jump to last post 1-17 of 17 discussions (200 posts)

Muslims deplore the killing of U.S. ambassador to Libya

  1. Don W profile image82
    Don Wposted 4 years ago

    Over the last few days you've seen lots of pictures of Muslims protesting about a film, burning and smashing things, and gruesome pictures of the U.S. ambassador's body in Libya. But I guarantee you won't see many pictures like those below in the mainstream media.

    These are Libyans protesting at the recent violence in their country, committed by people who don't speak for them. In a country where the U.S. ambassador can be attacked and killed, you can appreciate these people are risking their lives to do this. Unfortunately we only see Muslims committing violence over and over again on main news outlets.

    The brave Muslims shown below should not be forgotten, but should be supported by all those who deplore religious violence. They remind us that Libyans and Muslims are not the enemy. The "us" and "them" narrative spun out to make a good 'story' is the real enemy. I hope people don't fall for it.   

    http://s2.hubimg.com/u/7151737_f248.jpg
    http://s4.hubimg.com/u/7151739_f248.jpg
    http://s1.hubimg.com/u/7151760_f248.jpg

    The Council on American-Islamic Relations also condemned the attacks in a news conference in Washington on Wednesday. It includes a moving tribute from a Muslim who was a personal friend of Chris Stevens (second speaker).

    1. aguasilver profile image87
      aguasilverposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Thanks for presenting the balanced side of things, I live in  Muslim country, the Muslims I know are not violent people, nor fanatics.

      1. Don W profile image82
        Don Wposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        As I said on another thread, out of the billions of Muslims in the world, I'm certain the majority are more interested in feeding their kids and leading a happy life than trying to destroy western civilisation. Unfortunately we don't see much of those Muslims in the news.

      2. Paul Wingert profile image78
        Paul Wingertposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        I personally believe Islam a peaceloving religion like any other religion out there. Unfortunately all we hear about is the fanatics and extremists. Of course there's the fanatic and extremist Christians out there too, like the assh*** that made that film.

    2. Hollie Thomas profile image60
      Hollie Thomasposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Thank you Don, for this splash of common sense! Perhaps the news in the US is even more censored than it is here, but even here we have seen, on sky news I might add, that many Muslims are disgusted by what has happened, this is not what they fought for. We have also seen the Egyptian President come out and denounce this awful killing, are people just gonna ignore that because he is a Muslim? This tragic event has not occurred because Muslims are *barbaric* but because people, of any religion, race or creed can behave like animals.

    3. Billy Hicks profile image90
      Billy Hicksposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Am I the only one who thinks it's kinda strange that the guy in the first picture misspelled Prophet?


      Conspiracy nuts incoming. 30 seconds till Thread gets Hijacked.

      1. wavegirl22 profile image46
        wavegirl22posted 4 years ago in reply to this

        and now a word from out sponsor smile

    4. Ralph Deeds profile image70
      Ralph Deedsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Thanks. That's good to see although it doesn't surprise me.

    5. rhamson profile image76
      rhamsonposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      It is funny how the vernacular in this country has changed from radical muslims to just plain muslim when these attacks take place. More of the all or nothing mentality our political reasoning has become I guess.

  2. Mighty Mom profile image90
    Mighty Momposted 4 years ago

    It is beyond unfortunate that the actions of a few zealots -- on both sides, the filmmakers and the rioters-- are misinterpreted as representative of an entire country or an entire religion.

    1. Repairguy47 profile image61
      Repairguy47posted 4 years ago in reply to this

      How are you able to bring up a film as justification for murder? Do you work for the obammy administration?

      1. Mighty Mom profile image90
        Mighty Momposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        I brought up the film as the work of one individual or a group of individuals.
        In no way do the people who made that derogatory film represent or reflect America as a country.
        Nowhere did I say, nor do I believe, that murder -- or even the riots -- are justified.
        Nor does the Obama administration believe or support that. Have you been paying attention, or just rushing to condemn the president, too?

        What I said, and maybe I did not write this clearly enough, is this:
        It was WRONG, WRONG, WRONG for the Muslims to retaliate against America the country for the stupid actions of a small group of American filmmakers.
        It is also WRONG for Americans to blame all Muslims for the violent reaction of a few extremists.

        But I can already see that is exactly what is happening.
        Which, it appears, is exactly what the filmmakers intended.
        I sure hope they're pleased with themselves.
        The Muslims who lit fire to the US embassy in Libya are guilty of murder.
        The American filmmakers who incited these actions are guilty of at minimum, manslaughter.

        1. PhoenixV profile image79
          PhoenixVposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          What gives you the right to say that?

          1. Mighty Mom profile image90
            Mighty Momposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            What gives me the right?
            The right to free speech protected by the First Amendment.

            Why do I make such a claim?
            Because the only possible reason to make such an offensive, hateful anti-Islam movie was to rile up and inflame Muslims. 
            When you stir up a hornet's nest, someone's gonna get stung.
            Perhaps they did not intend for American diplomats to be the target, but they surely knew there would be retaliation.
            In fact, they're talking about the movie on the news right now.

            Here's the definition. You tell me it doesn't fit these assholes.
            Involuntary manslaughter is the unlawful killing of another human being without intent.

            1. PhoenixV profile image79
              PhoenixVposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              LOL I was just being facetious - WAGGIA!

              So you enjoy your free speech ?

            2. Reality Bytes profile image93
              Reality Bytesposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              How many innocent civilians have been killed in drone attacks, would you condemn the POTUS to be a murderer/ manslaughterer?  What happens when we discover that this ambassador was murdered due to retaliation from drone attacks in Libya, that the individuals guilty of the crimes had been planning this months before the movie was even known? Once again do we have a criminal in the White House?

              1. Hollie Thomas profile image60
                Hollie Thomasposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                What happens when we discover that this ambassador was murdered due to retaliation from drone attacks in Libya, that the individuals guilty of the crimes had been planning this months before the movie was even known?

                It appears that you have already decided the outcome of any investigation before it has even begun.  You continually ask what happened to free speech? What's happened to due process?

                1. wavegirl22 profile image46
                  wavegirl22posted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  and continually just wants to take any occasion to bash the President.

                  1. Reality Bytes profile image93
                    Reality Bytesposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Presidents!  Bush is also responsible for creating new generations of individuals with a grudge against the United States.  What is deemed as a "war on terror" to one side, appears to be "acts" of terror to the other!  Justice is one thing, a prolonged continuance of destruction and death is quite another.  Should any people merely sit by as their countrymen are killed, would they not eventually seek the same Justice?

                    Who should be held responsible for Americas failed foreign policy, but its leaders?  Congress is just as responsible for not reigning in this era of death!


                    I have no hope in any alteration of events with a Romney administration.  The agenda of the elites will continue unimpeded unless humanity unifies and RESISTS!   Why do we allow ourselves to be divided in so many (in the grand scheme of life) petty issues?


                    Think for one second, Libya does not have a stable government, fully staffed.  They have managed to acquire a western affiliated Central bank though?  Iran does not have one of these............YET!   


                    Why do NATO forces stay out of conflicts, horrible atrocities, in nations that does not have an abundance of natural resources?  I thought every Embassy was equipped with at the very least, a helicopter to evacuate personnel?  This is indeed a disturbing time in history!

                2. Reality Bytes profile image93
                  Reality Bytesposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Due process was destroyed by new American homeland security legislation.



                  How come you felt obliged to ask me this when society has already decided the outcome before any investigation has begun?  All I am doing is pointing out the fact that we do not know what motivated these attacks.  They appear to be coordinated attacks that most likely was in the planning process long before this movie was revealed.  The only ones guilty of wrongdoing are the monsters that committed the crimes!

                  1. Hollie Thomas profile image60
                    Hollie Thomasposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    I agree that we do not *know* what motivated these attacks, therefore, we cannot *assume* that they were in the planning long before the movie was revealed.  This is a highly emotive event, feelings are running high which means a proper investigation and review of the evidence needs to take place. Jumping to conclusions now is the worst possible course of action.

            3. oceansnsunsets profile image89
              oceansnsunsetsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              So they are a hornets nest, ready to be stirred up and sting people...to death...lol

              You better watch out!

              Freedom of speech for some, not all!  People who are terrorists, get to murder when others express their free speech, wow, what a great thing to support, and also blame others.  What did they do?  Do the very thing you did here....  use their God given right.....  amazing.

            4. Repairguy47 profile image61
              Repairguy47posted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Still making the assertion that hurt feelings is justification for murder I see.

              1. Mighty Mom profile image90
                Mighty Momposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Deliberate misquoting does not make your accustion any truer the third, tenth, or fifty-ninth time you repeat it.

                1. Hollie Thomas profile image60
                  Hollie Thomasposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  When one has nothing of any substance to say, the straw man usually emerges. smile

          2. oceansnsunsets profile image89
            oceansnsunsetsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Ignorance, and her right to free speech gives her the right.  Blaming the film makers of manslaughter, when they are against those that practice manslaughter and other hindering of human rights, is just another evil thing we observe in this world. 

            I am at the point of not even feeling bad, if Americans think and act this way toward true evil in the world

            They killed, on 9-11 no less, and continue to riot....

            If the film makers wanted to show the violence of certain groups, it sure is ironic how the people in question, showed it themselves.

            If people care to study up on the religion, and what its prophet taught and did, they would understand.  People don't care about truth and freedom and rights for ALL anymore.  People that take life, and hinder true human rights of others, should NOT be so defended.  Anyone can find a few photos....  We are speaking about the same people dancing in the streets on 9-11, and continue to celebrate it.  in the mean time, innocent people are dead, because the film makers were right about radical Islam.  They can't make those people do it, but the people that engage in cowardly murder of others, SURE won't want to it to be said about them.  So they do it more....amazing.  More amazing, is people like MM, not blaming the murders on those that did it. 

            Why she has an E next to her name here, is so beyond me....  Who defends that kind of stuff?

            1. oceansnsunsets profile image89
              oceansnsunsetsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Correction, not those that practice manslaughter, but much worse, outright cowardly murder.  Also, when I said I am past the point almost of feeling bad if American's think and act this way, I should have added that this country is going downhill, and its undeniable.  People don't want to look at WHY this is...  Reasons matter....this country WAS great...its losing its greatness.  Everyone knows it, world over.  Does anyone care?

              In fairness, I don't know what is in the film, but if it is exposing the teachings of Islam and its followers, then I have an idea of what is in it.  Are they violent or not?  Have you seen the news, ever?

              1. Ralph Deeds profile image70
                Ralph Deedsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                I watched the movie (trailer, there was apparently no movie), and it had nothing to say about Islamic beliefs. It was a pathetic, amateurish, scurrilous attack on Mohammad, depicting him as a womanizer, a clown and a clueless jerk.

                1. oceansnsunsets profile image89
                  oceansnsunsetsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Yes, you are right, Mohammad was the victim here, not the many that have been killed since.   A very weak religion where people have to kill for their prophet and a very backwards and twisted society that sides with Mohammed in this case. 

                  Learn about Mohammad's history actually, I have. People can put others down, and do all the time, even their prophets, look how tough the Christians are in this case.  What they can't do is pick such a lame, pathetic reason to actually go and kill innocent Americans or anyone. 

                  I am abhorred that some don't get this....  It actually, truly scares me for America, and makes me not feel bad for the Americans that are fighting this crazy kind of thinking and mentality.

                  Truth is, even the terrorists aren't blaming the video anymore, it was always Obamas camp, look this up.  They NEED it to be about a trailer for the movie, instead of Obamas failed foreign policy, so close to the election.  The awake people of the world see it.  It actually explains what we are seeing world over, as we speak.

                  Weak points of view and philosophies count on people to be blind and dumb to such things, and take advantage of them this way.  They give out lots of handouts as well, and they nail their case shut.  They hit below the belt, and demonize things that actually made sense, like what Romney said on recording that was released.

                  They are screaming, he lost the election, because they NEED to, as Romney is showing what is really going on.  The left CAN'T have their eyes opened up to the truth, because the deceptions and lies are all they have.  They are desperate.  That is another point, but it all ties in.  Its not about people actually caring about what they ought to be, as our country goes down in flames.

                  1. Josak profile image59
                    Josakposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Preposterous

                    #1 the signs of the rioters blamed the movie.

                    #2 Obama foreign policy had nothing to do with this.

                    #3 The vast majority of Economists disagree with Romney (according to a recent survey about 8 out of every 9 economists will be voting democrat).

                    No facts, no truths just false insinuations.

                    No the murders are not justifiable but that is completely separate.

            2. PhoenixV profile image79
              PhoenixVposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              The people that were murdered had no relationship to any film or film maker so it was just irrational murder. Embassies are not overrun by a few zealots. The videos show hundreds, if not thousands of participants.

              Would the same rationale apply if someone murdered random people because they saw people burning a United States flag? Would it be justified and an argument made that the people that were burning the flag were guilty of manslaughter? I bet the same liberal la la land mentality would not be offered in that argument.

              Freedom of speech and freedom of expression and " freedom and rights for ALL" as you say are more important than anything. It is worth defending above all else. The reason why, is that the alternative world without these basic freedoms is worthless.

            3. Don W profile image82
              Don Wposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Wait a minute. Take another look. Really look.
              http://s2.hubimg.com/u/7151737_f248.jpg
              This man is a Muslim. He lives in Libya. He has taken the time to write on a piece of paper "Sorry people of America. This is not the Pehaviour of our Islam and Profit". He spells behaviour as "Pehaviour" and prophet as "profit" because English is not his language. His language is Arabic. He is trying to communicate with you as best he can, because he does not want to be represented by extremists who commit religious violence. And he's doing that in a place where extremists walk around with rocket propelled grenades.

              This man, and Muslims like him, need your support. Chris Stevens knew that. That's why he was there. Teaching English in Morocco with the Peace Corps in his youth taught him to see people's humanity before their religion or culture. He wanted to help Muslims like this, and he did. So much so that a stranger felt compelled to call him a "Friend to all Libyans".
              http://s1.hubimg.com/u/7151760_f248.jpg

              You want the truth? Here it is. Libya is on the difficult road to democracy and freedom. The extremists truly hate that fact. They will try to sew seeds of division among those who value freedom and democracy. They will try to drive a wedge between you and the Muslims in these photos. In stereotyping Muslims you only support the extremists efforts. What's more, you denigrate the memory of Chris Stevens who recognised there are Muslims who want freedom and democracy for their country. Stop dancing to the extremists tune. Let Muslims, Christians, atheists, liberals, conservatives who deplore religious violence and value freedom and democracy stand side by side. The truth is, divided we are weak. United we are stronger than the extremists can ever be. Don't peddle division.

              1. PhoenixV profile image79
                PhoenixVposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                You do not get freedom by kowtowing to terrorists or making signs.

                1. oceansnsunsets profile image89
                  oceansnsunsetsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Exactly....or apologizing for American's expressing their freedom of speech in a couple of videos.  Why not demand apologies for the killings of innocent Americans?  This is an upside down world, everything is backwards.  Its the biggest and most obvious way to know something is off.  I miss a strong America, and a time when terrorists didn't get the upper hand by using their sheer....terror.  They are laughing at America, when they aren't hating it. 

                  People are so missing the point here.  They can have that, but they can't have that and miss, or get out of the natural consequences that follow from very bad ideas playing out.

                  1. Mighty Mom profile image90
                    Mighty Momposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Looks like terror has been the primary tactic of terrorists for quite some time now.

                    http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0001454.html

              2. oceansnsunsets profile image89
                oceansnsunsetsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                You make a great case, but miss the points entirely and where someone like me stands on these current events.  You want to make it look like I am peddling division?  Here is where I stand actually, since you missed it in my posts. 

                I think its a right, to make a couple of videos, to speak our minds.  Its NOT right a right, to take the lives of innocent people, on 9-11 no less.  This whole thing isn't about a few Muslims holding peaceful photos.  Yet you try to act like it is.  I have studied this religion and its more extreme and less extreme followers. 

                They hate America, they hate our policy and especially our current weakness.  Libya knew what America was like when it was strong, when Reagan hit back, and they went quiet... Now we have an apologizing president, and IF you are not for division, then you would have read my posts a bit more clearly, and understand what we are really dealing with. 

                Did the two little videos offend you so much, and why are you not more offended by the killing of innocents?  THIS, is what is creating division, and a true missing of the points at hand.   

                Be against me and my ideas, but I am for life, and liberty for all.  Make a more fair point, and maybe it will have some weight.  Don't defend the wrong side of this super obvious issue.  You are for rights for all, including Americans and innocents, even on, especially on 9-11, or you are not.  Don't recreate scenarios...I am speaking of current events, and want Libyans and all people to have the best life possible.  Dressing up arguments like this won't work, sorry.

                1. PhoenixV profile image79
                  PhoenixVposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Exactly they HATE AMERICA. But they want to use a red herring of a couple of religious extremists. That way they can blame religion, install a few banks and call it democracy all the while Americans give up some freedom.  That is the truth more than likely.

                2. Don W profile image82
                  Don Wposted 4 years ago in reply to this


                  Nope. Take a deep breath. Look again. Look closely.
                  http://s2.hubimg.com/u/7151737_f248.jpg
                  I know it's difficult for you to take in, but this Muslim is apologizing to you for something he didn't do, because he wants you to know he doesn't support the people who commit violence. You and the man in this photo both agree. You are the same. You both deplore the violence committed by extremists. He doesn't hate you. He doesn't hate America, and he's risking his life holding up a sign to tell you that.
                  Take it in.


                  No it's not. And you, I and the Muslim in this photo all agree on that. So even though I don't know this man, and I don't know you, we have that in common. It's that common value that unifies us. That unity that can strengthen us. That strength that can defeat the extremists. But it all starts with recognising that common value and supporting each other in it.


                  Yes President  Reagan bombed Libya in 1986. Two years later in 1988 they retaliated by blowing up Pan Am Flight 103 over Lockerbie. 243 people died, 173 of them Americans. That's not really going 'quiet'. The bombing of Libya in 1986 simply fuelled more anti-Western feeling and created the next generation of extremists. Perhaps even some of those responsible for the recent violence. I wouldn't call that a success at all. I'd call it a tragic, vicious cycle.

                   
                  Great. Then join me in commending the actions of the brave Muslims in the photos protesting against violence at great personal risk. So far I've only heard you talk about "them" as if all Muslims are the same. If you do support Muslims who are against violence, show that support.


                  Clear your mind for a minute. The truth is, you and I can't end extremism in the Middle East. The United States can't end it, and neither can Europe. Only the people in the Middle East can end extremism in the Middle East. What you and I can do, is support them as much as possible in that goal. That's what Ambassador Stevens did. He was helping things to change from the inside out. I think you are genuinely upset and angered by these events, which is understandable. What you also need to understand is that believing Muslims are the enemy will not help change anything. The majority of the 1.6 billion Muslims on the planet want to live their lives in peace (if they didn't we'd really be in trouble) so let's help that majority deal with the minority that don't.

                  1. wavegirl22 profile image46
                    wavegirl22posted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    and again I applaud you!

                  2. PhoenixV profile image79
                    PhoenixVposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    If the majority of 1.6 billion is peaceful I would think they could actually stop the few that are not.

                    You keep changing your story.

                    One minute they are mostly peaceful, the next minute even painting a sign puts them in grave danger.

                    I do not think that painting a sign should be cheered while people are being murdered randomly.

                  3. oceansnsunsets profile image89
                    oceansnsunsetsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    I am against the Muslims that ACT like they are our enemies.  I think that you are a little bit confused in my point...  You are sugar coating what the reality is.  Why that is, I am not sure.  Don't make this about people like me not wanting to be for peacable Muslims everywhere. 

                    I am for the few that MIGHT ACTUALLY make a sign really promoting peace.... 

                    Stop trying to make enemies out of people like me, that stand up for what is right, and truly condemn what is wrong.  Most people that are Islamic sympathizers have their reasons, but if you haven't truly studied the actual texts, then you may never know where the ones that do their crimes get their directions from.  I think this is about a deeper good and evil.  People trying to minimize the true evil we see and continue to, while condemning and truly hating the freedom loving countries like America, are not on the side of good.  If you haven't noticed in history, terror wins...they think they won here again, on 9-11.  More innocent American lives lost, at the hands of cowardly people that TRULY hate Americans.  That is a rage that is unexcusable and undeniably and obviously real. 

                    Yes, I am upset that it is blamed on some lame videos....  The reason is deeper.  Hatred that they would rather die for..  Perhaps you could consider that the best way to help these countries out, if that is your only goal for guys that make signs, is to help keep freedom at home first.

                    In the mean time, we are losing our freedoms here daily, and people turn a blind eye and deaf ear to keep their handouts.  It ALL is completely UNAmerican.  Also, meanwhile, why people like you that pretend to not get my point, and want to bicker about it, they LAUGH and get away with more.  You are barking up the wrong tree if you think I am not for peace and want it for all.  I do...  This is frustrating having to defend what I know is right from the top.  Good grief.

                  4. A Troubled Man profile image60
                    A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Can we be sure those words weren't just photoshop'd into the picture?

              3. oceansnsunsets profile image89
                oceansnsunsetsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                To the men and women that honestly make a sign, and want peace, I am for them.  I am for those that were working hard that day their lives were taken for EXTREMELY poor reasons.  Its a guise I think even, that they are "blaming it on two little videos...." , whose comments are worse than the videos.  They hate America.

                Be for freedom for people back home too!  You can't have freedom if you are aren't alive.

                1. PhoenixV profile image79
                  PhoenixVposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  We ought to be setting the example to these people that Freedom is something that you have to fight for and not be cowards that make excuses and sacrifice the very freedom that we espouse.

              4. wavegirl22 profile image46
                wavegirl22posted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Bravo! I am here typing giving you a standing ovation!

                The only thing I want to add here is that I find it it refreshing to see Muslims living in a country where they CAN speak out. It is not easy to be in the Muslim world where there are regimes that would not let you voice your opinion at all. I shutter for people in a place like Iran where if you showed something like this they will cart you off to Evin Prison.

                Yes I am sure this is still somewhat dangerous for these people to be speaking out and actually apologizing but this is some progress and I think in the right direction for the world.

        2. American View profile image60
          American Viewposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          MM,

          I disagree that this was retaliation for the film or somebody else suggested the drones attacks. This was a planned coordinated attack and was scheduled to take place on September 11 and for obvious reasons.

          The administration was quick to lay blame on the film. Why the quick question the judgment? When came to the shootings at Fort Hood, Obama was all over don't rush to judgment wait for the investigation. And of course despite the results of the investigation the administration decide to call it a work place incident.

          I wonder how the citizens of Libya came to watch this video on YouTube which is the trailer for the movie which is not yet been released? If everybody remembers while Libya was going through its turmoil, reporters had a hard time getting the news out, streaming their reports using the cameras on their cell phones. The citizens of Libya couldn't get reports of their plight out because there was no Internet.

          Just as I posted this, Libya has made arrests of four people who were part of the planning of the attacks, and it was not because of the movie

          .http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/09/13/consulate-attack-planned-as-2-part-militant-assault-libyan-official-says/

      2. wavegirl22 profile image46
        wavegirl22posted 4 years ago in reply to this

        While I applaud the statement I think you are making here (for once it is a breathe of fresh air to see there are Libyans Against Terrorism) in regard to MM's last post I think you misinterpreted what she was saying and may have done so just to take a dig at Obama.

        So I ask you how do you feel about the way that Romney used the riots in Libya and the death of Chris Stevens as a way to defame Obama. Had he kept quiet on Tuesday, he would be well placed now to raise some legitimate concerns about what happened: Why was the consulate in Libya so lightly guarded? What returns is the United States getting on the billions of dollars in aid it provides to Egypt? Why did we intervene in Libya but not in Syria? What’s our over-all policy for the Middle East? If he tries to make these points today or tomorrow, his intervention will be widely dismissed as another political ploy.

        Shoot first and aim later is surely not very Presidential.

        1. Reality Bytes profile image93
          Reality Bytesposted 4 years ago in reply to this

           


          Such as previous statements concerning other events by the current POTUS?

          "I don't have any details but the Cambridge police acted stupidly."

        2. Billy Hicks profile image90
          Billy Hicksposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          I promise you, someone in Romney's campaign is catching hell from the RNC, that press conference was a terrible idea. Matt Rhoades should have his head examined for letting Mitt Romney give that statement, and fired for letting him take questions after.

          The press was already beginning to hit the Obama administration over the so called "apology statement", and if Romney would have kept his mouth shut and just offered his condolences for the victims and their families, he could have derailed this bump the President has been getting, and possibly even gained some ground.

          Now, not only did he let the President "off the hook", he pretty much gave him a "get out of jail free" card on the whole issue. Just a pitiful example of campaign strategy by people who should definitely know better. This was the "Bill Buckner Moment" of the Romney/Ryan campaign.

          "Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake." ~Napoleon

          1. wavegirl22 profile image46
            wavegirl22posted 4 years ago in reply to this

            exactly!

            1. Petra Vlah profile image60
              Petra Vlahposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              by now we are so used to Romney gaffes that little comes as a surprise. Let's see what comes next

        3. oceansnsunsets profile image89
          oceansnsunsetsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Shoot first, aim later is what Obama said about Romney too, lol.   I am happy that Romney didn't just sit back on this one.  He was spot on, and if anyone wants to critique what he actually said, then I am curious how they could disagree with it.

          Its shameful to me, that there would be even ONE American, that would support Obama in what he has said after this all happened.  Obama IS very unpresidential. He IS sending mixed messages tot he world.  People in America are falling for goofy little quips that have been used before, like shoot first, aim later, without even THINKING for one minute if Romney even did something like that.  They just believe what they are spoon fed, and its like America is going comatose.  Truth be told, they probably don't like it that Obama made such a huge mistake, that shows his inner leanings, and un American ways, and don't want to be true, what actually is true.

          I don't feel bad for America anymore....those that care about freedoms for all, have fought a good fight, but you can't win against terrorists and those that sympathize with them, and apologize when American's share their views in not a movie, but a couple video trailers. 

          The White house wants people to REALLY think its all about that.  Its helping to cover a deeper truth of how America is perceived around the world.  If we actually think hard about how the world looks on America, then that will upset Obamas chances of being reelected, etc.  He hasn't even begun to really fundamentally change America like he said, yet.  He has alluded to it even.  Its alarming.  If America votes him in again, after what they know now, I won't feel bad one bit for what goes down, and I hope to get out.  It is no longer the country it was.

      3. oceansnsunsets profile image89
        oceansnsunsetsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        It wasn't even a film after all.  It was two smaller youtube videos, trailers. 

        It makes me think of other videos as well, where some show actual atrocities being done, by terrorists.  People need to wake up...  Even then, people want to stop the terror, not go on murderous rampages and blaming others for their evil. 

        Freedom for all, that is my hope for people everywhere.

  3. Reality Bytes profile image93
    Reality Bytesposted 4 years ago

    http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSN4NwaHQEk6lZQqwIbjfQF-CApDhYoYPei7W4WUu2-SWRetfxdiQ


    lol

    1. oceansnsunsets profile image89
      oceansnsunsetsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Exactly.....  people don't like the reality of what Islam is, what its prophet taught, and what its closest adherents know their leader taught.   If you point it out, you are the next target....  and they want to act like they don't realize what it looks like?  We all see it, and we already knew. 

      People need to be better accepting of reality.  It is what it is...stop being mad (not this poster I am responding to, but everyone)for people pointing out what is real and true.  This is what most of America is upset about if you think about it.  The side with the worse ideas, has to play nastier and be more deceptive, to cover ti all up.  That is what happens when you defend a bad idea, philosphy, or group of ideas as plays out in some religions in particular.  Why do people hate reality so much?  There is no getting away from it.

      People are hating and killing over it.....

  4. Wayne Brown profile image85
    Wayne Brownposted 4 years ago

    One thing that seems very likely....these were coordinated "attacks" (not protests) designed to take place on the anniversary of 9/11.  Our embassies were woefully unprotected and we are lucky that many more did not die in the early hours. I see nothing of the love and tolerance so associated with the Muslim faith when I view the video from news sources.  This is nothing more than a worked up mob mentality of people who have been given a free rein to act out without repercussions.  We can expect more of the same.  One might remember Ghadayfi and his smart mouth who carried on for months and months post Jimmy Carter making public statements about what he would do to America.  Ronald Reagan called his bluff on that one....it is amazing what fine work the F-111 Fighter-Bomber could do.  This region of the world does not recognize humility and tolerance as a strength.  That approach will only get us more of the same.  Each time an American life is lost in this process, it becomes a little easier for this administration to shrug its shoulders and attempt to "justify" what we did to deserve such behavior.  There is nothing in our actions which even comes close to the process of leadership.  Nothing.  ~WB

  5. jacharless profile image81
    jacharlessposted 4 years ago

    Regardless, someone just woke up half a billion sleepers, not including women and children, worldwide + is causing a unification between the three main sectors. That number is 10 times the entire WW2 military forces combined.

    22 countries in mass protest from Malaysia to India, Sudan to Lebanon... 6 US and 1 German embassy, a UK-US military base, plus restaurants, cars etc.

    This wasn't just from a video. But appears to have reached a boiling point because of it...

    And one can time something happening in Palestine or Iran any moment now -especially with a new round of protests by the Jihads in support of the Spring and the Brotherhood.

    Going to be one interesting weekend to say the least..

    James

    1. PhoenixV profile image79
      PhoenixVposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      What is your take on it? A natural occurrence or  contrived ?

      1. jacharless profile image81
        jacharlessposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        The scenario is difficult to access, but given the nature of tensions among the sects -generations of suppression and global influence to shift powers -the elastic has reached a snapping point.

        Granted, 01 to 12 has exceedingly stretched that band, but this is more of a natural occurrence. The uniting of the 3 sects on what seems a petty YouTube broadcast by an unknown, however, raises an eyebrow in the opposite direction.

        Above all, the danger in waking these feelings and frustrations by a huge collective is nothing short of catastrophic. It is easy to manage or engage 600,000 men marching from France to Moscow, in winter. But this scenario deals with upwards of a million well armed, trained, communicative, no-fear clusters of 50 to 2000, spread across three continents. It is nearly impossible to recognize them and even more bizarre to stop them all simultaneously. The shock of it, at this level comes from realizing the peaceful of them will take up arms to defend themselves, their fellow believers and against those who have forced this frustration.

        James

        1. PhoenixV profile image79
          PhoenixVposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          I cannot understand why anyone would not want property taxes, mortgage payments and executive orders, -you know- democracy and freedom? 

          Regardless of what the truths may be, arbitrarily killing people is evil.

    2. oceansnsunsets profile image89
      oceansnsunsetsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      I think those that are on the side of terror, or support those that are, are upset in part because of the anniversary of 9-11.  Its way worse than any two short video trailers of an unreleased movie.

      People world over are seeing again and again, how atrocious some people can be, and are reminded of how their more "peaceful" counterparts, or many of them, dancing in the streets because of a cowardly murderous attack on innocent human life.  THIS is, what it is...and it surely is infuriating on some level.   Killing more innocent people, then making excuses about it, while our president is shamefully (too good a word) apologizing, is going to create a lot more problems. 

      I hope the world is watching, especially my fellow Americans.  This has to end.  Everyone is in an upheaval, and people need to take responsibility for what they do, who and what they blame, and what they do to change things for the better.  Enough of the changing for the obvious worse.....

  6. mio cid profile image66
    mio cidposted 4 years ago

    If it is true that the great majority of muslims are not extremists and condemn the violence against anything not muslim, it would be nice to see it reflected in real life.

    1. oceansnsunsets profile image89
      oceansnsunsetsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      The reality we observe in this world, sheds the truest light on the truth of things.  In a time where we have such opposing views, from seemingly normal and healthy and thinking people, we need reality checks more than ever.

      You hit on the biggest key point of it all.  We see what we see.  People seem to be struggling with reality more than I have ever seen in my whole life.  Their responses to many things, show this to be true.

      Good thing we don't often do that with our health.  For example, if you get cancer, you might go to many of the unpleasant extremes to deal with it.   Its not pleasant, but denying the reality only brings you death faster anyway.  We don't deal in reality well, or some don't anyway.  If they did, and they were fair and really thinking hard about things.

  7. oceansnsunsets profile image89
    oceansnsunsetsposted 4 years ago

    No one ever had to LIKE reality, for people in this world, and over history, to have to deal with reality.

    We are caught up in a mentality, where we just don't want certain things to be true, or don't want to accept something might not be true.  People are just "side takers" anymore, it seems.

    This will come to bite us all, it will be unpleasant, it already is. 

    The victims and their families of 9-11, both this year and the past, know full well what it feels like to watch as others don't deal with reality.  My heart goes out to them.

  8. wavegirl22 profile image46
    wavegirl22posted 4 years ago

    If you really want to talk about reality first walk in the shoes of a Muslim living day to day in the Muslim world right now and then you can say this.

    1. oceansnsunsets profile image89
      oceansnsunsetsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Wavegirl, no offense, but you are really missing the point here.  I can prove this, because what you say there, has no bearing whatsoever on the fact that more innocent people died on 9-11 this year and in years past, and that a youtube video isn't the cause of that.

      Walking in their shoes, how about they walk in the shoes of the dead Ambassador?  What is you point exactly?  Walk in the shoes of someone still crippled or grieving over loss after an attack.  This is just a bad case of hoping to redirect the point, and hoping no one notices.  No one suggested we ought to not care about Muslims, or anyone.  I am asking you care more about why many are rioting and DON'T condemn the pure evil that comes so often.

      Denying the realities doesn't help.

  9. Billy Hicks profile image90
    Billy Hicksposted 4 years ago

    http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/26791231.jpg


    I just thought this was a cute pic someone made. It got a lol from me, and I figured I'd share it...

    Arguments resume.

    1. Hollie Thomas profile image60
      Hollie Thomasposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Emm, debatable, Tony Blair thought the bombing of Iraq was his Christian duty. Lots of people died.

      1. oceansnsunsets profile image89
        oceansnsunsetsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Huge difference, Jesus commanded the opposite of those kinds of things, and people can say anything.  The truth is, Islams prophet and teachings, the writings say a lot in regard to these things.  Don't take my word, read up on it yourself.

    2. oceansnsunsets profile image89
      oceansnsunsetsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Christianity is one tough religion.  Excellent point.  If anyone DID murder after someone made fun of it, the very words of Jesus would be the first to condemn them.....

      Weak religions have to defend words said of them, that are often true, based on their prophet and the writings.

  10. oceansnsunsets profile image89
    oceansnsunsetsposted 4 years ago

    No more libel in this thread please.  Calling people hateful, or full of hatred, and everything else I see by a couple here, is uncalled for.  IF you have a good point to make against me or others, say it....don't play games and hit below the belt.  That isn't cool.

    This is a forum site, where people can be civil, and use reasoned discussion and debate, or not.  If you can't, perhaps you aren't up for your own held beliefs for some reason.  I am going to ask in the future, that people respond to particular points I made, without cutting and pasting and distorting it.  It is quiet upsetting, and a showing of your own hand, if you resort to this kind of thing.  Showing ONE person holding a sign that goes contrary to something I have said about the murderous people, is not right, nor a response or rebuttal.

    Bring a good game, or don't play please.  Step up the debate... anyone can do what you are doing.  Yes...I am pointing it out.  Let us all be fair, and begin without trying to MISS the good points made.  If I make a bad point, ask me about it, ask if that is what I am saying. Here is an example...

    If I say people are rioting, and killing, ask me first, if I mean that all Muslims riot and kill people.  Rather, you already knew the answer, and didn't have a better response, so you choose to play like that.  Others are cheerleading and saying poor things about others here that make good points.  That is not right.  Stop it please.  Thanks in advance, and looking forward to more peaceful and conducive discussions in the future.

  11. oceansnsunsets profile image89
    oceansnsunsetsposted 4 years ago

    To you Don, and all here, and all Muslims as well that are true peace promoters, I absolutely stand behind.  Let there be no question. I personally have a dream that it would be ideal if we could all live and let live in this world. 

    I can live peaceably alongside of any religion, as long as they don't want to take away my personal freedoms.  I support theirs as well.  Thanks to all that support peace.  Please don't mistake the concern here by some, to be that they are against peaceful Muslims.

  12. wavegirl22 profile image46
    wavegirl22posted 4 years ago

    Can you please explain this a bit more. Is this what you think happens in the Muslim world? If so can you give us an example.

    I am a bit confused with this statement. Is it the ruling elite or dictators  . .will of the people? Who do you think the Islamic laws are a product of? Which country? Who what and where are you referring to?

    1. PhoenixV profile image79
      PhoenixVposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      I'm not sure what you are specifically asking, but my response is to Don's claim or suggestion that the overall practice of ideology and adherence to Islamic law is something elite or ruling class are deciding and the majority of people are just unwilling participants.  I just don't believe that is the case. I believe Don when he says they have more liberal or moderate adherents that want to change this, but I do not believe they are indicative of a pragmatic application.

  13. wavegirl22 profile image46
    wavegirl22posted 4 years ago

    PhoenixV - In my very humble opinion I do not understand how one can take part in a conversation of this magnitude without understanding what a repressive regimen is. You speak of common sense in your threads so I ask you what do you think a repressive regimen is. You say you are curious about it and it is surely an easy google search. It is important to understand this very basic concept before you can understand why Don started this thread in the first place.

    I wont even ask how or why Australia come into this conversation at this point but I am scratching my head in wonder.

    1. PhoenixV profile image79
      PhoenixVposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Exactly, why would they demonstrate in Sydney over a youtube video in America? Australia isnt considered a repressive regime, so no possible way to sweep that under the rug or shell game culpability. Of course all the people that are getting killed had no involvement in a youtube video either?

      Kids will be kids and some kid might make a video in the future and put it on youtube with a cartoon of the prophet and more innocent people are going to die. You explain to the families why they had to die.

      1. wavegirl22 profile image46
        wavegirl22posted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Change the subject all you want. Personally I have learned alot here from Don and I want to take the time to thank him for the time he spends trying to share his knowledge. But please if you too want to understand all that Don has shared you need to understand what a repressive regime is and what that does to a person.

        1. PhoenixV profile image79
          PhoenixVposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          I know what a repressive regime is. I know that its just being used as an excuse in this case. Because Australia isn't a repressive regime and repressive regimes cannot dictate people being insulted. But whatever you do, don't draw a picture of the prophet, even if its flattering, because innocent people could get killed and the families of the dead wont be interested in any nonsensical excuses.

          1. wavegirl22 profile image46
            wavegirl22posted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Please take no offense but do you read what you post before you hit submit? If you do maybe I am missing something as I do not understand that you say

            and then go on to say


            From the Dictionary:
            repressive |riˈpresiv|
            adjective
            (esp. of a social or political system) inhibiting or restraining the freedom of a person or group of people : a repressive regime.
            • inhibiting or preventing the awareness of certain thoughts or feelings : a repressive moral code.

            A google search on "repressive regimes"
            Repressive societies are defined as exerting pervasive state control over daily life, banning free speech, independent organizations, and political opposition, and practicing severe human rights violations. Source: Freedom in the World, 2007, published by Freedom House

            1. PhoenixV profile image79
              PhoenixVposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              That would be a great excuse but it does not fly in Australia.  Its not a repressive regime in Australia.  You are working off of a no true Scotsman fallacy=  Only repressive regimes produce people that are insulted which is an exercise in inanity somewhat like this very conversation has devolved into.

              1. wavegirl22 profile image46
                wavegirl22posted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Who is talking about Australia?

                This thread is about.  . ..

                Muslims deplore the killing of U.S. ambassador to Libya

                1. PhoenixV profile image79
                  PhoenixVposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  It was a rebuttal to the OP's suggestion that any negative actions by individuals can be blamed on a repressive regime and thereby exculpating individuals. And I showed that it was a false notion. If you would care to read the progression of the discourse it would save everyone some time bringing you up to speed on each and every past post. Have great day, goodbye.

                  1. wavegirl22 profile image46
                    wavegirl22posted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    I have read the progression and the only thing that is clear at this moment is that need to understood what a repressive regime is before you can rebutt anything.

                    Obviously when Don W suggested certain things for you to ponder you went to your many channels on your TV to come up with something 'smart' to say. Why not take this suggestion that you seemed to have ignored.

        2. Don W profile image82
          Don Wposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Thanks for your kind words. Glad you understand where I'm coming from.

  14. wavegirl22 profile image46
    wavegirl22posted 4 years ago

    Don V - I just want to take this moment out to thank you for this thread and to apologize if I took it in anyway off track. In my 3 years here on Hubpages it is hard to understand how this is the first time I have had the pleasure of reading your words. The forums are so much more enlightening when someone who actually knows what they are talking about can it express in a venue such as this and someone like me can take part and learn a thing or 2 and I am glad I stumbled in here.

    For your time and energy bringing the Muslim world in a brighter light then most are used to is laudable and I once again rise and give you a standing ovation.I wish there were more like you around. Its always a good thing to learn something.

  15. oceansnsunsets profile image89
    oceansnsunsetsposted 4 years ago

    It continues to amaze me (in a horrifying way, I literally can't believe it...), that people are still making these killings of innocent Americans on 9-11, more about the trailer of an unreleased movie. 

    People need to be strong, take pride or not in what they believe.  We see people doing this every day, and are often killed for their beliefs, but they would NEVER kill others for speaking badly of them. They would rather die.  Its immoral to focus on someone being offended...when the biggest offense to anyone is TAKING THEIR LIFE! 

    Do people not realize its almost like selling your soul, to minimize these deaths and putting down of America as we continue to see, in favor of people that would kill others, just for being insulted? 

    Those kinds of people, in free societies, are the ones that get locked up usually, to help maintain a peaceful society for the non law breakers.  Yet we sit back and believe the lies fed to us by the mainstream media.  Why are people checking their brains somewhere else...and being almost programmed it seems, to side with the  less likely, the illogical, and the immoral??? 

    In the meantime, good people continue to be maligned daily, and its like the fight of good and evil is raging bigger than ever, with the side of good going down....  Its literally hard, to watch the news, even the untainted news.....

  16. wavegirl22 profile image46
    wavegirl22posted 4 years ago

    It is times like these when I truly miss myownworld in the forums.

  17. maxoxam41 profile image80
    maxoxam41posted 4 years ago

    It is nice to see for once, the reflection of the truth, the representation of the people of Lybia and not what the media wants us to believe. Then, if the attackers were not the Lybians who are they? Unfortunately for us they are representants of the US. Salafists who were financed by the US, Qatar and Saudi Arabia.

 
working