The Wheel Of Blame

He Needs To Buy A Vowel - "I"

Seems to me that...

It just seems to me that after a while people might wake up to reality and realize that Obama and his entourage in government have no idea how to fix a flat tire much less the economic problems we face. These are the same people who created this train wreck in the first place and that includes him. His answer is "more government" which equates to more wasted spending of our tax payer dollars. Three years into this fiasco called his presidency and he continues to blame Bush for the problems he, and his policies, have exacerbated. I find that be rather nauseating as does the average American. Mr. President, put on your big boy panties and realize that Bush isn't in charge anymore - YOU ARE.

The most recent CBS poll says that 54% of those polled don't think Obama has done his job well enough to warrant his being reelected. I am one of those 54% I can assure you. So lets flashback to the past and see what he said at the onset of his time in office.

Flashback To His Words

That's what he said and I reckon that is what he is going to get. While many people find the guy likeable and congenial, generally they don't care for his policies or the direction the country is headed. At what point will he say his policies have failed or the excessive spending he has led the circus in saddled this nation with and change course? He was asked that very question in that interview and he gave his usual version of the Obama tap dance. In just those three short years he has been at the helm and added $5 trillion to the national debt. I suppose he considers that to be "sound fiscal" policy. Let me now answer that for him - NEVER. He said he will be accountable. When? I'll answer that for him now also - NEVER. During the next election is the ideal time for the American electorate to exercise good common sense and answer that for him. Being the ideologue he is he will never veer off the "big government" band wagon as being the answer rather than the problem. He'll continue to blame Bush until the chickens come home, and they went to the slaughterhouse about the time of his inauguration.

Three Years Into This And We Hear This Version

So why do people still support him? Are they as out of touch with reality as he is? Are they still believing in his "hope and change" thingy? Or are their lives failing as fast as his economic policies are? Someone tell me how they can continue to support anyone who has done more damage to our economy, under the guise of trying to "fix" it, than Jimmie Carter did during his short lived presidency. In his own words here is the explanation:

"The reason they still support me is because they understand what an incredible mess had been made as I was coming into office and we've been spending the last three years cleaning it up. The good news is that the economy is starting to strengthen. We've seen some positive signs. The unemployment rate has ticked down."

Then flash back to the first video and listen closely to what he said keeping in mind that his lips are moving and continue to move without seeing any tangible results as "The Blame Game" continues. "Where's the beef?" as Clara Peller demanded.

Are people that enamored with empty rhetoric that they don't realize that he is nothing more than an empty suit and a politician and a bad politician at that? I guess if you repeat the same lie often enough some people will believe it or continue to believe it. Everything that hasn't happened that needed to happen during these three short years can't possibly be laid at his altar. The first two years he was in office his party having the majority in both houses of Congress as he rammed Obamacare, still wildly unpopular, and enacted a "favor for friends" program he calls a successful stimulus program. How in the world can $5 trillion be spent, added to the national debt and he tell us how successful his administration is being in fixing things?

Some people may buy that smoke and mirrors routine. I think he's counting on it. And yes, recession is when your neighbor loses his job and depression is when you lose yours. Count on this though as we enter full gallop into the next election cycle. Obama has no part, wants no part and will accept no responsibility for the mess he exacerbated. Things were bad before and they are far worse now. Explain that Obama and for goodness sake stop pointing that bony finger at anyone and everyone else and point it where it belongs. Where? At yourself Mr. President, exactly where it belongs.

You said it yourself. If after three years you haven't done what you promised to do then you deserve to be a one term President. So be it!

As Always,

The Frog Prince

Here's An UIpdated Score Card After 3 Years

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Comments 66 comments

pinktiffany1971 4 years ago

There's no "I" in me and with Obama...it's always, ME, ME, ME!


The Frog Prince profile image

The Frog Prince 4 years ago from Arlington, TX Author

Tiffany - I understand that fully and he needs to stop with the blame game and accept "ME" as being the problem, not the solution. Thanks for taking the time to read this Hub.

The Frog


alanlsg profile image

alanlsg 4 years ago from The World

Hi Frog Prince

Great blog and good links.

No politician ever says it is down to him no matter which part of the world they come from.

For sure there are going to be a lot of changes both in the USA, UK and Europe.

Oh by the way here comes China, Brazil, India and Russia to take over as the Economic powerhouses of the World.


WillStarr profile image

WillStarr 4 years ago from Phoenix, Arizona

Go to Google and search for "Obama blames"...you'll get over 250,000 hits!

And listen to this:

http://www.therightscoop.com/rush-reads-the-obama-...


The Frog Princess profile image

The Frog Princess 4 years ago from Florence area of the Great Pee Dee of South Carolina

His blame continues to be anyone BUT himself. He makes demands on others he blames. Never Never his fought. The people that will try to put his bamie butt back into office are the ones getting the free give aways that "us working"-(nothing against people that have lost jobs that they had for years)" people continue to support. The man just makes me sick. The blame will continue and he still has no clue as to what to do with our nation except BLAME...


politicalzealot profile image

politicalzealot 4 years ago from Atlanta, GA

I don't think you give President Obama enough credit. Sure things are bad right now, but things are bad everywhere. We are a global economy and as such, until the European mess is settled, it will be hard for us to come fully out of the slump we are in.

Keep in mind President Obama does have some very large accomplishments. Healthcare reform has been a goal of the Democratic party for decades and was finally accomplished under Obama's watch. The Dodd-Frank Wall Street reform bill is the first in many years to try to bring reform to Wall Street. Osama bin Laden, Muammar Gaddafi...gone. Many of these are downplayed or looked at in scorn, but nonetheless they are accomplishments.

I personally think that while Obama does have some accomplishments he can sound off on, things should be much better. He was elected as a visionary that would bring 'hope and change' to America. Unfortunately, he has not been able to lead a much divided America together and help solve the big problems facing us today.


Cassie Smith profile image

Cassie Smith 4 years ago from U.S.

Well, he has to blame someone, Obama certainly cannot admit failure, he's a democrat. It would require him to think differently and he doesn't want to do that. Same thing for his constituency. They voted Obama president because they like the idea of having a black man as president, regardless of his lack of experience in anything.


WillStarr profile image

WillStarr 4 years ago from Phoenix, Arizona

As politicalzealot notes, Obama and the Dems have brought us Obamacare, the same sort of socialism that has Europe about to go belly-up!

The left thinks that's a good thing!


Lynn S. Murphy 4 years ago

Right on the money or lack thereof FP.


politicalzealot profile image

politicalzealot 4 years ago from Atlanta, GA

@WillStarr I am not sure I would call Obamacare socialism, though I know many people on the right love to do just that.

I do not like some things in Obamacare, but I appreciate the fact that Obama and the Democrats did something to address the healthcare system in the United States. Republicans had control of Congress and the White House for almost a decade and did not address the problem. You may not agree with the solution they came up with and passed, but it at least pushes us towards a solution, rather than sticking with the status quo which was not working by any account.


WillStarr profile image

WillStarr 4 years ago from Phoenix, Arizona

"I am not sure I would call Obamacare socialism..."

Nevertheless, that's what it is, and most Americans want it repealed. Only you leftists and the usual gimmee-leeches want it. It's the same socialism that has Europe about to go belly up.


Old Poolman profile image

Old Poolman 4 years ago from Rural Arizona

Fact number one, Obamcare was not passed, it was shoved down our throats after a series of secret meetings. Very few are totally aware of everything that is included in this bill. It is full of new regulations that have nothing at all to do with healthcare. This bundling of good and bad legislation into one bill has to stop.

As far as solving problems goes, it will never happen until they quit the blame game. All their available time is spent pointing fingers and talking about history that can't be undone. Besides that, most elected officials don't really want the problems to be fixed or we may not need all of them any longer. Like the news media, if there is no current crisis, just invent one. Everything in politics today seems to have a deadline like we see on reality TV shows. The deadline comes, nothing was accomplished, so they just forget the whole thing because they ran out of time. This is nothing but a circus show and we all know that now. I'm disgusted with all of them.


BrightMeadow profile image

BrightMeadow 4 years ago from a room of one's own

@politicalzealot,

I'm not terribly political myself, but I hear you. While I may not agree with everything Obama has done-- like the whole bail out thing-- I do believe he is trying. His healthcare bill could have been better, but it was an effort to change a system that doesn't work as well as it could.

For those who are opposed to socialized healthcare, I must say that our government apparently isn't entirely opposed to it as U.S. military personnel receive socialized healthcare.

As for all those who are opposed to Obama, please show me any one human who could do any better. I don't say that in an argumentative way. I really am asking. I can't see how any one person can fix all the things that aren't working-- especially when having to fend off all the people trying to tear one down so that they can have the next crack at the seat.

It is our right to disagree with the leadership, but I am interested in solutions. If anyone has any suggestions, more than voting someone else into office, I would like to hear them.


WillStarr profile image

WillStarr 4 years ago from Phoenix, Arizona

"While I may not agree with everything Obama has done-- like the whole bail out thing-- I do believe he is trying."

A 10 year old kid can 'try', but that's not what we need or what was promised. Obama said he would make the oceans recede and the planet heal! :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u2pZSvq9bto

But he has delivered nothing. The president of the United States has to either deliver or be replaced. 'Trying' is not good enough.


breakfastpop profile image

breakfastpop 4 years ago

Obama's accomplishments are our nightmares. We simply can't afford 4 more years. I don't think we can recover. Up and awesome.


politicalzealot profile image

politicalzealot 4 years ago from Atlanta, GA

@Old Poolman Obamacare was passed using the same methodology that the Bush tax cuts were passed with, reconciliation. This is why the Bush tax cuts by law must 'sunset'. If you want to characterize Obamacare as being 'shoved down our throats', then to be honest in your criticism you must also say the same about the Bush tax cuts. Do you think the Bush tax cuts were 'shoved down our throats'?


WillStarr profile image

WillStarr 4 years ago from Phoenix, Arizona

"Obamacare was passed using the same methodology that the Bush tax cuts were passed with, reconciliation."

Utter nonsense. The support for the Bush tax cuts was bipartisan:

http://www.politisite.com/2010/12/17/more-democrat...

Not a single Republican voted for Obamacare. In fact, to get the needed votes, they had to bribe some Democrats!

Most Americans hate Obamacare, and the majority want it repealed. It was literally shoved down America's throat by Democrats.


Old Poolman profile image

Old Poolman 4 years ago from Rural Arizona

politicalzealot - I stand by what I said, and I agree with WillStarr. This bill was crafted in secret meeting, loaded with items not even related to healthcare, and shoved down our throats by votes purchased with bribes. Most likely not money bribes, but agreement to support some equally stupid bill for a YES vote on Obamacare. If Obamacare is such a great thing for America, why did Unions, Corporations, Restaurant owners, and friends of Pelosi ask for and be granted exemption? Can you honestly say you have full knowledge and agree with everything that was bundled in this bill? I don't, but know enough that I don't want it.


Kathleen Cochran profile image

Kathleen Cochran 4 years ago from Atlanta, Georgia

politicalzealot: I appreciate your side of the argument. In fact I appreciate any one who can make a political statement free of name-calling. It is a rare treat.

I've never understood the resistance to Obamacare. For 20 years all I heard was how great we had it in the military because of our healthcare. If it wasn't socialized medicine, I don't know what else you would call it. My question is: if it was good enough for military families, why isn't it good enough for everybody else?


politicalzealot profile image

politicalzealot 4 years ago from Atlanta, GA

I absolutely do not agree with everything in the bill. Nor can I claim I understand 10 year impact the bill will have, but I do support the fact that healthcare in America needed legislative change. I am not saying Obamacare was my preferred change, but the fact that it was passed means that something is happening, which in my view is better than nothing. There will be changes and tweaks made over the next few years to the bill, which will make healthcare in America stronger. That in itself makes it a positive achievement.

I also supported the Bush tax cuts when they were passed, though I did not understand the 10 year impact of them. Looking back now, it is hard to look at the numbers and see how the Bush tax were a good fiscal policy. I hope next year, when the dust settles after the 2012 elections, that the newly elected President, whether that be President Obama or the Republican candidate, will get serious about fundamental tax reform. That is something this country needs desperately!


WillStarr profile image

WillStarr 4 years ago from Phoenix, Arizona

We could avoid crippling the economy with new tax increases simply by cutting out waste and fraud. Government has no incentive to be frugal! That's why we have $16 muffins!

Why does the left never call for less spending? Why do they always call for higher taxes and bigger government?

Whatever happened to the American principle of small governments and freedom?


politicalzealot profile image

politicalzealot 4 years ago from Atlanta, GA

Yes we need to cut out waste and spending, but we also need to fundamentally change the tax code. There are too many loopholes built into the system! Changing the tax code will inevitably raise some people's taxes. It will inevitably lower others. What I and many Americans are tired of is Washington not working together to solve the big problems that are facing the nation today.

The key word there is 'together'. We are all in this together after all. The sooner we can get people in office that realize this, the sooner we will be able to get out of the mess we are in today.


WillStarr profile image

WillStarr 4 years ago from Phoenix, Arizona

"Yes we need to cut out waste and spending, but we also need to fundamentally change the tax code."

I support the FairTax. With that, the 50% of Americans who currently pay nothing (is that their fair share...nothing?), will finally be sharing the load, and since the wealthy spend the most, they will also pay the most.

What's not to love?


dahoglund profile image

dahoglund 4 years ago from Wisconsin Rapids

The founders of this country recognized that humans are corruptible.

that is why they put several checks and balances into our system.Those who back Obama think that government can be perfected and paradise will be here on earth.There are incompatible


The Frog Prince profile image

The Frog Prince 4 years ago from Arlington, TX Author

Good debate and dialogue going on. I was at work so I'll catch up a bit.

politicalzealot - "Unfortunately, he has not been able to lead a much divided America together and help solve the big problems facing us today." That's because he isn't a leader. What has ensued, and has recently gotten worse, is his instituting harsh rhetoric to further divide this nation in the form of waging class warfare. That is not a mark of leadership, that is scumbag politics Chicago style. Obamacare is laden with taxes and his promise that it will result in lower premiums has already proven to be total nonsense as premiums have risen. He spent 18 months of valuable time in a bad economy which resulted in the fiasco that now has his signature on it. Watch what the SCOTUS is about to rule and don't be surprised by the ruling.

Cassie - To elect anyone to the highest office of this land because of their skin color is insane.

BrightMeadow - Being a 23 year Army veteran I find what you said to be way off base. First of all, the military is a total subset from society in this country in general. What we received, or still receive, isn't socialized medicine in the least. It is part of the compensation for putting your skin in the game, or sometimes putting your life in danger to ensure the citizens of this nation can continue to live freely as we do. But it isn't socialized medicine or close to it. It is provided to ensure a healthy, physically fit force that can do its mission.

I reckon in 2012 we'll choose a better person to fulfill the duties of the office. He lacked experienced when he was elected and it has been glaring the past three years. He is a pure ideologue. Watch and listen to the videos closely and understand exactly what he said.

politicalzealot - If the Bush tax cuts were so damnable why did Obama agree to extend them as he has? Becuase you don't raise taxes in a recession and we're still in one.

dahougland - The founders understood the power and the danger of a big centralized government. That danger is still there and more apparent each passing day.

OP and Will - Astute observations and counterpoints as usual. No one denies health care reform is needed but the essential elements, especially tort reform, are absent from Obamacare. Why?

The Frog


Stu 4 years ago

Hi Frog,

Obama simply doesn't understand the root causes of our economic dillema. While we have a long term issue involving federal debt that must be addressed via federal spending reduction, tax base broadening, and abrogation of off balance sheet debt (phasing out federal social programs and bailout promises), we also have an immediate jobs crisis that requires non-fiscal actions.

The preceise nature of the proper non-fiscal actions is the big issue. Obama sees these actions in terms of printing money to buy up treasuries, and loaning money to banks to increase lending. There are major problems with these solutions. While they may possibly lead to some short term stimulus, they do nothing to address the structural problems that are causing the actual problem. Further, this "pump-priming" is inflationary, and may not even actually work at all (if lenders and borrowers are too scared to transact, the money just piles up in bank capital doing nothing for the economy).

In the short term, the only solution is to eliminate the "governmental artifacts" that lead to the free economic play which determines market rates for consumer prices, interest rates, and wages. This leads to optimal allocation of equity capital, debt, and labor, and maximizes GNP and employment.

The great difficulty is that removing these impediments to the "invisible hand" goes against the grain of everything Obama stands for ideologically. The non-fiscal structural reform we need to address the immediate problem includes:

(1) Greatly reducing costly and unnecessary business regulation.

(2) Eliminating the FIT and FICA, and replacing them with a VAT or national sales tax, so business investment is not disincentivised.

(3) Expelling all illegals, which would free up about 7 million jobs for Americans.

(4) Impose retaliatory tariffs on all nations that impose them on us or subsidize their businesses incorporated in their own nation. These low wage nations would then refuse to allow us to offshore our jobs, and they would return home.

(5) End monopoly unionization via a federal constitutional amendment, and also repeal all laws that require employers to negotiate with unions. We will never spur domestic investment until wages float freely based on supply and demand for labor, rather than being fixed at arbitrary levels determined by labor contracts.

I'm sure this list is not complete, but it exposes the general nature of my argument. We have far too many structural impediments to the free market prcing mechanisms to permit the US to be "business friendly" for domestic investment purposes. And without this investment, we won't be creating more jobs.

Job creation is now the imperative. The big layoffs have largely ended. The problem is that we have about 40 million Americans who can't find work, are underemployed, or have just given up. The true unemployment rate is close to 20%, not the 9% figure based solely on those receiving unemployment checks. Further, we are adding about 2 million people to the potential workforce each year as children become of age. Only 20% of college graduates are finding professional work in their chosen field; the rest are either unemployed, doing manual labor, or working professionally in a field that does not interest them. The jobs crisis will clearly grow worse as more people reach working age, and the economy continues to create a minimal number of new jobs. Until we embrace the kind of real structural fixes I listed, and give up on monetary pump-priming, this crisis will not be solved.

Stu

Stu


Ghost32 4 years ago

Hey, at least now the Oblameinator is admitting it'll take more than one term to "fix things"--and maybe more than TWO.

Hmmmm....


politicalzealot profile image

politicalzealot 4 years ago from Atlanta, GA

I love the FairTax! I think it would be the best solution out of the proposals I have seen out there. Unfortunately, Republicans went mad when Herman Cain suggested his 9-9-9 plan (I also loved). 9-9-9 was designed to 'phase-in' the FairTax, ie introduce a smaller national sales tax first, then pass the constitutional amendment necessary to pass the FairTax. Republicans were against the idea of introducing a 'new revenue stream', which 9-9-9 did.

Now the FairTax would replace everything so that argument would be moot, but I suspect it will be a large hill to climb. But the fact is that ANY fundamental tax reform will be a large hill to climb. Now days, every specific industry with a lobbyist on the payroll has something favorable inserted into the tax code. Fundamentally transforming the code would mean getting rid of these loopholes and K street will become as active as Time Square.

In my view the ONLY way to get the economy back on track is to fundamentally change our tax code and make it more favorable for business and everyday Americans. The best thing that Herman Cain did for Republicans was introduce his 9-9-9 plan because once he did every other candidate was forced to address the issue of fundamental tax reform. I just hope that they make that change a mainstay of their campaign against President Obama.


Kathleen Cochran profile image

Kathleen Cochran 4 years ago from Atlanta, Georgia

"First of all, the military is a total subset from society in this country in general. What we received, or still receive, isn't socialized medicine in the least. It is part of the compensation for putting your skin in the game, or sometimes putting your life in danger to ensure the citizens of this nation can continue to live freely as we do. But it isn't socialized medicine or close to it. It is provided to ensure a healthy, physically fit force that can do its mission."

You are exactly right in your definition of why we receive this care. My comment about it being socialized medicine was a definition of how we receive the care - how it is delivered to us.


politicalzealot profile image

politicalzealot 4 years ago from Atlanta, GA

@WillStarr your claim that it is 'utter nonsense' that the Bush tax cuts were not passed via reconciliation is simply incorrect. Both the 2001 and 2003 Bush tax cut bills were passed via reconciliation. In fact, the 2003 cut was tied 50-50 in the Senate which required Dick Cheney to cast the tie breaker.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements...

You are correct that there was bipartisan support for the Bush tax cuts and not for Obamacare, but to state that it is 'utter nonsense' that they were not passed via reconciliation is incorrect. The fact is both parties have used this method many times in the past, and they will continue to do so in the future.


The Frog Prince profile image

The Frog Prince 4 years ago from Arlington, TX Author

politicalzealot - You might want to click on the link that Will provided and take a read. He doesn't shoot from the lip too often that I am aware of. Many of us provide a link for verification for the reader to analyze. I don't put too much weight on The Truth-O-Meter myself because of the leanings of the publication that runs that meter.

The Frog


politicalzealot profile image

politicalzealot 4 years ago from Atlanta, GA

The link Will provided talked about the extension of the cuts in 2010. I am talking about the initial passing of the bill. Forget truth-o-meter. Look up the passing of the Bush tax cuts. Reconciliation was used for both the 2001 and 2003 version. It is a fact that cannot be disputed. The point is that both parties use the reconciliation process to pass bills that the other party isn't fond of.


JON EWALL profile image

JON EWALL 4 years ago from usa

hubbers

Realize that what Obama says is not what Obama and the Democrats actually do.

Obama and Senator Reid and Senate Democrats seemed to forget to abide by PAY-GO legislation that they approved in 2010. Pay-go, NO new taxes, any new expenditures have to offset by cutting cost to offset the new spending. In other words cost neutral! ONE MUST TRY TO understand the law.REALLY

2/13/10 2:04 PM EST NOTE ! TODAY IS Dec. 13,2011

President Barack Obama is hailing pay-as-you-go BUDGET legislation he signed Friday night as one in a series of crucial steps needed to snap Washington out of a destructive pattern of overspending. “Now, Congress will have to pay for what it spends, just like everybody

else,” Obama said in his radio and Internet address released Saturday morning. “After a decade of profligacy, the American people are tired of

politicians who talk the talk but don’t walk the walk when it comes to fiscal responsibility. It’s easy to get up in front of the cameras and RANT against exploding deficits. What’s hard is actually getting deficits under

control. But that’s what we must do.”

The PAYGO compels NEW spending or tax changes to not add to the federal deficit. Not to be confused with pay-as-you-go financing, which is when a government saves up money to fund a specific project. Under the PAYGO rules a new proposal must either be "budget neutral"

or offset with savings derived from existing funds.[1] The goal of this is to require those in control of the budget to engage in the diligence of prioritizing expenses and exercising fiscal restraint. The interest on the national debt is $1 billion a day and rising. The unfunded liabilities of the country is $104 trillion.

12/13/11, The Republican majority House passed the extension of the payroll tax holiday today. Senator Reid said even before he put the bill on the floor for a debate and a vote, the Senate will not pass the bill. Shouldn't all of Senators be given an opportunity to vote, up or down? Since Jan 2011, there has been only 1/3 of the government working for the good of the people. The other 2/3's ( in control since 2007-present ) still hasn't figured out how to pass jobs bills sent to the Senate from the Republican House. Obama blames the Republicans, he needs to go to the Senate and shake things up.


politicalzealot profile image

politicalzealot 4 years ago from Atlanta, GA

Good point on pay-go. You leave out the fact that Democrats are not the only party that doesn't abide by the rules.

"Shouldn't all of Senators be given an opportunity to vote, up or down?"

I think they should no doubt, but do not be disillusioned into thinking that Republicans do not also play the same game when they are in charge. It is a two-way street.


JON EWALL profile image

JON EWALL 4 years ago from usa

politicalzealot

''play the same game when they are in charge. It is a two-way street.''

Yes that is true to an extent. There are 2 ideologies in Congress that have to come to the middle of the road. That's called '' bipartisan and compromise '' by both parties. That is why leadership denying anyone of our elected officials an opportunity a vote is wrong.

Recently legislation has been passed by voice vote instead of a registered vote. This act does not tell us how our officials voted , aye or nay, therefore their vote can’t be reviewed.

An example, Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_Reform_an...

The bill was passed by voice vote sad to say. We all know how effective it was and is today, result 11million illegals. Illegals, UNAUTHORIZED ALLIENS, in the country cost the American Government ( taxpayers ) some $300 billion a year.

Today party politics has been more important than what is equally good for the people and the county.

The failure of President Obama to bring a solution, as promised if elected, is definitely the biggest failure today as to why the recession has not ended.

The 25 JOBS BILLS passed by the House sitting in the Senate waiting for them to be voted on is a disgrace when jobs are priority today.


politicalzealot profile image

politicalzealot 4 years ago from Atlanta, GA

I agree with you about the voice vs registered vote. Everything should be done on the record and the Senate should vote on all bills the House sends them.

I am curious where the $300 billion a year number on illegals comes from. I don't doubt it, but I would like to see the source.

"The failure of President Obama to bring a solution, as promised if elected, is definitely the biggest failure today as to why the recession has not ended."

What failure are you citing?


The Frog Prince profile image

The Frog Prince 4 years ago from Arlington, TX Author

politicalzealot - I'll jump in here now. If you Google "cost of illegal immigration" you'll find a wealth of material. Factoring in the cost of what it costs the federal government (U.S. taxpayers) and what it costs the individual states and local governments it may approach or surpass the figure Jon used.

Jon can probably add some excellent sources and probably will. I won't venture to speak for him about the failure issue but I would imagfine it has to do with his changing the environment in Washington DC. He has - it has become even more toxic because he is an ideologue.

The Frog


politicalzealot profile image

politicalzealot 4 years ago from Atlanta, GA

Frog,

Every report I have seen on the subject looks at it from a specific point of view and does not consider the whole picture. I have seen cost numbers a little over $100 billion/year, but never $300 billion/year.

Two reports, "Impact of the Undocumented Workforce" by The Perryman Group in 2008 and "The Fiscal Burden of Illegal Immigration on United States Taxpayers" by the Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR), show two completely different points of view because of the specifics they looked at while not looking at the whole picture.

The Perryman report focused specifically on the GDP contribution of undocumented workers and what their elimination would mean to the economy as a whole. Their conclusion was that eliminating all undocumented workers in the United States would cost the US $1.757 trillion in annual lost spending, $651.511 billion in annual lost output, and 8.1 million lost jobs.

FAIR's report focuses specifically on the federal, state, and local government costs to fund items such as education, medical care, and law enforcement as it pertains to illegal immigrants. Their conclusion was that illegal immigration costs the US taxpayer about $113 billion/year at the federal, state, and local level. $84 billion of which is at the state and local level. Education contributes the highest single cost, amounting to $52 billion/year.

If we could somehow combine the two reports and get a whole picture, we might actually be able to determine real impact. As of now, the pictures painted are black and white.


The Frog Prince profile image

The Frog Prince 4 years ago from Arlington, TX Author

pz - It's definitely hard to fix an exact number to what it costs. However, one skinny penny is too much.

The Frog


Old Poolman profile image

Old Poolman 4 years ago from Rural Arizona

Not that I think illegals should be granted amnesty, but there are things we need to consider.

Let's say we did round up all of these people and ship them back to wherever they call home, and we did it in a day. The next day we would see the beginning of crops rotting in the fields, fruit rotting on the trees, and empty produce bins at the markets. To assume anyone here in this country would climb off the unemployment train to go pick fruit or harvest lettuce is insane. I don't hire illegals for my company, but I personally know farmers and fruit growers who do because that is the ONLY WAY they can get their crops to market.

Now if anyone thinks the Government including Homeland Security is not aware of this they are dreaming. For the Government to change this they would need to come up with a workable Guest Worker Program, and this apparently is beyond their capability.

And Frog is correct, allowing this to happen is costing this country far more in free medical care than can even be imagined. On top of that is the Anchor Baby issue that should have been changed years ago.

This whole thing is just a huge issue the Government has chosen to ignore hoping it will just go away, and that will not happen.

As you can probably tell, this is a very sore subject for me.


politicalzealot profile image

politicalzealot 4 years ago from Atlanta, GA

I agree one penny is too much. I question whether or not the net costs exceed the net benefits though. To my knowledge a study on that hasn't been done. Yes we are spending a ton on medical costs and education, but does their contribution to the economy makeup for that cost?

If you really wanted to stop the whole thing from happening you would increase penalties for businesses that hire illegals. It would be very simple to do this and should include jail time for repeat offenders. After a few businesses shut down and their owners are jailed, the example would be set and business all across the nation would stop hiring illegals.

The problem is business funds politicians campaigns and business wants access to the cheap labor illegals provide. What politician is going to vote on something that their campaign contributors do not want?


Old Poolman profile image

Old Poolman 4 years ago from Rural Arizona

PZ - Talk to the farmers and fruit growers, and you will find that cheap labor is not really their reason for hiring illegals. It is labor to get the necessary work done. Even if they were willing to pay a high wage, they would not find enough employees to harvest their crops without using illegals.

In Arizona, use of the Federal E-Verify system is mandatory. It works in favor of the employer because we get an instant go/no-go after submitting the information. That lets the employer off the hook if the employee is using false documents.

We would like to think that the Government is watching for undocumented workers in this country. But consider this fact. Hundreds of illegals purchase false documents and are using the exact same SS Number. Every payday, SS withholding is sent to the SS Admin office, and they receive a hundred payments for the exact same SS #. Now one would think their computer system would be smart enough to ring a bell or turn on a light knowing this guy could not be working 100 jobs at the same time. But that doesn't happen. Logic would tell you they are well aware of how this is happening, but are so glad to receive the money they say nothing.


The Frog Prince profile image

The Frog Prince 4 years ago from Arlington, TX Author

OP - I once had a conversation with an attorney, a bleeding heart liberal, about the issue and he gave me the $8 a head of lettuce spiel.

I had to fire back because I asked him if he knew the difference between a migrant worker and an illegal alien. Migrants come here legally, do their thing and then go home. Illegals come here and become blood suckers.

I'm just sayin...

The Frog


JON EWALL profile image

JON EWALL 4 years ago from usa

The Frog Prince

Part of the problems.

Costly Regulations Cost Us American Jobs, WHY?

http://www.gop.gov/indepth/jobs/regulations

US GOVERNMENT WASTE adding to the deficits!

http://coburn.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/2011/11/...


politicalzealot profile image

politicalzealot 4 years ago from Atlanta, GA

OP

Very true about workers willing to do the work. The cheap labor is somewhat of a bonus. I know from my experience in the restaurant industry that the 'amigos' were paid less than others, yet they worked their tails off.


JON EWALL profile image

JON EWALL 4 years ago from usa

The Frog Prince

'How in the world can $5 trillion be spent, added to the national debt and he tell us how successful his administration is being in fixing things? ''

Some how obama and the democrats forgot they passed pay-go law.

President Barack Obama is hailing PAYGO budget legislation 2/13/10

PAYGO compels new spending or tax changes to not add to the federal deficit.

http://chicagoconsultant.com/page2.php?category=2&...


The Frog Prince profile image

The Frog Prince 4 years ago from Arlington, TX Author

Jon - PAYGO was but a show. Their attitude is that they make the rules so they can break the rules.

The Frog


JON EWALL profile image

JON EWALL 4 years ago from usa

The Frog Prince

The mainstream media isn't reporting the true facts.


politicalzealot profile image

politicalzealot 4 years ago from Atlanta, GA

Question: Should tax cuts be subject to PAYGO?


JON EWALL profile image

JON EWALL 4 years ago from usa

political zealot

''Should tax cuts be subject to PAYGO?''

sounds like a loaded question?

Be more specific, please.

LAST YEAR the payroll tax holiday ( loss of revenue to SS trust fund) was passed (for 1 year ), the costs to replace the $100 billion was to be paid for by Tarp funds that were not used, hence deficit neutral.

The Pay-Go law dated 2/13/10 required any new spending to be offset by cutting existing budget cost so that the action was deficit neutral. Obama and Company ( SENATE ) either don’t understand the law or they ( Obama and the Democrats )believe the law wasn’t meant to be followed.

The Republican House recently approved a 1 year extension of the pay holiday and off set the costs by a variety of cuts to pay for the loss of revenue to the trust fund. In addition , the bill stipulated that the Keystone oil pipeline project would proceed. It’s all about JOBS, some 20,000 jobs.

The Senate’s tax holiday bill recently was passed for a 2 month extension of the payroll tax holiday. In addition ,the Keystone project approval would be also delayed 2 months, with the decision to approve the start was not clear. After 2 months of delay, the President would not be required to OK the start of the project. How does the President and the Senate get by with patchwork decisions that have been going on for 3 years?

There are over 20 jobs bills passed by the House sitting in the Senate waiting for Senator Harry Reid to advance the bills. Sorry to say, it’s all about politics and the 2012 election.

The president talks about jobs, in reality he is not fulfilling his promises.

Obama says ‘’I know your hurt ‘’ referring to the 14 million out of work. Those 14 million aren’t getting a tax break. They are getting ‘’the Obama living wage ‘’ unemployment checks. Obama’s family Hawaiian vacation ( one of many ) will cost the taxpayers about $4 million.


politicalzealot profile image

politicalzealot 4 years ago from Atlanta, GA

Jon

I ask that question because up until the payroll tax argument, the GOP has insisted that you do NOT need to pay for a tax cut. You can argue the semantics that the payroll tax cut was a holiday and that it comes out of the SS trust fund, which by the way is non-existent, but the fact is that the GOP has changed their stance on paying for tax cuts.

I also ask the question because in 2012, we will be having this argument again only on a scale 10 times as large when the Bush tax cuts are set to expire. They cost about 1 trillion a year. I suspect though that the GOP will insist those will not have to be paid for.

Consistency counts. I have been saying on thepoliticalzealot.com for a while that the GOP stance on the payroll tax cut is going to hurt them big time in 2012. Last night on Special Report, 3 of 3 panelists agreed that the GOP is going to take a big hit on their stance.


The Frog Prince profile image

The Frog Prince 4 years ago from Arlington, TX Author

pz - You pay for a tax cut with spending cuts. In your household, and I assume you help run one, when you have to cut your spending to meet your budget that's the way it works right? Or do you go to your employer and say, "Listen, I'm making more money than I spend so you need to fork over more."?

What needs to be cut is federal spending, the size of the federal bureaucratic monster, make federal pay come on line with private sector pay and stop all the perks these professional politicians suck up. Why do you think they want to become life time residents of Congress? The above is just a start in correcting things. Establishing term limits would help tremendously too.

The Frog


politicalzealot profile image

politicalzealot 4 years ago from Atlanta, GA

I agree Frog. The problem is that wasn't the philosophy of the GOP until President Obama got behind a tax cut. I find it highly unlikely that Congress will support and/or pass a reduction in spending of the magnitude required to pay for the Bush tax cuts, should they be extended, in 2012. It is not going to happen. Consistency is the problem.

I am all for term limits! I would propose 3 terms in the House and 2 terms in the Senate. Unfortunately there is no way the career politicians in Washington today will vote for that, especially since it would require a constitutional amendment with a supermajority passing the measure in both houses of congress.


The Frog Prince profile image

The Frog Prince 4 years ago from Arlington, TX Author

pz - You might want to read this which I just posted about the tax cut situation. I am an equal opportunity ranter.

thefrogprince.hubpages.com/hub/Legislative-Incompetence

The Frog


JON EWALL profile image

JON EWALL 4 years ago from usa

politicalzealot

The Bush tax cuts argument should be buried, let Obama handle his budgets and be responsible for the administration's own legislation. Bush has been gone 3 years and now should be history.

ALL of the tax breaks that Obama has engineered was a pick and choose for whom the tax cut or credits involved ONLY SPECIFIC mentions. Tax issues should be equal for all and benefit all. Obama can call it anything he wants to but the fact is that there are the jobs issue. The economy and jobs were an issue in 2008. Obama run on change and other great sounding proclamations. On 60 minutes he proclaimed that in his first 3 years he has accomplished more than 3 other great presidents.

Obama and the Senate passed a payroll extension for 2 months. The President praised the Senate, what a joke. The House passed the payroll extension for 1 year and made cuts to pay for it. Obama, now blames the House for holding up his jobs bill. One must get by the propaganda when he blames Congress. Congress is the Senate and the House. Since Jan.2011, the House has passed 25 jobs bills and has passed a 2012 budget. The Senate hasn’t pass a budget for 3 years, the 2012 budget has not been presented for debate.

Obama needs to call a spade a spade, the Senate is NOT DOING THE JOB. As a matter of fact, under control of the Democrats,2/3’s of our government hasn’t done the job since 2007.


politicalzealot profile image

politicalzealot 4 years ago from Atlanta, GA

Why should the 'Bush tax cuts argument' be buried? They expire at the end of next year and there will be a HUGE push to renew them. If they are let to expire, it will be called the 'biggest tax hike in history'.

I am not blaming Bush for anything. I voted for Bush twice and loved him as President. I wish he could have gotten his social security overhaul and immigration plans through, other than that he accomplished a lot of things.

Obama has also accomplished a lot of things. You may not like what he has done, but it doesn't change the fact that he has done them.


Kathleen Cochran profile image

Kathleen Cochran 4 years ago from Atlanta, Georgia

Wow Politicalzealot - two sides of an issue really can be seen if someone tries. It was refreshing to read your comment.

One additional comment: If we let the Bush tax cuts expire, the country will have its revenue stream back. I don't see that as a tax hike. I see it as giving the country back the funds it has needed to operate. Just how I see it. Merry Merry!


JON EWALL profile image

JON EWALL 4 years ago from usa

Kathleen Cochran

''I see it as giving the country back the funds it has needed to operate.'' Last year Congress and the President approved a 1 year payroll tax holiday. The trust fund ( going bankrupt )revenues were diverted back to working people. Everyone who did not have a job did not get any relief. In other words the government stole from the taxpayers to give working citizens $160 billion, supposedly to spend and help the economy, remember the money to fill the trust fund is borrowed. the plan failed as was predicted

Note that today the trust fund pays out more than it takes in hence the tax holiday increases the deficit.

The Bush tax cuts gave everyone tax relief and put money in every one’s pocket. The procedure worked, the treasury had the largest revenue in all times. In 2006 before the Democrats took a majority control of Congress in Jan. 2007,unemployment was 4.6%.

If Obama and the Congress DECIDES TO RAISE TAXES for every one, consider the tax increase as an Obama tax increase. After 3 years in charge , Obama needs to be held accountable. REALLY, the mainstream media hasn’t seen it or reported that way. One must try to get around the propaganda.

The Senate recently passed a payroll tax holiday for 2 months and extended the delay of a 20,000 job project ( keystone pipe line ).Obama and the Dems are fighting for a 2 month extension and leaving the keystone project (20000 jobs ) without approving the project. Obama wants jobs ( really, ready start jobs) so why isn’t he supporting the House passed a 1 year bill that had everything in the bill, tax holiday and keystone jobs, and was paid for as required by Pay-Go legislation/law signed by the President on 2/13/10.

Suggest you read the entire hub and replies, you will get a better understanding


JON EWALL profile image

JON EWALL 4 years ago from usa

politicalzealot

''Obama has also accomplished a lot of things''

Can you name any that have changed the unemployment issues and the economy. New EPA regulations on power plants will shut down 30 coal fired plants. In these troubled times, to do so will cost many thousands of jobs and raise your electric costs. The keystone pipe line project after over 2 years and millions of spent dollars to develop the project, a shovel ready project, has been delayed by the President and other agencies. The House Republican bill that was passed includes a 1 year extension of what was agreed to by the President. Today President Obama is fighting for a Senate passed bill for only 2 months. An idiot could see that the best move is by the House.

PS The mainstream media is reporting something a little different as are the internet blogs.


The Frog Prince profile image

The Frog Prince 4 years ago from Arlington, TX Author

Jon - Oh the Lame Stream Media has "seen it that way," they just haven't reported it that way. Any new regulations need to be ditched at this point and I mean "any." Excessive regulation is strangling the economy and the people.


politicalzealot profile image

politicalzealot 4 years ago from Atlanta, GA

There is no social security trust fund! It is a myth. Everything comes out of the general fund one way or another.

The Bush tax cuts did NOT cause the treasury to have the largest revenue in all times (unless you do not consider inflation). Looking at revenue as a share of GDP the Bush tax cuts lowered overall revenue the treasury took in substantially.

http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxfacts/displayafa...

Between 1990-1999 the average revenue percentage compared to GDP was 18.49%. Between 2000-2009 the average revenue percentage compared to GDP was 17.64%. The Bush tax cuts LOWERED revenue as they were designed to do (part of the starve the beast theory).


politicalzealot profile image

politicalzealot 4 years ago from Atlanta, GA

What has Obama done that has changed the unemployment issues and the economy. More than likely anything I list will be shot down. I am not an expert, but I listen to what expert economists say and can only repeat what they have said.

The payroll tax cut is estimated to raise GDP by 1.0%

http://www.cnbc.com/id/45723934/Payroll_Tax_Cut_Co...

The auto bailout may have saved 1 million jobs

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2010/10/...

Obama's stimulus package increased GDP and lowered unemployment

http://thehill.com/blogs/on-the-money/budget/19518...


JON EWALL profile image

JON EWALL 4 years ago from usa

politicalzealot

YOUR INFO IS ALL MUMBO JUMBO. Every month statistics coming out of the Obama administration are revised ( the numbers were wrong ) up or down to make the economy and jobs look BETTER.

1. PAYROLL TAX HOLIDAY, 2 month extension will cost the treasury ( taxpayers ) $ 33 billion. The next round for 10 months will be another $163 billion. Note that the government is borrowing $$$$$$$ to reimburse the trust fund with more borrowing. The national debt of $15.5 trillion is on the way to the $16.2 trillion recently passed by Congress. PAUL REVERE would be saying ‘’FOOLS WAKE-UP’’. NO JOBS, the middle class sinking to the poor class, the poor going into poverty.

2. The government should not invest taxpayer money into failing private ventures. The auto industry was not a part of the original tarp $700 billion plan .The options were to let them ( AUTO) go bankrupt and allow a new company to merge. The government could have not spent $ 0 dollars as they did in the Chrysler bail out years ago. The government granted Chrysler a loan guarantee, meaning if Chrysler could not repay the loan, the government would stand by to pay.

3.Obama's stimulus package increased GDP and lowered unemployment .More smoke and mirrors and a bunch of propaganda .The package $700 billion has grown to $1 trillion and the results are pitiful. Under Obama the national debt has increased $ 4.5 trillion, is that what the media and blogs call success?

4.The Bush tax cuts were in 2001 and 2003, his first term. Shorten the report from, 2000-2009 and check the treasury revenues. The Democrats took Majority control of both houses from 2007 to 2008, check those numbers out. Remember, Congress spends money, the President can only spend what Congress budgets in most cases.

Please do not take the reply as criticism, I do respect your opinions.


politicalzealot profile image

politicalzealot 4 years ago from Atlanta, GA

Jon

Again, I can only cite what has been done. You can find differing opinions on a lot of things. When it comes to economic policy it is very hard to say, if you did or didn't do X then Y would have happened.

I tend to agree with you on the auto bailout to a certain extent. The stance we took with Chrysler in the 70s would have been preferred. I think the reason they went the route they took is bc the economy was already in shambles. The thought was another shock might have sent it tumbling in the wrong direction.

I am not sure what you are asking about the Bush tax cuts. There is no doubt that they lowered federal revenues. That is what they were designed to do, starve the beast.

I just wanted to wish everyone a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year! I enjoy these discussions a lot! Enjoy the holidays!


The Frog Prince profile image

The Frog Prince 4 years ago from Arlington, TX Author

Merry Christmas to you too pz.

The Frog


JON EWALL profile image

JON EWALL 4 years ago from usa

politicalzealot

Merry Christmas to you and your family.

Maybe next year the spin will get so bad that one will not know who is telling the whole truth and nothing but the truth.THE PROPAGANDA MACHINES will be in full gear.

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