"Legitimate" Rape, Congressman Akins, a Woman's Bodily Reponse, Pro-Life, and Pro-Choice. [164*12]




CONGRESSMAN TODD AKIN (R-MO) TOLD THE WORLD he believed a woman's body has the capacity to reject pregnancy if she were "legitimately" raped. He later walked that back and said he meant "forcibly" raped; but everybody knew what he meant, so it didn't help. Akin is now definitely sticking his finger in everybody's eye, Conservatives and women alike, by staying in the Missouri Senate race, much to the delight of Democrats.

Before I go any further I need to make crystal clear my belief that rape is rape. Even though under the law there are "degrees" of rape, it is nevertheless an unwanted, forced, and often violent sexual assault on another person. Date rape is no different than "forcible" rape or any other kind of sexual activity which is against someone's will. I emphasize this because the next thing I going to write may seem like a contradiction, but it is not; it has to do with Akin's claim that doctors told him a woman's body knows how to prevent a pregnancy when "legitimately" raped.

When I talked with my wife about this, my knee-jerk reaction was bull-s... pucky, not in a thousand years is that true. Then she, being of more rational mind said no, not necessarily true, at least in all instances. She went on to offer the following logic which I buy until offered scientific evidence to the contrary; I buy it because it makes sense to me. When a woman is violently assaulted and then raped very much against her will, her body is going through an entirely different physical reaction than if she were into a pleasant heavy petting exercise on the backseat of a car but then decided it wasn't such a good idea to have sex after all. The problem, of course, her partner, who is all worked up and ready to go, doesn't see it this way and forced himself on her anyway, raping her.

In the former case, the woman's physiology was probably 100% oriented to fighting off her attacker from the outset, with huge roiling of emotions going on doing who knows what to the hormonal balances with her body in addition to the adrenaline coursing through her veins. Conceivably, there may be a point that where, in some cases at least, her body might protect itself from an unwanted pregnancy; heavy on the "some" and "might". I am betting that this is what Todd Akin might have heard say. Of course, Akin would have translated that into "most" and "probably" rather than "some" and "might".

In the latter case, the opposite is true, until the very end. Here, the woman is basically preparing for sex at some level before deciding that this was not the time and or place. She is emotionally engaged with her partner and until it becomes obvious that "no" isn't meaning "no" to him that her defenses finally go up and resistance starts. In this situation, it would seem plausible to me that her body's internal reactions would be way behind the power curve and if there is a protective mechanism going on, the chances of it stopping a pregnancy at this point in time are much smaller. Again, I am only musing about the mechanical operation of the body, not about this guy who should be going to jail for a very long time, regardless of which situation is being discussed. Even if the Akin hypothesis is true, and it is reasonable to assume it might be so long as you substitute the words "initially violent" for "legitimate", in some cases, it is just as reasonable to assume it is not true in many others.

Whether what my wife suggests is true or not remains to be seen, but to me anyway, it seems plausible and something Akin may be getting a bit of bum rap for, but only on these "very narrow grounds." Narrow grounds or not, this is only an academic exercise for me, a man, there is nothing academic about it for women, I am sure, and especially for those who have been raped; and I am heart-broken to know how many women have been, especially as children.

What Todd Akin cannot get a pass on, however, is the "legitimate" or later "forcible" characterization of rape. As soon as he says that, then he creates "illegitimate" and "non-forcible" rape, which, by definition cannot exist. What he might have been thinking of, and this is only a possibility, are those cases where the rape accusations are false. Those cases aren't "illegitimate" rapes because they weren't rapes at all, they were simply crimes of a different nature.

What is another possibility is that he believes an "illegitimate" rape is my second situation above, except his belief is the girl's "no" really means "yes, I am just being hard to get". There are plenty of men who take that view. There is no telling, however, what he meant, but, regardless, he was between a rock-and-a-hard-place because any interpretation would be wrong; it was just a matter of degree of "wrongness".


TO ME, THE UNDERLYING ISSUE is the age-old, male chauvinistic belief that women often asked to be raped is still alive and well in America. The more you believe there is a natural hierarchy in society, the more you believe this old adage (not so old really in some parts of the country). What do i mean by "hierarchy"? I mean the worldview that one gender is naturally superior to the other, that one race is naturally superior to another, that one income group is naturally superior to another, etc. Further, sociologists have shown that the more conservative you are, the more you believe this these things are true and simply can't understand other who believe otherwise (sometimes calling them socialists or communists); and Representative Todd Akin is very conservative. I suspect he would score very high on the Right-wing Authoritarian (RWA) and Social Dominator Orientation (SDO) surveys of Professor Altemeyer.

Am I surprised Akin made such a comment? No, not really, it is something I believe is a common belief among conservative males and to some degree, the conservative females as well, judging from a few of them I have run into. The Bible and Koran, of course, feed into this mindset with their insistence on a submissive role for women in society. Consequently, the more fundamentalist one is, the easier it is to blame the woman for her own victimization, just as they blame Eve for the downfall of mankind in the Garden of Eden. With this kind of background, I am not surprised at all.

Even though most conservative politicians are more circumspect in what they say publicly, it is hard for them not to feel and express the Akin view privately. Here in rural Florida, I am surrounded by conservatives and I hear these private thoughts constantly, it makes my stomach turn to know I am still living in the Dark Ages, regarding this issue.

Will society ever get to the point where the right for a woman to control what happens to her own body? I don't know. What I do know, it has taken mankind 6000 years to make what small improvements that have occurred and where it has taken the most hold is in this dastardly "socialist" hell-holes and only for the last, what 30 years out of 6000?

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Do you believe that Todd Akin thinks that "Date Rape" is very serious form of rape or even rape at all?

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Do you believe that conservatives, as opposed to other political orientations, in general thinks that "Date Rape" is very serious form of rape or even rape at all?

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Comments 17 comments

Lions Den Media profile image

Lions Den Media 4 years ago

To make rape and the comments of Akin (R) a democrat vs. republican issue is absurd. Perhaps anyone attempting to suggest that republicans support rape should look at the actions of democrats as opposed to ill conceived words uttered by an idiot. Think about this - Bill Clinton was accused of physically raping and beating women. Ted Kennedy killed a woman and has had a few brushes with illicit sex. John Edwards and Gary Hart, both democrats, were in illicit affairs. What would have happened if Monica Lewinsky or these other woman had charged any of these democrats with RAPE...would liberals defend them or denounce their actions immediately?

Perhaps Akin was attempting to illustrate the difference between a degrees of rape predicated on a case in which a consenting male of 18 and a consenting female of 17 engage in sex, but due to a pregnancy the parents bring forward charges of rape. This is a case when rape is not a rape as one cannot rape the willing - otherwise we would all be guilty of rape. But what about a 15 year old male and a 25 year old female teacher...can the female rape a male? I'm a guy and my first question is when I hear of these absurd cases - where were these teachers when I was in high school? My second thought is that there is no self-respecting male that can say he was raped by a woman, because a woman forcing a male to have sex is merely -- great sex!

As for a woman being able to block and prevent becoming pregnant after being raped, as Akin claimed, is perhaps one of the most absurd baffling comment uttered by a politician. And having been a former MP and first on the scene of rape victims - it is an extremely horrific crime that is indefensible and indescribable as to the physical and psychological impact on a woman.

So let us not trivialize Rape, because a forcible rape (as opposed to a drunken one night stand) is a revolting disgusting act which shall not be tolerated regardless of who commits the act - presidents, senators, governors or some vagrant off the street.

From past instances of high profile rape cases, when rape allegations are alleged by a black stripper and made against rich, white, assumed conservative males - the media, the government and all liberals immediately denounced the white guys. This was the case with the Duke lacrosse team. In fact, it was so hideously politicized that the DA excluded evidence exonerating the accused in an effort to obtain a conviction in order to be reelected.

Now I'm not defending Akin, because I cannot defend stupidity. Similarly I cannot defend Barry Obama because he is either a profoundly ignorant moron or treasonous scoundrel of scandalous proportion. So whether or not one is a democrat or a conservative makes no difference - STUPIDITY has NO political affiliation.

However, one problem with Akin is that he believes that under NO circumstances should there be a reason for an abortion because the baby is an innocent being. Hence, anyone attempting to logically defend abortion as legitimate, must also accept the death penalty of the "guilty" as legitimate as well. Because if society has the right to kill the innocent, then society therefore, has the obligation to kill the guilty.

That said, Akin's comments warrant his removal on the basis of being stupid in a no stupid zone. However, if one believes Akin should be removed due to stupid "comments" one can only reasonably and honestly assert that one who actually engages and implements stupid policies - should also stand down. Therefore, based on the parameters set by democrats - it is the obligation of not only Akin to withdraw, but also for Barry Barack Hussein Obama Soetoro to resign immediately and rescind all pensions and benefits. Because lets face it -- stupidity cannot continue being rewarded.

My Esoteric profile image

My Esoteric 4 years ago from Keystone Heights, FL Author

Thanks for the your thoughts, Lions Den. Why is the linkage absurd? Conservatives have one worldview, Republicans another, Moderates at third, and Liberals a fourth, etc.

Where did I suggest anybody supported rape? Please point out the passages.

"Ted Kennedy killed a woman" - this is news, are you writing an expose with your new found knowledge? As I remember it, he almost died with the woman.

The rest of the first paragraph has nothing to do with the act of rape, just rather poor moral conduct.

This statement illustrates my point exactly "My second thought is that there is no self-respecting male that can say he was raped by a woman, because a woman forcing a male to have sex is merely -- great sex!" I would rather not have sex with Tokeo Rose or Jane Fonda, personally, and would have to be forced to do so.

You say "But what about a 15 year old male and a 25 year old female teacher...can the female rape a male? I'm a guy and my first question is when I hear of these absurd cases - where were these teachers when I was in high school?" ... well, I have to admit, that is the first thing I think of as well, however, my ability to eomtionally handle that encounter may not translate to the next boy she wants to canoodle with; he may real emotional issues that she may stir up.

Again, you make my point, assuming the drunk woman said 'NO" somewhere along the line ... ''So let us not trivialize Rape, because a forcible rape (as opposed to a drunken one night stand) is a ..."

JayeWisdom profile image

JayeWisdom 4 years ago from Deep South, USA

Hi, MyEsoteric....This is an excellent hub (as usual), and I agree with everything you wrote. I, too, am surrounded by conservatives and way too many fundamentalists. It does indeed seem like the Dark Ages, but any attempt at reasoning with these people turns quickly into an argument, and I'm outnumbered. Unfortunately, I tend to get angry and that detracts from my ability to stick with facts. I wish I had your cool manner when responding to "attack mode" comments.

By the way, everyone in the U.S. seems to know about Akins' ignorant blunder, but almost no one seems to be aware that PAUL RYAN, #2 on the Republican presidential ticket, in an interview last week referred to rape as a "method of conception." RAPE? A method of conception?

Since the mainstream media has ignored Ryan's statement (which I think people would be at least as outraged about as Akins' if they only knew about it), the only reason it caught my eye was because Paul Slansky, writer and contributor to The New Yorker, posted about it online in The Huffington Post yesterday. His post doesn't just contain his outrage and despair that a potential VP thinks rape is a "method of conception", but he includes the video proof (on WJHL-TV). Anyone who is interested can find out what type of person Paul Ryan really is by checking out Slansky's post. When you do, I think you'll ask yourself (as I did), where the hell is the mainstream media when something this important needs reporting? The second question should be: Does a person who thinks like this really need to be a heart attack away from the presidency?

Sorry, M.E., for usurping your comments space to get up on my soapbox. Were you aware of Ryan's statement?

Voted Up, Useful and Interesting.


JayeWisdom profile image

JayeWisdom 4 years ago from Deep South, USA

This is a postscript to my comment above. I agree with ALMOST everything you wrote. As a woman, however, I have a difficult time believing in even the possibility that the body can rid itself of a pregnancy that occurs due to rape. Miscarriages often occur spontaneously because a fetus is severely malformed. A large percentage of miscarriages are due to chromosomal deficiencies, and I don't think rape has any effect on the chromosome development of a fetus.

I don't have statistics for the number of women who have given birth (rather than miscarrying) after being raped, but if those women were asked what they thought of that theory, I doubt you'd find a single one who would give it any credence whatsoever. Just my opinion....

My Esoteric profile image

My Esoteric 4 years ago from Keystone Heights, FL Author

Jaye, Thanks for your comments. No, I hadn't heard of the Ryan quip, I will go look it up. I don't know about the body "ridding" itself of a pregnancy that developed, that hadn't occurred to me; my wife and I were thinking more along the lines of not being able to conceive at all after such an awful incident; that whatever processes which are involved in fertilization and implantation are somehow interfered with because of a physical chemical imbalance brought on by the strong emotions caused by such an attack.

BTW, usurp all you want.

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Ginger Ruffles 4 years ago

Sorely disappointed to see you even entertain the logic that a woman's body can protect itself from unwanted pregnancy when raped if it's violent enough.

JayeWisdom profile image

JayeWisdom 4 years ago from Deep South, USA

Back again after reading numerous responses to Ryan's remark about rape being a "method of conception." While the mainstream press seems to be ignoring it, blogs are hitting hard at Ryan, including Rumble, in the NYTimes, with the headline: " The Akin-ization of Ryan."

There is a lot of anger out there about Ryan's clear misogyny. In that interview he couldn't even talk about women or the trauma they experience when raped. All he was concerned with emoting was his view that "rape is a method of conception." He is truly one of the fanatics in the pro-choice arena, as shown by his Congressional voting record and the bills he co-sponsored with Akins. Even though he says that he doesn't agree with Romney about abortion for rape and incest, he manages to say that Romney (if elected) will make the policy. However, we all have to remember that any VP is as close to the presidency as a heartbeat. That is a truly scary thought in the case of Ryan.

One blog written by a woman (I forget which one) described him as just considering women an "EasyBake oven" for making babies, with no thought whatsoever to the women themselves. If you Google the relevant phrases, you'll get lots to read. Since you're better at writing this type of hub than I am, perhaps you'll follow up with a hub about Ryan out-Akins-ing Akins!


My Esoteric profile image

My Esoteric 4 years ago from Keystone Heights, FL Author

I appreciate your comment Ginger and understand your point. As a man, it is much easier to separate the emotions from the mechanical aspects of how the body might respond. I suspect for many women it is a moot point; why even bother pondering the subject at all, it is insulting, and that is a valid perception as well.

However, if such a phenomenon were actually true, wouldn't it be useful to know and understand it?

abbykorinnelee profile image

abbykorinnelee 4 years ago from Ripon Wisconsin

He didn't say that Republican's promote rape...

Even us Obama supporter's know that would be an idiotic thing to believe....

But, at the same token, you are putting a lot of faith in what your side is saying and believeing that your side is telling you the truth and you are putting a lot of things into what someone says without knowing if that is what they really meant. Then if we say something like Romney disrespected women with the way he spoke about banning abortion, Republicans jump in we are buying into the War on Women and we are delusional. Yet again, we said he was acting like it not anything else...that is my example.

And FYI if a women is extremely intoxicated and the man is aware of the fact she is, than he can be charged with date rape because when you are intoxicated past a point you are unable to make responsible decesions, some won't even know what decesions are being made and don't have memories of the night so you can't sleep with her even if she says yes.

It's also the same if the guy is just not leaving the girl alone and takes the girl home he was on a date with and he keeps saying "oh please, you know you want to" and doing the begging pleading thing and "teasing" her by covering the door handle and saying just a quickie and you can go....stuff like that is making the girl feel trapped and she feels pressured and unsure of what to do because if she says no she doesn't know if he will react badly and she says yes out of desperation because they guy is now really making her feel bad so she does it. That is also rape.

Rape can occur in a marriage...married men don't have an automatic right to take it when he wants it she can still say no and charge her husband with rape.

There are many ways rape can occur, and there aren't this high percentage of our women population that are going to cry rape and its not rape. That doesn't even matter because your guy made an idiotic statement...you can get pregnant when you are raped. There is no forcable, there is no legitamate...its rape...its all rape. No word in front of it changes it in any way and really, only makes the term redundant.

Okay this black stripper against white male crap...you do know that rich white men are a percentage of the population that do hire prostiutes right? They have affairs? They get drunk, flash a little money, and play grabsies with the strippers...doesn't frickin matter if the girl is black!!! I have seen quite a lot of well off white men grab strippers and try to pull them on their lap and the stripper is trying to nicely free herself because you aren't supposed to touch...

Republican supporters I noticed throw around that rich white guy bit and victim and things of that nature a lot...they aren't victims so stop making them out to be victims. Money makes people feel more and more entitled and better than those below them...I know this from experience, I have seen the statistics, I have been college educated in sociology classes so don't use that comeback that I am an ignorant Obama supporter.

He didn't tirvalize rape, you are justifying your guys stupidity in his statement.

Like how you tried to end it too...Obama is different in one way...he isn't stupid or arrogant and throwing his personal beliefs about a women's body around like its for him to even think of sayaing what he thinks we should do because he isn't a women...he knows single mom's raising sons and he knows about women needing their rights and that he doesn't need to take a stance because that isn't his choice to make...and he does good things like get autism covered by insurance so their early intervention services aren't denied like they were being...and he takes a stand and when he realizes that he needs to support it instead because in hindsight he is an ass to think he has the right to tell them they can't do something he gets up and says american i changed my mind and i don't believe in gay marriage but its not for me to tell them they can't have that right and he gives them that...and he got them the right to serve in the armed forces openly...he is is certainly a scatterbrain at times...he's made mistakes and he hasn't thought about the words he is saying so they come out and he has just said a double negative or something...but that makes our guy human. He cares about us as people and the humanity as a whole. He cares about welfare because not to make adults lazy because he is trying to protect and give their children some decent environment and its not a lot...its still below poverty line and it is something that gets abused but when you think about it ..he doesn't want to cut food stamps and know that the kids that used to have food in their mouths every night might not know where its coming from tomorrow.

Yes, you will say you shouldn't have to pay for some addict mom with seven kids who lives off welfare because she is lazy and the government doesn't take care of us indefeinately and they are relying on them...yes...I know...but what happens to the kids?

So, and esoteric those paragraphs are fill ins to make his argument look more substantial when its just something of a smokescreen...republicans think us Obama supporters don't know how to read, comprehend, research or back up what we think and we are just wanting to live of the govt money...they don't think that maybe we just care about humanity and we don't care as much about the rich white guys he is trying to paint as victims.

Your rich white guys stated they are pissed the whites aren't the majority of the U.S. population anymore. They are now only 40%. You know why? You know what they said? Because they aren't the majority and are really worried its not going to be as easy to take back the president seat now where the black one should never have sat...yes it was said...and I also know that they aren't really seeming concerned and the supporters are tossing out that we need to get used to the fact that this country's majorithy is a christian faith and religion is going to always be their basis for views...and they never seem to mention or even hear me when I say that the country's citizens don't believe that religion is important in politics and what makes us a good human being. Only 40% of this country are now chritians versusx the previous 60%...and most of those are the older generations and the new voters and my generation don't care an iota about it and your party is prancing around like they still have all the majority and in fact they are only beginning to understand it...and those white men that I mentioned...you know they talked about how they use the "white advantage".....racist shit. But you cover them up as victims and you circumvent what they say and you justify and you point fingers...in reality that guys an idiot...rape is rape there is no other word for it and our bodies are ours and esoterics hub was right on and your comment was a fair attempt at stirring the pot.

YOu mention if they google the phrases....don't expect them to and don't expect if they do that changes anything because every retort will be directed at the ignorant Obama supporters that watch cartoon television and are poor so we can't possibly know what is good for the country...the economy probably would be better off with a different president but every other angle Romney is a man I wouldn't even sit next to on the bus....he belongs in some other career choice.

Don't you love how they can never admit though esoteric that anything any of their guys say is demoralizing or insulting...

I can't rant anymore because its getting old...its not like any of the romney supporters will even let their mind wrap around the fact that we might have something to talk about because we are smart people...it would ruin their campaign strategy to ignore Obama's voters because they can't drag us away from the govt aide...because that is all we supposedly care about....

I will toss my food stamps in the fire and never use them again if I knew if I did Romeny wouldn't be elected.

My Esoteric profile image

My Esoteric 4 years ago from Keystone Heights, FL Author

Are you pissed off or what, Abby? Thanks for sharing. BTW, I do draw a distinction between Republicans and conservatives. Republican is simply a Party label to which different philosophies attach themselves to over time, but conservative is a mindset which is made up of certain philosophical beliefs that don't vary much over time. Those who exhibit conservative characterics today, exhibited the same characteristics 200 years ago. On the other hand, people who belong to the Republican Party today, belonged to the Democratic Party in Andrew Jackson's time; go figure.

abbykorinnelee profile image

abbykorinnelee 4 years ago from Ripon Wisconsin

Sorry I think this is the only hub comment I truly was seeing red...I am a rape victim twice over....and I am a survivor not a victim. I think because I actually have been through it and I see things that are so obviously twisted around and some just ignorant I have to think where they got their information. I also got pregnant...and kept the baby. So, when this came up I am so sorry for spouting off but I just saw red...I kept thinking if only I had the statistics and terminology right in front of me...why didn't I keep those laws and definitions:) I do apologize for the rant...but I did mean what I said.

My Esoteric profile image

My Esoteric 4 years ago from Keystone Heights, FL Author

Rant away, you did it very well :-) I haven't been with very many women in my life, a few before I was 40, but was more successful after that after I built up more gumption and they invented the Internet; it is amazing how getting close to a female stranger shuts down ones ability to think or speak rationally or at all. Anyway, I digress. I was flabergasted by the percentage of those women I met after I was 40 who have had your experience, especially as teenagers from family members, generally not fathers or step-fathers, but brothers, cousins, and uncles. Only one, fortunately, had your terrible experience of being twice violated, and with her, it was longer term with the same uncle. I could only shake my head in bewilderment.

abbykorinnelee profile image

abbykorinnelee 4 years ago from Ripon Wisconsin

That was another thing you reminded me of...there was talk of if date rape was as big a deal as its made out to be and its actually one of the most common types of rape. You are more likely to be raped by someone you know that a stranger in a dark alley. And that is worse because you know them, and they abuse your trust. Also, no one takes seriously the issue of these one night stands because in all honesty, a lot of these girls are way beyond the ability to consent and a lot of the guys are very much aware they are that drunk. That is rape too.

I was with too many because I always felt pressured and I finally realized my power as a women and I think that being raped is what you make of it after. Its an awful experience you can let destroy you and eat you away or you can decide to be a survior. I didn't have the issues with mine that others do but I really made an effort to overcome a lot of those emotions you go through. I think rape by family is worse myself. My exs father is a convicted child molester...his two daughters. I can't imagine how that must feel now when your father is sitting there at Christmas and you are on the floor next to the chair as he holds your daughter on his lap.

Also, in response to the spontaneous abortion of the fetus if the body knows its raped, a lot of women that aren't raped have these spontaneous abortions before they miss their first period so they never even know they are pregnant and that is a high percentage. Now another thing to consider is they could have taken the morning after pill. This creates that bodily reaction. I am one to think that these are what the women who are raped should always take right away like when you get your rape kit at the hospital done.

I find it easier to be myself online with everyone but I think the thing here is you never know what person is really who they say they are. I want to meet someone eventually but I am really not sure about reinvesting myself in someone.

I think I am going to go ahead and find all this information about rape and write an entire hub on it. Not politically affiliated, but I think it would help a lot of people who may not know that there are many asp?ects to consider and maybe some women might actually find it helpful. What do you think

My Esoteric profile image

My Esoteric 4 years ago from Keystone Heights, FL Author

I think it you have a great idea there; you have covered a lot of ground in these and other comments. Another thing to consider is something I ended up doing, more or less by accident. I started writing a "progressive" (as in slot machines) hub on recessions and depressions in order to prove an economic point. It was progressive in the sense that I wrote about a couple recessions and then published it. Then, over the next year or so, I kept adding to it, building up my case of which economic theory, the one conservatives like or the one progressives like, worked better. It ended up getting so long, I found out I had a book on my hands and in July, I sent in for publishing.

My point here is you have such a broad perspective in this area that I can already see 10 or 12 chapters which you can develop as a series of hubs or sections in a single hub. When you have it the way you like it, publish it.

And yes, I think it would help a lot of women, but I would also take the time to orient to some of it to men who are on the cusp of understanding.

abbykorinnelee profile image

abbykorinnelee 4 years ago from Ripon Wisconsin

That's a good idea, so you start at some point designated and build on it. How can we be sure that if its on here thought that someone hasn't taken it from us and used it. Are the things we write protected?

My Esoteric profile image

My Esoteric 4 years ago from Keystone Heights, FL Author

I am pretty sure as soon as you publish it on hub pages, it is copyrighted, but you can ask a question about it, I am sure somebody knows. There is certainly know question about the time-stamp on it. You can also put your own copyright notice on the hub, I suppose.

You can get an idea of what I am talking about by looking up "A Short History of American Panics, Recessions, Depressions ...". I just Googled "panics, recessions, depressions" and it came up #6 on the list :-).

abbykorinnelee profile image

abbykorinnelee 4 years ago from Ripon Wisconsin

Thank you for the wonderful idea...I was having a creativity block

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