Love Saved Life, Love Took Life – Is Love Guilty?

(1) Love Saved Life

Munir Saved Life and was sent to Jail.

I am very happy for Munir Hussain (53) – Chairman of the Asian Business Council who was released from Bullingdon Prison, Oxfordshire UK, this week for attacking a man who burgled his house. Three masked men broke into his house. He and his family were threatened with a knife and tied up. He was able to break free with his brother. They ran after one of the men, attacked him and unforutunately the Burglar Salem was left “brain damaged”. Judge says: No one has the right to take the law into their own hands. Munir and his brother were jailed but his brother is yet to be released. Munir has spent 5 weeks in Prison, the rest of his sentence has now been suspended.

Munir Hussain (right) and Brother

Justice Served??

I read this statement in the papers and also heard it while listening to the news. “The burglar, Walid Salem, had his skull fractured in the attack. He was said to be unfit to plead at his trial because of brain damage, but has gone on to commit more offences”.

So while Mr Hussain and brother were in Jail, the Intruder was out on the streets again. Salem also has Previous 50 Convictions.

Was the Judge right to send Munir to Prison?

 

*                      *                      *                          *                              *

And on the same day……………………………..

 

Frances Inglis

Thomas Inglis

2) Love Took Life

Frances Inglis Took life and was sent to Jail. (same day Munir came out)

She killed her brain-damaged son by injecting him with Heroin because she couldn’t bear to see him suffer anymore. She said it was an act of mercy and she did it with love in her heart to end his suffering. But the judge told Jurors to forget emotion and said no one has the "unfettered right" to take the law into their own hands.

Her family and friends see it as a loving and Courageous act. They are totally behind her. She has been jailed for life.

Do you think she should have been sent to prison?

.

My thoughts

For Munir - I personally think he should have been given a verbal warning that he should have waited for the police after catching the Burglar (I understand though, he must have been upset at what they did to his wife and kids). He shouldn’t have been sent to prison and his brother should also be released.

For Frances – This is a tough one. No matter what, you should give a child a right to live. Maybe the Judge could have treated it as mental issue. (she wasn’t thinking right) and give her a Suspended sentence – whereby she doesn’t have to go to prison. Having said that, no one could ever know how much it hurt her, to see her son like that.

It would be nice to know your thoughts on these two people who saved life and took life.

 

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Comments 26 comments

DeBorrah K. Ogans profile image

DeBorrah K. Ogans 6 years ago

Lady E, Very thought provoking Hub! I do not believe that anyone has a right to take life. I believe that God is the giver and sustainer of life! I think that the whole idea of "justice" and how it is administered needs to be evaluated. How does one righteously do so treating each case objectively?

For John Munir, I think he was defending his family after being abused and this was an unfortunate accident... Not warranting incarceration which only further serves to hurt and penalizes his family after coming to their defense... There is no way of telling what the final outcome of all of their lives might have been...

I think it is warranted as you said in the case of Francis Inglis that her "mental" state of "stress" should factor in greatly to determine her plight.

Thank you for sharing; again this does provoke thought as always much love & Blessings!


Jai Warren profile image

Jai Warren 6 years ago from Dallas, Deep Ellum, Texas

In the Hussain instance, the judge sent the wrong men to prison. A person has the right to protect his life and property. Think about it, Salem was armed and about to rob and possibly harm this family. The brothers had every right to retaliate. My question is where were the police?

In the Inglis case, no one has the right to take a life whatever the circumstance. Miracles happen every day. I realize watching someone suffer, especially family, is painful but, mercy killing isn't an option. Her sentence was a little extreme. She's not a dangerous criminal in my mind. Psychotherapy with the the chance for parole would be more fitting.


Hello, hello, profile image

Hello, hello, 6 years ago from London, UK

The first case I agree with you. The second case, that lady must have gone through hell first seeing her son all the time like that and then having to have the courage to do what she did. You mustn't for get when she dies that boy will be put into an institution and we all know what that is all about. I am sorry but I have to agree with her decision and admire her being able to do it. Thank you for your interesting subject.


The Rope profile image

The Rope 6 years ago from SE US

Great look at a really difficult subject.

Enduring a loved one's suffering is the most painful of experiences. While we can rationally work out our own pain, I think seeing the pain of our loved ones is a completely different state of mind. Courts can only look at the written law, justice (or lack thereof) is a consortium of what the general public has passed into law. It is always horrible that "rational" thinking isn't a factor in "the system" and these are great examples.

Thanks Lady E for a terrific hub.


andromida profile image

andromida 6 years ago

I agree with your thoughts about both the cases.The Frances case is very tough even for judges to decide-judges only took the reference of laws to make the decision.Saving the life of people and helping someone to get rid of suffering is almost the same, yet in Frances case it looked like a murder.I think we need more developed laws by integrating more human values for euthanasia type of cases .


fits4life profile image

fits4life 6 years ago from Richmond

First of all, this is a good discussion hub. Thank you for it. Both cases are very disturbing. When it comes to the hearts and minds of men you never know whats going on in them. As a christian I can not be controlled by my feelings. Following our feelings will cause us to do all kinds of things that we shouldn't do. You see, God is still a healer, whether we feel good or not. Before we make any decisions, we should seek his words on the matter, do it his way, have faith, and every thing will work out for the good.

This is the hardest thing for man to do. We are always trying to be in control of ourselves. We should be led by God.

Thanks again for this controversial hub. Good Job!


Philipo profile image

Philipo 6 years ago from Nigeria

Lady_E, this is a very touchy hub. The law is blind and impartial. No one is above the law.

For Munir - He acted out of annoyance. Ok. But he could have also committed murder at the same time. He should be allowed to face the wrath of the law.

For Frances – She committed the act with her full senses. This is pure murder. She doesn't know God's purpose in the life of that child. She should have allowed him to life. She should also be allowed to face the wrath of the law.

Nice hub. Thanks for sharing.


hypnodude profile image

hypnodude 6 years ago from Italy

In Italy these kind of things happen everyday, I thought UK was better as regards the first case. Well, at least Scotland Yard catches criminals most of the times. As regards your question the only way in these particular cases to have a fair judgment is that both the judge and the jury have undergone the same thing. It's easy to say things when you have never been in the same situation. How would the judge have behaved during a robbery? Screaming and crying or would have defended his family?

For me I agree with the State of Texas, there is simply nothing that can be excessive self defense.

As for the second case, well, That woman should have been judged by a mother, which I guess the judge was not. Only a mother could judge that behavior fairly.

Very good hub Lady_E, controversial and thought provoking; obviously rated up. :)


Mike Lickteig profile image

Mike Lickteig 6 years ago from Lawrence KS USA

Lady_E, this was a terrific hub. I will add my thoughts to the others posted here. I'm no judge or lawyer, but in my opinion Munir Hussain has the legal right to defend his home and his property. If he intended to restrain Walid Salem until authorities could arrive, he should not serve time. If he accidentally injured Salem, I also believe he should not be charged with a crime. If he INTENDED to injure Salem in retaliation, that might constitute a crime, but I think circumstances might still weigh heavily in his favor toward a lesser penalty. I also wonder how Salem could possibly be on the streets at all if his record shows 50 prior convictions. Not even just arrests, but convictions? That man should have been in prison a long time ago.

In Frances' case, I would agree that it is morally and legally wrong for the mother to decide it is best for her son to die, and she should undergo psychological evaluation and treatment for what she did, at the least.

This was a tremendous post and certain to generate some lively discussion, thanks for sharing this.


Cari Jean profile image

Cari Jean 6 years ago from Bismarck, ND

I would like to comment on the case involving the mother and the child. I have a child with a disability and know many parents with special needs children. One particular child cannot talk or even move on her own. She has constant seizures and is fed through a tube. Her parents care for her on a day to day basis because they love her.

My daughter's disability (caused by brain damage when she was born 2 1/2 months early) isn't as severe but she does suffer with constant pain in her legs. It would never cross my mind to end her suffering because I love her. I don't see how a stable-minded parent could even think of killing their child. This mother needed help. I do believe there has to be consequences to her actions or there might be other parents tempted to do the same thing.


BeccaHubbardWoods profile image

BeccaHubbardWoods 6 years ago from Outside your window...

What a wonderfully thought provoking hub! I think Munir shouldn't have gotten anything more than a slap on the wrist. They let the wrong man go, seems like. Sometimes I wish I were a judge...

With Inglis, I think it's justified that she was sent to prison. This is based on my own heart, though, as I can not for the life of me think of any reason why I would want to take the life of my own child. Even if he was suffering, I would want to ease the pain, but never, ever take his life. I don't know what was going on in her head, though.


Lady_E profile image

Lady_E 6 years ago from London, UK Author

Hello all,

I’m so sorry it’s taken me hours to make a response here. I published the Hub, nipped out and didn’t get back until hours later.

Thank you all for taking the time to respond. I am so touched by your comments. They strike a chord in one’s heart.

Hello, hello – there’s no need to be sorry. Hypnodude wrote “As regards your question the only way in these particular cases to have a fair judgment is that both the judge and the jury have undergone the same thing.”

I know a lot of times, even all the Jury don’t agree together on whether a person is guilty or not. People see things from different angles.

Cari Jean – I pray for a special Angel to always be round your daughter.

It’s nice to read these responses and I hope if ever a Judge/Legal person gets to read this, they think of reviewing the law regarding both cases as Jai Warren stated, Frances isn’t a dangerous Criminal.

Thanks so much again – everyone. I appreciate your comments.


dragonbear profile image

dragonbear 6 years ago from Essex UK

Two very emotive and emotional cases. I think the judge had it about right for Munir and I do feel that the offenders have become far too bold because they know that the justice system isn't really effective.

As for Francis, as a catholic I find the taking of life in this way a very difficult subject. I cannot condone what she did, but I cannot condemn her either. Her pain may well have been unbearable seeing her son as he was. I'm not going to go into the whole good from suffering thing here, it's not the place; I think murder was a harsh sentence though and prison not appropriate.

I think you've pitched the hub about right, great stuff Lady_E


shazwellyn profile image

shazwellyn 6 years ago from Great Britain

Now, you see, I am always in the view of how can I judge and condemn anyone? I dont know their truth, just as they dont know mine... as a mother, there are times that we have to take the tough love approach - we are always guilty, no matter what our actions are (rather.. the feeling). It must have crucified her to see her son suffer - it must have crucified her to terminate his suffering! Whichever way, it is easy to look on and condemn her.

Again, as a mother, we want to protect... so using 'reasonable force' to protect our home and our family at a moment where your home is violated is not an academic decision... it is a matter of life and death - well that is the feeling, anyway. So reasonable force, may not be as reasonable after the event ... life is unfair, no doubt!

The judge, though, couldnt predict that the burglar would continue with his behaviour - there was no crystal ball involved here! He has to go by the book of the law and if the book of the law states the punishment, it is his remit to follow that - unfortunately the law is standardised and doesnt allow much in the way of individual assessment... life is unfair, no doubt!

So, what I have come up with is that life is a lottery. These situations can happen to any of us at any time. We have no control of external factors, only control of our own selves... Life is unfair, no doubt!


Lady_E profile image

Lady_E 6 years ago from London, UK Author

** Thanks Dragonbear - I agree, Frances received a Harsh sentence. Who knows, they might review it later as they did to Munir and change it to a Suspended sentence. Thanks for stopping.

** Hi Shazwellyn, very interesting points you have raised and also looking at it from a mums point of view. What you wrote is quite touching - Life, unfair! If they weren't put in those positions, they wouldn't carry out those actions.

Nice to read from you again.


fishtiger58 profile image

fishtiger58 6 years ago from Momence, Illinois

A great hub. The situation with Munir was wrong from the start. He does have a right to defend himself and those he loves. So I don't agree with what happened to him and his brother. Years ago in a train yard by my house two young men tried to rob a train carrying tennis shoes. One of the young men fell and a train ran over his leg cutting it off. Him and his accomplice were sent to jail. The one who lost his leg sued the train company and won a 1 million dollar settlement for his loss of leg. That mess just steams me. No wonder our country is in such a mess when stuff like this occurs. As for the mother and her son, killing is not right in any situation but it's obvious that she did it with much love for her son. I know it was killing her to see him this way. A bad situation all the way around. But yes I believe she should get a suspended sentence.


Lady_E profile image

Lady_E 6 years ago from London, UK Author

Hi Fishtiger, Interesting comments you made. I'm begninning to wonder if it's a case of having a very good lawyer? Thanks for stopping. :)


dohn121 profile image

dohn121 6 years ago from Hudson Valley, New York

I'm not sure how I missed reading this hub? Munir Hussain's case was a riveting one and I commend him and his brother for what they did. No one has the right to break into another person's home, so when someone does so, they relinquish their rights as citizens (in my opinion). I really do hope his brother is released soon.

The case of Frances Inglis was very unfortunate and tragic all the same. I'm not sure what I would've done in the very same instance. Euthanasia is a controversial subject and has been for several decades now. I hope I don't ever have to make such a decision :(

Thank you so much for sharing this, Elena.

P.S. Thanks for making mention of me in your previous hub ;)


Lady_E profile image

Lady_E 6 years ago from London, UK Author

Hi Dohn, I like the way you put it - a theif relinquishes their rights as citizens when they break in. I wish the legal system would see it that way. I agree Frances' case was unfortunate.

Ref. mention in Hub, it was very useful info you gave. Thank you too. :)


Gypsy Willow profile image

Gypsy Willow 6 years ago from Lake Tahoe Nevada USA , Wales UK and Taupo New Zealand

Excellent hub. In my humble opinion the brothers should have been praised for defending their family and property and the burglar jailed. The second case is a tricky one as we did not walk in her shoes. I hope she is getting counseling and that her case will be reviewed.


Lady_E profile image

Lady_E 6 years ago from London, UK Author

Thanks Gypsy Willow, I like your opinion but sadly the law doesn't view it that way. I also hope that ladies case is reviewed later. Thanks so much for stopping.


dreamreachout 6 years ago

That is why it is said that "Law is Blind"!! Even otherwise justice is best delivered when circumstances are best taken care of instead of simple following of the law manual!! Being a judge is a job of the highest order where the person must have intelligence and dilligence but unfortunately most judges lack the qualities as they pass the required exam and sit on that high alter with that big headgear!!

In both cases, these persons should be let free and laxity of both the law and the administrative system taken care of!!

Wonderful hub Elena!! :)


Lady_E profile image

Lady_E 6 years ago from London, UK Author

Lol Dreamreachout - "big headgear". On a serious note, I agree with you. Neither of them deserved to be put away.

Thanks for visiting. :)


Royalmark profile image

Royalmark 6 years ago from Lagos, Nigeria

Mr. Hussain wasn't supposed to be sent to jail because from my self-opinion, he acted in self-defence for the bad act the burglar committed...

As for Mrs. Frances, she's wrong as the bible and the law adjoined us that "Thou shall not kill" and "Everyone has a right to life" respectively but I won't judge her on that basis because she acted on the basis of her understanding (I mean, maybe it was so disheartening to see her boy groaning in pains as each day passed by while other children played and rallied around amongst themselves)...

An emotional hub...

Ciao!


Lady_E profile image

Lady_E 6 years ago from London, UK Author

Your Royal Highness, Royal Mark

You would make an excellent Judge. Where you dey? why you no study law. wetin happen? lol

On a serious note, they are both sad stories and I hope sometime soon they reverse their sentences - it happens.


Royalmark profile image

Royalmark 6 years ago from Lagos, Nigeria

Your Majestic Queen, Lady_E

You just spoke pidgin English? Alright! I have to reply you a bit in pidgin English

I no wan study law. Na Economics I dey...

Pray that on a day when a celebration is going, the president should pardon them....

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