No matter how much people argue they never come to the same conclusion.
The same facts are interpreted in different ways.
People can't convince each other because being a man of the left or the right, is not based on empirical evidence and logical deductions, but value judgements and sacred texts (Das Kapital, Mein Kampf, etc).
In this very forum you can see threads that go on and on, and not one person ever changes their mind.
Scientists don't argue over gravity and evolution, those issues are settled, but politics isn't science. There's a reason one is told not to discuss politics and religion, they are quite similar indeed.
I've changed my mind a few times, and changed other people's minds a few times.
But I agree, mostly it's about trying to justify your own position, rather than opening up to new viewpoints.
Simply not true, on both counts. I am an opinionated guy but I have had my mind changed in discussions here on hub pages on many things, from nuclear power to certain aspects of gun rights to the findings of international bodies etc. sure there are people with closed minds but most are not and even when no ones mind is changed both parties walk away knowing more about the other side, understanding them better and with a better chance of seeing them as something other than a human caricature always a good thing.
As for ideologies being articles of faith, that too is not true for most, the simplest evidence of the fact is the variation one will find within a certain person on their left and right political range, to use myself as an example again I am a very strong leftist and have been for about 50 years but I agree with conservatives on a lot, I am pro guns, I believe abortion is immoral, I believe that under no circumstances should w give to those who don't work etc. etc., politics is the realm of facts and questioned morality, though sometimes those facts are hard to find and distinguish, I am a socialist in large part because I am an economist and moral stances when not tied by religion are based on questioning what is the greater good in stark contrast to faith which depends on blind obedience the truth is you won't find very many communists who agree with everything in Das Kapital (in Marxist theory there isn't even a state) and the same goes for other ideologies too, while sacred texts are usually the unquestionable word of god political texts are written by mere men, often very flawed men and their writings are up for interpretation.
"moral stances when not tied by religion are based on questioning what is the greater good"
how would one measure the "goodness" of policies?
Have you been working on utilitarian calculus?
Josak we've had our battles and I have never convinced you of anything, and you likewise.
You talk a lot about equality, yet that is just your preference, you assume its a worthy goal. I don't like the idea of being equal, and you can't change my tastes, with arguments.
And of course I don't expect to convince you with what I've just said.
Yes I am utilitarian I firmly believe that the right course is the greatest good for the greatest number but you and i have had no battles, not yet anyhow
I don't assume equality is a worthy goal I assert it by logic and by that utilitarian morality mentioned earlier, I think that all are born equal deserving of equal treatment because that is the path that brings greatest good and happiness, when there is inequality it inevitably favors some while harming others which in turn causes resentment and inevitably violence, inequality is both practically and morally repugnant but that is an opinion based on fact and past evidence, one doesn't have to look far to see the result of one group lording over another, be it slavery and the misery, violence and death that caused or the Nazi belief that some were worth less than others because of their blood or the rule of mad kings who oppressed their people believing they had a divine right to rule. I assume nothing.
I don't know what you mean when you say "I don't like the idea of being equal" because that can mean many things, so I won't judge the statement from ignorance but I would appreciate it if you elaborated.
Life is faith based. So anything that is thought or action is taken is done with faith.
Ideologies are thought based. It starts with an idea. Whether or not that idea is rational or irrational and/or whether or not it's an ego or conscience driven idea, which will help in determining the faith based idea(thought) is what matters.
Ideologies will have a starting point and an end point. Each will evolve over time. Any ideology that doesn't change isn't rational because Life is ever changing, which means everything evolves.
If you live in a specific manner, then you live in stagnation. To constantly remain as you are is damaging to you and others around you. If you're not striving to be better than you are presently, then again you will stagnate, which will cause you have no explanation for why things don't seem to change.
It's the individual person who has to be the change in their own life. To live life with complete understanding of self and what truly matters with regards to living in the every growing and ever changing world.
If you look at the people in this forum that still think GE got a tax refund last year, you can see people who aren't open to the truth unless it already agrees with their opinion.
Some beliefs are based on facts, facts that are checked and verified. Some aren't. To pretend they are the same thing is ridiculous. Religion uses a method of investigations and scientists constantly disprove their and other's conclusions. You post shows your ignorance of science and belief.
I have changed my mind on quite a few important issues, based upon listening to or reading reasoned arguments supported by facts. I used to support the death penalty; now I don't. I used to be pro-life; now I am pro-choice.
I read Atlas Shrugged when I was 13 and swallowed Rand's philosophy whole. I started reading it again when I was 18 and couldn't finish it because it was so dumb.
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