How To Be Informed About American HealthCare 2013 - 2016

The Answers


Individual Worth and Healthcare

My opinions about healthcare and health status begin with a threefold foundation:

  1. As the planet Earth becomes increasingly populated in its habitable regions, each individual continues to retain his or her worth.
  2. Individuals have the responsibility to maintain effective health habits to the best of their abilities throughout the lifespan.
  3. Healthcare should be affordable and available to the largest number of residents in the US as possible.

With these three stances in mind, I answer a question about American government involvement in healthcare per HR 3200 or America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 (Introduced in House) as it is listed online in full at the website of the Thomas Jefferson Library within the Library of Congress.

The Shark on Hubpages asked "Are you afraid of government run healthcare?" - probably nationwide as either 1) an option or 2) an eventuality in the United States, because America has some government run health systems already.

I have witnessed both effective and ineffective healthcare services provided by Medicaid, Medicare, State University Student Health Systems, and the Veteran's Administration to persons that have been my patients, clients, students, and friends. Healthcare operated by any person, private group, agency, or government department will produce successes and failures and this is to be expected. However, my overarching concern is the case of avoidable and unnecessary failures.

Other Nations

Hubber LondonGirl has written a series of pertinent and well crafted Hubs about UK National Health Service and seems happy with the overall system and the care that she and her child receive in England.

In preparing resumes and portfoilios for healthcare professionals in Ontario, Canada, I have been informed by nurses that the Canadian system - in Ontario, for each Province has its own - pays only up to 37% of the bill. The patient is responsible for the rest of the costs and private health insurance sales have begun - and risen. The waiting times at private physycians' offices and clinics is said to be shorter than that at the Provincial care sites. I am surprised about all this and need to research the Canadian Provincial healthcare further.

Life and Death - Costs and Choices

As a child, I always believed that certain things should be free to every human being. These are water, adequate light and heat, and healthcare.

My young logic was that if water falls from the sky, why should we be made to pay for it? Even after visiting a water treatment plant and realizing the effort and costs involved in producing water for consumption, I still thought water should be free.

I also thought it should be a crime to allow anyone to die because they had no heat in winter or because they could not pay for healthcare. Healthcare will likely never be free, because it is expensive to provide - not only the assessments and evaluations, equipment, office space and other overhead, treatment, and prescriptions, but also the education and training of healthcare professionals. However, healthcare has become a big business in some areas of practice and some areas of the country, and perhaps this could be mellowed.

HR 3200 is long - 1,017 pages - and complex in spots, but I think everyone should read the entire bill. If readers have questions or fears about any part of this bill, then I believe they need to contact their Congressmen about it and insist upon answers.

Approximately 10,000 people in Central Ohio were alarmed about 1) page 425 of HR 3200, and 2) an increase in city income tax of $50/10K of income and protested at the state capitol on August 1, 2009. Some I have spoken with state that they received form letters from their Congressmen, but no answers. If so, then this is one of the avoidable failures I mentioned earlier. If answers cannot be given, then some people will likely become angry and afraid.


Ominous Page 425 - End Times Counseling

Historically, and even in some places today, when civilizations are encroached upon by decreasing resources among an increasing population, they observe traditions of female infanticide and elder euthanasia.


The American Fearful see forced euthanasia on Page 425 of HR 3200, where none is so stated. If the feared provisions for end of life counseling that are stated were to be misapplied, then there would be reason to fear. However, that misapplication is not a certainty.

The American Fearful see the phenomenon as a little like Alice in her wonderland - backed into a corner of a strange room by an advancing chessboard floor pattern that threatens to gobble her up. Does she fight, flee, or simply die? There are three choices and the third is to give up and die or to negotiate or reson the situation to positive results. The fearful need to obtain the facts before panicking and communicate with their Congressmen in order to understand HR 3200 and to ask for changes to the bill, if they want them.

Spring-boarding into the 21st Century from visible beginnings in the latter half of the 20th, a type of “euthanasia movement” has grown more visible and acceptable. Some individuals want to be able "to die with dignity", as they say, with the help of a physician. From time to time, the news is full of assisted death cases and the battles over whether this is moral and legal.

This is revolting to those that would choose to live at any cost -- Growing numbers are concerned or upset and at least in my state, they believe that end of life counseling would be forced upon them every 6 months, with growing insistance upon euthanasia as the best choice in the light of advanging age and declining health status. HR 3200 does not state this, but indicates that a change in health condition would trigger patient counseling and education about the end of life and its related choices, particularly power of attorney, living wills, and the like. We hope that this would not be misapplied with a heavy hand.

For reference, some physicians themselves foresee a trend toward a type of enforced euthansia in America and one of these individuals is Dr. Richard Swier. He publishes a blog about this and other health issues at Red County at government assisted suicide.


Some of the same fearful folks do not want their tax dollars to pay for abortions for a couple of reasons: 1) some believe it is murder and 2) some do not want to pay taxes - or to allow taxes to aide anyone that does not work. They fear overly high taxes. At the same time, some people use abortion as birth control and it is certainly a way of decreasing a population where resources are scant. Abortions stand at an average of at least a few 1,000s per day in the US in 2009, according to NIH stats.

So, we're a little like the historic, and some present-day, cultures that have culled the youngest and the oldest in order for the group to continue to exist. In the face of lack of resources and overpopulation, it may be easier to see less value in an infant, a senior citizen, or a disabled person.

A Good Question

What is Basic Healthcare under the Healthcare Reform Package? I hope to determine that as I continue to read HR 3200.

I also want to know 1) how much the new government healthcare plan will cost an individual and a family per year and 2) if the plan will be legally mandatory for adults that have no other health insurance.

Other Thoughts

Will America become the futurist story Logan’s Run, with the mandatory terminal age of 21 raised to 62, 70, or 75? Rumors of this have circulated since at least the early 1990s.

Will there be a real Logan’s Run 2010? Might seniors and the disabled be seen running - or wheeling – away from an early death sentence? Star Trek: The Next Generation (1987 – 1994) presented an episode about planned termination as a boon to an alien society and a valuable tradition. Such treatments make the notion seem more acceptable. Is it a possibility here?

Regardless of the language on Page 425 of HR 3200, some people are afraid of forced euthanasia. If their Congressmen cannot provide them with effective answers and education about this portion of HR 3200 in particular, then fear may escalate into panic. That is an avoidable failure.

Again, I think everyone needs to read HR 3200 and put related questions to their Congressmen.

At the same time, it is possible that factions wishing HR 3200 defeated for political reasons may attempt to create panic by spreading rumors about mandatory euthanasia. The best inoculation against such fear is accurate information and we need each to look for it.

It is also wise for individuals to take responsibility for their own health to the extent that they are able, in order to have a more enjoyable life and to refrain from overburdening the overall healthcare system of the nation. After all, being 200 pounds overweight because of overeating, while smoking 5 packs of cigarettes a day, and demanding free healthcare is a bit unreasonable.

More by this Author

Opinions & Facts 39 comments

Tom T profile image

Tom T 7 years ago from Orange County, CA

I too have done quite a bit of research on this topic. I have a few real problems. With 80% of the population satisfied with their health care, why change now? When we raised the national debt from 9T to 11T so far this year, why add this expense?

Now the real scary part is how they intend allocate care. There are two parts to the equation, the first is called the quality-adjusted-life-year (QALY) and the other is Comparative Effectiveness Research methodology. This is how they will ration care and decide who gets care and who does not.

I too implore everyone to become informed.

eovery profile image

eovery 7 years ago from MIddle of the Boondocks of Iowa

Interesting hub. I, personally, am afraid of it.

I just hope all of congress read it first. And second, how is it going to be paid for? This is a biggie, also? We just can't keep trying to make the rich pay for it, because there will come a time that they will get tired of the taxes and move to other countries, and take their money and jobs with them.

And I can't even think about terminating lives early. We do it to the unborn, and now we are thinking about doing it to the elderly? This is murder, short and simple. And if this is what the health-care is about, I will fight it tooth and nail! It is just wrong.

Thanks for the info.

Keep on Hubbing!

dohn121 profile image

dohn121 7 years ago from Hudson Valley, New York

I share your point of view with reading HR3200. The concerned citizens in this country need to know exactly what they are afraid of before they make generalized notions about Health Care reform. However, the point that the bill is not clear on certain topics and the reluctance of Congress to respond to pertinent questions also makes me wonder where we are really headed. One thing for sure is that much still has to be deliberated before anyone of us can feel completely secure going into this historic period in our country. Thanks for sharing this important topic of discussion, Patty.

catlyn 7 years ago

The fact is I am informed ... NOT Afraid.. but I can see the writing on the wall and I am VERY CONCERNED !!!

The Shark profile image

The Shark 7 years ago from Hampton, NH

Hi Patty,

Just a few comments:

You say water should be free, yet you acknowledge the cost of treatment and delivery of the product. So it is impossible for it to be free. What you mean is that someone else should pay through income transfer to give the apperance that water is free. This is what the govt does with many programs.

Take the cash for clunkers program, people getting a check for $4500. for an old car from the govt. But is it really from the govt? Where did they get this money from? The govt produces nothing, sells nothing, they get the money fromm tax payers.

So again we have a situation of money transfer from one group to buy cars for someone else. istead of deficit spending to buy someone a car, why not give a 25% tax deduction on the price of the car to any buyer between now and dec.31st?

You know why? Because how many of those turning in vehicles even pay income tax?

On the coment about abortion: I personaly am not a believer in abortion. I hear the pro-abortion crowd tell us it's not life yet. It's not? Having had a daughter that was born 3.5 months premature tells me it very much is a baby. I'll add that my daughter is 24 yrs old. So if they could do that 24 years ago, how far can they reach to save a child today?

This is the same crowd that would celebrate some microrganism found on Mars as life. Yet a fetus is not?

On euthanasia: Obama himself has said that maybe an older person should consider a pain pill rather than surgery or treatment. Really? I don't think that my father would have appreciated that comment. he was 78 and in great health and had a very sharp mind. He was still out painting his house in the summer. Then he was told he had a very aggresive form of prostate cancer. They said they could not cure it.

But with surgery, some radiation and chemo he got 10 more quality years of life to spend with my mother, as he remained very active durng that period.

Would the Obama plan have allowed for all of this treatment, or would we have had to follow his suggeation of a pain pill and hospice?

My wife died of breast cancer, again they didn't give us much hope from the outset. But they felt that she was young and maybe that would help the fight. So we went through the plan including a lot of chemo, she was gone in two years. But we got two great years together and our daughter had her mother for two more years.

Would she have gotten this treatment under the Obama plan?

I think it is best if the govt stays out of personal care. They are in the process of demonizing the insurance companies now to help sell their plan. Why?? If it can't be sold on it's own merits then it should not be sold at all.

They even have a link on the web to turn people in that you hear, i.e. radio shows, or web sites, that question the plan.

Can you imagine, asking Americans to turn in Americans for speaking or having a differing opinion?

How would that have been treated if that was something Bush had requsted?

But our loyal Obama media questions nothing, even goes so far as to ridicule Americans that are turning out for rallies or town halls voicing their opinion against the plan, calling them a "mob".

How come it wasn't a mob outside President Bush's ranch when the angry crowd was protesting the Iraq war?

Or the angry Hollywood crowd staging rallies against the war or in favor of having open borders wasn't a mob?

Even if you took out 100% of the salaries that are paid to the top 10 health insurers in the country the savings to payers would be .05%. Yet the admin. is out there talking about salaries as being one of the major expenses in health ins.

How many salaries and bureaucrats will be tied to this plan? How many more govt union jobs will be added to it over the next ten years?

There are so many reasons to keep the govt out of this.

So I for one am calling my useless congressman to ask several questions:

< What diseases are covered and for how long?

< What meds will be approved and for how long?

< Will the congress and senate join all Americans and go on the same plan?

As my high school geometry teacher used to say: It's that simple.

The Shark---keep our health care private

Smireles profile image

Smireles 7 years ago from Texas

A balanced look at the healthcare reform discussion. Becoming informed is the first step in establishing your position.

Patty Inglish, MS profile image

Patty Inglish, MS 7 years ago from North America Author

Thank for all the comments, and they all make good points!

Yeah, I still think water should be free. In one place (can't remember the name, hope someone else can) in California, they reduce the cost of water treatment with a huge greenhouse type of arrangement. The "dirty" water is run through the plant roots along a long route of large green plants growing form the moving waters and comes out the other end clean. No chemicals and fewer workers. I'd be happy for my taxes to pay for this :)

Our church has seen several people completely healed from cancer without surgery or chemo, but people should have it if they want it imo, and I agree that an admonition to "take a pain pill" instead is not good.

The Shark profile image

The Shark 7 years ago from Hampton, NH

Ok, that's great but it's still not free. You just said you'd like your tax dollars to go for that---that makes it not free.

The Shark

Patty Inglish, MS profile image

Patty Inglish, MS 7 years ago from North America Author

Ha ha, just free of extra utilities charges -- Free enough for me, if taxes are required anyway. LOL Thanks for the fun.

Patty Inglish, MS profile image

Patty Inglish, MS 7 years ago from North America Author

That reminds me of a quip from one of my supervisors years ago: "When I lived in Denmark, everything seemed to be free, but taxes were 70% for everyone."

eovery profile image

eovery 7 years ago from MIddle of the Boondocks of Iowa


I am trying to stay out of these type of hubs and discussion, but I must enter here.

The point is things are not free in the world everyone is tied in this together and everyone need to be a part of it. No freerides. Everyone has to try to do their best to do their part of they can. If they have things that hinder this, then that is a different story. Things are not free in this world. Until people realize this, then we will have free loaders and those that try to beat the system and do not put in a honest day's work for a honest days' pay. And some put in no work.

I would like everything to be free, and I will work for free, but it just doesn't work like that. Maybe in a perfect world, but we are not there. There is not a bill of rights on water, food, housing nor health care. The last time I check these things had to be paid. We have our choices. I like to have the freedom and choice. Please do not let the liberals take away my freedom, just because they think they are improving the world. "Give me freedom or give me death" are still great words.

Great thoughts, but the reality is that it doesn't work that why money and other things were constituted for our use to make things work.

Keep on Hubbing, you are a great writer, and I watch your style and learn.

Patty Inglish, MS profile image

Patty Inglish, MS 7 years ago from North America Author

Thanks for the coments! I certainly do NOT want to pay a 70% income tax rate and I do not support the "entrenched welfare mentality" of freerides. Many state governments(34) are reportedly considering turing DOWN the health care reform bill requirements on the basis of the 10th Amendment and states' rights. So the bill HR 3200 may be moot!

And by the way, for drinking and cooking, I purchase spring water becuase our city water supply has antibiotics, nacrcotics, birth control, and other medications in it that have not been able to be filtered out by our water treatment facility. If taken internally, I develop horrid rashes and worse because I am allergic to many meds.

Anyway, I would like fewer taxes, and better USE of FEWER taxes, as in the plant-root water filtration system. I think the option of the fair tax or flat tax of 23% sales tax across the board is TOO HIGH. I would be OK with 15%.

lelanew55 profile image

lelanew55 7 years ago

Gee! having the choice to keep the private insurance that you already have if you want or to choose other health insurances if you don't like your insurance is not freedom. As it is now you have few choices that are affordable. And most people can't choose any doctor they want with the system we have. The Obama health insurance reform is trying to give us more freedom by making health care insurance affordable and by reforming the system so that we have quality and not wasteful health care delivery. Go to Health Care For America Now website there will be an explanation for most of your concerns. This is not a liberal or conservative issue. It is a human issue. Whether we are liberal or conservative we are all one serious sickness away from finding out the system as it is now is broke and doesn't serve us well. Unless we are extremely rich and dish out exorbitant amount of money to pay the insurance companies.

Patty Inglish, MS profile image

Patty Inglish, MS 7 years ago from North America Author

Thanks for that side of things!

Kitchen_Witch profile image

Kitchen_Witch 7 years ago from The Green Studio of Musings

The greatest health care reform is not going to come from congress or the white house. It is through the informed consumer. Health care costs are high because of many factors, and government involvment is not the answer.

We are. Take the time to find out how much, before you just wander off to the pharmacy, or swipe that insurance card. Hospital costs are hyper inflated to shift the cost of that new equipment, and pay for emergency room costs that will never be recovered.

Whether they were warranted or not, Extra tests to cover the butt of the doctor, or to appease the insurance company so they will approve the one proceedure that the doctor feels necessary. Before you go get those tests ask why? how much ? If what you heard doesnt make sense, ask more questions. Ask the doctor to explain instead of throwing up your hands. The world would run a whole lot better if people will get back in touch with thier common sense.

If they don't have any research getting some. When in doubt ask an old person. If we don't turn them all into Soylent Green........

The Shark profile image

The Shark 7 years ago from Hampton, NH

Correct lelanew55, I agree, these insurance companies actully charge rates based on actuarial numbers that are constanly changing. The have to make sure they don't go banrupt---who do they think they are. We as Americans have a right to health insurance, I think it's in the declaration of independance or one of those outdated bill of rights.

I agree, the govt should run this, that way we can be assured that costs will be controlled.

I doubt the govt would ever let a program grow out of control.

I think these insurance companies times have come and gone.

I say screw them and the thousands of employees they have too.

I agree that this is a human issue, so in that spirit I am writing my congressman to ask if they can just absorb the drug co's too. Why should they be allowed to make a profit on a drug.

They think they have some kind of right just because they invest millions into research and development--so what, this is a hunman issue and should not be a business.

I would support the govt actully taking over the hospitals too. Then the cost containment would be incredible.

Americans would probably be the healthiest people in the world, and would probably have the longest longevity.

While we're getting ris of ins. co's I'm for getting rid of those "life Insurance" companies too. Life insurance are hey joking, the premiums alone will kill you.

They too follow these ridiculous mortality tables of life expentancy and expect you to take a physical to qualify.

I think this is a human issue, if the govt could take over life ins, we could all have guaranteed life insurance at a fraction of the cost because mortality wouldn't matter any more. The govt has plent of money to fund a flat premium for us.

This would be a great plan for widows and children, it would help to keep them in their homes and pay thier bills.

In Ma we had state run car insurance for twenty years, unfortuantely it failed as costs spiraled out of control, and good drivers were being heavily penalized to subsidize bad drivers. When they got dropped the plan and brought back private insurers my annual premium went from $1840. to $918.

I felt so guilty, what about those bad drivers that had to pay so much more now?

I felt that this was a human issue and petitioned the state to get back in the business again.

We could probably have this done on a national basis and then we could all pay a flat rate for our car ins. we'd have no more uninsured drivers, because the uninsured would automatically be covered. This would be a real human thing to do, and we'd be rid of those pesky private insurance companies that are interested in profits.---can you imagine?

Let's all pray Obama is successful and gets us govt health ins,, then govt life ins, then govt car ins.

He's talked about food banks in commercails, nmaybe he could get the fed to take over those huge profit driven food store, you know place like stop and shop.

This would be a great human issue, there would be no more hungry in America, Everyone person that can't afford food would get a card to shop for free. Imagine how successful that plan would be if the govt could nationalize the farms. Then we'd have great cost control, the govt would own the food from seed to plant too your table.

Wow--- I am sure the founding fathers never dreamed of what they started.

The Shark

Tom T profile image

Tom T 7 years ago from Orange County, CA

Sorry I must step in here. The argument that you can keep private insurance is an empty promise. You get the insurance you company offers you. Your company can pay for your insurance or get the "free" stuff the government is giving away. Which one do you think you are going to get?

Even still the government does not have to make a profit. The insurance company does. Who do you think is going to have the cheapest price? It is not a fair fight and sooner or later the government will swallow the whole market.

The argument that the system is broke doesn't hold water either. Surveys report that 70% to 80% of the people are happy with their health care.

Finally if this is not a conservative/liberal issue, why reference a sight that on the main page urges people to fight back against "right wing scare tactics". Sounds a political fight to me.

I've read a great of this legislation and it scares the heck out of me. The way this is being rammed down the throats tells me this is not about improving health care... it is about power.

The Shark profile image

The Shark 7 years ago from Hampton, NH

Hi Tom, correct, the US govt should never be in competition with private companies. The govt certainly has an advantage of the check book funded by the tax payers. As for them making profits? It would never happen. Fannie May, the one product they have that should have operated in the black just asked for another 10.7 Billion Dollar bailout yesterday.

We open the door and who knows where this will lead to.

Health care today, life ins, banks, farms---who knows.

Then we have become Russia, as Russia struggles to become the US.

We already had our 1st incident in NH of one citizen turning in another on the White House snitch line.

He simply made a comment on the blog of the nashua nh paper about the health bill. He mentioned that in NH Obama's health care will learn what it means to be from the granite state. He quoted the motto on the lic plates of nh--"live free or die."

He's already recieved a call from the secret service!!

Check it if you want, Michael Ghram has it posted to his site,

you can also find his site just google wtkk.

The Shark

Patty Inglish, MS profile image

Patty Inglish, MS 7 years ago from North America Author

I believe this is the link:

Live Western profile image

Live Western 7 years ago

Great information and good questions. I will be reading more from you.

Patty Inglish, MS profile image

Patty Inglish, MS 7 years ago from North America Author

Thanks for reading and making a comment!

BILyE profile image

BILyE 7 years ago

Hi Patty,

I just posted my first Hub and could not avoid this very same subject. I will have to check Londongirl's hub because I grew up under the English health care system but have also experienced the US military system for the last 19 years and have witnessed how my German relatives receive care.

I find it interesting that you raise the old Darwinian premis of 'survival of the fittest' it was not veiled well enough for me not to see it and I truly believe that is one of the causes the gut fear people have over this issue. People have this feeling in the pit of their stomach like may be they read the book of this current government before. 1984 was it called? Snitch line send chills up your spine anyone????

Euthenasia is a cause close to my heart not only because it has been a well debated subject in England for a long time, I even remember it was an essay question for for an O level exam, but more importantly because of my German side. Let's not forget that Hitler used the Darwinian concept of survival of the fittest, of a superior race ,to persuade an entire population to at the least stick their head in the ground while he murdered millions of people.

Now to the issue of abortion that you call 'culling' the young. Another issue close to my heart since I was once 10 minutes from death while still in my mother's womb. Yes, the Doctor had been paid and my mother was delivered to the clinic by my father. Thank God for her German pride, she did not like what she saw and felt that she and the other women were being treated like cattle brought to the slaughter house and thank God for the nuns who told her they would help raise the child- me. My parents married eventually and I have been a very productive citizen on this earth. There are ample resources for all in this world, choosing to 'cull' the young and the old is simply a greedy excuse.

But these are ongoing arguments back to Health care.

I think Shark makes some interesting points and yes cost control is at the core BUT I am afraid he must be looking at the Government through rose coloured glasses when he says

" I doubt the govt would ever let a program grow out of control."

Has he forgotten the case of Social Security?? Can you vote for something based on a hope or a doubt that something won't happen based on lessons from history????? Really???

Shark makes this comment just after he cited the case of MA's car insurance programm having gone under because "unfortuantely it failed as costs spiraled out of control, and good drivers were being heavily penalized to subsidize bad drivers." Isn't that what is happening also with their attempt at state run health care??????

Save the Real Democracy


Patty Inglish, MS profile image

Patty Inglish, MS 7 years ago from North America Author

I don't like the fact that some societies still eliminate the young and the old in the face of resource shortages, and I think not all shortages are real. My point was to show that such healthcare systems are no different than less developed socieites that some "civilized" folks look upon as lower life forms. If we decide to elminate the young and the old, we are no better.

I have met a woman from UK that was an aborted infant who lived. Having Cerebral Palsy, she runs a full marathon every year on her toes and speaks for pro-life.

Thanks for the comments!

Hmrjmr1 profile image

Hmrjmr1 7 years ago from Georgia, USA

Interesting reading, well thought, confirms my point in other hubs HR 3200 is not the answer lets hope the senate does better and some one steps up and explains it clearly withoput the left or right slant.

Patty Inglish, MS profile image

Patty Inglish, MS 7 years ago from North America Author

I think HR 3200 has some clauses that may not work - I have seen may large protests here up-close, of people very angered by proprosed mandatory govt access to personal checking accounts. We have protest groups from all points of view at every large intersection in town now as well. Tensions are very high.

The Shark profile image

The Shark 7 years ago from Hampton, NH

Apparently Bilye doesn't get satire. If she understood what I wrote she would have understood I was knocking all the believers that think their being told the straight on this thing. Every govt program has grown out of proportion, it's why we shouldn't start them.

Bilye, go to my hub and read "health care a human issue" maybe then you'll geet where i'm coming from.

Patty, they require your chk info for two reasons. Billed services not covered by the plan will be debited instantly, second if you fail to pay your govt insurance premium your wages will be garnished---who's running this thing the IRS?

I can see this turning into a seperate payroll tax in the future as Americans fail to send in their premium check to the govt.

It's why they started payroll deducted income tax, how many people would be behind if they had to actually write a check each month to the govt?


Mighty Mom profile image

Mighty Mom 7 years ago from Where Left is Right, CA

Hi Patty,

Your hub is excellent -- well researched (thanks for doing all that reading!) and coherent. What really strikes me, however, is that you have managed to attract respectful, intelligent debate in the ocmments! That's a feat unto itself. I find it's good to understand what is underneath people's fears so they can be addressed. Hopefully, Congress will take the same approach. MM

Patty Inglish, MS profile image

Patty Inglish, MS 7 years ago from North America Author

Hi Shark -- Yes, it sounds like the IRS is the administrator of the program, does it not?

Mighty Mom - Thanks! There are some features of the bill that if misapplied, could have horrible consequences.

Plants and Oils profile image

Plants and Oils 7 years ago from England

This is a very interesting and thoughtful hub, thanks for taking the time to write it.

I'm British, and we have a free-at-the-point-of-delivery National Health Service. It's not perfect - what is? But the concept is pretty nearly universally supported here.

Patty Inglish, MS profile image

Patty Inglish, MS 7 years ago from North America Author

Hi, Plants and Oils - Thanks for your experience! Seferal friends of mine in UK have told me they like NHS pretty well.

Plants and Oils profile image

Plants and Oils 7 years ago from England

We do. See the outrage generated by people criticising it in America. It's a bit like one's mother or sister. I can criticise them, but woebetide anyone else who tries to!

The Shark profile image

The Shark 7 years ago from Hampton, NH

One of the the many problems with this bill is the reason they are so quick to abandon the single apyer idea.

Because the single payer part is not the key to the bill. The key to this bill is insure the 35 million illegals and fund the plan with reductions in medicare by as much as 40%.

This would guarantee the dems not only 35 million new voters for being so kind to give them both amnsety and free insurance, but also the 15 family members each will be allowed to bring into the country afer becoming citizens. that number is staggering 35 mil times 15, talk about a drag on our system.

All this by selling ut our own citizens on medicare.

The Shark

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds 7 years ago

The issue of "end times counselling" has been mischaracterized by opponents of health care reform. The proposal is that counselling about health choices, durable powers of attorney, wills, and the like would be completely voluntary. There is no proposal that would encourage euthanasia.

The Shark profile image

The Shark 7 years ago from Hampton, NH

well from what I have read it appears that end of life counseling would be required every five years begining at age 65 on the Government option.

Patty Inglish, MS profile image

Patty Inglish, MS 7 years ago from North America Author

I think that a lot of people would be taught about power of attorney, living will, and related matters at age 65 and then take no action about them. Especially if they had no family and lived alone, no one might know their healthcare wishes if they were unconscious from illness or injury. That might be one reason for regular 5-year follow-up. I wonder how many would still not act on these matters and place anything in writing?

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds 7 years ago

That's true. It has nothing to do with "unplugging granny."

Will Apse profile image

Will Apse 7 years ago

The odd thing about the whole debate on health care is people think it will be too expensive.

All the stats show that the US spends by far the highest proportion of its GDP on healthcare for any nation in the world.

It would be hard to actually add to the costs even if the US government turned out to the least adept provider on the planet.

MagicStarER profile image

MagicStarER 7 years ago from Western Kentucky

This is to Shark:

Your statement:

"They even have a link on the web to turn people in that you hear, i.e. radio shows, or web sites, that question the plan.

Can you imagine, asking Americans to turn in Americans for speaking or having a differing opinion?"

Can you tell me where that web link is? I don't doubt that it exists - I would just like to know where you found it and see it for myself, and maybe use it as a reference in an article? Sounds outrageous, to me.

To Patty; this is a very well thought out hub.

I am going without health care and my medications now because I am too ill to work and can not afford to pay a doctor, nor for health insurance. I have applied for Disability now for the second time, and waiting for an appeal hearing which will probably be in 11-12 months. So far I have been trying to get Disability for 3 years. Too sick to work all this time, no income, lost my home, and forced to stay with a friend.

So if anyone wants health care, it is me. I also vote Democratic.

But! I do not like this HR 3200 because:

a) I don't like the fact that our private, financial, and medical records will be accessed by the Attorney General, by the government, and by every other Tom, Dick, & Harry involved in the health care delivery hierarchy.

b) I am vehemently against the Baucus bill, which calls for fining those who do not purchase health care insurance.

c) I am opposed to any bill which forces the states to assume exorbitant expenses for the implementation of new digital record-keeping systems, new regulatory offices, and over-burdening of State Medicaid offices without clearly providing for the costs and planning for expansion that would be necessary. (especially since the states are already in the red!)

d) I don't like the idea that the government will be deciding what health care people should receive, nor what the standards for "basic health care" should be. Are they medical authorities? (I don't believe insurance companies should be doing this, either, they are not qualified)

Yes, I have read the bill.

I am against it.

Read HR 676. THAT is the plan we need!

Great hub, Patty!

Patty Inglish, MS profile image

Patty Inglish, MS 7 years ago from North America Author

Check with the Catholic hospitals in your area - here, they have a dedicated fund to use for folks that have no income or health insurance.

Thanks for all the comments.

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