Why Do The Republicans And The Tea Party Hate President Obama?

Why All This Drama Over Obama?

© 2008 VVeasey Publishing

10/21/09

Why Do Republicans and Tea Party Hate President Obama?

I guess more accurately the question should be why do some people hate President Obama? He was elected by a large margin of electoral votes so there are definitely a lot of people who like him. But that said! Why All this Drama Over Obama?

When he announced he was running for president, the secret service had to start guarding him about six months before they normally start guarding presidential candidates, because of all the death threats he was receiving. So the question is why is that? What had he done that was so bad that they had to start guarding him that early? Did he murder somebody, rape somebody, rob a bank, commit an act of terrorism?

No he didn't.

All through the presidential campaign there were people protesting his candidacy, calling him a traitor, a socialist, a communist, a Muslim or an Arab, (which to their minds were all bad things) but none of this was true! But they still persisted in spewing their hatred toward him and were not amenable to reason or the truth.


Drama At John McCain's Rallies

At some of John McCain’s rallies there were people shouting kill him! I can’t remember anybody at a political rally shouting kill a presidential candidate in my lifetime, no matter how unpopular they were! So again, Why All This Drama Over Obama?

What had candidate Obama done that was so egregious that it engendered that kind of intense hatred and hostility toward him?

When he became president the hatred and hostility didn’t stop, it intensified!


The Birthers

You had the so-called birthers attempting with all of their might to de-legitimize his presidency saying that he couldn't be president because he wasn't born in the United States. No matter how much data was examined or presented to show he was born in the United States, (birth certificate, announcement of his birth in two papers at the time) was not good enough for these people. It was all faked! The truth could only be what they fervently and bitterly believed the truth to be! They wouldn’t and probably still won’t accept anything less than what they believe to be true! Again, Why All This Drama Over Obama?

What do they have against President Obama? What has he done to engender that kind of hostile scrutiny from them?

Did Bill Clinton or George W. Bush have to prove they were born in the United States to be president?

No they didn't.


Caricatures of the president

At many of the so-called town halls meeting, angry protesters carried caricatures of the president as Adolf Hitler as well as other offensive racial images of him to show what a horrible person they think he is! But what had President Obama done to make them view him as Hitler or as someone who was the same type of person as Hitler?

Hitler killed millions of people, what had President Obama done that could be equated to what Hitler had done?

Let me answer that; nothing!


Obama is going to kill grandma

Then there was the healthcare scare. Obama is going to kill grandma!

These people just won’t quit! They want to de-legitimize his presidency and get him out of office by any means necessary. It was just one thing after another all summer long. Again Why All This Drama Over Obama?

As shocking as this may seem to some of you, there are some people in this country who just don’t want to see a black man be president of the United States. Or any none white person for that matter. But definitely not a black man. They say this is a white country and should be ruled or governed only by white people, preferably white men.

To these people (including some in the congress) President Obama can do no good. He could walk on water, bring the dead back to life, wipe out world hunger, bring peace to the world and they’ll find a way to find something wrong with what he did. Because it’s not about what he did. It’s about what he is.

All you have to do is type white supremacy into Google search or a search engine of your choice and read the contents of the various white supremacy sites. Or visit the Southern Poverty Law Center’s website, (they track hate groups) and those of you who don’t want to believe that in this day and age that the President’s race is the problem, will receive a rude awakening!

Of course not everyone who doesn’t like the president is a racist. Some may have legitimate political differences with him. That’s OK. They can disagree with him and have a civil discourse about it without spewing hate and hostility.

Some people don’t know that their negative racial feelings are fueling their fear and hatred of President Obama and would be mortified to think that they harbored any such feelings.

But, psychologically, when someone automatically experiences intense hatred, dread or other such emotions about someone they don’t know, it’s usually a sign that they have underlying subconscious feeling they aren’t acknowledging.

It’s like a phobia, where someone reacts to a fly as if it’s a grizzly bear about to attack them! Their reaction is out of proportion to the danger they’re actually in.

A phobia is a conditioned response, a subconscious alarm system that says, when you see situation or person A, trigger emotional reaction B!

People like this wouldn’t know why they have such intense anger or hostility toward President Obama, but may unconsciously project it on to something else about him, that would keep them from being aware of the true reasons for their intense dislike of him.

So again, why do these protestors have such intense hostility and fear of President Obama, that appears to be out of all proportion to anything he’s actually done? Why All This Drama Over Obama?


Stop Obama

The republicans, Rush Limbaugh and others' stated agenda was to stop President Obama from being successful. Not to try to make the country better, to help people or to try to create more jobs, but to stop Obama!

They don't give a damn about the country only about stopping Obama and they proved this by being against anything President Obama is for.

If they were for some proposal and Obama decided to adopt it, they would do an about face and reject a proposal that they previously supported because Obama was now for it!

Are these people really Americans?

Should they even call themselves Americans, if all they care about is stopping President Obama and be damn the country?

There's just something about a black man being president of a "white" country that just irks them.

So the question remains, what has President Obama done that was so bad that these people have all these irrational ideas, feelings, beliefs and hatred toward him? Why All This Drama Over Obama?

If you can see some other reason than his race, that explains why candidate Obama had to have secret service protection, six month before presidential candidates usually receive protection (and this goes for all of the points I’ve made). I want to hear it. I'd love to hear your comments!

In support of the point of this hub read the following


"My party is full of racists.

Oct 2012

The Republican Party is full of Racists

"Col. Lawrence Wilkerson, a self-identified Republican who was Gen. Colin Powell's chief of staff during his time as secretary of state, did not take too kindly to a recent accusation -- from Mitt Romney's controversial campaign co-chair John Sununu -- that Powell only endorsed Barack Obama for president because they're both black. Sununu would later backtrack, but the damage was done.

Wilkerson, who is white, didn't mince words on MSNBC'sThe Ed Show Friday night. "To say that Colin Powell would endorse President Obama because of his skin color is like saying Mother Teresa worked for profit," he said. And although he gave Sununu a bit of a pass, blaming his statement on an "unfortunate" choice of words, Wilkerson had much harsher words for the GOP as a whole.

"Let me just be candid," he said. "My party is full of racists. And the real reason a considerable portion of my party wants President Obama out of the White House has nothing to do with the content of his character, nothing to do with his competence as commander in chief and president, and everything to do with the color of his skin. And that's despicable." from the Root webpage http://www.theroot.com/buzz/former-powell-chief-st

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Thanks

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Comments 1322 comments

LorrieCass 6 years ago

It makes me sick when I see the Racist tshirts and posters. If this were a stereotype targeting a past presidents heritage it would not be tolorated. President Obama and his family deserve our respect! I am a white woman and voted for the best canidate.In the end he will prove himself and become one of the greatest.


vveasey profile image

vveasey 6 years ago from Detroit,MI Author

Right on LorrieCass!

And thanks for your comments.

So far no one who has read this hub has answered the question this hub poses or show that it's anything other than his race as to why these people hate him or fear him.


Serenity 6 years ago

All of this was a plan to jeopardize Obama's second term in office. Media is a tool to persuade their viewers, not to vote for Obama in the next upcoming November election. I see and hear this conspiracy all the time. I pray Father Yahweh help President Obama to win his second term in office. Amein


vveasey profile image

vveasey 6 years ago from Detroit,MI Author

Thanks for commenting Serenity (nice peaceful name)

I think there may be something to what you say. But the question remains, why is that even before he became president there were all of these people emotionally upset, fearful, hateful, protesting against him even becoming president. What had he done to generate that kind of response?


Misty 5 years ago

to vveasey. That was one of the problems.

I'm not talking about disagreement with policies b/c even though Bush was disliked by many, the animosity did not start until two years into his presidency.

To answer the animosity, race was definitely a huge factor, and the death threats started once he announced he would run for president.

In addition to that, the words from the right-wing media and Fox News got out of hand and were giving in to all the rumors that he's a secret Muslim (which would not be a bad thing if he was) , despite the controversy over his pastor, out to destroy America and such.

Some of it was religion and politics (right-wing Christians have this ridiculous obligation to always vote republican b/c that's God's side) and some would give messages that Obama is the Anti-Christ or he's the most "liberal" (again along with muslim would not be worse. I shouldn't use the word conservative as a derogatory word either.) senator ever.

Policies would get in there, such as "he's going to take away your guns", and with healthcare: "He's a communist/socialist/facist/hitler/etc/" or "He's going to kill Grandma".

The fact that a black guy is about to be president and the un-conscious racial hatred is like a pile of whipped cream on top of the thousand calorie banana spilt of hate and fear. There were Democrats (specifically white democrats) who literally said they would never vote for a black guy. It may have come with an "I'm not racist, but..." in front of it, but it tells how strong racism is (especially institutionalized racism) is in this country. They want to make sure he fails, and they do not care about the good of the country. They would vote Sarah Palin in over Obama, sadly. They only want a white face for the White (man's) house.


vveasey profile image

vveasey 5 years ago from Detroit,MI Author

Misty thanks so much for your comments

I think that everything you've said definitely has validity. You're right, many whites of every political spectrum would never vote for a black man...but many did vote for him or he wouldn't have or couldn't have been elected president.

You're right many whites want him to fail.

That's the expressed goal of the republican leadership, Limbaugh, Beck and others like them.


Misty 5 years ago

I understand and know that there were many that did vote for him. Mostly my argument is that he fails to communicate sometimes. He promised to be open and although he doesn't need a lot for confidence, he lacks gratitude sometimes which can be a turnoff. It's a virtue to be a calm person in the midst of a crisis, but he has to understand that we as Americans are very much greedy little brats and he also has to understand that, although it does not need to be that way that working with republicans, the bipartisan relationship b/t two political parties is a problem as well.


vveasey profile image

vveasey 5 years ago from Detroit,MI Author

Misty thanks for your thoughtful comments

I think that in addition to what you say that he needs to be a little more of a fighter, rather than always being so willing to bend over backwards to get a bipartisan consensus on an issue.

On the campaign trail he was fiery and had people fired up! Inspired! and Hopeful! And that's what he's missing now that he's president

Many of his fans don't feel that anymore because of his community organizer's approach to dealing with republican opposition, rather than fight back when he's slandered or attacked, he tries to win them over and that will never happen!


Latonia 5 years ago

Hello, Im so glad I came across this website. My heart is trully broken for President Obama. I trully believe every word that has been posted here. I am currently in school and I have a particular classmate that will not let up on him he has called him everything accept a child of God and we all just try to keep the peace. But I am so sick of it. I voted for him and I'm proud to say I did and will vote for him again in 2012. I am not happy with the way things are with our government but I must say it feels no different than when Bush was in office. I feel that our President can not win for losing. No matter what he attempts to do it gets shut down. This is an effort to keep him from making anything better. I feel that the old mentality of the good ole boys club is make the rich richer and the poor poorer and Im sick of it. Im sick of the hateful comments that are made about President Obama and his family. I have never in my 37 years of living seen such hatred and disdain for a human being in my life and for anyone to think this is ok is psychologically damaged. this country needs to get on one accord. He is the president and you dont have to like it but you should respect it!


vveasey profile image

vveasey 5 years ago from Detroit,MI Author

Thanks for you comments Latonia!

All I can say is right on!


Marty 5 years ago

I think they are not afraid of Obama but more of what he represents which is change. when change comes people tend to show their true colors seeing as most people didn't want to change their ways. picture it like this when a man discovers he has a new baby coming into the world he would tense up sometimes knowing that he had to find a way to take care of the baby. It would frightened him because he would have to change his entire lifestyle in order to accommodate for the baby. change can be scary and some people refuse to accept it.


alishia gilmore 4 years ago

I was relieved to see this post. I have been tired of hearing all this poilital rederic over Obama. He inherited this mess from our previous presidential administration. The reason why I believe so many whites voted for him was because our government needed a fall guy as a smoke screen. So in other words lets put this "Token Nigger" in office because we as the U.S government have really f*@%'d up this time. But what they didn't expect of their token, was that he was more educated then what they thought. But if you pay attention as to why he doesn't communicate about everything, is because telling too much of our country's business is why terrosists think they can bomb us on our soil at any given moment. Our media is always telling eveything about our military strategies. Funny how other countries don't tell us of their military moves. How long was Bush declaring to catch Bin Ladin? Oh that's right wouldn't. Because he was in Iraq looking for weapons of mass destruction that didn't exist. Obama did it in less than three years. So once again history repeats itself. He is a well educated man and a gifted speaker who knows when to act and when to stand fast. That's true intergrity! He said at the very beninning of his Presidency that it would get worse before it got better. Now the country is slowly getting there, they want to get him out, because he's making the rich pay there fair share of taxes to help get some pressure off the little man. Oh but I guess that it's alright for Romney to say to America that he's not concerned about the poor. If I'm not mistaken that's how this country got ripped from it's seems in the first place. This is clearly why the white man didn't want blacks to read. They would beat or kill a slave if he or she was cought reading. They feared this 400 years ago. Now the chickens have come home to roost. To really be truthful of this whole political matter. Obama being elected as the first black president in American history, is actually close to the movie Trading Places, starring Eddie Murphy and Dan Akroyd.


vveasey profile image

vveasey 4 years ago from Detroit,MI Author

alishia gilmore

thanks for your thoughtful comments glad

this hub could provide you with some relief


Tim 4 years ago

It blows my mind I constantly here people say we have to get rid of Obama but if you were to ask them they wouldn't be able to tell you why goes to add validity to what your saying.


vveasey profile image

vveasey 4 years ago from Detroit,MI Author

Tim

Thanks for adding your thoughts.

Now you know why they can't articulate why they

don't like the first Black President


rad 4 years ago

They hate obama cuz he is black and no other reason, the tea baggers have shown that all the time.


vveasey profile image

vveasey 4 years ago from Detroit,MI Author

rad

that's definitely the main reason they hate him


Latterallis 4 years ago

I have seen the constant vitriol levied at the Obamas since Mr. Obama announced his campaign, and it made me wonder what either of them had done to deserve such rabid hatred. And make no mistake, it is RABID. It's also pervasive in the media. It seems that very few political commentators have anything good to say about the current administration - and those who initially supported the president are virtually silent when asked to defend him publicly. I have lived through and have personal recollection of the Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan, Bush I, Clinton, and Bush II presidencies. Whatever he says, Nixon WAS a crook and a liar who thought he was above the rule of law; Ford was a patsy and a criminal himself, because he illegally pardoned Nixon when Nixon had not even been indicted! The president has the constitutional power to pardon convicts, people already convicted of crimes, but he can NEVER interfere with the regimen or conduct of the Justice Department. That's called "Obstruction of Justice" and that's one of the high crimes and misdemeanors for which Nixon was being investigated. Jimmy Carter was a nice man, too nice a man to be president in a town like Washington. He championed education, human rights, liberty, and affordable health care - much like Mr. Obama. He had a few snafus, but overall, I really liked him. Still do. Ronald Reagan was a mixed bag, but overall, the economy did well during his presidency and he was popular - I liked him too. Bush #1 was a forgettable man whose biggest claim to fame was Desert Storm and his lie about "No new taxes!" Clinton was a morally bankrupt embarrassment who committed a felony in office by trying to cover up a sexual tryst, rather than fessing up and apologizing. He spent so much time screwing around and covering it up that terrorist organizations flourished under his watch. Some of his policies were good, but that's about all. Disliked him, still do. But my disgust for Clinton is overshadowed by my horror over the Bush #2 presidency. He was a warmonger who let 9/11 happen while he went on constant vacation - probably as an excuse to blitz Iraq to avenge daddy. Still wondering where Iraq hid all of those Weapons of Mass Destruction - and why they haven't used them exactly? Under his reign as King of Fools (he was a bungling idiot - especially verbally) America went from 3 trillion surplus to a 3 trillion deficit. But he still has his oil fortune and that ranch in Texas. And what the heck was up with that pathetic phony southern accent? He was born and raised in the northeast. Detested him. As for Obama, he's made some good decisions and some bad ones, but he is mostly just hamstrung by a right wing congress who would rather cut off their own noses (and ours) to spite their faces, than give him anything that might appear like support - no matter how sound the idea or proposal. I believe that for most right wingers, his race plays a key role in their utter rejection of everything he touches. What a pathetic reason to hate.


ObamaBlowsAsPresident 4 years ago

First off, I think we can all agree that the signs are a bit much at the rally's. There are some real dumb asses out there, on both sides, who simply do not like somebody because of their skin color, religion, sexuality, etc. I think we can all agree our nation has come along way, yes?

Having said that, let's quickly overview your article (or rant) you have going above. Granted this is pretty old it still seems people are commenting so I will chime in. Barack Obama has been a huge failure for this country. He has spent more than any president ten fold and yet unemployment is at 11-12% when you factor in people who have simply stopped looking for work. So don't think it's at 8.2! No president has been reelected with unemployment lower than 8% so there is a reason they are trying like hell to spin the numbers.

There are 4+ million jobs fewer in this country than when Obama started into office

Again, unemployment

Gas prices are soaring

The fact that he cried about the war and how Bush was violating our rights by wiretapping and "torturing?" Funny how he has taking those tactics and turned the knob up a bit on all fronts. You have hundreds of predator drone strikes that kill, yes, but also eliminate any chance to capture and obtain information that could further help. Bush's "torture" tactics are what helped the Obama team eventually get Bin Laden. Speaking of which, was a great moment for OUR COUNTRY. Instead this asshole comes out and after crying about everything, take credit for it? A real man would have given a bit of credit to the previous administration and others, but no, not Obama.

If you really study the guy, you'll notice he takes credit for things that he shouldn't and blames the bad shit on others who don't deserve it. He can do no wrong! I'm sure some of you don't have a job, just based on statistics. How is that going for you? Its been almost 4 years since your buddy got in here. How's the hope and change? How are you enjoying the health care bill that was shoved down our throats, that Pelosi said "we needed to vote on it to find out what was in it", that 65%+ of the population now wants to strike out. Wake up people. If your a far left liberal than I am not speaking to you because as far as I can see you probably don't think Obama has done ENOUGH! However, for you simple democrats, your president is destroying your party. And quit complaining about the racism, honestly? You think Bush didn't get pelted with nasty comments? How about the movie that fucking came out about hims being assassinated while he was still in office for crying out loud? You people are crazy.

.....oh and by the way your article has no references in it


12345 4 years ago

I live in Georgia so I know a little something about racism. I honestly wish they would just say it's because he's half black because they are not concern with the rest of his gene make-up.


Trace 4 years ago

Obama is not only the worst, but the most dangerous president we have ever had in the history of this country.

That has nothing to do with his race.

He was, however, elected BECAUSE of his race, not because of his qualifications. If he was NOT African-American he would have never been elected. Imagine someone of a different race being elected on such a flimsy resume!

There are MANY African-Americans infinitely more qualified. Too bad we didn't elect any of them.


Nathan Orf profile image

Nathan Orf 4 years ago from Virginia

I heard Colby I. King, on Inside Washington say once that if Obama could walk on water, Republicans would accuse him of not being able to swim.


vveasey profile image

vveasey 4 years ago from Detroit,MI Author

Nathan

Obama could raised the dead, find a cure for aids and they would find something wrong with!


vveasey profile image

vveasey 4 years ago from Detroit,MI Author

Trace

You say "That has nothing to do with his race".Then you say "He was, however, elected BECAUSE of his race"

contradictory!.

So it was and is about his race. He was hated by many tea baggers and othera, called a nazi and other nonsense and he wasn't even in office or had put any policies in place.

But he was a black man who had the nerve to run for president of the united states!


vveasey profile image

vveasey 4 years ago from Detroit,MI Author

Latterallis

I agree!


vveasey profile image

vveasey 4 years ago from Detroit,MI Author

ObamaBlowsAsPresident

And you say that I'm ranting in my hub? Whoo! Your middle name should be rant.

You say "..oh and by the way your article has no references in it"

You're not as smart as you think you are because this is not a research paper so it doesn't need references.

It's a hub. And if you don't now what that is....


Nathan Orf profile image

Nathan Orf 4 years ago from Virginia

vveasey,

Not to mention, ObamaBlowsAsPresident listed some dubious "facts", like gas prices rising,when actually they are falling, the unemployment being a 11%, (even with people who are not looking for work,) Obama spending more than any other President (really, really big bogus there!), and that the U.S has lost 4 million jobs since Obama became President.

Maybe he needs to check his own references. It all sounds like right wing screeching for this moderate Democrat.


vveasey profile image

vveasey 4 years ago from Detroit,MI Author

Nathan Orf

I agree! The guy's mind is confused and clouded by hate, anger and racial bias


Fedup 4 years ago

To me the main point of this hub was to try and answer why there is so much hatred towards our president, that seems to come from white people. I was searching the web trying to find answers about this because it really bothers me. Of all the 8yrs bush was in office, i felt he was a dingy at times, and he wasn't who i voted for, but not once ever did i have hatred towards him. Even after all the jokes about his intellgence surfaced did i really care to much for it. Regardless of how he ran the country i never exhibited hatred towards the man.


Nathan Orf profile image

Nathan Orf 4 years ago from Virginia

I think it should be said that not all Republicans hate Obama because of his race, although with Tea Baggers, it all seems much less clear. After all, how many black people do you see at Tea Party rallies?

I have spoken to many Republicans, known many and been friends with many Republicans. Most of them passionately disagreed with Obama, many of them actually did hate him, but most of them were not actually racists.

I think, for many Republicans, it is possible to oppose President Obama on political and ideological grounds, and not be racist. But as I said, the Tea Party is definitely uncomfortable with a black guy with a weird name in the White House.


vveasey profile image

vveasey 4 years ago from Detroit,MI Author

Nathan Orf

I can agree that maybe all Repubs and tbaggers may not hate Obama because he's black and may disagree with him on polictical and ideological grounds. I think I mention that in my hub.

But I think many of them do hate him because of his race or feel intensely uncomfortable about it and some of them don't know that about themselves or don't want to admit it

But here's the issue.

All of this hate an animostiy started before he became president, while he was campaigning to be the nominee and wasn't that well known.

The of level hate and animosity was way out of portion to any other candidates.

Security had to be provided for him about 6 months earlier than usual for political candidates because of the record number of threats to his life received on a daily basis.

People were shouting kill him at some of Mccain's rallies. What had candidate Obama done to warrant that level of threat and hostility?


vveasey profile image

vveasey 4 years ago from Detroit,MI Author

I'm assuming those attending McCain's rallies were probably all Republicans of various types and Tea Baggers. Just a guess..I could be wrong.


actionsauce 4 years ago

The irrational hatred of Obama by Republicans has been all too well noticed by people in other countries. This only highlights the not always so obvious racial hatred and stark differences between Democrat and Republican voters. The acts of pretty much all Republicans (excluding John Huntsman, a real conservative and not a racist) since his election has only further proven that a elloquent and intelligent black man is the enemy of the Republican party.


vveasey profile image

vveasey 4 years ago from Detroit,MI Author

actionsauce

Good Points!

thanks for commenting!


Nathan Orf profile image

Nathan Orf 4 years ago from Virginia

actionsauce,

Are you sure you're not just getting your views about Republicans from your preferred news source? My experience with Republicans tells me that most are not racist. They are just being defined by a minority of morons who get all of the media attention. I agree with you about Jon Huntsman though.

vveasey,

Don't get me wrong, I do agree with you about race being a factor in why some people don't like or even hate the President. I think that for the most part you are dead on with your analysis in this hub. It kills me that moderate Republicans are just too timid to go against their party and defend Obama out of simple decency.


vveasey profile image

vveasey 4 years ago from Detroit,MI Author

Nathan

it's kills me too that the timid moderate Republicans are too afraid to stand on their own and speak against their party if they think it's off base or doing something wrong


Nathan Orf profile image

Nathan Orf 4 years ago from Virginia

vveasey,

Yeah. Politics these days.


TaraMo 4 years ago

I think it is good to show peoples true colors no pun intentended I think its good to know who is really racist so we can fight against it. Its been there the whole time

Ive seen it alot before obama


obamanation 4 years ago

i dont get all this hater hype...i mean really...im sure there are alot of people out there that dislike obama for the color of his skin but y is it always made out like that goes for everyone??!!! does one so easily forget where obama was on the anniversary of the ft hood massacre which if memory serves also happened ta b close to the birthday of the USMC??!!! i know where he wasn't but should have been.... thats more then enough for me....i havent seen a bit of good yet that obama has done!! so instead of ranting about people not liking him because of the color of his skin how about listing wat good he has done for this country!!!!


marlene 4 years ago

this man and woman are just pure EVIL an grasping


Nathan Orf profile image

Nathan Orf 4 years ago from Virginia

obamanation,

If you are voting based on where Obama was on a certain day, then that makes you less than qualified to vote for anyone at all. And you might sound more credible if you learned how to spell properly.


vveasey profile image

vveasey 4 years ago from Detroit,MI Author

marlene

I have no idea of what you're talking about!

obamanation

you say "i dont get all this hater hype" then say because the president wasn't where you thought he should be on a certain day "thats more then enough for me....i haven't seen a bit of good yet that obama has done!!"

I think that put you in the hater's camp


ann 4 years ago

arogance and racsit that theryan romney tea party base


dancing 4 years ago

I voted for Obama and now I cannot stand to see his face. He has let us down in so many ways from what he promised. I feel the same way about Washington as a whole. We need to get rid of all of them and get real people in their with term limits and are not worried about getting re-elected. I was the most excited I had ever been when Obama was running. What a flop.


Nathan Orf profile image

Nathan Orf 4 years ago from Virginia

dancing,

Thankfully for the rest of us, people like you are in the minority. Most people are aware that Obama's inability to get anything done is the Republicans fault, not Obama's. Your naivete is painful. You must be very young if you thought Obama could change things overnight.


vveasey profile image

vveasey 4 years ago from Detroit,MI Author

dancing

I agree with Nathan.

The president whomever he (hopefully one day she) happens to be doesn't have a magic wand he can wave and make what he wants to happen, happen.

The House and Senate have to be willing to cooperate with him or be on his side or nothing gets done.


tarred12 4 years ago

Nathan, You must be the child here. Anyone with common since can see what this President has done to the US . READ the FACTS . The President had TWO years with both the House and Senate. What did he do? Nothing but ramed a Health Care Bill down our throats.


Nathan Orf profile image

Nathan Orf 4 years ago from Virginia

tarred12,

I would like to see these wonderful "facts" that you mention, but do not list. I am aware that the President had two years to gt things done. He got quite a bit done, and I am satisfied with how the results have affected me personally. If you have to resort to name calling in order to make a weak, baseless argument, go right ahead. Now list these "facts" you mention in capital letters.


DISinfo 4 years ago

This hub & some of the comments are yet another ridiculous liberal democrat pow wow of half truths and anti American rhetoric.

Since a video of Tom Wise is posted by the author - that pretty much guarantees the hub's message is an anti white racist lie. I heard that guy was proclaimed the evil white uncle tom of the 21st century over a year ago from his funding scandal.

Good cartoon of Obama on Time magazine cover. The fake death threats from groups that never issued them are a wonderful analogy compared to Hitler's fake Jew threat to the German people all to get the German's to crush a common enemy all based on illusion out on political need..

Fortunately for us, Obama is a much weaker speaker & leader than Hitler was...


vveasey profile image

vveasey 4 years ago from Detroit,MI Author

DISinfo

If you think that President Obama is anything like Hitler

you're so far out in left field I can't even see you.


jman00001 profile image

jman00001 4 years ago from Texas

OMG .. More of these kinds on hub topics?

You should let your readers know how you choked on your own liberal pretexts for supporting illegal aliens voters on your other political hub.

It appears you are using the same tactics here and dodging others potentially good points via simple avoidance.

Hmm, another question for you to avoid I guess would be proving if you are even a real hubber or simply a person on the democrat party's payroll to spout your false triva.


Donny2014 4 years ago

I mean I really have to wonder. From the day Barack Obama decided to run for office ludicrous allegations were made against him.

If any media house shows Obama leading in any poll; some people scream the media is liberal.

Then another thing. I find it weird that during this time that we're closer to the elections and the polls show Barack Obama leading in the polls, some anti-Obama movie has come out. Why didn't that movie come out while he was running? Then if there is the claim that this is what the White House doesn't want us to see, how was someone able to get a hold of it and make a movie out of it?

My take on it is that the GOP knows it's losing. The saying, "A drowning man will catch at a straw" is really coming home.


jman00001 profile image

jman00001 4 years ago from Texas

Donny- thanks for tip on the new movie "2016: Obama's America". .. the google search said... anti-President Obama documentary burned up the box office this weekend, becoming the highest-grossing new film and coming in eighth overall out of all films showing... Sounds like an interesting flick to check out :)


Donny2014 4 years ago

Jman00001

And I'm so amazed at the number of people that seem to believe that junk that the so-called documentary has about the president. If you check out several forums where people are talking about it many people are like "The truth has come out and liberals are scared." It boggles my mind

Like I said before the GOP is fighting like crazy to get Obama out of the White House. Not about jobs. I heard Romney say the election is all about getting Obama out of the White House. Are we to believe he'll be any better? With all his flip-flopping?


lifewithoutTV 4 years ago

Tarred12

Actualy The majority of Senate were only held for 4 months due Kennedy's illness (he was in the hospital for most of the time) and Byrds illness


jman00001 profile image

jman00001 4 years ago from Texas

Donny,

Both "sides" are corrupt. Neither "side" cares about truth or the country. Each cares about power and votes. Pretending that one side is totally good and the other is total bad is as silly as believing professional wrestling is real and not rigged. Yet many people are so brain washed now they won’t change their vote regardless of any facts.

The only reason I see choosing one crook over another relates to basic principles and their effect on the public. My hub regarding gay marriage and Obama versus the Bible position relates to one of those basic principles. Therefore - yes- I think Romney may do less long term cultural damage to America than Obama would.


Dawn 4 years ago

I am sickened by the disrespect and obvious hatred towards President Obama because of his race. My friends daughter went to college in the south in 2008 during the election and had to drop out first semester because of the hatred towards Obama. They would hang and burn Obama dolls on campus. My daughter also went to college in the south in 2008 and began dating a white/black student and was harassed. I guess I was fooling myself when I thought that the politicians were above that kind of hatred because of the color of a man's skin and not the character of a man. I am not very proud of the campaign of hate and lies by the Republican party I am embarrassed they are Americans!


Duck 4 years ago

In my quest for knowledge and to be as informed as possible, I came upon this page. What I found truly astounding is that after reading all the comments, virtually NO ONE was able to answer the question. That in and of itself speaks volumes.


vveasey profile image

vveasey 4 years ago from Detroit,MI Author

Duck

that is amazing isn't it


Mark 4 years ago

Mr. Obama will be recorded in history as the most racially and religiously divided president in modern history. His apology tour, appeasement to Muslim radicals, his arrogance toward Israel, his rejection of Christians, his actions toward whites, his failure to prosecute Black Panther extremists and his appointments to office of some of the most racist people since the civil war. If this administration was white I can't imagine the protests in the streets that would probably turn violent.

If America survives history will forgive George W Bush. I recall all the same resentment toward Reagan by the left and yet history redeemed his name.


Donny2014 4 years ago

Let us remember as we approach the 2012 Presidential elections that the eyes of the world will be on us; in particular those non-Westerners who we always preach to about human rights. It's really a double-standard because we're no different from them because of all this racism that's totally uncalled for.

The allegations against President Obama are most absurd. Saying he caused the debt. Oh please! What about all those illegal wars started by the previous administration? One fighter jet costs at least 35 million; not to mention the cost to maintain the many thousands of them and others. And what about the soldiers? Where do you think the money came from? Guess who paid for it? Good grief! In all my years I've never heard such allegations against any president!


Ivan 4 years ago

It saddens my heart to where I am so ashamed of the racist America. I never expected so much hatred toward a president. GOD bless us all and make the blind see again...Peace to all...


Ricardo 4 years ago

It definitely has been on my mind for a long time as well regarding all the hate towards the President. I have never felt that way towards anyone it almost seems disrespectful towards the office but I am certainly aware that "race" must have something to do with it because with other Presidents who are "white" you don't see that kind of intense reaction. I enjoyed your article but it kinda makes me "mad" because it simply reinforced my own opinions about our society and when will we ever learn to accept others regardless of the color of ones skin


vveasey profile image

vveasey 4 years ago from Detroit,MI Author

Ricardo

thanks for commenting.

I feel your pain.

It's good thing that there are still many Americans black, white, latinos etc who still, love, respect, and support President Obama


Right 4 years ago

Gents, I see very little “ hate “ toward President Obama. That is media cover story mostly. I do see “hate and fear” of his policies and socialist agenda but not the man.

President Obama was voted in office in 2008 with a 90+% of the black Americans vote. The only ethnic group that actually came close to following the great Martin Luther King’s “dream” were white Americans. That fact seems to be undisputed as over 43% of white, some of these were Republicans, voted for Obama over McCain based on promised, presentation skill, and the need for change. Senator McCain was clearly NOT a strong candidate for the office and had an awkwardly poorly run campaign.

The hate you see and feel , is the “anger” generated primarily by “proper” Americans that are disgusted by the “others” who support Obama. (Namely the hard core fringe groups, anti-Christians, the indigent poor, the various hard core socialist/ Marxists believers are also ~95% united with Obama as well.)

Do you really think that when time passes and white become a true minority nationwide, that the government’s affirmative action and job quote discrimination policies will stop? No chance.

I see fear of the building race based discrimination – the modern racism – much of the population is mindlessly entrenched in . Anti white right hate groups with uncle tom like spokesmen such a Tim Wise are now mainstream. (Visit states like New Mexico and Texas with big illegal immigration issues and see the real world.)

If you believe in Obama based on results in real job growth, results in fulfilling actually campaign and other promises, and results in keeping America strong, safe, united in purpose and approach, and respected then do what you believe.


vveasey profile image

vveasey 4 years ago from Detroit,MI Author

Right.

You say "Gents, I see very little “ hate “ toward President Obama. That is media cover story mostly. I do see “hate and fear” of his policies and socialist agenda but not the man."

Why were people hating Obama before he got in office while he was candidate Obama?

Why were people saying kill him at some of McCain rallies?

Why did candidate Obama have to have secret service protection 6 month before candidates usually get that protection because of all the death threats he was getting?

He didn't have any policies. He wasn't in office. He wasn't the president

I don't know what mental world you're living in..but there seems to be a lot of people like you, who want to blame the hate and hostility directed at President Obama, on everything but racial hatred.

It's always explained away as something that's only looks like or is masquerading as racial hatred and animosity.


everyhuman profile image

everyhuman 4 years ago from Beverly Hills, CA

I want him out of office because he is a bad President. I have animosity towards him, because he is dishonest. The main problem, is that he is impassioned to "fundamentally transform" the country. As President, Obama is suppose to be Americas biggest cheerleader and defender. Nobody who truly identified with America, its ideas, history, and culture, would want to fundamentally transform it. And, any President doing his job, would not apologize for America, and pit Americans against each other. We don't hire Presidents to jack our country and remake it into their own vision. We elect a President to serve and protect the vision. Doesn't matter if Obama or anyone else thinks America should be something different, it isn't his to reshape. I resent those of you that point to racism, mainly, because it skirts the real problems and is a way to overlook the many real and important reasons why people are upset. The real racism exists within the fervent supporters of Obama; no other President, or Presidential candidate, is given such benefit of the doubt on every issue; I've heard the most outrageous explanations coming from people trying to justify and explain Obama's actions. To justify Obama canceling NASA, one supporter went so far as suggesting there is likely a war going on with people living on the moon - who shot down that one Russian rocket as a warning to Obama not to go into space and to mars. Why is Obama excused for all mistakes? Why is Obama not vetted thoroughly like everyone else? Why do people assume that all criticism comes from racism and has nothing to do with Obama? This hasn't been the case with any other President; so, the only answer available, to explain why all of you are acting different with Obama, and holding a different set of rules and expectations for him, is because of his race. This reverse racism, as it always does, will only end up hurting his race. Because you people will not hold Obama to the same standards, black people will end up being shamed by the performance of their race in office, instead of ending up having had a successful, competent, and well vetted President to make them proud. Obama is a poor president who's Presidency is not good for anyone. His perspective, like that of many of today's Democrats, is wrong, not American, ineffective, and unsuccessful.


vveasey profile image

vveasey 4 years ago from Detroit,MI Author

everyhuman

thanks for your comments.

You're definitely not every human because a lot of people don't agree with you about President Obama.

What other kind of vetting does he have to go through?

First it was and still is he's not an American.

Those like you demanded to see his birth certificate.

When the state of Hawaii sent the certificate they send to all person's born in that state. That wasn't good enough. They clamored for the long form certificate. Hawaii sent that..but wouldn't you know it..that wasn't good enough...it was said to be faked!

That's because the so-called birthers and others are so upset that a black man is president of what they see as a white country that should only have a white President, that no amount of "vetting" will satisfy them.

They will do and say anything to get him of the office they think a black man shouldn't be in in the first place.

President Clinton, both Bushs and no other President in my lifetime has been asked to prove he was an American and when he does prove it's not acceptable.

Mitt Romney's father was born in Mexico his mother in the U.S. Obama's father was born in Kenya his mother in the U.S. why doesn't Romney have to prove he's an American?

If it's not about his race answer me this...why did candidate Obama have to have secret service protection six months before candidates normally get that protection, because of all the death threats he was receiving?

Why were people saying kill him at McCain's ralliies? What had he done as candidate Obama that people wanted to kill him?

I don't think people at political rallies have shouted kill him about any other Presidential candidate in my lifetime, why is that?

As candiate Obama he was being compared to Hitler of all people! People at rallies were carrying signs with pictures of him made up to look like Hitler.

What had candidate Obama done that was even remotely like Hitler?


jman00001 profile image

jman00001 4 years ago from Texas

Vveasey,

I see you are avoiding statements made by me, everyman, and Right. Your support of President Obama is a good example of why Obama instills such negative feelings in working Americans.

You had no comment toward explaining the basis for a 90-95% black vote toward Obama other than open and outright mindless racism. In this case anti –white racism. Your kind is guilty by association and most liberals seem to glorify in that.

You were afraid to comment on “why American “ embassy’s are burning or under attack all over the world – under the Presidency of Obama who supposedly would build international relations and love of America? ..

Your nonsense “cover” comments about why did people say kill Obama at 2008 McCain rallies extra are embarrassing. One answer is such protesting people were hired by the Democrat party to instill a false image around republicans. Same goes for the extra security, etc all a prop show to push a long dead notion of anti black racism. As I recall, a far more powerful leader than Obama - also a socialist – pulled that stunt some decades ago in Nazi Germany.

Regardless, you mentioned such nonsense out of desperation since you could NOT defend or counter the real reality shared by the other hubbers. They posed question and solid comments that you and your liberal followers duck and hide from since you KNOW your “candidate “ has failed and is wrong.


vveasey profile image

vveasey 4 years ago from Detroit,MI Author

jman00001

I'm not going to tolerate insults. Stick to the facts.

How do you know if I'm afraid to answer? That's just your baseless (except in your own mind) accusation.

You talk about "cover comments" You sound paranoid. I'm not making cover comments. I'm telling you how I see it. If you don't agree move on.

I have no comment on why you say 90-95 percent vote toward Obama because I don't know why they vote for him do you?

You say "Regardless, you mentioned such nonsense out of desperation since you could NOT defend or counter the real reality shared by the other hubbers" (Really? ha ha ha ha)

This is more psycho babble from you, you're making all of this up in your own mind because I don't feel any sense of desperation or any of the wild imaginings you kept attributing to me.

I don't feel threaten by comments you or any other hubber make about what you think I feel or what my motives are.

I see nothing to be afraid, concerned about etc, etc because I don't think to much of what you have to say.

So the accusations you're making are way out in the Ozone.

Now, if you would have ask me why I didn't answer some question rather than jumping to wild baseless conclusions. That would have been more respectful and realistic and I would have provided you with my answer.


vveasey profile image

vveasey 4 years ago from Detroit,MI Author

jman00001

last comment

you say "you could NOT defend or counter the real reality shared by the other hubbers"

I guess you haven't read all the comments on this hub or you overlooked them because there are many hubbers who agree with what I'm saying. Check it out!


vveasey profile image

vveasey 4 years ago from Detroit,MI Author

jman00001

I ddn't want to have to say this but, unfortunately

you're one of the most self-obsorbed, insulting, disrespectful hubbers I've interacted with.

You're like a hub heckler, ...a hub terrorist leaving your disrespectful venom on my hubs.

You seem obssessed with trying get me to see things your way and showing me that you're right and I'm wrong,..that you're intellectually superior to me and I'm intellectually inferior to you (ha ha ha ha that's funny as hell and if you don't know why...you're more self-obsorbed than I thought)

So if you can't tolerate the fact that I have my own way of viewing the topics my hubs deal with because it differs vastly from yours...

do us both a favor and stop following them or commenting on them because I'm not going to tolerate any more insults or disrespect from you or any other hubber who disagrees with me.


Donny2014 4 years ago

vveasey

jman00001 and every human are perfect examples of why the world regards America which such content. If the president is supposedly making international relations worse, why do the polls say the President polls higher than Mitt Romney in that regards?

Furthermore no one is requesting that America apologizes for it's principles. American principles are justice for all; not wantonly bullying the rest of the world into submission and killing a few of them and burning their Korans or spitting on the dead Afghan soldiers.

Don't bother to waste your time arguing with them because they're too absorbed in their political ideologies that they can't see facts


vveasey profile image

vveasey 4 years ago from Detroit,MI Author

Donny2014

Thanks for commenting I appreciate it

I couldn't agree with you more.

jman00001

was so self-blinded she thought her and every human's were the consensus opinion comments on this hub! As I told her and you showed her, that's not true! Ha ha ha ha

Thanks again!


Donny2014 4 years ago

vvseasey

Not a problem! I mean the facts are there. Most media outlets have the President leading in polls. Why can't people just look stuff up on the web?

Furthermore, the President can do so much and no more. That's the way Congress works. Why am I even telling grown adults this? Remember that infamous statement that was about doing all to make sure that President Obama would be a one-term president? Those GOPs had it planned from the get-go. To say that President should have cleaned up the mess that President Bush left after 8 years in office is most absurd.

Then the claim that the new Healthcare law will increase the debt and that people can't afford it. People can't afford something that will save peoples' lives in the long-run and increase productivity on the job. I guess people would rather spend money to buy and prepare weapons to take lives. The price of one fighter jet is around 35 million. There are tons of fighter jets and other war-planes in service and I didn't even mention the cost of maintaining them and feeding the soldiers. And the fact that we were in two wars, hello?!


vveasey profile image

vveasey 4 years ago from Detroit,MI Author

Donny2014

I hear ya!

They won't look stuff up because they don't really care about that "stuff"

Republican leader Mitch McConnell who made that infamous statement showed you what they really care about, he said “The single most important thing we want to achieve is for President Obama to be a one-term president.”

Not working with him to improve the jobs issue or the economy but to make him a one term president

So they blocked every bill President Obama wanted to pass to help improve the job problem and the economy to make him look like a failure to the American public.

You know this, I'm saying this for those who leave the negative comments about the president who conveniently ignore this "stuff" or make excuses about it.


jman00001 profile image

jman00001 4 years ago from Texas

Gent,

The only venom is you and your insults. You and your “friends” simply skip over key issue points and run to your alternate issues. I am Not trying to be insulting. I made counter points and supported those with similar points. You got upset over that feedback.

Numerous hubbers including you openly admit to and seem to take great pride in being pro socialists/ Marxist. Using your own previous statements in replies is not ment to be an insult? I mean you can call me a capitalist, or one of those freedom loving , hard working, keep with natural order and traditions people, pro- Martin Luther King, pro- survival ( & support of the fittest) .. I’ll accept such previously admitted position feedback.

Yes, you have many hubbers agreeing with you. That hardly makes your comments right or logical. Odds are indeed in Obama’s favor for 2012. Again that does NOT make it a good thing. It just illustrates the decline of America and the voting public.

Bottom Line, theoretically we could have every US Embassy burning, 25+% unemployment and 10x more open violence in the streets and more polarization of the people and you and your liberal hubbers would still vote for Obama.

That actually is the key point. No one believes that the majority of Obama voters are rational in their support. His record is completely beside the point. Good, average , bad or even evil- I and many others truly believe that most liberal democrat voters would continue to vote for Obama even if the Republicans found a great candidate for once.

Maybe the link below’s message has more truth in it than I realized. It relates to a philosophical problem in having a democracy with leadership quality. .

http://www.lifeslittlemysteries.com/2191-people-sm...

However when an entire nation and what used to be world leading way of life is being wrecked it seems time to take action. Yes I plan to avoid your hubs since you are not able to handle debating your points versus just getting supporting feedback from like minded.


vveasey profile image

vveasey 4 years ago from Detroit,MI Author

Thank-you jman00001

and good-bye!

No tear from my eye


Nathan Orf profile image

Nathan Orf 4 years ago from Virginia

vveasey,

I think you handled the situation with these insulting comments extremely well!


vveasey profile image

vveasey 4 years ago from Detroit,MI Author

Nathan Orf

My man!

Thanks for your support!


Donny2014 4 years ago

vveasey

guess what? Obama is still leading in the polls! Plus Romney made a huge blunder in one of his speeches. Check out yahoo and you'll see what I mean. All I can say is that the way he's behaving, I wouldn't be surprised if the President wins by a landslide. It would be good if you could post it and maybe some recent polls you can find so that these "blind" people can see for themselves. Romney is giving the election away!


vveasey profile image

vveasey 4 years ago from Detroit,MI Author

Just a few polls

Pew Research Center found 45% of Americans who said they were closely following the news approved of Obama's handling of the situation, compared to 26% who approved of Romney's statements. Conversely, 36% disapproved of Obama's handling of the situation, and 48% disapproved of Romney's response. Nineteen percent didn't have an opinion on Obama, and 26% couldn't rate Romney.

Republican challenger Mitt Romney trails President Barack Obama by nearly 10 percentage points in the latest survey of small business owners, The Business Journals reports.

Obama is favored by 47 percent of the small business owners, while Romney is favored by 39 percent, the survey said.

With just 50 days before the November 6 election, Obama led the former Massachusetts governor by 48 percent to 43 percent among likely voters in the online poll conducted September 12-17. In a similar poll last Thursday, he led by 48 percent to 41 percent.

"My takeaway is that it's pretty decent news for Obama that his bump is sustaining so long and he may be turning the post-convention bump into a lead," said Ipsos pollster Julia Clark.

In a shift in recent days, Americans also gave a small edge to Obama on the crucial topics of jobs and the economy, as they feel less nervous about economic conditions.

Thirty-seven percent of registered voters thought Obama had a better plan for the economy, compared with 34 percent who favored Romney on the issue. Obama led 36 percent to 35 percent on the issue in a poll released last Thursday.

Forty percent backed Obama on jobs and employment, compared with 36 percent who favored Romney.

"This is a bit of a shift," Clark said. The two candidates had been tied or Romney was slightly ahead on the economy since May, but that has

changed to give Obama a small edge in the wake of the convention.


vveasey profile image

vveasey 4 years ago from Detroit,MI Author

Here's a video of Mitt at a private fundraiser showing what he really thinks about Americans who won't vote for him!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MU9V6eOFO38


vveasey profile image

vveasey 4 years ago from Detroit,MI Author

I'm not voting for Mitt and I have a job! I pay my taxes! I guess that means I'm from another planet!

Mitt has the "brass" to talk about people not paying taxes?

He ships his money to overseas tax shelters, so he doesn't have to pay any or very little taxes and definitely not his fair share!

Can somebody say two-faced-hypocrite!


Over 4 years ago

 

This hub was clearly the product of a hard amount of work and emotional content.

However I do not understand why the author doesn’t defend his positions with facts and logic when counter points are made. When questions were posed by Trace, Jman, Obama Blo, and others the hub writer has yet to try and counter these points? Instead I see  long rants and tirades and emotional vs intellectual support by others. Guys why are you letting the right wing tea baggers beat you on intellectual debates.  Stop comments like  “I hit a nerve” ,“you hurt my feelings” , or that they are full of mindless hate and defend your positions intellectually and point by point.  I would also politely suggest that we not use Tim Wise or other white hate related video clips else we also look like hate mongers.

 

I have noticed this tactic to go emotional or change the subject used on other political hubs as well when the commenter apparently beats out and wins various points in the hub debates. Please lets win these points and maybe over time win these people making them over.  

 

By the way, there are eloquent, intelligent, educated employed black and Hispanic men and women that vote Republican. Especially those that earned high paying jobs or that run businesses . We can’t dismiss these citizens either.


Donny2014 4 years ago

vveasey

Thanks for the heads-up on the polls. Too bad people like Over can't see the facts that are plainly "in our faces." I would suggest you don't even waste time to argue with him because it would be pointless


vveasey profile image

vveasey 4 years ago from Detroit,MI Author

Over

thanks for your comments

good points!

But there is no debating those who are intrenched in their viewpoints.

They like to debate to try to covert others to their viewpoints. So what usually happens is that they get angry because they're so emotionally attached to their viewpoints and so convinced they're right, they can't understand why those they're "debating" won't agree with them.

I've "debated" many times with people like this...it's an endless "debate". It never ends or leads anyplace. It's a waste of time. They're not open to anything but what they're convinced is the truth.

So it's not really a debate, although it's called that..it's really proselytizing

I'd rather discuss issues with those who aren't so emotionally attached to their viewpoints or who think that only they know what's right, and aren’t intolerant of the views of those who strongly disagree with them. Who resort to name calling and fantasizing vast conspiracies, and attributing unholy motives to others to account for why they won't accept what they in their infinite wisdom know is the “real “ truth.

You say “ please lets win these points and maybe over time win these people making them over”

I'm not interested in winning points or making people over. I let people believe whatever they like. I'm not trying to change anyone. I like discussing issues with others in a mutually respectful way not debating them for the aforementioned reasons

So if that's your goal...write your own hubs and fulfill your own wish

I have my own way of doing things


over 4 years ago

 

 

 

I can see the obvious facts but just suggested using them  more versus the teabagger types comments. I mean who can stand  seeing and listening to Mr White is right, wooden man Romney– yuk.   Just preaching to the choir and dismissing the others looks too much like we are the ones entrenched in a mindset and being unwilling to consider compromise regardless of facts. You do great research in your hub writing  and thought that could be leveraged within the comments section more during debates with others –even if they can’t be convinced at least other readers could see logic win the day ..   That was all . Thanks


vveasey profile image

vveasey 4 years ago from Detroit,MI Author

Over

I see where you're coming from

thanks, sorry if I misunderstood you!


Donny2014 4 years ago

Over

And please also accept my profound apologies for misunderstanding you. I just read your response and what you said does make sense. Thanks for the enlightenment.


Kim 4 years ago

I thought when Obama was elected President he could make a difference in the lives of inner city blacks..., he has not. He could have had a message of; do not do drugs, do not kill, do not have children you will not support, work hard for what you want in life, do not feel sorry for yourself, get involved in your community (this does not mean selling drugs), and by god this is a huge country...., move somewhere where you and your family have a chance. Whey live in places like Chicago where everything is so expensive and you run the risk of being shot on a daily basis. The problem with most people is they really do want something for nothing..., nothing is free, someone paid for it at some point in time.


vveasey profile image

vveasey 4 years ago from Detroit,MI Author

Kim

thanks for your comments!

you seem disappointed and very emotional about how you feel.

You say "The problem with most people is they really do want something for nothing..., nothing is free, someone paid for it at some point in time".

Do you really think that most people which would be like 80-90 percent of Americans ( greater than Romney's 47 percent) "want something for nothing?


Angie 4 years ago

Why are we all of the sudden not allowed to hate HIM, while through out history, every candidate has some opposition and not to mention extreme hatred. The reason that people are comparing him to a dictator is exactly this, you are NOT allowed to speak BAD of him or his policies. You must also understand that almost everyone I know who likes him is someone who admits to having no knowledge of politics. That being said, you might not understand the fact that his policies are very socialistic, and oppressive. ( yes, he passed a law stating that anyone can be detained based purely on suspicion). So you have to think to yourself why someone would actually dislike him, and stop asking rhetorical questions expecting to get comments on how this is a racist nation and that this is the first president to get criticized. If your really into politics, and voted for Obama, then you must be against the free market, because Obama himself has stated that he believes in redistribution. Go out and check facts on Obama, check his background, and check his policies if you are serious; if your not serious, please tell us so along with the real reason you voted for Obama.


Angie 4 years ago

It is obvious by the lack of intelligence, and lack of fact in most of these comments that Obama supporters don't know what the hell they're talking about. Calling mitt Romney "mr. White is right" is doing so without warrant don't you think? Unless your a little bit (or very much) hateful towards whites, and that itself is very immature. By the way another lie I can see is that Obama supporters make up 89%? That's a lie. I haven't seen one speck of truth from these Obama supporters, only lies and name calling. If that's not all your good for people, make some intelligent arguments. Yes Kim, it is around 47%, and a lot of people do want something for nothing, because from what I've seen here, people are completely oblivious to how he system works.


Your moms 4 years ago

Vveasy, you are ignorant, and from what I see cannot argue with facts. Please present some facts other then emotion driven babble you cleverly pretend not to like.


Angie 4 years ago

Jman, I applaud you for bringing facts to hub pages. Isn't it funny though how you almost don't belong here, because you take an intellectual approach, while the Obama supporters here only make childish insults? Don't worry though, because these type of people are like zombies, you can present them with cold ,hard, irresputable facts, but they will not blink. Look at the one arguing with you like a baby, screaming that you were insulting them because you brought up truth and numbers. I'm with you all the way, and hope you know that it's going to be alright, because in the long run its either going to be that the intelligent survive, or that we all ( smart, dumb, rich, poor) go down together. Either way they will be forced to see why they were so wrong for voting these type of people in.


vveasey profile image

vveasey 4 years ago from Detroit,MI Author

Angie

You say "Why are we all of the sudden not allowed to hate HIM, while through out history, every candidate has some opposition and not to mention extreme hatred".

who's stopping you from hating President Obama?


vveasey profile image

vveasey 4 years ago from Detroit,MI Author

moms

you sound like you're talking about your self

let's hear your facts


Nathan Orf profile image

Nathan Orf 4 years ago from Virginia

Angie,

You sound rightfully offended with the first part of your response, then you turn around and call Obama supporters ignorant and unintelligent. How about using your "facts" and your "intellectual approach" instead of resorting to "childish insults?"

You offer no support for your position, and you make yourself sound like a hypocrite by moaning over how insulted you feel, before hurling insults. It all makes you seem like a nasty person, all around. Prove me wrong. I hope you do...


tuppenceworth 4 years ago

I would like to thank you for pointing this out. As an American living abroad, it is so obvious. People didn't vote FOR McCain, they voted AGAINST Obama. People aren't going to vote for the Republicans this time (why would they vote for a man so out of touch with normal working American people??), the are voting against Obama. Because he is black. Republicans I know don't say "oh Romney is going to be a GREAT president, what a great guy! What great policies!" They say they don't want another 4 years of Obama. It's thinly veiled, but it is racism all the same even if they don't admit it to themselves, and it's obvious from where I am.


vveasey profile image

vveasey 4 years ago from Detroit,MI Author

uppenceworth

Thanks for your comments!

Living abroad you can see this issue from a better perspective than many people living in this country.

I agree it's mainly a vote against Obama rather than vote for Romney because he's so great!

Mitch McConnell proved exactly what you're saying when he declared

"The single most important thing we want to achieve is for President Obama to be a one-term president.”

Romney won't give any details about his so-called policies but do the republicans voters hold him accountable for that?


Jo-Jo 4 years ago

This great President has done nothing wrong. He was blessed to be born a true representation of the word African-American. My approach and outlook on this entire situation with regards to hating him is no one other than JESUS CHRIST. Can people believe lies? Why do they acknowledge the lies while realizing the truth? Please, Please every Christian God Fearing person pray for him and his family, and never stop. The situation is much too big for decent and honest God Fearing people. It's true his one and only crime is the color of his skin, however it goes much deeper that that. Read your BIBLES, and not any of these new reprints that are seriously changing Gods words. For all the Evil people against a President you represents all....Remember you STOLE AMERICA FROM THE NATIVE AMERICANS. The people who spearheaded this crime were the very ones that were set sailed on a boat by the Queen in Europe. She thought she was ridding her country of the Thugs, Thieves, Rapist, Murderers, Liars, Killers, Haters and so on. Well they landed here in America. Guess what? They did what comes naturally for them. They lied to the Native Americans and then tricked them right out of their land. They were so ignorant that they thought hey had landed in India, hense the name Indians. But don't worry because God has his hands on his children. Do you not wonder why Mitt lies keep spewing out of his mouth and why the Republicans keep attempting to clean them up by creative lies? You must remember Mitts religion teaches that SATAN IS JESUS CHRIST BROTHER. So you see it come naturally for these people the say and the evil things about the President. The fact that you believe that tells you that YES, we have people you prefer to have SATAN in the White House, rather then a human being God is watching over. My messages will also be on YOUTUBE very soon. All I ask is you listen and think for yourself with a Bible present.


Jo-Jo 4 years ago

Sorry for errors, tried to edit but was unable to. Message is there anyway.


vveasey profile image

vveasey 4 years ago from Detroit,MI Author

Here are some facts for all those Obama haters who comment on this hub and are going to vote for their boy Mitt and think he's better than President Obama (Ha ha ha ha)

(They could have claimed more in deductions, said Brad Malt, the trustee of Romney's blind trust, but the couple "limited their deductions of charitable contributions to conform to the governor's statement in August, based on the January estimate of income, that he paid at least 13 percent in income taxes in each of the last 10 years."

Romney seemed to be painted into a corner by that statement, which came in reaction to Senate Democratic leader Reid's claim to have heard that the Republican had paid no taxes in some years.

Romney will surely be reminded by the Democrats that he also said in August, defending his right to pay no more taxes than he owed: "I don't pay more than are legally due, and frankly if I had paid more than are legally due I don't think I'd be qualified to become president."

The decision of Romney's trustee to limit his use of charitable deductions in 2011 in order to keep to the candidate's claim that he paid no less than 13 percent taxes in any year over the last decade raised the eyebrows of several tax law experts. They noted that the trustee's use of numerous tax strategies gives Romney the rare ability to loosen or limit his tax payments at will. (don't you wish you could do this)

"It's interesting he didn't take the full charitable deduction," said Victor Fleischer, a University of Colorado law professor who has testified before Congress urging tightened oversight of private equity firms. "You're in a pretty lucky position when you can pay more tax" to get up to a 13 percent rate. Fleischer and several others said it was doubtful Romney could later take any unclaimed deductions in future years.)

So Mitt manipulated his taxes to make it look like he paid more taxes than he was required to pay so he would look like he paid a higher tax rate?

And Republicans are going to vote for this guy and not President Obama?

Why?

Just imgaine what would happen and how they would respond if President Obama had done this?

Romney paid more taxes than he should so by his own admission that makes him not qualifield to be president!

Even more reason why no one in their right mind should vote for Romney not even Mitt Romney himself!


vveasey profile image

vveasey 4 years ago from Detroit,MI Author

Ok Romney lovers!

Come on with your "intellectual approach" and attack these facts!


MZAZ 4 years ago

EVERYTHING about BO is a LIE. BO is a narcissistic, arrogant, egotistical, self centered American hating, self-congratulating, pathological lying socialist, PURE EVIL, Leninist, Muslim, unqualified, illegal, slacker, liar, criminal, socialistic, Marxist, Anti-American, RACIST WANNABE EMPEROR. The only thing BO is good for is APOLOGIZING when he shouldn't and bowing. We are American's and BOW TO NO ONE especially when they use a lame excuse on 9/11/2012 to KILL AMERICANS.

I watched the Democratic (RED) Convention and it was clear that the Marxists have taken over their party. They actually booed having "GOD" (our creator) in the party platform? Atheism is the foundation of socialism and communism, so what is going on here?

BO plays the race card every time someone doesn’t agree with him.

BO changes the immigration law to secure the Latino vote

BO allows gay marriage to secure votes from gay community when day before last election he was against gay marriage

BO added trillions to our national debt

BO wasted billions on green energy scam

BO put millions of ILLEGAL ALIENS ahead of American taxpayers

BO did spend more time attending games, fund raisers, vacation the you have worked.

BO did hide all his records while demanding others produce theirs.

BO says gays are OK to secure the gay vote

BO bankrupts this nation and then begs hard working honest people to give him more of our money

BO says that you should make contributions to him through friends wedding gift registry

BO requires you to purchase insurance mandated by his obamacare or pay a tax

BO whines that everybody hates him. Geeee I wonder why.

BO wants to approve marijuana so everybody gets stoned buying the stoner vote

BO cancels vacation in an attempt to project that he cares—re-election ploy

BO says business owners DIDN’T build their own plan—The government did it

BO admits he’s a failure—Looking for the compassion vote

BO wants master teachers, now appealing to the left elitists

BO brings Clinton in to support his non-existent record—desperation

Now he wants us to rehire him. What the HELL HAS HE BEEN SMOKING?

BO get out of my WH

America desperately needs to wake up and face the truth–as incredible as it is–while we still have something left of the land of the free and the home of the brave. This conflict doesn’t involve guns (thankfully), but we are clearly at war for the substance and soul of our country, so the sooner we cowboy up and take off the kid gloves, the better. It will take a miracle to slow down our descent into the morass of Marxism already permeating our culture, and probably generations to clear the minds of young people corrupted by Leftist academia.

If we have 4 more years of BO there will never be another election and we will be a socialist country. America as we knew it is almost gone and if BO makes it again AMERICA WILL CEASE TO EXIST

‎"The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left."

Ecclesiastes 10:2

About our military. "Look, it's an all volunteer force," Obama complained. "Nobody made these guys go to war. They had to have known and accepted the risks. Now they whine about bearing the costs of their choice?

It doesn't compute.." "I thought these were people who were proud to sacrifice for their country, "Obama continued "I wasn't asking for blood, just money. With the country facing the worst financial crisis in its history, I'd have thought that the patriotic thing to do would be to try to help reduce the nation's deficit. Guess I underestimated the selfishness of some of my fellow Americans."

BO IS MUSLIM... HE HAS- made our country go farther into debt any other president in history - cancelled the prayer breakfast 3 years in a row, but went to rammadon celebration - he has met his father once, but yet only associates with the "colored" side of the family -during rammadon you're not supposed to wear jewelry and he didn't wear his wedding ring - didn't wear the American flag pin until recently so he can get re-elected -had the "Muslim brotherhood" into the white house several times - wasn't born in the united states -his middle name is Hussein - 19 vacations in 3 years, taking air force 1, which is $6,000 an hour, using our tax money -people on welfare don't have to look for jobs so they get our hard earned money -reads perfectly from the Quran -went to a Muslim school before he moved to Hawaii - he bowed down the king of Saudi Arabia, and prime minister of Japan - wants to take in god we trust out off of our dollar bills - wants to take "one nation under god" out of the pledge of allegiance - is letting illegal aliens come over into our country without getting deported again. Also known as the dream act - he stated "if you own a business, you didn't build that business" - trying to take out the second amendment right and not let people own and bear arms -he refuses to say "Islamic terrorism" instead he says "man made disasters" - Promoting Sodomite/Gays - Putting world in Poverty - Not staying true to his words - Keeping prices Sky High - Let's not forget driving the economy of this country down the toilet, and causing inflation by printing more money. This is just a short list of what he has done and our jellyfish government has done absolutely nothing but allow this ILLEGAL ALIEN TO CONTINUE SHREDDING OUR CONSTITUTION AND NATION


vveasey profile image

vveasey 4 years ago from Detroit,MI Author

Still waiting for some one to attack the facts I posted about Romney two comments ago


Donny2014 4 years ago

vveasey

I'm waiting too! Still waiting...... still waiting.......

I guess no can attack the facts. They're so plain. And despite the polls being in favor of Barack Obama I'm still seeing hate messages about him. Some people are even going as far to compare him with Jimmy Carter. Why are some people so blind? Even the infamous FOX news showed the President in a 5-point lead in one of the states he needs to win; either Ohio or another. I just know it was a crucial state


vveasey profile image

vveasey 4 years ago from Detroit,MI Author

Yeah Donny2014

the Obama haters just want to spew hate about the president, calling him a Muslim, an Illegal alien anything to to "prove" that he's not legally the president. Why are they so hung up deligitimizing his presidency?

But now matter how much mitt flip-flops and manipulates his taxes they make excuses for him or attack Obama or say nothing.


Donny2014 4 years ago

vveasey

The GOP knows it's gonna lose the election, so they are trying every trick in the book to make sure President Obama doesn't win. they're like a drowning man catching at a straw.

Imagine at the last minute coming up with this voter ID law on the premise that it's to combat voter fraud. Yea right! How come all of a sudden voter fraud is a big issue? And look where they're trying to pass the legislation! They're doing it in the states that the president needs to win and where he's leading at the polls. Doesn't that make you wanna scratch your head? That makes the famous statement, Barack Obama will be a one-term president come to my mind every time. Nothing else than the fact that he's black.

Talking about taking back America and resoring American values. Take America back from who?! And restore what American values? The ones where the rich get richer at the poor man's expense? The ones where if you aren't able to afford to buy health insurance you should die? The president was courageous in passing a health care bill that would ensure that everyone is able to have insurance. Can't afford it! Gimme a break! Can't afford to save lives but can are able to afford to build weapons and planes that take lives. boy I tell you!


Donny2014 4 years ago

MZAZ

You're pathetic. Like others you've allowed hate to blind you so much that you cannot see facts. Why don't you come with some credible events to back up your claim?

Then you have the nerve to invoke the name of God by quoting a Bible scripture. I'm surprised that someone like you who's filled with so much hate actually knows the Lord. It's people like you who cause the world to hate us.


vveasey profile image

vveasey 4 years ago from Detroit,MI Author

Here are some facts I'll keep posting every so often for all those Obama haters who comment on this hub and are going to vote for their boy Mitt and think he's better than President Obama (Ha ha ha ha)

(They could have claimed more in deductions, said Brad Malt, the trustee of Romney's blind trust, but the couple "limited their deductions of charitable contributions to conform to the governor's statement in August, based on the January estimate of income, that he paid at least 13 percent in income taxes in each of the last 10 years."

Romney seemed to be painted into a corner by that statement, which came in reaction to Senate Democratic leader Reid's claim to have heard that the Republican had paid no taxes in some years.

Romney will surely be reminded by the Democrats that he also said in August, defending his right to pay no more taxes than he owed: "I don't pay more than are legally due, and frankly if I had paid more than are legally due I don't think I'd be qualified to become president."

The decision of Romney's trustee to limit his use of charitable deductions in 2011 in order to keep to the candidate's claim that he paid no less than 13 percent taxes in any year over the last decade raised the eyebrows of several tax law experts. They noted that the trustee's use of numerous tax strategies gives Romney the rare ability to loosen or limit his tax payments at will. (don't you wish you could do this)

"It's interesting he didn't take the full charitable deduction," said Victor Fleischer, a University of Colorado law professor who has testified before Congress urging tightened oversight of private equity firms. "You're in a pretty lucky position when you can pay more tax" to get up to a 13 percent rate. Fleischer and several others said it was doubtful Romney could later take any unclaimed deductions in future years.)

So Mitt manipulated his taxes to make it look like he paid more taxes than he was required to pay so he would look like he paid a higher tax rate?

And Republicans are going to vote for this guy and not President Obama?

Why?

Just imgaine what would happen and how they would respond if President Obama had done this?

Romney paid more taxes than he should so by his own admission that makes him not qualifield to be president!

Even more reason why no one in their right mind should vote for Romney not even Mitt Romney himself!

So far no one has stepped forward to defend against these facts about Mitt.

Even Brad Malt, the trustee of Romney's blind trust, said Mitt and his wife manipulated their taxes to make it look like Mitt paid a higher tax rate to accord with the one he lied about paying.

So where all of Obama haters who will defend Mitt against his own lies now?


everyhuman profile image

everyhuman 4 years ago from Beverly Hills, CA

Step it Up or Die

Think about the best teachers, coaches and bosses you have had. The greatest of mine, have been those that demanded of me more than I thought I could do. Obama doesn't have this quality yet. Perhaps not enough experience, or, perhaps he never was on any sports teams - whatever the case, Obama has not acquired the critical leadership skill of leading people up, and the wisdom to know how important that is.

Our founders had to step it up or die, so our country became strong. Human beings by nature will rise to challenge to great degrees. Whatever his wish is, Obama is managing a decline of America through the process of low expectations. When you raise the welfare minimum wage, people will step up and do what they have to do. When you provide healthcare, food, and everything else, people won't step up. As a great leader, your must lead! Lead upwards that is.

So, we all must put aside our personal feelings about Obama, and be wise enough to know that feelings and policy arguments won't keep this country great. Generosity is not generous it if causes the recipient to be less not more. The generous and essential thing we need, is a leader that believes we are better. So, despite the feelings and hopes, you must vote America in Romney so that this managed decline will stop. Without strength, we all fail.


vveasey profile image

vveasey 4 years ago from Detroit,MI Author

everyhuman what is your response to these facts

(They could have claimed more in deductions, said Brad Malt, the trustee of Romney's blind trust, but the couple "limited their deductions of charitable contributions to conform to the governor's statement in August, based on the January estimate of income, that he paid at least 13 percent in income taxes in each of the last 10 years."

Romney seemed to be painted into a corner by that statement, which came in reaction to Senate Democratic leader Reid's claim to have heard that the Republican had paid no taxes in some years.

Romney will surely be reminded by the Democrats that he also said in August, defending his right to pay no more taxes than he owed: "I don't pay more than are legally due, and frankly if I had paid more than are legally due I don't think I'd be qualified to become president."

The decision of Romney's trustee to limit his use of charitable deductions in 2011 in order to keep to the candidate's claim that he paid no less than 13 percent taxes in any year over the last decade raised the eyebrows of several tax law experts. They noted that the trustee's use of numerous tax strategies gives Romney the rare ability to loosen or limit his tax payments at will. (don't you wish you could do this)

"It's interesting he didn't take the full charitable deduction," said Victor Fleischer, a University of Colorado law professor who has testified before Congress urging tightened oversight of private equity firms. "You're in a pretty lucky position when you can pay more tax" to get up to a 13 percent rate. Fleischer and several others said it was doubtful Romney could later take any unclaimed deductions in future years.)

So Mitt manipulated his taxes to make it look like he paid more taxes than he was required to pay so he would look like he paid a higher tax rate?

And Republicans are going to vote for this guy and not President Obama?

Why?

Just imgaine what would happen and how they would respond if President Obama had done this?

Romney paid more taxes than he should so by his own admission that makes him not qualifield to be president!

Even more reason why no one in their right mind should vote for Romney not even Mitt Romney himself!

So far no one has stepped forward to defend against these facts about Mitt.

Even Brad Malt, the trustee of Romney's blind trust, said Mitt and his wife manipulated their taxes to make it look like Mitt paid a higher tax rate to accord with the one he lied about paying.

So where all of Obama haters who will defend Mitt against his own lies now?


Nathan Orf profile image

Nathan Orf 4 years ago from Virginia

vveasey,

You are not going to get any straight answers out of the Obama haters, for the simple reason that they do not think straight. Ask a few moderate Republicans, or maybe even the true conservatives who have taken a backseat to the extremists, and they will probably at least try to answer honestly.

But extremists like MZAZ are fools who will believe anything Rush Limbaugh and the extreme far right tells them. They can not be reasoned with, so there is no point in trying to reason with them.


vveasey profile image

vveasey 4 years ago from Detroit,MI Author

You're right Nathan that's why I usually don't respond to these fools but I was hoping I could see what kind of defense of Mitt they were gonna make...but no such luck..they just want rant on the President.


vveasey profile image

vveasey 4 years ago from Detroit,MI Author

The silence of the Romney lovers to these facts I posted about Romney is Deafening!


Ghost 4 years ago

What is wrong with Everyhuman’s comments about good leadership challenging people to advance and succeed?

I am not very impressed with Romney , but looking at the bigotry and negativity coming from the Obama supports, I don’t get why a normal person would want to listen in?

This looks to be a very popular – and I guess profitable - hub... Is that what is going on? Putting on a show to generate traffic and money?

Looking at the long thread of discussion points, it seems that the conservative hubbers overall did a pretty good job in making legit points.

No offense , but I would have liked to see them debated..

What is the big deal about Romney’s taxes? He is rich from businesses he started. He has many consultants giving him advise. He puts a lot into charity and his Mormon church.

Pres Obama is no longer affiliated with his old church leader J Wright that performed his marriage and baptized his kids. Obama is also fairly rich and pays taxes.

So what ..

It might be more useful to focus on the candidates plans and track record.


Donny2014 4 years ago

vveasey and Nathan

Yup the silence deafening! My ears are starting to hurt from their sounds of silence. Guess none of Mitt Romney's supporters can come up with anything substantial uh?

Here's a link from realclearpolitics where Mr.Obama and Mr. Romney were interviewed.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2012/09/23/...


Donny2014 4 years ago

Ghost

I agree with you that it would be useful to focus on the candidates plan and track record; which does include the paying of taxes. It is a big deal because if any of the candidates is dishonest about the taxes he paid, why should we trust him to lead the country? How do we know he won't be dishonest about other things?

I'm also happy you talked about leadership. Good leadership also entails honesty. That's where tax returns come in. Good leaders are honest and if Mitt Romney has nothing to hide regarding his taxes, he should come right out and show them. I don't get it. The president had to show his birth certificate. Why can't Mitt Romney show his tax returns, and don't tell me it's none of our business please! It is too our business


vveasey profile image

vveasey 4 years ago from Detroit,MI Author

Ghost

You asked "What is the big deal about Romney’s taxes? "

Read this then you tell me

Deal?...Deal!

(They could have claimed more in deductions, said Brad Malt, the trustee of Romney's blind trust, but the couple "limited their deductions of charitable contributions to conform to the governor's statement in August, based on the January estimate of income, that he paid at least 13 percent in income taxes in each of the last 10 years."

Romney seemed to be painted into a corner by that statement, which came in reaction to Senate Democratic leader Reid's claim to have heard that the Republican had paid no taxes in some years.

Romney will surely be reminded by the Democrats that he also said in August, defending his right to pay no more taxes than he owed: "I don't pay more than are legally due, and frankly if I had paid more than are legally due I don't think I'd be qualified to become president."

The decision of Romney's trustee to limit his use of charitable deductions in 2011 in order to keep to the candidate's claim that he paid no less than 13 percent taxes in any year over the last decade raised the eyebrows of several tax law experts. They noted that the trustee's use of numerous tax strategies gives Romney the rare ability to loosen or limit his tax payments at will. (don't you wish you could do this)

"It's interesting he didn't take the full charitable deduction," said Victor Fleischer, a University of Colorado law professor who has testified before Congress urging tightened oversight of private equity firms. "You're in a pretty lucky position when you can pay more tax" to get up to a 13 percent rate. Fleischer and several others said it was doubtful Romney could later take any unclaimed deductions in future years.)

So Mitt manipulated his taxes to make it look like he paid more taxes than he was required to pay so he would look like he paid a higher tax rate?

And Republicans are going to vote for this guy and not President Obama?

Why?

Just imgaine what would happen and how they would respond if President Obama had done this?

Romney paid more taxes than he should so by his own admission that makes him not qualifield to be president!

Even more reason why no one in their right mind should vote for Romney not even Mitt Romney himself!

So far no one has stepped forward to defend against these facts about Mitt.

Even Brad Malt, the trustee of Romney's blind trust, said Mitt and his wife manipulated their taxes to make it look like Mitt paid a higher tax rate to accord with the one he lied about paying.


Ghost 4 years ago

Limiting deductions to charitable contributions for tax purposes… As an issue - Are you kidding?

The “silence is deafening” because any fairly well paid, tax experienced person would not see it as an issue.

Saying he did it solely for the purpose of holding to an earlier statement is conjecture.

Obviously this Brad Malt guy is attacking Romney (his client) for some reason. He doesn’t exactly sound like an honest, dedicated consultant to his client Mitt does he?

Taking credit for less on charitable deductions is common and happens all the time – even for upper middle class income people.

Why do it? Simply to avoid or limit the chance for an IRS audit. I have worked for people who make over $1 million per year and they do this and all kinds of fancy tax moves for different reasons. Limiting charity deduction “tax credits” to a certain level is worth it to limit audit risk. A detailed IRS audit takes time and resources and therefore costs the audited person real money even if innocent of any wrongdoing. Further if the IRS audit did happen and something done elsewhere gets disallowed, the previous, conservative charity tax move can be reversed to help get credits to cover the other actual mistake.

This is simply high level , rich person tax strategy in action. The fact this Brad guy and the media jumped all over it looks like questionable motives are in play unless there is a lot more going on than what you shared.


vveasey profile image

vveasey 4 years ago from Detroit,MI Author

Ghost look at this

The problem with Romney's taxes is he looks like he's being dishonest about how much he's paying

" the couple "limited their deductions of charitable contributions to conform to the governor's statement in August, based on the January estimate of income, that he paid at least 13 percent in income taxes in each of the last 10 years."

Romney paid more taxes than "were legally do" to make it look like he wasn't paying a lower tax rate as he was accused of paying.

So Romney said "defending his right to pay no more taxes than he owed: "I don't pay more than are legally due, and frankly if I had paid more than are legally due I don't think I'd be qualified to become president."

so not only is this dishonest

looks like by his own admission he shouldn't think he's qualifield to be president


Ghost 4 years ago

I still don’t see Romney’s paying around 13% taxes for last 10 years is an issue.

People donate equipment and “assets” to charity. The actual definable value of such items is debatable and a potential audit risk. Romney donated nearly $4 million in various things to charity but only takes credit for a part of it. So far he released 2010 and 2011 returns. They are over 1,000 pages long and obviously prepared by others at not Romney himself.

If Romney has been doing this partial credit for charity donations over the years, are we supposed to believe that he was planning to deceive the people when he ran for President by secretly overpaying on his taxes for the last 10 years to try and look like a more normal taxpayer?..is that it?

The worst we could say was that he might be “dishonestly honest” regarding his taxes - maybe? Besides all know he is a super rich guy anyway.. This whole tax deal looks trumped up. Both sides do it all the time. I don’t see the “meat” of it. There are many other better issues than this regarding Romney.


vveasey profile image

vveasey 4 years ago from Detroit,MI Author

So Romney lying about paying a higher tax rate than he really paid to make himself look good to the public to up his chances of being elected is not a problem for you?

You say" The fact this Brad guy and the media jumped all over it looks like questionable motives are in play unless there is a lot more going on than what you shared"

Has Romney said that "this Brad guy" is lying?


Donny2014 4 years ago

vveasey

Mitt lying about his taxes or hiding something as important as that is not a big deal? How can that be? Isn't honesty supposed to be a factor in running for the White House?

I don't get it. Why shouldn't it be a big deal?


Mark 4 years ago

Because socialism doesn't work.


vveasey profile image

vveasey 4 years ago from Detroit,MI Author

I don't get it either!

I guess Romney is just so great to them his lying, flip flopping and other faults

just fade in comparison!


Mark 4 years ago

Well, I think you're about to see Obama (the black Jimmy Carter Jr.) spanked in the election. We'll see. There are an awful lot of commonalities.


vveasey profile image

vveasey 4 years ago from Detroit,MI Author

Mark

what's so great about Romney?

Is there anything about Romney you don't like?


Donny2014 4 years ago

vveasey

I don't know if it's worth arguing with Mark because he's just coming up with the most absurd stuff it's not funny. Socialism? Oh please.


vveasey profile image

vveasey 4 years ago from Detroit,MI Author

I posting this from the ABC News site

Headline reads

"Criticism of Romney's Campaign Grows; Six in 10 Rate His Efforts Negatively"

Public criticism of Mitt Romney's race for the White House has risen sharply, with six in 10 Americans expressing a negative opinion of how he's handling his campaign and a majority responding unfavorably to his comments on people who don't pay income taxes.

Sixty-one percent in a new ABC News/Washington Post poll hold an unfavorable view of how Romney's handling his presidential campaign, up by 12 percentage points since mid-July. Far fewer, 35 percent, rate Romney's performance positively, essentially unchanged.

See PDF with full results, charts and tables here.

Barack Obama's ratings for handling his campaign are substantially better, 54-43 percent, favorable-unfavorable. And while ratings of Romney's campaign have grown more negative, favorable ratings of Obama's campaign efforts have gained 8 points since July.

These ratings follow controversy last week about Romney's remark at a Florida fundraiser that 47 percent of Americans don't pay income taxes, see themselves as "victims" and lack personal responsibility. Fifty-four percent in this survey, produced for ABC by Langer Research Associates, see his "recent comments about people who don't pay income taxes" negatively; 32 percent respond favorably, with the rest unsure.

There's also an intensity problem for Romney: Americans disproportionately see his handling of his campaign "strongly" unfavorably rather than strongly favorably, 36 percent vs. 10 percent; it's a similar split on his comment on those who don't pay taxes. Strong sentiment on Obama's campaign, by contrast, is evenly balanced.

As damaging as Romney's remark may have been, it appears not to be solely responsible for Romney's weak grade on handling his campaign, since ratings of his campaign performance overall are 7 points more negative than are responses to that comment. Indeed, even among those who see the "47 percent" remark favorably, nearly three in 10 also respond negatively to Romney's handling of his campaign overall.

In a sign of particular trouble for Romney, negative views of his campaign have grown by 18 points since midsummer among independents, who often are swing voters. In July, 46 percent of independents rated Romney's handling of his campaign negatively; it's 64 percent today. Romney's positive score among independents, at 32 percent, far trails Obama's, 50 percent.

Even among Republicans, more than one in four rates Romney's efforts negatively - 27 percent. While essentially unchanged since July, that's substantially more than the share of Democrats who respond negatively to Obama's work on his campaign, 11 percent.

As well as among independents, negative views of Romney's handling of his campaign have grown especially sharply among adults under age 40 - up by 23 points since July, to 69 percent negative - and among women, with negative responses up by 18 points. And there's a large gap among income groups: a 16-point rise in negative ratings of Romney's campaign among people with household incomes less than $100,000 a year, vs. essentially no change among those with incomes of $100,000 or more.

Less than well-off adults also are more critical of Romney's "47 percent" comment, responding negatively rather than positively by 57-28 percent. Those with incomes of $100,000 or more, by contrast, divide evenly - they're 18 points more supportive of the remark.

Obama, for his part, gets especially positive grades for handling his campaign, 60 percent, from people with household incomes of $50,000 or less; that falls to less than half of those who are better off financially. Still his rating is 17 points better than Romney's even in the $50,000-$100,000 range; only among $100,000-plus earners does Romney's campaign rival Obama's.

Among other groups, Obama's campaign efforts are rated positively by majorities of women, adults younger than 40, moderates (as well as liberals) and (especially) nonwhites; those compare with even splits among men and among people 40 and older. Among whites, Obama's 45-51 percent rating, favorable-unfavorable, is not positive - but beats Romney's 39-56 percent.

While these results are among all adults, they're essentially identical among those who report being registered to vote: Negative on Romney's campaign by 61-36 percent; negative on his tax comment by 54-33 percent; and positive on Obama's campaign efforts by 53-45 percent.


Donny2014 4 years ago

vveasey

Amen brother! I mean even a two-year-old could figure that out. At this stage of the game with Obama above water there seems to be little hope that Mitt Romney will win this election. And it's not the so-called negative ads that are causing it. He's doing it to himself. Doesn't he think before he opens his mouth?

Then this thing about balancing the budget. If he cuts taxes for the wealthy, cuts social programs and uses that money to build up the military; oops I forgot repeal Obamacare, where do you think the rest of the money will come from? Who's taxes will go up? Take a wild guess. Simple mathematics.


vveasey profile image

vveasey 4 years ago from Detroit,MI Author

Donny2014

You asked "Doesn't he think before he opens his mouth?"

I would ask that about his whole team!

But I think Mitt does think before he opens his mouth...this just shows how out of touch his thinking and experience is with those who aren't like him.


Donny2014 4 years ago

vveasey

Nearly every poll; including FOX has the President leading by at least six points. At this late stage things aren't exactly looking good for Romney even though election day is still aways from here and stuff can happen, but as of now; many commentators are saying it's not looking good.

To me it's like being in college and always getting bad grades throughout the quarter or semester which tends to make up a large portion of the final grade which makes it really difficult to get a passing grade even if the student gets a really high exam grade. Romney so close to election is polling very badly so it's almost unlikely that he'll win. The GOP knows it! Why do you think they're doing everything to make sure he doesn't win? I think the American people are catching on and seeing every day how out of touch Mitt Romney is


vveasey profile image

vveasey 4 years ago from Detroit,MI Author

Agreed!


Prudent 4 years ago

Are you kidding? Black or White, how can you defend a president who trounces on our constitutionally protected rights? Are you yourself crazy or just blind? Seriously, real people suffered and died so that we could be free from a tyrannical government. Our 1776 war of Independence was a gruesome sight to behold, even women and children suffered so. How can you not understand how important our constitution is? If you support any politician, including Obama, then you better be darn sure they are protecting and upholding or constitution. If they do not, then you MUST not support them and their policies. For if you do, then you too are guilty of trouncing on our constitutionally protected rights.

Obama is not a patriot. Just examine his record. Among the many "bad" things he has done, the following one really gets to me: he ordered the assassination of American citizens. What kind of leader does this? Only a dictator...only a dictator. Even if these citizens were truly guilty of horrendous crimes against humanity, Obama is not God and thus cannot and should not be judge and jury over another human life. But I guess you think its okay. I'm sure you'll find a way to rationalize Obama's actions. So the question remains: are you crazy or just blind?


vveasey profile image

vveasey 4 years ago from Detroit,MI Author

Prudent

Interesting comments!

You say "Seriously, real people suffered and died so that we could be free from a tyrannical government." True

But all or most of these founding fathers were rich slave owning plantation owners. So while they fought for their freedom they denied the enslaved Africans their freedom.

You say " he ordered the assassination of American citizens." Weren't these citizens plotting with our enemies to attack Americans and the United States?


Kyle 4 years ago

Obama got a serious beat down in last week's debate and it's Biden's turn in a few hours.


vveasey profile image

vveasey 4 years ago from Detroit,MI Author

Kyle

WRONG! Ha ha ha ha ha!


Fed Up 4 years ago

I feel that it's a serious embarrassment to The United States to allow rightwing extremism to play a role in governmental policies. It's been proven, time and time again, that their ideology is garbage!! They need to wake up'! Vote for Obama!


katieFly100 4 years ago

Firstly, as I understand it, "to teabag" is a term for a homosexual practice. So negatively assigning the tag to the Tea Party implies a bias against homosexual practices on your part. This would seem to contradict Obama and the left's view that what homos do is OK and should be sanctioned by society. So the framework of your question is inconsistent. Aside from that, the vast vast majority Tea Party members are concerned mainly with fiscal matters and not social ones such as abortion rights or homos marrying. Those thing literally never come up in Tea Party meetings, rallies and literature. As to why a lot of Americans, Tea Party members included, are fed up with Obama and the Democrats is because they see their policies as ruining the country fiscally and robbing the future from their kids and grand kids. It is almost entirely about fiscal issues and nothing else. The Tea Party would support Obama or anybody else who pushed for fiscal reform and for paying our bills and for getting America on track economically. That is what it all comes down to with the Tea Party and actually with most conservatives. They don't like gay marriage mostly. They don't like unrestricted abortion mostly. Neither of those issues or similar ones are deal breakers. It is all about fiscal responsibility. Everybody likes Obama. He's cool. He just isn't doing such a great job for the country. So a lot of people, although they like him and his family, don't like him as President. It is as simple as that.


vveasey profile image

vveasey 4 years ago from Detroit,MI Author

katieFl

Tea Baggers doesn't mean to teabag it mean Tea Baggers.

So everything you've attributed in your comments to me related to my use of Tea Baggers is false.

Obviously you more up on the homosexual terms than I am

You say "Everybody likes Obama. He's cool."

That statement is so false it's counterfeit!

Just click this link and you see what I mean

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S38VioxnBaI


katieFly100 4 years ago

I never heard of the term until Obama used it pre 2010 election. When he did the TV press talked about what it implied. Don't asked me, that's all I know about it. As far as the "Everybody likes Obama", that is a generalization but what I meant was the typical American who responds positively to any marketing campaign for a consumer item - cars, movies, Nike sneakers, car insurance - is usually presented with an attractive, articulate spokesman. Politics is marketing and Obama is the perfect product to sell. And he is cool in a marketing sense. For example, I can't define cool, but probably if you asked a 100 people if Henry Kissinger was cool you would get 95 no's. I bet Obama would get 85% yes - he is laid back, plays sports, trots up to the podium, is up on the popular culture. Ditto Bill Clinton. Mitt Romney, Biden, Ryan - no, not cool. As far as your video reference, whoever those people are, they don't have anything to do with Tea Party. There are nutcases everyplace. I guarantee if that was an actual Tea Party rally that no acknowledgement whatsoever was paid to those people's views. They just were there. What can you do with them - it's a free country. So you can believe what you want but the Tea Party is not about much of anything except fiscal responsibility for the country and the majority of the people who show up at the rallies are just Americans who have a view about the future of America and are voicing it. No use continuing - you hate the folks you call "tea baggers" so that's just the way it is.


Jim 4 years ago

@katieFly100

If you asked 100 Americans if Henry Kissinger was cool, 95 would ask "who the Hell is Henry Kissinger?"


vveasey profile image

vveasey 4 years ago from Detroit,MI Author

Jim

you're right.

Katiefly100

I don't hate tea baggers. Iook at this video and you'll see what I hate that they do.

just click this link and you see what I mean

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S38VioxnBaI


Jim 4 years ago

I didn't mean to say that not knowing who Henry Kissinger was is a good thing. Americans just don't appreciate history. Just look at the liberals and Obama supporters.


vveasey profile image

vveasey 4 years ago from Detroit,MI Author

Jim

I wasn't saying it was a good thing either.

When you say Americans don't appreciate history, without quantifying it, that means all Americans.

I would say that many American don't appreciate history (that's quantifying it)

You say Americans don't appreciate history then you go of track and imply it's liberals and Obama supporters who do this.

Which is contradictory and not true because conservatives and Romney supporters are definitely included in the Americans who don't appreciate history, unless you're saying they aren't Americans.


Katiefly100 4 years ago

Jim - Pretty funny. you are right. Kissinger wasn't the greatest example. I went to a few Tea Party rallies here and the people there were so nice it was like visiting Grandma. I didn't see any racist Obama haters and goofball signs. In fact the guy leading the event at the podium was a black guy. Everybody was complaining about Congress spending too much and worrying about their grand children's future. Obama was mentioned but only along with the Congress and also Bush was thrown in for spending up the deficit and for the unpaid war. I would say that the majority of the people were Republicans and Conservatives. But not everybody was - I know that for a fact. So I was left with the opinion that these people were actually just citizens ticked off about the deficit. If Tea Parties in other cities are right-wing goons and Obama haters then I guess I can't speak to that. Sorry if I upset your Hub Page.


vveasey profile image

vveasey 4 years ago from Detroit,MI Author

Katiefly100

You're not upsetting my hub page

you're just expressing your viewpoint.

So there may be tea baggers who aren't racist as well as those who are obliviously racist and aren't afraid to show it... and are proud to show it, as that video proves.


Carl 4 years ago

I am one of those people who has nothing good to say about the current president. This wasn’t always the case, but at the moment, I have to say that Obama sucks. I am not sure that anything has really gotten better under him. I kind of appreciated the ambition of that whole healthcare system he was working on, but I think it was kind of naïve and short-sighted. It’s almost as if the entire thing was just some sort of marketing piece. I consider the President of the United States to primarily be a mouthpiece and a representative, and as that, Obama is pretty good. After all, he is about as good of a public speaker as you can get.

However, at the same time, the President of the United States needs to be able to get things done, and Obama hasn’t. Are you familiar with the promise that Obama made about helping out Darfur if he went into office? Darfur has a genocide going on, and has had one going on for years. Obama promised that if he got into office that he would do something about it, and the truth is, the United States could do something fairly easily. But at the end of the day, Obama hasn’t done anything about it. Why? I’m not sure, but at the moment I’m just going with the answer that Obama sucks.


Luther 4 years ago

I will never forget my dingbat sister saying that she was going to vote for Obama (despite claiming to be a Hannitized conservative) because he would do a lot for black families.

This was before her no good black husband took his black self out of the picture, leaving her and their child to fend for themselves with no support and my sister unemployed. I keep wanting to ask her if Obama has sent her a check or something or stopped by to babysit while she looked for work.


vveasey profile image

vveasey 4 years ago from Detroit,MI Author

Luther

you're obviously hostile and angry and sound somewhat racist.

You say "I keep wanting to ask her if Obama has sent her a check or something or stopped by to babysit while she looked for work."

This comment is ludicrous.


vveasey profile image

vveasey 4 years ago from Detroit,MI Author

Carl

You're right President Obama hasn't gotten a lot of the things that he wanted to get done, done.

A big part of the reason for that is Mitch McConnell and the house republicans saying their number one goal was to make President Obama a one term president by opposing and voting no on his jobs bill and any bill that would make him look good in the public eye.


Fed Up 4 years ago

I think many Americans, in particular, conservatives , tea party members, and any other right wing affiliates, are seriously misleading themselves if they believe President Obama is responsible for the current deficit and unemployment rate. For the ones that are literate enough, they need to do research on the irresponsible and corrupt agenda of the past administration, under George Bush Jr. Junior really caused some serious problems for the American economy. For those of you who believe that President Obama's policies will leave the U.S. in debt for generations to come, you need to take into consideration what the outcome will be with a Romney/Ryan administration! Higher deficits, higher unemployment, more outsourcing of jobs, low wages, and the possible elimination of social security, Medicare, medicaid, and other programs for the elderly, the mentally and physically disabled, and impoverished children. Oops! I forgot! The rich individuals and corporations cannot be burdened with higher taxes. Well, what happened with the "trickle-down economics" approach of the Bush administration? A TOTAL DISASTER!!


TwoTermz 4 years ago

vveasey - Thank you for writing this hub. It was informative and enlightening.

Donny2014 & Nathan - The facts you guys posted are astounding and informative as well.

With that being said, I still feel that the initial question that this hub set out to ask still has not been answered yet (unless I've missed it or have completely been oblivious). I voted for Barack Hussein Obama II (yes, he's named for his father) back in 2008 because 1. I felt that change was needed from the one-sided nature that the Bush/Cheney administration had shoved down our throats and forced us to embrace. 2. Because the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan were raging on full blast and needed to come to an end and with the then-current administration in place, it wasn't going to. (BTW, my very own father was a Desert Storm veteran and Vietnam veteran). And 3. I felt that he could turn the economy around. And to answer the most obvious, but irrelevant question. No, I didn't vote for him because he's black. That is the most absurd reason for voting for anyone.

Has all of that happened? No. Do I blame President Obama? Hell no.

There is a little thing in the United States Constitution that calls for a "Checks and Balances System" within the government. That means that the 3 branches of government: Exective, Legislative and Judicial (i.e. the President, Congress and Supreme Court respectively) have to check each other in order to keep one from overpowering the other two.

With THAT being said, I quote what was said earlier - "A big part of the reason for that is Mitch McConnell and the house republicans saying their number one goal was to make President Obama a one term president by opposing and voting no on his jobs bill and any bill that would make him look good in the public eye." This is a bad thing. Being the President of the United States, Obama has the power to veto decisions he feels will not benefit the country. People forget this fact. Truthfully, he could have vetoed everything that Congress blocked and push it through. Unfortunately, that would make him very unpopular and they would calling for an impeachment, that considering that if he did veto that much, the Supreme Court would probably uphold the impeachment vote.

People tend to forget about Bush and what he did to ruin this country. Two wars on two fronts. They just happened to be in the same part of the world. He gave tax breaks to companies that were shipping jobs overseas or even down to Mexico (partially Bill Clinton's fault as well).

Bill Clinton, despite all his shortcomings, left this country with a SURPLUS of funds. 'Surplus' means 'what remains when use or need is satisfied,' but Bush ran through that and then some with a war that wasn't even necessary.

Where was the Tea Party when this was happening? Where were the people calling for Bush's death when he AND Congress voted to go to war with Iraq? And to those who are going to debate this, please do. I welcome it because I gather my facts before I say ANYTHING at all. But during all that, I didn't HATE the man for what he did. I didn't like what he did to this country.


Bob 4 years ago

Those that say Obama inherited a mess are ignorant of the facts. The collapse of the economy was caused by the collapse of the housing market, the seed planted by Jimmy Carter when he signed into law the 1977 Family Reinvestment act that forced banks to make loans to unqualified borrowers--its initial purpose was to stop red-lining. However, at that time banks could not bundle such mortgages and sell to Wall Street, but Clinton changed that in 1997, and the head of HUd, now Gov. Cuomo, accelerated the lending of toxic loans which lead to the sub prime debacle. during Bush's two terms he attempted to submit 8 bills to handle the looming crisis but every one was put down by the democrats.

Obama didn't inherit the crisis, he and his party created it, and is now perpetuating it by doing everything he can to destroy the economy.


TwoTermz 4 years ago

Now, I don't want to knit-pick your words, but saying 'he and his party' created the crisis, you are talking about Jimmy Carter and not Barack Obama, right?

Because if I am not mistaken, there were steps being put into place to prevent said 'toxic loans' from being offered during this current administrative term. I'd say it would be fixing the problems of the past.

And apparently those who have been in power since 1977 (Obama wasn't even out of high school by then) didn't see a problem with it.

Why is it such a big deal now? Why is it that until this president that all of the nation's ills are being brought to light?


Bob 4 years ago

@TwoTermz

Again dipshit, George Bush tryed to prevent the crisis brought on by Democrat legislation.


TwoTermz 4 years ago

Resorting to name calling isn't going to help you make your case.

Besides, I'd like to see where you're getting your info from.


Donny2014 4 years ago

@Bob

I'd say you're the one who's ignorant of the facts. The economic meltdown was caused by trickle-down economics that destroyed the middle-class. The middle-class is the backbone of any economy. If they're destroyed, that's it.

Also don't forget about the two wars that were started by the previous administration. Where do you think all that money came from to pay for the wars? Who do you think suffered? Take a wild guess.

@TwoTermz That comment was greatly appreciated. And you yourself just reminded us that the President can do so much and no more; thanks to the system in the Constitution called Checks and Balances. Those of you who keep saying the President broke his promises, go and read the Constitution. Also bear in mind that Mitch Daniels said he wanted to make Barack Obama a one-term president. The GOP stood in the way of nearly everything he proposed to Congress and now they got the nerve to turn around and blame the president?

And @Fed Up, you also gave us some valuable information. It's too bad some of us close our minds to these facts. Why? I don't know.


vveasey profile image

vveasey 4 years ago from Detroit,MI Author

Donny

just and FYI

it was Mitch McConnell who said that.


Donny2014 4 years ago

vveasey

Oops! Thanks for the correction. Mitch Daniels, in case you're reading this, my profound apologies. I really hope that those of us who wanted Barack Obama to be a one-term president DO NOT get their wish.

The chickens are now coming home to roost. Mitt Romney's lies are finally catching up to him. I hope we're smart enough to realize that. I hope someone brings up the famous 47 percent. How's he gonna get outta this one?


vveasey profile image

vveasey 4 years ago from Detroit,MI Author

Donny

no apology needed we all can mis-associate someone's name. I've done it many, many times!

Yep the 47 percent, now Mitt's for the 100 percent, Ryan criticizing the stimulus act but taking stimulus money etc, etc. these guy's are hypocrites par excellence!

How can anyone vote for them?


Paco 4 years ago

Take a look at the numbers, sans commentary, and make your own judgment about whether Barack Obama deserves another term in office.

1) Real median household income is down $4300 since Obama took office.

2) The percentage of unemployed workers who’ve been out of a job for more than a year is over 30%.

3) The country has had the longest streak of +8% unemployment since the Depression under Obama: 39 months and counting.

4) In 2011 under Barack Obama, nearly one out of every seven Americans was on food stamps. That’s a 70 percent increase from 2007.

5) Fifty percent of new college graduates are underemployed or unemployed.

6) U.S. home ownership is at a decade long low. So is the number of Americans who say their home is worth more than they paid for it. Home prices are the lowest they’ve been since 2002.

7) Barack Obama ended NASA’s manned space program.

8) Going into this election cycle, Barack Obama had raised more money from Wall Street than any President in history. He has also raised more money from Wall Street than all of the GOP presidential contenders combined in this election cycle.

9) Under Barack Obama’s leadership, the last time Harry Reid and the Senate Democrats passed a budget was April 9, 2009.

10) Barack Obama’s budget was defeated 414-0 in the House and 99-0 in the Senate.

11) When he was running for President in 2008, Barack Obama pledged not to raise taxes on families making less than 250,000 dollars per year. He broke that promise with the tanning salon tax and with Obamacare, which raises almost 500 billion dollars in new taxes, a significant portion of which would be paid by people making less than 250,000 dollars per year.

12) When Barack Obama took office, gas was $1.95 per gallon. Today gas is $3.72 per gallon.

13) In February of this year, the federal government had a 229 billion dollar deficit. That was the largest deficit in the history of the United States.

14) America lost its AAA credit rating (which it had held since 1917) on Obama’s watch despite the fact that Timothy Geithner publicly said there was “no risk” of that happening.

15) Barack Obama added more to the debt in just 38 months than George Bush did in two full terms as President.


Paco 4 years ago

I'm sure the 47% statement will come up tonight. The problem is that's it's true. People who don't pay taxes and are getting government subsidies will not vote for him. They'll vote for Obama in hope of getting more gree money.

Also, let's see how Obama explains Libya.


Donny2014 4 years ago

@Paco

Your puerile right-wing propaganda is totally astounding. I'd like to know where you get your facts from. Oh, you probably got them from FOX news and Rush Limbaugh.

Then you have the audacity to call say that the 47 percent; which includes disabled veterans, who fought for the US; put themselves in harm's way to defend people like you people who want to vote for President Obama so they can get more free money! You know what, the only proper word I can find to describe people like is despicable. Oh my God man! And don't worry about how he'll explain Libya. He'll tell the truth.


Paco 4 years ago

@Donny

I'm a 70% disabled veteran and I'm voting Romney. Don't try to put us in the same boat as the inner-city welfare queens and don't use veterans to atempt to shame people into believing your bullshit.


Donny2014 4 years ago

@ Paco

You truly are a DISGRACE!! You're rude and you're obnoxious! And please watch your language when you're speaking to me. DON NOT use those words when speaking to me.

I don't care who you are. You're still very ignorant of your facts. Mitt Romney wasn't specific with his 47 percent. He meant those who receive social security after working for many years. He was calling everyone who receives handouts of any kind people who are not responsible.

You know what, I'm not gonna argue with you anymore. As I said before, you really make me sick. And go wash your mouth out with disinfectant please!!! I'll report you as being abusive. Disgrace!


Donny2014 4 years ago

@vveasey

Is there a way you could get this Paco guy's comment removed or something? See how he's being really obnoxious and abusive? I swear to God... no it's no use. He's not worth my time. Call himself a veteran! He's giving the rest of them a bad name. Seriously! And I think he's a troll as well


Paco 4 years ago

@Donny

I am a veteran and you are obviously not. Dont use veterans to try to get your point across.


Paco 4 years ago

@vveasey

You deleted my comment beacuse I did not agree with your liberal friend trying to bring veterans into his welfare argument.

I'm not calling myself a veteran as Donny stated. I am a veteran because I spent 10 years in the military. The truth is that most active duty officers and most enlistees who serve more than one enlistment vote Republican. The majority of those folks continue to vote Republican when they leave the military whether they are disabled or not. I'm sure there will be a veteran that reads this that may want to disagree and I will respect his opinion, but I have no compassion for someone who has never served trying to use us in a welfare argument.


vveasey profile image

vveasey 4 years ago from Detroit,MI Author

Ok

Paco

and Donny

(and anyone else reading this)

can't we disagree without getting angry and using insulting or foul language toward those we disagree with, and have a civil discussion and if we can't agree, agree to disagree and leave it at that?


Donny2014 4 years ago

@vveasey

Could you write that again please? Even I need to hear it because I'm guilty of the same thing. I agree 100 percent with you but I won't say much more because I'm guilty just as much as anyone else here might be.

@Paco

You don't know me so you're not in a position to say who you think I am or who you think I'm not.

I can't wait till this election season is over


Paco 4 years ago

@vveasey

Agreed.

@Donny

I'm not sure what you were trying to say in your last post.


vveasey profile image

vveasey 4 years ago from Detroit,MI Author

Thank-You Gentlemen!


Vickt1790580 4 years ago

It's definitely his race, and the guilt of their forefathers. These people can't imagine that after the way Black people were/are treated that Obama would not, could not be out to destroy them. The fear is just that strong. The thing that they cannot realize is that Black folk just want life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Just like everyone else. We do not spend our days plotting revenge. It's over.


vveasey profile image

vveasey 4 years ago from Detroit,MI Author

Vickt1790580

Thanks for your comments

You're one of the few who've actually answered

the question posed by this hub


vveasey profile image

vveasey 4 years ago from Detroit,MI Author

To underscore the point of this hub that racial attitudes didn't magically change or get better, because a black man, Barack Obama was elected president. Here's a article that proves my point.

WASHINGTON (AP) October, 27 2012 — Racial attitudes have not improved in the four years since the United States elected its first black president, an Associated Press poll finds, as a slight majority of Americans now express prejudice toward blacks whether they recognize those feelings or not.

Those views could cost President Barack Obama votes as he tries for re-election, the survey found, though the effects are mitigated by some Americans' more favorable views of blacks.

Racial prejudice has increased slightly since 2008 whether those feelings were measured using questions that explicitly asked respondents about racist attitudes, or through an experimental test that measured implicit views toward race without asking questions about that topic directly.

In all, 51 percent of Americans now express explicit anti-black attitudes, compared with 48 percent in a similar 2008 survey. When measured by an implicit racial attitudes test, the number of Americans with anti-black sentiments jumped to 56 percent, up from 49 percent during the last presidential election. In both tests, the share of Americans expressing pro-black attitudes fell.

"As much as we'd hope the impact of race would decline over time ... it appears the impact of anti-black sentiment on voting is about the same as it was four years ago," said Jon Krosnick, a Stanford University professor who worked with AP to develop the survey.

Most Americans expressed anti-Hispanic sentiments, too. In an AP survey done in 2011, 52 percent of non-Hispanic whites expressed anti-Hispanic attitudes. That figure rose to 57 percent in the implicit test. The survey on Hispanics had no past data for comparison.

The AP surveys were conducted with researchers from Stanford University, the University of Michigan and NORC at the University of Chicago.

Experts on race said they were not surprised by the findings.

"We have this false idea that there is uniformity in progress and that things change in one big step. That is not the way history has worked," said Jelani Cobb, professor of history and director of the Institute for African-American Studies at the University of Connecticut. "When we've seen progress, we've also seen backlash."

Obama himself has tread cautiously on the subject of race, but many African-Americans have talked openly about perceived antagonism toward them since Obama took office. As evidence, they point to events involving police brutality or cite bumper stickers, cartoons and protest posters that mock the president as a lion or a monkey, or lynch him in effigy.

"Part of it is growing polarization within American society," said Fredrick Harris, director of the Institute for Research in African-American Studies at Columbia University. "The last Democrat in the White House said we had to have a national discussion about race. There's been total silence around issues of race with this president. But, as you see, whether there is silence, or an elevation of the discussion of race, you still have polarization. It will take more generations, I suspect, before we eliminate these deep feelings."

Overall, the survey found that by virtue of racial prejudice, Obama could lose 5 percentage points off his share of the popular vote in his Nov. 6 contest against Republican challenger Mitt Romney. However, Obama also stands to benefit from a 3 percentage point gain due to pro-black sentiment, researchers said. Overall, that means an estimated net loss of 2 percentage points due to anti-black attitudes.

The poll finds that racial prejudice is not limited to one group of partisans. Although Republicans were more likely than Democrats to express racial prejudice in the questions measuring explicit racism (79 percent among Republicans compared with 32 percent among Democrats), the implicit test found little difference between the two parties. That test showed a majority of both Democrats and Republicans held anti-black feelings (55 percent of Democrats and 64 percent of Republicans), as did about half of political independents (49 percent).

Obama faced a similar situation in 2008, the survey then found.

The Associated Press developed the surveys to measure sensitive racial views in several ways and repeated those studies several times between 2008 and 2012.

The explicit racism measures asked respondents whether they agreed or disagreed with a series of statements about black and Hispanic people. In addition, the surveys asked how well respondents thought certain words, such as "friendly," ''hardworking," ''violent" and "lazy," described blacks, whites and Hispanics.

The same respondents were also administered a survey designed to measure implicit racism, in which a photo of a black, Hispanic or white male flashed on the screen before a neutral image of a Chinese character. The respondents were then asked to rate their feelings toward the Chinese character. Previous research has shown that people transfer their feelings about the photo onto the character, allowing researchers to measure racist feelings even if a respondent does not acknowledge them.

Results from those questions were analyzed with poll takers' ages, partisan beliefs, views on Obama and Romney and other factors, which allowed researchers to predict the likelihood that people would vote for either Obama or Romney. Those models were then used to estimate the net impact of each factor on the candidates' support.

All the surveys were conducted online. Other research has shown that poll takers are more likely to share unpopular attitudes when they are filling out a survey using a computer rather than speaking with an interviewer. Respondents were randomly selected from a nationally representative panel maintained by GfK Custom Research.

Overall results from each survey have a margin of sampling error of approximately plus or minus 4 percentage points. The most recent poll, measuring anti-black views, was conducted Aug. 30 to Sept. 11.

Andra Gillespie, an Emory University political scientist who studies race-neutrality among black politicians, contrasted the situation to that faced by the first black mayors elected in major U.S. cities, the closest parallel to Obama's first-black situation. Those mayors, she said, typically won about 20 percent of the white vote in their first races, but when seeking reelection they enjoyed greater white support presumably because "the whites who stayed in the cities ... became more comfortable with a black executive."

"President Obama's election clearly didn't change those who appear to be sort of hard-wired folks with racial resentment," she said.

Negative racial attitudes can manifest in policy, noted Alan Jenkins, an assistant solicitor general during the Clinton administration and now executive director of the Opportunity Agenda think tank.

"That has very real circumstances in the way people are treated by police, the way kids are treated by teachers, the way home seekers are treated by landlords and real estate agents," Jenkins said.

Hakeem Jeffries, a New York state assemblyman and candidate for a congressional seat being vacated by a fellow black Democrat, called it troubling that more progress on racial attitudes had not been made. Jeffries has fought a New York City police program of "stop and frisk" that has affected mostly blacks and Latinos but which supporters contend is not racially focused.

"I do remain cautiously optimistic that the future of America bends toward the side of increased racial tolerance," Jeffries said. "We've come a long way, but clearly these results demonstrate there's a long way to go."


vveasey profile image

vveasey 4 years ago from Detroit,MI Author

The Republican Party is full of Racists

"Col. Lawrence Wilkerson, a self-identified Republican who was Gen. Colin Powell's chief of staff during his time as secretary of state, did not take too kindly to a recent accusation -- from Mitt Romney's controversial campaign co-chair John Sununu -- that Powell only endorsed Barack Obama for president because they're both black. Sununu would later backtrack, but the damage was done.

Wilkerson, who is white, didn't mince words on MSNBC'sThe Ed Show Friday night. "To say that Colin Powell would endorse President Obama because of his skin color is like saying Mother Teresa worked for profit," he said. And although he gave Sununu a bit of a pass, blaming his statement on an "unfortunate" choice of words, Wilkerson had much harsher words for the GOP as a whole.

"Let me just be candid," he said. "My party is full of racists. And the real reason a considerable portion of my party wants President Obama out of the White House has nothing to do with the content of his character, nothing to do with his competence as commander in chief and president, and everything to do with the color of his skin. And that's despicable."

from the Root webpage http://www.theroot.com/buzz/former-powell-chief-st...


James 4 years ago

I can't see how T Party (Taxed Enough Already) can be called racist for not liking the socialist agenda of a clearly socialist President. I am not and never will be a racist, (put that card away , seriously there are racist people on both sides), but I will also never trust socialism. I work hard for my money and it is mine to do with what I please. If you think you can take it away from me by taxes you are right and that is why we don't like him.


vveasey profile image

vveasey 4 years ago from Detroit,MI Author

James

Of course you can't see how the Tea party can be called racist because you're either in it or sympathize with their views.

But that said. There isn't just one tea party. There are many groups calling themselve the tea party. So I agree all of them aren't racist but many people who say they're in the tea party are.

see this video about those tea party folks who are proudly racist. click this link

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S38VioxnBaI


Ed 4 years ago

There's plenty of reasons to hate Obama... but the most prominent is the fact that he's a goddam liberal, and not just a little liberal... oh no, he's a BIG one. He's following his liberal pipe dreams straight down the crapper, and he'll take us all with him if he can.

If i may digress a little here... I can't stand you thoughtless hippy pricks. My wife had a McCain sticker on her car and some liberal jerk peeled it off and keyed her car. You're all so into peace and love, yet you scream obscenities at McCain rallies, and in front of your children no less. I don't go around slashing the tires of all the dick heads driving around with the "I didn't vote for him" or "not my president" stickers on their car... You're all so bitter when you don't win, so prepare to be even more bitter in November, when your shoe-in, racist, liberal candidate doesn't fare as well as the media is telling you he is.

I've noticed you dems have no legitimate complaints about McCain, so you resort to bad-mouthing Sara Palin, "she doesn't have experience". I guess experience is only important for the VP, not the actual President of the United States. On the job training should suffice for that, am I right?

And the fact that you're constantly playing the "if you don't vote Obama, it's because you're racist" is really making me sick. How many black people will go to the polls and mark Obama blindly because he's a black candidate, with no regard to his or their own political views whatsoever? How is that not racist? So then why is it so racist if a white person avoids voting Obama based on similar reasoning?

All you democrats are being hoodwinked, you think you're being so progressive and "open-minded". IF, and I hope this doesn't happen, but if Obama is elected, you'll all see what a poor choice you've made, but you'll be too arrogant to admit it and the press will be too high and mighty to realize it. Just like Clinton, who literally televised lies to us in our homes. But that was just a hummer right. Who cares if he lied to us? Everyone cheats on their wife right?

So all you dems can keep kissing Obamas ass, and talking about how "forward-thinking" and "insightful" he is... I don't buy it for a second. You can continue to digest the same crap you've been force-fed by the media, and it'll taste that much more bitter in a weeks time when you realize you've lost... again. And we can look forward to more whiny bumper stickers attached to hybrid cars driven around by yuppies. And you'll have someone you can blame all your problems on, another Republican president.

So go ahead, and do what you normally do, retort without a pertinent argument, and instead sling a few insults my way because you've got no real response.


vveasey profile image

vveasey 4 years ago from Detroit,MI Author

Ed

You sound angry and hostile

You seem to be lumping, all democrats together as if their all just one big person.

You're expressing anger at me but I didn't peel the sticker off your wife's car or key her car.

I've never been to a McCain rally so I didn't scream obscenities at any of them.

I've never told anyone "if you don't vote Obama, it's because you're racist"

You say "So then why is it so racist if a white person avoids voting Obama based on similar reasoning?"

I don't think it's racist if a "white person avoids voting for Obama".

I've have said that many white people aren't going to vote for him because he's black.

You say "You're all so bitter when you don't win"

But aren't you pretty bitter yourself right now?

You seem to think that this a all democrat against republican, all liberal against conservative thing

Well read what a prominent Republican has to say

about the Republican party

(The Republican Party is full of Racists

"Col. Lawrence Wilkerson, a self-identified Republican who was Gen. Colin Powell's chief of staff during his time as secretary of state, did not take too kindly to a recent accusation -- from Mitt Romney's controversial campaign co-chair John Sununu -- that Powell only endorsed Barack Obama for president because they're both black. Sununu would later backtrack, but the damage was done.

Wilkerson, who is white, didn't mince words on MSNBC'sThe Ed Show Friday night. "To say that Colin Powell would endorse President Obama because of his skin color is like saying Mother Teresa worked for profit," he said. And although he gave Sununu a bit of a pass, blaming his statement on an "unfortunate" choice of words, Wilkerson had much harsher words for the GOP as a whole.

"Let me just be candid," he said. "My party is full of racists. And the real reason a considerable portion of my party wants President Obama out of the White House has nothing to do with the content of his character, nothing to do with his competence as commander in chief and president, and everything to do with the color of his skin. And that's despicable.")

from the Root webpage http://www.theroot.com/buzz/former-powell-chief-st

So you see it not as simple as all blacks against whites, or all Republicans against Democrats.

Anger and hostility isn't going to get us anywhere but more anger and hostility and failure to work together wouldn't you agree?


Karthar 4 years ago

Paco 2 weeks ago

Hello Paco. First I would like to go one by one about your list what you had pointed about President Barrack Obama and his record.

Take a look at the numbers, sans commentary, and make your own judgment about whether Barack Obama deserves another term in office.

1) Real median household income is down $4300 since Obama took office. -

Answer: Really! I increased my earnings by 40% during Mr. Obama's period as President and I have always had my job from the time I started working. You know why? Because I am educated, I have a college degree, I work hard, I am sincere, I am honest and I believe in God.

2) The percentage of unemployed workers who’ve been out of a job for more than a year is over 30%.

Answer: Yes, if you have no education and just have a High School Diploma and Associate Degree, definitely you cannot be on top of the ladder. You need education. Have you checked out people who have had education and who worked hard being laid off. Or have you seen people who have had education and go and look for another job and found the job or retrained themselves to support their family?

3) The country has had the longest streak of +8% unemployment since the Depression under Obama: 39 months and counting.

Answer: Because those who were laid off did not try hard to find another job, or they never had education. If they could not find a job here, they could go find a job elsewhere to bring in money for the family. The world has many opportunities. Do you know there are Americans working in other parts of the world and who make money also? You cannot expect jobs to be open up on your backyard. You need to go and find it and if you have to move you have to move.

4) In 2011 under Barack Obama, nearly one out of every seven Americans was on food stamps. That’s a 70 percent increase from 2007.

Really! Because I remember that those who got food stamps whom I have come across had a job and were also cheating the government and getting food stamps.

5) Fifty percent of new college graduates are underemployed or unemployed.

Well, as I said earlier, there are opportunities elsewhere in the world, if there is no jobs that they could find here, apply elsewhere in the world. You cannot be sitting in your house expecting a company to open up at your backyard to make your money. Go where the jobs are!

6) U.S. home ownership is at a decade long low. So is the number of Americans who say their home is worth more than they paid for it. Home prices are the lowest they’ve been since 2002.

Because, President Bush said, now all Americans can have their American Dream and they can own a house. If they own a house, they will be great! So, he made everyone get loans without proper background check and enough downpayment. So, banks lent, people bought, and many people bought the homes that they would not be able to afford. So, when they lost they jobs, they could not pay.

7) Barack Obama ended NASA’s manned space program.

I do not have enough information about this to talk about it. So, I would not comment.

8) Going into this election cycle, Barack Obama had raised more money from Wall Street than any President in history. He has also raised more money from Wall Street than all of the GOP presidential contenders combined in this election cycle.

So, is this something wrong? I thought Wall street hated Obama because they could not make money because of all his policies and rules and regulations where individuals 401k's could be saved and not lost in gambling with people's money. So, now Wall Street loves Obama? Wow this is news for me at least.

9) Under Barack Obama’s leadership, the last time Harry Reid and the Senate Democrats passed a budget was April 9, 2009.

Well unfortunately, they would not agree with him anything and he could not pass a budget.

10) Barack Obama’s budget was defeated 414-0 in the House and 99-0 in the Senate.

Again, I cannot comment since I need to know more facts before I say it.

11) When he was running for President in 2008, Barack Obama pledged not to raise taxes on families making less than 250,000 dollars per year. He broke that promise with the tanning salon tax and with Obamacare, which raises almost 500 billion dollars in new taxes, a significant portion of which would be paid by people making less than 250,000 dollars per year.

Again I have no comment for this since I have to know the facts myself before I can comment.

12) When Barack Obama took office, gas was $1.95 per gallon. Today gas is $3.72 per gallon.

This is very untrue and go look at the price of Gas from 2002 until 2008. If you say the gas prices were $1.95 you are the most dumbest person. The Gas companies Exxon Mobil, Chevron and others were all making billions in profits and they were even called in by the senate to explain why the prices were so high. I have paid more than $4.50 cents a gallon for more than a year. They brought the price down at the end of President Bush's office term. Because the oil companies made money during President Bush's time. Which world are you all in? I did not live in Timbuktu, I lived in America when the prices were above $4.00

13) In February of this year, the federal government had a 229 billion dollar deficit. That was the largest deficit in the history of the United States.

Look at the 2 wars and the money spent. Do you know the cost of the war everyday even after President Bush left office? calculate 365 x $$$ billions.

14) America lost its AAA credit rating (which it had held since 1917) on Obama’s watch despite the fact that Timothy Geithner publicly said there was “no risk” of that happening.

Not because of BO, but because of the entire world in a mess from all the Europe crisis and other things that has been going on.

15) Barack Obama added more to the debt in just 38 months than George Bush did in two full terms as President.

Get the fact straight!


Karthar 4 years ago

The worst thing is to accuse someone of not doing a good job when he only thinks good for this country and the people of this country. The first comment that I saw was such a wonderful comment from this person...

LorrieCass 2 years ago

It makes me sick when I see the Racist tshirts and posters. If this were a stereotype targeting a past presidents heritage it would not be tolorated. President Obama and his family deserve our respect! I am a white woman and voted for the best canidate.In the end he will prove himself and become one of the greatest.

You all folks need to respect him and his family. Even, I did not like President Bush for his lies into going to war, but I did not hate him like the way people hate Mr. Obama. Just because he is Black? Wow! I thought this was the greatest country in the world for all cultures, religions and race. Wonder is that just a talk?

As, Jessie Ventura said in his show with Pierce Morgan, that Republicans are not a party, it is a Mental Illness. Which is true which I see now.


Perry 4 years ago

With all due respect I am wondering how people of intelligence can not see what Obama is, and has been, doing to destroy this country. He has encouraged race divisions, he has forced through the passage of a health care program that is not what it was promised to be either in cost or scope, he has been president under one of the worst time of unemployment with no solid ideas for correcting the problem. Fuel prices have skyrocketed, food prices have skyrocketed, and the number of people on public assistance has skyrocketed. We have not left Afganistan as was promised and our position in the Middle East is getting worse as we help to replace known dictators with unknown Muslim extremists. This is only a short list of the situation under Obama.

Is it possible to find ignorant supporters of Romney? Yes, I suppose it is. However, when you are claiming to support a candidate, to the point of voting for them, then you really ought to know who their running mate is (especially since they’ve been VP for almost four years)and that Ryan is the Republican VP and is white.

One important sign of intelligence is realizing that you made a mistake and correcting your actions accordingly. I had two family members who were staunch Obama supporters last election but after seeing the failing economy, broken promises, situations in the Middle East, and realizing that our country is being taken down a very wrong path they have excercised their intelligence (both have advanced degrees) and changed their support to Romney.

As has been said, the definition of insanity is doing the same thing and expecting different results. Given where this country is going if you don’t want to see more of the same then don’t vote Obama. If you do, well, go ahead and vote but when things really tank you’ll have no one to blame but yourself.


Sol 4 years ago

U are good at explanning veveasey


vveasey profile image

vveasey 4 years ago from Detroit,MI Author

Thanks Sol


just me222 4 years ago

President Obama re-elected,Fantastic. The reason Obama is hated,the short version is that he is a black man in the White House and he is not the butler. Racism still runs very deep in this country. The South turned to Republican in 1964 over the Civil Rights Act and may be lost forever. They would love to fight that War again. NRA has their followers and profess that Obama is coming for their guns. Again people that have no clue are following a party that has no use for them or their way of life. Fear,fear of the black man. To his credit President Obama has remained above the lunacy in the United States. In spite of people like Donald Trump,need I say more?


vveasey profile image

vveasey 4 years ago from Detroit,MI Author

just me222

No you need not say more!

Just as this hub said it all

There are a lot of sad Obama haters of all stripes, shapes and sizes, including, that knucklehead Donald Trump, who were so sure they were right about him not being re-elected and ended up being so wrong about it. They should be sad for being so hateful, disrespectful, and stupid when it comes to President Obama.


Donny2014 4 years ago

@just me222

You said it! That's a no-brainier. I can't believe that in this day and age people are still so ignorant! Internet is there for a reason. And I'm yet to see credible proof of their allegations.

Well President Obama has been re-elected. Now we can now move on and get on with the nation's business. This hate and bigotry will keep us back


just me222 4 years ago

Unfortunately they will never get on with the nations business with Obama in office. People like Mitch McConnell are among the biggest haters in the country. I believe Fox News and their crew are to blame for a lot of the hatred. I can never leave out Glen Beck,he may be the biggest problem. My opinion is that the Justice Department needs to get involved and put a stop to this,starting with Donald Trump.


vveasey profile image

vveasey 4 years ago from Detroit,MI Author

just me222

I hear ya!


just me222 4 years ago

The saying, "Money talks and BS walks," has now lost some of its truth. After the election it appear that money may now be walking. Nice to see that the people are beginning to see that the money cannot buy the elections that they want across the country. How they believe that spending that kind of money is the right thing to do is beyond belief. How many homeless could have had a roof over their head, and how many hungry could have been fed with the money that was spent trying to control the country.


Tim 4 years ago

I dislike Obama because he sucks, not because he's black. You guys have won four more years of a bad economy. Hoorrrayy!


just me222 4 years ago

Well the south chimes in again... YeeeeHawwww


vveasey profile image

vveasey 4 years ago from Detroit,MI Author

Yeah Tim I know

I feel for ya

It sucks when your candidate loses

what you were probably sure he would win


Tim 4 years ago

My candidate lost, but what did you win? Four more years of a bad economy? High unemployment? Poor foreign policy? That's my problem with all of this.


vveasey profile image

vveasey 4 years ago from Detroit,MI Author

Tim

It seems like people like you want think that the sitiuation in country hasn't getten better and don't want to think it will get better even though situation has gotten better and I think will continue to get better, even with all the opposition from the Republicans in congress.

Let me jog your memory (what follows is from my hub "Obama Wins Big, Romney Goes Down In Flames")

Remember when President Obama took office, how all the news headlines were that America was about to go down like the Titanic?

Saying that President Obama hasn't done anything for the country, is like saying that, if the captain of the Titanic had saved the Titanic, that because the ship was damaged and in need of repair, that he really didn't save it, even though he kept it from sinking to the bottom of the ocean!

The stock market was tanking.

General Motors and Chrysler were about to go out of business.

We were losing hundreds of thousands of jobs a day.

Banks were failing

The country was in a panic.

Is that the situation today?

Let me answer that...no it isn't.

President Obama has done a lot for the country (there is still more that needs to be done)

He saved the country from going down like the Titanic as the doomsayers were predicting it was about to do.

If you can't see that, that desperate situation is no longer upon us. What do you need eyes for?

Mitt Romney nor anyone else could not have repaired all of that damage in four years, especially if they had certain members of congress, intentionally opposing anything they tried to do to improve the situation, to make them look bad in the eyes of the American public.

This is President Obama last term, maybe now, Mitch McConnell and the boys will stop opposing him and start helping him make things better for all of us, they way they should have been doing in the first place!


just me222 4 years ago

When people like Mitch McConnell say "if Obama fails we win," they couldn't be more wrong. If Obama or any other President fail we all lose. Many did not like G.W.Bush but I for one was not rooting for him to fail. We as a Country need to be better than that.


Jack 4 years ago

Harry Reid is at least as uncompromising as McConnell. He went so far as to attack Romney on his Mormon faith which Reid shares. Hopefully productive compromises can be wo0rked out to help the country.


Kent j 4 years ago

Why do you call freedom lovers Tea Baggers. Why do you HATE people that want freedom? Sir you are a hypocrite and a puke.


vveasey profile image

vveasey 4 years ago from Detroit,MI Author

Kent j

I'm a freedom lover, that makes you hypocrite and a puke

There's no need to be insulting to make your point


vveasey profile image

vveasey 4 years ago from Detroit,MI Author

Ray

And I think the same about you

we could go back and forth like this

all day.

I don't care what you think about me

and I'm sure you don't care what I think about you

So what's the point. It just wasting time


just me222 4 years ago

I would like to know why all of this hatred comes from a party of Good Christian Values? Does anyone have that answer?


vveasey profile image

vveasey 4 years ago from Detroit,MI Author

just me222

this is probably the same person leaving the same message under different names.

He won't answer your question because he's just about leaving negative comments because he disagrees with the hub and is probably mad because Romney lost the election.

So I will be deleting his future comments if they are negative


Donny2014 4 years ago

@just me222

"I would like to know why all of this hatred comes from a party of Good Christian Values? Does anyone have that answer?"

Either they haven't been reading their Bibles, or they just don't care.

There is a passage in the Bible that clearly says that we should love our neighbors as ourselves. Then there's another one that says there is no Jew nor Greek, bond nor free, but all are one in the eyes of God. That's so plain. If they were indeed a party of Christian values they should be the first ones to preach love and not hate.

I think the Democratic Party practices more moral and Christian values than the Republicans do


just me222 4 years ago

Thank you Donny2014 and I agree. They also have problems with their Family values that they preach. Now I always hear that Democrats aren't much different with the Family values and that may be true but they don't call themselves the Party of Family Values.


SamIam 4 years ago

I am appalled at all the negativity i have been see on the web from the Romney followers. They just will not quit. They are the biggest problem in America. The Republican party has created nothing but drama and it has turned me to never want to vote for any Republican candidate running for any office for government. They all need to break out there bibles and read the passages closely. They go against the good of man and thrive on negativity, drama, unjust values. They make me ill to say the least...just sick of it---get over it and move on!


vveasey profile image

vveasey 4 years ago from Detroit,MI Author

SamIam

I agree!

The old Reagan Republican party was a much better and more sensible party.

Now it seems like the racists, the bigots, the homophobic, those who see women as second class citizens and those with the most extreme views have taken control of the party.

I'm sure not all Republicans are this way but it does seem like the loud, angry, vocal majority are that way.


Marcus 4 years ago

I'm tired of this half-white president continually trying to portray himself as a black man. The honky cracker needs to go.


just me222 4 years ago

Can someone make the hate and anger go away? Freedom of speech is a great thing but some of these posters need to just go away. People in the USA used to care about each other,not anymore.


Donny2014 4 years ago

@just me222

Unfortunately these people will hide behind the freedom of speech thing, but they need to realize speech is not entirely free to the point where you can say anything anytime and any place that is meant to cause damage. For example, you can't yell fire in an open theater. Also fighting words are prohibited. I'm also sure that this name calling does fall under fighting words; not to mention the fact that it can be demeaning.

People in the US need to look out for each other. That's what makes; or what made America great. I'm sure the founding fathers will turn in their graves if they ever knew what America has come to. If we keep up this hate, the rest of the world will leave us behind. I mean this is really ridiculous. Seriously!


vveasey profile image

vveasey 4 years ago from Detroit,MI Author

Marcus

you're mad because President Obama, whom you call a "honky cracker" is a white man pretending to be a black man?


Austin 4 years ago

Here is the thing that is killing America we only care about one thing in general. For the The Extreme Left wing its only about weather they can have there abortions, to the Environmentalist its about killing coal or global warming, The Anti-Gun well....To take AWAY someones rights that is a big cause of the hate, Your Anti-religion nuts to take God out of everything, Then you have your extreme Right Christians want God in everything, Your pro Gun guys who just want to keep there Guns and the second Amendment rights, Your anti abortion Christians or not. You have the guy who works in the mines or the timber company or the Gas company who just wants to provide for his family and there aren't any other jobs out there where if you don't have a/an expensive college education that you can get that will pay you well provide you and your family with insurance at no cost to you. People of this site I am not going to say there isn't racist acts all over this country, but I will say it is very harsh to call everyone who didn't vote for Obama a racist. Some people just want to keep there jobs and there rights. Now the ones who voted for him they want there rights as well and that is fine you have the right to do what you wish it is your life but we should not try and dictate to others what they should be allowed to do and not do. We all have the right to be free and to do what we love . That is what causes the hate more then anything else you say no you can't have an abortion then you caused someone or some group to hate you. The same way as saying no you can't own a gun it's our right as Americans to do as we see fit and what we want. Now I hear the argument that abortions aren't dangerous like guns but if you look at FACTS there are more legal guns and gun owners then gun crimes. There is an old saying "Mind your business and I'll mind mine. The hate is started by a group that only wants to promote what they believe or what they want. This country is divided because there are so many people who aren't willing to put there petty wants aside long enough to unite and fix this country. I did not vote for Obama so call me a racist it's fine it's my right to vote for who I want. But if he turns out to be a great president doesn't take my second amendment rights and turns this country around for the better then I eat my words I will say man He did a great job. I did not vote for Obama for the reason of many factors one 4 years things got worse 4 years still no budget for our government 4 years jobs are being lost faster then they did in the great depression. He told no hint or clue to what he planned to do to fix our economy all I wanted was to hear a plan he said nothing. In my eyes he seems lost like he doesn't know how to fix this economy. Now people will still say you are racist but I gave the reasons why didn't vote for him and they are valid. If this was George Bush the nation would have eat him up and spit him out. But it's Obama and he rather then a leader seems more like a actor on a TV show, In front of the cameras he presents a a silver tongue but once his words need to become actions they never seem to be delivered. For example look at New York still no power still no help. That sounds a lot like New Orleans but the media and you very same people on this site HATED George Bush for not helping Obama is doing the same thing. HE is no better then Bush or any other president the difference is that people are drawn to the man not his policies. His policies are horrible for one of the biggest facts they don't work. Romney was a up tight rich guy but he was a business man and business men know and understand how to fix situations like this. Would he have maybe been terrible yes he might have but Obama was to his first term I don't care about the little things that people held over this election....let me take that back I do but the most important thing right now is fix this countries economy and our debt lets argue and complain about gun rights abortion rights Christian rights environmental rights lets argue about those once the country is stable under our feet again. We need to come together and fix this problem I am not happy Obama won I think it to be a mistake but let him prove me wrong put the other crap to the side and fix our economy. Then once we are stable again then we can talk about the other none threatening issues such as the rights I posted earlier. The Republicans should not make this about race, nor should the Democrats make this about race. Its not about Race its about the well fair of our country weather we can pay our debt or get owned by the Chinese. Obama should not make moves that eliminate jobs when job lose is our big problem right now. People I am not a Democrat as you can tell but I am an American just like you and I want my rights just the same as you and I want my family to feel safe and be provided for just the same as you all I am saying is do not back somebody because of there race nor not back them because of there race back them by the character of there actions. And for me the character of his actions doesn't say a respectable man.


just me222 4 years ago

Can anyone answer,what party or category do the illiterates fall under? Are you kidding me Austin? Do you not have spell check or grammar check on your computer? I am sure there is no rant check so not much you can do for that. WOW!


Mitt 4 years ago

Faced with facts you resort back to insults. You miss the message just like you miss the factors that make Obama a bad President, maybe not a bad man but a bad President. Just me222 I wouldn't worry about how someone types on a computer rather worry about what your blind following of Obama will do to this country. Just ask the Americans stationed in Benghazi.....oh that's right Obama let them DIE. WOW!!! Is right how you could be so idiotic to vote for this man twice.


vveasey profile image

vveasey 4 years ago from Detroit,MI Author

Mitt

I feel your pain

It seems like people like you want think that the situation in this country hasn't gotten better and don't want to think it will get better even though situation has gotten better and I think will continue to get better, even with all the opposition from the Republicans in congress.

Let me jog your memory a little bit

Remember when President Obama took office, how all the news headlines were that America was about to go down like the Titanic?

Saying that President Obama hasn't done anything for the country, is like saying that, if the captain of the Titanic had saved the Titanic, that because the ship was damaged and in need of repair, that he really didn't save it, even though he kept it from sinking to the bottom of the ocean!

The stock market was tanking.

General Motors and Chrysler were about to go out of business.

We were losing hundreds of thousands of jobs a day.

Banks were failing

The country was in a panic.

Is that the situation today?

Let me answer that...no it isn't.

President Obama has done a lot for the country (there is still more that needs to be done)

He saved the country from going down like the Titanic as the doomsayers were predicting it was about to do.

If you can't see that, that desperate situation is no longer upon us. What do you need eyes for?

Mitt Romney nor anyone else could not have repaired all of that damage in four years, especially if they had certain members of congress, intentionally opposing anything they tried to do to improve the situation, to make them look bad in the eyes of the American public.

Mitch McConnell said their number one goal was to make Obama a one term president, not to help improve the economy, but to vote no on his job bill or anything else he wanted to do to help improve the economy.

This is President Obama last term, maybe now, Mitch McConnell and the boys will stop opposing him and start helping him keep improving our situation and make things better for all of us, they way they should have been doing in the first place!


Donny2014 4 years ago

@vvveasey

It's really unfortunate that people are ready to bash the President with purely absurd allegations with no facts to back them up.

Someone even called those who voted for Obama twice idiots. The same can be said about those who cast their votes for Romney; someone who clearly looked at us all in the face and lied.

Then the issue about Mitt's taxes. He refused to show his tax returns. What's so hard about doing that? People say it's none of our business. It is too our business. We want to make sure we have an honest president and not one who lies and cheats.

We all need to wake up here and get past politics and hatred. This goes for both sides. Let's hope that the Republicans will co-operate with the President as he tries to avert the prospect of us going over a fiscal cliff


vveasey profile image

vveasey 4 years ago from Detroit,MI Author

Donny2014

I agree

Many of those who make negative comments about President Obama forget or don't want to remember just how bad things really were when he took office.

So they say he hasn't done anything for the country because things aren't perfect or as good as they can or will be.

But things are damn sure a lot better than when he took office, but they don't seem to agree, why is that?

Maybe they would rather he do to the country, what Romney said to do about the failing auto companies at that time, "Let them go bankrupt"

Can you imagine the rage and anger they would be expressing at President Obama if he has said that or allowed that to happen?

If saving the country from going down the tubes is considered doing nothing, then anything anyone does for the country is doing nothing.

If he hasn't done anything to make the situation in the country better, no one , including me, would have voted him back into office.


Sancho 4 years ago

You can blame whoever you like. Will people still be blaming Bush in 4 years? Obama's 50+ billion dollar 2009 stimulus plan didn't work. That was borrowed money....squandered on corporate fat cats and bizarrre green industries. Has anyone heard of a new plan that's going to get all these chronically under-employed people back into the middle classe? Or is the middle class going to be comprised of over-paid government workers and government contractors? Everyone else either wage slaves or parasites. If you're not making $20 an hour you're probably better off becoming an unearned entitlement expert.....like all the new illegal aliens are. Free housing, food stamps, medical care and reward points for having more children. How can you beat that? Under Obama, they'll cut military retirements before they'd touch unearned entitlements. Welfare is economic security.


vveasey profile image

vveasey 4 years ago from Detroit,MI Author

Sancho

There was and infrastructure jobs bill that would repair our dilapidated, crumbling bridges, roads and highways and probably would have had a major stimulating on effect the economy,

but Republicans voted it down, because their number one stated goal was to make President Obama a one term president and they were willing to let the economy tank in order make that happen.

The President has limited power. The country is ran by the congress and the President.

Why do people like you never criticize or hold the the congress accountable for their part in this mess?


Donny2014 4 years ago

vveasey

What will it take for people to realize that the US constitution gives the President limited powers? President Obama tried to put forward policies that would have helped boost the economy and put people back to work but the GOP blocked it. Perfect example was the American Jobs Act.

Here's a copy of an article about it

http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2012/09/07/812251...

Her's another article listing all the American Jobs Act was to do.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2011/09...

I agree with you vveasey. Instead of blasting the President saying he could have fixed a mess that his predecessor George Bush left over a period of eight years in just four years, they should have been slamming Congress for just sitting on its hands. It was George Bush who caused the nation to be in such debt. Two wars; hello?! Where do you think all that money came from to maintain all those fighter jets and military vehicles; plus feed all those soldiers? The cost of a fighter jet is at least 35 million. Just one mind you.

But I guess it's no use. people are just so filled with hate that they can't reason. Just sick. Really sick.


Ben 4 years ago

I'm so tired of hearing Obama "inherited" a mess? Firefighters "inherit" messes too, but you don't see them throwing gasoline on it!


Sancho 4 years ago

Enough of this myth spread by the liberal media. Don't blame GW - the collapse came when Fannie Mae, and Freddie Mac fessed up that their loans were bogus. It was timed as an October surprise dirty trick on incumbent Republicans. It was done by Democrats, Barney Frank and Christopher Dodd, who supposedly oversaw both agencies. GW simply continued a well intended policy, started with Carter and amplified by Clinton to give marginal borrowers a shot at a home.

EVERY President perpetuated the policy, because it could incite prosperity, especially at election time.

NET: they are all guilty. The Democrats perhaps more so - because they knowingly trashed the home market to get elected. And now Frank and Dodd enjoy a comfy retirement along with Franklin Raines, their minion, who took home $93 million per year to run the home loan market into the sewer.

Also, Democrats controlled the Senate in the Bush Era and still do today..along with a Failed Democratic President!


vveasey profile image

vveasey 4 years ago from Detroit,MI Author

Ben

I get your point, but fire fighters aren't really a good analogy for the president.

Going to fight fires is what they do, they don't have to take a vote of all the fire fighters to see if a majority of them vote that its ok to go fight a fire before they fight it.

They don't have to pass bills or make make deals with other firefighters in order to do their job.

Fire fighers are not setup like our system of limited powers that keeps one branch government from controlling all of the power.

This is not an excuse, just the reality of the situation

As for the democrats controlling the senate they had the so called blue dog democrats who many times voted with the Republicans effectively giving control of the vote to the Republicans


vveasey profile image

vveasey 4 years ago from Detroit,MI Author

Sancho

Why you guys so angry?

You say "NET: they are all guilty."

Why is that all we hear about is how guilty President Obama is?

As for the democrats controlling the senate. they had the so called blue dog democrats who many times voted with the Republicans effectively giving control of the vote to the Republicans


SamIam 4 years ago

Still confused on how the Romney followers carry so much hatred and anger towards President Obama calling him a liar and everything under the sun and paint Romney as a GOD of some sort. The man lied about the car industry....the CEO of Chrysler had to come on national T.V. and call out Romney's lies. Romney didn't even win the state he governs, obviously those people felt he did a poor job as governor so why is he painted as a savior for these ridiculous followers? Unbelievable!


vveasey profile image

vveasey 4 years ago from Detroit,MI Author

SamIam

I hear ya.

certainly not all of them but many of them don't seem to be so much for Romney as against President Obama, many in his party didn't necessarily like him or think he was the best candidate for President.

But they hated President Obama more than they liked Romney.

Many but not all, fervently believe that only a WASP (white Anglo Saxon Protestant) should be president

and definitely not a black man

Many of them are offended that a black man is president.

Some don't want to admit it,

Some don't know that that's part or all of the reason they don't like him.

Some know it and aren't ashamed show it.

Some disagree with his policies.

But the super hostile, angry, hateful types who can't see or say anything good about President Obama probably aren't in the I disagree with his policies group but in the previous groups above.


Donny2014 4 years ago

@vveasey and Samlam

It doesn't make sense arguing with those guys. They've allowed hate and propaganda to control their minds that they don't see facts despite them being solidly in their faces.

They all know why they carry so much hatred for President Obama. Of course won't always agree with what the President does, but like vveasey said, some of these people don't see one ounce of good that he's done for the country. Every thing he does is bad.


vveasey profile image

vveasey 4 years ago from Detroit,MI Author

Donny2014

I agree

I'm really not arguing with them just trying to see if some of them, who may be reading these comments and not commenting themselves, may be open to reason

So sometimes I'll respond and sometimes I won't


Antoniette 4 years ago

Some people here talk like fools, white this black that... talking like fools because at the end of the day, if we don't do things for it's the right thing to do, we're the ONLY one's to be screw up, the people...

I don't support obama and never will nor be, because he's a fraud, corrupt, thug, because he's bringing the people against one another, by separation of faith, gender, color, position, status... what is wrong with people? I can care less if he's white, red or orange, it's NOT the color of his skin what does the job or don't, but the content of his heart, and the content of his heart is NOT in the best interest of these Republic of USA.

My grand children are "mulato" black and white, I would said, like obama, but what most seems to miss is that obama has more of Arab than black or white combine. He sides with muslims over Americans, persecute Americans citizens over illegals... close our energy production, if people has not paid attention they better wake up, it's not just any kind of dictatorship what he want to bring, it's islam... and that is going to be the very destruction of this Nation, islam is of darkness, cruel, barbaric and for the destruction of Nations... has been for the last 1400 years.

I know by the comments that black people are making comments here and even democrats or liberals... well it's NOT anymore about party of the color of your skin or how bias you're, because you care more about your pity...how about your children? this we face today is the very survival of FREEDOM as we know it, our faith as Judeo Christian heritage, it's the very destruction of the USA... and YES, he knows what he's doing... destroy the USA is his job, not to be president, the position is the tool, no more no less. WAKE UP PEOPLE.. I been in dictatorship, I know what I'm talking about.


Moozmom 4 years ago

You saw the video of the Cleveland black lady telling the interviewer how to qualify for an Obama phone; well that was testimony from a black liberal plantation member and it was a testimony also to the abuse she suffered at liberal hands, whether she acknowledges the abuse or not. The fact that a phone buys a presidency is indicative of the hold the liberals have on the folks on the liberal plantation. Unwilling to think, read, discuss, or display curiousity about other than Obama, they merely repeat the mantras. I have witnessed this myself and am always without words when I do. It is difficult to tell another person they are acting like idiots.


vveasey profile image

vveasey 4 years ago from Detroit,MI Author

Antoniette

using a term like mulatto to describe President Obama is a word from the slavery and Jim Crow days.

No one uses that term but someone whose mind is stuck in the past.

Saying President Obama is more of an Arab is a even more ridiculous view, than calling him a mulatto.

How do you convince yourself that that's even true?

African American/Black Americans don't refer to those who are biracial as mulattoes nor does anyone else who's not thinking using antiquated ideas

You say" I been in dictatorship, I know what I'm talking about."

I don't know if that's true or not but maybe that's why you seem so paranoid that you can't see that

no American President can be a dictator because of the separation of powers act.

Dictators rule by force and rule supreme.

Americans Presidents are elected they don't rule by force.

If President Obama was a dictator he wouldn't have to be elected, and could tell congress what to do and they would have to do it

But as you should know that's not the case


Donny2014 4 years ago

vveasey

Is it possible if you could ask Moozmon to come up with concrete facts to back up that statement? As far as I'm concerned, most of it is just absurd. I'm yet to see one evidence of any scandal he's been involved in. I've heard of other scams that others have been involved in and none is bashing them!

Sides with Muslims. In all my 20 plus years I've never heard anything so baseless in my life! Typical right-wing propaganda if ya ask me!


vveasey profile image

vveasey 4 years ago from Detroit,MI Author

Donny2014

I think you just asked Moozmon for the facts

it seems like most of these people's "facts" are their beliefs and like any true believer their beliefs mean more to them than real facts.

They are very emotional and seemingly paranoid, and obsessed (or maybe it's possessed) about what they believe about president Obama, that's why no amount of facts, even if they were piled up to the sky, will be hard pressed to enter their minds


Benjamin Franklin 4 years ago

“When the people realize they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic.” – Benjamin Franklin


vveasey profile image

vveasey 4 years ago from Detroit,MI Author

Benjamin Franklin

can you vote yourself money?


Alexander Tytler 4 years ago

“A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a permanent form of government. A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover that they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse due to loose fiscal policy, which is always followed by a dictatorship.”

-Alexander Tytler "The Fall of the Athenian Republic" 1787


just me222 4 years ago

How about what Abraham Lincoln said, I have two enemies,the Rebel Army in front of me and the Banks behind me, I fear the banks more than the Rebel Army.


vveasey profile image

vveasey 4 years ago from Detroit,MI Author

Alexander Tytler, Benjamin Franklin

You guys need to start thinking for yourself and stop letting these dead people you quote think for you or quoting them because you think this adds weight or validity to what you say...but it doesn't


Jill 4 years ago

Who doesn’t want the highest possible number of people to vote? I don’t.

My vote should not have to compete with that of a moron who can’t blurt out “life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness” when asked to name the rights mentioned in the Declaration of Independence. (A “moron” is someone with a mental age between 8 and 12, for those of you who vote Democrat.)

If you don’t know that the Constitution is the supreme law of the land, you should not be allowed to vote–photo ID or not. Nor should your political opinions carry weight among the 15 percent in this country who actually know something.


just me222 4 years ago

Wow Jill, and you consider yourself one of that 15% and the rest of us are morons? I am here to tell you that you are so misguided that is is nearly pitiful. You cannot take away someones right to vote in this Free Country because of what you believe. Remember Women's Suffrage? People actually believed that women weren't smart enough to vote. Seriously more people than you believe know plenty about the laws of the land and lots of us actually fought for those rights,some even died for those rights. Democrats may differ from your opinions and your beliefs but in America that used to be a good thing,somehow hatred took over and that is a sad day for America. The day after Veterans day and you have the audacity to speak of 15 percent in the country that actually know something? Jill I had the honor to serve with way more than your 15 percent and God only knows how many over the years have died for your right to free speech. Also for the man that believed no one was listening when he spoke of the 47% of Americans that live off of the Government.


vveasey profile image

vveasey 4 years ago from Detroit,MI Author

Why are so many people like, Jill if that's even the person's real name,

So angry, hostile, belligerent, hateful and arrogant?


just me222 4 years ago

The reason is that the opposite of what Jill said is actually the truth. They are uneducated!


Jill 4 years ago

What makes you think I haven't served troop? I'm guessing you're Army, possibly Navy. What was your MOS? I was about to ask how long you served, but I doubt it was more than one enlistment. You definitely sound like a 1 termer trying to somehow use his military experience in his argument. Pretty sad the day after Veterans Day.


just me222 4 years ago

That is the only part of my response that you chose to address? My military service or the length of service is none of your affair. You chose not to respond to any of the questions that I posed nor any of my comments and that tells me volumes about you. I will no longer engage you as you are irrelevant as are your comments. You are only attempting to illicit anger from others,I have to anger or malice toward people of other Political beliefs. Good luck to you.


Jill 4 years ago

@just

That was the first thing I addressed because you questioned my patriotism and attempted to use your military service to support your rationale. You have chosen to no longer engage me because I have served and don't appreciate your BS.


just me222 4 years ago

You know I was not going to engage you but I will address one thing and one thing only. Very typical that you would say that i questioned your patriotism,that is not true and never was,I would never question an Americans patriotism and never questioned yours. I made a point to question your math that only 15 percent of the country know anything. I did use the fact that I served with many people that knew plenty and that I am offended that you use such a number without any basis in fact. Again,very typical.


SCOTT YOUNG 4 years ago

EVERYBODY POINTING THE FINGER AT OBAMA SHOULD LOOK IN THE MIRROR INSTEAD LOVE IS STRONGER THEN HATE


rikkeegan@aol.com 4 years ago

Its really quite simple why so many people hate Obama. He's black and they have known or unknown rascism running through their veins. If Obama was white would there be this many death threats and such blatant disrespect for the oval office. NO!

Rascism & bigotry are still very much alive and active here in the good ole USA. Disgusting, Vile,Hateful but true. Look at Rush, Glenn, Trump and numerous Republicans with enough hate speech to start a world war. Yet what are these folks doing to solve our economy, create prosperity and unite us. No they are accomplishing the exact opposite and getting rich off their hate. Getting very rich!


Seth 4 years ago

@rikkegan

The blackest thing about Barack Obama is Michelle. Have you looked at both of his parents and who raised him?


vveasey profile image

vveasey 4 years ago from Detroit,MI Author

Seth

allow me to "lighten" things up about this "black" thing (pun intended)

The "one drop rule" was created during the African slave trade to determine who was black so they could be enslaved or who was white because it was against the law to enslave a white person.

So any mixed race person with a black african parent or ancestor was called black even if he or she looked "white".

The half whte half black people were called Mulattoes.

One fouth black were called quadroons.

one eightth black were called octoroons.

If it could be proven that a person had even "one drop" of black blood...a black african ancetor..they were considered black no matter how white they looked. This was all for the economic gain of the slave traders and slaveowners.

That's why president Obama and other famous and not so famous mixed heritage people are called black or call themselves black.

It's not a skin color thing.

It's a cultural thing.

Do you get it now?


psyguy 4 years ago

Where do you ignorant rednecks get off calling intelligent people who disagree with you ideologically "teabaggers"? Do you not know that this is a very derogatory term used by those that are referring to homosexuals performing a specific act. You are calling concervatives racists, yet you describe tea party members, in fact all concervatives ( all republicans) in a very perverse light. Maybe we should call all liberals child abusers. They aren't. But aparently, no evidence is needed.

By the way, I don't hate Blacks, I just totally disagree with Obama's politics. He is the idiot.


vveasey profile image

vveasey 4 years ago from Detroit,MI Author

psyguy

well my friend you seem to be more up on the homosexual culture and terms than I am.

Teabaggers to me, is just slang for the tea party, because tea and teabags go together, nothing more. So your accusations are baseless


imaniggatoo 4 years ago

I think what we have here is a lot of neurotic people with race and color hang ups imposing their unsubstantiated self-righteous views of why american people hate obama.( there are a myriad of possible reasons, alot of controversial issues & to name just a few...hides his past,his homosexuality,he's an abortionist that claims to be christen,he an anti-semite,marxist income redistributionist,dictatorial take over of the healthcare,he's a BIG hypocrite and liar, etc... a very unlikable person to say the least. )Color and race shouldn't be an issue but lets be real,things are reverse now cuz we black folk are more racist now then the white folk is. Anytime there is a disagreement over anything and the other person is a different race 9 out of 10 times we are the ones to scream racism as the reason.That is sooo... off the mark. we belittle ourselves when we do that.Thanks to obama we have a weaker,more vulnerable,more divided country and a whole hell of lot poorer. Take your blinders off-because we too will suffer at the hands of this 50% caucasian 43% bedouin arab and 7% negro.(for those of you that color and race is important). Do your research people. The obama taxes are going to hit hard Jan. 1, much much more unemployment and business failures - you think the economy is bad now..... I bet you can't wait! Get ready!!


vveasey profile image

vveasey 4 years ago from Detroit,MI Author

imaniggatoo

obviously many Americans don't agree with you because President Obama was reelected.

I know you and others are hurt, angry and diappointed because he was reelected but just posting your angry comments is not going to change anything. He got reelected.

You say "Take your blinders off-because we too will suffer at the hands of this 50% caucasian 43% bedouin arab and 7% negro.(for those of you that color and race is important)"

This statement and you going into all of this detail about what you think President Obama's racial percentages are, makes it seem that Race is pretty important to you too.

I don't do that and I don't know anyone else who does that, execept people like you .

Because the fact of the matter is, because of the "one drop rule"

Any person with an African (black) ancestor or parent, is considered to be black.

A large percentage of "black" people have mixed "racial' heritage but are still consider to be black.

That includes President Obama.

If you think that it's "black" people who are the racists and are making President Obama's race, an issue when it isn't an issue, watch this video then tell me what you think. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S38VioxnBaI


psyguy 4 years ago

vveasey: You're probably right in many cases and absolutely wrong in many others. Most of us who disagree with Obama do not do so because of his race but because of his ideology. I don't dislike your comments because of your race. I don't know your race. Obviously I disagree with your political views. I would strongly disagree with Kerrey had he been elected President or Gore before him (definitely). My wife is a retired social worker and I am a retired psychologist/professor/university president - generally professions considered to be liberal. My Republican wife is still a union member and my Republican father was a union rep. My wife's Democrat dad (96 year's old), who we care for retired at age 65, as a big shot from the Graphic Arts Guild and has never voted Republican. I love him. His 92 year old Republican wife who we also take care of has been married to him for over 70 years and has always voted Republican - we love her as well. They are both White.

It's not a racial thing people -- it's an ideological thing. We are allowed to disagree along those lines. I really don't like Obama's politics. But...we are both from Illinois and that's kind of cool. We both lived in Chicago for a time, so that's okay. He and my wife both worked for Welfare...okay, sort of.

Still, I firmly believe he should be a mediocre community organizer, not a really terribly president of the USA.


psyguy 4 years ago

1. Tea Bagger 316 up, 78 down

-noun

1) A male engages in the sexual act of tea bagging. in which he stands over his partner and lowers his testicles into his partner's mouth, as if lowering a tea bag into a tea cup.


vveasey profile image

vveasey 4 years ago from Detroit,MI Author

psyguy

As I said, I didn't know that meaning of teabagger and it has nothing to do with the way I use it.

You say "vveasey: You're probably right in many cases and absolutely wrong in many others. "

I agree with that statement about you as well.

It may not be a racial thing with you but it's definitely is a racial thing with many others.

So if the racist shoe doesn't fit your foot don't wear it and dont' take what write personally. because it's not directed at you.

But if you think that just because you and others may not have a issue with President Obama race, that it not an issue, then I have to respectfully say, that although well intentioned, you're a little naive

Look at this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S38VioxnBaI


psyguy 4 years ago

No, I'm not naive. I watch all the national news and read all the the national press. You and others like you have an issue with Obama's race and you shove it in the faces of us conservatives every chance you get. You think that because we (me and people like me) disagree with your idealogical/political view, you can simply dismiss us by calling us racist or homophobic? I don't like the fact thet you and others believe in redistributing my wealth (I really don't have that much, but I'd like to keep what I have). You cannot simply choose to denigrate me to racist status so easily simply because you can't win a simple idealogical argument. Do you have any, any, any reason to move us into the racist or teabagger category simply because we disagree with you? NO. You are the racist, the sexist, and the homophobe. Prove me wrong.


vveasey profile image

vveasey 4 years ago from Detroit,MI Author

psyguy

I don't have to prove anything to you

You already have your mind made up

You can believe whatever you want to believe

I'm not trying to convince you of anything

You can agree with my hub or disagree

that's up to you

You say I have an issue with Obama's race, I guess you didn't watch that video or just don't care about what you saw.

I don't think it makes any sense for us to carry this conversation any further

thanks for commenting


psyguy 4 years ago

There ya go. Listen to your own argument...watch the video yourself...consider "White Guilt" as your own burden. You're right. It makes absolutely no sense for us to carry on this discussion. I hope your other readers will have the chance to read our conversation and understand our discourse. You have no argument. You simply WANT to be right because you're liberal -- get it? It's quite typical.

Your problem is that you never expected to have an intelligent conservative respond to your blog. You thought only lame liberal thinkers of the same ilk as you would find your post. OOPS.


vveasey profile image

vveasey 4 years ago from Detroit,MI Author

That's laughable

Yeah, you're so intelligent

You didn't even watch the video.

The video is not about white guilt watch it

click this link

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S38VioxnBaI

So you're so off track and don't even know it

You seem to have a need to argue

It's not that I don't have an argument

it's that I'm not trying to convince you of anything therefore I have no need to argue with you.

I'm just painting a picture for people to at if you don't like don't look at.

My hub is my "argument" take it or leave it.


psyguy 4 years ago

Waaaaiiiiiit a minute here. What a Liberal response "I made my argument -- Take it or leave it." Totally Obamaesque. I responded to your last ridiculous comments and it didn't get printed. I watched the video. There were no (absolutely no) indications that any of the GIFS (individual photos represented within the photos shown) were representative of the thousands of photos taken at Tea Party events. Can you prove that these few were indicative of the many thousands that were present at the many rallies? Of course not. And so what? Even if the ten or twelve pics you have displayed came from tea party events (that's possible) let's look at the communist, anarchist, and other anti American messages that show up at Liberal/Democrat events.Further, you have made no effort to address the truth of any of your previous statements. Okay, it's your blog. Print whatever the hell you want. But, wouldn't you like to have some truth behind it? Get some facts. Your title uses the term, "Teabaggers". You don't even know what that means. You want to be a writer but you don't care enough to look up the terms? Get your stuff together.


hakward 4 years ago

Good job, Psyguy. Teabagging is definitely not the same as Tea Partying, although teabagging could be considered partying by some demographic groups.

About Obama, here is what I think and let me say first off that race has very little to do with my thoughts. Obama is the president, once again, primarily because he is posing as a black man. He is not a black man. He is however, a Muslim socialist, who appears to be concentrated on destroying the USA that we and our fathers before us have built and defended for over 200 years. By calling himself a black man, he garnered the black vote. He then befriended all of the people on the public payroll by promising more "free stuff" to come, and got their votes. That in itself is a conflict of interest if you ask me. I don't believe that anyone receiving welfare, public aid, food stamps, or any of the entitlement money from the government should have their vote counted. Of course they will vote for the individual who will continue to give them the "free stuff!" Then follows the liberal academics, the liberal show business groups, the youth who think they will get off easy on their school loans, the aliens, legal and otherwise, the Hispanic population, all alternative lifestyle folks, the Muslims, the socialists, the communists, the big union dinosaurs, and all other American outsiders in the country looking for a place to belong.

Okay - that said, he is our president again. I am glad I am old enough to have lived some of life in the soon to be permanently changed USA, and to have enjoyed working with my own hands and being allowed to enjoy what I have earned. I am sad for the idiots who have voted for Obama and his minions, for the young people who don't have a clue but think they are so superior, and for the poor who think Obama will be giving them something they need. I can only hope and pray that the next 4 years will pass quickly and that we as a nation will come out of this phase without any lasting damage. I can honestly say I can't believe this will happen, tho. I fear we are in for the fight of our lives, and that the next 10-15 years will be extremely tough on all Americans, possibly the whole planet. We are screwed.

Thanks for letting me vent.


Donny2014 4 years ago

hakward

With all due respect, you're really extremely ignorant. It's sad with your age. I thought you'd know better than that.

Where is your evidence to back up your claim? You're really pathetic. Your article wreaks of snobbery, and flat out racism. If it's not racism, I don't know what is.

Talk about hope and pray. Which God? Certainly not the God who said we're all brothers.


Donny2014 4 years ago

@vveasey

That video is utterly disgusting! And they have the nerve to say America is Christian nation. True, Christian principles may have built it, but saying we are a Christian nation discriminates against those who are not Christians. The Constitution says you shouldn't.

How many of these Obama and other black haters even read the Constitution?


just me222 4 years ago

They don't,they let Sean Hannity,Glen Beck, and Bill O'Reilly interpret it for them. They are the people that allow others to determine what they think.


Donny2014 4 years ago

@just_me222

What is it? Are they just too lazy to read for themselves or are they just close-minded? No wonder America will get nowhere!


just me222 4 years ago

My opinion is that it is a little of both and that is a recipe for disaster for the country. They can only connect to the wealthiest of America and have little use for the rest of us.


Donny2014 4 years ago

@just_me222

If that's the case , the GOP's doomed. They're actually throwing away the baby with the bath-water. The very groups that they'd need to help them win; as was the case when groups like the Latinos and others voted for Obama over Romney. Unless one gets a great percentage of the Latino group, he won't win the White House.

The GOP's gonna have to do better than that; trust me


just me222 4 years ago

If they believe spewing their hatred through these talking heads and Rush Limbaugh as well will get people to either join the party or come back to the party,they are WRONG! People are waking up all over this country and hopefully will continue to do so. We do not want to be talked at or down to,tell us what you mean and mean what you tell us. If we see you behind closed doors telling your rich donors what they want to hear,you will never get our respect or our vote. If you think saying what you think people of color want to hear will win them over,you are sadly mistaken. Either change the way you think or just go away. You have alienated people of color,young people and women,then you wonder why you cannot get elected. You have also no idea the plight of the middle class and the poor.


vveasey profile image

vveasey 4 years ago from Detroit,MI Author

Right on brothers!


hakward 4 years ago

With Obama in the driver's seat, the middle class is rapidly becoming the poor. And if the current administration chases off all of the job creators and small businesses with fiscal policy and mandatory Obamacare fees, who will there be left to take money from to give to the new poor class?? You Obamaniacs enjoy the hell you have helped create.


just me222 4 years ago

Oh,I forgot,they have also created the hate that is within people like hakward. I hate no one! I did not vote for G.W. Bush but I supported him because that is how I was raised. Unlike Republicans,I do not believe that if our President fails we win..WE ALL LOSE. We are a Country that used to believe that "United we stand,divided we fall." Somehow some people in this country forgot that. By the way that came from a Republican,the same Republican that fought for the 13 th Amendment,abolishing Slavery. People forget History very easily. You become doomed to repeat it.


Donny2014 4 years ago

@hakward

You're a troll.

@just_me222

You're right on the money with that! Unfortunately Rush Limbaugh didn't realize that when he said "I want Obama to fail." And I'm glad you reminded us that, "United we stand, divided we fall." And what do think the United Sates means? Take a wild guess


just me222 4 years ago

Just a reminder,Mitch McConnell in the Senate is the one that said "If Obama fails we win'" Shame on these people. I love this Country but don't like seeing what it is becoming.


Donny2014 4 years ago

just_me222

What's with Mitch McConnell? Why would anyone say something like that?

I don't know. Never has any president come under so much fire the way President Obama has. The GOP doesn't seem to want to work with him. They're proposing stuff that they know the President won't sign. Proposals that will screw over the Middle class. If those at the top get tax-breaks; who's gonna be left with the tax burden? Isn't that simple mathematics? Are we that blind that we can't reason?


Psyguy 4 years ago

Libs...anybody who disagrees with you must be a troll. Resorting to name calling so quickly is much easier than making an intelligent argument. And by the way - before you say that no other president has ever come under the kind of fire that Obama has, consider G.W. Bush.


Donny2014 4 years ago

@Psyguy

I'm not going to even waste my time to argue with you. I guess your argument is intelligent? I must commend you for that!


Mark 4 years ago

If Obama fails, everyone wins. His policies aren't working. His new push to obtain the power to personally raise the debt limit is something only a dictator would seek. Our representatives in congress should retain that authority.


Adam 3 years ago

donny 2014, just keep resorting to name calling. That's all you seem to be doing without making any points whatsoever. Mr. Obama was not raised like other blacks in America. He did not go to church every Sunday. He did not eat fried chicken at big mama's house. And I'm not being racist, I fucking love fried chicken too, but the point I'm making is, most blacks live in the south or the city. Mr. Obama spent the majority of his time overseas and with his commie grandparents in Hawaii. The blacks that voted for him vote for him only because he's black, which is much more racist than calling him what he is, a puppet. He does not represent their interests, but uses his color to cohere the black community. Mr. Obama, the democratic party, African Americans are the most racist people in this country. Hating white people is the new norm. Libertarians, of all colors, look past the groups society puts us in, and looks at each individual, for who they are and how we are treated.


Pilar 3 years ago

Because he is BLACK!!!!!!!!!!!! the truth is old white little men, can't stand the a black man with great education and class is love by so many and elected, and they will have to live with that fact.


nocommies 3 years ago

It's simple dumbass. I don't care about his color. He's a communist and most of appointees are commies.


hakman 3 years ago

@Pilar

Learn some grammar, first, and then show me the great education part of your post! No one has seen anything about his "great education!"

@nocommies

Agree that color is not the issue here. Socialism, communism, and radical Muslim followers should not be presidents of these United States!!!

The people who voted for Obama are the people who are getting free stuff from the US Govt. or those who hope to get free stuff in the future. People who earn or have earned their own living, who don't need a "helping hand" from the US Govt., don't want anything to do with the controlling libs and where we are currently headed.


Donny2014 3 years ago

@Adam

Once again you close-minded people have no facts. You guys really sound like stuck records now.

All this nonsense about communism. Fact?

And you need to go wash your mouth out with disinfectant. You have a potty mouth! Don't you EVER use those words when speaking to me. I'm name-calling. At least I'm not the one using foul language!


Donny2014 3 years ago

Let's take a step back from politics at the moment to remember and pray for the families of those victims in the recent tragedy in Connecticut.

Also I'm sorry if I offended anyone. @Adam, my sincerest apology, but in the future please watch your language.


Canof Sand 3 years ago

Psyguy is 100% correct. Only issue with his comment is he didn't mention the race card and he understated the now-over-12-year-old mental health issue that is Bush Derangement Syndrome. The leftist hack spewing insults at him and refusing to deal with his points only adds to the absurdly tall pile of proof for his case.


Anonymous 3 years ago

I would just like to point out that Obama is the reason why the reason of the whole world is pissed at America. Obama is the one that ordered drones to kill HUNDREDS of INNOCENT women and children in Afghanistan. Not to mention is trying to take away our second amendment right to bare arms. Anyone who tries to mess with the Bill of Rights should not be in office.


vveasey profile image

vveasey 3 years ago from Detroit,MI Author

You're confusing him with George Bush

The rest of world was happy that Obama won re election and not Romney

Global candidate: Obama was world's clear choice

http://www.mercurynews.com/presidentelect/ci_21946...


Donny2014 3 years ago

@vveasey

Thanks for that link. Unfortunately, some of us will never get it. I mean some of the allegations against President Obama are totally preposterous!

Guys, once again, there's been a serious tragedy in Connecticut. Why not take the time to pray for the victims' families? Let's all try to be more sensitive and quit the insults. Let's all be adults here. I'm gonna start by taking my own advice!


Donny2014 3 years ago

This might be for another hub post but the comment about the President also trying to take away the Right to Bear arms is just; I can't find a proper word to describe it. I specifically heard him say he supports the right to bear arms. What he only wants to do is pass a law that requires people to get background checks before obtaining a weapon of this nature and ban the sale of assault weapons. My only issue is that it should have been done a long time ago. From the Columbine incident the writing should have been on the wall. We can't keep having these mass shootings and act like it's okay. Now look what's happened! Why would someone even think about killing poor innocent kids? This guy and others who've done things like these had no business carrying a gun! @vveasey, not to put words in your mouth, but maybe you could write another hub expressing your view on the issue of gun control; either pro or against


vveasey profile image

vveasey 3 years ago from Detroit,MI Author

Donny2014

I don't have a hub worth of my view on the gun control issue

I know that the second amendment says "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed"

So it's seems the right to bear arms is not for hunting or anything else except to protect "a free state (the united states) from foreign enemies because at that time the Unitied States didn't have a standing army or military as it does today.

When the British attacked the newly formed State of America, state militias were formed and called upon to fight them and to create the Continental Army led by George Washington.

So this amendment was not created to defend against the United States Government, as some like to say, but against foreign government invaders.


Arnie 3 years ago

Donny, background checks are already required for people wanting to buy firearms. The crazy little bastard in CT actually attempted to purchase firearms and was rejected. Your assertions are baseless.

VV, I simply can't understand how you came to that conclusion on the second amendment. It was certainly not written with the British as the main concern. Why is it so hard for liberals to believe that there are evil people in the world who will prey on women and children and will attempt to take your freedom if they can. You must always be ready to protect it. I know it's useless trying to argue this with the anti-gun crowd, but I have attached a few quotes below from our founding fathers anyway.

"I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."

George Mason

Co-author of the Second Amendment during Virginia's Convention to Ratify the Constitution, 1788

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"A militia, when properly formed, are in fact the people themselves …"

Richard Henry Lee

writing in Letters from the Federal Farmer to the Republic, Letter XVIII, May, 1788.

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"The people are not to be disarmed of their weapons. They are left in full posession of them."

Zachariah Johnson

Elliot's Debates, vol. 3 "The Debates in the Several State Conventions on the Adoption of the Federal Constitution."

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"… the people are confirmed by the next article in their right to keep and bear their private arms"

Philadelphia Federal Gazette

June 18, 1789, Pg. 2, Col. 2

Article on the Bill of Rights

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"And that the said Constitution be never construed to authorize Congress to infringe the just liberty of the Press, or the rights of Conscience; or to prevent the people of the United States, who are peaceable citizens, from keeping their own arms; …"

Samuel Adams

quoted in the Philadelphia Independent Gazetteer, August 20, 1789, "Propositions submitted to the Convention of this State"

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"Firearms stand next in importance to the constitution itself. They are the American people's liberty teeth and keystone under independence … from the hour the Pilgrims landed to the present day, events, occurences and tendencies prove that to ensure peace security and happiness, the rifle and pistol are equally indispensable … the very atmosphere of firearms anywhere restrains evil interference — they deserve a place of honor with all that's good."

George Washington

First President of the United States

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"The supposed quietude of a good man allures the ruffian; while on the other hand arms, like laws, discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as property. The same balance would be preserved were all the world destitute of arms, for all would be alike; but since some will not, others dare not lay them aside … Horrid mischief would ensue were the law-abiding deprived of the use of them."

Thomas Paine

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"To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them."

Richard Henry Lee

American Statesman, 1788

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"The great object is that every man be armed." and "Everyone who is able may have a gun."

Patrick Henry

American Patriot

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"Are we at last brought to such humiliating and debasing degradation, that we cannot be trusted with arms for our defense? Where is the difference between having our arms in possession and under our direction and having them under the management of Congress? If our defense be the real object of having those arms, in whose hands can they be trusted with more propriety, or equal safety to us, as in our own hands?"

Patrick Henry

American Patriot

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"Those who hammer their guns into plowshares will plow for those who do not."

Thomas Jefferson

Third President of the United States

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"The constitutions of most of our States assert that all power is inherent in the people; that … it is their right and duty to be at all times armed; … "

Thomas Jefferson

letter to Justice John Cartwright, June 5, 1824. ME 16:45.

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"The best we can help for concerning the people at large is that they be properly armed."

Alexander Hamilton

The Federalist Papers at 1848

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"The greatest danger to American freedom is a government that ignores the Constitution."

Thomas Jefferson

Third President of the United States

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"There are men in all ages who mean to govern well, but they mean to govern. They promise to be good masters, but they mean to be masters. "

Noah Webster

American Lexicographer

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"The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion."

Edmund Burke

British Statesman, 1784

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"What country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance. Let them take arms."

Thomas Jefferson

to James Madison

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"They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."

Ben Franklin

American Statesman


vveasey profile image

vveasey 3 years ago from Detroit,MI Author

Arnie

Of course they are evil people in the world that's obvious. That's why people are so upset about those kids being killed and all of these other shootings. and it's not a liberal or a conservative thing.

Liberal is not a bad word an neither is conservative it's all depends on who the Liberals or Conservatives are.

There are no unlimited indivdual rights. All individual rights are limited. Yours end where mine begins. Individuals have no unlimited right to infringe on the rights of other individuals.

Historically in this country the infringing of individual rights has mainly been done by individuals and groups of individuals

The klan, mob law, vigilantes, outlaws, mobsters, racist, bigots

sexists, religious bigots, white supremacists

Just as it's being done now with these random shootings


vveasey profile image

vveasey 3 years ago from Detroit,MI Author

"The best we can help for concerning the people at large is that they be properly armed."

Alexander Hamilton

Well these shooters were definitely "properly armed"


Donny2014 3 years ago

@Arnie

For your information, there are only 11 states that require background checks for those who want to buy guns. The thing is, there is a loophole. People can buy guns off the net. People purchase guns from gun shows and they never have to do a background check.

try doing some research before you make your claims.

@vveasey,

That last statement really brought a lot of things to light. If only people would just act rationally where this gun ownership is concerned. If there were proper regulations regarding guns, there wouldn't have been all these mass shootings. Something is definitely wrong if people who have no business carrying guns are able to get their hands on one. Also how does regulating guns take away the right to bear arms? Taking away the right to bear arms means guns are banned completely! And as vveasey said, there are no unlimited rights. I need not say anymore.


Donny2014 3 years ago

You know what, I'm not gonna waste my time on this thing here. You can talk and talk until the cows come home and people will never get it.

People will always ignore the facts and come up with arguments that are totally absurd.


vveasey profile image

vveasey 3 years ago from Detroit,MI Author

Donny2014

I agree. I'm done with it too


just me222 3 years ago

Remember Donny2014 and vveasey, you are dealing with people that are quoting people that lived more than 200 years ago. Do you really believe that those people believed that we would evolve into the society that we have? Do you think they could have imagined the concept of an assault rifle? And if they could imagine an assault rifle who could possibly believe that they would be ok with the 2nd amendment? These people are just NUTS!!!!!


Rudy 3 years ago

Just me, aside from not leaving the blacks in Africa, those people that lived 200 years ago had it figured out rather well.


just me222 3 years ago

So,in your opinion,they had it figured rather well only on what you BELIEVE in,not what has changed for the worse. People like you are so one sided and cannot be convinced of what is right. Like vveasey and Donny2014,I will no longer respond to you or any like you!


Roger 3 years ago

Millions of Americans have guns in their homes and sleep more comfortably because of it. Studies show that where gun ownership is illegal, residential burglaries are higher. A man with a gun in his home is no threat to you if you aren't breaking into it.

The police do not provide security in your home, your business or the street. They show up after the crime to take reports and do detective work. The poorer or blacker the neighborhood, the riskier it is for peaceful residents.

Only an armed citizenry can be present in sufficient numbers to prevent or deter violent crime before it starts, or to reduce its spread. Interviews with convicted felons indicate that fear of the armed citizen significantly deters crime. A criminal is more likely to be driven off from a particular crime by an armed victim than to be convicted and imprisoned for it. Thus, widespread gun ownership will make neighborhoods safer.

Foolish politicians and police now seek to ban semi-automatic "assault rifles". They ignore the fact that only honest citizens will comply; criminals will still have them. Such a ban will only increase the criminals' ability to victimize the innocent.


steve 3 years ago

Let me ask your Liberal readers a question.It always comes back to "it´s the fault of the Republicans in the House," doesn´t it? No one expects anything good out of Democrats so the fact that they are backing Obama in every unconstitutional act goes without comment or complaint. Don´t any of you have Democrat representatives or senators you can complain about? And, if you do, why do you constantly complain about Bush and other Republicans?

It’s like a phobia, where someone reacts to anything that Obama does or says, they are automatically labeled as a "Racist"! I Are these people really Americans? Sometimes I have to think twice about it. It makes me sick when I see these Racist remarks. In the minds of the simpleton liberals and progressives, it was either Bush or the TEA Party for everything that goes wrong.If they can't figure out who to pin the blame on, then just Blame either one, Bush or the Tea Party. In their minds Obama can never do anything wrong. In Obama’s mind his race plays a key role in everything he touches. What a pathetic reason to hate. But that’s Obama for you.

Barack Obama has been a huge failure for this country. He has spent more than any president ten fold and yet unemployment is at 11-12% when you factor in people who have simply stopped looking for work. So don't think it's at 7.8! No president has been reelected with unemployment lower than 8%, and yet he was. There are 4+ million jobs fewer in this country than when Obama started into office. The fact that he cried about the war and how Bush was violating our rights by wiretapping and "torturing?" Funny how he has taking those tactics and turned the knob up a bit on all fronts. You have hundreds of predator drone strikes that kill, yes, but also eliminate any chance to capture and obtain information that could further help. Bush's "torture" tactics are what helped the Obama team eventually get Bin Laden.

Its been almost 4 years since Obama got in office. Where's the hope and change? How are you enjoying the health care bill that was shoved down our throats, that Pelosi said "we needed to vote on it to find out what was in it", that 65%+ of the population now wants to strike out. Wake up people. If your a far left liberal than I am not speaking to you because as far as I can see you probably don't think Obama has done ENOUGH! However, for you simple democrats, your president is destroying your party. And quit complaining about the racism, honestly? You think Bush didn't get pelted with nasty comments? How about the movie that came out about his being assassinated while he was still in office for crying out loud? You people are crazy. The man's mind is clouded by hate, anger and racial bias. Not to mention is Socialist ties..

When I hear your liberal posters say things like "He was a warmonger who let 9/11 happen while he went on constant vacation" It blows my mind. To me it sounds more lime Obama than Bush!


just me222 3 years ago

Dick Cheney,is that you?


just me222 3 years ago

Is that you Dick Cheney?


Rick 3 years ago

"Why Do The Republicans And Tea Baggers Hate President Obama?"

Because he is a no-talent assclown.


just me222 3 years ago

But your boy Romney now admits that after he took hundreds of millions of dollars from campaign contributors TWICE that he didn't even want to be President. Talk about being DUPED.


Mark 3 years ago

I’m right there with you guys! Can’t stand Obama. Certainly don’t support him, but, a Romney win would have put the opposition to tyranny asleep. In reality, having the Kenyan bastard boy back in the white house is the best thing to happen. The puppet strings go to the same people. Obama is an overt idiot and we have his number. Romney is much more skilled. Under the cover of his appearance of a less socialist/marxist administraiton, he would have been able to further the bankster agenda.

I wonder sometimes, because Obama is such a moron, if he’s really not that stupid and he’s really trying to derail the system. (…not a bad thing in my opinion.)


Carl 3 years ago

You probably don't wish to consider the posting by Mychal Massie on his blog regarding why he does not like Obama...race is not a factor, and I don't believe it is a factor with most educated people. It's his policies. Would be just as bad if he was white (which I guess you could say he is as much as black) or yellow.. His ties to radicals and radical thinking like Cloward and Piven. Those are big problems for thinking people.


David 3 years ago

I have a great concern for this country. I am a US citizen who moved back to the US after living in Canada a couple of years. In Canada, people discuss issues. While many do not always agree, there is a civil and respectful dialog about policies. I return to the U.S. (Oklahoma to be precise) and the place is rampant with hateful intolerance and a lot of misinformation. Because of the two party system and one sided media, everything is "us and them". Canada has excellent health care, providing better outcomes at a lower cost, though you wouldn't know that talking to Americans. Americans believe Canada has socialized medicine (Canadians are actually quite amused with this as we look really stupid when we make comments such as this). Canada also has about a fourth of the violent crime rate as the U.S. and if you walk around most large cities, there are a lot of different races. Oklahoma City had 99 homicides in 2012. Toronto, which is eight time larger, had under 40. So, there isn't anything we can learn from Canada? It may not be perfect, but Americans are sadly mistaken to believe that we actually have the best of everything.

To react to other posts above, there is a huge difference between the anti-Bush and the anti-Obama rhetoric. People weren't in masse shouting death to Bush. People were against his policies and involvement in the Middle east and his lack of involvement in handling the economy. We let the financial industry wipe out millions, and then gave the wealthiest a huge tax break (the highest cap gains taxes were been 15% while working people were taxed at 25-32% of income). To this day, not one has gone to jail. Hundreds of billions of our tax dollars. We should be furious for allowing that to happen. I am not so sure Americans can actually solve problems. Nobody is willing to compromise. We are the only industrialized nation without a comprehensive health care plan. Americans seem to have some unfettered faith in insurance companies, who deny coverage to millions of policy holders each year, not to mention the 45 million or more without any health insurance and can't get insurance because of pre-existing conditions (my wife is one as she's had a kidney transplant). Americans allow it's citizens to die while no other civilized nation would find that acceptable (people are not waiting years and years for critical care in Canada and Europe... I mean seriously... people actually believe this?). We can't control gun violence, yet other nations can. We have more teen pregnancy (and subsequently more welfare). We are socially backward. I'm not comparing the US with desperate third world nations, but am comparing THE wealthiest nation on earth with other industrialized nations and we have to poorest social infrastructure coupled with the highest amount of social problems.

If anyone truly believes Obama is turning the nation socialist, they are delusional. Much of Europe, especially the Nordic nations, are much more socialist, yet businesses still flourish, they have excellent health care, low crime, and an overall quality of life that is higher than ours. Instead of insulting other nations we should look at them as examples. They, after all, must be doing something right. I think we can sustain a good business climate and ensure that those most in need have access to resources. We also need to stop the handouts to those who are capable of work. I'm all for helping responsible citizens who have fallen on hard times through no fault of their own (nobody asks for a child to be born with cystic fibrosis or a spouse to come down with cancer).

Can Americans work together to solve complex issues? I have my doubts. Too much finger pointing and very little acceptance of being part of the problem. Constructive criticism is useful, but we've gone way over the line. Keep up the discourse. Our enemies love it when we turn against ourselves!


vveasey profile image

vveasey 3 years ago from Detroit,MI Author

David

Amen brother!

Magnificent discourse and analysis of the problem and is in line with my hub.

Your's is one the most thorough and intelligent rebuttals of all the Obama and socialist haters.

You're right they are delusional...but believe me, they will be calling you delusional!

The nutty love calling others nutty.

Thanks again for your comments


Raul 3 years ago

At first I didn’t believe Barack could be a big player in Bible prophecy because it kinda seemed to obvious, like if it was supposed to be harder to recognize or something but looking at the facts, the way he carries himself and of course the way the world has come to love and even worship this man in a matter of months as if it had been done through mass hypnosis, makes me believe that he may be one of the three main characters the scripture talks about will have the control over the masses of people at the end times, something most churches don’t realize for having the spirit of error and come to fall in the mistake of thinking the world leader is one and the same as the so called “Antichrist”, their doctrines are not 100 percent scriptural therefore they will never recognize the real False-Messiah and will end up accepting him thinking he is actually Yahushúa the Savior.

Most doctrines teach that there are 2 beings during the End Times that we should watch out for, the Antichrist and the False Prophet. They believe the Antichrist is the world leader which will fulfilled everything we have seen Barack has fulfilled already, but really when you get to read the Scriptures or even only the verses I’m showing on this article, we can come to the conclusion that there will be actually three creatures to take in account.

- The three main characters are and will appear in this order:

- The World Leader

– The False Prophet

– The False-Messiah

For many years the verse 14 of Revelation 13 has been misinterpreted for the simple reason that before all the knowledge and technology of nowadays, researches of Bible prophecy could not think of an “image” being an actual human body which we now call clones, they could only think of the beast making an image for the TV or a statue like the Nebuchadnezzar made of himself, they could not even think of a perfectly done hologram which could fool anybody as being real and can be done for certain with the technology some people in power possess now, like what some believe will be the “Blue Beam Project”.

Revelation 13:3 says that the deadly wound was to “one of his heads”, which means is talking of one of the past kings of the World Empire called the Beast, hence “one of the heads of the beast”. This means that it is not necessary for a world leader to die and resurrect, like many are expecting as a sign, even though there is a big possibility this is what the Illuminati could try to stage for many to believe in the False Messiah. By the “Roman Empire” being revived, the beast would be spiritually alive after the wound to he head, the Emperor Nero; “coincidentally” Lyndon LaRouche describes President Barack Obama as being exactly like Nero and it is him who they are thinking to make the head head of the revived beast also known as “The New World Order”.

According to scriptures, there will be a world leader who will begin the process of the last seven years, then the false prophet will arise and will induced to make an image of “the beast”. The Beast will create an image just like Elohim created man in image and likeness in the Genesis, which means we human beings are images, we are images for the spiritual which is the invisible.

Yahuéh gave us the breath of life, in Hebrew breath is pronounced “Ruach” and it also means spirit, so in verse 15 the dragon is given power to give breath to the Image, completing the same process Yahuéh completed with us, making the image in his likeness and give it breath of life, while on the other hand, Lucifer who is always trying to be like the Most High will tell the people under his power to genetically engineered an Image in the likeness of him who died by the sword (Yahushúa) and lived, for him to give life to.


vveasey profile image

vveasey 3 years ago from Detroit,MI Author

Raul

I started not to even respond to this but these beliefs are so far out, like those who firmly believed the world would end on Dec 21 2012...it didn't happen and had know chance of happening as the prophecy believers ecstatically and seem to want to happen.

You say "coincidentally” Lyndon LaRouche describes President Barack Obama as being exactly like Nero"

Does anybody clear thinking person really care about what Lyndon LaRouche thinks?

How can President Obama be like Nero? Nero was a Roman Emperor a dictator.

Obama is a President who will be out of office in 4 years.

He's not a dictator if he were he wouldn't have to deal with congress they would have to do whatever he wanted them to do with no say so about it. But is that the case?

Stop letting LaRouche and others play on your paranoia about the "end times" "the Antichrist" and other paranoid "prophecies.


Talib 3 years ago

I believe Barack Obama could most definitely be the World Leader spoken of in Scriptures and I think the Almighty has given me a confirmation of this being fact. I have been wanting to post this article for days but for one or other reason I couldn’t get the time I needed to finish it, then yesterday while researching some more on the matter I ran across a Muslin Shiite prophecy that I believe describes the President of the United States and could identify him as the World Leader of Bible Prophecy.

The Hadith(or tradition) is from a Shiite text of the 17th century. The tradition comes from Bahar al-Anvar(meaning Oceans of Light) by Mullah Majlisi.

According to the tradition, Imam Ali Ibn Abi-Talib (the prophet’s cousin and son-in-law) prophesied that at the End of Times and just before the return of the Mahdi, the Ultimate Savior(of Islam), a “tall black man will assume the reins of government in the West.” Commanding “the strongest army on earth,” the new ruler in the West will carry “a clear sign” from the third imam, whose name was Hussein Ibn Ali.

The Hadith concludes saying, “Shiites should have no doubt that he is with us.”

I don’t think I should have to explain the prophecy or even point out how accurate the tradition fits with President Obama. The Mahdi is the “messiah” in the Muslin world, he is coming to destroy Christianity and Judaism, therefore he is an Antichrist. The writings said that before his return a man that looks like Barack Obama, would take power over the West and the army ruling the world with a clear sign from one of the prophets of Islam who’s name is Hussein, amazingly enough Obama’s first and second names(Barack Hussein) mean “the blessing of Hussein” in Arabic and Persian.

Finally, Barack’s family name, Obama, written in the Persian alphabet, reads O Ba Ma, which means “he is with us,” the magic formula in Majlisi’s tradition.

I think he is on to something big from today until the 10th so open your eyes and ears.


just me222 3 years ago

Yep,and the Mayans predicted the end of the world in December. I think they were predicting the end of Twinkies. You really need to get some professional help. You are really tying yourself in knots in an attempt to make our President out to be some foreign ogre. It is just not true.


vveasey profile image

vveasey 3 years ago from Detroit,MI Author

Talib

What does your name mean?

President Obama is like the ink blot test where people like you look at him and see whatever your imagination conjures up.

So he's the Antichrist,

he's the Mahdi,

he's the Messiah,

he's the devil,

he's Satan,

he's an alien,

he's supernatural

He's whatever people like you want him to be.

He's whatever image or fantasies your mind conjures up and projects on to him, thinking that it's really part of him when it's really resides in your mind.

Wake up examine the motives for your willingness to believe the wildest, most non nonsensical and nutty things about him without some serious introspection about why you willing to swallow it without question.


UNGLY WHITE PEOPLE YOU NO WHO YOU ARE 3 years ago

BECAUSE HE NOT FAT AND WRINKLE WITH NO TEETH


Diana Gardea 3 years ago

THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU!!!! BUY FAR THE BEST READING I HAVE COME ACROSS IN A LONG TIME!! STRAIGHT TO THE POINT AND SOOOOO TRUE!! THANK YOU!!!


Diana Gardea 3 years ago

Opps... *by......sorry i was a little excited.


vveasey profile image

vveasey 3 years ago from Detroit,MI Author

Diana Gardea

you're welcome!


Maxwell 3 years ago

"Why Do The Republicans And Tea Baggers Hate President Obama?"

Maybe it's because our economy is in shambles and our country is in decline. I know you're going to blame it all on Bush and McConnell. Is that still going to be your excuse 4 years from now when the country is in worse shape?


straightshooter12 3 years ago

Obama is not liked because he is a complete moron when it comes to fiscal policy, economics, job creation and foreign policy and improving the quality of life for blacks and other lower income sectors of the population. I read many of the posts on this forum and it is obvious our education system and his buying your vote buy spending future generations money $6.4 trillion to date with no results but a downgrade of the country's debt rating. He had a demotic congress the first two years he was in office and did nothing but increase our national debt while unemployment grew. Blacks for 16 to 19%. Population as a whole to 8.3%. All he did was try to divert his failure buy saying we need to tax the rich, which was simply a diversion from his inept and stupid economic approach. Anybody that thinks you tax your way out of a recession is a damn fool and most of you fell for it. The BS about tax returns - if someone abides by the tax law that is the one and only central issue. If you don't like it call your congressman. Several of them are tax cheats and may not like your comments but they work for you. This tax return BS more diversion his voters fell for. All this time unemployment was really over 10% counting those who just gave up. Q1, Q2, Q3 did not work and only a idiot wants try try something that did not work a fourth time. He has no understanding of economics, only how to cover up a terrible record from the average American so they will focus on all this BS about taxing the rich. The top 1% of the income earners pay one third of the U.S. income taxes. Does that sound fair? This country has the highest corporate tax rates in the world. If you think raising taxes and creating more regulation creates incentive to invest money and helps our economy create jobs you are as stupid as he is. He raised our debt 60.4% during his time being president. he has spent millions of tax payer dollars on vacations. He has done nothing to try to lower the percentage of black babies 70 to 80% being born out of wedlock. It is an education and accountability problem. While he panders to labor unions more jobs are leaving this country and it IS NOT GOING TO CHANGE AS LONG AS Obama is president and the unions realize that you can no longer make $40.00/hr with benefits and a pension driving screws. I don't blame the corporations that are held hostage for moving the jobs as they cannot compete globally. What you don't know is the Republican congress hates him for what he is doing to this country and the American dream for future generations. Thank god for the GOP as they are keeping his spending in check. I will retire fine because i worked and saved. No govt. help wanted or needed. I have opened Roth IRAs for my kids as tax rates are going to go up and anyone under 50 years of age is going to swallow the pain pill. Corporations want to come to the U.S. as we are the largest economy in the world. But until our spending is under control, a decent tax code is drafter and regulations realistic it won't happen. Where does he go when there id a budget crises? Don't know because he disappears when there is a tough job that requires leadership. If you voted for all this during the recent election shame on you. You had a chance to put our country on the right track and were to ignorant of what drives our economic growth and in effect the U.S. standard of living. Don't blame me I voted Republican for the sake of the next two generations and I voted to fire the worst president this country has had. If you don't get it you will fell the pain in the future, especially if you do not have the correct skill set via education as you will be the first to feel the economic pain Obama is bringing on us. A statesman he is not. Just ask someone from Greece or any other socialist country. Families and companies have to act fiscally responsible why not the federal govt? If I were elected I would take the lead and suggest the big three auto makers give the employees stock options so we could cut production cost. This way management and employees are on the same side and both win win if we can cut the wages unions want to a level that would keep us competitive in the global economy. Manufactures fact two options - move outside the U.S. or just shut down manufacturing facilities that cannot compete with foreign competition. THEY MUST MAKE A PROFIT. Giving stock options to all employees and doing away with the unions would align the U.S. worker and management. Your president is not leader or he would suggest things like this. I will stack the U.S. workforce up against any country in the world PROVIDED they are aligned with not fighting there employers. Who knows maybe GM will product more than 30% of its vehicles inside the U.S. If we only had a president that can lead and try to unite people we would be fine. Right now we don't and I think he is a despicable moron that has no place in the White House. That is why so many people hate him.


chris 3 years ago

I better stay off this sends we are not face to face


tom 3 years ago

this man hates america. he loved by the people who want something for nothing. he"s a liar and hes almost a dictator like what you people want. hes just a real liberal he wants to take God out of everthing etc plus you obamanites look and see where the liberals vote on anything for the black they didnt. it was the republican party that did the most for the black people. this guy is a real chavez. now i have to leave i have to take a obama. so want on your food stamps and them checks you"ll never see. and start thinking of a chant you can make up for your savior. yda. see ya big tom


just me222 3 years ago

Wow,he hates America? He is almost a dictator? You sir,are one of the dumbest,most disrespectful humans I have ever encountered. You and the likes of you are so uneducated that I cannot believe that you can even take a dump without hurting yourselves. All you people are able to see is that a black man is in the White House and he is not the butler. You just keep voting Republican and see how much they attempt to do for you. They are the party of the Rich and Stupid. Sometimes they are one in the same and sometimes they are not!


Paytreeot 3 years ago

Well Justme, calling someone "one of the dumbest", "uneducated" "you people" is rather offensive, and if anyone even pays attention to your screed after THAT little rant, they ARE DUMB!! Great way to influence people and get your point across...not! You Dems did it when GW BUSH was President, started the incredible HATE and villification of anyone who disagreed with you, and we are just playing by those rules that your paryt established! Call everyone a Nazi (you all started it!!) and demean and accuse (especially RACIST!! A favorite of the Dems...ANYONE who disagrees with a person of Color is a RACIST!!) Oh the horror of NOT appreciating and LOVING the first Black President, it must be because he is Black. Can't be because of his stand on issues, no, ALL Republicans are RACIST, RICH LOVING, POOR HATING bigots! Now stop calling names, projecting and try and get some FACTUAL reason you LOVE this President; Present your FACTUAL arguments and see what happens; Calling names, ad hominem attacks will only result in your dismissal on line.


debc2 3 years ago

Justme222 Why should we wonder from either party what they will do for us? I can do for myself. I just wish we had someone to run our country for the good of the country. You must understand that when any president starts making decisions without congress, spending out of control, more EOs than any other, wanting to spend without going before congress, going against the constitution every time you turn around and then talk about a 3rd. term, well yes, people have a tendency not to trust him. Oh, and just FYI, I have people of mixed race in my family. You know what we call them? People.


just me222 3 years ago

It always amazes me just how much the average citizen does not know about Government. How much of our money has President Obama or any other President for that matter spent? As for your EO's President Obama isn't even in the top ten for them. The man isn't talking about a 3rd term so I have no idea where that comes from. Just a hint, you should stop watching FAUX news,it is really bad for you. And by the way,just when has he gone against the Constitution? Try checking on the Republicans and how they are attempting to get around the 27th Amendment.


Heather 3 years ago

I guess I could answer your question with one of my own. Why did liberals hate George Bush?

Someone shows Obama as Hitler and suddenly this is a problem? Liberals did not consider depictions of Bush as Hitler a problem!

I guess hate is allowed if it liberals who are doing it, as long as the hate is directed at someone...... THEY hate!

I guess all these photo's were liberals respecting Bush........

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Bush+as+hitle...


vveasey profile image

vveasey 3 years ago from Detroit,MI Author

Heather

If you think this hub is about negative photos of President Obama

You're so off track I can't even see the track

But lets play your game

When candidate Bush was running to be the presidential nominee for the Republican party, were there people carrying signs depicting him as Hitler or as a Gestapo Officer?

Were there people shouting kill him at political rallies?

Did many people think he was or might be the Antichrist?

We're people calling him a Muslim, and a Arab?

(To John Mccain's credit he took one woman to task

for saying that Obama was an Arab telling her"No he's not an Arab"

This all happened before Obama became president or had won the presidential nominee for the Democratic party.

You posted a link with negative photos of Bush but they were also negative photos President Obama among them.

I looked at your photos now look at this video and tell me honestly did you see "liberals" doing this when Bush was running for President or after he was elected?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S38VioxnBaI


stillsurfin 3 years ago

Brilliant assessment.

First let me say, I'm a 60 year old white man, Vietnam War Veteran, and a registered Republican. I voted for Bush in 2000, but not in 2004 after seeing the poor decisions he and Cheney were making and felt that if Bush had 4 more years the Country would be in a real mess.

I was shocked to see a black man get the Democratic nomination in 2008 because I know that there is still so much underlying racism, bigotry, and intolerance in America, even in my own family. My mom still hates "Japs", "Nigerodies", all non-white immigrants, and anybody who can't speak english - even though she still speaks somewhat broken english herself.

And, I was on the fence voting in 2008 until McCain picked Palin and then the true colors of racism, intolerance, and ignorance surfaced so vehemently in the Republican Party.

I voted for Obama.

I think the biggest mistake that Obama has not been Obamacare, because the most powerful nation on Earth should have health care for all it's citizens - but WHEN Obamacare was done. Obama should have focused on restoring the economy after the disaster Bush had left it in and then done Obamacare sometime later when the economy would have been healthier.

But, what has happened since 2008 to the Republican Party is sickening. They have become anti-Patriotic and anti-American - because America was always supposed to stand for the rights and opinions of ALL, not just the rights and opinions of the Christian White Conservatives. They don't want to understand what "All men are created equal" means in the Declaration of Independence means.

Bigotry will always remain to a certain extent in America, because all humans have a basic tribal nature and there is always a distrust of somebody that is not of your tribe.

However, what America needs right now is time.

Time for the old generation to die.

Time to not have a white majority.

Time for healing.

Time for all Americans to realize we are a Tribe - a Tribe of Diversity.


Roscoe 3 years ago

Lets just keep drinking the socialist Kool-Aid. The country is more in debt than before 2008.

The costs of healthcare and college are more than before 2008. There is more unemployment than before 2008. There is more poverty than before 2008. Illegal aliens have more rights than before 2008. Gas prices have doubled since 2008. Food prices are up an average of 30% since 2008. The country is more politically divided than before 2008. The countrys credit rating has been downgraded since 2008. There are more political and media attacks on religion since before 2008. There is less freedom and liberty than before 2008. Voting for Obama is voting to end the republic once and for all and voting to end the American dream for generations to come. Voting for Obama is voting for failure.


stillsurfin 3 years ago

Roscoe,

You probably find the following uncomfortable. And, I'm not trying to open a closed mind - that is a extremely difficult task to do. But, I couldn't let your propaganda go without a rational response.

True - The costs of healthcare and college are more than before 2008. Food prices are up an average of 30% since 2008.

That's the funny thing about inflation. prices always go up. you could say the same thing between 2004 and 2008 (Bush's fault ? - I personally don't think so). You can say the same about any two 4-year periods in the last 100 years (except maybe for the Great Depression period)

True - There is more unemployment than before 2008. Jan 2009 it was 7.6, Jan 2013 it was 7.9. not a big deal. But,if you think .3 is an indicator of failure of the American dream, compare that to Jan 2008 (4.9) and December 2008 (7.2) under Bush - an extremely poor record.

http://www.ncsl.org/issues-research/labor/national...

True - The country is more politically divided than before 2008. That was (is) because Republican's #1 priority was to make America as bad as the could so Obama wouldn't get re-elected. Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face !

False - Gas prices have doubled since 2008. Gas was $4.10 per gallon in June 2008. Funny thing about gas prices. You can try blame the white house, but that is not why gas prices fluxuate. It is due to something called economists call Supply and Demand. If you really want to know about the future of gas prices, check out a documentary called: A Crude Awakening. By the way it is neither Conservative or Liberal but non-political.

True - The country's credit rating has been downgraded since 2008. You can thank the Republican House for that. Congress approves spending and the raising the debt limit just authorized what Congress has already approved. Blaming Obama for that would be like you getting the blame if your neighbor's wife charges up her credit card her husband doesn't want to pay the bill. Shouldn't the person who gets blame be the person (Congress) who racked up the credit card - not the one that is forced to pay it?

False - There are more political and media attacks on religion since before 2008. You're confusing the First Amendment of the US Constitution with your personal whims and desires. You remember the US Constitution, don't you? The First Amendment doesn't say Christianity is the "law of the land" and all US Governmental institutions have to worship Jesus Christ. What Conservative Christians want is a Theocracy (just like Muslims have in Iran), but that is constitutionally not allowed in America - Thank God.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theocracy

False - There is less freedom and liberty than before 2008. This statement is just good ol' propaganda. Exactly what freedom was taken away from you personally in the last 4 years?

Sorry, but your anti-Obama post blaming him personally for the "end of the American dream" is exactly that kind of nonsense that is unrealistic or untrue.

Posts like yours continue to widen political divide in America and THAT kind of inaccurate banter is, in fact, what is ending the American dream for generations to come.

Luckily I (and you) will be dead in a few decades and hopefully the new generation that takes over from us will be more tolerant, educated, honest, and not racist.


Leroy 3 years ago

Let's take a realistic look at why we are in the current financial mess. Beginning with the Democrats and President Clinton's push to force banks and mortgage companies to lend to low-income home buyers — coupled with the Democrats running Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac — the process that has placed us in the position of heading toward the current financial debacle was put into place. Then, with Clinton's signing of the American Home Ownership and Economic Opportunity Act of 2000, the dye was cast. Institutions that did not want to lend monies to those who could not afford to buy homes were advised that they would be investigated by the government. Thus, the ARM (adjustable rate mortgage) came into being in full force. Huge balloon payments were the norm for the ARM and when they came due — equally huge foreclosure numbers for those who couldn't pay them were the result.

As foreclosures increased, a domino effect began that took down mortgage companies and publicly exposed the corruptions inherent within the Democrats' personal slush funds — Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. Then, the commercial banks — the ones who had initially been forced to carry the bad-paper mortgages "or else" began to fail. After that, other banks and lending institutions started to experience problems and then — as the world's banks are now connected — European and Asian financial institutions have begun to crash. What was put in place by US Democrats as at its best "good intentions" for poor folk and at its worst another way to scam the system has now caused world-wide panic in financial institutions.


stillsurfin 3 years ago

Leroy,

I'm not a fan of a lot of the Democrat or Republican Ideas that pad their own personal pockets.

I do believe in fiscal conservatism.

Neither the Democrats or Republican have a monopoly on bad ideas.

I agree completely that Clinton and the Democrats set the stage to create the financial problem of 2008.

However, a couple of things happened that fueled the situation.

1st, the Gramm-Leach-Biley Act.

The bill was brought up in the Senate by Phil Gramm (R-Texas) and in the House of Representatives by Jim Leach (R-Iowa) in 1999. The bill was passed by a Republican majority. The legislation was signed into law by President Bill Clinton on November 12, 1999.

This Act allowed for the creation of giant financial supermarkets that could own investment banks, commercial banks and insurance firms, something banned since the Great Depression. Its passage cleared the way for companies that became "too big to fail".

2nd, was the perception that developed that housing prices would never go down, only increase in value. This perception was rampant and reinforced by many "experts" which contributed to average and above average income people started stretching themselves beyond what they could realistically afford, with the idea that "no problem I'll just sell it in a year or two and make lots of cash".

3rd, was "speculation" that was running rampant that Millions could be made in the real estate market (just like the Dot Com Boom a few years earlier).

4th, financial institutions were rewarded on how many and how big of loans they could do, not the quality of the loan.

5th, the final straw - the deregulated super-sized financial institutions (which were created by the Republican congress and signed into law by Clinton) created the "Derivatives" market. They combined a bunch of crap loans into a big package (supposedly to reduce risk) and then sold the package - again making lots money.

Then the whole house of cards came tumbling down.


stillsurfin 3 years ago

Oh, by the way ... again not to place blame - because there is enough blame for both Democrats and Republicans, but:

The third lawmaker associated with the Gramm–Leach–Bliley Act was Rep. Thomas J. Bliley, Jr. (R-Virginia), Chairman of the House Commerce Committee from 1995 to 2001.

During debate in the House of Representatives, Rep. John Dingell (Democrat of Michigan) argued that the bill would result in banks becoming "too big to fail." Dingell further argued that this would necessarily result in a bailout by the Federal Government.

Which is exactly what happened.

The lesson learned:

Don't throw stones if you own a glass house. Especially if you are a Democrat or a Republican.

The other lesson learned:

Don't believe whatever any "political party" tells you !

Far Left Liberal Democrat, Moderate Democrat, Moderate Republican, Far Right Republican or even a nut-job Tea Bagger. All will spin the truth into lies to gain "Power" - which translates into expensive cars, swiss bank accounts, yachts, and multiple homes that they can visit depending on the time of year and their whim of the moment.

great website to visit if you want to actually know some more about the Gramm–Leach–Bliley Act:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2010/04/29/861900/-T...

oh, by the way...this is one of the "freedoms" that Roscoe has been trained to want. De-regulation because regulation is BAD....supposedly.


vveasey profile image

vveasey 3 years ago from Detroit,MI Author

stillsurfin

Thanks for the compliment

and I have to return it

Your responses to Leroy and Roscoe

are Brilliant, True and Impartial!

I like the way you think!


stillsurfin 3 years ago

Heather,

I read your post above asking the question:

"Someone shows Obama as Hitler and suddenly this is a problem? "

I have a different question.

Why do people have to be so disrespectful at all by showing either Obama or Bush as Hitler?

Neither one was a Dictator, but a President elected by a democratic process in Country where people are free to be themselves and voice their opinion. Which is not true in many nations and was not true in Germany in the 1940s.

Yes, we have different opinions but vilifying an American President by displaying him as Hitler is childish, boorish, and I believe only done by those too ignorant or incompetent to have a civil thoughtful discussions and debate.

Civil debate is one of the reasons America was great. I say "was" because it seems that civil debate is lost in today's America.

Today it seems that all people do when politics comes up is talk and never listen.

I see more and more people refuse to actual listen to other's political point of view, but instead just keep reiterating what they already think.

What bothers me most about the "hitler pictures" is I see individuals doing this to Obama and who did it to Bush - all the while claiming (in some cases screaming) they are "Great Patriots" or "True Americans".

Those actions are the exact opposite of what it means to be an True American.


vveasey profile image

vveasey 3 years ago from Detroit,MI Author

Amen Brother!


stillsurfin 3 years ago

:)

vveasey, you have some very interesting people who follow and comment on your hub.


vveasey profile image

vveasey 3 years ago from Detroit,MI Author

Yep, that's putting it euphemistically!

The haters tend to always be more motivated to set fire to a

hub about someone they hate or despise.

And it's like they can't help themselves.

They seem compelled to spew their crazy comments and no amount of reasoning seems to phase them.

because

They don't really won't to have a rational conversation about this hub or what they believe.

They just want show you that you're wrong and they're right

And the more you try to reason with them or show them facts that contradict what they fervently believe...the more entrenched in their beliefs they become.

No answer will suit them, except the one they already believe.


vveasey profile image

vveasey 3 years ago from Detroit,MI Author

stillsurfin

How are they interesting?


stillsurfin 3 years ago

vveasey,

"Interesting" just means arousing curiosity.

I found a number of thoughtful posters here and I'm curious to know why they believe what the believe, so I can grow.

Those that are only negative, refuse to have a rational dialog, or seem to heap written abuse on anything that smells like a Democrat - I just find "curious".


stillsurfin 3 years ago

Hi Paytreeot,

I read your post and you were right to be offended.

Your statement "Now stop calling names, projecting and try and get some FACTUAL reason you LOVE this President" deserves a response.

Sorry if this a bit lengthy and you're welcome to disagree or agree, no worries either way.

First I have to tell you I don't LOVE this President, I LOVE my wife.

I think Obama is a better than average President.

But, to the general gist of your question here are some of my personal impressions of Obama and 2 pros and 1 cons - there are many other pros & cons too because Obama isn't perfect - nobody is.

1st Pro - Obamacare.

As I mentioned in an earlier post, I believe the most powerful nation that ever existed on Earth should be able to have a system where all of it's citizens have health care.

You may or may not agree with me, but I equate Health with Safety.

We have spent many Trillions to create the largest and most powerful Military in Planet Earth History (and continue to spend over $700B every year to maintain and improve it) for the supposed purpose to "defend" America and make it's citizens "safe".

http://www.globalissues.org/article/75/world-milit...

If America can spend that many taxpayer dollars to make us "safe", we should be able to spend a fraction of that to ensure we have healthy citizens.

The ironic fact about Obamacare is one of the most contentious principles was developed and proposed by Conservative Republicans. Facts below:

http://healthcarereform.procon.org/view.resource.p...

But, because the Republicans of 2008 (and later) maintain that the #1 priority is to go against anything that Obama is for, they were forced to do a 180 on the issue.

Now is Obamacare is not perfect - nope, not a all. But it is better than nothing at all, in my opinion.

1st Con - Obamacare.

The timing of Obamacare and the way it was done was terrible and I blame Obama for not standing up to the Democratic Congress to show restraint. The Democrats "rammed" the issue through and it created too much bad will as a result.

Also, it gave ammunition to the faulty perception that Obama is a "socialist", which I don't believe he is any more than any of the past dozen or so US Presidents were. There are lots of reasons to justify my belief, but this isn't the time to go into those.

But, what it did do revive Mccarthism in America (just instead of a Communist witch hunt, now a Socialist witch-hunt).

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/mccarthyism

The ironic thing is that those running around calling Obama a Socialist either don't know what it means or pretend they don't know what it means.

Socialism refers to an economic system that is characterized by social ownership of the means of production and social management the economy, neither of which Obama supports.

BUT, he was forced to take certain temporary actions to prevent another Great Depression which had the "appearance" of Socialism. Providing money to the American auto industry and financial institutions were 2 notable ones.

2nd Pro - Alternate Energy. There is a 100% chance America will run out of oil - that is a FACT. If steps aren't made now to encourage Alternate Renewable Energy sources it won't matter if our children inherit a large debt, they won't have an American society like ours to live in anyway.

And, the end of cheap oil is coming fast.

The problem is that the only way to get started when cheap oil is still available is to subsidize the alternate energy industry.

And yes, oil is CHEAP. Bottled water (which is "renewable") cost 3 times as much as gasoline (which is "NOT renewable") and when oil is gone, baby it's gone forever).

Obama is the first President to take the issue seriously and have the courage to TRY.

But, whenever an entire new Industry is starting up there is a 100% chance there will be failures.

The Republicans over-emphasize the failures and completely ignore the successes for political purposes, not for what is best for America.

If you really want to understand when America will run out of oil and why, you really should watch the documentary:

A CRUDE AWAKENING

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Crude_Awakening:_Th...


Donny2014 3 years ago

@vveasey and @stillsurfin

You guys are among the few people on here who are rational in your comments; you in parrticular stillsurfin. No bias. Just being objective and I love how both you and vveasey have facts to back it up. If only more people would do the same.


stillsurfin 3 years ago

Thanks for the compliment, Donny !

I appreciate it.

But, I feel bad that my comments tend to be long.

Unfortunately, when I try to provide both context and some facts to support an opinion, it takes more words than just stating an opinion by itself.

So, I do apologize for being verbose.


vveasey profile image

vveasey 3 years ago from Detroit,MI Author

Thanks Donny

glad to see you're still here checking things out


Donny2014 3 years ago

Stillsurfin,

Don't worry about your comments being too long. You said a whole bunch of things that the Obama-haters and bashers need to read. It was quite a lot of what I myself didn't really realise. Problem is many of us fail to utilize the internet or libraries. We don't seem to realise how much sources of information we have at our disposal.

vveasey

Glad to still be here checking out sttuff at least once in a while. I find this blog not only interesting but quite informative. Good job!


stillsurfin 3 years ago

Hi Straightshooter12,

Noticed your comment where you said:

"Obama is not liked because he is a complete moron when it comes to fiscal policy, economics, job creation and foreign policy and improving the quality of life for blacks and other lower income sectors of the population."

I could respond to the entirety of this statement, but that would be quite a long comment.

Let's just take the first: fiscal policy.

1st, most people don't know what fiscal policy even is, although they hear from TV commentators all the time.

"Fiscal Policy" is the means by which a government adjusts its levels of spending in order to monitor and influence a nation's economy.

http://www.investopedia.com/articles/04/051904.asp...

Now to your comment that Obama is a "complete moron" when it comes to fiscal policy......

Unfortunately, Obama was confronted with a signifiant "Recession" when he took office, now I'm NOT blaming Bush for the recession.

That is where most political discussions come apart, Democrats blame Bush and that inflames the Republicans into closing their mind to any dialog.

Just a FACT: America was in a Recession in Jan 2009.

So, what Fiscal Policy is used when an economy is confronted with a Recession?

Virtually every economist agrees that the way to deal with a recession is to TEMPORARILY increase government spending and reduce taxes - temporary is the key word here - for BOTH actually.

Well, here is where it gets interesting......

America was also in a small recession in 2001, Bush's 2nd year.

http://seekingalpha.com/article/55450-u-s-recessio...

How did the Bush Administration respond?

By taking the expert's advice and implementing a "Expansionary" Fiscal Policy, which means: increasing government spending.

http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/spending_chart...

Bush also used the 2nd weapon against recessions and reduced taxes with Economic Growth and Tax Relief Reconciliation Act of 2001, which had a sunset clause (they would end) at the end of 2010. This action was also supported by the Conservative Heritage Foundation, which published a report predicting that the cuts would result in the complete elimination of the US national debt by 2010.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_Growth_and_T...

Unfortunately, Bush's Expansionary Fiscal Policy (no blame here - just a fact) wasn't "temporary" and government spending continued to increase every year from 2001-2008.

Now Obama takes office in Jan 2009 and is faced with a Recession, just like Bush.

What does he do? The SAME as Bush (of course), implement a Expansionary FIscal Policy - Increase Government spending to get through the recession.

Unfortunately, for Obama, Bush had used up the other weapon for dealing with recessions: Tax Cuts.

If Obama had tried to push for a tax cut while faced with the largest deficit in American history (which he inherited), it would have been devastating.

Bush started with a National Debt in 2000 of $5.9T and handed it to Obama at $10.7T - again NO BLAME, just a FACT.

http://www.skymachines.com/US-National-Debt-Per-Ca...

So, since Obama couldn't reduce taxes any more, the only thing he could do was "extend" the Bush Tax cuts from 2010 until 2012 to help with the recession, which he did.

Now, WHEN the current recession ends (hopefully soon), Obama must move away from an Expansionary Fiscal Policy, because it is meant to be temporary just to get out of a recession.

Unfortunately, he can't do that today (regardless of what his political opponents say) because we are still in a recession !

Bottom line:

Obama's Fiscal Policy is essentially the same as Bush's, which is the same any President would have to take when facing a Recession.

http://useconomy.about.com/od/candidatesandtheecon...

So, if Obama is a "complete moron" with regard to Fiscal Policy, then every preceding President before him is a complete moron, too.


vveasey profile image

vveasey 3 years ago from Detroit,MI Author

stillsurfin

Brilliant!

And very astute with the fact finding and comparisons

I couldn't have done it better myself...or maybe not as good...nah

I could! Hahahahaha!


ImKarn23 profile image

ImKarn23 3 years ago

ok..i'm officially exhausted from...'the scroll'...omg...i am NOT as young as i once was...lol..

now..on to more important issues than my hand cramps - this AWESOME write!

i've written a lot about the election - before, during, and after - and i remember the 'Anybody But Obama' crowd only TOOOOO well..

The bullheaded, rhetoric-spewing, brain-washed, koolaid-drinking, insult-tossing, arrogant, racist types - OH - i see you've met a couple yourself..lol..

The thing is that those who are easily indoctrinated - are easy to anger when challenged with common sense and facts..

i remember asking one particularly adamant man this question: If the DEVIL HIMSELF were running against Obama - who would you vote for..

How many nano-seconds do you need to make an educated guess? Sigh..

I often wonder where the line is between free speech, hate speech, and out and out treason!

sometimes - i do believe your 250 year old constitution doth trip all over itself, my friend. the future is in moving FORWARD and MEETING todays challenges..

i have a feeling if traced back - a lot of these obama hater's families used to own slaves - a bit of a blanket statement perhaps - but no more so than their blanket(black blanket) statements about him..

up and sharing! (omg..i gotta get all the way back UP again? Think i'll use the elevator this time..) lol..


just me222 3 years ago

stillsurfin,I have read and with great interest,I might add all of your comments. All I can say is BRAVO! It is not because I agree with all you say and I do,it is because it was all written with an educated hand and explains all of the positions perfectly. I find that it is difficult at best for people that hate to argue with facts. Facts are the one thing that trumps hatred,for the most part that is. Thank you for your eloquent,educated posts. Very informative..


stillsurfin 3 years ago

Just me,

I'm sure that my comments are not as well written as you say, but I do appreciate the feedback.

thanks !


vveasey profile image

vveasey 3 years ago from Detroit,MI Author

stillsurfin

No need to be modest or subtract from your praise. You earned it.

No need to be boastful (which you certainly aren't)

you earned it


HLPhoenix profile image

HLPhoenix 3 years ago

While this hub was written 2 years ago.. it is a fresh today as it ever was... there is no question that the reason Barack had to have protection earlier than other potential Presidential candidates has only to do with his race... no that's not quite true, cause as we all know Barack is 50% white. Geneticially speaking his phenotype is Black... but we all get 50% of our Genes from each parent so his genotype is 50-50. So it is his skin color that is threatening to so many of our fellow citizens.... Why? My guess is that if a black man can succeed so spectacularly then those who are so unsuccessful as humanbeings, in their own estimation... rich or poor, that they have always only felt superior to the poor uneducatable black man... have lost all excuse for their own feelings of superiority. If a black man can lead the free world, and do it well... who are they? Does this sound extreme... how else can we account for it.

It is very hard for many of us to understand how even some of our own friends and or relatives can be absolutely rabid on the subject of Barack even though he is far more on their side than those who ran against him.. as a so called 'white' person I cannot understand valuing anyone based on the color of their skin... we each have to prove our selves by the content of our character... those to lazy to prove themselves... just talk others down until they feel there is someone they are superior too without making any effort at all.

Barack, through his own efforts and his 100% excellent genes, succeeded beyond most of our abilities to do.... how uppitty of him.


vveasey profile image

vveasey 3 years ago from Detroit,MI Author

ImKarn23

Elevator...that's funny!

Yeah this hub generates a lot of emotion and a lot of emotional (to put it mildly) comments

Going down to comment on your hub was kind of elevator ride too! hahahaha

well worth the ride but never the less quite a descent.

You said "The bullheaded, rhetoric-spewing, brain-washed, koolaid-drinking, insult-tossing, arrogant, racist types - OH - i see you've met a couple yourself..lol." Yep!

That's one of the reasons I said "we're two peas from the same pod"

These types of hubs are like blood in the water for the racist sharks.

"omg..i gotta get all the way back UP again? Think i'll use the elevator this time.. lol".

You crack me up!

Thanks for reading and sharing your thoughts


Skarlet profile image

Skarlet 3 years ago from California

Its not about hating him, its about being fed up with lies. I just got to pay my "special" tax on my home this year. Obama promised that I would not see my taxes go up on dime. They went up way more than that, and I have not seen the whole impact of it. That is my biggest issue. I am sick of the lies in order to get votes. I would rather just hear the truth.


vveasey profile image

vveasey 3 years ago from Detroit,MI Author

HLPhoenix

thanks for commenting

You say Obama is 50-50 racially but that doesn't matter because people still use the "one drop rule" and "racial" characteristics to determine who's black.

So he's black even though his skin isn't black...but many, many "black" people's skin isn't literally black but they're still called black.

You said "how uppity of him"

Yep back in the day he would have been openly called an "uppity nigger". But that's not a fashionable thing to do today (political correctness)

Some people probably still refer to him that way in private


stillsurfin 3 years ago

Hi Skarlet,

I'm interested in your situation that the special 3.8% tax went up on your "home".

The way you wrote that would leave somebody (who doesn't know all the facts) the impression that it went up on the home that you "live in".

That is how mis-infomation gets started and how somebody who hates Obama already (not you necessarily) will now start repeating another "good" reason to hate Obama.

The 3.8% special tax ONLY applies "investment" real estate and only applies to individuals with adjusted gross incomes of $200K or more (or couples with more than $250K). And, even then it is NOT applicable to ALL investment real estate.

So, were you referring to the home you live in or a house that you rent out?

And, I'm a bit surprised at that you say Obama "lied" to you about this, when raising taxes on high income individuals was one of his main talking points during the election a few months ago.

For others curious about the 3.8% special tax Skarlet is referring to, a good article is below:

http://www.realtor.org/small_business_health_cover...


stillsurfin 3 years ago

Skarlet

Oops

The 3.8 Special tax also applies to capital gains, too.

Which could apply to a home that you had lived in.

Sorry.


druhepkins 3 years ago

I also did a hub about Obama hatred a few years ago. Although I didn't say straight up that he was hated for being "president while black", I did zero in on a strange, cult-like hate for this president unlike any other. The "reasons" and justifications for hating Obama went from absurd, to untrue, to not making any sense at all.

This a a great hub and a great dialogue from commenters. I have to say, there seem to be a lot more wild, hate spewing, anti Obama rant full hubs than ones like this and I definitely appreciated it. Pretty often when commenting, I find myself the one of the only one who feels the way I do and I get swarmed and labeled. Although I can hold my own, this is quite refreshing.

Voted up. Great hub!


vveasey profile image

vveasey 3 years ago from Detroit,MI Author

druhepkins

Thanks1

Glad you found some kindred spirits!

This hub attracts the haters but also some who feel they have a ligitimate

gripe against President Obama, and probably a few who think Obama can hardly do anything wrong.

But thank God it also attracts the thinking, intelligent, rational, fact finding, impartial thinkers, who try to see President Obama and related issues with an open mind with no ax to grind


stillsurfin 3 years ago

1st a disclaimer – the following is based on my experience with Obama Haters who I know personally and my opinion may or may not be representative of Obama Haters in general.

And … it is a very LONG post !!!!

But, it does include advice that you might find financially advantageous.

I DO NOT think all Obama Haters are of low intelligence, some are obviously are - just like some Democrats have low intelligence - because that is the nature of human intelligence, there is a pretty wide range from low to high. In fact, there are many highly intelligent people who are "Obama Haters".

And, I DO NOT think they are "bad" people. The vast majority are God-fearing, Church going, pay their taxes, don't engage in criminal behavior (well maybe some white collar stuff or petty theft, but not stuff like murder).

I do believe there are two groups of Obama Haters. There are a few other groups, but they have a small number or members.

The two major ones are:

Group 1:

They know exactly what they are doing by slamming Obama at every turn and taking the opposite position of whatever Obama is for, even when they actually agree with Obama. They completely understand that Obama is not a "bad" President and they don't "hate" him - but they make lots of money, fame, and/or political power from the perception that Obama is "bad".

Members of this group include some that either own large companies (like the Koch brothers), part of the 1% very wealthy, those involved with Oil and Gas Industries, actors (like bill o'reilly), or Politicians - or wanna-be Politicians (like palin - also an actress, but just not very good).

This group “controls” things and benefits (money & power) directly from Obama hatred. They orchestrate the agenda for the 2nd group using tools like Fox News and local & national politicians to stoke fear and hatred.

Group 2: They hate Obama out of "principle".

They do believe that Obama is bad.

This group can be successful, average income, or poor. They have a tendency to believe conspiracy and pending disaster theories (like Obama's birth certificate, the year 2000 and armageddon), because they believe "somebody is out there somewhere" controlling and manipulating stuff.

I suspect each and every one of them watches Fox News or gets there thoughts and opinions from somebody who does and actually believes that Fox News is "Fair and Balanced". They are the ones that won't or can't have a civil dialog about politics.

This group doesn't control really anything and doesn't benefit at all from Obama hatred.

They are pawns in the game of life.

And, I think that this group has the most overt and covert racists.

Now for a very selfish reason I'm curious about this 2nd group and try to understand everything I can about them because I have benefited greatly from them. Not in a bad way like manipulating or abusing them.

The 2nd group has a "herd" mentality.

Individuals from this group (whom I know and am related to a few) are the ones that during tail end of the Bull Market runs did stuff like take out loans to buy stocks (no joking) because everybody else was making money - that is when I moved out of stocks.

It is the same group that has members that I know personally at the tail end of the recent Bear Market said “I take it anymore” and moved out of the stock market - that is when I went back in.

Now, I have tried to give advice to them, but they "know" everything so my advice has always fallen on deaf ears.

For the last 4 years this group of Obama Haters has and continues to vociferously pontificate that the American economy is in shambles a complete disaster, keeping their savings in the bank (earning about 1%) or in a shoe box at home ......

While the stock market went from 7,900 in Jan 2009 to 14,000 today !

They also do things like spending their savings for dehydrated food in preparation for the disaster of the year 2000 (again I have an Obama Hater relative who did that).

And, spend their savings buying guns, rural property, and dehydrated food in Texas preparing for the collapse of American Society (again, I have an Obama relative who is doing that, they didn’t respond when I mentioned the area they bought is a dry desert region, so dehydrated food could be a bit of a problem).

So, when in Obama's 2nd term the stock market hits 16,000 or so you'll start to hear the 2nd group talking about buying stocks because the economy is doing great (due to the republicans effort to thwart Obama, no doubt) you'll know what to do.

Right now, I'm living a very good life in Hawaii, do not have a job, surfing almost every day, playing in the sun, eating well, happily married for 38 years, and have plenty of friends - and MORE THAN HAPPY to pay whatever tax rate Obama comes up with !!!

Because I have more than enough money to last the rest of my life.

So, my advice is: watch, listen, and try to understand what the 2nd group of Obama Haters is thinking, saying, and doing.

It is how a guy named Warren Buffett has made Billions.

Me - I’ve only made millions.


GlendaGoodWitch profile image

GlendaGoodWitch 3 years ago from California

Its called the Tea Party Movement and I can tell that you have not idea what its all about because the main stream media has distorted the facts as usual by eliminating pertinent footage and gathering as many scenes of the worst people as possible to show the public.

Obama used the name "tea baggers" in a derogatory manner, perhaps this did not lead to love from the movement. I see you have followed suit of Obama's hate by using the name instead of its real one.


stillsurfin 3 years ago

Glenda,

OK. Lets call it the Tea Party then.

Why do you hate Obama?


vveasey profile image

vveasey 3 years ago from Detroit,MI Author

I'd like to know that too GlendaGoodWitch

I assume you're referring to the title of this hub

My use of Tea Baggers is not derogatory

but I'm am making fun of them


druhepkins 3 years ago

vveasey, stillsurfin, Tea Party members resent being called "Tea Baggers", but I've seen much worse from the Tea Party crowd with hubs like "Obama the Dumb", "Liar in Chief" etc., etc.

As a group there was no clear agenda and their wild opinions, ability to attract racists, ability to attract religious freaks, ability to attract the Low IQ misinformed, and overall strong influence on GOP candidates took the party down hard and fast. Like you mentioned stillsurfin, these people have been led by opportunists and powerful entities that found Obama hate useful. This Obama hate has become a cult that will be hard to let go of.


vveasey profile image

vveasey 3 years ago from Detroit,MI Author

druhepkins

I agree.

It will be hard for them to let go of

probably after he's out of office they'll let go of it

hummm....but then again...you never know

but that's what I think will probably happen or at least their attacks may lessen


stillsurfin 3 years ago

druhepkins & vveasey,

Your comments makes me wonder if an ironic thing could happen.

Could Obama Haters be listed as an "official" Hate Group and all tracked as "individuals" by the FBI, since they have the attributes of a "Hate Group"?

FBI Law Enforcement Bulletin - March 2003 Issue defined the 7 Stage Hate Model of a Hate Group as:

1. Group gathers

2. Group defines itself

3. Disparages target

4. Taunts target

5. Attacks target without weapons

6. Attacks target with weapons

7. Destroys target

Obama Haters seem to be in stage 3 or 4.

Obama Haters also hate the Federal Government and believe that the Government is evil and run by bad people - which is "out to get them".

So, if Obama Haters don't start to settle down and let go of it, the FBI might be "forced" to start tracking them as individuals and monitor their activity.

The ironic thing is that Obama Haters could unwittingly create a self-fulfilling prophesy, because of their vehement and irrational hate of Obama.


druhepkins 3 years ago

I don't think they'll ever be taking seriously as a hate group because I doubt they'll ever be organized enough to be a serious threat. Just a lot of influenced and compromised folks, mostly old, on the wrong side of history ranting and complaining. Obama's presidency will end and nothing they've predicted or have been fear mongering about will happen and the world will move on. In 4 years Rush and the gang will have to quickly invent another boogie man.


stillsurfin 3 years ago

I hope your right.

Except about Rush, wouldn't it be refreshing if he became a Buddhist and spent the rest of his life seeking enlightenment and peace.


vveasey profile image

vveasey 3 years ago from Detroit,MI Author

stillsurfin

I can see your point but I agree with dru

unless they get to stage 5, 6 and 7

You said "The ironic thing is that Obama Haters could unwittingly create a self-fulfilling prophesy, because of their vehement and irrational hate of Obama."

Isn't that kinda what they've done already?

Obama is the ink blot test (Rorschach test)

where they project all of their self-fulling paranoia and conspiracy theories about him being the "evil" world leader predicted in the Bible or that he's the antichrist (unbelievable). Has some nefarious hidden agenda. Has hypnotized all of those who can't "see" what they see about him

He's supernatural!

I wonder how they think they can stop him? Hahahahha!


vveasey profile image

vveasey 3 years ago from Detroit,MI Author

stillsurfin

Rush seeking enlightenment and peace?

Priceless!

I don't know if you were being funny

but that's hilarious!


stillsurfin 3 years ago

Yeah, it was meant to be a bit of fun....


stillsurfin 3 years ago

Just saw the funniest thing on Jon Stewart... the Florida Tea Baggers are now fighting for the right to ride manatees.

Because if the government stops them from riding a manatee the next step is the government stopping them from opening a business.

Uh....yeah...that makes sense....


druhepkins 3 years ago

That's what I'm saying about focus and organization stillsurfin, not happening lol. Manatees?


vveasey profile image

vveasey 3 years ago from Detroit,MI Author

stillsurfin

Hahahaha!

See what I mean about them already living

out their self-fulling paranoia

These people will use anything no matter

how nutty as evidence for what they ferverently believe


stillsurfin 3 years ago

Endangered species - no problem !

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/tue-february-19-...

I'm pretty sure this teabagger thought all of these in the link below were pretty darn good eatin' ---- while they were around, too:

http://www.thedailygreen.com/environmental-news/la...


playteaux 3 years ago

I just found this article today and to be quite frank, I never saw these racist images of Obama before. I am not a Democrat and I never saw them at any of my political meetings or rallies. I am not kidding. This is actually news to me and I do not think I have my head buried in the sand because I am very politically active. I did see disparaging signs at other rallies that were hateful against Republicans, Tea Partiers and Republican presidents. I am just curious. Were these made up by liberals then blamed on Republicans? I am also not a Republican but after much digging into some of the so-called newsworthy racist remarks that may Dems claim the Reps said, most of them were either completely fabricated by the left wing media or taken completely out of context to appear racist. I have a feeling that these images may fall into that category. Don't shoot the messenger but Obama is not doing such a great job.


vveasey profile image

vveasey 3 years ago from Detroit,MI Author

playteaux

thanks for commenting

are you saying that because you haven't seen these

images, that they have to have been faked?

Are there anythings that you haven't seen but you do believe in?


stillsurfin 3 years ago

Playteaux,

I'm VERY interested in your post.

Especially, because like you I am not a Democrat and no longer a Republican.....not sure what it is, but it is definitely not one of those two. I think I'm Bi - because I swing a little political both ways.

What interests me is your statement:

"but after much digging into some of the so-called newsworthy racist remarks that many Dems claim the Reps said, most of them were either completely fabricated by the left wing media".

It sounds like you have dug into this quite extensively and have many examples of this, could you please provide a bunch of factual examples (or even a few) that prove your statement that they were "fabricated".

Also, I'm interested in which media sources are "left wing", could you please let me know which those are?

The reason I'm asking that is the usual definition I hear from Republican and Tea Party members when I ask that question is "left wing" media is ALL media - that is NOT Fox News.

Which I find unrealistic and paranoid.

They even claim CNN is "left wing", while I find CNN is one of the most un-biased news stations out there. They hit both Democrats and Republicans with equal vigor.

I personally find MSNBC is more Democrat, than Republican, but just not as vociferously biased.... but, other than MSNBC I'm not aware of others.


ImissAmerica 3 years ago

He's a socialist who has divided this country. He won bc we have a society that wants the govt to take care of them. I'm offended as an Independent voter that you would post these disgusting lies about the tea party. The pictures of Obama on this page is sickening.


stillsurfin 3 years ago

Hi ImissAmerica,

I'm really glad that you see that the pictures of Obama on this page are sickening, which they are ! - and, they would be sickening whether they are done with Obama's image or Bush's image.

You seem to have a sense of what is right and wrong.

But, I'm interested .... what facts are there that makes you think Obama is a "socialist"?


stillsurfin 3 years ago

Hey playteaux,

I'm hoping that you've just been a little too busy and haven't gotten around posting that extensive list of all those factual instances of the left wing media completely fabricating examples of republican and tea party making raciest remarks.

As a fellow non-democrat/non-republican - I really hope you weren't just making it up !

I'm countin' on ya buddy.

PLEASE post the list.


BestCountryUSA 3 years ago

Racist ... I write these individuals off as ignorant (dumb) , perhaps a result of poor parenting and judgment, really uncalled for. These discussions should never over lap with government policy even if you are a racist (this is dumber than dumb). Many voters find the strangest ways to rationalize there behaviors.

Religion ... Also should be kept separate from politics. We don’t need to get crazy and start removing the reference of GOD from dollar bills. GOD is a general reference and isn't specific enough to offend most people ...but I'm sure it will.

Socialism ... Apparently many people have been sleeping at the wheel. Taxes & social security have been around for a long time. We've been living with socialism in our government for centuries. I'm amazed at how many people don't understand the difference between socialism and communism. To suggest Obama is leaning towards communist is absurd. Again lack of understanding.

Further more … Our government has become very large and amorphous. I don’t believe any one person and/or panel of experts and/or group of politicians fully understands all of eco-political influences, here or abroad. It’s a challenge for any president or party to turn a country around in four to eight years. Our current situation is a result of years of government policies. Fewer policies & less government is what’s needed. Infrastructure (roads, etc.) and national security (military) is most important.

Have to be careful here … National security is important, but this does not require US dabbling in as much political foreign affair as we do …military to protect the homelands is most important (some will understandably say foreign and internal affairs are related, but it should be limited). One party may spend more on welfare, social security, health care, etc. While the other spends it on military for overseas intervention, foreign support, oil control, etc. The fact of the matter is big government is too big …we need to stop expecting a president to release new policy that acts as that proverbial silver bullet that will solve all of our own problems and challenges (this expectation will only compound the problem of growing government) …and no I’m not an anarchist.

Yours truly,

An educated white male who is registered republican ...who voted for Obama ...who doesn't agree with his health care policy, but still believes he's the right man for the job.


stillsurfin 3 years ago

BestcountryUSA,

Your post is articulate with no "rants", refreshing - thanks !

You and I agree on a number of points and disagree on others, but that is ok.

Let me provide one fact for you to consider (there are many more philosophical and factual reasons) of why I do want rational health care for our American citizens (Obamacare).

FACT: American citizens were already paying for universal health care before Obamacare, but in a dramatically more costly system.

The Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act was signed by Reagan in 1986.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergency_Medical_Tre...

This law required hospital emergency rooms to take all uninsured patients that showed up. This allowed uninsured to use emergency rooms for everything from a sore throat to cancer and required hospitals to keep patients once arriving the patients indefinitely until they "stabilized" which could take months or years.

I know personally about this because I had a brother-in-law who made about $250K a year, but would not buy health insurance for himself or his family. He instead bought boats, tvs, and trampoline and going to Vegas - basically spending his money on a frivolous lifestyle.

Then he got colon cancer and ignored the signs for years because he didn't have health insurance and didn't want to pay for a doctor visit (he had no regular doctor).

Then when it got severe he used the Emergency Medical Treatment Act and used the emergency room for surgery.

Then because he couldn't work (and he transferred his assets to an associate) he got classified as indigent and Medicaid picked up the rest of his medical expenses.

He lived for about 4 years before dying of cancer at 45.

This scheme is very common and the insurance companies and hospitals have to raise their prices to accommodate for the uninsured using the emergency rooms process.

Unfortunately, the uninsured couldn't show up for any preventative care - only after they get sick.

And, everybody gets sick it is only a matter of time.

But, who ended up paying? Well, You and I - along with all the other working taxpaying American citizens at a cost much higher than it should have cost.

Bottom line: There individuals who were opposed to the "mandate" that could easily afford health insurance, but have other priorities - until they get sick. Then somebody else had to pick up the tab.

And, they persuaded others to fight for their cause to not have to buy health insurance. What I can't understand is why would anybody who did buy health insurance fight for the their cause. - maybe you can help me understand that.

But back to my brother in law, what would have happened if Obamacare was in place.

Well, he would have had to buy health care insurance. He would gone to the Dr. when the first signs of Colon cancer showed up. He wouldn't have used the emergency room process (which is very expensive). He wouldn't have had the American taxpayer pay for his medical costs through medicaid.

And, he probably would have lived longer than age 45.


BestCountryUSA 3 years ago

I was hoping my other comments would resonate more than my concern for Obamacare.

Respectfully, I disagree ... Obamacare reminds me of no-fault auto insurance which I'm required to carry by law in the state of Connecticut. What if I don’t want it? So in the same way … With Obamacare, if I wanted to opt out of any and all health insurance I would have to pay a "penalty" tax. Although there’s some goodness with Obamacare …I feel as if insurance is being forced upon me.


stillsurfin 3 years ago

no worries about disagreeing.

Interesting that you bring up auto insurance.

Do you pay for auto insurance, and if so - why?


stillsurfin 3 years ago

No, It did resonate and I did get the points of your post.

I'm just using your comment to discuss Obamacare, since it seems to be a common reason that Republicans and Tea Party members hate Obama.

So, you don't need to answer the above question, but I'll get into some facts about Health Care Insurance and Auto Insurance.

Fact: The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration estimates that the average American has a 30 percent chance of being involved in a serious automobile accident in their lifetime.

Fact: The leading causes the 2,468,435 people who died in 2010 in America are:

Heart disease: 597,689

Cancer: 574,743

Chronic lower respiratory diseases: 138,080

Stroke (cerebrovascular diseases): 129,476

Accidents (unintentional injuries): 120,859

Alzheimer's disease: 83,494

Diabetes: 69,071

Nephritis, nephrotic syndrome, and nephrosis: 50,476

Influenza and Pneumonia: 50,097

Intentional self-harm (suicide): 38,364

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/deaths.htm

Fact: everybody does die.

If you use 2010 as a typical indicator of the probability of death, the probability that you will die of because you get sick is 93.5%

So, here is the situation, when I hear people complain that they have to buy Health Insurance under Obamacare.

I have to ask......

Why would anybody buy auto insurance when the probability is only 30% that they will ever be involved in a serious accident and need auto insurance?

And ..... not buy health insurance when the probability is 93.5% they will get an ailment that the will probably eventuallyy die from and need health insurance.

That situation doesn't take into consideration that there are many more illnesses, broken bones, chronic arthritis, carpal tunnel (from typing comments on the internet), and the hundreds of other ailments that are health related.

So, if you include those - there is a 100% chance that an American will need health insurance.

And, if it weren't for Obamacare - the taxpayers would have to pay for those that didn't buy it.


BestCountryUSA 3 years ago

Thank you for 2nd lengthy reponse.

I think you missed the point ... I'm a strong advocate of " freedom of choice".


God fucking dam 3 years ago

RePUKElicans have small brains, little dicks and... well.. I guess that is it.

They have no valid reason for living. Okay, maybe the weeds need the carbon dioxide, but that is the best I can think of. Fuckem


Martha Skye Martin 3 years ago

Your use of the term Teabaggers says it all. I don't like Obama's white half either.


vveasey profile image

vveasey 3 years ago from Detroit,MI Author

The so-called tea party associates itself with the historical "Boston tea party"

Isn't tea associated with tea bags and isn't it popularly sold in teabags? Therefore I jokingly called the so-called tea party tea baggers.


tru-anarchist 3 years ago

i see this hubs been going on a while :-) KINDA LONG SO BEAR WITH ME HERE

First off i am NOT a Obama supporter NOR a BUSH SUPPORTER NOR A DEMOCRAT NOR REPUBLICAN I AM A TRUE ANARCHIST I FEEL WE NEED NO GOVERNMENT TO TELL US WHAT WE CAN NOR CAN NOT DO , WHAT I CAN NOR CAN NOT BUY NOR HOW MUCH I CAN BUY ,WHAT I CAN EAT NOR NOT EAT, WHAT I CHOOSE TO SMOKE NOR NOT SMOKE, I FEEL GOVERNMENTS ARE SET IN PLACE TO CONTROL AND BRAIN WASH PEOPLE IN TO THINKING OF THERE WAYS AND THERE WAYS ONLY ( REMEMBER AS A CHILD WE WERE TOLD RUSSIANS AND COMMIES WERE BAD PEOPLE AND HATED ALL AMERICANS?)AND LAWS THEY MAKE UP ( YES I DO THINK LAWS OF MURDER RAPE AND OTHER VILE THINGS NEED TO BE IN PLACE BUT IF YOU KNEW THE TRUE MEANING OF ANARCHY THEY ARE THERE ALREADY ) AND NO ANARCHY IS NOT MAIM KILL DESTROY LIKE SOME PEOPLE THE MEDIA WOULD HAVE YOU BELIEVE ITS PEOPLE WORKING TOGETHER TO CREATE WORKING SOCIAL SOCIETY TOGETHER NO FIGHTING NO MURDER NO LAWLESSNESS ITS WHATS MINE IS YOURS AND YOURS IS MINE IF I STEEL FROM YOU IM ONLY STEALING FROM MYSELF THAT IS ANARCHY ! AMISH PEOPLE LIVE IN A TRUE ANARCHIST FASHION EVER HEARD OF A BARN RAISING THE WHOLE COMMUNITY COMES AND HELPS EVERY ONE AND THEY HAVE A HUGE FEAST BIG OL PARTY THAT MY FRIENDS IS WHAT TRUE ANARCHY IS AND YES IT DOES WORK ITS BEEN PROVEN TO BY MANY AFRICAN AND CENTRAL AMERICAN TRIBES COMMUNITY WORKING TOGETHER NO ONE IS ABOVE ANY OTHER HUMAN IN THOSE TRIBES THERE IS NO LEADER NO CHIEF NO PRESIDENT EVERY ONE PULLS THERE WEIGHT TO MAKE THAT TRIBE OR COMMUNITY SURVIVE THAT IS TRUE ANARCHY

I BELIEVE EVERY ONE OF EVERY SKIN COLOR OR NATIONALITY IS EQUAL I DESPISE THE WORD RACISM ONE BECAUSE EVERY ONE IS OF ONE RACE THE HUMAN RACE

PEOPLE ARE FROM OTHER NATIONALITIES EVERY ONE BLEEDS RED EVERY ONE HAS FEELINGS AND YES I KNOW BLOOD ONLY TURNS RED WHEN IT HITS OXYGEN BUT GUESS WHAT IT CAN SAVE YOUR LIFE IT CAME FROM A WHITE SKINNED HUMAN A RED SKIN HUMAN A BLACK OR LIGHT BROWN SKINNED HUMAN A OLIVE SKINNED HUMAN OR A YELLOW SKINS OR WHAT EVER COLOR IT IS DON'T MATTER SAME DIFF

OK then that said

first things first lets do some history shall we

1 republicans were supporters of freeing slaves ( Lincoln was republican) the Demo-craps were against it hence the Civil war ya remember that from school right ? North vs south Grant vs Lee well SOME how over the years this has flip flopped the other way although MOST White supremacy groups are democrats ( NATIONALIITYIST MORONS ) some how over these vast years this has changed

NOW...I am Not gunna go way way way WAY back and find the republican MORON WHOM posted Obama takes credit for everything BUSH did that was and i use this term loosely "" good"" and blames every bad on Bush......

OK lets do some history shall WE lets go back to good ol November 4, 1979

52 Americans where held HOSTAGE by Iran extremist IT WAS AND A IS PROVEN FACT CARTERS ADMINISTRATION was the ones that got them freed WAY WAY WAY back in Sept 1980 LONG BEFORE Reagan took office the following day of January 20 1981 it was the republican party that Stopped them from coming HOME because they were afraid carter would pull what would be called a October surprise and win a the Americans votes and approval again ( it was too late in the game for that to happen he had already lost BUT they didn't want to take any chances) so they held it up UNTIL Reagan had taken office IN FACT On January 20, 1981, at the moment Reagan completed his 20‑minute inaugural address after being sworn in as President, the 52 American hostages were released by Iran into U.S. custody, they ( the republican party ) and Reagan administration took all the credit for there release

NOW THEN LET COME FORWARD A bout 29 years YOU Republicans whine, cry, spew, complain, and down right come up with some serious lacking silliness about Obama Not being of American birth and his birth cert saying its fake, forged doctored etc.

1 it says its a copy well guess what SO DOES MINE FROM OREGON IT says right on it a CERTIFIED COPY IN FACT I HAD TO MAKE A SCAN OF IT TO PROVE TO SOME TEA BAGGING WING NUT WHOM SAID THAT CANT BE AND SEND HER A COPY OF IT TO SHOW HER ( YES I TRUST HER WITH A SCANNED COPY WOULDN'T HAVE IF I DIDN'T AND YES I COVERED IMPORTANT INFO OUT )

2 its doctored

well any fool be it a republican, democrat, independent, ETC can PHOTOSHOP any picture to there liking to do what with it ....start MORE silly scandals.

3 the hospital he was born at didn't exist at that time

WELL HERE IS NEW FOR YOU BRAINLESS TWITS i have friend WHOM IS VERY CLOSE TO Me KNOWN FOR MANY YEARS got in to it with one of you mindless twits about this

HE WAS BORN ON Aug 21 1961 in the same hospital as Obama OBAMA'S Birthday is AUG 4 1961 the mindless twit told him that was impossible since that hospital was not there in that year it was built in another year my friends reply to him SO ACCORDING TO YOU I WAS BORN A DIRT LOT THEN SORRY I HAVE MY BIRTH CERT THAT SAYS the day and the YEAR on it in the same hospital so that ones tossed out

Now ... how about this MR bush and his SO-called win against Al Gore to presidency please tell me HOW THE heck does a state forget to count votes? please tell me in fact a state that his BROTHER WAS GOVERNOR FOR kinda fishy in my book

ALSO MR SMARTY PANTS HOW CAN A STATE OR Private detective FIND A FATHER OR MOTHER WHOM has skipped out on child support find them in less then a MONTH or 2 to garnish wages? OR find s a ex wife or husband whom owes alimony and garnish there wages when they skip town or jump from job to job or even some wing nut hording ammo and guns and bust down his door and arrest him BUT IN 10 years with the best intelligence agency in the world couldn't find ONE man with bad kidneys and ON kidney dialysis for gods sake in a desert ? and by golly NO NOT ONE Weapon of mass destruction in IRAQ? they say that Saddam had why not you ask cause they did not exist he was nothing more then a wind bag smack talking whom used lies and fear to subdue his nation and scare others in to thinking he did Dictator THAT YOU the republicans PUT there in the first place remember Iran/contra or did you magically forget that like FL forgot to count votes? whom where they helping?? the TALIBAN YOU THE REPUBLICAN PARTY SUPPLIED THE TALIBAN WITH US ARMS !!!

and why oh why did good old bush put the bin-ladens family on a plane the next day IN FACT HOURS after the 911 happenings? seems to me IF he suspected them as he did he would like any other law enforcement WOULD go to the family FIRST not send them away

SO YOUR LITTLE BUSHIE ISN'T THAT GREAT !

and why is it I RECALL HERE IN CALIFORNIA PAYING 4.95 a gallon for gas when bushie was president but you people come up with this most insane idea that gas was sooooooo much cheaper when good o W was in office? ( and don't say BS on this because i worked for a gas station at this time and changed fuel prices DAILY some times 3 times a day UP 10 cents a pop )

FACT WE IN THE US STILL PAY THE LOWEST PRICE FOR FUEL IN THE WORLD! so stop whining

3 at Obama 2nd win of term of office john boehner ( BONER) came right out and said he will stop Obama at every turn period HOWS THIS NOVEL IDEA FOR YOU REPUBLICANS start working with him AND TOGETHER and stop fighting him at everything hes TRYING TO fix and some he is not like OUR 2nd amendment rights YOU Republicans know that one the Right to bear arms

NOTHING WILL UNTIL BOTH PARTIES PULL THERE HEADS OUT OF THEIR REAR-ENDS AND WORK TOGETHER AND STOP THIS BICKERING AND FIGHTING AND THERE INSANE LUST FOR POWER MONEY AND FAME AND TRYING TO HOLD EVERY POSSIBLE SEAT IN THE SENATE AND CONGRESS STOP PERIOD

NOW reasons why Obama is hated

1 his skin color THIS IS MOST OBVIOUS

2 changes he said he would make to better this country ( republicans HATE change unless it benefits them)

3 hes democrat REPUBLICANS HATE DEMOCRATS IN OFFICE AND VICE VERSA

4 his religion is Muslim and not of any type of christian faith so this is BAD! ( BIG DEAL I FOLLOW BUDDHISM I GUESS THAT MAKES ME UN-AMERICAN TO REPUBLICANS DARN :-/ )

5 republicans wont be satisfied until they impeach him on some trivi


GlendaGoodWitch profile image

GlendaGoodWitch 3 years ago from California

vveasey, Thanks for putting words in my mouth. I didn't say that I hate Obama, and I don't hear members of the tea party saying that they hate him either. I dislike what the democratic party has done to the middle class and the fact that they lie to us by telling their silly stories that they are for the working class and that Republicans are anti middle class.

As an immigrant who has always made a living by starting businesses I can tell you that Republicans do make life easier for we who are job creators. I am not talking all the silly gay marriage, the abortion issue or any of the nonsense that democrats like to throw at us to keep our minds off the facts.

One of my friends, an Italian immigrant, who has owned a very successful restaurant in California for 20 years just attempted suicide after the past four years of democrats have literally run him out of business. He was regulated into infinity, taxed on numerous made up things, and eventually went upside down. I walked into his home to find his dog pacing, and then discovered him lying in his bathtub with blue lips after swallowing a bottle of vicodin and a bottle of vodka. I did CPR on him for 15 minutes before he coughed and color returned to his cheeks. Fortunately, group of Republicans have taken it upon themselves to help small business people who have become victims of democratic policies and are backing him to open a new restaurant.

I have seen several appalling things happen in the disgusting state that does all it can to keep we who take on risk and provide jobs to those who simply don't want to.

I know you won't like what I have to say as it is factual and not just an MSNBC fantasy.

Anarchist- you are pathetic and should simply move to a communist country. Americans were not being taught that Russians hate Americans. The fact is that the Russian government was out to get America. That is a fact and now that your freedom is not being directly threatened by Russia you have the freedom to be the arrogant fool you are.


tru-anarchist 3 years ago

GlendaGoodWitch You must have been living under a rock YES WE WERE TOLD THE RUSSIAN PEOPLE WERE BAD FOR THERE BELIEFS IN COMMISSION they were noting but war mongers and ALL RUSSIAN PEOPLE HATED THE AMERICANS this is NOT true yes there WERE Russian government officials that had it out for the USA BUT NOT THE GENERAL PUBLIC THEY WERE BRAIN WASHED LIKE WE WERE think DO YOU REALLY think the Russian people wanted to go to war knowing the same thing that we did that if they bombed US we would send bombs right back and NOTHING would be left of either country the people of Russia were just as scared of war as we were ! now then then IF your SOO republican why couldn't you answer ANY of my questions about bush and his little war mongering? and IN FACT any of the points i pointed out? why BECAUSE YOU KNOW DAMN Well i know what the heck i was talking about and yes i can also pick on the democrats as well but you DON'T hear them starting stupid scandals over trivial things like the Republicans do AND HOW THE HECK DO YOU BLAME TAXATION IN CALIFORNIA WHEN THE LAST GOVERNOR WAS.......... A...... REPUBLICAN and NOW ITS THAT DEMOCRAP JERRY BROWN AGAIN WHOM SCREWED UP CALIFORNIA ECONOMY IN THE FIRST PLACE AND TOOK OFFICE IN 2011 that 2 years in office NOT 4 that democraps have been in 2013-2011= 2 NOT 4


stillsurfin 3 years ago

tru-anarchist, I agree with most of what you have posted - but, I do have a couple of comments you might want to consider....

First, what you describe as "TRUE ANARCHY" is fundamentally Communism.

I personally think Communism would be a great system, if it wasn't for human nature. Unfortunately because of our flawed human nature a Communist system is "unlikely" to ever succeed on a large scale - the system fails because there are always humans who value power over morals and integrity.

I'm not certain that Glendagoodwitch understands communism since she (I'm assuming a she with that name) made a comment like "move to a communist country".

Because there is no "communist" country. Only bastardized attempts by some governments using communist ideals to control the population to the benefit of a rich and elitist class.

Second, I am also a Buddhist.

And as a Buddhist - I strive to be gentle and considerate of which I'm not successful all of the time..... But, I still strive to be.

I'd suggest you might consider making your points (of which many are valid) without the constant shouting (using capital letters) and using mean-spirited verbiage.

"hate" is not a virtue that Buddhism advocates.

Glendagoodwitch,

I do hope that you understand that "Job Creators" was a term made up by republican strategists to protect the extreme wealthy in America and "divide" America in absolutely the wrong way - just to get votes from the majority of "non-Job Creators".

It is a "myth" to propagate the perception that Republicans are for business owners and Democrats are not. This simply isn't true - but, when the talking media heads on foxnews say it over and over again the weak-minded start to believe it.

In a capitalist economy, the true job creators are Consumers - and the majority of those are in the middle class.

Consumers are what make the American economy work - not Republican-termed "job creators" or "job workers".

And taxing the rich to make investments that grow a system that increases Consumers is the single smartest thing we can do for the middle class, the poor and the rich - because if Consumers are secure and thriving ..... America is secure and thriving.

Also, I don't think that a political party should be protecting the super-rich (who don't really need to be so rich that 120' yachts with dozens of servants aboard is the "norm").

By the way I'm retired and my personal income (much of which is treated as regular income - not capital gains) is averaging over $350K per year and I pay between $80K and $90K per year in taxes.

If anybody has a right to complain about taxes, I do. But, I do see the good in a taxation system which provides infrastructure for American Society.

I just wish politicians in DC could work "together" on things to make my tax dollars work harder.

And, I wish America's military was truly for defense and not so extremely slanted to offense - the amount spent on the War Machine would be about 1/20th of what it is today.

Oh..... I do find God Fucking dam and Martha Martin posting above to be just mean people propagating mean ideas.


GlendaGoodWitch profile image

GlendaGoodWitch 3 years ago from California

Typical. You sound like any average liberal trying to justify being run our of business by ridiculous regulations and taxes. Some real life factual experiences fall on deaf ears.

No one is suggesting that we don't pay taxes. The argument that we need to pay taxes is pathetic.

We are not in danger of being under taxed, and that is not my point.

Open a business in California and then tell me about it. I get up and go to my office at 5:30, and then my flood of bills amounting to $8,000 comes in, and then I realize I have to let some employees go because the new laws are making it impossible for me to bring home a paycheck. This is the scenario that is increasingly common here. The only way to profit is to cheat, and this is what everyone does in my mother country. They cheat the government because they are being taxed to death. My cousins have jobs and don't tell the government because they want their dole too. This is how socialists try to get a piece of the pie, and now I am seeing Americans doing it. The dems here have over spent and now they are trying to take in out of our hide. I just had a new tax hit me called an entertainment tax. I don't have entertainment in my business but because they are so desperate for money they are saying that the neighborhood that my office is in is "entertaining" and therefore I need to pay an additional $1500 per month. I cannot sustain this any more than the other businesses here can. You have not clue and yet you mouth off like an MSNBC talking head.

You are arrogant, narrow minded, unable to see any point of view that does not support the nonsense that is in your head.

P.S. Your language shows your lack of vocabulary and education.


stillsurfin 3 years ago

Glendagoodwitch,

LOL !!! Wow, you are funny and childlike !!!

I'm surprised that you didn't claim my mother is a whore, my children are ugly, and my dog has mange !!!

Not only did you miss the boat on all your attempted insults.... I happen to be a fiscal conservative, registered Republican, with an Engineering degree and an MBA, and think MSNBC is biased just like Foxnews.

But, you might want to have a serious self-evaluation about WHY you see the need to blame everybody else for your problems.

Especially, you might want to explore facts instead of (foxnews and rush limbaugh) propaganda about those "evil liberal democrats" creating all your problems.

You might find it liberating to know the real truth about both Democrats and Republicans - when you finally come to the understanding that the "taxes" and "social programs" you claim caused by ONLY democrats, are really the work of politicians in both Parties.

Unfortunately, often people who either cannot or will not seriously look at facts and truth, find it easier just to blame and hate others. That is one of the primary reasons there are so many wars and violence in the World.

As far as your failures in the business world, it might be that you just don't have the temperament or abilities to manage a business.

I don't know if you do or not, but based on your posts it seems like there is a reasonable chance your just not cut out for running a commercial business.


tru-anarchist 3 years ago

stillsurfin its nice to see some one that truly understands what anarchy is thank you and You are correct i shouldn't yell Nor shout or be meanish for that i will apologize and you point with Communism is correct human nature always takes over with greed and power the proven anarchist societies that have works are ones that do not Know of this modem world we live in they have to help each other survive so the greed and hate-rid and lust for power doesn't exist true anarchism is based on Marxist theory

the thing that bothers me most are the right wing Tea baggers like goodwitch that blame everything bad on the democrats and the extreme right wing liberals that try to take away every right that was given to us by our founding fathers thinkg that is the WHOLE democratic party and not look to see what and where there republican party has gone wrong tthe tea party people expect the resceeion to be fixed over night sorry to say that will not happen look back at the great depression from 1929 -1941 do the math it wasnt 4 years or even 8 not every republican NOR democrat is bad its the one that lust for power and greed and dont care about the american public and Im gunna say this i dnt care what type of business you own run wot have goodwitch but if your running a restaurant it WILL fail its proven MOST restaurants and diners fail within the first 3 years of opening i have over 25 years experience as a chef i have been down that road helped people open them and do good then POOF next day no ones coming in bills stacking higher and higher because no customers my friend back home in Oregon had to close hers in one years time she owns two others that are doing fine this one just refused to take off it isn't JUST California its every where that is a FACT


stillsurfin 3 years ago

tru-anarchist,

yep, your right on again....Restaurants have a dismal long term success rate - regardless of location.

I find it interesting that goodwitch made her claim to fame in a previous note of making a living by "starting" businesses..... but no claim about making a living "running" businesses.

There are many individuals who see themselves as a "Job Creator" by starting up a business.

But, are actually detrimental to the economic society because they get the hopes up of employees when they employ a few people - who end up right back in the unemployment line a few months or years later in actually in worse psychological and socioeconomic condition.

Not because of their skills and talents, but because of inept employers who don't know how to "run" a business.

The skills to "start" a business are completely different from the skills, expertise and talent to "run" a business.

Now I'm not saying goodwitch is one of these inept Job Creator individuals - because I don't know enough facts about her specific situation. I just find it curious that she only mentions "starting" businesses, not "running" businesses and she apears to blame others for her business failures.

In America the "system" is set up to encourage and facilitate new business startups with over a half a million started each year.

http://www.sba.gov/sites/default/files/FAQ_Sept_20...

It doesn't take much to actually start a business - no business plan, no short and long term Strategic Plan, no real understanding of revenue & costs (including taxes), and no talent for attracting and keeping employees.

goodwitch,

I would find it VERY interesting if you could back up your statement "I can tell you that Republicans do make life easier for we who are job creators" with ANY facts to support claim.

Please "tell" us....... but please use "facts", not just your perception.

I'd be more than happy to try see your point of view with my "arrogant, narrow mind" - if you can provide any facts and truth.


deep 3 years ago

Impressive comment made above.. " ...the real truth about both Democrats and Republicans - when you finally come to the understanding that the "taxes" and "social programs" ...are really the work of politicians in both Parties. "

- USA political battles between dems & republicans are about as "real" as the professional wrestling. The only real point is to keep the masses controlled and avoid them creating a new collective group or voice and revolting against the trators .. I mean the politicians


stillsurfin 3 years ago

deep,

I love your analogy !!

Professional wrestling ! How True !

Most Americans fall easy prey to both the Republican and Democrat propaganda and take sides like they are in a tribal war - fuming, spitting, pontificating, fighting, yelling, screaming, and just regurgitating the "messages" that they have been programmed to repeat by the respective biased media (like msnbc and foxnews) and super-biased talking radio-show heads.

I find very few individuals who repeat the propaganda to have ANY idea of the facts behind what they are saying.

They are so entrenched in their programmed position that they are blind to truth and reluctant to even discuss issues with a calm and open mind.

Most are so brainwashed that when you ask for any "facts" behind their opinion, they just get mad and throw out personal insults.

But as far as your analogy -

If we could only "require" that all the Professional Politicians (of both major parties) wear wild costumes and take on crazy stage names - now that would be the awesome.... And appropriate !


stillsurfin 3 years ago

McCain would be great wearing only Red, White, & Blue Depends and going by the name:

The All-American Geezer !

:)

sorry - I just couldn't resist.


tru-anarchist 3 years ago

Deep that is the best analogy yet pro wrestling! HAHA red white and blue Depends BAWWWW HAHAHAHAH

Lets get REAFYYYYYYYYYY to rumble!!!!!!!!! BAWWW HAHA


Tom 3 years ago

You guys are silly for trying to make Obama look good. You have to think about whats good for the country not your welfare and unemployment checks. This man is spending money faster then any president ever and he will make sure the world currency is not the American dollar. Fight for your fair share and fair shake, but it will not make you feel like your getting something these are useless comments.


laloba 3 years ago

I am disappointed that now that President Obama has won a second term, and need not worry about re-election; that he hasn't asserted himself in a big way. Why doesn't he tell the Tea People to "go to hell, because.....blah.blah,,Why doesn't he get mad and talk turkey with his detractors? He seems rather spineless, and I voted for him. I am puzzled by his super cautious approach to anything. Speak your mind Obama! Are you afraid of alienating people? You already have, so who cares? Remember Harry Truman? You are being crticised for not doing enough for black people, well that is sooo stupid, you were not elected to help just black people. You were elected to run the nation, yet you don't have the cojones to talk back to your detractors. Those Tea Party people are a bunch of super uneducated yokels who don't know anything, they hate you because you are one half black. Tell them "the buck stops here", and yes the pun is intended. You First Lady has done NOTHING to enhance you terms in office. She has been a hindrance. I wonder what the history books will say about you and the ever present racism in this nation. Do not let those troublemakers in Congress get paid! Pass a bill! I was very disillusioned when you meekly bailed those financial crooks out to the tune of billions. Get out of the Middle East now! I will vote for Jesse Ventura. The man speaks the TRUTH and we can actually understand what he's saying. Hey, I lost my house.....So why are we spending billions in foreign aid to countries that hate us??? OPEN YOUR MOUTH AND SAY SOMETHING-ANYTHING, President Obama, you really have nothing to lose.


vveasey profile image

vveasey 3 years ago from Detroit,MI Author

laloba

I agree! I think President Obama is way too conciliatory!

I think it's partly because he was successful as community organizer and was successful getting people from both parties to work together when he was in the Illinois senate.

I think that make him overly confident that he could always get opposing sides to work together.

He's a really smart man but he's not really a fighter but more like a referee

I share your disappointment


Loa 3 years ago

Obama is not smart he is barely clever. If you are sad over his being overly concillatory, perhaps you fail to notice that he does not negotiate with those who oppose his positions such as Congress. He will welcome the Chinese, the Iranians, the Muslim Brotherhood and even have a beer summit - but to battle it out with Congress? No - too unschooled and cowardly that he resorts to reprisals such as WWII memorial closures - which are funded by the public and open 24-7 -- it is costing tax payer money to close monuments during his ranting over his losing to the opposition to the UNAFFORDABLE CARE ACT He behaves like an infant due to being spoon fed all his life - He will grow up but not until he is in his 60's -- Poor guy had it made but played the cards politically rather than RIGHT.


vveasey profile image

vveasey 3 years ago from Detroit,MI Author

Loa

Yeah and the republicans who oppose him in everything he wants to do even when it was something they were originally for. Are just the "salt of the earth". Their original goal was to make him a one term president by opposing everything he tried to do even if it meant tanking the economy. They failed. So now they're trying ruin his second term


Robert 3 years ago

@vveasey: I read this entire thread. I would love to debate you... But I need you to respond to MZAZ before I get started. They bring up many fine points which you and others---like you---have clearly ignored for your own benefit. It's simply ironic, because your strategy isn't very convincing.


Robert 3 years ago

By the way... I was a democrat...until Sept 11, 2012, when the regime decided to manufacture a complete and utter lie, refuse to send in a rescue seven times, repeatedly denied the CIA operatives (whom were killed) to stand down and do NOT attempt a rescue.

But they did not follow Obama's unlawful orders. As referred in the Geneva Convention and directly explained in our ROE (Rules of Engagement), any threat to the United States, US troops, US assets, friendly foreign forces and multi-national observers---or any ally---must be swiftly dealt with as the order is to use the proper force necessary (whether deadly, or say non-combatant) is paramount.

So please answer MZAZ...and I will further debate you.


vveasey profile image

vveasey 3 years ago from Detroit,MI Author

Thanks for commenting Robert

I'm not a democrat or a republican

You say"because your strategy isn't very convincing."

I don't have a strategy. I'm just stating my views. This is America you can believe anything you want to

I don't want to debate anybody because in my experience with this issue no one's views are going to change.

So unfortunately you'll have to debate someone else.


Fred 3 years ago

The reason for the early hatred was not solely based on his race.

It was his ideology - Obama's extreme hatred towards the way this wealthy country made it's way and the means in which people were casting their votes for him - based more on supporting obama's race rather than his view points. Our countries change in demographics had a lot to do with him winning the election - much like the jury panel in the oj simpson trial. As much as one can claim race to be the cause of the hatred towards Obama, it is also his race that won him the election and why a large number of people support him today - these are the same supporters who would be the first to call someone a racist. A lot of people do not like what is happening to the US due to the change of demographics - which is controlled by the government and can win elections. People who accuse people of being racist need to take a hard look at themselves - it takes one to know one.


stillsurfin 3 years ago

Fred,

Can you provide any facts to justify your beleif that Obama has an "extreme hatred towards the way this country made it's way"?

Are you talking about him hting wars like World War 2?

Because one of the key reasons that America became the powerhouse it is today- is because America was at max industrial production coming out of WW2, while ALL the other industrial nations were in shambles.

We had about a 20 year "head start".

So, if you're talking about Obama having an extreme hatred of war, I might slightly agree with you.

But, I can't see any other reason you would have that belief - unless you "just don't like the man" for your own personal reasons.

Facts please.


stillsurfin 3 years ago

Fred,

Oh one more question....

From your post, you belive there are a lot of "people" that hate him because ....."people were casting their votes for him - based more on supporting obama's race rather than his view points".

Do you believe that "those same people" who hate him because of that - would ALSO hate every white politician who had votes cast for them because of thier race?

I'm not suggesting that you are one of "those same people" - I'm just asking if you believe "those same people" are hyprocrites?

Because if they are not hyprocrites - they would hate EVERY politican who has ever had votes cast for them because of their race.


stillsurfin 3 years ago

Fred,

One more followup to my last post - a specific example....

I actually talked to one of my relatives who lives in Texas today.

While he and I get along as relatives (sort of), he is VERY racist. I try to keep our conversations about the weather as much as possible.

He voted for Romney because he was the "white alternative", even though he didn't like Romney at all.

He also voted for Ted Cruz, whom he thinks is the "Great White Hope" who is going to be the next President and get this country out of the black man's hands.

So, another question..... do you think "those same people" who hate Obama because he had votes based on HIS race - also hate Ted Cruz because he has had people vote for him because of HIS race?

Or, do you think they would just conveniently "ignore" that little detail even though they use "race voting" as a reason to hate Obama?


stillsurfin 3 years ago

Robert,

I went "up" and read MZAZ's post.

You must be kidding about wanting to debate that foolishness.

I hate being critical, but it would be a complete waste of time to try debate the nonsense in MZAZ's post.

It would be like trying to debate somebody who believed the the earth was flat.

Facts, data, evidence, and truth are meaningless concepts when somebody has such absurd beliefs as those posted in MZAZ's post.

As a result, no sane person would waste a minute "debating" that garbage.


stillsurfin 3 years ago

Robert,

for an example..... how can anybody "debate" wether Obama is a Muslim or not.

MZAZ might have well claimed Obama is a Hindu, Mexican, Martian, a time-traveler from Atlantis - what is there to debate?

And you can replace any of the above with "Muslim" below....

It would go something like this.....

MZAZ: Obama is a Muslim

You: No he's not, there is no evidence that he is a Muslim

MZAZ: Prove he is not a Muslim.

You: Please provide ANYTHING that proves that he is a Muslim.

MZAZ: No, you prove he is not a muslim.

You: Come On, how can you honestly believe he is a Muslim when there is absolutely no evidence that he is.

MZAX: Because I do. Now you prove he is not a Muslim.

yeah, that is a good debate.....


Not fooled so easily 3 years ago

Obama sits comfortably with Socialist ideology and he has demonstrated affinity and sympathy for Islamic political agendas and he displays his disdain and disregard for the Constitution and the spirit of the law represented therein and undercuts the provisions of the governmental branch balance of powers on a weekly basis. It is now 2013 - five years in to deconstruction of the USA, and 'I told you' so just is too painful to say...


stillsurfin 3 years ago

fooled easily,

Fortunately we all know Jesus sits comfortably with a Socialist ideology and that Obama communes daily with Jesus.

Obama is under "direct" orders from both Jesus and God to do everything he does.

It was God's will he was re-elected.


Not fooled so easily 3 years ago

The danger of a democratic republic is that when the people become foolish, they invite thieves into their living rooms. Only when the people are discerning will vigilance offer any good to prosperity. The People will always choose the reflection of their hearts - whether they be corrupt or upright will lead to bondage or freedom. Right now, the balance is tipped away from freedom. Benjamin Franklin made inference of this in his famous remark, "A Republic, if you can keep it."


stillsurfin 3 years ago

Fooled easily,

your comment: "when the people become foolish, they invite thieves into their living rooms".....

You ARE talking about FoxNews, right?


jman00001 profile image

jman00001 3 years ago from Texas

Guys, it might be worse than you realize.. US government is forcing companies to only hire W2 staff. If you try and stay as 1099 contractor you will be fired... We have no freedom to work independently any longer .. New policy for 2013


stillsurfin 3 years ago

jman,

That is interesting. Is there any proof of that?

It suspiciously looks like the hundreds of thousands of lies told by Obama-haters that the weak-minded Tea Party members greedily latch onto because they REALLY want to believe the worst possible things about our President.

I'm not saying that it IS a lie that you are trying to spread to incite further hatred - but, I it does look quite questionable.

Can you please provide the new US Government Policy Number that states all American Companies can only hire permanent W2 employees and American Companies can no longer hire independent contractors?

It would be VERY interesting to see evidence of that.

And, in the future it would be really most helpful when you post to include any "facts" to support sensational negative claims like Americans "have no freedom to work independently any longer".

Because IF it is false (like the hundreds of thousands of negative lies being repeated over and over again by the Tea Party) it is really hard for rational independent minded individuals to believe it without some proof.


jman00001 profile image

jman00001 3 years ago from Texas

Stillsurfin,

I wish I were just saying all this to stir the pot for some silly political point… I posted a quick hub on my experiences with it yesterday soon after an interview resulted in a rescinded job offer due to my unwillingness to go W2.

A large ~ 10,000+ person placement company name (Swift International), their web site link and even a direct line phone number is noted in the hub. While they are one of the small cogs in the wheel, they literally advertise and will interactively share elements of proof. Falsely advertised contract positions that are really W2 only hire spots… A simple call to the company agent(s) itself is ALL it will for ANYONE to check…

- They will admit only that you MUST be hired by them as a W2 employee for all advertized USA based position regardless of how it is listed.

- They will also admit this W2 only hiring was a very recent and major change. They may admit to laying off or firing existing 1099 staff that refused to convert to W2.

PROOF 1: just call Swift (713.328.4588) and pretend you’re interested in a job.. say you have ~ 15 years offshore engineering experience and ask if they can submit you for one of their contract positions but work you as a 1099 contractor.. then see / hear their agents response…

Two of the other larger firms I have been working contract with during past 10 years DID have management that privately admitted to the special IRS meetings over the past few years. In an effort to help keep me on they admitted to the IRS push and effective blackmail of their company.. Blackmail such as …They comply or else IRS audits get worse. If they don’t comply then more employment related lawsuits will “occur” and court findings will be against them.. Keep in mind these large oil & gas executive types also deal with government negotiations in places like west Africa ( ie: Equatorial Guinea and it rotating dictators) so the IRS type meeting were almost mild compared to the threats shared by foreign government leaders and experiences.

The domestic “W2 slave labor” convert policy is real. This terror is still in earlier stages of dissemination. Only the larger companies in select industries seem have rolled over so far. The hub shares more detail if honestly interested. This appears to be a bipartisan attack against personal freedom and liberty of USA citizens. ( If this were just Obama’s administration, then McCain or Romney could have used this in their half baked campaign..or the Fox News and Tea Party folks would try and use it ...)


stillsurfin 3 years ago

jman,

Ahhh..... NOW I understand what you're talking about !

Thank you for taking the time to elaborate about your specific situation !!

You are talking about International Employement Placement Companies moving to only deal with "permanent" employees instead of "temporary" employees.

The Company you are referring to places employees around the World, not just in the US.

And, that specific company is probably reacting to "International" pressure to changes Worker's Rights Laws from the UK, Germany, France and other Foreign Countries.

And an example, on October 1 2013 a new UK (not USA) law took effect.

The UK Agency Worker Regulations now requires temporary workers to be legally entitled to the same pay and conditions as permanent staff if employed for longer than 12 weeks. Temporary workers will now be entitled to the same commission, overtime and premium payments as well has health care and other benefits.

This has caused British Companies to move to hire only Permanent employees because the now will not get the financial benefit of Temporary workers because they will now be "required" to compensate Temporary employees just as much as Permanent employees.

What International Placement Companies (like Swift International) are most likely finding is that for procedural consistency it is easier for them to maintain employment standards by only handling permanent employees now, if they are in the business of placing employees "Internationally"

But, in America.......

And, there is no "law" against temporary workers - they are still allowed under the US Department of Labor:

http://www.dol.gov/oasam/doljobs/tempemployees.htm

And, I am not of any "new" US law that has occured similiar to the UK law requiring how temporary workers are treated.

If you know of one, please let me know.

As far as I know....

American Companies are still free to hire Temporary workers where it makes sense for them to do so.

And, there are a lot of reasons why temporary workers still make sense - usually because they can pay them much less than permanent employees (when the entire compensation package is considered) - AND can terminate them without any notice when their services are no longer needed.

And, in America temporary workers are also commonly used for "cyclical" Industries (like Aerospace and Agriculture) where a core of permanent employees are maintained - and the temporary workers are used as "peak cycle" workers, who can be the first to be terminated when the down cycle starts.

Which I happen to know first hand about one very LARGE American Aerospace Company that uses that employment strategy often.


J Skinner profile image

J Skinner 3 years ago

Actually, what the jman person says is true and affected me about 1 year ago. I work as a 1099 project manager/ engineer through an agent in Houston for a large oil operating company. I was forced to change agents 1 year ago. I and about 50 other engineers were put under huge pressure to go from 1099 W2 at the time. A temporary accommodation was made for the 12 that did not either quit or switch to W2. We are on another 1 year 1099 extension but will have to take the full time W2 role or quit and go work for a smaller operator like Noble Energy if we wish to continue as a 1099er..

I'm not experienced with overseas work in the UK, but have many friends that are expats. I am not aware of any move against their true contract roles.

Hmm, I also can not find the jman hub regarding W2 employment anywhere on here?


stillsurfin 3 years ago

I wonder if this situation is more common with oil companies.

It doesn't seem to be happening in Aerospace or Agriculture, both industries routinely use temporary workers.

Also, your friends that work for UK companies may start to see their employment options change with new UK Agency Worker Regulation on temporary workers that took affect on 26 days ago.

From what I hear that UK regulation regarding equal compensation after 12 weeks is a serious consideration for how they are hiring.

.... I coudn't find the referenced hub either ....


jman00001 profile image

jman00001 3 years ago from Texas

Guys, sorry about the hub post delay. Hub named " America's Right to Work Freely is Ending!" should be up now..

To answer your well placed questions, I am only aware of the covert policy change with firms like IBM , Microsoft and the big oil companies. Since the big placement agents and HR groups can be contacted directly for verification it is indeed easy to verify.. As they are successful in this effort it will clearly spread to other industries.

Real question is whether enough Americans are left to care or take action..


stillsurfin 3 years ago

jman,

Thanks for the info.

From your profile, you seem like a bright capable woman.

But,-no offense - I have problems agreeing with you on this topic.

I always try to use facts and data - not suspicions, theories, guesses, fears, innuendo, he-said, she-said, or somebody's personal belief - to come to an opinion.

I haven't seen anything that indicates that the US Government has a secret "agenda" to stop Americans from being free to work independently... no laws, policy, or overt actions to substantiate such a claim.

And the idea that the US Government covertly doing this is immediately suspicious to me.

Mainly because the US Government isn't clever, cohesive, or capable enough to do it covertly in the first place. The US Government itself is too disoriented, disconnected, and contentious to carry out some secret agenda like that.

Second, because I know from personal experience that there are many Companies that are using Temporary Employees to meet their business objectives.

Now, I'm NOT saying that you and J Skinner didn't experience a Company that had it's own business strategy to reduce or eliminate temporary workers - but, I believe they were doing that for their own financial and business reasons, not because the "US Government was out to get them" if they didn't.

Also, I do not know the motives of those individuals who told you that. For all I know they could be Tea Party nuts who think the Government is always "out to get them".

Or, maybe there is something specific within the Big Oil Community that makes them lean towards permanent employees over temporary employees - that is something I know nothing about.

As far as the Companies you mentioned, I also do not know about some "covert policy" change for temporary workers for IBM.......

But, I can tell you that is not the case for Microsoft.

I have a home in Hawaii and a home in Seattle and have a lot of friends (including my brother-in-law) who works for Microsoft in various organizations, including HR.

When I talked with my brother-in-law a few minutes ago about this subject, he just laughed. He has a number of consultants working on Projects that he leads - and by Microsoft company policy is encouraged to evaluate temporary workers when needed for surge capability. They are used for a wide variety of assignments.... Including even software coding when it's needed.


stillsurfin 3 years ago

Hey vveasey,

how come certain recent comments were posted and then removed?

I'd like to know why to prevent further issues......


vveasey profile image

vveasey 3 years ago from Detroit,MI Author

What comments are you referring to?


stillsurfin 3 years ago

well that's strange.... now the one just above my question about posted and removed from me has shown up again.

but, the one from J Skinner (mentioning that he also had an issue with being a temp employee) had been posted right after my 1st response to jman00001 but has been removed .... and, it still doesn't show up.

Could he have removed his own post?


vveasey profile image

vveasey 3 years ago from Detroit,MI Author

I think what happens is that you can see the post before I log in to approve them. But when I log in they disappear until I approve them, then they appear again. I think before I approve them you're seeing a preview.

I wondered why when I click the links in emails notifying me of post on a hub I see posters responding to one another before I approved their posts. So that's the only explanation that seems to explain the issue


jman00001 profile image

jman00001 3 years ago from Texas

Gentlemen, The comments shared regarding a government purge of non W-2 emplyees are not opinions. They are backed up facts. I shared a phone number from Swift International that can simply be called to verify that they only offer W-2 roles even when calling them contract positions.

Most working staff do not even understand the difference between a 1099 consultant and a 3rd party consultant brought into say Microsoft that is actually a W-2 employee for the 3rd party consulting firm. There is a huge difference in tax liability and freedom to work.

Easiest way to check is to simply ask your friend - do the "consultants" he knows purchase their own medical insurance and pay around $1,000 per month for it? DO they have their own corporate bank account and tax return separate from their personal from which they pay themselves a salary?

Work arounds still exist for some including me but the illegal pressure to switch to W-2 or leave is outragious.


jman00001 profile image

jman00001 3 years ago from Texas

I just checked again. For some reason my hub on the freedom to work is not getting published? Apparently the Topic is too inflamitory and not aloud to accuse companies of such things and list phone numbers?...

Talk about conspiracy! Maybe we should drop the subject - far too much dangerous truth for most including hubpages to handle.


vveasey profile image

vveasey 3 years ago from Detroit,MI Author

Yeah hubpages disabled ads on one of my hubs because they say the advertisers are sensitive about certain types of content. I thinks it's the hubpages owners rather than the advertisers.


stillsurfin 3 years ago

jman,

It got published originally and I posted a comment to it. But, when I went back to it later .... it wasn't there.


J Skinner profile image

J Skinner 3 years ago

In regard to the contract working discussion with a hubpage, I have been working as a "true" 1099 contractor via an agent firm , or in my case 2 firms or middlemen, that are between me and my true client. This odd and expensive set of middlemen was a requirement my client introduced two years after I had been working with them. I also understood from that management that this "distancing of 1099 contractors" requirement was based on IRS pressure. Maintaining this business model is increasingly difficult and most new opportunities now require some from of W-2 employment.

It does not look like their is anything we can do about it. Very few understand the issue, or contracting for that matter and fewer still that want to risk angering the IRS or loose their job.

For most high income contractors I suspect, it may be more practical to drop the subject and just switch to W-2 , or switch citizenship to another country like Panama, Costa Rica or Cypress when the pressure or work opportunity loss becomes too great in America..


stillsurfin 3 years ago

J Skinner,

Just curious...... why do you care?

Do you avoid income taxes, FICA, or social security fees if you are a 1099 contractor?

Do individuals make more in total compensation (salary, health insurance, 401K plans, etc) if they are hired as a 1099 or a W2 through an employment agency?


J Skinner profile image

J Skinner 3 years ago

I have a preference to work as independent contractor for 2 reasons.

One is you can get organized as small company and legally pay less in total tax as a 1099 worker. Even with added fees and overhead cost the savings is usually better. Yes, overall you can make more than 20% extra as a 1099 consultant without any inappropriate tax related activity.

However the second reason is to be able to work for more than one client. I work for oil companies as well as occasionally as a Dept Of Interior BSEE or DOT government consultant. I would not be allowed to bid on government regulatory studies work as a W-2 staff worker due to conflict of interest and because of government bid restrictions.

For me, losing by right to do regulatory consulting on the side because of IRS preferences or whatever should be an illegal restraint of trade.


stillsurfin 3 years ago

Interesting.

I still find it hard to beleive that there is a secret agenda by the IRS if they are still collecting appropriate taxes in either case?

If they had the power to manipulate and intentionally change the system to get additional currently illegal taxes collected, they would go after guys like Romney who doesn't even come close to paying his "fair share" in tax - compared to ANY W2 or 1099 worker.

Some covert conspiracy to chase down and eliminate the 1099 category of workers seems like peanuts in the big scheme of things......


J Skinner profile image

J Skinner 3 years ago

It is surprising but I assure you it is true. At least for myself and other engineers in the oil & gas industry that work as contractors for larger oil companies.

This American government is run by the rich and connected regardless of political party membership. They will not run themselves out of a good deal. Far better for them to “restrict choice” of those without power to cause them trouble. Besides, I suspect the real money is getting tens of thousands of extra dollars off each of the millions of 1099 contractors by converting them to W-2’s. This is probably more lucrative and easier than trying to get extra millions off of the few hundred of rich & powerful.

Keeping a working class "controlled and productive " is important for most governments. I wager we have 401k and IRA annual contribution limitations to “ restrict productive citizens retirement planning”. If you could save over 100k each year tax deferred then you could more easily retire at an early age. However it would reduce the future tax paying workforce.

Being able to save far more tax deferred money than the standard 401k limit each year is another ability of an 1099 contractor that W-2 workers do not have. Perhaps that pension difference is another reason for this IRS move. I am still amazed that this 1099 independent contractor restraint of trade is happening under the media radar.


AlexDrinkH2O profile image

AlexDrinkH2O 3 years ago from Southern New England, USA

I do not hate Obama personally but I utterly despise his politics and his method of governance. There is so much criticism of him simply because he is by far the worst president in American history. My fellow conservatives (Republicans, independents, Tea Partiers, etc.) and I strongly support people like Allen West, Herman Cain, Condolezza Rice, Walter Williams, and Tom Sowell so we cannot be labeled as racist, can we? The damage this administration is doing to this country is incalculable - I can only hope the GOP can take over the Senate and increase the majority in the House, thereby marginalizing Obama. If not, God help us.


stillsurfin 3 years ago

Alex,

Specifically, what makes him the worst president in history?

And/or - what specifically about his politics and method of governance do you utterly despise?

I'm looking for "facts" .... Not platitudes, opinions, or innuendo.....

As far as your question "so we cannot be labeled as racist, can we?"

The answer is certainly .... YES .... A person strongly supporting the cast of characters you mentioned can still be a racist.

I'll give you 2 examples why.

1. My mother, who is 93 years old.

She is definitely a racist.

She grew up in North Dakota and never saw a "non-White" person until she was in her early 20s.

She is not only racist against Blacks - but also the Asian race - Japanese, Chinese, and anybody who visually is what she considers a "ferener" - which she means is somebody who is not a White person of European decent (of course, when I mention that even her parents were at one point foreigners, but that doesn't ever matter).

Many times, I've heard her claim that she can't be a racist because years ago she worked with a Black woman and liked her. But, when you hear her talk about the Black race, it is an entirely different perspective.

2. Southern Slave Owners.

You can be assured that slave owners "strongly supported" the Blacks that did what they were told, didn't make trouble, and "agreed" 100% with their Owners perspective and opinions (in public).

I see people like Adam West as in the same light as a Southern Slave - he will say exactly what he needs to say to get the current Conservative Racists to "support" him - especially by constantly degrading President Obama at every opportunity, regardless if he is saying a lie about the President or not.

Now, I'm NOT saying that you are a Slave Owner or a Racist, I don't know you at all .... I'm just saying that your question can easily be answered "yes".

A person can be a Racist and still "strongly support" a Black person who does their bidding.


vveasey profile image

vveasey 3 years ago from Detroit,MI Author

stillsurfin

amen brother!

(assuming you are a male)


stillsurfin 3 years ago

Yeah, I'm an "OLD white guy".

Vietnam War Veteran, registered Republican, and currently splitting my time living in Seattle and Hawaii - surfing as much as I can in both locations with crappy knees.......

You should have seen my mom's outrage when I dated a black girl in high school !!!


vveasey profile image

vveasey 3 years ago from Detroit,MI Author

Yeah I can imagine!

When me and my "white" wife first met, her mother and father had all kinds of problems with it. But we're all cool now.

Her father used to always talk about when he went to school how he had these black friends and how they never had any racial problems.

So finally after getting tired of months of hearing this and his other "black" stories I said" if that's true. Why did you have a problem with me and your daughter being together?"

He was stumped!

It took him awhile of much puzzlement and brain racking before he finally said with a look of resignation " Well. I don't remember anyone telling me this, but I guess I always knew it was alright to have "them" as friends but not to marry them".

I think this is how a lot of racist attitudes start, no matter what the color, race (I don't believe in race) culture etc, etc, gets instilled in kids and they grow up like humanoid robots acting out their unconscious childhood programming without being aware of it.


True 3 years ago

Interesting change of comment topic. It appeared that story regarding IRS forcing out 1099 contract workers and replacing them with more taxable and controllable W-2 workers was proven as happening in the oil industry. Even a company’s phone number was shared to get direct evidence of their change and their ~false advertising of contract jobs… All this under the Obama administration.

Then AlexDrinkH20, a government worker comes out with low level, old school racial comments and everyone moves on to pretending most of white America is anti black racist?.. Ridiculous and obvious move to change the subject. and a patently false claim as most know that many whites voted for Obama out of racist guilt and fear of not being PC at work because he was black. Everyone is public schools is scared to death to offend a black or Hispanic out of fear of being labeled racist. Same anti white race fear situation at most professional places of work. All these are real and current conditions in America..

Anyway, the newer issue is the IRS under the Obama has declared war on all Americans right to chose! He and the new government want to make all choices for you... This claim with respect to working as 1099/ W-2 as an engineering in the oil industry appears to have been PROVEN in 2013. You people can’t handle and are afraid to deal with that truth! This same no choice problem exists for health insurance and the initial failure of the $200 million dollar Obamacare care broken web site at least is all over the news. I understand that all workers under 45 years of age and their employers will pay Big time higher prices for healthcare with Obamacare .. Too bad that we can’t double or triple that cost for all those young workers that voted for Obama- that would be a sweet slice of justice :)


AlexDrinkH2O profile image

AlexDrinkH2O 3 years ago from Southern New England, USA

"Then AlexDrinkH20, a government worker comes out with low level, old school racial comments " WTF? What the hell does that mean? People on the left are saying if you criticize Obama you're a racist! I am saying I would strongly support someone like Allen West for president and he is black. Now, does calling me a racist (blatant, unconscious or otherwise) make any sense? Apparently criticizing LEFT-WING black people is racist, but criticizing conservative black people is not. @stillsurfin - I utterly reject your arguments and I don't have enough time or space to document the terrible performance of this president. I'll just say he's a documented liar, his handling of the economy is abysmal and his foreign policy is even worse. This guy makes me nostalgic for Nixon. When liberals run out of arguments, they resort to name calling, and that's what's happening here.


stillsurfin 3 years ago

Alex,

I really don't like being critical of your post - but your last one is sad, ironic, hypocritical, and uneducated.

Sad - Because you don't even recognize a racist statement when you make one.

Ironic and Hypocritical - Because of your statement "When liberals run out of arguments, they resort to name calling, and that's what's happening here".

You have provided NO facts or rationale to support your berating and name calling of the President ----- but, yet chastise and berate some imaginary "liberal" for name calling when they run out of an arguement.

Does your statement "worst president in American history" and "documented liar" ring a bell?

You've been name calling BEFORE even starting to "walk" an argument, let alone "run with" one ...... or "run out" of one.

Uneducated - Because it doesn't appear you know what the word "abysmal" even means.

Your statement "his handling of the economy is abysmal"....

Are you talking about these "abysmal" economic indicators:

Unemployment - down:

http://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS14000000

Stock Market - up

Dow Jones average 6,500 when he took office to over 15,000 today....

http://stockcharts.com/freecharts/historical/djia2...

http://lbo-news.com/2012/04/23/obamas-stock-market...

Federal budget Deficit - down

http://www.forbes.com/sites/rickungar/2013/02/27/t...

Increases to National Debt - down

http://www.snopes.com/politics/politicians/nationa...

Oh yeah..... I'll take that "abysmal" handling of the economy a thousand times over Bush's handling of the economy !!!!


stillsurfin 3 years ago

Alex,

Actually, I apologize....now that I've thought about it a bit.

I don't think you made a "low level, old school racial comment".

I think you made an unenlightened and self-serving statement/question that somebody supporting a black person who regurgitates fox news propaganda - is somehow "proof" that they aren't racist.

That is "zero" proof that somebody isn't racist - and if you can't understand why it is isn't, I do feel sorry for you.


jman00001 profile image

jman00001 3 years ago from Texas

Entertaining and pointless back and forth dialog. Who cares about discussing individual racism? We as a majority of the population got past most of that many years ago. Only the government and special interest groups use that topic to force their agenda and maintain their power.. The few legacy issues relate to a small % of people.

I liked the Obama win statement of his increases to the national debt being a bit less than before. Obama did promise to lower that debt many times – his promise was not to decrease its acceleration a bit while forcing its increase. Trying to Stop that large increase was part of the push back by stupid republicans that caused the pathetic government shut down earlier.

The stock market increases? So the wall street fat cats are now in Obama's back pocket?..Yes, I agree with ssurfin- they are and Obama should get some credit. Plus credit for the ridiculous 0% internal interest rate that Obama forced which also necessitated changing the Fed chairman earlier than ever before... Illegally juicing the economy is something he is good at and when this economy really crashes I suspect another will take the blame.

However, I mainly like Both ssurfin and Alex Avoiding the tougher topics shared by others above. Ducked them twice now. Now that is interesting watching these liberal and simple drama spokesmen squirm.. lol..


AlexDrinkH2O profile image

AlexDrinkH2O 3 years ago from Southern New England, USA

@stillsurfin - I oppose Obama because I believe he is a lousy president, NOT because he is black. When the hell are you people on the left going to get that?

"I think you made an unenlightened and self-serving statement/question that somebody supporting a black person who regurgitates fox news propaganda - is somehow "proof" that they aren't racist." That statement is so stupid on its face, words fail me. I said that I would support a black person for ANY office if I agreed with his politics, the skin color does not matter. Do you understand that? For the record, the DJIA on 23 Jan 2009 was 8,077.56. Our national debt was about 10 trillion dollars - now it's over 17 trillion. You cleverly mask this with the phrase "increases to the national debt - down." And the TRUE unemployment is closer to 15% when you factor in the people who have stopped looking for jobs. And here's another one for you: "When Obama took office, the unemployment rate for blacks was 12.7 percent, according to Politic365.com. In December, it was 14 percent. The national unemployment rate is 8 percent." Source? NAACP.


AlexDrinkH2O profile image

AlexDrinkH2O 3 years ago from Southern New England, USA

@stillsurfin- I refer you to this article on Obama's performance written by Richard Cohen, an Obama supporter and a liberal columnist: http://www.adn.com/2013/10/28/3147070/richard-cohe...


stillsurfin 3 years ago

Alex,

You are missing the point entirely !

I NEVER said YOU were a racist.

I said.....The answer to your question "so we cannot be labeled as racist, can we?"

Is ..... YES ...

Just because somebody supports a black man who says EXACTLY what they want to hear is NO PROOF that that person isn't still a racist against the black race in general.

It ONLY proves that that specific black man's views are in line with their own views.

The 2 concepts are mutually exclusive.

As far as managing the economy......

Is it SO hard for you to acknowledge that the Obama Administration has been pretty darn good managing the economy and something called FACTS prove it.

No, the economy is NOT GREAT, but it certainly is NOT "abysmal".

And, is it SO hard to acknowledge that the FACT is that recent Republican Administration "conservative" policies have increased the national debt far faster than recent Democrat Administration policies have.

Now, I believe NEITHER is good !

But, to ignore what republican policies do and only believe that democrat policies are responsible for the national debt is completely irrational.....

Now, if you want to talk about "cleverly masking".....I've only stated FACTS in my argument....not wishful thinking to support my opinion - only FACTS.

The idea that one can dismiss the FACT that the national employment rate has gone down by factoring in some imaginary percentage of the population that have had jobs, go on unemployment, and then quick looking for a job - is nothing but foxnews propaganda.

What foxnews "cleverly masks" when they give that ammunition to their flock - is that there has ALWAYS been some percentage of the population that has done that !! And, to believe that it is "unique" to just the time Obama has been in office is "illogical" and just NOT a FACT.

Not only that, but when that argument is used it is NEVER supported with ANY FACTS.... It is always subjective based on whatever whim is in the person's mind.

If I'm wrong please provide ANY FACT as to the number of those who have quick looking for a job to create the supposedly TRUE rate of 15%.

And, if by some miracle you can find any FACTS like that - Please go back an apply those numbers to the last 20 years or so of historical unemployment data - THEN we could have a rational discussion about the effect of Democrat and Republican economic policies as they relate to unemployment (while including those that have quit looking for a job).

Look, I'm not a current Democrat or current Republican. I used to be a Republican when they had rational, logical planks in their platform. I do believe in fiscal conservatism and social freedom.

But, what I find disturbing is that the current Republican Party has become too radical and illogical, it is inundated with the destructive policies to destroy personal freedom

And, 99% of the time have followers that can never have any discussion without ignoring facts and always seem to irrationally rage against the current President with nothing but misrepresentations of the truth.

Hopefully YOU aren't one of those individuals....

But, I hate to say it but your claim that Obama has been "abysmal" managing the economy is a perfect example of the erroneous hyperbole that is used.

And, it isn't even close to truth.......

Just because somebody supports a black man who says EXACTLY what they want to hear is NO PROOF that that person isn't still a racist.

It ONLY proves that that specific black man's views are in line with their own views.

The 2 concepts are mutually exclusive.

The other point that you are missing is Obama has been pretty darn good managing the economy and something called "FACTS" prove it.

Regardless of your

Can you provide any facts that the "TRUE unemployement rate is closer to 15%"?


stillsurfin 3 years ago

Alex,

thanks for the article, I'll read it when I get back in town.

Heading of to Father's Weekend at OSU (Oregon State) to be with my niece !!

GO Beavers !!!


stillsurfin 3 years ago

Alex,

Oops.... I did a crappy job with "cut and paste" - please ignore the last part of the post after:

And, it isn't even close to truth.......


stillsurfin 3 years ago

Alex,

I have a few minutes before my brother is showing up so I took a look at the article.

1. First, let me say that the Obamacare website is no doubt a problem, but I don't believe the website is in any way related to the good or bad of Obamacare itself.

That would be like "judging a book by it's cover" - if you remember that old sage saying.....which common sense says you DO NOT do !!

But, I also happen to believe that Obamacare is NOT perfect, however this country needs Health Care Reform and a certain party (who are under the financial control of the insurance companies) have been fighting reform for many years. The Insurance Companies did not want reform because the system allowed them to make a lot of money (a good portion to pay off politicians) to keep the status quo.

Obamacare is only a "start" and the fundamentals (founded by Conservatives) are sound. But, it definitely needs to be tweaked to fix minor issues.

2. Syria is another matter, it is an extremely tough situation and to think that it can be solved easily is foolish. There are too many conflicting issues and a "strategy" for that area of the world is not one that can be put i concrete. It is a fluid situation that requires flexibility and adjustment. So, I look more at the "outcome" of where we are today..... and, so far (while not perfect) the outcome is better than it could have been if we had bombed, invaded, or provided to Al Qaeda Insurgents.

I'd suggest you put away your "I hate Obama glasses" and look at it realistically. The Middle East region is so Fcked up and there is no "easy" fix or single unchanging strategy regardless of who is the American President.

3. Now as far as Richard Cohen....... c'mon on !!!!

I did a little research, and read some of his other articles.

I found his writings childish, overdone and most often nothing but bantering and raving, with little insight or credibility

The guy is universally considered a hack, at best.

http://www.salon.com/2010/11/24/hack_list_1/

He is an "old liberal" who has become "conservative" and to portray him as an Obama "Supporter" doesn't appear to be a "fact" in any way.

Where did you get this idea he is an Obama supporter? Is it because he slammed Palin in one of his articles?

Regardless, I'd put his writings WAY down on the list of credible writers and would never point to that guy as guiding light of intellectual thought......

4. Look, Obama is not perfect, but he is not the incompetent socialist demon from Kenya that the Far Right make him out to be. Every American President has been a human with good points and bad points, has made some good decisions and bad decision.

The fact that individuals ONLY see bad in Obama is proof that they are not open-minded to look at facts and truth..... and, in my humble opinion their beliefs are suspect.

Gotta go, my brother is supposed to be here in 7 minutes !!!!


lonely 3 years ago

I hate everyone


stillsurfin 3 years ago

lonely,

I feel bad for all those who hate.

Hate is an awful thing to have in one's heart and leads to nothing but misery.

I feel sorry for you - you must have an awful life.


yoyoma 3 years ago

Hows that idiot working out for you now? If you have a full time job, pay your taxes, pay for your insurance and don't get government handouts, your probably struggling, as most of the worth while Americans.


stillsurfin 3 years ago

yoyoma,

The President is working out just fine.

I'm not struggling in the slightest.

And, all of the people I know personally are not struggling either .....

You must have some personal problems and issues holding you back from being successful.

However, if you are struggling financially, I'd suggest you become a Tea Party Politician !

Tea Party Politicians (like Religious Preachers) find it quite profitable to "fleece the flock" of those poor souls who are willing to be led by the nose, told what to think, how to act, what to do, who to criticize, who to lie about .....oh - and most importantly - who to Hate !!


AlexDrinkH2O profile image

AlexDrinkH2O 3 years ago from Southern New England, USA

The answer to your question in just one minute:

http://www.ijreview.com/2013/06/56922-gop-reps-epi...


stillsurfin 3 years ago

Alex,

Yep, nothing like a partisan biased politician regurgitating one-liners, finger pointing and spewing half truths that were made up at by foxnews propaganda machine, eh?

Each of those jabs has more background associated with them that if you honestly looked at it with an "open mind" - you'd see the real truth.

For an example, let's just take the FIRST one - that a man getting killed due to "Fast and Furious" was President Obama's fault.

This is a classic example of Tea Party nuts using a form of "withholding information and facts", telling partial truths, and never the whole story to "get" Obama" - of course, the Obama Haters would NEVER actually look at the whole story when that "one-liner" supports their hatred for Obama.

I'd certainly wager that Jim Bridenstine doesn't have the slightest clue what is behind that jab and like most Obama-haters wouldn't even take 10 minutes to find out. Because for those guys it is the "jab" that is important, not the "truth".

But, if you are serious and do have an "open-mind" and want to know the truth about it - read on......

In 2006 (when Bush was in office), Project Gunrunner was created by the Arizona Field Office of the US Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms & Explosives (ATF). Fast and Furious was just ONE OF MANY Operations under Project Gunrunner.

The whole idea has a basis in "good" - the good intent was to figure out a way to find and eliminate the Mexican Drug Cartels.

The first Operation under Project Gunrunner was "Operation Wide Receiver" which started in February 2006 (remember now..... Bush was president).

With Operation Wide Receiver, the Arizona Field Office used a "tactic" to purposely allow firearms dealers to sell weapons to illegal low level buyers with the intent to track the guns to the Mexican drug cartel leaders (the idea here is to try to catch the big fish by following the little fish).

However, in 2009 when the DOJ got involved in reviewing Operation Wide Receiver, they found it was unsuccessful and no arrests were made.

The DOJ also found out that involving the "low-level buyers" resulted in some guns falling into the hands of gun traffickers. Of the 474 guns that were sold under Operation Wide Receiver only 64 were recovered..... the rest just "walked away". (or as commonly referred to as "Gun-walking")

Don't you find it funny that the Tea Party NEVER mentions the background and whole idea of Project Gunrunner that resulted in "Gun-walking" was started when Bush was President ?

Now, I DO NOT blame Bush as Tea Nuts are blaming Obama. The President can't be involved in every single action that takes place.

This was and continued to be the brainchild of the the Arizona Field Office of the ATF.......

Now on to Fast and Furious.....

In October 2009 a "new" strategy was enacted by the ATF, DEA, the Dept. Attorney General, and the top federal prosecutors in the SW border states.

Still under the umbrella of Project Gunrunner, the "new" strategy was NOT to use the tactic used by Operation Wide Receiver (using low level gun buyers) but instead going to use gun sales targeted at mid level trafficers (which supposedly would be easier to track) to eliminate entire arms trafficking networks and Fast and Furious was born.

Unfortunately, a guy named Bill Newell (special agent in charge of the Arizona Field Office) decided that the tactic in Operation Wide Receiver still looked good to him and the Arizona Field Office employed the same "tactic" as Operation wide Receiver .

The result of using "low-level buyers" was the same because they were too hard to track ..... More guns "walking away" - one of which was used to shoot and kill U.S. Border Patrol agent Brian Terry.

When Brian Terry was killed, the Republicans and Foxnews jumped !!!

Conveniently ignoring that Fast and Furious was just another Operation under Project Gunrunner, started when Bush was in office.

But instead put the death of Terry at the hands of Obama as though the whole thing was his idea.

SOOOO..... Bottom line...... Bridenstine is throwing stones at Obama when the Repbulicans are actually living in a glass house.

Yes, I'll agree that each and every one of those "stones" are are great "sound bites" for the Haters to regurgitate, but they are in a sense untruthful - because they don't tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

Unfortunately, the Tea Party faithful and Obama Haters will NEVER know the whole truth.....

- because they DO NOT want to know the whole truth !

They only want to Hate..... sadly.


AlexDrinkH2O profile image

AlexDrinkH2O 3 years ago from Southern New England, USA

Everything is about the Tea Party to you, isn't it? You know what the Tea Party is? TEA stands for Taxed Enough Already. They are merely a grass-roots response to the excesses of the Obama administration (especially Obamacare) - I have been to Tea Party rallies and all I heard was calls for limited government, lower taxes, and a healthy respect for the Constitution. Radical stuff, eh? And they don't HATE Obama - like me, they strongly disagree with his policies. (Anybody who disagrees with a liberal is a "hater," right? I wrote a hub about this as a matter of fact.) Oh, yes the "Tea Partiers" did mention that the "Gunrunner" operations started before Obama took office but nobody got killed then. The guy is a lousy president, face it.


stillsurfin 3 years ago

Alex,

I believe we should have lower taxes, "wiser" government, and a healthy respect for the constitution.

I am not a liberal - I'm a fiscal conservative "old-school" Republican.

And, I don't believe that "anybody" who disagrees with a liberal is a "hater".

I have plenty of "rational & logical" Conservative friends who disagree with liberals and they are not "haters" - myself included.

HOWEVER, so far every Tea Party person I've had the pleasure to talk with - I would categorize as a "Hater".

A Hater would believe Obama isn't an American with no proof.

A Hater would believe Obama is a Socialist with no proof.

A Hater would believe Obama is a Muslim with no proof.

etc.... etc....etc....

These are all the things that I hear TeaNuts say over and over again.

A "Hater" is also someone who hypocritically blames Obama for things done while he is President that they would not blame (or completely ignore) any past Republican President who had the same thing done when they were President.

A classic example of being a "hater" is even embodied in your logic about Project Gunrunner operations.

You apparently think there is NO problem for 410 guns to "walk-away" into the hands of criminals and drug runners during the time Bush was President ..... Just because you don't know of any American being killed with any one of those 410 guns.

Yet, somehow you can find some "rationale" to justify that just because one of the guns that "walked-away" during the time Obama was President was used to kill somebody....NOW all of a sudden - guns walking away is a BIG problem - and Obama is to blame.

Let me ask you a question, so I can understand your "logic".

If it had turned out that Brian Terry was killed with was one of the 410 guns that walked-away (during Bush's term), would you consider that was ALL Bush's fault?

Or, would somehow it still be Obama's fault because it happened during Obama's term?

Another classic example of Haters Hypocrisy is Benghazi.

If you can, please explain why you think the TeaNuts are not all "haters" with all the uproar by the Tea Party blaming Obama for the death of 4 people in ONE attack during his Presidency (Benghazi) ...

............... When 98 individuals were killed in THIRTEEN separate Embassy attacks during Bush's Presidency and Bush is somehow "innocent" of all blame?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bob-cesca/13-benghaz...

None of the 13 Embassy attacks created ANY uproar from the Republicans, NO uproar from Fox News, Nothing...nada....all quiet on the western front.

Oh, yeah...that's because Fox News is "fair and balanced"...right?

See, this is why the vast majority of Americans think the Tea Party members are "Haters" and they are completely TeaNUTS.


AlexDrinkH2O profile image

AlexDrinkH2O 3 years ago from Southern New England, USA

@stillsurfin: Nothing I have said is getting through to you, is it? Five years into Obama's administration and you and your ilk are still blaming George Bush. Those 13 attacks you referred to were not CAUSED by anything the Bush administration did, whereas the Benghazi attack was a direct result of a bungled Mideast policy AND the further mishandling of the situation by the administration plus the subsequent cover-up. Go ahead, have the last word because I'm not wasting my time any more on this hub.


stillsurfin 3 years ago

Alex,

OK. here is the last word(s).

You said: "you and your ilk are still blaming George Bush."

I'm NOT blaming Bush !!!

I'm NOT blaming Bush !!!

I'm NOT blaming Bush !!!

I AM blaming the Tea Party for being hypocritical when they DID NOT blame Bush for the exact same things occurring when he was President !!!

And, I find it unbelievably hypocritical for anyone to even say something like: "Those 13 attacks you referred to were not CAUSED by anything the Bush administration did,"

Uhhhhh.......Ever hear of a little skirmish called the Iraq War?

I was just curious when I asked you WHY you thought Obama was a lousy President.

I was curious to find out if you had a rational and logical reason that we could discuss.

But, instead I find it is because of things like "fast and furious" which is the epitome of hypocrisy when one goes beyond the foxnews one-liner propaganda and look at the situation honestly.

But in the end, I agree with you ..... it does not appear we can discuss your reasons why you think Obama is a lousy President when we can't have an "honest" and "open-minded" discussion.

And, eventually I do think you'll understand that one of the biggest reasons that the Tea Party is SO DESPISED by the vast majority of Americans is the constant and relentless hypocrisy in their beliefs and actions.......


AlexDrinkH2O profile image

AlexDrinkH2O 3 years ago from Southern New England, USA


Tracy Allen 3 years ago

LOL! There are some serious conversations being held over here! I found this article because I was trying to find something ... I remember when Pres. Obama was just beginning and there were people that said that they would fight against ANYTHING he did! When this article was written, Mr. Obama hadn't "done" anything yet. People are just funny... in a very sad way. I'm tired of people telling us to "get over" the "race card" when they haven't gotten over it. It's like a violent domestic relationship... the husband punches the wife in the face... she suffers a broken jaw that aches in many ways for years ... if she has the audacity to say that her face is still hurting, he will tell her that she should be over it by now simply because he hates remembering the pain HE STARTED. The racist actions that White people started has us in the mindset we have to this very day and now that we are allowed to have a voice, they don't want to hear what we "really" have to say. Lol... Great article thought.


Donny2014 3 years ago

@ Tracy Allen

I agree with you totally and the example of someone who suffered at the hands of an abusive partner is a very good analogy. Although there may be times when what happens to someone has nothing to do with race, people need to realize that there are people who suffered at the hands of racists. Some were even born in the Jim Crow days when they couldn't use the restroom reserved for whites, had to ride in the back of buses and all that stuff. It's hard for those of us who are younger to comprehend that; but the fact still remains that they did suffer. It's not the type of thing you can get over that easy

now about the Affordable Care Act website not working. take a look at this

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/11/19/obamacare_...


stillsurfin 3 years ago

Now who in their right mind would EVER want to use a "Destroy Obama Care" software hacking tool - with the intent to screw up the website and make it difficult for hard working Americans to get affordable health care ????


Donny2014 3 years ago

@stillsurfin

Someone really blinded with hate and contempt for the first black president who's so hell-bent on blackmailing him that he or she has lost his or her power of reasoning. I doubt if they even think at all!

This whole thing is as baffling to me as it is to you; trust me


Jake War Eagle 2 years ago

The fact that the Tea Party barely existed before Obama took office,is proof enough,but more proof comes out every time one of them opens their mouth.. Daddy Cruz,for example, and their utter silence when that little creep raised a CONFEDERATE RAG at the White House,and insulted everyone who has ever worn a military uniform,by elevating that symbol of treason to the same level as the noble Marine Corps banner.


stillsurfin 2 years ago

Jake, I agree with you — it is disgusting to see that confederate rag idolized - since it is the symbol of racism, hatred, and inequality.

As far as the Tea Party, they may not have had the Tea Party "label"- but their negative mindset has been around for decades.

As I've mentioned earlier in this post......

There is one really GREAT thing about the Teabaggers and their kind !!

They are so brainwashed by foxnews and the far-right republican politicians relentless "negative" Propaganda that they honestly believe everything is "doom and gloom" and are so pessimistic about America and the World that they are excellent proverbial canaries in the economic mineshaft.

I personally have made a LOT of money listening and watching their actions regarding their financial decisions.

When they ran from the stock market betting against America, I went all in.

Now, sometime in the next 12-24 months, you're going to start hearing that they are so "pissed off" that so many other people are making money in the stock market that they want "in on the action", too - because they are getting "left behind".

That will be time to pull your money OUT of the market because that will be the end of the current Bull market.

Teabaggers and their kind are just out of sync with rational Humanity - and that is why they are such pissed off, pessimistic, negative, unhappy, "Doom and Gloomers"..... and, they always will be

- because that is the kind of people they are in their hearts and minds.

But, YOU can make a lot of money and be financially successful if you pay attention and watch what they do.

They will soon be putting what little extra money they have in the Stock Market and then will lose money (like always) during the next Bear Market.

Then the whole cycle will repeat over again when they lose enough and pull their money out - it will signal the start of another Bull market.

Warren Buffet and many others have made fortunes betting against the Teabagger "Mentality".

The ironic thing is that there are many very wealthy Far Right "Leaders" who instigate, lie to, and fire up the Teabaggers - but then do exactly the same thing that Warren Buffet does, MAKE MONEY OFF THEM !!!!

I actually feel sorry for the common Teabagger and their kind ..... for they know not what they do and have no idea how they are manipulated for the benefit of others.


GlendaGoodWitch profile image

GlendaGoodWitch 2 years ago from California

Hello! The Republican party was referred to as the Anti slavery party because it eas the Republicans who abolished slavery.. I personally went to one tea party and there was no confederate flag or any of the nonsense that MSNBC and the MSM has brainwashed you to believe. Because the liberal media does all it can to keep its penut gallery in the sand, there were about 3 weirdos saying off the wall things just outside of the actual tea party and they werequickly run off by tea party members, but guess what? TThe Media only played those freaks Iin effort to make the narrow minded and gullible believe that they are representive of the tea party. To truly knowwho tells the ttruth you must go and see for yourself with an opwn mind... listening to liberal lies and saying Fox is wrong without going out to see for yourself is just plain ignorant. .. I went to a tea party with a group of black and Mexican people, but we never made the CNN or MSNBC news for some odd reason...


stillsurfin 2 years ago

I just love how some people use "one-liners", half-truths, outright lies, and smoke and mirrors in order to try make a point.

Which is how the Tea Party folks and their kind talk to each other trying to convince themselves of nonsense and why they have the problems in life that they have.

I don't know if it is just lack of knowledge, lack of common sense, laziness, intentional or unintentional blinders to truth .......Or just simple regurgitation of something that was heard on foxnews that is supposed to have relevance and meaning without doing any research, however.

Case in point:

"Hello ! The Republican party was referred to as the Anti slavery party because it eas the Republicans who abolished slavery"

..... While it is a "true" statement -------It has NO relevance to the Republican Party of TODAY!!!

It is thrown around as though it is supposed to mean something and "prove" that today's Republicans aren't racists -

when in fact, is the statement is completely meaningless in the context of today's discussions about the either the Democrat or Republican Party.

Glenda,

I'll try help you out here with a few "facts"...... take a look at the following website:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_United...

And you'll find that the Republican Party of Lincoln has no relationship, ideology, or similarity in philosophy or platform to the Republican Party of today.

The only similarity is the "name" only.

What should be very enlightening for you specifically concerning civil rights is the section titled:

Realignment: The South becomes Republican

You'll find that when the Southern Democrats were pushing for civil rights in the 60s, the southern white racist majority revolted from the Democrat Party and became..... uh, guess what....REPUBLICANS !!!

Bottom line: do your homework before just regurgitating something you heard on foxnews - it doesn't help your "cause" if you lose credibility.

Oh, and I do watch foxnews, msnbc, and cnn - and I'm certainly not going to defend msnbc !!!

However, watching ALL THREE is the ONLY way to get "true" perspective when you come to understand and comprehend that ALL THREE have their biases (some more than others).

Just putting blinders and pointing to msnbc as the lying bastards and thinking foxnews is "fair and balanced"..... or vise versa.... is just plain nuts. IF you want to be a rational and logical human being.

Try it sometime - watch ALL THREE with something called "an open mind" and I'm sure you'll find it quite enlightening.


Skarlet profile image

Skarlet 2 years ago from California

I have watched all three and contrary to what the liberals on this thread are assuming, I am educated. I not only have a degree, but I am always running at least one business. The liberal media lies.....

I went to a tea party one time because I wanted to see what it was "truly" about. There were no racists, and the group were hard working people who were concerned for the future of this country, that's it!

When I watch what the liberal media portrays, I am appalled by the false portrayal. That is the impression I have from going to a tea party with an open mind.

BTW- I watched the tea party on Fox and CNN at the same time and actually saw what the liberal media was doing to brainwash the public. Fox panned back and showed all the people while CNN did close ups of only the whitest people.

When I flicked back to FOX I saw a group of black people behind a white speaker and then flicked back to CNN to find that they closed in on the white guy talking in effort to hide all the other people behind him. That is presenting a false image and after seeing that I have formed an opinion.

The liberals here make statements that favor all things liberal but without actual facts.


stillsurfin 2 years ago

Skarlet,

I have no doubt that you saw differences in the way certain media reports the same event.

And I would never defend any one particular media tv source as being "the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth".

ALL of them will spin the story to sell their bias and trying to argue that any media source is not biased ..... is just plain stupid.

But, IF you can't recognize foxnews spews out propaganda ..... then you may be educated - but unfortunately you must not be very observant or astute.

foxnews (like msnbc) is a blatant propaganda machine to any rational logical human ..... who isn't already brainwashed and doesn't already have a religious-type faith in the network.

I do watch foxnews and listen to foxnews radio, as well as many other broadcasts of a variety of persuasions.

I always chuckle when I hear the propaganda statement: "foxnews - fair and balanced" and feel sorry for the gullible fools who honestly believe that crap.

ANYBODY who has to TELL YOU that they are "honest" or "truthful" or "fair and balanced" is lying to you. Somebody who is telling you the truth doesn't have to tell you that they are telling you the truth - to try persuade you to believe them.

I always question the integrity of somebody who in a conversation says stuff like "to tell you the truth..... blah blah blah" or "to be honest with you .... blah blah blah"

- my reaction is always "why the hell are you telling me that, do you lie all the rest of the time and just now "telling me the truth" for this one thing? Or, are you never honest and are just being honest with me right now?

99% of the people that do that are not honest people.

The bottom line is that ALL media is biased in one way or the other - and anybody that thinks any particular one media is NOT biased, is foolish.

Both msnbc and foxnews are biased left and right in their news reporting - if you don't recognize that fact, then you'll never see truth.

Look, in my opinion (and you can count or discount it, I don't really care)...... ANYBODY who has a dialog where they say stuff like "the XXXXXX media lies but the YYYYY media tells the truth" has already been brainwashed !

Now you can substitute whatever you want for the XXXXXs and YYYYYs (liberal, conservative, msnbc, foxnews, cnn, tnt, abc, cbs, nbc, etc.... etc... etc....)

You can be assured that if you believe XXXXX or YYYYY tells the truth but the others do not - you have already been brainwashed !!


GlendaGoodWitch profile image

GlendaGoodWitch 2 years ago from California

More liberal assumptions and name calling. Just because my views are whst they are doss nit mean that I am not astute. All news puts their delivery through and Fox is the only one that is not sucking up to libs, and for that reason alond "fair snd vslanced" is not an outrageous statement. I alwsys tell the libs who get all of their "news" from television that they should watch an equal time of Fox to be somewhat fair.......


stillsurfin 2 years ago

Uhhhh...Glenda..... it would help in the discussion if you were literate......or at least not drunk as a skunk.....

oh yeah..."fair snd vslanced" that's foxnews alright !!!

or, maybe try moving you left hand 1/4 inch to the right or try using "spellcheck" - it is a common utility used by most of humanity on the internet.


stillsurfin 2 years ago

Oh and....of course.

foxnews the ONLY media outlet in the "history of mankind" *(over 2,000,000 years, going back to when Australopithecus Africanus was banging sticks on rocks to communicate) that does not have ANY bias AT ALL...... yeah, right !

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australopithecus_afri...

Oh sorry, natural history - probably doesn't ring a bell since the universe is only 6,000 years old, right ?

Fair and balanced?

100% truth !

Absolutely NO self interest in influencing your thoughts and beliefs...... just like advertisers selling a product (they really have your interest in mind, not theirs - RIGHT?)

Advertisers are just giving you "honest" and "fair and balanced" information to "help" you make the right purchase with your hard earned money..... Honest !

But... the BEST news is that foxnews is taking on those damn lying bastards .... You know....THOSE SOCIALIST LIBERALS.... Sneaky little shits ! Damn Communists ! Oops sorry, I didn't mean to envoke McCarthism !

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McCarthism

Honest! NO really, Honest..... No, No.... I mean foxnews is REALLY REALLY Honest ! Honest !!!!!!

You should believe me because I'm saying "HONEST" ......

Hey, I'm telling you the TRUTH.... I'm saying FAIR AND BALANCED !! AND TELLING YOU THE TRUTH.....That should make you believe me !!

I'm HONEST and FAIR AND BALANCED !!!!

If I said "fair and balanced", damn ..... you should believe it !

Glenda,

Go ahead and continue to believe that foxnews is the "be all, end all" of fair and balanced reporting and the ONLY 100% truth teller in the .....mmm....... "media"..........

I have heard that self-delusion is a form of comfort.

I hope you're really comfortable.

By the way..... do you have any idea who actually OWNS foxnews and what their agenda is?

I'd bet you've never even checked out the facts about it......and why they spin the stories the way they do.

by the way, when I do watch tv news - I split my time watching foxnews, msnbc, AND cnn ..... do you?


stillsurfin 2 years ago

Glenda,

I apologize..... my last couple of posts were flippant, sarcastic, and mean spirited. They do not add to the conversation.

If I could delete them, I would.


hildacornblower 2 years ago

America was founded on racism and obliterating the red skins. The Whiteys brought their slaves over as quick as they could afford em. Why would it change now?


Deep 2 years ago

Skarlet- I liked your comments! They appear to be based on an educated business person's first hand accessment as well as by comparing media converage on the same event.

The liberals that hover on these types of hubs are closed minded and typically dont produce much value for society by their work income or creating jobs for others. Kind of like spoiled rich kids with no clue.

I hope Obamacare's poor quality coverage for higher cost should help convince the openminded college kids about the pitfall's of Obama's socialism..


jake war eagle 2 years ago

The only reason Republican politicians hate the ACA,is that they have a good health plan,financed and paid for by taz payers,many of whom cannot afford to buy it for themselves. They whine like four year olds about the "socialized' medicare system. News flash! Medicare and Social Security are NOT,repeat NOT entitlements. They have been bought and paid for by hard working Americans!! Vets have earned theirs. Taxpayer funded health care for congresspeople who sit sucking their thumbs all day,THAT IS SOCIALIZED MEDICINE.


stillsurfin 2 years ago

jake,

The REAL reason republican politicians hate (and do everything they can to kill) the ACA is because they fear it's success.

They MUST be against it now, because they had to be against it in the beginning - simply because Obama had proposed it……. even though it was a republican conservative idea in the first place - they just simply have to be AGAINST anything Obama is FOR.

When the ACA becomes a success (which it eventually will) - the republican politicians will come up with some fictitious claim that they somehow "fixed" it - and that is the reason for it's success.

In the end you'll see republican politicians claiming that the ACA (with a few minor tweaks) was really their idea and they will vociferously take credit for it's success.

Quite humorous really - if it wasn't for the fact that so much time has been wasted (and will continue to be wasted) in Washington DC on the ACA ……

When it could have been spent on the really serious issues we face to the American way of life we've had for the last 60 years - like the soon end of an oil-based society, climate change, strengthening the American education system, and improving the physical & technical infrastructure to help American industries be competitive in the global economy.

Instead both republican and democrat politicians piss and moan, insult each other, are against WHATEVER the other guy is for - and completely waste valuable time and resources on utter nonsense.

Unfortunately, their "mindset" has been bought into by millions of Americans who have been "trained" by their choice of biased TV media to do the EXACT same thing with fellow Americans ……

…... republican groupies attacking democrats - democrat groupies attacking republicans - and tea party groupies attacking everybody.

Meanwhile the rest of the world is improving while America is declining simply because Americans can't play nice with each other anymore !

Now THAT is just plain stupid !!!!

But, that is also how every great empire in human history has collapsed - decay and discord from within.

Unfortunately it it was going to happen to the American Empire sooner or later.

It's just too bad that it is happening at a time when we are citizens.

Oh well, surf's up on the North Shore - time for more important things to do !!!


Lou 2 years ago

I don't hate him......but as far as his so called "change you can believe in" promise....well that was total BS on his part. As far as I can tell, this administration has been business as usual in Washington.


rex 2 years ago

they hate obama for only 1 reason, cuz he is black, just look at the electoral map in both elections, north-west coast for o-b the entire south, goes neo-con,, ecp flordia, yes that hate for black peeps is still there in good old dixie land cuz those white rednecks are still there, but they better get it in thier stupid hillbilly minds, the south will never rise agin and they know it as the demographics have really changed and they cant handle that, well too bad, welcome to the usa you dumb redneck hillbillys. or i should say welcome to the big melting pot which you will not ever change, ha ha ha s palin for potus,, that is your dream which will never come true, now go off to fantasy land were you neo-cons belong.


AlexDrinkH2O profile image

AlexDrinkH2O 2 years ago from Southern New England, USA

The comment above by someone named "rex" is a prime example of abject stupidity and sheer ignorance. The criticism of Barack Obama has nothing to do with race - it is a result of his failed policies, lack of leadership, and the overall incompetence of his administration. Not to mention the sheer arrogance of the man. He is a piss-poor president - period. So STOP playing the "race card." You are convincing nobody but yourself.


stillsurfin 2 years ago

Alex,

While Rex is little vigorous in his writing -

He does have his opinion because it is a FACT that racism is alive and well in America ....especially in the regions he indicates and there are many closet and open racists that DO hate President Obama simply because he of the color of his skin and hair.

Now, I personally DO NOT believe every republican and tea party groupie hates Obama because he is not 100% Caucasian - but I do believe a significant percentage do.

You personally may not hate Obama because of his race - but, the fact that you don't recognize that there are many who do criticize him only because it has to do with race .... is delusional.

And, while you don't criticize him just because of his race.....it’s obvious that you do criticize Obama for a number of fictitious, hypocritical, and just plain silly reasons. Not ALL of your criticisms - but many.

Like the phony Benghazi “scandal” discussion we had earlier in this thread.

Or the belief that ALL of Obama’s policies are “failed policies”.

The FACT is that Obama’s policies have improved the American Economy during his 5 years and no amount of false rhetoric can change that fact !

----- although fox news and their “groupies" continue repeating over an over again….. blah…. blah…..Obama…..bad…...failed policies…… blah….evil socialist ..... blah…..lack of leadership……blah….. blah….. worst president in history……blah…. blah…..

Unfortunately for the republican & tea party groupies that spew out that nonsense - Americans who are independent-minded are not caught up in the irrational hate mongering (between republican and democrats and vise versa) …...and they know that those one liner “zingers” are nothing but BS.

Now again…. I do NOT believe that Obama has been the perfect President.

Personally, I am against a number of the things he is for and I believe he has made a number of mistakes.

NO President has ever been perfect - ALL of them have made mistakes.

I have disagreed some of the decisions and actions that every single one of the American Presidents that have served during my lifetime to one extent or another.

But.....Obama is NOT the miserable, incompetent, and uppity Monster that he has been and continues to be portrayed by the Republican and Tea Party groupies.

Logical and rational Americans have a very difficult time accepting any the opinions of those individuals who portray Obama as 100% flawed -

- simply because that is factually impossible !

When individuals portray Obama in such a negative light - it is obvious to normal logical Americans that and the person that is spewing out that nonsense has been brainwashed.

Unfortunately, that brainwashing inhibits any rational dialog taking place !

By the way……earlier in this thread you said "Go ahead, have the last word because I'm not wasting my time any more on this hub.”

I’m glad you changed your mind !!

It shows the possibility that you aren’t “locked in” to a position and may seriously consider real facts and data instead of silly political rhetoric in developing your opinions.


charles 2 years ago

wow, this has been a heated topic and i'm glad i ran across this just now and i did post a link on my fb page. No matter what color somebody skincolor is, you should not hold that against them because the race as a whole never did nothing to you. Example, a racist white cop pulls me over for driving while black. Am i supposed to hate the whole race because of this 1 white guy? No, i just hate this 1 guy who happenes to be white.Some of my family and best friends are white. I would kill over them just as i would a black person.Just because you wanna start a race war and think imma join because we share the same skincolor and you say well send us all back to africa! Well, u can keep that bs and sell my ticket cuz imma just look at you stupid.


check 2 years ago

Reality check guys. Both sides have and will play the race and gender card simply because it works.

Pro "non white" and "non -male" policies worlwide are driving big profits and growing many organizations. Unfortunately like most such actions they are self perpetuating. Simply put the leadership of such groups "secretly loves" the problems as the drama about them make them rich and famous.

How or why things shifted from the 1950's era pro white race imbalance thing to the current anti white deal is debatable but people & their natural biases have not changed.

Is it really racism that causes the majority of violent criminal in jail to STILL be black?... no..it is cultural and this twisted, liberal reality for past few decades has perpetuated that issue ..


stillsurfin 2 years ago

check,

I'm not sure I understand your last post and I'm curious.... what "twisted liberal reality" are you talking about?

I've always thought reality is....well, "reality - state of things as they actually exist".

So I can't seem to grasp what you mean that some twisted liberal reality (which is somehow different than real reality) is the cause of more blacks than whites being incarcerated......

Or, are you suggesting that the majority of those in jail are black simply because blacks are just more culturally criminal in their normal behavior than whites ...... (along the line of - "oh, those blacks just can't help being thieves and murderers because it is their culture to be criminals"?

I'd always thought the simple explanation why there are more black people than white people in jail ..... is because there are is a higher percentage of black people in poverty than white people.

And, "poverty" leads to more crime of all types (everything from stealing food to eat to 1st degree murder) in local neighborhoods ........ leading to more criminals ....... and less money to defend criminals when they do get caught.

And, to help keep the percentage of rich whites out of jail lower - affluent white people that are criminals and do get caught (or their children) ......seem to have the financial ability to obtain more "get out of jail" free cards than poor people with high priced lawyers who can manipulate and maneuver better in the legal system

So, please help me understand where I'm missing the boat that it is really some "twisted liberal reality" or "black culture" that is reason more blacks are in jail instead of - poverty (and all it's ramifications).


check 2 years ago

The issue is our current culture and its embedded, deep seated racism against those in poverty and those groups with powerful (non white) special interest groups.

Affirmative action, welfare, food stamp programs in the year 2014 is an Insult to blacks and many others.

Why? Because it is designed to Never end. The government and the leadership of the special interest groups Wants and needs to keep many in poverty condition…and Wants to keep them depended on government subsidies like food stamps because that managed situation promotes control of those people.

Do you really expect the NAACP or another big ticket special interest group to ever come out and say “ Guys, we accomplished our mission, please stop sending in donations, please stop the fundraisers, please stop the government lobbies, please let us dismiss our million dollar + leadership figures.. great job guys.. we are free and truly seen and equals based on content of our character and not the color of our skin..” ? ( You know this will NEVER happen)

Do you really think my experience from a trip to Wal-Mart yesterday where I saw more than 4 dozen nice, presumably poorer people all waiting in long lines to use their Lonestar ( food stamp) card to purchase big baskets full of nice products and foods will change anytime soon? I didn’t have a line to wait in since I was in the self checkout line which does not accept food stamp based payments according to the employee I spoke with. The dozens of people I saw have a fully survivable , sustainable lifestyle which they are teaching to their children. That lifestyle is one of mastering the available government programs and take maximum advantage of their poor management.

These people using the system are not bad or stupid. The problem is our disgrace of a government that created and maintains an environment where it is much easier to stay in so called poverty. I say so called because I saw very nice and expensive cuts of T bone and other steaks as well as top of the line Blue Bell ice cream ( not on sale) in one of the basket next to where I checked out.

This government and the socialist liberals as well as the Tea party types are not helping America come together or find true sources of pride and inspiration for our children. Instead we see government getting bigger, fatter, more wasteful while individuals rights are reduced. The country needs a fresh start. Maybe try living with pride in being a productive citizen, maybe no public welfare at all ( if you need help you ask family friends, church and charity only), maybe have leadership roles in a small Federal government being something to be proud of, maybe not having any social programs about race or gender or orientation and just let free enterprise work?


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