Catalonia independence?

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   Marcus Faberposted 11 years ago

   Catalonia independence?
   
   Yesterday saw 1.5 million Catalans march for independence from Spain, and with Scotland holding an independence referendum in 2014 will we see two new states emerge in Europe? What will be the implications for Quebec?
   
   

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   Mr. Happyposted 11 years ago

   I don't know about Scotland but Quebec is not separating because there just isn't the will for that. Sure, there are some people who regard themselves as separatists but overall, most people are not in favor of such political moves. And this can be seen in the result of the election that just passed. The PQ (Party Quebecois) did not achieve a majority thus, the separation agenda has no mandate ... Et ca c'est tout, mes amis! : )

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      teresapelkaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      I am not sure if Quebec would have the same linguistic rationale as independent language communities. There is France. More, those have been English Canadians to stir 'a little', forcing English. There might be no issue, if this practice goes.

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   jantamayaposted 11 years ago

   I don't think so that it is a good idea... It makes things only more complicated. However, when Catalans would do a referendum and would win it, why not? In this case, we would have to learn more about a new (old?) nation.

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   MJFennposted 11 years ago

   Then the question  arises: which part of Catalonia? The Valencian dialect is similar to Catalonian, and then there are the Balearic Islands, and many issues associated with them. (Interestingly, Majorca, in the Middle Ages a separate kingdom, had its capital at one time in Perpignan, France, where the Palace of the Kings of Majorca may still be seen.) Roussillon, traditionally Catalan-speaking, has been part of France since the 17th century. Also, the nearby Principality of Andorra is mainly Catalan-speaking. So the question arises: why sweepingly apply ethnolinguistic assumptions to what protesters in the street say they want? because, if applied indiscriminately, it can lead to lots more problems than whatever it is that the street protesters may claim is a problem now.
   
   (Addendum: Even Sardinia, Italy, has had a Catalan-speaking area.)

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   S Leretsehposted 11 years ago

   I wrote a hub on what constitutes a society.  Within the geographic area of the Dominant Male Group, any male group that forms, be it racial, linguistic, religious, or along the lines of cultural mores  (differences from the Dominate group may be slight, but grounded in historic issues) , and the subordinate group believes their numbers are sufficient enough to demand and get self determination from the Dominant Group, THEY"RE GOING TO DO IT. It's human nature...
   
   There is one & only one exception in human history to the above maxim: people of African decent in America.  Curiously, they have never demanded self-determination.  They are certainly owed it.

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      teresapelkaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Dominance is not prevalence; prevalence might be dominance - but then, think about prevalence, again

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   in4mativeposted 11 years ago

   Quickly after all the national pride and passion, there must follow a firm grip on reality. The new nation must be able to stand on its own feet.
   With reference to Scotland I believe that bid is based partly on a Scottish need to pull England's tail, and also on the First Minister's need to be a bigger fish.
   I believe most Scots are much too canny to make a bad choice.

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      teresapelkaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      England wouldn't put much in your pot - it would try to and often take; you know you could be better off.
      
      More, the British military installations don't make Scotland a better place.
      
      I don't think this would be about big or small fish.

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      MJFennposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      According to the Barnett Formula, used for decades, a greater proportion of UK taxpayer money actually goes to Scotland than England.

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      teresapelkaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      @MJ Fenn, Here you go - the greatest undiscovered economic miracle on this planet - England. Probably, a still greater proportion goes for Australia and Canada. Wales and Cornwall have to live of the leftovers...

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7. 79

   teresapelkaposted 11 years ago

   Language is important; sometimes more than history, pseudo-allegiance, and political illusion. See Basque Catalonian and Catalan - which is wrong, how have they become?
   
   I think granting freedom to language environments willing to become independent can be the future of Europe.
   
   I don't think there would be any argument against, unless political - hence, not economic and thoughtful.
   
   Scotland versus England have been a long chapter. Obviously, the British wouldn't be happy with their king's might able to go from Essex and Sussex an' back.
   
   The Scottish have always wanted independence from England. They should be free.

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   1. 79

      teresapelkaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      I'm staying in Ireland now. I really don't comprehend, understand, and see why this should be so long for Ireland to become one country.

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      MJFennposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Define 'free'.
      
      PS: All the major parties in Northern Ireland and the Republic are signed up for the present constitutional arrangements. Given the bloodletting in even the recent past, how would your proposed solution in Ireland work preferably?

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      teresapelkaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      @MJ Fenn, Simplistic or not, I'd simply see Ireland unite. The internal problems would be milder without the division factor. Legal issues over activity could be discerned under the legislation of united Ireland.

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      MJFennposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      teresapelka: You might wish to look up Northern Ireland Troubles on the Web. Even the Republic of Ireland has removed Irish unity without the agreement of Northern Ireland from its Constitution.

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      teresapelkaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      @MJ Fenn, I do not mean forced solutions. There's a referendum scheduled for 2016, I think. There are factions to oppose unification, yet they do not have allegiance for Ireland as well as any majority in the country, the North included.

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      MJFennposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      teresapelka: Of course, you may express what you wish. Opinions abound. A demographic and historical fact, which would not be hard to find out is that there has up to now not been a majority in Northern Ireland in favour of uniting with the Republic.

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      teresapelkaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      @MJ Fenn, what would be your sources, specifically?

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      MJFennposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      teresapelka: For example, look up on any easily accessible Online source such as wikipedia 'Northern Ireland' and 'Troubles', and 'Constitution of Ireland' and 'Articles 2 and 3'. There are of course lots of widely divergent opinions about it all.

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      teresapelkaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      @MJ Fenn, you wouldn't have any specific contemporary sources, therefore? It's 2012 and your reference to the Troubles is no referendum.

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       MJFennposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       terespelka: If you look at an Online encyclopedia article such as 'Politics of Northern Ireland', subsection 'Views on the Union' surveys, updated to 2010; from NI Life & Times on Long Term Policy for Northern Ireland,: little change over many ye

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       teresapelkaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       @MJ Fenn, I meant 2012 opinion polls and surveys; if you'd care, I've written my hub, the boxes here are too small, as your answer also shows
       
       http://teresapelka.hubpages.com/hub/Peo … d-autonomy

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       MJFennposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       teresapelka: If you have seen polls results from 2012 as well as from 2012, that's good. I suppose my point is also, be aware also of history. People of Irish Republican outlook often tend to have a strong, historical awareness.

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       teresapelkaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       @MJ Fenn, I'm not denying historical awareness to any Irish faction; probably, you say 'Northern Ireland' and not 'overseas England', for example, owing to contemporary as well as historical identification.

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   mio cidposted 11 years ago

   The posibility of catalonia seceding from spain would be like  texas seceding from the US.

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      teresapelkaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      There is Basque. There is no Texan.

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      MJFennposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Interestingly, the historic Basque area includes a part of south-west France, as well as northern Spain. There are various dialects of the Basque language, and not all people in the wider Basque area speak any one of those dialects.

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   Nick Hanlonposted 11 years ago

   Interesting.I'm skeptical because these state would then have to pay 100% of theor own budget after independence.In the months leading up to the referendum people will realize this.

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      teresapelkaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      The supra-structure takes, it does not cash in. Why make states to incorporate territories - to dispense cash?

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