Notes from a Notorious Lefty-What Does the GOP Need to do to Improve?

Well first of all, I wish to confer my congratulations to President Obama on his reelection. But for my friends on the other side of the ideological divide, I don’t want to say “I told you so”, but I told you so. Ok, there has been no end to “Monday morning quarter backs” and such.

I want to make it clear that I need the Republican Party as a balance to the danger Democrats pose through nanny government and increasing collectivism verses the concepts of the individual prerogative, personal responsibility and self reliance. The fact that the GOP was defeated by a good margin is not sending the message to the GOP that these concepts are not important to most of us, they are. We may always have reasoned debate as to where those lines are, but most of us are concerned about avoiding extremes either way. They are, in fact, the source of America’s economic power at the core. The existence of a center right and center left party counterbalancing each other, avoiding extremism from either end is ideal.

Being inclusive does not have to be seen as the very antithesis of GOP core principles. The party has not only been guilty of ignoring large constituencies that rushed into the arms of Barack Obama, but had insulted them as well. The conservative view to the immigration issue need not be all wrapped up in the concept of ‘self deportation’. Even the GOP could have taken a more reflective stand without alienation so much of the Hispanic electorate. The GOP insults women and reduces them to children when they imply that they and their reproductive matters are reduced to just another ward of the state. To try to divert attention from these matters is disrespectful.

It is not just about the Obama supporters receiving ‘hand outs’. The young, Generation X and the Millennials are concerned about their economic future, comments like that from Governor Romney about their obtaining funds from their parents in the search for higher education gave them the impression of a society not willing to offer any assistance. I could not imagine getting through the university system so many years ago without the availability of student loans. Romney implies fewer Pell Grants and other economic assists that made higher education available to greater numbers. It amounts to an insensitive national government looking the other way as we need these young people to hold on to jobs and drive the economy of the future. It is easy to see why this group supported Mr.Obama.

As a African American, my problem with the GOP is that it does not have any solutions to growing economic inequity that leaves the most vulnerable all the more shut out. It does not have to be so; I remember the efforts of the late Jack Kemp, GOP congressman from New York during the 1980’s. He was an architect of the concept of Urban Enterprise Zones. This was an interesting concept of using tax breaks to bring jobs and industry into depressed urban areas. This was within the principles of the GOP, but was being used in a way that I could see was trying to address a serious problem. Had he ran for President in the early 80’s I could have seen myself voting for Mr. Kemp.

Now, instead of creativity to address problems, it is easier to suppress votes, malign Blacks as a group. That is going to run the vast majority into Barack Obama’s embrace. We see the GOP as the party of aristocrats wanting to hold on to their advantage at any cost. There are so many unfortunate comments from Mitt during the campaign that reinforced that viewpoint.

Racial, gender and age issues aside, even among Anglos, people have no reason to believe that going back to the future, more deregulation, tax cuts that leave them economically vulnerable so as to prime a pump as part of an approach held to great derision not much more than 4 years ago. The GOP needs to show that its vision of the economy and the role of Government are to the advantage of many, not just a chosen few. Mitt Romney was always ‘their ‘candidate, rather than ours. That perception of distrust among Anglos in addition to the disaffection of women and ethnic groups insured his defeat last November 6th.

The GOP needs to put on its thinking cap, and come to the conclusion that it is more to its benefit to admit that you need to join them rather than beat them. The demographic numbers are not going to permit the GOP in its present mode to do well in future national contests, but become a regional party.

In a nutshell here is what I think the GOP needs to address

1. The GOP needs to get rid of its extremist elements from the forefront of the party, as that goes well past center right into a zone that going to turn off most of us.

2. Show how the free-enterprise model they extol translates into creating jobs and opportunities for disaffected groups (facsimiles of representatives of these groups that they bring into the limelight are not good enough). As of late, the middle class has become a disaffected group. That is a large group.

3. Politics in this country are of such a nature that neither party can afford to take any part of the electorate for granted. You cannot ignore half of the voting age population and expect to receive their vote. Work harder to become more diverse, inclusive and thereby more relevant.

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Comments 81 comments

HSchneider 4 years ago from Parsippany, New Jersey

Very astute analysis, Credence2. Basically the GOP needs to take a page from Bill Clinton and his cohorts in the late 80's into 1992 and moderate the Democratic positions and promote inclusion. It worked remarkably well in 1992 and did the same for George W. Bush in 2000. Of course he ran off the rails in his second term. They learned the wrong lessons from their huge 2010 Congressional victories. It led to their 2012 downfall. Conservative stalwarts such as Bill Krystol, Sean Hannity, and David Frum have struck some incredibly moderate tones. Maybe there is hope for them. For their sake and the GOP's I hope " they can shut that whole Tea Party thing down". Sorry, couldn't help it. Great Hub.


ib radmasters profile image

ib radmasters 4 years ago from Southern California

You don't have a clue as to what the real problems of this country are today.

Obama isn't going to help it any more than he did in his first term.

He spent this entire year pandering for votes and shirking his duties as president.

If the voters were as dedicated to this country as the followers of twilight movies, then the country would have better government.


nanderson500 profile image

nanderson500 4 years ago from Seattle, WA

The demographics are definitely not favoring the GOP on a national level anymore, and it's only going to get worse if they don't evolve. It will be interesting to see what happens. Voted up, interesting, and shared.


Kyricus profile image

Kyricus 4 years ago from Ohio

The GOP does need to evolve, but they don't need to turn into another liberal party like the democrats. We don't need two parties spouting the same themes. There are ways to espouse conservative values without alienating people.

Not all women, Hispanics, blacks, nor whites are monolithic. There are conservative people amongst all groups. The republicans need to get rid of the fringe, as do the democrats, and speak respectfully of their values.


junko profile image

junko 4 years ago

The GOP has until 2024 , after Hillary has her 8 years as the first woman President of the United States to rebrand the Grand Old Party. By the 2024 elections the Tea Party will be history or the Republican Party will have no future. Reform is the only thing to do starting now or the Tea Party Congress will be voted out in the 2014 mid-term elections


ib radmasters profile image

ib radmasters 4 years ago from Southern California

Hillary Clinton didn't even become the first woman Vice President, and that was a choice made by Barack Obama. Why would she do any better as a presidential candidate?

By 2016 the country will be kissing the floor with its face. It won't have to fall far as it is on its knees right now.

Hillary Clinton was more qualified than Barack Obama to be president, yet the democrat liberal voters chose once again not to put a woman in the white house. So much for women's rights. The democrats and liberals talk about women's rights, but they don't put it into actions.


FitnezzJim profile image

FitnezzJim 4 years ago from Fredericksburg, Virginia

So, as part of their much anticipated reform, how many folks think the Republicans will be ther first to put a woman up as Presidential candidate?


Kyricus profile image

Kyricus 4 years ago from Ohio

Why should that matter, Any party, should nominate the most qualified. IMO, Hilary should have beat Barrack but, apparently racial politics outweighed feminist ones. At least the Repubs don't target specific groups as much as the Dems.


junko profile image

junko 4 years ago

Racial politics show its ugly face in the 2012 election. Republicans did target a specific group and it wasn't non- white groups and the results of the elections reflected their choice. I was surprised Romney had so many votes, but I understand racial politics.


ib radmasters profile image

ib radmasters 4 years ago from Southern California

Credence has left the building


Credence2 profile image

Credence2 4 years ago from Florida (Space Coast) Author

I am here, I appreciate your comments and will address them all directly, stand by!


Credence2 profile image

Credence2 4 years ago from Florida (Space Coast) Author

Nice to hear from you, HS, I don't believe that the left have had any real firebrands since McGovern. The equivalent of the radical right really has not existed since the 1960's. Democrats since Carter have been moderate, it is the Right that have all the crazies. The right have been under self-delusion in its attempt to staunch voting up to including its silly idea tha the polling data was consistently biased. We cannot forget all their media stars whose predictions were so far off the mark as to be laughable. If I were Karl Rove, I would keep a low profile as with all the money wasted he may have a price on his head.To hear Bill Krystal in a state of confession acknowledging that the GOP will need to compromise at this point was suprising. This may well be the beginning of the end of the radical right brand, lets hope so anyway...


Credence2 profile image

Credence2 4 years ago from Florida (Space Coast) Author

"You don't have a clue as to what the real problems of this country are today".

Well, IB, you righties may well be in a state of denial , but it looks like me and a majority of the electorate do have a clue as to what the problems of this country are and proposed the solution through the ballot loud and clear on November 6th

"Obama isn't going to help it any more than he did in his first term."

He will get to do a lot more by reining in the troublesome GOP house. He already has effective strategies on the drawing board to do just that.

"He spent this entire year pandering for votes and shirking his duties as president."

That is a biases statement to be sure, which incumbent president that wants to be reelected did not devote time to campaigning, do you know any? I guess that Romney did not pander but it just the Dems, thats nuts! Well, elections have consequences and you lost, and you did after all the dirty tricks and self delusion failed.

"If the voters were as dedicated to this country as the followers of twilight movies, then the country would have better government."

I suppose that you and Donald Trump pouting like school children know so much more than the rest of us? You had better figure out a more substantive strategy or the GOP will continue to take major hits in the national election contests.


Credence2 profile image

Credence2 4 years ago from Florida (Space Coast) Author

The demographics are definitely not favoring the GOP on a national level anymore, and it's only going to get worse if they don't evolve. It will be interesting to see what happens. Voted up, interesting, and shared

NAnderson. Thanks for dropping by, the question is will the hard righties allow the party to evolve? While there has been positive rumblings from a few rightwing pundits. there remains Limbaugh and a few die hards. We will keep our fingers crossed...


Credence2 profile image

Credence2 4 years ago from Florida (Space Coast) Author

Well, Kyricus, I do agree that there does need to be a difference in the two parties. And I think that the GOP need to learn that conservative points of view is not a guarantee of non-support from the groups they consistently have trouble with. There are many areas were reasonable people can work with more conservative values, areas in the social issues or economics. Without extremism, cetner left can live with a center right administration and vice versa

Thanks for dropping by


RavenBiker profile image

RavenBiker 4 years ago from Pittsburgh, PA.

Interesting Credence. I've advocated that the Republicans excise their extremist elements since the 1980's since President Reagan included them in the 1980 election cycle. But as I was told by a sympethetic Republican then and still today, political parties are structured as democracies and in a democracy, no one can affort to be exclusionary. Many more Republicans have bailed on their home party in greater numbers than from the Democratic Party since party politics started in the 80's.

My solution for angry and disassociated Republicans is simple. Join the Libertarian party. The only way the GOP will "feel" their misplacement is when the money amongst them ceases (politics and money go hand-in-hand).

Voted your hub interesting.


Credence2 profile image

Credence2 4 years ago from Florida (Space Coast) Author

Hi Junko, thanks for weighing in. This election 2012 could well be the last where the GOP could use its Anglo only approach to win elections, this must be a time for a great deal of soul searching for them. Obama may need to have the Tea Party congressmen eliminated if we are to make any serious progress resolving economic problems. I sure hope that we do not have to wait until 2024 to see the Tea Party vanquished in American politics!


Credence2 profile image

Credence2 4 years ago from Florida (Space Coast) Author

"Hillary Clinton didn't even become the first woman Vice President, and that was a choice made by Barack Obama. Why would she do any better as a presidential candidate?"

IB, this is an inane argument, why was Obama required to make Hillary Clinton his vice president?

"By 2016 the country will be kissing the floor with its face. It won't have to fall far as it is on its knees right now."

That is your opinion and it remains to be seen, but I bet that we would not have to had waiting as until 2016 before Romney and the GOP screwed everything up.

"Hillary Clinton was more qualified than Barack Obama to be president, yet the democrat liberal voters chose once again not to put a woman in the white house. So much for women's rights. The democrats and liberals talk about women's rights, but they don't put it into actions."

As for Hillary's qualifications as compared to Obama, that is your opinion as well and can't hold water under close evaluation. Do you really believe that Obama's choices have anything to do with womens rights, Clinton is Secy of State, one of more powerful cabinet positions. No one asks about silly things like this except rightwingers. Are they really all this obtuse?This is why you lose and will continue to lose on the national stage!


Credence2 profile image

Credence2 4 years ago from Florida (Space Coast) Author

Hi, Jim, I trust that you are doing well in the 'Old Dominion"? It may well be a fact that the GOP could well offer a female candidate in 2016. I sure that there are many in its ranks that could qualify. I certainly would not be surprised. Thanks for your comment on the article.....


Credence2 profile image

Credence2 4 years ago from Florida (Space Coast) Author

Kyricus, I don't think that the outcome was based on neither sexual or racial politics. When you think back on the 2008 campaign, Obama simply was a better campaigner and ran a better campaign. People underestimated his ability to their peril. But, faced with any GOP alternative, I would have supported Clinton had she become the nominee in 2008


Charles James profile image

Charles James 4 years ago from Yorkshire, UK

There is an intellectual centre right case to be made. Bill Clinton started to make it at the 2012 Democrat Conference (see it on Youtube!). Bill is colonising this middle ground in preparation for Hilary's run in 2016. By the time the Republicans sort themselves out they will either have to agree with Bill completely or stake out policy ground right off the cliff face.

As a socialist I would prefer a Left perspective, but this is not on offer!


Credence2 profile image

Credence2 4 years ago from Florida (Space Coast) Author

Greetings, RavenBiker, thanks for reading and commenting. It looks like all the trouble began with Ronald Reagan and his deficit spending. How many Republicans am I going to get to admit to that?We do agree to the danger of an exclusionary approach to a political party platform and that applies to either side. The problem with thrid parties is what they have always been and what would concern me, votes taken from either of the two majors may be nothing more than a protest vote allowing the more likely outcome of the opposing party winning without a fight. Third parties have played the spoiler going backto the Bull Moose party of TR over a century ago. Pleasure to make your acquaintance and I hope to the have the opportunity to confer with you again...


Credence2 profile image

Credence2 4 years ago from Florida (Space Coast) Author

Hello, Charles, thanks for reading and providing your comment. I was comfortable with Bill Clinton politically and ideologically. I believe that most of us on the left could handle vacillation from center right to center left from time to time The GOP needs to focus on moderation if it ever hopes to be taken seriously by the majority of the electorate. If Obama does well in this term Hillary Clinton may well be in a good position for 2016


nicomp profile image

nicomp 4 years ago from Ohio, USA

"As a African American, my problem with the GOP is that it does not have any solutions to growing economic inequity that leaves the most vulnerable all the more shut out."

As an American, I am saddened that people would look to a political party to engineer economic equity into a society. The very concept is an oxymoron, but folks still get taken in by it.


Charles James profile image

Charles James 4 years ago from Yorkshire, UK

I have great respect for nicomp, but I think I must disagree with him. If politics is the non-violent route for decision making, then it is entirely proper for a political party to try to engineer economic equity into a society. Helping to feed the children of poor families, helping them to obtain a decent education and life opportunities is a relatively painless way to move a society towards economic and social health.


nicomp profile image

nicomp 4 years ago from Ohio, USA

Charles James, it's troubling that anyone believes a political party or a government can do those things. We are in a world of hurt when the party of self-reliance has been painted as racist and homophobic and sexist while the party of socialism has somehow convinced enough people that they can vote themselves prosperous.


Charles James profile image

Charles James 4 years ago from Yorkshire, UK

Hi nicomp. Good to talk with you again.

In the UK the Labour Party brought in the National Health Service, universal social security, the Open University, the Educational Means Allowance (subsidy for financially poor students to stay in education after age 16) and many other good things. This could only be done by government, and the socialist party had to win elections.

If you say the Republicans are the party of self-reliance, that is only one of the labels often applied to them. I have known some really nice people who are Republican supporters.


junko profile image

junko 4 years ago

Charles, the flip side of your disagreement with nicomp is reality for the low and underclass. Engineered economic equity is a creation not a law of nature or man. War only create economic inequity for the people who need help.


nicomp profile image

nicomp 4 years ago from Ohio, USA

Charles James , those programs sure sound good, but I can't find any of them in the US Constitution.


Credence2 profile image

Credence2 4 years ago from Florida (Space Coast) Author

Thanks, first of all Nicomp for creating commentary that stimulate debate of the things that we all need to discuss at great length.

Let me apologize, the ability to recognize that the GOP does not have solutions to growing economic inequity is not exclusive to me, merely because I am African-American, but others that choose to look can see it as well.

I do not look to a political party to engineer economic equity in a society but I do expect government to act as a referee to insure that everyone plays by the same rules. The New Deal and its tenets passed Constitutional muster during the 1930's, if such a program was unconstitutional it certainly managed to stay under the radar over the last 80 years and is hardly seen as an imposition of Government.

Example, financial markets. The Right is concern about government not getting involved in these markets, but their lack of regulation certainly contributed to the meltdown in September, 2008. The Right still fights tooth and nail against Wall Street being regulated so as to protect the economy and tax payers from a repeat performance. While the Horatio Alger point of view has its merits, it only works when people have a sense of basic fairness in the system in which they compete. The premise that any one can go as far as their abilities take them is a idea that makes America what it is. But, if too many rig the game, tilt the table to their advantage, than it can perceived that that person committed to hard work is doing it all for its reward and thats not good enough.

What is anti-trust? Government obviously recognises that in the interest of a vibrant and competitive economy the use to obtain overpowering ability over others is a non-starter, similar to 'to large to fail". It discourages competition which is at the heart of our economic system.

We all have to live within parameters: one pole resisting the idea that people should not take responsibility and accept the outcome of bad decisions in life, but the other pole of not allowing the game to rigged by a few so that 'you lose' even before the horse gets out of the starting gate is at least just as important.

This article that I penned last year, make my perspective a bit clearer.

http://hubpages.com/politics/Why-Do-Conservatives-...

Nicomp and friends thanks again for your imput!


ib radmasters profile image

ib radmasters 4 years ago from Southern California

Credence2

As long as blacks say they are African Americans they will never attain equality as Americans. Why is it important for the government to pigeon hole people based on their race or color. So putting African in front of American is not the same as American with an African heritage.

And if something affects someone that is an American it should be handled as an American, not a Slash something American. That is called equality.

Today with all the slash Americans, the white male is the one that has no legal remedy, and while a few white males are the stereo type that the slash Americans claim inequality, the majority of the white males are mistreated and taken advantage of but without a legal remedy. The slash Americans have the legal remedy because of race or and color, whites don't have them.

Blacks have been in this country for over four hundred years, and you would think that they wouldn't need the slash Americans to protect them. It is has been over one hundred years since the Civil War and it was followed much later by the Civil Rights Amendments. Then it was the discrimination laws to help the blacks, and other colors other than white. It has now been several decades where the blacks should have achieved equality.

These laws appear to have done nothing to stimulate the blacks to achieve equality, and certainly hiding behind their color has not helped.


nicomp profile image

nicomp 4 years ago from Ohio, USA

"I do not look to a political party to engineer economic equity in a society but I do expect government to act as a referee to insure that everyone plays by the same rules."

Then I trust you are not a Democrat, the party of quotas.

"The Right is concern about government not getting involved in these markets, but their lack of regulation certainly contributed to the meltdown in September, 2008."

Completely false, but certainly accepted as truth in many circles. Over-regulation precipitated the meltdown, specifically pressure put on the mortgage markets to loan to completely unqualified borrowers in the name of economic equality.


Charles James profile image

Charles James 4 years ago from Yorkshire, UK

I am not going to criticise the American Constitution.

The people together can achieve great things. As your President Obama said, "Yes We Can."


nicomp profile image

nicomp 4 years ago from Ohio, USA

"I am not going to criticise the American Constitution."

But I'm convinced you will ignore it. You can't show me all these wonderful programs in there.


Borsia profile image

Borsia 4 years ago from Currently, Philippines

The Republicans problem is that they have been taken over completely by thr religious extremist.

Unless they divorce the church and stick to political issues rather than their “moral values” they are going to have a hard time pulling in the independents. It is the independents who determine the winner in almost every case.

One of the things that both parties forget is that once you make statements in the primaries the independents aren’t going to forget. In most elections hard no-compromise statements are made in primaries then attempts to soften, ignore or even deny them are made in the main election.

Whether the GOP likes it or not, the majority of Americans don’t want politicians making medical decisions be they about abortion or most other things.

Most Americans are in no mood to enter into yet another useless military conflict, though I think both parties are about equal in this probability.

Raising taxes on the uber-rich and on those making millions yet paying virtually nothing has to happen with an absolute minimum of 20% after all deductions.

At the same time the media has to come clean with the public and explain that businesses of any kind can’t pay taxes or fees, it is not physically possible. Businesses can only collect taxes. The fix here is to tax things made offshore, which already pay many, on import.

Will any of this ever happen? No, it is extremely unlikely to happen in either party.

I will leave one last point here. Both parties are equally bad and equally to blame for the current financial situation. Both parties are hopelessly corrupted and both parties are owned and run by shadow figures who couldn’t care less about America or our future.

At our current rate of decline it is very likely that the US will fracture and collapse just like the USSR did. The only thing keeping the US Dollar as high as it is, is that the rest of the world is also failing.


Charles James profile image

Charles James 4 years ago from Yorkshire, UK

Nicomp - The American Constitution is principally about the mechanisms by which decisions are made, defines the boundaries of Federal power, and bans some areas from legislation. It is not a recipe book from which you choose what dishes you like. It is more like a Meccano set!

Borsa - Clinton actually reduced the deficit and eventually generated a surplus. It was Bushes who wrecked the economy. Obama is doing pretty well clearing up the mess.


nicomp profile image

nicomp 4 years ago from Ohio, USA

Charles James, please name something that is constitutionally outside the boundaries of federal power.


ib radmasters profile image

ib radmasters 4 years ago from Southern California

Slavery is outside of the US Constitution. The government cannot have slaves.


nicomp profile image

nicomp 4 years ago from Ohio, USA

ib radmasters : where does it say that?


Credence2 profile image

Credence2 4 years ago from Florida (Space Coast) Author

Ib and nicomp, we are always going to be at odds on the topic as I distrust the political right. Equality should be real life experience in our society and has nothing to do with what African-American/Blacks, if you will choose to call themselves. These ethnic labels are certainly distinctive when one wants to looks at employment opportunities, income levels among ethnic and racial groups for example. So the color blind theory the right wants us to subscribe to is not always correct So it looks like some of the more adverse things in life affect some"Americans" more than others, until those distinctions are eliminated, we cannot see ourselves as part of an large amorphous mass. Most of the wealth and the concentration thereof in this country lies with the white male, so they are hardly victims. We all know that without having to look it up. Being black without the 'slash' has not proven to be protective...Discrimination laws were designed protect those not of the dominant race and class, who were kept from full political and economic participation in American life. So who was it that were putting up the obstacles, would you care to hazard a guess? The laws did make sure that our adversaries could not abuse us in these important civil rights areas without being held accountable and that is doing plenty!

There appears to be a lot of racial resentment here, in all fairness I address both sides of this in the articles "A Message from and to Black America" The laws have prevented inequality from being blatantly imposed upon these groups and that is a good start.

Just because we are progressive does not mean we are advocating quotas, fair opportunity and inclusion is desired only. As for the issue regarding all those "irresponsible mortgage holders' obtaining mortgages they could afford (malarky). This topic was discussed at great length in "Conservative Viewpoint-The Wells Fargo Affair" As for the rightwing talking points, I am always going to take issue.

Back to the topic of the article, it is obvious from the election results that the right wing view of Government and the Economy did not resonate with the voting public. With the changing demographic, how are you going to convince the majority of voters that your point of view is the right one so as you can do better in the next electoral contest?


Credence2 profile image

Credence2 4 years ago from Florida (Space Coast) Author

Hi Borsia, hope all is well in your corner of the planet

Yes, you are right about the GOP and the extremists that are more and more dooming any chance they have to win elections. While both parties contribute to the mess we are in, I see the GOP as the greater fomenter between the two. Besides, you and I have talked about a third party, I have a better chance of being struck by lightning before see a viable third party in the near future. So, I am still left with the lesser of two evils.

Libertarians have just as much heartburn with the platform of the GOP as with that of the Democrats


Credence2 profile image

Credence2 4 years ago from Florida (Space Coast) Author

Hello, Charles, I generally tend to agree with the statement you made in an earlier post shown below

"Clinton actually reduced the deficit and eventually generated a surplus. It was Bushes who wrecked the economy. Obama is doing pretty well clearing up the mess."


nicomp profile image

nicomp 4 years ago from Ohio, USA

"There appears to be a lot of racial resentment here, ..."

Without question. And it comes from you.


Credence2 profile image

Credence2 4 years ago from Florida (Space Coast) Author

It is obvious that I touched a nerve, I got no problems but as shown by November 6th results my perception is not mine alone....

Couldn't help but notice, how could someone as obviously well educated as you are be rightwinger?


nicomp profile image

nicomp 4 years ago from Ohio, USA

If you're writing to me, I'm not a rightwinger, I'm a common-senser. I grasp the concept of self-determination and the value of freedom. The left has abandoned such.

Regarding my education; to completely honest with you, I have absolutely no clue why anyone would ask for four more years of this. I truly cannot understand it. No left-wing argument makes the slightest bit of sense unless you are willing to give control of yourself over to the federal government. If that's how you want to run the country into the ground, go for it. It's lost on me.


ib radmasters profile image

ib radmasters 4 years ago from Southern California

nicomp

Where is the power to have slaves.

The 13th amendment

What grounds would they be able to use?

Powers to the federal government were granted, what is left went to the states. Supremacy Clause and the 10th Amendment.

Credence

You didn't get the point of my comment.

BTW the electoral college process takes the power of the people and it puts it in the hands of congress which selects the electorates. One person one votes, and the current all or nothing for the state throws away the individual vote.

As more and more people get into the government handout, 47 million people are getting food stamps, the less likely the voters will vote down the handout.

The liberals are feeding the people daily, while the conservatives are trying to get them to feed themselves.

Equality means we are all treated the same.

Like NiComp I am not for the right, but I do see that the liberals are doing more damage to the country than is the right.

Obama spent his last two years as Senator on the pandering for voters, yes he had a lot of company, and look what happened to the country while they were busy pandering.

Now in 2012, Obama failed to meet his 2008 election promises, and he pandered and played golf the entire year. Romney is a private citizen and he was not obligated like Obama to do his elected job. Pandering is not his job, but he does it better than most.

The Jews and the Europeans from the last century were all discriminated against, but they no longer use the slash American. The reason is that they have lifted themselves up in spite of the government. Even the Japanese Americans were put in internment camps during WWII, but they came back. Most Asians do really well in the US, even the ones that immigrate into the country.

There is a black president, black four star generals, congressman etc. So where is the racism?


junko profile image

junko 4 years ago

The RACISM is In you ib radmasters and you need to let it go before it destoys you. "HATE HURTS YOU"


nicomp profile image

nicomp 4 years ago from Ohio, USA

junko, try to get beyond the name-calling. I don't see any racism in ib's comments.


junko profile image

junko 4 years ago

nicomp, You sound like ib radmasters, I called no one out of there persona. Because of the passion expressed by ib radmasters closings argument about the Jews, Europeans, and Japanese Americans that were in enternment camps for a period of time, "All came back". "Most Asians really do well even the ones that immigrate ". That sounds racist to me nicomp. All immigants for the most part, do betters than Negros(Descendents of Slaves). It seems that people with no knowledge of their history , culture and language don't compete well with people who's history don't have a 400 year gap and lived institutionalized racisn for over 100 years. I don't play the race card, but I know when it is played.


Charles James profile image

Charles James 4 years ago from Yorkshire, UK

"The privilege of the Writ of Habeas Corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in Cases of Rebellion or Invasion the public Safety may require it.

No Bill of Attainder or ex post facto Law shall be passed."

Just some quotes from the US Constitution. The founding fathers had more sense than to be unduly restrictive or prescriptive. What each generation does with America is its responsibility. You are bounded only by the width of your imagination and your capacity to organise for a better future.


FSlovenec profile image

FSlovenec 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA

Blindness and emotion in the political process is a cause of the separation of the country... I did not vote for Obama, he is our president, all authority comes from God and his authority comes from God...we need to pray for our president, our congressional leaders..great nations always decline from within.. I pray the moral decline in this country would turn, we would stop killing babies and redefining what God ordained, marriage, that families would stay together, men would take up their responsibility of the head of house hold and the God ordained spiritual leader..it is not about economics or a donkey or an elephant it is truly about the Lamb who was slain so that we could have eternal life...God Bless You...


ib radmasters profile image

ib radmasters 4 years ago from Southern California

FSlovenec

That is the same thing that the Muslim terrorists believe.

Does this world really look like there is a God?

If you think so, then you don't expect much from a God.


ib radmasters profile image

ib radmasters 4 years ago from Southern California

junko

You don't make any compelling arguments, you just try to put down the people that make arguments that you can't argue successfully.

The only race card being played here is yours.

The Jews were discriminated against in this country, and they could have hidden behind their religion but they didn't. They worked hard to get into positions of power and wealth. And millions of Jews were murdered in Germany.

The Japanese Americans in WWII were discriminated by the US government, while the German and Italian Americans were not sent to these camps.

How many years do the blacks want to hide behind slavery. Slavery was common in Africa, even by the black tribes.

Junko what you are saying is that the Blacks in the US claiming African Heritage can make it here, even after four hundred years. Is that the fault of the country, or of the people.

I say the answer is of the people.

My comments on getting rid of the African before American was actually a constructive thought for getting equality for blacks. The government can't mandate equality, that must be earned by the people trying to attain it.


Credence2 profile image

Credence2 4 years ago from Florida (Space Coast) Author

IB, most conservatives support the EC as a way of giving their marginally populated states and residents a larger voice in the contest than their straight numbers would call for. There are plenty of reasons why the electoral college is valid. The elections where there was a winner of the electoral college and not of the popular vote is rare indeed considering all the elections since 1789.

Have you ever received unemployment benifits? We have been in a recession, it is to be expected that more people are going to need these programs. You have to be careful as you never know when you may be among them. It is noteworthy that the conservatives are trying to get people to feed themselves, but meantime people still have to eat.

Well, I say that the right is FAR more dangerous in almost every area of national life. What president has ever been able to meet campaign promises, he can set goals and agendas, but he is not a King and has to work with the other branches of government. I liked Obama's goals and objectives better than I did Romney's. If we didn't have a dirty obstructionist GOP House of Reps, maybe we could have accomplished more..... And, I suppose that Bush did not campaign against the challenger John Kerry in 2004?

If you saw a person of Asian ancestery walking the street, and asked to describe what would you call him or her? I acknowledge that Asians do well because of a culture that demands nothing less than excellence. I have written an article critical of Blacks for having a deficit in this area. So, I cannot be accused on not looking at these matters objectively.

http://hubpages.com/politics/One-Progressives-View...

As for racism, this society just in the fact that Obama was reelected makes the point that it is not the problem it once was. I will give you that.


Credence2 profile image

Credence2 4 years ago from Florida (Space Coast) Author

Nicomp, you just read my hub about multi-level marketing, do I sound like a baby-daddy to you? I am just like you, someone who tried to find a way to make money on my own. While I am a lefty does that make me a moocher, such as the right has been painting everyone as? The majority are more afraid of the wall street gamblers who steal millions of money from hard working people with impunity than worry about nickels and dimes that the poor deals in. I knew people that work 2 jobs a day who still struggle, I don't see anyone getting away with anything. The alternative to federal government is being reduced to slaves by the corporate power structure. Well, I believe that the right ultimately seeks a feudalistic relationship between haves and have nots. Nothing is lost, I understand perfectly.


Credence2 profile image

Credence2 4 years ago from Florida (Space Coast) Author

FSlovenec

Scriptures say give to Caesar what is Caesar, the tax, the tribute....Give what belongs to God to God. If more christians walked the talk and set the example society would change through the sheer weight of rightminded people. You would not need to twist arms and indoctrinate others that resist. There are secular matters and their are spiritual ones, the Bible makes provisions for both. Thanks for sharing your opinion....


Credence2 profile image

Credence2 4 years ago from Florida (Space Coast) Author

IB, semantics are not going help. yes the Government can mandate equality, I have the right to vote, the right to equal treatment in public accomodations, just to mention a few. If I waited for my adversaries to acknowledge that I have earned it, I would be waiting until the sun supernovas. The pressure of the courts and the law is what makes sure that I as a tax payer have certain rights that are not subject to the approval of others, and are not negotiable. Thank God for that


Charles James profile image

Charles James 4 years ago from Yorkshire, UK

Hey guys

What should the GOP do to improve?

There seem to be two GOPs, the "tough love" folk who believe people should try harder to support themselves but who do care about those in tough times, and the "haters". My view would be to ditch the haters.


FSlovenec profile image

FSlovenec 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA

I am very conservative, I say ditch the haters!!! Let us mentor others to be able to make their own way, for those that cannot make their own way provide for them in a way that supports the dignity of the person. I am an Independent voting both sides of the aisle, voting for the person their moral record and beliefs rather than a party and a platform designed by a chosen few, Thank you for the thoughtful hub and the smart discussion, Happy Thanksgiving!!


Credence2 profile image

Credence2 4 years ago from Florida (Space Coast) Author

"I am an Independent voting both sides of the aisle, voting for the person their moral record and beliefs rather than a party and a platform designed by a chosen few"

I will fight for your right to vote and to adhere to whatever principles you wish that support your choice or lack of one. Conservatives have to realize that everyone else must have that same perogative if we want to call this a democratic political system.

As always thanks for your input and Happy Holidays


Jmiller17 4 years ago from Marietta, Georgia

First I would like to say this is an excellent article, and even tho I have the opposite view, I really enjoyed this article and several others of yours as well. You definitely have a knack for political commentary. Even through you lean to the left, your ability to look at stuff from the point of view of the right and critique the GOP as if you are an insider is nothing short of skillful. I would like to thank you for commenting on my own article as well. As you requested, I responded to your critique and like I promised, I am now leaving my own comments on your article. I would appreciate your response to my comments as well.

I strongly agree with your view of needing a 2nd party to balance things out. A majority of Americans see things on both sides and want a more central government with a better ability of compromise then what we have seen in the last several years. Personally I think it was very truthful of you, as one you from what I can tell, votes Democratic, not be afraid to call their nanny state policies a danger.

I would have to disagree with you saying “the GOP was defeated by a good margin” Yes, in terms of the Electoral College, it was a blue landslide. However, the popular vote was within 2-3% points, indicating a strongly divided nation, but not a mandate or rejection of one party or the other. Also, the GOP still control the House, meaning they won the District by District, County by County vote. Lastly, the GOP control more Governorship and State Legislative Chambers then I past years, and President Obama won re-election a smaller margin then his first election, again indicating that yes he won, but it was not a riveting victory.

I think your analysis of the Hispanic vote was correct, and will concede that the GOPs view, whether right or wrong, caused the Hispanic vote to go even more Democrat. I also believe you “nailed it” on your statement saying “he GOP needs to show that its vision of the economy and the role of Government are to the advantage of many, not just a chosen few.” Commination is a huge problem within the GOP, and the GOP has struggled in the last decade of showing people why their economic principles work for everybody, not just rich people, not just white people, but for all Americans. I believe that if this problem isn’t remedied soon, it will be a long while before the GOP reigns supreme on the National level.

For reasons that I don’t want to divulge here due to length, I disagree with your point 1 comment on the GOP extremist views. I will agree that they need refined, and at a national level, scaled back. But many of these views are the heart of the party and there is a large chunk of the GOP base that holds these views supreme above all and if they are removed from the GOP banner, I see a party split. If this happens they is no way for the GOP to defeated the united Democrat Party. Evidence of this has already been presented with the Tea Party. Love them or hate them, they have split the GOP vote at the primary level, and some will argue that the GOP would have fared better in some elections if the Tea Party Candidate had not been nominated. If you are interested, in my hub FORWARD: Where the GOP goes from here. I get into the issue of communication, social values, and appealing to race, especially the black vote. Thank you for this article. I look forward to some friendly debates and commentary in the future on all issue political.


Credence2 profile image

Credence2 4 years ago from Florida (Space Coast) Author

Again, JM, thanks for reading and commenting. I like to write the article from the perspective of "if I were you".

Yes, I am a Democrat but I know that going to far down the left bank is not desirable, really.

It is true as you say the percentage of popular vote that went to Obama was relatively small, but in these contentious times, it is a larger margin of victory than enjoyed by any presidential candidate since GHW Bush in 1988, 24 years and 6 election cycles ago. The situation is quite divided as you said, but there is going to be more pressure on the GOP controlled house to pay attention to the electorate and move beyond rigid ideological positions and resolve the budget crisis. The voters in reelecting Obama has sent a message as to which path to a solution they want to take. The same was said of Reagan and LBJ who when victorious interpreted that as 'stay the course'. I believe that the "House" in fear of the consequences of appearing obstinate, are going to be more open to negotiation this time.

And you are right, as a conservative in recognizing the foundation of hard work and delayed gratification as the basis for success. From the right, I can understand why they believe that they are working up hill, who is going to be persuaded to eat spinach when they can have the ice cream now? I understand and for this reason do not want to push too far to the left. I have said that GOP principles do not necessarily have to be in conflict with middle, working class and poor. You just need to show me how you are going to address these groups' concerns outside of giving breaks to the wealthy and expecting them to shower everyone with opportunity, rather than just put the money into their pockets at taxpayers expense. This means more than a band-aid approach but a think tank offensive to craft policies and programs that we all can see are going to benifit the man in the street, rather than Wall Street, staying within the party principles and widely communicate these ideas.

As for the extremist views, I suspect that they have already divided the party, the social conservatives vs the pragmatists. The idea, for example, that the GOP platform of no abortion even in cases of rape or incest can be moved into the mainstream is not credible. While Romney is anti-choice, even he knew the dangers of going to far. There have been many senatorial candidates on the GOP side that expressed this extreme view insuring their loss and firming up the Dem majority in the Senate. This is going too far down the right side of the pole. We all know that there is going to be a heated discussion of this issue, but to exclude the female population and legislate over their heads is a losing formula.

I will most certainly check on your recommended article, I look FORWARD to it...


FSlovenec profile image

FSlovenec 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA

The left has given the US the proud distinction of the leading abortion nation in the world! The left starting with FDR has turned our country into an entitlement society. Now the left wants to tax those evil successful people even more. They fail to recognize that 10% of the population pays 70%+ of the taxes. Those evil hardworking successful people pay for all the socialist programs the left keeps supporting. At some common sense has to prevail. We do not want to be France, Greece or any other European country..we do not want our healthcare system to deteriorate to the level of Canada or any other socialist country, excuse we have done that with Obama Care..does anyone realize here are 21 tax increases for all people in Obama Care or are we going to comment on emotion not on fact. I love the emotional left who want the government involved in everything..how many have a copy of the Constitution, read it and understand it..love your wacky positions


Borsia profile image

Borsia 4 years ago from Currently, Philippines

FS; the huge portion of taxes (around 80+%) is paid by those making $250+ but the top, the multimillion / billionaires pay very little this is where the conflict comes in. They pay less than a man earning $50,000.

The big GOP failure was inserting their religious agenda


My Esoteric profile image

My Esoteric 4 years ago from Keystone Heights, FL

Awesome Hub, Credence, and I marked it so. (Credence, could you e-mail my partner at jana@adtsllc.com; she has a few questions? I had sent her the info you sent me quite awhile back but have now lost all track of it.)

@Nicomp, you say - "Completely false, but certainly accepted as truth in many circles. Over-regulation precipitated the meltdown, specifically pressure put on the mortgage markets to loan to completely unqualified borrowers in the name of economic equality." -

I have to ask you "what regulation are you talking about?" Virtually every financial regulation put in place after the Great Depression to prevent another one from ever happening again was either repealed or circumvented by the conservatives by other laws, with a little unfortunate help from Clinton.

Given that the empirical evidence makes it abundently clear that two of the primary ingredients necessary to major meltdowns are 1) greed and 2) little or no regulation of the financial market, what happened in 2008 was predictable. The day Clinton signed the conservative legislation repealing Glass-Stegall, I told friends that a major recession or depression was in the offing.

Mainstream economists of either political stripe do not disagree with the above assessment as to relationship between the lack of financial regulations and economic meltdowns, what they disagree about is what to do about it when the inevitable major recession or depression occurs.


My Esoteric profile image

My Esoteric 4 years ago from Keystone Heights, FL

@FS, and that 10% get 99% of the perks of society that become available to those who have wealth, simply because they have wealth, not because they earned it. They have access to power only because they have wealth, not because they earned it. They have the ability to make or break the lives of the 90% below them simply because they have the wealth, not because they earned it. All they may have earned is their wealth, not the perks that come with the wealth; those perks need to be taxed.

Why is it that it was OK for those making over $250K to pay a 39.5% marginal rate in 1994 and not in 2013? What changed other than an ill-conceived tax cut in 2001 - 2003. Why has it become such a doomsday scenario that their rates go back up a "whopping, soul-crunching, job-destroying 4.5 cents on each dollar earned over $250,000 when that wasn't the case in 1994; your logic baffles me.


My Esoteric profile image

My Esoteric 4 years ago from Keystone Heights, FL

@Nicomp. What is your opinion of the 1964 Civil Rights Act? Was that an infringment by the government on the right of citizens to discriminate and segregate?


FSlovenec profile image

FSlovenec 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA

The 39.5% is not relevant it will be 39.5% plus the elimination of the charitable deduction (let us match what we give to charity either as a percentage or as real dollars) and the real estate interest deduction..39.5% becomes a bigger number, then add the health care that I am required to provide more costly and lower benefits than now... add to that the 21 taxes in Obama care, the carbon tax that is on its way...the middle class will get crushed by Obama watch it happen to the naive voter... those of us who know how to earn will continue to earn no matter the environment.. let us chat in 2 years "free" will be understood ...by the way without a dramatic reduction in entitlement spending the debt continues to be out of control, even if the 2% are taxed 100% ... take the emotion out and start to look at and "understand" the facts..let us pray for our President and the Congress..


My Esoteric profile image

My Esoteric 4 years ago from Keystone Heights, FL

FS, I am thinking you are mixing some apples and oranges. The reversion back to the Clinton-era rate for the rich, the charity deduction, the real estate deduction are apples, and depending on what you mean about health care fall into the apple category, while the Obamacare taxes and carbon tax fall into the orange category.

CBO says the fall of your healthcare costs for businesses and individuals will fall as a result of Obamacare; common sense says it will as well given the inclusion of so many more, generally healthy individuals into the pool. (For those who would rather sponge off of society by refusing to get health insurance will have to pay more in the short-run, that is true, but, in the long-run they still receive medical care, often free-of-charge to them, but at a cost to the taxpayer.)

I presume the charitable and mortgage interest you mention is a tightening up of restrictions. Do you know if that adds .01% or .1% in additional revevue coming out of the pockets of the rich?

What as the number '21' have to do with anything? As much money could have been raised to help pay for Obamacare with '1' tax or '100' taxes. It is no secret that Obamacare contains excise taxes to help defray its costs and, if I am not mistaken, a tax surcharge somewhere.

Finally, when has reduction in spending, especially entitlement spending, ever been taken off the table except in the rhetoric of the Right? If I remember right, Obama's budget had something like $1.4 trillion in tax revenues and $3. something trillion in spending reductions reaching the number of $4+ trillion Erskin-Bowles said was needed over 10 years. $1 trillion of the spending cuts have already been instituted, I think, including the cuts on defense. Exactly where did you think the rest was coming from? It seems to me entitlements are the only source.


Charles James profile image

Charles James 4 years ago from Yorkshire, UK

When discussing the tax burden, do not forget the sales tax levied on many products. Once this is figured in, the working poor pay a higher proportion of their income in tax than is commonly realised.


My Esoteric profile image

My Esoteric 4 years ago from Keystone Heights, FL

Very true, Charles.


Jillian Barclay profile image

Jillian Barclay 4 years ago from California, USA

First, let me apologize for reading this so late! This is an excellent piece of writing and your analysis is right on, as usual!

One suggestion- Please don't give the GOP such great ideas on how they can improve- if they take your advice, they might actually become a big tent political party...


My Esoteric profile image

My Esoteric 4 years ago from Keystone Heights, FL

I think, for the GOP to return to a party of inclusiveness which is once was in the 60s - 80s, it will take many major defeats in the Republican primaries of the current hard Right and Tea Party Congress men and women. It simply isn't in the genes of the current set of conservatives to ever be inclusive; their philosophical make-up prohibits it.


Credence2 profile image

Credence2 3 years ago from Florida (Space Coast) Author

FS, sorry for the delay getting back to you. So, if I were a female, I wouldn't want rightwing moral hypocrites telling me what to do with my body and by extention my options within the society. Obviously you were in love with Herbert Hoover and the unsustainable economic climate that existed prior to the "New Deal". Fortunately for me, these retrograde, revisionist views are held by a fanatic minority who will never be in a position to change the status quo. What percent of the country's total wealth is in the hands of the this 'ten percent'? We are not France, Greece, but I do not want to become a gulag because the rightwinger is more than happy to allow Thurston Howell free rein over everything without restraint. While you accuse the left of being emotional, I accuse the right of rabid fanatical behavior that is put down by the vast majority of the population, how do you reconcile that?

The title of the article is how the GOP can rebound, sour grapes are not going to change the nature of the challenge for the retro right. You guys have better figure out how you are going to get back on the road because right now you are derailed. There are more that agree with us than agree with you, and you are nowhere near a resolution as to how you are going to change that. Thanks for your imput


Credence2 profile image

Credence2 3 years ago from Florida (Space Coast) Author

Borsia, thanks for dropping by and weighing in, hope that all is well in your new home.


Credence2 profile image

Credence2 3 years ago from Florida (Space Coast) Author

My Esoteric, thank you for honoring me with your attention and comment. Thanks for the tip I will attend to it ASAP


Credence2 profile image

Credence2 3 years ago from Florida (Space Coast) Author

Jillian, so kind of you to drop in forgive me for not getting to my commenters sooner. Praise from a master is always most gratifying! Don't worry, these guys are not smart enough nor humble enough to really accept the idea that they are off course, let alone craft solutions.


druhepkins 3 years ago

As you mentioned, we do share similar sentiments in both of our hubs. Perhaps most important to the party that we both agree on, is the removal of the loony extremist that seem to be in the forefront of the party. They've alienated everyone in between. They've be wrong and uncompromising on all the issues and the party needs to restructure it's leadership, representation and plan for the future in an evolving society.

Good hub!


Credence2 profile image

Credence2 3 years ago from Florida (Space Coast) Author

Greetings, Druhepkins, thanks for reading and I hope that enjoyed it. The arrogance of the GOP in thinking that they could win the election based on appealing to limited demographic groups is a 20th century concept, at least here in America anyway. I suspect there are serious growing pains necessary to attract those that they have in principle spent so much time repelling.

Happy Holidays


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 3 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio

This is a very good hub. The GOP is so unliked now that it is amazing. They are basically doing nothing. They do go to work, but do not vote on anything. They go against everything the President has tried to do. Nothing can be done, because they never do anything. All of them should be voted out or fired. They have not worked for a very long time.


Credence2 profile image

Credence2 3 years ago from Florida (Space Coast) Author

Hi, Michele thanks for reading and commenting.

The GOP continues to make the same mistakes heading down the road to extinction. Unfortunately, we are stuck with the GOP jerks in the House of Reps that are still far too influencial as an impediment to progress and who despises Obama, going far beyond mere political differences. We can only hope that in 2014 we can clean the rest of the rubbish in the GOP dominated House and finally get moving forward.

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