Why do Blacks (African Americans) Vote Democrat?

During the heat of the 2008 presidential campaign, many of my conservative co-workers asked me why Blacks overwhelmingly voted for Democrats. If they did not have the answer, I am sure that most of you don’t either. When I made a Google inquiry, the answers were both spotty and incomplete. I am qualified to address this as an experienced (aged) African American resident of these United States, along with the fact that I am student of African American history with the ability to take that historical knowledge and discuss it within the realm of American History. It turned out that 95% of African Americans who voted in 2008 voted for Barack Obama.

But, John Kerry received 88% of the Black vote in 2004. So, Blacks have a tendency to vote Democrat regardless of all the scuttlebutt I received that blacks voted for Obama because he was black. The year 2008 was a pivotal year, when the incumbent GOP president, G.W. Bush was quite unpopular and the nation had just gone through the worse economic downturn since the Great Depression. So, with the lackluster John McCain as the GOP standard bearer, was the outcome really that startling? So when you add into it the novelty of a young and fresh face and the natural pride African Americans have in seeing one of their own attain so lofty an office, I think that I can easily explain the exceptional turnout that provided the additional 8% black support given to Obama as compared with John Kerry.

In the beginning, we have to return to the Civil War and address the record of the first Republican president, Abraham Lincoln. I am a fervent fan of this person, who I regard as America’s greatest president, and you will see that historians agree. Mr. Lincoln conferred with and took the advice of abolitionist Frederick Douglass. This was a first, the mark of a true leader, willing to learn and grow as part of the job. Lincoln was truly a progressive for his time and had the vision of a leader to recognize that slavery was inconsistent with our national creed. This is the party that led the fight against slavery and secession and, of course, earned the gratitude and trust of blacks whether formerly slave or freeman.

But, today’s GOP is not your great, great grandfather’s Republican party. One hundred and fifty years is a long time and lot can and has changed. Then, the Republicans wanted a hard line toward the South while the Democrats were interested in compromise on the issue of slavery and were advocating a negotiated settlement of the Civil War. The Republicans lost out not so much by design but by neglect, which I will discuss later. In spite of the removal of federal troops from a reconstructing south as agreed to by Republican Rutherford B. Hayes in 1877, Blacks still saw Republicans as basically in their corner. Theodore Roosevelt, another progressive GOP president, the last of the line, I should add, appointed Blacks to prominent positions within his administration and held an audience with educator Booker T. Washington, facing the ire of the South as a result. Can you believe that I had an aunt that died within the last 20 years who actually met Mr. Washington?

But now, here comes Woodrow Wilson, a Democrat, elected President in 1912 who re-segregates agencies under the Executive Branch, bringing “Jim Crow” to Washington, where it previously did not exist. When Black civil rights leaders complain to the President in regards to this, he summarily dismisses them. The Democrats were the pro-southern party that was resistant to the aspirations of the African American community. They voted to a man against federal anti-lynching bills, hiding behind states rights. How could anyone at the highest levels of government support such vigilantism against people, denying due process rights just because of their color? It makes us wonder if people who could do things like this can ever really change.

As time passed, we move well into the 20th Century and we all wanted to “Return to Normalcy” during the 1920’s. The Republicans were more and more defining themselves as a pro-business party. Well, when the bottom fall out and Wall Street laid an egg in October, 1929, the Great Depression arrived. America was looking for a leader who could show the way out, even if it meant bucking the status quo. Blacks in many areas were stuck with unemployment rates approaching 50 percent compared to 20 percent for whites. So, if whites were looking for a savior, we were looking just that much harder.

Franklin Roosevelt, while hardly a radical in the area of race relations, was the first president in many years to recognize the issue as one that needed to be addressed. However, the real hero was his wife, Eleanor Roosevelt, who was the President’s conscience, prodding him to get behind the need to address the long lingering civil rights grievances of African-Americans within American society. She did more than just talk, she risked her own and the President’s political capital from everything including requiring fair hiring for federally sponsored projects (1941) to making sure that racists were confronted and prevented from excluding Marion Anderson from singing before for a public audience in Washington, DC in 1939. She promoted giving Blacks a fair chance across various aspects of American life, which endeared her and President Roosevelt to our community. By 1936, our allegiances were starkly changing from Republican to Democrat.

Then, we meet with Harry Truman, Mr. Plain Speaking. He desegregated the Armed Forces and made it illegal through Executive Order to discriminate within the Civil Service. While this was going on, Hubert Humphrey, another friend of Blacks and a true progressive, was working to get civil rights planks placed into the Democratic party platform, a true act of courage against Dixiecrats who by 1948 realized that their ‘daddy’s’ Democratic party was in the process of change. Who thinks that we were not watching to see who it was that was standing out front for change, change that African-Americans demanded and said was long overdue? Well, it certainly wasn’t the GOP. Change was an imperative at that time, a foundation of our very existence.

As we move into the 1950’s we are confronted with Dwight Eisenhower, an amiable fellow. We were looking for leaders and candidates with ‘fire in the belly’. Eisenhower acknowledged the problem of Civil Rights and addressed it, but the momentum required more activist response. Remember, we are in the 1950’s, the modern American Civil rights movement began with Rosa Parks and the MontgomeryAlabama bus lines boycott in 1955. Pressure for change was irresistible and no one wanted to wait on the sidelines anymore. I talk to Conservatives who say how much they loved the 50’s. Well, in reality, the 1950’s was a boiling cauldron for many contentious issues that were simmering and ready to explode. The relative calm and order that Conservatives craved was not sustainable as they would soon see.

Republicans were still in opposition to the principles of the “New Deal” and concepts of minimum wage. The Democrats were fast becoming the party that at least attempted to look after the economic interests of the middle class, working class, and poor. As people who have a higher percentage in the working classes and poor, with whom are we going to identify?

While John Kennedy was slow to recognize the significance of issue, he too, learned on the job that this issue defined the meaning of being American. He recognized in the final year or two of his presidency that the status quo was not good enough and that leadership was required. We are embarrassed when American discrimination is reported to other countries as we are in the midst of the Cold War and our adversaries use this to call us hypocrites. A bit of political astuteness by the Kennedy campaign allowed it to garner a majority of African-American votes in 1960. Robert Kennedy used his influence to get Martin Luther King out of a southern jail, while Nixon, who certainly was not an adversary of Black people generally, was slow to respond during a time when action was needed.

In June, 1963, on the very day that civil rights activist Medgar Evers was murdered in Mississippi, Kennedy spoke to the nation on television about the Civil Rights crisis in an elegant way, making it clear what side he was on in regards to aspirations of African Americans. He spoke with Martin Luther King and proposed Civil Rights legislation that unfortunately had to be seen through by his successor, Lyndon Baines Johnson. Johnson surprised us all, breaking cleanly with the Dixiecrats and as a southerner calling the South to a new way. Only someone with his legislative experience and muscle could get this contentious legislation passed and the Black community remain in his debt.

For a Republican, Nixon was relatively progressive. Recognizing the structural inequity found in American society, he proposed much of the affirmative action programs which has been the ire of Conservatives. But, by the 1970’s the die was cast. The Republicans introduce the “Southern Strategy”, feeding on racial resentment to get votes from a once solid Democratic South. Surely no one believes that this mass defection at this particular time was just mere coincidence? Then we get into the 1980’s, more GOP neglect of the Willy Hortons’ and ‘ketchup is a vegetable’ sort.

Bill Clinton’s center left politics took into account African American aspirations and it was noted that economic circumstances improved a great deal for the group during his term. While others castigated him for his indiscretions, we stood by him, as one that was supportive. Have you ever been to one of their (GOP) national conventions? There are a myriad of camera tricks employed to show anyone of color anywhere within the crowd. I did not have problems seeing representation across the racial and ethnic spectrum during the Democratic National Conventions. I and many others find that much more comforting.

African-Americans, while having large swatches of the community that can be considered culturally conservative who would normally be attracted to the GOP position on social issues, do not find that in itself enough to attract them to the Republican party. Unlike many working class and poor whites, we are not going to let an abortion issue or who sleeps with who or a definition of marriage, red meat issues for whites, interfere with the primary focus of economics, jobs, opportunity etc. We have our evangelical places of worship, but politically have little if any affinity with white Christian groups, to make the point.

The bottom line being that until we can support ourselves and our families, everything else is scenery along the side of the road. If Republicans want to do better with Blacks it needs to show me and us how their unfettered free-market capitalism philosophy will lift all boats and not just the yachts. Even most of the wealthiest of us do not support the GOP, because we know that the progressives’ approach of seeing that the door of opportunity was opened was more important to success than conservative ideology and rhetoric, which never seems to hold water in reality.

I am prepared to face rebuttals for this, as this is my assessment and my opinion. So bring it on!! Thank you for your attention.

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HSchneider 5 years ago from Parsippany, New Jersey

Great history of the 2 parties on race issues. It is remarkable how they both have ebbed and flowed on this issue over the years since the Civil war era. It amazes me that President Nixon would be a Democrat now because his policies would have him drummed out of the GOP. He'd be a liberal Democrat now. The bottom line is that parties change a lot as time goes by. The southern strategy was a calculated political strategy in the 1960's and LBJ handed it to them. But it was a Faustian bargain. LBJ knew it was the right and moral thing to do and he was the supreme political animal. The GOP has shook hands with the racist part of the South which still rules there. Demographics are against them and will continue to slowly hurt them. The Democrats are far from perfect but they do seek to give opportunity to all while the Republicans pander to their base which is Corporate America and the wealthy. That is where their funding comes from. This is a narrow base but if they keep the South they know they still have a shot.

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marcoujor 5 years ago from Jeffersonville PA

It is difficult to keep my attention and you most certainly did -- thank you for a VOTED UP & USEFUL read-- you are a powerful writer with much insight-- thank you!

Credence2 profile image

Credence2 5 years ago from Florida (Space Coast) Author

HS, yes the GOP have drifter so far to right in the last 30 years, Nixon today would have been considered a "RINO". LBJ was a man of conscience and principle, had it not been for the Vietnam morass, he may well have taken a more favorable place in American history. The GOP in earlier times were neglectful and indifferent, now they are hostile. The transition happening over the last 30 years with Ronald Reagan. Thanks as always for your imput.

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Credence2 5 years ago from Florida (Space Coast) Author

Hello, Marcoujor, thanks for your comments. I get a little carried away sometimes, once I start down the road on a project like this, best regards...

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Jillian Barclay 5 years ago from California, USA

Dear Credence2,

The Republican party of today is pro-business, regardless of whether business is right or wrong! They are at the very least, proposing and fighting for an entirely corporate run America. The destruction of what remains of the middle class is the ultimate goal, and we may get there if we do not wake up.

The very rich rulers and the poor have-nots, we will be begging, compromising all for that one loaf of bread that will have to shared.

Excellent piece of writing! I think that voters who believe in justice and equality, black or white, have no choice but to vote Democrat. The option(voting Republican) is a vote against the very interests of all common men and women. Don't understand why middle-class Repubs don't see it. Can they be so blind?

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Credence2 5 years ago from Florida (Space Coast) Author

Thanks, Jillian for you support. I still trying to figure how to get the masses to awake from the slumber and or delusion of what is taking place regarding the cruel hoax being played upon them. Best regards.....

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Anne Pettit 5 years ago from North Carolina

Excellent Hub!! Well written and researched. Thankyou for writing it. I was born and raised in Berkeley, CA and moved to a small town in the South with my multi-colored family. I really did not understand how deep and far reaching racism was until I moved here. Anne Pettit

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Credence2 5 years ago from Florida (Space Coast) Author

Thanks, Anne I am glad that you approved. I see that you hail from the great tar heel of North Carolina. I would sure like to know more about contemporary race relations in the South. Maybe we can chat or you pen a hub as to how "deep and far reaching" from your perspective?

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d.william 5 years ago from Somewhere in the south

Excellent. Well written and well thought out article. Puts everything in perspective. It still saddens me that we are not simply a nation of Americans, but have to differentiate between Afro-American and others. We seem to be segregating more and more: African Americans, Muslim Americans, Spanish Americans, Christians versus everyone else, Gay Americans, Women's rights issues (again). This division of the American people is nothing more than political posturing and it is truly sickening. We have come to promote hatred instead of love, define morality based on stupidity and ignorance rather than understanding and tolerance, etc..

Surprisingly enough many of the black community in this area still favors the GOP because of their stance against abortion, gay rights, politicians falsely professing to be "Christians", empty campaign promises and listening to way too much Fox news network.

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Credence2 5 years ago from Florida (Space Coast) Author

D, thanks for the observation, yes the history is abbreviated at best. Economic pressure has served to bring out all the hidden resentments and have people more focused on the malevolent natures and fears. Those of the aristocracy gain by distracting people of differing ethnic backgrounds away from the real culprit, the folks that run off with store while we fight over crumbs on the table.

The number of black conservatives a la GOP is still rare. I hate to say it but many of them have been duped by those that have no real use in Christian beliefs just in cornering the vote of as many as possible by persuading them to ultimately work against his or her best interests. Well, we will see, thanks for reading and taking note. Cred2

Shannon 4 years ago

I believe in many parts of this blog you are both historically wrong and “progressivly” biased, here's why.

Why african American? Were you born there? If you were born in the US, you are an American, that's it. How you catorgorize yourself is your issue and “aferican american 'is a liberal code to help devide we the people from each other. Nowhere in the world is this term used but here. I wonder why, maybe so they can keep the devision going.

More white people voted for our last president than blacks. Why? Because there are more of them. I as a black man did not. I researched him and found him VERY lacking in his qualifications.

Yes Lincoln was a Republican not a [r]epublican. He was VERY MUCH FOR BIG CENTRAL GOVERNMENT. Take a good look at some of the Lincolns writings concerning blacks at the time. He was more interested in not breaking the union or losing new territories than slaves. The southern states wanted to suseed for more reasons than slavery. Just like today the fedreal government was doing its best to bully the states.

Some of your history is accurate but you keep using the word “progressive”, a liberal fasist word . Being “progressive” is never a good thing, look back to the 1920s to1940 when “progressive was all the rage, It led to such great things as NAZIs, Death Camps, WAR, Genoside all in the name of the “progressive movement”. In the 40's they decided to change their name to hide. they became “liberals”. Look it up in a book don't just google it. Remember google is run by a company who has its own agenda. Need an example of how the “progressives “ changed things to make themselves more palitable.

The United Eugenics Society who wanted to eliminate blacks and the poor from the face of the world (look up eugenics if you need to and add Margret Sanger to that list) , changed its name to PLANNED PARENTHOOD. Most don't even know that. In most recent history a company proven to be scum, ACORN went thru a name change, but did not go away and they are still doing the same stuff , just under a new name.

Bill Clinton was a disgrace. HE single handedly destroyed a large chunk or our moral structure and credability worldwide, saying that a BJ was not sex and showing that sexually harassing a woman if you are in potitics is OK. ( Remember it was not about sex per se, it was about lying under oath in a sexual misconduct/ harrassment case, which he did and lost his law licence because of it. Again look it up). Also his placement of his “office “ in Harlem is nothing more than political posturing. Notice they ( he and Hillary) didn't buy a house there but in Westchester County the WHITEST COUNTY IN NY.

You generalize excessively in what blacks pay attention to. It show to me you are a leftist not a conservitive, regaurdless of your party affiliation. You are seemingly appearing Republician but your words are , shall I say “ progressive”.

You are also wrong in your generalization of peoples religious beliefs and who they associate with. You again separate one group from another with broad generalizations that you give no data to support.

Remember there are more “whites” in the bible belt than blacks and unless you believe in some other GOD ,you pray to the same one. There are MORE “white” people on welfare, less “white “social programs, and on and on. In fact as far as most of your blog is concerned you supply no actual data just inaccurate opinion. You have a very “liberal” view of “africain americans” You have apperently been feeding from the “progressive liberal” trough very well. The Government is not a friend of blacks or any minority, period. They either promote bigoty or dependance.

As a Black Man I want the govenrment out of my way. I do not believe a white person or philophsy is going to stop me if it is something I really want no matter what it is. WE as BLACKS must be an example to others less fortunate of all colors and do our best to promote

1) Street cred means nothing and going to jail IS A BAD THING

2) Being “a baby daddy” is no accomplishment.

3) Having a job and an education is a good, no a great thing.

4) WE ARE AMERICANS not some hypenated subgroup.

5) Calling women ho or bitches is demeaning to you and all women.

6) There is no help, you must do it yourself. Rely on you first.

7) Do not believe anyone who says you are “disadvantaged” or says they are “progressive”, ultimatly they have it in their head you are incapable of doing and succeeding ON YOUR OWN.

Credence2 profile image

Credence2 4 years ago from Florida (Space Coast) Author

Shannon, Thanks for your reply , So, why Irish-american, Mexican-American or Chinese American, for them to define themselves this way does that mean that they had to born there? We are already divided and it has nothing to do what you or I call ourselves, just more rightwing propaganda. But I will assure you that the majority of my group is not buying it.

I question your blackness are you just going in “blackface” such as so many conservative whites, rightwingers, try to do? Truly conservative blacks do not shape the argument like you have here. Regardless of what you think, I and many like me are quite satisfied with the current occupant of the White House

As for Abe Lincoln, what were you for, Secession? I know that Lincoln was not egalitarian, 2012 style, but by mid 19th century standards and views and mores of the time he was well ahead. It is common knowledge that he was more interested in keeping the union together than dealing with slavery. But it turned out that in order to save the union, slavery had to be abolished and he needed to be given credit for his astute observation of that fact. That “States Rights’ argument does not resonate well with me.

As for my history or understanding of it, my thanks to you for recognizing the accuracy of at least some of it. On the contrary, being ‘progressive’ is the best and ONLY thing,,, I don’t have time for anything less. Don’t confuse progressivism with fascism. The two are not the same. The rightwinger is always the ultimate cause of war and violence, you cannot deceive me. For you Google is a leftist source of information? Where do you people get your history, I already know that you get your news from Fox, a source of dubious reliability

The real threat is from those that seek to take control of the world thru economics, that is in front of my face everyday. I don’t see too many guys openly advocating eugenics. ACORN empowers minority and underserved voters which the rightwing just as soon repress. I am all for them. I will take Bill Clinton with his pants down any day before George Bush and his much more serious ethical violations. I have read enough about Bill Clinton and I know of his skeletons in the closet and say that in spite of that he is a better man than any rightwinger.

The real threat is from those that seek to take control of the world thru economics, that is in front of my face everyday. I don’t see too many guys openly advocating eugenics. ACORN empowers minority and underserved voters which the rightwing just as soon repress. I am all fWhy am I wrong about my observation about religion? Blacks vote democratic at 90% or better, your evangelical Christian white groups are GOP to a man or woman. Where does the twain meet? Our worshippers have nothing in common with the Christian Right. I make it clear that I lean most strongly toward the democratic party who in an imperfect world is the lesser or two evils (political parties) We may worship the same God, but it ends there, rest assured. I don’t generalize, if Blacks were so concerned about all the social issues the rightwinger fusses about, the GOP would statistically get more black support.

I would trust the Government as I have some control over who it is I am governed by. I certainly do not trust the corporate power structure and the rightwing ideology over which I have no control. Being a living breathing black male with almost 7 decades in the society, I think I know a little about my culture, good and bad, what do you think?

I have hubs that speak of the need for blacks to be more self reliant and I am keen to those things, but the rightwinger is certainly not my friend regardless of what I do or do not do. When we are not adversely singled out by statistics within this society and of life chances are not less than that of the predominant culture maybe then I can see us all as one……

Again thanks for you contribution

Shannon 4 years ago

As a Black man born and bred I am proud of my color and I reject your supposition that I am in "black face". I am deeply disturbed by your lack of understanding of black history or that of the {r}epublican party. It was they who stopped women's suffrage not the dems ( in fact dems blocked it). It was not the dems who rallied around Rosa Parks, quite the opposite. It was Dems and the "progressives", now called liberals, who did all they could to stop desegregation, pushed anti- interracial marriage ( to which I would not be here) and has consistently done everything and anything to keep blacks and minorities "in their place".

I do not confuse progressive with fascist, in fact I look at history. Go to the 1900s-1940s, progressive and fascist are indeed one and the same. Look at history and you will see not a "progressive " movement but one of power and control by monsters who thought, and still think that they can rule the world. The reality is that progressivism is Marxism, an activist process of change, leading to socialism, which leads to fascism (socialism with a jackboot on your throat). The ultimate goal is communism . Remember, only the select, elite few tell the masses how to think, live etc. That's why we are hearing so much about "fairness" and "equality for all" (the “99%” sound familiar?). These are just a mind / word games.

Look at what they are doing to religion now. They are slowly eliminating GOD, for in communism it is intolerable to have any power higher than the state. Again, control. Pay attention to schools, they don't teach or reinforce any real family values. They teach betrayal of the family trust, child sex acts and a homosexual agenda all the while professing a "progressive " learning style centered around a child worshiping dogma of indoctrination, NOT education. While children are being taught to not be bullies and how to put rubbers on cucumbers they are not taught how to SPELL cucumber and are led to believe that even if they do nothing they are"special". These are the same tactics used by the Hitler youth movement. Are you aware that in Obamacare is a requirement that all young people sign up for Service to America and they MUST pledge allegiance to OBAMA? (yes, it's in the bill. “We have to pass the bill to find out what's in it.” Nancy Pelosi, Progressive) Not the USA, not in the interest of freedom, but OBAMA. Look up history. Again, this is the stuff of fascist Germany and Hitler.

You speak about trusting the government, well the Jews who got on the train did too, see what that got them. I suggest you read some BOOKS instead of blogs, try Mien Kampf, Rise and Fall of the Third Reich, Communism for Dummies, Inside the Third Reich(memoirs by Albert Speer), as well as The German Dictatorship by Karl Dietrich Bracher.

Of course you don't hear anyone advocate for eugenics ("openly"). The new phrase is " reproductive freedom". Margret Sanger, a "progressive", was the inspiration and ideological resource for Hitler's master race plan (eugenics). You speak about knowing history but as you have responded I see you have been brainwashed and have succumbed to the lies of the left. This is a perfect example of you answering your own question concerning blacks and why they vote democrat. Your statement about 7 decades of experience and your knowledge of "our culture" is telling and I would ask what culture? The AMERICAN culture, which is a melting pot of all races and religions, or the "black culture " ( you can use any culture, it is all the same ... but separate. sound familiar) which is a roadblock to true American freedom as it separates Blacks from our fellow men and women.

All people need to rely on themselves and their brothers and sisters. NOT the government, as any government thus far has been about power and control by a select few, not by "we the people". I don't need some government stooge telling me how to live or how not to live. No matter if they are Democrats or republican, liberal or conservative.

Shannon 4 years ago

Sorry I for got this quote:

I saw in State Rights the only availing check upon the absolutism of the sovereign will, and secession filled me with hope, not as the destruction but as the redemption of Democracy.

Lord Acton

Defending the states right to secede and form their own governments

Credence2 profile image

Credence2 4 years ago from Florida (Space Coast) Author

Shannon, As for your being black, I apologize, if I am incorrect in my previous assumption. There is a distinction between the GOP and the Dem parties of the past and what they are today and I am concerned about what they are what they currently represent as I alluded to in the article. As for Rosa Parks, we all know that the Democratic Party was a fixture in local politics in the South well up through the late 1960’s with the change of affiliation corresponding with the “Southern Strategy”. The party that resisted Ms Parks in 1950’s is not the same party now. The article focused on national politics.

Yes, if one wikipedia the “progressive era”, one can find a fraction of those that spoke of eugenics as a solution, To say that progressive as we understand that in the terms of our political parties today is fascism is not correct. Change is often times activist, and is good within an evolutionary, democratic setting. It is the same argument from you guys, we are already socialist to a great extent, whether you want to admit it or not. It is just that the beneficiaries are those at the top of the income curve. Your conclusion that Communism is what liberal progressive types seek is alarmist and makes you a pliant tool of the corporate power structure that seeks to acquire unlimited wealth and power unto itself, while spooking the masses with words like socialism and communism.

I don’t see any trend to eliminate religion, that is the argument conservatives always make. I have written about that as well, I don’t want to be compelled by others to make private decisions in this matter and that is my problem with conservatives. My religion may not be your religion, but my right to worship in my fashion must, in a pluralistic system, be the same as your right. I have problems with the schools and how they do things and there is room for improvement, no doubt, but what are you advocating “compulsory prayer in public schools?’ What is your source regarding this ‘Service for America’ and pledge to Obama? Substantiate it with facts from responsible sources, not Fox News, and I will check it out.

I have more trust in Government over which I have some control over the corporate entities that have too much control over politics currently over which I have none. I have read enough books to know what’s going on and the answer does not lie with rightwing political philosophy, far from it.

Your view on Margaret Sanger is rightwing propaganda. I do not know what Hitler picked up from Sanger’s work. But, I am aware that during the beginning of the last century, woman had no reproductive choices and Sanger was needed to have the woman’s voice represented in the process which I do not consider unreasonable in a period when they could not even vote. What were they, mere chattel? The lies and misconception comes from your side, and the lies from the right are much more stark. So all of the black folks have been brainwashed by the left? From where does that arrogance derive? Yes, there is an American culture the benefits of which blacks have been systematically excluded for some time, but of course, your being black, you would know that already. See my article “why black history month”. The politics, economics and cultural differences from within the black community as opposed to general society are not the same. The rightwinger tries to amalgamate rather than to treat everyone the same despite their differences.

The Government is US, and if it is not we need to change it so that it more closely reflects that. While we are individual, your rights end where mine begin, we live in a society of over 300 million, individual freedoms are to be reconciled with that fact. The biggest imposition on any and all freedom comes from the right. But that is just my opinion.

Again thanks for dropping by….

Shannon 4 years ago

OK thanks for the apology on the”black thing”. You honestly, with a straight face, site Wikipedia as a source, that is the center for he said she said. Look in a REAL BOOK then quote it and leave a reference. It is quite easy as you had to of learned to do that a some time. Try reading the Websters dictionary definition. That is what I quoted. From a book that none can edit. Where as wiki can be edited by all. You preform a typical liberal/progressive move by bringing the argument to the level of ridiculous and make ALL KINDS OF ASSUMPTION. Remember the “not black” statement from your last reply, speak not of things you know nothing about. Again read some history , from a book made from paper more than 20 years old hopefully. Progressive then is progressive now, the word still means the same. There is NO change that is good in a true “democratic setting” democracy is mob rule.. (again look it up 51% win in a vote, what about the other 49%.) On being already socialist, our system which is a representative republic is not that way ,that's why you have “super majority” votes and that was how OBAMACARE was passed, not by 51-49 but by 7 votes. My depiction of Marxist/communist is textually and historically accurate. During the time before the war (that’s WW2) both Stalin and Hitler decided to not butt heads over the semantics of the subject, their disagreement was who would eventually rule the world. Remember Hitler killed 10s of millions for “socialism ( hence the “national socialist party”- NAZI) and Stalin also Killed 10s of millions of people in the USSR in the name of his communist agenda. If the truth about history is alarmist then so be it I cannot rewrite what others did on the name of “progress”, but I will stand high on my rooftop screaming to others to be careful and to remember history which you apparently do not ( or were you a sympathizer).

As far as religious practices, do what you will, that IS your choice, but if you are one on a crowd and are offended because those around you say”under god” at the pledge then remember the Constitution does NOT give you the right to not be offended, grow a backbone and get on with you life, If you are so petty to want “change “ like that then you do not deserve the freedoms you enjoy now.

Concerning your comment about “compulsory prayer”, again this tactic is old liberal fodder, and to suggest such a thing lowers my belief that I am speaking with an intellectual.

The Service to America is part of OBAMACARE read the bill it will scare you what really is in it. There is your source I actually read it took me days and days but I did, have you, if not why not. It will effect your life as well as all other Americans.


Here is one of Obama’s flunkies discussing this concept. Look it up on you tube you will find hundreds of unedited quotes from Obama and his regime concerning service to America. You say no foxnews like I actually watch that garbage and believe it. Very funny coming from the person who relies on wiki for info. I never said or implied that the right was “right” quite the opposite I trust no one in our government to do so is foolish.

Here's an old saying based in truth, just ask a Jew older than 80, oh I forgot not many of them left (thank you Hitler). First they came for the Jews, I stayed quiet for I was no Jew and how was that to effect me, then they came for the homosexuals and again I said nothing for I was no homosexual, then they came for the gypsies, and I said nothing for I was not concerned about the gypsies, then one day they came for the Christians and I again said nothing I was no christian and maybe it was better that they were gone. Then one day … they came for me. There was no one to say I had done nothing wrong or that I wasn't different than them. Are you getting the message. Try this... First they went after the smokers, even though it was not illegal, then they went after the fat people, then they went after the protesters... see a pattern here. If you think I am an alarmist you are one of the cattle that will be rounded up... if you are alive since it will be too expensive to pay for your healthcare at your age. What you can pay for it yourself, sorry Obamacare says you can't, it's against the law, we must all be equal. I dare you to read the b***, sorry, law. Or the HHS rules that are just being made as we speak. I know you won't liberal/progressives are cowards and will only look at or read what they agree with ( can you say book burning parties).

Your information on Margret Sanger is infantile at best naïve at its worst and you opinion (and that is what it is ) about blacks and my history is pathetic. I have worked hard and EARNED all that I have not thru some social program to give blacks a leg up nor have I been treated in most cases differently than any white/ any color because I want to “work for a living” I want to keep what I made thru the sweat of my own brow. That has made me a success in my eyes not how much money or fame. Your retort about right propaganda is again since you are so fond of wiki look her up at about ½ way down the page is EUGENICS then after you read it you may again apologize to me for putting your foot in your mouth. OH read the next paragraph about ”race”. And remember I never said she was responsible for Hitler I said He got the IDEA from her. In fact even the wiki article is not accurate. Try reading information on Margret Sanger and the”negro project”, or these;

Daylanne English,”W.E.B. DuBois's Family Crisis”, American Literature 72, no 2 (June 2000) pp 297, 293; Charles Valenza, “was Margret Sanger a racist” Family Planning Perspectives 18, no 1 (Jan-Feb 1985), pp. 44-46.

I could do this all day. I do enjoy you attempts to say I am a “righty” or a “whitey” or an alarmist again I can go thru my library and find book after book after book refuting what you say based on history not opinion or ”foxnews”. You have have again answered your own question that started this discussion. But I may have misspoken, I believe that you WANT to believe these thing as the truth is way to scary to believe. I remember an old saying “ Just cause I think people are out to get me doesn't mean there ain't”. This will be my last response to you on this as all your arguments all boil down to “I know you are but what am I”, unless you have the gumption to read a book, do some research and actually believe someone out there may just may have more information because they don't trust the government to tell the truth. Also your last comment pure falsie, this country is founded on individual freedoms not the collective, get your facts straight, how do I know it's in the Constitution, it states WE THE PEOPLE , it speaks of individual rights and not that of the collective that is what the founders were trying to avoid. I do not think I am better than you just more informed.

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Credence2 4 years ago from Florida (Space Coast) Author

Shannon, I have read plenty of ‘real books’, Wikipedia is a quick and easy reference that helps me get a grip on the myriads of inquiries like yours. Books can have an ideological bias; we both know that, do we not? It all depends on your point of view. Your book may well not be my book. I apologized for the ‘black thing’ it is based on your perspective on this discussion which is one that would not be taken by a black conservatives, many which I have met. NO, what was progressive 100 years ago is may well not be progressive now. Being progressive must include accommodation of change, science fiction for the rightwinger. Democracy is mob rule? What do you suggest as an alternative?

Everybody cannot have what they want, decisions made by the majority are the only way in an imperfect world to proceed, do you take issue with that? Socialism is an economic system, not a political one. Your rightwing GOP buddies use the ‘super majority to thwart a 51/49 majority, so let us not seem so outraged. Communism is an economic system. Hitler and Stalin were both fascists regardless of the labels they used. Fascism is a political system. They were both cut from the same cloth. I am satisfied that the current political climate in the U.S does not smell of fascism despite the endless howling from the political right.

As for religious practices it is conservative fodder to say that the progressive is terrified of the word “God” in the public square. My problem is ‘establishment” of religion, a concept that rightwingers seem to ignore or at least are unaware of. So, yes you are speaking with an intellectual, but I may observe that your rightwing bias is just as telling.

If you don’t trust your Government, who do you trust? the gunslingers of the private sector? What is your alternative, anarchy? I have penned an article entitled “Why do conservatives hate Government” check it out sometime, if you are so inclined

What I saw in the video are snippets from Emmanuel taped in 2006, long before Obama declared his candidacy. I need a credible source, not this johnsreport.com. Surely, you know I going to ask you to verify sources, just as you question my giving any credence to wikipedia, I also know that anyone can post compelling videos on you-tube but that does not necessarily reflect the reality. In Obama’s three and half years, why have I heard nothing about this compulsory service program?

Yes, I expect my government of act on a premise of fairness, and equality is part of that. More death panel stuff, huh, come on… Really, So, who are they coming after? Rather than get into a protracted debate on this complicated topic(ACA), let it suffice if I said I am satisfied with the concept of Obama’s program and am far from convinced that it is the boogey man the rightwinger says that it is.

You said:

I dare you to read the b***, sorry, law. Or the HHS rules that are just being made as we speak. I know you won't liberal/progressives are cowards and will only look at or read what they agree with ( can you say book burning parties).

Funny, that is the same thing we say about you rightwing folks, it all sounds great perhaps that is enough to pay for that cup of coffee.

This is just more rightwing claptrap. Of course, I am against any kind of eugenics or euthanasia, the issue here is woman’s rights to have more control over contraception and sexuality, that is not neither of eugenics nor euthanasia. Well, you have a right to your point of view but seeing that most of US vote the Democratic ticket, It would be presumptive if I were to believe that you have the truth about our history and circumstance while 90% percent of US have it wrong, HARDLY. You will see more evidence of that at the polls next November. Where are your credentials to be taken in such a credible way?

As for your working hard, does that imply that most of the rest of us are mere chopped liver? Join the club, there are many working hard that are losing ground despite that because of the capitalist robber barons that your side says are here to rescue us all, that are, in fact, aggravating the problem. Does not everybody want to keep the rewards of their labor? But who pays for the air traffic controller, the highways, the meat inspectors, the military? We collectively have to pay for these services, as these people also have brows that accumulate sweat…

The role of Sanger in providing assistance to Blacks in birth control area is questionable, Dr ML King and WEB DuBois, neither of whom I would categorize as an Uncle Tom, seemed to have approved of her assistance. Sure Sanger was a racist, weren’t most whites of her era? By today’s standard Abraham Lincoln was a racist. But subtle thinking tends to dismiss absolutes, in favor of relative circumstance, which is not a part of rightwing thought.

You go through your library and I go through mine and I find plenty of books that support my position rather than refute it. Six of one, half dozen of the other? I don’t agree with assessment and we can leave it at that, if you wish. I read enough books, but I may not have read YOUR books which would probably say what it is you want to hear. There are as many opinions on these matters as stars in the heavens, who is to say the rightwinger has got it all figured out? I doubt it. You, the rightwinger and his or her books have the same theme, Am I suppose to trust you? Yes, the Government is not perfect, what is. Again, I ask you for an alternative short of pure anarchy. Yes, I know about individual liberty, but use some common sense; 300 million can’t all do what they want. That is why there is government, laws, ordinances, etc. This is not rocket science, its found in any middle school civics primer. Thanks again for your discourse as for your being better informed that is just matter of a point of view.

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boiledfrogs 4 years ago

Nothing has changed other than Democrats evolving language and doublespeak.

Either Democrats don't believe that blacks are capable or they're using these programs for control/votes. Either way, after decades of "help", what are the results? The Democrats seem to be doing pretty well...blacks as a whole? Not so much unless those government statistics that I read (employment, crime, welfare, unwed mothers, violent crimes) are false.

Barack Obama is Arab American.

'Baraka' (from which Barack came) means 'blessed' in that language. Hussein is also Arabic and so is Obama.

Barack Hussein Obama is not half black. Obama is the first Arab-American President, not the first black President. Barack Hussein Obama is 50% Caucasian from his mother's side and 43.75% Arabic and 6.25% African Negro from his father's side. Although Barack Hussein Obama's father was from Kenya ,his father's family was mainly Arabs. Barack Hussein Obama's father was only 12.5% African Negro and 87.5% Arab (his father's birth certificate states he's Arab, not

African Negro).

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Credence2 4 years ago from Florida (Space Coast) Author

Do you have any source for this information or is it just an unmitigated fabrication?

So why are we to believe that circumstances would be different for the Black community under today's fascist GOP?

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d.william 4 years ago from Somewhere in the south

Interesting bantering in your comments. But i think you are fighting a losing battle trying to convince staunch GOP followers who are totally brainwashed by their limited views that are undoubtedly obtained from Fox News network, or from their own party propaganda.

Color of one's skin has little merit in discussing current politics. You are absolutely correct that both parties have evolved over the years, but those "conservative" narrow minded views are difficult to erase when so deeply engrained by indoctrination and the refusal to move from the last century into the future.

In today's world however, the bottom line is that the GOP represents Corporate America, oppression and repression. These do not sound like very good alternatives for a "free" society. The Democratic party represents the interest of the people, freedom, equality, and progression into a future not held hostage by stagnant and archaic governmental, economic or religious values.

Ex: hanging onto the use of petroleum products for profit instead of moving to sustainable forms of energy (never nuclear - as is evidenced by the disaster in Japan).

There is no other reason for the GOP to be blocking this "progressive" technology than to protect the Corporate American greed mongers' lust for greater net profits, and control over the markets, despite the harm done to the planet, animal life and ultimately human life.

If "Progressive" actions to maintain clean drinking water, safe food supplies, and reduce global pollution is 'fascism' or 'socialism" then we had better start moving in THAT direction after all and the quicker the better.

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Credence2 4 years ago from Florida (Space Coast) Author

Hello, D, thanks for dropping by, nice to see you again and I hope that all is going well.

It is unconscionable to me how the right can maintain a straight face while telling bald face lies. I agree to discuss these matters with anyone who would listen. Regressive, conservative describes a fear of change, even if that change if beneficial, they will resist for resistance sake. Many of my articles talk about the war on middle class, their objective of creating a feudalistic society, where we all have to ‘bow to the lord’ to obtain our daily sustenance and survive. Why else are the rightwingers working so hard to turn working people into slaves, by the dissolving of those rights that distinguish the two. I have spoken about their scorched earth policy of depleting the planets resources for their short term profit instead of advocating the need for environmentally sustainable approaches that would be of benefit to greater numbers.

I will not say that the Dems are perfect. Unfortunately, there is an overriding theme of greed and avarice in our culture that make any form of governance from either side appear pale in comparison. But the GOP is determined to push us all over the precipice with just that much more enthusiasm.

Right now their (GOP) strategy is to BUY the election, with massive advertising assuming that people are dumb enough to respond to this stuff as if they are being sold detergent. The American electorate is fickle and has short memory as to how we found ourselves in the economic morass. Using this game of smoke and mirrors, the enemy just might triumph. This is my greatest fear.

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Charles James 4 years ago from Yorkshire, UK

Excellent hub. Thank you.

Now following you.

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Credence2 4 years ago from Florida (Space Coast) Author

Glad that you enjoyed the article , Charles, thanks for your support!

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rvmadkins 4 years ago

Well this article has some historical significance but... Let me give my two cents. All of my life I have sided with the Democrats without knowing why or understanding their party politics. Why is that? I'll tell you why, because that is just the way the DEM's would have it. They teach us to look at other blacks that stray from the fold as not black but sell outs. Heck, I know I was one of those that said stone them and I would have gladly taken the stoners clothes. But when I look at the reality of this thing siding with the democrats is the worst thing that blacks can and have done. Look at our children, crime, schools, abortions and the condition of our neighborhoods. Dems are responsible for single family homes -cant have husband and get benny's.. Now I challenge you to look at theirs. LOL this is the reason why when we get two nickels to rub together we move into their neighborhood and then-- they move away. Welfare has destroyed more black families than I can shake a stick at. Abortions have killed more black babies than all of the years of slavery combined. Who is the party that is Pro-choice. Why because to some blacks are just property to be disposed of and when the republicans try to say different the DEM's incite us and tell us they are racist because they are taking away your right to choose. Choose what?? Death. Now about the schools the Republicans says, give them vouchers so there children have a fighting chance and what does the dem's say they... the republicans are racists they are saying that your schools are not good enough all the while our children sits incarcerated in dilapidated schools with no books all the while they build new school in their neighborhood. And get this they come with rules to not allow your children to go to them. LOL We have to wake up and realize that we keep empowering our oppressors. In this case that party has told us what they stand for since the beginning but we are so simple that we are trained not to bite the hand that feeds us so we only have two issues politically - that's free housing and welfare. We don't care as long as that is not changed. We need to wake up and realize that some still see you as ignorant slaves and that what you are because the things we do is --- what is it is Ignorant.

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Credence2 4 years ago from Florida (Space Coast) Author

Rvmadkins, We all have to do the heavy lifting due diligence to carefully assess why we take the positions we do on a personal basis and not to just go along by the 'crowd'

I don't have to look at other blacks and their attitudes, I look at the policies, platform and positions taken by the party itself. It tells me all I need to know. I let the GOP tell me who they are and what they represent and decide if that is consistent with my what is best for our tribe and the country and that need not be mutually exclusive.

As for the problems in our community, what does the GOP offer?Self deportation? I will never deny that we have considerable problems among ourselves within our own communities that we must address. The allegiance to any political party is not going to solve these problems. My problems with the GOP is far beyond the racial issue.What is it that the GOP uses smoke and mirrors to disenfranchise voters likely to support their opponents? I have a beef with that for example, that is not working in my best interests.

Yes, there is a social safety net, but blacks are hardly the only ones using it. To say that Dems are responsible for the unraveling of the American family is reaching. How are the democrats responsible for all the social ills that you mention in your comment?

Yes, I am pro-choice and for the existence of welfare among those truly in need with stringent stipulations for its recipients, hardly a give away. Prochoice does not mean pro-abortion. I do not care for the GOP position, foreign policy, military and most social issues, and it has nothing to do with race. No one has led me around by the nose to come to these conclusions after years of careful study and evaluation.

There are many legitimate reasons why abortion should remain available, safe and legal. This issue has nothing to do with racism, it is just a red herring from the right.

I support the public school system and will not abide education based on how much money you have, especially during K-12. We all know that removing the tax base for the public schools will create unfair advantages for the few at the expense of the many. I want public schools that are equally staffed and equipped.

Sorry, in every way that matters the political right, represented by the GOP are the aristocrats whom I can never trust to work in the best interests of all in the middle.

On this you can rely, I know exactly where I stand and why, and would suspect that the vast majority of the black, hispanic and other ethnic groups are aware of the same. You will have to put money on the table to convince us otherwise and the GOP has yet to do this. I have written several articles that go into different aspects of my problems with the 'right'.

Thanks for your comment

My articles concerning the black message to white america touches more upon why we are behind the 'eightball' and where we as group need to improve. Check it out when you get a moment and let me know your thoughts. I see that you are new to hub pages, welcome aboard....

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rvmadkins 4 years ago

You miss-understand I am not a member of the GOP. I am an independent not a republican. This whole thing speaks to the insanity of how we as people think. I see that its just the whole thought process in general. Just as I am not for DEM's you are staunchly for them. I woke up one day and decide why am I still supporting the same system that has done nothing for me or my people. Then I got smart and realized that the goal is not to do anything for me or my people. Then.... I looked at who I was putting in that position. You know Who! I support the public school systems don't get me wrong I dont support the condition of said systems. But oh Yeah welfare has destroyed the black family and rotted the community to the core until there is no community just "hoods". This is because black people have lost the will to get out and get it and we keep welfare (handouts) in the back of our minds. Almost like the analogy of a dog waiting on his master to feed him -- he never grows up and fends for himself. Don't assume that I am uneducated because I am. Have you looked at the latest census findings? Do you see how close most blacks are to poverty? Why is that 65+ percent of black women are single? Why is it that women have more than two million more degrees than men? Why is it that when you turn 65 the ration of women to men is 60/40 respectively? Why is it that there are 10 million grandparents taking care if grandchildren verses 1.4 million grandparents living with there grandchildren? Answer we are going backwards. That's right backwards. I see you are a learned factual person analyze that. I see that you are refusing to look around but one day you will just like I did and guess what I realized, that I have been a slave for 42 years and know I say - "Welcome to Freedom". Now that is a choice that I can live with. Not that other bogus stuff. Those who know better do better and that is a fact. I will look at your other messages and get back to you if needed. From one ex-slave to another come out of that mess and be free and be what you are meant to be. The blind can't lead the blind because they both will fall into a pit. I guess I will never understand why we defend a system and politics that has all but destroyed us. There is a saying about dying from the lack of knowledge and we are dying off astronomically. But before I go I do have a question for you? What is an African American Resident?

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Credence2 4 years ago from Florida (Space Coast) Author

Never meant to imply that you were a GOP advocate.

The Dems are simply in line more with the principles that are important to me, I don't pretend to speak for everyone. But my position has been long considered. I am not so pessimistic as to say that the system has done 'nothing'. While there is not perfection in politics in general anyway, I have to make a selection to keep the bad guys out that clearly have no interest in the matters of concern to me and support the lesser of two evils. Maybe that is another way of saying it.

So instead of gutting the public school system like a voucher program would do maybe we need to repair it. Welfare, combined with the lack of opportunity and any number of factors involved explains why we are where we are. It is not simply the Democratic party, and where does the GOP puts itself as the viable alternative? I don't see it. I wrote the Black America message article to explain to reasonable people why it is more difficult for us to just 'go out and get it" The welfare stuff is just a stereotype, because of education and opportunity deficits most people work several marginal jobs just to survive. I see all the dire statistics as to the state of the black community. I am first to talk about greater self reliance, emphasis on education and the principle of delayed gratification. Is supporting the other party going to help us move forward? They have not shown me in what manner. These are our problems separate from any allegiance to a political party. If we remain slaves it is through our own error not support of the Democrats.

Democrats are interested in the protection of labor and its rights within society, that is certainly one of my issues and a reason why I check their column and not the other party. What is the alternative to the entire system, anarchy? The system is the system and if I am forced to take sides.......

As for the African American resident, that speaks of an American of African descent, just as an Irish America is indicative of his or her place of origin.

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rvmadkins 4 years ago

Ok now I see the wheels are rolling because the more you talk the more I am seeing that you see the issues in our community but yet you still refuse to believe that the DEM's are undermining you. That's ok because I did the same. It is hard to brake away from a support system that you know and are comfortable with. The Democrats is the party of three things, Segregation, Separation, and Secession. Let me speak on something that I did not yesterday. You talked about voter suppression but in reality - what grown BLK man or woman do you know that do not have an ID? I live in the south and I don't know of any. See Propaganda and you fall for it. You spoke of Self Deportation - that does not mean that you will be deported that means that you need to do what you need to do to remain the country legally. If not, you can return to your country of origin on your own. We are you not recognizing that illegal immigration is just that - illegal. You know why because the DEM's want the Latino vote and they told you so and you buy into that. So to heck with the Law, its about power and someone has to be the "New Age Slaves". Fact of the matter is we as blacks will not think for ourselves and we think that someone should be doing something for us. That has gotten us in the situation that we are in now. There are factors that stop everyone from "getting out and getting it". But at the same time people other than us keep doing it. We can't blame race because we keep voting for the Slave master party. So WE ARE DOING this to OURSELVES. Have you ever wondered why we just can't seem to do anything right? For example. if a hat is to be worn to the front we were it to the back, we sit at the back of the bus and the back of class, we wear our pants hanging down, we were tall t-shirts instead of regular ones, we are tatted and marked up and we refuse to be educated we want to be rappers just to name a few. That is why you can't get it (mostly). We are first at doing everything things wrong and there are some people that is counting on you doing that. Those are some of the "factors" that you speak of. Why do the republicans need to put any money on the table when we only give them 10% of our vote? To think otherwise is preposterous and just another handout. Our "African Ancestors" as you call them would be outraged and enraged with us all because of a handouts and shiftlessness. Now you can stay the course but I am sounding the alarm and it is time to abandon ship because in-spite of all that you say the democrats are they not doing anything to help blacks other than welfare. I know this because most of the largest cities are democratic ran and that is were the worst poverty for blacks are yet you still support them and their school systems. It is unbelievable. But even in the slavery days some refused to go free. You know what they said, "Massers been good to us". That is all an fine and dandy until he comes for your children, which he has done. We are the only race that money seems to make us forget all that was lost and sacrificed for us to get ahead and we are squandering it away. What will we do when that stuff goes away? Now about AA. That is a bunch of mess as well because none of the descendants of slaves no where they came from (other than the continent) and who do you think came up with that? Slave Masters, and they do that just to remind you of were you came from. You are not African because if the US expelled you, you would not have a country to go to. You are American but you are stuck on the romanticism of african history. The kings and queens of Africa were not on that boat and nor are they coming back for us. You are on your own and the sooner we realize that the better off we will be. We are Americans and that is de jure not de facto.

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Credence2 4 years ago from Florida (Space Coast) Author

I still say that THEY are not undermining me any more than hispanics or ENLIGHTENED Whites, those that are among the best educated and urbane, Jews, youth vote, younger women, maybe they are all underimined and enslaved, too?.I will shackle up with them anyday before I associate myself with a party that caters to white racism (Sununu comments for example) having a demographic of dying old white southern men... Thank God that I live in the Bluest of Blue states, Hawaii!

The voting id controversy is a different subject that I go into in great detail in "Whose Zoomin' Who, the Voter ID controversy" Unldess you know every black man and women or the status of anyone else for that matter in regard to having identification, your statement is not supported. The GOP will pay for these outrages at the polls. I don't consider news and information from major media outlets discussing this matter to be propaganda, unless you are either a whiteman in darkface or incredibly naïve getting all your news from FOX, you should not be either.

So what is the GOP solution to the education crisis in the big urban centers, make it impossible for these students to receive any sort of education at all by having them priced out of the market?

The self deportation was an example and does not reflect my views on the immigration issue which you would find quite conservative to be honest. The Dems get the votes of Hispanic citizens because they are more in synch with the aspirations of that community. It is the height of arrogance to think that all these majorities are being brainwashed. Your version of the Democratic party amount to three things 19th century, 19th century and 19th century! I am not talking about 100 years ago or even 50 years ago, I am talking about NOW. Believe me, I and millions of others are thinking for themselves and know enough from the GOP record to stay far away from them. I am not apologizing for those among us that consistently fail, but for those of us that have succeeded within this society, we did it all in spite of the GOP and its redneck following and not because of it. If Republicans want my vote, they are going to have to earn it, with policies and platforms that address my concerns. It ain't the other way around. And, if they don't come around in a few years that elephant will become a wooly mammoth (extinct)

The welfare argument is pure rightwing. We compare that with the GOP who does nothing and in fact undermines and attacks the black electorate regularly. I am not supporting that. I and many others who can see the unfortunate trends are doing what is possible to help stem the tide, but embracing the GOP is like drinking a cyanide cocktail.

So, are the Irish americans stuck on the romanticism of Irish history, the Dane, German, Greek? Most of us have an ancesteral point of origin, only the rightwinger uses that to infer that blacks do not value their American citizenship.

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rvmadkins 4 years ago

In spite of our differences I really enjoy the healthy debate. But as I said all the way up until recently I have supported the DEM's until I tried to change the schools that my child goes to and I ran into the blue wall. None of the black DEM's on the board lifted a finger to help me all they could say was "Dem's the rules". LOL BTW, I used to live in your bluest of blues and I know that life is not a bucket of roses for a BLK person there or at least it wasn't when I was there. In that state there are no black hoods like they are here. There is a lot of money to be made on tourism etc. Isn't it ironic that the pro-slavery party is the majority party there? Man if only you could see that. I have a friends that told me that the state of Hawaii considered them wards of the state for the longest. King Kam would be rolling in his grave all the way down Kam Highway. I really do understand your position you do make some valid points and there are good Democrats but the system as a whole just isn't there and we keep giving them passes. But I still have to ask myself - no matter what I do I vote for these same people and things dont seem to change. That's because like I said we only have two issues - Housing and Welfare. Oh Yeah, no Democrats campaigned in my neighborhood you know why because they already know that blacks vote democrate. The only thing I saw was some blue donkey signs. LOL . See the problem with blacks is that they don't research who (or what) it is the they vote for because if they did they would change their stance. I challenge you to take an objective look at their policies and take welfare off the table and tell me who you would vote for. Living in HI you don't see the messed up schools and the broken spirits that I see but like I said they are building new schools in their neighborhoods or they buss their kids to better schools and trap our kids in old ones. Education is the key to success and our kids are not getting one (they are graduated but not educated) but we keep voting for the DEMs and our children are paying the cost as they are reduced to servitude. Just one more thing in these large Democratic cities why are the Laws disproportionally locking up black men? The Dem that you vote for would rather lock you up than educate you why because prisons are big business and you are just property. All of that is by design it isn't a mistake that where ever there is a large concentration of blacks the DEM old slave masters are there doing what they do and they are good at it I might add. So we can agree to disagree but as I have said life is good for you but your african descendants will pay the price. So we need to get educated and vote for the best candidate and not along the party lines. I went to vote and I did not even know who the DEMs were on the ticket. Why, because they don't campaign in our neighborhoods because the just assume that we would vote for them...

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Credence2 4 years ago from Florida (Space Coast) Author

Hello, RV, I guess I am open to reasoned debate with all comers.

It is hard for me to pass judgement on your situation with the school board without knowing more.

I have writen several articles about life here in Hawaii, the good, the bad and sometimes the ugly as well. It is relatively peaceful and when there is crime and violence it is far more rare and never seems to rise to level found on cities in the Mainland. The state has a social safety net which, to my dismay, is more like a hammock. Probably the most generous with benefits and such than any other state in the union. There are not enough blacks living here to have "a hood". You have your poor here, but they live from the social safety net and the climate making it easy to get along with less. Because of the recession, tourism has taken a dip, but recently seems to be returning to pre-2008 levels. Democrats are successful here because of social program policies in a state where there is a strong sense of community. You speak of a general disatisfaction with the system, yes it is currently quite corrupt.

But when I advocate taking the money out of politics and political campaigns who is it that is the most resistant? The Republicans! I may be just an ant trying to stop a speeding freight train, but my vote, sharing my perspective with the electorate is better than doing nothing and compliaining or worse supporting the other side who want to accelerate undesirable trends, and resist advantageous approaches within American society.

RV, as this election is close and resources not always plentiful, each political party particularely in the national contest must put it resources where they can make it more likely that they could win. For that reason, I do not expect Obama to spend much time campaigning here or Mitt Romney going to Utah for the same reason.

Rising to your challenge, if welfare was not on the table I would still support the democrats. I am not a 'one trick pony". I take issues with the other side on their approach to taxes and the budget, emphasis on the defense spending, almost all social issues, the environment, the extent of government regulation within the economy, foreign policy, you name it. The DEMS position on these things are simply more in line with how I see things.

Schools and education are always important, I would rather go with the Dems who have as part of the platform the desire to invest in education and our young people knowing that our prosperity into the future may well depend on how productive they have the opportunity to become. If equal resources were provided to all schools in urban public school system we would not need to bus people around. I am not interested in racial balance as I am interested in equal education regardless of what school is attended.

The problems of education deficit within the black community is far more complex than just the fact that blacks support democrats. I was involved in forced busing as a high school student. Denver did not have a lot of the problems of urban school systems back east. The experience was more of a cultural exchange than an escape from a bad school to a better one.

My life and that of my descendents are well considered when we all know who is the greatest impediment between the two parties to progress. If the DEMS are bad than the GOP is 10 times worse.There is a tendency for the GOP to support laws and ordinances on the books that can be seen as disadvantageous to blacks and minorities and to the poor in general. Most of the blacks that I know have been and remain well aware of these things. Who are the GOP base, the hypocritical religious right, racially resentful white southern men, Thurston Howell and friends, do I have anything in common with their supporters?

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Jmiller17 4 years ago from Marietta, Georgia


I totally get and agree that the GOP needs to communicate to the black community on how the GOP principles help them. But could you humor me and explain how Democrats have helped the black population in the last 30 years?

More specifically, the blacks have voted near unanimous for the Democratic party for a generation, but they still lack far behind in economic success, educational levels, and power in jobs, and they still have some of the highest rates of crime, imprisonment, drug use, and make up a large proportion of those on foodstamps and welfare. How has voting democratic helped them? I would really appreciate your answer and insight on this.

Charles James profile image

Charles James 4 years ago from Yorkshire, UK

The psychological importance of a Black President is tremendous. I am old enough to remember when many Black citizens in the USA could not vote. To go from that position to having a Black President in one lifetime is fantastic.

The Democrats are better at creating jobs than the Republicans. The Democrats are better at funding education than the Republicans. The Democrats give more help and take less money from the poor than the Republicans.

What more would you like to see?

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Jmiller17 4 years ago from Marietta, Georgia

@Charles James What I would like to see is results. I understand the psychological impact of a black President as well as what the Democratic Party has done for blacks in terms of civil rights, i understand the loyalty. But if the Democrats are so good at doing all this stuff, and all of this stuff should "help" blacks and the blacks have voted democratic so strongly for so many years, why are they among the worst economic demographics in the USA and have seen really no improvement over the last 30 years, especially in side by side comparisons with whites? That is my point. Where are the results the democratic party keeps promising the black population?

Charles James profile image

Charles James 4 years ago from Yorkshire, UK

The vast majority of American blacks started off after the Civil War with only the clothes they stood up in and with poor education. They faced and face discrimination and disadvantage.

It is very difficult to do well in a race if your feet are set in concrete.

What do you suggest should be done today?

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Jmiller17 4 years ago from Marietta, Georgia

Woman were also denied jobs and education for a long period of time, but they are making better progress then the african-american population. There is no easy answer. I might write a hub about it, but in short it will take a huge shift in social factors to help.

The family structure in the African-american community is far lacking, with many many single moms, a great deal of them on drugs and getting involved with gangs. This leads to struggles in education and thus struggles in economics. The democrats are great at keeping them afloat with EBT food-stamps, welfare, and low-income housing, but my question, which is still unanswered, is how are these policies helping them in the long run?

Its been roughly 150 years since the blacks were freed and 40-50 since the civil rights act. How much longer will they be left behind? How much longer should they accept being left behind before its ok to challenge the democratic policies that they think help them?

Credence2 profile image

Credence2 4 years ago from Florida (Space Coast) Author

Hi, JM, I am tickled pink that you and Charles are having such stimulating discourse on this subject, my mouth waters to add my two cents worth!

Rather than focusing on blacks as to why the Democrats are preferred, we should look at the party ideologies and see which ones are more receptive.

For example in the area of labor, blacks are generally poorer within this culture and certainly are going to favor the party that is going to look to the rights of labor rather than the interests of corporate management.

While the status quo is not great, open hostility by the GOP toward blacks and minorities is not going to provide me or anyone with a viable alternative to the Democrats. How many times have the courts nailed the GOP for attempts to not only voter id to supress minority participation, but actually trying to restrict the times available to vote prior to election day, a GOP rep in Florida confessed what the intent was in Fla and Ohio.

Any political party whose emphasis politically was on the needs of working people is going to naturally attract the allegiance of our group in greater numbers.

I explain in detail 'how we all got here' in



The answer is more than can be provided in a comment, I think that I explain it better in these hubs

Credence2 profile image

Credence2 4 years ago from Florida (Space Coast) Author

Hi, Charles, yes indeed, the possibility of a Black candidate taken seriously and a Black President certainly is inspiring and can easily account for the greater Black turnout, and the slightly elevated percentage that voted for Mr. Obama.

Many of us see the GOP as the party of the bourgeoisie and the Dems as the party of the proletariat, simplistic mind you, but if you had a choice between one or the other and you are proletariat, who would you vote for and consider as taking your concerns seriously? The GOP are not seen as friends of the poor and disadvantaged, which, percentage wise, includes a larger portion of our group than that of society in general. This assessment of the GOP may well need to be reconsidered, but this is the perception we have of them and they will need to work hard to change that perception.

Credence2 profile image

Credence2 4 years ago from Florida (Space Coast) Author

JM, It is just that the terrible statistics associated with our group is not the fault of the Democrats or even the GOP, we have our own problems within our community that transcends party loyalty and affiliation.

Let us just say that the Dems have been less resistant to the kinds of changes, holding a position in our society that facilitate those among us that wish to move forward in life.

Credence2 profile image

Credence2 4 years ago from Florida (Space Coast) Author

Charles, your point about Blacks and the status since the American Civil War is well taken. I touch on some these structural, institutional race issues here in


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