US, Unhearing, Silent

Bonuses
Bonuses | Source

Wall Street

On September 17th a campaign began in New York. This campaign became known as Occupy Wall Street and growing in support spread to other cities in the United States.

The protesters are protesting the inequality in the country and the greed of the financial sector.

For the most part the protesters have been peaceful and non-violent. They have been quietly protesting the financiers continuing arrogance in blatantly increasing their wealth at the expense of the poorer; with total disregard for what hardships others may face to appease their egos.

This growing fire probably started but was definitely kindled, by the bailout. This bailout meant that the government, with tax payer’s money, supposedly paid off the debts of the big bankers. These same big banks then used this bailout money to pay some of their employee’s bonuses. Some of these bonuses were by far in excess of what many of those tax payers would receive in a full year of work.

Did the recipients of these bonuses care about the amounts they received?

For the most part they are already what most would consider rich but yes of course they did. Not so much though for what number was at the front or how many zeroes there were at the end. Their concern was more for their egos. They were only really concerned as to how they fared compared to their contemporaries, they all wanted more than the next, so that in their egotistic minds they were better than the others.

Most work places settle for annual assessments but in the world of money, money is the only thing that counts.

These large financial companies consider that the more they give away in bonuses, the more efficient they look and the more investors they will get. They then use the new investor’s money to pay back the government. The company itself has done absolutely nothing apart from making some of the ‘elite’ amongst their staff richer. Nothing that is, except to display a blatant disregard for tax payer’s money and an enormous amount of arrogance.

The new investors, having now lost their money, will seek government assistance and the circle continues.

Source

Unhearing

The government who as well as tax payers, are seemingly pawns in the financiers games though, are not listening to the Occupy Wall Street protesters. Why?

They do not want to listen to the protesters complaints because they already know exactly what they are but do not want to do anything about it because it is these same companies that finance their campaigns. They are getting their slice of the pie. Why should they want anything to change? It would be illegal for them to take such amounts directly from the tax payer and so they need for it to be filtered through these companies.

Votes no longer speak
Votes no longer speak | Source

Silent

Why is the government not telling these financiers to change their ways, after all the protesters have probably got 50% of the voters behind them?

It is because the politicians know that America is no longer a true democracy. They have now become a “moneyocracy”, a place where only money gets a voice.

The voters no longer count, only money does, after all with enough money you can always manipulate an election. The voters are fickle, they may have many needs but the financiers are consistent in only ever wanting more money.

The voters could let them down at election time, whilst the financiers won’t not as long as you don’t rock the boat.

Finally, at the end of the day, the politicians want to be on the winning side and as these financial giants finance ALL the politicians, they cannot lose.

I applaud the protesters but despair that their efforts are inevitably in vain. I just hope that their peaceful protests and concerns for the country do not end up with the financial giants sponsoring a violent end.

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Comments 23 comments

rafken profile image

rafken 5 years ago from The worlds my oyster Author

JSChams - Once again I have to agree with you. The system probably would work if all things were as they should be, without peoples tampering but then again those same words have been said about socialism. As for being a stereotype, my views are my own from experience both inside and outside of the US, if they seem familiar then others must have come to the same conclusions.


rafken profile image

rafken 5 years ago from The worlds my oyster Author

JSChams - I enjoy the discussion too and you are right the next boss may be as bad or worse than this. The point is though, as no one has got a system right yet, then lets try something new. When I say not working, trillions of dollars in debt in a monetary system must mean something is broken.

Dagda - It would seem we have to prove nothing, you have done it for us. You talk of history over thousands of years, yet the NYSE was opened in 1792 and was the first one in the world to trade in stocks without restrictions. With this America led the way in the free market system and that is where it is supposed to be today. So what history do you have to base your views on? I base mine on the fact that the US is rapidly becoming like the old feudal system, where Lords held the sway and lives of those beneath them at their whims. This system to some extent existed throughout the world, yet did not seem to work as none exist today. Except perhaps with the one exception, Afghanistan but if it works there, why are you trying to destroy that? As for your school: is that the same one that probably told you that Columbus discovered America, when in reality he never stepped foot on the Americas. Is it the same school that taught you that the Indians[Native Americans]were savages, when now scientists are unearthing remains of some sophisticated civilizations?

The US has never been known for having the best schools but if you are the average student, the gap must be getting bigger.


dagda3772 profile image

dagda3772 5 years ago from Washington State

Peter, the facts are on our side. You have myths. We have history to prove what we say, you have an opinion. Unfortunately for you it's an opinion that has been proven wrong since the beginning of times. Don't blame us cause you want to change what has happened, or think it won't happen again. I'm a realist. What you want has never worked in all the 1000 of years man has walked this earth. You can argue against facts all you want, doesn't change the fact that what you want will only destroy America like it has every country to try it. Personally, I enjoy living in a country where I'm free to make the life I wants. One shouldn't hate cause they don't have. One shouldn't blame but oneself for what they don't have. Facts are facts, and what you want is fiction. Of course, you're mind is so clouded by fiction you refuse to see the facts. You even try to throw history in your claims, ignoring that history destroys all your claims. So yes, my mind is set on the truth. The truth of the facts. Your mind is set on a Utopia that doesn't, and cannot exist. So instead of hating the rich for having more than you, go out and get more. I have very little. My bank is in the negative. I'm not even considered lower middle class, the difference between you and me Peter, is, I don't live in a fantasy world. I live in the real world, with real history. Anyone can make a claim, but until you have facts to back it up, it's an opinion and opinions are assholes. Everyone has them and they all stink. When you are ready to bring facts, and I mean real facts into the debate, than you are doing nothing more than moving your mouth, and frankly, the world has enough people speaking without knowledge, we don't need more. When you look at true facts, you can't help but see what I believe. But yet, you say, I'm set in what I believe is the truth. Peter another fact, you are so set in what you believe, that you'll ignore the facts for 1000s of years just have it your way. Who's out there now? I don't damn anyone, I only ask you look at facts. Something I learned in school. Facts don't lie, myths do.


rafken profile image

rafken 5 years ago from The worlds my oyster Author

Dagda - You may well have researched but you should try and do some of it outside of your own countries media, which to the large part is propaganda for the rich. What have other countries done for the world, true very little but what exactly is it that you think the US has done? As a % of income the US gives less in foreign aid than most countries. They do no more, perhaps less, than other empires in history. They use the largest proportions of other countries natural resources, paying the cheapest of prices. They bully and even entice revolutions to secure these resources. You may see yourself as the "big brother" to the world, but that is because you gobble up your media's offerings. If America is so good to everybody why is it that they don't see you as a brother but as the bully in the playground?

I agree with you that research is important. That is why the US should look at history, then they will see that they are rapidly going the same way as other empires, only quicker. Learn from history, respect the people, all the people and most of all listen to all.


PETER LUMETTA profile image

PETER LUMETTA 5 years ago from KENAI, ALAKSA

Rafken, a very wise man named Groucho Marx once said,"You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him put on a bathingsuit" this same logic works with dagda and Chams. What they believe and think is in their minds "THE TRUTH" so no matter waht we say or anyone else says is not important to them, just like the TMP. Only their assessment of the world is valid and the rest be damned. It was fun, but not anymore.

Peter


rafken profile image

rafken 5 years ago from The worlds my oyster Author

JSChams - Personally that is an easy one, many places. Almost anywhere in Europe, some in the far East, a couple in Africa and even a couple in Latin America. Why? The US is a good enough place to live, if you have money but everything revolves around the Almighty Dollar, which is OK if you ensure that everybody has access to that dollar. If you are poor, then the US is probably one of the worst places to live, certainly in the "west".


dagda3772 profile image

dagda3772 5 years ago from Washington State

rafken name one thing Iceland and Cuba has done to better the world? Think about any socialist country, and ask what they have done to improve medicine, and life. Not a thing. As for Cuba, they are only socialist in that the people have nothing and the people running the government have it all. So they have the rich, and trust me, their rich is not going to give a dime to the poor. What would the world be without if Iceland wasn't around? Not a thing. Heck, you can't even export their horses. Yup, a place I want to live. A country that has to rely on countries like America for every advancement they have. Might as well be a third a world country in that case. rafken, Cuba is doing so well for itself, that it's people are everyday trying to leave it for America. Sounds like a great place to live to me. You really should do your research before you make comments like that. Look at more than the local liberal news, and actually do some research on you own.


rafken profile image

rafken 5 years ago from The worlds my oyster Author

JSChams - What of Iceland's success? Why do you, like the media, not want to mention it? As for Cuba, considering they were given no help from the rest of the world, they haven't done bad, yes many may be poor but at least they have free health care and don't mention the political detainees, is it co-incidence that Guantanamo is on the same island?


rafken profile image

rafken 5 years ago from The worlds my oyster Author

dagda- We get it, you don't like socialism, not many do. As you point out it doesn't seem to work but if the US falls, then neither does the free market as you see it. As it happens, socialism hasn't worked because of the greed at the top, I agree but that same greed at the top could also make the free market fail. What we are saying is that under any system, if the ones at the top are greedy and unchecked then no system will last for long. You appease yourselves by calling everybody else Marxists when you know they are not. Any system that is to have a prolonged life must have checks and balances on those that are at the top and those that are at the top must show concern for whats beneath them. After all, a fancy looking roof with no walls beneath it, is just a stupid looking, useless floor.


dagda3772 profile image

dagda3772 5 years ago from Washington State

Peter, I offer you the same challenge I offered a person called lovemychris. Show me a prosperous country that has ever had the form of government you want. You can't find one. Every country that has ever tried the government you want has failed. Failed because the people over threw it. So to say you want this for America tells me, either you have no clue what history shows, or you want to ruin America. Utopia will never exist. Every country has rich middle and poor classes. They always have, always will be. If you don't like the facts, tough. You can't make up new ones to fit what you want. The more Socialism you get the more the country will fall. The more Socialism you get the more power government gets. The more power the government gets, the more the rich those in government get, all the while you get less and have less. Free market, the right to pursue riches is the greatest freedom we have. You take that away, you take every free job in America away. Then everyone works for the Government, and we have a Socialist Country, meanwhile those in the Government get more money, and you get paid less, with less freedoms. If this is what you want, just say so. If it's not then stop and think about what you are saying, and put your nose back in a history book. Seems that you think your age is an advantage here. I think your age just shows how long it's been since you've had to look at history, and you have forgotten what is so clear to see. Socialism on any level does not work, unless the goal is to ruin the country using it.


Jeff Berndt profile image

Jeff Berndt 5 years ago from Southeast Michigan

"[OWS] are viewed as "Sixties Lite.""

By those who oppose the movement, sure.

"Protests complete with rapes and defecating all around"

You speak as though these were the norm rather than isolated incidents. Did you also dismiss the Tea Party as a bunch of racists?

"How about you pick somewhere and the globe and make things work the way you want them to work and hold it up as an example that people would look ad and decide it is better?"

A real patriot works to make his own country the best. Try it sometime.


rafken profile image

rafken 5 years ago from The worlds my oyster Author

Like you Peter I am older and have lived all over the world, I am also a vet of 23 years service. I do not understand what they think qualifies the US as being the best place to be. In the world lists the US is way down on freedom of the press, education, human rights, health care, foreign aid and equality. Then again though, none of these affect the top 10% so why should they care.


PETER LUMETTA profile image

PETER LUMETTA 5 years ago from KENAI, ALAKSA

Good description of the U.S.A. Chams, I've been around a while longer than you both and have lived all over the world so don't pull that on me. I never espoused the Marxist view you did. I want a balanced and fair system not communism. Anything that is not Red white and blue you consider Marxist, wake up!.


rafken profile image

rafken 5 years ago from The worlds my oyster Author

I think these comments are going in the wrong direction. It isn't or shouldn't be about democrats and republicans. It is about the rich and the poor. I am not talking here of complete socialism but I do believe that when the rich mess up, they should pay for themselves to get back on track. When these rich financiers make mistakes they make it hard enough for everybody else without asking them to bail them out. Certainly they should not get bonuses for NOT performing. They are driven purely by ego, without a single concern for their fellow countrymen. Good hard work deserves rewards but if you don't do the job well, you shouldn't get rewards.


dagda3772 profile image

dagda3772 5 years ago from Washington State

Again Peter your ignorance is showing. Yes, I am unemployed, and a Disabled Vet. No I'm not rich. Yes I know history, and history will show that a government that operates the way you want it will fail. Every government that has ever tried a socialist method has failed or is failing. Perhaps you should read history, or better than read it, learn it.


PETER LUMETTA profile image

PETER LUMETTA 5 years ago from KENAI, ALAKSA

Mr. dagda and Mr. Chams seem to be from the same mould, well bred republicans whith a job. When you lose that job or are sick and incopacitated by illness you may wish that those "crazy" protesters had won a little more fairness for the people with out money. Yes I am well aware that the founding fathers were wealthy for their time and that they also owned slaves. It seems like that part of the republic is coming back. Now we are economic slaves to the masters of the Universe on Wall Street and in the big multinational banks. We gots to thank the massa fo givin us the foods we eat and a place to sleep. WAKE UP! I choose not to live for the purposes that the masters lay down for us. I do not want to redistribute the wealth I just want ot have a fair chance to live a normal life with my family. If you would stop hiding behind your "marxist" condemnations and look at the truth (not FOX News) then you would understand who is being taken advantage of and who is paying all the bills. Instead of free choice we must settle for their crumbs as they let us "eat cake".The violence you speak of is coming from the cops and Mayors not the protesters. If i sprayed you in the face with pepper spray what would you do? Self protection is not violence it is self preservation. But it seems that you both would pull down your pants and bend over for the "Bosses", at their behest. Grow up and get some cahones, these people hate you and your family and would not be adverse to seeing a few of us killed, just to teach us a lesson (and that includes all of you).

Peter


PETER LUMETTA profile image

PETER LUMETTA 5 years ago from KENAI, ALAKSA

Mr. Chams and Mr. Dagda are obviously republicans and well employed. I do not endorse redistribution of wealth, I support the chance to earn and work on a fair basis and not be beholding to the rich overseers. Yes many of the founding fathers were wealthy and they were also slave owners. Should we just accept the the role assigned to us by our wealthy overseers just like the black slaves of the early Republic? I'm sho da massa gonna take good care o'us simple minded po folks. Wake up! The rich could care less about you and yours. In this world of dog eat dog that is what they expect us to survive on, dog. Neither of you have read any history or can appreciate what many wars have been fought over. So go hide behind your Marxist labels and when the man comes to throw you into the street when you lose your job remember who was trying to save it for you.

Peter


dagda3772 profile image

dagda3772 5 years ago from Washington State

Peter, are you so clueless that you don't know how this country was founded? It was founded by rich people. In fact the people running this country are rich. This country will only survive as long as the rich are here. Without the rich, nobody else has anything. You do not represent 99%, you represent such a small amount of people, and and about 99% of all the people I know, and trust me, none of us are rich, are laughing at the stupidity of the OWS wants.


rafken profile image

rafken 5 years ago from The worlds my oyster Author

Dagda - You may be right. OWS may not have the right answers and they may not have 50% support but they certainly have a big enough % to at least be heard. Nobody may have the right answers now but discussions between parties my find them.

Jeff - Thanks for bringing this to our attention, he will probably need all the free publicity he can get.


Jeff Berndt profile image

Jeff Berndt 5 years ago from Southeast Michigan

One congressman, Ted Deutsch (D-FL) has been paying attention. He has proposed a constitutional amendment to remove corporate money from politics. You can read the proposed Amendment here:

http://teddeutch.house.gov/UploadedFiles/DEUTCH_03...


PETER LUMETTA profile image

PETER LUMETTA 5 years ago from KENAI, ALAKSA

Rafken, this time your commenter, JSChams writes the flights of fantasy and you speak stark reality. His fantasy world of the wealthy will cause this great country to vomit up its' vile greed when the whole system fails. They don't want to see the truth for it is too horrible to imagine. We are the 99%, Thanks

Peter


dagda3772 profile image

dagda3772 5 years ago from Washington State

If you truly believe that 50% of Americans support OWS, then you are way off base. I would say they represent maybe and I'd say this a high number of 25%. The Government isn't listening to them, because the Government knows that what the OWS people are wanting will ruin this country, worse than the Democrats are on their own.


rafken profile image

rafken 5 years ago from The worlds my oyster Author

JSChams - It is obvious that you are one of the few. One of those that are blind or ignorant, perhaps even both. Of course the rich cannot find a place that is better, that is the point. A person who is unemployed, threatened with losing his house, a sick wife and children he cannot afford to send to school, ask him, he is still an American. Americans are all those that legally live in the country, not just those who are members of your country club.

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