I'm going to start off by saying that I have been name-called TWICE in the past 24 hours by people (who I have known for several years) over my sharing a difference in political opinion.
I will try to keep this short, but I tend to vote independently. I don't have a concrete affinity to either the Democratic or the Republican party. I happen to live in a very Liberal part of the country, and thus, many of my friends here are Democratic. I share some beliefs with them, however, I do share in many of the issues that Republicans are concerned with.
I shared my thoughts on these things, and instead of it opening discussion, I was called "ignorant" by both people. The first was on the "Student Loan Forgiveness Act" and the second was on the "Affordable Care Act." My concerns were that it would raise taxes and expenses for the working class, blah blah blah...
And I was called "ignorant" by people I have known for years. These aren't random people on internet forums; I'm talking about people I see and go out with regularly. Friends. And every time a big election comes around, there seems to be some huge divide within my group of friends that was never there before.
I am sure the same thing occures in primarily Conservative areas, as well.
So I ask: Is it possible to to have political discussions without all the hate?
It's when you see things like political ads calling out Romney on his Christian/Mormon/whatever beliefs, or all the hooh-hah in 08 about Obama not being born in the states, or how about all the political signage you see people ripping out of yards? It is as though they think hate and discontent will make people change their minds on where they stand politically.
Each person have his/her political opinion. That should be respected and encouraged. Different discourses regarding politics should be openly discussed without any type of mudslinging. Mudslinging is totally unconscionable behavior which belongs at the elementary level. Mature adults can disagree on politics without reverting to adolescent melodramatics and histrionics. Live and let others live! People should not be divided over politics. All of us are ONE!
Ignorant just means "lack of knowledge." It is like saying someone is uninformed, or holds vast misconceptions about an issue or a policy.
Without knowing exactly what you said, it's hard to know the context of why you were called ignorant. I have relatives who are against gay marriage, and they are homophobic bigots. But if you were expressing a real concern then they were wrong to say that.
Hatred is now a family value. Just tune into your favorite hate news station, or listen to Representative West or Bachman. We can credit Limbaugh with putting hatred and the conspiracy theory together in one package. But now its cool to hate Muslims. People don't want to talk to me when they learn I'm a Jew. And they hate me when I ponder out loud whether Jesus was a Jew?
I got a death treat last week simply for discussing the Republican Party plans for a war against Iran coming about next July.
I don't see the so called progressives overtly espousing hatred. They do it instead with their arguments that, like your said, end with saying, "You're crazy." What is that? My way or the highway? What progressives pretend not to hate, some conservatives seem to be proud of their hatred.
I'm glad you brought up your experience. I've been turned away from homes where I was once welcome. The intenity of the hatred increases as the middle class fights amongst itself over the few remaining American entitlements: like pensions, health insurance, jobs, home ownership, cars.
The hate media keeps the Obama is a Kenya Musim thing going and the fear of Muslims terrorists just increases. That's one reason why it's cool to hate Muslims. Can you image America is going down this way, falling apart from within?
You have to understand that first:
You are called a name such as ignorant or whatever other scathing epitaph in order to try and nudge or beat you back into what is considered the "proper" or "critical" way of thinking.
Secondly" The most common tactic is either to label disagreement as hate speech or in the case of the President..racism. Any or all disagreement will be labeled under those two headings. The racism deal was actually started when a person either in the press or an adviser remarked that the only way one would not vote for Barack Obama was due to racism.
These tactics may be used by either party but most strenuously by the liberals.
You need to be reeducated you know.
Maybe so, however, I do consider these statements to be rather hateful:
From a Democratic friend: "You are ignorant, ill-informed, and have an every-man-for-himself mentality. Please do not talk to me about this again, or we cannot be friends."
From a Republican friend: "If a woman gets raped, and then gets pregnant, the baby was meant to be there. You are not pro-choice. You are either pro-life, or pro-DEATH."
And I don't understand why people think these tactics would make me want to magically change my mind and come to their side. I agree with you, that there is definitely a lot of this crap from liberals (the CFA boycott was the most absurd thing I have heard in a while), but it's from conservatives, as well. I get the same "I'm right, you're wrong, so I'm going to be condescending to you" crap from either side.
It's only possible to have a rational discussion about politics when both parties are interested in having a discussion, instead of proving themselves right.
I get called names all the time(more on other forums than here, but people here call me a schill every once in a while).
I don't think politics will change any time soon... it's more of a sport venue, with fans of each team cheering on their team and hoping the other QB suffers an injury.
Is it really hate? or is it just people not wanting to believe something or to look at an issue from all angles. Most of the time people insult one another because they cant change your mind or the person that they are having a discussion with is not backing down. I think people get angry when they don't get what they want, just like little children. But when it comes to politics there is so little that we can actually change, but to discuss it from all points of view is what the youth of America should be doing instead of reacting without thinking.
Politics and religion are two areas where emotions are set aflame very easily. Given how few people on the Internet care to practice civil rhetorical technique (and that assumes they have any idea what it is), you can't help but get name calling among other things. Fallacy is the biggest problem, and I'd say probably something like 90% of the arguments I see coming from both sides are dripping with it. People cling to stuff they don't even understand or know how to articulate. The "informed populace" the founding fathers were hoping for certainly didn't find its way onto the Internet.
It seems that it has seeped out into the 'real' world, too. I was called ignorant in person, by a friend. This individual is otherwise nice to be around, however, they seem to be overly-angered when someone does not agree with them about politics (this person is a dedicated Obama supporter... I mean, like, wears the t-shirts and goes to Obama events). For a campaign that seems to be so centered on change and equality, their supporters can sure be mean. Though I am positive I can find the same kind of person who is so hell-bent on supporting Romney, too. I am sure they wouldn't be very nice to me either.
I begin my two cents with, they are all gangsters. See what they can do with that.
Sure, it's possible to have calm, respectful, rational, intelligent debates about politics - as long as everyone involved is calm, respectful, rational, and intelligent! lol
My best pal and I debate politics all the time, but we respect each other's views, even though they're opposing views. We NEVER get angry about politics. I don't understand why people get so "bent out of shape" about politics - especially the presidential election. Vote for your guy. If you don't like the candidate who wins, try to vote him/her out in 4 years.
This would be okay if we were having an abstract intellectual discussion, such as Kantian vs. Utilitarian ethical philosophy.
But when Bush stood up and said he favored a constitutional amendment banning gay marriage, and put his energy cronies in charge of the EPA, it became difficult to just stand back and "disagree."
Another example is Obama ending DADT. McCain never would've had the courage to do it; it would inflame the Tea Party base too much. Real, practical results are of paramount importance, and if someone is supporting bigotry, or deregulation that leads to higher rates of diseases for people who are affected by the increased pollution, I cannot just say, "well we disagree."
I have respect for you Habee, hope this makes sense.
It seems to get this way every four years.
Electing the POTUS brings out the worst in everyone.
I think because whatever differences we have now have a very public face.
And it's in the media spotlight 24/7.
Romney and Obama PERSONIFY our divide.
Not sure if other nations are like this, but America seems to need an ENEMY to be against. Gotta live in FEAR!
Alas, try as some (Congresspeople who shall remain nameless) might, we cannot resurrect the Cold War with Russia.
We can hate "terrorists" but there is no one country we can hate.
Can't hate something that doesn't have a face.
Terrorist groups like Al Quaeda are too ambiguous.
So what happens?
PERSONIFICATION strikes again.
Hate anyone with a "towel" on their head.
Doesn't matter if they're actually Sikhs.
So my long answer is HATE is being stirred up like a stick in a beehive.
Because to get people out to vote they have to be RILED UP.
It's so easy to see. And really, realy pathetic.
P.S. I'm sorry you experienced the namecalling with your friends. I understand but don't condone it.
You're right, MM, and the media drives much of the hate to increase ratings. They WANT the election to be tight for the same reason...ratings.
I find that people will ravenously defend their belief systems even when presented with overwhelming evidence of the falsehood of the beliefs. The more that each individual presents their version of truth, the more heated the discussion gets.
To counter this phenomenon, plant seeds in their minds. Allow them to realize truth themselves, it does not happen on the spot.
Small questions that allow the individual to ponder the thought.
Another problem is when both sides have labelled the other. It is confrontational when each side is defending their team. Thinking of others as individuals, with a unique mindset allows an easier transfer of ideas.
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