Sandy Hook, Connecticut School Shooting? Fact or Fiction?

Victims of Sandy Hook

Who would ever want to accuse people of lying about the death of children and educators?
Who would ever want to accuse people of lying about the death of children and educators? | Source

Read On Before You Decide

I am the last person to ever become a conspiracy theorist. They are usually a bunch of far-out, nut jobs who think someone is out to get them around every corner. But, the more I have learned about the horrendous shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School, the more suspicious I become of the story.

First of all, I would never accuse anyone, government or individual, of wrongdoing. But the facts revealed in the video I posted are such that I shake my head in wonder.

Outpouring of Support is Great!

Let me start off by being positive. The outpouring of support from around the country is overwhelming! With cards, letters, flowers, stuffed animals, and money, it is good to see people's concern and generosity. As of January 18th, $8.5 million has been collected in a Sandy Hook Foundation, according to the Hartford Courant. The foundation is not sure what will be done with that money yet. My guess is that it will go toward the school itself, a memorial, or gun control. My question is, who will decide who gets this money?

News Media

I hope you do not take everything you hear as fact. Even the news, no matter the station, has it's own spin on every topic. As an active citizen, I try to get the honest facts of every news story that interests me. So as I'm watching footage of the Sandy Hook massacre, I'm struck with the lack of hard facts given to me by the news media.

  1. Very little is known about the shooter and his connection to Sandy Hook Elementary. I still have yet to hear how his mother was connected to the school.
  2. The medical examiner is completely unprepared for his news conference! When it comes to the facts, he says the victims were all shot with the Bushmaster, assault rifle. In the first video above, they show aerial footage of police taking this very weapon out of the shooter's car! When it comes to the details of the victims deaths, he appears to have no details. I personally am mortified when this man later laughs at himself later in the interview. Is he so jaded that the death of the innocent doesn't phase him?
  3. When you watched the live footage of the shootings, NO BODIES were taken to the hospital in an ambulance. Very few, if any, medical personnel are seen entering into the school, moments after the shooting. Shouldn't they be assessing the victims? Everything was done in a makeshift tent outside the school. Typical protocol is that the pronouncement of death is usually done at the hospital.
  4. CNN reports that several are at the hospital with injuries but the aerial shots show no ambulances nearby the school but some distance away. Plus, these emergency vehicles could not get out since every street is blocked. When I say blocked, I mean a multitude of cars blocking the roadway.
  5. We only see one small group of children brought outside to safety. What about the other hundreds of children. Where were they?

Would you be smiling if you knew your daughter was just in the school with a mass shooter?

The Facts That Don't Add Up

Let me start off this section by saying I am deeply saddened for accusing people of lying. But once I saw the facts, I could come to no other conclusion. The first video I posted has a lot of this information. You'll see it in other places around the web and in videos. Makes you wonder...

  • No loved ones are crying, for real. If my child is murdered or is in harm's way, you'll have to sedate me because I will be so hysterical with emotion and real tears.
  • Flaky eye witnesses with crazy stories. The one who supposedly watched some of the kids left by the bus driver is one that comes to mind. No bus driver I know would EVER leave children with a strange man.
  • The number of witnesses and parents who are in the actors guild.
  • There is footage, in the first video, of the shooter being chased down in the woods. Then he is put into the FRONT seat of the police car. Don't suspects go in the back?
  • There is footage of police taking this Bushmaster assault rifle from the suspect's car. This is the same weapon that the medical examiner says shot all children. How is that possible.
  • Web pages, Facebook and others, created either before or during the attack on 12/14.
  • Like the London bombing and 9/11, the US government was doing a training exercise just a few blocks away from Sandy Hook Elementary. What creeped me out was that the topic of this exercise was similar to the actual event at the school.
  • Photos have surfaced of a supposedly dead child with her family and the president, taken after 12/14.

the Fallout

Gun control has become a top priority for President Obama. While he is not asking for an end to the 2nd Amendment, he is asking for law abiding citizens for more if they want to purchase a gun. The notion that the suspect of Sandy Hook used an assault rifle is critical to getting a complete ban on all similar weapons.

The good news for the National Rifle Association is that membership is up. People who might not have considered joining are signing up in record numbers. According to CNN, some 250,000 people joined in the wake of Sandy Hook.

There is so much uncertainty as to what the future of guns holds, Walmart has suspended all new orders of bullets. Since they are the nation's number one gun seller, that could mean a temporary run on ammunition.


Atlanta School Shooting 1/31/13 at Price Middle

A mother frantically holds her child after a student opens fire at Price Middle School in South Atlanta. January 31, 2013
A mother frantically holds her child after a student opens fire at Price Middle School in South Atlanta. January 31, 2013 | Source
Notice how the facial expression match in the two photos. The photo is a little small but there is a tear falling.
Notice how the facial expression match in the two photos. The photo is a little small but there is a tear falling. | Source
This mom is NOT letting her kids go. Completely different body language than the CNN video (above) with a family who just got their child out of the school.
This mom is NOT letting her kids go. Completely different body language than the CNN video (above) with a family who just got their child out of the school. | Source

A REAL School Shooting Incident

Late January, a south Atlanta school (Price Middle) had an incident where a 14-year-old boy brought a gun to school and randomly fired it outside near other students. No one was killed but one boy was grazed in the neck. This school is located in a rougher part of Atlanta and has heightened securtiy including metal detectors. Officials are not sure how the gun got into the school in the first place.

While school administrators were investigating the crime the day of the incident, students were held in an off-campus, secure location. Parents were forced to wait for hours before they could see their children.

The photos show what parents going through a real tragedy look like. Remember, no one was killed in the incident. Notice how the parents cling to their children.

Look in the background of these photos. There is chaos as parents frantically search for their child. When parents do find their children, the photos show the absolute relief and thankfulness.

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Comments 95 comments

JayeWisdom profile image

JayeWisdom 3 years ago from Deep South, USA

Conspiracy theorists can manipulate facts and doctor tapes to fit their ideas, and one only has to take an occasional look at Fox News and right wing blogs to learn that "facts" can be manufactured for cable TV and print to suit the GOP agenda of trying to discredit the president. The efforts of these conspiracy theorists only add to the horror and grief of the actual event.

You don't even want to know my opinion of the NRA (which wields incredible power) or the gun proponents attempting to turn time back in the USA to frontier mentality!


ChristinS profile image

ChristinS 3 years ago from Midwest

JayeWisdom, I echo your sentiments.

that being said, I tend to disregard nonsense conspiracy theories, but I am compelled to point out a few things here.

As to the people not being hysterical enough or showing enough emotions, nonsense. There is a "shut down" when dealing with trauma that occurs. I know, because my son was in a traumatic accident last summer. I did not lose my head right away - it took time for the emotional weight of it to hit me. This allowed me to communicate with people, doctors, life flight crew etc. A death would be 1000 times worse. It's called shock and numbness and to insinuate these people's grief isn't genuine because they aren't hysterical enough is insensitive at best.

As for the media coverage being all over the place, it was the ridiculous media all trying to one-up each other. Our media is ludicrous, I'll agree to that point. They were making it up as they went along without facts. It was a confusing scene with enormous chaos which was not made better by constant media interference.

I'll also agree that the medical examiners demeanor left a lot to be desired - but consider what he does for a living. You'd dissociate too if you had his job, who wouldn't? I can't begin to imagine the horrors that duty involved. People who work those type of jobs have to have a bit more of a disconnect than the average person or how would they be able to perform said job?

Bodies were removed from the scene in private vehicles to avoid the media circus - that would be painfully obvious or they would have had the media chasing the ambulances - quite literally.

As for the facebook and dead child with the picture etc. I call BS - doctored and fabricated to suit an agenda. Believe nothing you see from anyone who has a nutjob agenda. I work with Photoshop daily - trust me on this point.

As for the line that people wouldn't let children go to the house of a man close by - I don't know where you live, but in my close knit community we are pretty trusting of our neighbors. Also, had you just gone through something like that chances are you're not thinking as rationally as you might. Fight or flight response is in full gear - that bus driver was likely in shock and just going through the motions.

As to the parents/relatives being in the actors guild - fact check and proof please - seriously.

The truth of the matter is the media botched their coverage but to suggest this tragedy was a hoax is painful and cruel to a group of people who have already dealt with more than I hope any of you conspiracy theorists ever have to face.


JayeWisdom profile image

JayeWisdom 3 years ago from Deep South, USA

ChristinS, I salute you for saying everything I didn't (but should have) and saying it so well and thoroughly. Fortunately, there are people such as you who aren't taken in by the conspiracy theorists and "nutjob" agendas.


higher education profile image

higher education 3 years ago

Shows you how sad our educational system is when people confuse a "nutjob" as the definition for conspiracy theorists, instead of the actual meaning which would be a person who has theories about plans another person has made.

I myself have not researched the situation enough, to know whether some of the theories out there are valid, but I do know that the situation did help bring forth an executive order against the second amendment, which was put in place so that the American people would have the ability to protect themselves against a tyrannical government and continue to have freedom. As Adolf Hitler said: "To conquer a nation, first disarm it's citizens."


junkseller profile image

junkseller 3 years ago from Michigan

That video is mostly pure rubbish. I have written a hub that goes through it point by point. The gun pulled from the trunk is most likely a shotgun. Gene Rosen being an actor is simply lazy, shoddy research, etc. There is not a single credible piece of evidence supporting a conspiracy theory. To call these people liars and harass them on top of the tragedy they are already dealing with is indecent


my_girl_sara profile image

my_girl_sara 3 years ago from Georgia Author

How do you explain the websites and Facebook pages that were created either the day BEFORE the incident or while the incident was occurring? That's what got me.

Also, if you lose a child, I promise you won't smile for weeks and sometimes years. Last night I watched an interview with a man who had lost his child 5 years prior. He had no problem shedding tears.


ChristinS profile image

ChristinS 3 years ago from Midwest

Where's your proof there were sites created before? because you saw it in a youtube video? that can be easily faked. All of this conspiracy is nonsense created by people who are paranoid that the govt is going to come take your guns away. It's illogical lunacy that is incredibly, horribly insensitive and cruel to the families. How would you feel if it were you and people were trivializing it? People were afraid Clinton was going to confiscate guns too - nonsense. Take a psychology course or two and learn something about human behavior before jumping to ridiculous conclusions and hopping on paranoid bandwagons.


junkseller profile image

junkseller 3 years ago from Michigan

One page created the day of the shooting was started by friends of one of the families. Also, on Facebook, page names can be changed anytime you want and the page created date won't change. So a page created before the event can be changed to be a memorial page after the shooting.

I'm no expert on grief, so all I can go by is my own experience, but in my experience, laughing, joking, and remembering wonderful things about someone lost are all healthy and normal ways of getting through it. I haven't seen anything I thought was unusual.


higher education profile image

higher education 3 years ago

I realize that each person deals with grief differently, however I know from my own personal experience from losing 2 children to parental alienation, and from my grandmother's experience from the loss of my aunt on her 14th birthday. The loss of a loved one makes it very hard to laugh and joke remembering the wonderful things about a love one right after the fact, years after the fact, and even decades after the fact.


Nathan Orf profile image

Nathan Orf 3 years ago from Virginia

I am so glad to see that there are many comments on here from those who think logically. Sandy Hook was a monstrous tragedy, so of course conspiracy theories would form in its wake. That does not change the fact that the theories this time around are particularly hurtful and insensitive.

The person behind that video is not concerned with decency, fact or "finding the real truth," I think. They just want to get as many views as possible for their video.


my_girl_sara profile image

my_girl_sara 3 years ago from Georgia Author

Fact or not, I think it's all a little fishy. They have a lot of explaining to do...too many holes. Plus, the $8.5 million--where's that going?


junkseller profile image

junkseller 3 years ago from Michigan

I put a link to an article on my hub in answer to the question about the money. Right now I think it is being managed by United Way, which I tend to think of as a respectable organization. The plan seems to be to set up a community organization to manage the money which would include a variety of community leaders and I think some parents of the victims. They have expressed an intention of being completely transparent, so it sounds, at least, like that is being responsibly managed.

As for being fishy, I think that is in part a result of very poor reporting (the media was wrong about many things in the initial reporting) and simply a result of officials being very tight-lipped during an investigation, but that is true for all such incidents. Look at any of the recent shootings and you'll find there are lots of unanswered questions.


ChristinS profile image

ChristinS 3 years ago from Midwest

explaining to do to whom? Why should anyone have to try to explain themselves to those propagating misinformation and conspiracy theories with so little regard for the victims? People who are not capable of reason and well-rounded thought processes can't have things explained to them - they just come up with more ridiculous conspiracies to suit their own agenda or need for attention.


my_girl_sara profile image

my_girl_sara 3 years ago from Georgia Author

It appears Sen Joseph Lieberman will be heading the Sandy Hook School Foundation, partnering with the United Way.http://newtownbee.com/News/2013-01-18__15-53-11/Li... Still don't know where the money is going. I haven't heard of any of the families who lost loved ones will get any of it.


OldWitchcraft profile image

OldWitchcraft 3 years ago from The Atmosphere

Good article!

This media event occurred more than 5 weeks ago and the evidence that it is a hoax is piling up.

The media have a huge credibility problem. I just finished an article compiling some of the best evidence that it's a hoax perpetrated by the media and other elements: "Why are People Saying the Sandy Hook Massacre is a Hoax? The Best Evidence."

It's not a "theory" - the burden of proof is on the the people who said this thing happened. They have presented no evidence of a shooting. And, there's every bit of evidence that this was a drill.


OldWitchcraft profile image

OldWitchcraft 3 years ago from The Atmosphere

ChristinS,

Where's the proof that this alleged event occurred? Where are the two alleged survivors and eye-witnesses? Where is the security camera footage?

The evidence is that this was a hoax. If you enjoy believing fictional stories and like feeling superior to other people, that's you're problem. But, the real victims here are the people who are being defrauded by believing in this hoax! And, they are being further victimized by ignorant people like you, who don't bother to look at the facts before they start screaming "conspiracy theorist" at people. Look at the facts.


ChristinS profile image

ChristinS 3 years ago from Midwest

What would be the purpose of perpetrating a hoax like this? Explain that to me? Who has taken away guns? Who has even suggested banning all weapons and/or confiscating them? The people who are creating this conspiracy theory are attention seekers or paranoid people who hate Obama and the government. Where did I ever say I was superior? Show me proof that's compelling rather than insulting me. Oh, I guess you can't because it isn't there... whatever. It's insulting and cruel and I hope if tragedy ever strikes you or your family or people you know that you don't ever have to experience what that feels like to have people accuse you of lying and fabrication. good grief.


OldWitchcraft profile image

OldWitchcraft 3 years ago from The Atmosphere

There is a mountain of evidence that the Sandy Hook event was a drill that was covered, either intentionally or through ineptitude, as a real crisis event.

There is no evidence that there was a shooting. There is no camera footage, we have seen no injured people, no *credible* witnesses to a shooting - no child saw anyone shot - and there is not a drop of blood to be seen.

They have collected millions in funds for relief according to various sources around the net.

And, they have predicated a gun grab on this fictional narrative.

That's the motive, which is obvious to anyone who bothers to look at the facts before name calling and ridiculing people who are conducting independent investigation.

I have an article on this subject that assembles some of the best evidence - for anyone who wants to take the time (and it takes a few dedicated hours) to actually look at it.


ChristinS profile image

ChristinS 3 years ago from Midwest

no one is taking anyone's guns. You're the one who is being insulting witchcraft and there is plenty of "evidence" a tragedy occurred. Did they show the bloody people from columbine or aurora? no. Why? common decency - something some people apparently lack these days because they are paranoid about a gun grab. There's no reasoning with the unreasonable and I am done with this subject. If you're interested there are plenty of credible sources out there that are debunking the conspiracy theories as well. I can't post said links here as it violates HP policy - but perhaps you should look those up as well, but then that wouldn't suit your agenda.


OldWitchcraft profile image

OldWitchcraft 3 years ago from The Atmosphere

There is no evidence a tragedy occurred. Show me. Where is it?

The media got caught perpetrating a hoax. That's what the evidence shows.


OldWitchcraft profile image

OldWitchcraft 3 years ago from The Atmosphere

You *can* post links here. If the owner of the article doesn't want it there, she has the power to remove the comment.

And, I'm sure that we would all really like to see some evidence in this case. So, if you have evidence that there was any actual violence against a human being at Sandy Hook on the 14th of December, 2012, you can post it here.

If the author objects, you can, also, post it at my article on this same subject.

Everyone is looking for such evidence, but nobody can find it.

Have you seen the Social Security Death record that shows that Adam Lanza was deceased the day before the alleged shooting? You can look it up at ancestry.com.


OldWitchcraft profile image

OldWitchcraft 3 years ago from The Atmosphere

I saw Glenn Beck's "debunking" - the first thing he did was put up the photo of the alleged Robbie Parker family at Christmas in which the little girl on the left has no legs. (I have it posted at my article - it's pretty obvious.) Why is that photo and every other photo of that family digitally altered to place different children in it?

All anyone else, including Cooper, Beck and the Atlantic Wire, Snopes, etc. have done is insult and ridicule people and take the weakest evidence and try to manipulate it.

If you actually look at this evidence, you will question whether Columbine happened the way they said it did... there is a Colorado connection, but that's a deeper layer.

Start by looking at the guns. Nobody could have done what he's alleged to have done because it is physically impossible.

Then look at the testimony of Gene Rosen - bus driver is a he then a she. The six children were, he alleges, survivors of a classroom where the teacher died... except that's not possible. It goes on and on...

In a real shooting event at a school, there should be security camera footage, we've seen nothing.


OldWitchcraft profile image

OldWitchcraft 3 years ago from The Atmosphere

Also, let me be clear about what kind of things would constitute "evidence" of a shooting event:

1. Pictures of the interior of the school in the aftermath

2. Picture of the dead body of the alleged shooter

The above *were* shown as evidence in the Columbine shooting.

Further evidence, in the case of Sandy Hook would be:

3. Pictures of the broken glass or door which was allegedly breached. (There are 3 different stories about what happened with the door)

4. Interior or exterior security camera footage of the alleged shooter in the building with his AR-15

5. Picture of weapon used. (The only weapon we've seen has been a a classically styled shotgun pulled from the trunk of a car - which is not registered to Lanza's mother. Note: A shotgun is not a semi-automatic, nor is it a rifle.)

The above 5 things are examples of the kind of thing that could constitute evidence of a shooting event. It's the kind of thing that is seen in genuine events.

What happened here was a drill around which the media constructed a fictional narrative. That's what the evidence that *anyone* has been able to dig up shows. I have it on my page on this subject. Granted, it's not light reading. The people who are investigating this usually spend a couple of days looking at all of the evidence and they are all concluding the same thing.

If there is evidence of a shooting, we'd all like to see it. It's what we are all trying to find, but to no avail.


Dan Plesse profile image

Dan Plesse 3 years ago from Saint James, New York

What happened to Life Flight service? The average salary for Life Flight Paramedic in Sandy Hook, Connecticut is $56,427, so they seem to exist and Danbury hospital was 11.3 miles you can drive it on Google 3-D

Sandy Hook Elementary School, Newtown, CT to Danbury hospital 3-D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9OGRgyPeFM

Don't you think a helicopter would have been better? maybe Danbury's own Life Star Helicopters?


OldWitchcraft profile image

OldWitchcraft 3 years ago from The Atmosphere

Dan Plesse,

Interesting point. You're the first one I've seen to dig up this angle and I've been looking at this thing for days. I wake up with it; I go to sleep with it.

This is the first I've seen of this. In Mike Powers' interview with Joyce Riley, he mentions that only one 911 call was registered at Sandy Hook (or Newton) emergency line that day and that is the call from the nurse's office. In his interview, he tells you where to go online to find this information. There's a web site where all of the 911 emergency calls are recorded.

This is further evidence that this was a drill - they used another frequency and were not plugged into the 911 service. You'll see them doing this in the case of other drills. I have a couple of videos about drills at my hub (article) and there are numerous videos online showing drills. The University of Colorado at Aurora has one such video.

The one call may have been made by someone who wasn't in on the "joke." Or, maybe it was just a mistake.


Dan Plesse profile image

Dan Plesse 3 years ago from Saint James, New York

at 5:57 below link Vance said as the rescue teams arrived the active shooting teams entered the school from several different points and the necessity of forcing their way in gain access to perform the rescue and to save as many students as they possibly could hence law enforcement broke many windows.

First #1 your teams are not the active shooting teams! (I hope not)

Secondly #2 He could said "active shooting drill teams" by mistake and they edited the video to cover his ass.

Thirdly #3 "active shooting teams is drill only terminology once you go real world the terms becomes 1. shooter or 2. shooters.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KfW9cBnHeJ0


OldWitchcraft profile image

OldWitchcraft 3 years ago from The Atmosphere

Dan Plesse,

Again, very interesting. Thank you.

Vance has been at other drills. There is local footage of this that someone (Scott Walker?) compiled at YouTube.

I tried to do a little checking on Vance and I can't find much about him in CT before October of 2012. Of course, he's supposed to be with the state police - and maybe he is. It's hard to know what to believe at this point and I don't believe anything until I can verify it.

I don't know how old the other drill footage is.

I did a little research on the term "active shooting team" - and you're right, this term is related to Homeland Sec. drills.

The first thing I find upsetting about Vance is what appears to be an attempt to chill any inquiry. The second thing is I can't verify if he is really who he is supposed to be.


junkseller profile image

junkseller 3 years ago from Michigan

"Active shooter teams" is the appropriate terminology and is widely used. Once upon a time, for these types of events, police would wait for SWAT teams. Over time, and as these events have become more common, police have realized that there are times when they can not wait for SWAT and so they have developed the policy, and regularly train for it, of forming up into 4+ person active shooter teams and entering the building or area to attempt to engage the hostile element. The term means a team searching for an active shooter. If you listen to the Clackamas mall shooting event, you will also hear numerous references to the police forming into these teams. Your ignorance does not make for a conspiracy. http://www.takresponse.com/index/tactical-law_news...


OldWitchcraft profile image

OldWitchcraft 3 years ago from The Atmosphere

Junkseller,

"Active shooter teams" are used in drills, also, and in particular drills being conducted by Homeland Sec. Some of the so-called "debunkers" of the debunkers have tried to say that there is no such thing, at all.

Maybe you could try to be a little less rude and abusive toward other people. Nobody wants to engage with people when they have a derisive attitude like yours and won't bother to check into facts when they are presented... Don't know who Mike Powers is, you say? - go find out.


junkseller profile image

junkseller 3 years ago from Michigan

OldWitchcraft,

DHS uses the term in the exact same way. It refers to teams of law-enforcement personnel entering an area to engage an active shooter. They use the term in drills. They use the term in actual real-life events. DHS has been a partner with other agencies all across the nation in helping to develop these tactics. You are sensationalizing something that is entirely ordinary.

Perhaps "ignorance" is a strong term. In this case, considering the way you are treating these people, I consider it quite reserved.

I know all about Mike Powers and am at the moment writing a hub debunking his equally weak 'evidence' which so far doesn't really rise above a 2nd grade level.


OldWitchcraft profile image

OldWitchcraft 3 years ago from The Atmosphere

Junkseller,

I am not sensationalizing anything - the media did that. I wrote one article explaining why people are saying this is a hoax, which pretty much chronicles how I arrived at that conclusion. All I was initially trying to do was verify for myself which weapon was used in the shooting - Piers Morgan says it was an AR-15. Every other source says it was handguns.

Who is the "these people" that I'm treating in some way you disapprove of? Anderson Cooper who runs fake footage of a nearby drill? Glenn Beck who airs pictures of an obviously photoshopped photo?

Why are you so anxious to defend the mainstream media when they tell lie after lie? The way it looks, they helped defraud innocent people of millions of dollars in "relief funds" on the basis of an elaborate story that no one can even begin to verify.

When you write your article, why don't you produce some of the evidence of a genuine shooting event that I mentioned above? That would be really helpful.


Dan Plesse profile image

Dan Plesse 3 years ago from Saint James, New York

Sandy Hook investigation update #15 Soap Nazi Says No Life Flight For You Sandy Hook Elementary

http://youtu.be/YdAT0PfufPI


junkseller profile image

junkseller 3 years ago from Michigan

OldWitchcraft,

The media did a terrible job. Shockingly bad in fact, but it makes no sense to use that shockingly bad reporting as evidence of a conspiracy. The official story has been consistent. It has also been short on details but that is always true for ongoing investigations.

The official story regarding the guns has never changed. 3 inside (.223 + 2 handguns), 1 in the trunk (shotgun). Gun used to kill victims in school was the .223 except for Lanza himself who used a handgun to kill himself.

You are telling in entire grieving town that their kids didn't really die. That is just plain mean.

The evidence for the shooting are the thousands of witnesses who can testify to it. The school was locked down very quickly. The only ones who have photos/videos of the deceased and the event are the authorities and you just aren't going to get them until the investigation is complete, which is months away. Even if you did have such evidence, I don't think it would matter. You'd still say it was faked.


Dan Plesse profile image

Dan Plesse 3 years ago from Saint James, New York

Sandy Hook investigation update #15a

includes Barbara´╗┐ Sibley, Lt. Paul Vance, Dr. Janet Robinson, Police Radio, Life Flight, Code Silver, Active Shooter Drill mistakes Danbury Hospital, Google Earth 2 photos.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=On-uKxv-D1U

junkseller "4 hand guns and only 4 hand guns"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRNw9HyRYtA


junkseller profile image

junkseller 3 years ago from Michigan

Dan Plesse,

So a single reporter who has talked to anonymous 'officials' saying that there were four handguns carries more weight with you than do all the official statements and most of the other reporting?

Not to mention simple common sense. Why in the world would anyone carry in 4 handguns? And why would anyone not use the AR-15 if it is available?


OldWitchcraft profile image

OldWitchcraft 3 years ago from The Atmosphere

Junkseller,

You know that much of what you wrote above is lies. I don't need to tell you that in any detailed way, because you already know.

And, the term that is being used is "hoax." It's a hoax because there is no evidence that anything happened.

If you have evidence, I'm sure we'd all like to see it.

"Debunking" and attacking individuals who are asking questions (How dare we question authority!) accomplishes nothing - why not dig up some evidence of this alleged event, instead?

Why not start with your thousands of witnesses?


junkseller profile image

junkseller 3 years ago from Michigan

You are the one trying to prove something. You need to put up evidence, not me.

As for questioning authority, I'm all for it. I wish you'd do more of it, such as, for instance, questioning Mike Powers. Who the heck is this guy anyway? I'd love for you to find a single reference to him outside of this Sandy Hook interview. This is a guy who allegedly has worked in US Naval Law Enforcement, US Army Infantry reconnaissance, 15 years in civil service doing search and rescue, counter-proliferation, and something having to do with Native American artifacts with the Bureau of Land Management, along with 10 years of instructing wilderness survival and personal defense, 10 years as a tactics and firearms trainer, and has provided security for celebrities, foreign dignitaries, and military officials and there's not a single mention of him anywhere other than this interview? How about you turn your sense of skepticism towards that.


OldWitchcraft profile image

OldWitchcraft 3 years ago from The Atmosphere

The burden of proof is on the media and those who believe in the Redeeming Blood of Jesus, the Easter Bunny, Santa Claus and other delusions to prove that an actual shooting event took place.

There is no evidence of a shooting of twenty-some people perpetrated by anyone, let alone someone named Adam Lanza. If you say there is, then you PROVE it.

Mike Powers is not the man's real name - I don't use my real name on anything, either. But, Mike Powers and people who question the official story are not in the question here, at all ... the question is what happened at Sandy Hook? Trying to discredit the people asking questions makes you look like a jerk.

If you believe that Adam Lanza killed a bunch of people at Sandy Hook, then prove it... just prove it and all of the people questioning the official story will go away.

It's that simple.

Where's the proof?


junkseller profile image

junkseller 3 years ago from Michigan

Dude, you're a guy in a swimming pool refusing to believe you are wet. I'm not going to argue with you about what water is.


OldWitchcraft profile image

OldWitchcraft 3 years ago from The Atmosphere

Junkseller,

I don't know if you're referring to me. I am most certainly not a "dude" or a "guy" and I have no idea why you would assume any such thing - unless you're addressing Mr. Plesse.

You are in the same position as anyone who makes a statement of faith. Do you believe in something because Anderson Cooper told you so? Is something self-evident because it was broadcast on your television screen as "Breaking News?"

I am not a person of faith. You are going to have a lot of problem showing evidence of the invisible and that's what you have in this case - the utter invisibility of any evidence to support the official story put forth by the mainstream media.

You worship the television set at your own peril. But, don't expect everyone else to do the same. If you expect people to believe some pretty wild assertions in the face of an avalanche of evidence to the contrary, they you are going to have to come up with some credible evidence and eventually some concrete proof.

There is not a shred of evidence that an Adam Lanza shot up a school. That's a fact - unless you can actually present some evidence that he did.

So, put up or shut up!


Dan Plesse profile image

Dan Plesse 3 years ago from Saint James, New York

Junkseller,

If you watched the video you have a better understanding of the just some of the issues. The officials have dodged and weaved every important question so far and still no 911 recordings. Radioman911TV "No 911 calls have been released as of today. " email to ct.gov has been of very little help. Police radio shows a three minute window between reports of shooting and reports of silence and EMS have reported "No Bodies" and "It was like a drill" Vance continues to use drill terminology with real world reporting to the press. He might still believe he's in drill land. Wiki reports an array of weapons I have never of and the gun pulled at night without gloves from the trunk was a Saiga 12 Shotgun i.e http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tD0PKDGlwiw Izhmash Saiga-12 was reported by wiki.

and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5o2u_4Z2SE and wiki source http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandy_Hook_Elementary...


OldWitchcraft profile image

OldWitchcraft 3 years ago from The Atmosphere

Dan Plesse,

Junkseller has an written an article attacking some of the points in the video shown at the top of this article. Actually, there are some questionable points in that vid, but that's because it's just one person's observations. The overall point the video makes is valid.

Videos like the one above and a couple of the top ones I have embedded at my article give a good overview of the issues. The reason there are so many independent investigators (thousands - maybe millions of us) is because when you go to verify some of the points brought up in the videos on your own, you find that you cannot. Furthermore, each step you take in trying to verify something leads you to more and more inconsistencies - not to mention some things that are just downright weird.

I don't know what it all means. I don't know if there is a conspiracy - a conspiracy is a group of people planning to commit a crime. I can't get past the fact that there's no evidence of *anything* that looks like the crime the media say happened actually having happened.

An allegedly bereaved man getting in front of a camera and laughing, then pretending to cry and reading off a cue card isn't evidence of a either a hoax or a conspiracy, but it was the thing that made a lot of people look more closely at this story. When anyone goes looking for the evidence of a Sandy Hook shooting being carried out by Adam Lanza, they come up empty handed.

For some reason, Junkseller is more interested in scrutinizing and criticizing people who are asking reasonable questions than actually looking for evidence to support the assertion that such a shooting took place.


OldWitchcraft profile image

OldWitchcraft 3 years ago from The Atmosphere

Dan Plesse,

Also, I visited your links. Very interesting.

Today I ran across a message from an eye-witness posted at someone's blog that stated he observed people gathering at the firehouse for a drill and the police blocking off streets in the neighborhood at around 9 a.m. This guy was going to get milk for his cereal, he said. His wife works at another school in town. Upon hearing the report on the news that schools in the area were on lockdown, he called his wife. She said they were not on lockdown and she had not heard of anything going on.

If you look at the footage of drills being conducted, they look about as realistic as what we saw at Sandy Hook. The only evidence I can find points to the conclusion that it was a drill. Were any actual people killed? I don't know. But, Social Security Death Index shows Nancy Lanza dead that day and her son Adam dead the day before the shooting. Those are the only two deaths related to this story that anyone has been able to confirm, so far.


OldWitchcraft profile image

OldWitchcraft 3 years ago from The Atmosphere

Dan Plesse,

I just tried to verify the deaths of some of the other alleged victims - Dawn Hochsprung is indexed with SSDI and the D.O.D. is correct.

I, also, checked on one of the children...

This is a whole other rabbit hole, really, because if you trust the info. at the Social Security Dept., then there are dead people, but there's no way Adam Lanza could be the killer because he was already dead.

The problem I have is the reports that the parents weren't allowed to see their own children's bodies. But, this does go into the world of conspiracies - and occult conspiracies and, believe me, most people are not prepared to wrap their minds around the darker aspects of the occult. The Franklin Cover-up leaps to mind. And, I've said before that if there are any parents - real parents missing real children - then they should be looking for them because the official story stinks to high heaven and there are fates worse than death.

I'm going to check out a couple more... Still, this shows nothing except that the official story is a lie, which was already obvious. It doesn't really answer any questions. And, if these children and adults are really dead, then there is a killer at large because it couldn't have been Lanza.


OldWitchcraft profile image

OldWitchcraft 3 years ago from The Atmosphere

It looks like most, but not all are on the list. Now, this list is from Ancestry.com - it's not the actual Social Security office, but retrieves info. from there.

I am very familiar with Ancestry as an ex-Mormon cult member. I noticed that Mormon Glenn Beck stepped up to defend fellow Mormon Robbie Parker. I knew Parker was a cult member the first time I heard his bizzaro speech because cult members give little cues that help them recognize one another. Emilie Parker is on the list at Ancestry, by the way.

My interest in the occult - because I am a witch and a Satanic one, as well - originated with my experience with the Mormons. I am a Mormon cult survivor. I have an article that has a section in it about the kinds of things that cult members have reportedly done to little children about the age of these victims. I had friends at BYU who had mental disorders related to this kind of torture. And, there, Junkseller, is your conspiracy theory - or, at least, the making of it. The Mormon Church is the the Temple of Set with a candy coating on it and they have tentacles that reach into the CIA.

I don't know if those Ancestry SSDI records contain accurate information - I don't know why many of the deaths are not recorded. I don't know why others are. And, I don't know why Adam Lanza is recorded dead before the alleged event occurred. But, I do know that nobody is talking about it on CNN or any other mainstream media outlet.


junkseller profile image

junkseller 3 years ago from Michigan

Dan Plesse,

I've watched the videos and have also posted a very lengthy hub discussing many of the points raised and am about to post another one discussing the Mike Powers interview that is also quite lengthy. So far the evidence offered by the conspiracy theory or hoax side, whatever you want to call it, is completely unconvincing.


my_girl_sara profile image

my_girl_sara 3 years ago from Georgia Author

For all of you who believe this is true...why were there no people taken to the hospital? Ambulances were pretty far away.

Also, if your child had been in harm's way, would you be snickering/smiling or crying and a little hysterical? I'd be frantically hugging my child.

Sorry many of you cannot imagine that there might be fraud on the part of our government in order to manipulate public opinion.


junkseller profile image

junkseller 3 years ago from Michigan

According to reports, three people were taken to the hospital. I think it just happened before any of the footage which has been made available.

As for crying/laughing, I think they are much closer to each other than we typically think. Consider watching a horror movie with a buddy and both of you getting scared half-to-death, what do you do afterwards? You laugh at each other. It's an emotional pressure release valve. Similarly, sometimes we cry when we are really happy. In my opinion, our brains and emotions are just too complex to be that predictable.

I can't speak for anyone else, but for myself, I don't doubt there can be fraud on the part of the government, but too many of these conspiracy theories are asking me to believe in fraud on the part of my fellow citizens and that is an entirely different thing.


OldWitchcraft profile image

OldWitchcraft 3 years ago from The Atmosphere

Later it was reported that 2 survivors were taken to the hospital. It was reported that these were children. I had to dig hard to find a news article that said they died. Other reports indicate that the last 2 were Adam and Nancy Lanza. Most reports stuck to 2 survivors, earlier reports said 3.

Another strange connection is Christopher Rodia (it was his mother's car that they pulled the shotgun, which they called a rifle out of - it's a black 4-door) who seems to be associated with Peter Lanza. Rodia was cleared that day of committing the shooting (there is a 911 call recorded, but there are anomalies surrounding this incident, as well)- Reportedly, he has a long record that includes everything from copper theft to sex crimes. Why this angle hasn't been investigated by the actual investigators, I don't know. But, if anyone had a motive for getting rid of his ex-wife and a son (especially, in these times of economic hardship for so many) it would be a man who is providing her with a home and paying a phenomenal amount of money to her monthly as part of the terms of a divorce agreement. Wouldn't ya think?

But, that still doesn't explain all of the anomalies. That medical examiner is a highly suspicious character. He had a law changed in CT back in 2011 (almost as if in preparation for such an event as this - look for CT Article 1054 - bill passed in Oct. 2011) so that his office would not have to make public information about victims of "pediatric homicide." This is why not even the parents saw the bodies of their allegedly dead children - again... what really happened? We don't know and we've been blocked from knowing.

By the way, they (Homeland Sec and other Feds) terrorized the southeastern part of the city of Houston earlier today. They did a drill, but failed to notify police or nearby schools. The cops were on standby waiting for an active shooter and they locked down a local school. The drill centered around an abandoned school You can find that at ABC Go Local Channel 13 Houston: http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=news/local&id=8971311 - check out the comments there. Apparently, they did something similar in Miami recently.


OldWitchcraft profile image

OldWitchcraft 3 years ago from The Atmosphere

"...but too many of these conspiracy theories are asking me to believe in fraud on the part of my fellow citizens and that is an entirely different thing." Seriously?

Have you checked you local paper or local county or city jail to see how many of your fellow citizens have passed bad checks just this week?

How many people do you know who have lost a child who put up donation web sites to collect donations - the same day? I don't know of any.


OldWitchcraft profile image

OldWitchcraft 3 years ago from The Atmosphere

To my previous post regarding Rodia, I want to add this - because appearances aren't always fact, especially in the case of Sandy Hook! - that it appears to be his vehicle. We have from the mainstream media pictures of the car they took away, which bear a license plate that corresponds with the name Rodia. We, also, see darkened images with choppers flying around a car that appears to be this same vehicle as they pull out an object or objects (there are two different views of this, each revealing something different - you have to hunt to find them, but there are 2 separate video clips of a weapon or weapons being removed from the trunk of a car - official story says there was one weapon, which was an AR-15. I can only identify what appears to be a shotgun in one of them and that's not a fer sure - just a guess... it sure doesn't look like an AR-15 or any relative of such).

Now, one of the people who claims to be a witness - who has given an interview to some blond lady (well-known on TV, I think) says the shooter's car was a hatch-back. The car they took away and the one they lift the item(s) out of is not a hatchback (which is, also, called a 5-door sometimes) but a 4-door sedan. This person is another example of the unbelievable witnesses the mainstream media have been trotting out. Unless, of course, every other report and the video we've been seen is bogus - but, it has to be one or the other, so you can take your pick.


junkseller profile image

junkseller 3 years ago from Michigan

"How many people do you know who have lost a child who put up donation web sites to collect donations - the same day? I don't know of any." No one did that in Sandy Hook either, but don't let facts get in your way.


OldWitchcraft profile image

OldWitchcraft 3 years ago from The Atmosphere

Who is collecting all of the donations then? And, for whom?

How do you explain this, which was set up by the family themselves, according to Deseret News - http://emilieparkerfund.com/

Someone was allegedly arrested for setting up a site to collect donations who was not a family member. So, if those families aren't putting up web sites begging for money for themselves, then who is?

You are surely aware that many of these families had donation pages set up at FB the same day of the alleged tragedy. The fact that some of those memorial pages were apparently set up days earlier raised some red flags. You're surely aware of that.

You are surely, also, aware that millions of dollars have been raised *for* these families. How many people do you suppose lost children in this country that same day? Do you think they get a dime? No. Most people don't immediately think of begging for money when they lose a child.


junkseller profile image

junkseller 3 years ago from Michigan

The original Emilie Parker fund set up on the day of the shooting was by friends of the family, which was clearly identified on that page. Many different groups have set up fund sites. Some by friends and supporters, some by scammers, and some by the families themselves.

Don't forget that one of the first things people ask when these things happen is how they can help. Many people want to give donations, so characterizing that as being about begging for money is, once again, just plain mean. No one is being forced to give money.

The sites being up before the shooting were a red flag only for those who know very little about the internet. They are all easily explained and don't fit in with a conspiracy anyway. No one orchestrating such a grand conspiracy would be dumb enough to put up sites early.

You do realize that anyone can set up a Facebook page with any name they want don't you? There are at least a dozen Emilie Parker memorial pages on there at this very moment and really there's no way to tell who actually set any of them up.


dan plesse 3 years ago

Junkseller,

"The term means a team searching for an active shooter." this is your own words and the point I was making yet somehow you disagree. Vance said from his own side "active shooter teams" broke the windows however witnesses who called 911 already reported broken windows and an empty school (empty meaning zero sounds like the constant chatter of children) as per video update 15a. now update #16 is going include OldWitchcraft materials and a collection of more issues. I might summarize update 15a - early report updates but I might not. The last one was "Wayne Carver, Chief Medical Examiner-TMY.PDF.avi Bill 1054 the Means to Cover up A fake Drill " or Bill 1054 the Means to Cover up A fake Drill bill http://youtu.be/9jIcJOqZxnk


dan plesse 3 years ago

I looked up Junkseller's http://hubpages.com/politics/Sandy-Hook-Conspiracy... and the first thing I looked at was:

"Weapons used (starts @3:35 of video)"

I said was a " Saiga 12 Shotgun" your take "conclusion of the conspiracy theorist" is a .223 I followed up with links but somehow you head down some stupid road.

I could look at it more but the information I have seen is wrong and is designed to sell a story.

Even your "Andrea McCarren" story is wrong and watered down and the funny thing is you don't provide a link to review the situation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TmrbfjhbBSY

The quote you missed "Very caring Experienced kindergarten teacher " NOT "wonderful kindergarten teacher."

Every issue you raised was wrong, missing, zero quotes and a waste of time. etc etc etc.

OldWitchcraft should write a debunking the debunker article.


junkseller profile image

junkseller 3 years ago from Michigan

Dan Plesse,

You stated earlier, to Lt. Vance, that his teams were not the "active shooter teams." I disagreed and said that they are the active shooter teams. I'm not sure what the confusion is about this. Perhaps we are on the same page and I misunderstood what you are saying.

He also stated that his teams made multiple entry points and broke windows to do so, that doesn't mean they broke a window at the entrance.

As for my article there again seems to be some confusion. In the video that I was reviewing, it was stated that the weapon pulled from the trunk was the .223. I disagreed with that conclusion. I wasn't reviewing any of your material.

As for the Andrea McCarren part, I didn't misquote her. I was paraphrasing, hence the fact that they weren't in quotes, but I'm not going to discuss my article here, to any length.


dan plesse 3 years ago

Junkseller,

To be clear Lt. Vance was responding to question about the broken front entrance, he then attempted to debunk this issue and said his "active shooter teams" which should have been "active shooter response team" (at best) and outside the context of drill he should have referred to his officers, his staff, his department, guys he work with or anything that personalizes "the team" he works with everyday by referring to the officers by name or via a joke "this fool over here broke the windows" Issue 1-a is the 911 response over radio and witnesses to the front entrances said the window was already broken before Lt. Vance [sec] "active shooter team/s" broke the windows."

point #2

Police Find Long Gun In Trunk Of Car

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLrxSgkqJQc

info section says:

"Aerial of police finding a loaded long gun in the trunk of a car in the school parking lot appears to be a shotgun"

What part of that sentence says otherwise?

Point #3 Can you at least use the actual quotes because paraphrasing is not allowed while the info is right in front of you? Your "paraphrasing" looks to fit an agenda of dis-info.

Please make these changes. The math you have done seems to wrong via "paraphrasing" Let not do paraphrasing anymore.


OldWitchcraft profile image

OldWitchcraft 3 years ago from The Atmosphere

Junkseller,

We're going in circles now - this - "The original Emilie Parker fund set up on the day of the shooting was by friends of the family, which was clearly identified on that page. Many different groups have set up fund sites. Some by friends and supporters, some by scammers, and some by the families themselves." - is what I said. And, when *I* said it, you insinuated this was non-factual.

If I say something that is a true statement, it's just as true as when you say it and vice versa, again and again -' round and 'round.

These people have begged for a *lot* of money - a tremendous lot and a great deal has been raised on their behalf. Maybe you think that's normal - I don't think so. I think the phrase, "follow the money," might apply very nicely here.

You say, "The sites being up before the shooting were a red flag only for those who know very little about the internet. "

So, you know the technical aptitude of every person who has looked at the bizarre timing inconsistencies of some of these sites on the web, do you?

Even if it is possible to alter the time stamp at a site and I know of no way to do this at Twitter (unless there is some 3rd party application I don't know about - but why would anyone want to do that, anyway?) and the only way I know to do it with a web page is maybe by adjusting the time zone and that's not going to get you far. I used to be a professional web designer up until a couple of years ago, so I'm pretty familiar with web design and the back end of Google and Yahoo and I use Twitter. I couldn't tell you about sites like Facebook and Vimeo, though. There were a tremendous number of web sites and pages apparently set up as much as 30 days in advance - is it possible that someone had fore-knowledge of these people's deaths and should this not be investigated? Do you think maybe the killer or killers might have set up one or more of these pages - maybe knowing who they planned to kill? I don't know the answer. I'm just asking the obvious question because even if it is possible to adjust the dates on all of these various types of web sites, why on earth would anyone do that?


OldWitchcraft profile image

OldWitchcraft 3 years ago from The Atmosphere

Dan Plesse,

Re: Time Stamp - at Google or elsewhere (yahoo, etc) this is something that takes place automatically. It's part of the system. I can see the time zone being incorrect might cause the time to appear the day before or the day after depending..., but that's all I can come up with. I haven't seen a good explanation for it or seen a tutorial anywhere on how to adjust the time stamp that is shown in the search engines - nor can I come up with any legitimate reason why anyone would even want to do such a thing.

I think some of the others could be explained away by some quirk of the particular site, but it doesn't explain all of them. Moreover, it doesn't explain why there would be so many of these anomalies. This business of the premature time stamps is one of the finer cracks in the foundation of the official narrative - there are some much bigger cracks along with some big, gaping holes! The timing thing just made a lot of people look twice - that reminds me have you seen the People Magazines with the deceased on the cover that has a mailing label dated Dec 12 on it? If there's a good explanation for that, I'd like to hear it.

Thanks for the link... Lots of photos associated with this story seem to be doctored.

The Peter Lanza photos seem to be the same photo recycled... just weird! I'll have a look at the link... thanks, again.


Dan Plesse profile image

Dan Plesse 3 years ago from Saint James, New York

" that reminds me have you seen the People Magazines with the deceased on the cover that has a mailing label dated Dec 12 on it?

No! I am interested - do you have a link? Junkseller could be gone however there is always "outs" in every issue. He used a good many of them replying to me and used the term "Conspiracy theorists" as a blanket statement which includes me 100% while saying he did not use any of my material. Please Contact me YT inbox me there. thanks


OldWitchcraft profile image

OldWitchcraft 3 years ago from The Atmosphere

Dan Plesse,

I'd be glad to share info. about Sandy Hook through your YT inbox. Are you FreedomBrief? If not, what's your YT handle?


OldWitchcraft profile image

OldWitchcraft 3 years ago from The Atmosphere

Dan, please, see the following 2 YT links:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9UElCcxOPg

(This video is pretty blurry, but you can hear the narrator explaining what she is showing you.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FvOmkvG2cVA

(Here she got a good picture - it's very clear, but it's short.)


junkseller profile image

junkseller 3 years ago from Michigan

Dan Plesse,

There are lots of examples of police using the term "active shooter team" for real-life events. I have no idea where you have gotten the idea that it is drill-only terminology. Unless you have some source, I think you are just plain wrong.

I don't know why we are talking about the long gun in the trunk. Seems pretty clear what was found.

Not sure what your beef is with paraphrasing. Andrea McCarren was herself paraphrasing what Nurse Cox said, so even if I accurately quoted McCarren, I'd still be paraphrasing Cox. And considering how wrong McCarren's reporting was, I don't really mind not accurately quoting her. Either way, there's no meaningful distinction between "wonderful kindergarten teacher" and "very caring experienced kindergarten teacher." It is an obtuse point.


junkseller profile image

junkseller 3 years ago from Michigan

OldWitchcraft,

You stated that a fund for Emilie Parker was set up the day of the shooting by the family, but the Facebook page in question clearly stated that it was set up by two friends of the family, not the family themselves. I haven't seen any evidence that any family, themselves, set up fund pages the day of the shooting. Even if they had, I don't really see a problem with that anyway.

I see nothing abnormal in this. Money is donated to families in virtually every tragedy that ever transpires. Even smaller local tragedies often have some sort of fund established for the family.

Publicly available dates on the internet are in my experience wildly inaccurate to the point of uselessness, so that an odd date, to me, is the norm, not a "red flag." Facebook especially which seemed to be the most commonly identified site with odd dates. That's not to say it isn't in some cases curious, just not a red flag.


Dan Plesse profile image

Dan Plesse 3 years ago from Saint James, New York

JunkSeller,

"There are lots of examples of police using the term "active shooter team" to the press after a shooting. Can you provide links or anything to the effect of the police referrer to their own staff as anonymous active shooters or even anonymous "active shooter response team"?

Do you agree that Vance was debunking reports of Adam or Mr. X breaking the front entrance? Hence also debunks your reply about which windows was not defined! You seem to let that drop, why is that?

"I don't know why we are talking about the long gun in the trunk. Seems pretty clear what was found."

Because you said that"conclusion of the conspiracy theorist is that the gun being pulled from the trunk is the .223 Bushmaster"

While the video clearly states that is WAS NOT .223 Bushmaster!!" and in the info area again WAS NOT .223 Bushmaster!! 100% wrong - so please update that!

If you not going to update to "experienced kindergarten teacher" can you at least put up video showing the issue?

It can't be an obtuse point if you not willing to tell truth. Something about that word "experienced " and not showing the video combined proves my point that you have a disinformation agenda.

Adam Lanza Updated Photo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCF_6908nAk


OldWitchcraft profile image

OldWitchcraft 3 years ago from The Atmosphere

Junkseller,

So, you're fine with these families making millions of dollars while prancing around on the television on the graves of their dead children. Okay.

What about the old man who allegedly took the kids into his house and gave them juice? He's collecting donations, too. He's been caught in all kinds of lies besides those very obvious ones contained in the vid at my article. I have a copy of the cached google page that tells about him and his connection with the local cable television board. "Conspiracy theorists" aren't making things up - this is coming from supposedly reputable mainstream meda sources and from information placed out by the people involved in this drama, themselves.


Pinkchic18 profile image

Pinkchic18 3 years ago from Minnesota

Interesting. I'm not sure what to think of it all, but it's good to have information of all sorts. Thank you for sharing this hub.


junkseller profile image

junkseller 3 years ago from Michigan

Dan Plesse,

The point about the "active shooter team" terminology is that it wouldn't make any sense to use different terminology from drill to real-life. That would defeat the purpose of doing drills. Not everyone uses the exact same terminology. Listening to Clackamas mall shooting audio, you can hear officers mention "quick response teams." http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RepVhV_woj4 Albuquerque uses "active shooter response team" as can be heard in a press conference regarding the Emcore shooting. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9yjyplX1VA I'm sure there are other examples.

I don't really find this a relevant issue, so I'm not going to spend much effort proving it, You, however, are trying to make the claim that such a thing as drill-only terminology exists, so you are the one who should actually put forth some evidence.

As for the windows, official accounts have been exceptionally clear. Officers made numerous entry points and broke windows doing so. There has been no report, that I am aware of, detailing how many windows were broken or where they were broken. Nor have they stated how or where Adam made his entry.


junkseller profile image

junkseller 3 years ago from Michigan

OldWitchcraft,

What I am NOT fine with is your meanness. Even if you were right, which I don't for a millisecond believe, I see no reason for comments such as "prancing around on the television on the graves of their dead children." It's uncouth.


OldWitchcraft profile image

OldWitchcraft 3 years ago from The Atmosphere

Junkseller,

Well, there's an argument - I'm a big ol' meanie because I object to fraud. LOL!

Is that all you've got left?


dan plesse 3 years ago

Junkseller,

It seems that when the shooter is anonymous the reference point gets anonymous label just like they do in drills. So I guess you are right on that point. And response teams are referred to as "active shooter teams" and Vance must have dropped the "response" part by mistake however he did say they broke the all windows and that Adam broke zero windows. That includes all windows in existence. So you won the small battle but I won the war because who broke the windows is more important then terminology. So "detailing how many windows were broken or where they were broken" makes no difference. I actually have video of the broken window at the front entrance. I will post that as update 16B.


junkseller profile image

junkseller 3 years ago from Michigan

Old Witchcraft,

I don't spend time around people with a penchant for nastiness.


OldWitchcraft profile image

OldWitchcraft 3 years ago from The Atmosphere

Junkseller,

Then, you must have a difficult time being alone.

The fraud perpetrated by the media at Sandy Hook has hurt a lot of innocent people - including a great number of law-abiding citizens in the State of New York. No sympathy for them, their families or their children?


junkseller profile image

junkseller 3 years ago from Michigan

Dan Plesse,

The comments I have seen that Lt. Vance made about windows was from his press conference on Dec 15, Saturday morning. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6BicBbrBoWw

"as the rescue crews arrived, the active shooting teams entered the school, they entered the school from several different points, and it necessitated forcing their way in to gain access ... Hence, law enforcement broke many windows." That doesn't mean all broken windows were broken by law enforcement or that they always broke windows to get in.

At that same conference, Lt. Vance said that Adam forced his way in but did not specify how.

In an interview on Dec 15, Lt. George Sinko (Newtown police) stated that "it appears that [Lanza] shattered the glass adjacent to the doors to enter the building. That's one of the things we're still looking into..." http://video.today.msnbc.msn.com/today/50208049#50... Him saying "appears" and "still looking into" suggests that it is still somewhat speculative.

So, it's definitely not answered, but it does seem consistent to me.


Dan Plesse profile image

Dan Plesse 3 years ago from Saint James, New York

Are you paraphrasing again? (lying)

It starts with a question

"Can you please talk about shattered glass at the entrance of the school?"

reply

"We have established a point of entry" and "he was not voluntary let in" (he was not buzzed in let as earlier reports have stated, inside job etc) "That he forced his way in" - Who witnessed this?

The reporter then asks

QUESTION: Are there broken windows at the school?

"Quite, frankly, that's something, again, if you take it out of context, it sounds suspicious."

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1212/15/smn...

He is says don't be suspicious about broken windows!

This is the quote you choose to drop, along with all the reporters question removing context.

What Lt. George Sinko and others say is again off topic. Which is something you have a habit of doing and I don't know why.

He also says " But as the rescue crews arrived, the active shooting teams entered the school" when means he did the shooting.


Dan Plesse profile image

Dan Plesse 3 years ago from Saint James, New York

SANDY HOOK SHOOTING INVESTIGATION Update 16b

Sandy Hook Elementary School Front Entrance, Adam Lanza photo etc.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5Oo95Dc_4Q


tillsontitan profile image

tillsontitan 3 years ago from New York

Well, without taking sides or entering into this lively debate I will say Sara, you have written an interesting and obviously provocative hub! You've got folks fired up and debating, good controversy. All I can say is, God help the parents and children involved.

Voted up, useful, and interesting.


my_girl_sara profile image

my_girl_sara 3 years ago from Georgia Author

Thanks to everyone for reading and debating this issue. We're living in a different world now and we can't believe on face value what people say to us--including our government!


my_girl_sara profile image

my_girl_sara 3 years ago from Georgia Author

Can't believe they are tearing down Sandy Hook Elementary. Has anyone ever seen photos or cellphone video of the inside? You never will. They've conveniently passed a law that "protects privacy" of those who were victimized, outlawing any photos or video.

Remember the recent tornadoes in Oklahoma? Lots of cell phone footage. None from Sandy Hook. Huh?


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 3 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio

my_girl_sara you wrote quite a hub here. You really did. Why don't people see how much the government is trying to control us? When things like this keep happening, do they just watch TV like robots?


my_girl_sara profile image

my_girl_sara 3 years ago from Georgia Author

Thank goodness for the internet!


bgamall profile image

bgamall 2 years ago from Las Vegas, Nevada

Your video is not working, but clearly Sandy Hook was a hoax. There is more proof all the time. There were no tears, and no red eyes. Two folks even used the tried and true secret of method acting, hyperventilation!

Sandy Hook was an obvious hoax, and is a Zionist plot. My natural father was Jewish but I am adopted and I know an evil plot when I see it. Zionism seeks to take over the United States of America.


my_girl_sara profile image

my_girl_sara 2 years ago from Georgia Author

Thanks for telling me about the video. Wonder if there's a "reason" they took it down.

You hate to be suspicious of tragic events but these facts don't add up.

Thanks for the comment.


my_girl_sara profile image

my_girl_sara 2 years ago from Georgia Author

It's been over year since the Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting. The school is demolished (that was fast.) The videos depicting the lack of what I thought was true emotion from the parents ARE GONE! That's right, YouTube has taken down these videos.

The truth is easy to stand behind. Lies require lots of work to keep covered up. This story is not over.


bgamall profile image

bgamall 2 years ago from Las Vegas, Nevada

Yes, you are right about lies requiring a lot of work. Here are some videos about Sandy Hook that are live and kicking:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RlLVurwE7yw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g4d2g9XIFnE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFo3x_UgQ80

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFo3x_UgQ80


my_girl_sara profile image

my_girl_sara 2 years ago from Georgia Author

I will have to watch these videos and maybe add them to my blog. Thanks so much!!


bgamall profile image

bgamall 2 years ago from Las Vegas, Nevada

You are very welcome Sara. There are others too. :))


bgamall profile image

bgamall 2 years ago from Las Vegas, Nevada

Oh, and I just completed a hub on the same subject. Check it out Sara.


my_girl_sara profile image

my_girl_sara 2 years ago from Georgia Author

I'll check it out... such a fascinating topic!


John 2 years ago

You can say whatever you want. But when you have to reach for far-fetched explanations on over 100 different 'problems' with an event, that's a clear indication of a contrived event.

Real events don't require legions of officials to explain them. They are fairly straightforward.


Sami Hanson profile image

Sami Hanson 2 years ago from Kansas

You're not alone in your thinking, Sara. I for the longest time have thought it was faked (not during the time it actually happened, but just over the lack of reliable evidence as you mentioned in your hub). You're not a horrible person for feeling the way you do.

However, that being said, I think the best thing to do is to have teachers that are armed. Schools encounter shootings all of the time despite having security officers, locked doors, etc, but these things still happen. You end up having teachers with no weapons trying to protect the children with all that they can--- and most of the time, it costs them their lives. The thing is, if teachers want to be armed and protected, they should have that right. Of course teachers would have to take the proper gun courses, licensing, and storing it properly so that a student cannot get access to it. At the end of the day, if someone is coming me and my students, I'm shooting the SOB.


my_girl_sara profile image

my_girl_sara 2 years ago from Georgia Author

You sound a lot like me. When I sub, I feel very responsible for the lives of those students entrusted to my care. While a gun might not be practical in a school environment, definitely some kind of weapon.

Thanks for reading. Thanks for the comment!


Karen KLD 9 months ago

Good article! I believed this story at first, but when I saw the first parent interview a couple of days later, that was a big red flag for me. No tears! I would have been a wreck and not even want to talk to anyone.


my_girl_sara profile image

my_girl_sara 9 months ago from Georgia Author

Now the parents of the children who were supposedly killed are pushing for more gun control. All that does is take guns out of the hands of law-abiding citizens, not stop criminals.

Thanks for reading and thanks for the comment!

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