What Now? The Aftermath of Same-Sex/Gay Marriage Rights

This is likely the 149th time you've seen, read about, or listened to someone esle's opinion on the topic of Gay rights and same-sex marriage. Let's start by saying I'm no stranger to this topic though. My dad falls into 2 of the LGBT categories. He is a transgender (male to female) who prefers women. It's no secret this is a hot-button topic and I have a lot to say about it from various perspectives:

  • Does it have anything to do with pedophilia?
  • Should Christians love or hate the sinner?
  • Is this reason for celebration?
  • What are the effects?
  • Is it love?
  • What is politically correct?
  • What's next on the agenda?

At root, this isn’t just about our laws; this is about who we are as a people. This is about whether we value one another – whether we embrace our differences rather than allowing them to become a source of animus.

~Democrat, Alcee Hastings

The Pedophilia Connection

Does the comparison of pedophilia to homosexuality have a leg to stand on? Or any justification? Really, this is my only concern coming from a mental health background.

Here is how some are making the connection:

  1. Both are classified as a "sexual orientation" in the medical community.
  2. There is proof that both are born with these desires.
  3. Both have been largely known and nothing new for other countries and throughout our history.
  4. Attempting to control or eliminate the urges are without success.

The only argument that makes people feel better is that pedophilia is against the law. But wait? So was same-sex marriage. At one time (until the 1970's) homosexuality was in the DSM (Diagnostic Book or Mental Illness) and listed as a mental illness. Transgender recently went from Gender Identity Disorder to Gender Dysphoria. Currently Pedophilia is being reconsidered as well.

Ever seen the show "16 and Pregnant"? It is a very good case for pedophiles that kids are having, and consenting to, sex before age 18. Laws change and many times with or without majority approval. We could see a few heartfelt cases in the media and society begins to change it's views.

Another concern: "In 1998 The APA (American Psychological Association - the bigwigs in psychology) issued a report claiming “that the ‘negative potential’ of adult sex with children was ‘overstated’ and that ‘the vast majority of both men and women reported no negative sexual effects from childhood sexual abuse experiences.” This isn't a good finding!

Even Christians are torn. Love or hate the sinner?

I haven't seen so much disagreement between one single group ever, because many Christians are talking about it but many accept while others are truly outraged. Christians are torn whether to choose love and love the sinner or stand by their convictions and be called out for their hatred. You could recite passages until you're blue in the face but it boils down to nothing more than opinion anyway.

One of my favorite perspectives out there (and I've been reading, rehashing this amongst my peers, and listening to a lot) is that Christians are partly to blame. They consist of a large and strong group within our country and yet they've been a very silent majority for years. Love doesn't seem to be the answer because neither love nor hate has led to much success. People who speak up are probably in a better position for being a catalyst to change.

There's a big conundrum on whether homosexuality IS IN FACT a real sin. It is mentioned among other sins, but does that truly mean anything at all? Everyone sins how is this any different? One argument is that no groups advocate or celebrate divorce in the way homosexuality is celebrated. Nor is thievery and murder or swindling largely celebrated by a massive body of American citizens. To celebrate sin is where many have arguably gone astray. To love them and still remain quiet does not protect or advocate the word of God in which they are called to do.

Is This Reason For Celebration?

Actually, this is a trick question. Let me give you a personal account. A few days before 4th of July and few days after the same-sex marriage ruling, I took my 7 yr. old daughter to her swim class. Since it was nearly 4th of July I put her in a red, white, and blue swimsuit. When we got there, she was literally swimming in a sea of rainbows. Nearly all of the CHILDREN were wearing rainbow suits of some fashion.

I'm not really sure, but as a parent I do not celebrate sexuality with my 7 yr. old daughter. Did we forget that this is a sexual orientation, not an American celebration? You may strongly agree with the decision, but plastering it on your child is kind of icky. OK maybe that's just me but heck I'm a classy lady so parents out there class it up. Seriously! I've got nothing against kids wearing rainbows but all at once- it's obviously a political statement of sexuality.If you must celebrate, please consider this is sexuality, not a popularity contest.

Please note: As I write this, there's a "Warning" on this article as being deemed for an adult audience through automatic content filters. Umm, yes it's not a topic for kids!

Some are quietly celebrating this and others have taken to the extreme of things and had some pretty crazy festivals.

Facebook data scientists found that users were more likely to adopt the equal-sign icon if they saw multiple friends doing so. The more friends they saw, the more likely they were to change it. Social influence was more a factor than religion, politics, or age.

What are the effects of this decision/ruling?

This is a loaded question. I don't anyone knows the answer quite yet and this is yet another perspective to explore. Whether or not science and psychologists or sociologists decide to further studies or provide validity to already existing studies, we will not know an unbias answer.

Homosexuals lifestyle changes that result from past trauma like molestation or rape need to be addressed. Sadly, they never will receive help because gay rights is largely accepted now regardless how one arrived there (born with it or not). We simply don't question anything anymore because acceptance is deemed morally superior.

Other harm addresses the fact that the consensus is: "The College itself has maintained that a significant body of research has demonstrated that “same-sex marriage deliberately deprives the child of a mother or a father, and is therefore harmful.

Truth is we don't know the consequences yet from kids growing up with same-sex parents. The data isn't out there and it's a fairly new phenomena. In the field of sociology we typically learn after the fact, some years down the road- about 30 years later- what the effects of social shifts are. If love is indeed love then we should see no effect which would be no rise in the youth population being gay nor other ill effects or a rise in any mental illness. These kids should be well-adjusted individuals.

What is love?

No question about it. Gays deserve love! That is a human right. Whatever your beliefs are- Christians even agree this is a fundamental right and states as much in the Bible that ALL should be loved. I think the issue at hand is the institution of marriage and can people be loved without being "accepted"? Is marriage sacred and exclusive to the Christian definition of one man/ one woman? That's really where the various perspectives do not align.

Gays would like the same rights, which include 1,000+, that heterosexuals enjoy as a married union. I wonder if they were granted those rights in a civil union they would have needed to claim "marriage". That is yet another perspective. Was there an underlying hostility that led some gays to impede on what Christians held sacred? Again, not sure. If the fight for same-sex marriage rights was purely done in love and equal rights, and not other agendas (political or spiteful), then we're on a positive path.

What's Next?

  • We will see other groups begin to assert themselves for rights. Some warranted, others not. This comes with the territory for any minority victory.
  • We will need additional legislation to protect what used to be protected (such as religious rights).
  • Many things that were thought to be exclusive to one group, etc may or may not be. There are a few upheavals to go through before things settle down from this decision/ruling.
  • Gays will continue to fight for rights and be able to enjoy the marriage rights they were afforded.
  • We may or may not see a larger split in the country with various views.

How to be Politically Correct

Speaking up is important- whether you are for or against this, it is OK to voice an opinion. It is not OK to call names or spread true hatred or threaten violence. It's OK to have questions. Minority groups have spread hate as much as the majority. But it's not OK whether you are the majority or minority.

Good people get trapped by the politically correct beast at times and believe we'll be labeled as "haters" and "monster judgers". I'm a passionate person and as many people who love me there are those who love to hate me. But since I've decided to speak up I've gained more respect than not. There's nothing wrong with being true to yourself and it shows favorably.Being a "black sheep" doesn't make you politically incorrect.

You don't have to engage in any conversation or action whether you are for or against something. However, I'm me so I've got to suggest you speak up. I don't think silence, apathy, or avoidance has ever been the position of our ancestors who made this country great. Politics isn't popular so people tend to keep it to themselves. Minority groups tend to speak up more than the majority as noted in general polls. This is exactly what this country doesn't need.

I've got a personal handle on the topic too. I watched my dad evolve from being my dad to a transgender lesbian. It was harmful to our family leading to divorce. My hope is that since LGBT are free to marry, there will be no false starts in families that would otherwise end due to a LGBT issue of moving onto another life as what happened in my case.

The president's view on gay marriage is evolving

More by this Author


Education fundoos profile image

Education fundoos 15 months ago

I don't know whether gay marriage is right or wrong? but why should we care about it? If someone believe that gay marriage is a sin and god will punish them... why it worries others who are not gay? it's not that they are going to be punished with them... shouldn't we be cool about it?

Rodric29 profile image

Rodric29 15 months ago from Phoenix, Arizona

I enjoyed reading this article and agree with all of your points. I wanted to write an article like this, but it always turned into something else.

I too am a psychology degree holder and my contention is that the psychological effects of being reared in a same-gender parent home will be negative for society as it is proving to be the case in Sweden after only ten years.

Marriages are failing in America, and now the Courts have handed the institution another tool to kill itself.

As a person who was molested as a youth myself, I had to deal with the psychological scars of that abuse and am still dealing with it.

If it wasn't for my church, I would be so sexually confused. By confused, I mean not know which sex to choose to like. When both sexes are an option, I chose the fair sex naturall. I had to temper any desire to eperiment with eh same gender having been molested at 4 uears old and 13 years old by pedophiles.

Luckily, I am on a long road to recovery through my faith in Jesus Christ.

I KNOW that there are people out there who are confused and need help with their sexuality and are being disserviced by this homosexual revolution that is claiming equal to the Blacks Civil Rights Movement.

All of us at some point attracted to the same sex, which is why we pick friends from our own gender. It becomes homosexual when we introduce sex into the attraction and act on it.

People need to know that there is recovery from rape and molestation that does not involve having to explore same-gender feelings and attractions.

We could wait a generation and see the dysfunction that will occur or we could open our eyes and help people who are confused about gender and sexuality before they experiment to the point of no return.

I do believe that sexuality can be adjusted for many people. I also believe that some people are born with the disposition towards same gender attraction and a rape or molestation mutates that disposition into a sexual attraction.

ALL the gay people I have had conversations with have had a negative sexual experience that triggered their desire for the same sex. It is not that homosexual sex feels bad. If it did, no one would want to do it.

I trust that there are some same gender attracted person out there who chose a gay lifesytle without the horrid experience. I have yet to hear about it.

For most gay men I believe it is about sex. For most socially revealed gay men, it may be about an emotional need to seek men for comfort and due to trauma the comfort is in the form of sex.

There are givers and receivers in gay relationships. There is usually a masculine and a feminine.

There are the exceptions of course, but the psychological need to have a feminine is a telling indication that homosexuality is not 100% about the same gender but partly behavioral roles.

To be personal, I struggled with gender identity and same gender attraction because I was told I was gay and my childhood include emotionally abusive people.

I was attacked to girls and them women, but because of my experiences I was also aware of men. The problem was, my molestations were so terrible that a sexual attraction to men was revulting, but I did seek emotional connetions that would have been detrimental if my church had not stepped in to show me how to have a proper relationship with a man that you loved.

It is important for me to learn that because I have three sons. I would be very dark towards someone who tried to harm my sons the way I was harmed.

I teach my sons to respect and cherish women and to love thier friends. I teach them it is okay to cry when your feelings hurt and not okay to overpower people just because you can.

I also teach them that sex outside of marriage in any form is a sin, which includes homosexual sex. I asked my kids about their feelings and have told them the same thing my mother told me;

i will love them not matter what.

I have four girls, three living. I let them talk about what they like. One of my kids came to me with questions about sexuality.

I told the child that God gives us weakness so that we can turn to Him and overcome. It helped. I don't think I will be a grandparent soon!

Anyway... Voted up and awesome!!!

WillStarr profile image

WillStarr 15 months ago from Phoenix, Arizona

Homosexuality was removed from the list on mental illnesses in 1974, not because science made a discovery, but purely for political reasons.

"According to the American Psychiatric Association, until 1974 homosexuality was a mental illness. Freud had alluded to homosexuality numerous times in his writings, and had concluded that paranoia and homosexuality were inseparable. Other psychiatrists wrote copiously on the subject, and homosexuality was “treated” on a wide basis. There was little or no suggestion within the psychiatric community that homosexuality might be conceptualized as anything other than a mental illness that needed to be treated. And, of course, homosexuality was listed as a mental illness in DSM-II. (The DSM – Diagnostic and Statistical Manual – is the APA’s standard classification of their so-called mental disorders, and is used by many mental health workers in the USA and other countries.)

Then in 1970 gay activists protested against the APA convention in San Francisco. These scenes were repeated in 1971, and as people came out of the “closet” and felt empowered politically and socially, the APA directorate became increasingly uncomfortable with their stance. In 1973 the APA’s nomenclature task force recommended that homosexuality be declared normal. The trustees were not prepared to go that far, but they did vote to remove homosexuality from the list of mental illnesses by a vote of 13 to 0, with 2 abstentions. This decision was confirmed by a vote of the APA membership, and homosexuality was no longer listed in the seventh edition of DSM-II, which was issued in 1974.

What’s noteworthy about this is that the removal of homosexuality from the list of mental illnesses was not triggered by some scientific breakthrough. There was no new fact or set of facts that stimulated this major change."

It was removed because the homosexual lobby put enormous pressure on the APA, and now organizations like NAMBLA are following their example in order to have pedophilia legitimized as well. Their argument is that children also have the right to enjoy sex.

This is how a society plunges in the the pits of decadence.

Brie Hoffman profile image

Brie Hoffman 15 months ago from Manhattan

Fabulous Article voted up and shared!

izettl profile image

izettl 15 months ago from The Great Northwest Author

Yes, I completely agree Will. My viewpoint is purely coming from a mental health background. As a Christian I can see the various arguments for or against. I am for love, if this decision results in love. However, we don't know any of the effects yet.

For those who don't know why it is of any concern to anybody NOT gay, well everything concerning our community is of concern. Anything that was considered a mental illness and now isn't (because of politics and changing social views-not science) is on my social radar.

parrster profile image

parrster 15 months ago from Oz

Well conceived and presented article. Many quotable parts, but I particularly liked "We simply don't question anything anymore because acceptance is deemed morally superior." The only caveat I would add to that is, the only thing society is questioning is the morally superior. Good is labelled evil, and evil good.

WillStarr profile image

WillStarr 15 months ago from Phoenix, Arizona

We are seeing the overthrow of traditional America, including the Christianity that has been the national glue holding us together all these years. This is not about homosexuality at all. This is a war on Christianity and Christians.

Brie Hoffman profile image

Brie Hoffman 15 months ago from Manhattan

Boy, you said it WillStarr!

Flipsgeraldine profile image

Flipsgeraldine 15 months ago from Houston, Texas

Love this article filled with controversy and well written. Just as a side note while I appreciate all of the above comments, we are forgetting the real reason behind the court's ruling and that is civil rights of a particular sexual oriented group of people. The decision has nothing to do with religious belief or individual concept of what is right or wrong. It is about fairness to all. Anyone's sexual preference is between that person and his or her God. It is only when one is penalize socially and legally for this preference that the conflict arises. By the way, the facts about homosexuality speaks for themselves and no amount of protest for or against can eliminate what is factual.

TedWritesStuff profile image

TedWritesStuff 15 months ago from The World

Said perfectly..in video form.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X-YCdcnf_P8

savvydating profile image

savvydating 15 months ago

My understanding is that scientists have done quite a lot of research on the brains of gays and lesbians, notwithstanding the political reasons for APA's having changed their recommendation back in 1973.

My point is that ongoing scientific research has discovered that the brains of gays are similar to the brains of female heterosexuals, (in many areas) thus the attraction to men. The same goes for lesbians.

Anyway, my point is that I do not buy the idea of, "Love the sinner, not the sin." Excuse me?? Who are we to stand in judgement of someone who is has no attraction to the opposite sex, but still has normal sexual desires? The sin v. sinner phrase basically suggests, "It's OK if you are Gay, but you are not allowed to have sex. Not ever."

I don't think so.

We have no right to suggest that another human being must forego what is otherwise deemed a healthy expression of being a human being. We are all sexual creatures, with the exception of a small minority who are asexual.

Seriously. What if someone told you and I that we are no longer allowed to have sex unless we want to be deemed "a sinner? Well...that just wouldn't fly.

As for pedophiles---that's a whole different story. Their sexuality is not a healthy expression of anything and has nothing to do with adult same sex attraction. Furthermore, their actions do hurt children--very much.

Long story short, I do no see a slippery slope problem in this particular case. If anything, children of same-sex parents can now feel as "legitimate" as their heterosexual friends. Furthermore, I read the entire Supreme Court ruling in full. They were careful to state that religious groups are to be respected for their beliefs.

As always, good hub article here. I know these maters are close to your heart because of your father and your educational background. I've always appreciated your viewpoints. Voting interesting.

Kylyssa profile image

Kylyssa 15 months ago from Overlooking a meadow near Grand Rapids, Michigan, USA

I'm sorry your parents' handling of your father's gender identity has scarred you so much. From what I've read, your parents, most especially your father, behaved like insecure and immature people. I suspect there would have been other family issues had your father decided to conceal his inner self from you forever to try to maintain your comfort.

You've obviously been hurt by bad parenting. However, it's no excuse to compare marriage between consenting adults to pedophilia. There are no relationships between consenting adults in pedophilia; there is an adult pedophile and a child victim. Also, the majority of pedophiles are heterosexual, a fact you seem to have left out of your editorial. Researcher Carole Jenny found, in a 1994 study, that “a child’s risk of being molested by his or her relative’s heterosexual partner is 100 times greater than by someone who might be identified as homosexual.” Again and again, it's been shown far more pedophiles are heterosexual rather than gay. There's no slope, slippery or not, going from relationships between consenting adults and abuse by adults of people who are not adults or animals who are incapable of consenting. Marriage equality cannot and will not lead to legitimizing pedophilia or bestiality.

I was married to a gay man in denial. Denying who he was intensified his worst characteristics and made his life and mine hell. Now, when he's living honestly, he's a much happier, nicer man. I love him enough that I'd much rather he be who he really is rather than hiding it to make other people more comfortable. It would absolutely break my heart if he were forced to be separated from his beloved when either of them were dying. I love him enough to be sad for his sadness and glad for his happiness. I love my ex-husband enough that I want his life to be full of joy even if I don't fit into his life like I once did. I love him like a brother rather than like a lover now. The relationship has changed but the presence of love has not. You and your father chose not to recognize the love between you that presumably still existed before she totally alienated you.

I'm immensely grateful my ex and I were able to remember the love through it all. We were fortunate that we were both adults. It was still a very difficult transition to make and I do feel a great deal of sympathy for a child going through an equally difficult transition with an adult she loves who handled it so far from gracefully.

What, exactly would you get out of reversing of marriage equality? Would it make you happier knowing other people who love each other and are committed to each other could be legally denied access to their loved ones in the hospital? Would you get some kind of kick knowing some parents couldn't legally adopt their spouses' children, leaving those children to the foster care system should the biological parent die? I'm sure revenge has occurred to you but it's irrational to wish revenge on every person who loves someone of the same gender and and all those who love them just because your dad grossly mishandled parenting you. If you think about it, you'll realize there was no guidebook or well-traveled path to follow for that kind of transition.

People celebrating the human rights ruling aren't celebrating sex, but celebrating equal treatment under the law of all relationships between consenting adults. My partner of over eight years and I are both cis-gendered and we're of opposite sexes. Our relationship isn't about sex, although we do have it. Something we do for mere minutes a day does not make up the entirety or even the majority of our relationship. If your romantic relationship or marriage is only about sex, a counselor might be able to help you with it.

Brie Hoffman profile image

Brie Hoffman 15 months ago from Manhattan

Are we now going to see Liar's Rights or Adulterer's Right's? Right's should not be based upon actions but upon things that are unchangeable like color or national origin etc. Where are my rights as a single, celibate person? Why don't I get special tax incentives?

izettl profile image

izettl 14 months ago from The Great Northwest Author

Thank you Parrster.

@Flips you are correct. If it's about equality then we're in trouble because equality now doesn't mean the same thing as it did years ago. I also think there's a bit of spite in what equality means today.

Thanks Ted, excellent video reference.

@savvy dating, no there's no solid evidence. Other countries have done more research on it than we have including twin studies which show about 11% similarities between twins (not born and raised together) so yes I believe there's a small biological only factor but as small as if someone was born as a hermaphrodite.

You do know that brain changes can occur from environment right? That would totally disprove your point. Sorry. Those in isolation eventually have biolocial and chemical changes in the brain- there's a number of examples but not wasting my time with it. You get the point.

If you want to discuss science, there is more proof of pedophiles and serial killers are "born with it" than gays. again, I'm sorry.

Just because people do it or want to doesn't mean it's natural. Even you mentioned homosexuality was once a mental illness and the only thing changed was society perspective. That can change for anything we deem "awful" right now. All arguments made for gays are also the same made for pedophiles: Immigrants coming into our country from south of the border regularly take on 12 yr old mates.

Can Asexuals marry themselves to get tax incentives and rights?

izettl profile image

izettl 14 months ago from The Great Northwest Author

Thanks Rodric29 for sharing your story. I have heard others similar to this. Again, thanks for your transparency on this topic.

Kylyssa~ first, thank you for your condescending comment- it's telling of who you are and why I kind of automatically discounted your comment from the beginning. But all of that aside. marriage was created and founded on one man one woman notion. Why couldn't the gays found and start another institution and get legal rights and benefits for their own union?

When I first wrote about my dad and my experience, you have no idea how many wives and children (adult and young) who wrote into me how it damaged them. I'm very resilient but just because I got over this (and I have) doesn't;'t mean I won't be a voice to all the others who aren't over it. You were also an adult going through your break up with your gay ex. How do you suppose a kid deals with that? It hurts others- not just me. You seem to be stuck in your story, not the story of others. I'm glad you love your gay ex but you forgot to mention the anger or are you still in denial? I represent those that wrote to me about their experiences, not just myself as you do. This wasn't just "my dad", my story Is a representation of many others.

Ky, what's the difference between bestiality, pedophilia, and gays. Society's changing and accepting behavior that ALL should have equal rights. All Ky! That's for everyone! And laws change to reflect changing society and perspective. At one time gay was a mental illness and why is it no longer? Changing perspective of society. And accepting an weak society. Kids are old enough to be left alone at home beginning at 6 in some states and no guidance in other states so they can be left alone but not consent to sex? I can already see the future arguments pedophiles will use in their favor. Teens are having sex, why not with an adult who is more responsible. And are we talking pedophiles or child molesters cause they are different. Only a changing perspective in society is how far we are from pedophilia and bestiality (which is largely accepted in Mexico where we are welcoming immigrants from.

Kylyssa profile image

Kylyssa 14 months ago from Overlooking a meadow near Grand Rapids, Michigan, USA

The gigantic differences between child rape and marriage between consenting adults are consent and the adult capacity to give consent. Marriage between consenting adults isn't in any way equivalent to rape of any kind. I should know; I've been married and I've been raped. They're nothing alike.

I apologize if my previous comment was condescending. I was very, very angry when I wrote it. It makes me angry when people minimize and dismiss what happened to me and many others like me by equating it with people in consensual, loving relationships. It makes me furious when they hold up child molestation on their political flag to try to associate something unrelated with it to ride on the coattails of its horror. You are right about one thing; child molestation causes wounds that last a lifetime. Your words poked at my wounds by implying consent is completely unimportant to the issue and I lashed back. Consent is everything. Only adults have the capacity to consent to sex with adults. I'm baffled that you find consent completely unimportant.

It also angered me that you believe marriage to only be about sex. I value love over sex in marriage and it's one of my core beliefs. Brides don't usually promise to have sex and make heirs on the altar and neither do grooms. They pledge to love one another and take care of each other, to raise their children with love. Your attack on marriage and the deeply held belief myself and many others hold that that marriage is about love, devotion, mutual support, and family was also very upsetting. I find it tawdry and gross when people claim marriage is just a sex and reproduction thing, taking love, consent, and devotion out of the issue.

I'm sorry no one was there for you when your dad deserted you and your mom and went off to have a sex change when you were small. Any parent who deserts their children to find himself or herself before those children are grown is a pretty rotten human being. The truth is that some human beings are very selfish and some of them are parents. You got a really raw deal. No parent should desert a daughter for the sort of reason your dad left.

Plenty of people find themselves while staying right where they are. Your dad should have probably done a million things differently and should have tried to take care of you emotionally and financially, let you know the love still existed and stayed in your life at least until you were an adult.

As I mentioned, I wasn't a little child when going through my divorce as you were when going through your dad's sex change and desertion, so I get why you had no ability to understand what was going on or to hold onto any love you might have had. Both my parents deserted me, but it wasn't until I was a teen.

My dad's secret quirk was being a conservative Cold War survivalist. So I know a great deal about having a dad with a secret and a terrifying side I could never, ever understand or feel safe with. I had to keep utterly secret everything that occurred in our household; it was forbidden to discuss with outsiders (anyone outside our nuclear family) even things it makes no sense to me now to hide. The talk about killing and about trying to survive anarchy and bombing was very upsetting as a small child and there was no one outside the craziness to turn to. So I understand a little about being a small child keeping frightening secrets and being afraid of my dad. And because he taught me to be afraid of everything and to hate everything I was afraid of, when a family acquaintance touched me (and much more than once) where he ought not to, I kept that secret, too, because I believed my attacker would murder my sister, brother, mother, and father just as tortuously as he said he would. Daddy taught me a lot of men were deadly predators so I believed it was true. I was a child and took my dad's every word as gospel. But I loved my dad and I still love him although he isn't here to feel it anymore. His frightening secret self made things very confusing.

It took years to forgive my parents for running away, for screwing me out of college completely paid for by scholarships because the forms were too much trouble to fill out before they left. It took years to forgive them for the bout of homelessness and all the things that happened to me during that time that happened because they ran away. It took years to forgive them for endangering me in dozens of ways and for making me live a childhood with way too much fear in it. But I eventually did forgive them. There's forgiveness in the Bible, too, not just hate and judgment. You don't have to become an atheist to forgive people for being human, for making mistakes, and for making lousy parenting choices, but you do have to want to let go of your grudge.

I did have anger towards my ex, but never for being gay. I was angry because he lied and because he told me he didn't want me for reasons other than him not being sexually attracted to women. It would have been such a balm to know he didn't find me disgusting and repulsive and that it wasn't because I didn't get all of his dogs' hair off the baseboard in the kitchen. I was angry because, in his terror of discovery, he was controlling of me and wanted me to have no friends. I was angry because he wanted me to be a proper, conservative Christian 1950s housewife but have a full-time job on top of it while he was going about having boyfriends. But we got through it. We got over it. We've both found people who nurture us as we are. He's just as human as I am, and forgiveness and compassion are central to my beliefs and to his, too, because he's a Christian. He's a conservative Christian and there's still room in his beliefs for forgiveness.

I was the victim of a pedophile. I'm sure you think it warped me so I can't think and made me liberal somehow. But it gives me a perspective from which to say, men who rape children are nothing like gay people who love and cherish each other. The man who did those things to me never loved me or asked my permission. A six-year-old can't even give consent.

You don't think consent is important in this issue. You don't think adulthood is important in this issue. I've was raped as a child and then later as an adult teen. I never consented. Consent matters. Love isn't rape and it's sick to equate the two. I know what both love and rape are and they are nothing alike.

This issue is only about consent and adulthood and the choices that consenting human adults are allowed to make with each other. In a marriage, the parties involved must consent to it and they have to be adults to do so.

fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 14 months ago from Beautiful Upstate New York

I think I'm totally lost. Not even sure why I'm commenting. I like the author and enjoy her writing talents. This topic is not one of my favorites simply because (as smart as I am) all of this confuses me. (Forgive me)

I feel like this lone ranger, drifting, treading water, in the middle of the hugest of oceans.

I am not one to "judge" and surely not capable of "hating" a person or group, based on our "differences." I firmly embrace personal liberties and rights and hold tightly to the responsibilities and obligations we all have.

It does not effect me, my life nor that of my loved ones....who someone loves. I freely admit to not fully "understanding" the concepts involved in LGBT lifestyles. In fact, I don't even know why on earth it's referred to as a "LIFESTYLE?" My heterosexuality is NOT my lifestyle. It's merely my sexual identity and preference.

So there begins my confusion. (I do not spend a whole lot of time & energy analyzing any of this, BTW) I'm just offering information for the sake of discussion.

We are all unique. There is no end to our differences. I find not a single reason to exclude any individual from my life nor from my compassion & acceptance. I will always defend the rights we are granted via our Constitution.

There is not a shred of doubt that LGBT people are BORN THIS WAY.

Having said all of this.....the "aftermath" you note in your title, IMHO should range from insignificant to non-existent. In other words....this shouldn't even be a big deal.

You are an excellent writer! UP+++pinned & tweeted. Peace, Paula

savvydating profile image

savvydating 14 months ago

Thanks for responding izzetl---You've given me some useful information. fpherj48, I am including here some research on the matter which goes both ways. I found it in Google scholar. Perhaps it will help you to feel less confused. On the other hand, you might feel more confused than ever. LOL.


WillStarr profile image

WillStarr 14 months ago from Phoenix, Arizona

The LGBT likes to quote Levay's study as the final word in their 'born that way' claim, but it is viewed very skeptically by others:


If it was proof positive of 'born that way', the debate would be over, but it is not even close to being over.

fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 14 months ago from Beautiful Upstate New York

yvette.......Thank you SO much for the link. Whew....it was a read-a-thon, but so educational. I appreciate your help. I am not more confused at all.

What confuses me mostly is the incredible struggle LGBT human beings have had to embark upon to have what you & I were born with: The right to be who we are.

savvydating profile image

savvydating 14 months ago

I hear you, Paula. I feel the same way. BTW, did you read the Supreme Court ruling? It's about 29 pages (I think) The language was exceptionally beautiful.

WillStarr, thanks for the link. Just as an FYI: the link I provided is a debate. So, the argument against being "born that way" is there as well. I found it in Google Scholar; I only mention that because so many people have never heard of it.

fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 14 months ago from Beautiful Upstate New York

I did not read it....but I would love to...where/how can I find it? You're a regular encyclopedia of info, girl!!

and then there's always my HUGE disappointment, when I zero in on an incredibly attractive white-haired gentleman...only to discover he's gay and off limits!!! LOL!

savvydating profile image

savvydating 14 months ago

Lol. You're the funniest gal!

Here it is. The first 28 pages contain the decision. The rest is the dissent. The very first part of the document is a syllabus or something, so you have to scroll down a bit. Enjoy!


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 14 months ago from Beautiful Upstate New York

Yes, I AM funny. Now...if only everyone could appreciate my humor!! LOL Thanx!

izettl profile image

izettl 14 months ago from The Great Northwest Author


You say "The gigantic differences between child rape and marriage between consenting adults are consent and the adult capacity to give consent. Marriage between consenting adults isn't in any way equivalent to rape of any kind. I should know; I've been married and I've been raped. They're nothing alike." is not true. The difference is social acceptance and changing societal views. the age limit for "consenting" could one day be lowered as society's views change. Look at how much society views changed in the last 30 years about homosexuality. You can't see that because your view is still from YOUR perspective. Typical, so many people out there say...it doesn't harm me so what's the harm in general? Girls are getting pregnant as young teens all the time- hmm they consented and knew what they were doing.

I'm kind of tired of sexuality being in the headlines while I have little kids. I can only "shield" them so much with the over importance placed on someone's sexual orientation. And answering my daughter's questions like I heard from someone that I can marry my best friend (who is also a girl). Explain this to a little kid and it's even confusing for them. None if it makes sense because it's a mental illness that society shouldn't be forced to normalize because the gay activists want to tear down others to build themselves up. Please tell me they are doing all this from a loving place. Where, in California, it is now hate speech to say "husband" and "wife". you see, they are still not happy until their way of life is ours and they tear down everyone else in the process.

Our society is in the PC mindset to grant equality to all. How can pedophilia be wrong if people are born that way- it must be something in the human genome that tells us it's OK to be attracted to young kids. If it's biological, WHAT IS WRONG WITH IT? You see, the argument can be made for pedophilia and even serial killers (with the biological tendency). "Consent" is only one law that pedophilias have to change- age limits for marriage and sex which used to be much lower than they are now. And if it naturally occurs in people biologically then what is wrong with it? Other than laws and they change just based on acceptance and "love everyone" mentality. When you normalize things in society that aren't, already pedophiles are on board with getting their rights such as not having to be shamed or fear coming out as a pedophilia. I've got small kids so yes I want to be notified where these people are at.

In Mexico men engage in acts with their donkeys. We get grossed out by that but people do it, they like it, so it must be OK. It's OK in their society.

So why can't people marry their dogs if it's not about sex? What about asexuals marrying themselves.

PLEASE TELL ME: My issue is a change in societal views to normalize things that may actually be damaging. When I say damaging we already know kids from these parents have higher suicide rates. I already know trying to explain my 7yr old daughter about sexual orientation is like saying yes I know you "love" your best friend (because we all start out in life with a friend, not a boyfriend or opposite sex relationship with attraction) but sexuality is different. Hmmm now how do I explain sexual attraction to a 7r old? Seriously?! How would you explain that? She has been thinking well I love my best friend (who is another girl) so this must be who I marry someday. To be politically correct I must say yes, yes go ahead and marry her. We start down that path and Lord help us.

izettl profile image

izettl 14 months ago from The Great Northwest Author

Savvy dating,

I realize the studies from both sides of the fence are out there. First, one thing you must know about studies- they're only allowed to be granted or published IF it fits societal views. I was in research psychology. If it doesn't pass the current views in society then the study will be left behind, only for the researcher to try and (likely futilely) hold up his study on his own.

Also if they are born that way, so are pedophilias and serial killers. doesn't that mean they need equal rights as well? Absolutely no logic in that.


"We are all unique. There is no end to our differences. I find not a single reason to exclude any individual from my life nor from my compassion & acceptance. I will always defend the rights we are granted via our Constitution." So you'd buddy up to a serial killer? Be oK with having our neighbor be an ex convict or rapist? You're a better person than I.

Sadly this statement is quite an umbrella statement. If you choose to not find anything wrong with anybody with a love all mentality, you are choosing to include pedophiles and serial killers as well. Abusers, etc. When people tell me they love and accept all I think it's pretty words BUT that's not possible. It makes you sound nice BUT it's not reality. It's not an action- it's merely a statement. You may not have been tested to love all yet- have you met all or his friend Al who is a serial rapist? How would you show your love for him? Maybe from distance you can say that but it really means little to nothing in reality.

Hey girl, I used to be like this too but I really had to get out of myself and be tested a few times that loving all is only a statement, it cannot be practiced realistically.

I'm also offended that "husband" and "wife" is now being fought as hate speech. This is why I knew the gay agenda was to tear down something already established rather than establish their own institution.

P.S I'll give some of these links a look, but just know science is like politics. You'll find studies will show up after politics and societal views are changing. They'll be a plethora of studies to emerge in support of gays because of the same-sex ruling. Studies against it won't make it past the board.

fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 14 months ago from Beautiful Upstate New York

izetti.....I can see that my comment is much too general and I should have elaborated. Especially since we have only recently met & you're not familiar with me. You have no way of knowing my character/personality or beliefs. (They glare boldly through.....via my hubs)

Ironically, after I left my comment, I scrolled through your catalog of hubs & made a mental note to get to your site as often as possible to read what look like topics directly up my alley. I am interested in getting to know you better.

Of course I would not "buddy-up" to a serial killer or rapist nor any person I am sure is a hardened criminal. All due respect, I'm really smiling now. Prior to my retirement izetti, for 5 years, I was Supervising Counselor for the inpatient dept. of a large City Crisis Center. prior to that, I worked in a State Facility with dually-diagnosed "patients"....that being they were both intellectually and/or physically disabled as well as criminally insane. In other words, rather than incarceration, their sentences were to a Mental Facility. I probably needn't say much more about that.

If you read my first comment, I would hope you realize, in focusing on your specific topic.....I repeat: It all confuses me. In saying that, I should explain I am beyond the point of having any more patience with the drama and scuttlebutt .

My point is actually, "OK, now the gays have won their long hard struggle.....seem to have what they wanted and needed so badly. It has been declared by the Supreme Court to be Constitutional.....so NOW I say....SHUT up PLEASE." Can we all just get on with life now? Stop marching and put your signs down please.

Yes, as with any high profile, National cause....there is the AFTERMATH to deal with. I understand......which is something more I've lost my tolerance for.

Human nature....."Now me, now ME...what about me? How about MY rights.?"

Vicious unending circle. No, absolutely NOT am I a "flower-child" type who just uses the terms Love the whole damned world. NOW I'm laughing simply because if my friends were to read that, they could easily ask....WHO? Paula? NO WAY!!

I'm not a confirmed loner, semi-recluse....love-my-solitude sort of woman for naught. Believe me. I'm not at all HAPPY with humanity 75% of the time.

I hope I have cleared this up. I fully appreciate your issues and concerns...and again, you write very well.

Rodric29 profile image

Rodric29 14 months ago from Phoenix, Arizona

fpherj48 , you know we are not going to SHUT UP at all! When has anyone been quiet in this nation about anything.

Next we are going to try to get an amendment to the Constitution that each state can determine what its marriage laws are and no state has to recognize marriages that do not fit into its definition.

I hope that is what happens. I hope that all the states who do not agree with the new law support the drafting of a new amendment to the constitution. I would support it.

My views in no way give me the right to mistreat others for not sharing that view. Other sure have a hell-of-a-lot to say to me about my views though--and I mean HELL when I say it.

I am used to persecution, but this new version of it is ridiculous for modern times.

fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 14 months ago from Beautiful Upstate New York

Rodric.......With a sigh, I agree you are correct that no one will ever close the chapter and "shut up.".....But I can still THINK IT.....since we should never SAY "shut up," after years of telling children it's a VERY rude thing to say!!....LOL

I have no idea what to expect next nor do I spend much time worrying about it. Looks like the people from the Ivory Tower just continue to do as they please and we're just the "little people."

That's why this "little person," lives a simple, quiet life and stays out of the way of the Big Bad Wolf!.....I merely wish to live out the balance of my life in peace. Amen

savvydating profile image

savvydating 14 months ago

fpherj48 (Paula), I'll shut up soon (LOL), but first I think the important thing to know is that the current research (which is more current than the one I sent you) is pretty solid that homosexuality is innate. I also checked in with my brother who has a PhD, and who has written many periodicals and a few books. Consequently, he knows about peer review and what articles are published and how they are graded. I had him take a look at this hub article.

Basically, he said, "She seems to think there is a bias about the research--that only those who support the current trends gets published. It just isn't true; she is basing her argument on opinion and not fact."

He further said: "Regarding her thoughts that pedophilia brains are wired that way, she may have a point. Research by Schiffer and others seems to show their brains are wired a certain way (see citation below). Serial killers seems to have warped brains to put it more bluntly. Odabasi and his fellow researchers found their brains were not normal. Gays had normal brains. So it is a false analogy. She's comparing apples and oranges in this case."

Does this help?

Schiffer, B., Krueger, T., Paul, T., de Greiff, A., Forsting, M., Leygraf, N., ... & Gizewski, E. (2008). Brain response to visual sexual stimuli in homosexual pedophiles. Journal of psychiatry & neuroscience: JPN, 33(1), 23.

Odabasi, Z., Parrott, J. H., Reddy, V. V., & Oh, S. J. (2001). Neurolymphomatosis associated with muscle and cerebral involvement caused by natural killer cell lymphoma: a case report and review of literature. Journal of the Peripheral Nervous System, 6(4), 197-203.

izzetl, My point is that comparing Gays to serial killers is illogical, not to mention wrong. I also question whether children of gays commit suicide more often than heterosexual children, as you stated. Frankly, I seriously doubt it, and even if they did, it may have something to do with how people view their parents and how they may not feel legitimized in the eyes of society. Hopefully, they will feel legitimized now.

Anyway, your mind is made up and I am not here to start a fight. But your opinion is not scientifically supported when it comes to Gays, and to hang on to a belief from 1973 is silly. I am not sure where you do your "research in psychology," but is is basically full of crap---no offense. We know so much more now than we did back in 1973.

Long story short, I just want people like Paula and others to know that your comment on publishing trends is false as far as serious scholars are concerned. That being said, the media and bloggers who have no scientific background will say anything that is popular---but they are not scholars, nor do they know much, if anything about peer reviewed articles.

I also intend to check on whether the 1973 ruling was changed due to politics, but even if it was the research has proved that being Gay is not a mental illness. Consequently, it they should not be compared to those people, like serial killers, who do.

izettl profile image

izettl 14 months ago from The Great Northwest Author


I believe you're a great person. I can tell because you have kept an open mind through all this dialogue and have wanted to learn more. You are like me in that we're very curious folks and I appreciate all points of views. This one just happens to be where I stand my ground a little firmer.

But yes sadly, this isn't a yay-for-gays-now-they're-happy sort of deal. If it was I'd leave it be with only a little bit of "scuttlebut".

But this in fact is one of those times that I believe the gay "agenda" is out to harm and tear down the institution of marriage to build themselves up. let's face it, this is easier and more satisfying for them to take the institution of marriage and rearrange it to suit them instead of establishing their own institution and gain rights through that one.

I also think it is damaging that the gay activists agenda will have gays believing that gay defines them. When in fact there is so much more to a person than that. So a big giant wedge will divide people- what has happened is gays believe if someone doesn't accept that aspect of them, it means they don't accept them at all. This isn't true. With my gay friends I do not think about whether they are gay nor blinked an eye about them being gay. When the same sex marriage past they knew my position on it, but a couple had a problem with it. I said you either accept me or not but know that I've never blinked an eye about you being gay.

But like I said gay agenda has made such a fuss about it that gay Is their only identity. I believe this leads to depression and suicide. If gays weren't defined by that (as the gay activist and groups have established that mentality) then their wouldn't be such pressure to feel accepted for your sexual orientation. Hope that makes sense but the fact that one aspect of a person is their whole self esteem is unhealthy. I sucked at my career after becoming a mom and my job didn't accept me as being a good working mom. I would've been crushed if that was all I saw myself as- luckily I am also a great mom, friend, writer, wife, daughter, Christian. There's so much more to me. In psychology, we know that a star athlete who suffers a career ending injury goes through a deep depression. Because if people define themselves as one thing, and that one thing is threatened in any way, they're lost.

izettl profile image

izettl 14 months ago from The Great Northwest Author


Ok since I can't convince you gay isn't biological (or innate), Genetic inheritance is only one factor that contributes to a person's future/outcome. Based on this it would mean that not all people who had the "gay gene" or similar brains would actually be gay. Some would and some wouldn't- because genes is only one piece of the picture- environment the other. So find me a straight guy who has that same gene or similar brain. Because that would be and should be true- if we're talking genes. Two people with a cancer gene, both may not get it because of difference in environment or lifestyle.

And based on what your brother said, "She seems to think there is a bias about the research--that only those who support the current trends gets published. It just isn't true; she is basing her argument on opinion and not fact." Two things I went to school for: journalism and psychology- I quit pursuing both after I got my degrees because there is a lot of B.S, bias and untruths in those fields. The APA (American psychological association) is under fire right now as we speak. http://www.newsweek.com/torture-cia-american-psych...

So that proves their lack of ethics. Please read this link above and I'm sure your brother must know about this as well. You don't think those same people are fudging some studies or making some more public and important than others? All. The. Time.

another example: 2004, Korean scientist Woo Suk Hwang, and an American collaborator, gets a study publicized on stem cell research. One year later, after enormous publicity and citations, it is found to be fudged/untrue. I can't believe your brother thinks there's no bias or ethical issues even concerning the "gay gene" research. What I have found with a few of my PhD friends is that they isolate themselves from a lot to specialize in their areas of study so they have a narrow view of the big picture.

Conflict of interest can permeate very aspect of science. There are people funding studies and grants for those studies- just like in politics. If there is a lack of funding for research to disprove the gay gene/biological factor, guess what isn't getting studied? Yep!

izettl profile image

izettl 14 months ago from The Great Northwest Author

Savvy dating,

Wow your brother cites a couple of studies and suddenly he knows better. Ugh! I really hope you read my comment to you above. Give that to your brother. I can give him citations if he wants, but seriously that disproves his only statement to me that yes there is bias. Studies/grants are paid for. We'd be like two Christians back and forth with bible versus, but with us it would be studies. You can find a study to back anything up. But can you do anything else. Nope- you and your brother made assumptions about me and posted a couple citations.

I really wish you hadn't said, "But your opinion is not scientifically supported when it comes to Gays (it is and you'll find other sources who will state the most recent study is flimsy at best), and to hang on to a belief from 1973 is silly (I was only pointing out that the change in DSM to eliminate homosexuality wasn't based on science - we've only had one big study on gay genes just this last year so obviously 1973 didn't have any such studies then, only perspective and "beliefs". To hang onto a belief from 2015 is silly too because in 30 years it will be obsolete. Get what I'm saying?). I am not sure where you do your "research in psychology" (at a University)," but is is basically full of crap---no offense (none taken however the University might take offense). We know so much more now than we did back in 1973 (do we? or is it just a change in society and perspective and an increasing acceptance in sexual deviance due to an over sexualized society- in 20 years when we find out the gay population has risen exponentially in today's children/tomorrow's adults, we'll know it wasn't due to an increase in gay genes but rather the environment and kids being exposed to the gay lifestyle more. But wait...are we better off than in 1973- or are just the gays better off. Cause I kind of think society is full of idiots right now. Narcissistic, family first doesn't exist anymore, more importance on self than family, less mommy's at home to raise kids, a youth that's waiting to get famous on You Tube, but you want to think this society right now knows better than 1973? Are you OK, I mean to put it nicely...I don't admire what this society knows or thinks more than 1973 so I guess I am silly)."

Because when you say I'm full of crap because I didn't cite it, look dear, I do my research on any topic that I write on. Very thoroughly. One thing you should know about me is I take it seriously. I don't just put words out here unless I can back it up. Why? Mostly people like you who will always come back to me with a dispute. Why write anything if I can't back it up. The above comment to you will back everything up.

The difference between me and your brother? I don't buy everything that's told to me and my career doesn't depend on it

izettl profile image

izettl 14 months ago from The Great Northwest Author


You say, "Long story short, I just want people like Paula and others to know that your comment on publishing trends is false as far as serious scholars are concerned. That being said, the media and bloggers who have no scientific background will say anything that is popular---but they are not scholars, nor do they know much, if anything about peer reviewed articles."

Your brother is a serious scholar? He is also removed from the real world if he believes one recent study, which isn't conclusive. HE is the one throwing his weight around as a "scholar". How do I know? because you started your comment out with my brother is a PhD blah blah blah...

I was an honors student in research psychology. No I didn't go beyond a graduate degree because I had a baby, or two. I also saw the MAJOR flaws in psychology and it doesn't mesh well with my need for high ethics in my life (I'm an INFJ for your brother who should know) so I like to say a degree only a piece of paper. The real life experience came from observing and talking with people...everywhere I go. Yes, there are media trends: Facebook data analysists showed people posted the rainbow icon on their profile picture if a certain amount of their friends did it. Their decision based on peers was more predominant than their age, sex, or religion. Peer pressure! That's it. Social acceptance!

I have this feeling your brother is isolated from society a bit and its sad because many PhD's don't know how to relate with the rest of society. Your brother has more to lose than I do if he can't believe in a right and just science- it is his life's work- it's only a small piece of my life. He knows what cognitive dissonance is: he couldn't be content knowing his work falls under a false umbrella of lies, politics, and bias (refer to link I posted in comments above) therefore he justifies it (there's no other choice). Stands by it until he's blue in the face. I didn't get ALL my experience from books and my opinion on "live and let live" has changed since having kids. I am invested in others, not for my own personal gain (INFJ personality).

Yes, savvy dear, my transgender dad is a MENSA genius and "believes" as I do. You see, you can't possibly trust what comes from a flawed system (science). That is flawed logic right there (no citations necessary)That's really what is SILLY!

izettl profile image

izettl 14 months ago from The Great Northwest Author


If your logic that following a notion from 1973 is silly, how do you feel about 1787? Constitution was written...

How about the ancient notions in the Bible? What year was that?

Sorry but I don't prescribe to the current way of thinking just because it's current. Funny thing about that is it won't be current in 20 years.

izettl profile image

izettl 14 months ago from The Great Northwest Author

Please read this carefully:

The only comparison I'm making with pedophilia is if gays continue to insist on a "gay gene" and being born that way makes it right and justified, then why is being born that way for pedophiles not right? One age law, and kids who already have sex "under age' , and a society that already glamorizes it (TV show 16 and Pregnant). So you tell me what's the difference? This is either a weak argument for gays or pedophilia is next in line for rights.

Also the other argument gays like to use is "everybody deserves rights". If everybody does so do pedophilias. and basically everybody does. That's a slippery slope.

I have never said pedophilia and being gay is a similar condition- they just have similar arguments for them. Please check out a few links in the hub itself- mainly the Allen B. West link.

What's also interesting to note is pedophilias (despite having the innate desire for youth) do not act on it, they would just like the same rights and not be scared to announce this issue or be reported by counselors they go to. Many do not seek treatment because a counselor has to report them if they mention having a desire for youth. Child molesters do act on it- they are different than pedophilias. In fact if pedophiles don't act on their desires why do gays have to?

Have you also noted no studies have been done to conclude anything biological for gays yet the studies done are on men- are there no gay women?

Erin 13 months ago

Great points

izettl profile image

izettl 13 months ago from The Great Northwest Author

Thanks Erin!

WillStarr profile image

WillStarr 13 months ago from Phoenix, Arizona

Have you read this, izettl? :


This is the same way homosexuality became normalized and acceptable.

pstraubie48 profile image

pstraubie48 12 months ago from sunny Florida

You clearly are very passionate about not wanting your child who is so young to be faced with hearing about such personal topics that we as parents wish to discuss/or not with our children at a time we deem appropriate. Unfortunately things do come up and school...via little ones.

(I was a teacher for 42 years and believe me I acted as the filter for many topics that were not what should have been brought out in front of all).

'Our times they are a changin'---and you acting as a shield will become of even greater concern, no doubt. Answering and explaining what your child wants to know will come incrementally probably. We tend to want to hop right in and tell too much...often the child is satisfied with an answer to the question at hand and clarification can come later as maturity comes. Does that make sense?

I get it---that you worry she may think she would marry her girl friend...and what if she DOES make that choice (maybe not this girl, but another)? Will you love her any less? I think not. The bottom line, it seems, is that we guide and offer direction and guidance and hope that what we share is taken to heart. Children do grow up and they make choices. And we have a choice then...to live with their choice or not...


as far as the whole gender/marriage issue ...I have friends who are openly gay and were married in California and they are lovely. Their gayness does not define who they are to me...it is the way they treat others...their goodness that has made them a part of my friend circle.

I have other gay friends as well... and as a Christian, I believe that judging them is between them and God...I am not in a position to judge anyone, for anyone reason.

It is a slippery slope...all of the issues that we are facing today...learning how to traverse these choppy waters keeps us ever on our toes, making decisions about how we will handle what comes up.

Well done...thanks for taking the time to write in such detail and with such passion....

Angels are on the way to you this morning ps

izettl profile image

izettl 10 months ago from The Great Northwest Author


thanks for commenting. Yes, I realize most kids will get a major chunk of their info from school. My daughter's best friend has a lesbian older sister. What concerns me is places like Target and trends in society that don't want to guide kids in the way of gender at all.

We have to realize gay is not the norm- nor the majority so we can't act like most kids will even understand any of this at all without adding more confusion to the situation.

As a parent I don't just say hey my kids wants to do this so it's natural and let them. My kids have wanted to streak naked 24/7 but there are general guidelines like wearing clothes.

What concerns me are the parents who aren't guiding their kids and although gay is nearly openly OK, there seems to be an identity disorder among our youth.They have a lack of guidance because parents are afraid to.

As you say kids will ask more questions as they mature. My kids 8 and under are not satisfied with simple answers. They don't stop at something age appropriate. So I may not be raising no dummies, but I'm wondering if other kids truly stop asking questions to the point of where their maturity level is at.

I've also seen a friend who thought she might be gay, explored it, found out she was, then had a couple of girlfriend's. She changed after her latest girlfriend who was heavily involved in a LGBT group.


Darkproxy profile image

Darkproxy 10 months ago from Ohio

Ugh the fact that LGBT and feminists get away with exploiting children sickens me too the core. I recently saw a video with little girls saying "FUCK YOU" as if they are being cute, well their feminist mommies are basically using them as some form of Proxy soap box. Teen mom is an example of teenage stupidity, giving into hormones without responsibility. I

savvydating profile image

savvydating 4 months ago

izettl....I failed to say "Thank You" for the additional information. I did not mean to insinuate that my brother is smarter than you or anyone else. He has a lot of knowledge about many things and that is the only reason why I asked his opinion. This olive branch comes late, but it is still sincere.

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