Things I Don't Understand About Abortion

October 4, 2009 marked Respect for Life Sunday for the Catholic Church. Although I am not Catholic, I am a Christian. And as a Christian I believe I am to respect all life. ALL life includes unborn babies.

So it was on this particular day, Respect for Life Sunday, that my husband and I were watching an old episode of ER. The episode was called May Day and was the last episode of Season 6. A college-aged pregnant woman decided that at the 32nd week of her pregnancy she did not want to have the baby. She tried to stab herself in the stomach to kill the baby but she was not successful. The ultra sound showed a healthy baby with a strong heartbeat. But there was something else - her placenta was beginning to abrupt. They told her if she did not have a c-section the baby would die.

She told the doctors she did not want to be cut open. They tried to explain to her that if she didn't have the surgery her baby would die. Again, she refused. There was nothing the doctors could do to save the baby. They simply stood by and watched as the baby's heart rate began to drop. They ended up having to deliver a dead baby.

Something I don't understand is this - it was OK for the woman to allow her baby to die as long as it was inside her womb. But if that same woman had the baby and then decided she didn't want it and she killed the baby that would be murder. She would then be looked upon by society as a horrible mother and everyone would be asking the question, "how could a mother do such a thing to her own baby?"

I don't get it. What's the difference if she decides to kill the baby inside or outside of her womb? Unfortunately, in this country, it is called choice, not murder. And really, what else should we expect in this "it's all about me" culture.

'My Body, My Choice'

Like the above scenario, there are many things I do not understand about abortion. I don't understand the mentality that pro-choice people have. They say, it's a woman's body and she can do whatever she wants with it. But when we see a woman harming herself whether by anorexia, cutting, attempted suicide or other forms of self-inflicted abuse, we do not understand why she is doing that to herself. Those around her try to get her help and those in the healthcare system do what they can to help her. Is it not her choice to do these things to herself? Why don't we just let her? Her choice to do this to herself becomes irrelevant. Sometimes the woman can't be helped in which case she might end up dying. And then all of those people who tried to help her, mourn her loss and think about what a senseless loss it was.

Why don't we as family, as healthcare workers, as society, feel that way when a woman is pregnant and she chooses to abort her baby? Why does choice become so relevant, especially when the choice to abort her baby is not a healthy one.

Another thing I don't understand is that many clinics do not tell her about the possible implications this abortion could have on her life. When someone goes in for surgery the patient is always told about the risks of the procedure. Sometimes these risks include experiencing depression. If an abortion is a type of surgery then why are they not informed of the risks beforehand? (Thankfully, there have been laws passed in some states where the woman must be informed and an ultrasound is required).

When Does Life Begin

Then we have the ongoing debate about when life begins. No matter how much scientific research supports the fact that life begins at conception, there will always be pro-choice lawmakers and healthcare workers telling us that in the early stages, the baby is really just a glob of cells or pregnancy tissue. The only reason they try to keep this lie alive is to diffuse the scientific evidence that at:

  • Four days: The sex of the zygote can be determined by using a microscope
  • One week: The zygote begins to contain all major body structures
  • Three weeks: Fetal circulation begins
  • Five weeks: All basic body systems including the brain and nervous system are developing which enables the fetus to feel pain
  • Eight weeks: The zygote becomes a fetus
  • Twelve weeks: The fetus begins to grow tooth buds, nail beds, and genitals
  • Thirteen-Sixteen weeks: The arms and legs are completely formed and the skeletal system shows up on x-ray
  • Twenty weeks: The baby has eyebrows, sucks its thumb and holds its own umbilical cord
  • Twenty three weeks: some micro-preemies have been known to live outside the mother's womb with the survival rate of micro-preemies increasing every year

 

the cry of an unborn baby about to be aborted
the cry of an unborn baby about to be aborted

It's Our Fault

 Something pro-choicers and left-wing liberals try to blame the pro-lifers for is that we cause violence. When Dr. Tiller, the late-term abortion doctor from Kansas who was gunned down and killed in church, the pro-life community was blamed.

There are extremists in every group. This includes pro-life extremists who for reasons I cannot understand think it's OK to kill someone who is killing others. We are not supposed to repay evil with evil. This act was unacceptable to the majority of the pro-life community. But I don't think that by protesting in front of abortion clinics we are causing people to go out and kill the abortionist. Pro-life people have a right to stand up for what they believe is moral and what is truth. There are extremists, but we do not condone them.

My Confession

I must confess that I have not always been pro-life. Due to the heart condition I was born with, my cardiologists warned me about becoming pregnant. I felt that abortion had to be legal in order to protect women like me who if they got pregnant it would become life-threatening. It was in my later years of high school that I formed this opinion. Even though I grew up in the church and claimed to be a Christian I still held the mentality that if I ever did get pregnant I could just have an abortion. I know this was a totally irresponsible way of thinking and unfortunately that mentality persists throughout our culture today.

So what made me change my mind that abortion was wrong? Simple. Jesus got a hold of my heart and I became a firm believer in the Word of God. The Word that says we are made in the image of God, that He knit each of us together in our mother's womb and that HE is the giver of LIFE.

50 Million Babies

 It grieves my heart that there have been nearly 50 million babies aborted since Roe v Wade. It grieves me that there are those who find the act of abortion totally acceptable. Unfortunately, I am not optimistic about Roe v Wade being overturned, especially in light our current President's beliefs and the increase in disrespect for life. However, just as my heart was changed, I believe God can change the hearts of others. He is no respecter of persons. Also, I do believe that laws such as a woman having to see her baby via ultrasound and parental consent laws are a very good thing.

Please know that if you are reading this and have had an abortion, I do not judge or condemn you. I simply feel sad for you for what you have gone through. I pray you will find healing.

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Comments 141 comments

ericabrobertson19 profile image

ericabrobertson19 6 years ago

You make some very good points in this hub. Im pro-choice but this doesnt necessarily mean I would ever have one-unless there was a very good reason. What about cases of rape and incest? I just think it should be an option for certain circumstances-not as a form of birth control or b/c you just decide you all of a sudden dont want a baby. I think adoption is an amazing alternative but it comes with its risks (emotional more than physical) as well. You mention there are risks related to having an abortion but you dont say what they are? I think women will still have abortions if it is legal or not and then what about that risk? Having an illegal abortion most likely performed by someone who is under-qualified?

I have only really had experience with extreme pro-lifers-once in college, where extremely graphic pictures of aborted fetuses were shoved in my face-and in the news stories that are reported about people killing Dr's who preform abortions. I find all that ridiculous. I do not understand that at all. your hub is a better way to get people to think about abortion. But Im still pro choice :)


Cari Jean profile image

Cari Jean 6 years ago from Bismarck, ND Author

ericarobertson19 - thank you so much for taking the time to read this hub and to post a comment. I really appreciate it. My goal in writing this hub is not to change the minds of pro choice people but instead to just put some things out there that I really don't understand.

You may find this alarming but even in cases of rape and incest I believe that baby has a right to be born. It is a life afterall and its not its fault a terrible things was done to the mother. I believe the baby still has a right to live. There have been cases where the mother still went ahead and had the baby and did not regret it.

As far as risks, well, just as risks with any type of surgery there is the risk of blood clots, bleeding out, death, feelings of depression, etc. I have had four open heart surgeries and have always been informed of such risks, and I think any woman having an abortion should be informed as well.

Yes, unfortunately, there would probably be illegal abortions performed and honestly I don't really have an answer to that.

I really disagree with extreme pro-lifer's tactics and I think they give the rest of the pro-life community a bad wrap. Thanks for the comment that you think my hub is a better way to get people to think about abortion. We may not agree but I'm glad you're still my fan and I'm glad to be yours!


DeBorrah K. Ogans profile image

DeBorrah K. Ogans 6 years ago

Cari Jean,

Thank you for sharing this! I am “PRO LIFE.” I believe that God is the Giver and Sustainer of life and no one has the right to take life! Life is a precious gift from God! I realize that this is not an easy decision for many. But have the child and give it to a loving couple who wants a child.

You have made some excellent points here. I think it will provoke thought on both sides…

Thank You for sharing.

Blessings!


Storytellersrus profile image

Storytellersrus 6 years ago from Stepping past clutter

Hi Carrie Jean from Bismarck, a town I know well.

I wonder why the focus is always on abortion. Doesn't ProLife also take stands against other forms of killing and senseless death? If you are Pro Life, this also means you must be against capital punishment, war and any other form of human inflicted death, right? But I don't hear about people picketing any of these organizations. How does this make sense? Just curious.


Cari Jean profile image

Cari Jean 6 years ago from Bismarck, ND Author

DeBorrah - thank you so much for reading and for your comments. I 100% agree that God is the Giver and Sustainer of life and no one has the right to take life.


Cari Jean profile image

Cari Jean 6 years ago from Bismarck, ND Author

Hi Storytellersrus - thanks for reading. Yes, Pro Life means also taking a stand against other forms of killing, such as euthanasia and the elderly and removing feeding tubes and letting those lie in a coma starve to death.

I personally am against capital punishment. War? That's a tough one. I've thought about that a lot.

ProLifers do cause a stir everytime a state tries to pass an assisted suicide law and many did picket during the Terry Schaivo tragedy. For whatever reason the abortion issue just seems to draw attention - in politics and in the news.

But yes - we do fight for life in these aspects as well.


Ken R. Abell profile image

Ken R. Abell 6 years ago from ON THE ROAD

Cari Jean - That is powerful. THANK YOU for writing it. I am very happy to join your fan club. Keep speaking truth & as Paul told his friends at Philippi, keep pressing on.


Cari Jean profile image

Cari Jean 6 years ago from Bismarck, ND Author

Ken - thank you for your comment and your encouragement! Thank you also for becoming a fan.


Specialk3749 profile image

Specialk3749 6 years ago from Michigan

Cari Jean, thanks for a good hub! I am pro-life too and believe that every baby, even if it is concieved by rape,etc., should have the chance to live. It is murder no matter HOW the child came to be. Like you, I don't like the way extreme pro-lifers handle things. I believe it take God to change a person's mind.


Cari Jean profile image

Cari Jean 6 years ago from Bismarck, ND Author

Specialk3749 - thank you so much for reading. I have read a couple of your hubs and think you are wonderful I'm glad to have become your newest fan!


in it 2 win it profile image

in it 2 win it 6 years ago from USA

hi Cari jean, nice article you have, in the Philippines, there are almost 400,000 abortions in a year. There are morning after pill which can be use (within 36 hours after sex) after unprotected sex and you dont want to have a baby, unfornately it is not available in some countries.Getting pregnant can be avoided if you use contraception in the first place. Government should help in the choice of people mostly women. There are babies conceived out of rape and incest. Abortion is never an option, only if the mothers life is in extreme danger.


NotAMoralSimpleton 6 years ago

Here is something I don't understand. Why are so many pro-lifers also anti-contraception? If you want to reduce the number of abortions, you could start by getting the Pope and other conservative Christians to remove all objections to contraception and accept the fact that humans like sex - God made us that way, apparently. And work hard to make sure everyone uses their contraceptives properly.

The Bible has exactly nothing to say on the subject of abortion, so I don't understand why religious people get so hot under the collar about other people's business. It is very easy to moralise when someone has to bear the consequences.

Personally, I regard the social and moral consequences of not having legalised abortion as worse than the social and moral consequences of having it. It is undesirable and should be avoided if possible, but pragmatically necessary. Pro-lifers strike me as moral simpletons who see everything only in terms of the alleged (but incorrect) status of the foetus, and are blind to the wider implications of their zeal:

- Abortions will happen regardless - they always have - but there will be more back-alley abortions, causing even more suffering and death. I simply do not understand how this is preferable.

- There will be a higher percentage of late abortions (which are I think a legitimate target of your concerns) because women, especially young women, will have no easily accessible support when they find themselves pregnant. Surely it is better to ensure all abortions are performed as early as possible, when the foetus cannot seriously be regarded as a full human.

- There will be a higher number of suicides by pregnant young women who feel trapped by their condition and the social pressures and lack of support around them.

- There will be more children placed into the loveless care of the state. Some will of course be adopted, but not all. I speak as one who is currently in the process of adopting children. Should I prefer a nice "normal" baby given up for adoption over an abused and neglected child taken into care? Most people do, but these days the neglected kids are in the majority (in my country), and get a fair chance to find loving homes. When so many children who were wanted are treated appallingly, is it sensible to force women to bear unwanted children?

- In what way is it moral to force a woman a carry a child to term when it was the product of a rape. The flood of hormonally induced emotions would be a painful roller-coaster for one already suffering. I regard this as similar to stoning women who have been raped because this is regarded as adultery, i.e. stupid in every way.

- Women who find themselves unwantedly pregnant have to make a very difficult choice, because a child completely alters your life. Maybe she is still at school. Maybe she is too old. Maybe she already has seven kids. Maybe her partner has deserted her. Maybe she has been raped. I don't think choosing abortion is easy for them, but they go through with it because they do not see any realistic alternative. They reportedly bear the emotional scars for life. I don't see a lot of understanding or forgiveness for their plight.

- What if the child would be severely mentally or physically handicapped? Our ancestors, who lived in a much more God-fearing age, left them to the wolves. An abortion seems rather less painful for all concerned. I would abort a child with Down Syndrone every time, even though I have a relative with the condition. You may choose differently, and I respect that, but you do not have right to choose for me.

And these are only a few obvious issues.

I think the real problem is the difficulty in pinpointing at what point in its development an embryo becomes fully human. For me the only sensible measure is whether the child could survive and develop normally post partum. Modern medicine is good, but premature babies have higher incidence of disabilities and impairments. This becomes worse the earlier they are born. Your own evidence would place my earliest limit on abortion at twenty three weeks, but the risk of those kids having abnormal development is high. Earlier than that, the foetus looks like a child (naturally, as it is growing into one), but is not a child.

It rather seems to me that our gestation takes 38 weeks because that is how long it takes for the process to make a viable human. This simple fact of nature (evolved or created - take your pick) should not be ignored, but usually is. It is simply impossible to take an eight week foetus and grow it ex-utero into a fully functioning human, but please feel free to try.


Freudycat 6 years ago

Hi Cari Jean,

I consider myself pro-"life", yet I'm also pro-realist. I know that many friends of mine have had abortions, and a few of them have had several. None, as far as I know of have had late term abortions.

But here is my issue: Back in 1976, at age 16 I became pregnant. My freaked out parents decided on a private adoption for my baby, as I was 16, scared and 7 months along by the time I told them (that is a longer story why I waited so long...)

The adoption was unbelievably emotionally painful for me and for my boyfriend. We got married at age 18, and immediately I conceived our son. He was born, and then I had a copper 7 IUD. I had this and other IUD's for about 10 years. After that, my husband decided to have a vasectomy, and it was a good decision for us at that point.

So, as you can see, I've run the reproductive gamut: 16 and pregnant, got married and had another baby at 19, IUD at 19 , husband has vasectomy at 35.

I have very strong feelings about most life events, and abortion is no exception. Because I say I'm pro-life, I have to consider myself something of a charlatan because of my IUD's--and I also have had pets euthanized, and, under certain circumstances, I am not fazed 1% by implementing the death penalty.

I'm pro-life, but with clauses and exceptions. I think the term is individualized by our unique human understanding of what we are going through. Life is really, really tough. It's hard to be a woman, because we are directly seated with the decisions that concern another life. When you are young, or broke or sick, it's unbelievably tough to choose to carry a pregnancy, socially and emotionally. Yes, I did it at 16 but it was a harsh time for me.

We all have to make decisions in life; no one knows ahead of time how that will impact your life in the long run. We cannot judge others for trying to do the right thing, however that looks.

One more thing: I believe in God. I am not sure how God feels about a tragic decision like abortion, but I know that God forgives for anything. I'm pretty sure most women don't have abortions on whim, but if they do that is a totally different picture to me, socially and psychologically.


Penina profile image

Penina 6 years ago

I ask myself when someone is willing to jump out of a window and wants to commit suicide why do the police try to help them? When a child is born and the parents are unfit and they drown the child or starve the child to death, wouldn't it have been better if that child was never born rather than being alive to die so drastically? It is a woman's choice because in life we have choices. Just like the anorexics made a decision to harm themselves the woman who is carrying the child makes a decision to keep or not to keep the baby. If it is done right and at the right time without harm to the mother than so be it. Women should exercise their rights without being judged as reckless. Just like in the ER episode if that mother decided to have an abortion early in her pregnancy than she would have been better off. That child did not deserve a mother who would harm herself rather than carry it to term than give it to a deserving family. THe right to chose is a woman's right to control her body.


NotAMoralSimpleton 6 years ago

@ Freudycat,

I thought your post was excellent. Very thoughtful, and based on real life. One thing confuses me: why does having an IUD make you a charlatan? Is your husband pro-life? Does his vasectomy make him a charlatan? And what does it say about your ethics if it is OK to avoid to pregnancy so long as your husband, rather than you, takes the necessary steps? It just all seems a bit confused to me.

Not wanting to kill babies is one thing, and I understand the ethical dilemma, but side-stepping the whole issue with a preventative is completely different. Having an IUD, taking the pill, wearing a condom or having a vasectomy all amount to the same thing: you want control over whether you or your partner become pregnant. This is a very rational thing to want and, in my view, a very moral stance because you will ensure that you have only as many children as you can give happy lives, and at a time when you are ready and can best afford to do this. Not so very long ago, women had pregnancy after pregnancy during their fertile years, and infant mortality, poverty and abuse were astonishingly high. Young women were ostracised, exiled or murdered for becoming pregnant when exploring there sexuality. This is what hard-core pro-lifers want us to return to.

The majority of potential pregnancies (including zygotes) end up in the toilet anyway through completely natural processes, so why is it wrong to help a few more go that way. The only explanation I can see is that our society is completely screwed up about sex. Get over it. It is a form of social control which you should wholly reject. Freeing sex from reproduction is one of the greatest achievements modern times. People can now choose responsibly and carefully whether and when to have children. This is a Good Thing. Of course, you could achieve that through celibacy, but this is entirely unrealistic, has never worked, and denies our nature. Why shouldn't a couple be able to enjoy their sex life? We are designed (evolved or otherwise) to enjoy sex, and are unusual among animals because almost none of our unprotected sexual activity results in pregnancy. Sex in humans has a function more than just reproduction, it fosters a close bond between couples and helps ensures they remain together, which benefits their children. Try Jared Diamond's 'Why Sex Is Fun'.


Diana Brooks 6 years ago

I had a child when I was a little girl in louisiana for a grown man who was a functional retard. Religious beliefs distort reality and people screw up their lives. The divine intelligence gave us "common sense and motherwit". If we choose not to use logic then we have no one else to blame. I advocate common sense. If you are not a part of the solution,you are apart of the problem. I advocate for those who aren't informed of their options in a healthy society. I am a bastard. My mother was a bastard, but my womb or the wombs of my immediate kin, I pray shall bear no bastards, for all children should be planned and prepared for in the correct order of life. Not as a trap for men, but in agreement with both parties upon conception.


James A Watkins profile image

James A Watkins 6 years ago from Chicago

Thank you for standing up against the heartless, the cruel, the evil who find ridiculous excuses for the slaughter of the most innocent among us. Shame on them. God Bless You! What you wrote is the Truth.


Kebennett1 profile image

Kebennett1 6 years ago from San Bernardino County, California

Society has become so cold hearted. Life is being valued by its convenience, genetic normality, and circumstance. It is not always convenient that I am taking care of my parents now that they are older and sickly, but I certainly am not going to kill them. My grand daughter has Down Syndrome but is a wonderful productive part of this world, my son has Tourette's Syndrome and I could not imagine my life without him, he is now 26 years old and a terrific, capable person in society. I was raped and became pregnant at 15 1/2, if I had not had a miscarriage I would have had my baby. It most certainly was not my babies fault that she was created by rape. She did not deserve to die. I am Pro-life. There are many people who wait years to adopt a baby and each year thousands are killed. This does not make sense. Pro-choicers will always find some excuse to use to kill a baby. That is exactly what it comes down to. Pro-Lifers have the one true reason behind their belief--It is murder to kill a baby, whether it is inside the womb or outside the womb! Something that is growing is alive, if you stop it from growing, you have killed it! Basic Science!


DreamLiving 6 years ago

This is my first writing on Hub, but this is a worthwhile topic for discussion. I believe life begins at conception and that abortion is wrong. But, I believe that there is a greater need to protect the right of choice for women. Ultimately, it will have the greatest impact on whether women can choose for themselves in all areas. The government has proven time and again that if we give it an inch, it will take a mile. And, each woman has to answer for her choice. Currently, we are controlled for seat-belts, smoking, and disciplining our children in areas that the government should not be involved in. And recently, our president led in an area in violation of the Constitution. (I am not against our president, but I am speaking to the watering down of respect for our Constitution and the rights it has afforded). International laws are continuously eroding our Constitution. When women lose control of their bodies, we will be like any other nation. When we give the government the right to control women's bodies, then they will take on the children, and then the men. This is an area we cannot give over to the government to decide for us. Money should be used to find a way to remove the babies and put them in some type of incubator as an alternative. There are many people who want to adopt and could then adopt the babies rescued that way. Restricting women's rights and control of their bodies is not the answer to the abortion argument. Preventing unwanted pregnancies and rescuing unwanted fetuses is the answer. Movies such as "Demolition Man" demonstrates just how much our Constitution is changing. Many laws have been changed like stated in the movie. Then, there's the "Handmaid's Tale," another movie with eerie events occurring now. Twenty (20) years ago, we wouldn't have believed that our government would do some of the things it's doing. It's time to take a stand to stop further erosion of our Constitutional rights. Return to helping women in other areas and don't change the protection of the right to choose. The founding fathers thought long and hard about what went into the Constitution. Experience taught them that the government doesn't know when to say "when" (that's enough).


dejajolie profile image

dejajolie 6 years ago from New Jersey/New York

Labels, labels, lables who's "pro-life", "pro-choice" in the end they are all just labels, and the last I checked labels were for clothes. I also find it interesting that people proclaim faith, religion, spirituality and quote scripture but still speak of hate and seclusion. Isn't God and Love all about inclusion and therefore all of the talk of I'm for this and you're for that just create more bias and hate and in the end only God can judge. I also know for a fact the majority of those who say they are pro-life don't know what they will do in the case of rape or incest. I don't take a stand on what others do to THEIR bodies, because it is theirs and I am only concerned with mine. I say let those who are of no sin cast the first stone. The world would be a much better place if we agreed to disagree and left it to a higher power to decide.

P.S thanks for this hub just gave me an idea for my next one.


stricktlydating profile image

stricktlydating 6 years ago from Australia

Thankyou for publishing this hub. I don't have any particular regligious beliefs, but I have strong feelings against abortion. I believe there needs to be more regulations. I cannot stand it that some women have three or more abortions, because they feel they don't want to have their baby. It's not good enough! There needs to be more education on this subject too, because the 'fetus' may be already a fully formed little baby (not a blob or a tadpole) - If only they could see it's face before they abort it! Also, on another point you touched on, a baby should be a baby at birth - for example if you loose your baby from Miscarriage just because it hasn't lived to reach a certain weight or certain number of weeks during the pregnancy, doesn't mean a baby wasn't born - I mean in cases of late miscarriage where a woman can see and hold her baby but the law doesn't allow the baby to have a birth or death Certificate. It's the loss of a child regardless, and parents should at least have the right to that.


stars439 profile image

stars439 6 years ago from Louisiana, The Magnolia and Pelican State.

Wonderful informative article.GBY Dear Heart.


spiderpam profile image

spiderpam 6 years ago from USA

Great hub. It funny how ALL pro-choice people are already born. I'm pro-life! Keep it up Cari and God Bless~


Cari Jean profile image

Cari Jean 6 years ago from Bismarck, ND Author

in it 2 win it - thank you so much for reading and for your comment. You're right, pregnancy can be avoided, though unfortunately unless a woman gets pregnant through rape or incest which I believe is a terrible evil. I do believe it is better to overcome evil with good, and even though it would be painful, I believe the baby still has a right to live in those cases.


Cari Jean profile image

Cari Jean 6 years ago from Bismarck, ND Author

NotAMoralSimpleton - I will try to address each issue that your brought up. But first thanks for reading and for expressing your views.

The reason SOME (not all) pro-lifers are against contraception is because some types of contraception cause spontaneous abortions (such as the pill). Personally, I am on a type of contraception that does not do this. It would be great if we as humans could all follow along with God's plan and remain abstinent until married. He created sex, but I believe He created it with the intention of it being between a married man and a woman.

As far as the Bible not addressing abortion. No, it doesn't address it specifically but there are many issues the Bible does not address specifically, we are to learn the principles the Bible teaches us and try to apply them to every area of our life. For example, the Bible does not say, "Husbands shall not beat their wives" the Bible does tell husbands to love their wives and if they truly love their wives in a Godly manner, they will not beat them. In every instance in the Bible where God talks about the womb, it is always concerning that life is inside the womb. Since he gave us the commandment "thou shalt not murder" I believe we are to apply that to the life inside the womb as well.

We do not know for sure that if abortion becomes illegal there will be more back-alley abortions. We simply do not know that. I would like to think that by making abortion illegal, people would think twice and become more responsible. I don't think we can say for sure that there will be a higher number of suicides among teenage girls.

I'm not sure why there would be more late-term abortions and I don't agree that it is preferable to have the abortion as early as possible - life is life no matter what stage it's in.

It is part of the evil in this world that children are mistreated and abused. It is a tragedy when this happens. But I don't think it's right to not allow that child to live in the first place. Many children who do not have good backgrounds go on to do amazing things. (Like our current president, for example.) God has a purpose for each life, sometimes that person's life is hard and painful, but that child was still born with a purpose. Who are we to say that we are not going to allow a life's purpose to be fulfilled?

In regard to a pregnancy through rape or incest, again while a tragedy, I do believe it is better to overcome evil with good. It is not the child's fault this happened. Terribly painful for the mother, yes. But sometimes I think we try to get through life by avoiding pain at all costs and sometimes it is the pain we go through that causes us to grow and become stronger.

I understand that some women are placed in terrible situations which makes it hard for them to be pregnant. I myself was in a dire situation when I got pregnant. For health reasons it was high risk and my doctor suggested I have an abortion. I didn't and although my child was born with special needs that caused me and my husband to have to close our business and move so our child could get the medical attention she needed, I do not ever regret the decison to have her. Women need to realize that it's NOT "all about me."

"I would abort a child with Down Syndrone every time" This statement of yours brought me to tears. Every child deserves to live, special needs or not. All I can do is pray that you would someday see things differently.

It doesn't matter when the embryo becomes fully human. Fully human does not equal life. Life begins at conception. Does not a heartbeat constitute life? I am fully aware that premature babies have higher instances of having disabilities. My daughter was born 11 weeks early. But there have been babies born way earlier that have no health issues whatsoever. So I don't think that is any way to decide whether or not to abort the baby.

I really do belive that with advancing technology we will someday be able to keep an 8-week fetus alive out of the womb. Ten years ago they did not even attempt to keep 23-week old preemies alive but now babies born that early can live and some of them can thrive as well. As medicine keeps advancing in this area, I believe more and more people will see that killing life inside the womb is wrong.


Cari Jean profile image

Cari Jean 6 years ago from Bismarck, ND Author

Freudycat - thank you so much for reading and for sharing your story. I am so sorry for the things you have gone through and for some of the tough decisions you have had to make. Unfortunately I do belive there are those who have an abortion on a whim without putting much thought into it. But I know that for many it is a very painful decision, especially for a young girl. My sister was 15 when she got pregnant and 16 when she got pregnant again. She kept both of them and I am so proud of her for how well she's doing now. I think if she would have aborted one or both of them she would be emotionally scarred for life.

I believe that God truly grieves when it comes to abortion. When Cain killed Abel, the Lord told Cain, "your brother's blood cries out to me from the ground." I believe it's the same everytime someone is killed, in or out of the womb. I also know that God forgives. There is nothing that God will not forgive. God wanted so badly to have a relationship with us that he allowed His son to die on the cross.


Cari Jean profile image

Cari Jean 6 years ago from Bismarck, ND Author

REF - thank you so much for your comment. Everything you said is right on. Life begins at conception and then through time that life becomes a fully formed baby. Thank you for sharing these thoughts.


Cari Jean profile image

Cari Jean 6 years ago from Bismarck, ND Author

Penina - I know you already know this, but I disagree with your entire comment. Whether a mother kills her child in or out of the womb doesn't matter - both are tragedies. The only thing that is different is that if she does it after the baby is born she will be tried for murder.

I think that no matter how far along a woman is, there can still be emotional and physical consequences no matter how early it is done.


Cari Jean profile image

Cari Jean 6 years ago from Bismarck, ND Author

Diana Brooks - thanks for reading and for your comment. I'm sorry for any heartache you have gone through in your life. I believe we should be helping those who are not informed of their options. I believe it is a good thing there are laws being passed that ensure women fully understand their options before having an abortion. This includes having them view their unborn child on ultrasound.


Cari Jean profile image

Cari Jean 6 years ago from Bismarck, ND Author

James - as always, thank you so much for your encouraging comment.


Cari Jean profile image

Cari Jean 6 years ago from Bismarck, ND Author

Kebennett1 - thank you sooooo much for your comment! You are right on. My heart goes out to you for some of the things you have gone through and are going through. I know that by standing by what you believe, God will bless you for it.

You're absolutely right when you said, "Pro-Lifers have the one true reason behind their belief--It is murder to kill a baby, whether it is inside the womb or outside the womb! Something that is growing is alive, if you stop it from growing, you have killed it! Basic Science!"

There is evil out there that is causing people to not comprehend this. We need to pray that people's hearts be changed.


Cari Jean profile image

Cari Jean 6 years ago from Bismarck, ND Author

DreamLiving - I completely understand your points about the government being too overly involved in our lives, including the everyday decisions we make. But when it comes to abortion I don't think it should be about the rights of the woman or about a woman's choice. Why can't it be about the rights of the unborn child? Are we not a country that stands for humans to be treated with decency? We denounce countries who do not treat its citizens humanely. Why then, does our government go along with killing millions of vulnerable babies every year? I see the government as having an increase in disrespect for life and that scares me more than anything.


Cari Jean profile image

Cari Jean 6 years ago from Bismarck, ND Author

dejajolie - I'd like to respond to this remark you made:

"Isn't God and Love all about inclusion and therefore all of the talk of I'm for this and you're for that just create more bias and hate and in the end only God can judge."

God's love isn't all about inclusion - a lot of times it's about separation. Separating ourselves from sin. Separating ourselves from the world. God would like to include us all in His Kingdom, but ultimately it's up to us - He did afterall, give us free will. We must stand up and say what we are for. We as Christians must stand for truth which comes from the word of God. We must take a stand so that we cannot be overcome by evil. God admonishes us to speak for those who do not have a voice, which is what pro-life people do when they speak up against abortion. You are right about one thing, that in the end God will judge. He will not only judge people but nations as well and I often wonder how He will judge a nation that has allowed what He has created in the womb to be killed.


Cari Jean profile image

Cari Jean 6 years ago from Bismarck, ND Author

stricktlydating - thank you for your comment. I agree there does need to be more education. As I have stated, I think it is good there are laws being passed that a woman needs to see an ultrasound before aborting her baby. Also, I never thought about birth and death certificates when there is a late-term miscarriage or death. I think that is a great idea and would help the grieving parents gain more closure.


Cari Jean profile image

Cari Jean 6 years ago from Bismarck, ND Author

stars439 - thank you for reading and for your comment. I really appreciate it.


Cari Jean profile image

Cari Jean 6 years ago from Bismarck, ND Author

spiderpam - thanks for your encouraging words. Do pro-choice people realize that if their mother had made the decision to abort them then they wouln't be here? I saw a bumper sticker the other day that said, "I'm a Survivor of the American Holocaust." Everyone who has been born since Roe v Wade came into effect is a survivor.


James A Watkins profile image

James A Watkins 6 years ago from Chicago

I love your answer to dejajolie above BTW :-)


DreamLiving 6 years ago

Carl Jean, thanks for your response. As Christians, we know where the world is headed and the longer we can delay the government taking over our lives the better. Unfortunately, it can't be both ways with government. I, too, had to make a difficult choice due to medication given to me while I didn't know I was pregnant. Clearly, the fetus is human inside the woman. Consider this, I didn't know the government signed an international law banning the old asthma inhalers used by asthmatics for the worthless ones out now. I went to the pharmacy and was informed of the change. (We had to purchase travel nebulizer machines so we didn't have to purchase those worthless inhalers.) I had no say so. Currently, the international community is trying to force us to adopt the UN Convention of the Rights of Children. While the legislation seems like it will help children, it will not for it will destroy the family, as evidenced in many countries where it's in effect. As abortion goes, the answer is in educating women to make the right choice, to have other alternatives available to women, not giving the government the right to make decisions about our bodies. If the government can say "you can't" then it can say "you can" with your body. This translates to you can't have an abortion to we're over-populated so you can't have any more children, for the "good" of the country. I'm glad no one had the right to decide for me and my family, and my body, when I faced difficult pregnancies. We can't lose focus of our rights for safety for this is how we water down the Constitution. This is happening with terrorism and other areas (and we've lost nearly twice the amount of troops than those who died on 9-11). I am not a conspiracy theorist but I do know we're giving government too much control. Take time to read hslda.org on cases across America that will surprise those who think the Constitution still stands strong... kids taken from parents for going to church too much, kids taken from parents because a child who scored above her peers spoke too enthusiastically about her Christian beliefs, and so on. I abhor the killing of the unborn, especially knowing so the vast numbers who want to adopt. And, one writer was correct in how God views murder. But, as we discuss this issue, someone just swallowed a pill in the emergency room to abort a human fetus. Are we going to get rid of the morning after pills and birth control pills.... These are all the same for the woman is getting rid of the fetus. Prevention is the key. And, allowing a woman to choose during difficult situations will have to be judged by God. I agree abortion should not be the means for birth control for irresponsible women and men. But, there must be an alternative to the matter (to taking away a woman's right to choose which could impact her life). Mw cousin couldn't carry all of her fetuses and two babies were aborted (due to the condition of her uterus). No one should choose for these women. There are more circumstances than we can imagine and in second guessing women, we are judging them, often without all the facts of their circumstances. I pray my daughter never has a life-threatening pregnancy. It is heart-wrenching, and I wish no one would ever go through it. I have to believe that if my mother aborted me, it would have been the right decision for her and she would have prayed and prayed about it, before she did it. Perhaps offering more women an incentive to birth for adoption would reduce the problem more. For those using abortion as birth control likely do it because they don't want to be inconvenienced. I just don't think we should give up rights to what we do with our bodies. Here's another thought... Teachers at school are in loco parentis for the students... if parents really understood that, the UN CRC and other legislation would not pass! I am a retired police sergeant and I was shocked to learn of a case where the principal exerted authority over a child that exceeded an officer's authority, and it was legal. I'm raising multiple issues here in hopes of sharing a glimpse into our changing American and cautioning us not to give up rights we have. We need to find another way to accomplish the goal of not killing the babies while preserving women's rights concerning their bodies.


NotAMoralSimpleton 6 years ago

As a religious person, you are incapable of logic or reason, so I will not attempt to change your mind. It really frightens me that people like you pick and choose what you wish to believe, and use arguments which are irrational and emotional to justify your claims. For example, surely intervening to save a premature baby's life is playing God, since He clearly decided the little one should be spontaneously aborted. Why is it OK intervene in this case, but not OK to intervene to cause an abortion? Both are presumably against God's plan. Is IVF playing God, or is that OK for some reason? It seems to me that you pick and choose what you consider right and wrong based upon your somewhat flexible interpretation of the folk history of Bronze Age sheep farmers. I prefer to organise my life with reason.

I mean. What makes you suppose that God's plan is for us to be abstinent? You believe He created sex for marriage, but how do you know the mind of God? I feel sure you have a dim view of homosexuality, but didn't God create gay men also? Are they not part of His plan, to be respected as much as any other? I think it would be great if you stuck your principles and let other people stick to theirs. Unfortunately, religious people are incapable of minding their own business. What I know is that the evidence is plain that humans are designed to enjoy sex, and that most sex will fail to result in pregnancy - for a start we have hidden ovulation.

"We do not know for sure that if abortion becomes illegal there will be more back-alley abortions. We simply do not know that."

Yes we do. We have already been there. You are simply in denial of the facts. You are wrong and there is nothing else to say about this. What you would like to think is irrelevant. For much of history, attempted abortion was quite likely to result in the death of the mother, so unplanned children were often killed soon after birth instead. Would you prefer that? Abortions will happen whatever the law says, but the consequences will be worse on average.

"I don't think we can say for sure that there will be a higher number of suicides among teenage girls."

Yes we can. One of the most common causes of teenage suicide is desperation. A girl recently killed herself after bullying on Facebook. A girl who feels trapped by social and religious pressures with no one to confide in, with fears of being found out, and with no solution to her predicament may well consider suicide as the only possible alternative.

"I'm not sure why there would be more late-term abortions and I don't agree that it is preferable to have the abortion as early as possible - life is life no matter what stage it's in."

It's obvious. Without an accessible and legal means of obtaining an abortion, many women will dither, maybe for months. This is well known.

"In regard to a pregnancy through rape or incest, again while a tragedy, I do believe it is better to overcome evil with good. It is not the child's fault this happened. Terribly painful for the mother, yes."

Two things: it is not a child by any stretch of the imagination until it is viable; it is sickening for you to say to the mother she should suffer anyway. I hope you do not ever find yourself in the situation where you would rather die than continue living, and also pregnant as a result of the trauma, just to rub it in. You holier-than-though types make me ill. You talk about saving lives but all you care about is a non-viable foetus.

"Women need to realize that it's NOT "all about me." "

No. You need to realise that that was your personal decision to make.

"All I can do is pray that you would someday see things differently."

For almost all of human history, a severely disabled child was a worthless and expensive burden parents simply could not afford. They did not share your squeamish romanticism. You are unbelievably fortunate to have the luxury to choose to bring up your child. You appear to value the alleged life of the foetus at the expense of all other considerations. I value quality of life, for both the parent and the child, and I value many other things.

"It doesn't matter when the embryo becomes fully human. Fully human does not equal life. Life begins at conception."

I think it is central to the entire debate for you, unless you are a strict vegetarian. I would have thought that a foetus is valued by you precisely because you think it is a viable human being. If your criterion is a heartbeat, I can only assume you do not eat meat.

"Does not a heartbeat constitute life?"

No. It is an autonomic system for pumping blood around the body. It is a simple matter to stimulate the heart or other muscles of dead animals.

"I really do belive that with advancing technology we will someday be able to keep an 8-week fetus alive out of the womb."

Perhaps. It will be interesting. I suspect we will also have perfect contraception, but that the Pope and others will still be opposed to it.


Cari Jean profile image

Cari Jean 6 years ago from Bismarck, ND Author

James - thanks again for your comment. I saw somewhere you are taking a few weeks off from HubPages - you'll be missed during that time!


Cari Jean profile image

Cari Jean 6 years ago from Bismarck, ND Author

DreamLiving - thanks again for your comment. I am unaware of some of the things you talked about regarding government control over our children. I will look at the website you mentioned. You are absolutley right that as Christians we know where the world is headed and that we must hold off the government intervening in our lives as much as possible. I also agree that there needs to be more education and more focus on prevention. As for some of the other issues you brought up, I really need to take some time to think about them - you may have changed my mind on a few points. Thanks again for your response - I really admire your wisdom regarding the points you made.


emdi profile image

emdi 6 years ago

Cari, your hub is one of the best article I read about Pro-life.


FisherKing 6 years ago

Your entire argument is predicated upon your claim that a fertilised ovum has the same rights and properties as an adult human, which is simply nonsense. Your claim is faith-based, emotional and wrong. Have you cracked open a recently fertilised egg and seen the tiny smear of red on the yolk? Is that a chicken? No, it is a potential chicken.

DreamLiving seems to be more thoughtful of some wider issues.


NotAMoralSimpleton 6 years ago

I heard on the news this morning that globally the number of abortions has fallen, and that this is attributed to contraception. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/8305217.stm. The article has some other interesting points, such as the high numbers of deaths or complications resulting from unsafe abortions, the fact that number of abortions is essentially unrelated their legality, and the fact that the ultra-liberal Netherlands has a low number of abortions per capita (due to good sex education and contraception).

It rather seems to me that if you truly want to reduce the number of abortions, you would drop your short-sighted religious objections, and get with the liberal program. I do not wish to dismiss the ethical dilemma, but it does seem illogical to put yourself in a position which ironically leads to more, and more dangerous, abortions. Which is more ethical: standing up for your principles, or actually making a difference? A little more pragmatism, and a little less dogmatism, is the way forward.


boggle 6 years ago

A couple go for IVF treatment using donor eggs. Eight eggs are harvested, five are successfully fertilised, two embryos are implanted and three placed in the freezer. The implantation fails. The couple thaw the remainder. One is damaged and the other two are implanted. The implantation fails.

It seems to me that every single one of those eggs would have been flushed down the toilet if they had not been donated, but that the couple gave all of them a chance to become a living human being. It was unfortunate that they did not succeed, but the truth is that even natural reproduction is touch and go. Many people are infertile. Many eggs fail to become fertilised. Many zygotes are unviable. Many viable zygotes fail to implant. Many pregnancies are spontaneously aborted.

The intervention of the IVF clinic greatly increased the chances of those eggs creating life, but I have read that many pro-lifers oppose IVF. It's mind-boggling.


itakins profile image

itakins 6 years ago from Irl

Great great hub,Thank you for speaking on behalf of the innocent little victims who cannot speak for themselves.


Cari Jean profile image

Cari Jean 6 years ago from Bismarck, ND Author

notamoralsimpleton - Due to the following comments you made that put me and Christianity down, I do not wish to respond to your comment.

"As a religious person, you are incapable of logic or reason...You holier-than-though types make me ill... based upon your somewhat flexible interpretation of the folk history of Bronze Age sheep farmers."

It is clear we are simply not going to agree. I base my beliefs on a Biblical Worldview, which you do not.


Cari Jean profile image

Cari Jean 6 years ago from Bismarck, ND Author

emdi - thank you for your kind comment, it really meant a lot to me.


Cari Jean profile image

Cari Jean 6 years ago from Bismarck, ND Author

FisherKing - thanks for stopping in. You're right, my claim is based on a Biblical Worldview and is faith-based - you may think this is wrong but I believe it to be truth.


Cari Jean profile image

Cari Jean 6 years ago from Bismarck, ND Author

Hi again, NotAMoralSimpleton - I read the article and I have to say I agree with Josephine Quintavalle, the anti-abortion Comment on Reproductive Ethics who said that "stopping women falling pregnant in the first place was an area where minds could meet."

"Abortion - back street or front street - is not the answer. Ensuring women have the means to end their pregnancies is not liberating them - they should be able to make real choices before they fall pregnant in the first place," she said.

I know you're not going to like this but I still believe it's about more education than more birth control.


Cari Jean profile image

Cari Jean 6 years ago from Bismarck, ND Author

boggle - I have to admit that I myself have to do more checking into IVF. I don't really understand why some pro-lifers are opposed to it, since like you said, that using those donor eggs incease the chance for life.

Thanks for your comment.


Cari Jean profile image

Cari Jean 6 years ago from Bismarck, ND Author

itakins - thank you so much for your encouraging words, they are GREATLY appreciated.


FisherKing 6 years ago

I have always struggled with faith positions. You have no rational evidence for your beliefs, but are more than ready to inflict them on other people as an act of law, which is contrary to the US constitution. I think you *are* capable of reason, so try this:

Suppose *my* holy book tells me that abortion is a legitimate activity. Whose God is right? It should be trivially easy to start a new religion like this (though many probably exist already), considering Joseph Smith's success in this area. But it's not necessary to go so far. Check out this: http://www.rcrc.org/pdf/We_affirm.pdf. These churches are officially pro-choice, and their congregations every bit as faithful as yours. What gives?

When religions differ, how do you know which one truly represents God's word? You don't. I'd say that if God exists, we are presumptuous to claim we actually know what He thinks. You should act according to your personal conscience in your personal life, let others do the same, and let God be the judge. All holy books are written entirely in the words of Man, and much evil has resulted from this.

My point is that you have no basis for your claim that a zygote has human rights other than your understandable emotional response, your holy book, and the misleading propaganda of the pro-life movement (your 'Help Me' image is a good example of this). Another religious person could come to the opposite view, and you would both claim to be obeying God. What makes you right and them wrong? On the other hand, we do have objective repeatable scientific and medical evidence that an early stage foetus is non-viable. That is a better basis for deciding whether it has any rights.

As NotAMoralSimpleton points out, your beliefs lead you to defend a legal position in which it is probable that more harm would be done to women and foetuses, rather than less. I just don't see how you rationalise that. Your beliefs are contrary to your stated goals.


dejajolie profile image

dejajolie 6 years ago from New Jersey/New York

Cari Jean- I believe it's "Hate the sin, not the sinner" Again, we are all man and are privy to our own faults and will have to be judged by HIM and HIM alone, yet Everyone is always concerned about what their neighbor is doing, instead of taking care of their own home.

P.S Yes I was raised Penecostal, I know scripture-but since I've come to adulthood and able to learn without parental infulence I know that it's not about "organized man-made religion at all" and the reason why I disassociate myself from it is because so-called "Christians" have been some of the most hateful, judgemental people I have ever met.


Hi Jinks 6 years ago

First of all,ER is fiction. Please do your research, in every state of the land and every day a mother dies of child birth. This isn't as bad as it was when one third of all mother die of child birth (1900).

The two main reasons for abortion is surport and surport. First the man leaves the pregnant woman. Second there is no money or income to help with raising the child.

Solve these two problems then there might progess.

I have yet to find any anti-abortion people that would ever help single mother with babysitting or helping with the finances. And I don't mean throwing ten bucks in the collection plate, but by way of paying the rent, food, medical, and all. But do you know what I hear: "NOT my child." Change this and you change the world.


tonymac04 profile image

tonymac04 6 years ago from South Africa

This is an issue on which so much emotion is invested that logic and reason sometimes fly out the window.

Some facts are

1. 70000 mothers died of illegal, unsafe abortions last year. They were so desperate not to have the babies that they had conceived that they put their own lives on the line, gave up their own lives to prevent the "potential" lives to come to reality.

2. Society, and religious people in particular, has a very judgemental attitude towards so-called "illegitimate" children. If you put a label like "illegitimate" onto a child then that child is already condemned and what mother would want to bring a child like that into the world?

3. The world is already over-populated and we don't actually need any population growth. But again the religious people don't want proper sex education in schools or proper contraceptive measures to be applied. This is quite simply disastrous.

4. The best way to limit poplutation growth is to promote a just society in which wealth is more equitably distributed. The wealthier people are, the fewer children they have. So spread the wealth around and fewer abortions will be needed.

5. War is killing. Why don't the so-called pro-lifers come out as strongly against war as they do against abortion? War kills actual, not potential, life. So I would think it is a greater moral evil. As is capital punishment, which most pro-lifers seem to support. Would the person in your picture hold his sign saying "Thou shalt not kill" outside the Pentagon? Or outside the home of the Governor of Texas, when he is signing the death warrant?

So my point is that we need to apply reason, soberly, to the whole issue of abortion. I am not in favour of abortion as a method of population control, but at the same time we need to look more deeply at the things that drive women to want abortions and try to rectify those, not stop women having control over their own bodies.

If the pro-lifers would put as much energy into creating a just society as they do into opposing abortion it just might happen the need for abortion will almost disappear. But while there is a need for it women will seek it. 70000 mothers have died for it. Surely they were each an irrepalceable individual with rights also. And one of the rights they should have had was the right to life, which meant, in their cases, the right to a safe abortion.

Love and peace

Tony


KellyEngaldo 6 years ago

You are brave women to post this. I admire your strength. Much like you I have lived with a heart condition and used to be very much pro-choice. I met a wonderful women who took the time and had the courage to challenge me. And after much conversation and thought and prayer, I am not pro-life. I don't like the term - I prefer respect life - "pro" implies a negative somewhere. Life has no negatives. "Respect for life" is a term that best describes my beliefs. Also, core to my belief is understanding and allowing only God to judge. But it is my responsibility to speak up much like my friend did with me - she took the time, made the effort - like you. I admire you both. Please keep up the great work. God Bless You and Your Family.


mike 6 years ago

Jeffry Domers & Adolph Hitlers Mothers both wanted abortions, but it was not available for them


Cari Jean profile image

Cari Jean 6 years ago from Bismarck, ND Author

FisherKing - I don't really want to get into a theological debate about what I believe to be absolute truth and why I believe that. But because of these beliefs, I have a respect for life - in all of its stages in the womb - not just when the fetus becomes viable.


Cari Jean profile image

Cari Jean 6 years ago from Bismarck, ND Author

dejajolie - I am well aware that we are to "hate the sin and not the sinner" so I'm not sure why you brought that up because I'm not talking about hating anyone. I am really sorry you have been hurt in the church. I know that Christains aren't perfect people. For me, I'm not too crazy about man-made organized religion either - I prefer instead to have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ.


FisherKing 6 years ago

You don't want a theological debate? I was talking about epistemology. What does it mean to know something? And how do you know when something is true? You value one ancient book above all the billions of alternative sources of information. How do you know it is the best one? You know with absolute certainty, do you, that God does not wish abortions to be legal? I doubt it, and you should doubt it, too. Live your life, and let others live theirs.

When you say you value life, what does this really mean? I value many things, and human life is one of them, but I do not value it to the exclusion of all other considerations. Should a person with motor neuron disease be allowed to choose when to die, and to get someone to help them, or should they be made to suffer the increasing pain and indignity until the bitter end? Should a woman who has been raped be allowed to choose whether to give birth to her attacker's child? My point is only this: you do not know.


My Child 6 years ago

Cari,

First off I would like to say I have pondered these questions a lot myself. Thank you for having the guts to voice them.

Second-wow! There are several I'd like to respond to but in the interest of time and space, I'll only respond to a couple.

I have a child as a result of a violent, almost death causing, rape. I can't even begin to explain all the emotions, rage and heartache but I WILL NEVER have an abortion, I believe it is wrong, period. My child is now a teenager and only knows their father disappeared before they were born. (Since I know nothing about the man, I can't tell them more, nor truthfully, would I)

Hi Jinks You said:

"I have yet to find any anti-abortion people that would ever help single mother with babysitting or helping with the finances. And I don't mean throwing ten bucks in the collection plate, but by way of paying the rent, food, medical, and all. But do you know what I hear: "NOT my child." Change this and you change the world."

I know you don't know me but my husband and I have helped MANY, MANY single moms by opening our home to them as have LOTS of people in our church. I am sorry you have not been privy to the goodness of people; Christian or otherwise. I hope this hasn't been your own personal experience or that of someone close to you.

As to those who say live your life and let others live theirs-I believe that's what we are doing. Without trying to be sarcastic, you're the ones coming to this hub and posting comments not vice versa.

I much prefer the words born again believer to Christian as

that is what I am. I, too, am against "organized" religion and all that's been perpetrated in its name. I believe based on faith, not what someone else says I have to believe. And my faith is what given me strength in the horrible situations of life(Faith is also what allows me to know there is wind, gravity and a multitude of other things also unseen)

Anyway, that's my two cents worth for whatever it's truly worth. Hope everyone has a nice day and enjoyable weekend.


Hi-Jinks profile image

Hi-Jinks 6 years ago from Wisconsin

Unfortunately, your style of group spends millions on ads, Protestors at clinics, and crazies to murder.

Spend the millions for single mothers, lead the protesters to babysit, and banish the murders.

This is how it works.


Freedoms Guardian profile image

Freedoms Guardian 6 years ago

What a powerful article! I am definitely becoming a fan. This is a well written and educated approach to a very emotionally sensitive social issue.


jenna 6 years ago

I think an abortion is legal only until mmmm, 24 weeks or so. Part of the reason it is legal until this point is that the fetus is not really a viable life form. It is the potential for life. If a woman gave birth this soon, the baby could not sustain life under ANY circumstances. It is indeed developing, but it is not yet alive. Women who try to commit suicide or have anorexia are not mentally or emotionally stable. So we intervene. A woman who decides not to carry a fetus full term, is not mentally or emotionally unstable necessarily.


Jorge 6 years ago

I don't think God would want us to make such judgements, he can handle it. If a woman has an abortion, it needs to be right with her, and God. We shouldn't pretend we have authority that we don't have.


Epleeba1 profile image

Epleeba1 6 years ago from Deep inside my own dark existence

Although I believe each person has the right to her own personal choices I cannot see any moral justification for abortion. This should be a personal decision with no other party having a say. Advice and instruction should be available. Options should be provided. Everything possible should be done to explain to the mother how people may feel but the decision should be hers alone. Laws and governments should not dictate this or any other personal decision. Forcing my beliefs on another person is wrong no matter how morally correct my beliefs are. I have the right to express my opinion and to try to educate others in why I believe the way I do but I should not have the right to force any other person to agree with me.


Lapis Lazuli 6 years ago

It is proven scientifically that it takes 26 years for a human brain to be fully developped. The kids in their twenties are still babies, according to the scientific world. The reason it takes so long to form our brain is because it is so microscopic, it seems endless to our naked eyes. The endless sea of neuropathways in our brain is so intelligent, not one human can understand the complexity of the brain and no human seem to outlive one another.

The medical world brags of its advanced technology yet all the doctors die in the end. Then we have the religions to inspire us to die, for the sake of another. We do have under our skull the smartest machine of all times. So advanced is our brain, it has the capacity to live for 750 years. And we dare kill fetuses. We dare commit suicide. We dare eat fast food and sugar so we die of cancer.

What is the difference between cancer and abortion ? Both forms of death are caused internally. Cancer should be just as illegal as abortion. Did you know that the greatest epidemy in the USA is obesity and suicides. Obesity is so nasty, it kills them by the millions.

Millions of fetuses killed vs millions of grown up humans killed from sugar addictions.

I was raped as a 16 years old virgin. I grew up very religious and I am still religious to this day. I was raped by a man who did not care if I became pregnant. He had one goal in mind and he achieved it with violence.

It is a good thing I did not become pregnant otherwise I would have resulted in an abortion, eventhough my religion is against it. As a pregnant teenager, I would have shamed my entire church and family, ruined my life, eventhough I was a victim to sexual abuse.

Women who use abortion as birth control should be outcast. Women who use abortions as a mean to their emotional, chemical and physical misery, should be allowed.

In China, women have no choice but to abort. If a Chinese woman is pregnant with a third child, she is required to abort, by law. Too many babies in China, the biggest country in the world.

Hear me lady, and no offence to your beliefs. Hear what a woman in 2009 has come to realize, out of the injustive of this world. To have a choice to give birth to a healthy baby is the new way in 2009. There are millions of sperms in one ejaculation. Only a priviledged few can make it as a healthy baby.

I have not read your other blogs/hugs, yet I have a hint by your titles that you have a challenged child under your guidance. Mozart's music will help your child greatly. There is a form of healing done with sound, called Music Therapy. Mozart is one of those composer who understood the infinite depth of the human brain.

Many books have been written about Mozart's music and the healing of the human brain.

My mom played Mozart music throughout my entire childhood. She knew I needed a lot of help. I was a child who was outcast because I was not normal according to them.

Ironically, I am the youngest of five children and the only one who graduated from University. And I was a disabled child who conquered my curses because my brain was rewire correctly with Mozart's Orchestra, under my beloved mother's guidance.

BTW Greetings from Seattle

Caroline Couture Taylor

The biggest crime you will ever commit is the betrayal to your own body. Why will you put an end to your life, don't you have a choice to live for as long as you wish ? You have a choice but a fetus doesn't. Ever wonder why !

Lapis Lazuli 2009


Rob Noneman profile image

Rob Noneman 6 years ago from Huntsville, AL

I'm curious what your stance is on the death penalty


MikeNV profile image

MikeNV 6 years ago from Henderson, NV

When you base your views on Christian Belief you take the side that what you believe is the only truth. So Christians take it upon themselves to enforce their views onto others. The World is not all Christian. In fact a full 25% of the World is Muslim. And they think Christians are totally wrong in the same way Christians think Muslims are wrong.

If God can do anything then he can fix every single mistake that has been or ever will be made. So let people choose for themselves. When you inflict your views onto other people you are infringing upon their rights.

The Catholic Church is anti-birth control. To the point where believing Catholics in African countries ripe with an AIDS epidemic are not using condoms because of their beliefs. And Husbands are infecting wives and vice versa with the virus because of their beliefs.

The issue is an individual one and you need to let people suffer or be rewarded for their own mistakes. There are plenty of things to worry about in ones own life... so it's not necessary to take on the worries of others.


ashleyz1 profile image

ashleyz1 6 years ago

I wanted to say thank you for this post! I am very strictly pro-choice 100% but I accept other beliefs and really appreciate anyone who can have a healthy discussion about opposing views without being angry or abrasive about it. I completely agree with you that a woman, at a certain point, has no right to choose abortion. Science is so precise now that we can know of a pregnancy remarkably early so there is no reason for choosing abortion far into the pregnancy. I do believe a woman should be able to make this decision early on though, prior to the heart beating/brain firing signals to the body. I do wish there were some better way to monitor this type of surgery. I have personally met someone who had 4 abortions. Personally, I dont think that should be allowed. This is not something to be used as a birth control method, that is just disturbing.

Again, thank you for intelligently putting your opinions out there and not treating those with differing opinions as "misinformed" or just plain wrong. I dont know if there is a wrong or right in this. It's a moral decision one has to make as to what they consider life and if they believe that stopping a life from forming is the same thing as taking a life away. There probably wont ever be a right/wrong answer...just a lot of very opinionated statements.


rmcrayne profile image

rmcrayne 6 years ago from San Antonio Texas

Wow Cari Jean, your hub has inspired a lively debate, including multiple hub-length comment posts. Lots of good points made. Perhaps that is why this hub was one of the 8 or so featured hubs today (on the opening page to the site before sign in). Just wanted to make sure you knew. Well done.


misty spriggs 6 years ago

Hello, First let me say that this was a wonderful well written piece and I enjoyed it. You did bring up some very good points which I also appreciated, yet I am pro choice. I am pro choice because I believe only an individual can decide what is right for their own life. I also know that their are MANY children in this world that go uncared for, unloved and unwanted. My first question to all of the anti-abortion people I come across is this; what if it were your 9-year-old daughter and she were raped, would that make a difference? For me, it would. My responsibility, my first responsibility is to MY child and there is NO way that I would have my child go through having a child because some evil thing happened to her. I believe in God, maybe not the same as you, or yours; but my higher power would have me to take care of MY child. I believe that my God allows bad things to happen and we don't know why, we are left to deal with these things the best way that WE know how. I don't mean to say that I would not ask for guidance, I would, but our doctor would just about have to drop dead in order for me to make my baby have a baby. I come from a family where there is a history of child abuse. I have a niece who had a child at a very young age and her "husband" beat that child to death. I wanted her to have an abortion. My fundamentalist Christian mother would not hear of it and my very young niece married this much older man whom she should have never been with in the first place. I think that it would have been preferable for the "zygote" to have been aborted before it could "feel" pain than to have my great nieces head bashed into the wall and become brain dead. This is not the only issue. Children having babies they are not prepared to take care of because their parents do not want them to have abortions do not generally make good parents. Adoption CAN be a good alternative, but this is not always true. It is unfortunate that we live in a world that has become so corrupt that I have to say I would not want ANY of my grandchildren adopted out. I could not sleep at night wondering weather or not the people they were adopted by were "really" good people or if they just "looked" good on paper. This is REAL, I am not paranoid, I am familiar with the system more than I care to recall. As for me, I have four children of my own. I am fortunate. I did not remember my own childhood abuse until I was much older. I had a wonderful mother-in-law that played a huge part in teaching me to parent and I took parenting classes. I was the lucky one. I have four siblings that were not so lucky and I watched them all bear children irresponsibly and their children have children and let me tell you...it has not been pretty. I have taught my children that they are not to have children until they are prepared to care for them in every way, though there are many means of contraception and abortion is certainly NOT to be used as a contraception that is disgusting and not at all the message I mean to portray. I am only suggesting that there are way to many unwanted children in this world, they are running around raising their selves and the cycle...unfortunately, continues, as they too reproduce and make children that they are unprepared to take care of. Who will tend to these children? Many of them will be born ill with diseases, addicted to drugs. I am sickened now as I watch the news at the number of parents that are killing their children, their LIVE children, not their fetus, not their zygote, but their children. I wonder if these people WANTED their children or if they were forced or persuaded to have them by someone who thought they knew what was "best" for them. I can't help but get angry when driving down the rode and I see a bunch of people picketing, "STOP ABORTIONS", it may be very wrong for you, for me, and if it is I suggest you don't do it, but who are we to tell ANYONE what they should or should not do for their own lives. It is NOT about their body, it is about their tomorrow, weather or not they can live with their decision, weather they can cope, weather they will pull the trigger, snap, walk over the cliff. I don't think that any of us should take it upon ourselves to make life altering decisions in anyone's lives, all of our God's, yours, mine, whatever you believe; we only get one life to live at least in this life; so make your choices for YOUR life and be happy with it and bless your neighbor and pray they make the right choice in THEIR life for THEIR life...AMEN!


mgoggi 6 years ago

Hello, This is a very interesting topic. I have a comment I would like to share with the group. First of all, the Church does not believe in abortion or anything that will compromise the dignity of the human person. We are created in the image of God--Imago Dei. This term is rooted in Genesis 1:27 where God created man in his own image.

This passage refers to the fact that man is the image of God in their moral, spiritual and intellectual nature. Thus we mirror God's divinity in our ability to actualize the unique qualities with which they have been endowed, and which make them different than all other creatures: rational structure, complete centeredness, creative freedom, a possibility for self-actualization, and the ability for self-transcendence.

Any action or act which compromises man ,be it abortion or adultery, also compromises the intent for which man was created. Remember, we were created to walk in fellowship with the creator.To say that humans are in the image of God is to recognize the special qualities of human nature which allow God to be made manifest in humans. In other words, for humans to have the conscious recognition of their being in the image of God means that they are the creature throught whom God's plans and purposes can be made known and actualized; humans, in this way, can be seen as co-creators with God. The moral implications of the doctrine of imago Dei are apparent in the fact that if humans are to love God, then humans must love other humans, as each is an expression of God. The human's likeness to God can also be understood by contrasting it with that which does not image God, i.e., beings who, as far as we know, are without self-consciousness and the capacity for spiritual/ moral reflection and growth.


mward1125 profile image

mward1125 6 years ago from Arizona

Just finished your hub and all the comments--nice little debate you stirred up! Although I think we're pretty much polar opposites on most matters (I'm pro-choice, gay, agnostic), I did enjoy reading your hub and your responses, especially to people who disagreed with you. I don't agree with your views, and I would imagine you don't agree with a lot of mine, but that's okay. I respect that you have your beliefs, and from your hub, I got the feeling you respect that others have their own. Nice job!


mkott profile image

mkott 6 years ago from Reno, Nevada

I am Pro-Choice but hope that a woman is in the position to be Pro-Life. In an all perfect world there would be no need for abortion. The last time I checked it wasn't a perfect world. I have no right to step into someone elses life and dictate to them what I feel is right.

I do not agree that life begins at conception. Unless you want to get down to the cellullar level of life. If you want to get down to cells yes they are alive but are they life as we know it as human. Someone is considered dead when the brain is no longer a viable living organism but we consider something "life" when the brain has not even formed.

Abortions will not go away until women are Completely impowered to have children when they want them or not want them. With that in mind illegal abortions have killed many women. Is it okay for women to die in this manner?

As for those that call themselves Christian/Religous but back their words with hate! Shame on you.

For those that think a rape or incest victim if pregnant should go through the pregnancy. I will be very bold in saying you have never been in that position and have absolutely no business telling someone to go through with the pregnancy. I used to counsel victims and had a 12 year old girl that was pregnant from incest. Her family gave her no choice, she was to have the child. She hung herself. I cannot tell you or explain the emotion that went through me. I left that line of work and needed counseling afterwards. 25 years later I still think of that beautiful broken girl that no one cared enough to do what was right for her.

I know this topic is a "hot" one but please remember there is more to life than what is going on in your own personal world. Love and Kindness goes much further than hate. Instead of putting so much effort into make abortion illegal wouldn't it be of better use to make birth control accessible to all, at an affordable price.


Cari Jean profile image

Cari Jean 6 years ago from Bismarck, ND Author

Hi Jinks - I am aware that ER is fiction but the reason I began this article with this scene is because it is what inspired me to write it and it is reality this type of mindset exists. IF a baby is in the womb at 32 weeks and is killed it is considred abortion, out of the womb it is considered murder. That to me, does not make sense.

I know there are women who die during labor - I am not opposed to aborting the fetus to save a mother's life. But, there are also women who die during legal abortions - about 400 a year.

When the man leaves the pregnant woman or there is no money to support the child, might I suggest giving the baby up for adoption instead - problem solved.

There are many people I know of, both pro-life and pro-choice who help out single women. There are also churches, counseling centers and other support groups these women can turn to for help.


Cari Jean profile image

Cari Jean 6 years ago from Bismarck, ND Author

Tonymac04 - thanks for reading and for your comment.

1. It is documented that in 1972 - the year before abortion became illegal in the U.S. 39 women died from illegal abortions. Throughout the world the reason many women die is because of lack of healthcare and education. I think in third-world countries we should focus more on education and less on abortion - legal or not.

2. I think society has come a long way into accepting these 'illegitimate' children you talk about. Many, many children have been able to overcome this label and have gone on to do great things. Why wouldn't a mother want to give her child that opportunity? Children in general have a tough time if they are perceived different in any way. Does this mean we should stop having children because they might be labeled?

3. In a debate I had once had with a friend of mine, the topic of overpopulation was brought up. I told my friend to send the people to North Dakota. We only have 600,000 people in our state and we could use more! I don't think abortion is the answer to help control the population. In countries where this is a problem, there needs to be proper development such as clean water systems and basic health care. My problem with sex ed in the school is that I don't think it has to happen in 4th and 5th grades.

4. Again, instead of trying to limit population growth, why not opt for better infrastructure and basic health care to provide for the population.

5. When say war is killing actual, not potential life - I think the fetus is actual life. I do struggle with the issue of war as I see it as a means of protecting our country and I believe we would not have the freedoms we have without our troops fighting for those freedoms. I do not like the fact that innocent people are killed.

I do not support capital punishment and I myself do not understand how pro-lifers can support it. No matter what crime committed, I still believe it should be up to God to determine whether a man lives or dies.

I agree with you that we need to look more deeply at the things that drive women to want abortions and try to rectify those.

I am beginning to see that pro-lifers may need to fight their battle a little differently. Some pro-life people are so focused on aboloshing roe v wade that they ignore ways to help decrease the number of abortions.

It saddens me that so many women have died trying to abort their babies. I do believe that more education would be better than legalizing abortions.


Cari Jean profile image

Cari Jean 6 years ago from Bismarck, ND Author

KellyEngaldo - thanks so much for your comment and for your encouraging words. I am not sure if I am brave or just a little naive?! I thought I might get some feedback from the article, but not this much!

I am curious to know what type of heart condition you have.

I like the term respect life as well. I think the term pro-life was brought about in an answer to pro-choice, which was thought up by an advertising agency. But I do agree - we need to respect life in ALL of its stages.


Cari Jean profile image

Cari Jean 6 years ago from Bismarck, ND Author

mike - do you know this for a fact, if so where did you get this info? Regardless of whether it's true or not even though we know the atrocities of Adolf Hitler and Jeffrey Dahmers, their mothers did not know what their sons would become - none of us do but no matter what choosing life is a better alternative than abortion. There is an evil force in this world, which I believe both men were influenced by. We are simply repaying evil with evil if we think abortion is the answer.


Cari Jean profile image

Cari Jean 6 years ago from Bismarck, ND Author

Hi again FisherKing. I know with absolute certainty that by following the Bible and the teachings of Jesus Christ I am following truth. I believe God created this universe, I blieve He created Adam and Eve, I believe all accounts in the Old Testament are true. I believe the Old Testament contained many prophecies which came true in the New Testament. I believe there is evidience that Jesus Christ died on the cross and rose three days later. What other leader of any religion can claim to have life after death? What other leader claimed to be the truth? Jesus said He is the way the truth adn the life. No other religious figure makes these claims. That is why I believe what I believe and because of these beliefs I know that we are made in the image of God. I believe that God knew us before he formed us in the womb. I believe he has a purpose for each life He creates. I believe He is the author of life and death and by putting that authority in the hands of humans, we are playing God. I will live my life but I will also speak up for others who cannot speak for themselves, as this is what the Bible commands of me.

I value life - in all of its forms and all of its stages. Life is god-given and every day the enemy (satan) seeks to kill, steal and destroy life which is what the battle is really all about. It is sad when one has to suffer while living life but I still don't think it can be up to us to determine when that life ends.


creativeone59 profile image

creativeone59 6 years ago from Gold Canyon, Arizona

Amen and Amen, Cari Jean we're on the same page, if you visit my hubs you find that we have at least the pro life hubs in common. The babies cannot speak for themselves and someone has to care whether they live or die. and all we 're doing is showing that we care. thank you for sharing. creativeone59


cindyleedavis profile image

cindyleedavis 6 years ago from cindyloudavis@hotmail.com

Cari Jean, there are so many responses to your hub topic.

I don't have time now to read them all. Abortion has many issues on both sides. Yes, I believe that life starts at conception. I have not had a abortion but I did spend an hour once in a clinic planning on getting on. I took a pregnancy test there in the office with the nurse, and inside I was excited...then she had to draw blood. She had to do it twice and still could not get blood out.

When it was time to climb onto the bed, I saw a jar with a metal lid on it. All I saw was a baby torn apart inside that glass jar. The nurse came after me one more time for the blood test, when she came in to the room, i was in tears. I couldn't go through with it. I got my money back and left.

I know that the nurse did what she did on purpose.

And I know that God was there intervening.

In the last two years, I have lost a grand daughter to an abortion. When I found out, i cried for along time.

The baby was old enough to live outside the womb.

I want to comment about the person who talked about

premature babies. I want you to know that I was premature.

I was born three months early. I didn't have physical problems, I did have some learning issues when I was little

but nothing that stopped me from living my life and growing up. Thank God for incubators! Abortion is a very difficult thing to think about, to have to choose either way, for whatever the reason. And I am sure that there are critics on both sides of the table.

Life is life. And God creates life. That is the bottom line.

Keep it or not you are making a choice. Disrepect and low self-esteem, vices like alcohol, weed, etc. change your jugdement. Not using birthcontrol is stupid. That is why it is available. Education in very important. Know the facts.

Then you can make the best choice.

Thank you for your hub. There are questions about abortion that many of us don't understand.


elliot.dunn 6 years ago

ms. jean - you made an excellent point about self-mutilation: if the idea is that a woman can do whatever she wants with her body, starving herself, cutting herself, etc should all be not only allowed and socially respected but legally protected. seriously an amazing point. thanks again.


DrChi 6 years ago

Dear Cari Jean - I read your hub and I applaud you on your achievements both ethical & spiritual. There were several issues, that you mentioned in reference to your inability to understand and obviously you still wrestle with how any one individual could justify such matters of ethics that you perceive as so morally unacceptable. In an attempt to answer such matters of perception & ethics I will say this... I have had certain revelations in truth and understanding in my life. It is the understanding that my role that I shall play in this lifetime is a role to encourage our collective humanity here on earth so that our purpose as a people may be revealed to us through the unification of all mankind. It is only through the fragmentation of our society that we as individuals become confused. The same is true concerning the matters of abortion and why some choose to perform it. You must realize that abortion is nothing but a medical tool. And like any tool its use can constitute both good & evil purposes. It merely comes down to a point of why people perform violence with any tool or practice. And it comes to a point of understanding that all people's misconceptions and poor ethics are a direct expression of this very fragmentation. And, in the light that all life is sacred and that its diversity should be preserved, it is the purpose of life that we embark on a journey which will allow its discovery and expression in a state of absolute oneness. And by embarking on such journey these matters of confusion will become clear to you. There is good in all people, it is merely the fragmentation that they experience from our present day society which has misguided them from such goodness. Jesus, too, spoke of oneness and it was his understanding of this oneness on both secular & spiritual matters which constituted his perception of all things, good & evil.


Cari Jean profile image

Cari Jean 6 years ago from Bismarck, ND Author

My Child - First of all I am so sorry for what you went through and I really admire your strength and being steadfast by still having the child. I agree with you 100% in your comment to Hi Jinks. Thank you for reading and thank you so much for your comment.


Cari Jean profile image

Cari Jean 6 years ago from Bismarck, ND Author

Hi-Jinks - not sure if you are the same person as Hi Jinks. My style of pro-life does not include crazies to murder. These are extremists as I mentioned in the article and we do not condone their actions. Yes, we must try to help single mothers but we must also try to educate and create awareness which takes money to do.


Cari Jean profile image

Cari Jean 6 years ago from Bismarck, ND Author

Freedoms Guardian - thank you so much for your comment and your encouraging words. I checked out some of your hubs - very impressive and am becoming a fan of yours as well.


Cari Jean profile image

Cari Jean 6 years ago from Bismarck, ND Author

jenna - thank you for your comment. So what happens in the future when a 22-week old baby is able to survive outside of the womb? We have come a long way in the field of neonatology and babies are able to survive at younger and younger gestational ages. That's why I believe abortion should be illegal during all stages of life. You say the fetus is the potential for life but I believe it to be life - when it is growing and developing in the womb it's still life, just at different stages.

I agree that a woman who decides to not carry a fetus full term is not mentally or emotionally stable (although they could be) but by having an abortion they could cause harm to their bodies and end up with depression which is what I believe they should be protected from.


Cari Jean profile image

Cari Jean 6 years ago from Bismarck, ND Author

Jorge - thank you for reading and for your comment. I agree - we shouldn't pretend we have authority we don't have which is why I don't think we should decide when and if it's ok for a life to end. I agree also that God can handle the judgement part of it, just as He will handle the forgiveness and healing as well.


Cari Jean profile image

Cari Jean 6 years ago from Bismarck, ND Author

Epleeba1 - thank you for your comment. I agree that advice, instruction and options should all be available. I also agree that everything possible should be done to explain to the mother what exactly is going to happen and allow her to see her fetus/baby via ultrasound first.

For me, it's not a matter of forcing my beliefs on someone it's a simple matter of respecting life - imagine what a different world this would be if we all had a respect for life.


Cari Jean profile image

Cari Jean 6 years ago from Bismarck, ND Author

Lapis Lazuli - you make some good points in your comment, like it takes 26 years for the human brain to be developed. I see what you are saying about cancer and obesity and I do think we, especially Americans need to take better care of our bodies - but that is the choice we have - to live a healthy lifestyle or not which makes it different than abortion because the fetus/baby has no choice in the matter.

I am so sorry what you went through as a teenager. I hope you have found healing for such a traumatic situation. It is sad that a pregnant teenager has to worry about causing shame to so many people, I think the church needs to be more understanding and accepting of these situations.

It breaks my heart what happens in China. Reality is though that just as many babies are aborted each year in this country as in China, although here, thank goodness women are not forced to have abortions.

Yes, I have a special needs child and I appreciate your suggestion about the Mozart music. My mother-in-law has said the same thing. I admire you greatly for overcoming your disability and going on to finish college - you are a very strong and brave person and I can only pray for the same result for my daughter.

Thank you again for your comment and for your insight.


Cari Jean profile image

Cari Jean 6 years ago from Bismarck, ND Author

Rob Noneman - If you read my other responses to some of the comments you made you will find that I am against capital punishment. No matter what the crime, I don't think it should be up to the law to decide if that criminal lives or dies. Ultimately this kind of decision should only be up to God.


Cari Jean profile image

Cari Jean 6 years ago from Bismarck, ND Author

MikeNV - thank you for reading and for your comment. I understand that Christians think they are right and Muslims think they are right but what if we don't view it in terms of what we believe to be true, what if we agree to all have a healthy respect for life?

I don't know if God necessarily fixes our mistakes for us because He still allows us to suffer the consequences. What He does do, however, is take a horrible situation and make something good come out of it.

I think the answer in these African countries is education, but if they are still having sexual relations I do believe they should be allowed to use contraception especially in light of the AIDS epidemic.

By standing for life, I don't think I'm taking on the worries of others, I'm simply trying to be a voice for the voiceless - which includes the unborn. We need to make stands for what we believe. I think this would be a better place if we weren't so caught up in the "it's all about me" mentality but instead reach out and help those in need.


Cari Jean profile image

Cari Jean 6 years ago from Bismarck, ND Author

ashleyz1 - thank you so much for your comment. I agree that using abortions as birth control is very disturbing and I think there should be more done to help women like this.

I still believe that no matter how early the woman has an abortion it will still be hard for her emotionally, I know of many women who have had miscarriages in their first months of pregancy and they are still affected by it years later.

Thank you for stating that I am "intelligently putting my opinions out there" - it is not my intention to tell the other side they are wrong, but it is my intention to maybe help people see the pro-life view a little differently.


Cari Jean profile image

Cari Jean 6 years ago from Bismarck, ND Author

rmcrayne - thank you for stopping in and posting a comment. I am amazed at what has been stirred up and I hope it is causing some people to see things a little differently. I know it has caused me to think again about some things I believe. For the most part it has been a good, healthy discussion - I just wish I had more time to respond to the comments in a more timely manner.


Cindy Frye profile image

Cindy Frye 6 years ago

Cari Jean (and others),

I certainly respect your right to your opinions, but those of you who cite "God" and religious reasons for not agreeing that women should have the right to choose, forget something...not everyone believes in "God". Therefore, that's a moot point for some.

I'm one of the "non-believers". I'm solidly pro-choice. I've also been directly affected by the controversy of whether or not a woman should be allowed to get an abortion in cases of rape or incest. Let me say that unless you've been through this, please DO NOT judge someone who has and DO NOT believe for a second that you're qualified to make the call. NO ONE other than the woman involved has that right. From the viewpoint of the woman who was attacked as well as the viewpoint of the child who's had to grow up with the knowledge of how they came about, the reprecussions of this decision are lifelong, regardless of whether or not a woman chooses to terminate the pregnancy. Too many people who use religion as their reason for being pro-life have absolutely NO idea what they're talking about when it comes this and have NO business piping in on this decision unless it's THEIR experience.

That being said, I certainly don't think that abortion should be a decision entered into lightly. It shouldn't be a method of birth control (which, for some people it basically is) nor, in my own opinion, should a partial-birth abortion be legal. If a baby is viable outside the womb, the situation gets more complicated. I don't understand why a woman would carry that long and then decide it's not what she wants and off to the clinic she goes.

Clearly this is an profoundly sensitive and complicated topic and I doubt there will ever be a "right" answer. I just know that religion is being force-fed to non-believers in EVERY social and moral topic and that's got to stop.


Brett Winn profile image

Brett Winn 6 years ago from US

I did not have time to read all the comments, so forgive me if I repeat what others have said. You wrote a wonderful hub. I hear you about how the woman can abort the "fetus" but not kill the baby. How about the doctor who delivers all of the baby but the head, sticks scissors into the back of the head, sucks out the brains and THEN delivers the baby? How is that not murder? Can you imagine what it must be like to BE that person with all that blood literally on your hands and heart?

I also don't understand why the father has no rights. He will be responsible to support the baby if it is born, but he has no say in whether it is born. This is a tragedy.

I am pro-life even in cases of rape and incest. If you are a victim of incest or rape, that is a crime and the perpetrator should be punished, but not the unborn child. The child IS a child, and is innocent of the crime. Be unselfish enough to give the baby life, and THEN put him or her up for adoption if you don't want that reminder in your life. Bad things happen. It's a fallen world. Two wrongs don't make a right. Do the right thing. Make it better. You will never regret doing so in the years to come.

Thanks for writing, I enjoyed it.


Disturbia profile image

Disturbia 6 years ago

Nothing sparks a good debate like the topic of abortion. I found your hub and all the comments very interesting and I can’t imagine adding anything more to the abortion debate. However, I read something in your hub which, for very personal reasons, disturbed me. I’d like to address this because I can see by your comments that you truly do not understand the issue.

Under the heading of “My Body, My Choice” you say you don’t understand the mentality of pro-choice people who say that a woman’s body is her own to do whatever she want with, then you give examples of anorexia, cutting, and attempted suicide to make your case. With all due respect, what you clearly do not understand has nothing to do with pro-choice mentality. You apparently do not understand the fundamental difference between a decision made by a mentally competent woman and the symptoms relating to psychological disorders and mental illness. You are comparing apples to oranges.

You pose the question “Is it not her choice to do these things to herself?” No, it is not her choice. A woman can chose to do any number of things to her body. She can choose to wear contact lenses in place of glasses. She can choose to color her hair or to have breast augmentation. But a woman does not choose to have anorexia. She does not choose the compulsive behaviors of cutting or self-mutilation. And she does not choose to have depression so deep that suicide seems the only way out. These behaviors relate to disorders and are treatable with therapy and medications.

Women making choices about whether or not they want to use their bodies to have children do not need intervention or treatment. Their decisions about their reproductive rights must be left to their own judgment and conscience. The outcome of that decision whatever it may be is nobody else’s business. No one owns an explanation to anyone else about such a personal decision.


Pseudonymous profile image

Pseudonymous 6 years ago

Great hub and I agree with most of your points. Too often the most extreme cases are used to justify abortion as a form of after-the-fact 'birth control.'


Cindy Frye profile image

Cindy Frye 6 years ago

This is directed to BRETT WINN:

I have to call you on something. You wrote:

"If you are a victim of incest or rape, that is a crime and the perpetrator should be punished, but not the unborn child. The child IS a child, and is innocent of the crime. Be unselfish enough to give the baby life, and THEN put him or her up for adoption if you don't want that reminder in your life".

With all due respect...unless you've had this experience, you shouldn't make that judgement. You call it selfish to terminate a pregnancy caused by rape, but have you lived through the profound violation of having some degenerate throw you onto a pile of rocks, punch you in the face, rip half of your hair out of your head and rip your pants off, jump ontop of you, force himself into your body in several different vile ways with various objects, including himself, while he tells you to "just wait till I'm done. I'm gonna cut your f****** face off your head and piss on your skull. Now shut the f*** up 'cause I'm f****** comin'...feels good, don't it?" Now, imagine that scenario ending with this scumbag grunting and spitting on your face laughing, telling you that he's got "the AIDS", and "welcome to the club, b****". Imagine still, the terror you might feel when he finishes and now you believe that your face is about to be cut off but he tells you "don't worry, I ain't gonna kill you. You got 'the AIDS' now though. What the f*** you think of that?" Then he kicks you 3 times in the ribs and tells you, "thanks, I hope you had as much fun as I did" and he walks off, smoking the requisite cigarette, leaving you laying in a puddle of your own blood and 3 of your teeth laying next to your head.

Let's not overlook the fact that the VAST majority of rapists are never caught and continue violating women for years and years with absolutely NO remorse or concern for the consequences. Do you REALLY want to call someone SELFISH for not wanting to experience the "joy" of THAT pregnancy???


mdawson17 6 years ago

This hub speakes very strongly! I commend you for writing such a great hub! Let the truth be known!!!


mmw20 6 years ago

I was forced to carry a baby until I went into labor myself even though my baby was brain dead. Church and state...there is a separation for a reason. By the arguments on this particular post you should be able to see why!


Dorsi profile image

Dorsi 6 years ago from The San Francisco Bay Area

Very well written hub with lots of very good questions asked. Questions that should be asked! I had an abortion at age 15, and still believed for many years that having one was "my right" (even though I had serious emotional damage from the abortion) I now totally believe the opposite, that what I did was a horrible mistake and that I took the life of my own baby (I have forgiven myself but it still hurts) I agree that women need be counseled during pregnancy about the complications of abortion - not only the short term effects but the lifelong ones.


FisherKing 6 years ago

Cari Jean,

Ah. I had a feeling this would be your answer. You believe this, you believe that, you believe the other, you BELIEVE whatever it pleases you to believe. But you don't actually KNOW.

"I believe He is the author of life and death and by putting that authority in the hands of humans, we are playing God."

So I guess you cancelled all your medical insurance, or is it OK for humans to save lives? Not so long ago, a seriously premature birth would result in the almost immediate death of the baby (and possibly the mother). Should we place them in incubators and save them, or should we respect God's authority in taking the life of the little one, and do nothing? I suspect your position is inconsistent on this. I suspect you believe we should not act to take life, but should act to save life. Is God the author of life and death, or just life? How do you know? You don't. You only believe.

"Life is god-given and every day the enemy (satan) seeks to kill, steal and destroy life which is what the battle is really all about."

As I understand it, Satan killed exactly zero people in the Bible, whereas God committed genocide on several occasions, including one notable global inundation. Much evil has been perpetrated in our society by pious individuals, but I'm not aware of any incidents in which Satan was found to be the killer. I rather think Satan has had a bad press. Not difficult when God controls the media.

Bible literalists are on very shaky ground when it comes to evaluating truth, so I think you should stop asserting that a fertilised ovum is a human being, and let people who know the difference between fact and fiction do the talking.


Cari Jean profile image

Cari Jean 6 years ago from Bismarck, ND Author

misty spriggs - thank you for your comment. You asked the question "what if it were your 9 year old daughter who got raped?" I shudder to think of that happening to anyone, especially a very young girl. Honestly, I'm not sure what I would do in that situation. I do know I would have some serious praying to do.

I am so sorry to hear about your niece and what she suffered through. It sounds to me if she would have made better choices before getting pregnant, she wouldn't have had to decide to abort the baby or not. I understand the rationalization that if she would have had the abortion early your great niece would not have suffered as she did. But there are children who get abused and killed everyday - we simply do not know what their lives will hold for them when they are born and even though they may suffer, I still believe God has some sort of plan for that life. We also have to remember that it is Satan who comes to kill, steal and destroy and Satan does not play fair. Even though your great niece has suffered much God can still redeem her life and make something positive come out of such a dire situation.

I understand that children do not always get adopted into good families - which I think is very sad. But it is better for them to have a life in the first place because we don't know what that child may be able to overcome despite his or her circumstances. Even children who get adopted into good families still struggle so would it have been better for them to be aborted too?

It makes me sick also that there are also parents who kill their own children, but to me it's no different whether they are in the womb or out of the womb. Maybe because of the number of abortions in this country we have become numb and no longer have a respect for life.

As someone who respects life, I don't want to decide for anyone what to do but I do want the unborn to at least have a chance. I don't think that's deciding, I think that's respecting. I do agree that we need to pray for people so that they make "the right choice in THEIR life for THEIR life."

It sounds like you are a wonderful mother and grandmother and I commend you for overcoming such difficult obstacles.


Cari Jean profile image

Cari Jean 6 years ago from Bismarck, ND Author

mgoggi - WOW - thank you so much for your comment. Very well said. We are made in the image of God - and that does not begin in the womb. God knew each of us before He knit us together in our mother's womb. It must make him terribly sad (He feels all emotions that we feel) that someone he knew before they were even in their mother's womb never even got a chance to live the life He had purposed for them.


Cari Jean profile image

Cari Jean 6 years ago from Bismarck, ND Author

mward1125 - yes, it does sound like we are polar opposites! I appreciate you taking the time to read this hub and also all of the comments. I am trying to be respectful of others as I know being rude really doesn't do anyone any good.


Cari Jean profile image

Cari Jean 6 years ago from Bismarck, ND Author

mkott - thank you for stopping in and adding your comment. You are right - we do live in a broken world. Because of that, there are people who live in dire circumstances.

I believe conception is the first stage of life. It is still life, maybe not in human form, but human development has to start somewhere.

There have also been women who have died during legal abortions. But of course, this fact is never brought up - only when the woman dies from an illegal abortion does it become an issue.

I hope I have not come across as hateful in this hub or in my comments because I do not agree with Christians who back their words with hate - we are to be motivated by love.

You're right, I have never been in the position as someone who got pregnant by rape of incest. I do know of women who got pregnant that way and are thankful they still had the baby (a few of those women have posted such comments.) My heart breaks for the young girl who gets raped or is the victim of incest. And I am so sorry to hear about the girl who hung herself and also for what you went through as a result. It is proof that evil in this world does exist.

I don't know if abortion will ever become illegal, but I do know that knowledge is power and the more a woman knows about the life growing inside her, the better her decision will be.


Cari Jean profile image

Cari Jean 6 years ago from Bismarck, ND Author

creativeone59 - thank you so much for your encouraging words. We do have to be a voice for those who do not have one. I will have to check out your hubs!


Cari Jean profile image

Cari Jean 6 years ago from Bismarck, ND Author

cindyleedavis - yes, there are a lot of comments here and I know it is hard to get through them all.

WOW! It does sound like there was some divine intervention at the abortion clinic.

I am so sorry to hear about your aborted granddaughter. I don't think women realize that their decision not only affects them but other family members and others around them as well.

My daughter was born 2 1/2 months early so some of the comments about premature babies bother me greatly.

Thank you so much for your comment. I know there are many questions about abortion that we don't understand but in the end I think it is more about respecting life.


Cari Jean profile image

Cari Jean 6 years ago from Bismarck, ND Author

elliot.dunn - thank you so much for reading and for your comment. I have become a fan of yours and think you have some great hubs. Keep up the good work!


FisherKing 6 years ago

"But there are children who get abused and killed everyday - we simply do not know what their lives will hold for them when they are born and even though they may suffer, I still believe God has some sort of plan for that life."

Do you not see how full of holes this reasoning is? How do you know what God's plan is for each life? Perhaps his plan for some is that they should be aborted at 24 weeks, rather than sexually abused as children (Nice plan there, God). You can't possibly know that this is not so. Please stop invoking God to explain your position. God's views on this matter are completely unknown, it seems to me.

I think we all recognise that abortion is a thorny ethical issue, with many contributing factors, and many different potential outcomes and alternatives. That is ultimately why it boils down to a personal choice. Sometimes the best (or least bad) path is obvious, and sometimes not. That choice is enshrined in the law for very good reasons, and it not for you to gainsay what another person might do when faced with that choice. If you insist on invoking God, try respecting the fact that He apparently gave us free will, and let Him be the judge.

The kind of absolutist position that you adopt is counter-productive, illogical, inconsistent, and unsupportable. I realise that this is a pointless request, as you have decided to pretend that what you personally believe is of much greater significance than any other factor, but please try to be a little more objective.


Cari Jean profile image

Cari Jean 6 years ago from Bismarck, ND Author

DrChi - thank you so much for your comment. I guess another way for me to look at it is that it is more of a spiritual battle like it talks about in Ephesians:

for our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of eveil in the heavenly realms. Ephesians 6:12


Cari Jean profile image

Cari Jean 6 years ago from Bismarck, ND Author

Cindy Frye - what if we didn't look at it from a religious or spiritual point of view and just decided to choose to respect life. To respect means to hold in esteem or honor - I think healthy people in society try their best to respect one another's lives and really that is all the pro-life people are asking others to do - to respect life inside and outside of the womb. Of course there are some tough circumstances people have to face and I do not wish to pass judgement on any of them. I only want to be a voice for those who have none and I think that is part of respecting life.


Cari Jean profile image

Cari Jean 6 years ago from Bismarck, ND Author

Brett Winn - thank you so much for your comment. I don't understand why fathers don't have rights either. They should be held more responsible.

I can't imagine what is going through a doctor's mind when they perform the more horrific abortions such as partial birth abortion (thank goodness that has been banned) and late-term abortions (which I believe in most states are illegal but there are doctors who are allowed for some reason to still perform them.) Then there are those babies who survive abortions and were thrown into wastebaskets or just left to die. It is just pure evil.

I do sympathize with women who become pregnant through rape and incest - it is a horrible atrocity. My only hope is that they will find healing through the ability to forgive.


Cari Jean profile image

Cari Jean 6 years ago from Bismarck, ND Author

Disturbia - thank you for reading and for your comment.

You're right - I should be more sensitive when it comes to women dealing with mental disorders in which something else causes them to do things harmful to their bodies. But correct me if I'm wrong, in most of these cases don't they eventually come to some sort of realization that they need help? If a person is unaware of making terrible choices for themselves I do believe that the healthier people around them should get them the help they need. Then hopefully these women can make a choice for themselves - to get help or not.


Cari Jean profile image

Cari Jean 6 years ago from Bismarck, ND Author

Pseudonymous - Thank you for your comment. You're right, there are cases where people justify abortion as "after-the-fact birth control." This is very sad and I wish people like this would be more responsible in the first place.


Cari Jean profile image

Cari Jean 6 years ago from Bismarck, ND Author

mdawson17 - thanks for your encouraging words.


Cari Jean profile image

Cari Jean 6 years ago from Bismarck, ND Author

mmw20 - I am so sorry what you had to go through but there is a misconception about separation of church and state in our constitution. You can check out this website if you care to:

www.allabouthistory.org/separation-of-church-and-state.htm


Cari Jean profile image

Cari Jean 6 years ago from Bismarck, ND Author

Dorsi - thanks so much for your comment and encouraging words. I am so sorry for what you have gone through but I am glad you are able to forgive yourself. Women do need to be more aware of the emotional consequences.


Cari Jean profile image

Cari Jean 6 years ago from Bismarck, ND Author

FisherKing - may I ask you a question? Do you think it is wrong for a man to rape a woman? If you think it is wrong then how do you know that?


Hi-Jinks profile image

Hi-Jinks 6 years ago from Wisconsin

It is a silly question. It is a woman's choice. Your God and your not helpful advice is not needed or wanted. You and your church lost that moral ground when children are born unwanted, uncared for, unfeed, and unloved; and you the Bible beaters do nothing. Help the situation and don't make it worst.


Hopesmom profile image

Hopesmom 6 years ago

I am not trying to piss off anyone but i think if you donlt want to have baby KEEP YOUR LEGS CLOSED, USE A CONDOM.USE B/C. It is simple as that. I am VERY PRO LIFE. MORAL SIMPLETON-NOT ALL YOUNG MOTHERS ARE IRRESPONSIBLE AS YOU CLAIM IN YOU POST. I AM A SINGLE MOM OF A PREEMIE WHO JUST ABOUT DIED IN UTERO AND IN THE NICU. I WOULD NEVER GET ONE AND IT PAINS ME THAT I TRIED SO HARD TO KEEP MY BABY ALIVE AND THERE ARE PEOPLE JUST THROWING THEM AWAY THAT IS WRONG AND IMMORAL.


prasetio30 profile image

prasetio30 6 years ago from malang-indonesia

I am Muslim, I think all the religion respect about all life. And I really disagree with abortion. it like kill the human softly.


Cari Jean profile image

Cari Jean 6 years ago from Bismarck, ND Author

Hi-Jinks - Christians have done much to help the poor, the needy, uncared for and unfed people, including children. The Red Cross and Salvation Army are Christian Relief Organizations. There are many other non-profit Christian-based organizations that help those in time of need. The Church steps in during times of disaster - like during Katrina. Where would all of these people be without Christians helping them through such dire circumstances. Unfortantely though we can only do so much because a lot of times it comes down to funding and corruption in countries we try to help. So please don't say that we "Bible beaters" stand by and do nothing.


Cari Jean profile image

Cari Jean 6 years ago from Bismarck, ND Author

HopesMom - I know, some of the comments I read brought tears to my eyes and caused much grief to my heart. We can only pray that these people will have a change of heart.


Cari Jean profile image

Cari Jean 6 years ago from Bismarck, ND Author

prasetio30 - thank you for reading and for becoming a fan. We all need to come together when it comes to LIFE.


Lissa Lynn profile image

Lissa Lynn 6 years ago from upstate NY

Great hub, Cari Jean. I always used to say I was pro-choice, but when I really stopped and thought about abortion, there was no way I could justify doing that. Now, I try hard not to judge others for their choices but it makes me sad to see the ease with which some women get pregnant and then head to the clinic to get it taken care of. Especially when there are so many couples who can't have children and would willingly adopt a baby.


FisherKing 6 years ago

"FisherKing - may I ask you a question? Do you think it is wrong for a man to rape a woman? If you think it is wrong then how do you know that?"

Yes. Isn't it obvious how I know? I have witnessed, studied, and discussed the enormous emotional trauma suffered by rape victims. I have suffered emotional trauma myself, in various forms, so I can imagine how it feels for them. It is no accident most humans regard violations such as rape as wrong. We are born with a natural sense of morality (it presumably has survival value in the wild) which can be seen as an inherent version of the Golden Rule - do unto others as you would be done by.

So my position is one of a natural human response combined with the real world experience of other human beings. The key is that it is evidence-based. I try to be objective: in cases where the evidence is counter to my natural disgust response, I go with the evidence.

Your position on abortion is not evidence-based. It is an emotional response which I would guess partly involves defensiveness towards your premature child. This is natural enough so far, but then you part company with reason.

A fertilised ovum is absolutely not a human being. It does not have emotions. It does not have memory. It does not have a personality. It does not have *any* attributes that are normally regarded as essential for a human being. It can develop these things during normal gestation, of course, but even then you are on thin ice. Only quite late in pregnancy does the foetus become a viable human being. This is what all the evidence tells us. There is no evidence that an early stage foetus suffers trauma of any kind when aborted. No personality is being extinguished in this process. In addition, many foetuses are born prematurely. If they are too early, there is nothing that can be done to keep them alive. A little later and we might be able to save them, but they are likely to be severely compromised. They simply have not had long enough to "cook" properly, as a friend put it.

This is what I base my position on. I don't claim to be perfect, nor to have all the answers, but reason is my protection from the darkness and ignorant superstition which has ruled humanity for almost all of history. It is by far our most reliable guide for how to proceed in life.

On the other hand, your religious claims are simply inconsistent nonsense because, like all religious people, you make up your mind first, and then look for religious justifications afterwards. You say you want us to respect God's plan, but you have no evidence for what that plan is. And you ignore the fact that He apparently planned for a normal pregnancy to be 38 weeks - so that before then the foetus is not yet a person. And you ignore the fact that He apparently plans for some pregnancies to miscarry - so that we should not try to save them (but we do anyway). And you ignore the fact that you do not actually know that He does not plan for some pregnancies to be aborted by humans. And you ignore the fact that if He is the giver and taker of life, you should not have medical insurance. Your belief system is an incoherent and self-serving jumble. What you really mean is that we should ignore all the evidence and base our laws on your personal emotional responses.

I note that you have not answered any of *my* questions.


Cari Jean profile image

Cari Jean 6 years ago from Bismarck, ND Author

Lissa Lynn - thank you for your comment. You're right, it's important not to judge but it's important to help girls and women to do the right thing, which according to my beliefs is to always stand for life.


May Belleve profile image

May Belleve 6 years ago from The Golden State

I understand where you are coming from... however, it is coming from a very narrow point of view. I'm not saying these things to be mean, I'm just explaining an opposite point of view:

I have never had an abortion, and I don't believe I ever would, but everyone in the world isn't me. I believe that first trimester abortions should be allowed for women that really do not wish to be a mother. Having an unwanted child and giving it away is a terrible option too. Why is it that pro-life people don't take on that cause? It's torturing a child, subjecting them to feeling unwanted for the rest of their life.

How about all pro-life people adopt 10 unwanted children? No, not perfect little babies; let's say you have to adopt crack addicted babies, or fetal alchohol syndrome children. Is it better the drug addicted mother to have sought a first trimester abortion? Or give birth to a child addicted to heroin? I think that's selfish... but that's just me.

How about young women who have been subjected to incest? Pregnant by their own relative. How about girls that have been raped? How about girls from really abusive households, but aren't old enough to live on their own? Should that girl remain pregnant, beaten every day, then bring a baby home to that fate too?

All I mean by this is that those that are Pro-Life need to understand that not everybody is living the same life. If everything in the world were peachy keen, white picket fence, loving Mom and Dad, planned pregnancy... I'm sure that there wouldn't be very many abortions. Unfortunately, that isn't the world we live in.


Cari Jean profile image

Cari Jean 6 years ago from Bismarck, ND Author

May Belleve - thank you for taking the time to explain your point of view. I really don't think that adoption is torturing a child - I believe adopted children may have some feelings of being unwanted but I also believe those feelings can be worked out and it is something they can come to terms with. I totally commend any mom who can give her child away in the hopes of going to a better place than the one she can provide. I think it's one of the most unselfish acts ever. I do believe there is a pro-adoption movement going on with Christians. There are hundreds of Christian organizations that are getting the word out about adoption and trying to make it easier for people to adopt. But I do think you're right that there may need to be more done about getting drug-addicted and FAS babies adopted as well as children with special needs.

I know there are tough situations where girls become preganant through rape and incest and there are no easy answers. And I know we live in a world that's far from perfect. There are evil things happening everyday and I guess that's where I believe it's best not to repay evil for evil because I do believe that aborting a baby is an evil act. I believe that God provides a way to overcome evil with good and that's why I believe what I do.


JMyste 6 years ago

I often make the claim, as I did a few hours ago, that no logical arguments are typically made for or against the issue of abortion. I have only an academic interest in the topic, as I know I would never, and will never abort a child, primarily because I will not conceive one that is not wanted. If faced with the decision in the past, I may have done it, though.

Thank you for restoring my faith in the pro-life argument. It goes far, as I have faith in very few things.


Cari Jean profile image

Cari Jean 6 years ago from Bismarck, ND Author

JMyste - I wish we could all take the responsibility you have about not conveiving an unwanted child. I get so tired of hearing about women's rights - what about responsibility? I too, in the past would have done it - without a doubt - I'm so glad I was never faced with that though.

Thank you so much for your comment.


Pollyannalana profile image

Pollyannalana 6 years ago from US

It is our government encouraging it too, you could have a young daughter given birth control without your knowledge which of course encourages them to be promiscuous and even having abortions before you would even know if ever or have a chance to discuss what would be the right thing to do. To many it is simply another form of birth control and I have read of many who have had this done could not carry a baby or even conceive when they come to the age to seriously understand the consequences abortion can cause other than the fact you have killed a living being. I will say right out after having so much pain with my first baby I was devastated to end up pregnant again three and a half months later, but I still after so many years could not guess to feel guilt over sticking a lit cigarette to a woolly worm and killing it. That has stayed on my conscience to never leave me, how I could be so cruel. I even think in rape that baby is half you but if you don't want it give it away. Maybe soon they will be able to just go in and take it at any stage and give it birth from a tube for someone who wants it. Congrats on the 100! Polly


Cari Jean profile image

Cari Jean 6 years ago from Bismarck, ND Author

Pollyannalana - thanks for your comment and for sharing a part of your life. I agree that the government encourages it - by not only handing out birth control but then by saying the minor does not need parental consent before having an abortion.

People do not understand the emotional and physical consequences of having an abortion. Especially with family planning clinic encouraging the woman to have the abortion and not telling them about all of the negative consequences. I don't understand these people who are so ready, willing and able to kill a little baby inside the womb.

I also agree in rape cases the baby should not be aborted - it's not the baby's fault. Why repay evil for evil?


alwayzzcitra profile image

alwayzzcitra 5 years ago from Palembang, Indonesia

The women's choices is actually to use birth control or not.

It's not to abort or not.


Cari Jean profile image

Cari Jean 5 years ago from Bismarck, ND Author

alwayzzcitra - very well stated. Thank you so much for your comment.


Amadeus 3 years ago

In the case of the ER episode, it's rather simple. She has a right to not be CUT OPEN without consenting to the procedure. I frankly think it was a horrible thing for her to do and I stop being pro-choice once the fetus is viable, but abortion is a far cry from refusing a forced c-section. I hope you aren't suggesting that they should have tied her down and split her open in the United States of America.


Cari Jean profile image

Cari Jean 3 years ago from Bismarck, ND Author

Amadeus - thank you for your comment. And no I do not think she should have been forced to go thru with the c-section but there should be legal consequences for purposefully killing a completely viable baby who happens to still be in the womb.

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