The Political Spectrum ~~ Serious and Polite Discourse ~~ James Watkins and phdast7

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Political Labels -- Helpful or Terribly Confusing?


Last year I posted a hub about the book, “Under a Cruel Star A Life in Prague” and how I use it in my history courses. James Watkins, a much respected and scholarly writer on HubPages, responded with some interesting commentary. And although he and I agree on many, many things, we do approach some topics quite differently. Because we have nothing but good will for and positive intentions toward each other, I contacted James and he agreed I could make our conversation public. -- Here is the conversation:


James A. Watkins -- "I love your article. It was wonderfully written and delivers a needful and marvelous missive. And you may know that I like you, and I have enjoyed all of your Hubs. But I respectfully ask you to consider another point of view about one section in your article."

James Watkins quoted from the hub "Under a Cruel Star" -- "The instructor should have previously discussed the political spectrum, left/center/right, the characteristics of fascism, the development of National Socialism, and Hitler’s ascension to power. Students need to be able to clearly situate fascism and Nazism on the far right . . . the communist system; after all, it was the antithesis of fascism and capitalism, with their great extremes in status, wealth, and power."

James A. Watkins -- “I submit that placing Fascist Germans on the right of the political spectrum is very successful propaganda promulgated by American and European university professors who were and are 90 percent Leftists themselves.”

You are not the first person to offer such a sweeping assessment of American university professors (I cannot speak for European Universities, as I know nothing about them.) I have spent the last 25 years inside of American universities – 10 years as a student and 15 years as a professor. I have spent time at seven different universities in Georgia; attended 30-35 History conferences all over the United States; listened to well over 100 history paper presentations on the Twentieth Century, and met several hundred History professors from all over America.


NOTE: Below is a simplified political spectrum, often used with students. There are a multiplicity of different, interesting, and useful ways to visualize and graphically display political systems.


FAR LEFT ------------------------- POLITICAL CENTER ----------------------- FAR RIGHT

Communism ----------------------- Moderate Center ------------------------------- Fascism

Stalinist U.S.S.R. ------------ Democrats/Republicans ------------ National Socialism

Source

Political Composition of American Universities


Based on twenty-five years of experience with American Universities and University professors, here is what I have found. Most universities are full of people who vote democrat or republican, 90-95% are moderates, falling somewhere well within the political center.

Very few faculty are on the far right or the far left; there is substantial sociological research and evidence that demonstrates that as professors age (people in general actually) they move toward the political center, which I find very interesting. But that is another article waiting to be written -- why most of us move toward the political center as we age.

Most of them are married (a higher percentage of professors die married to their first and only spouse than is true of the general American population) – have a comparatively low divorce rate, most have children, most attend some sort of mainstream church, most are involved in some local community charity, foundation, or activity.

Are there any radicals or reactionaries on university faculties? Sure, there might be one or two at a college that employs 75 to 100 faculty; there are probably five or six at a university that employs 200 to 300 faculty. You might also occasionally find a black power radical (left) or a reactionary (right) Islamic fundamentalist , but they are few and far between at most universities.

Even more importantly, the radical leftist and the reactionary rightist professors are usually hired as temporary lecturers or instructors; very few presidents or faculty, for that matter, (there are a few and they are always in the news – what a surprise) want to permanently hire someone who will constantly agitate, cause trouble, and make the work environment difficult for everyone.


Political Inclination of American University Faculty


James A. Watkins - "Why? [ Why would anyone place National Socialism on the Right? ] " [ Because ] with the huge stack of Leftist regimes that committed murderous rampages on their own people in the 20th Century, putting the Nazis on the Right is a way to assuage the collective (a word Leftists love) guilt of Leftists, and balance the scales in the minds of the young."


First, I do not find that most convinced leftists feel very guilty, even if they should (and sometimes I really think they should); I often find them to be arrogant, single-minded hard–liners who waste no time or energy on guilt, but then there are quite a few people of the "rightist" persuasion that I would describe in exactly the same terms. Both extremes have amazingly similar personalities. Something to think about, because what they have in common is not their politics, but their rabid and irrational extremism.

I believe you are mistaken or misinformed about the political tendencies of American university professors. They are not hard leftist-communists; in fact very few of them are soft leftist – socialists. The professoriate in Europe may indeed be quite different, I can’t speak to that. But I am quite familiar with the majority of American university faculty.

Assuming I might be correct, then how can we explain the divergence in your convictions about them and my personal experience? ---- Note: California in general, and a handful of other universities do seems to have more than their share of professors who “rant and write.” I ignore them, as so do most Americans.

If they were really rightist or leftist political believers” they wouldn’t be living comfortably and safely in America, which fortunately for them, protects their "right to rant." If they were true believers in the political systems they defend, then they would be writing while living in the fascist or communist country of their choice, which would probably not protect their "right to rant."


Remember the wise old proverb, “The squeaky wheel gets the grease.” Or simply consider what is “newsworthy in America today.” Do our media outlets tell us about the normal, average, healthy, moderate, everyday, perfectly reasonable, speeches, activities, choices, attitudes, and political inclinations of “most people” much less, “most professors?”


Ellis Island
Ellis Island | Source

Commercial Media or News-tainment!!


No, the media in general do not inform us about the normal, average, typical and reasonable, and this should not surprise or shock us, but we should keep it in mind when using the media as a source of information. Their profits are based on the extreme, the inflammatory, the abnormal, the hyper hysterical exaggerated version of almost everything. About 80% of what is selected and promoted as news-worthy does not remotely represent reality. In order to garner market share (which translate into profits for the parent companies) news organizations latch onto and promote the exceptional, the unusual, the non-typical. I am not saying they are evil, but it is what they do.

For example, I have given many presentations, colloquiums, public speeches, etc., on all sorts of historical topics, but not once has the press shown up. However, if a Visiting Professor came to a university in Atlanta to speak on the Kindness of Stalin, the Virtues of Mussolini, the Moderate Politics of Fidel Castro, or the Four Wives of Politician ABC …. you and I both know the reporters would be there and it would hit the newspapers, radio stations, local television networks and maybe even some national media outlets. That speech, that professor would still be the exception and not the rule. He/she would still be the 5-10% not the 90%.

Now there are a few media productions, whose audience is small and they are not as dependent on profits…sometimes we can get the balanced, non–inflammatory, less hysterical story or explanation there, but not very often. The balanced opinion, as you as a scholar know, is to be found by reading a variety of articles and books produced by companies and outlets where there is very little expectation of profit.

Remove the profit motive and journalists, researchers, scholars, and historians are much more likely to produce sensible, balanced works based on extended research, not based on the key interest, anxiety, and hysteria-producing buzz words used by so much of the media. Much of what we hear and see reported by the media has little to do with reality. Ninety percent of university faculty may be moderates, but you will see footage on the nightly news of the "one or two" extremists. Even good news coverage is by definition skewed -- routine, everyday normal behaviors and events are not newsworthy.


Ellis Island
Ellis Island | Source

Oppression, Terror and Murder on the Left and the Right


James A. Watkins -- "After all, if you buy this idea, there were murderers on the Right and on the Left."


Yes, I do buy this very idea exactly as you have laid it out. I am firmly convinced that what we should fear the most is not the left or the right; we should all fear most the political extremists on the left and the right. To examine the previous and current centuries, do any of us really imagine that most of the reactionary Islamicist regimes of the Middle East and South East Asia, belong on the left? Do they claim to be communist? Are they in structure and practice communist?

In many Islamicist regimes, the means of production and profit are controlled by a few private citizens or families, a form of capitalism often practiced by fascist parties, regimes, and governments on the far right of the political spectrum. Many of the Islamacist regimes are veritable engines of terror, abuse, persecution, and murder. So, absolutely, there are murderers to be found on the far right and the far left. There always have been, and sadly it seems as if there may always be.


NOTE: Hopefully, in the future I will have time to address the remainder of Mr. Watkins questions and discuss the "economically based and derived "rationale behind the political spectrum used here to describe modern governments. I welcome the opportunity for a civil, rational, respectful conversation. Such conversations are one of the hallmark's of James Watkins discourse. Many thanks to James for being a participant in the conversation, and to each of you for joining in.


Inside Ellis Island
Inside Ellis Island | Source

More by this Author


Civil Comments Which Address the Issues Are Quite Wecome Personal, Derisive, and Inflammatory Comments Will Be Deleted 64 comments

dragonflyfla profile image

dragonflyfla 4 years ago from South Florida

Such an interesting topic. I personally found the majority of my professors non-ranting on either side. I did get to know a few and therefore discovered their political ideals, but they did not bring it into the classroom. Nor were they allowed to.

But, I do remember having a visiting Art History professor from California who supported communist ideals. How do I know - she said so in class one day that the communist were right and then looked to the class, I guess for approval, no one said a word we all just looked back at her. I guess our looks were strange because she quickly took back her stance and then said something positive about capitialism.

I believe it is the Ivy league colleges such as Harvard and Columbia along with the California colleges, and as you mentioned the news media that is to the left and does all of the ranting.

As for the rest of us, we are starting to look at them as children throwing tantums! :-)


phdast7 profile image

phdast7 4 years ago from Atlanta, Georgia Author

Hello dragonfly - You make an excellent point. I only had one truly "ranting" professor out of all my many undergraduate and graduate professors .and he was ultra-conservative, so who knows. Interesting that your art professor just volunteered that information. No wonder you all just stared at her. I only bring those topics up and discus them when we are covering them historically in the text. I love your final sentence. They often are like children throwing tantrums. :)

I would probably evaluate Talk Radio as 90% conservative/right, NPR as liberal/left, print media/magazines a mix of left and right, television as 70% liberal/left and 30% conservative/right/Fox, etc. I do think there is something out there for everyone, but I think our best bet is to get out news and politics from several different sources and then decide for ourselves. ~~~ Thanks so much for your thoughtful comments. :)


arb profile image

arb 4 years ago from oregon

You already know I have deep feelings in respect to all labels, political, religious, social and cultural. I make every effort to resist classification as I hold their feeble attempts to tell me what I think as an affront to myself and thinking people anywhere. Having prefaced my comment with the root of my antagonism, I agree with your assessment of the media and am inclined to accept your estimate of their particular leaning. I am not sure about our professors and the irony is, even today I do not know the leanings of a single professor I ever had. I am ill concerned about the fringes and leave my hope with those who constitute the core. In my perfect world all intelligent people would defy labels and they would defy any media source which identifies themselves with a label. It is time for all of us to begin thinking again, for ourselves. That means we must begin without influenced propositions, without the scourge of prevalent propaganda constructed for entertainment and learn to pursue honest discourse which comes from our own minds. We have regurgitated fed biases long enough.


WD Curry 111 profile image

WD Curry 111 4 years ago from Space Coast

I hate this hub. I feel like a midget mind after your respective dissertations. Some of my teachers in Art school were subversive. They were always trying to get me to mute my colors and use less blue. One even said, "Curry, this is not a landscape . . . it is a cartoon."

I retorted, "You want everyone to paint just like you. You use too much ocher and purple, and your stuff is too smudgy. It looks like you brushed the canvas with peanut butter and jelly."

I should have kept my mouth shut. I barely passed the class.

I see you got "Quarked" when you went out of edit mode after your

right ..................................... middle ......................................... left line (sorry, I am borderline dyslexic). It was centered on one line in edit mode, right?

Believe it or not, that is due to politics. Wordpress, GoDaddy, Hubpages and the like use license free drupalish, iron curtain programs. They are license free, because the originators abandoned the project when Adobe blew them out of the water over 20 years ago. With the Adobe web stuff, you have total freedom and can fix a typo right there when you see it just by choosing the text tool.

Why are we allowing ourselves to be restricted and forced to spend five or six times the time to lay out an article. Time is money. We must unite . . . set us free!


Frank Atanacio profile image

Frank Atanacio 4 years ago from Shelton

Very interesting topic.. I find today we are all trying to redefine politcal spectrums.. there is the left wing and right wing.. and we seem to be moving away from its geometric axes.. or least one of its geometric axes... I know even though they're opposite, often in popular biaxial spectra the axes are split between cultural issues and economic issues, then you throw in American rights.. which I believe is populist.. I think we must try to figure out what's best to describe political variation.. I think Im going to be interested in your next two installments..thanks for the share PHDAST


WD Curry 111 profile image

WD Curry 111 4 years ago from Space Coast

Oh, that helped. Now I feel even more lame. Where's my dictionary?


phdast7 profile image

phdast7 4 years ago from Atlanta, Georgia Author

Alan ~~ I love it when someone starts a comment by declaring their “root of antagonism.” ? Seriously, I kind of do, because then all the cards are on the table and the conversation is more transparent and more fruitful. It does seem as if labels and groupings, associations are necessary for things to be accomplished, but like you I think being an anti-labelist or label-resistor in principle and in practice, is a noble endeavor.

“…the irony is, even today I do not know the leanings of a single professor I ever had.” That is great! That is exactly as it should be. Your professors instructed you without feeling it necessary to inform you about or persuade to accept their politics. Now, my students know that I am totally opposed to fascism and communism as it currently exists, but aside from that I keep my personal politics close to the vest.

“In my perfect world all intelligent people would defy labels and they would defy any media source which identifies themselves with a label.” I desperately wish we all lived in your perfect world. “honest discourse” Sounds so good I could almost cry. ~~ Theresa


phdast7 profile image

phdast7 4 years ago from Atlanta, Georgia Author

Good afternoon, WD ~~

Just what every writer wants – a comment that begins with “I hate this hub.” lol Actually, I smile every time I see the comment. ? You are hardly a midget! But thanks for so generous a compliment. It’s just a matter of our different fields of study and expertise.

You did have subversive art teachers. :) Subversives are often found in the art, and especially in the theater department. How dare they try to impose “mutism” on you and limit your use of blue! (fiery indignation) Clearly subversives…not sure yet if they were fascists or communists.

I see you got "Quarked" when you went out of edit mode . Yes I did get “quarked” (now I have a name for it). And I went back in four separate times trying to fix it, and no matter what I tried, it kept messing up. At least now I know why, thanks to your explanation. I should have known it was a political thing. :)

:)

“Why are we allowing ourselves to be restricted and forced to spend five or six times the time to lay out an article. Time is money. We must unite . . . set us free!” Time is money, so I am on board! Thank you for a marvelous, funny comment.

Take care.

~~ Theresa


WD Curry 111 profile image

WD Curry 111 4 years ago from Space Coast

Do you see that I ran out of time going back and forth trying to center it on one line and have even spacing? I got quarked, too. Websites . . . I have two words for you Adobe Cloud.


Nellieanna profile image

Nellieanna 4 years ago from TEXAS

In the 4th grade I had a run-in with the art teacher. She insisted that black is the presence of all color (like with crayolas) and white is the absence of all color. (like before the crayolas are applied to a blank piece of paper). My mother had taught me about the color spectrum. I argued with Miss Wright who made an example of me - I still knew that black is the absence of color (light) and white is the presence of all color (light).

A good lesson, really. Questioning verities claimed by experts has continued to be a mindset -- even my own verities need questioning.

Generally my professors were pretty cool - but, then, the type of schools I went to were heavily biased on the fundamentalist religious side, which probably skewed up the results for comparison of professors. Then I went to one of the most social, snobbish Universities (SMU), where it was difficult to take too much to heart for someone like me. My sister groomed me to 'fit in' and I was obedient, externally. I always did my own thinking. Miss Wright may have damaged my debating gene. :-)

Then I did my limited graduate study - one semester - at a very urbane University - Texas in Austin, but it was in Education, - Home Economics, to be exact, so not in the deeply scholastic areas.

I have to say that the professors whose influence stuck with me were the most human, caring and INTERESTING ones, whose feeling for their fields of study were deep and non-political. My interest in history rather developed on my own, later, in reading rather than in lectures. My more probing thinking has always been solitary or with close friends.

So I'm definitely in over my head in this discussion. I admit that I sort of feel 'who cares?' about the left/right stance of professors. But because you wrote this, Theresa, I wanted to read it and I respect it. I also respect James Watkins. I'd just like for teachers and professors to bring their subjects to life for their students without ranting and raving. I detest the propaganda foisted on the public by the media. It's so transparent, one wonders how it's even possible they get by with it.


phdast7 profile image

phdast7 4 years ago from Atlanta, Georgia Author

Now, now, WD - And as my grandmother was fond of saying to all of us children, "Why, you are so unattractive when you pout or whine." :) Although, I highly approve of your call for a dictionary. I think I have one in half of the rooms in my house, I think of dictionaries as fascinating intellectual toys. :)


tillsontitan profile image

tillsontitan 4 years ago from New York

So, I'm reading this very educational and interesting hub with the debate between to great minds (at times scratching my head) and I come to the comments section...WD you wrote what I was thinking, well mostly! Then I read Nellieanna's comment and realized I agreed with that too...so the question for me is, am I influenced by other great minds or is it jus we think alike?

Obviously this is a very successful hub. Not only interesting but extremely thought-provoking leading us to further discussion.

Voted up, useful, and interesting.


phdast7 profile image

phdast7 4 years ago from Atlanta, Georgia Author

Good morning, Frank. The way we evaluate politics has changed a great deal in the past thirty years and you are right, it is very important to be clear about whether one is primarily adressing political )power and rights) issues or economic or cultural/religious. It does get very complicated. For freshmen I keep it very simple, but for juniors and seniors I have a series of overlays and templates so w can begin to deal with how complicated it can get,

I love some of the biaxial spectra or four quadrant approaches I have seen -- just not quite ready to use them with a class of 30 eighteen year-olds. :) I hope the next two installments are interesting -- they will be shaped by the differnces in how James and I understand politics. :) Thank you for your faithful and encouraging comments. :)

BTW, as I am reading I am getting to like Nick, but the priest is really getting on my nerves. :)


phdast7 profile image

phdast7 4 years ago from Atlanta, Georgia Author

WD -- It is incredibly frustrating. I love having a word to decsribe this...quarking!

I doubt it, but I hope HP is listening. Adobe Cloud!


Kathleen Cochran profile image

Kathleen Cochran 4 years ago from Atlanta, Georgia

This is an interesting discussion, and having the benefit of discussing it with Theresa over breakfast, I'm happy to see this hub come to fruition.

I think the saddest thing in education is for a student to complete a college education (a basic BA/BS) and never change their mind about anything. What was the point?

The graph you use in your classes does what it is supposed to do. It makes you consider and question and dig deeper into what these positions really mean instead of settling for the labels we hear brandished about without a second thought.

Thanks, James, for being the Watson to Theresa's Holmes.


billybuc profile image

billybuc 4 years ago from Olympia, WA

Well now I'm upset; there are several new hubs I was not notified of, this being one of them.

I have tried to stay out of the political discussions. I am so tired of the shouting, ranting, raving....every argument is one extreme or the other...where is the common ground? Where is the attempt to modify? Why is it there are only polar opposites?

You did a great job with this hub, Theresa, and it is only my respect for you that led me to read it. I was not disapointed.


rcrumple profile image

rcrumple 4 years ago from Kentucky

Your comments on my hubs brought me here. I was not disappointed.

Instead, surprise is the result. Yet, when contemplation dies, I find that the reasoning is extremely sound.

My expectations would have been for more "radicals" to be present among the ranks of those who teach. Being bombarded by the ideas of the youth served would seem to certainly create an environment of extreme thought. However, in this scenario, sensible thought and logic must be present. A greater sense of eliminating the impossible and evaluating the possible would eliminate emotional factors.

Sensationalism in the press has been around as long as papers have been printed and bills incurred in doing so. How many times have we heard that the only news worth reporting is the news that "sells papers?" The reality of the Profit and Loss Statement almost forces this act. Plus, the general public seeks an escape from reality these days and cares more of gossip than news, for the most part. Huff Post is a prime example.

Tremendous effort and detail presented. My humble compliments!


phdast7 profile image

phdast7 4 years ago from Atlanta, Georgia Author

tilson -- I simply think that you all have great minds and you think alike. Part of the confusion is that there is more to come of James' comments and my response. It also might be helpful to read the original hub that occasioned his comments, but I tried not to assume that people would want to do that. I am glad that it is interesting and thought-provoking, Thanks for your comments and your kind votes. :) Theresa


phdast7 profile image

phdast7 4 years ago from Atlanta, Georgia Author

My goodness Nellieanna -- You are the third person who has mentioned a rough experience with an art teacher…and I think of art teachers as easy-going bohemians, but clearly I am wrong. :) Thank goodness the end result was positive – because I completely agree that “Questioning verities claimed by experts” is an important and necessary life skill.

I understand the “who cares” response about the left/center/right stance of professors and I wouldn’t care either except that assuming 90% of university faculty are leftists, socialists, communists was the evidence for a whole series of statements about fascism and communism that are very problematic.

As the Soviets and then the Nazis turned our world upside down and between them killed over one hundred million people, I think it behooves us to be very clear and concrete about what kind of government and politics they practiced… so we will be vigilant in watching the governments and regimes that rise and fall around us. Maybe Part I will make more sense once I finish part two and three. Thank you so much for reading and commenting. Hope you are having a good weekend. :) Theresa


phdast7 profile image

phdast7 4 years ago from Atlanta, Georgia Author

Good evening, Billy -- I would be upset, too. It is so frustrating when that happens. Its funny, I almost always stay out of the poliitcal discussions for the very same reasons that you do. It is so unfortunate that people just to the left and right of the "moderate " political center carry on as if they are facing down the Nazis or Soviets. Your description is so accurate - polar opposites rant and rave and name call.

Because James is thoughtful and reasonable (and because he asked me to think about what he wrote and reconsider my position) and because I can usually be reasonable, I thought we might be a great example of civil discourse even though we disagree on some major points.

I am glad you were not disappointed. I tried very hard to write sensibly and clearly. Now, I just have to work on parts 2 and 3. :) I hope you are having a wonderful weekend. Tomorrow my three sons, my daughters-in-law and three grandchildren will be her for lunch and. We will have a good time.:) I have found that the quickest way to an 8 year old boy's heart is to light a fire or turn on the gas grill ad "burn" some marshmallows. :) Theresa


John Sarkis profile image

John Sarkis 4 years ago from Los Angeles, CA

Hi Theresa, you're such a smart Lady and it's hubs like these that show just how well rounded you are.

You can't walk into any scenario and when people don't like someone, the first thing they say is "he/she's Hitler." We've heard it all. I don't think other countries have a great deal of hatred towards Americans, but to hear the news you'd think otherwise.

Subsequently, it's like whenever I heard arabs being referred to as "anti-Semites," when arabs are Semites themselves. Additionally, I don't like the word Semite to begin with because, when---not only Hitler---but that word is typically used in conjunction with the word "Aryan."---I'm preaching to the choir because, you hold a degree in history with emphasis on WWII....

Take care and enjoy you Sunday - voted up and away

John


molometer profile image

molometer 4 years ago

Hello Theresa,

Having attended two UK universities as a student and taught in several colleges as a lecturer.

I can vouchsafe your assertion that the vast majority of British lecturers and professors are smack bang in the centre, as far as their political affiliations go.

They have no qualms in standing up to injustice, no matter where it comes from.

They will strike as an act of last resort.

In fact only this year, teachers went on strike for the first time in 14o years.

That has got to be some kind of record.

I liked your comment on the:-

Kindness of Stalin, the Virtues of Mussolini, the Moderate Politics of Fidel Castro, or the Four Wives of Politician ABC …

What a great series of hubs they would make.

Fascinating and interesting read as always Theresa. I await the next installment.

Michael. Tweeted.


phdast7 profile image

phdast7 4 years ago from Atlanta, Georgia Author

Hi Kathleen - Thanks for commenting, and we did discuss this didn't we? :) I have tried to reproduce the graphs I use int he classroom but they don't stay lined up and become a mess, which is why I resorted to the simple one. I am going to have to figure out a way to create the spectrum in Word and then import it. As WD pointed out, it just isn't possible to do it directly into edit mode with HP software. And a big Thank You does go to James. :)


phdast7 profile image

phdast7 4 years ago from Atlanta, Georgia Author

Hello rc -- Glad you came and glad you were not disappointed. One of the reasons I wrote this hub is because, just like you, I find that most people believe university faculty are much more radical than they actually are. And of course I do think a large part of that mis-perception is due to the press. As you aptly pointed out, "sensationalism" is nothing new and we should not be (I am not) surprised. And most of the public is primarily looking to escape the reality of the daily grind.

But we should take everything we read and hear with the appropriate grain of salt lest we make major errors in judgement. My hope is that more people will think critically about what they hear and read. In the hub, I said I could not speak for the British professoriate, however, one of my good English friends left a comment (see below or above - not sure which) indicating that things are really no different there than they are here (and he speaks from much experience inside of British higher education.

I greatly appreciate and prize your two final sentences. My sincere thanks. Theresa


WD Curry 111 profile image

WD Curry 111 4 years ago from Space Coast

Don't blame it on HP. They are just going with the floe (not misspelled). GoDaddy, Facebook, Google, WordPress and on. There might be an explanation around here somewhere. I think "It's time - Where's my Hub Karma". Where might it be?


Nellieanna profile image

Nellieanna 4 years ago from TEXAS

Being a kid during WWII and seeing the RKO Pathe News at the movies (the only animation in that era dealing with news) of the tortured Jews in the concentration camps and later -- the emaciated bodies dumped into long 'grave' pits - instilled sufficient horror of such forms of government in my young mind.

But our enemies were always the rotten scoundrels. - the imperious Japanese, the fascist Italians, and on and on. Oddly, though, there was a sort of naive belief that those were extremes but that all the others - our allies - were somehow divinely benign. So after the war ended and the Soviet Union -- formerly regarded as our ally - stepped in and began to exert a different kind of extremity, before long any thing remotely akin to communism was regarded as totally wrong. Any sort of moderate socialistic practices were regarded as just as totally wrong. Didn't seem there could be any moderation allowed. One had to be 'fer or agin' anything that wasn't endorsed as - well - as US. The right or wrong of that didn't come up much. It was unthinkable to criticize US - almost traitorous; unpatriotic being almost synonymous.

I must admit that I detest labels which seem to cover up more than they reveal. So much propaganda. Yes - taking it with a grain of salt is greatly appropriate, Theresa. I appreciate your sane view.


phdast7 profile image

phdast7 4 years ago from Atlanta, Georgia Author

Hello John - Sorry it has taken me so long to respond . I am in the middle or course and lecture preparation for the Fall semester and horror of horrors - our fall starts August 13th!! Good point...many years ago Semite came to be applied almost exclusively to Jew and I have no idea why. And Aryan is a confusing term for sure, although I think it was Hitler who really popularized it. Hopefully parts 2 and 3 of this series will make sense as well. Thanks for commenting and I hope your week is going well. :)

Theresa


phdast7 profile image

phdast7 4 years ago from Atlanta, Georgia Author

Hi Michael - Thanks so much for confirming what I thought was probably tru, but I didn't want to claim that most British Lecturers and Professors were moderates or Centrists without definite evidence. You are my evidence!! :)

Those topics would make a spectacular lecture series and draw lots of reporters and quite a few nut-cases, I imagine. :) Glad you found the hub fascinating and interesting. I keep trying to get to the next two sections, but the obligations of my job keep getting in the way! I am hurriedly working on course syllabi and writing lectures for a course I am offering for the first time this fall. But they do pay me, so what must be done, must be done. :)

I always laugh when someone ignorantly and, usually, self-righteously states that, "After all, teachers have the whole summer off! The spoiled academics!" Actually sometimes I don't laugh at all...I growl and snarl. Off to watch the women's gymnastics. Fortunately I remembered to record it. :)

Theresa


phdast7 profile image

phdast7 4 years ago from Atlanta, Georgia Author

Nellieanna - I had not thought about the fact that you would have seen the news reels.We do assume that only our enemies stoop to such despicable deeds; it must have been a shock and disillusioning when some of the truth about the Soviets came out. It certainly makes sense that anything "socialist" would strike fear and loathing in the hearts and minds of decent men and women. What has concerned me most I think is the rabid misuse of those terms by the political right and the left in the past ten to twenty years in order to scare voters into joining their respective parties. That I find deceptive, insulting and unconscionable. (Good I don't have strong feelings about this, isn't it. lol ) I try to keep my salt box handy. :) Thanks for a wonderful comment with your own personal hstory added. :) Theresa


suzettenaples profile image

suzettenaples 4 years ago from Taos, NM

Theresa: what an excellent hub and discussion between you and James. I have to say I see the world, politics, the media and American universities very much like you do. Our vision of the world is very similar. I admire and respect James very much, and he is an excellent scholar as you are, too. Thank you for illustrating a civil discussion between two people of opposing visions and beliefs. I feel this needed to be done and this is an excellent example. People can have opposing views but still have respect for one another. Thank you for an enlightening article!


cprice75 profile image

cprice75 4 years ago from USA

Very interesting discussion. I get a bit irritated with people who follow all of the conspiracy theories and then feel the need to plaster them on facebook, even though they have no basis in actual facts. It is easy to find things to criticize the last two presidents without resorting to errors. I would also argue that those who call Obama or Democrats communists have no clue as to what communism is/was. Mildly socialist, maybe. Communist, definitely not.


phdast7 profile image

phdast7 4 years ago from Atlanta, Georgia Author

Thank you suzette. I think we do see the world pretty much the same way and just like with James, if and when we disagree, I am sure it will be in a civil and polite manner. We can discuss the issues without resorting to insults or name calling. Your final sentence sums it up perfectly. Thanks again. :)


phdast7 profile image

phdast7 4 years ago from Atlanta, Georgia Author

Thank you cprice. I appreciate your comments and am glad you found the discussion interesting.

As for your statement, "those who call Obama or Democrats communists have no clue as to what communism is/was. Mildly socialist, maybe. Communist, definitely not." I could not agree with you more. Thanks again.


ThoughtSandwiches profile image

ThoughtSandwiches 4 years ago from Reno, Nevada

Theresa,

I first came upon this disturbing notion that everything that is odious and nasty in the world should be crowded into the "left" side of the political spectrum to appease American right wing sensibilities in (of all places) the Hubsville forums...lol...yeah go figure.

I immediately dismissed the person and his opinions because quite frankly...they were as wrong as wrong can be. I'm even more disturbed that this crazy idea has gained traction with someone I respect (i.e. James). Not to mince words, I will also be forced to dismiss James' opinions (on this particular subject) as wrong as wrong can be.

I have a deep dislike for the practice of altering history so as to make one's political opinion more palatable. When that happens...I call bullshit. Thank you for fighting the good fight my friend. I agree entirely...the danger comes from BOTH extremes of the spectrum.

Thomas


phdast7 profile image

phdast7 4 years ago from Atlanta, Georgia Author

Thomas -

I am actually not surprised that you found a strong anti left bias and the presumption that the political left is the root of all evil (I believe in the New Testament it refers to the "love of money" as the root of all evil - I am always surprised and baffled when conservatives underplay or misrepresent evil.-without really knowing what they are opposing and why - in the forums. I stay out of the forums because I end up very angry or very depressed.

I don't know what to think either when people I otherwise respect locate all wickedness and bad government on the left. It is baffling to say the least. "I have a deep dislike for the practice of altering history so as to make one's political opinion more palatable." I totally agree with you and couldn't have said it more precisely myself.

Thank you for the encouragement and I will try to keep fighting the good fight. Take care. :) ~~ Theresa


Mr. Happy profile image

Mr. Happy 4 years ago from Toronto, Canada

"we should all fear most the political extremists on the left and the right" - Fear nothing. Just be aware and conscious that the more the pendulum swings to one extreme, the more it will swing to the other extreme as well. Hence, going to extremes will keep us in extremes. That is my socialist opinion (lol).

Thank You for the read and for clearing up the terminology surrounding the political spectrum. One of my history teachers taught us that in grade eleven but I see many people who have no clue about any of this ... did they skip all their high-school history courses? (lol)

Cheers!


phdast7 profile image

phdast7 4 years ago from Atlanta, Georgia Author

Good Morning WhiteWolf -- You are right of course, we shouldn't fear anything, but be vigilant and wiling to take action if and when it is needed. I appreciate your "socialist opinion." :)

I don't think the accurate terminology is emphasized very much in school anymore, or maybe students just aren't paying attention (always a possibility). Ans I wonder if people who learned the correct terms become confused over time by the deliberate misuse of so many words by politicians and TV commentators. Sad.

Off to the classroom, hope you are having a great week. Theresa


Don Bobbitt profile image

Don Bobbitt 4 years ago from Ruskin Florida

A great read, phdast7, including the comments. I appreciate yours and James commentaries immensely. Thanks for putting this Hub together for the rest of us.

Don


billd01603 profile image

billd01603 4 years ago from Worcester

Thanks phdast7 Interesting and informative. Voted up and interesting


phdast7 profile image

phdast7 4 years ago from Atlanta, Georgia Author

Thank you Don - The comments were especially good and thoughtful. I was very pleased. You are very welcome, putting this together was a pleasure and a privilege. Thanks for reading and commenting. Take care. ~~Theresa


phdast7 profile image

phdast7 4 years ago from Atlanta, Georgia Author

Good Morning Bill - I am glad you found it interesting and informative. Thanks for commenting and voting.:) Hope you have a wonderful day,


ib radmasters profile image

ib radmasters 3 years ago from Southern California

To make any sense of left or right you have to put both of the following lines in order on a single line.

FAR LEFT ------------------------- POLITICAL CENTER ----------------------- FAR RIGHT

Communism ----------------------- Moderate Center ------------------------------- Fascism

Stalinist U.S.S.R. ------------ Democrats/Republicans ------------ National Socialism


phdast7 profile image

phdast7 3 years ago from Atlanta, Georgia Author

IB - You are correct. I struggled and struggled to get this to line up correctly. I thought I had it right only to see later that it does and doesn't line up properly depending on whether the page size is increased or decreased (probably all sorts of other things mess with it as well). I finally gave up in frustration, hoping that anyone who wanted to read a political hub would have the acumen to realize the glitch and mentally put the terms in their proper places.


ib radmasters profile image

ib radmasters 3 years ago from Southern California

phdast

Maybe if you just put it vertically

left of left --- extreme example is ????

left---- example is ????

left upper ---- example is ????

lower middle---- example is ????

center---- example is ????

upper middle---- example is ????

lower right---- example is ????

right---- example is ????

upper right---- example is ????

right of right ---- extreme example is ????

Then you can follow with the state of the country by time

1776 center??

1860

1865

1900

1913

1928

1929

1935

1937

1941

1942

1946

1952

etc..... whatever the years where the country has taken a turn from where it was before.

I don't know the answers, but I am sure that you and Jim do know the answers.

Where have we been and where are we now, and where are we going.

just a thought.

Thanks


phdast7 profile image

phdast7 3 years ago from Atlanta, Georgia Author

ib - Such a simple solution - vertical instead of horizontal - and I would never have thought about it. Great idea. If and when I have time to pick up where James and I left off, Iwill definitely try doing it that way. When I first started working with all this I was writing it out across a blackboard in a classroom. Very low tech. :) Thank you for the suggestion.


ib radmasters profile image

ib radmasters 3 years ago from Southern California

phdast

You are welcome.

I just had a nonsensical thought about labels, I don't really grasp the left center and right. But seriously, is there a point where if you go farther and farther to the left, would you meet the far far right.

I guess that would be the intersection of two diverse ideologies.

It sounded better before I wrote it down.


phdast7 profile image

phdast7 3 years ago from Atlanta, Georgia Author

ib - Your thinking is right on target. Some academics and political scientists have started using a circle or a horse shoe instead of a straight line. Problem is you ahve to be careful which traits or characteristics you are trying to graph or represent.

For example - purely politically, if you go far enough to the right and left you end up with dictatorships (which is why some people say communism and fascism are the same thing). But if you examine and graph the economic, social, governmental structure deatials of the two systems they are not the same.

Trying to graph the Catholic Church in terms of nations and political ideologies is a lot of fun. The Cardinal, bishops, curia and Pope are unbelievably Conservative (RIGHT)and tend to support very conservative governments and rulers. But all over Latin America and the third world countries of Asia. Catholic priests and lay workers are fighting to establish socialism, if not a nicer version of communism, (LEFT) because they are concerned for the poor common people.

Then there is a Y and X axis model that tries to represent comeofthe confusing variations and nuances that we are talking about. So you end up with a big square divided into four quadrants and one axis represents social issues I think and one represents the purely political. They are absolutely fascinating, but I haven't decided to use them with Freshmen yet. They are pretty easy to find -- just google "political Spectrum" and a variety of models should pop up. See what you think. :)


ib radmasters profile image

ib radmasters 3 years ago from Southern California

phdast

Thanks for the info, and the political spectrum is so colorful, I had no idea about all the representations.


phdast7 profile image

phdast7 3 years ago from Atlanta, Georgia Author

ib - Not a problem and it is incredibly colorful isn't it? You should do a hub about several of thees different ways we try to represent complicated political realities on paper, a two dimensional surface. Maybe start with the simplest and move toward the more complex or nuanced representations. It would make a fascinating and useful hub. I would do it myself, but I can't see the end of the tunnel for all the part way done papers and projects I have.

Seriously, do some more digging and compose an elegant hub about it. :)


ib radmasters profile image

ib radmasters 3 years ago from Southern California

phdast

Tall order, this would be like doing a thesis for a doctorate.I will have to think on this one.


Sooner28 3 years ago

You call him a scholar as he claims evolution is a farce, homosexuals don't deserve equal rights, and Hitler was a man of the left? Ha.

You're a history professor. That's why I followed you. I didn't expect you to claim someone who holds such indefensible views was a "scholar."

If Hitler was a communist, is that why him and Stalin teamed up in World War II, or why he pledged allegiance to communism? Oh wait, that never happened!

Exaltation of the state and a race. Hmmm. Sounds like the America, love it or leave it crowd, and people who cannot comprehend the fact that the United States may not always be moral in its foreign policy. Hitler was extremely nationalist. Communism, the way Marx envisioned it, is NOT.

After reading his hub about liberalism, it barely gets anything right. Scholarly analysis should be accurate! Some kind of weird argument about assuaging guilt and that liberals are antiamerican?

It actually would make NO difference if Hitler was a communist. Liberalism doesn't advocate the extermination of an entire race! I don't mean to come across as mean, but this conversation you posted was terribly disappointing.


phdast7 profile image

phdast7 3 years ago from Atlanta, Georgia Author

Sooner - Thank you for reading this Hub and for taking time to write detailed comments. I will respond to them as best I can.

------You call him a scholar as he claims evolution is a farce, homosexuals don't deserve equal rights, and Hitler was a man of the left? Ha.

A scholar is someone who has amassed substantial knowledge about a subject. James has written some amazingly detailed hubs about religion and American history. He not only does researchm he discloses his sources That makes him a “scholar” to me. That does not mean I think he is right about very thing or that I agree with all his conclusions. I don’t – that was kind of the point of my hub.

------You're a history professor. That's why I followed you. I didn't expect you to claim someone who holds such indefensible views was a "scholar."

In my experience, almost no one, no matter how well-educated is rational and objective all the time. Even the greatest historian and scientists usually have some eccentric beliefs. Even David Irving, the infamous Htler apologist, early in his career wrot two very solid and well-researched books on German history…then he fell off the rails, not sure why.

-------If Hitler was a communist, is that why him and Stalin teamed up in World War II, or why he pledged allegiance to communism? Oh wait, that never happened!

You are preaching to the choir. You don’t have to convince me. I tried to use the hub to show alternative views and interpretations, to encourage people to think a little. I wasn’t subscribing to all of James views.

-------Exaltation of the state and a race. Hmmm. Sounds like the America, love it or leave it crowd, and people who cannot comprehend the fact that the United States may not always be moral in its foreign policy. Hitler was extremely nationalist. Communism, the way Marx envisioned it, is NOT.

I would agree with you about these points. Not exactly sure why you are so offended, upset, disgusted with me.

-------After reading his hub about liberalism, it barely gets anything right. Scholarly analysis should be accurate! Some kind of weird argument about assuaging guilt and that liberals are antiamerican?

I would like analysis to be accurate, too. That is why I went to the trouble to point out what I saw as inaccuracies in his hub, in language that I hoped the average person could understand. BTW, his political perceptions / world-view are more common than you would think. I have a handful of history students who make the same arguments (as James) almost every year.

--------It actually would make NO difference if Hitler was a communist. Liberalism doesn't advocate the extermination of an entire race! I don't mean to come across as mean, but this conversation you posted was terribly disappointing.

I don’t think you are mean, but you do come off as very angry and a bit self-righteous. I am sorry you thought the conversation was terribly disappointing. I am not interested in verbal boxing matches for the sake of sport. Been there, done that, twenty years ago.

I think more progress is made by modeling for others an approach to political debate and scholarly disagreements, that is calm, rational, respectful --- and based on actual evidence and ideas, rather than name calling and fist pounding. I see a lot of that in the Forums and it doesn’t seem to accomplish much.

Maybe you would appreciate some of my other essays based on extensive archival research about Nazi concentration camps. If not, then thanks for the read and I wish you well. Theresa Ast


Sooner28 3 years ago

I don't think any of your hubs are bad. I enjoy your work, and professors of history like you are indispensable to a democratic society. This hub also served the purpose of debunking some common historical misconceptions about World War II among some Americans.

I was just troubled you would use the term "scholar" to refer to someone who was so far off the mark on fundamental issues. Because of your intelligence, that's why I felt disappointed. It would be like me saying Rush Limbaugh was a scholar of conservatism. You'd think I was smoking something. Limbaugh does not deserve the title.

When people make claims that are obviously false, and they make a lot of them, it's hard to take them seriously because they don't really seem like they have a commitment to the truth at all; it's more about reinforcing their feelings on an issue, and feelings for or against something do not constitute an argument. That's the exact opposite of scholarly analysis.

There are plenty of conservatives and libertarians on hubpages that are not in the business of revisionist history or completely misrepresenting the opposing side who I would be more comfortable calling "scholarly," who believe in the Burkian version of conservatism that isn't completely reactionary.

Again, I do apologize for my tone. It was too harsh and self-righteous like you said. I hope I'm clear now.


ahorseback profile image

ahorseback 3 years ago

Theresa , although I have not read them ALL , your hubs have always been the most thorough , complete , unbiased , and nuetrally presented lessens in history that I have read anywhere ! If I were intelligent enough to have been a student of yours ,I would probably amount to something in life ,LOL , however would you consider an apple a day enough to allow me to squeak by your grading system ! I am after all , very charming to be around !.........Ed......Oh and as a final note , I am a firm believer that all "labeling ' is the worst thing any culture practices in political discussion . Yet onwards we all roll huh ! Awesome article [ again ] and you just cant go wrong teaming with James Watkins !


phdast7 profile image

phdast7 3 years ago from Atlanta, Georgia Author

Ed - I think I am going to copy your first sentence and show it to my school dean right before I ask for a raise. :) You have certainly amounted to something, but I will accept an apple a day to ease you on your way to a passing grade. The fact that you are indeed charming is a great help. :) Mislabeling and mis-characterization are so common today and they simply cloud our ability to think and reason. I hope you are having a wonderful weekend. Blessings. Theresa


phdast7 profile image

phdast7 3 years ago from Atlanta, Georgia Author

Sooner - I haven't been ignoring you, just incredibly busy as the end of the college spring semester approaches. We do use the word "scholar" differently, and that's OK as long as we know what the other person means, we can still have meaningful conversations. Some of the people you refer to have large followings and I am always hoping that some of them will pay attention and learn something from ongoing discussions or debates. Although, truthfully, I don't do too many debates, because they are very exhausting when they turn angry and ugly and they often do.

I am pleased to agree with you that there are some solid lib and con inclined moderates on HP who do not confuse terms or use revisionism and they are both a pleasure and instructive to read.....speaking of which a non-reactionary Conservatism is a delight. I think we are both clear and understand each other better now. I look forward to other exchanges. I hope your week is going well. Theresa


Credence2 profile image

Credence2 3 years ago from Florida (Space Coast)

Theresa, I had to look into this article that you have written. J. Watkins is so far to the right that there is nothing left. I learned in political science classes during middle school that fascism is a right wing ideology. Watkins will discredit the preponderance of data out there acknowledging this. It is you and scholars like you that I refer to to get this cleared up. They say that ,ideologically, Communism is a creature of the far left. While fascism is quite real ,Communism is in practice an impossiblility being at odds with human nature. Stalin used the socialist label but he was in fact a fascist. What was it in "Animal Farm"? Some are more equal than others? In the human condition that is always going to be true.

Communism and Libertarianism belong in the same catagory, theoretical concepts that have not been shown to work in practice. I resent the idea from J. Watkins that there is some broad conspiracy from the left where all these 'dupes' are being misled while the reactionaries of our society seem to understand and know the truth. Nonsense. You have the patience of Job, this is one character with whom it would be difficult to have any real discourse, civil or otherwise. Great article, voted up!


Credence2 profile image

Credence2 3 years ago from Florida (Space Coast)

P.S, while I have seen working socialist and capitalist economies, I have yet to see communism and libertarianism operating anywhere in the world under it classic definitions.Fascism and democracy are political systems and it is not to hard to determine which of the two is a creature of the 'right'.

I remember during the cold war how we made distincitions between the strong arm regimes, those that were totalitarian verses those that were authoritarian or fascist. For me they both were the same but the U.S. held the former as particularly dangerous as they eiminated from Marxist Leninist proponents. A despot or dictator is all the same to me whether it is Ferdinand Marcos or Joseph Stalin or Benito Mussolini. What they have in common are rightt wing principles, rule by the few or the one.


phdast7 profile image

phdast7 3 years ago from Atlanta, Georgia Author

Hello Credence - Good to hear from you. I hope things are well with you. When I first read some of James Watkins stuff I was impressed (and still am) with the length and historical detail in some of his historical essays. O course he and I do not usually writ in the same areas or on the same topics. I was surprised when he responded to my essay and I realized that he does put both fascism and communism on the Left. I had not realized the degree of his conservatism before that point.

Like you, both in high school, then college, then in my graduate school training a clear distinction was drawn between communism on the left and fascism on the right, although both can devolve into dictatorial, oppressive, and totalitarian regimes. The primary difference for me lies in the theories which underpin the two systems and their economic and social policies.

I agree with your assessment that "true communism" as originally conceived has never, and probably will never exist. That's why I always stress to my students the vast difference between communism theory (ultra democratic) and the pseudo communist regimes, which are oppressive and decidedly un-democratic. I never really gave much thought to Libertarianism, but I probably should. :) Thanks for your clear elucidations and kind words. Theresa


phdast7 profile image

phdast7 3 years ago from Atlanta, Georgia Author

Credence - You are correct. For all the talk, discussion, and ranting neither of these"systems" is operational anywhere according to the "classic definitions" and accompanying "political theory." A despot of either extreme does indeed take their country to very similar and tragic ends. I guess the distinction that is valuable to me is th "economic underpinning" but that too has blurred with time. I wonder sometimes if the real issue (and why they conflate the two systems) for conservatives is that presumably severe regimes on the right are at least "god-fearing" while regimes of the left are "Godless." (1) One, that really stretches the definition of God-fearing and (2) like you I think what difference does it make if the outcome is the same. Thanks fro the comments. Hope you have a great week. Theresa


Credence2 profile image

Credence2 3 years ago from Florida (Space Coast)

Hi, Theresa, I think that during the Cold War the need to delineate tyrants between authoritarian and totalitarian sorts was done to keep people from thinking too much. For example, why does Castro continue to be demonized after a revolution of over a half a century ago, which may have well been justified as economic exploitation was certainly one big reason why Batista fell back in '59?. Since then we have accomodated despots that make Castro look like a teddy bear. The right likes to confuse and misdirect, for me a tyrant is by definition 'godless' regardless of the label he or she may be wearing. It is much like comparing a green M&M with a blue one, is there really any difference?

Democracy is by its very definition 'progressive', resisting the idea of elites and those that are more equal than the rest of us. Our foreign policy has not adhered to this ideal and was more interesteing in supporting despots as long as they were not Marxist-Leninist and would be willing to subordinate the interests of their people to that of American Multinationals. That is why Castro, defying the system, got into an inordinate amount of trouble.

While I love this country with its diverse and wonderful people, I want America to first recognize its faults as a beginning as to how to come to terms with them. To speak from the left is to abhor hypocrisy and double standards regardless of the direction and the source. What is good for the goose has to be good for the gander. Well, Professor, with all the stimulating conversation, I think that it is time for me to publish another hub. There is no such thing as a "God fearing tyrant" the very statement contradicts itself. It is just as inane as "Christian slave owners". The right is very good at befuddling things and avoiding the fundamental truths. Your observations as made in your points 1 and 2 are correct, that is exactly where I am with all this.

As always, our stimulating discourse is refreshing and upbuilding. I need to follow you on more of your interesting articles.


phdast7 profile image

phdast7 3 years ago from Atlanta, Georgia Author

Credence - I think your assessment of the US distinction between types of tyrants is correct...and then old habits die hard. Seems like they are set in stone sometimes. I like your M&M analogy. :)

I agree with this statement as well. "Democracy is by its very definition 'progressive', resisting the idea of elites and those that are more equal than the rest of us. Our foreign policy has not adhered to this ideal...."

America does need to recognize, and then redress its faults. We have been drifting from our original beliefs and values for way too long now. I will wait happily to read your hub "There is no such thing as a God-fearing Tyrant." It is a contradiction, an oxymoron. Thank you for the kind words and I feel the same way - your hubs are always balanced and fair and your patience with other hubbers deserves a medal in my opinion. Great conversation. :) Have a wonderful week. Theresa


stirringtrouble profile image

stirringtrouble 3 years ago from London, United Kingdom

This is a well balanced hub page and has been a pleasure reading. Your comments further my understanding that you have really grasped the axles of thought on these political matters. I hope to read more of your hubs you are a really good writer, well done.


phdast7 profile image

phdast7 3 years ago from Atlanta, Georgia Author

Thank you stirringtrouble. Engaging in this written conversation and discussion with James was a great and educational experience. Glad you liked it. Have a great week.

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