Negatives on California Minimum Wage increase to $15 per hour.

Minimum Wage

California Minimum Wage Increase

Governor Brown signed into law a bill that will increase the State minimum wage from $10 to $15 per hour by Jan. 1, 2022.

This law applies to employers with 26 or more employees.

The law will be applied to employers with less than 26 employees in 2023.

At first glance this new law would appear to be a very good thing for minimum wage earners, but is it really a good thing?



Money in and money out.

Laws of Physics apply.

Physics class taught us that "every action has an opposite and equal reaction". Here are a few bits of information that may not have been covered when announcing this wage increase.

The tax implications are not a minor issue.

A family of four where both spouses are minimum age earners will see the following tax increases.

Federal tax will increase from $4,106 to $7,219.

Payroll tax will increase from $2,579 to $3,869.

Their earned income credits (EITC) will be cut from $596 to zero.

California State Tax will increase from zero to $379.

Their $2,400 food-stamps allotment will be totally lost.

The total wage increase from $10 to $15 per hour will divert $7,778 of their income to the government.

They will also face the possible loss of other income-dependent government welfare programs and loss due to inflation caused by the higher wages employers are required to pay employees. That $6 burger and fries will now cost $10 for everyone including the minimum wage employees.

Now, if you really read this, you will see that the major benefactor of this wage increase is not the employees, but is the Federal and State governments. Over 1/3 of the wage increase money will now go to governments. Governments will receive increased tax revenue and they will save money on entitlements they no longer have to pay.

Is there a better way?

It appears to me that our current system is designed to keep people dependent on government for their very survival.

I can think of several ways to make it better.

Many who have been depending on "entitlements" for a long time are discouraged from seeking even a minimum wage employment because they would lose some or all of their government assistance. The added costs of commuting to work, day care for the children, clothing, and miscellaneous job related expenses makes working impossible for them.

A system whereby they could phase out of the "entitlements" system rather than losing them all at once would not be that difficult to devise. They should be rewarded for going to work rather than punished by total loss of their assistance programs.

Minimum wage jobs were at one time mostly for entry level jobs for recent high school graduates. They were never meant to be career positions. Yet today, huge numbers of people are forced to work these jobs because that is all that is available.

Learn some skills.

Skills Training

Most of our high schools have long ago discontinued "shop classes" where students could be exposed to various different job skills. These included wood shop, welding, auto mechanics, machine shop, and several others.

I have never heard a real reason for these classes to disappear, but have heard a few excuses such as lack of student interest, liability issues, lack of funding, and others. These classes were designed to let students try out different skilled labor jobs and perhaps decide on one of these as a career. Not every student was born to go to college.

Now what if our Federal and State governments teamed up with Industry to supplement pay instead of giving out food-stamps. Using this method the employee would hire on at minimum wage which would be supplemented by the government for skills training. As the employee gained skills they would get regular pay increases but not suffer the loss of entitlements by going to work. When they successfully mastered the skill they were learning they would be at top pay for that trade and the governments obligation would end.

By using this method the employees dependence on government assistance would be over and the employee would "own" the skills he or she had been taught. The employee would become a self sufficient member of society with skills that would serve them well for the rest of their lives.

Is this what we want?

Action is needed now.

If you look at the chart in the photo above, it is clear we are on the wrong path in this country.

Many will disagree, but it seems we have worked hard at creating dependency on government in this country rather than trying to solve the problem.

I'm not sure if this was intentional, or just a lack of foresight and action by those we have elected to lead this country.

It is obvious to me that this problem could be easily resolved, with little or no additional cost to we taxpayers. Job skills training in lieu of welfare programs makes perfect sense to me. I do realize there are some who are not able to work and will always need assistance and I have no problem with that.

But for the good of our people, and the good of our country, changes need to be made to reduce the dependence on government we see today.

Your preference

Would you rather see skills training or more entitlements

  • Don't care.
  • More entitlements.
  • Skills training.
See results without voting

Comments welcome

Your comments are both welcome and appreciated as long as you stay on topic. Comments that include personal attacks will be deleted.

Comments 62 comments

Alternative Prime profile image

Alternative Prime 7 months ago from > California

In REALITY, there are NO "Negatives" ONLY Positives when we RAISE the Minimum Wage for ALL Hard Working AMERICANs and it's a very STRANGE Position and or POSTURE to Attack the Process of attempting to prevent as many Individuals & Families from Plummeting into POVERTY ~ Conservative Republicans who constantly OBSTRUCT Minimum Wage Increases should "SHIFT" their FOCUS in the Direction of Corporate CEO's who Rake in MILLION's of Un-Earned Salary ~


Old Poolman profile image

Old Poolman 7 months ago from Rural Arizona Author

AP - I don't believe you even read the hub based on your comment.


tsadjatko profile image

tsadjatko 7 months ago from maybe (the guy or girl) next door

Mike, that's because you don't understand economics on Planet Nebadon.

According to your numbers Mike for a family of 4 there is a net loss in the end to the family's income. Basically they get zero benefit at best.

That doesn't count the fact there will be jobs lost due to companies not affording the pay increase, automation now becomes affordable so more jobs lost, prices on goods go up for everybody to cover the pay increase and more people are even less encouraged to get skilled jobs because (they think) they are making as much on minimum wage


billybuc profile image

billybuc 7 months ago from Olympia, WA

I rarely weigh in on political topics, but you're a friend so I'll make an exception. Interestingly, we are on opposite ends of the political spectrum but I'm with you on this. Simply raising minimum wage does not solve the problem. Our system needs to be scrubbed clean of conventional thinking and we need to start looking at alternative ideas like the one you suggested....government teaming up with business to have training...I'm all for it. I have always been leery of the idea that college betters everyone. We need more craftsman in this country....more plumbers, electricians, etc.....what we are doing is not working, and that points to a flawed system. Simply changing the wage level does not change the system. I'm with you on this one, Mike.


CHRIS57 profile image

CHRIS57 7 months ago from Northern Germany

That´s a really good one. If your example family of 2 min. wage earners each work 1800 hours per year, the 5 bucks wage increase amounts to 18 Thousand more annual income. You are saying that the tax impact is almost 8 Thousand per year. That is a tax hike of 44%. Wow.

Not to mention the inflation problem of wage increases not meeting productivity increases. I wonder if any economist ever had a look at this.


Old Poolman profile image

Old Poolman 7 months ago from Rural Arizona Author

TSAD - You are correct, there are many more negatives I didn't even touch on. As you point out automation that was previously not affordable becomes a necessity. And with automation comes more job losses. Except of course for those who are smart enough to learn how to install, repair, and maintain the new equipment.

Those who refuse to believe that prices will go up when labor gets more expensive just blame it on greed. I doubt they know what a small profit margin many small business owners really make. When a fast food workers sells a burger and fries for $6 they think the owner get to put that entire amount in his or her pocket. Some small business's will just fold their tent and walk away any everyone loses their job.

I know liberals find it offensive when I say there is efforts to keep as many of our citizens as possible dependent on the government. But in reality how else can you see it when they are doing nothing to help them get off welfare? There has even been TV advertising encouraging people to sign up for food-stamps.

Thanks for your comment, always appreciated.


Old Poolman profile image

Old Poolman 7 months ago from Rural Arizona Author

Bill my friend, your agreeing with me says I must have done something right. I take that as a compliment. I'm not sure how Bobby-Fix-It would address this problem, but anything would be better than what we are doing now. Our current system traps people into a bare bones survival existence.

Thanks for the great comment Bill.


Old Poolman profile image

Old Poolman 7 months ago from Rural Arizona Author

CHRIS57 - Thanks for stopping by. I took these numbers from and article in the Wall Street Journal and did not do the math myself. I find them to be a reasonably reliable source of factual information.

It is possible that the main attraction to pushing the minimum wage increase is the 1/3 that will end up in the hands of the government. Unfortunately those workers who get this increase will end up with very little more money in their pockets unless the tax laws are revised.


RJ Schwartz profile image

RJ Schwartz 7 months ago from Idaho Falls, Idaho

Mike, I am glad to see you back in the writing game. I've always felt that you were one of the most level headed people on Hubpages and this piece of work solidifies that belief. I would love to see the analysis shared with those in CA who demanded the increase (provided they could understand it.) SJW like AP think that raising the minimum wage means that people will rise from poverty by working at a fast food place, when in fact all it does it drive up prices. Owners are NOT going to give up profit margin to increase wages. My last point is one I planned on writing a hub about next week - with technology and robotics making such rapid increases, the demand for more money by people (who in this case are low-skilled workers) will simply drive companies to shift to solutions that are technology based instead of human based.

The SJW class will have a tough time explaining how their demands helped ADD to the unemployment rates of low skilled workers. As a real example, take a look at the Steel industry around Pittsburgh in the 1970's. The steelworkers union made demand after demand on J&L Steel, US Steel and other companies in the form of wages and benefits. The company had to pass these prices along until they became uncompetitive in the market - guess what? They disappeared totally and everyone lost their jobs. It's a case study in trying to implement a wage level that doesn't coincide with the value proposition of the service or goods being produced. Wages are controlled by market forces of supply and demand for skill/talent/etc. - low skilled employees stay at those jobs because they do have any personal capital to help propel them to the next level. Paying them more won't result in any improvement of the business (cost savings, etc.), so the net effect is a shift upward in prices. Robotics on the other hand are a high initial fixed cost, but have a lower average operating cost over time and they don't call in sick or make mistakes. This is a losing proposition for CA and the citizens.


RJ Schwartz profile image

RJ Schwartz 7 months ago from Idaho Falls, Idaho

This comment is for AP, so its in capitals as he enjoys them so much

OWNERS ARE NOT GOING TO GIVE UP PROFITS FOR THE SAKE OF PAYING UNSKILLED WORKERS MORE - THEY WILL LOOK FOR REPLACEMENTS OR CLOSE THE BUSINESS FIRST - DO SOME HOMEWORK AND TRY TO UNDERSTAND THE CONCEPTS OF ROI, CAPITAL MANAGEMENT, AND HOW FIXED AND VARIABLE COSTS AFFECT OPERATIONS. STOP BLAMING REPUBLICANS - PLENTY OF HARD CORE SUPER RICH CAPITALISTS ARE DEMOCRATS - BEZOS, GATES, ETC.


Old Poolman profile image

Old Poolman 7 months ago from Rural Arizona Author

Ralph - A genuine pleasure to see you commenting on one of my hubs.

As a retired business owner I completely understood that higher wages would result in higher prices. Until I read an article in the Wall Street Journal I had never given much thought to the tax implications for the employees.

When one does the math, it seems the Federal and State governments profit the most from any hike in minimum wages.

I worked in the Telephone industry for 25 years before I retired to start my own business. The company I worked for spent millions to convert all of their switching centers to fully automated computerized systems. These systems were all monitored and could be remotely controlled and often repaired by an office in Washington state.

The old mechanical systems required full time employees to run jumpers, clean switches, and keep them running. The new systems are basically computers that do it all.

The switching center employees were warned this change was coming and offered retraining for other jobs in the company. Some took advantage of this offer and others just would not believe their jobs were going to be eliminated. I'm sure that the same thing happened when electricity was coming to town and there would no longer be a need for lamp lighters.

I take heat every time I say it, but it really looks to me like the goal is to have at least half this country dependent on government assistance. Even an idiot could see that if all we do is hand out food-stamps the problem will continue to worsen. But then my brain tells me that perhaps that is the true goal. I remember an old quote but forget who said it, "If I feed you I own you". Our current system is not designed to be a leg up for those in need. It is designed to hold people back and keep them dependent.

We have high paid skilled jobs going begging in this country and some companies want to import skilled labor from other countries. Does nobody in government see that finding a way to train our own citizens for these jobs would be preferable to importing skilled labor?

I truly believe our government has failed this country and put us in a very bad position. This country I love so much may not be here much longer unless we wake up and start making changes.

Anyhow, thanks for taking the time to comment Ralph.


Alternative Prime profile image

Alternative Prime 7 months ago from > California

This Comment is for RJ Schwartz ~ What CONservative Republicans ridiculously espouse in reference to Constantly OBSTRUCTING Minimum Wage Increases for Hard Working AMERICANs is now Irrelevant considering the "Debate", or shall I say "Pseudo-Debate" ENDED Long ago ~ It's OVER ~ NOW, moving forward, a direction which Republicans know very little about, it's time for ACTION ~ So, if you live in a Progressive State such as California, New YORK, Washington, Oregon etc. you can EXPECT Wages to INCREASE to at least $15.00 per hr to start within a reasonable period of time ~ LIVE in a Republican CONservative State? Unless Drastic CHANGES take place, you will CONTINUE to realize the "Supression of WAGES", Healthcare etc by your Politicians while Massive Tax Cuts for Wall Street Swindlers are Rabidly Supported ~ Just the FACTs ~

I've been around here an elswhere for a pretty long while and I always find it very STRANGE to the POINT of Suspicious when an individual, usually a Right Winger, takes a blatant "Un-American & Un-Patriotic" position such as the Opposition of PAYING Hard Working AMERICANs what they are WORTH & Deserve via a Wage Increase ~

So don't worry about paying OUR Brothers & Sisters a little MORE because Un-American & Un-Patriotic Greed Driven Companies have been going Bankrupt and or Ex-Patriating Assets & Jobs to Foreign SHORES for Decades, all in the name of MAXIMIZING Profits for Wall Street, and they will always "Conjure Up" a new EXCUSE to do so going forward ~ In the Mean Time, Pay AMERICANs what they Deserve ~


Old Poolman profile image

Old Poolman 7 months ago from Rural Arizona Author

AP - You are still completely ignoring the side affects these wage increases will cause. Unemployment will go up, prices will increase, and automation will escalate beyond what we can even imagine now.

We are mostly talking about unskilled labor when we talk minimum wages. Get some skills and the wages go up accordingly without government mandates. Due to our high unemployment levels unskilled labor is very plentiful right now.


RJ Schwartz profile image

RJ Schwartz 7 months ago from Idaho Falls, Idaho

Hard Working Americans do get paid well AP - people in entry level jobs get paid an entry level wage. The difference between you and I is that I can show a logical argument using facts, economic theory, and business acumen when discussing things. You on the other hand use emotionally driven propaganda talking points. I can hardly understand half of the things you post, since I'm not a Liberal and don't understand your language. You'll never be able to convince anyone of anything unless you bring facts - real ones, not the talking points you work with now. I demonstrated a real situation, proving I was capable of having a real intelligent debate - you countered as usual with political rhetoric. I guess it proves that I'm much smarter than you and you fear entering a real debate with me because you know that my work is always fact based and I'd tear you to shreds. Now, make your speech and be sure to use lots of capital letters, we like it when you do that.


breakfastpop profile image

breakfastpop 7 months ago

Your perfect mix of intelligence and common sense make it very clear to anyone who actually reads your words and understands them that raising the minimum wage creates more problems. The only winner in the scenario is the government, which is just the way they want it. Your ideas for training are brilliant and completely doable. Now all we need is the will to get the job done. I love the way you write, Mike.


Old Poolman profile image

Old Poolman 7 months ago from Rural Arizona Author

Patti - always a genuine pleasure to hear from you.

Your correct that one really needs to read this to see what will happen when they get the raise they are demanding.

But we know they won't so I guess it doesn't even matter.

In my opinion it is shameful we have a shortage of skilled workers in this country but do nothing about it.

But that could be part of a plan we don't know about.


Alternative Prime profile image

Alternative Prime 7 months ago from > California

Just like "Drumpf" Trump Digging Up 1940's Generals to Fight a 21st Century Battle, these "False NEGATIVEs" I'm reading are actually Amusing ~ Paying OUR AMERICAN Workers what they DESERVE & What they are WORTH which is $15.00 to start, is nothing but a GOOD thing, and if you LIVE in a Progressive State like New YORK, California, Washington etc., soon within a reasonable time frame, your wages will increase to ENHANCE your "Quality of LIFE" ~ Live in a CONservative State controlled by republicans? Unfortunately, your Wages & Health-Care etc will continue to be Suppressed until there is a change in Politics ~

Does anyone Honestly Believe Increasing the Minimum Wage for HARD Working Americans might cause "Un-Employment" and or "Price Increases"? Well, don't "Blame or Penalize" the EMPLOYEE when the Responsibility to ABSORB Cost is with the Company who now pays the CEO & Officers GROTESQUE Multi-Million Dollar Salaries and Bonuses ~

Time to Re-Adjust the Business Model to Accomodate Progressive TIMEs ~ Un-American Companies have been Ex-Patriating & Shipping Assets / JOBs to Foreign Lands for Decades under ALL Administrations and they will ALWAYs continue to find any little EXCUSE to do so, all in the name of APPEASING Wall Street GREED ~ Let em' go, there's always another PATRIOTIC Company waiting in the Wings to take its place ~


breakfastpop profile image

breakfastpop 7 months ago

Dear Mike,

When I went to High School everyone was not headed to college. The school graduated office workers with excellent skills as well as carpenters, gardeners, electricians, plumbers and everything under the sun. The dumbing down of America has been underway for a long time, and we are now really paying for our stupidity.


Old Poolman profile image

Old Poolman 7 months ago from Rural Arizona Author

AP - You still don't get it do you. Nothing I said is against raising the minimum wage and I agree it should be done. The subject of this hub is in regards to the added costs to the employees they are not aware of.

To put it simply, even with a $5 per hour raise they will not see much added to their paychecks.

If you would get off your Party Loyalty horse and read the darn hub you would see what I am talking about.

Nothing in this hub is pointing at either party, but the system in general. It could be so much better than it is now.

Please come back and comment again after you have read and understand this hub. If there is any part you don't get let me know and I will try to explain it to you.


RJ Schwartz profile image

RJ Schwartz 7 months ago from Idaho Falls, Idaho

AP - America is a Capitalist country, like it or not, and in a Capitalist world, everything is done for profit, not for the good will of the workers. So, if indeed you would like to see a serious Re-adjustment of the business model, what do you propose can be offered to incentivize the owners to make the change? Right now, when an owner hires high-skilled workers, they add productivity to the business model, driving up sales and profits, which in turn provides the company with more working capital and the ability to pay higher wages. The companies also have stockholders to appease, you remember the people that also hold ownership stakes in the company. Even the Greenest of Green companies that are Liberal owned still have ownership and profits, unless they are co-ops or non-profits. So, I ask you - do you want to see America shift to a true socialist or communist economy? Because as long as we have the freedom to operate as Capitalists, your vision is never going to be realized, no matter how much you preach about it.

If you want to really see real change then I suggest you and everyone you know boycotts all of the products made by the companies you feel are overpaying their CEO's - I'll help you with a list od those companies - Discovery Communications, Liberty Global, Microsoft, GAMCO, GoPro, Oracle, Qualcomm, viacomm, Walt Disney, Yahoo, Time Warner, Chipolte, Exxon, Starbucks, DOW, Wal-MArt, Pfizer, Abbot labs, Walgreens, etc.

These people who make an Obscene amount of money are your targets - regardless that they employee tons of people or provide the basic necessities of life, you should stop immediately - once they lose enough business from your protests, they might reduce CEO paychecks....or not


Old Poolman profile image

Old Poolman 7 months ago from Rural Arizona Author

Patti - I was stationed in Germany over 50 years ago. Even then they had a system where at a certain grade levels students could either choose a trade school or college prep path. The college prep path was restricted to those whom had the grades that would indicate that college was right for them

Germany had, and probably still does, some of the finest craftsmen in the world.

Our worlds educational ranking continues to decline. At one time we were number one. There should be some people getting fired for letting this happen.


Mel Carriere profile image

Mel Carriere 7 months ago from San Diego California

I belive the wage increase is going to be eased in over a series of 6 years, Mike. It's not going to jump overnight to $15, is my understanding.

You make some valid points about entitlements. As far as skills training is concerned I think it is a wonderful idea, but NAFTA and other free trade swindles have taken most blue collar jobs that require these skills out of the country. Even truck driving has gone to Mexico now. Great hub, my friend.


Alternative Prime profile image

Alternative Prime 7 months ago from > California

All I can say is keep having your little DEBATE in Wyoming or North Dakota or wherever else "Tiny RURAL Communities" with very Sparse Citizenry are Common-Place ~ Keep your CONservative Politicians, Stay Stuck in REVERSE, & CONTINUE to Suppress the Minimum Wage for your Workers / SLAVEs ~ The BIG POPULATION Centers within the United States of America such as New YORK and others have already Discarded the "Pseudo PHONEY DEBATE" and have MOVED on to tackle other Important Issues, Realizing the ONLY way to Defeat Poverty & "ENHANCE the Quality of LIFE" of the Majority of AMERICANs who actually EARN it, is to Deliver a DIRECT Monetary Benefit in the form of a Wage Increase to the Human Beings that Perform the JOB, NOT to give Corporations MORE Enormous TAX Breaks like CONservatives Preach which are ALWAYs HOARDED & NEVER Shared ~

P.S. ~ To my knowledge, there is nothing expressed within NAFTA or any other Trade Agreement which Compels or "FORCES" any Company to Ex-Patriate Jobs and or Assets to a Foreign Country ~ GREED Drives Wall Street & EARNINGs Contaminate the System ~ Exchanging Patriotism for "Maximized Profits" is all too common in the Business Community so Blame the Company for leaving the United States, not some other "Skapegoat" ~


Old Poolman profile image

Old Poolman 7 months ago from Rural Arizona Author

Thanks Mel. It just irritates me that nobody tells these minimum wage employees they won't really be putting all that raise money in their pocket.

Even with all the companies who have left there is still a need for skilled labor in this country.

My main gripe is that this problem and many others could be solved if they would work on it.

I have to wonder if the main thrust behind raising the minimum wage isn't more about increasing tax revenues.

Thanks for stopping by Mel.


Old Poolman profile image

Old Poolman 7 months ago from Rural Arizona Author

AP - Your comment is still not quite on topic but close enough.


RJ Schwartz profile image

RJ Schwartz 7 months ago from Idaho Falls, Idaho

Setting any kind of artificial floor on the wage rate causes unemployment - plain and simple. Allow the free market to work.


Alternative Prime profile image

Alternative Prime 7 months ago from > California

WHY thank U Old Poolman ~ It's essentially a Generalized Comment with regard to the Notion of the "Hub Title" that there are somehow "Negatives" Attached to Raising the Minimum Wage for American Workers ( SLAVEs) ~ $7.25 which is the current FED Minimum Wage is POVERTY Pay even in Wyoming, Allowing it to Stagnate or even LOWERING it as Trump has implied is really Nonsensical especially in Progressive Regions of the Nation ~

P.S. RJ ~ There is NO "Free Market" in the United States, Moreover, we do not live in a Democracy or Republic, we actually reside in a "Kingdom" where a small select few individuals CONTROL the Strings ~ If you've been watching the GOP Prez Race, this should be Quite Obvious & CLEARLY Evident ~


RJ Schwartz profile image

RJ Schwartz 7 months ago from Idaho Falls, Idaho

Enjoy your fantasy AP - I'm going write a hub explaining the way minimum wage hurts overall employment levels just for your education.

So tell me, do you worship "King" Obama ??


Old Poolman profile image

Old Poolman 7 months ago from Rural Arizona Author

AP - The whole point of the hub was to show that this wage increase is not as great as many are hoping for. Unfortunately they will not benefit as much as they think they will.


Tom T profile image

Tom T 7 months ago from Orange County, CA

Thanks for this post. The easiest way to nuke the idea that raising minimum wage is a good thing without consequence is to ask why stop at $15? If $15 is good, isn't $20 better? What about $50? Maybe we should just raise it to $50/hr then entry level/low/non skilled workers can have a 6 figure income and buy big houses. Wouldn't that be great for the economy!

Using this feel-good logic, the politics of raising minimum wage must be a good and moral thing so we have to do it because it is the right thing to do. Another way to say this is judge us on our good intentions and how it makes us feel good but please ignore the real life consequence. It is doomed for failure and will certainly result in far more harm to people than benefit.


Old Poolman profile image

Old Poolman 7 months ago from Rural Arizona Author

Tom T - Thanks for the great comment.

I don't think minimum wage jobs were ever meant to be a lifetime career. They started as a wage paid to employees with no experience for entry level jobs. Training employees is expensive because they usually are not producing much if any profit for the employer. They often make costly mistakes until they learn the ropes of the job they are working.

The responsibility to rise above minimum wage falls partially on the employee to show what they can do. Promotions to a higher level job come with pay increases.

For instance, there are lots of stories regarding dish washers who later become restaurant owners. This is not an every day occurrence but it does happen.

If there is no chance for promotion where they are working they can take their newly acquired skills and move to a better employer.


Alternative Prime profile image

Alternative Prime 7 months ago from > California

Stay in the "STICKs" Fellas, a far off place where a Grotesquely OUTRAGEOUS & Unnecessary 21 MILLION Dollar Annual Salary & Bonus Paid to the GREEDY Ceo of Nabisco is acceptable to you, but a much needed RAISE for AMERICAN Workers that Actually do the Heavy LIFTING is somehow interpreted as a "Negative" ~ Sorry, but it's really incomprehensible and just a very STRANGE & Suspicious Stance to take, but a Deplorable Position that the Majoriy of Congressional Republicans adhere to daily ~ It's Clearly Evident you're "Stuck in the PAST" with Trump & his OLD School Generals Patton & McArthur, trying to Combat a 21st Century Foe with Antiquated THINKING ~ And who needs all that Big FANCY "HealthCare" stuff anyway?

Your Attitudes toward the American Worker CLEARLY Illustrates the Distinct Differences between LARGE Densly Populated Regions of the Country which Primarily SUPPORT Minimum Wage Increases and a Modernized Progressive Democratic Future, versus the Sparsely Populated Rural Regions where STAGNATION & Regression According to CONservative Republican Ideals & Values Prevails ~


Old Poolman profile image

Old Poolman 7 months ago from Rural Arizona Author

AP - I thought you were getting back on track but guess not.

Nothing in this hub was about the outrageous salaries the CEO's make. That bears discussion but is off topic for this hub. This hub is about the small amount of money the employee will get to put in their pocket even with a $5 per hour raise.

Nobody is saying they should not make more money that I can see. Point me to a comment where anyone said wages should not increase and we can talk about it.

Your hard-core liberal thinking is preventing you from seeing the real picture about what is going on. Your wandering all over the map comments are getting us nowhere and adding nothing to this topic. Did you even read the part about government sponsored skills training?

Either stay on topic or write your comments somewhere else. I have grown weary of these type comments. You are free to disagree, but please read the darn hub and stay on topic.


Alternative Prime profile image

Alternative Prime 7 months ago from > California

Have NO Fear "Old POOLMAM" this will be my FINAL Comment on this subject in this particular VENUE ~

Just FYI ~ Raising the Minimum WAGE is a "NET Positive" for ALL Beneficiaries Involved, Especially to the WORKER (SLAVE) even subsequent to State and or Fed Taxes Paid or other Accounting Measures ~ We live in a Governemental STRUCTURE at every LEVEL, Municipal, State & Federal which provide the "Essential GLUE" to keep us Functioning as a "UNITED" States ~ With a "KINGDOM" Style Overlay of course ~ Paying a TAX is OUR Patriotic DUTY, and Paying a Little MORE subsequent to a Substantial RAISE is Understood & ACCEPTABLE to Progressive Democrats ~ We Understand TAXES are Essential for Modernization, Infrastructure etc ~

Hope I was more "On Target" this time, but I'm confident your response might suggest otherwise ~

P.S. ~ You reside in one of the MOST Beautiful Regions of this GREAT Country, the Scenery is nothing less than Breathtaking at the "Grand Canyon", Sedona, Kingman, etc ~ I VISIT Arizona Quite Often, NORTHWestern Area Mostly and I'm NEVER Dissappointed ~ I Vehemently Disagree with the Politics, but that's what makes AZ what it is I guess ~


Old Poolman profile image

Old Poolman 7 months ago from Rural Arizona Author

From your view, you are right on target. There is much more to it than has been posted in this hub, but we can save that for another day.


Alternative Prime profile image

Alternative Prime 7 months ago from > California

CORRECTION ~ Pool"MAN" not "MAM" ~ My Bad, My Mistake ~


Old Poolman profile image

Old Poolman 7 months ago from Rural Arizona Author

LOL - No problem. My fingers stumble on occasion too.


WillStarr profile image

WillStarr 7 months ago from Phoenix, Arizona

The answer, of course, is to get government completely out of business and let the free market settle wages based on the law of supply and demand (it's called a'law' for a very good reason!).

In addition, get rid of income taxes and all other payroll deductions and use a federal sales tax to fund government.

Bring back jobs to the US by eliminating all corporate taxes (consumers end up paying them anyway!), and easing the federal burdens on business.

All this drivel about 'fairness' is just that...drivel. You earn what you are worth, and a hamburger flipper is not worth much.

Want a good job? Then learn a trade of get an education because unskilled, uneducated people simply aren't worth high wages.


Old Poolman profile image

Old Poolman 7 months ago from Rural Arizona Author

Hello WillStar, how the heck is my favorite story writer?

As you can see in my hub, 1/3 of all the money earned in this wage increase will go to State and Federal government. I have to think Governor Brown was well aware of this fact when he passed this law in California. It is a real shame the employees don't know this and will be in for a shock when they get their first paycheck after the increase.

They refuse to believe that prices will go up after this wage increase. In their mind the employers should just eat the additional costs and corporations should cut the wages for the CEO's. Most of us know prices will go up for everyone as costs go up.

But, trying to explain this and get them to understand it is nearly impossible.

Thanks for jumping in Bill, and your comment is appreciated.


WillStarr profile image

WillStarr 7 months ago from Phoenix, Arizona

Progressives like Alternative Prime don't seem to realize that their own policies are the problem.

The reason they want to raise the minimum wage is because their socialist program spending has put us $20,000,000,000,000 in debt and that has caused inflation.

The reason there are fewer decent jobs is because the punitive high taxes and heavy regulations that progressives want have forced companies to relocate offshore in order to survive.

Lots of formerly good paying jobs like construction no longer pay that well and labor unions have lost millions of members because illegals have flooded the market, driving down wages. That is also due to progressives who openly encourage the invasion.

Obamacare has placed even heavier burdens on businesses, and millions of full time jobs are now part time to avoid the heavy cost of this awful law.

Yet progressives like Alternative Prime can't see that because they do not use logic and reason. They use emotions, and to them, we should all live in la-la land with unicorns and rainbows. Reality is not a concept they understand.


Old Poolman profile image

Old Poolman 7 months ago from Rural Arizona Author

WillStarr - I just read in the Wall Street Journal where Obama plans to implement at least 20 anti-business executive actions between now and his leaving office. If Congress is not able to stop him, it will depend on the next President to undo the damage. If Hillary wins, she has said she will carry all of his actions forward and has a few of her own to add to it.

Why are they trying so hard to destroy this country?


RJ Schwartz profile image

RJ Schwartz 7 months ago from Idaho Falls, Idaho

They don't care about anything other than power - when we all depend on th government, they win.


Old Poolman profile image

Old Poolman 7 months ago from Rural Arizona Author

Ralph you nailed it again.


RJ Schwartz profile image

RJ Schwartz 7 months ago from Idaho Falls, Idaho

I really am working on a real hub which is pure economic theory that will hopefully educate those who feel minimum wage is so great. I am putting it in simple terms that is easy to follow. It should be cool


Old Poolman profile image

Old Poolman 7 months ago from Rural Arizona Author

Looking forward to reading that one. I can almost smell the smoke from the heat that one will draw. You can be sure Leslie and AP will keep you busy.


WillStarr profile image

WillStarr 7 months ago from Phoenix, Arizona

Labor is a commodity, and wages should be determined by supply and demand. Anything else is counter productive.


Old Poolman profile image

Old Poolman 7 months ago from Rural Arizona Author

Very well said WillStar.


RJ Schwartz profile image

RJ Schwartz 7 months ago from Idaho Falls, Idaho

Exactly, but I've also included some info on how firms determine their demand for labor


Old Poolman profile image

Old Poolman 7 months ago from Rural Arizona Author

That should be interesting.


RJ Schwartz profile image

RJ Schwartz 7 months ago from Idaho Falls, Idaho

I finally finished it - it's long but worth the read


RJ Schwartz profile image

RJ Schwartz 6 months ago from Idaho Falls, Idaho

OP - just caught an article where an ex-McDonalds executive gives his take on this topic http://www.newsmax.com/Finance/StreetTalk/McDonald...


Old Poolman profile image

Old Poolman 6 months ago from Rural Arizona Author

Thanks Ralph, that pretty well sums up what we were already thinking.


norlawrence profile image

norlawrence 3 months ago from California

Very good article. People getting paid more sounds great to the people getting the raise in pay but how many small businesses will close because of it. How many peoples hours will get cut because of it. In the area where I live I do not think it will be a good thing.


Old Poolman profile image

Old Poolman 3 months ago from Rural Arizona Author

norlawrence - Thanks for the comment. I read where some who have gotten this mandatory pay increase are now asking for a cut in pay to get their benefits back. But I'm not sure if this is true or just another false story on the internet.


norlawrence profile image

norlawrence 3 months ago from California

I have not heard that.


Glenn Stok profile image

Glenn Stok 3 months ago from Long Island, NY

I have always been against raising the minimum wage because I know the result would be loss of jobs. But most people don't understand how the economy works.

You explained the finances very well, and you also explained why the government would want to do such a thing.

The one simply fact that most people don't understand about minimum wage is that the employee has to bring in more profit for the company than they are getting paid. If the wage is higher than that amount, they get fired.


Old Poolman profile image

Old Poolman 3 months ago from Rural Arizona Author

Hello Glenn, I guess until you have actually been in business it is difficult to understand why business owners don't just pay $25 per hour for unskilled labor.

Many fast food workers actually believe the owner actually gets to keep all the money they see crossing the counter into the cash register. They know nothing about operating costs and have no idea about how low the profit margin is at some locations.

But then how could they know? Schools don't even teach this type stuff anymore.


Glenn Stok profile image

Glenn Stok 3 months ago from Long Island, NY

You're right Mike. Even in my school days they didn't teach important issues. Business and finance was never taught, except in college when people chose to major in those fields.


Old Poolman profile image

Old Poolman 3 months ago from Rural Arizona Author

Most employees have no idea about the risk/reward system that goes with owning a small business. Very few would be willing to risk everything they owned to open a new small business. Some business owners don't take home as much pay as their highest paid employee.


Glenn Stok profile image

Glenn Stok 3 months ago from Long Island, NY

Yes I know that only too well, since I had my own small business for over 30 years.


Old Poolman profile image

Old Poolman 3 months ago from Rural Arizona Author

I only had mine for 20 years but that was enough. I even talked to my employees about a profit sharing plan but they were not interested because then they would also share some of the risk.


norlawrence profile image

norlawrence 2 weeks ago from California

Very good article. I learned a lot from it.

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