It's completely broken.

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   JaxsonRaineposted 11 years ago

   The socio-political environment has completely broken down, gone into extreme meltdown mode, and suffered a psychotic break.
   
   We have degenerated from discussing things like the economy, healthcare, Bain's record, and Romney's gubernatorial record, into most threads being about big bird, binders, birds(the hand kind), and other pathetically off-topic 'issues'.
   
   I'm sorry, but this is coming more from the left than the right. Reporters are claiming that Benghazi and Fast and Furious are non-issues, then they turn right around to talk about a comment made on the radio by Mitt's son, or 'How many women CAN you fit in a binder?'.
   
   I'll tell you this: I'll be watching MSNBC on election night. If Romney pulls it off, I'm fairly certain there is going to be at least one aneurysm.

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      Shadesbreathposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      This happens because the American people do not demand real conversations. It takes too long, there are too many issues (most of what people call "issues" really only bait to divert from the real problems), and besdies, forming an opinion of substance requires lots of reading. Reading gets in the way of time needed to keep up with Honey Boo Boo, America's Got Talent, and the next episode of Bridezillas.
      
      It's been that way for awhile, but the explosion of the net, compounded what TV had already set in motion, and social media was the death blow of thought and literacy. We have a whole new world where emptiness, stupidity and lies stuff the airways in every possible way in the guise of "information" (for wasn't that what the Internet was supposed to open up for everyone?). Not only is "information" lost to most people who have neither the inclination nor the skill set to find it, but with the mutilation and abandonment of truth comes the loss of the important next steps that are supposed to be born upon bed of information: knowledge, and through that, eventually, wisdom.
      
      First you had the Stone Age, then the Bronze Age, the Renaissance, the Space Age, the Information Age, and now the Age of Corruption (in all possible definitions of that word).
      
      I agree that it's completely broken and observing modern politics, both as practiced by those in government and by "citizens" "participating" makes me ill.

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         Mighty Momposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         Agree and well stated.
         There are those who have researched and cultivated opinions/positions on the issues.It's a losing (lost?) cause to try to bring that research here, however.
         Jaxson's tried it with taxes.
         I've tried it with healthcare.
         Others have tried it, too.
         
         In the end, you can't argue like a PhD with a kindergartner.
         The conversation has to be had at the lowest common denominator.
         So if you choose to play, you accept that fact.
         It's a game of speed, not skill.
         Gotta be quick on the draw with the meme du jour.
         That, in and of itself, is a challenge!
         
         BTW, I have never watched Honey Boo Boo but I heard she endorsed Obama.
         

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            Repairguy47posted 11 years agoin reply to this

            
            
            Binders

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      Josakposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      I think what has happened is we all discussed the important things too much and everyone is burned out, all the arguments have been made and counter arguments too so now people are just discussing nothing at all.
      
      I would prefer watching FOX if Obama wins, the difference is MSNBC has a tiny viewership compared to FOX. Actually that in itself says something interesting.
      
      As for fast and furious didn't an independent commission already find Holder and by extension Obama free of all guilt?
      
      Let me guess it was biased right?

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         American Viewposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         Yes they did, but as they said, their decision was based on the same evidence presented to congress. If congress can get the rest of the records, the instigators might change that decision.  But I think if Obama loses and Holder will be replaced, we will never know the answer because the issue will then go away

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      tammybarnetteposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Well, I got very lucky today then if this is the case, I was on a fellow hubbers piece and had a very grown up discussion with davesworld...at first glance you would think we were polar opposites and then, drumroll, we found common ground:)

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         Mighty Momposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         That's good to hear, Jaxson.
         I've only posted one political hub in 2012. It was about the ridiculous number of requests for money the Obama campaign sends out daily. Indundation! In fact, Jon Stewart made mention of the same concern when Obama was on his show (yesterday?).
         I got maybe a handful of Dems with basically "atta girl" comments. Ho hum.
         But I got one hubber who posted daily at least 10 links to Fox News articles which of course had NOTHING to do with my topic.
         In the end, I stopped allowing his comments.
         There was no dialogue, no discussion. Just a "talking over" me with no real point.
         *sigh*
         
         So I am glad you and davesworld had that exchange.

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            Repairguy47posted 11 years agoin reply to this

            John Stewart is your news source?

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               Mighty Momposted 11 years agoin reply to this

               No. I'm his.

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            tammybarnetteposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            MM, Thank you There are some people I had to just give up on because their entire points are commercials,lol, but I was very happy to find some common ground with davesworld....Also Ken Burgess and I had a good debate about a week ago, we stayed on point, and gave full respect...we never agreed, but respectfully disagreed:)

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      Josakposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      I also see more than a touch of hypocrisy here considering yesterday you were talking about the "less than optimal" comment like it was politically important.

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         tammybarnetteposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         ? Josak, I guess your talking to Jax...

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            Josakposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Yup that's why I posted it as a reply to his comment... At least that's how it's showing up on my computer. Sorry for any confusion.

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         JaxsonRaineposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         Point
         |
         |
         |
         You
         
         

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   JaxsonRaineposted 11 years ago

   I agree.
   
   Did you see the interview with the college student that asked the question about jobs at the debate? He said something about how he doesn't care if manufacturing jobs are brought back to the US, that he and other college students wouldn't be interested in jobs like that.
   
   IIRC, he was a exercise science major, so I'm not really sure what kind of job he thinks our country needs.

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   JaxsonRaineposted 11 years ago

   Yeah, it says that nobody likes MSNBC.

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      Josakposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Which in turn says something pretty good about the left compared to the right...

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         Mighty Momposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         There is a limited audience for left-leaning news analysis.
         "Thinking" political shows like The West WIng (which MSNBC's Lawrence O'Donnell was a writer for) and The Network will never draw audiences away from reality TV.
         I used to love Air America -- Al Franken was on there.
         It's long gone. But at least Frankne's now a Senator!

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            JSChamsposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Speaking of which what happened to Air America?

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         JaxsonRaineposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         No, it says something bad about MSNBC.
         
         You are assuming that MSNBC is the same to liberalism as Fox is to conservatism...
         
         Sorry, but it's not.

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            Josakposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            How is it not?

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               Mighty Momposted 11 years agoin reply to this

               You beat me to the post, Josak.
               I tend to agree with Jaxson that MSNBC is NOT the liberal equivalent of Fox.
               But now that you've asked, I will be interested to see his response!

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               Repairguy47posted 11 years agoin reply to this

               You have obviously never watched FOX news.

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                  Mighty Momposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  Why do you assume Josak has never watched Fox News?
                  Have you ever watched MSNBC?
                  I've watched both.
                  Besides the slant of their politics, they are very different stations.
                  But I'm waiting to hear Jaxson' thoughts on this.
                  Jaxson? Oh JAX-son.....!!!

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                     Repairguy47posted 11 years agoin reply to this

                     There is an actual difference between news commentators and news journalists, not exactly so at MSNBC. They will take a story and spin it much like you take a simple scratching of the nose and turn it into Ann Romney flips off Obama.

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            Mighty Momposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            That's an astute comment and I agree with you.
            However, I'm not sure our reasoning in seeing MSNBC as not being the liberal counterpoint to Fox is the same.
            

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   JaxsonRaineposted 11 years ago

   I don't watch either network very often(maybe 30 minutes each the last 6 months)...
   
   but from what I've seen...
   
   <R--------------------Center-------------------L>
   -------------Fox----------------CNN-------------MSNBC

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      Josakposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      *snort* CNN is barely biased it's certainly not anywhere near as far to the left as FOX is to the right I have barely watched MSNBC but one of the maybe three times I did they actually criticized Obama for something! (quite recently)  suffice to say that in Australia when I was there people were actually getting cable so they could watch FOX and laugh at how conservative it was, watching FOX ironically was apparently done for fun.

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         Repairguy47posted 11 years agoin reply to this

         REDUX
         
         There is an actual difference between news commentators and news journalists, not exactly so at MSNBC.

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            Mighty Momposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            There is a definite difference between news journalists and news commentators.
            MSNBC are commentators and they make no claim to be anything else. That's understood.
            FOX are also commentators. Although they pretend to be journalists. As Josak said, if you watch FOX for fun, knowing what its agenda really is, it's highly entertaining.
            If you watch FOX believing it's "real" news, you're in trouble.
            There have been studies where people with NO news source are actually better informed than FOX news viewers.

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               Repairguy47posted 11 years agoin reply to this

               http://www.mediaite.com/tv/msnbcs-year-of-apologies/

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                  Mighty Momposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  None of which add up to the apology Fox had to make for showing a suicide live on the air.

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               JSChamsposted 11 years agoin reply to this

               So if the folks at MSNBC are merely commentators also why should we pay them any more mind than we would Fox?

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   Cody Hodge5posted 11 years ago

   You really do need to watch both if you want a real sense of what America is thinking and feeling.
   
   I know everyone is going to rip on me for this...but I think Rachel Maddow is good at her job.
   
   If you get a chance, watch Michio Kaku do an interview on Fox News.

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      habeeposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Actually, I enjoy watching Rachel, too. I agree with you about Sharpton, also. My main news source from TV is CNN, but I watch FOX and MSNBC to get opposing views.
      
      I just saw the latest viewership numbers for cable news, and FOX is way ahead, as usual. CNN is lagging behind MSNBC. I think this shows just how divided we are as a nation because IMO, CNN is clearly the fairest, overall. Evidently, that's not what people want. They prefer listening to cheerleaders for their side.

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   Cody Hodge5posted 11 years ago

   A couple other points...
   
   Fox News is at least as far to the right as MSNBC is to the left. If anything, MSNBC became a left-leaning channel to counterbalance Fox News.
   
   I can't stand Al Sharpton. His voice is just frustrating to listen to.

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