yeah, I am writing about it
about what Americans being avoided by attracting them mostly by the new unusual president
I am not Palestinian but human
NOW LETS GET BACK TO OUR MAIN FOR TODAY
do you think Israel-Palestine recent scenario was planned for at this time to happen?
one year may be?
or it is a sudden consequence after launching Al_Qussam rockets by Palestinians?
I think it has been in the making for some time. I don't see how it couldn't be. I think maybe Isreal is being a little immature about denying cease fire pleads and stuff but at the same time, I don't think if I were there that I would believe it either.
The whole thing is really, really sad. I haven't got a clue about what is the right thing to do, I really don't. I can see both sides but think both are assholes! Sorry.
It's hard to say what Israel was thinking. They said a while back that they wouldn't make it a ground war, but we all know that didn't happen. So It could of possibly been planned for Israel to attack for a long time. From living in America and watching American news, it's hard to say what is real. This conflict does scare me though because it could turn into something really ugly.
It's already ungly. I thought for sure that Isreal was more morally just than this sherade of killing innocent children in the crossfire. It is awful.
I know that their children and women and innocent men or innocent people in general have been being killed for the longest time but there has to be other ways. I sympathize with them really I do, but and eye for an eye in this regard is not just.
Israel kept the peace as they were supposed to. It was Hamas to started firing at Israel. Knowing how well-armed Israel is. Being funded by Iran, still they don't have what Israel does. Israel wants peace. But, they can't sit there and allow Hamas to keep firing into them. I wouldn't sit still for it either.
I don't think this was a long-planned thing since Israel was keeping the peace. It seems that Hamas doens't understand that Israel is well-armed and could have already made that place a parking lot should have decided to. But, they didn't. They have the heart to try to keep peace and allow humanitarian aid through to them during them firing at them. How many countries would do that? Not many, maybe even none. They are at war, yet allowing help to get to them. It is Hamas that is keeping this going.
I think it's nice of Israel to let food, medicine and other supplies through to the people. Although I figure Hamas is stealing it and using it themselves and not allowing the citizens, for which it was mean, to have it. Since that's the kind of people Hamas is. Israel doesn't have to allow those supplies though, but they do.
Why is no one noticing this? Why is Israel getting the bad things said about them when it's Hamas that started this, Hamas that's keeping it going and Hamas that doesn't want peace?
The day after the election I was talking to some friends about Israel. Knowing who is going in to office, we are very concerned about Israel. One said that Israel had better make a move before he goes into office or they wont have any support, or at least that is the fear.
Yet, they kept peace, knowing Obama is not a supporter. If you have watched the debates, you saw him say pretty much that. I can't blame Israel from taking up for itself. I'll always stand behind Israel. And I pray the United States does also.
so, do you mean that innocent chidren and women didn't want peace while Israel did ?
and about letting food and medicines , it doesn't change a thing .
I know for sure that Israel doesn't want to kill innocents but they do so to let Hammas does what they want
they used innocents to support their plans
Hammas did launch as a normal response being under siege dying
I do not understand some people, who do not think. Why you hate Israel, who never started the war? Why are you whining about killing innocent children? Well by hating you will not solve the problems. Why you do not talk to Hamas why they provoke and shell Russian Katushas to Israel? Tell them it my harm their children. But fact is like Communists the same fascist, hid purposely to schools and hospitals. They are relatives to fascists and communists. That is well know fact.
They are killing their own people just on the basis of suspicion.
Have you eve been in Israel? Have you been in Gaza? You hate is unfounded. Look into you heart. The hate will bring only hate. Love will bring the fruit love.
Yeah! I mean it is ugly already but I think if other forces join in, like america and or their allies, it could turn into something bigger. It doesn't seem like they will reach any kind of agreement... so the possibility of other forces joinin is there, but I hope i'm wrong.
It's scares me, but I think americans oversee the gravity of the matter because, again, it really doesn't affect them.
True I fear that as well especially since America is a big supporter of Isreal.
ASU, my problem with it is because from what I understand, Hamas is Isaels leader and the one denying the cease fire actions and the one who "seemingly" out of the blue decided to start a full attack on Palistine.
I do see that they are allowing humanitarian supply in but to be more factual, there are so many being killed or wounded all of the sudden that there hospitals cannot support what is coming in and they have to travel all the way to Egypt for help.
I understand too, I really do, but what I don't understand is why Hamas decided to do it now.
I asked it also
my father told me that Israel promised to end the siege by this time but they didn't
Hamas launshed the rockets when Israel didn't do what they promised
Did Hmmas think that Israel would response if they act this way?
I think that most people agree that there are warmongering idiots on both sides of the divide!
We had a good debate on this thread about the issue,
The flash point is certainly the launching of Al-Qassam rockets into Israel. Why not you think of this angle? In Mumbai, when the Pakistan-trained terrorists held Mumbai for ransom for 3 days, the Jewish community living in Nariman square was particularly targeted. When in all other places, the terrorists went on a shooting spree, the Nariman square Jews were tortured and killed. Can you imagine the hatred and animosity of Muslims towards Jews?
It is being repaid by a different coin !
I am Muslim and I will tell you:
I don'tt hate Jews , I hate Israel
why? I guess I am a little surprised to see those words from you hate? Israel?
Person to person or hubber to hubber, I would like to know from you, as you why you hate Israel. I might be confused about your use of words.
I mean the leadrs when I say Israel Sandra
and why ? isn't killing innocents enough
but , is it healthy and right to hate who you think bad
I mean , can some degree of hate be right
do we hate injustice ?
may be I should say I hate killing innocents but doesn't that mean I hate who does this killing?
I think not always
I just wanted to clarify because I was sure that I misunderstood something.
It is natrual for people to be angry, no doubt I get pissed and use the word hate on occasion too.
I know you would never do any phyical harm to anyone, but from what I can see about what is going on over there is that Islam is acting a fool and gone totally nuts.
Israel is the land of Jews from biblical times...... you want their land only...?
Then where will they go ? This kind of attitude makes Israel go on the offensive.
But for the Palestinians, they should think twice before firing missiles...
As they are sure that they cant win, they should be friendly towards Israel.
A friend can get more rewards than an enemy.
if Israel people just want to live peacely , why did they have to build an army ?
they could have just mix with people , or may be the land wont be enough for both
they have to use the force to control the land
Arabs have lived in Paletain since 1400AD , do you know this ?
Before 1400 AD, who lived there ? Do you know ? It was the jews who crucified Jesus... ie., they lived in Jerusalem from the time of Jesus Christ. How and why was it occupied by the present Palestinians, who are not jews ? Do you know ?
It doesn't matter what happened way back then. We have people on the ground now, none of whom need to see their children killed. Most of the problems in and around the "holy land" are caused by people who look backwards instead of forwards.
I really don't know
I will appreciate if someone give us a short briefe of the land history
just possibly because all their neighbours wanted to wipe them out. Just a theory.
Then there's no way to help you to understand.
Why do you hate Israel? Is hate a productive emotion? Is hate encouraged by Islam?
I hate theier leaders for killing children
hate isn't a productive emotion but is healthy in some degree
do you hate evil?
and no , hate is not enourged by Islam
DO you hate Hamas, and Hezbollah, and Al Queda as well? How about North Korea, Russia, and the USA? ALl of those kill children.
I don't hate anything, evil or not. It's like drinking poison and waiting for someone else to die.
so, you don't hate evil
I don't hate all of them but I don't like them either
I dislike the US politics
what's wrong about hating evil anyway ?
All I would like to add to this discussion is that the only thing that one should hate is hate itself.
Actually when we start with the assumption that we are right/correct and others aren't then that opens the door to misunderstanding/intolerance. All it requires is a sincere effort to see things from all perspectives before coming to easy conclusions.
Never judge a man until you've walked a mile in his shoes.
You are safe then - a mile away, and he's barefoot.
Israel Refuses Ceasefire Plea
Thursday, January 01, 2009 4:55 PM
(Source: Daily Post; Liverpool)By ED JAMES
Israel Refuses Ceasefire Again
January 6, 2009 (LPAC)
A Norwegian doctor in Gaza says it's "An all-out war against the civilian population of Gaza"
Children killed in gaza by shooting them directly in their chest and head
That is just terrible! Venu, I am sorry I do not believe that an eye for an eye or justice consist of shooting childen in the chest or head or by accidental crossfire. It aint right and pepetuating the cycle of violence doesn't lead to anything but more suffering.
I never advocate the policy of "an eye for an eye" or any other form of violence. By those missiles, which went into Israel, do we have any knowledge about who were killed, whose eyes or heads or legs or hands were chopped off? Israelis, as far as I understand do not make a hue and cry after being hit. They just immediately react.
That may be their practice. Because they are placed in a very dangerous environment, full of enemies, ready to wipe out Israel, if and when they can. But I never advocate any kind of violence be it by Arabs or Jews. But the first perpetrators only are called terrorists.... and not those who react in self-defence.
We can satisfy ourselves by the fact that there are several anti-Israeli demonstrations all over the world, including India and America... especially New York.
Israel has total control of the border crossings and has held Gaza under siege for months, occasionally allowing less than subsistence level 'aid' to get through to the people they are starving to death. The siege has killed far more Palestinians than the number of Israelis killed by Palestinian rockets. The Gaza Palestinianshave been deprived of food, medicine, fuel and of course also of dignity. They are being treated like caged animals. Hamas have blood on their hands, but the whole world understands that Israel's response has been wholly disproportionate. There have even been protests by orthodox Jews, dissociating themselves from the warmongering Israeli leadership.
I think Israel is figthing Iran in fact as this one do support Hammas
Look, here's the deal for those folks in denial...
Israel and Palestinians in the West Bank have always hated each other because of religious beliefs. Regardless of who is right, the bottom line is:
Palestinian Muslims harbor and hide Hamas, so that Hamas can try to kill Israeli Jews and terrorize Israel. Hamas hides among Palestinians for protection, making it difficult for Israel to fight back without killing civilians (many of them willingly allow themselves to be used for human shields).
Regardless of who is right or not, it's clear that Israel just wants everyone to be at peace - but at the same time doesn't want Hamas to have free reign to bring in as many weapons as possible. Those guys (Hamas and many Palestinian Muslims) have said clearly many times that they "will not stop until every Israeli is dead and Israel is wiped of the map." That's a quote by the way.
I'm not partial to either side. I'm not a Jew nor am I Muslim. I'm not even religious for that matter - but I do have common sense. Common sense says, based on all information available, Hamas will not stop firing rockets and suicide bombinging innocent Jewish people because of their beliefs. Israel will probably always have to protect itself (during times of "war" or not) as long as Hamas controls the Gaza strip.
And here's the deal for you as you seem to be in denial yourself
Guess your definition of denial is anyone with an opposing view to yours?
Israel has made it clear they will squeeze the Palestinians until they are completely removed from their homeland. They have relentlessly done so since the formation of the current state of Israel.
Seriously - taking one side whilst claiming complete impartiality. You sure you are not religious?
As for Israel wanting peace - of course they do - once they have got rid of the Palestinians.
For those in denial I can repeat again - it is not about religion, it is all about land. To save me some re-typing, here is the link to what I said already http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/8290?page=4#post113589
do you mean Hammas has to give up to Israel will of expansion
do they have to accept Israel meaning of peace
Complete blackout on Gaza here, US cable news, the last 3 days. It is now Obama 24/7 on CNN. You can predict, when you turn on CNN at random, you will see Obama.
Now now ReuVera don't be fibbing. This map from the Palestine wikipedia, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestine is from the 5th century after God allowed your ancestors to be kicked out of the land for their inequities and prior to the birth of Islam. Well I guess they wouldn't have been your ancestors though if you are an Ashkenazi Jew, would they.
This map from the same wikipedia is dated 1923.
This is a quote from one of your war (criminal) heroes from this site http://desertpeace.wordpress.com/2008/1 … el-indeed/
That's amazing knolyourself. Gaza still fills the news here in Canada. CTV are even hinting of suspected Israeli war crimes for the use of white phosphorus too and showing the videos of them being dropped in the background as an Israeli official spews lies denying it. There were protests all over the place again today. Jews, Palestinians and people from all cultures came together to protest against zionist war crimes in Ottawa today. There are a pile of Jews coming out against Israel, good for them. The news did mention that Obama will visit Canada as his first visit outside of the US.
I don't know why we are using this thread now when we have been using Paraglider's thread to talk about the Palestinian/Israeli conflict for the last 3 months. There's a lot of revealing information about the zionists on it. If you do a Google search for 'How to Become Vice President' here in Canada Paraglider's thread is on the first page, 5th spot.
Why don't we just continue to use Paraglider's thread?
MakeMoney posted some interesting maps on the other thread about this matter, showing the constant expansion of Israel and the squeezing of Palestinian territories.
The Gaza strip measures 38 by 8 miles and houses some 1.5 million people. It is one of the most densely populated places on the planet. And it has been under blockade for 18 months. Recently, even members of the Palestine national football team were prevented (by Israel) from travelling to Qatar for a friendly match. Students who manage (against the odds) to win scholarships abroad are also not allowed (by Israel) to take up their places. Israel murders Hope.
Israel controls what and who goes in and out of Gaza. They have killed large numbers by deprivation (food, medicines). FAR MORE than the number of Israelis killed or wounded by Gaza rocket fire (28 at the last count).
As it happens, I agree that many, perhaps most, Israelis want to live at peace. But the leadership is warlike, xenophobic and probably Zionist. The leadership is abhorred by Orthodox Jews. What more do you need to know?
Far too general a statement. Many Orthodox Jews support the current govt. I think you may be referring to a few of the ultra-Orthodox, who think Israel shouldn't exist until the coming of the Messiah?
"How and why was it occupied by the present Palestinians, who are not jews ?" Apparently you have religious property rights. The property is yours if god says it is. Then you got secular property rights. The property is yours if you got a property deed. Don't think there is any place in the world except Israel where religious property rights are the law.
Palestinians are the newest of all the peoples on the face of the Earth, and began to exist in a single day by a kind of supernatural phenomenon that is unique in the whole history of mankind, as it is witnessed by Walid Shoebat, a former PLO terrorist that acknowledged the lie he was fighting for and the truth he was fighting against:
“Why is it that on June 4th 1967 I was a Jordanian and overnight I became a Palestinian?”
“We did not particularly mind Jordanian rule. The teaching of the destruction of Israel was a definite part of the curriculum, but we considered ourselves Jordanian until the Jews returned to Jerusalem. Then all of the sudden we were Palestinians - they removed the star from the Jordanian flag and all at once we had a Palestinian flag”.
“When I finally realized the lies and myths I was taught, it is my duty as a righteous person to speak out”.
It is from the term "Philistines" that the name "Palestinians" has been taken. Actually, the ancient Philistines and modern Palestinians have something in common: both are invaders from other lands! That is precisely the meaning of their name, that is not an ethnic denomination but an adjective applied to them: Peleshet, from the verb "pelesh", "dividers", "penetrators" or "invaders"
Well, if you have guts to read more dry facts, history facts, facts of sanity, go to-
Otherwise just drop the topic, as like ASU stated “ there's no way to help you to understand.”
P.S. btw, Jews lived in Egypt for 400 years, but they never claim it their land
Dear friend, you have reminded them...
they may claim Egypt also after all of Palelstine are taken.
Please read about the Arab-Israeli conflicts of 1967 and 1973.
Israeli soldiers have penetrated deep into 14 Arab countries including Egypt.
But they could not keep their conquests.
They will be doomed by earning the wrath of many countries. That is their fate.
Way back when Israel was allotted the little piece of land they got. I thought it was the most beautiful thing I would ever see on this world. I was only about 11-12 yrs old at the time. My parents had agreed , yes, it is wonderful for the Jewish people to have their own home but it will be a battle to keep it. I didn't fully understand at the time but use to walk around so proud of our world. Today, I show my sons the little piece of land Israel is in comparison to Palestine and they ask, why can't they just leave Isreal in peace? they only have a little tiny piece of the land...I shake my head and say ...it's to continue their war mongering, bloodlust, greed for what Israel has, nobody really knows...long before it hit the world news, Israel was getting hit again and again...they finally start hitting back and now people try to make them look like the bad ones...meanwhile, how long they waited before striking back ...I feel badly for Israel. They are survivors and still must fight to survive for existence. I agree that others want what Israel has. They worked hard for eachother and their children to be where they are now with the help of the US. They didn't let pride get in the way to accept this help. They have a right to exist also. It should be time to step up and tell people, leave the Isrealites in peace and I bet, Peace would fall all around....if only given the chance.
Dame I guess you have never looked at how much land Israel has stolen from the Palestinians.
From http://desertpeace.wordpress.com/2008/1 … el-indeed/
In the words of the late Israeli General Moshe Dayan:
This is how much land they want.
Mike- Is that 2005 picture accurate? More ever the Greater Israel Border seems a very dangerous agenda (if at all it is true)
Mike- Not that I want to sound disrespectful of your research but the link you posted seems to be from a Anti Israel propaganda website where the home page has these words which seems hardly credible "Israeli Kids-"Israel" Prepares its Children to become Professional Terrorists"
I don't know if search results prove anything per se. I am actually more neutral on this issue but still presently feel the violence should stop and no more innocent people should be harmed. Violence begets violence why can't peace be given a chance after all we all are humans first before having an identity of religion or nationality.
There is no serious movement in favour of "Greater Israel" as per that map. Sure, you can find a few nutters, but that's it.
Money Maker have you ever been in Israel?
You are misinformed by propaganda and lies.
The Palestinians states did not exist. Even Arafat declined to sing agreements.
The Holy Land was compound of three ethnic groups (not states) Jews, Christians and Arabs.
Today so called Palestinians do not want to admit they are Arabs, since then they belongs to Arabia and Jews belong to Holy Land. Do Christians claim it is their state? Do they blow themselves with the bombs to kill Jews or drown them in the see?
Let be reasonable, Palestinian state does not exist even it was offered to them, but they denied it. They want all.
But it is God's land and perhaps you will see it later.
Who's *they*? And do you use such blanket terms when talking about the Palestinians, a substantial number of which would like to wipe Israel off the map completely?
Talking about the maps of land that Israel has "stolen" is a misrepresentation. And each of the maps has its own, rather obvious distortion if you know the history of the region.
The first map (1947) assumes Arabs had control over all land except for Jewish settlements, which is untrue since all of the land was owned by Britain. Most of the land was uninhabited or sparsely inhabited by Bedouin, so you might as well paint most of it gray and say "uninhabited British."
The second map is accurate, but most of the Israeli land was uninhabited land, esp in the south (the Negev). When the Arabs rejected the UN plan and attacked Israel, they did so not because they thought it was an unfair split, but because they didn't think Jews should've gotten any land at all.
The third map shows you the result of Arab wars and attacks - you might lose land.
The fourth map shows the erosion of the West Bank, and is the only one showing true Israeli expansionism in the area. It's clear no independent state can function like that, so I believe that, provided the Palestinians can go about their own business and stop making the destruction of Israel their central tenet, Israel would agree to 1967 borders. That's a big "if", though - more like a "when", that's several generations away.
The final map is a "greater Israel" map that's only taken seriously by a few zealots. You'll find wider acceptance of "greater Arabia" maps among Arab zealots who include countries like Spain and France in it.
At each stage, Israel has accepted the land division, and the Palestinian leaders / Arab nations have rejected it, and lost. Israel accepted the 1948 division, and then the 1967 war was started to wipe Israel out.
Think what you want countrywomen. The web site says "Israeli Kids-"Israel" Prepares its Children to become Professional Terrorists" with the photo of Israeli kids signing their names on bombs that were about to be lobbed into Lebanon two years ago. Hardly credible? No very credible. Photos of Israeli kids signing bombs were all over the news when Israel bombed the hell out of Lebanon two years ago. I don't know if they are getting their kids to sign the bombs that are dropped on Gaza this time but yesterday on the CTV it showed how a bunch of zionist Israelis were gathered at the Gaza border to watch the "fireworks". It showed one Israeli lady saying "this is fun". I have been following the Palestinian/Israeli conflict for a few years countrywomen and have learned that you can't believe much coming out of Israel.
I zoomed the picture. It’s written there in English “To Nazrala from Israel” (little girls don’t know how to spell)
Stupid actions. I remember the campaign about those pictures two years ago. I’ve read that they were artillery shells in reality. Why at all little girls were allowed so close to real war stuff. I also remember that it was said that those pictures were staged by journalists, mostly foreign photographers who told "hey, your cousins in America will see you!" so the kids, who were bored and restless and had been cooped up in bomb shelters for 5 days (the girls were from Kiryat Shmona, an Israeli town that had being bombed from Lebanon territory by Hezbollah for a long time), took the felt markers and drew messages to nasrallah.
It’s a shame that kids were allowed to do this. Too bad children are involved into this. Anyway, what the girls did was a solitary instance and shame to those who let it happen. Jewish parents do not teach their children to be soldiers and suicides. Jewish parents want to see their children as doctors and teachers, as engineers and parents.
Russians used to sign their bombs for fascists and the allies also used to sign their bombs with personal messages and Americans did the same in the Korean "Police Action".
I don’t say it is acceptable. It is ugly, as anything in war.
These pictures are ugly too:
http://bp3.blogger.com/_vC43AIa-0YU/RsL … .jpgbzbmxr
http://zioneocon.blogspot.com/pal%20chi … rifles.jpg
http://www.seraphicpress.com/images/isl … azi%20kids
Nobody will benefit from hate.
Now AOL News is also reporting that Israel is shelling Gaza with the incendiary agent white phosphorus.
Using white phosphorus as a weapon of war is a war crime according to the Geneva Convention.
Mike - That is so terrible about WP. I guess I am not as well versed with the ground situation over there as you are. I usually rely on BBC and feel they are one of the most reliable news agency. Why can't peace be given a chance. I feel so sad whenever I read the atrocities committed by humans against fellow humans (at least animals which kill each other do that for food but this is something else).
There is an article about it on the BBC website:
"Medics in Gaza say latest casualties include at least 60 people affected by suspected phosphorus shells fired illegally near civilian areas.
An Israeli army spokeswoman strongly denied the report, saying all its munitions complied with the law.
An Israeli spokesman also denied Human Rights Watch allegations of multiple use of white phosphorus in the bombing. "
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle … 823078.stm
LondonGirl- So officially the BBC is reporting that this claim of WP usage is repudiated by Israelis as false but the Photos/Doctors claims are contrary. I guess I would have to then believe the later. Btw were you aware of this piece of information being mentioned in this hub that Israel could have started this instead of Hamas. Read this hub: http://hubpages.com/hub/Gaza-This-Is-No … A-Massacre
The BBC is saying it's alleged, denied, and the truth not yet known. Which seems fair enough to me.
I saw that post, yes. I can say for sure that the ceasefire wasn't absolute on the Gazan side - there were still rockets and air raid warnings regularly in Sderot, for example.
There were a series of violations of the ceasefire from both sides, it's certainly not as simple as protrayed in that hub, "Israel broke ceasefire first".
In chronological order:
1. 30th Oct. 2008:
"Palestinian militants have fired a rocket at Israel from the Gaza Strip, in violation of a four-month-old truce.
After the attack, Israeli troops closed cargo crossings into Gaza, which they control, until further notice.
It is the second such strike within 10 days, both of which were claimed by a previously unheard-of group calling itself Hezbollah Palestine.
Rocket barrages from Gaza largely ended after Israel and militant groups agreed a truce in June. "
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle … 699429.stm
2. 31st Oct. 2008:
Palestinian militants have fired two anti-tank missiles at Israeli forces from the Gaza Strip, violating a four-month-old truce, Israel has said.
The Israeli military said troops investigating "suspicious movements" along the fence marking the edge of the Strip came under fire.
The incident was said to be the first use of such weapons during the truce.
It came a day after officials told the Israeli media they could not confirm reports of an earlier rocket attack.
Israel had closed cargo crossings in the Gaza Strip in response to Thursday's reported attack.
No Palestinian militant group claimed responsibility for the anti-tank missile attacks, and no casualties were reported.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle … 702311.stm
3. 5th Nov. 2008:
Hamas has fired multiple rockets into Israel hours after six fighters died during Israel's first major incursion into the Gaza Strip since June's truce.
Israel said 35 rockets and mortars were fired, but gave no word on casualties.
Troops had entered Gaza to destroy what Israel said was a tunnel dug by militants to abduct its troops.
One militant died in the gunfight, and a subsequent Israeli air strike on Hamas positions in southern Gaza killed at least five fighters, medics said.
An Israeli military spokeswoman said three air strikes took place, targeting militants who had fired mortars and rockets at Israeli forces.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle … 709603.stm
4. 6th Nov. 2008:
Israel says it favours an extension of the truce in Gaza, despite an outbreak of violence in the past two days.
"We hope the truce can be applied again, we believe in it and it looks like things are calming down," said deputy Defence Minister Matan Vilnai.
The five-month-old calm between Israel and Gaza militants seemed in jeopardy after an Israeli incursion and a rocket barrage from the Palestinian side.
A seventh militant was killed in an Israeli air strike on Wednesday night.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle … 712552.stm
Thanks for posting this Hub countrywomen. CJStone is doing a good job of telling the truth. The home made Hamas rockets are a result of the continual occupation of Palestine as well as the blockade of Gaza. Both Bush and the Israeli authorities are saying that Hamas took over Gaza with a coup but the rest of the world is recognizing Hamas as the democratically elected government of Gaza. Israel started the blockade of Gaza over two years ago because Hamas was elected. What are the Palestinians in Gaza suppose to do, lie down and die in this concentration camp that the zionists have made for them?
The zionists are killing Christians too Vlad as we see from this list
http://www.jerusalemites.org/crimes/cri … index.htm.
As I understand it, getting some Willy Pete on you (White Phosphorus) is about as bad as being Napalmed.
It is an excruciatingly painful way to die, and once you get hit with it your fuked.
Ugh, This is so wrong. Not only that, they are using Cluster Bombs too (as usual).
I saw a documentary about 2 weeks ago I think, about how people in Lebanon still dying and losing limbs from cluster bombs, only 90% or was it 80% of them explode when they hit the ground, And I think Israel have some really bad quality ones, they are suppose to detonate if they lay on the ground for some time, can't remember if the problem were that the ones Israel uses never detonates, or they are just so poorly made that only few does. But they look like toys, so espiecially childrens pick them up play with them(BOOM), they get into harvestors(BOOM), or farmers hit them with a shovel (BOOM) or sometimes by simply walking on them (BOOM) and they can lay around for years. Theres a movement trying to illegalize cluster bombs because they are so dangerous after the fighting have stopped and cluster bombs is a cruel weapon (not that all other weapons aren't), that have no other reason to exist other then to harm civilians. Cluster bombs have been proven really bad for actually combat and a normal precise bomb is a much better weapon. Cluster bombs are for killing civilians and nothing else.
No MM...I was not aware of this information.Now I really have to keep a serious kernal of doubt about Israel. As usual, censoring the news is becoming quite the plate for the government. Nobody is looking good. It's all a very sad state of affairs and I still don't agree with there being any sort of war. Leaders should show pride to their country and people by speaking at negotiation tables and letting the world see it live. Let the truth be told as they say.
Dame, for heavens sake, don’t take for granted those information Money Maker is trying to sell you. It’s all biased. He derives his knowledge from questionable blogs and Wikipedia, i.e. sites where anyone can publish any information, as well as misinformation. Palestinian nation did not exist way back in 1947. They come up to life after 1967.
Arabs lived together with Jews on that land, but nobody drove them away after Israel was legally and lawfully proclaimed a sovereign country in 1948. Arabs left Israel following propaganda (please, check all my links from my posts, they are not from Wikipedia, but from independent educational sources), Jews were asking Arabs to stay and build the country together. But hatred was stronger than love in the hearts of Arabs.
The war is not about the land; Arabs have enough land of their own to live and thrive. It’s all about power and greed and envy.
The war is NOT a war between Jews and Arabs. It is a war against terrorism.
Israel using white phosporus... Israeli children signing their names on the bombs to be loaded.. Israeli bombing kills children, women... Israelis steal land belonging to Palestinians.. Whose land was it anyway? If we go back 1000 years, why not we go back 2000 years?
We may consider the position of Israelis and where they are geographically located. When any person is placed in a very dangerous position, they tend to do whatever is necessary to protect themselves. Look at their history. Persecution at the hands of Nazis before 65 years.. how harsh was it.. the same people have to face another persecution by muslim neighbours. Whatever they do to protect their citizens cannot be taken as war-crime. Their bombings would have killed Palestinian children and women as did Palestinian missiles inside Israel.
Normally people tend to take light of larger crimes; they are very much worried about lesser crimes. Before talking justice, we should ascertain why Palestinians fired missiles into Israel. Without explaining that, there is no point in accusing Israel.
It has been explained several times. Did you not read it?
I said "we should ascertain" why Palestininans fired.... that is, ascertain from Palestinians who initiated the present mess.
Hammas mustn't have tried to shot innocents
they could be killers but Israel army is a worse killer
I mean , killing and wounding thousands of innocents because Hammas has just threatened few citizens is a racism
and please , there is no execuse to kill children
do you think it would be justice to punish your kid because of you?
If we go back 2000 years then the English would have to get out of the British Isles. The same for numerous displaced people around the world. Depending on where you live in India that could mean you too Venugopal. If we just went back 500 years millions of people from North and South America would have to return to the land of their ancestors. If we are going to call ourselves a civilized world then ethnically cleansing a people from their land should not be allowed. This ethnic cleansing of the Palestinian people has been going on for over 60 years mostly thanks to US vetoing every UN resolution against Israel.
I said 2000 years because Jews existed around Jerusalem from the time of Jesus, ie, 2008 years before. Same theory cannot be applied everywhere.
Indian civilisation existed long before those times.
Americans need not fear of returning to their native lands as there is no such demand by the native people.
Ethnic cleansing can be done wherever there is unfair demands for expulsion of a whole people from a land universally accepted as a nation. (Israel).
American veto confirms that justice is alive and that there is atleast one saviour for the hapless Jewish people who suffered throughout history.
LondonGirl- WOW!! That's a lot of research you put in there. Thanks for that impartial chronology of this whole tragedy. Yes even I suspect that there is more to it than that meets the eye. Both the sides are guilty but one side is totally getting wiped out.
You must also bear in mind that all of londongirl's "research" comes from the BBC.
The BBC is owned by the British government. Which is owned by the banks, the oil companies and the international corporations, all of whom have a vested interest in seeing continued strife in the region. And many of which are owned by Jews.
Bear that in mind when you take these as "impartial"
Personally, I think the BBC is disgusting and have done a very very poor job of giving impartial coverage.
Mark- First of all one coverage like the present crisis in Gaza shouldn't be the yardstick to judge BBC. Even in India my father used to tune to Radio to listen to BBC News and even he had high regard for BBC's coverage. I am not saying there are no vested interests but the overall perception of it being "disgusting" does surprise me. I have heard people having some unflattering words for CNN or Fox News but never for BBC.
Now coming to the present coverage yes even I have some issues with it. Since I believe in them even I feel a little let down when I don't get certain information from them.
1) Not stating earlier (2 weeks back) that both the sides could be guilty about starting the present crisis (only showing one side instigating and the other side retaliating).
2) Not coming clear about Israel's usage of White Phosphorus (and if at all used was it used just as a smoke screen as sometimes being mentioned or deliberately used against international conventions)
So coming to your perception about BBC I would like to know why you have such a strong opinion against them. And also whom else to trust for accurate unbiased coverage. I don't mean to be disrespectful to you and hope that you will consider this as a sincere enquiry.
The BBC is a public-service broadcaster, but by no means a govt. mouthpiece. You only have to look at the huge dust-up a few years ago that lead to the Hutton Report - where the BBC accused the govt. of lying to go to war in Iraq.
The "owned by Jews" line seems horribly suggestive of some sort of "international Zionist conspiracy" line, to me. Are you going to quote the "Protocols of the Elders of Zion" any time soon?
CW - this reply is for you also.
I have no particular axe to grind with the jews. I was merely making a statement of fact. Take a look at the banking system and how much support that gets from our government. Which pays BBC executives massively over inflated salaries.
You may read into it what you will.
If I have an axe to grind it is with the top-paid 0.001% of the government/business/media combine. Which includes jews/arabs/anyone at the top of the political/money tree.
Sure, the BBC is a public service. Just like the police, local councils and military.
If you trust a "public service" to act in your best interests - you are nuts. Because you are going to find that the interests of the country are somewhat different to yours. Unless you happen to own an oil company.
I admit, there has been the occasional clash, but by and large, the BBC does their job - which is to distract public attention away from the truth of many matters and justify the extra taxes we pay to keep the executives in Rolls Royces.
The BBCs coverage of this war has been very wishy-washy. They describe themselves as "an unrivalled resource of authoritative fact and comment."
What a joke. Take a look at the Q&A on the conflict (not a war) -
That is a pretty one-sided collection of "authoritative facts"
You cannot look at one single government owned source as a news source. ~You have to look at other sources also and make an informed decision.
CW - I haver had a computer meltdown and am using a backup at the moment. When my main machine has been fixed, I will drop a list of alternative sources.
Mike- Looking forward to the alternative sources. Btw why don't you write a hub about these issues and educate most of us who may find seeking the "truth" is a much harder task then it seems to be. At least once we have a gist in the hub then for further information we can go to the source too. I usually like to watch on TV as I already spend so much time in front of the computer. So can you suggest any alternative TV channels too. Btw wish you good luck with your computer and hopefully it is up&running soon.
One side isn't really getting wiped out, though. If Israel wanted to, I'm sure it could bomb the whole Gaza strip back to the Stone Age in hours.
That doesn't mean I think civilian casulaties are just OK. But neither do I think Israel's going all-out against the civilian population.
I mean not literally getting wiped out but still facing a huge number of casualties. Maybe Israel isn't going all out because then the International Pressure would be way too much to handle(just my personal opinion). I am also not pointing fingers only at Israel as both the sides are guilty and need to sit down to talk for peaceful resolution. I saw the movie "Schindler's List" and read about the treatment of Jews during the holocaust(a very painful tragedy in Human History) which made me have a balanced view of this whole issue. But now due to this present crisis I am slowly beginning to tilt towards Palestine as the Israelis are doing the same towards Palestinians similar to what the Nazis did to them. I am very confused about what to make of this whole scenario
I agree MK ... somebody is getting rich somewhere. It saddens me to see any people getting attacked and dying for reasons not of their choosing. A little off the bend here ... I really wish a UFO would come along n make us all look at something new then maybe there would be a world unity?
This is the starting news that is airing every half an hour on CTV now.
Israel accused of dropping burning chemicals on Gaza.
Why aren't we getting this sort of news in US. Is Canada more neutral than US towards Israel.
It was the same when Bush was pushing for the war in Iraq. CBC is generally unbiased here but it didn't start airing that Israel is accused of dropping white phosphorus on Gaza until last night after CTV had been airing it all day yesterday. Harper our Prime Minister with a minority is a stanch supporter of Israel but he may be gone after January 27th. Either Harper will have a week minority or a coalition will be running the government. It's in the hands of the coalition now depending on what Harper's budget looks like. Harper has lost a pile of support over the last couple of weaks. The US gives billions of dollars to Israel. Canada doesn't. I'd be interested in seeing Mark's list of alternative news sources when he gets his main computer fixed as well. I don't think you can get totally unbiased news from the TV any more. The internet is a better source. For instance this is what a friend sent me today.
"Jews were asking Arabs to stay and build the country together. But hatred was stronger than love in the hearts of Arabs."
Since no published informantion is any good except yours, I have known personally Palistinians, who were driven from their homes by fear campaigns, of Jewish self defence and terrorist groups like the Stern gang. Same as the settlers are doing now, and the expropreation for security zones as well as host of other reasons.
1.If your friends were driven from Israel by extremist Jewish propaganda, it was their choice. There was other propaganda as well, asking them to stay.
2. I won’t be influenced by any other information when I know what I am talking about. I am siding with my people, what’s wrong with it?
3.This is the war about being free from terrorism.
Here are a few that I have used. When I get my bookmark list back I will be able to add more
I don't necessarily agree with any of these, but I like to get differing opinions when I am looking at something I know little about -
And one of my favorites -
The job I do, I am bombarded with bullshit press releases disguised as "news." My current favorite is pravda. If ever there was a worse news source, I have yet to find it -
http://blog.luxuryproperty.com/luxury-r … ys-pravda/
Oh, they have a long and successful history of lying and a great skill at producing skewed half-lies. FoxNews is a baby compared to them
I have no doubt. They are fantastic at all sorts of BS. Whenever I want to find something out I check them and believe the opposite
Their forum is pretty entertaining although I have never bothered to join. I get into enough arguments here.
Thanks Mark (I got the name right this time) I read so many posts from Mike about the Palestine Issue that I made that typo earlier. Thanks for that list and I know I have a lot of reading to do (I just have been feeling little out of time since now my regular work has picked up a little since last one week). I did like reading CJStone's article and hopefully you or Mike can write a detailed hub too. Btw in US I will have to check whether those Canadian Channels are available which Mike was mentioning? Do you suggest any alternative TV Channels which are followed more in US like CNN or MSNBC. Looking forward to your reply.
That pravda forum is quite entertaining indeed Mark. Although I don't think you or I would get into many arguments there, unless they have a Christian/Atheist forum. They seem to be ready to take a strip off any zionist supporter or shill as they call them. That forum is not for the weak of heart.
I couldn't find the thread titled "Just say 1948" they mentioned but one of them posted a warning that Israel was sending unsolicited spam e-mail looking for volunteers for their propaganda war. Similar to what I mentioned to you countrywomen. Check this out. http://vineyardsaker.blogspot.com/2009/ … alert.html
I looked at some of the pro-Israel propaganda that the shills, I mean volunteers are suppose to post and I don't think it is a coincidence that ReuV posted a couple of the same images on the previous page.
Hi ReuVera no, I don't take anything or anyone at face value, lol . I just try to stay objective so I don't get caught up in any false allegations. Nobody wants to be anybody's fool, right,
If you are in the northern part of the US you should be able to pick up CBC and CTV countrywomen. BBC also airs on CBC at 6:00 PM for an hour, at least it does in the EST time zone. I got my Google adsense account disqualified so if I were to put any of this stuff on a page it would be on my own web site or blog domain, rather than a Hub. That's why I just post in the forums.
I am in the northern part actually Seattle which is close to Vancouver. I will have to check with comcast listings. Btw after the first one month my google account had issues then I applied again in December and it got approved. Maybe you can try again. If you do have some blog where you write then you can link it here for us to read. You do spend a lot of time and effort in researching this issue. And I also do hope you cover the issue from Israel's perspective too as it also has a right to exist along with Palestine. I just hope peace returns soon and some talks are held to arrive at a solution after this tragedy.
Mike if the Google folks don't reinstate your account then if someone else whom you are close to like a family member's can apply for a new one or their existing account can be tied to this hub pages account(just a suggestion). Btw just now I read the UN building in Gaza has been hit by Israel. Although Israel claims it was by mistake as they were retaliating against some attacks from that area but I am not sure whether to believe that or not.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/16/world … st.html?em
Thanks countrywomen. I've tried to get Google to reinstate me with no luck. Take the information and write a Hub of your own if you want, in fact write 60 of them if you want.
I find it hard to look at both sides of the story when this genocide is happening. Over 1,000 Palestinians dead in Gaza now with over a third of them being women and children. Over 100,000 Palestinians have been forced to leave their homes to try to avoid getting killed.
I don't believe it was an accident either. The UN rejected the Israeli claim that militants had fired from in or near the compound as “entirely baseless.” Same as last week when they targeted the schools. Three shells of white phosphorous hit the UN compound that housed humanitarian supplies. The zionist *&#!s are targeting media outlets too. Two years ago Israel deliberately targeted a UN outpost killing a couple of UN peace keepers while the zionists were bombing the hell out of Lebanon. The outpost that wasn't near anything and had a big UN sign on the roof was under fire for hours. The peace keepers died in the bunker. They targeted civilians that were trying to flee during the Lebanon conflict too. You can't believe anything Israeli authorities say.
I do hope there is some way you could get the google adsense going for you. Have you thought about connecting your hubs to somebody close's google account. I do understand your anguish when so many people are getting killed and displaced now. But in general don't you think that Israel has a right to coexist as well as Palestine especially after the horrible treatment they have received during the holocaust. Well the Israeli PM has personally apologized to the UN Secretary General and it should mean for something if he says it was a honest mistake. Well about Lebanon I am not aware of that and hence I will not comment on that. Btw Thanks for the invitation to write a hub but I would have to refuse the offer since I feel I am not qualified enough to write about this issue due to the obvious lack of knowledge about this issue.
"but I am not sure whether to believe that or not."
As a general rule believe nothing the media says. In every instance as a pattern over many years, Israel or the US - in Palestine or Iraq or Afghanistan has denied n each and every case the accidental or intentional killing of civilians, until forced to an admission by independent sources.
Countrywomen the zionists had as much to do with the holocaust as anyone. You should read what the True Torah Jews have to say about The Brutal Zionist Role in the Holocaust. There are Sephardic and Ashkenazi Jews. Sephardic Jews are descended from the Jews in the Bible, Ashkenazi Jews are not (wantabees). Most zionists are Ashkenazi Jews. In the 1960s, the number of Sephardim was estimated at 500000, Ashkenazim, at the same period, numbered about eleven million. Most Jews in Israel are Ashkenazi zionists.
The Jews of the Bible are descended from Shem the son of Noe (Noah) of the flood. The Ashkenazi are descended from Noah's son Japheth.
From Genesis 10
That's one of the reasons why Arthur Koestler in his online book The Thirteenth Tribe believes that Gog and Magog are already in the Holy Land.
From the Book of Revelations (Apocalypse) 20 we read what will happen in the end times.
Genesis is the first book in the Bible, Apocalypse (or Revelations) is the last.
That is scary if it is completely true especially statements like "One Cow in Palestine is worth more than all the Jews in Poland" by Izaak Greenbaum. I have always had a soft corner for persecuted people but your information is questioning even my basic views about Jews. Btw do you have any soft corner for Jews in general?
Scary for sure, the most vile. That's who we are dealing with. And that's who the US tax payer is bankrolling against their will to the tune of over a trillion dollars.
A friend from Tennessee sent me this in an e-mail today with this other link again proving the zionists are using white phosphorus against Palestinian civilians.
Yes I certainly do have a soft corner in my heart for the Jews that parished in the holocaust as well as for the Jews against zionism. Their story is being blocked by the US media.
I'll help them get their story out. Rabbi Weiss calls zionism a con job. He says the zionists are the cause of an endless river of bloodshed for over 100 years. God bless him.
It seems to be similar to moderate muslims voice being ignored by the media. I went to that site and found it very interesting. I also checked we get the Canadian channels and hopefully I may have a more honest view of the ground reality.
Btw do you have lots of friends who are Jews and who speak out against "Zionism". I never knew earlier that all Jews don't support Zionism. I guess now the new President takes over in US and we may see a shift in the foreign policy in the next few weeks.
Glad you get the Canadian channels countrywomen. No I don't have any Jewish friends that speak out against zionism, I've just known for a while that there are lots of them. Some of their web sites say that they are the majority in the Jewish world too, that don't support Israel that is. I wouldn't doubt they are the majority. It's a shame their story is being muzzled. It would be nice to see a shift in the US foreign policy but some how I doubt it. There are a pile of US politicians that get money from the Israel lobby. I seen a list of them about a week ago, both Republicans and Democrats. If I can find the list again I'll post it.
I have heard of lobbying before. But is it ethical for the politicians to accept money to influence critical economic and foreign policy decisions from foreign countries when sometimes it may even be to the detriment of one's own country. Btw I am looking forward to that list. Thanks for all your patient replies
Well countrywomen I have been looking for that list all afternoon with no luck. I will probably come across it when I'm not looking for it. I certainly wouldn't call it ethical for the politicians to accept money from the Israeli lobby. They don't seem to realize how detrimental it is to their own country, let alone the world.
Here's the London Review of Books on John Mearsheimer and Stephen Walt report about the Israeli lobby. I haven't read it yet.
Here's a good video on the Israel Lobby
This web site called Silence in betrayal has a speech by Martin Luther King on War, Jimmy Carter on the zionist apartheid (as he calls it) and a speech by Obama to AIPAC (the Israel lobby). Jimmy Carter says this on the Palestinian/Israeli conflict "One of the worst examples of human rights abuses I know". This is what the site says,
It looks like the True Torah Jews change the quotes by Rabbis on the front page of their web site periodically. Today it shows this quote by Rabbi Yissachar Dov Rokeach of Belz.
That is what the US politicians and christian zionists are supporting "that the Satan should succeed". Rabbi Yissachar Dov Rokeach's quote can be seen here once the True Torah Jews change the quote on their front page to a different Rabbi.
If I eventually find the list I will post it countrywomen.
Man if you read this report you will definitely have to be thinking the United States of Israel.
And if you haven't read the report? As you haven't? I suppose you can draw exactly the sort of conclusion you'd like to believe without even reading it!
Not disputing nor agreeing to the effect of the Israeli lobby in the US, but there are other countries that have apparently given into the Palestinian lobby: Iran comes to mind. Should Iran change its name to the Islamic Republic of Palestine?
Most of the Muslim world seems to be overly sympathetic to the Palestinian view of things. It can't just be the common religion, because they seem oddly unsympathetic to fellow Muslim Africans dying by the hundreds of thousands in Darfur. There is no ethnic/linguistic bond, at least among Iranians, Turks, Indonesians, etc. So then what is it?
Many of the Arabs I have spoken to are getting just as pissed off at their governments using the "threat of the Israeli" to provoke their own population and as an excuse to spend money "protecting" themselves from the threat.
The Arab world is as divided, hypocritical and top-heavy as the western world.
I haven't read those books either, but I am pretty sure lobbing rockets over the fence and killing civilians caught in the middle is never going to fix the problem.
The Israeli and Arabian governments have a vested interest in maintaining the conflict, and will continue to do so as long as we are stupid enough to listen.
My own government likes nothing better than a little tension in the middle east to distract from our own issues. As does America Inc.
All the time there is someone daft enough to lob a missile into Israel, and people daft enough to "defend their right to exist," by killing schoolchildren the other side of the fence this will go on and on.
I wish they would both wake up and read what their stupid religious books said. Just listen back at ruevera proudly talking about "god on their side," and I am sure it is the same the other side. Sheesh.......
Latest I could find up to 2004. But it gives the idea:
http://www.wrmea.com/archives/July_Aug_ … 07027.html
Thanks knolyourself. That's not the same list that I was looking for but it gives a clear picture. You could almost call this treason, don't you think? I have read that Israel gets more support from the US than what some US states get.
"The $3 billion per year, accounts for about a fifth of America’s foreign aid budget. This is despite Israel being a wealthy industrial country with a per capita income about the same as South Korea or Spain."
Unbelievable. Using the right search terms I just found the Top 2008 & Career Recipients of Pro-Israel PAC Funds
David Duke? I suppose he's one of those "truth-speakers" you champion?
It was on the top of the list moron. Pick what ever web site you want from this Google search for Top 2008 & Career Recipients of Pro-Israel PAC Funds They all say the same.
Actually this one has the 2008 recipients of Pro-Israel PAC funds as well a list of the 2008 Pro-Israel PAC Contributions
http://www.washington-report.org/archiv … 05050.html
First, don't call me a moron. Check the forum rules if you're confused about what's considered acceptable behavior here.
Second, *you* chose to link to a David Duke site. The man is former KKK leader and is obviously still a sympathizer. The fact that his site shows up first in a Google search for proof to support your position is immaterial. Either defend the man or admit an error; don't shoot the messenger.
I don't have to defend him at all and I won't. Like I said his site was on the top of the list. So I posted the Google search and the other link just for your benefit, although they say the same. "don't shoot the messenger"? I could say the same of you. And I have read the John Mearsheimer and Stephen Walt report yesterday before posting this "Man if you read this report you will definitely have to be thinking the United States of Israel". Any sane person would.
No I'm not a "proxy", like many I just didn't like the slaughter that was going on in Gaza. You'd understand what I meant by United States of Israel if you had have read the report.
You missed my point.
At any rate, no one here likes the slaughter that has been going on in Gaza. Some of us happen to like the larger slaughter in other places (like Darfur, for instance) even less.
If you want to talk about Darfur then start a new thread about Darfur. This thread happens to be titled Israel. No you missed my point and the point of the John Mearsheimer and Stephen Walt report, so I'll spell it out for you. US politicians are putting US citizens and the whole world in dyer jeopardy by continually following what the Israel lobby tells them to do and by continually supporting the zionist state. Here's the first few paragraphs from the John Mearsheimer and Stephen Walt report on the Israeli lobby to get you started.
Like I say, the whole report is worth reading.
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Flotilla and now this. Seems like they have been given a licence to kill just anyone.
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