No AR-15s, No Show

Catering To A Few

After a week of protests and vendor pullouts, likely under the orders of the National Rifle Association and the gun manufacturers that it represents, the annual Eastern Sports and Outdoor Show was indefinitely postponed.

To those who accept the NRA's rhetoric, this is an example of the groups power. A show, designed for hunters, etc, that decided that exhibits of assault weapons, high-capacity magazines, etc would not be allowed. To them, this was an attack on the 2nd Amendment.

But look at this from the perspective of someone who does not see the world through a sight. We had a show that for those who enjoy the outdoors; with exhibits of fishing, archery, taxidermy, and expeditions. The group that organized the show, perhaps out of respect for the victims of Newtown, Connecticut, wished to exclude exhibits from manufacturers of weapons that seem to be designed for no purpose other than for an insurgency. Who needs a 30 round magazine to hunt a deer. or to protect their home?

And what of those who enjoy the outdoors in other ways? Those who come to the show to check out the latest fishing rods, reels and lures, or try the newest bow and arrow, or take to the water in canoes and kayaks?

Perhaps the solution is to have two events. One for firearms, complete with the anti-government rhetoric that is becoming the stock and trade of the NRA, etc, and another for those who prefer to fish, use a bow and arrow, or even hunt with a camera.

Comments 226 comments

Jack Burton profile image

Jack Burton 3 years ago from The Midwest

Tpc sez: After a week of protests and vendor pullouts, likely under the orders of the National Rifle Association and the gun manufacturers that it represents, the annual Eastern Sports and Outdoor Show was indefinitely postponed

Jack replies: Likely? Likely? THIS is now the standard for publishing information on hubs? It’s “likely” too that unicorns ate my roses last night. Or that a UFO abducted Obama and replaced him with a duplicate.

Tpc has no idea that the NRA was late to the party. They played catch up… not the leading role. Tpc also has no idea that the NRA doesn’t represent the gun manufactures who have their own, very able and responsive group, the NSSF. But it make him feel good to post it and that is all that matters.

Tpc sez: But look at this from the perspective of someone who does not see the world through a sight. We had a show that for those who enjoy the outdoors; with exhibits of fishing, archery, taxidermy, and expeditions.

Jack replies: How odd… for the past 30 years the show has featured the same, identical types of rifles in many of the booths and those who enjoy fishing, archery, taxidermy, and expeditions also apparently enjoyed the rifles since they came back year after year to participate.

Tpc sez: The group that organized the show, perhaps out of respect for the victims of Newtown, Connecticut, wished to exclude exhibits from manufacturers of weapons that seem to be designed for no purpose other than for an insurgency. Who needs a 30 round magazine to hunt a deer. or to protect their home?

Jack replies: It has been explained to tpc over and again that the AR platform is one of the leading rifles used in hunting in America… and that the Outdoor Life magazine rated it one of the ten best hunting rifles made. But does he care about “facts”? Nooooo…. Just feelings.

TPC sez: And what of those who enjoy the outdoors in other ways? Those who come to the show to check out the latest fishing rods, reels and lures, or try the newest bow and arrow, or take to the water in canoes and kayaks?

Jack replies: Tpc doesn’t know that it was the fishing rod vendors, the reels and lures vendors, the bow and arrow vendors and the canoes and kayak vendors who were pulling out of the show in response to the promoter’s decision. Perhaps all those vendors know their customers much better than tpc thinks he does, eh.

Tpc sez: Perhaps the solution is to have two events. One for firearms, complete with the anti-government rhetoric that is becoming the stock and trade of the NRA, etc, and another for those who prefer to fish, use a bow and arrow, or even hunt with a camera.

Jack replies: There is absolutely nothing to stop those who want to have a show without guns from putting one on. Go for it. We have a very successful big one near us every year and it doesn’t feature a single gun in the whole building. I enjoy going there every year with my gun owning buddies to see what the newest in outdoor stuff looks like.

Sooner or later people such as tpc is going to have to wake up from the fantasy they have constructed in their head about the NRA, firearms, and those who own them. Reality is much more productive to live in.

I don’t give a rip if tpc ever likes a gun, or picks one up. He can go the rest of his life as far as I am concerned staying as far away from them as possible. But it sure would be nice if he understands that broadcasting his ignorance about them on such a public forum encourages normal folk who know the truth to just laugh at his remarks.

BTW… here is the official statement from a small, clothing maker as to why he cancelled (not a gun maker, not an ammo maker, but a clothes maker)

***************************************

Thank you for your inquiry into whether or not we will be attending the Eastern Sports & Outdoor Show. As of this moment we will not be attending the ESOS Show. I had hoped that Reed Exposition would come to their senses concerning their decision to ban semi-automatic black rifles, accessories and promotional materials. As we are a small company that garners 25% of our yearly revenue from this event the decision not to attend was very difficult for us to make. Seeing our brother vendors, especially those small vendors like ourselves brings us comfort in knowing that all share the pain in support of our 2nd amendment rights.

Please pray for us as we try and figure out how the weather this financial storm in support this noble cause. Knowing that many have given their lives in support of this cause makes our financial situation seem petty I know, however being responsible for six Central Pennsylvania families weighs heavily on my shoulders.

Thank you again for your efforts on all of our behalves.

Allen W. Potter, Managing Director

IWOM Outerwear, LLC

Now, doesn’t that sound much more mature and nuanced than what tpc believes in his head?


tammybarnette profile image

tammybarnette 3 years ago

Excellent points! The NRA is just another big business pissed at Obama! I hope he puts them all in their place, behind the American people! Thanks for a great read:)


TeaPartyCrasher profile image

TeaPartyCrasher 3 years ago from Camp Hill, PA Author

You see what folks like Jack can't.


Jack Burton profile image

Jack Burton 3 years ago from The Midwest

Yes, tammy too sees unicorns and UFOs. Hardly anything to brag about, eh.


TeaPartyCrasher profile image

TeaPartyCrasher 3 years ago from Camp Hill, PA Author

At least she doesn't see the Government as the enemy like the Insurrectionists that make up the NRA, etc do.

http://www.csgv.org/issues-and-campaigns/guns-demo...

(Read 'Why Mess With the US')


ImKarn23 profile image

ImKarn23 3 years ago

To JACK BURTON: The only thing that made any sense in that ranting rhetoric of yours is this: 'IT IS BETTER TO LIVE IN REALITY' - so - why not join us- the MAJORITY - mr. burton? We'd love to have ya...(i'm DEAD serious..)

YOU make the NRA proud - knowing that the zillions they spend on indoctrinating the more easily influenced - has NOT gone to waste..

Yes, you spout their garbage fluently - and even better - you think you believe it..

But - here's what i've noticed about your 'ILK', Jack - you're all really, REALLY angry - and, i used to wonder why, but i don't anymore..

It's simply the result of 'thinking' you 'believe' in something that completely goes against one's basic humanity...

i find it sad, frightening - and VERY interesting - from a psychological point of view..

BTW - in MY country - CANADA -(which i'm sure you'll belittle in your next comment - don't forget to tell me to mind my own business...LOL..) - ANYONE who would use an AK 15 TO HUNT????

WOULD BE CALLED A PUSSY - AND WORSE...

OMG...

Your sense of fair play and sportsmanship has abandoned you across the board - and - that's part of the reason you think it's AOK to have an AK 47 - or 3 - in every home..

THE MAJORITY IS SPEAKING, Mr. Burton - OVER 70% - and yet - you remain firmly 'entrenched' - where you will stay right up until - and probably PAST - gun control laws are passed - and they Will be passed - no matter how much your 'ILK' bellows, bullies, and bullshits!

Mind-blowing how you so conveniently forgets the RIGHTS of The People to LIFE, to LIBERTY, and to the pursuit of Happiness?

Nope, it's ALL about the GUNS - let 'em cower in fear for their lives and their lives of their children - THAT'S their right, eh, JB?

You need to 'WAKE UP FROM THAT FANTASY THE NRA HAS CONSTRUCTED IN YOUR HEAD, MAN - it's ok to give it a shake and STOP drinking the kool aid!

On the other hand - i really don't 'give a RIP' - as - your ILK is going down - one way or the other..

Have a wonderfully delusional day, sir...

Excellent hub, T!


lovemychris profile image

lovemychris 3 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

It's just another indication of their mentality.....Our way or the highway...100% for us, or nothing.

It's why they are against CHOICE in anything.

Their way must always be forced on people.

And they laughingly call it "freedom."

Free-to-be-just-like-me. OR ELSE.

waaa,and boohoo. We're not even discussing. humph. And we don't have to, cause we got sugar-daddy to change our dipees.

"here, here..little ones....what's the magic word that daddy likes to hear?"....

"Money. Money. Money."

click

ka-ching

click

ka-ching

click..........OR ELSE.


Jack Burton profile image

Jack Burton 3 years ago from The Midwest

Wow... we got some ranters on today, eh.

Yet not a single one of them could actually answer what I posted about the Eastern show with, you know, "facts."

But they ffffeeellll rrreeeaaallll ggggooooddd about what they posted. And that is all that counts with this crowd.

But if those who are concerned about my beliefs towards "choice" they merely have to click on my hub, "Sarah Palin is Pro Choice" to learn my true understanding of the word.


lovemychris profile image

lovemychris 3 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

What's so hard to understand?

"Do as we say, or we'll shut you down."

Standard Operating Procedure from the Right.

What part of the last 3 years have you missed?


Jack Burton profile image

Jack Burton 3 years ago from The Midwest

lmc apparently doesn't understand that those who CHOOSE to boycott the show have their own right to make a CHOICE as to where they are going to spend their money. Unless, of course, he believes that sponsorship of the show is mandatory and all companies should be forced to participate in it.

Reid made their CHOICE to change the show at the last moment from what it was contracted for, and from the way it operated the past 30 years. The vendors made their CHOICE in response to not participate in a show that was not what they contracted for.

Which one really believes in choice? Those such as lmc who believe the vendors had no choice but to continue... or those who believe the vendors had a choice as to if they wanted to continue to participate.

Fairly self obvious, eh. Except to lmc and his buddies.

lmc just cannot understand that. And that is what I mean about living in fantasyworld in their heads. Reality just does not intrude.

Lmc still cannot contradict a single thing I posted about the show. Wonder why?


lovemychris profile image

lovemychris 3 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

Cause I didn't read it.

Guess you don't think this had anything to do with their decision:

"After a week of protests and vendor pullouts"......

Like I said: "Do as we say, or we'll shut you down."


Jack Burton profile image

Jack Burton 3 years ago from The Midwest

Again, lmc just doesn't believe in his heart that the vendors have the right to CHOOSE to "protest and pullout" against a decision by Reid that was not in the vendors' best interest.

I mentioned before that he just cannot understand that. He continues to confirm that.

Compare lmc to the letter from a vendor, Allen W. Potter, that I quoted above and see which one has a sense of maturity and the understanding of "choice."

BTW... I guess reading factual material ~would~ upset the fantasyland in lmc's head.


TeaPartyCrasher profile image

TeaPartyCrasher 3 years ago from Camp Hill, PA Author

What LaPierre, and their mouthpieces; Beck, etc don't tell him.

Great "Crash" work LMC!


TeaPartyCrasher profile image

TeaPartyCrasher 3 years ago from Camp Hill, PA Author

The vendors best interests

See "Silver And Lead"


lovemychris profile image

lovemychris 3 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

"And what of those who enjoy the outdoors in other ways? Those who come to the show to check out the latest fishing rods, reels and lures, or try the newest bow and arrow, or take to the water in canoes and kayaks?"

Ehhhhhhh. No choice for them now, is there? Accept mass-killing creations, or don't have your show.

We don't like it....so you won't have it.

SOP:


lovemychris profile image

lovemychris 3 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

TPC....did you see the Benghazi hearings? Rand Paul got his info from Glenn Beck!! Hilary said.....HUH?


Jack Burton profile image

Jack Burton 3 years ago from The Midwest

tpc deleted my very small, partial list of vendors who cancelled. On that list were those who had the latest fishing rods, reels and lures, the newest bow and arrow, and canoes and kayaks. Also deer, bear, and duck hunting vendors. And outfitters. And dog suppliers. And clothing manufacturers. And lodges. And TV shows.

As noted earlier in the post that you admittedly didn't read, those hundreds of vendors know their customers and what they want much better than YOU ever will, eh.

And yes, those poor customers who miss the show will never, ever, not once in their life, be able to drive down the street to visit the local sporting goods store, or Cabelas, or Bass Pro Shop, or Dicks, or Gander Mountain or even Walmart to see what is being offered in the sports department.

They simply have no "choice" but to go through the rest of their lives deprived of knowing what is out there. I feel so sad for them. Wahhhhh.


TeaPartyCrasher profile image

TeaPartyCrasher 3 years ago from Camp Hill, PA Author

Small?

I did read that list.

As for Wal-Mart, etc.

http://www.thenation.com/article/171808/how-walmar...


TeaPartyCrasher profile image

TeaPartyCrasher 3 years ago from Camp Hill, PA Author

Not surprised, the Right tends to rely on an echo chamber, as Jack is showing--with some help ;)


tammybarnette profile image

tammybarnette 3 years ago

"The show, which was scheduled to take place Feb. 2-10, was the subject of a boycott by exhibitors reacting to a decision by Reed to ban the sale and display of modern sporting rifles and high-capacity ammunition magazines from the event this year."

"By the time the show was canceled, an unconfirmed list of boycotting exhibitors had grown to about 350 and the controversy surrounding the gun-ban decision and its implications for 2nd Amendment rights was immense."

“Reed Exhibitions has decided to postpone, for now, the Eastern Sports and Outdoor Show given the controversy surrounding the company’s decision to limit the sale or display of assault rifles at the event,” according to a statement released by Reed on Jan. 24.."

http://www.outdoornews.com/January-2013/Eastern-Sp...

Jack Burton, So you believe the vendors KNOW that MOST people would not come if they could not have access to military assault weapons? Who believes in unicorns? This is obvious political posturing.


Jack Burton profile image

Jack Burton 3 years ago from The Midwest

I am saying that it is the vendors CHOICE to make based upon their knowledge of what is best for their company. If you believe you know better than the vendors what their customers want then go ahead and state that clearly.

Again... you apparently would deny them this business decision choice.

What could be more simple than understanding the difference between your concept of vendors have "no choice" and the venders and others concept of "choice"?


Jack Burton profile image

Jack Burton 3 years ago from The Midwest

Well, as you noted, Walmart peacefully coexists with selling modern sports rifles with other sporting goods. And...?


lovemychris profile image

lovemychris 3 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

I will make it simple:

We love assault rifles, therefore, if you want to have a show, you must include them.

No choice at all, really.

Just Do as We say. Or else--

Show protested and disrupted by operatives, until we get our way

********

Why didn't they just leave the show alone?


tammybarnette profile image

tammybarnette 3 years ago

Jack Burton, What of the people's choice? This is the point I am trying to make. The vendors decided for the people, that's not choice and freedom, that's big business playing politics.


Jack Burton profile image

Jack Burton 3 years ago from The Midwest

Tammy, I agree completely What of the people's choice who were expecting to see modern sports rifles at the show the same way they have for the past 30 years.? This is the point I am trying to make. The promoter decided for the people to take this choice away. That's not choice and freedom, that's big business playing politics.


Jack Burton profile image

Jack Burton 3 years ago from The Midwest

"Why didn't they just leave the show alone?"

Thank you, lmc, for asking the very same question the vendors and customers asked Reid. Changing the show at the very last minute from what it has been for 30 years was not a good decision on their part.

Or... are you trying to say that Reid had the choice to change the show anyway ~they~ wanted to but the vendors could only bend over and take what came their way?

I think we know what you actually meant, eh.

Oh... BTW... there was no "disruption" anywhere. Lmc likes to write things from the fantasyland in his head.


tammybarnette profile image

tammybarnette 3 years ago

Jack Burton, I believe the promoter was honestly trying to be tactful in light of the Sandy Hook incident as well as compliant with what 70% of Americans are crying out about....New York and California are already shaping state legislations more harsh than what our government wishes to impose on a federal level. I see the promoter as being tactful and the vendors as grinding an axe, but I do see your point. Whatever happened to compromise in this country. Why wouldn't they have a conversation? Why wouldn't the promoters and vendors both come out together in a country uniting way that in lieu of the Sandy Hook incident to show respect? I am tired of all the political bull and division. That horrible tragedy should have united this nation as 9/11 did, but instead one side wants to dig in their heals with "from my cold dead hands"....It's just simply retarded!


lovemychris profile image

lovemychris 3 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

"Lmc likes to write things from the fantasyland in his head." Awwww, you're just like your other buddy....."hearing bells from the looney farm".....so sweet.

And, I can turn your rhetoric back on you too.....I though the owner--as a capitalist business man--had the right to do as he pleased with his business?

Not when the NRA is involved, huh?

Just as they do with women, they must push their will on everyone.

They are phony capitalists, just as they are phony Constitution lovers, and phony defenders of "freedom".

IMFO

that's F for fanstasy..btw


Jack Burton profile image

Jack Burton 3 years ago from The Midwest

Tammy sez: Jack Burton, I believe the promoter was honestly trying to be tactful in light of the Sandy Hook incident

Jack replies: Neither of us knows the motive of Reid. But bad business decisions based on even the purest of motives are still bad business decsions.

Tammy sez: as well as compliant with what 70% of Americans are crying out about....New York and California are already shaping state legislations more harsh than what our government wishes to impose on a federal level.

Jack replies: Sorry, Tammy, but that is a bogus stat. 70 percent of Americans are not crying about semi-automatic weapons that fire one shot at a time. And using New York and California as examples of the states is pretty far-fetched.

Tammy sez: I see the promoter as being tactful and the vendors as grinding an axe,

Jack replies: Would you care to explain why a dog kennel company is “grinding an ax.” Or a duck hunting company? Or a camera company?

Tammy sez: but I do see your point.

Jack replies: Welcome to the dark side.

Tammy sez: Whatever happened to compromise in this country. Why wouldn't they have a conversation?

Jack replies: Do you know that the vendors tried for weeks to get Reid to change their mind? Do you know that the biggest names in the business tried for weeks to get Reid to go back to the way the show was contracted? Do you understand that Reid adamantly refused to listen to a word the vendors said?

Tammy sez: Why wouldn't the promoters and vendors both come out together in a country uniting way that in lieu of the Sandy Hook incident to show respect?

Jack replies: Because what the promoter did showed great disrespect for the 80,000,000 law abiding gun owners who have never once hurt anyone with their firearms and never intend to. Because the vendors know full well that allowing one bogus “show of respect” will eventually give cause to shut down the entire concept of shows such as that. Because the vendors know that this is what their own customers wanted them to do.

Tammy sez: I am tired of all the political bull and division. That horrible tragedy should have united this nation as 9/11 did,

Jack replies: If you’re tired of it then ask yourself which side is trying to use the tragedy to get their own way on major social changes? Which side is using politics to change America and which side is merely trying to defend the freedoms they have. Which side is proposing laws in Congress that they know full well have no chance of passing?

Tammy sez: but instead one side wants to dig in their heals with "from my cold dead hands"....It's just simply retarded!

Jack replies: So you believe that “one side” can do as they please with no opposition from the gun owners? And you call things “retarded” eh.


lovemychris profile image

lovemychris 3 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

"So you believe that “one side” can do as they please with no opposition from the gun owners? "

It's HIS business!!!


Jack Burton profile image

Jack Burton 3 years ago from The Midwest

Lmc sez: And, I can turn your rhetoric back on you too.....I though the owner--as a capitalist business man--had the right to do as he pleased with his business?

Jack replies: I love lmc. He’s so sweet and naïve. Reid had every right to do as he pleased with his business (however, there are contractual issues involved but that is beside the point.)

But lmc cannot acknowledge because of the fantasy in his head that each VENDOR -- as a capitalist business man--had the right to do as he pleased with his business?

Want to “turn more” back on me so I can keep building my points? I love to have the help you give to make my case.

Lmc sez: Not when the NRA is involved, huh?

Jack replies: Errrrr…. What does a dog kennel company that boycotts the show have to do with the NRA? Or a camera company? A knife company? A bow and arrow company? A canoe company? A bread and breakfast lodge?

It’s just more fantizsing from lmc.

Lmc replies: Just as they do with women, they must push their will on everyone.

Jack replies: Wow… where did ~that~ one come from. Lmc is hitting keyboard keys at random now, eh.

Lmc sez: They are phony capitalists, just as they are phony Constitution lovers, and phony defenders of "freedom".

Jack replies: Let’s see…. Lmc doesn’t believe that capitalist companies have the choice of whom to do business with… he doesn’t believe in the Constitutional right of association… and he doesn’t believe that people who go to outdoor shows have the freedom to choose not to go.

What more needs to be said about “phony”?


Jack Burton profile image

Jack Burton 3 years ago from The Midwest

lmc sez: It's HIS business!!!

Jack replies: and just what is his "business" lmc?


tammybarnette profile image

tammybarnette 3 years ago

Jack, I try to show respect and try to see where you are coming from and you decide to play politics with me. The vendors tried to convince him to change his mind and he wouldn't...sounds like standing up for principles instead of bending to the will of big business, much as our POTUS does. We will never agree or obviously even find a nice middle ground so we must respectfully disagree. Have a great evening:) And if I made a mistake on the exact percentage I do apologize and will bring back a link to correct that because I believe n using facts, I do however KNOW it is the majority of Americans.


lovemychris profile image

lovemychris 3 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

"the annual Eastern Sports and Outdoor Show ."

Had to cancel, because big guns were un-invited. If the NRA truly believed in free enterprise, they would accept that decision without whining.

The show could have gone on without them.

But instead, they cancelled the whole thing.

It's the Modus Operandi on everything the Right-Wingers do.

Force, never freedom.


Jack Burton profile image

Jack Burton 3 years ago from The Midwest

Tammy sez: Jack, I try to show respect and try to see where you are coming from and you decide to play politics with me.

Jack replies: OMG… discussing politics on a political issue? Oh noes…. Especially when the other poster brings the issue up FIRST.

Tammy sez: The vendors tried to convince him to change his mind and he wouldn't...sounds like standing up for principles instead of bending to the will of big business,

Jack replies: Well, the vast majority of the vendors were very, very small businesses who were standing up for principles. How big of a business to you think a “dog kennel” is, anyway?

You’re slipping back into the mindset that as long as you agree with one side he can stand up for principles but if you agree disagree with the other side they cannot stand up for their principles.

Tammy sez: much as our POTUS does.

Jack replies: Playing politics much?

Tammy sez: We will never agree or obviously even find a nice middle ground so we must respectfully disagree. Have a great evening:)

Jack replies: Having you agree with me is never the point. Having the readers understand that most of what you post is grounded in fantasy and a complete lack of knowledge on the subject is the point.

Tammy sez: And if I made a mistake on the exact percentage I do apologize and will bring back a link to correct that because I believe n using facts,

Jack replies: Don’t want to hurt your feelings further, Tammy, but you post very few “facts” and those are almost always wrong. You post from your feelings. You are an emotional poster.

Tammy sez: I do however KNOW it is the majority of Americans.

Jack replies: Go for it.


tammybarnette profile image

tammybarnette 3 years ago

Sixty-five percent also support banning high-capacity ammunition magazines, a high in three ABC/Post polls to test the idea since early 2011, and up by 6 percentage points since just after the Newtown shootings. Among other suggestions, 58 percent favor banning the sale of so-called assault weapons, 55 percent support the National Rifle Association’s call for armed guards in schools and 51 percent would ban semi-automatic handguns.

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2013/01/on-ev...


lovemychris profile image

lovemychris 3 years ago from Cape Cod, USA


tammybarnette profile image

tammybarnette 3 years ago

Tammy sez: checkmate:) Have a great day Jack, must be nice living in fantasy land somewhere in a Norman Rockwell painting I imagine, I wish I could live there as well, but I am a realist.


ImKarn23 profile image

ImKarn23 3 years ago

I notice that mr. burton has not responded in any way, shape or form to my so-called 'rant'- also known as the 'dead-on truth'..

While on the one hand i am surprised that the denials, the sarcasm, the put-downs, the disrespectful smirking words - didn't extend to me - on the other i also realize that a true predator can spot his chosen victims from a mile away - therefore mr. burton will beat up on those whom he feels he can bully..

interesting how every single comment goes against mr. burtons desperately held rhetoric - and yet - he still feels that he's the only smart one in the room - and the rest of us are just plain idiots..

in all honesty - i feel sorry for you mr. burton - deaf, dumb, and blind doesn't begin to cover your ailments..

no wonder you're so angry..

no wonder you go into the woods with your AR15's and call it 'hunting' instead of slaughtering...

it must make you feeeeeellllllll soooooooo goooooodddddd, eh, mr. burton?

Your arguments are as transparent and boring as you are sir..

i have only one question: How bout them dead kids, eh?

SIGH..


Jack Burton profile image

Jack Burton 3 years ago from The Midwest

Jack sez: My goodness….taking a poll right after children died. That is why we don’t have direct democracy so that a frenzied mob rule runs the country. And supposedly high cap mags are not “assault weapons”.

Tammy sez: Among other suggestions, 58 percent favor banning the sale of so-called assault weapons,

Jack replies: Tammy, do you actually understand that the vast majority of those who are in favor of “banning” assault weapons think they are banning fully automatic weapons (which have been generally banned since 1934). I can put together a poll that would give you virtual assurance that the majority of people would want to ban the killer chemical, dihydrogen monoxide.

Dihydrogen monoxide is colorless, odorless, tasteless, and kills uncounted thousands of people every year. Most of these deaths are caused by accidental inhalation of DHMO, but the dangers of dihydrogen monoxide do not end there. Prolonged exposure to its solid form causes severe tissue damage. Symptoms of DHMO ingestion can include excessive sweating and urination, and possibly a bloated feeling, nausea, vomiting and body electrolyte imbalance. For those who have become dependent, DHMO withdrawal means certain death.

Of course, when they find out it is actually just plain “water” they are banning they are in the same category of those who want to ban non-existent “assault weapons” from the streets.

Run a poll without the scare tactics and see what you get.


Jack Burton profile image

Jack Burton 3 years ago from The Midwest

lmc... all you did was post statements from some few folk in the NRA that you politically disagree with. Big deal.


Jack Burton profile image

Jack Burton 3 years ago from The Midwest

tammy sez: Tammy sez: checkmate:) Have a great day Jack, must be nice living in fantasy land somewhere in a Norman Rockwell painting I imagine, I wish I could live there as well, but I am a realist.

Jack repleis: Just to clarify, Tammy... you are the one who believes that only those who do not like guns get choices. Everyone else has to abide by those choices. I think the readers can tell which fantasy is in whose head.


Jack Burton profile image

Jack Burton 3 years ago from The Midwest

SIGH? SIGH?

Is that you, Mr. Gore?

Yes, karm, you are right. I ignored you. When you have something of value to contribute I'll get back to you. But emotional rants and your slobbering all over the keyboard don't require a response from me. no matter how pathetically and desperately you plead for attention.

But we all notice that you don't actually add anything to the discussion of the Eastern show... or dispute any of the comments I made about it.


tammybarnette profile image

tammybarnette 3 years ago

Jack discovers changing the subject, sounds like the heritage foundation...Does Jack also realize that this ban was signed in in 1994 by Bill Clinton and Ronald Reagan wrotea letter to congress urging them to pass the bill because he as well thought military weapons have no need in civilian hands? Does Jack also realize that when Congress let this ban expire in 2004 the US was somewhere around #68 on the homocide with gun list and now we are either #1 or #7 according to different sources? So, maybe, just possibly, the gun ban helped? Maybe, just possibly, it would help future generations, our children and grand children, too live in a safer society? Do we care about their rights? Do the future generations, do our children have a right to safety?


Jack Burton profile image

Jack Burton 3 years ago from The Midwest

Wayne sez: No one has ever said one word of empathy, sorrow, I'm sorry from anyone from the NRA, Republicans, Ted Nugent, Chuck Norris, Tom Selleck, the President of the NRA, Grover Norquist and all the others that are yelling are screaming about the Second Amendment! NOT ONE WORD!

Jack replies; This is plain bogus, Dear Readers. Of course anyone who could has offered an expression of sympathy for those families. You’ll have to ask Wayne why he doesn’t’ know that.

Wayne sez: So yes, what about the dead children?

Jack replies: The children were killed by a very mentally disturbed young man. And you are gleefully dancing in their blood. This is just the type of tragedy that anti-gun folk such as you were praying for. I’d bet you felt a real tingle of frisson up your spine when you heard about it and thought to yourself, “Yes, THIS is just what we need.”

Wayne sez: This is something that has really pissed me off!

Jack replies: Really? You sound like you finally found your Nirvana.


tammybarnette profile image

tammybarnette 3 years ago

Wayne, I heard about their video game but did not know the details...coffins? WOW! I also was unaware of such a high number of private sells. All purchases should require background checks and registration. My husband and I were actually talking about that earlier this evening, not on such large scale, but one friend selling to another friend...my husband suggested maybe these transactions should be processed at the local police station or court office.

I wanted to state here as well that I am all for the 2nd ammendement, I believe in our right to bear arms, but I see no need for civilians to own military weapons or high capacity magazines.


lovemychris profile image

lovemychris 3 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

They are the same rabid right-wingers (fascists) who've been ruining this country for decades. Read some of what they say.....and these people own guns. It's terrorism, and you don't care.


lovemychris profile image

lovemychris 3 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

NRA board member:

“If a guy can’t rape his wife…who’s he gonna rape?”

“There wouldn't be an issue with domestic violence if women would learn to keep their mouth shut.”

*****

"Men are afraid that women will laugh at them. Women are afraid that men will kill them.”― Margaret Atwood (author of The Handmaid's Tale---primer for the Tea Party fascists)


Jack Burton profile image

Jack Burton 3 years ago from The Midwest

Tammy sez: Jack discovers changing the subject, sounds like the heritage foundation...

Jack replies: And just what “subject” did I change, eh. Be specific. Give detail.

Tammy sez: Does Jack also realize that this ban was signed in in 1994 by Bill Clinton and Ronald Reagan wrotea letter to congress urging them to pass the bill

Jack replies: Tammy doesn’t know that the so called AWB ban didn’t actually “ban” any weapons from being sold. She really thinks that it stopped the sale of evil back rifles. Don’t you, Tammy? Tammy wants to educate a life long gun owner and collector about the law when she has no clue as to what it did or didn’t do.

Tammy really thinks that is was illegal to buy and sell these rifles during this period. That is 100 opposite from reality. But Tammy doesn’t know that.

As for Mr. Reagan, I am not responsible for what he chose to do. Wouldn’t be the first time I’ve had disagreement with his actions.

Tammy sez: because he as well thought military weapons have no need in civilian hands?

Jack replies: Military weapons? Tammy doesn’t know that the lever action rifle was invented in 1960 as specifically as a “war weapon” and went on to become the most popular hunting rifle over the next 80 years. Tammy doesn’t know that the Mauser bolt action rifle was specifically developed as a “war weapon” in the 1880s and went on to become the second most popular hunting rifle over the next 100 years. Tammy doesn’t know jack about guns… but she sure does think she knows what a “war weapon” is even though the AR has never been to war.

Tammy sez: Does Jack also realize that when Congress let this ban expire in 2004 the US was somewhere around #68 on the homocide with gun list and now we are either #1 or #7 according to different sources? So, maybe, just possibly, the gun ban helped?

Jack replies: let’s look at reality again…

“We cannot clearly credit the ban with any of the nation’s recent drop in gun violence.”

-- An Updated Assessment of the Federal Assault Weapons Ban: Impacts on Gun Markets and Gun Violence, 1994-2003, National Institute of Justice, June 2004

“The ban has failed to reduce the average number of victims per gun murder incident or

multiple gunshot wound victims.”

-- Impacts of the 1994 Assault Weapons Ban: 1994-96, National Institute of Justice, March 1999

“The public safety benefits of the 1994 ban have not yet been demonstrated.”

-- Ibid

“Passing a law like the assault weapons ban is a symbolic, purely symbolic move

... Its only real justification is not to reduce crime but to desensitize the public

to the regulation of weapons in preparation for their ultimate confiscation.”

-- Charles Krauthammer, Syndicated

Columnist, The Washington Post

April 5, 1996

Tammy sez: Maybe, just possibly, it would help future generations, our children and grand children, too live in a safer society?

Jack replies; And maybe it won’t. Maybe it will help our children and grandchildren live in a much darker age if you get your way.

Tammy sez: Do we care about their rights? Do the future generations, do our children have a right to safety?

Jack replies: Well, you’re the one trying to take rights away from the American public. I’d say that the future generations will curse your name if you get your way.


Jack Burton profile image

Jack Burton 3 years ago from The Midwest

Wayne sez: They talk about these gun shows, put there is even a bigger problem folks!

That's PRIVATE people in their homes that have FIREARM DEALERS LICENSE. that operate out of their houses or when they're at work that sell guns to just anyone WITHOUT any checks, period!

No matter what type of gun, they have that Federal Firearms dealer license, buy and sell at will.....

This is in the homes in the comfort of their sofa and TV.....

Probably 99.9% of the people don't know this....

If they aren't in a regular retail shop, they should pull all those license's and never allow those sales. Or make every sale REGISTERED..... Background check....

Jack replies: This is as bogus as can be, Dear Readers, and it shows the desperate length that gun bigots will go to lie about the most basic facts.

Under Clinton’s presidency a federal law was passed that did away with tens of thousands of “table top” dealers. Virtually all state zoning laws now REQUIRES a licensed dealer to have a brick and mortar store. It is exceedingly rare to find a FFL who operates from their home.

And ALL FFLS, no matter where or when they sell a gun on their books, has to follow all federal and state laws concerning background checks. If they don’t they are committing a federal felony.


tammybarnette profile image

tammybarnette 3 years ago

Jack, No I am not a collector or enthusiest of guns but believe they have a place in society, I have no doubt that guns made in the 18 and 1900's are now hunting rifles, but military assault weapons are only used for hunting...people!

Your "reality check" was an outdated report, that of course I read, being a proponent on factual information, but now with 20/20 vision and history behind we can SEE that it did INDEED have an impact.

I actually watched Charles Krauthammer this morning, and he whistled a different tune.

I understand the "fear Tactic propaganda" quite well that Obama wants to confiscate weapons...OOOHHH that mighty dictator who fights for women's rights, gay rights, healthcare for all...mercy, sounds just like Hitler doesn't he, LMBO.....

I actually would like our future generations to have an EDUCATION and fight with their minds instead of yet another red neck gun toting generation screaming from my "COLD DEAD HANDS" since lets just face facts here JACK, If the government takes over, technology is the key, shut off the lights, power, water, and watch all us dumbass redneck Americans kill one another for the last loaf of bread! Wake up friend! Big Business Cares Not About LIFE, LIBERTY, AND THE PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS!!!! Little known secret, they just want you to spend till you can spend no more, then they have no further use for you! Lights OUT!


Jack Burton profile image

Jack Burton 3 years ago from The Midwest

Tam,my sez: Jack, No I am not a collector or enthusiest of guns

Jack replies: Yes, that is obvous. That is one of the reasons you fall for every false concept that is out there.

Tammy sez: I have no doubt that guns made in the 18 and 1900's are now hunting rifles,

Jack sez: So you’re okay with the idea that guns that were made specifically for the purpose of “hunting people” as “weapons of war” are now used to hunt animals. Are you positively sure about that?

Tammy sez: but military assault weapons are only used for hunting...people!

Jack replies: Tammy… this is where your ignorance is running away with your mouth again. There are NO “military assault weapons” that are being sold to the public. None.

You were sold a real bill of goods that you fell for totally. You’re no different than the person who buys a chunk of fool’s gold thinking it’s real gold to later find out they have been swindled. Except you’re not yet willing to admit that you have been swindled about the whole concept of “military assault weapons,” what they are, and what they are not.

Read my hub on “Evil Black Rifles” and you’ll find out more in five minutes than you’ve learned so far in a lifetime about these rifles. You stated you want “facts” when you discuss things. Okay. Read the hub and get some actual “facts” so you can be a much better poster.

Tammy sez: Your "reality check" was an outdated report, that of course I read, being a proponent on factual information, but now with 20/20 vision and history behind we can SEE that it did INDEED have an impact.

Jack replies: And just who says the report is “outdated”? You? And your expertise in this area is….?

And just what “impact” did a ban that banned nothing have? Every person during that period who wanted to buy an AR or AK style rifle could buy one. Every person who wanted to sell an AR or AK style rifle during that period could sell one. Please tell us… just what “impact” did it have?

Tammy sez: I actually watched Charles Krauthammer this morning, and he whistled a different tune.

Jack replies: Krauthammer is a gun banner. I know this. But he is honest enough to admit that a gun ban did not and would not make a bit of difference. That is exactly why I quoted him of all people. He is totally on your side… but he is honest.

Tammy sez: I understand the "fear Tactic propaganda" quite well that Obama wants to confiscate weapons...OOOHHH that mighty dictator who fights for women's rights, gay rights, healthcare for all...mercy, sounds just like Hitler doesn't he, LMBO.....

Jack replies: Do you really want to make the case that Obama would not confiscate all the guns if he could. Go for it.

BTW… New York, as you quoted, just passed a law that will confiscate hundreds of thousands of guns in the state.

Tammy sez: I actually would like our future generations to have an EDUCATION and fight with their minds instead of yet another red neck gun toting generation screaming from my "COLD DEAD HANDS"

Jack replies: Ahhhh…. Get someone like tammy posting long enough and the bigotry eventually comes out.

Tammy sez: since lets just face facts here JACK, If the government takes over, technology is the key, shut off the lights, power, water, and watch all us dumbass redneck Americans kill one another for the last loaf of bread!

Jack replies: Random keyboard stroking by Tammy here. Don’t know quite what to say.

Tammy sez: Wake up friend! Big Business Cares Not About LIFE, LIBERTY, AND THE PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS!!!! Little known secret, they just want you to spend till you can spend no more, then they have no further use for you! Lights OUT!

Jack replies: Yes, because big business has great need of a bankrupt country and people.

Sheer fantasyland thinking, Dear Readers.


Jack Burton profile image

Jack Burton 3 years ago from The Midwest

Wayne sez: That isn't true, that all guns have to be sold in a brick and mortar building.

Jack sez: Well, Wayne, if you can find someone who actually said that then you can argue the point with them. But I think you’re confusing me with someone else since I didn’t post that.

Wayne sez: First off, the have these gun sales in tents and in open air area's.

Jack replies: Yes, and what does that have to do with people selling from their homes? I as a private citizen can sell my gun at the local, open air flea market with no problem. If the zoning laws allow it, just as I noted about homes, then a FFL can sell at a tent or open air area. But neither has to do with homes, eh.

Wayne sez: Second, a small shop dealer can do business right from his or her home on the side.

Jack sez: Oh… you mean that “small shop dealer” with a “brick and mortar” store? And he can only do business from his home “on the side” if the zoning laws allow him to. Which I noted. You seem to keep overlooking that part, don’t you.

Wayne sez: And there still are FFL's out there. In the last three years I've run into and talked to many while working at the Bass Pro Shops in Atlanta, Ga. and Independence, Mo. so their out there. They even come in and tell customers that they can get a gun for them, if the store is out of stock.

Jack sez: No one said there are not FFL out there. Again, you are confusing me with another poster.

Wayne sez: I have some friends out West that made good side money by selling during their working hours in the Casino's and there were 0 background checks! Just bought them, collected their money and handed the guns over to the buyer. This was even during the time period you are stating!

Jack replies: Private sales with zero background checks are perfectly legal in most states. So what? What does that have to do with FFLs?

Wayne sez: In fact, California had a waiting period on gun sales and these buyers came across the Nevada state line to pick them up instantly. Bypassing background and waiting period!

Jack replies: Then both the seller and the buyer were breaking federal and state laws. And you let them get away with it without notifying the authorities? You are as much of the problem as the illegal dealers, eh.

Wayne sez: Years of lastest sales is 2000 to 2002 when I left out West. All these gun shows there are no background checks till this date. Hand them the money and the gun is yours. Criminal non criminal........

Jack replies: Every seller of every gun at every gun show in the country must meet all federal, state and local laws. Every buyer of every gun at every gun show in the country must meet all federal, state and local laws. Gun shows have hundreds of cops wandering through looking for personal gear for themselves. If you really want to persuade people that criminals are going to wander around all these cops while looking to break the laws of the land go for it.

You just simply do not know what you are posting on.

Wayne sez: Now none of this covers anyone that is a private citizen and has a gun for sale to the first person that come with the money first. Which happens everyday of the week.

Jack replies: Yes, in most states private citizens can sell to private individuals. They are constrained from selling to those with criminal backgrounds or a history of mental problems, and if they do so knowing they are breaking the law. A person with a criminal background or mental problem who buys a gun privately is also breaking the law.

Wayne sez: Two days ago, 3 guys stole a pickup truck from a body shop here in Kansas City. Inside the truck, the owner left his loaded gun ( stupid ) he calls in the stolen truck and it ends up in a shoot out with the police! The police won that gun battle that put many lives in harms way. You can check the K.C. news for the story... This gun crap has completely gotten out of hand! Why? Because of mental midget thinking!

Jack replies: Two weeks ago a grade school teacher in our district was convicted of molesting several children in her charge. I think we ought to ban all teachers bssed upon the actions of this one.

Wayne sez: To inform you of my knowledge in this topic, I've been a hunter since 12 yrs. old. Use to belong to the NRA till Wayne LaPierre took over, got out and stayed out. Next, I've worked and owned sporting goods stores most of my adult life! The very last gun I ever sold

Jack replies: Then why do you feel an overwhelming compulsion about spreading untruths about gun sales and those who sell them?

Wayne sez: was in 1989 in Reno, Nv. when a lady came in and wanted an Ladies S&W 38cal. Acted fine, upbeat and cheerful. Next day, the Reno Police came in and asked who sold this girl a gun. I, bucked up and said I did. They questioned me for hours! Why? Cause she went home and blew her brains out with that gun!

Jack replies: Would you have felt better if you had sold her a rope that she hanged herself with? Or the pills that she overdosed on? Or the knife she used to slit her wrists with?

Wayne sez: Gun violence isn't just about mass killings, gun violence includes killings by regular crime, Suicidies, little kids finding a gun and shooting themselves and others. Accidental shooting by adults, like those at the gun shows the last two weeks. 6 people shot at shows.

Jack replies: When you find a way to take stupid out of people get back to us.

Wayne sez: I, know guns, I know about gun sales and I know about gun crimes and violence.

Jack replies: No you don’t. You’ve already tried to pass far too much bogus info to now claim you “know guns and gun sales.” You are like the kid who claims to have been the star football player in high school and thinks the reason why the Dallas Cowboys lost the Stanley Cup is because their short stop didn’t score enough free throws.

Wayne sez: I, also know about the mental illness in this country and how rampant it is! Anyone that puts their guns before everything is mentally ill.

Jack replies: I put freedom before most anything else. Unlike you.


Jack Burton profile image

Jack Burton 3 years ago from The Midwest

Wayne sez: You made a totally FALSE statement, and called mine bogus! When, in fact you verified what I said later in your statement.

Jack replies: Okay… go for it. Should be interesting if nothing else.

You stated about Bill Clinton and look below that and read what you wrote,

Jack replies: Okay, what did I write…?

Wayne sez: That it is rare for these with FFL to sell from their homes! You try to make me look like a liar to boost your crap and yet stated I was right!

Jack replies: Wayne, you’ve got to put down that bottle. I have no idea what you are trying to post about. Get a good night sleep and get back to us with a better post on Monday.

Wayne sez: If you have to lie, you have some real head problems, your just another Ted Nugent, Wayne LaPierre and the rest of the gang. Ted Nugent is nothing but a draft dodger, that is to weakass to serve his country so he could use an AR15 but now is big and brave and has threaten the President's life twice now!

Jack replies: Wandering around looking for a topic to write about now?

Wayne sez: So back to catching your FALSE statements, I think you need to stop now before it gets deeper and you show all others that your totally wrong and not worth listening to. Ha Ha Ha Ha love it when someone hangs themselves.....

Jack replies; And this, Dear Readers, is exactly why I quote people when I answer them. It is so their own words are out there for everyone to see. Wayne cannot actually point to any statement of mine that is “false.” He just makes the drive by accusation with nothing to back it up, nothing to quote. He gives no evidence, no counter, no anything.

Here’s an Associated Press article entitled, “New Laws Take Their Toll: Gun Dealer Ranks Down” at http://tinyurl.com/bxufjq6 that will explain in detail why and how Wayne is wrong in his post about “dealers with federal licenses at home” making all kinds of illegal sales.


lovemychris profile image

lovemychris 3 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

NRA member Nugent sez:

"During a concert on August 22, 2007, Nugent called then-Senator Barack Obama a “piece of sh*t” and then-Senator Hillary Clinton as a “worthless b*tch.” Wielding an assault rifle in each hand, he suggested that Senators Barbara Boxer and Diane Feinstein “suck on” his guns."

"The pre-release cover for Nugent’s 2007 “Love Grenade” album featured a photo of a nude woman on a platter. The woman is bound with rope and has a hand grenade in her mouth. "

"During a 2006 performance of his song “Kiss My Glock,” Nugent called both gun control advocate Sarah Brady (whose husband Jim Brady was seriously injured in an assassination attempt on President Ronald Reagan) and former Attorney General Janet Reno “a dirty wh*re” and civil rights activist Jesse Jackson “a piece of sh*t.” Nugent also shot a crossbow at an effigy of Reno, causing its pants to fall off and reveal a giant phallus."

--Endorsed Mitt Romney, and Mittens called him a friend. Was on with Glen Beck on the first ever Tea Party television event, calling for Palin for president.

In a 1994 interview with Westword newspaper, Nugent called then-First Lady Hillary Clinton a “toxic c*nt” and a “two-bit wh*re for Fidel Castro.” Commenting on the immigration issue, he said, “We should put razor wire around our borders and give the finger to any piece of sh*t who wants to come here.” Finally, Nugent offered that LSD users should be caned and “go to prison in an overcrowded cell where a huge, unclean black man will f*ck [them] in the a$$ every night.”

Interviewed in late 1992 on WRIF-FM in Detroit, Michigan, Nugent referred to animal rights activist Heidi Prescott as a “worthless wh*re” and “shallow slut” before asking, “Who needs to club a seal, when you could club Heidi?”

**************misogynistic, racist, and my brother-in-law says he fences in bears, and kills them.

Terrorist....with guns.


lovemychris profile image

lovemychris 3 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

"On April 14 2012, Ted Nugent signed a plea agreement with federal prosecutors, admitting that he had illegally shot, killed and transported a black bear in southeast Alaska in May 2009 and transported it in violation of the federal Lacey Act. Nugent agreed to a $10,000 fine and a two-year probation. He also agreed to pay Alaska $600 "

---Oh, and btw, I was wrong....he's actually BOARD MEMBER of the NRA

Oh yeah....I trust HIM with an arsenal.......well, I can--because I don't live near him.

Frequent guest on Fox--endorser of Romney, Walker, Snider,etc....the whole fascist (IMO) clan.

Also has his own hate-talk radio show.....how nice.


lovemychris profile image

lovemychris 3 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

http://meetthenra.org/issues?field_issue_value_man...

You can search by issue, or search by the ties they keep...

The same as it ever was...same as it ever was...same as it ever was.....

Most effective LOBBY.... Bang Bang, Shoot Shoot

--So true, Tammy--

"Big Business Cares Not About LIFE, LIBERTY, AND THE PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS!!!! Little known secret, they just want you to spend till you can spend no more, then they have no further use for you! Lights OUT!"

They also live in that Inquisition state of mind......not kidding.

Very dark ages.

NRA-----allowed to flourish under our own eyes.

time for a mic check.


TeaPartyCrasher profile image

TeaPartyCrasher 3 years ago from Camp Hill, PA Author

Tammy:

It's not Norman Rockwell that folks like Jack live in. . .


TeaPartyCrasher profile image

TeaPartyCrasher 3 years ago from Camp Hill, PA Author

"Meet The NRA" is from a group that I got the term "Insurrectionist" from.

http://www.csgv.org


TeaPartyCrasher profile image

TeaPartyCrasher 3 years ago from Camp Hill, PA Author

Love:

But it's groups like "Occupy Wall St." that are seen as the threats to the nation?


TeaPartyCrasher profile image

TeaPartyCrasher 3 years ago from Camp Hill, PA Author

love, Tammy and Wayne:

Keep it up!


lovemychris profile image

lovemychris 3 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

Exactly. If OWS protests, the police are there with pepper spray and clubs....

makes one wonder.


lovemychris profile image

lovemychris 3 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

look at this: these people called for Obama's execution

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/01/27/1182619/-...

s t o p t h e m n o w


TeaPartyCrasher profile image

TeaPartyCrasher 3 years ago from Camp Hill, PA Author

Wayne:

The support the NRA had for gun control up util the late 1960's is a topic I would like to explore at some point.

As well as if the role of the 2nd Amendment may have been to protect the government from the people, not the other way around as the NRA, etc see it


TeaPartyCrasher profile image

TeaPartyCrasher 3 years ago from Camp Hill, PA Author

I wouldn't go THAT far.

But I do think that a lot of their rhetoric, and the Tea Party, is close to that of the militia movement. I just wonder that if Newtown isn't the wake-up call, what will it take?


lovemychris profile image

lovemychris 3 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

It's long past a wake-up call, but I think the Obama admn is very well aware of it....since his election, actually.

And I read where the BATF and HS were buying up guns and ammo to dry up the flow....

There are some who have long been calling for a race war ROHOWA, or something.

And I personally believe they will start shooting Obama supporters if the Rabid hate-talk continues.

just LISTEN to them! When they talk about people they don't like....there is absolute hatred in their voices.

Don't know who's paying them, or why they have a stranglehold on the airwaves...(duh)

But...it's been coming since 1991.

The very year HW announced the NWO.

New White Order?

and don't think people of color -- and women! hear these things and take it lightly...

Remember when that guy....running for office! (can't remember his name) said immigrants crossing the border should be shot like dogs.

And young, scared women are called baby-killers.

Life sentences for aborting a fertilized egg.

Throwing doctors in jail.....

Threats, intimidation and GUNS.

These "people" are of another breed. Look at Nugent and Beck.....they are admired by them.

They are yelling fire in a crowded theatre, and they are armed.


tammybarnette profile image

tammybarnette 3 years ago

LMC, It is very strange, they remind me of the pod people or even the Stepford Wives community,lol...It's scary though, to see how propaganda can run a muck on normal God fearing folks...I should write a sci-fi novel about it:) Our only real choice is too remain the party of knowledge and education, to use social media to get out the message...the young crowd understands reality and this is how we reach them. I mean no disrespect to a different generation and I understand their fears, but, "We have nothing to fear but fear itself" and this is what we are seeing. It astounds me that they are so brain-washed that they can not see before their very eyes a POTUS who stands for all minority rights, improved healcare and education for all is NOT what they should fear. The GOP has sold out to Big Business and they have a knack for marketing. They cry wolf over Obama's foriegn policies but never questioned mighty W, that alone says so much...they fear Obama wants to take away their rights, but care less that their party plans to take away all minority rights that were fought for and achieved, they want to go backwards to a time they remember as better and haven't read the updates behind those times in light of the transparency of today. I believe Obama will go down in history as one of the greatest POTUS of all time and I thank God the country came out and voted him back in to finish the movement he began...FORWARD!

Jack, I mean no disrespect to you and your ideas and I pray that you will have the wool removed from your eyes.

TPC, Great hub, you have inspired quite a debate:) If we could only breakthrough the barriers that are dividing us..SIGH!


tammybarnette profile image

tammybarnette 3 years ago

Wayne, AMEN! I wrote a hub called Cultural Extiction a couple of weeks ago, check it out if you have the chance...We are about to crumble as the Great Empires of old!


lovemychris profile image

lovemychris 3 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

Sick sick sick...and Cult being the operative word.

http://www.nationalconfidential.com/20130128/impri...


lovemychris profile image

lovemychris 3 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

They are infiltrating everywhere.

@owillis

god, now people at the white house press briefing are asking for comment on world net daily stories? shut the whole thing down. srsly.

******

I've noticed this before...reporters say something right out of Rush/Hannity play-book.

and even CNN reporters were using Fox tactics on Obama....and MTP...never questioning those who said something derogatory...never asking them to explain when they said something like "Obama has spent more than all presidents".....that is a lie, and these "reporters" should know it.

and no one acts like it's even unusual.....it's very very odd--

I wish we had the sun-glasses, like in the movie 'They Live'....but really, when you get down to it, all it really takes is to watch and listen.


lovemychris profile image

lovemychris 3 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

scooter51•9 months ago−

"CNN has gone off the deep end in trying to keep up with Fox ratings. They forget that what made them great to begin with was that they reported news fairly & objectively. Now they are a parody of their former self. And hiring liars and smear merchants like Loesch & Erickson do NOT enhance their stature. I've written them off entirely. CNN has no more credibility."

But then you remember that they are the ones who first had Glenn Beck and Lou Dobbs...both rabid Obama haters now.

I mean hate, Like they are spitting out his name.

Then we must suffer Michael Steele, Joe Scarborough, all these "other side" people on MSNBC....same with Current.

I don't need to hear the other side! We know what they are all about! They are just saturated everywhere...you can't escape them.

And now--Kucinich joins Fox...........I'll bet they will have him there to "smear" Obama from the left.

And yes......it has been going on. Oh so subtley....or else people will say--they need to be "fair". But Fox never is--never was when Bush was prez. And the only decent Lib was Olbermann, and he's gone.

You have the Radar Wayne.....because you have a pov. I for one, am tired of watering it down.


tammybarnette profile image

tammybarnette 3 years ago

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/07/polic...

It is time for all of us to come together — Republicans, Democrats, blue states, red states, people who own guns and people who don’t — to have a meaningful national conversation about what we can do about it,” Gross said. “I think it’s shameful that our political leaders would play politics when there are lives that can be saved.”

More than 30 people die of gun-related violence every day in the U.S., according to the Brady Campaign. If that number holds steady, 48,000 Americans will be victims of gun violence during the next presidential term.

“We truly believe, as a nation, we are better than this,” Gross said.

Even Police officers are urging Washington to stop playing politics and get serious about gun violence in this country. As I am typing my local news says assault rifles and high capasity magazines are flying off the shelves...the NRA has done a great marketing campaign an have been able to scare Americans about 2nd amendment rights overshadowing the deaths of 20 babies, so sad!


gordon 3 years ago

Jack Burton .... why waste your time? Let these people live their lives in peace.... watching dancing with the stars, American idol etc etc. Life is blissful when you believe the spoon fed garbage that the main stream media spouts on a daily basis........


lovemychris profile image

lovemychris 3 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

Uhhhhh.... Fox News IS the MSM.

Top rated in the market...isn't it? That means most people are watching it. ding ding ding-- Main Stream

All the RW hate-talk MUST be MSM, cause that's all you can get...right?

such wacka-fan-doodle. "Oh poor poor us" *sniffle* *sniffle*.....and all along, they are DOMINATING EVERYTHING.

***********

And they do it by demonizing anyone who speaks against them. Call them un-American....un-Patritotic, etc etc.

Mary MacElveen - Writer

"As I look back to when I took part in the February 15th, 2003 anti-war rally which took place all over the globe, we were pretty much treated like scum. Here we were, millions-strong and where our sole purpose was to save lives and we were almost treated like pariahs. No, I take that back, we were treated as such.

We were called every name in the book such as traitors, commies and pinkos and here we were anything but. We were trying to save lives with our collective voices.

In yesterday’s teabag protest, one only had to look at some notable politicians who went to take part as well as Fox News and in our protest, none, none wanted to have anything to do with us. That blisters me as I think back to that cold February day."

********

Blisters me too......and now-- guns are the saviors of children......

How twisted can you get?


lovemychris profile image

lovemychris 3 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

@LOLGOP

If you're more afraid of teachers with collective bargaining rights than guns, cancel basic cable.


TeaPartyCrasher profile image

TeaPartyCrasher 3 years ago from Camp Hill, PA Author

Might be a good idea. Tune in to NPR or point your browser towards a program like "Equal Time Radio", "The Rick Smith Show" or "Democracy Now"


TeaPartyCrasher profile image

TeaPartyCrasher 3 years ago from Camp Hill, PA Author

Wayne:

The NRA, etc see the victims in Newtown, etc as a "price of freedom", IMO


lovemychris profile image

lovemychris 3 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

I found this on one of my old comments....

"February 20, 2009—FOX commentator Glenn Beck hosts a program that games a 2014 civil war scenario called “The Bubba Effect.” It involves citizen militias in the South and West taking up arms against the U.S. government."

--Imagine that. He was doing it then, and he's still up to no good.

and this:

"June 24, 2009—Hal Turner, a New Jersey resident and white supremacist blogger/radio host, is arrested again after calling for the murder of three Republican-appointed jurists on the 7th Circuit Court of Appeals who had issued a June 2 decision upholding handgun restrictions in Chicago. Writing on his blog, Turner says, “Let me be the first to say this plainly: these judges deserve to be killed,” and includes photographs, phone numbers, work addresses, and room numbers of the judges, as well as a map of Chicago’s federal courthouse which points out its “anti-truck bomb” pylons."

Terrorism, plain and simple.

wth are they up to now?


lovemychris profile image

lovemychris 3 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

another one...

@CBSNews: Driver fatally shot aboard Alabama school bus http://cbsn.ws/X72I1Q

I'm getting sick. This is too much. Guns are the root of all evil.


lovemychris profile image

lovemychris 3 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

22-year-old Rodrigo Diaz pulls into wrong driveway by mistake, apologizes. The homeowner shoots Rodrigo in the head. http://goo.gl/0NRY6


Jack Burton profile image

Jack Burton 3 years ago from The Midwest

Well, I’ve given the three the chance to further beclown themselves and they have jumped on it like it is their natural state….Let’s peek and take a look, shall we…

Wayne sez: You stated that ONLY brick and mortar in the statement and that's the only place guns can be soldd.

Jack replies: As noted before… Wayne can’t actually quote me saying that. And this, amoung others, is the reason he is living in a fantasyland. He just makes up things that make him feel good.

Lmc sez: look at this: these people called for Obama's execution

Jack replies: But lmc doesn’t give a damn about the hundreds of times that Pres. Bush was hung in effigy, or the stories and movies where the authors fondly presented him as being assassinated. These folk only have indignation that goes “one way.”

Wayne sez: Up until the middle 70's the NRA was about Hunters and Target shooters! That's it! As during that time there was no fuss over the Second Amendment!

Jack replies: The gun banning crowd made the NRA what it is today. Now you get to live with your handiwork.

Wayne sez: The NRA, is a DOMESTIC TERRORIST GROUP! They should be arrested and tried as such!

Jack replies: Not much comment is needed, eh. But there is a fundamental truth here. Give a 2nd Amendment hater enough time and you’ll soon find out they also hate the 1st Amendment with the same passion.

Lmc sez: Don't know who's paying them, or why they have a stranglehold on the airwaves...

Jack replies: Yes, because we all know that conservatives have such a stranglehold on CBS, NBC, ABC, CNN and MSNBC. Can you say “living in fantasyland”?

Tammy sez: Our only real choice is too remain the party of knowledge and education,

Jack replies: And ~this~ from a person who is totally ignorant about “assault weapons” and refuses to educate herself in the least little bit. She really, really thinks “battle field rifles” are being sold down at Walmart. She is content living in a fantasyland and yet cannot actually state one thing that I have posted in error. She only posts what she ffffeeeellllsssss about me.

Wayne sez: This whole thing is RACIALLY motivated!!!! Has been, ever since President Obama said he was running for office!

Jack replies: When all else fails cry racism. Too bad that card was maxed out long ago.

Gordon sez: Jack Burton .... why waste your time? Let these people live their lives in peace.... watching dancing with the stars, American idol etc etc. Life is blissful when you believe the spoon fed garbage that the main stream media spouts on a daily basis........

Jack replies: Gordon… those three always make the basic mistake of thinking that my posts are directed towards them. Instead, I post to encourage them to further encourage them to continue with their nonsense. Each one of them is priceless when it comes to showing the fence sitters just how bankrupt the anti-freedom posters really are when it comes to honest, truthfulness and integrity.

Tpc sez: The NRA, etc see the victims in Newtown, etc as a "price of freedom",

Jack replies: There were six children who died in my town last week from a drunk driver. You see those victims as the “price of freedom” so you can enjoy your beer after cutting the grass, or the glass of wine with your dinner. If you’ve had a drink the past ten years, or even know anyone that that has had a drink then you have as much of their blood on your hands as the drunk driver.


tammybarnette profile image

tammybarnette 3 years ago

Jack Burton, I said I mean no disrespect and I will pray for you

Jack sez...BLAH, BLAH, NRA, BLAH, NRA,BLAH

I have been following the story and will continue to do so. Enjoy your assault weapons, maybe you should also purchase a tank and then write an article about that..LOL..No matter how much you protest, those children are dead and they should not be, that's the facts Jack!


lovemychris profile image

lovemychris 3 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

Maybe it's foreign to him when people have genuine anger and outrage at a genuine horror-show?

Not like this fake horror his side is peddling in order to keep the money flowing.

Fake horror:

Buy guns....buy guns......buy bullets....buy bullets.....They're comin to get ya.

Real Horror:

A stranger comes in your periphery....shoot. You can claim self-defense later.

You want what you want, and you want it now.

Point the gun at them.....Might is Right.

Dead kids, on a daily basis.

The price for YOUR freedom. The innocent have none.

The rest of us have none.

You feel free to walk around with a loaded gun?.........

That is not a "well-regulated militia"....that is a bully with a deadly weapon.


lovemychris profile image

lovemychris 3 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

Former NRA lobbyist: Wayne LaPierre listens to his board – not members who support background checks http://bit.ly/TdecV4

And--you can go click the links in this comments section to see who's on the board.....YOWZA.


lovemychris profile image

lovemychris 3 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

@LOLGOP

NRA logic applied to immigration reform: Why should we have borders? Criminals are going to cross them anyway.


lovemychris profile image

lovemychris 3 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

@TheDailyEdge

NRA background check: Which of these does Walmart wisely refuse to sell? a) Sig Sauer M400 semiautomatic assault rifle; b) Sheryl Crow CD

SAYS IT ALL! No care for 1st amendment----only 2nd. Can kill, but no poo-poo words.

silly, childish and deadly. IMHOO


TeaPartyCrasher profile image

TeaPartyCrasher 3 years ago from Camp Hill, PA Author

Wayne, I wonder how many more shots the NRA can take at their own feet before they catch on.


TeaPartyCrasher profile image

TeaPartyCrasher 3 years ago from Camp Hill, PA Author

It's not the board, it;s the donors. The manufacturers who see no issue arming Americas Insurgents.


TeaPartyCrasher profile image

TeaPartyCrasher 3 years ago from Camp Hill, PA Author

To folks like Jack, those children, like all killed in mass shootings, are a price of freedom.

Some folks have decided to say "Enough"


lovemychris profile image

lovemychris 3 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

All these NRA types sound like they went to the Glenn Beck on-line scool! Crazy as loons! When do you ever have this scenario?......5 or 6 intruders after you....kids screaming......you need a high-capacity rifle.

Is she 1. for real, or 2. making a pie-in-the-sky fantasy to sell guns?

ding ding ding.....#2

kind of like that Saudi princess back in 03, or 06.... who testified about the babies dying in incubators. All lies. They are shameless in their pursuit of what they want.


TeaPartyCrasher profile image

TeaPartyCrasher 3 years ago from Camp Hill, PA Author

As I've said, they sound more and more like the militia types every day. . .


lovemychris profile image

lovemychris 3 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

Yup. Guns are the saviors we've beeen waiting for. Heil Bullets!


Jack Burton profile image

Jack Burton 3 years ago from The Midwest

Lot's of emoting going on but not any real truth or facts.

But let's take a closer look at the philosophy, "To folks like Jack, those children, like all killed in mass shootings, are a price of freedom."

You can read a much more mature, rational reflection on this concept on my hub, "Is the damage to society from the misuse of guns worth the freedom to have guns? "


lovemychris profile image

lovemychris 3 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

I was just driving home, and hearing about that school bus shooting....apparently, that bus driver was shot because he wouldn't give up the kids to this "freedom-lover". That man was shot trying to save children, and he would have had 100% better chance of not dying had the perpetraitor not had a gun!

Apparently--the perp is a Vietnam Vet, and a gvt hater......probly listens and buys into all the gvt-hate that goes out on the airwaves on a daily basis.

And the angering part is...these nut-jobs will say "the bus driver should have had a gun", rather than seeing the REAL solution: the crazy gvt-hating perpertaitor shouldn't have had a gun!

If anyone has HBO---one of their channels is showing 'They Live'.....

I highly recommend watching it....

The thing keeping people asleep is a television station, which beams signals that blinds people's eyes to reality. Distracted by fame, fortune, fashion.....

Very good movie, and very pre-scient.

People go along for money...and "hey--it's gonna be them, or me".

And---the ones who fight back, are no match for the power of They. They control everything.....not the least the people, who rather than stop what's going on, go along with it!

Good representation of the times we are in fact living in.


TeaPartyCrasher profile image

TeaPartyCrasher 3 years ago from Camp Hill, PA Author

It's not a matter of the freedom. It's the nearly UNLIMITED freedom that the NRA and the manufacturers advocate.


TeaPartyCrasher profile image

TeaPartyCrasher 3 years ago from Camp Hill, PA Author

Love:

You hear about the standoff in Alabama, or are we talking about the same thing.


lovemychris profile image

lovemychris 3 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

Sure...freedom for them: lock-down for everyone else.

Yes, TP...it is the same thing. 5 yr old mentally challenged little boy......I could just scream. And if I hear one more EXCUSE made for guns for everyone...I will!


lovemychris profile image

lovemychris 3 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

HW Bush quit the NRA because of him......if that doesn't tell you something, nothing will.

Another movie that suits the current time is Wizard of Oz. These people are all like the evil witch's little monkeys.

A switch has been turned off in their brain.


lovemychris profile image

lovemychris 3 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

GOD! reading tweets, these are back-to-back....

A 14-year-old was shot in the head at an Atlanta Middle School today http://thkpr.gs/WAXpLV

Assistant DA shot and killed outside North Texas courthouse: http://apne.ws/U3FEGC -CC

****

I'm sorry conspirators.....I don't think this is mkultra triggering. This is America gone wild......trigger-happy culture set free.

Or perhaps it is chickens come home to roost....this happens every day in some places. NOW we care.....


Jack Burton profile image

Jack Burton 3 years ago from The Midwest

tammy sez: Jack Burton, I said I mean no disrespect and I will pray for you

Jack replies: Tam, I would much rather you pray that you gain the wisdom and the decency to educate yourself on the basics of firearms so that you don't beclown yourself every time you try to write about them.


tammybarnette profile image

tammybarnette 3 years ago

Jack, I will pray for you that you learn to be respectful and educate yourself on the astrocities of the modern day...More than 200 people died today because of gun violence, today as of 6pm, before the day has even reached it's end. I realize you have no manners and obviously very little brains, but yet you have an arsenal...See why those of us with manners and brains and empathy for others and knowledge of the violent world inwhich we live have reason to worry.


Jack Burton profile image

Jack Burton 3 years ago from The Midwest

Tammy...

You keep accusing me of needing to "educate" myself, and of having "very little brains."

Yet, ~you~ are the one who keeps posting the most basic mistakes about firearms and refuse to learn the truth about them.

I don't care if you like guns or not. I don't care if you want to ban guns or not. I really don't care if you like me or not.

But what I simply can't understand is when a person willingly remains in total ignorance about a subject and continues to post on it anyway.

Do you actually think that those people who ~do~ know about guns are somehow impressed by that?

BTW.... the highest number even the most ardent pro-gun control person ever uses is 30,000 dead people a year. And the majority of them are suicides who would buy the farm another way.

I've checked the Chicago Trib and the Washington Post just now and they certainly don't list anything about 200 people dying in a single incident from guns so I assume you mean overall. You are the only person I've read in 30 years who claims that 73,000 people die a year from guns.


tammybarnette profile image

tammybarnette 3 years ago

I guess you read me wrong sir, because the evening news opened tonight with that story..I was not quoting annually, I am not talking stats, I am talking dead people, killed by guns, today!

As far as my tone, I am actually a nice and respectable person, but after so many hateful and condescending posts from you I stuped to your level, so for this apologize.

I am admittedly not a gun connoisueur, but I am also not a moron as you wish to believe, I do my homework, I am also a proponent of the 2nd amendment.

We will not agree, this is obvious, but what bothers me is that you could have learned something had you listened to anyone. The majority of people fighting for sensible gun controls are in no way a fringe group who wants to confiscate weapons, and this has been used as a fear mongering tactic by the NRA and the GOP. And, they have been very successful, just look at the sells...

Lastly, I could give a rat's behind if you are impressed, you do not impress me either, you sound like a gun toten red neck loon...So, learn this, if you have a message to share, learn to debate, learn to use facts to represent your opinions. This is one of the major problems causing the divide in this country. Stop talking like a FOX personality, and just share your information. I have had MANY adult conversations with conservatives inwhich we both came out better for in the end. We may have never CHANGED our minds, but we HEARD one anothers views through a mutually respectful conversation.


tammybarnette profile image

tammybarnette 3 years ago

http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/12/...

In 2006, Bushmaster, which was founded in 1973 in Maine, was bought by Cerberus Capital Management, a New York City-based private equity firm that quickly and quietly became a major force in gun manufacturing in the mid- to late-2000s. Cerberus acquired several other big name gunmakers, including Remington and DPMS Firearms, and brought them together under a new banner of Freedom Group, which emerged so quickly on the gun scene that it inspired conspiracy theories about its intentions.

For the first nine months of this year, Freedom Group reported $677.3 million in sales. In its most recent quarterly report, the company said that “we believe the adoption of the modern sporting rifle has led to increased long-term growth in the long gun market while attracting a younger generation of shooters.” As The New Republic pointed out, the company sells more than a million rifles and shotguns a year, and Wal-Mart accounted for about 13 percent of the company’s total sales.

“In many areas, the market is expanding quicker than the industry can increase production,” the company said in its quarterly report. “Accordingly, our company is experiencing strong demand for modern sporting firearms and handguns, as well as above capacity demand levels for more traditional hunting and target shooting platforms.”

On Tuesday, citing the tragedy in Newtown, Cerberus Capital Management announced it planned to sell its stake in Freedom Group.

Jack, I thought you may want to follow the money trail, the article in it's entirety has been linked for you.


lovemychris profile image

lovemychris 3 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

well I'll be.......Cerberus Capital has just aquired Shaw's, one of our big-chain grocery stores here in Mass......DANG! I like that place, and now may have to BOYCOTT.

Oh Tammy, btw: Congrats! You must be doing something right....you are now targeted for banning, if I read the cards right. They'll be coming after you heavy.

Certain hubbers here like to bait, and when the heat gets too much: they always escape the fire.

Then again, this is a hub, not the forums.....maybe the same rules don't apply?

Anyway---I have always admired your responses in the forums, and here.

You have the perfect blend of grace and grit.

Be on your guard.

Their MO is phony chivalry.---as I'm sure you already know ;=)


lovemychris profile image

lovemychris 3 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

It's good that people are arguing that Jesus would be pro-gun. It helps us figure out who has never read the Gospels. http://fb.me/28CIkwdqW


lovemychris profile image

lovemychris 3 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

Romney....can you believe it? A tax-dodger. A job-outsourcer. An America-seconder.

He just shot varmints....with a gun that is. His real instrument of death was--as you say--business.

I still say we have more chance with Dems than with R's. Way more.

If all Americans would just imagine themselves to be women, they would see what I mean!


Jack Burton profile image

Jack Burton 3 years ago from The Midwest

tqamy sez: Lastly, I could give a rat's behind if you are impressed, you do not impress me either, you sound like a gun toten red neck loon..

Jack replies: I really don't care what I sound like to a person who refuses to educate herself on the simple, basic facts of firearms. yet comments continually out of her ignorance. You just don't realize you sound like the kind of person who insists that because motorcycles have five tires they should be more regulated than cars which only have four of them.

One of us knows the truth and facts about firearms and posts that. The other posts from the fantasies in her head. I am content the Dear Readers can tell the difference.

BTW... let's give a cite on the 200 dead people that is better than "I saw it on the TV."


tammybarnette profile image

tammybarnette 3 years ago

LMC, Thank you much, my mother always believed I should be a lawyer,lol, but I would have made a poor one because I am only able to argue/debate when I know I am representing and honoring the truth.

Jack if your delusions keep you warm and fuzzy there is not much more to say to you sir. If you want to believe that to not be a collector/connoisueur is to be uninformed I just don't know how to explain that you are not understanding reality. The NRA makes such quotes as that too limit assault sells will have no impact because criminals will still get them..*scratching head*...wouldn't this logic dictate that all laws are irrelevant...wouldn't it dictate that there are no needs for military operations because the terrorists will just keep coming, wouldn't that suggest that guarding our borders is senseless because they will still infiltrate our country...

As far as linking you to my local news I will have to find a link, I am guessing it is archived because I have only been able to find today's items thus far, so I will come back when I can link that for you:)


TeaPartyCrasher profile image

TeaPartyCrasher 3 years ago from Camp Hill, PA Author

Tammy:

I did a hub called "Full of Holes" that goes after the "because there's crime, laws are irrelevant" and other insurrectionist arguments.


tammybarnette profile image

tammybarnette 3 years ago

TPC, I will check that out, Thanks :)


Jack Burton profile image

Jack Burton 3 years ago from The Midwest

Tamy sez: Jack if your delusions keep you warm and fuzzy there is not much more to say to you sir.

Jack replies: which one of us keeps posting delusional material about “military grade assault rifles being sold in the stores” eh? :-)

Tammy sez: If you want to believe that to not be a collector/connoisueur is to be uninformed I just don't know how to explain that you are not understanding reality.

Jack replies: since I never said that I believe that I guess we can see which of the two of us is delusional. I know many non-collectors and non-connoisseurs of firearms who are highly knowledgeable about guns, gunowners and gun collecting.

I just said that YOU are ignorant and not willing to educate yourself. Do you dispute that this is an accurate description of yourself?

Tammy sez: The NRA makes such quotes as that too limit assault sells will have no impact because criminals will still get them..*scratching head*...wouldn't this logic dictate that all laws are irrelevant...wouldn't it dictate that there are no needs for military operations because the terrorists will just keep coming, wouldn't that suggest that guarding our borders is senseless because they will still infiltrate our country...

Jack replies: Tammy, you have a very naïve understanding of the ways that laws work and their purpose. But, the good news is lots of people have the same problem so you’re not alone.

Do you really believe in your heart that laws stop bad people from doing bad things? Do you think a sign that says “no guns allowed in the store” will ever keep a bad man from carrying a gun into that store and shooting people. Is he going to say “Oh noes… I can’t go in there, I’ll be breaking the law”?

Laws exist not to stop people from doing bad things but to allow society to set a marker that says, “if you do this bad thing we will punish you.”

If you do a terrorist activity we will punish you. If you cross the border illegally we will punish you. If you run a stop sign we will punish you. The law lays out just what the punishment is for these infractions.

For most normal people that a sufficient reason not to do something that is against the law. But it doesn’t “stop” people.

If the mere presence of the law “stopped” people then we would have no terrorists, no illegal aliens and no traffic offenders. No murderers, no rapists and no muggers. No jaywalkers, no tax dodgers and no shoplifters.

You really haven’t thought this through, have you. You have not set down and applied the least little bit of reason to the subject. But you really can emote about it, can’t you.


TeaPartyCrasher profile image

TeaPartyCrasher 3 years ago from Camp Hill, PA Author

You're welcome.


TeaPartyCrasher profile image

TeaPartyCrasher 3 years ago from Camp Hill, PA Author

A "Price of Freedom" is all that is Wayne.


tammybarnette profile image

tammybarnette 3 years ago

Jack, You make me giggle. Your lack of knowledge and understanding of not only law but just basic conversation. But I will give you this, your narcissistic delusions of your knowledge keeps you coming back for more, which is nice for TPC to have all of this activity on his hub.

I own a smith and wesson pistol for self defense, my step son is an avid hunter, I grew up in a home with rifles on the den wall...I live in God's country, lots of hunting and fishing, plenty of shooting ranges as well.

You say laws are in place because "we will punish you" LMAO...How will we punish Adam Lanza or any of the other nut jobs who go on killing sprees and the kill themselves. No, the only people punished are the loved ones left behind, with Christmas presents under the tree for children who are never coming home.

Jack, you and those who think like you are every bit as responsible for those deaths as is the NRA and Adam Lanza. If this were the wild west your line of thought may be appropriate, however in civilized societies your line of thought is not only terribly out-dated, but highly dangerous.

If you believe yourself to be an expert on guns and violence, please use your next post to "school" us all and stop waisting your time on an endless escapade of ignorance, I am beginning to feel embarrased for you....


lovemychris profile image

lovemychris 3 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

Did you see the NRA's enemies list?

http://nraila.org/Issues/FactSheets/Read.aspx?ID=1...

here's a response:

@LOLGOP

9/10 Americans support universal background check. NRA Enemies List should be 282,522,636 names long

----;-)


lovemychris profile image

lovemychris 3 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

Funny...they call them "anti-gun"......

Is that a little immature, to you? I mean.....who is saying "No Guns"...?

No One.

I swear, they are babies, just like the TP'ers.

I guess we'll have to call ourselves "anti-mass-murder weapons".

Maybe they'll get it?


tammybarnette profile image

tammybarnette 3 years ago

LMC, HAHAHA! I lOVE THAT! I say we march up on the hill and instead of picketing signs we all carry AR15's...think that may wake and shake'em up:)


lovemychris profile image

lovemychris 3 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

Well, from what I'm reading, and hearing on the "news"...the only thing they'll get passed is the universal background check. And even then, they'll probly throw a fit about Obama and the commies taking their rights away.

sheeesh. The right to own a semi-automatic that kills 30 people in 27 seconds.....

Bury children every day....

This is what the founding dads intended?? I doubt it very much.


Jack Burton profile image

Jack Burton 3 years ago from The Midwest

Tammy sez: Jack, You make me giggle. Your lack of knowledge and understanding

Jack replies: Errr… remind me… which one of use keeps thinking wrongly that the AR sold down at Walmart is a “military war weapon”?

Tammy sez: But I will give you this, your narcissistic delusions of your knowledge

Jack replies: Yet, you’ve never actually refuted a single thing I’ve said, eh.

Tammy sez: I own a smith and wesson pistol for self defense, my step son is an avid hunter, I grew up in a home with rifles on the den wall...I live in God's country, lots of hunting and fishing, plenty of shooting ranges as well.

Jack replies: And all race bigots state they have at least “one black friend.” Big deal.

Tammy sez: You say laws are in place because "we will punish you" LMAO...How will we punish Adam Lanza or any of the other nut jobs who go on killing sprees and the kill themselves.

Jack replies: Is that really the best you can do? We punish them the same exact way we punish the guy who robs a bank and then commits suicide.

Tammy replies: Jack, you and those who think like you are every bit as responsible for those deaths as is the NRA and Adam Lanza.

Jack replies; There ya go, Dear Readers. I knew the truth of her beliefs would eventually come out with enough poking. Some people take a while to express their true thoughts.

Tammy sez: If this were the wild west your line of thought may be appropriate, however in civilized societies your line of thought is not only terribly out-dated, but highly dangerous.

Jack replies: ~This~ from a person who doesn’t even know what guns are but she sure knows what is “dangerous” and “civilized.”

Tammy sez: If you believe yourself to be an expert on guns and violence, please use your next post to "school" us

Jack replies: I never claimed to be an “expert.” I just claimed to know more than you.

Tammy sez: all and stop waisting your time on an endless escapade of ignorance,

Jack replies: Remind me, which one of us thinks “military grade rifles” are sold at Walmart?

Tammy sez: I am beginning to feel embarrased for you....

Jack replies: You really don’t know what this is about, do you?


Jack Burton profile image

Jack Burton 3 years ago from The Midwest

Wayne sez: Ah, Ya'll ain't counting correctly!!!! Your saying, the DEAD,DEAD,DEAD

Jack replies: I am sorry. When Tammy posted "killed" I assumed she meant "dead." I am glad you corrected me.


TeaPartyCrasher profile image

TeaPartyCrasher 3 years ago from Camp Hill, PA Author

That is a list that, much like Nixon's 'Enemies List', a group should be proud to be on. . .


TeaPartyCrasher profile image

TeaPartyCrasher 3 years ago from Camp Hill, PA Author

I prefer the term "Gun safety" or "Gun sanity".


TeaPartyCrasher profile image

TeaPartyCrasher 3 years ago from Camp Hill, PA Author

It would be a start.

Remember that the struggle for civil and women's rights were both long slogs.


tammybarnette profile image

tammybarnette 3 years ago

Jack...Still waiting for that lesson...Please enlighten us sir with your wealth of wisdom...


Jack Burton profile image

Jack Burton 3 years ago from The Midwest

Is that ~really~ the best you can do, Tammy?


tammybarnette profile image

tammybarnette 3 years ago

Is that really all you have Jack, please...the floor is yours, use it


TeaPartyCrasher profile image

TeaPartyCrasher 3 years ago from Camp Hill, PA Author

All it's going to be is the NRA line. . .


Jack Burton profile image

Jack Burton 3 years ago from The Midwest

Tammy... you really want to learn something?

Then repeat after me... there are NO "military assault weapons" being sold at Walmart...

there are NO "military assault weapons" being sold at Walmart...

there are NO "military assault weapons" being sold at Walmart...

there are NO "military assault weapons" being sold at Walmart...

If you do it enough times you might actually begin to believe in it.


TeaPartyCrasher profile image

TeaPartyCrasher 3 years ago from Camp Hill, PA Author

Not anymore. But. . . .

(Possible repost--but folks may need a reminder)

http://www.thenation.com/article/171808/how-walmar...


lovemychris profile image

lovemychris 3 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

And yet they ban Cheryl Crow.....this Sam Walmart must be one of "Them". Or else they have his b*lls.

The kind that won't allow swearing, must tell you what to do, how to do it, and with who.

And guns are jes fine.

All taxes can be used for anything they want. Everyone else just shut up.

They know best. And They have all the money, which They made ripping off YOU!

You--the collective you....who think there is no problem with Walmart.

Guns, God, Money.


lovemychris profile image

lovemychris 3 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

These NRA types are missing the whole point.

It's not to get everybody a gun to stop someone with a mass-murdering instrument.

It's to get rid of the mass-murdering instrument.


Jack Burton profile image

Jack Burton 3 years ago from The Midwest

Lmc sez Funny...they call them "anti-gun"......

Is that a little immature, to you? I mean.....who is saying "No Guns"...?

No One.

And later...lmc sez: These NRA types are missing the whole point.

It's not to get everybody a gun to stop someone with a mass-murdering instrument.

It's to get rid of the mass-murdering instrument.

Jack replies: Since 98 percent of all guns made have the capability of killing more than one person when fired multiple times I guess ol' lmc is going to have to do the hypocrite "walk back" to explain the way he contradicts himself within one hub. I think I am going to rename him "No One."


Jack Burton profile image

Jack Burton 3 years ago from The Midwest

tpc sez: Not anymore. But.

Jack repleis: Never was. But thanks for the report in from fantasy land.

BTW... the Walmart down the street from me has several ARs in stock right now. I expect them to last about five minutes on the shelf.


lovemychris profile image

lovemychris 3 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

Oh really? A normal gun can kill 30 people in 27 seconds?

DO TELL. This is the "right" you are forcing down our throats, and it is no right whatsoever.

News Flash: You do not have the right to kill 30 people in 27 seconds. Get over it.

We have the right, under the second amendment, to make YOU be well-regulated!

Sorry gunners, your rights do not super-cede the rest of ours.


lovemychris profile image

lovemychris 3 years ago from Cape Cod, USA


tammybarnette profile image

tammybarnette 3 years ago

Selections of rifles, shotguns and ammunition previously sold at Walmart were back as the retailer tried once again to target customers in more rural parts of the country. Today, guns are sold at between 1,700 and 1,800 of the 4,000 outlets across the U.S., says Walmart spokesperson Kory Lundberg. At about a third of its stores, the offerings include “modern sporting rifles,” a term that refers to the type of semiautomatic rifle used in the shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School in December.

Read more: http://business.time.com/2013/01/11/walmarts-on-ag...


TeaPartyCrasher profile image

TeaPartyCrasher 3 years ago from Camp Hill, PA Author

Ever see my hub "Silver and Lead"


ImKarn23 profile image

ImKarn23 3 years ago

they behave like children, Chris - because - that's ALL they've got! They certainly don't have truth on their side..

Nor compassion...

Nor common sense...

Nor facts...

ALL they CAN do is change the subject, belittle, throw up distractions, name call, pout, stomp their feet - OR SHOOT YOU DEAD!

The expected smoke and mirrors from the deeply indoctrinated..

I would NEVER have this conversation with mr conrad face to face..

i'm far from a coward, but - i ain't stupid neither..

an angry extremist is a dangerous extremist...

funny how they never back down - everyone can tell him to find a new perspective - with facts and figures to back it - in all EARNESTNESS trying to make them see that PEOPLE ARE DYING - and that the ZILLIONS OF GUNS already on the streets aren't helping.

Clearly, a good guy with a gun doesn't do shit, mr conrad - BUT - they'll try to hedge that one by saying - it's all the gang bangers with guns..

are YOU a gang banger mr conrad? you certainly don't strike me as a good guy..

the deeply indoctrinated are EXCELLENT at NOT recognizing truth and NEVER mentioning the victims..

i wonder, mr conrad - exactly how many more guns does your ilk feel are necessary before the VAST MAJORITY of the American public can feels safe? Exactly? Hmmmmm...?

I mean - aside from the 300 MILLION already out there, of course..

(what a waste of time and energy, people...he can't wait to start defending HIS DISTORTED VERSION of his rights...)

so weak and so easily brainwashed - in other words - just another sheeple..

Baaaaaaaaaaa....

PS..i am NOT anti-gun....LOL...(just more juvenile crap meant only to shift focus...)


Jack Burton profile image

Jack Burton 3 years ago from The Midwest

Lmc sez: Oh really? A normal gun can kill 30 people in 27 seconds?

Jack replies: See, Dear Readers…. This is a further example of lmc living in fantasyland. He really doesn’t know that a standard Glock handgun which has sold in the tens of millions to ordinary citizens across the country for the past 40 years can easily fire 50 rounds in less than 27 seconds.

Yet… he feels compelled to comment about it anyway. He is totally ignorant about the subject of firearms, but he thinks that he is totally qualified on the subject and we should pay attention to his ideas and “common sense.”

Lmc sez: DO TELL. This is the "right" you are forcing down our throats, and it is no right whatsoever.

Jack replies: Hmmmm… I don’t recall anyone “forcing” lmc to buy a Glock or any other firearm. Perhaps I missed that part of the conversation.

Lmc sez: News Flash: You do not have the right to kill 30 people in 27 seconds. Get over it.

Jack replies: Really? I thought we all had the right to kill as many people as we wanted, when we wanted and where we wanted. I’ll have to go back and check the law books on that one. Perhaps I was under the mistaken impression.

BTW… maybe lmc can explain to everyone why he thinks cops “have the right to kill 30 people in 27 seconds” because almost all of them carry Glocks or their equal.

Lmc sez: We have the right, under the second amendment, to make YOU be well-regulated!

Jack replies: When you understand the passage in the context of the 17th century when it was written then get back to us.

Lmc sez: Sorry gunners, your rights do not super-cede the rest of ours.

Jack replies: lmc can’t actually explain how my owning any gun supercedes any “rights” of his, but it makes him ffffeeeelllll ggggoooddd to post it.


lovemychris profile image

lovemychris 3 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

Get rid of Glocks too.

Anyone who needs more than one shot doesn't deserve a weapon. Period.

Jack Burton...she's quite the comedian eh?

"Survey Says!"....... no more guns....ding ding ding


Jack Burton profile image

Jack Burton 3 years ago from The Midwest

lmc sez: Funny...they call them "anti-gun"......

Is that a little immature, to you? I mean.....who is saying "No Guns"...?

No One.

Lmc sez a few posts later: Get rid of Glocks too.

Jack replies: Thank you for that post from fantasy land where contradictions don't exist.


lovemychris profile image

lovemychris 3 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

Jack sez: I thought we all had the right to kill as many people as we wanted, when we wanted and where we wanted. I’ll have to go back and check the law books on that one. Perhaps I was under the mistaken impression.

lmc sez: How you feel about abortion?

Jack sez: I don’t recall anyone “forcing” lmc to buy a Glock or any other firearm.

lmc sez: Who's forcing anyone to have an abortion?

Jack 's kind sez: "it's not the same issue"

lmc sez: You are right. Guns kill live human beings.


Jack Burton profile image

Jack Burton 3 years ago from The Midwest

Yes, I know, because my 17 year old neighbor girl just aborted the donkey growing in her uterus. Or perhaps it was a chicken. It certainly wasn't a "human being" eh.

BTW... I quote people accurately and just what they say. Lmc has to make up fantasy land quotes in order to get people to say just what he wants. them to say. I think that is just wonderful. What more can better show his bankruptcy in ideas.


lovemychris profile image

lovemychris 3 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

NRA types don't have a clue what the issue is.

Get rid of mass-murdering weapons. Get rid of easy access to guns. Get rid of excuses and dodging for all the gun deaths in the USA.

Or, as a new bumper sticker says: Death is not a family value.


TeaPartyCrasher profile image

TeaPartyCrasher 3 years ago from Camp Hill, PA Author

Then the companies that back the NRA would lose their business. . .


lovemychris profile image

lovemychris 3 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

Oh don't be silly...Jesus said to own a gun, nothing to do with business.

And, if you get rich from guns, Jesus said to hoard your money.... preferably in a Swiss bank, so you can avoid paying taxes to the country whose citizens die everyday so your money can grow.

It's so simple!

And everday, we thank our founding fathers for writing into the Constitution, that killing 30 people in 27 seconds is our right as a citizen.


lovemychris profile image

lovemychris 3 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

If I have free speech as written in the Constitution...why am I banned from the forums? Isn't HP taking away my 1st amendment rights?

Why do we allow this?

And what about those people who report me...aren't they haters of the Constitution?

Can't have it all ways. We all give, or we all take. Which is it?


lovemychris profile image

lovemychris 3 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

Famous Navy SEAL sniper Chris Kyle is shot and killed, with another man, in Texas at... a gun range. http://bit.ly/XzvHNF


lovemychris profile image

lovemychris 3 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

These that have turned the world upside down are come hither also—Acts 17:7


lovemychris profile image

lovemychris 3 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

We are all suffering the damage from them. And I just realized how much we have put up with for so long.

So much verbal abuse. Such demonic rantings.

I don't think they are stupid. They just don't care one iota about any one but themselves.

Think about it: if background checks, fazing out assault rifles, and no more than 10 bullets in a magazine are too much to ask of them.......

That is truly pathetic.


lovemychris profile image

lovemychris 3 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

@TheDailyEdge

Background checks are an outrageous assault on personal freedom, say politicians who want to give you an unnecessary transvaginal ultrasound


TeaPartyCrasher profile image

TeaPartyCrasher 3 years ago from Camp Hill, PA Author

You expect those who accept the insurrectionist ideas of the NRA, etc to understand any of that!


lovemychris profile image

lovemychris 3 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

Yes---they know darn good and well......stupid they are not: stealth they are. They have been "gunning" for women since 1973.

And always with the guns. It's phallus worship, other wise, they would not be suppressing women, IMO.

What do they care if someone they don't know aborts a fetus? I mean---really?

They are jealous that females give birth.....carry the species. And the females around them are controlled. That is my opinion.


lovemychris profile image

lovemychris 3 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

well, I take that back about stupid....

"LaPierre thinks background checks will lead to government surveillance of citizens."

---

“I think what they’ll do is turn this universal check on the law-abiding into a universal registry of law-abiding people. And law-abiding people don’t want that. My God, that’s the last thing they want,” LaPierre said on “Fox News Sunday.”

**********

errrrm.....this happened in 2001,02,03,04,05,06.......guess who else does it? Google, Facebook....all those nice businesses.....

You wanted it...you got it. (total Republican control of all 3 branches)

Law abiding people don't want assault rifles in their supermarkets, Jerk.


Jack Burton profile image

Jack Burton 3 years ago from The Midwest

lmc sez: If I have free speech as written in the Constitution...why am I banned from the forums? Isn't HP taking away my 1st amendment rights?

Jack replies: As with many people who are confused about the 2nd Amendment, lmc is also confused about the 1st Amendment.

There is no "right" that a private party must provide anyone with a platform to speak or express themselves.

The fact that lmc thinks there is is just another facet of his living in fantasyland in his head.


lovemychris profile image

lovemychris 3 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

Yes there is. It's callled the freedom of speech. I can make it absolute just like gunners make the 2nd absolute.

In fact: I have the right to say what I want, when I want, and wherever I want.....no regard for anyone else. Isn't that what you are demanding with your guns?

uh, yeah--it is.

But of course, we already know...what THEY want is sacrosanct. Freedom for THEM to do anything. Everyone else subject to THEIR whim.

Doesn't work that way.

We have limits to speech, and limits to weapons.

Or else we'd have a free-for-all.

Time for all the little gunner babies to grow up.

"There there now hunny......it's not the end of the world if you can't shoot 1o0 times automatic."

"But ma, it gives me such power."

......."Hunny--that power is reserved for God."

Or, as my reading pal visible says: "You want to lead on earth instead of follow heaven"

Gunners--you are not God. Don't tell me when I can utilize my body, and don't tell me I must accept your murder-sprees.---Guns kill. Stop pretending otherwise.

Abortions happen in nature....guns are man-made.


lovemychris profile image

lovemychris 3 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

just an example of how far they have led us from decency......

Was watching a re-run of Meet the Press, David Brooks says, "they were attacking his character, his honesty, his integrity...he should have fought back, that's the problem."...

NO--the problem IS they were attacking his character, his honesty, his integrity!!

These goons have turned the atmosphere from decent people with honest debates into mud-slingers seeing who can sling the best mud. Juvenile! At the highest level!

Grow the *&^% up.


lovemychris profile image

lovemychris 3 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

New White Order.


lovemychris profile image

lovemychris 3 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

'Alabama Man Holding 5-Year-Old Boy Hostage ‘Listened to a Lot of Conservative Talk Radio’

http://www.politicususa.com/alabama-man-holding-5-...

No one ever wants to admit it, but it's true....just as Palin and Beck and O'Reilly all hold blame. They KNOW what they are doing....and they do it anyway.IMO

They act like know-it-alls while they propagate lies and foment hatred.

Evil-on-a-stick. And given the domain of the airwaves, because they buy it up.

Muslims are not the enemy.....it is within!

"conservative talk radio down here in Knoxville is all over the bandwidth. You can hardly get away from a Fox news radio station that runs all of the popular sickness that these people put out. Brochures are found everywhere’s documenting the latest quote from Charles Krauthammer. This is a total onslaught of garbage"

It's the same here, and I'm in Massachussettes!


tammybarnette profile image

tammybarnette 3 years ago

LMC, My news opened yesterday evening with a story of a man killing his wife, two children, and then himself. I live a couple hours outside of Knoxville, I can attest to the propaganda...


lovemychris profile image

lovemychris 3 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

Well, I know people say "it was always there". etc etc. But for me, it began with Rush Limbaugh, after Clinton was elected. I was truly shocked at the things he said, and the manner in which he said them.

Utter hatred, disrespect and contempt. Then came the accusations. Murder, for one.

But........oddly--he was a huge cheerleader of Bushco...had Cheney on his show all the time.....that is what let me know he is a gd phony and shill for the fascists.

They are dangerous.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detail...


lovemychris profile image

lovemychris 3 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

Fox's ratings have dropped.....they have also hired Dennis Kucinich.....god knows why. He's as pro-regulation as you can get.

May be they are reading the writing on the wall......they were big since 2000. But now: we see the results from their type of governing.....and we no likey.

They are on a sinking ship.


lovemychris profile image

lovemychris 3 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

well, now--this is interesting...This is how I feel too.

"There is a false revolution in America about to be carried out by TPTB

This has a strong element of racism to it

Beware of anybody who speaks of the founding fathers or the constitution, or right to bare arms etc. They are the other side of the elites controlled conflict."

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=23...

...should be a good read.


lovemychris profile image

lovemychris 3 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

‏@AriBerman

"blacks and Hispanics waited nearly twice as long in line to vote on average than whites" http://nyti.ms/WqIXGK

So obvious it's laughable. Except it isn't funny.

Some clown--yes, white and Republican--made remarks about Trayvon Martin...it's on Huffpo. I am sick of hearing it.....know it all. Heard it all before.

In fact, when I see a R post: I scroll down without reading. There is nothing they can say that we don't already know.

They've ruled the roost for so long, they actually think it's a birth-right or something.

Male/White/Their God/Submissive women.

...and their sundry supporters, who are dwindling as we speak.

Just heed this: Don't think you can "Change the message", when the policies are all the same!

Pigstick on a Lip.


lovemychris profile image

lovemychris 3 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

Chung Kim, Texas man, fatally shoots couple in argument over dog feces http://cbsn.ws/WZ4Zjn


lovemychris profile image

lovemychris 3 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

Tell me about it...they all cry about war and drones and Obama this, Obama that......

Meanwhile, they completely missed Bush atrocities,

don't care 2 whits that we allow military weapons in the hands of maniacs, and declare a fertilized egg to be a full human being.

I am fully opposed to them as if we are enemies....and we are.

My freedom is endangered by them, as is my autonomy as a human being.

They would give our country over to the maniacs, and make me a prisoner of their religious state.

This is war. And I have no weapons. Simply my faith in Justice--and that Right will win out over Might.


Jack Burton profile image

Jack Burton 3 years ago from The Midwest

Wayne sez: A father of a boy killed in Sandy Hook was attending a Conn. state Govt. hearing on gun violence yesterday while speaking to the committe and holding a picture of his dead son, People HECKLED him! Listen to the video that is out on that meeting! The HECKLERS were sent to this meeting by the NRA!

Jack replies: Is there any doubt left that wayne and his buddies live in fantasy land? Let us find out the truth of this supposed "heckling" and the purposeful misleading editing that NBC did.

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/msnbc-airs-s...


lovemychris profile image

lovemychris 3 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

Listen mate...we don't even know if some of those people are real fathers, and if they even had kids.

That whole thing was a false flag for something.

Yoichi Shimatsu thinks it was done because the gvr double-crossed the mob.

One of the many mobs that abound....one of them being the extreme right Judeo-X-Tians who seek world domination.

....that's the one you favor, right Jack?


lovemychris profile image

lovemychris 3 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

Poor little Teddy Nugent cries, "Just leave us alone!"...as he sticks his gvt down my pants.


Jack Burton profile image

Jack Burton 3 years ago from The Midwest

Or...wayne... the Dear Readers can just watch the unedited video that is in my link and decide for themselves, eh.

But I do appreciated your further demonstration that those who hate the 2nd amendment also fundamentally hate the 1st amendment also.


TeaPartyCrasher profile image

TeaPartyCrasher 3 years ago from Camp Hill, PA Author

It seems that many those who support the 2nd have trouble with parts the 1st as well. As well as the 4th,5th, and 6th.

But I don't see the Country through a scope like the insurrectionists do!


TeaPartyCrasher profile image

TeaPartyCrasher 3 years ago from Camp Hill, PA Author

When you see the world through a scope, what do you expect.

I just hope Jack has read "Why Mess With the U.S" so he can see what he and his insurrectionists are up against. . .


Jack Burton profile image

Jack Burton 3 years ago from The Midwest

tpc sez: It seems that many those who support the 2nd have trouble with parts the 1st as well. As well as the 4th,5th, and 6th.

Jack replies: yes... which is exactly why I am calling for all of wayne's posts to be removed and those who believe as he does be labeled terrorists.

Oh... wait... that was WAYNE the gun-grabber who said those things. And this is the base from which all the things that wayne, tpc, and the others should be measured when they make their fantasy world remarks.


lovemychris profile image

lovemychris 3 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

Kind of like the base that says those who support Obama hate America?

Hear that all the time.

Used to be those who didn't support Bush hate America.....funny how rights and such move with the ideology, huh?

....Like since the 14th amendment gives women the right to decide for their own bodies....now the oppressors are giving those same rights to a fertilized egg. OVER and ABOVE those of the woman!!

Talk about fantasy...and sick really. I imagine the time a woman will have to die in labor, for a child she never wanted to carry in the 1st place....

Oh yeah: been there, done that. Praise the Lord, and the 2nd amendment.....servitude and weapons.


lovemychris profile image

lovemychris 3 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

So--while they cry because we want and end to 30-100 round magazines, and we want 100% backgroundchecks--here is what they are up to: real time!

"Mr. Justice Stewart referred to the Fourteen Amendment when he issued a concurring statement in Roe v. Wade. He wrote, in part:

"Clearly, therefore, the Court today is correct in holding that the right asserted by Jane Roe is embraced within the personal liberty protected by the Due Process Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment. It is evident that the Texas abortion statute infringes that right directly. Indeed, it is difficult to imagine a more complete abridgment of a constitutional freedom than that worked by the inflexible criminal statute now in force in Texas."


lovemychris profile image

lovemychris 3 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

‏@DCdebbie

Breaking: Ex-cop has killed one officer, is suspect in slaying of two people. Manhunt under way.

********

I thought Nugent said we should leave all the law-abiding gunners alone....how much more law-abiding are you supposed to get?


Jack Burton profile image

Jack Burton 3 years ago from The Midwest

lmc just conclusively proved that cops shouldn't carry guns.


lovemychris profile image

lovemychris 3 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

lmc just proved that guns can't be trusted in the hands of anyone!

Even a police officer--who is trained and required to use one lets the power get to his head.

Makes it easy to kill, should the desire arise.


lovemychris profile image

lovemychris 3 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

Well.....he had a reason: @Occupythemob

Fired LAPD Officer Shoots 3 Fellow Cops Killing One- Releases Manifesto Exposing Corruption http://wp.me/pckBk-2rM


Jack Burton profile image

Jack Burton 3 years ago from The Midwest

Then, lmc, I expect you to call for the disarming of cops, the FBI, the Secret Service and the Army.


lovemychris profile image

lovemychris 3 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

wellllll.....

THIS MORNING: LAPD reportedly shot two women delivering newspapers by mistake http://thkpr.gs/WRuSSq

Seems everybody has gunomania these days.

We are not safe from guns!! shhhhhh. It's the secret you're not supposed to talk about.


lovemychris profile image

lovemychris 3 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

Chris Dorner: "The enemy combatants in LA are not the citizens and suspects, it’s the police officers." http://fb.me/1oa91ZtmK

"LAPD like @OPD hyper-militarized LE orgs w/ poor training, leadership, command & control! LEO's Shooting Civilians n "Simular Vehicle"

**********

Police are militarized...we are the enemy. I've seen it myself. Pulled over for headlight, police officer says: "Stay in the vehicle for my safety".....HIS safety? I thought he worked for me? And what danger am I? Made me feel like I was a bug in a spotlight. I was already guilty. Of what? Being an American, that's what.

Cause we LUV military and guns and macho-man hero's.

Little punk forgets I'm a mom and gramma.......not a criminal.


lovemychris profile image

lovemychris 3 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

It just occurred to me.....we are having this BIG hearing about drones killing Americans...gubmint killing Americans--targeted/enemies--.....but we shrug off the fact that Americans kill each other every day with their guns!


TeaPartyCrasher profile image

TeaPartyCrasher 3 years ago from Camp Hill, PA Author

You've seen the NRA shoot themselves in the foot already in front of Congress? You want to see more of that.

Actually, if it helps show the NRA as out of sync. . . .


TeaPartyCrasher profile image

TeaPartyCrasher 3 years ago from Camp Hill, PA Author

Seems that kind of vigilantee society is what the NRA, etc might want.


lovemychris profile image

lovemychris 3 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

Oh, they do...when a Republican is prez. History has shown that.

National

Republican

Associates


lovemychris profile image

lovemychris 3 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

"That's ridiculous. Most members of the NRA hated Clinton, and hate Obama."

couldn't state it more than that....I mean, there WAS another prez in between them, wasn't there?

No hate for him from the NRA? you don't say....


lovemychris profile image

lovemychris 3 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

Yeah, it's almost laughable.

All these people suddenly finding impeachable offenses, suddenly concerned with the deficit, suddenly thinking it "patriotic" to insult and defame the president.

Meh....that's why they have 0 credibilty, and the NRA gets away with murder. Literally.

It's all politics, nothing more.


lovemychris profile image

lovemychris 3 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

AFA's Buster Wilson wonders if Obama is readying the military to fire on gun-owners & conservatives http://bit.ly/XtkHQ2

Meanwhile: Real time....gunners leave comments such as these:

"I don’t give a f**k if you get shot, you gutless fascist c*nt. You cannot have my weapons."

some of them are so revved up--I don't have a doubt they will shoot Obama supporters.

And it's far from the truth, what they are saying.

It's deliberate man-slaughter, just like "Tiller the baby-killer", and all of Beck and Palin's rhetoric. And they get away with it.

"We seek chaos".....Aleister Crowley AND Rush Limbaugh used that.

and I don't care who thinks I'm crazy, or "hating" for saying so.

Look at what is right in front of you.


TeaPartyCrasher profile image

TeaPartyCrasher 3 years ago from Camp Hill, PA Author

LMC:

Is it any wonder the Coalition To Stop Gun Violence calls many gun advocates "Insurrectionists". . .


Jack Burton profile image

Jack Burton 3 years ago from The Midwest

Thank you, Wayne. Because you're the "face of gun control" here on hubpages you are singlehandedly doing more to bring people to our side of pro-freedom than any post I could possibly make.

Again, thank you


lovemychris profile image

lovemychris 3 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

The guy getting acolades for his knowledge, and a board member of the NRA:

pic.twitter.com/iNG4it4P


TeaPartyCrasher profile image

TeaPartyCrasher 3 years ago from Camp Hill, PA Author

Anyone notice how many of the 'Insurgents' can't see to understand the needs of society to be safe may overcome THEIR desire to want to arm themselves for an insurrection?

That may bear exploring as it may say a lot about the right-wing mentality. . .


Mark 3 years ago

Wayne, what's on Ouzi?


lovemychris profile image

lovemychris 3 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

I've seen enough of the right-wing mentality to last a life-time. It runs rampant here. Hate. Self-righteousness. Intolerance. And the laughing at people. Laughing at their ability to shut you down: cause they can, and do. Acting like Obama and anyone who supports him is a baffoon---and a big-butt non citizen baffoon.

Acting like killing with guns is somehow sacrosanct, instead of cold-blooded murder.Which they have the right to....but don't you dare touch a fetus......in your own body!

Laughing at Obama, making fun of his wife....acting like RW's own the whole country because they are so favored, I geuss.

They must think they are better than the rest---I know they demanded fealty to Bushbo, or you were blasted. I know they blame Obama for all the bs Bush did, and laid in his lap.

And I know they think they have a devine right to kill should the need arise....but apprently no one else does.

Not a woman, not Obama, not anyone but them.

If its civil war they want: they will get it.

I will never adhere to their warped and twisted mentality. There is no middle ground when you are dealing with them: they want all or nothing: Agree that Obama is a bum, and they'll talk to you. Otherwise, stfu. And if you don't---they will take away your ability to speak.

....and perhaps even live. They have those guns for a reason.

they keep screaming about the gubmint....I'm more afraid of them.

and of course, when Republicans in charge...the gubmint's just fine.

Fight for America is what this is. I am on the side against them. Because they have not now, nor ever been for me.


lovemychris profile image

lovemychris 3 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

TheNewDeal:

"4 Gun Deaths in Benghazi & GOP are Holding Hearings, Calling for Impeachment. 20 Dead Children in Newtown & They Do Nothing."


lovemychris profile image

lovemychris 3 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

Just got our power back on, out since friday at 1 am.

Thank you FEMA, MEMA, town gvt, state gvt, police, fire, emergency crews, Nstar, Comcast, tree company's, and all the electric co's from other states who sent trucks and equipment here to help!

Gvt and business working together, to HELP people!

THIS is America.

If it was up to Teabaglicans, only those who paid cash would have power and tv/internet back....Even though we all pay for these service every single day.

And Obama wants to send internet out to rural areas, and the Baglicans are resisting that.

On Tuesday, I will watch the POTUS do the SOTU, then turn the tv off. I have no desire to see what the insane asylum has to say......

Lock them all up in Gitmo as far as I'm concerned. We would all be better off.


lovemychris profile image

lovemychris 3 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

‏@JesseLaGreca

Armed Pro-Gun Protestes Occupy Oregon State Capital via @thinkprogress imagine the sh*t storm if they were liberals http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2013/02/11/156770...

********

We know what happens to Occupy: they get maced, and beaten with clubs.


lovemychris profile image

lovemychris 3 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

"Ted Nugent says he won't bring a gun to the State of the Union, despite having threatened the President's life before"

How sweet of him. Maybe he should get a medal?


lovemychris profile image

lovemychris 3 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

"As President Barack Obama prepares to announce his plans to fight gun violence, Representative Steve Stockman (R-TX) is warning that he will move to impeach the president if Obama issues executive orders that regulate guns. Stockman’s concern may be one of self-interest, however; due to his checkered past and criminal record, stricter gun laws could impact Stockman’s own ability to purchase a firearm."

*******

You don't say?

To Gitmo--you crook!


lovemychris profile image

lovemychris 3 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

@bobcesca_go

Bush's drone attacks had a civilian casualty rate of 32%. Obama's drone civilian casualty rate is 6%. Same? http://counterterrorism.newamerica.net/drones/obse...

***********

I never heard ONE WORD about drones during Bushco. Nor complaints when they were trying to implement Unitary Executive Theory. Not a peep from those who now want to impeach Obama. That's why they are full of sh*t, and always will be.


lovemychris profile image

lovemychris 3 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

Literature distributed at NRA Convention calls for "a combo Civil/Re-Revolutionary War" http://thkpr.gs/Yo5P6x

*****

Yup, you are right about the insurrection.

They all belong in Gitmo, not sitting at the sotu.


OldWitchcraft profile image

OldWitchcraft 3 years ago from The Atmosphere

The 2nd Amendment is much bigger than the NRA or the right wing or the Tea Party, etc. and whatever else they're telling you at HuffPost or CNN. It is a vital component of the Bill of Rights and the basic human rights of all people.

Only criminals want gun control aka. victim disarmament.

Go ahead and call me a Christian, right wing religious nut - I dare ya!


lovemychris profile image

lovemychris 3 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

Only criminals resist regulation.

The 1st line is well-regulated.

That's the one people like to pretend doesn't mean anything.

1. well-regulated....self-explanitory...especially the well part.

2. militia. Not every tom, dick and harry running around the supermart with a loaded rifle, throwing their weight around.

3. my right to be safe and secure in my person. That means--if I don't want to be around guns, you can't force me. Force.....that is always the issue with gun-types. Force: to make me do what you say, and to tolerate your weapons--even when I don't believe in them.

You are invading my space.

Back off. Keep your guns out of my face!


OldWitchcraft profile image

OldWitchcraft 3 years ago from The Atmosphere

"Only criminals resist regulation."

You mean like refusing to acknowledge the 2nd Amendment?

You are very wrong. All armed citizens are members of the militia. "...the right of the people, to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed." All people have a right to arm themselves as they see fit - or not, if you choose - but, you do NOT get to choose for me. You taking my rights and my choices is force and criminality.

I have a right to be safe and secure in my person, too, whether you think so or not... Men are armed all the time - that thing you carry between your legs becomes a weapon in a flash. When you get rid of those, maybe we'll talk more about victim disarmament.

If you don't like the laws in this U.S., maybe try Mexico where the citizens are disarmed - see how many guns you get "in your face" there just trying to drive down the highway in peace. I doubt seriously if any gun owner in the U.S. has put a gun in your face or you wouldn't talk the way you do.


lovemychris profile image

lovemychris 3 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

Oh boy...typical response...heard it since 2001!!!!--You don't like MY America, leave.

Well, guess what? It's my America too.

My America says a well-regulated militia, not a 100 magazine in a bar free-for-all.

Maybe you should move to a place where weapons are not regulated?That way, you can carry a bazooka if you like.

But--as guns are against my religion, you have no right to infringe on me.

You have guns...keep em to yourself.

plain and simple, isn't it?


lovemychris profile image

lovemychris 3 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

Here's my religion. My temple is this life.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detail...


OldWitchcraft profile image

OldWitchcraft 3 years ago from The Atmosphere

Have you spent time in Mexico?

I've actually had a gun in my face and one at my back - I was beaten and raped by a cop. I survived two such police-involved attacks in a period of 15 years, with some very bad health complications after the second attack.

You know who likes gun control? - control freaks and RAPISTS... people like you.

There is no law that can be written that takes away my right to self-defense, although people like you keep trying. You like having lots of crime victims, lots of rape, lots of dead women and children so you can dance on all our graves and talk about how loving you are and how much better you are than us because you *don't believe in gun violence*. You talk about love, but you're all about hate.


lovemychris profile image

lovemychris 3 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

I've been raped 4 times. Twice by my ex husband.

I don't like rapists,but how Godly of you to say so.

The control freaks are on your side.

Controling my private life, while sticking your guns in my face.

Guns are against my religion. NO JOKE.

You are infringing on my religious freedom.

You can have your guns---but you must follow the Constitution that your side always brags about loving.

WEll-Regulated Militia. Very simple, and not hard to understand.

Just twisted by the NRA and idiots like Nugent.


OldWitchcraft profile image

OldWitchcraft 3 years ago from The Atmosphere

I don't care about your god or your religion... I don't care how many times you *claim* you were raped... like this is some kind of victimhood contest. I've heard it all before from people like you. I know you're a liar and so do you.

And, you should really learn to read...


lovemychris profile image

lovemychris 3 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

Well, that takes the cake!

You don't care about my religion....and I'm a liar.

.....I'm also a citizen of the USA. Those rights apply to me every bit as much as you and yours.

Perhaps you should learn to read.

"Keep your guns", but they must be well-regulated.

I do not want them around me or mine.

Your rights do not supercede any one else's!

plain and simple.....and no personal attack. See how a religious person does it?

....I could give you the number of my church if you like?


OldWitchcraft profile image

OldWitchcraft 3 years ago from The Atmosphere

See, this is why you need to learn to read... The 2nd Amendment says nothing about regulating guns. Quite to the contrary, it says that the right of the people to keep and bear them "shall not be infringed," in other words it is NOT to be regulated.

If I join your weird cult, will I automatically become as loving and tolerant as you are?


lovemychris profile image

lovemychris 3 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

Yes you will...and today is the day!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gl2AO-7Vlzk&feature...

*****

and, what part of well-regulated are you not understanding?


OldWitchcraft profile image

OldWitchcraft 3 years ago from The Atmosphere

You are a psychotic sadist and a control freak who enjoys causing pain to others. You can stuff your god and your religion.

This conversation is over.


TeaPartyCrasher profile image

TeaPartyCrasher 3 years ago from Camp Hill, PA Author

That is a question a lot more Americans are asking!


TeaPartyCrasher profile image

TeaPartyCrasher 3 years ago from Camp Hill, PA Author

LMC:

Looks like you "Crashed" an insurrectionist ;)


OldWitchcraft profile image

OldWitchcraft 3 years ago from The Atmosphere

TeaPartyCrasher,

You have a sick sense of humor, if you think this is funny.

You and others like you are fighting a losing battle against goodness, right and decency. You *will* lose.


lovemychris profile image

lovemychris 3 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

Maybe it's not spelled right TPC......let's see W E L L...easy enough. R E G U L A T E D.

.....I'm not seeing the problem.......

ehhhhhhh. We DO see the problem don't we?

One Billion Rising? Try 6,999,999,998.

That ole 2%.......may have to stick something where the sun don't shine.

The barrell of a gun, perhaps?

We shall see. Happy V Day, crasher!


OldWitchcraft profile image

OldWitchcraft 3 years ago from The Atmosphere

Wayne Wilkins,

The 2nd Amendment is written in plain English. It doesn't take Congress to interpret it. Those criminals in Congress are not the final authority - the people are.

People are upset about many injustices. Many people feel the attacks on the 2nd Amendment are the last straw.

I know of no that court that has stated any such things as what you put in your comment - maybe you could show some references... If they did state such things, they are a criminal court. The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed - this is the law.

This makes no sense:

"And, Oldwitchcraft your the loser! If you put any gun before people's lives your a real loser. What did people do before the invention of the gun?"

One thing they did before they had guns was rape. They, also, used their fists. If you are a small woman, you have little defense against large men, except with a gun.

No gentleman would disarm a lady. You are certainly no gentleman. People who think that violent crime is a joke, who don't take the concerns of survivors seriously, have rotten, black souls. The gun is what I rely on to protect my life and the lives of other innocent people against criminals - including those who would disarm us so they can have their way with us... again, people like you.


TeaPartyCrasher profile image

TeaPartyCrasher 3 years ago from Camp Hill, PA Author

Actually, the question is what constitutes an "Infringment". Or needs to be.

But Old, keep shooting yourself in the foot, seems to be something tne NRA and it's allies are doing good at,


OldWitchcraft profile image

OldWitchcraft 3 years ago from The Atmosphere

TeaPartyCrasher,

I'm sure it will come as a great surprise to you to learn that not all people who respect the Bill of Rights are members of the NRA or are allied to it. I disagree with many of the things the NRA has advocated recently - lots of people do. The point of my original comment to you was just that - the NRA is not the end all and be all you seem to think it is in your article, above. Not everybody fits into a neat little pigeon hole for your intellectual convenience.

No infringement means no infringement... it's very simple.


TeaPartyCrasher profile image

TeaPartyCrasher 3 years ago from Camp Hill, PA Author

But what IS an infrigment? That is a question that has not been answered--IMO.


lovemychris profile image

lovemychris 3 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

I would say an infringement is anything that steps into my private life and tells me what to do, in a matter that affects no one but myself.


OldWitchcraft profile image

OldWitchcraft 3 years ago from The Atmosphere

Again, nobody but criminals want to disarm people... I think it's obvious what kind of people you are - all three of you.

You enjoy other people's pain... you want harm to come to other people because you derive some sick satisfaction from this.

And, this is when people need to be armed, to protect themselves from people like you...


OldWitchcraft profile image

OldWitchcraft 3 years ago from The Atmosphere

Wayne Wilkins,

You are one sick puppy. They let you work with rape survivors? Really? If they did, that's pretty sad. People like you and Ted Bundy (who once operated a call-line for survivors because he got off on hearing about their pain and suffering) should not be allowed around vulnerable women. It's clear to me what you are.

I am not a "them," Wayne. I'm not something other. I'm a human being and a woman who has had a very, very common experience in this country - a country where rape is epidemic... rape is the norm. My experience is the rule and not the exception... however, when the perpetrators are law enforcement offers, it takes on another dimension... it's the very reason why the populace should be armed.

And, why is this happening, Wayne? Because there are so many sick people... sick sadists like you, who enjoy other people's pain... who get off on it...

You are bitter and hateful. I don't know what you think your mother did to you, but you shouldn't take it out on innocent people who have done nothing to you... look at the attack you made on me above, completely unprovoked. Does that sound like mental stability to you? Clearly, you need professional help, Wayne, and I hope you get it soon before you hurt more people. Is this how you worked with "them," Wayne - those rape survivors you supposedly counseled? Did you talk to "them" like you just talked to me?

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