What A Stark Contrast...

Last night this election should have come into sharp focus for the average American citizen. The Democratic Party, under progressive President Barack Hussein Obama, showed its true colors and the path it wants to lead us all down. Me? I'm not buying it one bit. As a member of the armed forces I labored through many eras from Viet Nam to Desert Storm and I can tell you that I never belonged to the government, nor does our military. It's the other way around.

The very Constitution that I swore to uphold and defend, and still do, begins with the words "We, the People..." and not "We, the Government..." or "They, Themselves..." or any other way they try to rewrite it. I took that oath back when many times and it was a lifetime oath, not a fleeting "if I feel like it" moment. Still haven't figured out what I'm talking about yet?

Here's a short clip with words that should worry anyone of either political party and those in between. I use this particular clip with Clint Eastwood to emphasize the starkness of the way our servants are seen. Or maybe I should say the way they should be both seen and treated. Obviously our Democratic servants see thems not as servants but as rulers. You don't "lead by ruling." At least it has never been that way up until this juncture.

Go Ahead...Make My Day

My theme is what Clint said and Obama fails to understand: "You, We own this country." The whole political climate on Capitol Hill is centered around their egos "thinking" that the very servants we send to the nation's Capitol to do "our" will belongs to them. "We, the People..." own everything in our nation's Capitol down to the cushions they put their lazy butts down on when they bother to go to work. That attitude has so permeated the nation's Capitol, especially the Democratic Party in view of that video clip, that every last pompous ass up there needs to be run out on a rail. Talk like this does not sit well with me.

Being a public servant seems to be a thing of the past. Now it's more kin to becoming a public sleazeball.

We all don't "belong to the government" as we are not subjects, nor are they Kings, Monarchs or Dictators . We are citizens and the government belongs to us. You don''t owe any allegiance to a federal government, it's the other way around. Our Founding Fathers had to be flip flopping like flounders in their graves when they heard the words in that clip. What is interesting is that Team Obama immediately came out denying any part of the video saying the Obama campaign was "unaffiliated" with it. Is what I'm hearing is that neither the Obama campaign nor the DNC had any knowledge of the contents of that video before it was shown? Really?

Ask yourself who serves who? The attitude, and it is plainly seen on display by the typical career politican, is once they are elected they don't want to hear from us again. Why? Because they then know better than we do because we were stupid enough to send them there in the first place. Then we compound their atttiudes by continuing to send them back decade after decade? They lose sight about the concept of being a "public servant." We suddenly have become the "servant and the subject." Something is wrong with that picture and needs to be immediately corrected this election cycle beginning with the firing of the Big Government Guru himself - Barack Huseein Obama.

This sort of theme reaffirms the fact that "You didn't build that. Somebody else did." was not taken out of context at all. Obama believes that the government is the creator of all and the answer to our problems. We all belong to the government? It's the only thing we all belong to? Go back up and read what President Lincoln said about government. Obama likens himself to Lincoln but there really are few, if any, similarities.

We just whistled by $16 trillion of national debt. Now that the citizens of this nation own thanks to the continued efforts of a large federal govenrment to spend our money, money we don't have. Not a word, not even a peep, was heard last night on that convention floor concerning that remarkable Obama achievement. One third of that debt belongs to Obama and he made history by overspending that much in less than four years.

With one sentence the Democratic Party has now stood the US Constitution on its head. All of what they are presently about should now be in sharp focus for the electorate. So you want to be a subject like the colonists were to King George III? You need to be beholdened to the government you see? They create the prosperity that we are experiencing all around us? If you believe that, just how stupid are you?

That one sentence personifies the attitude of too many of the elected officials that park their butts in political careers their whole life. Get this straight. We do not belong to the government. The government belongs to us. Abraham Lincoln had it right. Barack Obama has it wrong as usual.

Yes my fellow Americans, the Democratic Party has been thoroughly hijacked by the Progressives. People keep trying to intertwine the words "progressive" and ";iberal." If you aren't aware of the difference you had better open your eyes.

Lets Close With A Video About "It's Always Someone Else's Fault..."

God bless America. We need it at this point and the Creator of all is not mentioned once in the DNC platform. The word "God" has been stricken from the record.

As Always,

The Frog Prince

Remember In November!

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Comments 196 comments

Cassie Smith profile image

Cassie Smith 4 years ago from U.S.

Hi frog prince, the lapdog media practically drooled over Michelle Obama and found every minority on the floor and included it in their shots, twice! One line that she said that keeps repeating in my head was that Barack didn't care about the money, it was about making a difference. If that were true, the difference he made was for the worse during the four years of his term and he didn't need money since he was spending other people's money.


The Frog Prince profile image

The Frog Prince 4 years ago from Arlington, TX Author

Cassie - I don't think it's about the money with Obama either. It's all about him exercising his, and the progressive's agenda, of having total control of the people. He hid it well, and the Lame Stream Media was totally complicit in 2008, but now it's show and tell time.

I still remember him telling the Russian President that after he is reelected he will have more flexibility. Flexibility to do what should be on every voters mind and not pablum and rhetoric.

He and Moochelle are living large and spending our money doing so in a dismal economic environment.

The Frog


Cassie Smith profile image

Cassie Smith 4 years ago from U.S.

Yeah, that was a telling moment with a hot mic, what kind of flexibility will he be giving Medvedev about our missiles? Is he going to remove them or give out missile and defense information. What bothered me just as much is that the lapdog media didn't dog him about it.


breakfastpop profile image

breakfastpop 4 years ago

Obama has a very dangerous agenda. He is fueled by hatred and the prodding of his past, his wife and Jarrett. he must be defeated. Frankly, at this point anyone who is still going to vote for him is a fool who refuses to see the truth. Either that or they approve of what he is doing to our country. Up and awesome and useful too. Now if only the fools would use it and learn.


Alastar Packer profile image

Alastar Packer 4 years ago from North Carolina

Read with attention and reflection, Frog. Maybe this is out of line and incorrect thinking but the first thing that came to mind on hearing about Mr Eastwood was what favors he owed and to who.


Naomi's banner 4 years ago

Every pray-er in this nation better be on their knees praying for the ousting of this dictator or the next four years could very well be our downfall which is exactly his plan. This man is brilliant in his scheme to destroy America and Americans better wake up!!


The Frog Prince profile image

The Frog Prince 4 years ago from Arlington, TX Author

Alastar - I used this particular clip with Clint to empasize a point. "You, we own this country." All the public lands we own. The government does not. All the resources below the surface of those lands, we own and the government does not. We pay for the government to exist. At least some of us do.

It is becoming more apparent to me that this election will determine maybe the very existence of this nation as we have known it. That seems to be what is at stake. I just heard a clip again about "paying their fair share" on the tube that was uttered ad naseum last night evidently. Every American, and I mean every American, needs to start paying their fair share. If they pay no income tax and work then they need to start writing that check. Got a bit off on a different trail there but I'm sick of hearing about the rich versus the poor.

The Frog


SassySue1963 4 years ago

Great Hub Frog! Hopefully, it reaches some more sensible minds than I've seen in the forums around here They really just do not understand that this election is about whether you want to be ruled by your politicians or whether you want your politicians to serve you as intended. It's downright terrifying the way this President uses Executive Orders to bypass Congress and usurp the power of the people. I am truly afraid for us as a nation if we do not wake up and remove this President from Office.


ib radmasters profile image

ib radmasters 4 years ago from Southern California

Frog

Great Hub.

Outside of the evil of the democrats, and especially Obama, there is a bigger evil, hard to believe, and it is the Electoral College.

The process has no intelligence, but it does ruin the We the People electing the president of the United States.


34th Bomb Group profile image

34th Bomb Group 4 years ago from Western New York State

Your Highness - since when did people on Welfare and Food Stamps become the "Middle Class?"

I thought that label applied to us - those who work and pay taxes which are then used to help the POOR.

A guy who sits on his porch drinking his 40's and watching his stories on our dime is NOT the middle class.


Don 4 years ago

Great post. I watched a small amount of the DNC convention, and had to turn the channel when I could feel my blood pressure rising. Moochelle's line about how her hubby sat there at night in anguish while he read letters from "his people" was especially gut-wrenching. (NOT) In my humble opinion, he probably spends his evenings working on his golf swing, as golfing and campaigning seem to be the highlights of his term in office. In the short time that I did watch, all the I heard was more big government, more spending on social programs. Throw the bum out!!!


SassySue1963 4 years ago

@34th Bomb: There will be no middle class to worry about. It has been shrinking the last three years by leaps and bounds as more and more Americans fall below the poverty line. Soon there will only be the poor and the wealthy. And if Obama wins, after he's done taxing the wealthy to death, there will only be the poor. But the Democrats do not seem to understand that then we will be on the level of a third world nation.


WillStarr profile image

WillStarr 4 years ago from Phoenix, Arizona

One the one hand, we have "We the People", and on the other, we have those who passed Obamacare, knowing full well that "We the People" overwhelmingly opposed it, and still do.

What "We the People" want no longer matters to government. That is what is wrong with America today.

Remember the town hall meetings and all the angry people? They were angry because the politicians stood before them and told them that the politicians knew best, and the people would just have to accept that.


The Frog Prince profile image

The Frog Prince 4 years ago from Arlington, TX Author

Will - I've been to a few townhall meetings and if people would bother to attend some they might actually see some of the attitudes I speak of here.


WillStarr profile image

WillStarr 4 years ago from Phoenix, Arizona

People are angry with Washington because Washington (both parties) have decided that they know best, and look down their noses at 'We the People'.

That cannot stand.


Stu 4 years ago

Like you said, things have been turned on their head. The People created the states, and the states created the union. Most in Washington see this in reverse.

Originally, federalism (the Tenth Amendment) and citizen rights (Amendments 1-9) were intended to preserve the right order of things. The federal government was granted only powers with a material nexus to foreign issues (Article 1, Section 8). The states could optionally regulate any powers not denied to them in the Constitution. And no state or the federal government could deny the natural rights of the People expressed in Articles 1-9 (I say natural rights as these Amendments mirror the same rights treated as God given in the DOI).

Natural rights, plus the right to interposition, place the People at the pinnacle of power (government by the consent of the governed). The states come second in order, because the Constiution, via the Tenth Amendment and Article 1 Section 8, vests all purely domestic rule-making in the hands of the states. The federal government comes last, as the only powers enumerated to it are services related to foreign matters, not purely domestic rule-making capability.

Federal power usurpation has virtually eliminated both the People's natural rights, and the States' exclusive domain over domestic rule-making. To make things worse, the three horizontal branches of government serially steal power from each other, in violation of Articles (1)-(3). The upshot of all this is that anyone in federal government can behave like a tinpot dictator, and many in fact do. We fought a Revolution, and constructed a Constitution, to prevent this very outcome. But we only have a Republic, rather than a substantive monarchy, if everyone obeys the Constitution, including Uncle Sam.

Benjamin Franklin once said that we have a Republic, if we can keep it. And I think it was John Adams who said that liberty lost is lost forever. Franklin was right that keeping liberty is ultimately the responsibility of the People, as nobody will do it for us. But as you said, we keep sending the same traitors back to Washington year after year, blind to what they are doing to us. Sadly, the nature of the People has become such that Adams will probably be proven right, since far too many in the population don't know what's going on, or even care. In the end, a Contitutional Republic is only fit for a well informed and constructionistly demanding citizenry; freedom cannot survive under any other condition.


Pollyannalana profile image

Pollyannalana 4 years ago from US

It really is starting look so hopeless and I think it is because there are so few of us left who are patriotic, who know or even care what America really means! It appalls me to have people not find any offense in being overran with illegals and having our constitution ignored like it means nothing. Did you see the pictures in my last hub? Americans support these people! We have failed to make our feelings known on a wide scale and it may be time to do that. Or it may be too late.


An AYM 4 years ago

I never knew being xenophobic was what it 'really means' to be an American.


TexasLadyJuanita profile image

TexasLadyJuanita 4 years ago from Kemah, TX

I owe my allegiance to the U.S. Flag, and The United States Constitution. I am a child of God, not any government. Jesus is my only King. Nuff said.


The Frog Prince profile image

The Frog Prince 4 years ago from Arlington, TX Author

AYM - Being an American is either by birth or an alternate legal channel. Being a Patriot is by choice and adherence to the founding principles of this nation. That is a choice and not by chance.

The Frog


tammybarnette profile image

tammybarnette 4 years ago

Hi Frog, long time no see. I am always so amazed how completely opposite liberals and conservatives see the same spectacle. I watched the Republican Convention and was very impressed with Ann Romney. as for the rest, not so much. I thought it was telling when Chrisitie said"it doesnt matter how we got here.." and failed to mention New Jerseys 9% unemployment rate. I knew everyone would trash the DNC for not commenting on the economy(yet), however, The Republicans never mentioned any of the wars, nor could they have the last Republican President who reined terror on the middle class as a guest speaker(I don't blame them)

For anyone to believe that Obama is a failure for not fixing the worst economy in his 3.5 years is ludicrous. It took at least 8 years to make the mess, No one could have fixed every problem so quickly, and with the party of "no" running the Congress...I mean, come on now, we the people are smarter than that, aren't we?

Now, let's remember our Founding Fathers, America is supposed to be the place where if you work hard enough you will prevail, you can own land and more as it turns out, and you should be able to worship(or not) as you so wish. This is freedom. Seperation of church and state means that our laws are not biblical laws. I am a Christian, however my christian beliefs have no place in laws to persecute others rights.

Obama wants to grow the middle class the way Clinton did, and it worked. Romney wants to go back to the failed policies of W. But what is far more important to me, Romney and Ryan are hell bent on tearing down women's rights and that is not ok with me. No man, no politician, should be able to tell me what I can do with my body. And women's health concerning birth control should of course be covered by her insurance that she pays out of her check every pay day!!!!

Last but not least, we don't own the government, we are the government, and if people would open their eyes and quit voting for a party and believing bullcrap rhetoric and actually look up the records of those running, then maybe we can save our Country.


The Frog Prince profile image

The Frog Prince 4 years ago from Arlington, TX Author

tammy - A few points about what you said. The DNC won't mention the deficit other than to blame it on Bush. That's so stupid that I can't believe an adult would open their mouth and say that. Obama has added $5.4 trillion in less than 4 years by himself. The Senate has yet to pass a budget and that is a game. That is at our expense. 1/3 of the deficit belongs to Barack Hussein Obama and the Democrats.

I have posted the video many times about Obama fixing the economy. He said he could do so within his first term otherwise he would be a one termer. That is about to happen. Obama has a tendency to let his inexperienced hummingbird ass overload his alligator mouth. The party of "NO" had control of Congress between 2007 and 2011. Don't confuse yourself. In 2010 the American electorate put their foot down. The people spoke and Obama and his party failed to listen.

Obama wants to do what? You are way out there thinking he wants to grow anything but size and scope of the federal government. Last nights agenda confirmed that. The War on Women is class warfare plain and simple. The last time I checked Roe V. Wade was still the law of the land. The whole contraceptive gimmick is BS. No one wants to deny women birth control. The question is that most people want you to pay for that life style. Do you have an issue with paying for your own contraceptives or to have an abortion if you so choose? Sandra Fluke is a prime example of women who want other people to pay, not them. Give the "out of my insurance" a rest.

I'm an Independent and I don't adhere to any party line. I am a Tea Party patriot and believe we need to return to what the founding fathers said and wrote into the US Constitution. People need to stop the party line and start thinking for themselves as being an American.

Nice to see ya dear.

The Frog


FitnezzJim profile image

FitnezzJim 4 years ago from Fredericksburg, Virginia

We need representatives who represent, not career-politicians who regard their congressional seat as a throne.

We also need to do something about that 17th Amendment, so that States can be represented too.


tammybarnette profile image

tammybarnette 4 years ago

Hey Frog, Neither I or Sandra belive Insurance should cover abortion? What planet did that story come from? I simply do not believe in opening the field gates on my rights. I am sure, you being male, have never had to pay for "the pill" but that huge price tag would not fit in the budget of any female working class American. Sure, Paris Hilton will have no problem paying for hers. See this is the point I want so bad for you to see. By taking women's rights and gay rights, what's next? Do you not see that the Republica party has all the money, most of the power? all that is next is all the land!Come on, I know you see this. You are a Christian, right? We are not suppose to judge others, we are not suppose to persecute, nor are we to condone. So the church needs to stand up, this is the Christian fight, not the American fight! And the last time I checked my history we are ALL imigrants.

As a Republican I know you hate the welfare system, so what is your proposal for taking care of the elderly and the poor, or do you believe that is the job of the church? We need not willingly give away our rights and power as Americans!I will always fight for the right of the common man because that is who I am! And I believe who Obama is as well. Mitt Romney has always had! He IS Paris Hilton, don't you see? He is a talking head, pretty boy for the huge powers that be can make and break laws at will.THAT, is the game I see


The Frog Prince profile image

The Frog Prince 4 years ago from Arlington, TX Author

fitnezzjim - The US Senate is the biggest fiasco this nation faces in our nation's Capitol. We need to be able to recall those 2 elected officials as the Founding Father's intent spelled it out. They become too entrenched as career pick pockets and think too highly of themselves.

TFP


The Frog Prince profile image

The Frog Prince 4 years ago from Arlington, TX Author

tammy- Try earth. Any idea what any abortificent is? If you have no clue do some research. Look if a woman, or a man for that matter, want to get laid outside of marriage that is fine. The crap Fluke laid out about thousands of dollars a year is bull shit. Don't even go there since a woman can go to Target or WalMart and for 9 bucks get a months worth. If you want to come and debate I suggest you do a better job at preparation tammy.

I am not a Republican. Nor am I a Democrat. I consider myself to be an American. Obama is a Marxist and a socialist. He isn't a common man. Go see 2016, Obama's America and come back and tell me about it. Research more tammy.

The Frog


tammybarnette profile image

tammybarnette 4 years ago

Hey Frog, Haven't done the research yet, just wanted to say you have proven my point, without insurance, birth control cost about $250 a month, oh and of course you have to see the gyno for that prescription, another cool $300 at least. I AM prepared Frog, prepared to fight for what I believe in, an America without prejudice, a thriving, successful, forward thinking, power house of a country, and that my dear friend IS the vision of our fore faathers, not hate and name calling, rock throwing, childish games. We are on the worrld stage now. Diversity is a good thing. This is not our land Frog, this is God's land, and would he tell us to open the door or slam it shut in others face?

I love you man, I really do, and I respect your passion, we are more alike than different, don't let the powers that be convince you any different:)


TexasLadyJuanita profile image

TexasLadyJuanita 4 years ago from Kemah, TX

Tammy: You can buy generic birth control pills for a 3 month supply for less than a really nice steak dinner out. You can find those birth control pills at Walmart, Kmart, Target, etc. I am laughing my hiney off at anyone who would pay more. Neither me, or my husband, or my children are responsible for your birth control. We are certainly not responsible to pay for abortions for people who are irresponsible. I do not believe in abortion, but I have no desire for you to go to a back-woods doctor for a hatchet job either. The moral dilemma of your abortion is between you and God, and it is not my place to tell you what to do - BUT you do not have the right to force me to pay for it. If you want a true nanny state, there are many countries you can move to that will oblige you. As long as there is breath in my body I will fight for my rights. I am not your Momma, and I have the right to tell you to grow up and take care of your own problems. My generation did not get handouts from the government or our parents. We worked our way through school, or we went to work and skipped college. I had several employers who hired me as middle to upper management over a 45 year career. Up until about 45 years old, my employers offered to pay for my college. I chose not to take my evenings away from my kids. I still had a fabulous career, because I am a talented and responsible person. Everyone does not have to take out loans for a college degree; everyone does not have to get a college degree to have a great life. These types of things are easily handled by responsible adults. It is only the leech mentality that needs for government to take care of them. America must change it's laws to force these people to become responsible adults in all of life's situations.

Those who cannot take care of themselves, have their families, churches - AND if they paid into the system, they should have SS and Med.


tammybarnette profile image

tammybarnette 4 years ago

Im sorry that you clearly misread or just misunderstand? Those generic drugs you speak of are part of insurance plans, I do not take birth control, I am 41 and have had three children and no I do not believe in abortion, I do believe that freedom is to all not just the few who believe as I do. And yesI believe it is your job to pay for birth control every bit as I may have to pay for your heart surgery, it's called insurance and I am a tax paying American citizen and have a great insurance policy, I believe everyone deserves that right,


tammybarnette profile image

tammybarnette 4 years ago

Oh and your creepy little saying at the end about oh the poor have their families and churches, isn't that exactly what the scrooge says in "The Christmas Carol." A greedy miser scrooge uttered those very words.


TexasLadyJuanita profile image

TexasLadyJuanita 4 years ago from Kemah, TX

Tammy: What do you propose when there are more people with needs than there are middle class people to steal from to pay for it all? What do you propose when all the countries that are poor insist we pay for their needs too, because when the whole world is socialist, the UN will call the shots - and there isn't enough money to go around. Those who are doing the paying will stop trying to do well when every person who has more needs than they do have more right to the fruits of their labor. History will just repeat itself - that is when no one gets medical care except those few who are running the show. No one will get birth control, or abortions - those will be luxuries when there is not enough money to pay for them. It has been proven over and over in history. When you, and 310 million people have more right to the fruits of my labor, I will just quit - because when I don't have enough money for my own family, my incentive to work hard is gone . . . . . . oh yeah! They will put chains on me and I will become a slave . . . . . . IF they can find me.


tammybarnette profile image

tammybarnette 4 years ago

Well there we are, see thats where we are different. I do not have entitilement issues, I do not believe myself entitled to anything, all things good are blessings from God. No Obama does not take from the middle, he wants to fairly tax the top and give the tax breaks to a struggling middle class and small business. That is how this country grows. Trickle down is crap, nothing trickles down, jobs are not created, pockets are lined. If we the people do not learn from history that we better by goodness learn to work together and lend a helping hand to our neighbor then we will deserve exactly what we get!


TexasLadyJuanita profile image

TexasLadyJuanita 4 years ago from Kemah, TX

We have 5 kids and 5 grandkids who spent our retirement money. They were our responsibility, so we paid the bills. I worked 60 and 70 hour work weeks my whole life until 3 years ago. I was a single mom until 16 years ago, and I never took welfare of any kind. I paid for insurance from about 20 until now. I am collecting my social security disability, and have an enhanced HMO to my medicare. I would give my eye teeth and be ugly if I could work again. It defined who I was. Everything I did had my mental signature on it - I took pride in my career, and my ability to raise my kids in middle class neighborhoods / schools. People like me don't necessarily live to be 80. So all that money that I paid into SS and Med for 45 years, and it is my due. If the government would pay back the money and interest it stole, and take everyone off that has not paid into it, there would be no SS and Med problems.

Americans have always been generous. I fed half the neighborhood who's parents didn't give a damn. Obama has already done the largest tax hike on the middle class in history. You need to check out your facts before we talk again. While you research look at the taxes that are already in the wings for Obama's re-election for the middle class.


TexasLadyJuanita profile image

TexasLadyJuanita 4 years ago from Kemah, TX

By the way, you didn't answer my questions.


tammybarnette profile image

tammybarnette 4 years ago

We are quite alike. I have been and am now again a stay at home mother. I love working almost as I love giving. I take care of my family, however, I have two girls now in college, a four year old at home and a hard working wonderful husband. We have paid into social security our whole lives as well. I do not believe the government should write me a check because I understand that me paying in is how you are getting ppaid now. I have a nice middle class life now, but not always. I have had help from food stamps and pell grants and am one of the many who used the program effectively. Do not let the Republican rhetoric make you believe that there are all these people doing nothing and taking in big checks that you paid for. Yes there are problems and there needs to be more regulations and time limitations. But as someone who used the system to climb into the middle class, that's how you build a real economy. Help those who need a hand and watch them grow.


TexasLadyJuanita profile image

TexasLadyJuanita 4 years ago from Kemah, TX

I didn't use the system, and I bet I made more money on my reputation / abilities than most you know. My grandparents did not collect any SS or Medicare. My parents paid into them and they received some of theirs back before they passed on. I paid for mine. I am just making the government put mine back.

Whether you want to answer those questions above or not, read your history, I am sure I am right in that is how it always ends - but, the part I didn't put in there is that they will wind up killing millions of people to make it work for them. Sad commentary on life for my grandkids. At 27 I made a deal with myself. I love historical novels. I made this deal, for every 2 enjoyable books I read, I had to read one educational books. I have been soaking up books now for over 30 years, give or take a few bouts with surgeries that left me an invalid for a few months. I learned an awful lot reading books without anyone around to feed me just the liberal ones.


tammybarnette profile image

tammybarnette 4 years ago

I did answer your question. Obama does not take from the middle, He wants the top to pay the percentage you and I do. He wants to give us a break, he wants to grow education programs, he wants all to have health care (oohh that evil rascal)he wants to move America forward. The world has changed as I am sure you have noticed. We are not going to be a competitior in a world where every other nation provides free schooling and we misers refuse to help those not so fortunate the opportunity to climb into the middle class and find good jobs and pay taxes, those taxes will more than compisate the program that gave them teir start.


tammybarnette profile image

tammybarnette 4 years ago

I believe you have misunderstood me again. I am not taking a stab at you about school. I was blessed with that opportunity, and I have no doubt that you are a highly intelligent person. Why do conservatives always think that liberals think we have the corner market on smarts? I just believe that many older conservative Americans vote the party name and do not see that todays Republican party is not the Ronald Reagan Republican party, they wouldn't understand bipartisanship if it slapped them in the face.They have actually derailed the recovery of this beloved country only to ensure the failure of Obama. That is the most heinous of crimes, it is the model of corruption.


TexasLadyJuanita profile image

TexasLadyJuanita 4 years ago from Kemah, TX

I was an accountant, operational and organizational wizard. The people who hired me were either large corporations with a department or regional office that needed fixed from ground up - or middle size businesses who needed to turn their company around. It was so much fun. I assure you they all paid taxes. You can take my word for it. That is always part of the cleanup - getting all those backlog of reports and returns done - and paid - and kept current. Of course they never paid as much as the government estimates because once I changed the operations and accounting and everything was done correctly, they never owed as much as the government "estimated." My husband and I have been paying 35% until this year when he retired. We had to pay taxes on my disability because he - another non degreed company sacred cow who is a genius and loved to work made too much for us not to pay tax on my disability. My husband has worked with his disabilities since before we married. His country trained him to be a surgical technician for 2 tours in Vietnam, and once in country trained in Special Ops. His country didn't give a crap if they dumped agent orange on him and the enemy at the same time. Under Obama the company he worked for laid off 2/3 of the company in February. With my husbands disabilities and age, no one will hire him. Anyway, this upper middle class couple paid 35% taxes. The company my husband worked for paid BIG taxes. Now we are poverty level (below), and we had already sold our home about 7 years ago to pay medical bills (major medical doesn't pay but 80%). We just downsized from a small rent home to a senior apartment. We are just as happy in this little apartment as we were in the big home we owned.

When the hurricane victims came here from New Orleans, we cooked with other family members two dinners for the people at a huge church - hundreds of people. We wanted to do more. We went to the Astrohall to pick up an elderly black woman in a wheel chair to take to our home until her relatives could be found. When we got there, they had just found her relatives. The case worker begged us to take a black woman of 40 years of age. Younger than me. When she got into our Suburban, she actually said, "you my new momma and daddy." We hoped it was a joke. On the drive home, this is what we learned . . . she noticed I was walking with a cane and some difficulty. At this she told me how healthy she was. She had been living in section 8 housing, 3 bedroom home in New Orleans, and she was on a list for a 3 bedroom home in Houston. She lives on food stamps and all sorts of programs i can't even remember now. She also received a SS check, and was on Medicaid. She told me I would have to take off work to take her to all of these 5 places to get her funds transferred to my address temporarily. She had taken the $1,000 that each person in the Astrohall got from our government in the form of a credit card of some sort - anyway, she paid over $200 for her braids, and could not remember what happened to the balance. When we stopped at the store to get lunch items for her, she ran in and bought a case of beer. The next morning I left work and went home about mid-morning. she had already drank half the beer. As charitable as I am, I explained to her why I was taking her back to the Astrohall.

I make no apologies to the crazy people in our government who condone this crap. I am a conservative with libertarian leanings. I am a Bible based Evangelical Christian. I will help anyone who will help themselves, and I have. But I will not play fool to someone who is stealing your money and mine.


TexasLadyJuanita profile image

TexasLadyJuanita 4 years ago from Kemah, TX

No, they have not been in control of the Senate since Bush's 2nd term. There are not enough voters for 3 parties, people like me (and there are a lot of us) are taking our Republican party back. It is taking time, but we will get there by 2016. It is Obama that has put people out of work - when he shut down the drilling, all the secondary businesses went too. My husband worked for a large company that built tanks. He was the resident expert. When you aren't building tanks, you don't much need a highly compensated expert any more. Now he is shutting down the coal industry. You don't do this when the clean energy efforts are only 2% of all the energy made. You build something like clean energy, and when you can get the price down so the company won't tank, then you bring clean energy up at the same rate as you bring the oil and coal down. Common Sense dictates most of this stuff. I cannot tell you what has happened to people. I used to love hiring and training and growing businesses . . . the last ten years I worked it was awful - people want to get paid for doing almost nothing - and out of college they want the big job, with the big office, and the big pay, and they don't even understand how things work yet - useless idiots. Oh well, I need to stop. My hands hurt. Nighty night.


poetvix profile image

poetvix 4 years ago from Gone from Texas but still in the south. Surrounded by God's country.

I don't get it. Every time they open their mouths they show more and more how the idea of any human being free is in direct opposition to their system of beliefs. Ironic is it not that the very division they use to pit us against each other springs from the idea that all people should be free. We all know our nation's history with slavery. I don't get how people are not seeing that that self same desire to be free that once divided this great nation is doing so again and this time the left leaders are the south and want to enslave us all, everyone, black, white, or rainbow plaid.

The only thing I don't totally agree with here is your statement that liberal is progressive. I'm leaning towards what you are calling progressive actually being closer to fascist. Just my thought.

You have outdone yourself, Sir Frog. Bravo!


tammybarnette profile image

tammybarnette 4 years ago

Texas, You both sound like amazing people who have lived the American dream, followed all the rules, and have been caught in th crux of the economic downturn and now there must be a restructure. You will be taken care of under Obama, you will not under Romney, thats just the facts. I'm sorry if I have upset you, you sound like my mother, 60 year old hard core Republican most of her life, until now. She knows her daughter would not mislead her. I have seen the trash of which you mention, trying to live off the government. There has always been and will always be those people, it should not dismantel an entire program that works for so many who just need a hand. My mom has arthritis in her hands, really bad, so if you have this or if you are just tired, I have never meant to make you upset, I hear you, I understand why you believe what you believe. I just want to show you the world is different now and so are the parties. Obama leans middle, the Republicans are so far right there gonna fall off the cliff. It has been a pleasure making your aquaintance:) night night


Angela Blair profile image

Angela Blair 4 years ago from Central Texas

Frog--right on target again-- "the government by the people and for the people" is now but a memory -- and we must retrieve it soon or all is lost. Thanks for another super Hub that speaks for so many of us. Best/Sis


WillStarr profile image

WillStarr 4 years ago from Phoenix, Arizona

"You will be taken care of under Obama, you will not under Romney, thats just the facts."

"Taken care of"? Is that what we have become? A bunch of incapable leeches looking to government for our sustenance? The rugged American individual has become dependent on the likes of Barack Obama? He's now our 'daddy'?

"Taken care of" Are you kidding me? Excuse me while I go vomit!

I worked with welfare queens (of both sexes) for nearly two years, and I'm here to tell you that most are lazy, good for nothing, milk-the-system-pros who are laughing at the hard-working Americans who pay their way! They laugh even harder at those dim-witted, do-gooders who support their lazy butts. They are exactly like the woman TexasLadyJuanita described.

BTW, only those on the far left view Obama as 'middle of the road', so if you do, guess where you are.


The Frog Prince profile image

The Frog Prince 4 years ago from Arlington, TX Author

Will - When people/users come onto a Hub and make statements like those you outlined I know they are usually so far out there that I'm not going to debate too much with them. I don't need either Obama or Romney to "take care of me." That's the attitude of the "free lunch" crowd that has gotten us into this mess with pandering politicians more than happy to cater to their freebies rather than say no. We can't afford what this federal bureacracy demands from the people who actually pay income taxes to scratch other people's laziness bone.

The "Obama is in the middle comment" I won't even bother to qualify since he is a far left progressive. There is a difference betwen being a liberal and being a progressive. Progressives are centered in socialism/Marxism where the government is the answer. It isn't and never will be.

Take note of the speeches flying around the DNC about the government being everybody's Nanny.

The Frog


tammybarnette profile image

tammybarnette 4 years ago

Will, I like the way you and your party like to take things out of context. She is clearly an older retired woman who mentioned higher up in the comments about her medicare,etc. With President Obama she can be sure she will recieve her earned benifits! With Romney, she will not. It's a sad day when you have to spell things out to adults who have nothing to offer but opposition!


tammybarnette profile image

tammybarnette 4 years ago

Frog, I actually came to your hub because in the past I knew whatever our disagreements politically you were honorable. I could be demeaning towards you and your comments, but that is clearly not my style. You are supporting a talking head for a party who no longer represents anyone but the rich. Bill Clinton said it best, check the arithmatic. We need cuts in spending AND we need revenues which will first come from taxing the billionaires as the rest of us and then by the growth of the middle class. There isn't anything nanny state about that!


An AYM 4 years ago

Wow that's a lot of comments so this is a minor blip... but in my earlier comment I was referring to the commenter above me, not your Hub, Frog Prince.


tammybarnette profile image

tammybarnette 4 years ago

Frog, United we stand divided we fall does not mean socialism! It means everyone does there part, and I hate to tell you but helping the less fortunate become hard working tax paying citizens is not being a nanny, it's called being a socially responsible human being and a cohesive government of peoples that work hard to achieve an America inwhich we can all be proud.


The Frog Prince profile image

The Frog Prince 4 years ago from Arlington, TX Author

tammy - I am a Tea Party patriot and have no party affiliation. What I stand for is the opposite of what Obama stands for fiscally, morally and Constitutionally. I have watched Obama disregard and continue to shred the US Constitution since assuming office. I've had enough of his socialistic crap and we need to change it back to sanity, or even a semblance of sanity.

Bill Clinton was kept in check by a Republican Congress. While you're doing aritmetic also study history. Clinton is a sleaze ball and a legend in his own mind. He's pure politician and nothing more. He had to move to the center because of the 1994 elections. Otherwise he would have run us off the cliff where he was heading. History is such a magnificent thing unless a Democrat is trying to rewrite it. Clinton despises Obama BTW.

Go and see 2016, Obama's Ameica and then come back with an honest assessment of what Obama is all about. Many people are seeing the movie and so should you.

AYM - It's all good. You might want to be a bit more specific as you debate.


tammybarnette profile image

tammybarnette 4 years ago

Frog, I don't need a movie to help me make up my mind. In fact I try hard not to listen to any rhetoric from either side. To me this is simple math and simple economics. Mitt Romney wants to return to the policies of W, we seen what happened there, Obama wants to use a similar model as that of Clinton and we seen what happened there, ya know, balanced budgets and surpluses.During that time the wealthy had to pay their share, bless there hearts, and yes their was a republican congress who knew how to act bipartisan for the sake of our country, not a ridiculous shell of a congress that just says no, no, no, but offers no ideas and flat refuses th raise their own taxes even if it means destroying the middle class.


WillStarr profile image

WillStarr 4 years ago from Phoenix, Arizona

" With President Obama she can be sure she will recieve her earned benifits! With Romney, she will not."

On the contrary. Under Obamacare, the elderly will receive the treatments authorized by an unelected panel based on projected cost/benefit analysis. Today, we get what we pay for, regardless of age, unless we are just too weak or about to die anyway.

Under Obamacare, you will not get that knee replacement if some panel you have never met decides that it is not cost-effective. As Obama once famously said, you will just get a pain pill.

Obama stole $700+ billion in payroll deduction finances from Medicare to pay for Obamacare. No matter how they try to spin it, that is a fact! One of them is lying, and it's not Ryan!

Look at all the times Obama has lied to you and how many times he has been caught lying. why do you believe him now?

It is not conservatives who are being fooled. It is you.


The Frog Prince profile image

The Frog Prince 4 years ago from Arlington, TX Author

tammy - The movie is based upon the actual history, most often in Obama's own words, about the marxist/socialist you so idolize. The research was done by an Indian immigrant who became a US citizen legally. Helluva a note that our own home made press ignores his past history and asociations. If you want to vote for a scumbag like Obama have at it. But I would suggest you do some actual researching and listening first this time. He fooled you once evidently.

I was writing in 2008 and was digging up the information on Obama. The progressives would scream, "You lie, you lie..." So I'd give them very specific links and I know damned well they didn't read the truth. When the truth doesn't fit many people's picture frame they deny it rather than do the leg work and reading to verify what is there.

In the case of the 2016 movie I had found out the same things Dinesh researched back in 2008. I didn't need confirmation but to say a documentary of truth won't change your mind says something about your mind.

Clinton's model was the Republican Congress's boot kicking him in the ass. Study history and stop listening to so much MSNBC.

The Frog


tammybarnette profile image

tammybarnette 4 years ago

Will, everything you just said is rhetoric, half truths, and plain old lies, Clinton explained the whole $700bill last night, look it up, or just look it up yourself. My lord you are brain washed my friend, what's next, they gonna have you digging your own grave andthrow you in with a big stupid smile on your face. Quit listening to the lies, quit listening to the spin, look up the records.


The Frog Prince profile image

The Frog Prince 4 years ago from Arlington, TX Author

tammy - Yeah and Clinton never tells lies like his buddy Obama huh? It's probably best if you run along tammy. Accusing people of what you obviously are - brain washed - isn't necessary. The majority of the people who have commented here have studied history - real history. Many of us lived through the decades you want to try to talk about as adults, not children. When you live through these eras then you understand them. Seeing is believing.

I recommend you study history tammy before you open your mouth any further. I recommend you watch the documentary called 2016, Obama's America. You claim you have children. For their sake go and watch the truth.

The Frog


WillStarr profile image

WillStarr 4 years ago from Phoenix, Arizona

Tammy,

Why do you assume that Obama is telling the truth and Romney/Ryan are lying? Based on what? Obama's rhetoric?

And why do you assume that only you know the truth? Why do you assume that only you are bright enough to understand?

Why do you assume that others are brainwashed when you say things like this:

First you say:

"In fact I try hard not to listen to any rhetoric from either side."

But then you say:

"Mitt Romney wants to return to the policies of W..."

That my dear, is pure Obama rhetoric!

BTW, anyone who blames Bush for the recession simply does not know what happened. The recession is the direct result of Democrat meddling in the housing market with Freddie, Fannie, and the CRA. Remember that? Bush tried to head off the disaster, but the Democrats won, and we all know what happened then.

And that is not rhetoric. That is a fact! :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UIjoW_IXos4


SassySue1963 4 years ago

@tammy In an ABC interview, Obama talks directly about the $700 billion. No it is not exactly raiding Medicare. It is proposed savings, but he is lying flat out about that $700 billion. On the one hand, he is trying to tell you that it is a deficit reduction. However, on the other, any proposed savings is going directly to fund ObamaCare. Where I come from that is counting that money twice. He is leading you to believe it will be there as some sort of safety net to save Medicare for eight years. That is just an outright lie. Further, do you really believe that cutting payments to providers will have no effect on seniors? Especially since most hospitals and doctors claim that Medicare payments already do not even cover costs? They are not forced to take on Medicare patients and they will simply stop doing so. 15% of hospitals will close down. This is what the GOP is speaking of when they talk about reduced care for seniors. You really should read up on the subject and get the entire truth, not just what is handed to you by the left.


WillStarr profile image

WillStarr 4 years ago from Phoenix, Arizona

As you can see Tammy, people are actually looking this stuff up and not relying on a politician's word.

What Sassy Sue is telling you is true, and as an account, you of all people should know how easy it is to like with statistics.

Or is that what you are doing?


The Frog Prince profile image

The Frog Prince 4 years ago from Arlington, TX Author

Sassy - That $716 billion is coming from somewhere . It's called Medicare. Clinton, Obama or Bozo the Clown can try to do the smoke and mirrors routine but $716 billion is being raided out of Medicare to finance Obamacare. Obamacare is even more unpopular now than it was when he rammed it down the public's throat. Now to try to scare seniors the lies are running rampant. Anyone 55 or over right now will not be affected but the system needs reforming or it won't be there for future generations. That's a fact and every one of those bone headed politicians know that to be the truth.

So you desire to deny the truth too? Is that what we're hearing tammy?

Will - Clinton, Dodd, Frank & Geithner crafted the future housing bubble burst. Seems they want to deny that history also or maybe just ignore it.

The Frog


tammybarnette profile image

tammybarnette 4 years ago

To all, I am not hear to hurt your feelings, not hear to say your stupid, I am trying to be a light in the dark. I do not hate Mitt Romney, I don't have to say he is a liar I have seen the footage of how he votes this way then that, whichever way he is told. He is not a leader, he has been wealthy his whole life, the struggles he understands are family health struggles. The $700 bill does not tke from one to feed another, Obama is a master of cutting the fat. I believe that giving the highest office in the land to a talking head is a very scary thought. I believe having these extremist telling me what is allowed in my health plan is an abomination of my rights as a American citizen. I believe in Human rights and I don't think telling people they have to act and think like you or I is freedom.If any of you have never read 1984, please do, and please watch the animated film the Lorax before you vote. think as a human, not as a conservative or whatever, just think like a human. Do you want the rulers of our land to be the I have mine and now I'm rich so I can take more and more, good luck getting yours, or would you like someone who has built his own wealth and wants to share with you how you can too. Greed will be the downfall of this country if people do not wake up and see where we are in time and in the world economy.


The Frog Prince profile image

The Frog Prince 4 years ago from Arlington, TX Author

tammy - Master at what? For Christ sake he has added over $5.4 trillion to the national deficit in less than 4 years. If that is being a master I'm a woman. I can assure you that I am not. He spent close to a trillion dollars on a stimulus that was a rewards for campaign donors program if it amounted to anything.

The light you speak of needs to come on.

Unemployment/underemployment sits above 8% and has been there since he passed that waste of our money. That is about 23 million Americans who are suffering the effects of Obama's lack of knowledge of economics. He brought in Keynesian economists for pete's sake. The same thing Jimmie Carter did. It works well with socialism until you run out of other people's money as Europe is finding out. Obama is a failure or what he has undertaken is intentional.

Average income for American households has dropped $4,300 a year. How much more do you want it to drop?

Get a grip on your light remarks because you're mainly dealing with intelligent, highly educated people when you come onto my Hubs. I thoroughly research everything before I hit this keyboard.

Understand that tammy. I've been writing political commentary for years on end.

The Frog


tammybarnette profile image

tammybarnette 4 years ago

Frog, I'm so tired of repeating myself, the congress would not do it's job! point blank, revenues must be raised and it can't all come from cuts like the austerity measures over the sea, do we see how well that has worked. Wow, I'm just so tired of people repeating what they see on Fox news instead of looking around. I do not believe Obama is perfect, but see I know that nobody is perfect. I know and so do you the economy he inherited, he had a congress of no, and he still created jobs and saved the auto industry, yes that is a masterful work.


WillStarr profile image

WillStarr 4 years ago from Phoenix, Arizona

"I believe in Human rights and I don't think telling people they have to act and think like you or I is freedom."

Then you should be opposed to Obamacare, because the majority of Americans despise it and don't want it, but Obama is shoving it down our throats anyway, and we will all have to obey it.

That is the opposite of the freedom you claim to support.


tammybarnette profile image

tammybarnette 4 years ago

Will, I don't know what stories you have heard of how Obamacare has hurt anyone, not rhetoric, real stories, like the one told by the family on the first night of the DNC, the little girl who would have used her lifetime limit of surgeries covered by insurance when she was only 6 months old, well not now because Obama removed that cap. And see, basic economics supply and demand, insurance companies will be flooded with new accounts, soooo, cost come down, see basic economics. If you have a real story about a real person who has been hurt by obamacare, please share


34th Bomb Group profile image

34th Bomb Group 4 years ago from Western New York State

Hear, hear...


SassySue1963 4 years ago

@tammy Insurance companies will not be flooded with new accounts because the Law does not address costs. Those who cannot afford it, still cannot afford it. The new accounts you speak of and removing all caps only drives the cost up because the base which costs are figured by now is higher risk. Higher risk is higher payouts by insurance companies. That is why private insurance premiums have RISEN with even just a partial implementation of the Law. The penalties, taxes and fees for businesses and individuals have not been implemented yet, that does not happen until 2014, so expect even higher premiums and people who are caught in the middle being the ones paying that mandate tax. I keep asking of the left and get no response, but perhaps you will enlighten me. Who do you think is going to wind up paying that insane tax? It will not be the poor because they have Medicaid. It will not be the rich because they can afford and have insurance. Please tell me how this is not a tax on the middle class for not buying something they cannot afford. You keep denying the $716 billion exists, so where do YOU think the money to implement this Law is coming from? You do realize that the wealthy already pay 70% of all Federal taxes. How much do you expect them to pay? What is their "fair share" to you? These are questions I keep asking of those who support this Law. To date, absolutely no one will answer.


WillStarr profile image

WillStarr 4 years ago from Phoenix, Arizona

"Will, I don't know what stories you have heard of how Obamacare has hurt anyone..."

A straw man. That was not the argument:

"I believe in Human rights and I don't think telling people they have to act and think like you or I is freedom."

"Then you should be opposed to Obamacare, because the majority of Americans despise it and don't want it, but Obama is shoving it down our throats anyway, and we will all have to obey it.

That is the opposite of the freedom you claim to support."

We have had Obamacare shoved down out throats, and the majority of Americans want it repealed, but Obama won't hear of it, because that's his personal legacy.

You call that freedom? Don't dodge the question, please!


The Frog Prince profile image

The Frog Prince 4 years ago from Arlington, TX Author

I don't repeat what I hear on Fox News tammy. Stop with the ignorant statements. If I hear anything on any news channel I am perfectly capable of fact checking what is said. I have impeccable sources which I receive on a daily basis. I fact check those too. Your fact checking seems to be what the idiots of the nation are fed on MSNBC. I call it pablum and it has no news value at all.

As many people can tell you I can write about something before even Fox can utter a word about it. It's called having reliable sources and that doesn't include the Lame Stream Media.

Try researching your subjects away from the television tammy.

Sassy - The joke is on the young people who voted for Obama when it comes to the tax for not having insurance. Most of them don't need it but will pay for it one way or the other thanks to Oblabber Mouth's socialized medicine plan.

The Frog


tammybarnette profile image

tammybarnette 4 years ago

Will, it is you who have dodged the question. Who do you know that has been hurt by Obamacare? Is that crickets I hear? And to be clear, yes everyone in my beloved country having the opportunity to have health care does mean freedom to me.


WillStarr profile image

WillStarr 4 years ago from Phoenix, Arizona

"And to be clear, yes everyone in my beloved country having the opportunity to have health care does mean freedom to me."

And that too is a straw man.

Obamacare is being forced upon Americans by a tyrant who does not care that the majority of Americans want it repealed, and you very well know it!

That is the exact opposite of freedom, and you very well know that too.

You are deliberately dodging this because you cannot defend forcing Americans to participate in Obamacare whether they want to or not, and the majority do not!

So you dodge, squirm, and attempt to deceive.

Got it.


The Frog Prince profile image

The Frog Prince 4 years ago from Arlington, TX Author

tammy - Since it is now estimated that the cost of Obamacare is three times what Obama claimed it would be, you tell us who is going to be hurt by Obamacare. Do the math tammy. Now I have another question for you. Are you one of the 50% of working people who don't pay a dime in income tax and still want what those of us who do pay benefit from, if there is any benefit?

Isn't Obama Mr. Thrifty? LMBO I can't believe you wrote that nonsense.

The Frog


tammybarnette profile image

tammybarnette 4 years ago

Sassy, as I am sure you know that is the exact figure used in the Ryan plan. Obama finds broken parts of programs and overpayment sources and reworks them to be utilized efficiently. Cost will be assessed on a sliding scale, the same way he intends to work the pay back on student loan programs. I expect the wealthy to pay the same percentage as I or you do, I actually believe in a flat tax, but I don't believe that the middle should pay 35% while the top pays from 0-16% do you? And why does everyone whine about taxes anyway, we have a beautiful country that is not littered in trash like say India. Why do you think the wealthiest of Americans deserve all the same luxuries and soooo many more but shouldn't have to pay the same percentage of taxes as the middle? It's just upside down thinking to me.

Frog, I am not saying you aren't an intelligent person, but you seem to talk in sound bytes. I do not follow any of those news channels, I do occassionally catch CNN, but for the most part I like PBS, I love watching the BBC news, its a refreshing change of perspective. What I believe, I research, and you know as well as I do that I can find a site to agree with anything, including that the aliens are coming in December. I talk from the heart, I believe from my gut, and Bill Clinton was the first President I ever voted for and you can spin his success however you wish, but those were good times.


The Frog Prince profile image

The Frog Prince 4 years ago from Arlington, TX Author

tammy - That exact figure came right out of the bill and was cited by the CBO. Do you have any idea what is in the bill? Paul Ryan does and has forgotten more about economics than Obama has ever known. Have you read all 2,700 pages of Obamacare. Or are you just relying on Democratic talking points which are usually off the mark?

I don't write in sound bites now do I tammy. I write factually and if you don't believe it then FACT CHECK me. Then link me to what you find incorrect. Easy as pie. What I keep reading from your diatribes are left wing talking points. Where does your information come from?

I voted long before Clinton and I didn't vote for Clinton because he was a known lying, cheating sleaze bag before he was elected the first time. His Presidency was the beginning of the decline of the moral fiber in our society. Clinton was forced to the center. That's a matter of history tammy. Don't ignore history and for your kids sake go and see the documentary I recommended when it comes your way. It's an eye opener for anyone.

The Frog


tammybarnette profile image

tammybarnette 4 years ago

Haha frog you off your rocker here man, Ryan is a child and Obama is a man who actually knows what hard work means. You voted long before me because clearly you are older than I am, I watched him grow a booming economy and watched W tear it apart with this upside trickle down crap! Anything in nature grows from the ground up and man you got to be severly brain washed to believe any different.

Will, Where are those 50% who disagree, did you pull this out of a poll somewhere, don't you think if half of Americans were against this their may be some marching in the streets, like the 99%movement. No dodging my friend, you are dodging and repeating, learned it well from your party line! Who, Will, Who is hurting because of Obamacare?Not me, are you?


The Frog Prince profile image

The Frog Prince 4 years ago from Arlington, TX Author

tammy - Obama has never had a job in his life in the private sector. Paul Ryan made Obama look like the dummy he is in the healthcare summit back when. Obama admits he knows nothing about economics. Ryan sits on the committee, and now chairs it, that deals with what Obama hasn't a clue about. Again where does that dim light bulb stuff come from that you try to pass off as factual? The real sad part of dealing with you is that yuou believe that left wing garbage you keep spitting out. Polls are easy to check tammy. Just Goggle "Obamacare polls" and take your pick.

Here's one link tammy. There are many more: http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/obam...

The Frog


SassySue1963 4 years ago

@tammy Sorry, you are incorrect. The original Ryan plan did reference the $716 billion. The new plan does not. There are two plans the Democrats continually lug out the old one to try to back up their talking points. Fail.

You ignored every one of my questions. There is no sliding scale. You should perhaps actually read the Law as I have done. It is a difficult thing to be sure, and time consuming but much better than relying on the lies you are being fed. Perhaps you are speaking of the tax credits? What good does a year end tax credit do if one cannot afford the monthly pay out? None. "broken programs" Oh so you admit that Medicare is broken and needs to be reformed, not just putting off its death for eight years like Obama is trying to do. If it is not Medicare, what broken programs are you referring to Tammy? You'll have to excuse me because the ONLY cut in Obama's proposed budget is to the defense of our country. You should read that document as well. It has massive increases in spending, which is why Congress rejected it, with a few votes by Democrats I might add, not just the GOP.


WillStarr profile image

WillStarr 4 years ago from Phoenix, Arizona

I don't make things up, Tammy:

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/pol...

Like the others who are discussing this with you, I look up the facts rather than quote some politician.

I know you don't think you are, but you are just regurgitating the latest Democrat talking points. Turn off MSNBC, and start looking around.


The Frog Prince profile image

The Frog Prince 4 years ago from Arlington, TX Author

sassy - I can always tell when a person hasn't read the actual law. It takes quite a bit of time and patience. All our entitlement programs need to be reformed. We're broke and the Demwits want to continue spending like a drunken sailor on shore leave. Their answer is tax the rich. My answer is tax EVERYBODY, including the 50% who pay no income tax. Fairness? That's exactly the ticket to fairness. Cut spending to the bone and balance the budget just like the American households are having to do to survive. Easy concept and painful but we do and so can all of us.

Will - It took about 5 seconds to go and Google what I told tammy to Google. It takes a lot longer to then read the polls. The public dislikes Obamacare. It is an intrusion, an unnecessary one, into our personal life where the federal government has no business being.

The Frog


SassySue1963 4 years ago

@Frog

It was horrible! I'll admit it. I hated every second of it. It isn't just reading the Law either but the way it is broken down you have to keep going back to this section and that one to understand the references. Then there was the Amendment to the original law that scratched this part and replaced it with something else. Having them both open and jumping back and forth. Ugh.


TexasLadyJuanita profile image

TexasLadyJuanita 4 years ago from Kemah, TX

Well, I tried to read everything here since I signed off last night, but my eyesight is already gone to blurry about noon today. To they guy asking about my hands - rotten luck, Rheumatoid Arthritis verified when both knees replaced on same day. Osteo also, fibro also, degenerative spine disease. Major back surgeries. My doctor's say I am amazing -

Tammy- if Obama is elected they will kill me - my husband, children, and grandchildren will be in shock when it happens. READ Obamacare - they will kill me. I don't mind dying so much - I do mind someone killing me because some administrator thinks my life has no value.

While being uber productive all those years, I would get all the requests for information for mortgage companies. I processed facts to them, and they still gave home loans to those who clearly could not afford to pay the mortgage payments. The government forced the lending institutions by blackmail to make those loans. I also was asked repeatedly by black and hispanic employees to stop paying them on paper - but keep paying them - just stop doing it on paper so they could get one of the loans for poor people. Of course, I never did such a thing, but you would be surprised at how many actually came into my office and asked me.

My knowledge comes from books AND FROM LIFE. Once again, it is a lie that medium and big corporations do not pay taxes. It is a lie that the owners do not pay big taxes. It is a lie that they do not pay their fair share. It is a lie that if you taxed them 70% that would solve America's financial problems. It would not even pay for a dent in the deficit once a year. Do your homework. Do the math. Math does not lie. You have not done your homework. Gonna stop following this hub because my blood pressure is already going through the roof. I used to be such a patient and sweet lady. My patience with willful ignorance is gone.

I need my Social Security benefits and my HMOinduced medicare . . . Obama will kill me before he lets me have my own money. Romney may have to give me a modified version - and / or the the guy after Romney. I would rather starve to death than see Obama guarantee that my grandchildren will be slaves. Period.


tammybarnette profile image

tammybarnette 4 years ago

Frog, our personal life where they have no business, but it's ok to tell us what we can and can't do with our bodies, no that's not personal at all. yes you can find a poll for anything you want as well, what does your gut say, do you not see that if the wealthy control everything and the govering bodies are only alking heads then we are living in a dictatorship.

No, I have not sit to read the whole Ryan plan or Obama plan, but I promise that I will, I have only skimmed and researched points of interest to myself and my family.But don't you find it unusual that everything I hear from the right is lets lynch Obama and all his programs that help the unfortunate. The Republicans never lay out a plan that helps everyone, they only want to destroy the plans that help the poor and give tax breaks to the top. They want a huge military, why? why wouldn't it make so much more sense to spend on newer technologies with less collateral damage. Why do you think it should be all man power, we have lost so many lives and so many are hurting.how is that better? Republicans call social programs big government, I call an over indulgent defense purse big government. Yes we need to regulate and control programs but this doesn't happen over night now does it?I have recently heard in my home town that there will be drug screening for food stamp recipients, I say amen. I don't believe people should sit on their tale and collect a check anymore than you but you don't throw out the baby with the bath water. Why do you seem to want helpless people in the streets instead of the wealthy paying the same percent? Your whole party confuses me, you seem like good people, why do you think a person can leave highschool or even college and afford to make it on there own these days, it's not the 50's, gas and groceries are very high cost, My step daughter goes to school and works 40hrs a week at $7.50 an hour, she has a room mate and still barely scrapes by the skin of her teeth. Why do you think any normal middle class family can afford college for 2 to 3kids? I mean really, you guys spout jargen, I'm talking real life here people, because that is what it is all about. God Bless you all, it has been fun, but my real life calls:) (will most certainly read the entire documents)


tammybarnette profile image

tammybarnette 4 years ago

Texas, I don't believe that they will kill you, not for a minute, and this world would sure be worse off without you and your husband. We may disagree on everything politically, but I think you are one dynamite, classy lady, and I am so sorry for your pain, as I was saying, my mother has arthritis as well, she's also worked with her hands her whole life and it's just not fair for her to suffer this way. I wish you and your family all the best.God Bless


The Frog Prince profile image

The Frog Prince 4 years ago from Arlington, TX Author

tammy - I am a Constitutionalist. Do you know what that means? It means that I am for a limited, very limited, federal government. I don't want the federal government's intrusiveness into our personal life at all. The government isn't the solution, it is the problem. I would cut the size of the federal bureacracy in half within 6 months. I would abolish the Departments of Education, Energy and Commerce and the EPA and return control of those issues to the states with minimal federal interference.

Obama (Mr. Thrifty) has increased the size of the federal government by 17% since assuming office. He said he was going to scrub the federal bureacracy when he was campaigning. Most of what he promised has not come to pass. I didn't expect anything but that from a guy who hasn't ever really had a job in his life other than being a community organizer.

I predicted what we are seeing now back in 2008. All the lib bloggers cried. "You lie...You lie..." This wasn't exactly my first political rodeo and the nation didn't need to "on-the-job" train a new CEO. Obama was green then. Now he's just plain stupid and can't run on his record so he campaigns on divisiveness. Saw that coming to.

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:AN...

The Frog


WillStarr profile image

WillStarr 4 years ago from Phoenix, Arizona

"Texas, I don't believe that they will kill you, not for a minute,..."

Then listen to Robert Reich, an adviser to Obama on Obamacare, and to Hillary Clinton when she tried to pass Hillary care. This is what people like Reich and Obama say when they believe they are with liberal elitist friends and won't be overheard: "We are going to let you die!" :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2EFSKVo0rs

Damn right they will allow people like TexasLadyJuanita to die! In fact, they brag about it!

Again, you simply do not know what you are talking about! You need to stop watching MSNBC and look around!


poetvix profile image

poetvix 4 years ago from Gone from Texas but still in the south. Surrounded by God's country.

Tammy - Pull your head out of the rainbow! Stop listening to what the media says and open your eyes. Unemployment is up. The value of the dollar is down. The jobs that this president has created are mostly those of the new census and IRS workers he hired. Oh yes, and lucky for us lowly subjects they are there to come after us. You see, he wouldn't need that many auditors and collectors to get to the rich for there simply is not that many of them! It's pretty simple math really. He called the Bush administration "irresponsible" and "unpatriotic" in his 2008 campaign. This is well documented and you can view the footage for yourself. Then he turned around and drove up the debt way more than Bush ever had. He attacks the Constitution over and over, shamelessly rubbing America's face in the fact that he has total and utter disdain for the document and for congress. I could go on for decades with nothing but proven facts as have many here, and you know it. I have to wonder, with all due respect, do you really believe the things you are saying here? Seriously? If so, I feel sorry for you for no amount of truth is ever going to break through the mile thick walls of denial. But then, there is also the possibility, however remote, your working for them. Just a thought, with all due respect, truly.

Vix


Ghost32 4 years ago

Sign we expect to see spray-painted on the side of Obama's U-Haul truck moving his stuff back to Chicago after November: "You didn't vote me out; somebody else did that!"

Well, hey. That would make as much sense as most anything else about this Presidency.


tammybarnette profile image

tammybarnette 4 years ago

Vix, As I have watched both conventions I am happy to say I have never been more proud to be a democrat in my entire life. As I laid in bed trying to sleep after being so pumped I thought about all of you. You say you feel sorry for me, I feel sorry for you too. We all know the media is in the hands of 5 or 6 people, as much as all of you want to believe that I am a msnbc repeating person it's just not true, but if enough people say it loud enough....But what I find to be sad is stepping back from all the political bull I see a country as divided as it has ever been and for the same reasons. I believe many want to ride Obama out on a rail just because he is black. It's funny to me that each of us believes the other is quoting the biased channels when actually those channels are quoting us. These parties, these politician aren't dividing us after all, we are and have always been divided. I could throw back stuff, W rose the debt ceiling what, like 8 times or so, started wars costing thousand and then millions of dollars a day and then a minute, I mean we could do this all day long, but that bores me to tears. My true reason I came on is that it is so painfully obvious that there really aren't any voices from side. Take a look at this comment section, I'm the only one. Do you guys find it boring to write this stuff for all the same people to come tell you how awesome you are and pat you on the back? I did't come to fight tho, and I'm really ashamed it did kind of go that direction. So, let me just say I am so proud to live in a country where we can all say what we believe, constitutional right I believe, and I shall continue to pray for a day when we the people grow up, get our acts together, and realize we must cooperate and compromise just as our founding fathers did, for the sake of this great country. God Bless America:)


WillStarr profile image

WillStarr 4 years ago from Phoenix, Arizona

Nothing has changed. The Founding Fathers didn't get along at all. The Constitution itself is a compromise.

There are two basic ideas that divide us...one is a big, powerful government that 'takes care of us' and the other is a limited government that respects our liberties.

Therein lies the conflict. As you stated, you are someone who wants to be 'taken care of', while the rest of want to be left alone.

Greece, Spain, Italy, and the other European socialist nations are on the verge of collapse because their citizens wanted to be 'taken care of', but now, the leeches have nearly killed the host, and all those nations are staggering under their crushing debt.

In just four years, Barack Obama has increased our own debt by 50%, and now we are facing the same fate as socialist Europe as more and more Americans are being 'taken care of'.

You admit that you want a big, nanny government. All we want is for government to get out of the way and let us prosper.

That's the difference


tammybarnette profile image

tammybarnette 4 years ago

Will, I take care of myself and my own, thank you very much! I speak for those who need a hand up not a hand out, so at least learn some respect my friend. In case you haven't noticed there are more people who NEED help now because of the disaster your last president made. Unlike you, I don't feel that because I have mine then they can just go build tent cities and starve. That's the difference!


WillStarr profile image

WillStarr 4 years ago from Phoenix, Arizona

"Will, I take care of myself and my own, thank you very much!"

Your own words:

"You will be taken care of under Obama, you will not under Romney, thats just the facts."

Being 'taken care of' is the liberal dream and mantra, as evidenced by Obama's 'The life of Julia" :

http://www.barackobama.com/life-of-julia/

Ir's enough to make a freedom loving American want to puke.


tammybarnette profile image

tammybarnette 4 years ago

Will, I realize that you will never see further than the end of your nose, and you for some reason love to take things out of context. I was, for the last time, explaining to that sweet lady that Obama will save her benifits she has earned and Romney will not, vouchers are not guarantees, you do realize this fact, I hope. Look, I have said I'm not here to fight with the Archie Bunkers of the modern day, have a nice day, God Bless


WillStarr profile image

WillStarr 4 years ago from Phoenix, Arizona

1) Vouchers were never part of Romney's plan. That's another Obama lie.

2) Vouchers are a monetary guarantee. Look it up.

3) Government promises are not guarantees...look at Greece and Spain!

Personal attacks ignored...typical liberal response.


tammybarnette profile image

tammybarnette 4 years ago

Personal attacks ignored,lol, you slice at me and my need to be taken care of every comment you make, I guess you don't like it back at you, huh?Vouchers are a monetary guarantee, haha, yes you would believe that Will, yes they are suppossed to be, I will give you that, and I'm sorry, but I heard Romney say that himself sir, Government promises are not guarantees, well you got that right, what do you think those vouchers are my friend. Please Will, I beg you, just go enjoy your day, have a great one, it's beautiful here today, I hope it is where you live as well, the only reason I keep replyong to you is I just don't want you think that I don't have an answer to your remarks. So live well, be happy, and God Bless


WillStarr profile image

WillStarr 4 years ago from Phoenix, Arizona

"So live well, be happy,.."

That's difficult when government is now so much a part of my life. Did you bother to watch this? It proves my point beyond any doubt:

http://www.barackobama.com/life-of-julia/

Why do you ignore things like that? Because they prove me right? Because they prove you wrong?

Obama and the liberals really do want to control us cradle to grave, and 'take care of' us, so why not just admit it?


tammybarnette profile image

tammybarnette 4 years ago

Will, No I didn't follow your link, and hopefully you know as well as I do that I can send you hundreds of links to prove every point I believe, so that's why I just talk, thats why there aren't any fancy pics or anything like that on my sight. I started on this sight for sharing ideas, not for fighting. Honey, I live in TN, blood red state, I fight enough with people who areborn and bread, cradle to grave republicans. I just thought that maybe I could find a place where grown ups act like grown ups and really listen to one another, but I was mistaken. No hard feelings, I truly hope you have a wonderful day and a prosperous happy and healthy life. I wish that for all Americans. Goodbye my friend, God Bless


WillStarr profile image

WillStarr 4 years ago from Phoenix, Arizona

"Will, No I didn't follow your link, ...'

Well, you should, because it is a direct link to Obama/Biden and their "The Life of Julia" plan to 'take care of' her from cradle to grave.

It's not some opinion link. It comes directly from the White House and proposes to 'care for us' all our lives. It's what we have been telling you and what you have been denying!

No wonder you refuse to watch it. It proves us right!

http://www.barackobama.com/life-of-julia/


tammybarnette profile image

tammybarnette 4 years ago

Well thank you for that Will, that is exactly why I love President Obama. He supports Americans, that way you don't have to a millionaire in order to send your kids to preschool or college, even playing field, that's his promise. Why would you want a nation of poor people living in tents rather than having hard working tax paying citizens? We are only as strong as our weakest link Will. I want people working and paying taxes, not sitting uneducated and starving under a bridge somewhere. I don't know your age or your generation but in case you haven't noticed food and gas are high, college tuition ridiculous, healthcare costs ridiculous, Regular people are trying to put food on the table, gas in their cars to make it to work, regular folks need a shot, need a job, need to have that pride that comes from taking care of your family. I don't understand why you find that so disgusting.


WillStarr profile image

WillStarr 4 years ago from Phoenix, Arizona

We are middle class, but we have all that and we earned it on our own. So can anyone else who has the ambition, and without government.

Gas is high because the Democrats oppose any new drilling on government land. Healthcare costs began to soar right after Medicare became law.

Democrats always look to government for answers, while conservatives do it on their own.

If Democrats wanted to care for the 40 million uninsured, then why didn't they just do it themselves? Why did they have to make it a law that most Americans despise?

In fact, why don't Democrats do all this stuff on their own and leave the rest of us alone? Get out of our lives and out of our pockets!

If you'll notice, all those leeches who are on the government dole always vote for Democrats.


poetvix profile image

poetvix 4 years ago from Gone from Texas but still in the south. Surrounded by God's country.

Tammy - Thank you for responding. I'm really glad you did. I see you a little differently now. It may surprise you to find out that I agree with much of what you said. We are divided. I don't know you and you don't know me. I have written many a hub on exactly that subject. Further, I agree both parties are to blame. You see, I voted democrat in every election since I could vote until the last one. I don't care what color the President is. I don't care what sexual orientation he/she is. Frankly a female president appeals to me in certain ways as we think differently. The problem I have with the current leaders of the democratic party is that are the ones causing the division at the present time.

They are continually assaulting the Constitution, freedom! So many think that document is no big deal. Without it, without the checks and balances that were put in place within its wise framing we become but slaves to our own government. Not being a slave to government is what America is about. Do I agree with everything the right wants? No ma'am. But, without fixing the economy America falls and we become but part of a global government. No matter what this President says, he has driven up debt at alarming levels. Obamacare is nothing if not guaranteed to compound not only financial woes but also social ones. He says he wants to help children and God knows I'm for that but I can not see how a panel determining care based on societal contribution will ever rank a disabled child high on that list.

The President should be a shining example to the people. This man has had multiple identities. He was never vetted. He has repeatedly apologized for our nation when he should be modeling to us all how to be proud of it. He is not a leader. He wants to realign us in the world rankings by his own words written in his own hand in his own book. I liked the idea of America ranking at the top. I'm not about to back anyone that doesn't.


An AYM 4 years ago

PoetVix if you want America to not require apology than we should try and break convention by not acting horribly for once. The economic actions which put America "At the top" are the ones which slash and burn the environment behind us and abuse weaker nations.

I would like it America didn't require apology too, but I think our nation is embarassing. Maybe America should get to the top by just trying to act and live well instead of behaving like international politics is some giant stupid highschool popularity contest.


WillStarr profile image

WillStarr 4 years ago from Phoenix, Arizona

"The economic actions which put America "At the top" are the ones which slash and burn the environment behind us and abuse weaker nations."

Unsubstantiated, ignorant, America-hating, liberal hogwash.


tammybarnette profile image

tammybarnette 4 years ago

Vix, thank you:) at last, a grown up conversation. I can actually understand your fears now that I understand your point of view. I would like to share with you my fear. The way I see this , I believe the fact that Obama is black is the real reason why the rage. D and R's have always battled but not like this. They HATE him. I believe they hate that he beats them at their own game. I don't know if you watched him speak last night but he was amazing! and get this, reminded me of a Republican president. Democrats have been weeniesfor a long time until Bill and ooohhh, hes just as handsome and smooth as a kennedy,lol. But Obama, that man has balls, he has courage, and he is smart, and had enough money to beat them at their own game campaigning! Poor Bahner looks like he is having a nervous breakdown. This is probably why, the elite powers that be, you know the ones who own the media are actually disguising themselves as the Republican party. Bahner(can't spell worth a darn) is probably this really smart man and wanted to make simpson boles happen but his hands were tied. We have to change in this country. We have to help one another so as a country we can kick the you no what out of all the rest. To be the big now in this time in history, you have to have smart, healthy fit prepared citizens. Not this slacker entitled generation with their phones in their face and their skinny jeans. We need to honor human rights, level the playing field, and build from the ground up! God grows everything from the ground up, why shouldn't we.


WillStarr profile image

WillStarr 4 years ago from Phoenix, Arizona

"The way I see this , I believe the fact that Obama is black is the real reason why the rage.'

When all else fails, play the race card. Any criticism of Obama must be racist.

(sigh)


poetvix profile image

poetvix 4 years ago from Gone from Texas but still in the south. Surrounded by God's country.

An AYM - Since you said, "behind us" and "we should try" I assume you are American and therefore did personally 'slash and burn... abuse." No? I thought not. See, WE THE PEOPLE ARE AMERICA. Yes, the leaders of our past and present have done and continue to do horrible things but the spirit of a land of freedom for all is nothing to be ashamed of. Things that happened in our past that we are not responsible for are for us to fix not use as weapons to defend those that are currently ripping us all off, attacking the very foundations of freedom, pitting us at each others throats, shoving legislation down our throats that the vast majority of the nation has said over and over they don't want, making access to healthcare now a tax on all, allowing masses upon masses of illegal aliens to drain social networks, local law enforcement, education, healthcare and on into infinity, the list just goes on and on. They have purposefully devalued our currency by printing it like it's invitations to a Rave. They continue to waste our money as inflation grows like a specter of deprivation upon grocery registers nation wide. This list goes on and on. Guess what. All nations have done things they regret later. America was the shining ideal of freedom for the world. The left is purposefully pissing it down the toilet while laughing all the way to the bank with our money. The very acts you are justifiably complaining about the democrats are now perpetrating upon WE THE PEOPLE.


tammybarnette profile image

tammybarnette 4 years ago

Will, haha man, you make me laugh. I am not a black woman dear so I'm not sure exactly how I can place the race card, how funny that you think it's okay to say that, you really are Archie aren't you. Look, I'm a very comfortable middle class citizen. When I divorced my first husband and me and my two kids had nowhere to go I first used savings and credit cards till I found work, but I eventually had to rely on food stamps for a time period to feed my kids. Then, because of pell grants for single mothers I went and got my degree, I have one in business and one in accounting, now,listen to this part, I am doing very well, remarried, new baby, paying taxes to help others have that same shot from the bottom up! I am a walking testimony of my beliefs! What you got for me now...What part you gonna pull out and retype,LOL


poetvix profile image

poetvix 4 years ago from Gone from Texas but still in the south. Surrounded by God's country.

Tammy – OK, the crux of your argument as to why the vast majority of Americans that are vehemently opposed to the actions, policies and direction of President Barack Hussein Obama, or Barry Sotoro, or who knows what other name, is for no reason other than he is black. There exists no other possible answer and all of these people must fall into this box of racism. What red neck cracker fools they must all be. Hm? That logic leaves out those who are not white and feel that way. It’s not an insignificant number of Americans.

Tammy, the assertion that that many people are all operating off the same premise is statistically a mathematical impossibility. Clumping huge groups of people into a predefined category, or box, such as racist, is the exact same thing as doing it to any other group. It is the essence of discrimination. It is what allows for stereotypes. The very ideology of acceptance you so obviously embrace IS NOT what the Democratic Party leaders and those who automatically relegate anyone who disagrees with them into a labeled box is about. It is the antithesis of tolerance.

You mention in a much earlier comment not addressed to me being “pumped” and in the comment addressed to me you talk about how “amazing” the President was, how “oh, he’s just so handsome” in regards to Bill. By the way, he kind of is. This too is part of the deception, the subtle brilliance that is misleading millions. Look at those comments in isolation for a minute. With all due respect, for you seem a really kind hearted person who cares, you sound like a twelve year old girl talking about a rock star. I’m not saying that to be mean or insulting, honestly. I’m saying it to point out that you are right. These are very charismatic men. He is powerful. He is smart. He does have balls. He does know what he’s doing. He’s destroying this nation.

You talk about him being the champion of us against the global elite. Who do you think is the major money behind him? What has he done with the money of the people? He gave it to businesses owned by his biggest supporters, worse businesses that he and everyone else knew would fail so they in turn could give back huge chunks of money to his campaign, yet again. He gave millions of our dollars to the Muslim Brotherhood. Do you have any idea what they have done to women and female children throughout the world?

Tammy, if you truly care about people, don’t listen to me. Don’t listen to anyone, especially the people you are so enamored of. Try an experiment. Research not the things from your own side but go to the other just for the purposes of critical analysis. Try your dead level best to disprove it using only documented facts from primary sources. Look to voting records, primary sources, not news reports. Look to reports outside the USA. If you really look, the evidence is overwhelming that this President does not want America to succeed.

It has long been said that Satan is beautiful and the road to hell is wide and millions shall pass through its gates walking upon a pavement of good intentions. Be wise. Do not be deceived.

Sir Frog - I apologize for taking up so much space here. I could not resist the pull to speak out!


The Frog Prince profile image

The Frog Prince 4 years ago from Arlington, TX Author

PV - I will associate one name with Barack Hussein Obama though there are many - Georoge Soros. The left wing loons can ignore that one connection al they want but I recommend they research George Soros. I have. It isn't pretty.

Then there is the race card. I have opined about the left's use of the race card many times before. The bottom line is that when they are losing the debate, based upon facts mind you, that card will come out as the card of last resort. That tells the whole world that they have lost the deabte.

The Frog


tammybarnette profile image

tammybarnette 4 years ago

Vix, I was truly trying to talk to you like a girlfriend. Okay, It was meant to be funny that Bill got in because of his looks, and he does remind me of a Kennedy, however, No I am not some hickory nut that adores Obama. He ticked me off right away when he let those tax breaks ride, AGAIN. I have no rock star fantasies I assure you. I do believe this is about race, the people with the money, you know the ones who get really wealthy when there taxes are nill and regulations aren't in check, they own what used to be your party. Bush was a boob, an obvious talking ahead, and when he won, not once but twice, I became afraid for the country, and guess what, low and behold I was right! Now, Obama has the philosophy that WILL work. It is the perfect prescription. No, it will not be fast enough for this mcdonalds, I want mine, generation of people, BUT, that does not change it from being right. When people work together it is amazing what can happen, it also creates a goodwill amoung Americans that can spread and help our name in the global community, but we still have to be ready to stand up for ourselevs. Don't you see that the money makers running the show, who have spread filth all over the tvs and radios and internets, every evil imaginable can be found, learned and accomplished, every sin in the bible, all the traps have been laid. So, if we have a president that evens the field this is when we the people can do stuff! We can get our kids out of the mall in college in jobs, prepared, mentally, physically, spiritually, we can build a country that we are proud of to be sure, but also a safer place for us Americans, US the people. If another talking head like Romney, who his own party don't even want this man, can be pushed thru then all the taxes can be cut for the top, who don't create jobs by the way, little fact, did you know that D's have created more jobs than R's, it's a fact, look it up, then deregulate so the air and water is unsafe, all for the mighty greed of MORE for them and less for everyone else.


The Frog Prince profile image

The Frog Prince 4 years ago from Arlington, TX Author

tammy - You obviously weren't around when Ronald Reagan became our President. If you were you were hiding under your mama's skirt. You make some really outlandish statements without any back up. Your creation of jobs remark is a prime example. Tammy, I actually know some of the people on this thread. They are much older than you are as I am. We lived through what you want to spin without basis. Study history and talk to the people who lived through some of the idiots you idolize.

Obama is unqualified and inexperienced. Biden and Hillary Clinton both stated he wasn't qualified to be the POTUS. He isn't, wasn't and we see him for who he is. Take a look and stop trying to convince people that you know what you are talking about. You nned to start researtching and above all thinking. Try it.

The Frog


poetvix profile image

poetvix 4 years ago from Gone from Texas but still in the south. Surrounded by God's country.

Tammy - "Obama has the philosophy that WILL work. It is the perfect prescription. No, it will not be fast enough for this mcdonalds, I want mine, generation of people, BUT, that does not change it from being right. " Really, can you please define the exact specifics of that plan? Are you currently connected to a crack pipe?

"So, if we have a president that evens the field this is when we the people can do stuff! We can get our kids out of the mall in college in jobs, prepared, mentally, physically, spiritually, we can build a country that we are proud of to be sure, but also a safer place for us Americans, US the people." God Lord! You sound like a flipping TV ad. HOW? None of that is happening. Fewer are going to college under this President. They can't afford it. Tuition rates are up by leaps and bounds across the nation. "Can have jobs.". Seriously? Hello, unemployment up not down. Way more up than is statistically skewed numbers show and we all know it.

Sorry, I tried. Your either so far in stoned out la la rainbow kubaya hippyville to see through the haze of propaganda or your a mouth piece. Either way, I'm out.


tammybarnette profile image

tammybarnette 4 years ago

Frog, be angry all you want dear, I have had my history lessons I assure you and I want you to research the totla amount of jobs created by the presidents, you will see for yourself my friend. I was around and yes very young, sitting on my papaws knee, he was hard core republican, lord he worshipped that man, but now we all know that Iran got all those weapons from him so he could be the hero that retrieved the hostages that poor ole Jimmie couldn't. You think you know everything Frog, you all need to turn your remarks on yourselves, do some research that doesn't support your rhetoric, I already do that man, I make up my own mind, I said earlier, I live in TN, you know, blood red state, my WHOLE family have been republicans their whole lives, and the ones befor them and on and on, I am a self thinker my fried. Obama has handled our foriegn affairs like a pro, Obama found Bin Laden and gave the order, he brought home the troops, as he promised by the way, and he has created 4.5 million jobs without a working congress. Stop being a degrading jerk frog and just listen to me, why would I try to hurt you? Have you read anything I have written, can't you see what kind of person I am. You may be older frog but your not smarter and I don't like being talked down too sir, and I will respect your opinions and you need to respect mine, and we all need to find the middle and quit this crap and grow up and fix the country instead of playing freeze out with Obama, his jobs packaged would have created 2mill new jobs, but no they shut him down! It is the republican party and congress to blame for our slow recovery and you know it! Not one penney for new taxes, misers!!!!!


The Frog Prince profile image

The Frog Prince 4 years ago from Arlington, TX Author

Angry? Hardly. I think the left wing loons in life more than likely outgrow that fate. Not all do but many do. It's called being responsible for yourself, your family and your actions. Anger isn't in my forte. I just am amazed at the stupidity I see around me as an idiot like Obama cons people. That's your gig, not mine.

Bye tammy. The conversation is over.

The Frog


tammybarnette profile image

tammybarnette 4 years ago

Thanks for calling me a loon frog, my family IS responsible and we love helping others. I want to live in America that everyone has a shot at the American dream, sorry you guys find helping people repulsive. I can tell how intelligent all of you are, I just wish Mitt was as smart as you guys because Obama does not have the campaign funds this time, I believe Romneys outspent him like 3-1. and since half this country really only wants to protect themselves and screw everyone else. It's sad man

Vix, aren't you worried about your rights? What is forceable rape? Does that mean if your date raped but the guy doesn't beat the hell out of you then you will have to have his baby?Do you believe insurance should cover your birth control?

Why would anyone want to start tearing at our rights?Hmmm:(


The Frog Prince profile image

The Frog Prince 4 years ago from Arlington, TX Author

All one has to do to "have their shot" is get off their ass and take it. What a crock of shit tammy. Oh woe is me is what I hear. Like I said the conversation is over. The Lord helps those who help themselves.

The Frog


tammybarnette profile image

tammybarnette 4 years ago

Here, okay let's see, you are born and your a crack baby who has been left in the dumpster, you are found and taken to the proper facilities(are those places still being funded under Romney) Did this baby need to get off his ass and get a job?Frog I can tell you stories that will curl your hair, people not born into loving or wealthy families do not get a shot man. Without some steps out of the ditch, the ones that could be tomorrows scientist and inventors do not get that opportunity. The ones who want to sit on their tale will seal their own fate frog...what about the rest? The ones who used to be me frog? I made $6 an hour at a sandwich shop while raising two kids with no help from the father, no family money I'm afraid. My rent was $500 a month, I brought home $650, yes God was there with me, but pell grants put me thru college and food stamps fed my kids.


WillStarr profile image

WillStarr 4 years ago from Phoenix, Arizona

Tammy,

Obviously, you need to understand the terminology. Playing the race card is done by claiming that opposition to Obama is only because he is black. The race of the accuser doesn't matter at all!

In the end, it all comes down to this:

Do you want free-stuff or free-dom?

You can't have both!


WillStarr profile image

WillStarr 4 years ago from Phoenix, Arizona

"The ones who used to be me frog? I made $6 an hour at a sandwich shop while raising two kids with no help from the father, no family money I'm afraid. My rent was $500 a month, I brought home $650, yes God was there with me, but pell grants put me thru college and food stamps fed my kids."

And who made the bad choices that got you into that situation?

Society used to have moral standards that prevented such situations. It used to be that having a baby out of wedlock was frowned upon, and a father who abandoned his children either married and supported the mother or he went jail until he did!

I believe in compassion, and we have helped those who have made mistakes, but they have to take responsibility too. Society needs to go back to the days when there were consequences for getting pregnant out of wedlock. It is devastating to all, but especially to the children.

BTW, the abandonment of those moral standards is the work of Godless liberals.


tammybarnette profile image

tammybarnette 4 years ago

Who, let's see, I was working in a photography studio when I fell head over heals in love with this very charming young man who sold real estate...OH yea man, string me up, I am a harlot! I got married and had two children with the love of my life and at no fault of mine or my beautiful daughters my husband became a crazy drug addict. Have I tried to put him in jail, no. The man owes me $60,000 on the books, I always took the stance that as long as he had some connection in their lives they would be healthier women phsychologically. This is just who I am, I have enough, I am blessed, I want to do something amazing that makes my life worth living, and building this country into a new competitive modern day place that makes China look small, sounds like history in the making and I want that! I am happy to be successful and I want others to feel that way. Constant struggling makes people cold and bitter and nonproductive.


poetvix profile image

poetvix 4 years ago from Gone from Texas but still in the south. Surrounded by God's country.

Tammy - No, I do not believe insurance should pay for my birth control. Further, I'm sick to death of this BS mess about the war on women in relation to health care. I had an ectopic pregnancy that ruptured and I almost bled out before they could get me on the operating table. I was only one year married and very young. I had no health insurance. It wasn’t that aweful long ago. I went, or should I state more accurately was rushed to one of the best hospitals in the state and there was no question at all that they saved my life. My husband gave them a very small down payment as they were wheeling me into emergency surgery while he was running to keep up and sign the documents. We paid out the bill over time. When younger I went to clinics many times and always got treated and paid a fair amount. Birth control is cheaper than beer or cigs, condoms are less than a soda.

As to forceable rape? Remember, you are talking to a woman here, not some innocent little girl speaking only from theory and what TV says. Let’s look at the Muslim groups Obama throws millions at. Even you can't deny all the honor killing of young girls, the rapes, the forced marriages of children.

I have worked with disabled individuals for over 20 years. I have never, ever, in all that time not been able to hook them up with medical care until this last year! Good luck finding a decent doctor that's still taking the government pittance. Thank you Obama care and all you little drones that sing its praises.

Laws regulating abortion can and will do nothing other than insure 12 year old girls die on bathroom floors. It's been going on since the dawn of time. There are laws to prosecute rapist and the President forcing the rest of America to pay for abortions doesn't stop the rape that already happened. It only infringes upon the rights of those who don't want to support it due to religion which is their Constitutionally guaranteed right to be able to practice freely. Abortions are not that expensive and very few who use them out of the total are actual rape victims. Why should anyone be paying for the others?

Health care is not a right. It's a service. Rape is not a political tool and hearing that kind of divisional crap from a grown woman is down right shameful. To be totally blunt, speaking from experience, the answer to it is to do your best to drop the SOB or die trying! Save your instigational remarks for someone that does NOT see through them and someone who does not really care about the rights of women for I am not the one to buy it.

Too many women use abortion as a means of birth control. Too many women, such as yourself, are screaming for the “man” to take care of us. You insult every women that has ever been raped, every woman that ever took a beating so some whiny girl could have the right to vote, could have the right to speak up to a man, could have the right to a job. GROW UP. WAKE UP. DON’T WASTE MY TIME WITH THIS PACK OF LIES!

It is exactly this type of purely emotional, devoid of logic diatribe you have driveled that generated the gender biased stereotype that woman were intellectually inferior to men. THANKS BUNCHES FOR GIVING FUEL TO THAT ARGUMENT!


WillStarr profile image

WillStarr 4 years ago from Phoenix, Arizona

Kudos to poetvix!


WillStarr profile image

WillStarr 4 years ago from Phoenix, Arizona

And it still comes down to free-stuff or free-dom.

You can't have both.


tammybarnette profile image

tammybarnette 4 years ago

Vix, what man are you speaking of? WOW, okay let's see, how about mammograms, should insurance cover that, do you have the kind of money to stay healthy hun, cause I think you look pretty young, let me tell you after forty your body is going to start kicking your ass.I like the way you skirted forceable rape there , but that is some wild language, don't you think? And come on people, I have never said , let me be clear, NEVER thought abortion should be covered by insurance, come on, really. By the way, do mormons believe in birth control? Not sure, just wondering, I know catholics do not.And yes honey healthcare is by goodness a right! I live in the wealthiest land in the world where the best doctors on earth live, their oath should be enough or is that just for show?They shouldn't be out there driving around in porches and paying no taxes when your tax bill is smaller than that of their mid income client! Not only the rich should be able to afford to live.


poetvix profile image

poetvix 4 years ago from Gone from Texas but still in the south. Surrounded by God's country.

Tammy - one more thing. College takes years. I know. I have multiple degrees. I worked three jobs to pay my way as I went working full time and going to school as I could. I never took a dime and did without many a night. That's one of the undeniable differences between left and right. Right breaks their asses to do it for themselves. It's called pride. I could so I did. I'm all for short term assistance to any who really need it, God knows I am. It has been proven time and time again our support systems such as Welfare and Food stamps have become generational. You got off. Good for you. Most don't. There are studies going back over three generations to prove this. It's a form of economic slavery designed to keep the poor poor. If you really want to help, you give a hand up, not a monthly hand out. Do you have any idea how many Pell grant recipients take the money and drop out before the end of the semester? How many only get the money as a scam with no intentions of being educated? Vast numbers. Somehow, I find it hard to believe you don't know all of this. Yet, you love to stir the pot by calling for sympathy when what is needed is direction, guidance and a return to the traditional values of self reliance, community and excellence rather than settling for letting the nanny state be your Daddy. If you really cared about freedom for women you would see that. No one is more enslaved to the system than single, impoverished mothers. I know many who took temporary help and fought their way out of poverty to continue working their tails off. I know many more who are very content to just suck up the monthly check because that is what they have been conditioned to do.


tammybarnette profile image

tammybarnette 4 years ago

Vix, when you were doing school and working 3 jobs, did you have two kids? Did you have the load of work that comes from being a mom. I have always said there should be tight regulations onthese programs just like all other businesses. There should be time limits, and job training available. See when you actually have to build yourself from nothing then you are going to need some help. Have you seen prices of daycare? All I can assume is you had parents with money, if not I apologize. What would you have done Vix, if you were me? How would you have worked those three jobs and raised two children, well I might add, Would you leave them with your parent's? Regulations, I say it all the time, without them foodstamps rise and wall street drives our country into a BIG ditch!


poetvix profile image

poetvix 4 years ago from Gone from Texas but still in the south. Surrounded by God's country.

Tammy - Mammograms? Really? You want to go there. OK. They are covered under most insurance programs now. Further, if you look around, you can get one for free, thank you Breast Cancer Awareness Program. You see there are huge buses that go around and do them right there in your local community. They are really neat. It was too cool to take the tour when they, for several years in a row, came to the school I work at to offer them, for free. Funny, they haven't been around since Obama took over. I heard something about their funding got cut.

Thanks bunches for the compliment. I'm 45. Mother nature kicked in some time back weather it shows in the face yet or not. Save the alarmist mess in relation to old age to someone that didn't watch the elderly drop like flies. They are dropping now. They can't afford AC or groceries. I know a kid whose dad is a disabled vet. He got three various monthly benefit checks from the government. NO ONE IS MORE ENTITLED AS FAR AS I AM CONCERNED. The kid came to see me recently because he was hungry. He knew I would take care of him and no one would know. You see under your glorious President, the kind and compassionate savior of you comatose drones, his Dad's three checks were all cut. Mom is working full time for minimum wage and Dad is cutting yards where he can though it's going to kill him. Of the three kids one is working and giving every penny to help pay the rent. The one that came to me is hunting a job like a fish hunts water. The oldest is slaving to feed his own family and sharing the food stamps his wife gets for their four kids. The illusion that this administration is helping the poor is nothing more than that. The truly poor hardworking Americans are the ones suffering most while parasites that could work but won't for minimum wage suck up tax dollars.

As for forcable rape remark. Rape is rape, hon. No is no. This too is just another form of distractionary mess. It matters not if the guy leaves you bleeding and broken on the floor or just holds you down or drugs you and you wake up pregnant. The horror, the violation, the humiliation, the assertion of dominance for no reason other than sadistic pleasure, it's all the same and the real pain lives inside long after the bruises fade. Again, it doesn't have anything to do with Christians being forced to pay for all abortions and you know it. There are only three ways to ever deal with rape. Repress it and hide within, be a victim all your life. Stand up for yourself, fight as hard as you can, drop or die, or get knocked out and then go after the SOB when you come to, or prosecute and be mind raped by the left dominated legal system. Still, its all ugly but it not a hill of beans to do with paying for an abortion. You mix issues to blend a wretched brew. You are a disgrace to real, honest, moral American women with your loose tossing about of a truly evil plague upon women to further a political argument. You make me sick.

Read the constitution if you are able. No where in it does it say you have the right to health care. Ask a woman who stands up for herself and she will tell you that you don't have the right to use a issue that is very personal to so many as a weak weapon to shoot off at the mouth with zero evidence to back up your claims. Oh, but while I'm thinking of it. Thanks bunches for seeing this hub got so many hits. I love the Frog and seeing this take off it ten kinds of cool in my book.


tammybarnette profile image

tammybarnette 4 years ago

Wow, I am the one USING this arguement, okay, OBAMA is the guy who broke everything . I am happy for you for looking so young, do you have kids? See kids cost some money, hun. I give you loads od cudous for feeding a child, and especially working in a horrifyingly sad and harsh field. I worked in that field for awhile myself. Yes I know our econmoy is bad and I remember why, do you?

What is this whole rant on christians paying for abortion? I completely agree, I even capitalized, abortion should not be covered. But yes, annual gyno visits, apprpriate testing, yes this stuff needs to be covered, pregnancy, ultra sounds,ETC. Women's health is a huge issue this season, and hun, I will fight for my rights, and if you want to sit down and let that ride that will be on your conscience.(wow, and I did't have to call you names or anything)


poetvix profile image

poetvix 4 years ago from Gone from Texas but still in the south. Surrounded by God's country.

Tammy - If my parents had money, I wouldn't have had to work three jobs. My single mother raised me after my father was murdered and never took a dime. She worked her ass off nights so we could eat. She drilled in my head to work my ass off and then help others for she felt that the fact my father worked his ass off to send her to nursing school meant she should spend her life repaying it by helping others. I learned that lesson. It's why I have worked with the disabled for so long first on a behavior modification level in group homes and a brief stint in a nursing home where I saw up close and personal just how much the government cared about them. I now work teaching disabled children. They want to work. I help them get jobs among other things. I also connect them and their families to things like medical care and other support services. You would not believe the abuses of the system I have seen over the years. Do you have any idea how many kids have to turn down jobs because mommy is not about to give up that government check she had herself set up as payee on before the kid turned 18. The kid now has to go along and often stay in school til they are 22 to stay w/ mommy so she can still suck up her check though I have a job offer on the table and they want to take it. Granted, there are many children who need those checks. I want them to have them and fight on behalf of them to get them. It's getting to be a harder fight every day. It's only been recently, under this President that I have seen this population being cut off more and more. HCS services are virtually non-existant now. Families with no transportation are doing without medical care because the specialist they need have gone out of business in their town or are no longer accepting Medicare. This administration made those cuts and spawned Obamacare which is fueling this.

No, I don't have two kids. But, I know what I would have done. I would have done what one of my best friends did with her three kids. She put them in the college day care and worked two jobs while she went to school and did without. God love her. I know. I helped babysit them when I wasn't in class. She's now supporting six kids and still working her tail off. She's never taken a government dime.


WillStarr profile image

WillStarr 4 years ago from Phoenix, Arizona

"Women's health is a huge issue this season, and hun, I will fight for my rights..."

We have a God-given right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

We do not have a right to free-stuff, including our medical costs.


tammybarnette profile image

tammybarnette 4 years ago

College day care, well we don't have an inexpensive college daycare here, no it was going to cost about $250 a week, and I actually wanted to see them and do homework with them and you know raise them, myself. I am proud of your mom, I had a single mother as well. I am very sorry about your father, can't even imagine.It is fantastic that your father sent your mother to school, wow, that is awesome, like a true love story. What you are doing for a living is awesome. You are making a differnce in people's lives and my hat is off to you for that. Vix, Obama did't dig the hole. He could have done more for recovery if they would have approved a tax on the top, just a fair one, like we pay. Vix, the economy will not work without ALL of us working, full employment in economic terms. It can't be all cuts, it has to be taxes and I know you guys know this. I am so proud for you and your mother, let me say the hardest job I have ever had is being a mother, and it pays absolutley nothing.


tammybarnette profile image

tammybarnette 4 years ago

Will, insurance is not free stuff, we pay for it?


WillStarr profile image

WillStarr 4 years ago from Phoenix, Arizona

"Will, insurance is not free stuff, we pay for it?"

Then why is government telling us that 'access' now a 'right'?

'Access' in liberal jargon means 'free'!


tammybarnette profile image

tammybarnette 4 years ago

Will, I pay for mine, I'm sur your family does as well, we are not po folks, thanks to the good lord above, let us not forget that, WE didn't build anything that was not comissioned by Him. Those with much should give much, we should not expect that the building we call church could possibly clean up this mess. Good greif, I'm exhausted, it's late. I will pray for you all as well as our country. I really just wish the people would see....


poetvix profile image

poetvix 4 years ago from Gone from Texas but still in the south. Surrounded by God's country.

Tammy - Thanks but no thanks. Save your kudos, proud of's and I'm sorry for someone else. I'm proud of them and I'm proud of me. They taught me to tell the truth. The truth is your guy is burying us all. I don't believe you don't see it. You argue too well. I hope when you sleep, if you can sleep, you continue to dwell within your dreamland, if you really believe this swill you spout, for when and if you ever wake up and realize it was you, people just like you spouting this mess, that landed America in chains you will know who you have to blame. It will be the first time a leftist took responsibility. The crack in the Liberty bell will look miniscule compared to the one in the mirror. Feel free not to speak to me again.


tammybarnette profile image

tammybarnette 4 years ago

Vix why are you freaking out. I guess typed words do not come across as the way they were intended. I can not imagine the pain of having my father taken from me, or my husband. That is unimaginable pain, there are no words. You should be proud, of them and yourself. I have only been trying to share my beliefs with you, I'm not sure about the chains part, but I can see us living in a place that looks and smells and is trashed like India, that's my deepest fear. I have meant no disrespect and apologize from the bottom of my heart if you thought otherwise. Goodnight


poetvix profile image

poetvix 4 years ago from Gone from Texas but still in the south. Surrounded by God's country.

Tammy - Dear, freak out? LOL. Calling you out is a far cry from freaking out. I'm barely awake. Tell ya what. Let me grab a cup of Joe and let's dance. You seem to like endless debate based in trash and rhetoric. I bore of it typically, but I have nothing else to do right now more pressing so feel free to continue throwing up purposefully misleading, evidence lacking, distractionary, emotive arguments and I'll have some fun poking holes in them.

I'll even give you a head start. Why don't you name just one thing Obama promised to do and actually did. Just one.


TexasLadyJuanita profile image

TexasLadyJuanita 4 years ago from Kemah, TX

Just popping in for a moment. The race card is the biggest lie anyone can not only swallow, but by pushing the idea to others is proof that ideas are not thought through to completion. 3/4 of the U.S. is white 13% is black. White people decide who will be president, and they voted for a black man with a silver tongue when his teleprompter works (he even took it to an elementary school room) who promised hope, change, TRANSPARENCY LOL!! among other things.

When he loses it will be by a mandate of white people who regret voting for his kind of Socialistic, Marxist change.

You can't have it both ways :) White people don't give a flip about his 1/2 blackness. White people want a good president, and they will rally around the best candidate. Period. Nothing to do with race 4 years ago, and nothing about race this time.


The Frog Prince profile image

The Frog Prince 4 years ago from Arlington, TX Author

tammy - The users here have ya pegged to a "T." Not liking Obama's socialist policies is racist you see Juanita.


bobspunkin 4 years ago

Frog Prince, another great post, hub or whatever this is. I am new at this so bear with me (you notice that I use "bear" correctly?) I skimmed over the comments and one thing I wanted to say to Tammy was this (someone may have said it already but it's my turn now): when my son was in middle school, one of his classes was "health". He came home to tell me he learned all about birth control and one of the methods was abortion. We are a born-again Christian family and we agreed that we didn't agree. Anyway, as middle school progressed when both kids were there, a young member of our extended family became pregnant. It was a wake-up call for me. Just because I had instilled Christian values in my children didn't mean they would necessarily make the choices I'd want them to make. I sat them both down and said that even though I hoped and prayed that they would wait until marriage, that ultimately it was their personal choice when the time came. I told them BOTH that I considered having sex was an adult decision and as such, they needed to bear adult responsibility for their choices. I told them that if they didn't want to end up pregnant (or the girl pregnant), I expected them to take measures to help prevent that from happening. Please be aware that sexually transmitted infections were not what they are today. When my son made his decision, he was responsible. He bought his own condoms. When my daughter made her decision, she went to Planned Parenthood and got birth control pills. They are very reasonable at PP and it includes an exam. Now I know there is a lot of hate thrown at PP but they DO offer real birth control, pap smears, mammos, etc. as well as abortions. That is an argument for another day. As someone else commented above, even today you can go to PP and get them at a reasonable price and I don't understand why I have to pay for your choice to have sex! I expected my kids to take responsibility for their own bodies and now I have to pay for yours? Why? It has nothing to do with hate or racism....it is about being responsible. Birth control is not an illness; it is a pro-active step we take to prevent pregnancy. I should not have to pay for your decision to prevent pregnancy. Thanks for reading.

Frog Prince, I didn't address the points you made but you were spot on!


poetvix profile image

poetvix 4 years ago from Gone from Texas but still in the south. Surrounded by God's country.

Tammy – You state “What is this whole rant on christians paying for abortion? I completely agree, I even capitalized, abortion should not be covered. But yes, annual gyno visits, apprpriate testing, yes this stuff needs to be covered, pregnancy, ultra sounds,ETC. Women's health is a huge issue this season, and hun, I will fight for my rights, and if you want to sit down and let that ride that will be on your conscience.”

HELLO. You’re the one championing your lord Obama and his saving of the poor, his helping of you all. The only piece of legislation he has ever passed that was evenly loosely veiled to resemble something fitting that description was Obamacare. You have been singing his and its praises. It calls for the mandatory participation of all, including churches, in insurance premiums some of which will be used to pay for abortions. You state you have researched the issues. If that is true, then you know those are undeniable facts. If you don’t know they are, then you have not researched.

You state that you are only trying to “share your beliefs” yet you repeatedly have dodged major points in rebuttal to go straight to the same old cards of racist, champion of the poor, and fictitious assaults on the rights of women. You say ultra sounds, gyno visits and other stuff should be covered as if it never has been. Oh yea, been covered for a long time. You can easily obtain a policy for women’s health. It costs more but it’s way less than Obamacare is going to cost us all. Women have never been denied any of these services. They just had to pay for them. It’s called a free market economy. We have also had hospitals that do all of this for free or reduced sliding scale payments and pay outs over time all along. Now, granted the prices have gone insane and the medical system having become a corporation has to be fixed, but Obamacare does not do that. It exacerbates the problem. Again, research, primary sources, undeniable fact, dear.

You keep talking about the needs of women, the needs of single mothers and the poor, obviously trying to garner support from females on female issues. I’m female. I don’t want to be sucking on Obama’s tit. I’m not going to sit back and silently watch you or any other women make a mockery of the freedom women have sacrificed so much blood for over the generations. We fought and bled to be able to think for ourselves, to be able to stand up and take care of ourselves. You would have us subservient and dependent upon “the man” just as we were and still are for some dependent upon a man. We can afford ten to twenty bucks a month at Wal-Mart for birth control pills and fifty once a year for the clinic to get pills if we want them. We can’t afford to make a mockery of the very real abuse against women that still continues to this day in an effort to elicit a feeling of camaraderie from our own gender at the expense of our independence.

When approaching me and others in comments you have been very good at singularizing your arguments to the individual. It’s a great tactic. It’s used in sales all the time. You were so quick to call me young and then backtrack. You were so quick to assert I came from wealthy parents or even had parents making said assumption based on the face I went to college alone. You were so quick to assume Will is a bigot even going so far as to call him an “Archie Bunker.” I’ve followed him for I guess over a year now. He’s anything but. That man understands more about the rights, problems of and issues facing women than you ever will. All you have to do is but to read his western fiction to see the themes of justice for all that run through his soul.

You do this because in your attempt to sidle up to him, just as in your attempts to sidle up to me your mistake was in misjudging who we were to start with so you aimed your side ways arguments incorrectly thinking to hit on issues that would pull at our hearts. You did the same thing to Texas.

You apologize for this and say you respect that, yet keep pushing for an administration that is doing the things you are supposedly sorry for and destroying respect for everything America was built to stand for. These are things such as destroying the economy by exponentially exploding debt while purposefully strangling small business, the backbone of the American economy, and instigating class war fare as defined as those making over 250k a year as compared to the rest of us which we all know is chump change in the overall scheme of the money running this country and being robbed to be wasted and sucked up. Purposefully instigating racial, gender, and perceived economic status psychological and sociological warfare upon the people would have to be included in that list too. You have to see it considering your earlier comments about division and racism.

And further, I’m going to tell you, I almost never take these comments on hubs personally but you have truly pissed me off. You state, “Vix, aren't you worried about your rights? What is forceable rape? Does that mean if your date raped but the guy doesn't beat the hell out of you then you will have to have his baby?Do you believe insurance should cover your birth control?

Why would anyone want to start tearing at our rights?Hmmm:(“

Your divisionary comments about women being raped and tying that into political arguments in support of Obamacare and the left are so much more offensive coming from you than a man. You see, I don’t take the comments men make about the subject near as seriously as the ones women make. The sexes are different and they can never truly understand how a woman feels to be physically dominated by a man. Granted, men have been raped too but mostly by other men. It’s not the same. But you can. You’re grown. You should and I believe do know better.

You’re an Obamabot willing to sell out your gender, every woman that has ever sacrificed for us girls, every one of us girls that still is being abused, all of us, for a few pills and a ultra sound picture in exchange for our independence and right to decide. I pray to be able to believe you are blind and ask for wisdom for you over calling you out for the oppositional, freedom sucking things you are spouting. So far, I’m just ticked off about the hypocrisy, mockery and whininess of it all.


SassySue1963 4 years ago

See, now I have to chime in yet again.

Tammy you say "I remember why it's so bad do you" when referring to the economy. Do you, really? For instance, are you aware that Democrats held both Houses of Congress from 2006-2010? Do you realize who does what in this country? Are you aware that the bubbles that burst under Bush had their fruition under Clinton? Are you aware, that one of the major contributors to our debt is the trade deficit and it turned on its head under Clinton? The GOP has their share of the blame as well, not giving them a free ride, but the blame Bush game doesn't work for those of us who've been around any length of time. Somewhere up there you speak of 4 million jobs created. Eh, not exactly hon. Sorry. It is a net of only 300,000 and a large percentage of those are Government jobs. Not public sector jobs like policemen, firemen and teachers but actual Government jobs like his Czars, IRS enforcers (we need them you see, for that mandate tax) and the like. Government is the only area that has seen an increase in jobs under Obama.


An AYM 4 years ago

Holy cow. That's a lot of text that comes up quickly.

To PoetVix:

The president doesn't determine the actions of the people. When I talk about America acting atrociously that role is very heavily shared. I come from an environmentalist perspective. The U.S. has a childishly high standard of living which we all seem to feel we're somehow entitled to. We get the world handed to us on a plate and live like royalty, yet the moment someone might even slightly infringe on that entitlement there's hell to be had.

I have little interest in issues of the economy when all I see around me is the practiced skill of purchasing pointless things and spending beyond our means. "They waste our money" because we want everything. They waste our mouth because we froth at the mouth for the military like it's important.

The spirit of freedom as a concept to the nation is littered in hypocrisy. Our freedoms have always been built on the backs of the exploitable. How can you be angry about less freedoms and leniency to immigrants in the same thought? Am I so off-center as to believe that the point of "Freedom" as a cornerstone is that it should apply to more than whoever was there first?


SassySue1963 4 years ago

@AYM No one wants to take any rights away from LEGAL immigrants. It is a question of ILLEGAL immigrants receiving benefits born of the tax dollars of working Americans. And they do. Make no mistake about it. Some even abuse it, like the tax credit for children, claiming children out of country and even making children up that don't exist.

As for the environment side, you speak as if every nation of the rest of the world lives in perfect harmony with nature. You do realize how untrue that is correct? As a nation, we make every attempt to preserve nature while using the resources we need. We even have laws about it and what condition the land must be left in after use, but sometimes, the two will be at odds. No one can deny that. We cannot have zero impact on the environment, it is a fairy tale. The goal is to have as little impact as possible and we do attempt to meet that goal. If you were specifically referring to Global Warming, you should do a little more reading. It is a natural cycle of the Earth itself and while we most surely have sped the process up, we are not its cause. Even the most devout scientists of Global Warming say we cannot stop it no matter what we do.

You don't think the military is important? Why is it do you think that you can say such things? Do you think it just happened and voila! it is forevermore? It is the military that has protected your free speech. Do you understand that in a time when we are facing terrorist threats all around the world, Obama is cutting our military to the bone? Who do you think is going to protect us then?


WillStarr profile image

WillStarr 4 years ago from Phoenix, Arizona

"Our freedoms have always been built on the backs of the exploitable. "

Where do you get such trash?

Good Lord! What are they teaching our children?


An AYM 4 years ago

Where do I get such trash?

From the get-go we started out by taking the land from Native Americans and killing them. We got great economic clout from slavery. We spent the better part of each world war as war profiteers staying out of it while selling arms. We exploited the resources/people from South American and Middle Eastern countries for more economic gain. We still have American companies in foreign countries paying crap wages to make the most money possible off of others.

I think the shame is that they don't teach us this, and that you have to go looking through books yourself.


An AYM 4 years ago

SassySue I realize we aren't the only ones bad to the environment, but the fact is that we are completely awful to it and describing us as making every attempt to preserve it is heartbreakingly wrong. There isn't a lot of competition in terms of doing it worse.

Nearly everyone I've known (And I've only ever lived in America) has believed meat is the main part of every meal. I am not a vegetarian but I keep it to maybe once a month because the amount of resources that has to go into sustaining that is mind boggling. How many millions of cars do we have on the road? How many of them are giant SUVs and Hummers so we can preserve some shallow sense of American machismo? How many people actually ride a bike or bus? How many people actually try to focus on consuming products that don't have to fly around the world to get to them? Just because we have environmental legislation (Which gets put in place because we ream it too hard) doesn't mean we're environmentally conscious.

And yes I do think the military is pointless. And no they didn't preserve my freedom of speech because the last military engagements which actually threatened America were the Revolutionary and Civil Wars.

A big part of the terrorist threats that face us is because of our regrettable behavior. And terrorists are small groups - they're not whole countries. I don't believe you need hundreds of billions of dollars and however many millions go into military service to deal with small groups.


tammybarnette profile image

tammybarnette 4 years ago

Good Morning, Okay let's see I really have no idea where to start. The truth is everything I have written, is what I believe from the bottom of my soul. I tried to talk to everyone personally because I believe that is proper etiquette when having a conversation. I did not dodge issues, I have spoken from the heart. It is strange how anything I say, that comes from my brain, my fears, my thoughts, as a human, as a mother, as a wife, as a woman, that ALL of you have some lude comment to make. The R's have always talked in catch phrases, so every arguement I make, every worry I have, they have beat me to the punch and gave it a title, lile "the race card" No matter how you people spin it, the reality does not change. I could type a book here, I could personally take on each comment, break it down, give facts figures solid answers, but I am not wasting anymore time here. I can tell that no matter what I prove to you, you will have math from an alternate universe or some catch phrase for an answer. OR I could even use the R method and just anihilate your guy Romney. But, instead, I am going to spend the weekend with my family. My 4 yr little one is about to start a dance class so we are going shopping in about 5 min's for tutus, My oldest daughters fiance has a big game tonight, and tomorow as always, our family gathers for a meal and time to catch up. These are my priorties, this is my value system, I support and believe in everything we have spoken about here and I am just so sad that not even one person HEARD me. I have been insulted and practically cussed out at every corner, I have had a woman in my own age group and generation accuse me of using my beliefs in women's rights and my fears about women's health issues as some sort of political tool. I have been the punching bag in this comment section and stood on my own and kept my cool and tried hard not to go as low as some of you. I have not condemned you for your beliefs only told facts about my own. I can say that I am proud of myself for handling myself with dignity and pride while trying to convey a message but everyone has their minds made up, Obama can be the scapegoat for all that has been. Well, as from the beginning, the country is divided in half, so who ever wins this election will be close, so if my guy wins I pray your fears are not true(chains, socialism, etc.)If your guy wins, I hope my fears are not true(same broken economic model making the rich richer and the poor poorer, losing my rights beginning with my healthcare,and a road to a country where the poor live in tent cities outside the walls and gated communities of the wealthy.God Bless each and everyone of you:)


WillStarr profile image

WillStarr 4 years ago from Phoenix, Arizona

Most Indians had no concept of land ownership. They were nomads who moved with the food supply and claimed no land as their own. In any case, all land, everywhere on Earth had been taken by conquerors several times over, so who does it really belong to?

Slavery has been around for centuries, and more whites have been enslaved over the years than blacks. In any case, the country that gives you the right to spout off, is also the country that fought a bloody war to end slavery, once and for all. Where's the credit for doing that?

Those who sell us their resources are only too happy to do so! Do you expect the Arabs to drink their oil? It's called world trade!


An AYM 4 years ago

Then at least that means you admit that our freedom is hypocritically founded on taking it from others? The reason that it's okay to conquer land and kill others for it is because "At least we weren't the first"?

I'm aware slavery has been around for centuries and that LOTS of people have been enslaved. Once again - just pointing out that it was an important foundation to giving our country its economic heft. Just because our end to slavery was so violent doesn't make it specifically more noble than countries that did it without violence. I don't see any points from you that we didn't build our freedom by exploiting others, just attempts at justifying it because "We're not the only ones who did".

I admittedly don't know the story of every middle eastern country, but I will let you know that the reason Iran is so pissed off at us is because they weren't happy to do so. They were invaded by the allied forces when they were neutral in World War 2. When they tried to nationalize their resources so the benefit could actually go back to the people, we ousted the politician responsible for spearheading that change. There's a difference between world trade and twisting someone's arm till they give you something.


WillStarr profile image

WillStarr 4 years ago from Phoenix, Arizona

Our freedom is founded on a new idea that our Founding Fathers had, not on anything you are crying about, and that freedom extends to all people.

Neither does our freedom depend on what dictators or religious fanatics think of us.

You are mixing apples and oranges.


An AYM 4 years ago

You're still just completely ignoring the point.

You seem to think I'm wrong in saying that our freedoms were built by exploiting others. You've said nothing to the contrary of that, just half-hearted justification.

I'm not mixing unhomogenous fruit, I'm giving you specific examples that support my point of us hurting and ruining other people for our own benefit, and then acting like high-fiving ourselves over loving "Freedom" isn't hypocritical.

Freedom was not a new idea when the Founding Fathers wrote it in. And I feel it reasonable to point out that at the time that freedom did not extend to say, slaves or women.

I know we don't agree with eachother on how things should be, I just want you to recognize and admit the hypocrisy we sell.


WillStarr profile image

WillStarr 4 years ago from Phoenix, Arizona

"You seem to think I'm wrong in saying that our freedoms were built by exploiting others. "

Explain how exploiting others makes us free.


An AYM 4 years ago

Because freedom as I see everyone interpret it here is "The privilege to do whatever you want, whenever you want".

Exploiting others gave us our absurd standard of living which we now somehow interpret as a right. In our world we're unable to make decisions or move things without money and that is in high circulation because of our actions. Exploiting others made us free because exploiting others gave us access.

We think we have a right to guns because we have access to them.

We think everyone has a right to a giant home because we have access to them.

We think we have a right to deny a policy which could benefit a larger number at only the most minor of inconveniences to us, simply because we think it's our right to never have inconvenience.

We think we have a right to live however we please - which simply doesn't work from a realistic perspective - because we have everything already.

Exploitation provides money. Money provides access and 'things'. Access and things provide freedom because access and things provide options and leisure.


An AYM 4 years ago

The big hypocrisy that it's built on that frustrates me is that anything that might slightly lessen our own freedom provides us a valid enough excuse to take the freedoms of others.

What makes me angry is that we love to shoot our guns in the air and hoot about freedom even though we believe our freedom is more important than other freedom. We care about never having to be told what to do. All I want is honesty - we don't care about "Freedom", we care about getting to live like spoiled children.


WillStarr profile image

WillStarr 4 years ago from Phoenix, Arizona

"Because freedom as I see everyone interpret it here is "The privilege to do whatever you want, whenever you want"."

Ah! No wonder your view is so skewed.

Freedom and liberty have nothing to do with exploiting others. Look up the definitions and get back to us.

Seeking a better life and standard of living is not absurd at all. In fact, the fact that you are whining about it on the hi-tech internet using your hi-tech electronic device exposes you as the real hypocrite!

Think about it.


An AYM 4 years ago

Jeebus you're shallow. Yes, I am the real hypocrite. I only ride a bike even though I own a car, I try to only buy from within my community when possible, I try to make a consistent effort to be as responsible and good as I can, but because my job quite literally only involves working at a computer I am a terrible hypocrite. Please, tell me more about myself because you're clearly the expert here.

The standard of living IS absurd. If it's not sustainable then it's absurd.

Humor me. Why does the thought of "Obamacare" make you upset? Why do you feel that your freedom is being restricted? Implicate your definition of freedom into this situation so we can come to a clear understanding.


The Frog Prince profile image

The Frog Prince 4 years ago from Arlington, TX Author

AYM - Time for me to chime back in too. If you are a believer of the US Constitution, which I don't know, then it is easy to answer your question about Obamacare. The role of the federal government according to that document is 1) limited and 2) enumerated. In otherwords it has its limits using specific guidelines found in our founding documents. If you haven't read the Constitution before, and many have not, you need to do so as a citizen of this nation.

The role of the federal government is not to get between you and your physician. That is extremely personal. Obamacare does exactly that. Obamacare is going to have a detrimental effect on the younger people of this nation whether they realize it or not. Taking it a step further, way back in this thread it was pointed out a lot of people talking about the bill itself have not read the bill. They are using talking points. The bill is not about health care at all. It is about government control of 1/6th of our economy. I suggest that you actually read the bill if you have not.

Then you will see why a majority of people still oppose Obamacare and want it repealed. It's a matter of educating yourself and not relying on some one to do that for you via talking points.

The Frog


WillStarr profile image

WillStarr 4 years ago from Phoenix, Arizona

You are fee to live in a cave gnawing on bones, if you think your standard of living needs to be diminished to that of third world countries!

That's freedom, so go do it!

You can go the sackcloth and ashes route if you wish, but don't whine about it when others don't buy in to your silly liberal guilt! Just as you are free to be a guilty liberal, the rest of us are free to strive for a better life.

Sheesh.


An AYM 4 years ago

I had intended to when it came around, and unless I had the wrong papers, that document comes in at just under 1000 pages. I'm not going to read it all myself, and I have my sincere doubts that you have too. We are all relying on talking points to an extent. Do you believe the system was good before? Was healthcare anything but a joke beforehand? I would rather we take steps to do anything, even if it isn't the best at first, than flounder in ineffectual senate debate. That way things can be directed and improved over time.

Admittedly I am more interested in philosophically jabbing WillStarr, and if you don't want in your comments section I will certainly oblige and ignore that.


An AYM 4 years ago

I would sincerely like your thought on the final part of that question WillStarr, why do you personally dislike it?

I am not a guilty liberal - I loathe both sides of American politics. You want my view than yes, I think we should be living in an intelligently organized Agrarian society.


The Frog Prince profile image

The Frog Prince 4 years ago from Arlington, TX Author

It's over 2,700 pages AYM. Start reading. The Democrats rammed it through withpout any of them having read the bill. Or is that acceptable now too? Pass legislation withpout giving people a chance to read what they are voting on. What a novel idea.

The Frog


An AYM 4 years ago

Hmm, I'm sure you have the whole 2,700+ memorized. Politicians from both sides skip out on reading what they should, which IS ridiculous, but it happens.

What do you propose should have been the solution? A big part of the unrealistically high healthcare costs is our own irresponsibility in over-using care. What are we to do to try and make things reasonable when we can't act responsibly?


The Frog Prince profile image

The Frog Prince 4 years ago from Arlington, TX Author

No need to memorize AYM but I do have a knowledge of what is in the bill and how much of it has nothing to do with health care. Again, read it. You are using a straw man argument. You asked what is wrong with it and I gave you the basic essentials.

The Frog


SassySue1963 4 years ago

@AYM smh They did not skip it, they were denied the opportunity. Not the same thing. Pelosi arrogantly stated "you'll have to pass it to see what's in it".


The Frog Prince profile image

The Frog Prince 4 years ago from Arlington, TX Author

Sassy - The bill was crafted behind closed doors, contrary to what Obama said was to occur. It wasn't posted for 5 days on line before the vote. Again, something Obama stated was going to happen. It was the most non-transparent legislation ever written in our nation. 2,700+ pages of crap is exactly what it is.

Obama said many things, made many promises and the majority of them have not happened. The lists are out there and will be used in the upcoming debates I would hope.

The Frog


An AYM 4 years ago

I'm not denying that I haven't read the whole bill. If you have then really, many kudos to you Frog Prince, you're part of a very very very small percentage.

I'm not saying this is our grand fix-all but I am curious what you think the right choice would have been. Doing nothing was clearly not a good solution. You're all so angry as though the system wasn't crappy. We're not tearing down a work of art and replacing it with a turd sandwich, it was a turd sandwich to start and we're trying to do something different.


WillStarr profile image

WillStarr 4 years ago from Phoenix, Arizona

As always, when government gets involved, costs soar. When did medical costs suddenly rise? Right after the introduction of Medicare. Check it out.

The majority of Americans despise Obamacare and want it repealed, but the Dems shove it down out throats anyway. They are forcing it on us.

That is not freedom.


WillStarr profile image

WillStarr 4 years ago from Phoenix, Arizona

". You want my view than yes, I think we should be living in an intelligently organized Agrarian society."

Then go for it. No one is stopping you. The rest of us are free to live the way we want.

Problem solved. That was easy.


The Frog Prince profile image

The Frog Prince 4 years ago from Arlington, TX Author

AYM - I know what doctors say about the drivers behind the high cost and neither of the primary two were addressed in Obamacare. Again, during the health care summit Obama said one thing and we saw another. The first driver is tort reform. That needs to be done and everyone recognizes it. The opposition to that is the trail attorney's lobby. Powerful lobby when you have attorneys dealing with attorneys or former attroneys. The second driver is not allowing the free market to operate by allowing insurance companies to market and sell across state lines. Factual drivers that physicians have explained and politicians like to ignore. It is all based upon money and the onus doesn't lie solely upon ionsurance companies.

The Frog


An AYM 4 years ago

Costs also soared when patients started looking up more for themselves, which is a good thing, but also a bad thing. This resulted in a lot of people saying "I need this" which was a big part of prices soaring.

Starr, the reason I wanted to use one particular example in terms of relating it to freedom is to point out the "Minor inconvenience issue". You have a world of things forced on you. If you didn't want anything forced on you, you would be an anarchist and not pay taxes. Your concept of freedom is based in convenience.

Example - Police, Public Education, and Firefighters are also technically forced on you without your consent, but we like them so it's not such a big deal. If your big deal was the concept of "Freedom" as a whole you WOULD probably want to live in the wilderness. If your issue was that someone is somehow minorly inconveniencing you would probably just jibe about what you individually don't like while ignoring the rest.


The Frog Prince profile image

The Frog Prince 4 years ago from Arlington, TX Author

AYM - There is a distinct difference in "a minor inconvenience" and an intrusion into your personal life. Your strawmen seem to be becoming more ridiculous as you create them. We're talking about the law of the land, the US Constitution, being applied by an over reaching federal government. Again the powers of the federal government are enumerated in that document.


An AYM 4 years ago

Honestly - yes Frog Prince, that does sound good. But it wasn't happening? I'm happy either way because movement in one direction means movement, and if people get angry enough that'll probably change. That makes me hopeful that it can change well. I just can't understand why everyone takes to the world with pitchforks and torches in their mind because someone actually did something. When something doesn't work, change is good.

And yes, people are stopping me Starr because all land is owned by someone, and that only changes hands with money. So at least you can rest easy knowing that the one thing I strive for with work and school is to make my happy exit.


An AYM 4 years ago

Then please tell me how Obamacare has had a giant horrific impact on your life, and that it's the majority?

I had an HMO before, I still do. My world has remained exactly the same - but if I didn't have insurance I would be pretty damn excited to have access to it.

How does this monstrously affect your lives?


The Frog Prince profile image

The Frog Prince 4 years ago from Arlington, TX Author

Read the bill and get a grasp on what is about to occur as more of the steps in Obamacare are implemented. Read a bit, research a lot and answer your own question. I do not want the federal government in between me and my health care providers. It is an intrusion. The cost of Obamacare is 3 times what Obama said they will be. If you don't think as those taxes are implemented that your bottom line is going to go down and health care costs will rise then you are living in a fairy tale.

The Frog


An AYM 4 years ago

I am going to read about things, and I try to read both sides of it. But I'm not going to read 2,700 pages of legal jargon.

That's the atrocious detriment it has dealt to your life - you think it might be expensive in the future? Do you think this will be somehow harmful to literally everyone? Or do you think it stands to sincerely benefit some individuals?


WillStarr profile image

WillStarr 4 years ago from Phoenix, Arizona

"And yes, people are stopping me Starr because all land is owned by someone, and that only changes hands with money."

We are free to pursue happiness, but we have no right to be happy. If you want that cave, save your money and buy it like everyone else, and stop whining about ownership.

We are never going to be the society of your dreams because it's not human nature, so make your choices and learn to live with it.


WillStarr profile image

WillStarr 4 years ago from Phoenix, Arizona

When the majority of people don't want fire and police protection, you might have a point. The majority of Americans do despise Obamacare and want it repealed.

BTW, yes, the feds ought to get clear out of education, because ever since they got in, it has gone downhill. When education worked in America, it was run by moms and dads at a local level, not by faceless bureaucrats.


An AYM 4 years ago

If you had managed to read to the end of that post you would have seen that I said I am already doing that. I work full time and go to school full time for that exact reason.

How do you keep missing the point so hard? The point is freedom as a concept! You acted like this is an issue of freedom - that THAT'S the problem, yet right here you say the problem is that most American's don't like Obamacare. You just quite literally paralleled Freedom as equaling Popular-Opinion.

The only one thing I want is for you to admit that this isn't an issue of freedom. You just don't like it for whatever your personal reasons are - and that's cool, we all have opinions - just stop acting like it's some noble quest for the heart of america. Justice, freedom, yay slogans!

And yeah, I'm with you on education.


WillStarr profile image

WillStarr 4 years ago from Phoenix, Arizona

"You just quite literally paralleled Freedom as equaling Popular-Opinion."

And you have developed quite a knack of putting words in your opponent's mouth.


An AYM 4 years ago

"When the majority of people don't want fire and police protection, you might have a point. The majority of Americans do despise Obamacare and want it repealed." is quite literally out of your mouth/fingers.

That Police and fire protection - while lovely - are another expense that you don't ask for that also dictates some portion of your life, denotes it as also contrary to the notion of "Freedom". Therefore it's not a big jump to point out that you just said that they're okay because the majority opinion favors it. Hence the Freedom and Popular-Opinion parallel.

I'm not putting words in your mouth, I'm connecting the dots that came out of your mouth and pointing out the frustrating nature of them.

I just want you to be honest that it isn't an issue of freedom but that it's your personal opinion. I, extremely consistently, see people either hate or praise an issue based on a fictituous backbone of "Freedom" without seeing the incredibly obvious fact that a lot of good things in America aren't necessarily supportive of freedom.

But I suppose that's how it goes because we perceive freedom as just whatever poses the most benefit to us as an individual.

I have to go off to work, but I have enjoyed arguing and for that I thank you.


WillStarr profile image

WillStarr 4 years ago from Phoenix, Arizona

"That Police and fire protection - while lovely - are another expense that you don't ask for that also dictates some portion of your life, denotes it as also contrary to the notion of "Freedom"."

But we do ask for both and willingly pay for them both, as necessary protections.

Obamacare is none of the above, and is clearly unconstitutional despite the shockingly wrong judgment of the SCOTUS.

In any case, it's a huge new tax burden on all of us, making Obama a liar.


TexasLadyJuanita profile image

TexasLadyJuanita 4 years ago from Kemah, TX

Wow! My eyes are much better today - a lot written here since I added a small comment. Yes Frog Prince, you are right - they can't stand for me to disagree with their policies, and they call me racist so the dummies will call me racist.

I too ended the conversation day before yesterday, but after reading have a comment in general: The Ideal of Utopia is very Christian, and we are promised that in eternity. The distinction is this, Utopia on eing arth is impossible because all men have a sin nature. When countries go through violent civil wars (except us), as in the Middle East, the citizens who wanted their ideal of "democracy" were sincere, but unorganized. The organized thugocracy was in the wings - very organized - the Muslim Brotherhood is in charge, and not those that were desperately doing an Arab Spring moment. Thanks to Obama's meddling, there will be Sharia Law Enforced within the month. This happens because people have a sin nature, and the nature of goodness is possible for those of us who wake up every day and choose goodness.

Even today, our Republic is the best thing on the planet, but it is eroding before our very eyes because the bad guys are pushing "democracy." We are a Constitutional Republic. If you actually read current events and compare them to the Constitution, you will see how far off course the current administration is taking us. In the Healthcare Bill is most of the government re-structure. Democracy is by definition, Mob Rule - and that leads to Marxism. Why? The Mob gets violent, and good people like you and I historically beg the government to take over and solve our problems for us - - - we are being pushed to our limits because those in power are trying as hard as they can to force us to violence. Why it isn't working? Because we are free minded. Those of us who are over 50 know our freedom, and are not the ignorant masses who will fall into the violence trap. These thugs in government are sooooo pissed, because they thought that we would turn violent already. We are not behaving the way the rest of the world behaves, and they just don't know what to do. The rumors of a False Flag to stop the elections may or may not be true, but the fact that the left is so determined to turn us into a socialist state, and due to what we have already caught them doing, makes that False Flag idea believable. I suggest you pray and convince everyone you know to not fall for violence or a False Flag event.

Romney is not perfect but a conservative Senate will be able to keep him on the good road. This is our only chance to keep the free Republic that you have taken for granted.

The enemies hold on you is one of "guilt." As long as they can let all the liberty ignorant across the border, and as long as they can keep poor people dumb and on the dole, AND AS LONG AS THEY CAN MAKE YOU FEEL GUILTY FOR BEING FREE when the rest of the world is falling apart - they will win this, and if they do, the world will fall into a depressing darkness. They don't call The Dark Ages, The Dark Ages for nothing. Read your history. What makes it all so different this time? There is nowhere for those of us who understand our freedom to go. There is no Galt's Gulch that I would give my right arm to find on earth. This is where I am different from the other Galt's Gulchers - I would live it here on earth if I could, but because of that sin nature, there is no paradise or Utopia on earth - it is not possible with so much sin nature uncontrolled with our Judeo-Christian values stomped in the ground - AND YOU CANNOT LEGISLATE IT INTO EXISTENCE (OR EVEN with an EXECUTIVE ORDER).

No, I will not arrive there until I am with the Lord. I can try to talk you out of your "democracy" that is socialism and has been proven for centuries that it doesn't work - but you are lost and do not want to be found. Unlike my good friend Dagny, I understand people better than she did. I have watched the decline of honor and goodness for so many years now, I just don't know why I can still barely believe that people will willfully choose the bad road. At least half of America do not cherish life, they are anti-life for sure.


TexasLadyJuanita profile image

TexasLadyJuanita 4 years ago from Kemah, TX

Sorry for the bad typing. I think you know the words that are typed wrong.


poetvix profile image

poetvix 4 years ago from Gone from Texas but still in the south. Surrounded by God's country.

An AYM –

“They waste our money because we want everything… because we froth at the mouth for the military like it's important.”

In your comments to another, Will, I think, you talk about such wastes as police and fire. OK. So, by your own logic the fire department is a waste. Be sure to send them a memo that when where you live catches on fire not to come. Be sure to tell the cops when you are held up, or God forbid whatever crime happens to you, (see they are on the upswing too) that you don’t want them to be there for you, that their sacrifice to Americans is but a waste. Be sure to tell all those underpaid, hard working Americans that they are a waste.

Next time an American soldier, (you know the ones that tend to be very young men that are giving up the American party lifestyle so they can misguidedly, according to you, protect the ideal of freedom and the free Americans they love), dies protecting freedom, be sure you sent him or her a memo letting them know your feelings on it. You see they still die to this day so you can come on web sites like this one and use your right to the freedom of speech they died protecting. My relatives, my ancestors, served and some died so that you could enjoy that right. On behalf of them all, thanks for the respect you show those who fought and died for you.

You bring up the Native Americans, of which I am one. My great grandmother came straight off the reservation. You see she thought America was a great place. She knew her history and she knew her ancestors were slaughtered by white Europeans. She also knew they were all dead and buried long before she was born. She knew that this was a country where a dirt poor reservation girl could work hard and achieve a higher standard of living, could be free to make the world around her a better place. She knew because she did it. She knew she was able to do it because this had become a true land of freedom where women could succeed. Did she ever experience discrimination in her life in the backwoods of MS as a red woman married to white man? You bet she did. She didn’t whine about it. She overcame it. That is the spirit of America. An America that included her just as it includes me now and you.

I think she would be offended by your comments as am I. You bring up old history to prove that America now is evil. There are bad things in the history of our nation. Guess what. There are bad things in the history of all nations. Long before the “white man” put the Choctaw on a reservation the Chickasaw had raided, slaughtered and taken their women as slaves. If you want to use history as a lame argument to support the whinny, leftist, anti-America mess you are spouting, LEARN IT.

You state to multiple hubbers in this thread that you will not read the Affordable Health Care Act. You wrote something to the effect that it’s too long and full of legalese. As a teacher, I’m here to tell you, do your homework. Someone old enough to go to college and have a job where he works on a computer all day should not have to be told that. It’s a primary source by the way. You keep driveling things from secondary sources which is considerd inferior form, as it were. You should know that by now. You see, most of the people on this thread have read it. They are very well educated. They worked hard over years studying the things they are talking about. In fact, I suspect, they are paying now for thousands to go to college so like you¸ they can not read one of the most important pieces of legislation affecting our nation. College in California is expensive. If you have ever taken a single dime of financial aid to get that computer job you have, you are benefiting off the exact same systems that you are complaining about and the hard work of the loyal Americans who paid into the system so you could, including those found here.

In conclusion, you state “I think the shame is that they don't teach us this, and that you have to go looking through books yourself.” Welcome to higher education and being a responsible American citizen. It’s called learning. The goal of education is not to dump information into your brain but rather to teach you to research and find information for yourself, to be able to evaluate said information and form a reasonably correct determination of its validity or lack thereof, and then, critically analyze it to use it as a tool to form your own opinions. If nothing else, your arguments here have proven that the American educational system has grossly failed you in that regard by your own admission that you are not willing to put in the effort but rather expect it all to just be spoon fed to you as it was back in Kindergarten.

You keep going off about the hypocrisy of the American system, yet you are part of it. You benefit from it just as do all the rest of us. Guess what. It goes on in all nations and has since the dawn of time. People are not perfect but rather than harping on all the problems of the past in an effort to divide a free people it makes much for sense to suck it up and work to solve the real problems facing the nation such as the very real assaults on the Constitution, that little document that guarantees you are free to speak and we are free to own guns contrary to your statement that, “We think we have a right to guns because we have access to them.” Again, I say…READ. LEARN YOUR HISTORY AND THE DOCUMENT THAT ENSURES YOU CAN CONTINUE TO RANT, not just the parts that support your arguments.


WillStarr profile image

WillStarr 4 years ago from Phoenix, Arizona

In defense of smart, young liberals, let it be noted that most mature to the point that they can see that their liberalism was based on emotion and not logic. That's why most smart, young liberals become conservatives with age and wisdom, so give them time.

The stupid liberals, on the other hand, never wise up and never mature either, so don't bother with them. You're wasting your time.


The Frog Prince profile image

The Frog Prince 4 years ago from Arlington, TX Author

poetvix - It is often obvious to me that people like AYM have never read the US Constitution as they go along spouting off about the ills of the nation. Many of our present ills stem from allowing our politicians to stray so far away from the guiding principles of the law of our land. A good example is the military. Many yound people, or older people for that matter, have no clue that the primary role of the federal government outlined in the US Consitution revolves around the military and our defense.

You're right though. Rather than study history the younger generation and uneducated in the masses want to be spoon fed information. They then become a propagandist's dream. The likes of Obama and his type are thrilled. They are like putty in his hands. Just say it and it becomes so.

The Frog


TexasLadyJuanita profile image

TexasLadyJuanita 4 years ago from Kemah, TX

WillStarr, my son is 33. He and his wife are conservative. We are in the Houston burbs. Most of their friends are liberal and in their 30's. My son talks to them and they, like children, want what they want, and they want it now. I don't think that rule that once they get on in life they turn Conservative is working any more. But hope springs eternal . . . My blood pressure is not raging like day before yesterday on this hub. Today, my heart is heavy with the weight of what is to be so up in the air.

I did notice something . . . or did I? . . . does it seem that the dark powers that be have pulled the plug from under Obama? So many liberals badmouthing him and calling him a liar for example. OR did they decide to just not spend the $$ on Obama because they have something more sinister in mind?


The Frog Prince profile image

The Frog Prince 4 years ago from Arlington, TX Author

Will - Here's a great video to explain the liberal brain :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4SsftsZD6Vg&feature...

The Frog


WillStarr profile image

WillStarr 4 years ago from Phoenix, Arizona

"I did notice something . . . or did I? . . . does it seem that the dark powers that be have pulled the plug from under Obama? So many liberals badmouthing him and calling him a liar for example. OR did they decide to just not spend the $$ on Obama because they have something more sinister in mind?"

Obama has committed the ultimate political sin...he has become boring. Gone are the Greek columns and leg thrills. Gone are the fainting women. He is yesterday's rock star, and unless I miss my guess, he will lose in November.


TexasLadyJuanita profile image

TexasLadyJuanita 4 years ago from Kemah, TX

Frog Prince: BUhahahahahahahahahahahaha, Seriously, LOL!


WillStarr profile image

WillStarr 4 years ago from Phoenix, Arizona

That was funny, Jim!


The Frog Prince profile image

The Frog Prince 4 years ago from Arlington, TX Author

A little truth, disguised as humor, is sometimes good medicine :)


poetvix profile image

poetvix 4 years ago from Gone from Texas but still in the south. Surrounded by God's country.

Sir Frog - Thanks for writing this wonderful article that for me, on top of being ten kinds of cool and correct, has also been fascinating from a behavioral science perspective. I feel the comments here illustrate the basic components that make up the psychological mind set, the fundamental differences between the left and the right. I have become so enamored with this little theory of mine that I would like your permission to quote them in a hub I would like to write illustrating further and with great detail and specificity exactly what I am contending.

Can I have your permission to quote extensively from this fine piece, more specifically from the coments? Can I, can I, pleaseeeeeeeeee???? :)

Oh, and I just had to share it on Facebook with all my other friends who are also very interested such such ideas.


34th Bomb Group profile image

34th Bomb Group 4 years ago from Western New York State

WAY back up this thread I read a young woman commend Obama on his straightening out our place in the World. Apparently, everyone who has gone before the Anointed One f'd it up and only HE our SAVIOR has made peace with the world.

I want to gag. NO AMERICAN bows to foreign despots and NO ONE TOUCHES the Queen of England. In those two instances the clear line is drawn between those who know how to do things and those who do not.

One other point - RETURNING WINSTON CHURCHILL??? What a kick in the teeth to the British.

You need to wrap your head around world affairs darlin' before you state your opinions as truth and treat the rest of us like a bunch of bozos.

And I don't give a shit about your drug addled husband.

Finally, clean up your grammar and learn how to spell.


The Frog Prince profile image

The Frog Prince 4 years ago from Arlington, TX Author

poetvix - You have my permission to use an literary license you find necessary in performing your civic duty :)

34th - We'e known each other for a long time. I keep advising every citizen of this nation to go and see 2016, Obama's America to gain an understanding of his dislike of this nation and our institutions. They owe it to themselves and their children and future generations.

The Frog


WillStarr profile image

WillStarr 4 years ago from Phoenix, Arizona

I too saw 2016, and all of a sudden, all of Obama's weird decisions make sense if he is truly living his father's dream, which was to cripple countries like the US, Israel, and the UK. It also explains why the POTUS is now bowing to royalty.


poetvix profile image

poetvix 4 years ago from Gone from Texas but still in the south. Surrounded by God's country.

Sir Frog - You made my day :)! Ooo, project. Can't you just see my jumping up and down in glee. This is going to take a bit. But, man, talk about something that could get juicy. THANK YOU!

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