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The Calm Before the Storm

  1. tammybarnette profile image59
    tammybarnetteposted 4 years ago

    It is very quite tonight here at the hub, tomorrow is a historic day for us all. My question to you tonight...What does Freedom mean to you?

    1. habee profile image91
      habeeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      What's happening tomorrow? lol. Sorry, but I don't think we'll see any big changes either way. Life will go on as usual, pretty much. I'm pi$$ed about the amount of money spent on the election. I thought it was around $2 billion, but CNN said with indirect spending included, it was more like $6 billion. What will we have to show for all that money? Gridlock - no matter who wins. It doesn't look like Obama will get a mandate if he wins, unless the polls are in grave error. I can think of a lot better uses for the dough.

      1. FIS profile image79
        FISposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        The funny thing about that.. is.. how much of that money went specifically to try and avoid higher taxes... I would love someone to someday do the research on whether or not that money comes to the same amount the higher taxes would come to.. and if not.. how much less...

      2. kathleenkat profile image90
        kathleenkatposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Agreed.

        I have always thought politicians shouldn't be paid. Like, why? Why would we need to donate all this money to them? The money doesn't change their policies and plans, or who they are and what they believe. It shouldn't change their likeability. The money just makes them famous; what a popularity contest! I would like to see a candidate winning simply on their policies and plans, not how much money or media exposure they got. The guy with more money gets more exposure and gets more famous and gets more votes. That's how it works!

    2. FIS profile image79
      FISposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      I know this is a serious question that deserves an answer.. but..  like everything else in my head.. it probably needs a hub of it's own to fully express.... on the simplest level it's.. "the ability to do whatever I want whenever I want." This of course can fall into conflict with community and freedom vs community always needs to be weighed.... lest we end up like the line from the song "Freedom's just another word for nothing left to loose."

      1. tammybarnette profile image59
        tammybarnetteposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Bob, good point smile I thought about writing this as a hub and then decided, to me' it would be much more interesting to see as many views as possible and hope to find a common thread....The freedoms vs community point you made, makes it neccessary to state that too much freedon exists in the life of one, when it begins to infringe upon the freedoms of another...I think this important point you made here, shows the root reason for all of the strife today...To have equal freedoms should be the goal smile

    3. HowardBThiname profile image90
      HowardBThinameposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      To me - freedom means the ability to make my own choices, set my own goals, and profit or fail from my chosen actions.

      That's why I'm voting for Romney. At the deepest level of my psyche, I want to control my own life to the greatest extent possible. That's freedom to me.

      1. innersmiff profile image80
        innersmiffposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        How much freedom, exactly, does the patriot act and NDAA give you? Mitt Romney supports those.

        1. HowardBThiname profile image90
          HowardBThinameposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          I don't like that Romney supports those, but it's the lesser of two evils. Freedom also directly relates to business regulation, taxation and market controls.

          1. Josak profile image60
            Josakposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            I will never understand how wanting to force women to give birth if they get pregnant and make laws dictating who you can marry is a lesser imposition than small increases in market regulations and tax.

            1. tammybarnette profile image59
              tammybarnetteposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              I agree, to me my freedom of personal choices, who to marry, how to worship, my private OB/GYN visits, these things are clearly nobody's busisness but mine...However regulations and taxes are for the benefit of the country as a whole...my choices to marry or worship etc only affects me...This has always confused me...

            2. Getridame profile image59
              Getridameposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              What about the freedom of the unborn human?

              1. tammybarnette profile image59
                tammybarnetteposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                I understand your point, I disagree that a fetus has yet to become a human being...a fetus can not survive outside of the mother's body, unless we have learned to grow people in labs and if we have I am not privy to that information...I am also always curios as to what the father of said fetus will be "forced," to do if abortions become illegal...Also, will men be able to be arrested if they do not control their sperm, being that it is the "secret ingredient,"...what consequences will the father's have to pay...I never hear this side of the discussion, do you?

                1. JayeWisdom profile image94
                  JayeWisdomposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  I like it that you added that part about the father, Tammy.....If men were the gender to give birth, we wouldn't even be having these discussions.  Or...perhaps women would rule business, politics, even the world while men would "stay in the kitchen, barefoot and pregnant" (to quote that ridiculous saying of insensitive males).

                2. JayeWisdom profile image94
                  JayeWisdomposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  I replied to this earlier, but (for some strange reason) my post disappeared. I enjoyed what you wrote about the father's role in pregnancy.  I can't help but believe that if men were the gender to give birth, their attitudes about pregnancy would be vastly different!

              2. Josak profile image60
                Josakposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                As I see it a zygote is not yet an independent or even thinking being as such it does not share the same rights (obviously I oppose late term abortions) I don't actually believe that abortion outside of rape/medical issues is moral BUT the imposition on the freedom of another person incurred by forcing them to give birth is more immoral.

                1. tammybarnette profile image59
                  tammybarnetteposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Well said Josak..and unconstitutional as well...I also do not personally agree with abortion, and I believe the time frame should maybe even be shortened to the first 6 weeks or so, but the government is not suppose to play the role of moral guardian, this is the place of the Church, and Seperation of Church and State, as per our constitution, should be upheld.

          2. innersmiff profile image80
            innersmiffposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            I personally don't like associating with evils in my every day live, so I don't see why I should vote for an evil to rule over me because he's slightly not-as-evil as the other evil.

    4. Josak profile image60
      Josakposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Being able to make personal choices without government interference ie. who I marry and whether I want a child etc.

      Apparently the republican understanding of freedom is pay less taxes because they oppose any right to a choice they disagree with.

      1. innersmiff profile image80
        innersmiffposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Do you not think choices you make in the market are personal choices too?

        1. Josak profile image60
          Josakposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Not in the same way, I don't feel that taxes or slightly higher taxes affect my freedom, I don't feel that workplace safety regulation does either. On second thought no, I have never felt that my freedom was being unfairly affected by market regulation.

          1. tammybarnette profile image59
            tammybarnetteposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            I fnd this interesting, you and I agree on many things, as I have seen your comments in forums, Howard's above comment is a representation of the conservative ideology...if we strip away the term "personal" from our meanings, or if Howard added the word "personal" before business and choices, we would all basically share the same ideas of freedom....

            It is interesting that an entire nation is divided by one word....I believe freedom is the right to make our decisions about everything, the freedom to fail and succeed at every level; which hinges on the freedom to learn and live and love...I believe all freedoms are in direct coorelation to responsibilty. I have raised a lot of children, and their freedoms were always contingent upon their responsibilities..as citizens, I believe paying taxes is a simple and basic responsibility, I mean you get what you pay for in this world...so paying more for American made products, or paying a little higher tax for the best roadways and bridges, etc., these seem to me to be basic responsibilities of being a citizen in the United States of America.To me Freedom + Choices...the more choices we have as citizens, the more free we are as people smile

            1. tammybarnette profile image59
              tammybarnetteposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              I meant freedom = choices..LOL

          2. innersmiff profile image80
            innersmiffposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            It's interesting that you say "unfairly affected" - are you suggesting that there is a 'fair' way to affect freedom? If so, in what circumstances?

            1. Josak profile image60
              Josakposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Yes I think that there are fair limitations of freedom and limitations that really should exist, for example laws against violence, rape etc. limit what choices people can make but that is a positive given the situation.

              1. innersmiff profile image80
                innersmiffposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                This is the libertarian view too - non-aggressive personal freedom, and this includes one's personal choices in the market as well. Why do you make a distinction?

      2. Gnarles Snarkly profile image61
        Gnarles Snarklyposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        China is even worse. Thank God you are here. Or, are you?

        I was wondering, can I marry my dog if I want to?

        1. tammybarnette profile image59
          tammybarnetteposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Snarkly, I wouldn't care if you married your big toe, as long as you were a law abiding productive citizen of the US who pays there taxes...but thats's just me smile

          1. Getridame profile image59
            Getridameposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Snarkly is deceased. A moment of silence, please.

        2. Josak profile image60
          Josakposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          I did say "who I marry" not what the issue with a dog is a marriage is a contract between two parties and the dog can't consent so marriage isn't really a possibility.

          Yes I am in the US.

          1. Getridame profile image59
            Getridameposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Lucky you. My dog wagged his tail when I proposed. Now the cat's jealous.

  2. innersmiff profile image80
    innersmiffposted 4 years ago

    Freedom can mean a great number of things, this is why I prefer to use the term 'liberty', which is your self, your actions and your property having freedom from aggressive violence. That's much more specific and the only form of freedom one can consistently apply across a society.

    Neither of these candidates respect liberty in the slightest.

  3. rebekahELLE profile image90
    rebekahELLEposted 4 years ago

    Freedom doesn't enslave.   

    Election Day is here, finally!  smile  Enjoy it, however you vote.

    1. tammybarnette profile image59
      tammybarnetteposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      rebekahELLE, Beautifully said smile

  4. kilo2993 profile image61
    kilo2993posted 4 years ago

    We just see it differently that's all...A choice to you is a life to another. I could never imagine being in that person's position having to make that decision. Your choice, decision or outcome is between you and your God, that's all. We have all seen the failure of politics when personal medical decisions must be made...and when those moments come I wouldn't be consulting my congressman or President.

    1. tammybarnette profile image59
      tammybarnetteposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      I was wondering, do you support capital punishment?

      1. kilo2993 profile image61
        kilo2993posted 4 years ago in reply to this

        I'll give you a kinda twisted answer...As a medical provider we are bound by the Hippocratic Oath, not legally per se, and a physician is a physician 24/7/365. So it is written to  "practice medicine ethically and honestly".

        I just feel that there are certain topics or areas that have no right to be politicize. I don't need to declare where I stand, and hate it all you want, but we all want to know is it a "Yes" or a "No" and quite simply neither can be the right answer. Somethings we face are bigger than all of us and don't suffer zealots and fools that tell you otherwise.
        Every 4 years or so I raise my right arm and swear to: Protect and Defend the......
        Abortion, capital punishment, etc is the law of the land (where it applies) and I will protect those laws with my life. When serving in Afghanistan we treated everyone...Taliban and their friends included. All human life is sacred and man is a awful judge of who shall live and who shall die.
        I have yet to met a woman, who chose to have an abortion, tell me they were 100% without doubt comfortable with their decision...How could they be. I believe that nearly every person abhors the idea of abortion, but will fight for your right to have that choice; and with revenge and hate put aside...No one can honestly believe that killing as punishment is right.

        There are but a few things in this world where failure is not option...ever.
        Capital punishment and abortion are two of them, and you don't get a second try. There are those rare moments in life when faced with decision, we stutter and pause...knowing that the outcome will be unbearable. But we still must act...I refuse to pass judgement and condemn those who must say "yes or no" in those moments. I have to remind myself that His will, not mine will be done...and it really sucks sometimes.
        Does that make sense?
        Sorry this is so long, but after all that, my answer is NO!

        But, that's just me and I can't be the citizen of the world...I pick my battles with caution, not out of fear, but out of respect for the consequences of my actions.    Take care.

        1. tammybarnette profile image59
          tammybarnetteposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Bravo, so very well said smile

  5. paradigmsearch profile image90
    paradigmsearchposted 4 years ago

    We are all doomed! Doomed I say!

    Actually, next week at this time, it will be all about Thanksgiving.

    As for freedom, the turkeys are signing petitions as we speak. But it will be to no avail...

    1. Hollie Thomas profile image60
      Hollie Thomasposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Not in my house, I support the turkey's right not to be eaten. big_smile

      1. paradigmsearch profile image90
        paradigmsearchposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        In quick reference to another matter, I am taking your advice and am composing a masterpiece for them.

        1. Hollie Thomas profile image60
          Hollie Thomasposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Do it. Today has been yet another productive day. Yesterday, some more dollars were posted through my letterbox. Seriously.

    2. tammybarnette profile image59
      tammybarnetteposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      lol Excellent...I wonder what vultures taste like...that would seem so much more appropriate...

      1. paradigmsearch profile image90
        paradigmsearchposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Should be a fun day today. big_smile

  6. Mighty Mom profile image91
    Mighty Momposted 4 years ago

    Freedom to me is recognizing that I am a citizen of this world.
    No man (or woman) is an island.
    We all have a responsibility to each other.
    Depriving anyone else of their freedom does not increase mine.
    It decreases my humanity.

    1. tammybarnette profile image59
      tammybarnetteposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      MM, well said, very profound smile

  7. junko profile image79
    junkoposted 4 years ago

    Well said Mighty Mom.

  8. Mighty Mom profile image91
    Mighty Momposted 4 years ago

    I say this after too many years of living like queen baby and not even realizing how friggin' selfish that was.
    I got my big girl panties on -- finally!
    Responsibility rules!

    http://static.someecards.com/someecards/usercards/1345762549365_5718594.png

    1. tammybarnette profile image59
      tammybarnetteposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Love it! One of my all time favorite sayings, I have raised 3 girls and have a 4 yr old who has already heard me say this,lol smile

      1. Mighty Mom profile image91
        Mighty Momposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        I so believe that, Tammy!

        Best poster I've seen today*
        http://s1.hubimg.com/u/7341228_f248.jpg






        *Thusfar. If/when GreekOne shares his victory pic, that will trump (NOT Donald!) all, I've no doubt!

        1. tammybarnette profile image59
          tammybarnetteposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Love it! Wish I had a biilboard of it to set up at my "red state" of TN polls...I wish the WOMEN who actually are voting Romney because of the "economy," would have seen the same research we did...well we sure tried, and sometime, probably after midnight, we will finally know...

          1. Getridame profile image59
            Getridameposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            I say we vote in Michelle Obama for two more terms after this one coming up for President Barack.

            1. tammybarnette profile image59
              tammybarnetteposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              I would, I doubt she will run, but you never know....

            2. Hollie Thomas profile image60
              Hollie Thomasposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              We loved, and love MO in Britain, as much as BO if not more. When she was last here she gave a really inspirational speech to young women from poorer backgrounds about aspiring to go to Oxbridge universities. This came at a time when our current leader (I use that term loosely) talked about how multiculturalism had failed.

              If Barrack and Michelle were up for election here, they'd probably win by a landslide.

              1. innersmiff profile image80
                innersmiffposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                . . .  God forbid.

                I think it's amazing how you can be so right about crony-capitalism and the global baking cartels and then put your blinders on when anybody left of centre starts speaking. sad

                Repeat after me: Barack and Michelle Obama are not my friends - they are puppets of the NWO - they are in the pay of big business - they are war-mongering tyrants . . .

                1. Hollie Thomas profile image60
                  Hollie Thomasposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Really? If they were truly in pay of big business, why have big business gone out of their way to discredit them, vilify them.  Why has Rupert Murdoch seen fit to slam Obama? Actions speak so much louder than words. I don't like the war scenarios, Innersmiff, truly I don't. But I'd rather see sanctions then bombs.

                  1. innersmiff profile image80
                    innersmiffposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Rupert Murdoch and the Koch brothers do not represent the entirety of big business - Goldman Sachs and JP Morgan are huge contributors (their endorsement is absolutely necessary to get anywhere in politics), the Rockerfeller foundation, Microsoft and let's not forget Soros, all ultimately controlled by the same powers that control the mainstream conservative right. It's an act of playing forces against each other to present the illusion of freedom of choice. Rigorous analysis of both the left and the right's policies reveals only superficial differences.

                    Hey, with Obama, you get two for the price of one: sanctions and bombs. Obama hasn't stopped bombing countries since he took office. And let's not forget he has been facilitating torture and detainment without trial in his expansion of Guantanamo bay, invading countries without congressional approval (Libya) and undermining foreign governments by financing and arming terrorist cells.

                    But then again, Michelle is a nice lady, so maybe none of that matters smile

    2. Hollie Thomas profile image60
      Hollie Thomasposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Like.

  9. safiq ali patel profile image70
    safiq ali patelposted 4 years ago

    Freedom to me means the opposite of chains. Freedom from slavery. Freedom from deceit. Freedom from famine, Freedom from futility. Freedom from captivity. Free. The freedom to live a peaceful meaningful, safe and rewarding life day to day. That's freedom. The freedom to chose a burger if I want and not be trapped into eating grain or worse. Freedom is my most important right. Without freedom I am a slave. A captive, a prisoner. Let freedom ring.

  10. kathleenkat profile image90
    kathleenkatposted 4 years ago

    To answer your question...Freedom:

    We can never fully be free, unless we live as hermits. With a society full of individuals, there needs to be regulations put forth to enforce and protect the freedom of others, and at the same time, making us less-free.

    The question is how large we need these regulations to be. I think we Americans have the capability of managing our own lives, without interfering in others; we just need to be given the chance to succeed ourselves. The more rules, regulations, and mandates there are, the less free we truly are. My vote went to a candidate in favor of small government.

    1. innersmiff profile image80
      innersmiffposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      It can only be Virgil Goode or Gary Johnson then!

  11. kathleenkat profile image90
    kathleenkatposted 4 years ago

    I'll just leave this here; $6 billion dollars spent on campaigning, and NOTHING changed. Same president, same parties in the senate and congress.

    Way to go America! I can think of some better ways to spend $6 billion...can you?

    1. tammybarnette profile image59
      tammybarnetteposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Yes I can, Like pay down the deficit, this was a disgusting waste of money especially in our struggling economy...I think the lobbying and super pacs need to be made illegal, abuse of money because of greed leads to an imbalance of power and creates a deterant to democracy.

      1. kathleenkat profile image90
        kathleenkatposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        I think any leftover campaign money needs to be sent to charities or Sandy relief. Or something.

        It is sickening...They spend all this money, and a lot of it is DONATIONS. Why would Romney or Obama need MORE MONEY? We all know how much the president makes, and we all know Romney is pretty well off too. It's too bad that it takes having money to get noticed as a politician. I want campaign ads to go away, campaign cold-calling to go away, and for networks to sponsor the debates for FREE, and to just send out the voter's pamphlet. We don't need to spend all this extra money to try and sway voters, and make the "other guy" look bad. Jeeze. You can do that for free on Facebook (and they have).

        I find it incredibly ironic, though, that nothing whatsoever changed.

        1. tammybarnette profile image59
          tammybarnetteposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          I agree, Sandy would be the place to have all the left over funds to used effictively...hopefully the resolve of Americans will change, and there was a clear message sent, that we the people are sick of the gridlock, so maybe they will try harder to work on bipartisan terms, the congress should be more willing as well as the GOP, since they will be looking forward to 2016

          1. kathleenkat profile image90
            kathleenkatposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Yeah. I find it pretty sad that 50% of the country voted for Obama, and 50% did not (48% Romney, 2% other). I'm talking popular votes here; pretty sad that only 50% of the voting population is represented in the choice of president.

            Something needs to change. 50% shows a great divide. And that's just of the people who actually DID vote; in my county, only 46% (!!!) of registered voters, voted. And that's just the people who are registered to vote, of what percentage that is of people eligible to become voters, I cannot say. So, 50% of registered voters, voted, of lets say 80% of all people eligible to become voters...I stink at fractions and stuff, but I can tell you the results are pretty pathetic.

            1. tammybarnette profile image59
              tammybarnetteposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              It does show great division, and that is our job as citizens to make change. It is important to note that our ageing baby boomer poulation and our growth in ethnic groups as well as a very active youth are probably the bones of this great divide...Romney won among men, Obama won among women, youth, civil rights activist, and minorities...The world around us is changing, and we will need to grow or be left behind...

              1. kathleenkat profile image90
                kathleenkatposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Or at least coexist and compromise.

                1. Getridame profile image59
                  Getridameposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  We can do it (with open hearts). Don't be haters. Don't be pouters. Don't let yourself be saturated with derisive, divisive bile from agitated agitators on Fox News. Our president is on your side. Hold him up an support his efforts. The effort to keep him from a second term was more than a waste. Try something new.

                  1. tammybarnette profile image59
                    tammybarnetteposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Yes we can big_smile

          2. Getridame profile image59
            Getridameposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            The election was just more gridlock . . . no clear message at all.

 
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