with you gainsayers and Zimmerman supporters is worthless. You all would not know what integrity was if it sat in your laps. And you never answered my question: WOULD YOU BE SAYI NG THE SAME ABOUT ZIMMERMAN THAT YOU ARE NOW IF IT HAD BEEN YOUR SON THAT WAS KILLED THAT NITE? Please answer the question....


QUICKVUE 4 years ago

@Tim: Sorry to be rude but I do not need you to lecture me on what Raicism is and just for your info I am not a Racist. But when you look at all the scenarios of how Zimmerman got himself into this mess do you actually believe Trayvon's race had nothing to do with it? I believe and Zimmerman explain it himself in his 911 call. He judge him because he was black so maybe Zimmerman is the racist here not me. I am just going with the presented facts. Zimmerman called to report a suspicious black male in his community. So you tell me what made Trayvon suspicious even though he was doing nothing wrong? And you are the one generalizing here. We need to stick to what happened that nite. Zimmerman is lying like it is no tommorrow. I take this case to heart because that could have been my son that nite. Trayvon did not deserved to die that nite. The FBI is treating it as a hate case so you are barking up the wrong tree. I think Zimmerman is and should be convicted. LIAR, LIAR, pants on fire........


QUICKVUE 4 years ago

@Tim

If Trayvon had been white that nite do you think Zimmerman would have called 911 on him?


Tim 4 years ago

Yep.


quickvue 4 years ago

@Tim: I disagree. All Zimmerman 911 calls were towards young black males. See you have to be suspicious for Zimmerman to call the PO PO on you. You have to have your hands in your waistband. You have to be just walking about checking out the houses (Of course in the rain.) And don't forgot the hoodie, the arizona ice tea, and skittles, and oh yeah the gold teeth. And don't forget to smoke a joint also. Well, I know this does not describe little proper white boys that lived in Zimmerman's hood so I guess THEY ARE SAFE... Oh yeah, I think another criteria is that you would have had to be BLACK. Why would Zimmerman call 911 on a white teenager? They are not suspicious.....LOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL. You folks crack me up. It's funny but it is not funny at how you all defend Zimmerman then call people racists when in fact you are the racist yourself. Thank God there will be a judgement day. If justice if not served now it will be served later...I am going to be keeping my eyes on you. You one of those slick ones....


Tim 4 years ago

I can not argue with a person who can not think for themself and judges every situation based on the color of their skin. People like you are the biggest obstacle to unity in this country. Your references to white people shitting themselves if they saw you really pisses me off. If you're ever TDY to Ft Sam, just let me know. You retarded, racist motherfucker.


Tim 4 years ago

Just come down to SA if you're looking to get smoked.


QUICKVUE 4 years ago

@Tim: It is inappropriate for you to call folks out of their names. I knew my mother's name and what you attached to the end of it was not her last name. Hmmmmmmm you have me confused with someone that really is concerned about your childish outburst. I will say it again sir, WHAT MADE TRAYVON SUSPICIOUS TO ZIMMERMAN? You can get mad all you want but I am just stating the facts. Zimmerman killed a teenager unecessarily and for what? What if it was your son? Oh my let me say what Zimmerman says how can I be racist when I have white friends? Do me a favor and check out this link: http://bcclist.com/2012/06/13/debating-george-zimm... It is useless agruing with you Zimmerman supporters. What kind of world do we live in where a grown ass man sees it necessary to shoot an unarmed kid just because he looks suspicious. You, my friend, need and ENEMA. And learn to control your anger it is not healthy for you. I was once stationed there at Ft. Sam Houston and I did not find the army to my taste. Can we meet somewhere else? Lunch is on me...


Tim 4 years ago

You represented yourself as still being in. Let me know if you're ever in SA, we can surely chat.


perrya profile image

perrya 4 years ago Author

Yes. Race has nothing to do with this as you seem to be trying so hard to do. The report that supports much of what Z stated is the independent doctor report that confirms all the injuries, which many state are lies. There is circumstantial evidence to support some of what he states. The problem for the prosecution is that there is NO eyewitness to the confrontation and T is dead, the only possible one besides Z. Everything else is before or after. All of the other material does not show alot: calling another asshole is so common, means nothing. Z would have said if the T was purple. His use of asshole was in the context as " suspected criminals". This condo had five robberies before this which is why they wanted someone to watch over it. The store T walked from was a mile away, why does he choose to this route that he was unfamilar with? His father had no idea what his son was doing as he shacked up with a girlfirend. Finally, he gets concerned (by now T was dead) and calls police to report his son missing in a very calm manner-very weird. Most parents would be freaking. The tape speaks for itself.


QUICKVUE 4 years ago

@Perrya: You are entitled to your opinion as I am entitled to mine. I do not believe Zimmerman would have reported

Trayvon if he had been white. You can defend him all you want so I will defend Trayon. Zimmerman has established himself as a liar. Just because he had injuries on him does not mean he is innocent. Maybe Trayvon was fighting for his life. To say Zimmerman was in a fight for his life his injuries do that indicate it. And what does Trayvon's dad shacking up with his girlfriend have to do with Trayvon walking from the store minding his business. You Mr. Perrya need an enema also. I pray that Zimmerman outcome is equivalent to what he did to Trayvon. And most normal people would be outrage over the killing of Trayvon but where is your outrage? And you never answered my questions did you? So If I referred to you as "trailer trash" (that is what I heard folks called ignorant poor red necks) would it be ok? You said watch over the condo not to chase people and confront them. Either way it goes Zimmerman is screwed. He should have stayed in the car? He should have not followed the young man? He should have listen to wiser advice. So let him pay for his bad judgement. Maybe he can stay at your house. I have no sympathy for Zimmerman. And you can believe that. I just hope and pray Angela Corey produces her special evidence against this loser. Let the trail begin.....


Tim 4 years ago

I'm out tonight. Perrya, your points are valid. Unfortunately it sounds like the typical dysfunctional American family. Not a black, white, yellow dysfuctional family quickvue. This is a tragedy in America and should not revolve around the color of a person's skin. Good night.


QUICKVUE 4 years ago

@Tim: I take it you must be in the Army: Hmmmmmm I will be thru pretty soon but further on down the road from you to the Navy Base. But I prefer we meet in Sanford, Florida and talk this out like grown military men. Let us TAKE A STAND face to face on what we differ. No cussing is allowed.. Remember we represent the military 24/7. Agreed?


perrya profile image

perrya 4 years ago Author

Angela may get manslaughter.I think because you calling complete strangers various names etc., clearly indicate that you are totally biased and if the trial (not trail, as you keep spelling it) does not go in T favor, you will be one of those to state it is "white man's law" and hate non-blacks further. You clearly would not be selected on a jury, which will be huge problem in this case. But, I am sure there must be some open, unbiased people who will just look at the facts and law, like I am. Most everything outside of the 90 sec of confrontation has little meaning, IMO. Z's defense is stand your ground law, will T's attorney prove Z was racist, hunting him down like an animal and with premeditation want to kill him, miracles happen.


QUICKVUE 4 years ago

@Mr. Perrya: Well, forgive my typos but I am not perfect. If I am biased then what are you? Don't patronize me Mr. Perrya. Read the link I sent you. It is worthless to agrue with you Zimmerman supporters... Let me know of any more typos I have. Sorry.....Angela Corey went for 2nd degree murder.. Oh boy this is getting interesting.. I never heard you disclaim all the lies Zimmerman has told. Do you usually believe what a liar tells you? Have a good day.


perrya profile image

perrya 4 years ago Author

Yes, his wife did lie to the court. if z is lying, we'll find out. Too premature now.


quickvue 4 years ago

@Tim: If it is such a tragedy then who is responsible for the unfolding events? ZIMMMMERMAN PERHAPS. You talk about racial equality and say that I am the racist when I defend Trayvon and judge Zimmerman on the facts presented. I am going on the facts presented. What facts about Trayvon are pertinent to what Zimmerman did? Tell me. And just to set the record straight If anyone was killed like Trayvon, be they white, yellow, blue, green. or slightly pink. then the prepretrator should be held accountalbe. So stop twisting my view into racial overtones. Zimmerman had a problem with black guys because of the the robberies in his complex. Those that committed the robberies were wrong. If they were black guys then they were wrong. But you all seen to not see Zimmerman for what he is. Therefore I say it is you all that have the problem. If Zimmerman had been black and Trayvon white I say the same, Zimmerman is responsible. Are we clear on this now? The lead dectective did not believe Zimmerman: Why? Because Zimmeran is a big fat lying piece of slime. My heart is grieved over the death of this teenager whom the right wingers have tried to smear. But I believe in karma and from what I have heard she is a bitch... I believe in justice. And Justice should be color blind. Tell me Tim, why was Trayvon suspicious to Zimmerman that nite?


Quickvue 4 years ago

@Mr. Perrya: Zimmerman is Lying.............You are just in denial.....


perrya profile image

perrya 4 years ago Author

What else can be said until the trial. Not much.let's just wait....


Steve 4 years ago

George Zimmerman is not on trial because he shot a black teenager during a scuffle. It's not the facts of the case that brought him here. It's his name. Had his last name been Pereira, none of this would have gone anywhere. And it's not the name alone, it's that in this time and place lynching him will help make the political fortunes of everyone from the man in the White House to his cheerful smiling prosecutor who is already counting her campaign cash and book deals.

Zimmerman with his book of quotations from the great thinkers of history, a man who clearly believes in the old fashioned virtues, is particularly ill-equipped to understand what is being done to him and why. The quotation that he plastered on flyers while investigating the beating of a homeless black man and on his own website, is more apt than he realizes.

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is indeed that good men do nothing, but as a corollary to it, those are exactly the sort of men that evil will go after. It does no good to read Burke quotations to a Kardashian society which makes its determinations not on truth or justice, but on its omnipresent need for entertainment. Trying to reason with it only makes it angrier. Talking about virtues and decency to people who have none either confuses them or infuriates those few who understand the concept in some distant way.

We aspire to behave the way that George Zimmerman did, to contribute to our communities, to defy the conventional wisdom and speak out when we see wrongdoing. We believe that all that is needed for the triumph of evil is for good people to do nothing. And we are only a misstep away from being George Zimmerman, from doing the wrong thing, from intervening in the wrong fight, drawing the wrong cartoon or saying the wrong thing at the wrong time, a heartbeat away from appearing at the bar of the kangaroo court of stage managed public opinion.

In our own way we are all George Zimmerman. We think that society should be moral and rational, and that people should do the right thing. But that's not what it is. It's an insane braying donkey's laugh as the thieves, large and small, rob the people blind and then muscle them into a lynch mob to go after some handy victim. It's George today, it will be someone else tomorrow. Maybe someone who even deserves it. But it won't be the people destroying the country, because they're the ones leading the mob.

George Zimmerman has been chosen to serve as a gladiator in the circus that distracts a bankrupt nation from the criminal folly of its leaders, large and small. He has been assigned white team colors, had an NRA badge pinned to his lapel, and is being shoved out into the stadium while the lunatic mob howls for blood. The Emperor of Hope and Change has already made the thumbs down gesture, the courtiers are rushing out to fix the match.

Like Kafka's protagonist, Zimmerman has been protesting all along that this is some sort of mistake. And he's right. It is a mistake. Had the engineers behind the lynch mob gotten a good look at his photo, they might have pulled back and looked for a better victim. Someone who more properly fit their bicoastal idea of a "cracker" to string up on the crooked scales of Lady Justice. But once a mob has gotten started, it's hard to shut it down. And there's no real need to stop.

In the past, a media organ that reported a blatant lie might have at least paused on getting caught, but we live in a post-fact society now. The only thing that happens is that the media shrugs and doubles down on the narrative. George Zimmerman isn't white? Just call him a white-hispanic. Insist that Latinos are really white even though your entire practice has been to loudly scream the opposite. Accuse anyone who points out that Zimmerman doesn't look much like Larry the Cable Guy of being a racist. Problem solved.

Zimmerman thinks it's a mistake because he's not guilty. But as Kafka might have told him, guilt or innocence has little to do with it. Zimmerman wasn't indicted on charges of shooting a man, but of being a racist, of being the living embodiment of American inequality, NRA lawmaking and a dozen other sins. These are not charges that he can ever shake, because they are not legal crimes, they are political crimes.

The true charges against Zimmerman are 'class charges', they indict him as the representative of a class, white racists, gun owners and the entire heteronormative patriarchal class of men who quote Edmund Burke, carry guns and feel entitled to trail troubled black teenagers in their community. Lynching Zimmerman is not about putting one man away, it is about putting everyone away. It is about the absolute triumph of the system and its ideology and about putting the individualist in his place, in a small cell and an orange jumpsuit.

The original title of "The Trial" was "The Process" and we are always in the middle of a process. The process begins before we are born and ends only when our bodies and estates are disposed of to the complete satisfaction of the system. The point of Kafka's book was not whether the defendant was innocent or guilty. The point of the process was the process. The purpose of the trial was the trial.

We are all on trial under the system. That is the nightmare that Kafka anticipated. It is a reality that was already taking hold in the Soviet Union even while he was writing. The purpose of the trial is the absolute power of the system and its ability to snatch up anyone, examine them and then dispose of them. The theater of the trial informs everyone who lives under the system that they are at its mercy.

The very randomness of choosing Zimmerman, the contempt for the basic facts of the case, has become part of the message. The message is the same. The facts don't matter. The decision making process doesn't matter. Leave your evidence and your Burke quotations at home and watch how the wheels spin, the gears grind and the blood flows. The message is that the system is absolute and there is no escape.

This is evil. It is the very essence of evil. It is an evil that Zimmerman could not have seen coming or understood when he was out patrolling his community. It's an evil that is all around us. We can catch glimpses of it on the evening news, in the sneers of anchormen, the practiced smiles of politicians, it's there in Angela Corey's helpless grin, it's there in the mountains of paperwork, the lines of tiny print, the lines of people waiting at bulletproof windows, the morality mobs forming up digitally for the next victim to string up, the next popular opinion to enforce, the next skull to crush.

The beast that is doing its best to swallow up Zimmerman knows no facts or truths, it has no virtues, only goals. It cares nothing for what he did or did not do. Its only goal is to swallow him whole. It has eyes made of cameras, teeth made of guns, network cables for guts, a mind made of slogans and a nervous system that always needs stimulation. The beast may fail in its task, but it will let out a brief howl and move on to the next victim.

For all that the beast seems terrible to Zimmerman now, it is no larger than Obama's water dog, it is one of a thousand such animals wandering through studios, courtrooms, legislative offices, chambers and all the corridors of power. If it should fail, it will break up into a thousand pieces, the reporters will go back home, the racial hucksters will head to the next trouble spot, the protesters will go back to hanging out on street corners, the cops will ride past them, the prosecutor will treat it as a learning experience, the lawyers will add it to their calling card, and the politicians will sniff the air waiting to see which way the wind blows.

In movies trials end in some larger conclusion, some lesson learned, some principle defended. That will not happen here. The people who run our system no longer believe in those things. They don't read Burke, they don't even hang Andy Warhol on their walls, he has become too structured for them. There are no more lessons except the lesson of power, the grand game of guilt and terror, the spectators crowding

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