Tea Party Intransigence: The Gathering Storm

I warn my readers in advance that this is strong stuff. But after watching Mr. Obama’s speech to the nation on the evening of July 25, 2011, regarding the debt crisis and the rebuttal by Speaker Boehner, it was not very difficult to arrive at this conclusion. That conclusion is that these Tea Party legislators are here to DESTROY democratic and representative government in America that is based on the will of the majority in favor of the whims of a small sliver of the population.

Is it not interesting to look at the comparison between the current legislative technique of the Tea Party and that of the Nazi’s in the early 1930’s?

Grover Norquist, president of the minimal tax lobbying group “Americans for Tax Reform”, requires GOP legislators to take and sign loyalty oaths to him and his precepts rather than to the American people and the Constitution. When Hitler took power he required his military to take a personal oath to him and not to the German people. This was unorthodox as he used the machinery of democratic institutions as a means of eliminating democratic institutions.

Providing the ideological struts, certain individuals using lies and misinformation deceive the masses were and are defined as the rabble rousers or goons. The most prominent being Julius Streicher and Joseph Goebbles during the Nazi period with their modern counterparts being Limbaugh, Coulter, Beck, etc.

A Right-winger is by definition in opposition with the very existence of a pluralistic and diverse society. How do a handful of extremist nuts exact their will on a rational majority?

How can they claim to really care about Ms. Liberty while they have a pistol at her head threatening her life, unless she agrees to surgery that would in effect disembowel and cost her her life in the long term?

These people are attempting a coup d’etat using threats with the intention of restructuring the entire United States Government to its ends, the ultimate goal being a plutocracy that turns the stomach. They are a troublesome minority, referred to as the ‘young guns’, but I think that ‘Storm Troopers’ is the more appropriate term. Their actions, as of late, make it clear that they are here to destroy America

The Nazi’s never intended for the hated German republic to survive, and was more than willing to go to the brink to attain to that end. What was there to lose, there was no “system” to preserve. Are the ‘storm troopers’ currently in the House of Representatives really any different?

The Right-winger fuels misdirected resentment and quickly befuddles the people into forgetting the causes of the financial/economic morass in which we currently find ourselves.

Hitler used the failing German economy and national resentment regarding the Armistice of WWI, using stirring oratory to deceive people to look at their reality from a skewed perspective. This is nothing less than a viral invasion of the body politic. The America that these people envision would not be one that most of us would want; it is the start of their ultimate goal of promoting the plutocrat/aristocrat over the middle and working classes, while coming up with phony issues to buttress their position. They are the modern Nazi’s with the desire to dismantle Government as it currently exists to be replaced by its ideologically pure model. Even the shrinking violets known as those of the GOP who expressed desire to run for president, hide behind their mothers skirts rather than buck the God himself, Grover Norquist, and his commandments that he etched in stone and handed to the ‘true believers’ from on high.

So where are the Reichstag fire and the Krystalnacht? They are coming, as it is part and parcel of the way of the Right-winger, misinform, confuse and terrify.

When it looks like it , sounds like it or smells like it, you must call it for what it is: FASCISM

I don’t think that that was the message the American electorate was sending associated with the GOP ascendancy last November, 2010



I, sitting in a position just left of center, believe the president has negotiated in good faith and sacrificed the interests of his base to get an agreement. The rightwing needs to be warned that if this issue is not resolved they are the most likely to be blamed and that is not going to look good for them in electoral contests in 2012. Abstract political concepts in the eyes of many become quite tangible when a check that is expected every month is not in the mail. Such people become politically engaged very quickly and will make the correct determination as to who is responsible.

I speak often about being willing to listen to arguments from the other side of the ideological divide. So, I put it to you, what is your explanation? All the recent polling has shown the President’s position in this crisis as the most reasonable, can you dispute this? Who would take us to brink of disaster, and disaster it is, despite the statements of all the pseudo-economists like Michelle Bachman? Who would even want to flirt with the outcome of America in default? Even Thurston Howell should be concerned, because the result is not going to be beneficial for him as with anyone else.

As the President said, no one is going to get everything they want. With 535 legislators and a chief executive, what could be more true? What the President did not say but I say is that from my perception and that of most others it appears that the other side is not negotiating in good faith, and that means there will be "hell to pay" to account.

At this point, all I can say is that only fools fight in a burning house. Who among the combatants are the most cognizant of this?

Related Article: Critical Thinking -a Lost Art?

More by this Author


43 comments

BukowskiBabe profile image

BukowskiBabe 5 years ago from Somewhere in the middle of it all.

I can't believe that you would engage in this type of hyperbole. To compare your fellow Amerians to Hitler is beyond the pale. This nation is in trouble because both sides of the aisle have failed us. At least those involved in the Tea Party movement are active in the political process. They are your fellow Amerians; not your ememy.


Credence2 profile image

Credence2 5 years ago from Florida (Space Coast) Author

BukowskiBabe, if these tea party people are not serious about negotiations taking this nation to the brink of disaster with their stubborness not to even attempt any form of comprimise, than as an American, they are my enemy Both sides may have contributed to the problem but I don't see the other side as interested in solving it. Sorry!


ShootersCenter profile image

ShootersCenter 5 years ago from Florida

You're not just out there but not even in the ball park. I must say that if you believe this you need some series help.


Credence2 profile image

Credence2 5 years ago from Florida (Space Coast) Author

Shooters, if I am "out there", if you are referring to me. Where is the ball park in your opinion and why?


BukowskiBabe profile image

BukowskiBabe 5 years ago from Somewhere in the middle of it all.

This nation is deeply in debt. Bush spent, and thus far, Obama is spending like Bush on steroids. It's evident that the more money congress and the president have to spend, the more they will waste. It's been going on for many, many years now.How much has Obama added to the debt in under three years? Oh, I forgot, President Obama is on the left. His spending doesn't count.

I guess I will call my Jewish mother-in-law tomorrow and advise her that, 'her colors don't bleed.' I think we can have this conversation without bringing Nazi Germany into the fray. At least I would hope so. By the way, you didn't merely single out the Tea Party. You singled out those on the right.

Those who use such tactics do so because they are incapable of debating the issue via logic, facts and merit. It's a dispicable tactic and an affront to those who have been truly discriminated against. Where do these generalizations of yours come from? Your words imply a hate streaked universe. Where is the love?


Credence2 profile image

Credence2 5 years ago from Florida (Space Coast) Author

Yes, Indeed BukowskiBabe, there is a problem with spending and deficits, both parties are to blame, ok I will go along with that. Statistics say that Bush had increased the deficit propotionally from Clinton at a higher rate. But I wont go into that here.

I was careful not to say "conservative" a rightwinger is an extremist, the scorthed earth philosophical thinking that was responsible for the mayhem in Norway the other day.

The tactics of the tea party legislators using their small numbers to hold the entire nation hostage is akin to the Nazi approach.

I am using logic, the facts are clear for all to see, who is taking the nation to the brink and who is not. What are you speaking of: those who have been truly discriminated against. I focus on the right because it has been their side that has been stubborn in regards to a solution relative to the other side. Am I not correct in that observation? These people had better learn the meaning of compromise or my derision of them will continue because they mean none of us well.

I save the swastica for rightwingers and those of the fascist persuasion, do not take this personally, but I have a problem with political right, and that is more than clear in my articles.

I make it clear in this article and others that the right positively will not get everything it wants and MUST compromise or else!

Mine is not a hate streaked universe but one that strives for justice and equality in how things are done. Throwing the word love out there doesn't mean anything if you are not willing to sacrifice for the one loved. I love America and do not want her in the hands of plutocratic thugs.


BukowskiBabe profile image

BukowskiBabe 5 years ago from Somewhere in the middle of it all.

People are clearly fed up, Credence. No one wants to see this nation fall. We all better have a come together moment soon, or we are on the road to ruin. While we sit her and debate/argue, very powerful men have their own agenda. Those with power transcend a left/right paradigm. As long as we fight each other, nothing gets done. I am more of a Libertarian, but I do lean right on fiscal matters. I firmly believe that they will settle this debt issue before time runs out. I might be wrong. It happens.

Those in the Tea Party are you fellow Americans. The Tea party is a group comprised of individuals. When we generalize and lose the individual,what have we become?

People are willing to sacrifice, but we've heard it all before. Those in Washington promise not to spend us into oblivion, and after the crisis has passed, the beat goes on. People are worried about their children's future and their own futures. They no longer trust DC. Can you blame them?


PETER LUMETTA profile image

PETER LUMETTA 5 years ago from KENAI, ALAKSA

Credence a heartfelt article and comments opposed to your use of the Nazi analogy. Strong words and emmotions. I know that we the people have been slighted and cast aside by the whole lot of them including the potus. I saw today in the Huffington Post the response of the drones when asked why? they responded "we all took the pledge", the pledge that "to not raise taxes" given to Grover Norquist, so he would support them. Not to the Party or the country but to a nonelected money funnel of the Koch Bros. Many of your assertions are correct and we need to correct them, Maybe you used an offensive example but I gaurantee you it will get a lot of attention. What is happening isn't pretty and will hurt the country and the people are paying for it. Maybe they have crossed the line and are being offensive now and will pay for their intransigence and disloyalty to the country at the ballot box on both sides of the aisle. What is happening is pure vengence against the potus and strictly partisan politics. The wrong people are going to pay for it. They need to take the responsibility and the heat for all the pain they are causing.

Peter


Credence2 profile image

Credence2 5 years ago from Florida (Space Coast) Author

BukowskiBabe, yes we need to come together and soon. The fighting stops when someone takes the first step to lower their sword. Who was shown the most desire to compromise and come to an agreement? If the group of individuals you refer to as the Tea Party on encouraging GOP reps not to negotiate and compromise in the face of this crisis, then I certainly cannot see them as just individuals with their own opinions. The conservatives in the past had their agenda but never in modern times did they use it to hold the nation hostage.

Since the spending came from bothe sides, both sides need skin in the game toward a solution. I am with the President, I will not tolerate a gutting of the national social compact without so much of a ruffle of sacrifice from the fat cat corporations or the Thurston Howells' of America. We all have to move together for an acceptable solution for all parties and that means we all must be prepared to give something to that end. Hardly unreasonable, is it not? That is all I am asking for... I worry about the future too, but what makes you think that the political right is about anymore than sheer rhetoric in dealing with the issue?

Regardless of our differences, I appreciate your weighing in and our having civil discourse. I will have to read more of your articles so see from where your political stance derive.


BukowskiBabe profile image

BukowskiBabe 5 years ago from Somewhere in the middle of it all.

I don't agree with the Obama agenda, but I'm not about to see the nation crash and burn simply because I don't agree. I don't hate Obama. He's an intelligent, articulate man with a lovely family. That however, does not mean I support his platform. What I'm attempting to convey is that perhaps people don't want to pay taxes that will merely result in more waste. This really isn't about Obama. DC has been doing this for years. People are fed up. To chalk this up to sheer hatred or, "vengence" seems to be an oversimplification of a complex issue, and if there is resentment, it certainly is bidirectional.

If we don't get some fiscal responsibility, people are going to suffer. We've been living beyond our means for years now. What if we raise taxes and the economy tanks even further? What next? We're already on the precipice of disaster.


Credence2 profile image

Credence2 5 years ago from Florida (Space Coast) Author

Hi, Peter, yes, the N azi analogy is strong, but strong is what we need to get the attention of so many that continue to believe that this is just "tit for tat". I am seeing ugly that within my lifetime has had no peer. What was once healthy partisan disagreement is now based on total subjugation and capitulation of the other side and we all know who is taking that tack these days, it is not Obama and the Dems. I nervous about the cuts he proposes from the left side of the ideological divide, but I will trust his instincts and accept that we need to get to the problem spending and that may sacred cow may well be gored. But, I will not do that without concessions be made by the other side, otherwise NO DEAL.

I always appreciate your dropping in and look forward to more discourse between us into the future. Cred2


BukowskiBabe profile image

BukowskiBabe 5 years ago from Somewhere in the middle of it all.

I don't trust either side at the moment, Credence. I lean right on some issues, but parties have sold us out. As for big money, they will never pay, and it doesn't really matter who is in office.


BukowskiBabe profile image

BukowskiBabe 5 years ago from Somewhere in the middle of it all.

By the way, thank you for allowing my comments, and the spirited if not heated debate.


Credence2 profile image

Credence2 5 years ago from Florida (Space Coast) Author

I hear you BukowskiBabe, I don't agree with the Boehner and GOP agenda, but does that mean we have to burn the house down?

Obama offered 3 trillion in cuts with 1 trillion in revenues. I cannot see why tax increases and closing loopholes for those where there is no national advantage for maintaining them helps in anyway. The revenue enhancements makes the cuts to social security, medicare etc, less precipitous. Since after all both parties are responsible, why is only one group expected to pay the penalty? We can have fiscal responsibility without turning the Government upside down, it can be done. The correlation between taxes and prosperity in the economy is dubious at best at the highest income level. That money is going to oursource more jobs and buy Picasso masterpieces and gamble at the Wall Street casino. I think that is just what the right tells people, but if the last 8 years is any guide, this is not true...


Credence2 profile image

Credence2 5 years ago from Florida (Space Coast) Author

BukowskiBabe, you are most welcome. It is a pleasure confering with you. Nothing wrong with being conservative, but we don't need to decapitate the patient if all he needs is a haircut........

Yes, the system is hopelessly corrupt but it comes down to the lesser of two evils...

Best regards, Aloha, Credence2


victor.hatley profile image

victor.hatley 5 years ago from Oklahoma City, Ok. 73118

Great Art, I'll vote it up. As others have said, the analogy didn't offend me, but it is a VERY heartfelt subject to some. Funny thing I saw yesterday, though I cant remember where and find it today, Norquist made a statement that to let what was supposed to be a temporary tax cut, expire isn't an increase in taxes...really wish I could find it again, maybe in a few I'll locate it. That statement was made, (I think,) after his staff started to note the agreement he made so many sign...pretty good PR, huh? Now the idiots won't take the ball of permission from their king...umm, maybe that's a bit harsh but, anyways...and run with it. It'll serve them right if they get the blame for all this crap in the history books.


TMMason profile image

TMMason 5 years ago from FL.

The Tea party canidates are doing exactly what they were elected to do.

NO COMPROMISE!

You all think your Leant Leftist Socialist Liberal Democrat Progressive ideology holds sway with the majority... then we will see you in Nov of 2012, and we will all know who stands where after the election.

All you Marxist Socialist Liberal Democrat Progressives, are out!

What is amazing is that you all complian about the Tea Party and no more spending or raising our debt ceiling, when the FACT is it was all your spending and BS programs that created this mess to begin with. Obama refuses to address the obama-Care draining us. But it is everyone elses fault that a deal cannnot be reached.

What a bunch of whiners and cry-babies the Left and Progressives are.


HSchneider 5 years ago from Parsippany, New Jersey

Though your rhetoric may be a little strong, the Republicans are holding this country hostage with this fake debt ceiling crisis. Let there be no doubt, if this country defaults, we will sink into a depression. The Democrats are compromising like crazy and the GOP will not budge on eliminating corporate tax breaks. This strategy comes from Grover Norquist and the Koch Brothers. A corporate plutocracy is their aim and it is coming if we do not fight against it. It is the Bush tax cuts and the unnecessary Iraq War that created this mess. The Tea Party wing is a false, ignorant creation of the GOP and corporate America. Great article Credence2.


Credence2 profile image

Credence2 5 years ago from Florida (Space Coast) Author

Hi, Vic, thanks for your comment. I know that the Nazi analogy was sensitive for many. Progressives have attempted a meaningful understanding with those on the other side of the isle. I say the time for handling these people with kid gloves has come to an end, and ask the question Mr. Spock put to James Kirk in the film Star Trek, the Voyage Home, "perhaps it is time for a colorful metaphor?" There can be no negotiations with those that will settle for nothing less than your total capitulation... And that can never happen

Norquist has been doing a double take on the orders that he gives his minions. We will all stay tuned, and you stay safe in the Sooner State, regards, Cred2


Credence2 profile image

Credence2 5 years ago from Florida (Space Coast) Author

Well, TM, nice of you to comment. I did not write this article anticipating that all comments are going to be favorable. It is a provocative article because it needs t

to be

You said:

NO COMPROMISE!

Then I say to prepare for GOP political anihilation in the next electoral contest

You said:

You all think your Leant Leftist Socialist Liberal Democrat Progressive ideology holds sway with the majority... then we will see you in Nov of 2012, and we will all know who stands where after the election.

I say that Obama was elected, wasn't he? That is a lot of progressive ideology right there, As for your predicted outcome for 2012, we will see who will EAT CROW

You said:

when the FACT is it was all your spending and BS programs that created this mess to begin with. Obama refuses to address the obama-Care draining us. But it is everyone elses fault that a deal cannnot be reached.

I say that that is a matter opinion, your opinion, rightwingers do not have a lot of credibility with me, so I give you a right to an opinion and a vote. But, remember I have an opinion as well and a vote which I will employ against you when the time comes.

When it comes to crying, I guess we will see how soon we can get Boehner and the rest of the gang to stop crying after they get their report card from the American people.

BTW, the Joe McCarthy revisionist stuff that you put out is most bizarre, you might get some medical attention and have someone look at ya


Credence2 profile image

Credence2 5 years ago from Florida (Space Coast) Author

Nice to hear from you HS. I guess the showdown that we both hoped would not have been so protracted is upon us. I tried not to be loose with the Nazi analogy, but it does reflect much of how these legislators are behaving. America is about compromise, fascism is its antithesis. This sublime plot against the foundation of our society needs to be made known in a clarion call, shouted from the rooftops. Too often people are indifferent to the danger until it is right on top of them. As always, I appreciate your comments and hope by God that there is an 11th hour solution for the sake of us all.


BukowskiBabe profile image

BukowskiBabe 5 years ago from Somewhere in the middle of it all.

Credence2:

This is Mr. 'BukowskiBabe',

I am not as politically minded as my wife, as she explained in some of her hubs. I consider myself a Conservative-Republican on most issues, though I was a sternly Liberal-Democrat earlier in life.

I am all for political speech, ideas & debate, as I miss the ages of ancient Athens where everyone could voice their opinion. However, this article went beyond debate & view into the realm of illogical hurt. I am Jewish, proud of my blood & faith. I lost many of my family to the hands of the Nazi mind in action. I am pro-Tea Party and to say the Nazi flag are my colors is personally hurtful, hateful & illogical. To compare the Nazis' hold on Germany with the Tea Party movement shows a lack of understanding about Nazi Germany. They are incomparable, in the strongest sense of the word. Are the Tea Partiers calling for the death of all liberals? Are the screaming about Aryan power & superiority? The comparison is hurtful. Do I need to wear my Tallit & Talis to a rally to make the point void? I wish one of my family could show you their branding upon their arm and explain your error, but sorry, none of them made it out. Please tell your political viewpoint & opinion, but please remove the illogical comparison and that flag which has nothing to do with this debate.

Mr. 'BukowskiBabe'


Credence2 profile image

Credence2 5 years ago from Florida (Space Coast) Author

Mr. BukowskiBabe, I apologize for this misunderstanding. The behavior of the Tea Party legislators are akin to the techniques used by the Nazi of a single minded goal, being oblivious to the greater good of the nation, because they want to reshape a nation to its own. That's fascism and tyranny, pure and simple. None of us have agreed to this, at all. The right has had no scruples about pulling out all the stops in labelling the left. Based on this latest crisis which from my perspective show them to be the more uncooperative, the gloves are off in regards to them. My text is appropriate, but in deference to your sensitivities in this matter, I will remove the flag, but my opinion stands firm, regardless. My opinion of the right and the gist of this article remains the same. The comparison from my perspective is quite logical but compromise with you based on your unique experiences, too bad the rightwinger has yet to its meaning and do the same... Regards, Cred2


BukowskiBabe profile image

BukowskiBabe 5 years ago from Somewhere in the middle of it all.

Cred,

Thank you. Now, I will reread your article. Now that we have moved beyond this, I am going to try and understand your point of view. I owe you that much.


Credence2 profile image

Credence2 5 years ago from Florida (Space Coast) Author

You both appear to be wise and reflective people, my preferred audience. I was glad to make this adjustment under the circumstances. Cred2


BukowskiBabe profile image

BukowskiBabe 5 years ago from Somewhere in the middle of it all.

Cred, likewise. I'm not at home now and having trouble connecting to the web. I will read your article again when I get home. Well, I can try now, but not having much luck staying on. Thank you oh respectful one..I'm wondering if you took your name from CCR. If so, love em too.


Credence2 profile image

Credence2 5 years ago from Florida (Space Coast) Author

BukowskiBabe, funny you should mention it but "my handle" was the outcome of my being partial to Credence Clearwater Revival (THE BAND). Don't thank me, it is more important that we can exchange ideas, without needless intimidation. I would be no better than the people I rant about if I created artificial barriers to communication. Then, can anybody really say that I am truly open to dialogue and really want to listen?

When ever you are ready.... Cred2


BukowskiBabe profile image

BukowskiBabe 5 years ago from Somewhere in the middle of it all.

The Tea Party wants smaller government. That is not conducive with facisim. Do you think that perhaps from your perspective, they're misguided?

I looked up Grover. Granted, as online was down for me most of the night, I could not do extensive digging into his agenda. He wife is Muslim and he seems to have Libertarian leanings. Libertarians are not known for their love of taxation. He opposed the political controversy over the Manhattan mosque. That again, is more of a Libertarian mindset. I will try to find out if the GOP members of congress are lining to kiss his ring on the tax issue.

I think we're in agreement that big money controls everything, but we disagree on the nature of said big money. It is my belief that those who pull the strings transcend a left/right paradigm. Therefore, both parties are complicit and have sold us out.

For example, Obama received large donations from wall street...Goldman Sachs etc...why? We both know that big money doesn't do anything not in their best interests. This is not to disparge Obama. This has been going on for years. He's just the most recent example.


mib56789 5 years ago

"That conclusion is that these Tea Party legislators are here to DESTROY democratic and representative government in America that is based on the will of the majority in favor of the whims of a small sliver of the population." The Dickens you say! There's no way you could know that unless you bugged their bedrooms. @.@ Seriously though, The Tea Party-ans are still Americans and as long as they don't break the laws let them say what they mean to say and say what they think they need to say! If it's for the good of all the people, then it is. If it ain't, it ain't! =?


BukowskiBabe profile image

BukowskiBabe 5 years ago from Somewhere in the middle of it all.

I could just hug you, mib


BukowskiBabe profile image

BukowskiBabe 5 years ago from Somewhere in the middle of it all.

I think it's good that they're involved in the political process and they care. They love this nation, and they are not a monolith.


Credence2 profile image

Credence2 5 years ago from Florida (Space Coast) Author

Greetings BukowskiBab and MIB

No BukowskiBabe, the desire for smaller government is not in itself fascist, but the approach the Tea Party legislators have used to attain to this end most certainly is, in my opinion

The Left and right have always debated about the role of government in American life. What is unprecedented, irresponsible and akin to treason is linking the debt limit ceiling to compromise on the issue. The same debt limit that has not been questioned by either party in the past as it has been raised well over a hundred times in the last 30 years. Most everyone with expertise in this area, not counting Rush Limbaugh and Glenn Back make it clear that to not raise the ceiling would have catastrophic results for the country and the economy. 1. A lower credit rating would mean that all the debt we are paying creditors would increase because like the man in the street with a lower credit rating, creditors are going to demand higher interest rates to compensate for the increased risk of the loan. That adds billions of dollars to interest payment stall and derail business borrowing and opportunity in an already frail economy. 2. To even flirt with the idea that as right-wingers say “we will rob Peter to pay Paul, if we do not have the money to pay all our obligations, is irresponsible at best. Do we not pay social security, part of the interest on the debt or shut down FAA? Those are choices we should not have to make. So Tea Party legislators are more than happy to plunge a dagger into the heart of the financial system and through that, you and I.

Those on the left and right have a different view as to what “smaller government” means. We always have and always will. The President has made a good faith effort to reduce spending, which is what most the American people want. But we are not going the keep loopholes for the Corporations and the uberaffluent while we throw grandma under the bus. You and I both agreed that both parties play a part in the budget problem, why does one side have to pay it all and the wealthy are to be untouched? Who is saying that closing outrageous tax loopholes for the rich and powerful is a no no in the face of this crisis? Is it the Tea Party?

Tea Party rank and file may be good Americans but the legislators in congress acting on their behalf, are behaving like fascists. Is this what you folks signed up for, scorched earth politics?

If the Tea Party or anyone else wants to make change, than they need to be prepared to do the heavy lifting. They need to persuade people in the country as to the merit of their cause, that would be reflected in votes for a majority GOP Congress and Executive, then they can make their changes to society on their ideological model, but that would be too much work when a small minority of Congress(the Tea Party is not a majority of the American electorate) can put a gun to all of our heads to get their way, that, BukowskiBabe and MIB, is fascism pure and simple.

I am sorry but the Tea Party organization has blood all over it if it is a party to these kinds of tactics in Congress.


Justsilvie 5 years ago

Your Hub is an excellent read! The eyes of the world are on the US and Tea Party does not show a picture that makes the world have faith in our leadership abilities. Their no compromise stand shows that their will is more important than the will or the good of the entire nation.

Compromise is part of life and anyone you is not willing to find a center in a diverse land does not have anyone's other than their own agenda in mind.


Credence2 profile image

Credence2 5 years ago from Florida (Space Coast) Author

Hi, Justsilvie, thanks for your gracious comment. The comment that I made just before your spells out even more as to what is going on and what is at stake. Can either side resolve to resolve their differences without one side threatening to burn down the house in which we all live? Those that refuse to reasonably compromise is putting the entire nation at risk!!


FitnezzJim profile image

FitnezzJim 5 years ago from Fredericksburg, Virginia

Outstanding debate and good article.

I had not considered that the Tea Party holdouts might be related to a personal oath to anyone. I keep the Tea Party Mission Statement bookmarked since who they are and what they are about comes up so frequently in current political type discussions. When I review that link http://www.teapartypatriots.org/Mission.aspx, the current actions of tea party members seem consistent with their stated mission. That said, no man can honestly follow more than one oath, so I ask, do you have a shareable source for the statement that Tea Party members have sworn a personal oath to follow Grover Norquist?

The trouble I have with debates on any one issue, good or not, is that we all seem to overlook the underlying Constitutional crisis that is occurring. Our government system has morphed from the bicameral representative system (the House represents the People, the Senate represents the States) that was created by our forefathers into what now appears to be a system where individual representatives allegiance is owed either to party or lobbyist, rather than to the people or to the States as intended. In short, we are in Constitutional crisis, and any action that shifts our attention from whatever current issue is at hand to discussion of the root causes associated with the divides over issues gets us that much closer to dealing with the root cause problems.

I too am disgusted at the references to the Nazi's. The reference conjures up an emotional image that will cause many folks to simply react, rather than engage in a critical thinking process. Name-calling and emotional arguments disengage the critical thought process and replace it with reactionary emotionalism. Given your preference for critical thinking, I can't help but wonder what you were thinking when you made the reference. Nevertheless, it seems to have gotten attention, and concur, the discussion does need to occur, not only here on HubPages, but with a much wider audience.

Regarding our countries ratings I would note that none of the major news outlets are pointing out the latest from Reuters regarding Moody's outlook for the US credit rating. I think it well considered to point out that this article comes out 30 July 2011, before the debate on the debt-ceiling is resolved, since we're likely to hear claims of saving the day coming from both parties. Article can be found by using a good search engine on the terms 'reuters moodys ratings'. Between now and when the debate is over, feel free to sit back and watch our performers engage in mind-numbing debate. It will be yet another show to Remember in November 2012.


Credence2 profile image

Credence2 5 years ago from Florida (Space Coast) Author

Greetings, FitnezzJim, thanks for reading and providing comment. I need to mention as I was checking into the link that you provided, I found it broken. I do not speak of Tea Party members rank and file, but of the new members of Congress that came to hold their office as a result of this movement. I am mistaken, but many sources indicate the no-tax position of the GOP. Fellow progressive hubber, Jillian Barclay wrote the following article http://hubpages.com/politics/Grover-Norquist-Rules... While there may be a liberal bias, there are more nuggets of truth there than not.

You indicate the desire to repeal the 17th amendment to the Constitution, the direct election of senators. So, as long ago as 1913, what kind of pressure was brought to bear to give the people more of a direct interface with the political process? I think that we both agree as the obvious, that the Constitution had to amended to accommodate changes in society and the electorate from what was envisioned in 1787. I think that you are speaking of a major facet or principle that may go beyond this. What advantage do the appointment of senators by state legislatures have over the present system? Everybody knows that the Senate is the more august body between the two in the bicameral legislative arrangement, I want them accountable to me as part of “the people”. How does that unravel things in your eyes? This debt crisis seems to me as more than a mere diversion.

The use of Nazi, was an unfortunate analogy but accurate to the tactics used by these rightwing congressmen. The credit worthiness of the United States that affect us all is not subject to negotiation. To use this as a bludgeon against the opposition was unprecedented and unacceptable. As I mentioned in an early comment, if the right wants to change the fundamental ideology and principle behind the current government, let them go to the people make their case and get like minded people elected to congress and make the change. A minority holding the nation hostage seems to indicate that they know best and take it upon themselves to institute a rightwing vision of what the Government’s function entails. That presumption smacks of fascism, whether its intent is paternalistic or otherwise. This was beyond politics; the willingness to bring down the house reminded me of Nazi tactics, bullying to get your way. It was written to shock as it was meant to. I used a firebomb word, which perhaps I shouldn’t have, but when I looked at how the Nazis conducted in activities within the crumbling republic, adding fuel to more efficiently, certain similarities came to mind. Of course, the Tea Party are not Nazis. Explaining what these representatives did and how they did it was not emotional reaction, but a valid alarm for myself and to others as to acts of irresponsible behavior, heretofore never experienced in political arena.

I have not seen the latest info from Reuters, but I have heard that some sort of agreement has been reached as of today August 1st. You are right, of course, everybody will be knocking one another over to take the credit for a breakthrough. But as the President insisted upon, this debt ceiling can never again be used as a negotiation weapon, in lieu of the traditional debate and compromise between the parties that we have all come to respect as the civilized and responsible way of doing business. Again, Aloha and best regards Cred2


FitnezzJim profile image

FitnezzJim 5 years ago from Fredericksburg, Virginia

Wow, thanks for such an elaborate response.

Thanks for the link, I read it and still had the same question.

The link I provided somehow got a comma attached to it at the end. My bad.


Credence2 profile image

Credence2 5 years ago from Florida (Space Coast) Author

Ok, FitnezzJim, I will try again, thanks


feenix profile image

feenix 5 years ago

Hello, Credence2,

In this hub, you did a terrific job of arguing your case.

You said what you believe and it is quite obvious that you deeply believe in what you say.

In my opinion, that is a sign of a person who has a very high degree of integrity.


Credence2 profile image

Credence2 5 years ago from Florida (Space Coast) Author

Thanks, Feenix, the aricle was a bit abrasive, but I intended to get the message across in a dramatic way. Viewing the number of comments, obviously I was right. Your positive acknowlegdment as evidence by your comment is appreciated.


GA Anderson profile image

GA Anderson 5 years ago from USA

@credence2 - you sent me here from another comment link - glad you did - I see much to be "discussed?" because I think you have some "splainin" to do..but no time now....

----kilroy---was----here----

GA


Credence2 profile image

Credence2 5 years ago from Florida (Space Coast) Author

Hi, GA, always open to a little discourse with you, whenever you have a moment.


taxhitman 4 years ago

I'm glad to find someone that actually believes the same dangereous perils the tea party places upon our country.

    Sign in or sign up and post using a HubPages Network account.

    0 of 8192 characters used
    Post Comment

    No HTML is allowed in comments, but URLs will be hyperlinked. Comments are not for promoting your articles or other sites.


    Click to Rate This Article
    working