The middle class person losing their job and unable to afford the cobra payment? People with existing conditions? People who exceed their lifetime benefit? Ask yourself these questions! How many people, by no fault of their own, will not be able to get the necessary care they need? Will forego necessary doctor visits and die needlessly, because they can't afford insurance or the necessary care? You decide! You put a monetarial saving on someone's life. Losing your job and your insurance, doesn't always happen to the other guy! That guy or family member could affect you someday. These politicians against Obamacare don't have to worry! We the tax payers provide them with the best insurance while so many have none!
A lot less would suffer...for now, ALL of us would suffer, and the country as a whole. Its not free, and Obama isn't paying for it. Some people are paying for it, and many don't feel they have a say in it. That is very UN American.
Can you please cite references to support these claims?
A lot less would suffer?
Well, we don't know exactly how were going to pay for Obamacare. The government wasn't always involved in healthcare, in fact 40 years ago they weren't . Prices were affordable, everyone was taken care of. It only cost, on average, 3 dollars to see a doctor. People were able to save money, where as the system as of today is based entirely off of credit.
Since the government intervened in healthcare with programs like Medicare, Medicaid, and the FDA, they have inflated the costs. They printed money to fund these programs , and the cost became a lot more expensive because of inflation. Also, government chooses which drugs we are allowed to take, even if another drug is more efficient.
Now with Obamacare it will push the price further up and also be taken out of our paychecks. It will be so expensive, and since government can only use money it taxes, borrows, or prints things are going to get worse. The goal is repeal regulations written by corporations, lower taxes, and cut spending.
A lot of people would suffer including several hubbers I know who need coverage or have been rejected due to pre-existing conditions, we will go back to 45 000 American people dying every year (according to a Harvard study) for lack of insurance because apparently the small tax hike on high earning businesses and people making a quarter of a million dollars is just way too harsh.
Having said that I doubt Romney will win and even if he does I don't think he will have the Senate numbers to repeal it.
Don't believe the hype about Obamacare. It isn't the healthcare savior. You people will never understand. One day it will come into full effect and everyone will suffer. I'm not even going to debate it anymore. Were all screwed.
So much of the rejection of "Obamacare" focuses on the coverage mandate and people screaming they don't want or need health insurance.
Your points are all excellent and absolutely true.
What many people (here) may not be aware of -- or maybe it's simply not as EMOTIONAL and PERSONAL as taking their "rights" away ( )is all the positive changes Obamacare makes to health care DELIVERY.
It's a double sided coin.
Insures more citizens.
Provides more care and more efficient care for citizens.
So who else would lose? Community clinics, hospital systems, physicians and other HC staff.
Emergency Rooms are NOT meant to be providing primary care!
"According to the Congressional Budget Office, the law will increase coverage to about 94 percent of Americans, while slowing the rate of growth in federal health expenditures by $124 billion over the next decade."
NO! ITS GONNA COST A BILLIONITY GILLIONTY DOLLARS! WE"RE ALL DOOMED!
(except for the people who now have health care)
Mandatory health care is going to either cost me my home or force me to find a second job. I'm going to be perfectly on "the line" as I always am on EVERYTHING and it's going to cripple my family. It won't right away, it will start with having to give up broadband internet and cable TV, but, once my cars get too old and I can't afford to repair them, I won't be able to replace them, then I'm going to have to give up more stuff to get new ones, and, the spiral will begin until they have achieved the real goal which is to make a dependent populace completely beholden to them for everything.
Tyranny in the sheep's clothing of kindness. It's so insidious it's hard to fathom. There is no political issue that so fills me with hate for the state of American politics. It should NEVER have gotten to this point, and this "compromise" is the WORST of both worlds.
let me get this right you don't qualify for the subsidized care but you can't afford the 1% changing to 2.5% of income fine in 2016 (or alternately $95 in 2014 fine) I am skeptical, given that you are exempt if the insurance costs more than 8% of income you must have a really weird finance situation. You make enough to not quality for free/subsidized care but not enough to be able to afford the 1%/2.5% fine but care would cost less than 8% of your income... if that is the case you are in a miniscule portion of the population.
Welcome to my universe. I have a knack for landing in these places.
I realize it's my own fault for trying to make a living as a novelist rather than putting on a corporate yoke. Small business is no longer in fashion.
That's really unfortunate, you can make an application for the hardship exemption which is apparently quite easy to get, you just have to prove your quality of life would be affected if you had to buy insurance/pay the fine.
I understand finances might be tight but if you earn 50 000 then the fine is just $400.
Nothing like building a business as the founders envisioned and still having to crawl to the bureaucracy and beg for handouts because you decided to abide by the American dream rather than be subsumed by the plutocracy that perverted the whole point of the country to begin.
Sorry but I compare it to my friend ho lost his job and died unable to afford healthcare and I don't exactly see those two as equal.
Also applying for an exemption is hardly begging.
I have my own business too... nothing against the American dream but people dying of treatable illnesses isn't part of that dream either.
Well, I really don't want to open up the big bag of all of this, so, I'll say this and then let you have free rein on responses after. In my opinion, the problem is insurance to begin. Insurance and banking are the two great evils in the world. Greater than greed, actually, because these are literally the manifestations of greed, the actual and physical Titans of greed. The antithesis of God/Gods.
Yes, arguments can be made for how they are useful, but, given how human nature is, no system of either can really ever really do what the "good parts" of them are supposed to do for very long. We are now in the place of the Titans. We need the modern version of the Olympian gods to come and save us, and, at least for a while, we will prosper again. Then they will become what they became, replacements of the evil they fought off... etc. In the way of humanity that has always been for tens of thousands of years and appears to be destined to keep being.
I don't bitch about it, at least not for long. I recognize that the exploitation of my initiative and effort is inevitable. This is just my place in the cycle of time and culture. Just because I understand how it works doesn't mean I have to like it.
Josak, perhaps you need to walk in other people's shoes before laying out judgment. Being accepted for exemption in any government program is not as easy as you suggest. I know someone who was rejected from a program for earning, get this, three cents more than the minimum requirement. This person's husband had just run off with his "soul mate" and left the woman stranded with three children. They had been barely getting by on dual incomes, but when hubby left, it was just this woman and her three children. Three cents kept her from receiving the help she needed to provide food for her sons.
Not knowing someone's financial situation, you are hardly in a place to suggest that $400 is not a lot of money for some people. What if they just don't have the money? And, what if they are only three cents away from qualifying for exemption?
It takes a lot of nerve to tell other people what to do with their money. It takes even more nerve to slight them for saying they can't afford something that you think they should.
"Can't afford" is what happens when people who don't believe they can afford health insurance end up with a catastrophic injury and realize exactly what financial devastation having insurance protects them from.
Oh, Mighty Mom, I understand where you are going with this train of thought. But, here's the thing... if I only have x amount of money and can't afford 100% full health care, then instead of purchsing full health care, I buy catastropic health care which costs less. I do all that I can to stay healthy, and I see the doctor at least once a year. I pay out of pocket for doctor visits and lab tests. I arrange for low monthly payments that I can afford - which is less than the exhorbitant monthly fee for full health care. I have been managing my own health care for about 26 years now and so far so good. I have catastropic care which only costs a few bucks a month and it takes care of everything I can imagine, even cancer, which is better than most full care programs. Oh, and the catastropic care program even gives me a partial refund for mammograms. It's their way of saying thank you for taking care of yourself. I hope I never have to use my catastropic policy, but it's there in case I need it.
I say all of the above to say that we do not need the government to come in and tell us how to spend our money. I am just a simple person and I have been managing my own health care, thank you very much, on my own.
So people who had health insurance provided through their jobs for years but through no fault of their own lost said jobs and could not afford the COBRA payments (which would have afforded them continuous coverage but at a premium price) are suddenly facing finding and paying for health insurance on their own.
But wait ... during all those years they took their health insurance for granted either they or one of their family members ended up with a pre-existing conditions like -- IDK, let's choose ACNE as a common one.
They cannot obtain even catastrophic coverage on their own now.
By your definition these people are what? Not personally responsible?
They are slackers and looking for a government handout?
No. They are your fellow Americans.
But you got yours, right? So what do you care if there are MILLIONS of people in this exact situation?
Dear Mighty Mom, you do not know the toils I have endured to get where I am today. My husband and I lost our jobs on the same date. We both came home from work with the news that we would now have zero income for our household. COBRA was a JOKE. There was no way we could have afforded those outrageous payments. I looked for help whereever I could, even the government. But, the goverenment has criteria by which we must qualify.
The message I want to convey is that the government may provide the program, but some people won't be able to qualify and may miss the boat by a few pennies and end up stuck out in the snow to freeze. The government doesn't care about everybody. They put these programs in place and don't care that they are not serving EVERYONE. Some people are going to lose. I can honestly say that I have empathy for people who lose their health benefits. I lived it. I went through it. Both my husband and I out of work and out of benefits through no fault of our own. That's why we had to revert to developing and managing our own medical program... because the government didn't care enough to help.
Sure... Obamacare for all... but is it really for all? When the document containing the stipulations are read in its entirety, Obamacare will fail a lot of people, just the same as the current government system fails a lot of people, including me.
If you don't make the cut, you don't make the cut. You are left out in the cold... and the government won't care that you don't qualify for the program.
Please don't put me in the boat with people who don't care. I care. But, I worry about people who put their trust in the government like I did. Put me in the boat with people who know that the government doesn't care whether you qualify or not.
Obamacare will help some people, that's for sure. But, my mind and my concern is for the people who will get lost with the qualification process. It will be a pass or fail system and my heart goes out to the people who fail to qualify and truly can not afford to pay for medical insurance, provide shelter, AND feed their family, too. Those people will still exist with the proposed health care program.
And the government won't lift a finger to help - knowing what they are going through. You just can not put all of your hope on depending on the government. I know from personal experience that the government does not care.
I didn't just get mine and stop caring. I do care and your comment hurts a lot. I do care.
I apologize for lumping you in with those with the "I got mine, screw everyone else" attitude. I see your concern is for the people who will still be left out under Obamacare.
Getting 94% of Americans insured is not perfect.
It should be 100%.
But it's a heck of a lot better than the monopoly we have now.
Which frankly hurts middle class Americans more than any other group.
It discourages entrepreneurship -- can't tell you how many people I know who've taken jobs with the state just to get benefits.
(And think about that: As a taxpayer in the state I'm helping paying their salary and their health benefits but being self-employed I can't get health benefits myself? That's messed UP!)
I'm truly sorry to hear about your job situation. That is most unfortunate and all too common.
You really are lucky that you were able to obtain coverage for you and your husband.
And really, LUCK should have nothing to do with it!
Unfortunately catastropic health insurance has an extremely HIGH deductible. Unavailable for those on meds or pre existing conditions. Temporary insurance for say 6 months until you get an employer or self insured health insurance plan. NOT for everyone and not cheap when you consider the deductibles.
Not necessarily. Many years ago the company I worked for offered 3 different plans, with varying costs. They started at $200/$400 (personal, family) deductible paying 80%/20% and went to $2,000/$4.000 paying 90/10. This was over 20 years ago, and a $4,000 deductible was considered extremely high.
My little family of 4 had a wide variation of medical bills per year, ranging from near 0 to close to $100,000 so I had a good idea of what could happen. Not matter how I plugged numbers into a spreadsheet I always found the high deductible to be cheaper. Bottom line - if you want the insurance company to take on more risk you will cost them money you will pay for it.
Recognize, too, that insurance is a method of sharing the risks and costs of medical bills among thousands of people (plus a profit for the insurance company). Those with high known med bills or pre-existing conditions highly likely to cost additional monies through time aren't simply sharing the costs - they are intentionally taking a handout from others. There isn't a risk they will have large costs - there is a certainty and instead of sharing the risk for those people only the cost is shared.
Dear screaming, I beg to differ with you. I don't pay very much at all for my catastropic care. Keep looking. I'm not here to promote any company in particular, so I won't name the company, but keep looking. You have probably seen their ads on TV. Deductibles can be managed with negotiated monthly payments.
Yes!! I will be taken off my parents health care plan and will pay sky high prices for birth control. Great question by the way- love to bring life to policy.
MarleneB, Well said...Personal responsibility...My new Hub Hero of the Day.
It's pretty hard to exercise PERSONAL responsibility when the INSURANCE SYSTEM denies you that ability.
Have you ever applied and been DENIED coverage by a health insurer?
Let me tell you something, it's pretty humbling.
I know several people, all hard working middle-class people who are in that exact situation. Make too much to qualify for Medicaid. Too young for Medicare and not sick enough to trigger Medicare, either.
Imagine being basically healthy but something happens. You need a $44,000 operation (that's an uncomplicated one with no hospital stay attached, btw).
In and of itself that pricetag wouldn't be so horrible (yes, hospitals will let you make payments). But what if in the same year your husband also breaks his ankle? And your teen gets in a car accident and eds up in the ER?
But you're right and I'm wrong.
Personally responsible people don't need health insurance.
They have forseen this exact situation and have $100K socked away to pay their family's hospital bills.
Hi Mitch Alan, I'm no hero. I just have little faith in trusting a government entity to take care of me better than I can take care of myself. Maybe I'm a control freak. I don't know. I just don't trust the government to do right by me.
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For what it's worth, my health insurance just docked $200 off my premium and sent me a rebate to comply with the Affordable Health Care act. I had finally gotten insurance after years of being turned down for preexisting conditions (arthritis), but the high deductibles and incredible premium would be out of the price range of most people. (In fact, I can't pay it; I have to get help from my parents. Now I can pay it myself.)
No one else is paying to help my costs be affordable. It's just that before the Affordable Health Care act was enacted, it was nearly impossible to get health insurance with preexisting conditions, so the companies that DID offer coverage for preexisting conditions could charge sky-high prices -- much higher than the preexisting conditions actually cost them -- since they were the only game in town.
Other people in my situation, lacking family resources, can't afford those sky-high premiums...but they'll be able to afford the saner prices, as long as the Affordable Care Act is not repealed.
I acknowledge that since I've got extra health issues, I should pay more. But not when health companies are basically using extortion techniques in no way commensurate with the actual costs of insuring someone.
A country socalled based on being a Christian? I have to laugh! Give me a break! All so many socalled Christians posting care about is money. No compassion for their fellow man. Oh, thats right! Only day to be Christian for many is on Sunday! lol Who cares if their fellow man, woman, or child dies from lack of health care? Obviously many don't!
It wouldn't hurt me a bit. I can't afford health insurance, anyway. I think it is the doctors who are greedy. They get the insurance companies to pay too much money. When my fiance' went to the doctor for a check up for his new job, the doctor gave him a lower price. Why don't they always charge the lower price? It was still $100 for less than an hour of work.
I once had to try and get insurance on my own.
Because my husband had hemorrhoids, once, they wanted to charge us...$2000 a month.
I had to get catastrophic insurance, then miss meals to afford preventive care.
Without Obamacare I personally would not be able to get health insurance on my own now. My best case scenario would be a high premium and my pre-existing condition 'exempted' (meaning they wouldn't pay for the medication and regular blood tests I need to stay alive).
However, I don't think Obamacare is a good, solid fix either. Single payer has one set of problems. Employer-linked insurance has an entirely different one. Obama tried to go somewhere in the middle and I'm not convinced it will work.
I think we need to think outside the box and try to come up with a NEW system.
I feel your pain, jenniferrpovey. I was diagnosed with high blood pressure once. The doctor simply prescribed a diet and exercise program as a cure, but just because the diagnosis was in my records, I could not get health insurance at an affordable price. When I go straight to the doctors, they charge less AND they let me make monthly payments that I can afford. Sure, I live in fear of huge hospital bills should something really bad happens to me. In fact, I have been hospitalized twice for heart trauma. Now, that's in my records, too. So, I'll never be able to get medical insurance. But, because I didn't have insurance, the bill was reduced and I was able to make payments. I paid the bills off in a year and both times, if I had insurance, I would have paid more, anyway.
Here's the thing. Most people have not read the 1,990 pages of H.R. 3962, which is the affordable health care bill. I downloaded it to a PDF and read a little each day. I don't want to depend on the news reporters and bloggers to tell me what's up. I want to read it for myself. What I'm reading scares me a lot, because there are going to be a LOT of people left out to dry.
While the bill asks business owners to pay their portion of health care, the owner can simply pay the penalty and not provide health care at all. That will leave employees trying to find health care on their own. And, while the bill states that parents can add their children under 27 years old onto the parent's existing policy, the bill also states that there is no limit on how much the insurance company can increase their premiums when an adult dependent is added. What insurance company would not take advantage of that? And, people think it is going to be a free for all... insurance for everybody. No, insurance companies can STILL look at your medical history and deny insurance based upon your history, the bill merely puts a limit on how far back they can go to make that decision.
There are so many people out of jobs and so many people in need of health care, affordable or not. My heart goes out to those who don't have jobs and need medical attention at zero cost. And, one more thing about the bill is that there is only going to be X amount of money going toward the distribution of affordable health care. When the money runs out, the money runs out. The bill says when that happens, providers will be able to increase their prices and people will just be placed on waiting lists. I just want to know how being on a waiting list is helping someone who needs immediate medical attention.
I totally agree with you that we need to think outside the box and come up with a new system.
Excessive waiting lists is the biggest problem with single payer.
One of the things we need to address is unnecessary care. By which I mean people getting sick with things that are easily preventable.
For example, the work ethic and employer attitude that forces people to work when sick and give it to their coworkers.
Or people who are working two jobs to barely make ends meet...a lot of the time they end up eating at McDonald's all the time.
Or doctors reaching for pills instead of suggesting lifestyle changes first. They don't ALL do it, but it does happen.
Or people demanding the easy fix pills they saw on television when thirty minutes exercise a day would be just as effective.
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