The Right-winger’s Rebuttal: So, The Empire Strikes Back?

This is written in response to and recognition of a ballsy and obvious well accomplished fellow hubber, with whom I strongly disagree. While I go to my blue corner and he to his red as its standard bearer, I draw my sword (pen) prepared to do battle. I have to admire his courage for facing me with his attempt to defend the indefensible. So much unlike other conservative types that run when confronted and ‘put on the spot’ regarding what lies behind their opinions and views. While I attack, it is not personal but it meant to counter arguments that are frequently heard from the generic Right-winger. The hub is made up of his reply (comment) to my recent hub “Right-winger: Who are you calling Anti-American”. I will clearly identify the excerpts, in un-bold text, a portion of the comment . My answer will be in bold text.


There is more anti-Americanism among Americans today than ever before and plenty of evidence exists of this right here on HubPages. Anti-Americanism is taught in our public schools, dominates our universities, and is the lens through which most of our media sees the world. Anti-Capitalists are anti-American. Anti-Christ is anti-American. Multiculturalism is anti-American. Socialism is anti-American

Sounds like more of that witch hunt stuff. What you call Anti-American is what I considered a diversity of views and opinions. Are you afraid of the natural interaction of ideas and the resulting differences of opinion? What makes you this great oracle that sees and knows all? Anti-Christ is a reference to those that do not subscribe to the Judeo-Christian faith. Well, perhaps you have heard of the First Amendment to the Constitution that does not prescribe litmus tests in regards to religious affiliation or lack there of to determine whether you are ‘American’ or not. Under that premise, it is ludicrous to say that a non-Christian is Anti-American. So, what is Socialism, was it the New Deal, Social Security, the advent of Medicare? Are you ready to call FranklinDelano Roosevelt and Lyndon Johnson Marxists, un-American? So Multiculturalism is Anti-American, is it? Multiculturalism is a fact, like the sun rising, are you opposed to that? So what is the “American Culture”? There has to be a sort of smugness and arrogance in your view that every American citizen has to toe your line. Let’s get down to brass tacks, what is your line? Is it all WASP, and subsets of that who belong to the Pro-America group? If so, that implies racism and xenophobia to me. Why don’t you clarify yourself here? But, you would never admit to that because then a lot more than just your slip would be showing. I have news for you and your co-conspirators, this multicultural trend is advancing by the day and I strongly suggest that you not get your panties in a bunch but take two aspirin and call your doctor in the morning. Your inferences are ‘dead on arrival’ and you can rest assured that I as well as other multiculturalists are not just going to disappear.



The church Obama attended for twenty years is certainly anti-American—that's why he says he doesn't remember the sermons.

And I suppose that kooky church that Sarah Palin was associated with gets a free pass, huh? I think what you are saying is that Black people are intrinsically Anti-American; you are going down a dangerous slope here. Consequently, I am going to take me pen and carve you up like a roast for it. With so much of the Republican right adhering to this nonsense, is it any wonder that you get only a token African-American vote? I guess the Hispanic Catholics have reason to be concerned, as well?

http://credence2.hubpages.com/hub/Why-do-Blacks-African-Americans-Vote-Democrat



The most intolerant people in America are those who preach tolerance.

That is debatable, please elaborate. History shows that the right-winger is the epitome of bigotry and intolerance.

You are mistaken that right-wingers use doublespeak—the Left invented doublespeak and are the undisputed masters of it. See Herbert Marcuse or Saul Alinsky.

The right has far outstripped the left when it comes to these terms referring to patriotism that when examined closely, never hold water. Your statement is just a matter of opinion.

Right-wingers are far more susceptible to charges of hypocrisy, of course, because if you are a moral relativist that claims no objective set of values then you cannot be a hypocrite. Only by having standards, which you fall short of, can you be a hypocrite.

You have your own set of values, but I have my set and who says that yours are any better than mine? Of course, you do, but that is not good enough. I would think that it would be great if you kept your values to yourself and let each of us define values and what that means for ourselves, if you don’t mind

Rightwingers are not feeble minded, leftwingers are. To be "broad-minded" is simply to be lazy intellectually. It means you cannot grasp right from wrong and even if you do you lack the guts to say so. That is feeble minded.

To be broad minded means to accept the fact that YOU are not the great arbiter of the universe. Only God can do that and YOU certainly are not HE. It is having the humility to accept that your way may very well not be the way of your neighbor. We know right and wrong, and we have to agree to that as defined by law not by your caprice. Do I not see tyranny peeking? This big blue marble is a global village, and you need to get use to fact that “your way or the highway” ain’t going to cut it.

Joseph McCarthey was not a good person but he was absolutely right that Communists had infiltrated our government and wanted to overthrow it and were spying for the Soviets even in our nuclear programs.

The Rosenberg’s were convicted of espionage and executed accordingly. That was a case of treason, and that is against the law. I and my fellow citizens have the right to think and freely associate as we choose. Are you advocating some sort of “thought police”? That stuff about overthrowing the government is just so much nonsense; you will need to do more than just parrot right-winger dogma. According to J. Edgar Hoover, Martin Luther King was a Communist sympathizer trying to overthrow the Government, get real. You people make me sick. It is no wonder you are all so anxious and resentful.


Most of the founders of labor unions were communist sympathizers. After all, "workers of the world unite" is a Marxist slogan.

Well, in my opinion the only difference between a slave and employee is an arbiter. You people seem to always forget that the exploitation of labor has been a cornerstone of American history and the history of other societies as well. You had better thank the existence of the middle class with fair expectations of those that employ them as stemming the tide against the Marxist revolution you folks talk about all of the time.

You demonize conservatives while tossing around the most insulting adjectives to describe them and yet wonder why we do not have a "harmonious union." 40 percent of American identify themselves as conservative—20 percent as liberals. Progressive agitators have created the disharmony in our land—not those with traditional American values, who are only playing defense.

I demonize right-wingers and as I state in my article, there is a difference.. The right-winger is a fanatic seeking to enslave us all under this moral priggishness and a racist and xenophobia perspective they disguise as patriotism. Your percentages are relative and are subject to debate, I don’t follow Fox news or read your typical right-wing rag. Progressive agitators, huh, it sounds a great deal like George Wallace or Bull Conner circa, 1962, do I need to elaborate? If doing things your way is going to bring on more harmony, then I say let’s have disharmony! And you can bet your bottom dollar that I am going to make my voice clear at the voting booth.


Someone who writes "Our country has an ugly history, scarred with ignorance and hatred" is anti-American. America has the greatest history of any nation in the history of the world—though all nations are flawed because all people are flawed.

The fact that I am American does not mean that I am not ‘intellectually honest’ and fail to recognize its shortcomings. Is that not a mature way to go about it? I would be lying if I said, that in regards to your first sentence, that it was not true. With you guys, it is always so simplistic: “America right or wrong” or you are a communist. Right and wrong does not necessarily have geographic or cultural boundaries. The right-winger’s 19th century mindset makes it hard for them to visualize a more evolved reasoning process.

Anti-Americanism is built on ingratitude, envy, and covetousness. How can anyone be so ungrateful to have been born an American? They envy people more successful than they are and covet the possessions other people have earned that they haven't.

We are American and we are grateful. But a good life or bad life is not always based on mere possession and material wealth, you ought to go back to your scriptures and see for yourself. I am not going to stick my head into the ground and ignore right and wrong as you are so fond of saying merely to fit in with your paradyme. That paragraph is again unsubstantiated and is just dogma. The question of ‘earned’ is too, a matter of opinion. When you look at American multinationals companies as an example, you have taken a lot as well.


It has been a pleasure responding to your comment and hope that this makes my position all the more clear, so how say you?

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29 comments

Druid Dude profile image

Druid Dude 5 years ago from West Coast

I'm not a right winger...not a left winger...but outta cash is outta cash. Not a lover of capitalism, nor of corrupt labor unions. Broke is broke...maybe the liberal side is a messiah, probably not. Thought provoking hub, though. Voting it up.


Judi Burton profile image

Judi Burton 5 years ago from Myrtle Beach

As an agnostic daughter of the revolution, whoever wrote that price of garbage can kiss my red white and blue ass.


HSchneider 5 years ago from Parsippany, New Jersey

Great response Hub to JW's comments on your last Hub. It seems to me that anyone who has different views than the people of the Far Right, they are called anti-American. This crowd feels they have a lock on Americanism and patriotism. It brings me back to the favorite Tea Party mantra, "We need to take our country back". When and how was it taken away. They lost elections in 2006 and 2008 and won in 2010. Democracy is alive and well and they successfully blocked or watered down a lot of legislation. We must return to the principles of the Founding Fathers. Does that mean we need to return to slavery and only white propertied men can vote? Give me a break. These people are just sore losers and now their corporate masters are attempting to purchase our entire government and democracy. That is anti-American.


Judi Burton profile image

Judi Burton 5 years ago from Myrtle Beach

Too right hschneider.


Tom Cornett profile image

Tom Cornett 5 years ago from Ohio

Years ago, I was out of work and despeartely looking for work. My wife, three children and I were down to our last meal and about to lose our heat for the winter. I called a local(very large) church. The pastor told me that the church on had six dollars. It was at least a 2000 member congregation.

I went to the government and recieved food and help with our financial situation until I finally landed a job.

I thought back then..."How pathetic that the government has to do God's work."

FDR did what he had to do. He did more of God's work than all of the churches combined at the time. His policies actually fed, clothed and comforted people.

The genius of our Founding Fathers is that they realized that the social clubs of religion was about 99% about persecution and 1% about God. They knew that if religion had control....multitudes of Americans would suffer....therefore, separating church and state.

I believe they seperated the church from the state to insure a ballance of power so that the people would not face, "moral" and social persecution. They all knew well...the power of the Church of England.

I respect anyone who knows the truth of the past...uses that truth to learn and is brave enough to make the world better.

From reading your Hub...I would definitely describe you as an American...standing for what we believe in...is what has always made this country great.


FitnezzJim profile image

FitnezzJim 5 years ago from Fredericksburg, Virginia

Regarding the Rosenburgs, and since you seem to be fact oriented, can I suggest a review of the Venona Project that was declassified in the mid 1990's? Particularly the parts about the people who still have not been identified. This together with the fairly recent access to the Communist archives of the old Soviet Union is likely to change our understanding of our history over the last fifty years or so. Flat out scary stuff, with (in my opinion) much still left to be exposed. It may not matter though, we tend to be ostrich-headed when it comes to old fashioned Communist manipulative influences.


Judi Burton profile image

Judi Burton 5 years ago from Myrtle Beach

Who was the guy that wrote those statements that you responded to so well?


Credence2 profile image

Credence2 5 years ago from Florida (Space Coast) Author

Druid David, your comment is noted and is most appreciated. I just ask people to weigh the alternatives as presented by each side. I am hard on the right because I find more problems with their ideological principles. Look forward to reading more of your philosophically based articles. Thanks again, Cred2


Credence2 profile image

Credence2 5 years ago from Florida (Space Coast) Author

HS, greetings and thanks for the kudos. This Founding Fathers' thing they can always be expected to call upon when it is convenient. Because they put it on the shelf when it is contrary to the point they want to make, it cannot be considered a principle, but an excuse.

Your definition of Anti=American is much more true to the mark... Regards Cred2


Credence2 profile image

Credence2 5 years ago from Florida (Space Coast) Author

Hello, Judi, thanks for weighing in. It is easy to get ticked off about the sheer arrogance of the folks, is it not? Well, we are on the same team and constantly need to keep this rightwing sort in check or they will run off with the store. You may be sharpening your pen with a plan to do a me one better, all well and good. I should not mention names under such circumstances but you can find his comment among the more recent of 14

under my hub

http://hubpages.com/politics/Right-winger-Who-are-...

Keep the faith, Cred2


Judi Burton profile image

Judi Burton 5 years ago from Myrtle Beach

Well as an agnostic daughter if the revolution I am offended at the fact that he thinks you have to be Christian to be American. My ancestor signed the declaration of Independance. Reading his quote enraged me. Another ancestor of mine fought next to George Washington and another is Native American. I would like to ask him how American he is, since he obviously has no idea what it means to be American.


Credence2 profile image

Credence2 5 years ago from Florida (Space Coast) Author

Yes, JUdi, there a lot of people out here that are more than comfortable to pass judgement if you don't see things their way. Who is the real patriot? Your forebears put their lives on the line, just so some rightwing type can say their contribution does not count, and heaven knows so many of them are chicken hawks never willing to put anything of value on the table, but they can sure run their mouths.


American Romance profile image

American Romance 5 years ago from America

I would like to respond to the sore loser comment by Schneider, How is it right to call us sore losers when we lost to Welfare recipients and college kids? Please explain this to me? When and how will it ever be right in this country to have forced leaders upon those who pay all the bills and contain some sort of sense, combined with logic over politics, community, and financial affairs? The good news for our side is that with 40% unemployment in the black community I doubt they will waste the fuel to drive to the voting booth and relect Obama...............lets see who the sore loser is next time! By the way, you lost in Wisconsin and the Pubs kept control, Seems Zoros and union thugs don't have the pull they once had??? You owe me a steak dinner!

And too Credence, not willing to put anything of value on the table? What in hockey sticks does that mean?? My entire family are military! I Paid taxes since I was 14 years old? I never went to jail nor commited crimes against my fellow man? What is it exactly you think your not getting from the right? Taxes? I already pay 90% of all taxes in this country! Do I need sacrifice more to make you happy?


Judi Burton profile image

Judi Burton 5 years ago from Myrtle Beach

Hahahaha American Romance. Let me bow down to you. I had no idea I was talking to Bill Gates. Wait...Bill Gates doesn't even pay 90% of taxes in this country. Well whoever you are, you must the richest person in the world!! I'm

Surprised your face isn't on the dollar bill.


Credence2 profile image

Credence2 5 years ago from Florida (Space Coast) Author

Hi, Tom, Scripture says it is by their fruit that you would know Christ’s true followers. I can’t tell the difference between those haughty ones standing in the pews and the dejected on the streets. Oddly enough, the latter has been known to be more generous. All you have to do is look at the story of the ‘Poor Widow’s small coin’ in the offering plate. We are to be persuaded not lorded over, if they let their good example move others the religions could get more adherents. The rightwinger wants us all to believe that charity is going to deal with all the poverty and want out there. Kids begging on the streets, I think not, we are all going have to pay in one way or the other. FDR could have well staved off a possible revolution, people did not appreciate how close to an upheaval of our government was possible during the darkest years of the Depression. With Social Security almost 80 years old, the rightwinger calls it ‘Socialist’. I, like you, recognize this aspect of the Founding Fathers not to have a national religion. You let the rightwingers have their way here and radical islam would look like a Sunday picnic.

Tom, I thank you for your comments and graciously accept your invitation to join your team and will need to get up to speed on your articles, but I will over time. Unfortunately, religious fanaticism has usually been a frequent source of tyranny and despotism. I like to think that we both will remain on the watch and not let ‘them’ divide us against one another. Thanks again, Cred2


Credence2 profile image

Credence2 5 years ago from Florida (Space Coast) Author

Hi, Jim, thanks for dropping by. To be fair I found the reference to the Venona project in wikipedia and will have a look. We must have the truth even though the heavens may fall. I am not sympathetic to treason, but it will take a great deal to actually consider rewriting history regarding this period, does this revelation rise to the level necessitating a witch hunt. Thanks again I will amend and rebut as new information makes that necessary.


Credence2 profile image

Credence2 5 years ago from Florida (Space Coast) Author

Hello, AR, a little giddy rather than romantic are we"

As for your statement:

The good news for our side is that with 40% unemployment in the black community I doubt they will waste the fuel to drive to the voting booth and relect Obama

DONT BET ON IT, we will get out the vote knowing that it is better to stay with a friend that dissapoints than to ally with an intractable enemy. We will get ACORN or its equivalent to help here.

AR, I was ex military too, so does that make me chopped liver, do I owe you a medal? I paid taxes since I was 16, so how about a real revelation? My record is without a blot as a law abiding citizen, join the club does that make you unique in someway? You pay 90% of all the taxes, well maybe you just might consider paying mine as well and make it 91%? All the same thanks for weighing in...Cred2


Texasbeta 5 years ago

Read between the lines; the clear Republican message, method, and intention:

AR- "The good news for our side is that with 40% unemployment in the black community I doubt they will waste the fuel to drive to the voting booth and re-elect Obama"

Like always, limit the number of people who vote, and Republicans are happy, and win. That is why all of the crazy voter requirements being implemented in states now. It is hilarious to me that the party who is always griping about them being unfairly treated are the ones who try to limit citizens from voting and do things like send out fake ballots in WI with the wrong dates to screw up the vote. They are the least democratic group we have.


Credence2 profile image

Credence2 5 years ago from Florida (Space Coast) Author

Yes, Texas beta, that is their modus operandi, voter supression. If you can't win fighting fair, then fight dirty.


Dee aka Nonna profile image

Dee aka Nonna 5 years ago

This is a great hub. I admire your ability to respond without loosing your cool. Vote up, useful and interesting.


Credence2 profile image

Credence2 5 years ago from Florida (Space Coast) Author

Hi, Dee, praise from the Master is truly gratifying. Thanks for looking in....


Steve 5 years ago

To Texasbeta and Credence2.

"Yes, Texas beta, that is their modus operandi, voter supression. If you can't win fighting fair, then fight dirty."

How do you make the leap from the disenchantment of the black community with the policies of our current administration to voter suppression? If they are citizens of the United States, they have the right to vote. No one is stopping them or interfering in any way with their right. If they choose not to vote, then it is also their right. That does not constitute suppression.

I am a centrist and call people out on both sides. One thing that I see as a major difference between liberals (I refuse to call them progressives) and conservatives, is that conservatives tend to argue using logic whereas liberals tend to frame their arguments with feelings and intentions.

Saying that the Republicans or conservatives are engaging in voter suppression is a play at working on the electorates emotions and in fact has no basis in reality. This is the type of argument I constantly hear from the left. They, conservative, are mean and evil. The program that we enacted did not work because the right would not fall in line.


Credence2 profile image

Credence2 5 years ago from Florida (Space Coast) Author

I am not making the leap, voter suppression see wikipedia link is certainly not science fiction and you will find is something done more often from the political right to intimidate, don’t act as if you are not aware of it. Most of US are. The black community has always been disenchanted enough since 1936 not to vote for the GOP. The Voting Rights Act of 1965 removed the more blatant attempts so now the political right works surreptitiously to do now what they once could do openly in the past

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voter_suppression

In spite of this you are correct , if they choose not to vote that is their right. Their choice to participate is to be without intimidation or coercion, subtle or otherwise, that is why I am here and why we are speaking about this now. That is great that you are a centrist, I am just left of center. Conservatives always says that they are the ones that employ reason, while liberals are emotionally rooted. Well, that is what they say. That and 2 bits can get you a cup of coffee. I do choose to call ourselves progressives making the clear distinction of the alternative that the ‘other side’ represents most of the time. So, I am not blaming the political right if blacks do not take advantage of their right to the franchise. I am saying that voter intimidation and coercion from them (the right) is not unknown and has happened frequently over the last few election cycles and it is not ‘tit for tat’ because the ‘left’ has not been involved in this anywhere near as frequently. How about explaining that? Thanks for your imput, Cred2


American View profile image

American View 5 years ago from Plano, Texas

And the armed black panthers wer not pushing whites away? Cred, we can find intimidation and voter fraud on both sides going back for years. Shame people cannot just respect each other enough to do the right thing.


Credence2 profile image

Credence2 5 years ago from Florida (Space Coast) Author

AV, thanks for dropping by. Yes, I heard about the case with the Panthers, but the stuff coming from the right is so much greater and more frequent. No one is innocent and we all have to be watchful, but incidents are clearly shown to be more on the rightside of the ledger. Thanks Cred2


FitnezzJim profile image

FitnezzJim 5 years ago from Fredericksburg, Virginia

Its a pendulum, the intimidation swings from one side to the other, along with the tolerance for it. Sort of like watching (and maybe iun sync with) the ebb and flow of the cycles of party power.


Credence2 profile image

Credence2 5 years ago from Florida (Space Coast) Author

Hi, FJ, thanks for coming by. I can't say that it is tit for tat. I have never seen the left attempt to intimidate voters in the same way and to the same extent. I can take that observation back many years, can you really show me an example outside of the Panther's where the left has intimidated voters on the other side.

Thanks Cred2


FitnezzJim profile image

FitnezzJim 5 years ago from Fredericksburg, Virginia

Maybe not voter intimidation, but, in my opinion, the Sixties was a lot about intimidation, and thats the Panthers roots. As you likely remember, the sixties were a time of violence, and the streets of Chicago were one of the less safe places to be. The Panthers were a part of that (along with the SDS and Weathermen), and I suspect that they only became less violent when intimidation by anonymous violence became no longer anonymous, and they found out they COULD be identified (similar to what makes a child stop making anonymous crank phone calls). Whether they are violent now or not, they have to live with the reputation they made for themselves.


Credence2 profile image

Credence2 5 years ago from Florida (Space Coast) Author

Welcome back, FJ I agree, the sixties were tumultuous. But we had quite a bit of intimidation from both sides. I see the Panthers from a different light, born in Oakland I remember issues with police and the nature of institutional racism generally as to how those in the black community were treated. There were just a few of us that were not going to wait for the 'hat in hand' approach of Dr. King and the moderates to address grievances. Thus, the Panthers were born, just the fact that a black man was armed was all the intimidation that anyone needed. The 'right' when speaking of the right to bear arms did not have that in mind, I don't believe. The Panthers became less violent when Hoover and the FBI made it a personal mission to eradicate this group, the Panthers. The leaders behind the Panthers were intentionally liquidated. Can't have black men running about with guns and organizing the community and coming together to recognize common problems and common foes, could we? The SDS and Weathermen were flashes in the pan in comparison, once their cheering section went away, so did they. We in the black community have a different take from that of the general society. All of these threats from the Klan to the Panthers are part of a remote past. Why is the right still trying to rig things with the unethical, of what are they afraid? As always, I anxiously await your reply if you are so inclined, Thanks Cred2

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