Steve Jobs--A Dissenting View

Steve Jobs
Steve Jobs | Source
Bill Gates
Bill Gates | Source
Warren Buffett
Warren Buffett | Source

"Steve Jobs, An American 'Disgrace'"

In The Nation, November 28, 2011, Eric Alterman presents a dissenting view of Steve Jobs who has received nearly universal praise since his death for his inventive genius and Ahab-like quest for perfection in Apple products. This is beyond dispute. Eric Alterman acknowledges Jobs's accomplishments but pulls no punches in pointing to some of Jobs' less attractive characteristics and actions.

Jobs in many ways was an Ayn Randian character, straight out of Atlas Shrugged, who treated the workers who produced Apple products like serfs, and who hoarded his $8.3 billion fortune "to no apparent purpose." Apple has done extremely well by its investors and the customers who buy its products. But Apple is an "engine of misery" for the subcontracted Chinese workers at Foxconn company that employs 430,000 workers in Dickensian conditions at its Shenzhen plant which manufactures products for Apple and other electronics companies.

The downside of Steve Jobs is currently the subject of a one-man show by monologist Mike Daisey entitled The Agony and the Ecstasy of Steve Jobs at the Public Theater in New York. Daisy visited the Foxconn plant and covertly interviewed a number of workers at Foxconn who are housed in huge, prison-like dormitories, eat company food, sometimes work 34-hour shifts, are exposed to unsafe and unhealthful working conditions and brutal supervisors. Daisy insists that Steve Jobs was in the best position of anyone to improve these conditions because of Apple's huge profit margins. If Apple had pressed for improvements at Foxconn other companies would likely have followed suit. "But Jobs didn't care. He even instructed Obama that the U.S. had to behave more like China in the manner in which it encouraged corporations to act free of regulations or concern for their employees and their environment.

Andrew Ross Sorkin commented in the New York Times before Jobs' death "wondering why Jobs seemed so stingy with his fortune--noting that Jobs did away with all the company's charity programs (which were restored after his departure in August)." Aside from Jobs's personal fortune of $8.3 billion, Apple is sitting on $76 billion in cash and investments in Braeburn Capital in Reno, Nevada, which Apple "created for the purpose of managing its cash and short-term investments in a tax-advantageous manner. (Nevada has no corporate or capital gains tax.)

Alterman says he'll take Gates or Buffett over Steve Jobs every time and suggests that billionaires embrace the "morality and wisdom of Andrew Carnegie: The man who dies rich...dies disgraced."

Alterman's article about Steve Jobs reminds me of an article in Harpers by Lewis H. Lapham entitled "Elegy For a Rubber Stamp: Tim Russert" which he was prompted to write after the praise that was heaped on Russert upon his demise and NBC's week-long exploitation of his death. http://ralphdeeds.hubpages.com/hub/Elegy-for-a-Rubber-Stamp--Tim-Russert

[I am indebted to Eric Alterman's article Steve Jobs: An American 'Disgrace' in The Nation, November 28, 2010]


Jobs on Philanthropy in 1985 Playboy Interview Eric Jackson in Forbes 8-31-11

One reader pointed out that Jobs had really directly responded to these points in a 1985 Playboy Interview:

[1985 Interview]

What does the money actually mean to you?

Jobs: I still don’t understand it. It’s a large responsibility to have more than you can spend in your lifetime–and I feel I have to spend it. If you die, you certainly don’t want to leave a large amount to your children. It will just ruin their lives. … Almost everyone would think that he could invest the money back into humanity in a much more astute way than the Government could. The challenges are to figure out how to live with it and to reinvest it back into the world, which means either giving it away or using it to express your concerns or values.

So what do you do?

Jobs: That’s a part of my life that I like to keep private. When I have some time, I’m going to start a public foundation. I do some things privately now.

You could spend all of your time disbursing your money.

Jobs: Oh, you have to. I’m convinced that to give away a dollar effectively is harder than to make a dollar.

Could that be an excuse to put off doing something?

Jobs: No. There are some simple reasons for that. One is that in order to learn how to do something well, you have to fail sometimes. In order to fail, there has to be a measurement system. And that’s the problem with most philanthropy–there’s no measurement system. You give somebody some money to do something and most of the time you can really never measure whether you failed or succeeded in your judgment of that person or his ideas or their implementation. So if you can’t succeed or fail, it’s really hard to get better. Also, most of the time, the people who come to you with ideas don’t provide the best ideas. You go seek the best ideas out, and that takes a lot of time.

If you plan to use your visibility to create a model for people, why is this one of the areas you choose not to discuss?

Jobs: Because I haven’t done anything much yet. In that area, actions should speak the loudest.

[Jackson was long AAPL at time of publication]

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Comments 54 comments

tirelesstraveler profile image

tirelesstraveler 4 years ago from California

I was wondering when someone was going to mention the true Steve Jobs. The messiah,Jobs became at his death was most amazing. Those who work in the industry would agree with you.


Jean Bakula profile image

Jean Bakula 4 years ago from New Jersey

Although I admire Steve Jobs for his achievements, I also heard many negative things about him. Look what his rival Bill Gates has done to improve the lives of so many with his fortune. It hasn't gone to his head. I was sort of happy to hear about the other side. It's not necessary to make everyone a hero when they die.


Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds 4 years ago Author

Thanks for your comments. I guess Steve Jobs wasn't the first genius who was hard to get along with and had some minuses as well as pluses.


Paraglider profile image

Paraglider 4 years ago from Kyle, Scotland

Interesting angle, Ralph. The Andrew Carnegie quote sent me off to read more about him. There was a Carnegie library in my first home town, where I spent many hours reading and studying. All in all, Carnegie was a far more interesting character than Mr Jobs!


Jools99 profile image

Jools99 4 years ago from North-East UK

Interesting hub. I think its a shame that because Gates and Jobs were professional rivals some journalists felt the need to do his obituary as a kind of 'he's dead, now let's say what we really think'. They should have waited a bit longer out of respect.


lovemychris profile image

lovemychris 4 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

"He even instructed Obama that the U.S. had to behave more like China in the manner in which it encouraged corporations to act free of regulations or concern for their employees and their environment."

That's disturbing. I hope that idea doesn't take hold.Marianis Island is another one with conditions like that....how many more?


barranca profile image

barranca 4 years ago

I like this one Ralph. I was not one of those acting like he was some kind of saint. All this talk celebrating "Entrepreneurship" annoys me. Now teachers are being told that it is our job to create entrepreneurs. How to screw workers in 10 easy steps.


claptona profile image

claptona 4 years ago from Earth

Interesting point of views.

So, lets close down the "unGodly bad factories in China and put them back out in the fields tilling by hand."

Or should we be arm chair "financial guru's" and tell others how to spend their fortunes, though we had nothing to do with building them?

Jobs did what he did- he was a smart guy who produced an excellent product. He utilized workers the way the way any industrialist would - paid cheaply, and sold his product at a high price.

If the world objected to the way he ran his business, all they had to do was not buy his product. That is the choice of the consumer.

So, goes to show you where the mindset of most people is - "give me cheap products and I do not care about the workers who produce them"

The place to show your objections is in the market place. And the market place says no one cares about the workers - the better products are more important.

The reality of freedom and free enterprise is hard to take when it is based on pocket books vs. ideology.

'nuff said by me.

To your continued success!

Cheers,

John D. Wilson


Gypsy Willow profile image

Gypsy Willow 4 years ago from Lake Tahoe Nevada USA , Wales UK and Taupo New Zealand

John D. Wilson has made a good comment. Personally I have to thank Steve for my Macbook and my Ipad!


mewlhouse profile image

mewlhouse 4 years ago from Louisville

Thanks, Ralph. I am sure there will be plenty of pros and cons written about one of our country's greatest innovators of all time. I am currently enjoying immensely my reading of Walter Isaacson's biography titled STEVE JOBS. He, Steve Jobs, certainly was not perfect. It is a book I do not want to end.


Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds 4 years ago Author

John & Gypsy, the critics aren't suggesting that the Chinese plants be closed down, but rather that Steve Jobs was in a position to bring about improvement in the abysmal conditions under which his products were produced. He, personally, and Apple made billions off workers in unsafe, unhealthful, polluting plants. China and Foxconn and Apple have failed to learn from the mistakes of industrialization made earlier in the U.S. and other industrialized countries such as providing mechanisms to assure fair treatment of workers, worker safety, unemployment and worker's compensation, the drawbacks of company towns, stores, etc.


Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds 4 years ago Author

Thanks, Mewlhouse for your comment. Please comment again as you read Isaacson's book.


mewlhouse profile image

mewlhouse 4 years ago from Louisville

Actually I am almost through with the book. About a hundred and twenty pages to go. The iPad is almost ready to be introduced and Jobs has a recurring cancer to beat the band. One of the most striking things I have witnessed in the book is the confusion of some over how a person like Jobs could be so sensitive and thin-skinned but also be so abusive and demeaning to others. These people seem to think Jobs should have been more sensitive because of his own condition. I like the explanation by one that much of it was actually a ruse in which he got people to do what he wanted as he aimed for his version of perfection. He was a master manipulator, but I believe that being so does not make him evil. I am interested more in why he did not do much of anything in the philanthropic sense. I know he thought Gates did too much, perhaps in order to look too good. Or maybe guilt. I do not know. But Jobs did not want to be in that game. And, for some reason, he did not mind being called an asshole either.


Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds 4 years ago Author

I've been meaning to buy the book. I do like the comment that Jobs was a real life John Galt straight out of "Atlas Shrugged."

I'm sure that's an over-simplification. I don't begrudge him the money he made. At least he was personally responsible for much of Apple's success in contrast to the typical, bureaucratic American CEO who never had an original idea in his career but expects to be paid $15 million/year.


alekhouse profile image

alekhouse 4 years ago from Louisville, Kentucky

Jobs certainly was a fascinating personality. I enjoyed your take on him...the good and the bad. Thanks for the review.


Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds 4 years ago Author

Thanks for your comment. I really didn't try to have a take on Jobs. My Hub was more of a report on Eric Alterman's (whom I admire)dissenting view on Jobs. Jobs was clearly a genius who made many innovative contributions to the computer, movie and other industries. He deserves plenty of credit, but he had some imperfections, also, as we all do.


ryankett 4 years ago

I offended a lot of American people on another website when I pointed out that Steve Jobs, business genius that he was, actually had a lot of undesirable traits. In fact, he was often contradictory (or hypocritical), a Buddhist who took no pleasure in sharing wealth (see Bhogasukha), a flag waving democrat yet determined to hold on to every possible bit of his vast wealth (including through tax loopholes), an environmentalist yet the CEO of a company which lagged way behind competitors (including Dell and HP) in terms of reducing hazardous substances in products.

Yes he created jobs, yes the world needs jobs, but I can only really see the ultimate capitalist with no real interest other than to create personal wealth. He could hardly be considered a 'nice' individual either, he always came across as very bitter and unnecessarily nasty (perhaps jealous) when talking about competitors such as Bill Gates. Steve Jobs was one of my least favourite individuals pre-death and nothing changed upon death, albeit I wouldn't wish death or illness upon anybody. He worked hard, he made lots of money, well done him. Unfortunately he died early, some people do, but the world doesn't stop turning.

There have been many inventors who have created amazing things and died relatively unwealthy and unknown, arguably with a greater impact on a wider number of people. The iPad may be an awesome gadget, but it hasn't changed the lives of anywhere near as many people as simple inventions such as the wind up radio have.

I'm not sure that I understand the god-like worship of Jobs, Apple, and their products, but it is that worship which has made him rich. Personally I have only ever owned 1 Apple product and that was a gift!


Wizard Of Whimsy profile image

Wizard Of Whimsy 4 years ago from The Sapphire City

I've had Apple products since 1984. Jobs' visionary innovation and uncompromising persistence, as well as his prescient design sense and artistry, coupled with a relentless devotion to develop and refine every Apple product has changed and enhanced the world in countless ways. Moreover, he has significantly improved the working and playing lives of countless people on this planet. Legless critics will always judge runners and blind-men can never appreciate the visual splendor of our Milky Way. And besides, who of us is perfect in every way?


ryankett 4 years ago

@Wizard of Whimsy - There is no doubt that he was an extremely talented man with a lot of fans, but how exactly did he change the world? The Mac was not the first personal computer, the iPod was not the first MP3 player, the iPad was not the first tablet PC, the iPhone was not the first phone with internet access and wasn't the first phone to play MP3 files.

Jobs/Apple were fantastic business people who could take existing technology and design and market it in such a way that millions of loyal consumers such as yourself would buy it at a large premium. I know that Apple haven't changed the world because I sit here typing on a non-Apple laptop, next to a table with my non-Apple phone, my non-Apple MP3 player, and with my HDTV with built in freeview which again has nothing to do with Apple.

Is your life richer than mine because your gadgets have an apple on them? I doubt it. In fact, the money that I save my buying blackberries, Toshiba laptops, and Samsung TVs will make me literally richer because it sometimes goes into my pension funds and will enrich my soul and because it is spent on seeing the world - I travel without gadgets on purpose, no laptops allowed.

Can you give me one decent example of how your life is better than mine because you use Apple branded products? I would argue that I have a lot more money held in equities than my Apple loving friends.


mewlhouse profile image

mewlhouse 4 years ago from Louisville

I suppose for all those Jobs haters out there simply reading the last four pages of the Isaacson biography "Steve Jobs" will suffice. These last pages are the words of Jobs and not the reporter alone, or with help, demonstrating all the innovations, improvements, design, and relationships that made the wealthy middle-class man show warts and rose and prickly thorn.


Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds 4 years ago Author

Thanks, everyone for the interesting comments.


Gypsy Willow profile image

Gypsy Willow 4 years ago from Lake Tahoe Nevada USA , Wales UK and Taupo New Zealand

The poor man has died of a horrible painful illness, He was truly amazing. Leave him to rest in peace.


Wizard Of Whimsy profile image

Wizard Of Whimsy 4 years ago from The Sapphire City

"Is your life richer than mine because your gadgets have an apple on them? I doubt it. In fact, the money that I save my buying blackberries, Toshiba laptops, and Samsung TVs will make me literally richer because it sometimes goes into my pension funds and will enrich my soul and because it is spent on seeing the world - I travel without gadgets on purpose, no laptops allowed."

Can you give me one decent example of how your life is better than mine because you use Apple branded products? I would argue that I have a lot more money held in equities than my Apple loving friends."

First, I made no statement that my life was richer than yours—you jujitsued what I said into a pissing contest, not I. Your take reminds me of the typical detractor of modern art who says: "I know what I like!" when what they really mean is: I like what I KNOW!

I'll give you more than one example . . .

1. Jobs was instrumental in developing the Apple desktop and mouse interface that made navigation on a computer infinitely easier for the average user who didn't want to memorize MS DOS commands. Bill Gates stole Apple's ideas to mask MS DOS in the most inelegant ways imaginable but because business people wanted "cheap," it took decades for most people to recognize the headaches they had to live with on the PC platform.

2. I have NEVER had a computer virus on any MAC I've ever owned—can you say that?

3. Apple was the first company to flawlessly integrate software and hardware ideas— concepts like "plug&play" for example—and countless other software/hardware innovations. PC has been a historic nightmare when it comes to ease of use and software/hardware integration

4. Jobs was instrumental in changing the music industry. I've listened to countless lectures and music on iPods that have been elegantly integrated with all of my hardware—increasing my awareness and appreciation for art and knowledge and all of the gifts technology should offer.

5. Jobs changed the movie industry and has enchanted innumerable kids (young & old) through his direction at PIXAR.

I can go on, but I suspect I won't make the slightest dent in your petty bias and obvious resentment of Job's contributions to world culture and the ineffable joy of those people smart enough to recognize his generous spirit and gifts.

Was he a pain in the ass to live with and work for? I have no doubt, but so what!


ryankett 4 years ago

1. It cannot be denied that Jobs & co designed some fantastic consumer electronics, unfortunately that does little for the 90% of the world which will never be able to afford a new Apple device of any sort.

2. I have never had a virus which has resulted in permanent damage to any PC or the loss of any important data. Mac viruses are an increasing threat, you may not be saying this in a couple of years!

3. 'Plug and play' is in itself a reference first used by Windows upon launch of Windows 95.

4. I had an Archos Jukebox before the first iPod had even been released, it was easy to use. The iPod came a full two years after Napster for christ sake. Apple take existing products and made them easier to use, that's what they did well. To claim that the revolutionized the industry by creating a device to play a file type that had been already been around for 8 years and was already being played on numerous other devices is just silly. I assume that you are referring to iTunes, but the drag and drop method used by previous MP3 players is arguably easier than syncing with iTunes.

5. Yes, Toy Story was a great movie.

I could go on and on too, but we just won't agree on this point, so we can agree to disagree.


Wizard Of Whimsy profile image

Wizard Of Whimsy 4 years ago from The Sapphire City

1. It cannot be denied that Jobs & co designed some fantastic consumer electronics, unfortunately that does little for the 90% of the world which will never be able to afford a new Apple device of any sort.

As I said, people want "cheap" and they get what they pay for—badly designed crap.

__________________________________________________________________________________

2. I have never had a virus which has resulted in permanent damage to any PC or the loss of any important data. Mac viruses are an increasing threat, you may not be saying this in a couple of years!

So you can't say you never had a virus or that you have been part of a botnet.

__________________________________________________________________________________

3. 'Plug and play' is in itself a reference first used by Windows upon launch of Windows 95.

Regardless of the term, the PC platform has a long and extensive history of hardware/software incompatibilities and bugs—far fewer than Apple—a point you conveniently evade.

__________________________________________________________________________________

4. I had an Archos Jukebox before the first iPod had even been released, it was easy to use. The iPod came a full two years after Napster for christ sake. Apple take existing products and made them easier to use, that's what they did well. To claim that the revolutionized the industry by creating a device to play a file type that had been already been around for 8 years and was already being played on numerous other devices is just silly. I assume that you are referring to iTunes, but the drag and drop method used by previous MP3 players is arguably easier than syncing with iTunes.

Yet more convenient amnesia? You seem preoccupied with money and profits, so where is Napster today and how does it compare to iTunes domination in the industry?—or any of the other rinky-dink companies you mention?

__________________________________________________________________________________

5. Yes, Toy Story was a great movie.

It's not just Toy Story — go to PIXAR and read their awards and innovations!

__________________________________________________________________________________

I could go on and on too, but we just won't agree on this point, so we can agree to disagree.

__________________________________________________________________________________

Whether you agree with me or not—I could care less—you are in utter denial of the facts and the reality of Job's contributions to this world of ours.


mewlhouse profile image

mewlhouse 4 years ago from Louisville

The further I get away from finishing the book the more I like Steve Jobs. He had an honesty about him that is refreshing to me. I hate having my bush beat around, and Jobs just wouldn't. I love him for that and the fact his boy did too. Can't be all bad. Good job Ralph in bringing out the best of us. It has been fun. I have enjoyed the insightful comments and arguments taking place on your hub.


ryankett 4 years ago

@Wizard of Whimsy - Looks like you have made a complete mess of that comment, what are those lines about? If you can't agree to disagree then you can clearly pick an argument with yourself, maybe you should go and do that in a mirror or something. And yes, you "could care less", indeed; the thing is that I "could not care less", you care a lot more than me. You obviously know less than you think about Napster and iPods though, it played a huge part in the success of the iPod, with no napster there would be no iPod, you are disrespecting the company that created the very market that Apple exploited with the first iPod release. Go and Google the Diamond Rio PMP300 and look at the design, read about the features, it was released in 1998 and was the perfect companion to Napstar. Apple came along three years later and they get credit for a movement that they had previously played no role in whatsoever? Napstar wasn't even Mac compatible until the year 2000.


Gypsy Willow profile image

Gypsy Willow 4 years ago from Lake Tahoe Nevada USA , Wales UK and Taupo New Zealand

I rarely make a comment like this but I think it is in really bad taste to disparage the achievements of a great innovator so newly dead. There are many more controversial subjects you could write about.


ryankett 4 years ago

@Gypsy Willow - Nobody is disparaging the achievements of Steve Jobs, it's just that some people have varied views about precisely what his achievements were and how significant they were to mankind. The idea of not speaking badly of the dead is actually a concept born out of religion, particularly Christianity, for fear of offending somebody who is looking down at you from heaven in despair. Steve Jobs was a buddhist and therefore did not believe that his soul lives on, rather that he is born again, in other words..... Steve Jobs can't read this.


Gypsy Willow profile image

Gypsy Willow 4 years ago from Lake Tahoe Nevada USA , Wales UK and Taupo New Zealand

I am a Buddhist. My comment had nothing to do with Christianity, it was respect for a great person no longer on this planet who suffered a terrible early death. Who knows what he would have done with the rest of his life given the chance.


ryankett 4 years ago

So by your logic we have to respect all people posthumously, despite not being bound by social protocol to respect them whilst they are alive? Or is your rationale that I have to respect him because you do? What exactly is a "terrible early death" by the way? Sure, he died pretty early when measured against the life expectancy of your average American, very early when measured against the life expectancy of an American with the wealth to buy an Apple Mac and an iPad, but when measured against the life expectancy of those living in many African countries he could be considered an elder. In Swaziland you can expect to reach the grand old age of 39, in Mozambique it is 39 too, in Zambia it is 42, in fact his age of death (56) was higher than the life expectancy in thirty nine African countries.

Yet whilst the world is expected to grieve and mourn the loss of this 'great' man, he lived his entire without a single care for the millions of children who die of diseases preventable or treatable with drugs costing as little as a few cents per day. Did Steve Jobs 'respect' them? Did he care enough to respect them? The list of exceedingly wealthy people who are committed to providing help to those people is huge, many through the Bill Gates foundation. Steve Jobs did nothing for them, what is it that you want me to do for him? Respect him? No. Frankly, I won't. I don't give two hoots about the death of one person, death happens, he died, you will one day, I will one day, we all do.


Gypsy Willow profile image

Gypsy Willow 4 years ago from Lake Tahoe Nevada USA , Wales UK and Taupo New Zealand

So what are you doing to help the poor children?


Wizard Of Whimsy profile image

Wizard Of Whimsy 4 years ago from The Sapphire City

ryankett- Those lines separate each of your points with my rebuttals and It was for the reader's ease.

I note, however, that you have consistently failed to address most of MY points—which is revealing. The proof is in the pudding and not who's idea came first, but rather which products changed the lives of many in this world.

Sorry if your ego is bruised, but I take issue with all of your comments and in particular, your overt bias of Apple products. Nothing you have said is either persuasive or relevant to to this disagreement.


ryankett 4 years ago

"The proof is in the pudding and not who's idea came first, but rather which products changed the lives of many in this world."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windup_radio

"So what are you doing to help the poor children?"

I bet that I donate a higher proportion of my net income than Steve Jobs did. This kind of stuff doesn't get shown on American TV: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Flgbi1TahVo

Do you have things like this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Children_in_Need

Your all too busy playing with your iPods and watching adverts encouraging you to sue eachother. I donate about 10% of my post-tax income to not-for-profits, with about half going to domestic organizations and half going overseas. But then I have never subscribed to Karma, so even if I didn't.......


ryankett 4 years ago

Claptona above said: "If the world objected to the way he ran his business, all they had to do was not buy his product. That is the choice of the consumer."

I agree. I objected, I've never purchased a single Apple product. You approved, you bought plenty. It doesn't get much more simple than that.


Wizard Of Whimsy profile image

Wizard Of Whimsy 4 years ago from The Sapphire City

If your only tool is a hammer, every solution looks like it needs a nail.

Get in touch with your inflexible bias, Ryan and let go of the petty petulance.

Nevertheleless, here is an interesting article you may enjoy . . .

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/blogs/taibblo...


ryankett 4 years ago

"We generally agreed that Jobs’s nearly undeniable assholism – particularly in the area of using child labor – made all of us accomplices in his crime."

Nope, in order to become an accomplice I would needed to have helped fund his activities, which I never did, not once.


Wizard Of Whimsy profile image

Wizard Of Whimsy 4 years ago from The Sapphire City

The either/or, black&white world you seem to live in must drive the people around you crazy.


ryankett 4 years ago

Your refusal to shake hands and walk away must get you into a lot of fights, I offered for us to agree to disagree pretty early on in this exchange. You have just as little respect for my opinion as I have of yours, there is no moral high ground to be had here. I wanted out of this argument a long time ago, to quote one of your hubs: "the angry BS that is dividing America and making our government and its politicians so dysfunctional". You seem pretty angry with me, in fact you most definitely are. I have a proposition for you, I will write a hubpage putting on record my dislike of Steve Jobs and we can continue this on there. I wanted us to agree to disagree so that we didn't hijack the comments box of somebody elses hubpage, it's gone way beyond that, but you can come and have your black&white argument on there. I'll publish the hub within by the end of the coming weekend.


Wizard Of Whimsy profile image

Wizard Of Whimsy 4 years ago from The Sapphire City

Ryan, you're projecting and upsetting yourself beyond all need. You are certainly entitled to your opinion—which is fine with me—however, your fixation with Jobs is a bit fanatical and unreasonable (which has been my only point). If you want to self-destruct, feel free, I won't stop you.

And I won't post here any more so we can end this foolishness.


UnnamedHarald profile image

UnnamedHarald 4 years ago from Cedar Rapids, Iowa

I'm tired of captains of industry who were miserable human beings blessed with saint-hood. I, too, have never bought an Apple product-- partly because of cost and partly because I have never liked the way they do business. I didn't much like the way Bill Gates ran things either but I felt less violated by the cost of Intel/Microsoft machines. On the other hand, I've come to respect Mr. Gates' philanthropy. Jobs last mission? To spend every dime of Apple's billions to kill Google.


tirelesstraveler profile image

tirelesstraveler 4 years ago from California

As one who speaks from the industry, even close personal friends of Jobs will tell you he wasn't a very nice man. He was a marketing genius.


mewlhouse profile image

mewlhouse 4 years ago from Louisville

Much like most of today's Republicans, some of us here think that if they say something disparaging about another person enough times it makes it true. I would suggest one and all to read the Steve Jobs unbiased biography by Isaacson before spreading more of their erroneous views and vitriolic hatred. I personally find the uneducated view quite boring and a waste of time.


ryankett 4 years ago

@Wizard of Whimsey - Involvement in one debate, on one hubpage, is hardly enough to constitute an 'obsession'.

@UnnamedHarald - My thoughts exactly!

@mewlhouse - There is propaganda in left wing politics too!


ryankett 4 years ago

@mewlhouse - I read a Steve Jobs biography in 2007 by the way, it was called 'iCon Steve Jobs', it was less than complimentary, received fantastic reviews, and Jobs and Apple hated it. I also considered that book 'unbiased', maybe you should give that a read.


mewlhouse profile image

mewlhouse 4 years ago from Louisville

From what I have seen here in the comments section I am really not too interested in anything you might have to say ryankett. No insult intended. For the record, however, I have enjoyed most of the other comments and appreciate what Ralph started here. I have no bone to pick with you ryankett and you are entitled to your beliefs, however misguided I, and others obviously, believe they are.


Wizard Of Whimsy profile image

Wizard Of Whimsy 4 years ago from The Sapphire City

Indeed and thanks Ralph from me as well for having your finger on the pulse of life and knowing how to provoke interest.


mewlhouse profile image

mewlhouse 4 years ago from Louisville

One last, I hope, tidbit about the philanthropic work of the Jobs family. Steve's wife, Laurene Powell co-founded COLLEGE TRACK for disadvantaged kids to ensure they could get to college. She is also a leading force in the education reform movement. Not exactly Steve, but I think being married to him, and having access to great wealth, helps. Agreed, Steve maybe was too preoccupied with ensuring that kids wouldn't have to haul around heavy back packs to school any longer with the advent of the I-pad.


Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds 4 years ago Author

I'm glad to hear about Laurene Powell's co-founding of College Track. I've been wondering what's going to happen to Jobs' $8.3 billion fortune. Here's a link to an interesting story about what has happened to another great American fortune (Estee Lauder's):

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/27/business/estee-l...

Thanks, everyone, for your thoughtful comments.


gryphin423 profile image

gryphin423 4 years ago from Florida

Thank you so much for discussing Jobs like he was, not how others seemed to want to glorify him. Dickens indeed! It is sickening. His dog and pony shows were always ridiculous. Great hub and discussion!


Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds 4 years ago Author

Thanks for your comment.


SweetiePie profile image

SweetiePie 4 years ago from Southern California, USA

I read several things about Steve Jobs, and I think he could be a bit greedy about his money. For instance, when he found out his biological dad owned a Middle Eastern restaurant he liked to eat at, Jobs did not want to introduce himself because he thought his dad would be after his money. Jobs using children to build his computers is reprehensible to me. This is sort of along the lines of Ron Paul, who I think has a few good ideas about minimizing the US involvement in the affairs of other countries, but who completely loses me on how he would just cut all social safety nets. Being a wealthy businessman and paranoid about people wanting your money is not attractive. I think Jobs was brilliant, but I never wanted to pay more for an Apple computer anyway.


tammyswallow profile image

tammyswallow 3 years ago from North Carolina

This is a very interesting take on this subject. I have to agree that if someone has enough money to change the world yet chooses to do nothing for anyone is not worthy of such praise. If you think about how much money Oprah has and all she does for people around the world, we see a great example of a gracious person. Excellent hub!


Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds 3 years ago Author

Thanks, Tammy.

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