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The Legacy of the ACA

  1. Barefootfae profile image60
    Barefootfaeposted 4 years ago

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article … ation.html

    This is just an example of what will likely be a widespread phenomenon.
    Economics 101.

    1. Repairguy47 profile image61
      Repairguy47posted 4 years ago in reply to this

      It has to be paid for somehow, liberals never seem to understand that there is no such thing as free stuff.

      1. Barefootfae profile image60
        Barefootfaeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        No they don't understand the economics at all.
        By their point of view the owner is supposed to just suck that loss up.

    2. 0
      DMartelonlineposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      I would like to point something out here that oftentimes gets overlooked. Everyone screams and yells about these franchise owners being slammed by AHA but the fact of the matter is that if they have a franchise in MA they are paying for healthcare if they have more than 11 (yes, you read that right 11) employees.  Here's how it is explained "According to the Christian Science Monitor "Under the 2006 law, Massachusetts businesses with more than 11 employees or their equivalent must offer a “fair and reasonable contribution” toward coverage or pay the state a “Fair Share Assessment” of $295 per full-time employee. The law also requires businesses to help employees pay for premiums using pretax dollars.""  http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Justice/20 … ax-on-jobs

    3. 0
      Justsilvieposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Am I reading this wrong and have times changed?

      Business Expense Tax Deductions
      http://www.kiplinger.com/features/archi … pedia.html

      Just a few that caught my eye

      Wages. Wages paid to employees are a deductible business expense.

      Employee benefit programs. Businesses can deduct the cost of fringe benefits provided to employees, such as health insurance and retirement plans.

      And the list is a very long one!

      1. tammybarnette profile image60
        tammybarnetteposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        +1 smile

        1. 0
          Justsilvieposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Boy I wish we only paid that amount!

          http://www.nerdwallet.com/markets/corpo … rates/info

      2. Wayne Brown profile image85
        Wayne Brownposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        It is not always about the payment of something but more so the available cash flow to do so.  Cash is king in the business world and it drains rather thin on a relative scale whether you have 11 employees or 11,000...that $295 multiplied that many times over each month may well be the difference between a profit or loss.  If a business cannot remain profitable, it cannot sustain and the whole point becomes moot.  Passing those costs on to the consumer may not be an option in certain generic industries such as the restaurant business which is keenly competitive.  Many companies work very hard to control travel expense (which is tax deductible @ the rate of 50%) and that too is a function of cash flow.  Money paid out does not exchange dollar for dollar in terms of taxation.  In other words, just because an employer pays out one dollar in taxable expense does not mean the employer gets a dollar back....to the contrary, more like 15 to 30 cents on the dollar at best.  Some employers already have cash flow issues which are so erratice that they have to go the the bank and secure loans to smooth out the seasonal aspect of the flow....bringing an interest load into the equation. In the business which exist today that will come under Obamacare, the additional payout for healthcare coverage for employees will come directly off the already thin margin of net profit which in most companies will be in the 5% of gross revenue range.  It is easy to talk about paying for it, doing it is not so easy and may well be the straw that breaks the back of the business if there is no choice.  ~WB

    4. Don W profile image82
      Don Wposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      1. It's called the affordable health care act, not the free healthcare act. Having more people than ever covered by health care, costs money. No one said it wouldn't. But  the potential long term return of investment (healthier people) is enormous.

      2. Most of 'Pappa' John's business is done through franchises, not the parent company. Many of those would be exempt from being penalised under the Affordable Care Act due to their size (less than 50 employees).

      3. No evidence for the "14 cents" figure has been presented by the business, and no information about how the calculation was made. Understandable given commercial sensitivities, but this means there is no way of verifying the exact figure.

      4. The customers of 'Pappa' John's pizza should be the ones who contribute to the health care of people who make and deliver 'Pappa' John's pizza. Who else should? Before it would have been taxpayers who foot the bill. Now the business (and those who buy its product) do. Makes complete sense.

      1. Tom Joad II profile image61
        Tom Joad IIposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Very well said

    5. 0
      Sooner28posted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Or the executives could pay themselves a little less, and actually provide quality health insurance for their employees, but I guess that's far too much to ask.

      In any event, not all restaurants are doing this, and there are already calls for boycotting Denny's because of this.

    6. 0
      Sophia Angeliqueposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Great, they'll go out of business because the Dems won't buy from them for doing that. That's also Business 101.

  2. psycheskinner profile image79
    psycheskinnerposted 4 years ago

    I don't even bother with Daily Mail links, their "facts" are almost always not very factual.

    1. Repairguy47 profile image61
      Repairguy47posted 4 years ago in reply to this

      I heard the owner of those Denny's on the radio and he said exactly what was reported. Get use to higher prices and less choices.

      1. Barefootfae profile image60
        Barefootfaeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        You notice the first thing is try to discredit the source. No folks....get ready. You asked for it and voted for it.

        1. Repairguy47 profile image61
          Repairguy47posted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Oh yeah, that's always the first thing they do! They do not understand that the United States is the greatest nation on earth because of what we are not! We are not socialists!

      2. psycheskinner profile image79
        psycheskinnerposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        The franchise owner of Denny's does not strike me as a sane and rational person.

        But if getting working people healthcare means I don't get curly fries and pay and extra 50c, great--sign me up. I'd rather they get to go to a doctor than I save a few quarters per transaction.

        1. Barefootfae profile image60
          Barefootfaeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          He is quite sane and rational....he is trying to run a business and the government just cut him off at the knees.

          1. psycheskinner profile image79
            psycheskinnerposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            By requiring that his workers be able to get healthcare.

            I'm okay with that.  If his business requires full time laborers get no healthcare, it is badly structured.  Plenty of other restaurant spent the last year finding a way to make it work. Healthcare coverage is at an all time high for restaurant workers even before the new rules hit.

            I think he just sucks at managing restaurants and wants to blame everyone but himself.

            1. Repairguy47 profile image61
              Repairguy47posted 4 years ago in reply to this

              He owns 40 restaraunts and he sucks at business? Yeah, brilliant!

              1. psycheskinner profile image79
                psycheskinnerposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Things change.  He needs to change with them or go out of business.

                Why are we obliged to support the millionaire owner being profitable, and not care if the workers die of preventable illness or can't get life-saving surgery? Or get hepatitis and put it on our food?

                1. Repairguy47 profile image61
                  Repairguy47posted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Health care is has and always will be available! Business does not exist to provide health care it exists to make a profit. Obamacare will ensure prices rise and fewer choices will be a available.

                  1. psycheskinner profile image79
                    psycheskinnerposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    The American system requires healthcare to be employer based.  Thus it is ration to require the employer to provide it.

                    Freelance worker insurance schemes are simply unaffordable. It costs 20 times was an empoyer-based scheme does and has lower caps.  It's apparent availability is just an illusion to allow employers to deprive their workers of basic healthcare.

                    Honestly, I agree that employers shouldn't have to foot the bill.  It should be socialized.

                    But whatever system you use, everyone has to get healthcare. I get it from my employer (cost shared).  They should get it from theirs.

                  2. Mighty Mom profile image90
                    Mighty Momposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Health care is available, you say? That is a fallacy.
                    How would you propose those minimum wage employees get health care outside of their employer?
                    The model the US has set up -- which I have been arguing for months is anti-business  and makes America less competitive-- is that employers offers group health insurance to their employees.

                    Where specifically woud you propose Denny's uninsured employees -- who BTW work in a field where their own illness could have devastating effects on the public -- get health insurance coverage?

                    These businesses have been skirting around the benefits laws for years.
                    If they don't like it -- maybe they will lobby the government to restructure ACA the way they wanted it to be all along: government paid.
                    Maybe that's the idea all along. Get the businesses who have not provided health care to feel a little pain so they'll come running back in and lobby for universal.
                    Yeah. Maybe that's it.

                    Maybe the owner of PapaJohn's won't have a million free pizzas to advertise 25X a night with celebrity spokesperson Peyton Manning. He could sure pay for a lot of health care right there....

            2. Barefootfae profile image60
              Barefootfaeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Do you think he should be required to pay that without passing the costs along? No one can do that.

              1. psycheskinner profile image79
                psycheskinnerposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                So he should just raise prices and stop whining and suggest it be taken out of tips.

                It's an even playing field.  All the other restaurants will have the same costs.

          2. tammybarnette profile image60
            tammybarnetteposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Fae, I laugh as he BLAMES Obamacare, My teens have been working in fast food places for years, I worked in a sandwich shop when I was a single mom, and this has always been the practice...keep the hours just low enogh to not have to offer insurance...Before Obabacare that would be 40 hours, so now this man is saying it is 30, I will have to look that up, but the truth of the matter is that as always, they want more profit for themselves and to pay the cheapest wage allowable in order to do so! Which in IMHO is greed!

            1. psycheskinner profile image79
              psycheskinnerposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Indeed.  he said he would cut to 30 hours (to avoid the charge) then also add 5%.

              So, not get the charge and increase profit?

              1. tammybarnette profile image60
                tammybarnetteposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Exactly, he found a loop-hole and a scape goat, in order to increase his profits, nifty lol

                1. Repairguy47 profile image61
                  Repairguy47posted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  That is why business exists, to make a profit.

                  1. The Frog Prince profile image79
                    The Frog Princeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Liberals think businesses exist to serve their needs.  No they exist to make a profit.  That seems real hard for some to understand.  Just like corporations exist to make a profit and pay dividends to their shareholders.  All these whiny babies slay me.  Work for what you want the way many of us have had to.

                2. Barefootfae profile image60
                  Barefootfaeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  He wasn't trying to increase his profits Tammy.
                  Just maintain them. Get it?

            2. Barefootfae profile image60
              Barefootfaeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              No see there is this underlying thing that he should be willing to suffer FOR Obamacare. Why?
              He is not going to be the only one doing this and of course that makes them greedy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
              No it means they are trying to maintain. Period.

              1. Repairguy47 profile image61
                Repairguy47posted 4 years ago in reply to this

                You might as well give up, nothing you say will make a difference. They know we are right they just can't stand it.

                1. Barefootfae profile image60
                  Barefootfaeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  It's just the way business has been done and has ALWAYS been done...BUT....for this ACA everything is supposed to change.
                  I am going to be very curious to see how many LIBERAL business owners actually do the same thing....who back the law....and then we can see what we can see.

                  1. Repairguy47 profile image61
                    Repairguy47posted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    How do we know this person isn't a liberal? Whether liberal or conservative a business owner will pass the cost along to the consumer or go under! Less choices are what is headed our way! You said it best ,they voted for it now they have to live with it!

                2. tammybarnette profile image60
                  tammybarnetteposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  RG, no sir, you are wrong...

                  1. Repairguy47 profile image61
                    Repairguy47posted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Whatever, hide and watch!

              2. tammybarnette profile image60
                tammybarnetteposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Fae, yes maintain there deep pockets, geesh, how many stores did this man own in the Denneys Franchise? And I believe another restaurant? Poor millionaire, I know it just breaks his heart he can't provide healthcare to his employees...give me a break, I worked for a Heavenly Ham, huge franchise, had to be a millionaire to even buy in, my boss lady filthy rich paid us grunts $6 an hour, we were allowed to work 39 hrs a week because at 40 she would have to offer insurance...Fae, why do you want to help out these poor millionaires so much, is it not more important that people have access to health coverage?

            3. 0
              SassySue1963posted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Tammy, businesses are in business to earn a profit. Period. That is their sole purpose for existing. If they do not, then they go under. They do what they have to do to increase profits because otherwise they do not exist. ObamaCare has reduced full time hours to 30. That means, you want this business to now incur the cost of insurance, an expense they did not have before. They are not going to do that, as a majority. The ones who do will pass any cost along to the consumer. That means the average American, who also can't afford it. Policies that punish businesses only succeed in punishing the workers and the consumers. That does not help the majority of Americans, which makes it bad policy.

            4. GA Anderson profile image88
              GA Andersonposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Was your food service experience ever as an owner operator?

              Did you know that, industry-wide, the average profit margin for a sandwich shop/pizzaria/Denny's, is about 3% - that's 3 cents on a dollar?. So a successful restaurant that does $2,000,000 in sales only nets around $60,000 - before income taxe

              And that restaurant owner probably works 60 - 80 hrs a week for that pre-tax sixty grand.

              Damn right, I'd want to maximize my profits too. But of course I'm a greedy bugger.

              As a small one-shop owner you all would probably feel almost like family working with them. But let them mortgage their house and risk everything they have ever worked for to open a second and third shop - and all of a sudden that nice boss of yours is well on their way to becoming a greedy profit monger.

              Geesh....

              GA

              1. wilderness profile image97
                wildernessposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                You've got to be mistaken.  It is common knowledge that every person running or owning a business is a multi-multi-millionaire that has risked nothing and makes additional millions each year off the backs of their downtrodden and mistreated employees.  They don't work at all, just sit on their yacht swilling expensive drinks and whipping the deck hands to work harder.  They pay zero taxes while receiving huge sums of money each year from the government and the evil banksters they are in cahoots with to steal from the people that work for them at wages that are usually illegal and always immoral.  Don't you know anything?

              2. Quilligrapher profile image90
                Quilligrapherposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Hi GA.  I’m glad to run across you once again.

                Discussing the financial aspects of Mr. Metz’s decision to impose a 5-% surcharge on his customers appears to be a bit ludicrous to me. His highly publicized announcement has all the trappings of a political statement disguised as a hardship.  I can not imagine any businessman going to such lengths if his real estate taxes were raised or a bunch of suppliers hit him with higher prices. The reasons behind his actions are not likely to be found by crunching numbers.

                Never the less, here are a few facts about both Denny’s Franchises and Mr. Metz that are worth taking into account. The return on investment for a Denny's franchise is about $85,000 per year. {1} He owns forty!  A vague hypothetical that may not apply in this case. The risk factors for a Denny’s franchise are rated neutral. First time franchisees must have a net worth of a million dollars or more that includes at least $350K in liquid assets. They do not expand by placing everything they have at risk. Therefore, Mr. Metz must be a mega-millionare considering he is (a) the franchisor of Hurricane Grill & Wings, now in 48 locations; and (b) the owner of RREMC Restaurants, with about 40 Denny's plus several Dairy Queen locations.

                Putting his wealth aside, two things about Mr. Metz’s actions are disturbing. First, just like the Koch Brothers sending 50,000 emails to their employees urging them to vote for Mitt Romney {2}, Mr. Metz is urging his employees to apply political pressure from which he stands to benefit. "What we're going to ask them [his employees] to do is to speak to their elected officials, to try to convey what this means in terms of their jobs and their livelihoods," Mr. Metz said. {3}

                Then, after cutting back his servers' hours, he turns about and advises his customers they can deduct the proposed surcharge from his servers’ tips if they are unhappy with paying it. “If I leave the prices the same, but say on the menu that there is a 5 percent surcharge for Obamacare, customers have two choices. They can either pay it and tip 15 or 20 percent, or if they really feel so inclined, they can reduce the amount of tip they give to the server, who is the primary beneficiary of Obamacare," Metz told The Huffington Post.

                The servers working for a five location Denny’s franchise highlighted on FranchiseWisdom.com are paid $2.65 per hour before tips. {1}Maybe, GA, you should direct this sentiment at Mr. Metz in West Palm Beach rather than at Ms. Barnette.

                It is nice to chat with you again, GA.
                http://s2.hubimg.com/u/6919429.jpg
                {1} http://franchisewisdom.com/dennys-revie … gle_dennys
                {2} http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/1 … 65366.html
                {3} http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/1 … 22412.html

                1. tammybarnette profile image60
                  tammybarnetteposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Quill, I appreciate everytime you enter a conversation smile You have a way of cutting to the chase and the facts with a gentlemen's touch.

                  1. A Thousand Words profile image81
                    A Thousand Wordsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    I agree. He's one of those people you'd enjoy having a discussion with in a coffee shop during which you'd be secretly hoping that some of his knowledge and grace would wear off on you somehow. LoL. I'd see him being a great mentor.

                2. GA Anderson profile image88
                  GA Andersonposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Greetings Quill,
                    As usual your response is very well researched, but in this case I believe you have made an inaccurate assumption.
                   
                  Your response appears to address my response to tammybarnette as if the subject was the Denny's controversy of the thread.
                   
                  I can see how someone primed to make a point might perhaps read my response as they expected it to be, instead of what it was - and make such an error.
                   
                    Assumptions and generalities can be dangerous things.
                   
                    For the record
                    - my response, which you disected to illustrate its errors as it applies to Metz and Denny's - was actually a response to the following post by tammybarnette - not Metz and Denny's
                   
                    ....    tammybarnette wrote:

                      ...My teens have been working in fast food places for years, I worked in a sandwich shop when I was a single mom, and this has always been the practice...keep the hours just low enogh to not have to offer insurance...Before Obabacare that would be 40 hours, so now this man is saying it is 30, I will have to look that up, but the truth of the matter is that as always, they want more profit for themselves and to pay the cheapest wage allowable in order to do so! Which in IMHO is greed!"
                     
                  It was the generalities of this statement that I addressed, as you will see - not the Metz/Denny's situation as you appeared to assume.
                   
                  Also, as a former owner/operator of a two-shop restaurant operation - I am speaking from personal experience - not Google research.

                  My reading of her post, (the one I responded to), appeared to indicate she had two points to make;

                  1) she and members of her family had experience working in the fast food and sandwich shop segments of the food service industry.  - and from this experience she has determined that all restaurant owners were callous profit mongers.

                  2) because they wanted to make a profit - they were greedy.
                     *Of course she did qualify that as her opinion - and that is why I responded as I did - to help her develop a more informed opinion.

                  My first point, re. the 3% profit margin, (which is an industry average for restaurants in the under-$15 check average segment - which is the segment Denny's falls into), was made to counter popular public opinion that restaurants are cash cows for the owners. (hopefully I don't have to do the "there are exceptions... qualifier to that statement)

                  So your research that "...The return on investment for a Denny's franchise is about $85,000 per year." could mean a couple things - either they operated in an more efficient manner that could perhaps elevate their profit margin. Or, that they average approx. $2.8 - $2.9 million in sales (annual of course)

                  That doesn't appear to conflict with my statement - as my 60 grand was based on approx. $2 mil. in sales

                  The number of restaurants he has, (40 by your data), isn't really germane to my response - as the structure and example illustrations I used were directed to an owner/operator operation expanding to multiple shops in the type of "sandwich shop" situation she used as illustration. So even using your data and perspective, and applied to my response to tammy - it seems I was in the ballpark.

                  As to the first point I listed;
                  I was supporting a wife and infant on that 60 grand - damn right I wanted to maximize profits - I was also working 70+ hours every week because  every task that I hired someone to do - instead of doing myself - reduced that pre-tax 60 grand. I was a restaurant owner - did that make me greedy?

                  And yes, with the exception of a couple full-time cooks, everyone else was part-time. I could not afford full-time wages and still make a profit.
                  *(and I was relatively successful at about $2 million p/yr in sales)

                  But, the largest portion of a restaurant's labor pool is front-of-the-house; hostesses, servers, busers. Also they are typically teenagers, or young adults - who were fine with part-time hours. So was I abusing them in a quest for profit?

                  Also, yes - the tipped employees were paid about 30% of minimum wage, (again, your data of approx $2.65 p/hr - seems reasonable) and they were fine with that too! Because with tips included - most of them made at least twice minimum wage, and the good ones even more.

                  So was I greedy to pay less than minimum?
                  *A quick note to folks that have a problem with that 30% of minimum wage stuff - bone-up on typical restaurant operation and you will understand why it is necessary for the operator - and happily accepted by good servers.

                  Then you, Quill, proceeded to instruct me about the;
                  1)number of Denny's/other shops - pertinent?
                  2)required "millionaire" status of prospective franchisees  - *which isn't really as it seems because both franchise requirements can be met with borrowed money and a clean employment/personal/credit history - so if a poor fellow like myself could find investors willing to back me - I could do it too.

                  But those points aren't really pertinent, because they aren't germane to the content of the post you responded to.

                  As the rest of your response continued to address points I wasn't addressing - I'll leave it here.

                  I stand by everything I posted to tammybarnette.

                  But I do enjoy our exchanges. They are much more fulfilling than many of the rants expressed in discussions of political topics...

                  @tammybarnette - yes, Quill does have a touch for responding with a fortified and reasoned position - but in this case, his was a mistake of assumption. And I hope this lengthy reply has also helped clear up your apparent mis-interpretation of my response to you.

                  Whew!... I'm tired.

                  GA

                  1. tammybarnette profile image60
                    tammybarnetteposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    GA, First let me clarify that the woman I worked for and the owner operators of the chains my daughters have worked for are indeed millionaires. Yes, I understand the restaurant business is a hard business with high overhead. Kudos to you for working 60-80hrs, in our cases the owners were either never there or maybe a couple of hours a day. I am glad you have a wait staff that enjoys $2 and hour because I do not know anyone who does. Yes when I worked waiting tables, which is very hard work, I made good tips because I was a good waitress, but no I was not at all okay with less than min wage. Of course any business must make a profit, my point is not to the detriment of the workers that make that business happen.

                    You were supporting a wife and child on $60,000 a year, I was supporting two children on $6 an hour....

                  2. Quilligrapher profile image90
                    Quilligrapherposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Hi GA,

                    You are right. Although Ms. Barnette was talking about the Denny’s franchise holder blaming Obamacare and the thread is about the Denny’s franchise holder blaming Obamacare, I was too quick to assume you too were talking about the Denny’s franchise holder blaming Obamacare. Me bad!
                    http://s2.hubimg.com/u/6919429.jpg

        2. Repairguy47 profile image61
          Repairguy47posted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Can't stand freedom can you?

          1. psycheskinner profile image79
            psycheskinnerposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            The freedom to have life saving healthcare is very important to me.

            If you don't think employers should pay for it, socialize it and have it supported by the entire tax base.

            Employers who don't provide insure or sick days are basically just poisoning their customers.

            And the fact you can only rebut my arguments with insults is pretty revealing.

            1. Repairguy47 profile image61
              Repairguy47posted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Your argument is a successful business owner sucks  at business! Translation, you have no argument!

              1. tammybarnette profile image60
                tammybarnetteposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                If he is successful off of the backs of the underpaid and underinsured workers that's okay, right?

                1. Repairguy47 profile image61
                  Repairguy47posted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  They made the choice to work! And where is the evidence they are underpaid? Oh, you made that up to fit your nonargument.

                  1. tammybarnette profile image60
                    tammybarnetteposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Generalized statement, but I have waited tables, have you? I have worked min. wage jobs while raising two children, have you?

                  2. The Frog Prince profile image79
                    The Frog Princeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    The lefties always have strawmen to support their argument.  They are famous for creating them.  You know that.

                2. Barefootfae profile image60
                  Barefootfaeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Did you get the part where he didn't want to do that?
                  You think he is delighted to be able to do that don't you?

                  1. tammybarnette profile image60
                    tammybarnetteposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    I think he would make any excuse that did not cut into his profit Fae, what would be great, is if his employyees found new jobs and he was forced to care about the employees he makes his living off of...Or hell, lets just go back to the days of slavery and force people to work for nothing and makes all the Millionaires our owners!

            2. The Frog Prince profile image79
              The Frog Princeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              You're free to have healthcare and free to pay for it.  It is your responsibility.

              1. tammybarnette profile image60
                tammybarnetteposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Yes, I am sure the denny's waitresses can afford the $700 a month, that's of course just for themselves, so I wonder how much it would be if you have some children? How much do waitresses make these days? Ten yrs ago I made $2.13 an hour plus tips...I guess that is why I did not have health insurance back then...but now, my husband works for a company that offers insurance, we have co-pays at office visits, and it covers basically 80% of anything else, and the dental pays half and the other half is out of pocket...So now with the ACA these waitresses will have that option smile

                1. The Frog Prince profile image79
                  The Frog Princeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  She can get another job then can't she?  Or she can improve her lot where she doesn't have to work as a waitress huh?  The possibilities are endless.  This is the land of opportunity, not free stuff.

                  1. tammybarnette profile image60
                    tammybarnetteposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Oh really, what job should she get...let's see how about a lawyer, they make great money! Why was she slinging hash and busting her tail, didn't she know she could just go to college, oops, oh yea, how will she pay for college?Hmmmm, what job do you suggest?

              2. psycheskinner profile image79
                psycheskinnerposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                The American insurance system makes that impossible for average to low income people. Trying costing a plan for yourself from a freelance/self-employed/non-employer based company.  You pay 20 times more for half the coverage.  On minimum wage you would have no money for food and still not be covered if you got diabetes or cancer.

                It's like saying, you can have the moon, just flap your arms and fly there. Reassuring for those who have their own rocket ship and don't want to share, but that;s about all.

                1. Mighty Mom profile image90
                  Mighty Momposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  +1

        3. The Frog Prince profile image79
          The Frog Princeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Sometimes when you run a business it appears you aren't sane and rationale.  In the meatime just continue being a worker bee and wonder where your life went.

  3. Barefootfae profile image60
    Barefootfaeposted 4 years ago

    I find amazing the apparent delusion that none of these things existed before but ACA will make it happen.

    1. tammybarnette profile image60
      tammybarnetteposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Which "things", I was explaining to RG that we have had this same model for years in TN, aren't you from TN Fae? We have TNCARE here, remember? It is the exact same thing...Has TNCARE impacted you in a negative way in our State Fae?

      1. Barefootfae profile image60
        Barefootfaeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Well I haven't lived there for almost 20 years but I remember it.
        I don't think it and the ACA are the same thing.

        1. tammybarnette profile image60
          tammybarnetteposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          actually it is exactly the same, and many states have these programs, like MA, which someone posted earlier in the thread, now the states will discipate these programs into the fedral program, probably saving the states a lot of money which can be redirected into repairing our infrastructure...When I was a single mother TNCARE made sure my children got shots and check ups and braces...this is a good thing Fae, everyone deserves to have access to healthcare.

          1. Barefootfae profile image60
            Barefootfaeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            You are missing the whole point of this.

          2. Barefootfae profile image60
            Barefootfaeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            For one thing I don;t recall TNCARE being linked into the state tax system which I don't think they have. Didn't when I lived there.
            The IRS is woven into ACA and they will be regulating it. it will be different.
            Not to mention how the law may get amended. i am not aware of any tax that does not go up and any tax that is not mishandled by politicians.

            1. tammybarnette profile image60
              tammybarnetteposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Yes Fae, a State funded program is linked into the tax system...The devil is in the details, but what people need to realize here is that Americans need to quit thinking they are entitled to live in this country frr of charge, we pay our taxes and the government uses our tax dollars to pay our countries bills...you know that fiscal cliff, well we fought two wars on a credit card for China, it is time to pay our bills and learn to be frugal and pay our own way...it's time to cut up the credit cards, grow up, and be responsible

              1. Barefootfae profile image60
                Barefootfaeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Nobody said anything about living for free......
                They do however want you to live without choice.

              2. Barefootfae profile image60
                Barefootfaeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                You talk to me of fiscal responsibility with the Democrats?
                You forget I was raised one. They never saw a tax they not only loved but wanted increased every year and as I say there is no guarantee it will do what they say.

                1. tammybarnette profile image60
                  tammybarnetteposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  I do understand corruption Fae, I joined an organization who has made this their goal, to find and corruption and spread awareness and actually be able to approach the hill...That little diddy, "never saw a tax they didn't love" yea my Republica papaw said that all the time, so it has been going on for more than 20 yrs....

                  1. Barefootfae profile image60
                    Barefootfaeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    I am trying to get you to understand that that owner did not do that because he is evil or corrupt but because he is trying to feed his family. AND YES he is trying to take care of his employees family.
                    Basically what it will take to satisfy ACA and the folks who put it there is business has to reform to THEIR image and it ain't gonna happen.

  4. Barefootfae profile image60
    Barefootfaeposted 4 years ago

    http://s4.hubimg.com/u/7373787_f248.jpg

  5. Barefootfae profile image60
    Barefootfaeposted 4 years ago
    1. 0
      DMartelonlineposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      I guess I'm having problems with this because these folks are whining about something they already have to provide in their MA franchises.  All of these guys (Papa Johns, Applebees and some of the other more "vocal") are all required to provide insurance or pay a fine of $295 per person if they fail to make insurance available. In the case of MA, this is paid through the MA Dept of Revenue and it applies to anyone who employs 11 or more "full time equivalents". Their screeching on this issue is disingenuous in my opinion.

  6. Barefootfae profile image60
    Barefootfaeposted 4 years ago

    http://s4.hubimg.com/u/7374107_f248.jpg

    1. tammybarnette profile image60
      tammybarnetteposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      The guy who sold weapons to Iran to be a hero for freeing the hostages...yes I am sure his wisdom should be the rule...Medicaid is social medicine, did that turn us into a socilaist country? Or worse yet, communist...being that some believe socialism to be the path between capitalism and communism...

      1. The Frog Prince profile image79
        The Frog Princeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Yeah and the guy who just let four Americans die in Benghazi loves you too right?  LMBO  What a farcial line of thought.

        1. tammybarnette profile image60
          tammybarnetteposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Or we could blame Bush for the 3000 that died on our soil, or the tens of thousands in Iraq, geesh....LMBO lol

    2. psycheskinner profile image79
      psycheskinnerposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Whereas it is much better to just let people die of preventable disease and pretend its their fault.

      Why is socialism evil for medical treatment, but fine for fire fighting, roads and policing.  Seems arbitrary.  As a renter I would rather risk losing my housing temporarily and know I could go to a doctor if I needed to. Let the landlord pay firefighting fees if he wants to protect his investment.

      1. The Frog Prince profile image79
        The Frog Princeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Socialism is fine until you run out of other people's money.  Watch what is occurring in Europe and coming to your neighborhood soon.

        1. tammybarnette profile image60
          tammybarnetteposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          What? People need to take responsibility and pay their taxes, that is not socialism, that is capitalism...
          http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-07-0 … -view.html

          1. The Frog Prince profile image79
            The Frog Princeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            So pay your fair share like the rest of us do.  Good advice huh?  LMAO  There is no free lunch - health care or otherwise.  Get it yet?

            1. tammybarnette profile image60
              tammybarnetteposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              I do silliy willy, I am a responsible citizen, I don't mind to pay my taxes, don't care if they have to increase so we can become energy independent, have healthcare for all, have a strong infrastructure(which will be a big expense with the Sandy damage) I do not believe I am entitled to live here for free and believe somehow the government should be my daddy and pay for the policeman and fireman and teachers and healthcare why I use my money to go buy gum smile

              1. 0
                SassySue1963posted 4 years ago in reply to this

                It becomes socialism when about 50% of the population that file income taxes (meaning they are working) are not paying anything in taxes and a large percentage of them are also receiving money BACK from the government exceeding the amount they paid.

                1. The Frog Prince profile image79
                  The Frog Princeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Sassie - It's hard to explain to dense people what it is we are talking about.  They want to preach fair share but let 50% of the workers pay zero.  Right...

                  1. tammybarnette profile image60
                    tammybarnetteposted 4 years ago in reply to this
                2. tammybarnette profile image60
                  tammybarnetteposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  I am trying to follow the "exceeding" part, I have 3 young adults, they get back every penny they pay in and not a dime more? Are you saying if these same persons also recieve benefits such as food stamps? I am trying to follow your thought train...

                  1. The Frog Prince profile image79
                    The Frog Princeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    We try to follow your thought train too barnette but your train seems to be running down a dirt road.  You want the last word.  That's your problem.  Rather than engage your mind you want to continue to engage your mouth.  That is something I don't follow at all.  Is that a female thing with you?

                  2. 0
                    SassySue1963posted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    The Earned Income Tax Credit, the Child Care Tax Credit. This refunds tax payers for every child they claim in excess of what they have paid into the system in taxes.  For example, I work with a girl who pays $900 a year into the Federal tax system. She receives all of this back, in addition to credits for each child she has plus child care credits. At the end of the year, she receives over $7000 back from the Government.

              2. The Frog Prince profile image79
                The Frog Princeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                So do this.  Write that extra check to the US Treasury and make a copy of it and post it here so we can all see it.  In other words put your damned money where your mouth is.  Otherwise duct tape works fine.  Warren Buffet says that to but we see nothing.  Obama says the same thing but where's the money?  Get real.

                1. tammybarnette profile image60
                  tammybarnetteposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  LMBO lol Sure, I will pay more than my fair share, I pay in plenty froggie, but thanks....

                  1. The Frog Prince profile image79
                    The Frog Princeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Your mouth always pays a lot I'm sure.  You whine and cry and tell us how the government has been your Nanny.  Give it a rest.  Some of us actually built our success ourselves.

  7. Cody Hodge5 profile image83
    Cody Hodge5posted 4 years ago

    So basically to sum up this thread:

    Republicans believe anything that Fox News tells them...

    A business owner has RAISED PRICES, CUT BENEFITS AND people feel sorry FOR HIM!

    These talking points about this country being socialist are really getting old.

    It's astonishing how many people have bought into them hook, line and sinker

    *sigh*

    1. The Frog Prince profile image79
      The Frog Princeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      No to sum it up.  Businesses are in business to make a profit.  Worker bees like you work to earn a living and get paid.  After the businesses pay their overhead what is left is what they make.  That about sums it up for you does it?

    2. 0
      SassySue1963posted 4 years ago in reply to this

      I don't feel sorry for him. I feel sorry for the people that depend on his business for their living. I feel sorry for those who need what he produces and now must pay more. A policy that punishes the business owner forces his hand and it is the average worker and consumer who winds up paying the price.
      A business cannot run in the red. It will do what the policies and the business environment force upon it in order to make a profit.

      1. Cody Hodge5 profile image83
        Cody Hodge5posted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Again *sigh*

        It's not Obamacare that is ruining his business...

        Business owners will look for ANY excuse to raise prices and cut benefits to workers.

        It just so happens that people are more than willing to let this one slide.

        1. tammybarnette profile image60
          tammybarnetteposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          +1

        2. 0
          SassySue1963posted 4 years ago in reply to this

          ObamaCare changed the definition of full time from 40 hours to 30 hours. The cutting of hours is a direct result of his policies.
          You seem under some impression that a business exists solely for the good of the people. No. They exist to make a profit. Otherwise, they do not exist. Naturally, anything that cuts into that profit is going to be passed onto the consumer or taken out of the backs of the workers.
          It seems more that the left is willing to let this bad policy slide. There was absolutely no reason at all to reduce the full time hours. If they had been left alone then the cuts in hours would not be an issue.

          1. 0
            DMartelonlineposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Actually a lot of states define full time as 30 hours or more.  Generally speaking, the states set the "guidelines' for full-time employment.  I don't think that 30 hours is ridiculous to be considered "full time" since that means you're working at least 1/4 of a day (e.g., 6 hours)

        3. wilderness profile image97
          wildernessposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          This is different than unions how?  As they demand more money each year for the same (or less) work, as they demand additional benefits (including free health care) for no more work, as they demand more and more paid time off (for less work) how is it different than the business owner making a living himself?

          Greed is most definitely NOT limited to evil business owners.

          1. Uninvited Writer profile image84
            Uninvited Writerposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Yes, I love it when companies give the executives big yearly bonuses but are reluctant to give the people who do most of the work a 2% a year raise.

            1. wilderness profile image97
              wildernessposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              So?  Is it better for the company to provide an extra $100,000 to a (supposedly) superior executive that will operate the company at an increased profit (maybe even enough to give all employees a good raise) or to give 10,000 employees an extra $100 per year (5 cents per  hour) knowing it will do little or nothing for the company?  If it were YOUR income being affected, as owner of the company, which do you choose?

              You have to know, too, that giving every employee in the country a 2% raise does nothing but increase inflation by 2%.  Net result to the employee = 0.

          2. Cody Hodge5 profile image83
            Cody Hodge5posted 4 years ago in reply to this

            I wasn't aware that Denny's employees were unionized?

            1. 0
              DMartelonlineposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Actually Cody there is ONE Denny's franchise in Absecon New Jersey that is actually unionized for kitchen workers and service workers. I seem to recall they had a picket line there sometime back in the early 90s.

  8. Uninvited Writer profile image84
    Uninvited Writerposted 4 years ago

    Yes, Hostess can afford to pay retiring executives over $500,000 dollars just before claiming bankruptcy but can't afford to make a deal with unionized employees or pay anything towards health care. I imagine some of their products have been selling less and less every year due to most people changing their diets to pick healthier snacks.

    1. 0
      SassySue1963posted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Your argument holds no water. The Teamsters, the largest union that Hostess employs, reached an agreement. It was the smaller union for the bakers that refused to negotiate. Hostess did not have the financial capabilities to withstand a long strike, so they are selling. Even the Teamsters' Union came out against the bakers' union.

      1. wilderness profile image97
        wildernessposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        The Teamsters have become strong enough, and experienced enough, to know that in many cases they can destroy the livlihood of their members by bankrupting a company, and sometimes (often) take care not to do that.  It is a welcome change from years ago when no such care was taken and business owners often suffered from a complete loss of their income just as their employees did when their company went under.

        Obviously the bakers' union has not evolved enough to understand the demands of the business world; that unlimited pay is not possible without causing a company to go bankrupt.

      2. Uninvited Writer profile image84
        Uninvited Writerposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        But, they still could afford to pay off executives...

        http://seattletimes.com/html/soundecono … stess.html

        But I still think a lot of it has to do with changing tastes as well. Twinkies don't sell as well as they used to.

        1. movingout profile image61
          movingoutposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          These corporations want to Scare the American Public. And it appears to be working! They want to play ball, play hardball back. Boycott those businesses. As you stated these execs won't let loose of a dime, but can sleep at night knowing they are running many families. The same families that made them the money to begin with! Without the workers, they wouldn't have the money!

  9. movingout profile image61
    movingoutposted 4 years ago

    No, this is an example of pure GREED! These corporations doing the layoffs and/or cutting of hours are a prime example of Non Americans! Only care about themselves. They put MONEY ahead of human life! It's a sad day for America!

    1. 0
      SassySue1963posted 4 years ago in reply to this

      lol But it isn't greedy for the unions to demand more and more and more from a company that is already struggling? You can take this same scenario to the big three auto makers. More and more and more want the unions when they sit on the verge of bankruptcy every year.
      Again, businesses are there to earn a profit. If they don't, then no one has a job. Don't think that helps the company, the workers nor the average consumer any.

  10. 0
    An AYMposted 4 years ago

    Sure is a lot whiny rhetoric response to what Denny's, of all places, is doing.  I don't think I understand why everyone cares so hard/at all about this.  If 5 percent is too much of a burden to bear for uninspiring food, maybe more people will sullenly drag themselves back to their stoves to make it themselves.

    I'm more concerned over the gigantic line at that Denny's in the picture.  Why does no one else find that terrible and funny at the same time?

 
working