jump to last post 1-50 of 61 discussions (528 posts)

Is American an Exceptional Nation?

  1. Nick Hanlon profile image60
    Nick Hanlonposted 4 years ago

    i often hear the claim that America is an exceptional nation.Is it?What is the basis for this claim of exceptionalism?What makes America an exceptional country if it is indeed exceptional?

    1. twosheds1 profile image61
      twosheds1posted 4 years ago in reply to this

      I think the major part of our problem is that we think we are exceptional.

      1. ptosis profile image79
        ptosisposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        1++
        "The real point of exceptionalism is to justify our being able to operate outside international norms and laws." - http://www.dailykos.com/story/2010/08/1 … ptionalism

        1. Petra Vlah profile image61
          Petra Vlahposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          1+++ so true and so sad!

        2. Ralph Deeds profile image69
          Ralph Deedsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Good point!

        3. 0
          Sophia Angeliqueposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          I would go with that... Why doesn't hubpages just have a 'like' or a 'plus?'

      2. Ralph Deeds profile image69
        Ralph Deedsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        +++

    2. rhamson profile image77
      rhamsonposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      We were but now we are only a AA+. In America the credit score is what counts. Capitalism has its' hooks in so deep that the ethics are for sale as well in this country.

      1. Dr Billy Kidd profile image93
        Dr Billy Kiddposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        The credit rating is all that matters! Briliant.

    3. twosheds1 profile image61
      twosheds1posted 4 years ago in reply to this

      You might want to read "The Myth of American Exceptionalism"
      http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2 … mments=yes

    4. forbcrin profile image69
      forbcrinposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      To answer your question, one needs some clarifications. How do you define "exceptional"? Superlatives are always very tricky...

    5. 0
      Sophia Angeliqueposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      What absolutely hogwash. It is only exceptional in its desire for power and influence and the extent to which it will go. America spends more on her military than all the other nations of the earth combined. I wrote a hub entitled "America vs the Rest of the World." Unsurprisingly, it's my top hub.

      1. Dr Billy Kidd profile image93
        Dr Billy Kiddposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        I woke up years ago in Spain to the fact that common people hated the American governemnt. People asked me why the U.S. dumped an A-bomb off the coast of Spain and never went out to retrive it?

        1. 0
          Sophia Angeliqueposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Yup, Americans have no idea how little they are valued elsewhere. They keep thinking their 'might in war' 'rescuing the world' makes people admire them. They also think their 'great generosity' towards other nations makes them highly admired. The problem is that they are so busy looking at what theya re doing that they have little concept of what others are doing.

          1. KMI Rebel Yell profile image60
            KMI Rebel Yellposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            My dear, Sophia. You are quite mistaken. You are projecting your false image on Americans. We know that you don't care for us. That is to be expected when you are the greatest nation in all of history.

            1. Josak profile image60
              Josakposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              big_smile *snort* greatest in history huh *snort* *chuckle* tongue

  2. Will Apse profile image92
    Will Apseposted 4 years ago

    Standard national myth. Chosen people. God on our side. Master race. etc etc

    1. 0
      Tawadiposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      As a Brit, we don't expect you to think us exceptional, Will.

      America is exceptional to most Americans as I'm sure Great Britain is exceptional to you. That's as it should be for both of us.

      I don't think Americans are the chosen people. The people of Israel are the "Chosen People," at least according to my faith. Your opinion and/or faith may be different. That's okay, too.

      IMHO, the only master race is that of mankind (not gender specific by any stretch of the imagination).

      1. Dr Billy Kidd profile image93
        Dr Billy Kiddposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Insects actually dominate the world.

  3. Nick Hanlon profile image60
    Nick Hanlonposted 4 years ago

    I just keep hearing this claim being made by politician's and certain HPer's.Maybe someone can do a hub on this one and prove that America is an "exceptional" nation.Standard rheoteric but about time we examine this claim more closely.

    1. rhamson profile image77
      rhamsonposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      You know what is funny is that when people tell me this is the greatest nation in the world I ask them where else have they lived to make that comparison. Not all but most of the time they have not lived outside the country or been outside the country to have adequate information to base the statement on. It kind of reminds me of the propoganda perpetrated during the Second World War that if you say something long enough and often enough somebody will start believing it to be true.

      1. Petra Vlah profile image61
        Petra Vlahposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Just like at the Olympics!!!  We had NO WAY to compare  the performance of other because we only saw the "great" Americans compete - everyone  one else is irrelevant according to NBC

        1. KK Trainor profile image61
          KK Trainorposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Well you do know that NBC is an American network right? Why shouldn't they be proud of and promote American athletes? Watch the coverage on BBC if you don't like it, I'm sure they're more interested in the British athletes.

      2. KK Trainor profile image61
        KK Trainorposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Well here's one person who has actually lived abroad for a couple of years and spent months at a time in several other countries.

        America is exceptional because we welcome people from all over the world and they are free to go anywhere they like and make a home for themselves. They can serve in our military if they choose, but they don't have to. They can learn our dominant language, but they can get by pretty well without it. They can get an education of choose not to. They can work hard and own something, whether a home or a business or both. Or they can choose to simply live and work and keep to themselves until they decide to go back to their country of origin in their old age. It's their choice.

        That's what makes America exceptional. We're not the only exceptional country, but we're one of them.

    2. 0
      Sophia Angeliqueposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      I did a hub comparing America to the rest of the world. That said, 'suck up politics' in this country makes it mandatory for every politician (and president) who stands at the podium to say, "America is the greatest nation in the world. " I guess when one hears something all the time, whether it's right or wrong, people believe it - especially when it is personally flattering. Nothing like ego.

      1. stanwshura profile image67
        stanwshuraposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        +∞

  4. maxoxam41 profile image79
    maxoxam41posted 4 years ago

    I agree with you rhamson. it is based upon nothing (but the love of one's country) and it's not as if it was a model of democracy!

    1. ptosis profile image79
      ptosisposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      I's a model, an aged and worn model.....
      http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/What-is-democracy.gif

  5. BobbiRant profile image80
    BobbiRantposted 4 years ago

    Freedom in America.  I am free to do what?  To lock my doors so someone does not rob me?  Free to carry a gun so someone does not shoot me in a theater or a religious temple?  Free to be afraid to walk a city street at night?  I guess I fail to see how 'free' people claim we are.  You protest and see how fast you do Not have freedom of speech in America.  Oh yes, we are free to live under a bridge if we do not like how the rich are treating us serfs too!  Great question.  I sincerely more people question this.

  6. jacharless profile image83
    jacharlessposted 4 years ago

    It's an ego thing. 223 years young. Arrogance mixed with ridiculous amounts of power and one hella-good marketing strategy. So, yes, it is quite exceptional. Regardless, England still rules the world.

    1. Petra Vlah profile image61
      Petra Vlahposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      The world is ruled by MONEY and MILITARY power. Does that make a country exceptional? Hardly!

      1. jacharless profile image83
        jacharlessposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Petra, I was being sarcastic about exceptional. They are exceptionally ----.

      2. stanwshura profile image67
        stanwshuraposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        (+++)^∞

  7. jcales profile image74
    jcalesposted 4 years ago

    We  were exceptional from the 70s to early 90s. Ever since the Iraq war it has gone downhill.
    Infrastructure, education, health are all lacking.

    More millionaires and billionaires are being produced elsewhere.

    If corporate bailout money from the govt was money poured into the systems I mentioned before where would we be?  a heckuva lot better off. Wall Street greed has caused everything.

    1. Will Apse profile image92
      Will Apseposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Depressing and wasteful as it is bailing out the Wall Street screw ups, it would be worse if you didn't, This is the sad part of mutual dependency,

  8. Nick Hanlon profile image60
    Nick Hanlonposted 4 years ago

    Seems morale is down from our American friends.Might make a hub about it.

    1. KK Trainor profile image61
      KK Trainorposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Don't get too excited just yet, most of us are still glad to live in the greatest country on earth. Just because liberals hate it here doesn't mean the majority do.

  9. Mighty Mom profile image90
    Mighty Momposted 4 years ago

    There's a big difference between being proud and being arrogant.
    This is a pretty proud week for the USA. Made it to Mars and won the most medals at the Olympics. Those are cool accomplisyments.
    Howsomever....
    The "E" word has become yet another rallying cry for the right.
    I.e., If you don't believe American is "Exceptional" you are not a real American.
    It's as hollow as "Support Our Troops."

    1. ptosis profile image79
      ptosisposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      In 1986 the International Olympic Committee (IOC) changed its charter to allow "all the world's great male and female athletes to participate." - well - that's crappy and unfair - total B.S. A sign of the end times

      1. Mighty Mom profile image90
        Mighty Momposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Yeah, about that!
        I try to hide my blatant feminism (sometimes).
        But seriously. The American women are totally carrying the day over in London.
        Gymnastics, beach volleyball, volleyball, soccer, swimming*, track and field, water polo, shooting. I'm sure I'm missing some big medal categories dominated by Team USA.
        The American women are totally rocking these Olympics.
        The men? Not so much.
        *No diss intended on Michael Phelps and Co. Kudos totally earned there.

    2. Josak profile image60
      Josakposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      "Support our troops by sending them to die in meaningless conflicts where we aren't wanted" *

      1. Suzie Crumcakes profile image61
        Suzie Crumcakesposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        There you go saying we again, when you are not an American. You are a South American, and my guess is you are a communist. You are silly if you think I can't see right through you and your propaganda. That first guy is just a trouble maker, too.

        "What makes American a great nation?"

        For one thing, American is one person, or something from here. Maybe you need a better translation program or something. I can answer your question real fast. I know America is a great nation, because people who aren't so great are always trying to put us down. America! Love it, or leave it. Definitely, leave us alone. You have problems of your own to work on. Get busy with that.

        1. Cody Hodge profile image85
          Cody Hodgeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          And we wonder why people don't like us.....

          1. Suzie Crumcakes profile image61
            Suzie Crumcakesposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            I don't wonder why people don't like us. I wonder why we put up with them in the first place. You must be from up north.

            1. Josak profile image60
              Josakposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              By put up with them do you mean entirely rely on them? I wonder how long you think the US would remain a world power without foreign support... No more than a couple of years.

              First our debt would be called in causing total economic collapse, then there would be embargo's so our exports would be useless, then there would be all sorts of shortages for all the things that are made overseas and prices would go up astronomically then we would militarily be totally dwarfed and then we would run out of oil.

              1. Suzie Crumcakes profile image61
                Suzie Crumcakesposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                You are being subversive. If you hate the USA so much, then why would you want to be a citizen? I say its good you aren't one. Who needs whiners and complainers becoming citizens. People who really do become citizens are happy and proud. You are not a citizen. You are a socialist. Why try to be misleading? What's your end game? A socialist is just a mealy mouth communist. It all works out the same in the real world. If you are irritated, unhappy and complain about this country all the time, then I suggest you just go back to where you came from. You know, the happy wonderful place where everyone is free and there are plenty of opportunities.

                1. Josak profile image60
                  Josakposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Subversive huh? wow it's Mcarthy all over tongue

                  I am a US citizen and yes I am a socialist, the fact that you think communism and socialism are the same is an excellent demonstration of your ignorance.

                  Socialists can be citizens, who knew? *mind blown*

                  Oh I am perfectly happy, I think there is lots of work to be done in this country but frankly who doesn't I find I like it a lot more and complain a lot less than most conservatives tongue

                  You can be as insulting as you like, it's fine I won't report it but it paints a pretty clear picture of you tongue

                  Maybe those stereotypes about your area are more correct than I assumed.

                2. Hollie Thomas profile image60
                  Hollie Thomasposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Wow, i should not be shocked, I thought I had heard it all, but I am.

        2. Josak profile image60
          Josakposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          I am a US citizen seriously how many times do I have to tell you and I am not a communist also you are a xenophobe.

          1. kirstenblog profile image76
            kirstenblogposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Ahhh but your not the right kind of US citizen, we aren't all equal you know wink

            1. Josak profile image60
              Josakposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Right I missed that. The funny thing I was under the (obviously false) impression that every one is equal no matter where they are from but obviously foreigners might as well be something that got stuck to our shoe.

              1. kirstenblog profile image76
                kirstenblogposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Don't worry, its a mistake I have made too. It's not just foreigners but Americans who practice 'free' speech but say the wrong things. As an american ex-pat I find more freedom and equality living as a foreigner here then I did when I lived state side. My only reason for caring if America destroys itself with it's division or not comes down to the fact that my whole family still lives there and I don't want to see them suffer.

                1. Suzie Crumcakes profile image61
                  Suzie Crumcakesposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Love it or leave it. Good riddance. One less whiner.

                  1. Will Apse profile image92
                    Will Apseposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    lol. You sound like my mother when people won't eat their greens.

                  2. twosheds1 profile image61
                    twosheds1posted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    I think you really misunderstand. It's like the relationship between a two-year-old and his mommy. Conservatives love America like the two-year-old loves his mommy, but liberals love America like mommy loves her two-year-old. Both forms of love are valid, and liberals are critical because they love this country.

                  3. kirstenblog profile image76
                    kirstenblogposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Ahh, what freedom! Love it or leave it! Free speech, just don't disagree! ('whine') roll

                2. Hollie Thomas profile image60
                  Hollie Thomasposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Hey kirsten, the UK has it's fair share of bigots, too. If you've not come across them you are very lucky. Personally, I'm glad you're in the UK, smile but I think the US and UK alike are ready to implode. sad

          2. Mighty Mom profile image90
            Mighty Momposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Looks like you may need to provide your long form, Josak.
            It's not from Hawaii by any chance is it?
            I hear they are subject to blatant forgery over there.
            lol

            1. Josak profile image60
              Josakposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Man oh man I don't know how Obama stands it frankly.

  10. Nick Hanlon profile image60
    Nick Hanlonposted 4 years ago

    Josak.That's the kind of self-defeating logic that lead to Sept.11.1980 Iranian hostage crisis-did nothing.1983 Lebanon bombing of Marine barracks-withdrew.1986.Tripoli bombed-Gaddafi remained in power.1993 Mogadishu-.withdrew.1998-launched a few missiles and hit the wrong targets.Bin Laden stated publicly that the risk of retaliation was zero because he had learnt from experience that America was weak and wouldn't counter-attack due to past behaviour.That is what encouraged him to behave as he did in planning the Sept.11 attack.
    Me and a band mate we're talking about Pussy Riot last night and we concluded that Russians have to want to pay the price for being free.They are now paying that price.

    1. Josak profile image60
      Josakposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      No it's the opposite kind of logic that led to tens of thousands of dead in Vietnam for a failed war that has killed up to a million people in the Iraq and Afghanistan conflicts etc etc.

      What would you say our total losses from foreign terrorism have been in our entire history? I bet you it adds up to a miniscule fraction of the people we lose policing the world (not to mention that often provokes terrorism) anyhow invaing a country is no way to prevent terrorism, to do so you have to attack the actual terrorists (with drone strikes like we are doing now for example) not go to war with a whole country.

      1. Lavoris Palmolive profile image60
        Lavoris Palmoliveposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Deleted

        1. Josak profile image60
          Josakposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          The Vietnam war? Where we prevented free elections, backed a dictator, where the North won and Vietnam is still communist? Yeah that was an amazing success that one. Not to mention the 47 500 Americans who died there also it made the Us look weak all around the world, losing to a peasant guerrilla.

          1. Lavoris Palmolive profile image60
            Lavoris Palmoliveposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Deleted

            1. Josak profile image60
              Josakposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              So let educate you on what happened there because you are obviously clueless, in Argentina our military seized power, they tortured, gang raped and killed my entire family and most of my friends, some for being leftists, some simply for passing out pro democracy leaflets along with about 40 000 of my country men after they dropped their bodies from planes out to sea so I never got to bury them the US helped. So yes not long after I joined the only people with the courage to fight them (which was the socialists not communists) I have never hidden any of that.

              http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Condor

              Now how exactly is that relevant and what makes you think you are fit to comment on it having grown up spoiled and sheltered in the US with no possible clue what that is like.

            2. Will Apse profile image92
              Will Apseposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              'What a tangled web we weave??'  That is serious persona slippage.

              1. Lavoris Palmolive profile image60
                Lavoris Palmoliveposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Deleted

                1. Will Apse profile image92
                  Will Apseposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Well, Sir Walt will be proud you remembered him.

          2. Will Apse profile image92
            Will Apseposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            You realize that after Vietnam finally won its independence from Western powers it was obliged to fight communist China and communist Cambodia to retain its right to self determination?

            All the evidence is that US policy makers genuinely believed they were fighting the spread of a globally organised, monolithic communist conspiracy when they got involved in Vietnam. They were simply wrong.

            Vietnam wanted genuine self determination. Not a puppet regime left by France or the US. Ho Chi Minh managed to persuade the average Vietnamese he could deliver. As it turned out, against all the odds, he did.

            Of course, communism is a lousy economic system but nothing is perfect. lol.

      2. twosheds1 profile image61
        twosheds1posted 4 years ago in reply to this

        In the book Osama bin Laden author Michael Scheuer states that bin Laden wanted to draw the US into a foreign conflict to weaken us economically and sow political division. Scheuer goes on to say that he succeeded, and this was published before bin Laden's death.

        And I have to side with Josak. 9/11 certainly wasn't miniscule as a single event, but in the larger context, the number of deaths due to terrorism is pretty tiny compared with things like the number of civilians who have died in the Iraqi & Afghan occupations. This disproportionality is the main reason why no one supports us any more. It's like if a kid's baseball goes through my window, so I burn down his house, his friend's houses, and kill his dog.

    2. kirstenblog profile image76
      kirstenblogposted 4 years ago

      America is exceptionally something all right, but what? lol

      1. Petra Vlah profile image61
        Petra Vlahposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        exceptionally arrogant for starters

        1. Ralph Deeds profile image69
          Ralph Deedsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          America is a country. Countries aren't arrogant or humble. Some Americans, the proponents of exceptionalism, are arrogant. Others are humble. I'm not sure which group is in the majority. [I guess that's nit picking. :-)]

    3. Nick Hanlon profile image60
      Nick Hanlonposted 4 years ago

      Would you say Sptemeber 11 was miniscule?

      1. Josak profile image60
        Josakposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Tell me how many Americans died in Vietnam, compare that number and get back to me.

        1. Lavoris Palmolive profile image60
          Lavoris Palmoliveposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Deleted

          1. Josak profile image60
            Josakposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            I would hardly call myself a business tycoon tongue no it's that sometimes one finds an educated and informed discussion, doesn't seem to be happening on this thread though.

            1. Ralph Deeds profile image69
              Ralph Deedsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              True. A waste of time.

              1. Lavoris Palmolive profile image60
                Lavoris Palmoliveposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Deleted

                1. 0
                  Tawadiposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  It is to most Americans, Lavoris, but we must also remember presentation is everything to people of other countries, especially those that feel that their own country is better than ours. To argue otherwise only makes one appear arrogant.

                  Pride is one thing. Arrogance is altogether something else and, on it's face, ugly. Just sayin'.

                  1. Petra Vlah profile image61
                    Petra Vlahposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Proud of what? America has a bloody history (past and present), in terms of education is close to the bottom of the pile, freedom of speech is limited to the "politically correct" version, corporate greed, political corruption and financial irresponsibility is rampant.
                    America, as a country is far from being exceptional, BUT most of its regular people are hard working, God fearing, generous and more tolerant than most.

                    1. 0
                      Tawadiposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                      As I'm sure Romania does as well. Are you not proud of your home country? Your family heritage?

                    2. Suzie Crumcakes profile image61
                      Suzie Crumcakesposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                      Yeah, sure, the bottom of the pile. That's why everyone in the world wants to come here to go to school and steal our ideas. You aren't even grateful that we let you use our internet. If it was up to Europe, we would still be yodeling from mountain tops.

    4. 0
      Tawadiposted 4 years ago

      Will wrote: "There are always reasons why people lash out, assign blame in strange and illogical ways, descend into personal invective and generally just lose it.

      So what is yours?"


      I just don't like liberals in general or people who put my country down, especially foreigners.

      I've been to your country twice, Will. Would really like the opportunity to go back and spend a lot more time.

      1. Will Apse profile image92
        Will Apseposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        George Orwell wrote an interesting essay on the differences between nationalism and patriotism.

        He pointed out that nationalism is characterized by a distorted world view, irrational egotism and contempt for other nations and races. Patriotism he contended was a simple love of one's country.

        America Exeptionalism as a creed is not necessarily nationalistic in the above sense but it was pushed in that direction by some right wingers, especially neo-cons. You could try to rescue it if you wanted to.

        Why I am saying this? Because I think ideas matter a lot more than 'I hate!!!'

    5. Nick Hanlon profile image60
      Nick Hanlonposted 4 years ago

      Lavoris Palmolive.Why is an argument to the contrary not intelligent?Does everyone truly know that America is the greatest nation on earth or haven't they been told the good news as yet?
      Must say though your rhyming diction is no fiction,but it does cause some friction.

    6. Nick Hanlon profile image60
      Nick Hanlonposted 4 years ago

      Josak...your point being?

    7. Reality Bytes profile image94
      Reality Bytesposted 4 years ago

      America is an exceptional Nation in this regard.  The most powerful entity in the U.S.A. is the individual, we are a Nation of Sovereign individuals.  This concept holds the best chance for freedom for each human being.  Though this is being dismantled incrementally, the idea is exceptional!


      The rage is relentless
      We need a movement with a quickness
      You are the witness of change
      And to counteract
      We gotta take the power back

      RATM

    8. psycheskinner profile image80
      psycheskinnerposted 4 years ago

      In what measurable terms are individual more powerful in the US than any other country?  That just seems like a new way to say: we are the best because we are the best

      1. Reality Bytes profile image94
        Reality Bytesposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        The acknowledgement that human beings have rights at their birth.  It is not through the benevolence of government that we have rights, it is through our life.

        1. Josak profile image60
          Josakposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Pretty standard belief throughout the developed nations.

          1. Reality Bytes profile image94
            Reality Bytesposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            It is not a belief in the United States, it is the predominant Law.

            1. psycheskinner profile image80
              psycheskinnerposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              How is it measurably more predominant in the US than any other country that also recognizes natural rights?  Unless it is a unique law/enshrined right or measurable quality/ies you are just saying 'we are best because we are best'.

              Which is exactly what makes people roll their eyes at US Exceptionalist arguments.  Especially those in also-rather-nifty nations. Like the ones that invented the systems the US now uses.

              1. Reality Bytes profile image94
                Reality Bytesposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Not being familiar with the legislation of every nation, I can only speak of nations I am familiar with.

                I like the South African Constitution except for one small part that does not exist in the U.S.:

                36. Limitation of rights

                The rights in the Bill of Rights may be limited only in terms of law of general application to the extent that the limitation is reasonable and justifiable in an open and democratic society based on human dignity, equality and freedom, taking into account all relevant factors, including ­
                the nature of the right;
                the importance of the purpose of the limitation;
                the nature and extent of the limitation;
                the relation between the limitation and its purpose; and
                less restrictive means to achieve the purpose.

                http://www.info.gov.za/documents/consti … ns2.htm#36


                I find this section somewhat disturbing.  I was attracted to this Constitution based on our SC Justice Ginsburghs mentioning of the document.

                If you are aware of a document that highlights the rights of the individual better than the U.S., please inform me.  smile

        2. Petra Vlah profile image61
          Petra Vlahposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Slogans don't make it so and brainwashing only works with some.

        3. Suzie Crumcakes profile image61
          Suzie Crumcakesposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          It is more simple than that. We are just the best, and you know it.

      2. maxoxam41 profile image79
        maxoxam41posted 4 years ago

        It is interesting to see the discrepancy between a foreign view and an American view of the United-States. As the foreign one is more realistic, the American one remains subjective and ready to bite anyone underlining facts.

        1. Suzie Crumcakes profile image61
          Suzie Crumcakesposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          You are green with envy.

          1. Petra Vlah profile image61
            Petra Vlahposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Typical answer for the ones who can't debate without labeling people of being either envious or anti american. Where have I heard that before?

            1. KK Trainor profile image61
              KK Trainorposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              I just don't understand your anger at us. What have we done to your country that makes you think so little of us? I'm not saying you're envious or anti American, but what is the problem exactly? Would you rather Romania was still behind the Iron Curtain? Were things so much better then or do you think that Romania would have gained independence without any help from the US and Great Britain? Have we attacked you or ruined your country somehow? Just wondering.

              1. Petra Vlah profile image61
                Petra Vlahposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                I am by no means angry, just plain disappointed at the hypocrisy that I have seen for 30 years in this country that calls itself the best of the best.
                Romania has nothing to do with this topic, so no reason to compere or bring up its name.

                1. Suzie Crumcakes profile image61
                  Suzie Crumcakesposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  If you are sick of it, take off. No one's making you stay and enjoy all we have to offer that you can't possibly find anywhere else. I'll tell you what. Let's suit up for some football and see how the rest of the world holds up. Stick to volleyball and you won't get hurt.

                2. KK Trainor profile image61
                  KK Trainorposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Well Ralph Deeds brought up Romania, not me. I still wonder what you're angry about (calling America hypocritical is a sign of anger to me) but I guess we won't get that answer. I happen to think this is a great place and we all have a right to live here or not.

                3. 0
                  Tawadiposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  You appear to be living a pretty good life here, Petra. Pretty woman, if I may say so. You're wearing jewelry so you have disposable income or a significant other that does.

                  If you hate this country so much, why do you stay?

                  Delta is ready when you are.

                4. Ralph Deeds profile image69
                  Ralph Deedsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  "this country that calls itself the best of the best."

                  This "country" doesn't call itself anything. The claim is made by American super-patriots, chauvinists and jingoists who do not, so far as I know, constitute a majority in this country despite a number of undeniably dumb foreign policy actions.

                  1. KMI Rebel Yell profile image60
                    KMI Rebel Yellposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Sir, we tried to spare you from the Yankees, but it was no use.

                    1. Petra Vlah profile image61
                      Petra Vlahposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                      Thank you for the compliment, Tawadi.
                      I have no reason at all to complain about my good life, but it pains me to know that thousands of American children go to bed hungry, thousands of veterans are living in the streets and thousands of decent hard working people have lost their homes. A great nation should not allow that to happen and an exceptional one, even less

                      1. Ralph Deeds profile image69
                        Ralph Deedsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                        Can't argue with you on that, Petra.

                      2. 0
                        Tawadiposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                        Ralph's right, Petra. Can't argue with your points. America has a lot of work to do. Perhaps that's where we should concentrate our efforts rather than helping every other nation that comes begging with hat in hand.

              2. maxoxam41 profile image79
                maxoxam41posted 4 years ago in reply to this

                The right question would be what have we done to the rest of the world to deserve so much anger? If you don't find the answer, it means that you need to immerse yourself in the real world!

                1. KK Trainor profile image61
                  KK Trainorposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Deleted

                  1. maxoxam41 profile image79
                    maxoxam41posted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Go ahead enlighten us or ridicule yourself!

                    1. KK Trainor profile image61
                      KK Trainorposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                      How am I ridiculing myself? And why attack me personally anyway?

                      1. maxoxam41 profile image79
                        maxoxam41posted 4 years ago in reply to this

                        Show us your knowledge of the world!

            2. Hollie Thomas profile image60
              Hollie Thomasposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              It's a pity that the US is so often labeled as being at the bottom of the pile in terms of education. Personally, I think that just a few people let the country down, just like in my own country. They often start sentences with "go home" you're not a Brit, an American. What they really mean to say is "I'm blind and gullible and refuse to think" Thank goodness they are not in the majority.

              1. Ralph Deeds profile image69
                Ralph Deedsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Well, we're not totally at the bottom of the pile. People come to the U.S. from all over the world for graduate school in nearly all fields. And many of them decide to stay rather than return to their own country.

                1. Hollie Thomas profile image60
                  Hollie Thomasposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  That's my point, that US is often 'labelled' as such, not that it necessarily is. A few bad apples can give the wrong, and I might add, false impression.

        2. Josak profile image60
          Josakposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Which sort of brings us to the point that no one has really addressed how we are determining "greatest" nation so the US... Militarily is not the biggest army in the world but is probably the strongest but in a world war the US would find itself outmatched by the China, North Korea and Russian military. Economically the US is the biggest nation in the world but by population is fairly average. Quality of life wise the US comes in at about #31 in the world, it's a wash really and objectively/factually speaking the US is by population pretty much average for a first world nation.

          1. Suzie Crumcakes profile image61
            Suzie Crumcakesposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Good luck with that. Bring it on.

            North Korea? Give me a break. We'll just let Iceland take care of them.

            1. Josak profile image60
              Josakposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              North Korea has the third biggest military in the world another astounding display of lack of knowledge.

              Good response to the whole comment by the way tongue

              1. Suzie Crumcakes profile image61
                Suzie Crumcakesposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                North Korea is a total joke. It's run by Howdy Doodie's ugly brother. If you don't know that, I got some land in Florida I want to sell you.

                1. Josak profile image60
                  Josakposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  North Korea is a joke in many ways but militarily is not one of them their Army is almost as big as the US's and super fanatical it is also directly geographically reinforced by the largest military in the world.

                  1. Lavoris Palmolive profile image60
                    Lavoris Palmoliveposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Deleted

                    1. Josak profile image60
                      Josakposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                      I would like to see some proof, in the Korean war the North captured Seoul in less than three days, the North Koreans are super fanatical and they are technologically supported by the Chinese and have Nuclear capability...

                      The North Koreans also defeated US forces in the first five battles of the Korean war without Chinese support.

                      1. twosheds1 profile image61
                        twosheds1posted 4 years ago in reply to this

                        That was 60 years ago. Times change. Just because they have a military that looks impressive in parades doesn't mean they could prosecute (or pay for) a war. The Chinese wouldn't support them and risk alienating their biggest customer. The Russians have no reason to support them and can barely feed their own army. North Korea is a paper tiger.

            2. Ralph Deeds profile image69
              Ralph Deedsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              I seem to recall that W. said "Bring it on!"

              "1. "My answer is bring them on." --on Iraqi insurgents attacking U.S. forces, Washington, D.C., July 3, 2003."  Nine years later they're still coming on.

      3. Reality Bytes profile image94
        Reality Bytesposted 4 years ago

        If not the United States, what nation is exceptional?

        1. Josak profile image60
          Josakposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Lots of nations are exceptional in many different ways, Norway fro quality of life and in the way it has dealt with crime and poverty, Japan for it's amazing history and economic development also with a great quality of life, Greece for being the foundation of western culture, China for a wide variety of reasons some good some bad.etc etc. it all depends on how you define exceptional but literally dozens of countries are exceptional in different areas.

          1. KK Trainor profile image61
            KK Trainorposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Well then I guess it is simply a matter of opinion. If you think we're at the bottom of the list then that's too bad. Maybe you're not making to most of your citizenship as those of us who are happy and proud of our country do.

          2. stanwshura profile image67
            stanwshuraposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Bingo, Josak.  Giddy over your clean yet poignant expression of the truth that all humanity is precious, and our evolutionary parting and regrouping to form unique but equally worthy cultures can never subvert thee basic fact of from-birth equality of value of every person.  What we conjure up as countries or (puke) national identities, is trivial and meaningless wrt changing the basic and obvious truth of our equality.   I'm sure other countries' people regard their country as "exceptional".  All countries, being of course comprised of human beings, are vulnerable to this ego-centric fault and frailty.

            1. Josak profile image60
              Josakposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              +1000

        2. Ralph Deeds profile image69
          Ralph Deedsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Why do you think it's necessary or useful to claim that any nation is exceptional? Why not just stick to factual information about the pluses and minuses in each country? So far as I know the term "exceptional" which super-patriots like to apply to the US doesn't have a definition. It's more of an opinion.

          1. KK Trainor profile image61
            KK Trainorposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            I dont' see anything wrong with being a "super-patriot" as long as it doesn't lead to extreme actions. Loving your country should be a product of enjoying your life, so that may lead to being too patriotic in your mind, but I'm just plain happy!

            1. Ralph Deeds profile image69
              Ralph Deedsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Well it has led to quite a number of unnecessary military actions since WWII.

            2. Uninvited Writer profile image83
              Uninvited Writerposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              See, I love my country and I'm proud of it but I don't think it's necessarily better than every other country. We don't feel the need to wave flags as much as the US does or need to always tell the world "we're number one."

              1. KK Trainor profile image61
                KK Trainorposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Why not read my original answer to this forum, back on the first page or so. I pointed out that there were many exceptional countries, but that we are one in my opinion.

                1. Ralph Deeds profile image69
                  Ralph Deedsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  You mean like sex, they only go from good to EXCEPTIONAL!!!?

                  1. KK Trainor profile image61
                    KK Trainorposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    What?

                2. Uninvited Writer profile image83
                  Uninvited Writerposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  My point was...you can love your county but you don't have to make people believe that your country is better than everyone elses.

                  1. KK Trainor profile image61
                    KK Trainorposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Agreed and understood. But there is nothing wrong with showing pride as long as it's not denegrating to others. Lots of countries have proud citizens, as seen clearly these past weeks at the Olympics. I was pretty well disgusted with Matt Lauer mentioning repeatedly during opening ceremonies that 81 of those nations had never and probably would never win a medal. He's such an idiot. Well three of them (Cyprus, Grenada and Guatemala) did win their first medals ever, so glad they could prove him wrong!

                  2. maxoxam41 profile image79
                    maxoxam41posted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Forgive him, he doesn't know what he is talking about! By the way, how many of us know what they are talking about?

                    1. KK Trainor profile image61
                      KK Trainorposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                      If you're referring to me it's she actually doesn't know what she's talking about, thank you very much.

                      1. maxoxam41 profile image79
                        maxoxam41posted 4 years ago in reply to this

                        One of many! I did not need to pinpoint you, you acknowledged it on your own!

            3. maxoxam41 profile image79
              maxoxam41posted 4 years ago in reply to this

              A super-patriot lacks objectivity therefore when he reasons, I'll be skeptical about the validity of his argumentation!

          2. Reality Bytes profile image94
            Reality Bytesposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            That is what I am seeking, the opinions of others so I may research the nation.

          3. twosheds1 profile image61
            twosheds1posted 4 years ago in reply to this

            The point is that "exceptionalism" is used as an excuse to justify actions that generally wouldn't be acceptable from other nations. The assumption is that anything the US does is OK, because the US is incapable of doing something morally wrong.

          4. stanwshura profile image67
            stanwshuraposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            YES!!  Everybody wants to claim gold.  Everyone and every country does, in one arena or another.  The idea that one country - ANY country -and woulld even try to own the patent on "exceptional" would be "pee yourself laughable" if it were not more than a tad frightening...and ridiculous.

        3. maxoxam41 profile image79
          maxoxam41posted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Which country is not exceptional?

          1. Reality Bytes profile image94
            Reality Bytesposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            IMO, any nation that needs foreign assistance to survive.

        4. 0
          Tawadiposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Reality, what we're witnessing is Americans who are proud of their country versus Liberals who won't be happy until this country changes its name to U.S.S.A. - the United Socialist States of Amerika with a few ungrateful foreigners who hate this country sprinkled in. roll

          1. Josak profile image60
            Josakposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            This right here is exactly what is wrong with a segment of this country in this issue, somehow other countries should be grateful and liberals are socialist even though liberalism is definitionally capitalist and it is thus impossible. Ignorance.

            1. 0
              Tawadiposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Then tell me why so many Liberals, Obama included, want to destroy the capitalist system and, in the process, this country?

              1. maxoxam41 profile image79
                maxoxam41posted 4 years ago in reply to this

                In what way capitalism did not self-destroy?

                1. maxoxam41 profile image79
                  maxoxam41posted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  It did not need Obama!

                2. Ralph Deeds profile image69
                  Ralph Deedsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Capitalism is alive and well in the U.S. and even in China.

                  1. maxoxam41 profile image79
                    maxoxam41posted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    My use of the past tense was a mistake. The Wall Street crash would have solved the problem, had Obama not bailed them out.

              2. Uninvited Writer profile image83
                Uninvited Writerposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                I would say probably .000001%... if that.

              3. Hollie Thomas profile image60
                Hollie Thomasposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                I think many people, not just Obama, not just Liberals, but indeed thinking people of the world, want to destroy crony capitalism. Before it destroys us all.

              4. Ralph Deeds profile image69
                Ralph Deedsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Obama is accused by Tea Partiers and ultra conservatives of wanting to destroy the capitalist system and by liberal Democrats of being a tool of the capitalist system. The truth is somewhere in between. Actually he is a moderate to conservative Democrat following in the footsteps of Bill Clinton.

          2. maxoxam41 profile image79
            maxoxam41posted 4 years ago in reply to this

            What would you have done if your government did not intervene in the recent Wall Street crash? Do you know that when it is intervening it is part of the socialistic policy. Had Obama practised what you so long for pure capitalism, you would be begging for a change!

          3. Mighty Mom profile image90
            Mighty Momposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            We can be proud of our country without living in denial.
            We want America's Glory Days to be ahead.

          4. Hollie Thomas profile image60
            Hollie Thomasposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            It is already the U.S.S.A, only the shift of power, money, benefits and privileges are sent to those who are not in need.

      4. Mighty Mom profile image90
        Mighty Momposted 4 years ago

        All we have to offer that you can't possibly find anywhere else?
        I don't want to misinterpret your meaning here so will ask for clarification.
        What are the things that the US offers that cannot be found anywhere else?
        Because I can certainly think of some.
        But not sure how logisically or financially feasible it is for one to enjoy ALL of them.





        f

      5. maxoxam41 profile image79
        maxoxam41posted 4 years ago

        If the U.S. has so much why is it pilfering the world or trying to take advantages anyway it can through barrier tradings, IMF, United Nations...

        1. Hollie Thomas profile image60
          Hollie Thomasposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          It's not just the US Maxoxam, find a country that doesn't have pilferers, rapists, murderers and scoundrels at the upper echelons, and when you do let me know because I'm going to live there.

          1. maxoxam41 profile image79
            maxoxam41posted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Yes, it is the only one that still advocates and justifies through fallacious pretexts the pilfering of countries. Would Italy, Japan, Germany, Australia invade any other country like the U.S. did with Lybia, Iraq?

            1. Nick Hanlon profile image60
              Nick Hanlonposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Yes.Austrlia helped invade IRAQ IN 2003.N.ATO. bombed Libya in 2011.

              1. Ralph Deeds profile image69
                Ralph Deedsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                W. Bush's invasion of Iraq was a huge, costly, unsuccessful blunder. Libya may work out better. At least it didn't cost as much in money or lives.

            2. Hollie Thomas profile image60
              Hollie Thomasposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              The UK was chomping at the bit to get into both Iraq and Libya. They'd love to get into Syria, too.

      6. knolyourself profile image61
        knolyourselfposted 4 years ago
      7. knolyourself profile image61
        knolyourselfposted 4 years ago

        I think Butan, the last non-progressive country in the world. But that is changing, and they now are becoming a democracy. Every kind of larceny should follow.

        1. Hollie Thomas profile image60
          Hollie Thomasposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Good luck to them, they'll need it.

      8. knolyourself profile image61
        knolyourselfposted 4 years ago

        The CBS TV show 60 minutes went Butan for a visit, specifically to see the king. He was out camping. They couldn't believe it. No one had ever stood them up before.

        1. Hollie Thomas profile image60
          Hollie Thomasposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Good for him. Imagine, a king went camping. Was he surrounded by security?

      9. Hollie Thomas profile image60
        Hollie Thomasposted 4 years ago

        @Univitedwriter, that's kind of what I meant. In fairness, I deserved the pull for my sloppy generalities. But he was British. smile

        1. Uninvited Writer profile image83
          Uninvited Writerposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Yes, and they event highlighted him at the Olympic opening ceremonies smile

          1. Hollie Thomas profile image60
            Hollie Thomasposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            They did. smile It;s amazing how many times I've heard people on these forums say that the US invented the web. I often think they believe that Google created the web. lol Nice to see he received the acclaim he  deserves though. smile

      10. knolyourself profile image61
        knolyourselfposted 4 years ago

        Don't think they got to meet with him. Wouldn't think that he would need much security. Only fellons that need security.

        1. Hollie Thomas profile image60
          Hollie Thomasposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Only fellons that need security.
          Nary a truer word spoken. big_smile

      11. Will Apse profile image92
        Will Apseposted 4 years ago

        The problem with US foreign policy is not that it is evil. It is just so often ill informed.

        Bush really did believe that he could bring Western-style democracy to Iraq. Rumsfeld believed no great plan was needed post-invasion because he thought a free people would spontaneously develop an orderly civil society.

        A lot of this silliness comes from believing that there is something natural in the way that Western democracies are organized and somehow these democracies are the only true expression of what it is to be human.

        This naivety is touching but downright dangerous.

        On the whole, though, if there is only going to be one superpower it's better to have one that actually wants to do good even if it often often ends up doing evil.

        It would be better still to have a superpower who's leadership traveled a little more and read a little more widely.

        1. Josak profile image60
          Josakposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Depends on the period, there has been a lot of US policy aimed at preventing democracy.

          1. KMI Rebel Yell profile image60
            KMI Rebel Yellposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            My dear sir,

            You are spending an inordinate amount of time and effort to defame the United States of America. Meanwhile, you are supporting your family with the economic system and freedom of use that we so generously and adequately provide. I suspect this is the work of an unappreciative scoundrel, or an outright liar.

            Our founding fathers were wise to ensure freedom of speech. Any fool can criticize anything they so choose at their own will. Ultimately, any fool will be exposed by their own lips.

            1. Josak profile image60
              Josakposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Dear sir

              This is Operation condor: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Condor

              It was a US backed and and funded operation to torture and kill anyone who called for democracy throughout the South American continent, it was responsible for the deaths of almost my entire family what I am saying are facts, educate yourself before you open your mouth in ignorance.

              1. KMI Rebel Yell profile image60
                KMI Rebel Yellposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                As previously stated.

                1. Josak profile image60
                  Josakposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Excellent answer :p don't worry i don't expect you to understand, how could you with your sheltered life never exposed to what I am talking about?

                  If you like I can tell you what a CIA operative did to my step mother blow by blow for six months before drowning her in a barrel of human waste and having her body dropped from a plane out to sea but I think you might sleep better without knowing.

                  1. KMI Rebel Yell profile image60
                    KMI Rebel Yellposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    I reiterate, sir.

                    1. Josak profile image60
                      Josakposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                      There is nothing of worth to reiterate.

                      1. Lavoris Palmolive profile image60
                        Lavoris Palmoliveposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                        Deleted

                  2. 0
                    SassySue1963posted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    @Josak
                    Your claims bring many questions to my mind, however, many of them are simply none of my business so I won't ask them. However, your claim that it was a "CIA operative" would be a false one. The case for US involvement in supporting certain governments of Latin America are founded in fact. Claims that the US government actually sponsored and condoned Operation Condor itself are spurious at best. However, what we do know is that there were no CIA condoned operatives involved directly with anything that occurred inside the country. It is entirely possible that I've misunderstood your use of the term "CIA Operative".

                    1. Josak profile image60
                      Josakposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                      I know for a fact there were CIA operatives/operatives specifically trained by the US. A branch of the Montoneros in Rosario captured an American sent to train Argentine interrogators in psychological torture (a few favored tactics were impregnating the women by rape and telling them they would kill the fetus if they did not talk and torturing loved one in front of suspected leftists) while I was a member of the MFE, the truth is American's don't /know/ anything about the CIA actions in South America because they would never be told, just like how the CIA is not supposed to kill foreign leaders so it simply farms out assassination orders, some for which are now a matter of public record, so were there actual CIA operatives in South America? Hard to say, were there CIA directed operatives? Yes without a doubt I know several people who interrogated one.

                      1. 0
                        SassySue1963posted 4 years ago in reply to this

                        "In January 1974 CIA issued a directive to all CIA staff to collect clandestine information on torture in Chile; this message directed CIA staff to work through all available agents and channels of influence to induce the Chilean Government to modify repressive measures, particularly to eliminate torture.  CIA actively used its contacts, especially with members of services notorious for human rights abuses, to emphasize that human rights abuses were detrimental to the government’s credibility within their own country, damaging to their international reputation, and unacceptable to the US Government.  In some cases, such contacts enabled the CIA to obtain intelligence on human rights abuses that would not have otherwise been available. "

                        While I understand what you are attempting to claim now, it still is not truth. There were contacts within Chile that were known to be involved in human rights abuses. Some were severed, some were continued in order for the CIA to have some manner of collecting information on these abuses. So, no, there was not a "directed" CIA operative committing these abuses but a CIA "contact" could definitely have been involved.

          2. Will Apse profile image92
            Will Apseposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Well, foreign policy has always been about promoting and defending a nations interest's. For capitalist nations that means opening and maintaining markets for its goods, defense of its trade routes and surety of raw materials.

            The US, at least, has taken the client states approach rather than formal empire. The vicious dictators it supported in the past to further its ends are now seen as unreliable so suddenly its spreading democracy. There are worse objectives. With a defter touch it might even work.

            Also, imagine, if Nazi Germany or the USSR had achieved world dominance?

            I'ts all degrees of evil and the US gets a decent pass on the 'nowhere near as evil as the alternatives' scale and 'better than previous empires' scale too.

            If you have been tortured in the cause of its grand machinations, you will probably think differently, of course.

            1. Suzie Crumcakes profile image61
              Suzie Crumcakesposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Boy, you are at this 24/7. Don't you ever get bored doing the same thing over and over and over and over and over and over . . . .

              1. Will Apse profile image92
                Will Apseposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                lol. I certainly have staying power.

                1. Suzie Crumcakes profile image61
                  Suzie Crumcakesposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  I like a man with staying power.

            2. Josak profile image60
              Josakposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              No I understand that and I agree, I don't think the US had any place exerting it's force on sovereign nations as it did but I both understand and forgive, it's simply a matter of preventing it from occurring again, in the modern era I agree that the main problem in international policy is ignorance rather than malicious greed as it has been in the past.

              The United fruit war for example comes to mind as a period when the US crushed democracies and murdered hundreds of thousands for simple profit, thankfully no longer.

      12. Nick Hanlon profile image60
        Nick Hanlonposted 4 years ago

        Lavoris Palmolive ...there is no need for abuse on this forum.It just makes you look small and pathetic when you do so.

        1. kirstenblog profile image76
          kirstenblogposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          what do they say about an argument where you have to resort to name calling and rude language?
          I know there is a saying about that.....

        2. PrettyPanther profile image85
          PrettyPantherposted 4 years ago

          I have never hit the "Report" button, and I won't now, but I am sorely tempted.

          1. Josak profile image60
            Josakposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Yeah have to agree.

        3. Will Apse profile image92
          Will Apseposted 4 years ago

          This forum needs some cogent conservatives. The ones we have here just can't hack it.

          1. Josak profile image60
            Josakposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Yeah where's Jaxson when you need him.

        4. Nick Hanlon profile image60
          Nick Hanlonposted 4 years ago

          Some people are really covering themselves in glory on this one!

          1. 0
            SassySue1963posted 4 years ago in reply to this

            lol Yeah I stayed away from this one for the most part. I think, unless you are under some oppressive dictator, most people believe their country is exceptional.
            However, every country works for its own interests in foreign affairs, something we currently are not doing, and to our detriment as every other nation around us continues to do so.

            1. Josak profile image60
              Josakposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Out of genuine curiosity where do you feel we are not working for our own interests?

        5. JSChams profile image60
          JSChamsposted 4 years ago

          I have always been struck by the apparent notion that anything bad the US ever did always outweighs anything good the US ever did.
          That also holds true for the concept that their are other nations who have no business pointing fingers at the US.
          The reason it is considered exceptional is it's history of being a beacon of hope and opportunity to the world. Why else would we still have so many trying to come here legally or illegally?
          Another thing that makes it exceptional is the Constitution. This is not a Democracy it is a Republic.
          In a Democracy the majority rules. The Constitution protects the individual fro the majority.

          1. JSChams profile image60
            JSChamsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Oh and also....I hear lots of complaining but I never hear any real solutions.
            None that preserve freedom and liberty.

            1. Josak profile image60
              Josakposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              What you mean is "solutions I like" which is a very different thing.

              1. JSChams profile image60
                JSChamsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                No.....solutions that work Josak.....and preserve liberty and freedom which is apparently what you think we need to lose some of.

                1. Josak profile image60
                  Josakposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Depends how you mean, there are an awful lot of liberties I would increase if it were up to me one or two economic ones I would limit.

          2. Josak profile image60
            Josakposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            It doesn't really work that way now does it? I can be an amazing human being my whole life but if I go murder a few children it's not how I will be remembered is it? The US has done good things and bad things, simple as that, the US did the world a great service in WWII (albeit after a long time and only after being attacked) but equally has done truly horrible things, neither cancels out the other.

            Most developed nations have a constitution and constitutional republics abound.

            1. Suzie Crumcakes profile image61
              Suzie Crumcakesposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Like the People's Republic of China? I hope you don't plan on a big family.

              1. Josak profile image60
                Josakposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Yeah China is not a Republic tongue unfortunately there is no copyright on that term, that does not change the fact that there are plenty of real constitutional republics.

          3. Will Apse profile image92
            Will Apseposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            The US is not a democracy? So the whole business of voting in elections in the US is just a farce? And anyone who imagines that the majority deserve some say in their country are just fools?

            1. JSChams profile image60
              JSChamsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              It's a Constitutional Republic. The Democratic process is used in our elections and legislation.

            2. Suzie Crumcakes profile image61
              Suzie Crumcakesposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              You're going to say that and you believed Josak's whopper?

              1. Will Apse profile image92
                Will Apseposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                I think I've decided that you are not worth taking any note of.

                1. Suzie Crumcakes profile image61
                  Suzie Crumcakesposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Like you are on the best seller's list.

        6. JSChams profile image60
          JSChamsposted 4 years ago

          I think the topic is getting skewed here. The point is that America is exceptional because it was built by the melting pot. Immigrants came from other nations.....legally...and built businesses and communities.
          No other nation in the world has the success at that or the legacy thereof.
          America is exceptional. The only way we maintain that is by ensuring our liberties.

          1. Suzie Crumcakes profile image61
            Suzie Crumcakesposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Free to party!

          2. PrettyPanther profile image85
            PrettyPantherposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            I agree with you that America has been exceptional, if you define exceptional as unusual or extraordinary.  One can be exceptional and still have serious flaws.

            1. JSChams profile image60
              JSChamsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Just as I have said the flaws are always used to outweigh the good works.
              America is exceptional because of it's people. we have allowed two political parties to grow fat and happy on the largess. There is your flaw. Fix that and we are golden.

        7. prettydarkhorse profile image64
          prettydarkhorseposted 4 years ago

          Exceptional, according to whom and what standards?

          1. JSChams profile image60
            JSChamsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Read some of my posts above and get back to me.

        8. KK Trainor profile image61
          KK Trainorposted 4 years ago

          Met a new firefighter at work last night, just in from London Fire Service. Moved there a couple of years ago from his home country of South Africa, where he served in the military for some time. When I asked him why he left London to come here guess what he said? 

          "For a better way of life for myself and my family."

          Shocking!

          1. Josak profile image60
            Josakposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Well statistically he made a bad move... Quality of life is higher in the UK at #19 than the US in at 31.

            http://nationranking.files.wordpress.co … 1-qli2.png



            But I guess 'way" of life is hard to define.

            1. Suzie Crumcakes profile image61
              Suzie Crumcakesposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Is this your full time job? You have been at this since early this morning?

              1. Josak profile image60
                Josakposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                I'm watching the Olympics at the same time tongue

                1. Suzie Crumcakes profile image61
                  Suzie Crumcakesposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  The marathon?

              2. Hollie Thomas profile image60
                Hollie Thomasposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Have you been watching him all day?

                1. Suzie Crumcakes profile image61
                  Suzie Crumcakesposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  I guess so, kind of. My notifications thing keeps going off. I guess I should ignore it. He is spending all of his time Badmouthing the USA. I think we should take his green card away and send him back where he came from. i'm sure he can put his talents to good use there, and he won't have so much to complain about. He will be in a much better place. They won't let him pop off so much though.

          2. Hollie Thomas profile image60
            Hollie Thomasposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Yes, you asked him why he left London, but you don't say whether he thinks he's found what he was looking for. I'm not saying that he hasn't, but you also have to think about where in London he previously lived- there are ghettos around the corner from Chelsea, you know.

            And, what does he define as a better life? A warmer climate, more money a better house, greater job prospects- What? "A better life " is quite vague.

            1. KK Trainor profile image61
              KK Trainorposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Well he has only been here for 6 months and he is quite pleased thus far. He and his wife are both employed and when green cards are all finalized they will be looking for a house to buy. This was one of the major reasons they wanted to come here, the cost of living is very low in Texas, but you get a lot for your money. He has family here and is planning on staying forever. So, maybe it wouldn't work for everyone, but why not believe that it may work for some?

              1. Hollie Thomas profile image60
                Hollie Thomasposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Oh I do. I have a friend who lives in California, she emigrated there 15 years ago and she's happy. She and her husband went out there with two other friends, man and wife, but the friends could not settle and returned. Property prices in London are exorbitant to say the least- in most parts, even the not so good neighborhoods you practically have to be a millionaire to buy a property.

                There are cheaper places though, Wales is beautiful and was, is, I think, still pretty inexpensive. Personally, if I ever emigrated, and I would never rule that out, I might go to Texas- it always looks so sunny and warm.

                1. JSChams profile image60
                  JSChamsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Now I will be fair here...I thoroughly enjoyed all the time I spent in Europe in the seventies. But I live here and while those places were charming they aren't home.

                  1. Lemuel Martin profile image61
                    Lemuel Martinposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Europe is quite nice too.

                2. KK Trainor profile image61
                  KK Trainorposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Oh it's definitely warm (98 outside right now and I'm about to hop on the Harley and ride to work) but the cost of living makes it very desirable. Plus low taxes on business, low property taxes, and lost of big cities to choose from!

                  1. Josak profile image60
                    Josakposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Loved Texas, now if you could just do something about those governors you pick up ... tongue

        9. JSChams profile image60
          JSChamsposted 4 years ago

          I can't help but notice that most of the questioners of exceptionalism here either don't live here, are self-proclaimed expatriates, or believe socialism is the way to utopia.
          That explains much.

          1. Josak profile image60
            Josakposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            I can't help but notice that you have been completely unable to show a single factual way in which the US is exceptional. That says a lot more. I just follow the facts.

            1. JSChams profile image60
              JSChamsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Josak.....your "facts" are sometimes suspect as they come from biased sources.
              Do you think the folks living here and folks like KK Trainor are talking about went about to Wikipedia and stuff before they made their decision?
              Not likely. Live where you want to live.

              1. Josak profile image60
                Josakposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                My sources are always independent authorities responsible for the data, World Bank, World Health Org and the  OECD thus far in this thread.

                Sure I agree I said the same thing earlier, different countries suit different people better I am sure there are many people for whom the US is the best country to live but that does not make the US exceptional.

                1. JSChams profile image60
                  JSChamsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  See my point being KK had an example of some folks who LEGALLY immigrated her and love it and are enjoying great success. That was followed by you and Hollie seeming to be amazed they would feel that way. That obviously they did not know better.

                  1. Josak profile image60
                    Josakposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    I wasn't amazed people making a statistic mistake is hardly a surprise I just put it in context of the facts. I like facts because they are true and as much as people try to twist them or avoid them they will remain true.

                    1. JSChams profile image60
                      JSChamsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                      Josak...you are really an alright guy. But you scare me sometimes. Do you look at statistics to decide what to put in your omelet?

                      1. Josak profile image60
                        Josakposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                        tongue not the first time I have heard that one, no it's that I am an economist and that is what we are taught to do, create hypothesis and test against the facts. It's a great method.

                2. KMI Rebel Yell profile image60
                  KMI Rebel Yellposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Deleted

                  1. Josak profile image60
                    Josakposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Hey it's ok, dumb answers are the only response people without facts or knowledge have tongue

                3. KMI Rebel Yell profile image60
                  KMI Rebel Yellposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  http://wpcontent.answcdn.com/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/ba/The_Three_Stooges.jpg/250px-The_Three_Stooges.jpg

          2. Josak profile image60
            Josakposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Also have you perhaps considered that asking Americans if America is awesome might not be the route to an unbiased and correct answer? tongue

          3. Hollie Thomas profile image60
            Hollie Thomasposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            I question exceptionalism of any country, not least my own. And that's because when we talk about a nation as being exceptional, we are really talking about politicians being exceptional because we are talking about policy. I'm 45 years old and can only think of one politician as exceptional (no, it's not Obama) If the question was "Are American citizens exceptional?" I'd say there is absolutely no doubt that there are many exceptional American citizens, just as there are many exceptional Brits, Indians, Canadians etc. Exceptional as in they stand our from their counterparts- but not exceptional because of their nationality. See where I'm coming from, does it make sense? I'm not expressing myself very well today.

            1. Josak profile image60
              Josakposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Makes perfect sense to me.

              1. JSChams profile image60
                JSChamsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Of course it does, you are both socialists. You think that's the way to utopia. Just what I was pointing out. You will not like this nation unless it turns that way.

                1. Josak profile image60
                  Josakposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  That point had nothing at all to do with socialism... at all. I also don't believe in utopia's. You never ever make factual points or logically proven ones.

                  1. JSChams profile image60
                    JSChamsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Josak your thoughts and opinions are steeped in it. It is your world view. I know this based on many long conversations here.
                    Speaking of World view all those sources you cited are just that.

                    1. Josak profile image60
                      Josakposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                      No... Those are cold hard facts independently collected, I know the idea is foreign to you tongue  in the absence of any evidence, when one has no proof simply claim there is no such thing big_smile nice try though.

                      I am a socialist, that is an economic system, it has nothing to do with the point being discussed which was non economic.

                      1. KK Trainor profile image61
                        KK Trainorposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                        We're not really here talking about Socialism, but I have to ask. You don't really think that Socialism only affects the economy of a nation do you? Not the daily lives of the people that live under that system, just economics? What about the choices they have for services, or the employment opportunities they might not have? I say it is much more than an economic system, what do you say?

                        1. JSChams profile image60
                          JSChamsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                          This will get interesting......

                        2. Hollie Thomas profile image60
                          Hollie Thomasposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                          This is where you are mistaking communism and socialism. Socialist values, as with any ideology affect society-economically and socially. Any economic change will bring social change, of course it will. But true socialism is about equality, including economic and  social aspiration. Every one is equal, but not the same, you're thinking of communism.

                        3. Josak profile image60
                          Josakposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                          Well... firstly let me say, saying a socialist system is as diverse as saying a capitalist system  there are very many different adaptations in many of the more authoritarian forms I would agree with you and I don't like them. In the form of socialism I favor no the changes are pretty much entirely economic in the public ownership of the means of production.

                          Sorry if that is too simplistic an answer but it's not really the right thread for a longer one.

                2. Hollie Thomas profile image60
                  Hollie Thomasposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  I don't believe in utopia's either- you're thinking communist. I don't believe that utopia's are either possible, feasible or desirable. JS, I don't dislike your nation, at least no more than I dislike my own. You must have heard me say a million times, it's not just the US who are responsible for... The point I'm trying to make, is that one nation is not better than another purely because of their geographical location.

                  1. KK Trainor profile image61
                    KK Trainorposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    I don't think anyone said it was about geographical location. But you would have to admit that the US would be preferable to, say Antarctica?

                    1. Josak profile image60
                      Josakposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                      Now that is a good point tongue Enviromental and mineral are a decent measure of exceptionality (is that a word) maybe...

                    2. Hollie Thomas profile image60
                      Hollie Thomasposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                      Antarctica's pretty cold, so probably. And the polar bears, definitely not for me.

                    3. Hollie Thomas profile image60
                      Hollie Thomasposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                      So what is about? What can America offer that say France, Britain or Canada cannot?

                      1. Lemuel Martin profile image61
                        Lemuel Martinposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                        Opportunity. Lower taxes. College football.

                        1. Josak profile image60
                          Josakposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                          I believe there is higher income mobility in all those countries. The other two are correct... Of course the US can't offer free education though uni/college, free healthcare and the lower crime rates etc.

                        2. Hollie Thomas profile image60
                          Hollie Thomasposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                          But there is opportunity in France, Canada, Britain. In terms of lower taxes, London tops them all. If you're extremely wealthy you can come here and pay, well, about 1% in taxes. To top it off, you can have the unemployed work for you for absolutely nothing, except their benefits. It's called workfare.

                      2. KK Trainor profile image61
                        KK Trainorposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                        First of all, no one said those countries were not exceptional also. Second, I like many other countries, having spent long periods in Wales and Greece, and traveled all over Europe. I also lived in places I would never want to return to.

                        The question wasn't "Is America the best country?",  it was "Is America an exceptional nation?"

                        1. Hollie Thomas profile image60
                          Hollie Thomasposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                          But if we're using the term exceptional, we're suggesting that America is a better nation than the rest.

                        2. Nick Hanlon profile image60
                          Nick Hanlonposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                          Thanx KKTrainor for being the adult in the room.

            2. JSChams profile image60
              JSChamsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Oh no..........the politicians in both parties are responsible for the degradation of our nation. That does not change the fat that when the chips are down Americans come through.

              1. Hollie Thomas profile image60
                Hollie Thomasposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Yes, and the politicians of all colours are responsible for my nations declining values, economics, education etc. But many nations always come through- that is down to the human spirit, not nationalism.

                1. Lemuel Martin profile image61
                  Lemuel Martinposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  It is up to us to build our own communities. If you wait on the government (any government), it may take forever. It is definitely an issue of the human spirit, outreach, relationship, and cooperation

                  1. Hollie Thomas profile image60
                    Hollie Thomasposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Absolutely.

        10. Hollie Thomas profile image60
          Hollie Thomasposted 4 years ago

          @suzie Crumbcakes- England, I can't sit around on the dole. Wondered which sock, now I know.
          Go wait tables in your exceptional nation. lol

          1. Suzie Crumcakes profile image61
            Suzie Crumcakesposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            I will, and I love it! I make more in one night at Yellow Dog's than you do in a week on the dole. We have valet parking.  cool

            1. Hollie Thomas profile image60
              Hollie Thomasposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Ok.

        11. Hollie Thomas profile image60
          Hollie Thomasposted 4 years ago

          @josak, I'll find some links for you.

          1. Josak profile image60
            Josakposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            much appreciated.

        12. knolyourself profile image61
          knolyourselfposted 4 years ago

          Yellow dog democrat.

          1. Hollie Thomas profile image60
            Hollie Thomasposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            smile

          2. KMI Rebel Yell profile image60
            KMI Rebel Yellposted 4 years ago

            American is a special place. Thanks for visiting. I took a picture of ya'll to remember the form by.

            http://www.clownbluey.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/Clown_Fireman_Bluey_Bognor_Regis_1987.jpg

            1. Josak profile image60
              Josakposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              You have a truly awful sense of humor... combined apparently with a terrible upbringing since you spend your time making crass jokes about hubbers who have passed away.

          3. Will Apse profile image92
            Will Apseposted 4 years ago

            Well. on the menu for this evening are some exceptional Americans.

            I have "Don't look Back", haven't seen it in 25 years but I reckon it probably still has something. (fun with journalists)

            A little reading: Wise Blood, (fun with Protestants).

            Apparently the best movie ever, if you believe the critics 'Vertigo' (fun with perspective).

            And background music from Bill Evans when it is needed (fun with piano keys).

            Tomorrow it will The Brothers Karamazov, some Beethoven Quartets and The Economist.

            Because life is too short for fun.

          4. paradigmsearch profile image91
            paradigmsearchposted 4 years ago

            "Is American an Exceptional Nation?"

            We have our moments.

          5. KMI Rebel Yell profile image60
            KMI Rebel Yellposted 4 years ago

            I can feel the seething jealousy. Be of good cheer, you can still join us, we have not quit accepting applications for statehood.

          6. Will Apse profile image92
            Will Apseposted 4 years ago

            Okay, time for some home truths. The US is exceptional for its isolation. My local bar has plenty of Americans and we are kind to them. We don't expect them to pick up on nuances. We don't expect a broad, well-informed view. They want to talk about baseball, we let them.

            The US may be the most advanced capitalist nation (A-plus for business) but on every other level it has been getting by for the last 200 years on what it inherited from Britain, Britain bequeathed the sum total of the wisdom that it had acquired by the end of the 18th Century, It wasn't much but went something like -- democracy can work with separation of powers, an independent judiciary and a free press. A capitalist economy can be made to work with the ideas of Adam Smith and David Ricardo.

            After that, we see plenty of elaboration of these basic ideas in the US but nothing new.

            There is a kind of time warp, an absence of social, political and ethical evolution.

            For heavens sake, the next President might be an evangelical Mormon! Is there any intellectual ghetto, isolated moral stance, or far-removed-from-the-modern-world figure that could compete for sheer time warpishness?

            lol. Everyday is Groundhog day in American politics.

            1. Lemuel Martin profile image61
              Lemuel Martinposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Everyday is Groundhog Day on the HubPages forums.

              1. paradigmsearch profile image91
                paradigmsearchposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                lol

            2. 0
              Sophia Angeliqueposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              You said it, Will Apse, better than I ever could. The only reason these people think they are exceptional is because they have never traveled - because they say it's 'too expensive.' That one gets me every single time. The people of the richest nation on earth don't travel because they can't afford to. So they remain blissfully unaware of where they really are...

              If you mention that the citizens of other countries can travel, they will tell you that Europe is a small country and, therefore, people can easily go from country to country because it's like going from State to State in America. Explain to them that people in other parts of the world go from continent to continent and that it's world travel, not just European travel, and they will tell you that they have everything in the States and there's so much to see in their own country that there's no need to see other countries because America has it all.

              To muddle a proverb, somewhat. You can lead a blind horse to the water, but you can't make it see.

              1. twosheds1 profile image61
                twosheds1posted 4 years ago in reply to this

                That's correct, we can't afford it. When you are trying to keep your house, blowing a grand on a Euro vacation doesn't seem like too smart an idea.

                1. 0
                  Sophia Angeliqueposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Twosheds,

                  And that's exactly it. smile

                  You see, the rest of us don't see it as a 'vacation,' but as a rite of passage. Even Prince Harry and Prince William took a GAP YEAR and went traveling for a year. It's not a vacation. It's a part of one's education. We put a rucksack on our backs, take about $2000 in cash, pay for an annual return ticket (which generally costs about $600 in low season) and then go travel from country to country, working our way around. Like I said, it's not considered a vacation.  Yes, it's fun, but it's still not a two week vacation staying in 5 star hotels, going to the tourist spots, and having too much food.

                  It's something that is done while one is young, before one is married.

                  In London, the entire temp industry is comprised of people from other countries. The laws are set up so that people under 26 can work there for two years in temp positions so that they earn money while they travel. In other parts of the world, young people work in the fields, the clubs, or wherever they can to make the money for the next part of their journey.

                  When I first came to America, I stayed at the International Youth Hostel. Guess what. There were people from Australia, England, Germany, South America, and all over the world. And guess what they were doing? They were going to all the stores and asking for 'under the table' work where they could earn a few dollars for the next part of their journey. And, yes, the next part of their journey might be getting on a Greyhound bus and traveling across the States for six months, and somewhere along the time, in a year or two, they would have seen the world, and then they go home - better informed, more skilled, more mature, with a far greater picture of what is really going on in this world.

                  Again, it says something about the narrowness of American culture that the only way travel is viewed is as an expensive vacation.

                  1. 0
                    SassySue1963posted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    lol You do realize that all of Europe fits inside the Continental US with plenty of room left over? It is much more economical for Europeans to flit about their continent than for Americans to go flit about Europe.

                    As for traveling, many young people here do much the same thing. They simply choose to travel across the country, or up into Canada or down to Mexico (not as much this right now). While you'll still get some Americans that have gone over to Europe to back-pack for a summer, most do it here. And I'm sure it is the same way with Europeans. Sure they'll be some coming over here, but the bulk of them do so in their own backyard.

                    @Will
                    I'd question exactly what his being a Mormon has to do with anything. Does that mean you think anyone who believes in God is 200 years behind the times?

                    1. KK Trainor profile image61
                      KK Trainorposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                      Great points about the travel. We do tend to travel our own country because it's just easier than flying overseas. Sure, lots of us do travel abroad too, but what's wrong with seeing America the beautiful? Europeans tend to think this makes us ignorant and small minded, I think they are snobs. So, who's right? I also think the liberal vacation policies in many European countries make it a lot easier for them to take all those long trips. Which is why we're so much more productive than them as a nation.

                    2. 0
                      Sophia Angeliqueposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                      And you do realize you can fit America into Africa twice over. And that America can fit into all the continents, i.e. Europe, Africa, Asia, Australia six times over with space to spare.

                      Travel means traveling on different continents, i.e. going to Australia, Africa, Europe, South America, America, Asia, etc.

                      You obviously didn't read what I wrote because I wrote that and you replied exactly what I said you would. Why is it that so many of you reply to things you don't read?

                      1. 0
                        SassySue1963posted 4 years ago in reply to this

                        You obviously didn't read what I wrote. That the majority of both sides travel in their own backyard. For you, your backyard consists of many different countries due to proximity. For us, our backyard consists of states, Canada and Mexico. I was giving you the benefit of the doubt, but perhaps the other poster is correct and you are just a snob.

                        1. 0
                          Sophia Angeliqueposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                          You're mistaken.SassySue1963

                          I've traveled to four continents. Most people I know have traveled to two or three. That does not count Americans.

                        2. Josak profile image60
                          Josakposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                          Perhaps the point is that because of the size of the US most Americans never leave it... I don't thin it's their fault but the functional consequence is Americans are less well traveled than the citizens of most first world countries, I think.

                          This would/could mean Americans have less experience of the world and thus misconceptions about it.

                          1. Mighty Mom profile image90
                            Mighty Momposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                            According to my research, Americans visit Europe and Europeans visit the U.S. in just about equal numbers. (10 million to Europe  vs. 11 million to U.S. per year).
                            Given that Europe's total population is 857 million whereas the U.S. population is 312 million, on a per citizen basis, Americans actually ARE traveling to Europe more than we might assume.
                            Not sure we can make the claim that person for person 2.75 times more Americans visit Europe than vice versa....
                            Hmmm.

          7. twosheds1 profile image61
            twosheds1posted 4 years ago

            Must be nice. Some of us have to work for a living. That's not saying I don't want to travel or don't travel, it's just that I have to prioritize my expenses. When I got out of college I had to start working right away to pay off my student loan debt. While I was in college, the only travel I could afford was Dead tour. ;-)

          8. Nick Hanlon profile image60
            Nick Hanlonposted 4 years ago

            Well some of the Americans I've met are very well travelled.Been to Afghanistan,Iraq,Kuwait,Vietnam...met some interesting people there....then shot them.

            1. 0
              SassySue1963posted 4 years ago in reply to this

              smh@Nick c'mon man.

              Australia Vietnam: " Approximately 60,000 Australians served in the war; 521 were killed and more than 3,000 were wounded."
              Australia Iraq (I) : "Australia later provided one of the four most substantial combat force contingents during the 2003 invasion of Iraq, under the operational codename Operation Falconer."
              Australia Afghanistan: "A senior Australian Defence Force officer has revealed details of how the Royal Australian Air Force deploys Israeli-owned drones for battlefield surveillance and to target anti-government Islamic fighters in Afghanistan."

              So you can cut it with the "oh Americans just go shoot people" BS.

              1. Josak profile image60
                Josakposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                So wait... because Australians followed their ally into wars the US starts that somehow makes the US less internationally aggressive?

                1. 0
                  SassySue1963posted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  We start? Did we invade Kuwait? Who begged for our help from Hussein? Was he warned not to invade his neighbor? Did we start the only two world wars? No, don't believe we did. But we certainly bailed everyone out when it all went to Hell didn't we? And then we helped them rebuild their countries. And what do we get for it? Told how evil we are and treated like scum in many of those so-called "allied" countries of ours. You Josak, are just a bigot. And I don't for one minute believe you are a citizen of the United States.

                  1. Josak profile image60
                    Josakposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Well I tried being polite.

                    YOU mentioned Vietnam, Iraq 2003 and Afghanistan which you really ought to know were YES all started by the US so if you want to make a comment on those wars then don't be surprised when you get an answer on those wars, one would think it self evident but obviously you struggle with the concept of a reply.

                    There is absolutely nothing bigoted about pointing out that the wars you used to suggest that Australia was as internationally aggressive as the US were all started by the US and that Australia went along as a faithful ally (often without the support of the public) that is FACT.

                    As for not believing I am American: A) you have no idea B) it's completely irrelevant and C) while you accuse me of being a bigot on the basis of no evidence at all the fact that you bring up as some sort of separating factor my perceived non citizenship shows quite clearly that YOU are the bigot and a xenophobe.

                    In future try to keep track of the comments you make it will make understanding the replies a tiny bit easier for you.

                    1. 0
                      SassySue1963posted 4 years ago in reply to this

                      Actually, Nick mentioned them. I merely replied because he had mentioned in another forum that he was from Australia. It's funny how you say WE started them. Why isn't it the Communist Party trying to take over who started them? Or, the (at that time) USSR who started them? My reply was to Nick's comment. In the future, perhaps YOU should learn to actually READ the thread and pay attention. You are a bigot. You are biased against Americans and America in general. Bigot does not have to be racial in nature.

                      Forgot. Just because I call you out on your lie does not make me a xenophobe. It just makes me wise to your BS.

                      Wait! Josak just answered the question! YES! We are definitely an exceptional nation because we absolutely must be exceptional to get other nations to blindly follow us into bloody conflicts that we've started for no good reason at all without the approval or in the best interest of their own country and citizens. There must be something exceptional about us as a whole to be able to do that.

                      1. Josak profile image60
                        Josakposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                        So you really really don't know your history huh?

                        Vietnam was started by US, Vietnam was scheduled for free elections that would have unified the country as communist we stopped those elections then we fabricated the gulf of Tomkin incident to justify an invasion, all these things are matter of public record and FACT.

                        We started Iraq 2003 because... well no one is quite sure but statedly because they had weapons of mas destruction which as it turns out it appears they did not, we certainly started that war. FACT.

                        We started Afghanistan because they asked for proof of quilt before surrendering several suspected terrorists (in accordance with international law) we decided that wasn't good enough and invaded them but the Afghan government had nothing to do with planning/executing  so yes we started that war, FACT.

                        If that is the qualification mark for being exceptional there are w whole lot of exceptional countries.

                        Obviously you don't know the first thing about me so your claim on citizenship is baseless and laughable. All I have stated is facts, the problem is for nationalists who have never had a thought on the matter except rote learning a different opinion is apparently unacceptable, because you are a bigot.

                      2. 0
                        Sophia Angeliqueposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                        SassySue...

                        QUOTE FROM YOU: "We are definitely an exceptional nation because we absolutely must be exceptional to get other nations to blindly follow us into bloody conflicts that we've started for no good reason at all without the approval or in the best interest of their own country and citizens."

                        You are truly joking.

                        I was living in London when Bush wanted to invade Iraq. There was an international uproar. The British nation were totally and absolutely and utterly against going into Iraq. Tony Blair kept asking Bush to wait two weeks for the United Nations to verify that there were no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq.  Bush refused point blank.

                        So why did Tony Blair sent British Troops in spite of massive British and European opposition? Memory of WWII? An agreement half a century ago that Britain was an ally to America? He said as much.

                        So here's the thing.

                        It's not going to happen again. Tony Blair lost his premiership because of the violent anger the Brits had about invading Iraq.

                        And there were no weapons of mass destruction. Everybody in the world knew that except Americans who were lied to by their government.

                        So let's fast forward into the future. Romney gets into power. Romney, religious idiot that he is, will drop a bomb on Iran. And that will be that. The world will turn against this country in a way that you have no idea. They will go to war against this country, refuse to trade with her, demand payment for her outstanding debts, remove the reserve currency from her, and more. You have no idea.

                        America might have the greatest military arsenal the world has ever known, but that is all she has. She has a mere 350 million people. There are 7 billion people in the world, and the majority are not friendly towards this country. 

                        When you can't feed yourselves, when you have no more oil to run your cars because no one will sell to you, when China no more manufactures your goods, and more, what are you going to do?

                        I wonder...

                        1. KK Trainor profile image61
                          KK Trainorposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                          Utterly ridiculous nonsense. I don't know where you get your info on Romney, but you are way off base.

                          1. Ralph Deeds profile image69
                            Ralph Deedsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                            Yes, she is. Romney will never be president of the US. He's not equipped for the job.

                          2. 0
                            Sophia Angeliqueposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                            Same place you do. Only I'm probably a better judge of character. smile Wait and see.

                        2. 0
                          SassySue1963posted 4 years ago in reply to this

                          First off, it's sarcasm. In reply to Josak and his comment about everyone blindly following the US no matter what they do. Get a grip people.

                          @Sophia And what exactly makes you a better judge of character than anyone else? Apparently, we've just uncovered YOUR particular bias. I quote "religious idiot that he is". So we see now...religious people are idiots in your opinion. I think I'll trust my own judgement of character in this instance thank you very much.

                          Bigot. Whatever. That is the new character of the liberal left so I guess you're all good loyal liberals. Someone doesn't agree with you, calls out your character insults with facts and they're either a bigot, a racist, or a xenophobe. Yep. Good little liberals. Drink down the kool-aid. Ignore the facts.

                          1. Cody Hodge profile image85
                            Cody Hodgeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                            Ahem...its progressives

                            Liberal is just a derogatory term coined by the GOP

                          2. 0
                            Sophia Angeliqueposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                            Sassy Sue,

                            Not only is sarcasm is the lowest form of wit but it's extremely difficult to see in the written word.

                            I didn't say that I was a better judge of character than anyone else. I said I must be a better judge of character than you if you cannot see what I see in Romney. I believe I also said time will tell. If I'm wrong, I'll gladly eat dirt later... smile


                            The rest isn't worth responding to. smile

                    2. Lemuel Martin profile image61
                      Lemuel Martinposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                      You talked too long. You're busted!

            2. KK Trainor profile image61
              KK Trainorposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              That is a disgusting thing to say.

              1. Ralph Deeds profile image69
                Ralph Deedsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                But quite true.

          9. Wizard Of Whimsy profile image61
            Wizard Of Whimsyposted 4 years ago

            http://0.tqn.com/d/politicalhumor/1/0/h/w/3/American-Exceptionalism.jpg

            http://img.allvoices.com/thumbs/image/609/609/91368579-american-exceptionalism.jpg

            http://media.mlive.com/elections_impact/photo/100815beelertoon-cjpg-b5f0645eb372a848.jpg

            http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSSTapQDCSXmbikC60b49EoD8NHQpRCXsYV47A-Xq5Q93wYHEq5xgRj-j9J4Q

            1. KMI Rebel Yell profile image60
              KMI Rebel Yellposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Your moniker is apropos. Thanks, I needed a good laugh! If you take yourself too seriously, you will implode.

              1. Wizard Of Whimsy profile image61
                Wizard Of Whimsyposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                http://home.comcast.net/~wizardofwhimsy/kisskiss.gif

                1. KMI Rebel Yell profile image60
                  KMI Rebel Yellposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  That feels so good! Don't stop now!

          10. Mighty Mom profile image90
            Mighty Momposted 4 years ago

            The exceptional standard-bearers at Fox News have declared gold medal-winning Olympians anti-American.
            Good to know what is and is not "exceptional" representation of our country.
            roll

            http://veracitystew.com/2012/08/08/fox- … ough-video

            1. Hollie Thomas profile image60
              Hollie Thomasposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Oh my gosh, I mean, their just soft American Olympiads and EVERYONE has noticed. lol

              1. Mighty Mom profile image90
                Mighty Momposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                It's even worse than that, Hollie.
                They're soft ANTI-Americans.

                Note that the main athlete in question, Gabby Douglas, has also been equated with a monkey.
                Why is Fox News singling out the lone African-American gymast for criticism?

                Wide open to speculation on racism, dontcha think?

                lol

                1. Hollie Thomas profile image60
                  Hollie Thomasposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  I made light of it, but it's really quite frightening. Reds, beds, communists= Anti Americans. All equates to the same thing, let's hate.

                2. 0
                  SassySue1963posted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  @Mighty Mom Well now, perhaps. However, perhaps the hatred is not as specific as you are trying to make it seem. When she won the Gold Medal in the all around what were people tweeting? "Oh that girl needs a weave" "Get her a perm" "Look at that atrocious ponytail". Who was tweeting this? African American women. Go figure that one.

                  1. Mighty Mom profile image90
                    Mighty Momposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Really?
                    Did these women talk trash about the U.S. track and field team's hairdos, also?
                    There was quite a variety there.

                    1. 0
                      SassySue1963posted 4 years ago in reply to this

                      No they seemed to be concerned with Gabby. Of course, it raised quite a stir at the time and it was prior to much of the medals in the track events. Perhaps they were ashamed enough to leave the track team alone.

                      I also did want to point out, that they really did not say that the athletes were not patriotic enough but that the uniforms were not. Which I tend to agree to a point. However, I think THEIR point was to re-emphasize that these were not made in America but China.

                      1. Mighty Mom profile image90
                        Mighty Momposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                        No, their point had nothing to do with the uniforms of the U.S. Olympians being made in China. Which really is a valid criticism. Fox had also some issue with the U.S. uniforms having "berets" instead of baseball caps or cowboy hats.
                        Everybody's a fashion critic, eh?

                        The point of these two Fox commentators was about Gabby Douglas wearing a PINK leotard instead of red, white or blue.

                        I only happened to catch Colbert this afternoon that was the first I'd heard of this "soft anti-American" stuff....

                        1. 0
                          SassySue1963posted 4 years ago in reply to this

                          Okay. Sorry. I read the article but did not watch the videos. I'll check those out. The article did not mention the "soft American " stuff. I have to be honest, while I don't think it makes anyone a "soft" American, I did wonder at her choice of pink. Didn't affect my admiration for her accomplishment or my enjoyment of watching her do what she does best. It was my knee jerk reaction to the pink though. Not going to lie.

                          1. Mighty Mom profile image90
                            Mighty Momposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                            LOL. On that we agree!
                            But... please do not tell me your anti-pinkness has anything remotely to do with commie pinkOs!

                            (See how easy it is to presume dubious interpretations when, quite possibly, you and I are both simply not pastel people?)
                            lol

            2. twosheds1 profile image61
              twosheds1posted 4 years ago in reply to this

              It's easier than reporting actual news, I guess. But seriously, that is the biggest pile of BS I've heard from them in a long time.

          11. tylerhernandez09 profile image60
            tylerhernandez09posted 4 years ago

            My understanding has always been that when someone refers to the United States of America as an exceptional nation, it doesn't come from a blind ethnocentrism mentality or understanding that we basically have a superior military force, but it comes from the understanding that the ideas that this country was founded on (that of freedom and God-given permanent rights of life liberty and pursuit of happiness) have stood the test of time and exist as the best foundation for a prospering nation.  So it is not the physical traits of our nation that we find exceptional but the ideas that this country was founded on.  Whether or not the country still abides by those ideals is a completely different issue.

            1. Nick Hanlon profile image60
              Nick Hanlonposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              tylerhernandez09 ...you win the cupie doll.At last someone wrote an intelligent aswer to the original question.

              1. 0
                Tawadiposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                I agree, Nick. We've been schooled by a very intelligent, young man.

                Great post, Tyler.

            2. Josak profile image60
              Josakposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Now there is an interesting thought, we are historically exceptional due to our constitution... of course one would have to note that sooooooo many countries are historically exceptional in similar ways, for example: Greece for creating democracy, China for being technologically and socially light years ahead of Europe and transferring that knowledge across, Egypt and Morocco for holding and nurturing the combined knowledge of the world during the dark ages, Iceland for creating the first proper Parliament, France for creating the separation of executive, judicial and legislative branches, England for the Magna Carta etc etc.

              1. tylerhernandez09 profile image60
                tylerhernandez09posted 4 years ago in reply to this

                I would not say it is due to our expertly written and cleverly devised constitution that America is exceptional, but it is the ideals and values upon which our founding documents happen to be based.  As you rightly acknowledge, we are not the first ones to have recognized these values.  But we were the first ones to make it last.  Nobody in the 18th century thought America's Republic could last 300 years, this is because every government system that is based upon the people e.g. democracy has collapsed upon itself.  The problem with freedom is that it comes with the heavy burden of moral responsibility.  This is why Benjamin Franklin when asked what government we've created said "A republic..if you can keep it."

                What America did was take all these ideas of the past and integrate them together into statement of an objective Declaration of Independence.  Again, it is not the document which is exceptional but the ideals that it was built upon, ideals which have always existed but not always fully recognized.  Has America fully recognized them?  Perhaps, but that is irrelevant for it is not the country which is exceptional but the ideas it clings to.  The point is that empires come and go but ideas live forever.

                1. 0
                  Tawadiposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  You're wise beyond your years, Tyler. Well said.

                  Unfortunately, it'll be lost on most liberals because their ideals are the exact opposite of those of our founding fathers.

                2. 0
                  Sophia Angeliqueposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  I'm confused... The American constitution was signed in 1787. That's 225 years. Where do you get 300?

            3. JSChams profile image60
              JSChamsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Thanks you

            4. stanwshura profile image67
              stanwshuraposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Ahh...so American exceptionalism as you interpret it (notwithstanding the literal, that is, the only accurate definition of exceptionalism sets others aside, nay, BELOW America), your take on the as of yet mentioned IDEALISM to which everyone is obligated to aspire, refers to the founding principles  - which principles existed upon the INSTANT of the most recent big bang (and infinitely beforehand as well), discovered and/or realized by America's first generation - the invaders, illegal immigrants all - who set down on paper that our RIGHTS, those benes to which every human is entitled by birth, is that at which we FAIL MISERABLY when we say we're the best, or grunt "WE'RE NUMBER ONE!!" and "YOOOOOESSSSAY!!  YOOOOOESSSSAY!!" and can embody only with modesty and humility, and with collegial respect for all humankind?  If THAT is the this "exceptionalism" (in which case that elitist and boorish word MUST be replaced!), then I'm down with it.  You closed the sale and sealed the deal.  Still, it would be nice to see those who proclaim it actually exemplify and try to live it.

          12. Wizard Of Whimsy profile image61
            Wizard Of Whimsyposted 4 years ago

            FYI & FWIW Departments:

            Only 10 % of the U.S. population have passports.


            http://s2.hubimg.com/u/7019265_f520.jpg

            1. Josak profile image60
              Josakposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              ++++

            2. 0
              Sophia Angeliqueposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              And they use them mostly to travel to Mexico, for the military, and/or for international business....

            3. stanwshura profile image67
              stanwshuraposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Perfectly simple, and simply perfect!  A logic so clean, so eloquent, and yet to too many,, it would seem, so invisible.

           
          working