With tougher immigration laws being enacted in Georgia and Alabama those states are seeing a rapid decline in illegal immigrant labor because of this crops are being left unharvested and farmers are starting to abandon their farms, the farmers cannot afford to pay American living wages and without the cheap labor many are making it clear that their business will no longer be profitable and they will cease to operate, many say they already regret their support of anti immigration bills, the economic cost to these states is likely to be very high.
http://www.theatlantic.com/business/arc … ps/240774/
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/oc … aw-workers
I live in Oregon...we've got extras...we could ship some out to Ga and Al, but they won't be there till next week.
I don't doubt what you're saying, but when two of my sons-in-law were unemployed, they tried to get jobs on local farms and were unable to do so. BTW, both guys are young, fit, and strong. We have a lot of farmers here in South GA, and I don't know of any who are having trouble finding workers. If you visit our Walmart on any given Sunday, you'll see school buses full of alien farm workers. Whether they're legal or not, I have no idea.
Josak is listening to propaganda...a word that has fallen out of use.
I know, as I explained it's not so much that people don't want to work in those jobs but that the farmers cannot pay American minimum wage/living wage and still turn a profit so American workers are actually no good to them.
Uh, no. The source material is how farmers need 11,000 workers for the season.
6300 of the jobs average $8/hr. 3200 of the jobs average $10/hr.
It's not about how they were paying less than minimum wage to illegals. It's that they can't find enough workers who will accept $8-$10/hr.
From the Atlantic Business article:
"It goes like this. If you're not going to let illegal immigrants do the jobs they are currently being hired to do, then farmers will have to raise wages to replace them. Since farmers are taking a risk in hiring immigrant workers, you can bet they were getting a significant deal on wage costs relative to "market wages". I put market wages here in quotations, because it's quite possible that the wages required to get workers to do the job are so high that it's no longer profitable for farmers to plant the crops in the first place. The simple labor market supply and demand curves below illustrate exactly what I'm talking about. "
The Atlantic article is just a report on another article
http://blogs.ajc.com/jay-bookman-blog/2 … s-planned/
that cites a study by Agriculture Commissioner Gary Black.
The issue is that the farmers aren't getting enough workers at $8-$10/hour.
Your claim that " the farmers cannot pay American minimum wage" is unsubstantiated and refuted by your own source.
That being said, you will naturally ignore this fact and try to change the focus of the argument.
Oh come on, don't be so naive and learn to read between the lines, it's a public survey, how many farmers are going to admit that their business is not profitable if they don't hire illegals when that proves that they were hiring illegals before?
You said the issue was that the farmers couldn't pay minimum wage. The study says they are offering $8-$10/hr. You were wrong.
Of course, if your source says the opposite of what you claim, the best course of action is to call the person who points it out something from your bag-o-names.
It seems that the real issue is there aren't enough workers in the area, or there aren't enough workers willing to accept $8-$10/hr. Not, however, as you claimed, that the farmers can't pay minimum wage.
Think about it.
These crops are already planted and there are no illegals so obviously the farmers are looking for people to pick them to minimize losses, just because they are looking for non below minimum wage workers to pick the produce that has already been planted and matured does not mean they can afford to do it and still turn a profit does it? They may well be simply minimizing their losses.
Can I prove it? No, no more than you can prove it's not the case, but it seems reasonable and it was the opinion of the Atlantic article author also. I do know many of the farmers would be loath to admit they had been hiring illegals.
Josak, I would suggest if you want to use an article or study to back up your point, you should agree with it. You can't prove it, it's just theorizing.
I, for one, help my dad with his work(because he won't freaking retire, 70 years old and he can't stop travelling all over the western US to consult fruit growers), and have seen thousands of legal, minimum-wage or above workers, and the growers can afford to pay them.
But what's the point? If I point out how your own source disagrees with you, you just turn to what's 'between the lines'...
I absolutely do agree with what I posted, in fact I already quoted the author of one of those articles making exactly the same point. Is there data to prove it? No but logic would suggest it's strong possibility.
Obviously just because some areas can do it does not mean others can.
Yes, I know. You quoted a person who used an article as reference which mentioned a study that showed that farmers have thousands of positions to fill at $8-$10/hr.
When in doubt, go with the primary source.
Great now those jobs we were waiting for the kids getting out of college and the veterans should be easier to fill now.
Considering the number of jobs destroyed by Obama and te 50% unemployment rate among college graduates, what else do they have tolook forward to, hand outs?
Move to China where Romney sent their jobs. Opps the wages are less in China. America always loves slave labor.
maybe we can trade jobs for bonds - since China is holding an ever increasing amount of Obama's debt. How many jobs did Romney send over seas(acording to the source of all wisom, Obama)? Or is that just rhetoric?
Who knows it seems to be a bit murky now. What do you expect from a money generated political system. Quick, hide the money! Hide the money!
2000 post dot com bubble, the US debt was 250 million
2001-2008 the debt reached a staggering 3 trillion, thanks to 3 wars and some messed up greed in the housing and bank sector.
2009 Obama entered office and was forced to push the housing and economic stimulus, which the banks ate anyway, as a snack.
So, How is it Obama's debt? You know, they did the same thing to Hoover less than 85 years ago.
PS, Japan is presently holding more US debt than China. But they are the two top countries carrying debt paper for the US, yes.
Obama , as a Senator, was all about massive bank bailouts - Countrywide was a big contributor. Since he has been about giant spending launching the national debt above GDP by the time he leaves office - without ever getting a budget to pass - even when he controlled all the government. Brilliant.
Ok then.....so keep rooting for those unions who will insure that minimum wage keeps getting pushed higher.
American left....THIS IS YOUR FAULT.
The minimum wage is painfully low as it is, I am not sure if you can see this image well but it shows that in the cheapest rent state one still has to work for 65 hours at minimum wage to rent a two bedroom apartment/flat at fair market price in many states it is more than 80 hours which means two people working full time could not afford rent let alone feeding their kids etc.
High minimum wage is not the problem, the issue is that we have a labor source capable of surviving on low wages because the money will be worth much more across the border and those a valuable asset, minimum wage is way too low, as we can see it is nowhere near a living wage.
Why is it our responsibility to provide income to a different nation?
Did I say it was? I was just listing one of the many ways illegal labor helps this country. Indeed a recent survey of leading economists showed the vast majority believed illegals were beneficial for the US economy. I am not a leading economist but I agree entirely with the expertise I do have.
How much money do the illegals take OUT of this country and what is their cost in terms of food, clothing, health care, etc. that is the bill tax payers have to foot?
The illegals are a net positive for the US economy,always have been ,and are now that is the reason why there has never been a massive deportation of illegals, there has always been a sensible solution to their situation, believe me, if the reality was that they are a burden to the us economy as the xenophobes and the bigots claim there would be not a single illegal alien in this country
I have to agree with JSChams on this one minimum wage basically says that if your labor isn't worth say $8 an hour, then your prohibited from working at all.
Estimates conclude that the situation will get even worse as those illegals who stayed are deported all but eliminating the labor source.
This is interesting stuff. Of course some will deny it outright and say that local people cannot still find jobs. The real issue is whether there are sufficient safeguards to ensure that nobody is allowed to pay below the minimum wage. Incidentally the people who are most likely to hate any form of immigration are the ones that resist the implementation of a minimum wage. They also tend to favor policies that help the rich. That is the conundrum that we face in the modern world.
I wonder how much more money would be available for these farmers if their present and their future wasn't burdened with EPA insanity and the incredibly high cost of fuel. It is absurd that a nation with an estimated oil reserve in excess of a trillion barrels, 300 years worth of coal and natural gas and the best nuclear scientists, engineers and industry in the world should pay so much for energy. But isn't that the goal of the environ"mentals" - take us all back to the horse and buggy?
I have 3 good friends in Georgia who agree with you Josak... they call the laws the 'i hate latinos' laws... they are hurting the economy.
Whatever. Just some Millionaire Farmers griping and complaining. Hundred and fifty years ago they whined they would go under without their slaves. Eighty years ago they said they'd go under without sharecroppers. Then they whined about minimum wage for the past five decades; now they cry about how they need illegals. It's all BS and I know it.
Those racists are going under for not wanting to hire black people or their fellow Americans. They want workers who they can abuse and cheat, as they have always done. They can go out of business for all I care.
...and it begins, the reality of US Economics.
"Illegal workers" make up 1/3 of the US labor force, from Agriculture, Viticulture to Restaurants, Toothpaste Assembly line workers, Construction, Fashion, you name it.
Once the "No Illegals" takes effect, fully, the prices on everything are going to double, even triple, because production is going to come to a near stop...
Plain and simple, if they cannot afford to pay a minimum wage to American workers, then they shouldn't be in business in the first place.
Well that works out well because minimum wages has driven people out of business and destroyed jobs - a win/win.
I wrote a hub about it, there is no reason strong enough for illegal aliens to remain in a state that they're persecuted and maligned , there are fifty states and only a handful are governed by the xenophobes racists and bigots, they should all pack up and leave and just as they left their native country move to a state were they won't be harrassed ,which there are plenty.
As long as they do so through the proper channels.
It's awfully nice of you to automatically call anybody who opposes illegal immigration a xenophobe, racist, and/or bigot.
Question: Does that apply to people in other countries who don't like illegal immigrants and have laws against them, or just to people in the US?
That applies to anybody in any country who is a bigot a xenophobe and a racist. I'm a US citizen and live in the US so I opine on the situation here.
You seem to automatically call anyone who calls for enforcement of immigration laws a bigot/xenophobe/racist. I'm asking if that is what you meant.
I support enforcing our immigration laws, so am I one of those or all of those?
Every country in the world seeks to control its border. However since states are artificial constructs and this land was taken "illegally" from the indians, I see your point.
This would be true.
Artificial constructs? Really?
Really and who did they take it from?
States only exists in our minds. 1855 people in the South thought they were part of the United States, in 1861 they thought they were part of the Confederacy.
I guess saber tooth tigers and wooly mammoths.
Really? So my State of Massachusetts doesn't have a border line where it ends and another State begins.
Do you enjoy living in the past?
I meant the nation state.
Another example is Panama, they just broke off from Colombia to build the canal.
I keep looking for "state" molecules - just can't find them anywhere. Maybe Cern should look for them next. The idea that something is a social construct stymies some people. It is not a negative that something is a social construct. That idea is an out growth of societal mechanisms as well. Sociology blows peoples minds.
Why aren't these famers being hailed as JOB CREATORS?
Why aren't they being shown as the models of IN-SOURCING they are?
They have work that had been peformed by non-citizens. Might just as well have been in India for all the good these farm labor jobs actually did for JOBLESS AMERICAN CITIZENS.
Now there are JOBS being offered to legal, naturalized AMERICAN citizens.
Seriously, I'm waiting for one or the other party to pounce and spin this into a PR coup.
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