Rigged Election? Voting in America

Rigged? Yeah, afraid so. This article was originally written during the 2012 presidential election cycle. So much has happened since then. And the corruption witnessed during 2012 made it clear that both parties are corrupt at the top. Other sources have shown that voting itself may be a useless activity simply because electronic voting machines are vulnerable to hacking and the corporations who manufacture them are part of the Corporate Party problem. I love my country and fellow citizens. I love my fellow humans, but voting is not going to solve anything. When the votes are counted by corrupt people, any political effort is like attempting to move a mountain with a light breeze. So, if we need solutions, we need to find them elsewhere.
___________________________

Updates:

  • 2012:0319 — Recent media coverage has prompted me to update this. See "Media Updates," below.
  • 2012:0324 — A recent YouTube video shows how easy it is in Minnesota to commit voter fraud. Ouch! See new, "Ease of Voter Fraud" section, below.
  • 2012:0326 — Two new YouTube videos show how GOP leadership in two states (Missouri and Georgia) are ignoring the rules and the law to decide, without voter input, who the delegates should be. See new, "GOP Voter Fraud" section, below.
  • 2012:0405 — Another YouTube video includes an interview with Edward True who discovered a major discrepancy in his precinct's votes and had the guts to stand up to the state GOP leaders who wanted to hide the problem. See the end of the section, "America's Problems."
  • 2012:0911 — Two recent videos about the shenanigans at both Republicrat and Demopublican Conventions. At both of these events, the rules of order were not followed. Instead of votes by the assembly, it was rule by script. Oh, how far America has fallen. The Republic had fallen into the disdainful ruse of "Democracy," but even that lie has been subverted. Look for the section, Party Convention Madness.
  • 2016:0221 — Updated the introduction to this article.

___________________________

Flag of the new United Socialist States Republic (USSR) of America. Could it be happening to voting in America? The signs are clear. We're becoming socialistic and we already have two Communist Manifesto planks in place. Copyright Rod Martin, Jr.
Flag of the new United Socialist States Republic (USSR) of America. Could it be happening to voting in America? The signs are clear. We're becoming socialistic and we already have two Communist Manifesto planks in place. Copyright Rod Martin, Jr.

Is it possible? Could it happen? Has it already happened? Remember the hanging chads in Florida? Why all the confusion? If we can send a man to the Moon, why not hold an election without such incredible hiccups? Has voting in America resulted in any rigged elections? While individual voting fraud appears to be rare according to election officials, could the system itself be fraudulent?

Official portrait of Vladimir Putin, President of Russia. Are we experiencing irregularities with voting in America similar to those supposedly occurring in Russia.
Official portrait of Vladimir Putin, President of Russia. Are we experiencing irregularities with voting in America similar to those supposedly occurring in Russia. | Source

Russia’s Problems

Watchdog agencies are crying "foul" over the recent elections in Russia. Election fraud and tampering.

People are protesting and foreign observers were sounding alarms.

Russia's vote monitor (Golos) said in a recent statement, "The Russian elections were neither free nor fair and were not in line with the demands of Russian law and international electoral standards."

The international Office for Democratic Institutions and Human Rights (ODIHR) noted procedural irregularities in almost one-third of the polling stations.

If irregularities are occurring in Russia, could it be Vladimir Putin behind them, or could it be someone in the West pulling strings? It wouldn't be the first time that the West attempted to influence the direction of Russian politics.

Stealing Elections: How Voter Fraud Threatens Our Democracy
Stealing Elections: How Voter Fraud Threatens Our Democracy

A chilling portrait of electoral vulnerability by a member of the Wall Street Journal's editorial board.

 
The Myth of Voter Fraud
The Myth of Voter Fraud

And the opposing view that votes are not being stolen.

 
End the Fed
End the Fed

If election rigging is happening, then this is one very good reason why the Rockefellers would want to keep Ron Paul out of the White House.

 

America's Problems

Election fraud in America? Impossible?

One Iowa caucus worker, Edward L. True, posted an affidavit online when he found irregularities in his precinct—irregularities that the higher-ups said would be handled, but weren't. Oops!

Shortly after the caucus results pointed to Romney as the winner by a small handful of votes, Edward L. True filed a notarized statement claiming Santorum is the real winner and that there was an error in the caucus results from Appanoose County. The video below includes an interview with Mr. True about this discrepancy.

According to True, the number of votes Romney received from Washington Wells Precinct were inflated by 20 when recorded by the state GOP.

True, who said he hopes the discrepancy is a simple mistake, reportedly helped count the votes and kept a record of the outcome to post to Ron Paul Facebook pages. He said he noticed the error when he looked at the state GOP website.

http://iowacaucus.com/2012/01/05/paul-supporter-claims-vote-romney-victory-in-iowa-precinct-caucuses-based-on-error-in-vote-report/

See the actual affidavit at:

http://watchthevote2012.com/AffidavitTrue.htm

[video, below, added 2012:0405; updated 2012:0711; and now no longer available at 2014:0607]

https://youtube.com/watch?v=KLRMxSwqgvo

Check out the Washington state caucus at,

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/03/washington-caucus-results-2012_n_1316394.html

Check out Thurston County which includes Olympia.

Washington State Results

One YouTube video shows votes being tallied in Thurston County (southwest of Seattle) with an overwhelming majority for Ron Paul.

According to the final results, Romney beat Paul 485 to 317 votes. The video tally is only a partial and early count, so things could well have changed after that with a late rush for Romney.

But with everything else that's happening, one starts to wonder.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=2R6k8cMoejk

(Regrettably, the video is no longer available—2012:0319.)

Check out the Iowa caucus map at,

http://iowacaucus.com/results/ [link no longer active]

Iowa caucus results in some counties show razor-thin margins between the top two, like Santorum 3 points ahead of Paul in Wapello County (Southeast Iowa).

Iowa Revisited and New Hampshire Results

Michael Rivero, in a recent YouTube video makes several claims regarding voting irregularities (see video, below).

According to Rivero, New Hampshire waived the requirement to show ID and was subsequently caught handing out ballots in the names of dead people. Again, oops!

In Iowa, the results from 8 precincts have gone missing. Investigations into what happened turned up mistakes in 131 precincts—as much as 50 votes in a single precinct—potentially thousands of votes missing.

In some counties Santorum beat Ron Paul by a handful of votes—2, 3, 10, 15, 16, 17, 21, 26, 28, 35... individual votes. That's a razor thin margin for there to be discrepancies in 131 precincts! If a county was won by Santorum by 2 votes, and votes were inflated by election workers or officials, they would not have had to inflate them by much. And, as Edward L. True found, his precinct of his county had Romney's numbers inflated by 20. Makes me wonder who really won.

Check it out for yourself at http://iowacaucus.com/results/.

Did the Republican leadership really decide to split Iowa between Romney (25%) and Santorum (25%), excluding Ron Paul (21%)? Very curious, indeed.

Did Bush really win Florida with all those hanging chads?

Michigan Observations

Several commenters on a late February blog gave anecdotal evidence of Ron Paul support in Michigan. While not scientific or thorough, these statements make one wonder if voting irregularities might exist in Michigan, too.

Web Archive: Ron Paul as Michigan Spoiler

"I live in Michigan. The only signs in people’s yards are signs for Ron Paul. At the local Republican Meetings the majority of the members are Ron Paul supporters. Mainstream media is owned and run by the ultra wealthy, and stand to gain nothing when Ron Paul is elected. At Central Michigan University, over 2,000 people showed up, CMU only holds about 1,200 people...." CC, February 27th, 2012, 12:34 am

"CC in Michigan is absolutely right—the only support signs out are for Ron Paul. People from all walks of life are supporting him. The amount of people I know who are supporting anyone else is 0. I have at least 25 close friends who are voting for him tomorrow and each of them have the same. Add it up. If he does not win in Michigan it is absolutely rigged. People from other countries are chiming in and expressing the importance of electing Ron Paul. This is our only hope to save the free America! My husband is Jack Roush Jr. of Roush Industries and we support and endorse RON PAUL! Get out and make your vote count for freedom! I will write him in even if he is not elected. I can not in good faith vote for anyone but the best man." Laura Roush, February 27th, 2012, 8:18 am

"I live in west michigan. Only Ron Paul signs around here. And when I talk to people, Ron Paul is who they will be voting for tomorrow, the vast majority anyway. The polls are not accurate, and I feed [feel?] neither will be the vote count." Curtis, February 27th, 2012, 10:04 pm

It's quite possible that non-Ron Paul supporters simply do not post signs in their yards. And it's also possible that birds-of-a-feather flock together, making their observations of friends and family a limiting view of voter cross-section.

Mainstream Media (MSM)

If you owned a newspaper and the guy running for president was going to cost you millions, would you bias the news against him? Would you downplay his chances? Would you attempt to protect your business? What if you and your friends owned all of the mainstream media and a presidential candidate was going to cost you trillions of dollars? You see, all tax dollars go to the Federal Reserve—a privately held bank. Imagine that! If you pay your taxes with a check, it comes back with "FRS" stamped on the back—Federal Reserve System. "Federal," but it's not! "Reserve," because it sounds friendly. "System," because it adds an impression of strength and stability. "Bank" is left out, because a central "bank" was unpopular with past presidents and congresses.

December, 2011: "During this time Paul supporters asserted that he was continually ignored by the media despite his significant support, citing examples of where television news shows would fail to mention Paul in discussions of the republican presidential hopefuls even when he was polling second." (Wikipedia)

I've heard it myself. Corporate media continues to paint Ron Paul negatively, using such verbiage as "long-shot," "racist," "lunatic" and "unelectable."

  • long shot—only if you buy into their negative assertions.
  • racist—Wow! I suppose the media thinks this will work against anyone.
  • lunatic—Equally baseless. Name calling is pretty low tactics. Since when is following the law of the land "lunatic?" Like George Orwell's "1984," this must be the Newspeak in action.
  • unelectable—Because he's not "pretty" like Romney? Or a silver-tongued devil like Obama? The real truth seems to be that anyone who doesn't tow the agenda of the super rich (bankers, military-industrial complex, etc) is undesirable in their greedy eyes.

Media Updates

[section added 2012:0319]

In a Huffington Post article from March 15, 2012, "Rick Santorum, Ron Paul On Track To Get Most Of Iowa's Delegates," we find out that Romney may be left out in the cold, despite his initial, caucus-day "win."

According to the article, "The AP numbers give former Sen. Santorum (R-Pa.) 13 delegates and former Massachusetts Gov. Romney 12. But Iowa Republican operatives scoffed at the AP figure."

One of Iowa's three members of the Republican National Committee, Steve Scheffler, said, "...they don't know what they're talking about."

According to current Iowa caucus tallies, both Santorum and Romney both received about 29,000 votes each, while Paul trailed by only about 3,000 votes (~26,000). But delegates are not tied to the "straw poll" vote in the caucus. In essence, the caucus voting was more fluff and hot air than meat and substance. It's the delegates that count.

So, what was the Associated Press thinking? Ron Paul gets 31% of the vote and gets zero delegates? Media bias? Santorum and Romney each get 34.5% and edge Paul out? Could it be that either AP isn't that bright, or they have a not-so-hidden agenda in erasing the appearance that Paul has a chance? It will be interesting to see how this drama continues to play out in the media.

Voting in America: I supported this guy last time around. He had his chance and he blew it. President Obama official White House photo (PD-US).
Voting in America: I supported this guy last time around. He had his chance and he blew it. President Obama official White House photo (PD-US). | Source

More Problems in America

Libya's Gaddafi may not have been the most pleasant individual in the world, but he was far from a Saddam Hussein. More importantly, he was about to launch his own national currency based upon gold. And he was going to spread his idea throughout Africa. You can bet the Rothschild bankers were not pleased with this.

How much does it cost to hire some mercenaries to pretend to be a Libyan liberation movement? And does it cost anything to coax America to flex its muscle and to attack Libya? Actually, it makes you more money, because one of your subsidiaries makes the weapons used by the US military.

Does anyone else think it's insane that America is racking up tons of debt and accelerating toward fiscal oblivion? Why are we doing it? And do you buy the hype coming out of Washington?

The real reason why America would be racking up skyrocketing debt is because a very influential few are getting even more filthy rich off of debt. Who? The owners of the Federal Reserve "private" bank, that's who.

Voting in America: Congressional portrait of Dr. Ron Paul (R) Texas.
Voting in America: Congressional portrait of Dr. Ron Paul (R) Texas. | Source

Solution?

If America was an individual, they might be thrown in jail for the kinds of reckless fiscal shenanigans in which they've been involved.

Imagine making $120,000 per year, spending $350,000 per year, holding a debt of $15,000,000, and paying down that debt at $20,000 per year. What's the minimum monthly payment on your credit card? If you owned $15,000,000, your monthly minimum payment would be more like $300,000 and the yearly payments would be more like $3,600,000 (instead of a paltry $20,000). Why this level of fiscal insanity?

This insanity persists, because someone is making money off of all that public debt. Someone is getting criminally filthy rich on the backs of all Americans and jeopardizing the future security of the nation. They don't care about the nation or its lowly citizens. They don't care who they hurt or destroy. If we get rid of the Federal Reserve, we hit them in their pocketbook.

Voting in America: Dr. Ron Paul on the campaign trail as a presidential candidate.
Voting in America: Dr. Ron Paul on the campaign trail as a presidential candidate. | Source

The last two times we shrugged off the yoke of a central bank (early 1800's), we had big problems stirred up as a result. The agents of the bankers are very convincing about the supposed need of their central bank. The bankers really do want us to become attached to their parasite. They start wars over such things. Could they have been behind the presidential assassinations? Where that much money and that much disregard for human life are involved, why not? The man who attempted to assassinate President Andrew Jackson made it clear that he thought money would be far more abundant with Jackson out of the way. You see, Jackson vowed to foil the European bankers in their attempt to have America stay hooked up to their central bank.

Let's be clear. Being super-rich is not in and of itself bad. It's what you do with that prosperity and power that defines you. If you help the needy anonymously and build institutions which help humanity rather than milk humanity through pain and suffering, then you could be viewed as a good person. If instead, you flaunt your donations and create organizations which do great harm to humanity all for selfish benefit, then you are more likely evil incarnate.

Ron Paul wants to change all that. He wants to have America regain its sanity and return to its roots—the Constitution. There's a whole lot of sanity there at which the super-rich have been chipping away.

Balance the budget, eliminate the Fed, eliminate income tax, maintain social security until we can find a better solution, no more war mongering—these are all good things.

Who is Going to Win the Presidential Election in 2012?

If elections are being rigged, can such rigging persist if support is overwhelmingly in favor of an undesirable candidate? And I say "undesirable" to the powers that be who might be behind the supposed rigging. I think Ron Paul still has a good shot at it if people would stop listening to the naysayers and simply vote their conscience. But that conscience needs to be aware of the current dangers and not swayed by any normalcy bias that tempts them to think that everything is hunky dory.

My conscience says to vote for someone who has a solid background (not a flip-flop record). Vote for someone who wants real change for America to pull back from the brink of oblivion. Yes, oblivion! If I saw someone on the kind of spending spree America is on, I would speak up and tell them to stop their madness. If I saw someone bullying others and taking over their property illegally, I'd call the cops. But who are we going to call in on America and its recklessness. Ron Paul, that's who—him and the constitution.

Ron Paul is going to win in 2012, or we may not have an America a decade from now. I'm not sorry to be so alarmist. The alarm needs to be sounded, loud and clear.

The Ease of Voter Fraud in Minnesota

Ease of Voter Fraud

[section and video added 2012:0324]

In the above video, "Registering Tim Tebow and Tom Brady to Vote in Minnesota," we see just how easy it is to commit multiple instances of voting fraud in that state.

And they investigate and prosecute after the fact. But what if the name, SSN, address, etc. are all fake, then who do they prosecute?

And if the election is over and a president has been chosen, they're not going to re-do the election. Just like the WMD's in Iraq. Oops! We're already here, so no turning back. Where's the logic in that? If a president gets elected by a thin margin and the number of fraudulent votes are larger than that margin, then I guess we're all up the creek without a paddle.

If you're driving along and argue with your wife that you are headed in the right direction, but find yourself going over a cliff, would you say, "Oops! We're already committed, so no turning back?" There are a few of the very powerful who might hope for just that kind of blindness. Look what happened in Iraq. Look what happened when the Patriot Act eroded our liberties. Look what happened when last January's NDAA (2012) was signed into law by the silver-tongued devil himself.

Incredible Loophole You Could Drive a Truck Through

Scenario:

Rockefellers and their chums are making trillions of dollars off of their private "Federal Reserve" bank. Do you think they might want to protect that cash cow parasite? Of course they would. They don't want Dr. Ron Paul to become president and pull the plug on that money-making venture. How much would it cost to have forms printed up for all 50 states. How much would it cost to have a group of overseas workers fill in the forms from a computer-generated list of fake names, duplicate SSNs, and real (somebody else's) addresses?

For someone for whom $100/month is adequate to take care of their family, if they receive $1000 for a month's work, they would be thrilled to fill out some pesky papers. Look at all of the people working online doing "gray" employment work -- like spun articles (garbage writing for the explicit purpose of boosting SEO ratings). I did this for awhile, until I realized the overall implications.

If one person can fill out one set of forms in 10 minutes, then they could produce more than a thousand applications a month. And they would be thrilled to do the work.

If you have a thousand people produce filled-out forms for 3 months, you have 3 million fake votes. How much would it cost? $3 million! That's nothing to someone who makes trillions.

By comparison, how much would you be out if you spent the same proportional amount of your income? Imagine you make $100,000 per year. You might end up paying $0.10 (one thin dime) of your gross income for your batch of voter fraud—less than pocket change to sway an election.

When the names are investigated, no one is arrested because the necessary safeguards (proper identification) were not in place.

GOP Voter Fraud

[section and two videos added 2012:0326]

Below are two videos which show how brazenly GOP party leaders have become in deciding for us poor voters the way things should be. Ignoring the rules, the votes and the law, they've become increasingly more outrageous to ensure that the "proper" candidate gets the nomination. What has America come to? Home of the cowards? Land of the puppets and liars? We need to do something (peaceful) about this!

First Video — St. Charles, MO

In St. Charles, Missouri, delegate selection attendees attempted to hold their own selection process in the school parking lot after the previous meeting had been co-opted without attendee votes and against the protests of nearly everyone in attendance. The temporary chairman walked out without the required 2/3 vote for adjournment.

Police arrested the new acting chairman in the parking lot. But on what charge? Only later did he find out. Trespassing! The GOP had previously arranged to use the high school and by party rules this majority of attendees were acting by the rules regarding the chair walking out (vacating).

If the leader of this group of attendees was arrested for trespassing (which was a false arrest), then why weren't the other attendees arrested? Obviously, someone in the GOP is doing everything illegal thing they can to control the process.

Second Video — Athens, Clarke County, GA

The chairman reads a list of nominations and accepts the list after a quick voice vote. People from the audience yell "no" and "division" because they reject the acceptance. By Roberts Rules of Order, "division" means a more precise count of votes. But the chairman rejects this rule and rejects the voters and their attempt to clarify the vote and ends the meeting.

Members of the caucus have their own meeting and this time follow the rules and send their results to the GOP state headquarters. And they've contacted a lawyer to make it stick. Apparently, a similar thing happened in Fulton and Carroll Counties.

Party Convention Madness

[section and videos added 2012:0911]

Don't be fooled like the Germans 80 years ago. Wake up and look at the patterns of our government actions. Eleven years ago, on 9/11, someone in government and/or in the private sector (power elite), created their own "Reichstag fire" and blamed it on Al Qaeda. That led to trashing the Constitution (just like the Nazis did). And that led to wars to "protect" Homeland Security, just as with Hitler and his movement.

The videos below show how our political system has degraded to the point that the two main conventions have been reduced to a sham. Voting no longer matters. Both parties no longer follow their own rules or Roberts Rules of Order. The "nays" can be overwhelming, but still the "ayes" will have it because it's in the script.

The Corporate Party keeps the illusion of choice alive. But why? So, the ones behind the scenes can finish dismantling America. A New World Order cannot exist with sovereign nation states.

RNC Scripted

DNC Scripted

What Can We Do?

Go with the attitude of turning the other cheek. Go not in righteous indignation for there is nothing righteous about such attitude. Go as a teacher and with love. Teach them that they may see their crimes and be ashamed. Use the old writer's maxim: show, don't tell. And if you understand, imply, don't show. The power of implication is to befuddle the dim and enlighten the bright. Even the GOP can be saved from itself and America from herself.

More by this Author


Comments 21 comments

WD Curry 111 profile image

WD Curry 111 4 years ago from Space Coast

I checked funny too. I got a chuckle when you compared government behavior to that of an individual. The thing is . . . there are many individuals who run along like that somehow. It is a lifestyle in Florida.

Anyway, I like Buddy Roemer who has about as much chance as I do. I like the fact that his little bank in Louisiana is holding its own, even with Geithner after it.


lone77star profile image

lone77star 4 years ago from Cebu, Philippines Author

I understand, WD, about Florida's fiscal environment. Funny, but also a bit sad (ironic).

Buddy Roemer looks interesting, far more than Romney, Santorum and Gingrich.

If Dr. Paul wins his party's nomination, I wouldn't want him choosing any of the current GOP field as VP running mate. Roemer would get my vote.


ImKarn23 profile image

ImKarn23 4 years ago

Great hub! I compared politicians to 6 year olds on school playgrounds - but - your analogy works just as well! The entire political scene today is not only sad - it's almost surreal! I don't want any of these guys running the country - or playing second fiddle to it! AND - i don't want obama either! What to do...what to do...VOTEUP - that's what i'll do! Come by and visit sometime..i'll put coffee on!


lone77star profile image

lone77star 4 years ago from Cebu, Philippines Author

Thanks, @ImKarn23. I appreciate your input. Coffee sounds good, too.

I think only one candidate stands out -- Ron Paul. He's not perfect; he doesn't have Obama's silver tongue, or Romney's Hollywood good looks (as if those were ever qualifications). But he does have integrity, consistency, and an adherence to the Constitution.


True Cures profile image

True Cures 4 years ago from Payette Idaho

I'm certain Ron Paul wouldn't win if he received every vote in every state. I go along with the title of this hub, elections are rigged. They have to be otherwise we would have assassinations again causing us to appear uncivil and rogue as a country.

Our government is a government for the the government so we will never see a righteous election. If Ron Paul is truly sincere it would cost our government and the uber wealthy in charge of it dearly.

Every nickle or dime of relief we the people get is a nickle or dime those who run this country for their own personal gain lose and that will never happen.

I created a hub about why voting is destroying us and guess I didn't leave much room for debate or discussion. Voting is a tool used to control the people. Unfortunately I have no suggestions on how to remedy the problem short of a complete restructure with extremely stiff penalties for government corruption or personal gain.

We are screwed. :(


lone77star profile image

lone77star 4 years ago from Cebu, Philippines Author

@True Cures, you give some interesting ideas, but I disagree with the idea that we're screwed. There are always things we can do. Perhaps the most potent is that of prayer. And there's a correct way to pray, too.

I've added a new section. Voter fraud is so easy in Minnesota. I wonder how it stacks up in other states.

Assassinations and rigged elections may be part of the arsenal used by the super rich, but there are still some things we can do as citizens. At the very least, we should do whatever we can to help our fellow humans before the storm hits. Many won't survive. But that shouldn't stop us from doing everything we can to forestall the coming tragedies and to help others prepare. Ron Paul as president could help accomplish that, but it won't be able to stop it.

There is a reason God is allowing this tragedy to happen. God created His children in His own image and likeness and that is not Homo sapiens. There is something far bigger at stake than this planet and its dominant species.


True Cures profile image

True Cures 4 years ago from Payette Idaho

Based on the bible I'm sure you are right. We are told to be in the world but not of the world, I can sure see the wisdom in that.

I don't see Christians changing the world through politics but like you said, changing through one person at a time. If it were not for the price of gas and having to listen to all my friend who blindly remain loyal to political parties I would be troubled at all about what the world does.

It pains me to see so many people relying on the world to make their lives better. It pains me to see the contention political beliefs and views bring to those who are struggling. The voting process gives people a misplaced hope which is the clear intent because as long as people have hope they will put up with the suffering.

I believe the government will lose all control if people stop the charade and stop participating in worldly affair of voting. We have to render unto Caesar what is Caesar's but I have seen no biblical reasoning for voting for Caesar.

I'm with you and ready for God's hand to take over.


lone77star profile image

lone77star 4 years ago from Cebu, Philippines Author

@True Cures, you make a logical and impassioned case for your viewpoint. Certainly, I would not vote for Obama, seeing what he has done, nor would I vote for the other Republican candidates, seeing their flip-flop records and anti-Constitutional viewpoints on unPatriot Act and NDAA.

But a vote for Ron Paul is not a vote for Caesar. It's a vote for someone who cares and who wants to help those who are suffering. Certainly, we need to let go of the things of this world, but we can still be in this world and help those who are suffering.

We must not forget our compassion. A vote for Ron Paul is a vote for compassion, as far as I can see. And thus it would be a worthy effort. It won't block the tragedy to come, but it might hold it off so we can help our fellows; God is planning on that tragedy happening. But we can do everything we can to help others prepare. Electing Ron Paul is consistent with that effort.


True Cures profile image

True Cures 4 years ago from Payette Idaho

It's rough and I hate to dampen any ones enthusiasm or hope but it must be if we are ever to see improvements.

The best any president or candidate can do is look good. Ron Paul looks good but that's all he's got. That's all he is allowed and all he is personally capable of.

The reason you and I can tell Ron Paul is of the world as well as in the world is easy, Ron can no longer discern the truth any more than anyone else.

A vote for Ron Paul is a vote and approval for the ways of the world. Granted it might seem Ron Paul righteous but he isn't he is simply the lessor of evils which is not a rational reason to vote for him though it is the reason many will vote for him.

Ron Paul has no more ability to discern the truth than anyone partaking of the ways of the world which is pretty much all of society. It's pitiful man has forsaken God for the ways of the world. God has so much more to offer.

I understand Ron Paul was a doctor or is a doctor still however it can only mean one of two things, either Ron Paul has NO ability to discern or know the Truth or Light or Ron Paul doesn't care for the Truth or Light. By Truth or Light I mean truth which biblically speaking is indeed God. Very few people have the Truth and Light in their lives. Had Ron Paul had them he wouldn't have been a doctor he would have been a healer and by healer it wouldn't be spiritual healing it would be scientific healing.

I guess what I am saying is, there is no biblical justification for voting, not even for Ron Paul the lessor of evils.

The problem is, there is no money in righteousness.

I would love to see changes come about, the changes Ron Paul claims to seek but I would be a Biblical fool to believe a worldly man could bring about righteous change. I would be just a plain fool to think our Government would allow Ron Paul to make any changes.

It's a sorry world we live in. Politicians are ONLY going to get worse or the bible is false. There is no biblical reason to vote and voting only succeeds in separating man from God. This is going to be a harsh statement but a true statement, a person who believes in voting will never know the Light and the Truth because they will never have to.

Ron Paul could have been curing cancer and diabetes his whole career if he had any Truth or Light in him. A vote for him even if he is the least evil candidate is participating in the ways of the world, ways Christians are commanded to avoid.

If I was a worldly person and voted I would vote for Ron Paul. He is clearly the lessor of evils. However I will not vote because I will not vote for anything less than the Truth and the Light.


lone77star profile image

lone77star 4 years ago from Cebu, Philippines Author

Hello @True Cures, and thanks for a wonderful dissertation. I agree with most of it.

Dr. Paul has delivered over 4000 babies and that seems an honorable thing for a doctor to do. Certainly healing through the Holy Spirit is far superior.

As far as commanding Christians to avoid ways of the world, I disagree with the scope you used to interpret scripture. I could be wrong, but the Nazarene teacher said to render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's. Paying taxes is a worldly activity. You don't have to be "of the world" to participate in such things.

My take on it is that Christ was talking about attachments to the things of this world -- holding such things as important (a selfish, egotistical viewpoint).

But hey, I'm still learning.

Bless you, my friend. We won't have voting around much longer, anyway. The signs are pointing to the rapidly coming Kingdom of God.


True Cures profile image

True Cures 4 years ago from Payette Idaho

We agree we must pay taxes but the Nazarene teacher never said we had to vote for Caesar. A vote is a stamp of approval, worldly approval.

I could be wrong but I don't recall any scripture that suggested disciples of Christ seek worldly offices.

Dr. Paul could be a very righteous person but if he finds a place in politics he will be part of a bad tree that produces bad fruit.

Because of Dr. Paul's age maybe he didn't send the parent of the 4000 babies into debt. Now days a doctor delivering a baby put's parents into serious debt. Complications during birth comes primarily from lack of proper judgment. Lock an expecting mother in a room by herself and eventually she will have a child without any modern technology or help, it can't be avoided.

In reality, Dr. Paul only delivered babies if a c-section was required, all the others he just caught the babies. I'm trained to catch babies myself in emergency situations, and that is what we were told it was.

It's bad world we live in where we take the most natural things and turn them into a billion dollar industry. mammon controls medicine, not God.

Ron Paul is probably a great guy as far as people of the world go, but I see no biblical justification for voting for him. I see no biblical reason to expect a genuine Christian would be able to change the ways of the world. If Ron Paul served God instead of mammon I'm sure he would agree with me.

I sure hope you are right about not having the voting system around much longer. I have a lot of knowledge and Truth that is absolutely useless in these times. Suffering is a key component of capitalism and politics and anything that ends suffering is shunned by both church and government.

I fight my ego all the time. Mostly because I don't have anyone else to fight. I feel Adam and Eve were given all they needed to survive with peace of mind. I know first hand that we are created to be healthy and immune to disease which is supported by the bible but I have never found another person who has the same knowledge. Unfortunately for Dr. Paul it will be easier to get a camel through an eye of a needle than for him to get in heaven.

I'm still learning too. I'm trying to find my place in a world that has no use for me.

Thank you for the blessing.

David


lone77star profile image

lone77star 4 years ago from Cebu, Philippines Author

David, a most pleasurable read. I keep learning from conversations like this.

I have to say I don't think anyone would ever have condoned "voting" for a Caesar, seeing the nature of that worldly "office." Those were typically taken by hereditary process or by force. Those that were voted into office had only the Senate to look to.

But our master did say that we should help people. That's compassion. Will it help millions of people if the beast of mammon (Rockefellers and Rothschilds) is slowed down by a few months or years? I think so. That's all I'm asking. The more time we can ask for and be allowed, the more people we can help prepare for what is to come. If 6 billion people die in the coming storm, I'd like to have a few of them prepared for the next spiritual step.

I'm not sure if Dr. Paul serves mammon. He has given away his services to those who couldn't afford them. He has refused to take the congressional pension and he doesn't seem to be the kind of person who would take the perks of lobbyists. He stands up against the "reactionary" congressmen (and reaction is a function of ego and its lust for importances). He does what is seemingly unpopular. I don't agree with everything he says, but I'd trust him as president a lot more than anyone else on that playing field. And God and Israel did have King David. That king's love of God and righteousness were the kind of compassion that helped his people thrive and prosper. That was a valuable service and God rewarded him for it.

I don't know Dr. Paul. He certainly seems far better than the rest of the candidates. Where the others try to spin their flip-flop record, Dr. Paul has nothing to spin; he has remained consistently a Constitutionalist. Though no system created by man will suffice, I think that one was the most compassionate.

And I think compassion is a good thing.

Carl


True Cures profile image

True Cures 4 years ago from Payette Idaho

I know what you mean and it tears me up to know that if Dr. Paul (and we should drop the title and call him brother Paul) is truly striving to be righteous and for the people he will stand no chance of being elected.

The election process is a worldly process, nothing less.

Brother Paul will not have a chance of being elected unless he already has his secret pact made. Mammon will always run the world and if mammon has to do a recount in an election to get the numbers to line up to see to it that a worldly candidate is elected they will have no problem rigging an election. It is better than the alternative which would be assassination.

Brother Paul doesn't stand a chance as a righteous man. He could do more for man if he just took up writing articles on hubpage than he could do as President.

I started a new hub on whether or not "real" Christians should vote. It's stirring up emotions but so far no one has really come up with justification for voting.

I agree that Caesar wasn't voted in, but it is still difficult for me to find any biblical justification for a righteous or a want to be righteous person to vote.

I feel like things are only going to get worse and as long as self proclaimed Christians continue to vote the less prepared they will be for the end. The bible says many Christians or even most Christians will be burned as stubble in the end. That's most likely going to be due to the fact that very few Christians have the ability to discern the Truth and the Light.

They can't discern Truths because they want to believe in the voting process and politics, they want to believe a bad tree can produce good fruit. They want to believe doctors and doctor titles are of God. They want to believe in technology and pleasures of the flesh. All they are succeeding in doing is diluting the Word of God until a rational person can no longer believe in it.

I have a feeling the only people not burned as stubble will be people who do not have an opinion of God or Christ. People who have been protected from worldly christians who lead the littlest astray.

If we are to save anyone in these trying times we need to bring more Truth and Light to Christianity, something that appears to be missing entirely today. I don't think an worldly elected official will be the answer.

Though I have a lot of contention in my life, I am truly blessed with the ability to discern the Truth in many things. I'm blessed with the willingness to consider just how corrupt our political government can be and will be. Our government is 100% corrupt today and no one is going to change it without fire.

How do we all get out of the burning stubble?


lone77star profile image

lone77star 4 years ago from Cebu, Philippines Author

David, some beautiful words. Thank you!

Could any physical activity be a worldly process? Eating, breathing? And yet our master and his disciples gathered kernels of wheat on the Sabbath to sustain their bodies. Those who saw them, condemned them for doing "work" on the Sabbath. But Yehoshua cautioned that the Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath.

Our Lord, the Father in heaven, gave his son, King David, great wealth and prosperity. He gave him the kingship. Is kingship a worldly position?

Would compassion be justification enough for voting?

And the worldliness of "voting" and numbers can become confounded by the power of God.

If someone suffers, should we do nothing and rely on God to fix it all? If someone is in pain or ill, why be concerned at all with their physical well-being? Isn't their physical body merely and only a worldly vessel?

Did shepherd David have a chance against Goliath?

I understand what you mean when most Christians cannot tell the light from the dark. I'm still learning, myself.

And I understand what you mean by believing in a physical process (the realm of continuity), rather than the power of God (the realm of discontinuity).

Could it be that even "reason" is tainted? That all rationality is suspect? After all, those who hold a grudge utilize great logic to sustain their resentment.

I understand what you mean when you say that an elected official will not be _the_ answer. Could it be that helping to heal the sick of their physical ailment is not _the_ answer, either?

But, again, I ask, is compassion valuable? And could it be compassionate to have more time to teach our brothers and sisters how to tell the difference between darkness and the light? If more time is possible, but only if we ask, would it be less than compassionate not to ask? Any physical act we do in this world can be done from a viewpoint of separateness from God or from a viewpoint of oneness with God.

You say that brother Paul has no chance of winning. Perhaps by all that is based upon continuity, yes; he may well have no "earthly" chance of winning. But isn't that what we're talking about? A non-earthly chance?

And if a non-earthly (discontinuous; divine) chance is all that is needed, then why would anyone need to vote? Why would shepherd David need to use his sling? Why would anyone ever want to heal someone's crippled or diseased body? Again, could compassion be reason enough?

Carl


True Cures profile image

True Cures 4 years ago from Payette Idaho

It's a tough one, maybe compassion would be reason enough if it were not for capitalism. It is pretty common today to put a price tag on compassion and to artificially extend the need for compassion.

As for King David's wealth, that was before Christ and the New Testament. It was before turn the other cheek and before it was said it would be easier to get a camel through an eye of a needle than a rich man into heaven.

To me is seems 'reason' is enough, more so than compassion or capitalism. How could there be a place in heaven or at the right hand of God for a rich person while the most humble and meek are starving?

I don't understand it either. All I know is I feel I have never met a "real" Christian in my entire life. I have never met you Carl and I will admit you do behave differently than most. You are the first person who has not been overly defensive with me.

Personally I feel Adam and Eve where given everything they needed to be healthy and happy and the bible does say disease and infertility will be a result of partaking of the sacrament unworthily. I don't think it meant people would be cursed, I think it means that people will not have the wisdom to be healthy if they do not live as He has suggested.

It goes along with laying up for treasures in heaven instead of treasures on earth. Lay up for treasures on earth and it could be likely that man live an entire life without any wisdom or God in it.

I'm going to treat this discussion as if we are too people gathered in His name trying to decipher His will. With that being said, my hang up with Christianity is the fact that I have found no one interested in the truth and science of the human immune system, it's capacity and how it is designed to function fully with complete immunity. I don't feel any of it is spiritual because it seems more scientific but I do believe it is Godly because it leaves no room for mammon to thrive.

Furthermore, I don't believe anything I can read or watch on TV to be true enough to earn any reasonable respect. I know disease is easily cured with nothing more than wisdom and truth and because people are so put off by what I know to be true it makes me look at every other aspect of this world with great suspicion. If self proclaimed Christians wish to avoid the discussion of being fully immune to disease what else do they avoid? What do they have to offer me?

What do they have to offer me? I'm often asked to attend this church and that church and I know it is because they hope I will learn compassion. I had compassion once. I lost it when I realized I was the only one with a practical form of compassion and the only one willing to carry it.

I can't imagine what anyone in church could offer me? I'm not saying I am perfect or even more righteous than those in church, I'm just saying I see no use for what they offer. Well that and the fact that they would likely wish to burn me at the stake if I said they were created to have complete immunity.

I don't know, maybe 'reason' is more important than compassion? I just hope the end is near because I'm tired of being alone. I could teach people to be healthy and to heal but I haven't found one other person willing to sacrifice their position in this world to learn such practical wisdom. So maybe I'm not supposed to heal the diseased? Maybe it isn't the right time. Maybe this internet discussion is part of the problem. There is a lot of swine taking a look at our pearls.


lone77star profile image

lone77star 4 years ago from Cebu, Philippines Author

David, I hear you on compassion+capitalism. There is certainly too much of that.

Your input has certainly stirred my own self-reflection. I think it's a good thing to question one's own "authority" from time-to-time.

The best kind of compassion is the "perfect" kind. It's hard to talk about this and to distinguish accurately this kind from its Earthly counterpart. But I think the Buddhists found a pretty good way to talk about it. The perfection (or "paramita") of something is that thing without its opposite. We're all familiar with the dichotomies good-evil, right-wrong, generous-selfish, wisdom-stupidity, compassion-indifference, confidence-doubt, etc. Ego seems to be built of these. These are the poisons of the "forbidden fruit." Humility is the antidote.

When someone gives and is proud to be seen giving, they are still in the plane of ego reality. Their generosity is tainted with selfishness.

When one truly gives out of love and hides their good deed so that no one feels a debt, they are giving the pure, one-sided "coin" of "paramita generosity." This is the lesson Jesus tried to get across to the Pharisees, but they wanted their "goodness" to be publicly known.

Your input has stirred within me more self-reflection and I realize that my own interest in voting had become tainted. Perhaps it always was.

There was a sense of being victim because of the perceived injustice of rigged elections and I was rebelling against that. I had made voting "important."

"Victim" and "importance" are sure signs of ego (the heart of selfishness and evil). Oh well! Looks like I need to clean house.

Interesting what you said about healing and no room for mammon.

As owner and creator of the entire universe, nothing is "too difficult" for Him. From Him springs an infinite reservoir of abundance. When we look at things through fear and scarcity, we dishonor Him.

I understand what you mean about those who wish you to "learn." But compassion is created, not learned. And, as children of God, we have the ability to create anything, including our own darkness and ignorance.

Regarding reason, I don't think so. Ego has "reasons" for doing things. Reason is continuity-based (of the world). Things like creation and forgiveness are discontinuity-based. They break with the bonds of things that persist; they rise above that continuity.

Peter was not "reasonable" when he stepped out of his storm-tossed boat onto the unsettled sea of Galilee. Reason had nothing to do with his standing on naked water for a moment in the pure bliss of perfect confidence.

I hope you rediscover true compassion. I'm still looking, myself. I only have the imperfect, earthly variety. But I've seen perfection, so I have a better sense of what it looks like. And yet, even I can be blinded. I'm still learning.

Swine? Let them look and taunt. They are the storm. Let them pass. Remain steadfast. Do not react to their presence. But work with those who are also searching.


True Cures profile image

True Cures 4 years ago from Payette Idaho

It is pretty rare to find a person willing to discuss “meat” of religion or Christianity. I don't know why, everyone knows we cannot be perfect so it seems reasonable people would be willing to at least discuss what being a Christian really entitles.

Instead people want only the milk. People simply want to know that they will be saved by believing they believe in Christ whether they actually do believe in Christ or not.

I 'believe' the reason people cannot accept that they are intended to be healthy and enjoying complete peace of mind is because mammon is our real master today. When I mention we are to be disease free to self-proclaimed Christians the excuses fly as to why man cannot be disease free. People make personal excuses why they cannot be healthy.

I've been given, have discovered or developed talents that make proper health and immunity possible but I cannot seem to give them away. My talents are in no way 'miracle talents'. I can't help a person heal that will not adopt at least some short term lifestyle changes and common sense so it isn't a miracle gift by any means. It is more a result of applying knowledge and wisdom while filtering out 'belief'.

The bible mentions that a person who flees the ways of the world will stand alone. Well my work with healing is not of the world and because of it I sure do stand alone. Can't find anyone interested. Sure lots of people want to be cured but even then those people consider the implications of the cure before they accept it.

For example a person with diabetes or Lyme disease may rather live with diabetes or lyme than become aware of the knowledge and wisdom needed to be healed of such diseases. Consequently the diseased people who are most interested in my work have diseases that are less socially acceptable. People with what is known as "herpes" seek me out more than anyone else because they feel their life is over because of their diagnoses. Fact is, "herpes" has little if anything to do with sex. Everything published in regards to what is known as “herpes” is pure science fiction.

Quite frankly I question whether I have a responsibility to heal people or not? I think you mentioned some question about that yourself. I think my potential progression is being complicated by this talent.

Because I know how easy it is for man to be healthy and disease free and because I know medicine and science is aware of this fact I no longer believe in anything I do not experience firsthand. Watched the movie Lions for Lambs last night and I realized that it is not just the movie that is pure fiction, society's perception of our government and its actions is equally pure fiction. Yours and my source for politics and world events is indeed pure fiction.

What our government releases through media that creates common perception is as much fiction as any movie just as today's medical industry is as fictional as any movie. Movies have a limited budget where our government and medical industry have no budget caps at all.

I've tried for over 20 years to make a difference but I cannot compete with the fictional glitter. I can't drag people away from it to literally save their lives.

I know we have gotten way off topic, but with what I feel I know to be true all elections are going to be bad trees that produce bad fruits. Worldly people can have good intentions. I wonder how Mr. Paul would view this discussion.

I really do appreciate you taking the time to share your thoughts with me. It isn't very often I get a chance to agree with anyone or even less common for me to get a chance to witness someone willing to reconsider or reevaluate their beliefs or ideas on any topic. It gives me some peace of mind knowing that I might have given you cause to reconsider some of the common beliefs you share with society.

Regards,

David


lone77star profile image

lone77star 4 years ago from Cebu, Philippines Author

David,

Rare? I think so, too. I've met a few online with varying degrees of openness. But even I have a certain amount of "inertia" to my ideas. They're not easy to change. I still have selfish attachments.

I can understand how attitude and what one puts one's attention on can affect health. "Importance" on any subject can be a real killer. I remember a tale of a Broadway celebrity contracting cancer and vowing to input nothing but humor. His cancer disappeared. Doctors were amazed. Did they learn? As James Gleick says in his bestselling book on "Chaos," anything which causes people to rearrange their way of looking at things tends to provoke hostility.

That's "importance." That's ego.

Yes, we are responsible -- unless we shirk that responsibility. Any complication is merely another opportunity to see something we've been avoiding.

There is no need to compete with the glitter. Merely find those for whom you can help. Leave those who reject the help. Your "turning the other cheek" (a smile at their rejection) may unsettle their rigidity; and then again it may not.

Way off topic? Perhaps, but it's all related!

We can participate in this world without being of this world. That's a real trick, certainly. But by attempting that trick, we gain new opportunities to learn, so long as we remain critically self-aware and able to divorce ourselves from our prized possessions of belief, attitude, values, etc.

If I hold anything as important (and I'm trying to adopt a new paradigm where nothing is judged that way), it is that I value self growth above all else. Without that, my life is so much dust.

You might be interested in my most recent book (all 32 pages of it). It's not yet published, but it's available online as a PDF. I've enjoyed your website; I offer you a bit of one of mine.

http://www.genesiscode.net/books/the_art_of_forgiv...

As for Mr. Paul, some of this may be to his liking and some may be completely beyond him. Everything I've seen about him seems very much consistent with a real gentleman, but I don't entirely know him. I truly hope he's as good a guy as he seems to be. He may well know that if he were to win the presidency, some very powerful and rich people would consider him a vital threat to their plans. If they're willing to kill thousands during 9/11 and to hurtle hundreds of thousands of people into the jaws of death in multiple wars over their greed, they could easily spend a few million to take out another president. Alas! But perhaps he knows it's the only compassionate thing he can do.


True Cures profile image

True Cures 4 years ago from Payette Idaho

I will read your book. Might even share it with others. Forgiveness, who would have thought it would be so difficult. I guess what makes it difficult is the fact we are engrained to not forgive.

I don't think the world has power over those who can forgive. I couldn't forgive until I walked away from all my possessions. I am struggling with a neighbor I would like to forgive but I am finding it more difficult being that the neighbor sits in church every Sunday and makes the poorest example of a Christian. I want to "rebuke" her but I know it will not do any good.

In my opinion 'church' is the original social networking long before Facebook. A perfect place to catch up on gossip and promote you latest business interest.

Bear in mind I haven't read your book yet. By the title I feel we have a whole lot in common. You are promoting forgiveness and I am promoting immunity two things everyone wants or wants to do but two things that require most extreme sacrifices.

I'm sure there is plenty of superficial forgiveness going on after a Sunday sermon on the subject but I bet you are still looking for your first real save. I have never met a person who has truly forgiven for the sake of forgiving. You have personally aroused my suspicions. Have you mastered the art? I will read the book and do what I can without actually meeting you in person. Regardless, you clearly like a challenge.

About Mr. Paul, it's too bad he will never be elected. Probably a good thing. If he were to be elected I think it would be a pretty good sign he is now what he appears to be. There will never be a righteous or righteously intent person in office. That's just not what the government is about or for.


True Cures profile image

True Cures 4 years ago from Payette Idaho

I read your book from the link and I really enjoyed it. I have read many of Ekhart Tolle's books which I also considered fairly valuable information.

I remember sending Tolle's books to my mother and brother and neither one of them found use for them. They didn't care much for his belief about the ego. They like to believe they are Christians so I might send them your link. They are pretty proud of their beliefs.

I use to be much better at forgiveness myself when I wasn't in such a hurry. I was also more effective at controlling my ego no it mostly controls me.

I don't claim to be a Christian but I do feel that I am more Christlike than Christians are despite my many sins with you being a possible exception.

It was a good read and today was a good day to read it. Thank you.


lone77star profile image

lone77star 4 years ago from Cebu, Philippines Author

Thanks, @True Cures. I understand what you mean by forgiveness being so difficult. Rereading my own book on forgiveness helps me to come closer to forgiving similar people who seem so much of themselves.

The desire to "rebuke" is of course not taking responsibility, but wanting to shift the responsibility to someone else. You're feeling ego tug at you. And I know that feeling too well, myself.

I have not yet mastered the art. The book came to me as inspiration, as if it wrote itself and I merely took dictation. It's a glorious feeling.

I only know of one instance where I forgave effortlessly. I describe that in the book. But I'm inspired to move closer to making that viewpoint more permanent.

I suspect you're right about Dr. Paul. It's amazing the contortions the two parties went through at their conventions to eliminating voting and Roberts Rules of Order. It's even more of a pretense, now.

I'm glad you liked the book on forgiveness.

And I understand about your mother and brother being proud of their beliefs. Pride, of course, is ego talking. One needs to empty their "cup" before God can fill it. Humility is the hard lesson. But Christ said that the first shall be last, and the last shall be first. Pride puts them in the former category, if I understand correctly.

And I understand what you mean about being in a hurry. One discovery I made involves the meaning of "importance." Anything that is "important" involves the ego -- because it's important to the "self." I'm finding that I'm becoming less angry or testy when I don't take things with such "importance."

Only two days ago did I discover that my one out-of-body experience with full visio (full technicolor!) happened because I was focused outward toward others. That seemed to be effect of the Power Processing (Scientology) that I was receiving at the time. Only when I became self-conscious did I lose the connection (the spiritual wakefulness), and was sucked right back into my body. I had realized that "I" was not casting a shadow. That one thought made me "fall" from grace, again, just as I had in the Garden so long ago.

Thank you, @True Cures, for helping to make my day even brighter. I hope you're doing well.

    Sign in or sign up and post using a HubPages Network account.

    0 of 8192 characters used
    Post Comment

    No HTML is allowed in comments, but URLs will be hyperlinked. Comments are not for promoting your articles or other sites.


    Click to Rate This Article
    working