jump to last post 1-5 of 5 discussions (73 posts)

Is the clash between a U.S. warship and an oil Iranian tanker a coinci

  1. maxoxam41 profile image79
    maxoxam41posted 4 years ago

    Pear Harbor, the Tonkin gulf incident, the september 11th attack, this clash have the same common denominator, a U.S. attack leading to a "justified" international intervention to an invasion or war. Many of you will refute the theory but, unfortunately it passed the theory level to being acknowledged as a pattern, or better a strategy.

    1. Lemuel Martin profile image60
      Lemuel Martinposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Give me a break. Go to your superiors and demand better material.

      On second thought, never mind, they aren't big on creativity or original thought. The only good ideas they have are ones they stole from us. We support Israel with all of our hearts. Forget about the United States, we are the least of your problems. Those who are arrayed against Israel will experience the full wrath Of God.

      I know, I know. Save your breath. I read the book.

      1. maxoxam41 profile image79
        maxoxam41posted 4 years ago in reply to this

        For the Pearl Harbor attack, my history teacher taught it to me, years before I read anything about it! We definitively did not read the same books (especially from someone who hides behind religion "the wrath of god") to argument. I don't consider the bible as a book, it carries the same ideology than the red Chinese book. As for Israel which rational person beside the one with Jew origins will support them? Americans and Israelis have interests on Iranian soil. America, its oil and Israel, its military power and dominance in the region.
        The Tonkin gulf, who doesn't know about the details of this event? No need for me to extrapolate!

        1. Lemuel Martin profile image60
          Lemuel Martinposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          So your teacher taught you that the preemptive sneak attack on Pearl Harbor was a ploy or an unwarranted excuse for American aggression? Who was your teacher, Charles Manson, or Osama Bin Laden?

          As far as the book . . . live and learn.

          1. maxoxam41 profile image79
            maxoxam41posted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Your references define your knowledge, i.e. limited and, I learned not to waste my time with people who don't know what critical thinking is!

      2. Hollie Thomas profile image60
        Hollie Thomasposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Why can't you just not argue the facts, as you know them to be, rather than launch an attack with no substance?

        1. Lemuel Martin profile image60
          Lemuel Martinposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          You should respect those who are more intelligent, well educated and accomplished than you.

          1. Josak profile image60
            Josakposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            big_smile such a humble man and somehow we have seen a total lack of actual knowledge from you...

            For example let me ask you what do you know about the US forced opening of Japan and the destruction of Tokyo bay by unprovoked American attack long before WWII?

            What do you know about the Hull Note which was described by the US secretary of war before Pearl harbor as a means of "how we should maneuver them [the Japanese] into the position of firing the first shot without allowing too much danger to ourselves."?

            Don't worry I will wait while you go google it.

            1. Lemuel Martin profile image60
              Lemuel Martinposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Google this, comrade.

              1. Josak profile image60
                Josakposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Exactly the answer we all expect from this so much better educated individual tongue you are hopelessly under informed and don't even have the wherewithal to figure it out and go do your research and learn your history.

              2. Hollie Thomas profile image60
                Hollie Thomasposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Have you been snorting bath salts? Try some reading.

                1. Lemuel Martin profile image60
                  Lemuel Martinposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  It sounds like you have been reading comic books.

          2. Hollie Thomas profile image60
            Hollie Thomasposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            On my bended knees. Your clear, well thought out response leaves me truly humble. I'm just like all those other women in your life.

            1. Josak profile image60
              Josakposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Man this guy is a treat big_smile

              By the way I meant to thank you for those links on workfare, interesting and not very pleasant.

              1. Hollie Thomas profile image60
                Hollie Thomasposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Yes, he is mildly entertaining big_smile. No problem, anytime. Not pleasant, but we're used to a good old scrap in the UK. Roll on the appeals on workfare. We WILL win. smile

                1. Lemuel Martin profile image60
                  Lemuel Martinposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  If two fools agree does that make them wise? Wha't with the smiley faces, are you just school children on a lark?

                  1. Josak profile image60
                    Josakposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Well thankfully we aren't all angry hateful souls smile

                  2. Hollie Thomas profile image60
                    Hollie Thomasposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Why are you so concerned? The conversation was not about you.

                2. Josak profile image60
                  Josakposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  I truly hope so, Scotland seems to be doing encouraging things from what I hear.

                  1. Hollie Thomas profile image60
                    Hollie Thomasposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Scotland always do. Whilst I can completely understand why they might vote for  independence, it will be England's great loss.

          3. Hollie Thomas profile image60
            Hollie Thomasposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            I will, where are they?

          4. Reality Bytes profile image93
            Reality Bytesposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            lol

  2. wilderness profile image94
    wildernessposted 4 years ago

    This conspiracy theory makes perfect sense.  We all know that if the US had not responded to the 911 attack on its people the perpetrators would have felt really, really bad and slunk back into the religious morass they came from.  The same holds true for the Japanese in WWII - had we not declared war on them and "intervened" in their country in response to Pearl Harbor they would have left the US strictly alone in that war.  The US is such an immoral place to have responded to other peoples killing Americans!

    Not.

    1. Hollie Thomas profile image60
      Hollie Thomasposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Hang on, the US responded too late to Pearl Harbour. Had they taken note of what others may have stated, a lot of lives may have been saved. The US (and the UK I might add) responded to 9/11 by attacking a nation which was not involved in the attack. Anything but to examine their own foreign policy, and who they had funded.

      1. Lemuel Martin profile image60
        Lemuel Martinposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Have you been snorting "bath salts"? That probably won't translate well through your Martian to English program. Bath salts are illicit drugs that make you lose you mind.

        1. Hollie Thomas profile image60
          Hollie Thomasposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Valid argument, well substantiated, clear perspective. : :rolleyes

          1. Lemuel Martin profile image60
            Lemuel Martinposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            I am supposed to have a valid argument when you are talking all out of your head? You may have started the game, but you don't set the rules. I won't respond they way they taught you in training. Welcome to the real world.

            1. Hollie Thomas profile image60
              Hollie Thomasposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              What training would that be exactly? I'm just a dumb female and have no clue what your mean. I need a real, educated,  worldly wise man to explain it to me.

      2. wilderness profile image94
        wildernessposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        The US responded too late to Pearl Harbor?  The country declared war the next day!  True, they didn't chase down the Japanese fleet and destroy it, but then about all they had after Pearl Harbor was rowboats in the Pacific Fleet.

        True, we didn't attack the nation that flew the planes on 911, but then there was no nation.  Instead we attacked the nation that funded and supplied the people that flew the planes, the nation that supplied them with a home.  I don't have a problem with that.

        1. Josak profile image60
          Josakposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Well the US intentionally pushed Japan into war, even the secretary of war admitted it.

          As for 9/11 no invading a country that had some Alqaeda in it, we got rid of a government we created and installed then killed hundreds of thousands of innocents there and in Iraq (there too for some reason) to not get particularly many of the people actually responsible and to get a huge amount of people who were just trying to live their lives.

          You don't punish terrorists by invading countries... if you want to get rid of them you do so in a targeted way like Obama is doing with the drone strikes and surgical raids.

          1. Mighty Mom profile image90
            Mighty Momposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Stop the presses!
            Are you stating that BushCo. attacked Iraq for a reason OTHER than stopping the terrorists who perpetrated 9/11?

            1. Hollie Thomas profile image60
              Hollie Thomasposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Who would have thunk it?

              1. Mighty Mom profile image90
                Mighty Momposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Certainly not I, and I'm guessing not you, either.
                This thread seems to be suggesting the EXCEPTIONAL U.S. is not above goading other countries into attacks -- even on our own citizens -- to take the "high road" into war.
                My little brain hurts too much absorbing this!

                lol

                1. Hollie Thomas profile image60
                  Hollie Thomasposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Mine too. If only I had been born a strong and thoughtful male I might be be able to deal with all this, intelligently. lol

            2. Josak profile image60
              Josakposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              I am just way out there you know? Frankly I don't know what comes over me.

            3. maxoxam41 profile image79
              maxoxam41posted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Come on mighty mom, with your brain you can't think otherwise!

        2. Hollie Thomas profile image60
          Hollie Thomasposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          My point being, that other countries had pointed out that the aggressors were expansionists and scoundrels. The US not wanting to get involved mattered not- they would attack anyway. The US response was late, very late.

          "but then there was no nation" Saudi was a nation. It was a poor error of judgement on the part of the US, and I might add, the UK was equally as responsible for that poor judgement.

          1. Mighty Mom profile image90
            Mighty Momposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Don't feel bad, Hollie Thomas.
            How could you have known your PM would turn into a lapdog?
            Interestingly, said lapdog also engaged in a photo opp with Mitt Romney in London a few days back.
            roll

            1. Hollie Thomas profile image60
              Hollie Thomasposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Indeed he did sad. In 1997 I voted for that lap dog *shamed* I was also foolish and gullible. He's no lap dog really, he had a choice and self interest trumped all.

          2. wilderness profile image94
            wildernessposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            As far as I know the Saudi govt. never authorized the actions of 911.  The people may have been Saudi in origin, but people often act outside the interests and guidelines of their nations.  It is not a reason to attack that nation.

            Sounds like you are promoting the idea of a pre-emptive strike because we think another country will harm us.

            In general, I have a problem with that concept - it seems in line with what the OP thinks happened, just without the political "prettying up" and is usually an inexcusable reaction to fear and little more.  That was the excuse for Iraq (WMD's) and look what the results have been as well as how the excuse proved out.

            1. Hollie Thomas profile image60
              Hollie Thomasposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              So, if the Saudi Govt did not sanction 9/11 and their people acted outside the interests and guidelines of their nation, which, according to you and I'm not disagreeing, does not justify a military strike. How can you justify a military strike on persons who were not responsible for 9/11?

              I'm not the one who is justifying a pre-emptive strike.

              1. wilderness profile image94
                wildernessposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Right or wrong, the story seems to be that the US carried out military action against the nation most responsible for arming, supplying and providing a home for those that were responsible.  It's been a long time, but I seem the remember a declaration from the US that such nations will cease to provide such funding or a home for our enemies or we would come in and get them.  They didn't, we did.  The strike was not particularly against the country providing that home; the country and its citizens were just in the way and refusing to move. 

                To many, that is splitting hairs and of no consequence, but I disagree.  Any country sheltering our enemies from reprisal and/or aiding them in future attacks against us will bear the consequences of their actions.  That aid may be nothing but knowingly and intentionally providing a place to exist but that's enough.

                Perhaps I misread your intent with the comments that the US reaction was far too late - that Japan was known to be expansionists and scoundrels that should have been attacked before they attacked us.

                1. Lemuel Martin profile image60
                  Lemuel Martinposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  The war was not against a nation. It was against a maniacal dictator, his henchmen, and his influene.

                  1. Josak profile image60
                    Josakposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    In Afghanistan... Tell  me who was the leader of Afghanistan before the invasion? let me guess you have no idea and you are off to check google? Not to mention it was a government we installed!

        3. maxoxam41 profile image79
          maxoxam41posted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Here is the epitome of the average American way of thinking justifying the invasion, the killing in Iraq. They did not attack but they bla, bla,bla... By the way America accepted the "pilots" does it mean that we have to blow our own nation?

  3. knolyourself profile image59
    knolyourselfposted 4 years ago

    The US wanted an excuse to get into world war II both the European and pacific theaters. It has been documents that they knew Pearl Harbor was going to happen and they let it happen. The Tonkin gulf incident documented fake. There is Panama, Grenada, Libya, Syria all faked.
    They don't bother with war resolutions any more. They don't need to.

    1. Hollie Thomas profile image60
      Hollie Thomasposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      I really wish that I could that that was not true. But it is.

      1. Lemuel Martin profile image60
        Lemuel Martinposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        The Jihad version of history.

        1. Hollie Thomas profile image60
          Hollie Thomasposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Oh my gosh, you mean, Muslims were responsible for Pearl harbour, too?

          1. Lemuel Martin profile image60
            Lemuel Martinposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Not much at comprehension?

            1. Hollie Thomas profile image60
              Hollie Thomasposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              That was sarcasm, but you understood that, right?

        2. Josak profile image60
          Josakposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          How would you know? You don't even know basic American history in Japan or the lead up to WWII... you are not really in a position to be judging.

  4. knolyourself profile image59
    knolyourselfposted 4 years ago
    1. Lemuel Martin profile image60
      Lemuel Martinposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Oh a link! Quick, follow it and get a bug that will rob your clicks. I don't follow links on this computer. My mama didn't raise no fool.

      Go back to sleep.

      1. Hollie Thomas profile image60
        Hollie Thomasposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Absolutely she didn't. I bet she could honestly say that HER boy would never be fooled by logic, reason and evidence. lol

      2. Josak profile image60
        Josakposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        There is this thing called anti virus... you may have heard of it... I have never got a single infection off hub pages in all the time I have been here and all the links I have followed btw.

  5. Mighty Mom profile image90
    Mighty Momposted 4 years ago

    Is it too late to blame 9/11 on Iran?
    I mean, is there a statute of limitations on such things?
    Who needs a new excuse for striking against Iran when we can dust off one that worked oh so well the first time!
    lol

    1. Hollie Thomas profile image60
      Hollie Thomasposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      lol

    2. maxoxam41 profile image79
      maxoxam41posted 4 years ago in reply to this

      ah mighty mom, you are right, since the populace doesn't think let's tell them that in fact we found a device belonging to Iran in the aisle of the pentagon attacked by the "airplane". Here is a direct evidence likng the Iranian government to September 11!

 
working