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We all need licenses and insurance for a car, not firearms?

  1. Castlepaloma profile image23
    Castlepalomaposted 3 years ago

    We all need licenses and insurance for a car, or home, even our dog and many of our jobs needs license and none were design to kill.

    About 80% of Americans own guns, but that's not enough. Do we really need more guns in circulation to stop mass shootings.There is 10 States firearm kill more than cars.

    Today economic slavery between the elite militarily and public guns could turn into a new Civil War.  Relationship between policing the unruly working classes, fueling the military and economic needs of the capitalist class.

    In modern mechanized societies, there is less need for sheer massive manpower; mechanical labor has most of the economic properties of slave labor, though ... it does not involve the direct demoralizing effects of human cruelty.The cure- "Make love, not debt"

    The last Civil war in the mid-1880s -over Slavery –
    Two decade of firearm deaths in America equals the Civil War deaths

    Is America building up to a new Civil War?

    1. 61
      whoisitposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      Driving in America=Privilege

      Owning firearm in America=Constitutional right.

      1. Marisa Wright profile image93
        Marisa Wrightposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        I'm sure when the Constitution was passed, people didn't need a licence to own a horse or a buggy either.  Society changes.

        1. Ralph Deeds profile image69
          Ralph Deedsposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          Yes, things change.

        2. 61
          whoisitposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          Constitution has not changed.

          1. Quilligrapher profile image90
            Quilligrapherposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            Whoisit wrote:
            Constitution has not changed.
            Fact: The Constitution has changed 27 times.
            http://s2.hubimg.com/u/6919429.jpg

            1. 61
              whoisitposted 3 years ago in reply to this

              The constitution as it pertains to the second amendment has not changed.

            2. Reality Bytes profile image93
              Reality Bytesposted 3 years ago in reply to this

              Hello Quill.

              Ten Amendments were one action, and seventeen others followed.  The United States Constitution has been altered eighteen times.


              Have a good day.  smile

              1. Quilligrapher profile image90
                Quilligrapherposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                Hey RB. How have you been? Doing well, I hope.

                Technically, the US Constitution has been amended, or as you say altered, 27 times. What would later become know as The Bill of Rights, was a joint resolution of congress containing 12 articles (17 in the original house version) being proposed simultaneously to the state legislatures for individual ratification as amendments to the Constitution. {1}

                RESOLVED …that the following Articles…all, or any of which Articles, when ratified…to be valid…as part of the Constitution.” {2}

                They were not submitted to the states to be ratified up or down as one legislative action. Each proposed amendment (article) was considered and ratified individually, not as one action, by the states as established by the fact only ten of the original twelve proposed amendments made it into the Constitution by 1791.

                “By December 15, 1791, three-fourths of the states had ratified the 10 amendments now so familiar to Americans as the ‘Bill of Rights.’" {3}


                The Constitution was literally, legally, and automatically altered when Virginia became the last of the required number of states needed to ratify 10 individual amendments of the original 12, with no additional congressional action required. Even though their official ratification was simultaneous, they were 10 separate constitutional actions and not one. The second of the 12 original proposed amendments was finally ratified and became the 27th Amendment in 1992 and the first is considered as still in the process of being ratified.   

                Thank you, RB, for providing the incentive to dig into this rather insignificant matter. For now, I will stick with the Constitution has changed 27 times and you can hold on to 18.
                http://s2.hubimg.com/u/6919429.jpg
                {1} http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/United_St … _of_Rights
                {2} http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charte … cript.html
                {3} http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charte … story.html

                1. Reality Bytes profile image93
                  Reality Bytesposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                  There has been 27 changes. The document itself has been changed 18 times.  You will not find a Constitution printed without the first ten either present or not.  Perhaps insignificant but definitely historical trivia.



                  1.The first ten amendments, commonly known as a group as the Bill of Rights, were all ratified at once. The amendments were proposed on September 25, 1789.

                  2.The 11th Amendment, which limits Supreme Court jurisdiction, was proposed on March 4, 1794.

                  3.  The 12th Amendment, which reworks the presidential selection process, was proposed on December 9, 1803.

                  4  The 13th Amendment, which prohibits slavery, was proposed on January 31, 1865.

                  5.  The 14th Amendment, which guarantees the rights of citizens and other persons, was proposed on June 13, 1866.

                  6.  The 15th Amendment, which ensures the right of black men to vote, was proposed on February 26, 1869.

                  7  .The 16th Amendment, which specifically authorizes the income tax, was proposed on July 12, 1909.

                  8.  The 17th Amendment, which required Senators be elected by the people, was proposed on May 13, 1912.

                  9.  The 18th Amendment, which prohibited alcohol, was proposed on December 18, 1917.

                  10.  The 19th Amendment, which ensures women the right to vote, was proposed on June 4, 1919.

                  11.  The 20th Amendment, which sets the dates for the beginning of congressional and presidential terms, was proposed on March 2, 1932.

                  12.  The 21st Amendment, which repealed Amendment 18, was proposed on February 20, 1933.

                  13.  The 22nd Amendment, which sets the presidential two-term limit, was proposed on March 21, 1947.

                  14.   The 23rd Amendment, which grants Washington D.C. electoral votes, was proposed on June 17, 1960.

                  15.  The 24th Amendment, which ensures the vote cannot be taken away for failing to pay a poll tax, was proposed on August 27, 1962.

                  16.  The 25th Amendment, which details presidential disability procedures, was proposed on July 6, 1965.

                  17.  The 26th Amendment, which ensures the vote to all citizens over the age of 18, was proposed on March
                  23,1971.

                  18.  The 27th Amendment, which restricts raises in congressional pay, was proposed on September 25, 1789.


                  http://www.usconstitution.net/constamrat.html


                  I ever tell you about touring the John Adams house and seeing one of the Original copies hanging on the wall?  Truly an awesome experience.

                  1. Castlepaloma profile image23
                    Castlepalomaposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                    Interesting,

      2. Castlepaloma profile image23
        Castlepalomaposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        whoisit
        Driving in America=Privilege
        Whoist might be right about this one,

        Almost everything has turn from being a Right to a Privilege. Who needs the Constitution when rich are most likely to own your home, your job and most of the good land. Too bad most of us don't belong to their club.

        1. 61
          whoisitposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          Driving has never been a right.

          1. Castlepaloma profile image23
            Castlepalomaposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            Never

            1910, North America's first driver's licensing law went into effect in the U.S. state of New York, though it initially applied only to professional chauffeurs. In July 1913, the state of New Jersey became the first to require all drivers to pass a mandatory examination before receiving a license.

            1. 61
              whoisitposted 3 years ago in reply to this

              Thats right, never!

              1. Castlepaloma profile image23
                Castlepalomaposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                1893, the Duryea brothers' first automobile was constructed and successfully tested on the public streets of Springfield, Massachusetts.

                Give or take 16 years

                1. 61
                  whoisitposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                  Thats nice, driving has never been a right, never.

                  1. Reality Bytes profile image93
                    Reality Bytesposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                    What is a legal definition of a driver?

                    What is DRIVER?
                    One employed in conducting a coach, carriage, wagon, or other vehicle,with horses, mules, or other animals, or a bicycle, tricycle, or motor car, though not astreet railroad car. See Davis v. Petrinovich, 112 Ala. 654, 21 South. 344, 36 L. R. A.615; Gen. St. Conn. 1902,



                    Read more: What is DRIVER? definition of DRIVER (Black's Law Dictionary)



                    The Right To Travel

                    As the Supreme Court notes in Saenz v Roe, 98-97 (1999), the Constitution does not contain the word "travel" in any context, let alone an explicit right to travel (except for members of Congress, who are guaranteed the right to travel to and from Congress). The presumed right to travel, however, is firmly established in U.S. law and precedent. In U.S. v Guest, 383 U.S. 745 (1966), the Court noted, "It is a right that has been firmly established and repeatedly recognized." In fact, in Shapiro v Thompson, 394 U.S. 618 (1969), Justice Stewart noted in a concurring opinion that "it is a right broadly assertable against private interference as well as governmental action. Like the right of association, ... it is a virtually unconditional personal right, guaranteed by the Constitution to us all." It is interesting to note that the Articles of Confederation had an explicit right to travel; it is now thought that the right is so fundamental that the Framers may have thought it unnecessary to include it in the Constitution or the Bill of Rights.

                    http://www.usconstitution.net/constnot.html#travel


                    Are you sure?

                    Do not believe it!

                    Is it illegal to drive?

    2. 69
      logic,commonsenseposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      500 people killed in Chicago, they have some of the strictest gun laws.
      I know it's trite to say guns do not kill people, people kill people, but it's true.  A gun laying on a table will not kill someone.  It takes someone to pick it up and using it, to kill.
      It's time to hold people responsible for their actions.  If they kill and it is positive that they are guilty, then they need to be treated in the same fashion as they treated their victims.
      If  a person is mentally ill, they need to be prevented from obtaining any kind of weapon.
      Movies and video games have numbed our morals and have made fantasy reality.
      Parents need to take responsibility for their childrens actions and work to make their children aware of their moral responsibilities to society.

      1. ftclick profile image60
        ftclickposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        Guns don't kill people people do. Well, the same for a car. 
        A  car will not kill people by itself either unless turned on.
        A gun with the right props (booby trapped like in those stupid gorey movies) can kill without someone pulling the trigger.
        A license to carry a firearm is a law and a license to drive a car are mandatory. 
        I'd buy some insurance stocks big time if you are going to require people to get insurance for a firearm.  wrongful & accidental death lawsuits by firearm will go through the roof.
        logic commonsense, I agree with everything else you say though.

      2. Castlepaloma profile image23
        Castlepalomaposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        You guys left out some two other details

        1. Chicago has two other nearby boarder States they can easily buy their firearms from.

        2. 500 murders have occurred here this year. 87% percent of these murders, or 435 of them, were committed with guns. Chicago, which has racked up more murders than any other American city this year, has been called “the murder capital of America”

        1. 61
          whoisitposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          Were the weapons bought in those other states?

          1. Castlepaloma profile image23
            Castlepalomaposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            According to news report,
            Where would find lower cost weapons and nearby?

            1. 61
              whoisitposted 3 years ago in reply to this

              What?

        2. Shadesbreath profile image90
          Shadesbreathposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          "Good people don't need laws to make them act responsibly, and bad people will find a way around those laws." —Plato, circa 300 BCE

          If they can't get them from the state nearby, they will get them from the black market. Drugs are illegal in this country too. We insist on banning them. So the black market has funded the flourishing growth of an enormous and brutally militarized drug cartel in Mexico (they even have submarines now!). Think how much bigger and more powerful they will come if we legislate a whole new line of products for them to sell us. When is this country going to learn the lesson of Prohibition? How stupid can we possibly be? I mean, if you want to stop violence, why do it by outlawing one weapon at a time. Why not just make all violence illegal, period?

          Oh wait, it is.

          Plato was right. Everyone clamoring for more laws are blind. The problems won't stop, but freedom will have been eroded anyway. It's the inevitable repetition of history. Our country is absolutely doomed to the slow but inevitable movement towards a police state (you know, the kind of place that has traffic cameras, phone taps, mandatory vaccinations, pat downs and body scans at airports, and only the government is armed ... yeah, that kind of stuff). Every time something bad happens, everyone gets scared, and angry, and sad, and they use those EMOTIONS to justify giving up more freedoms in the name of safety.

          1. secularist10 profile image92
            secularist10posted 3 years ago in reply to this

            Since prohibition is a waste of time, we should allow the free trade of rocket launchers, land mines and nuclear warheads, right?

            1. Shadesbreath profile image90
              Shadesbreathposted 3 years ago in reply to this

              Yes, we should absolutely rush right to the far end of absurdity and forgo having anything like genuine conversations.

              1. Castlepaloma profile image23
                Castlepalomaposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                After we kill a hunred million or so people, abuse will change their minds for sure, as it has done through out mankind history.

                Too bad, for narrow minded, short sighted leaders, leading us on with guns.
                Such a waste.

                1. 61
                  whoisitposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                  Once again, they are our leaders not yours!

                  1. Castlepaloma profile image23
                    Castlepalomaposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                    It's my concern when the multi media brainwashes my countrymen.
                    Or when most of my family members live in the USA
                    OR when half my business work permits are cancel just because I won't entertain a warproject for a warlord President

              2. secularist10 profile image92
                secularist10posted 3 years ago in reply to this

                Shades:

                It's a simple question. If you're interested in a genuine conversation then you should be able to clarify your position.

                You posited that prohibition doesn't work. Evidently it works for some things but not for others?

  2. innersmiff profile image78
    innersmiffposted 3 years ago

    Simply by being on the road, drivers are putting each other in danger. Gun ownership in and of itself does not put any individual in danger.

    Both of these things, though, in a free market can be up to the discretion of the individual or group who owns them. If the government didn't exercise a violent monopoly over the roads, the question wouldn't fit.

  3. Paul Wingert profile image79
    Paul Wingertposted 3 years ago

    In this day and age, gun ownership should be a privilage and individual guns (manufactured after 1898 - replica muzzleloaders don't count) should be registered every year like a car. 
    There are a couple renegade states like Missisippi and Texas that talk seceeding and passing laws to ignore upcoming federal laws. This won't be the first time that the feds had to go down to Missisippi to tell them what's up. I think we should give Texas back to Mexico.

    1. Castlepaloma profile image23
      Castlepalomaposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      Bigger guns won the West. Now it's the brown people in the Middle East

      Why do I fell like an Indain rather than a Cowboy?

      1. Paul Wingert profile image79
        Paul Wingertposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        In reality, the late 19th century cowboys never battled the Indians and not stupid enough to do so. It was a common practice for the cowboys to give a cow to the Indian trip in exchange for safe passage through tribal lands. Indians weren't the cowboy's concern, it was other whites. There was some gun control in the wild west towns. Unlike the western movies, guys didn't walk into a saloon armed. Most towns required everyone to check their guns in at the sheriff's office. But the wild west days have ended a 100 years ago and we need to change with the times. No longer is the long rifle a needed tool to provide food for the family and defenece again wild animals and bandits in the vast prairie being settled. Home defence and sport shooting is still a valid point for owning a gun (no inlcuding the collection of antique guns), but not an assault rifle with a 30 round banana clip.

        1. Shadesbreath profile image90
          Shadesbreathposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          Man, it's just mind blowing how everyone is so willing to ignore the evidence of history. It's just ... insane. They wrote the 2nd amendment because they were smart enough, and well read enough, and recent victims of the endless cycle of how tyranny comes about. And yet, despite this modern age where books are far more accessible and affordable than they were back then ... no longer a privileged for only the rich, so many will happily throw off all that was learned at the height of the Enlightenment in favor of laziness, not just to read and think critically (and in the absence of mindless emotions, including fear) but a total unwillingness to address the real problems, whatever those may be. Fear and paranoia are the tools of tyranny, and nobody wants to read any more than what they can see pasted on that funny picture on Facebook that totally works with  their opinion, even though the claim so implied is totally fallacious once any logic is applied. Nobody cares. Death is scary. And so let's keep pretending we can legislate it away.  If we get enough mandatory health care laws and helmet laws and gun laws and what you can eat laws and what you can smoke/drink laws, etc., pretty soon NOBODY WILL EVER DIE AGAIN! OMG, THE UNICORNS WILL FINALLY COME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

          Unfortunately, the unicorns are tyrants.

        2. Castlepaloma profile image23
          Castlepalomaposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          I’ve build many North American history displays

          When Columbus returned to the Hispaniola, he quickly implemented policies of slavery and mass extermination of the Taino population of the Caribbean. Within three years, five million were dead. The God rush, Christianity and piracy were born. Mass killing did not cease, however, after Columbus departed.

          One of the foundations of the U.S. imperialist strategy was to replace traditional leadership of the various indigenous nations, in order to expedite compliance with U.S. goals and expansion.

          The American native Genocide was considered to be the most ever in Mankind History. Even Hitler was impressed how the new World American contact reduced the Early American Native count population by 95%.

          Expansion of the European colonies led to similar genocides. "Trail of Tears" "Indian Removal" policy was put into action to clear the land for white settlers. High death rates resulted from forced marches to relocate the Indians. Probably one of the most ruinous acts to the Indians was the disappearance and killing of the buffalo.
          As a result, bigotry and racial discrimination and it still exist

          Genocide entered international law for the first time in 1948; the international community took notice when Europeans (Jews, Poles, and other victims of Nazi Germany) faced cultural extinction. The "Holocaust" of World War II came to be the model of genocide.

          What ‘s Next in the Guns and Gods World.
          The main problem with Guns is not the Death toll, It’s about power and control and the fearing threat of them, a big part of the cause of worldwide poverty. Much like the thread of nuclear war, the Americans are the only country that has actually used Nuclear weapons. Who is insane enought to use them in a world war 3, it there for threat and fear for control again and so are the guns in American for bullies

          The good news is most of the Global economic are not so afraid anymore and can advance their own economic growth faster than American can so, it will work out better for over all in the long run.

          1. Shadesbreath profile image90
            Shadesbreathposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            So you are saying that all the empires that grew in Africa, Asia, the middle east, all the old South American empires over the last ten thousand years... all of those pale in comparison to the expansion of Europeans across North America, and after the revolution, the expansion of the U.S.? You are saying in the totality of human history around the globe, all continents, all epochs, the U.S. expansion was THE most brutal and methodical of them all throughout all of human history? 

            lol

            Uh, you got anything to back that up? I mean, yes, this is the Internet, so you can just run off any ideas you like and call them true, but, just, you know, for the sake of curiosity, I'd love to hear how you came up with that little tidbit of history there.

            1. Castlepaloma profile image23
              Castlepalomaposted 3 years ago in reply to this

              Country    Total firearm-related death rate    Homicides                   
              Firearm-related death-rate per 100,000 population in one year.
              El Salvador    50.36    50.36           
              Jamaica          47.44    47.44   
              Honduras       46.70    46.70           
              Guatemala    38.52    38.52           
              Swaziland      37.16    37.16           
              Mexico           25.14    14.00           
              Colombia        11.10    10.00           
              Brazil               11.01    18.10           
              Panama           10.92    9.92       
              United States   10.2    3.6           
              Philippines       9.46    9.46           
              South Africa      9.41    NA
              Montenegro      8.55    2.06           
              Paraguay          7.35    7.35           
              Nicaragua         7.14    7.14           
              Argentina         5.65        3.00
              firearm-related death-rate per 100,000 population in one year.
                                 
              Recent History is more likely to repent it'sself
              Most homicide in the world are in the Americans and the USA has the highest firearm homicide and suicide in the industrial Nations .
              About 12 of the top 16 homicides countries are within the Americas





              Pin point what area of history your interested in, my  extensive studies comes from  Native American building sculpture displays in museum and themes parks in North and South America for over 30 years

              1. 61
                whoisitposted 3 years ago in reply to this
          2. 61
            whoisitposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            LOL

            1. Ralph Deeds profile image69
              Ralph Deedsposted 3 years ago in reply to this

              LIOL=very persuasive argument.

  4. peeples profile image90
    peeplesposted 3 years ago

    I agree with you to a certain extent. I own guns, I have a CWP, and I have business insurance that I believe covers "damages" if I am forced to shoot someone while working. However for law abiding people who's guns are locked in their home I think a license should be required.

  5. SpanStar profile image59
    SpanStarposted 3 years ago

    This idea of American people taking over the American government just sounds so ludicrous to me.

    As a Vietnam vet. I am a little behind the times when it comes to weapons of today which are far more advanced than during the Vietnam era.

    If there is to be an uprising to take over the American government even by the American people then the military does not have to consider this a civil disobedience meaning they do not have to restrain themselves.

    Consider what a well trained platoon-(I said platoon = smaller numbers)

    If it were I commanding this platoon I would have 2 or 3 people dressed in civilian attire and infiltrate those factions who have set themselves up to fight against the government. Should people begin to pour into the streets mustard gas (not teargas) could be deployed, how many people have gas mask, not for themselves only but for every member of their family? Some people may have assault rifles but do they have armored vehicles? I suspect some of the people will probably be veterans and so they will have a few military Arsenals but the military is well supplied with more of these military arsenals. I suspect American civilians have never seen the effects of a Claymore mine, I'm guessing a lots of civilian haven't seen the effects of phosphorescent grenade. The horror of this fight is not simply going to remain in the streets but it will pour into the homes of Americans. With parents and children suffering and dying this will bring a whole new dimension to terror. And there those who really think that they can win against American military who have been at war for as long as one can remember. It's so many American men women and children dead or dying industry all because you would let me have an assault rifle... I don't know about you but it sounds crazy to me.

    1. Shadesbreath profile image90
      Shadesbreathposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      That's pretty much exactly how it works in the Middle East each time a new tyrant pops up and the people try to throw them off. The problem with tyrants is they like to do the whole dissapearance thing, the labor camp thing, the torture political dissidents thing, and, even if people would just roll over and let democracy fail here in America so that no babies would suffer, in the end, babies suffer anyway, because tyranny only gets worse, not gentler and kinder. So, at some point, the people always fight back. And while I agree that a well trained platoon is going to be hard core against civilians, the example of Vietnam does show that civilians are not completely easy to run over. The same can be said in the Middle East now against our guys, thirty years ago against the Soviets, hell, fifteen hundred years ago against the might of Europe. George Washington was a "terrorist" and a "guerrilla" fighter against His Majesty's finest. It's always the "little guy" with less stuff that stands up to a tyrant, because tyrants are always the big a-hole pushing everyone around. That starts by taking away the ability of the people to push back, a.k.a. disarming them. Nobody wants to see babies getting mustard-gassed. But it is the fear of that very thing that gives tyrants their power. Babies don't want to grow up safe only to live in a world of oppression, death camps, labor camps, ethnic cleansing, mandatory submission to bodily invasions (brands, tattoos, vaccinations, etc.), and all the other stuff that goes on every single day on this planet all over the place, but not here. At least not yet. It will get there if we keep letting fear be the excuse for unraveling the Constitution, one thread at a time. You would trade safety for freedom, and in the end, you will have neither. (I think that's actually something Franklin said, but I'm not sure. Sounded familiar right after I typed it.)

      1. SpanStar profile image59
        SpanStarposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        Perhaps sometime in the past your argument would be valid for but does anyone genuinely think that America's presidents are tyrants? Certainly the current president is faced with disrespect even from those old he is in charge of.
        If one is to go into battle presumably one believes they have the possibility of winning. Whoever these people are that believe they can win against the most powerful military on the earth makes me question their sanity.

        1. 61
          whoisitposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          Who besides the military is Obama in charge of?

          1. SpanStar profile image59
            SpanStarposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            It is the military I'm speaking-have we forgotten the general I think was his rank talking down about the president to the news media without even bring his concerns to the president first...

        2. Shadesbreath profile image90
          Shadesbreathposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          Tyranny doesn't happen over night. The morons saying Obama is a tyrant are, well, morons. He is liberal, true, but not in some fanatic way. But he will allow some more chipping away at the strength of the nation, more freedoms will erode. And it's not just liberals that do it. Bush let us have our phones tapped and was perfectly happy to toss out due process of law.

          Nobody is saying "our presidents are tyrants." Well, okay, some people are, but you see how stupid that sounds, so ignore them. That doesn't mean you should write off anyone who doesn't agree with your point of view. The road to tyranny is a progression; it is a slow and sometimes meandering but distinct move away from personal freedom to authoritarianism. The ironic part is that it always SEEMS like a good idea to take away freedom. It SEEMS like a good idea to take guns away, or build and maintain a list of citizens who own guns so that the state can monitor them in the name of safety (or have them executed if there is a rebellion ... everyone knows about "lists" and tyranny). It SEEMS like a good idea to mandate vaccinations so that people will be healthy. It seems like a good idea to mandate lots of things. It's the old "road to hell is paved with good intentions" thing.

          As for your suggestion that somehow in the past my points might be more relevant. Dude! Google "Benjamin Franklin quotes" and you'll see at least twenty things he said that apply absolutely directly to America today. It's not about "in the past" his points were true, like those guys somehow lived in a more primitive world, but today we're all high and smarter now. Go read his stuff. Go read Washington's farewell address when he left office. Hell, go read Thucydides History of the Peloponnesian War, or Herodotus' histories. Go, actually do it, and you will see how insane and reckless your suggestion that "in the past" my arguments make sense. EVERY time is at one point a NOW, and later "in the past." But humanity hasn't changed one bit. If you think it has, you haven't studied it at all.

          1. Castlepaloma profile image23
            Castlepalomaposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            The Second Amendment of the United States Constitution is one the most misunderstood and most widely discussed of the Amendments in the Bill of Rights. Debate over this amendment escalated in the late 20th century, when organizations lobbying for gun control in the United States found themselves debating pro-gun lobbies over its precise meaning

            Shadesbreath
            From listing all the pro's and con's from all of mankind history til now. It has actual changed over all for the better,  more oppertunities. Less wars per capita,yet as long as humanity exists, war will.

            If we look back at 100 years ago, we could see how well have come along in history.

            Today medicine has greatly increased our lifespan, and reduced the dangers of disease. refrigerators More conveniences, More knowledge. A person from the other side of the country can  contacting you in seconds (email), or in person in hours or days.


            People a hundred years ago  were probably more likely, to be hateful, unhealthy, stupid, closed-minded, uneducated, judgmental, unfriendly, or whatever negative largely to the modern world. Turning fantastic dreams into reality is more likely today, still can’t prove Unicorns yet.

            I think another Amendment is due again to take guns from away the warlords and public as I think we are more inteligent than our Biblical hard times or in American records of a 100 years ago

            1. Shadesbreath profile image90
              Shadesbreathposted 3 years ago in reply to this

              LOL. Dude, yes, our technology is better than it was 100 years ago. But guess what, their technology was better than the generation before. So was that generations better than the one before. And so on. The Enlightenment sped things along for Europe for a few hundred years.

              I'm sure you've heard that "history repeats itself." It does. Every age, well, that whole dark ages thing aside, but every age is moving forward in technology, medicine, learning, etc. If not, we'd all be living in caves and throwing spears.

              Your decision to answer my point by pulling arbitrary statistics out of recent history only further proves that you have either no willingness to recognize that humanity is exactly as it always was, or that you can't recognize it. Which may be a product of having not studied history very carefully, or at best only very selectively.

              Furthermore, you have with that list of gun stats, completely evaded the issue I took with your asserting that somehow the US expansion across the continent was somehow the "most brutal" in all of history or whatever your words were. That is ludicrous, and once again reveals a grotesque lack of global and historical context. Now, I'm hardly trying to argue that the taking over of North America by the Europeans who became Americans was done in a polite and civil manner, but for Pete's sake man, have you never heard of the Mexica (Aztecs)? The Mongols? The Romans? The Ottoman Empire? I mean, dude, I could go on. There were Chinese dynasties, Egyptian conquests, Countless middle eastern and African kingdoms and empires, genocides (you see Hotel Rwanda?).  I mean, come on, man, I realize it's fun to argue in forums, but you are insane if you think the US expansion represented anything different than what happened everywhere else, always.

              Yes, we should try to be better than that. I get it. But the ONLY  way we can actually try to be better is not to pretend that we are somehow better. We're not. If you can't admit you have a problem, you ain't going to solve it.

              And the bottom line is, history has proven over and over and over again, any population that is disarmed, is ultimately going to be subject to tyranny. Democracies end in tyranny. They always do. It happens because once the people figure out they can vote themselves money for what they like, taken from other taxpayers who don't like it, the whole thing begins to slowly unravel. The republic meant to protect minorities from majorities will fail, and as people become afraid of losing whatever it is they value, they seek a strong protector, a party who will preserve what remains of the way they like it, or who will build it the way they want it. That protection comes at a cost of liberty. It is the way of it. All we can do it try to hold it off. And, ironically, that means people like you need to be arguing for liberty, not against it, even if the liberty you are arguing for scares you. The alternative is worse. It's cowardly to choose safety for yourself today and sell out liberty for your grand children. At least that's how I see it. (And, dude, you need to read more history. It's really great, especially if you don't get anything written recently, since that's all the currently popular versions that align perfectly with the agenda of the power structure we have in place. Go read the old Greek stuff so you can see how nothing today is new, at all, and in fact, rather than being new, it was actually all old back then too.)

              1. Castlepaloma profile image23
                Castlepalomaposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                Yes technology is better now than ever and it’s just about a matter your prospective on life, like if your life is half empty cup or half full cup. The x or y generation now is more intelligent than, when I was their age and so on.  Not trying to make anyone too comfortable, there is always room for improvement though.

                Married an Aztecs, own a home in Belize studied North and South Native American history for the last 30 years. Been studying about history since age 8. Traveled worldwide many times over. Traveled about 94 countries either as a tourist, athlete or Artist/builder program and made part of my living studying history everywhere.  Many cultures, races and nations throughout history have had there turn at world domination, it’s just The USA turn to try own the world and they will fail all the same, like all the rest. No one like the USA occupies militarily base 150 countries, have half the worlds war budget and 25% of the world’s prison.  My job as an artist is to make people aware, the world will solves itself.

                1. Shadesbreath profile image90
                  Shadesbreathposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                  Well, at least you're backing away from that insupportable claim about how it was such a widely held truth that somehow what happened in North America was somehow different than anywhere else.

                  But, you'd think that given all that travel and learning about world history you have that, you'd see the bases we have right now, and the level of control we have (assuming we have anywhere even marginally as much as you are insinuating we do, and assuming as well that the leaders of those nations are all mindless automatons who don't willingly seek us out and make sweetheart deals for themselves or roll right over when we come knocking ... if we assume that they are all helpless saints who sit with their puppies and kittens stroking the soft fur and dreaming of how one day there will be peace on Earth and then we storm in with the Navy SEALS and force our money and aid on them ... ) all of that doesn't even touch the level of imperial imposition of the Romans, the Persians, the Egyptians or the Aztecs. Not even in the same ballpark. Not even the same sport. Not even a sport really, more like a really soft-handed computer game version of the real sport those empires played.

                  And Gen X and Gen Y are NOT smarter. They have the advantage of information that was built layer upon layer by people who were JUST as smart that came before them. Could you make a bronze axe? Weave shoes out of Mammoth tendons? Could you even preserve the meat from the mammoth you killed long enough to eat it for a week, much less a year back when there were mammoths? They could.

                  Yeah, they weren't stupid. You mistake the accumulation of knowledge for some kind of genetic transmutation of the species. It's not. It has nothing to do with glass half empty or glass half full. That's a lovely metaphor, but it means nothing in the context of evaluation the intellectual capacity of the human animal. We are exactly the same thing we have been for thousands of years. Maybe longer, but I'm not going to go dig out my anthropology books to refresh on where cro-magnon kicks in and all that rot.

                  1. Castlepaloma profile image23
                    Castlepalomaposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                    In the near future, we may have enough plans to ‘create’ a Neanderthal baby within his lab, I don’t known enough about cro-magnon.

                    A group of like-minded patriots, bound together by pride in American exceptionalism, plan on building an armed community to protect their liberty.I will not accept living in a synthetic world controlled by guns rather than controlled by the heart. The natural world laws and the true leaders throughout mankind history has been the collective consciousness of 80% of the People. People know it’s a negative to have wars terror, or guns. The people know the positive that penetrate their heart is by kindness and love. Guns are useless and will be losing the their power in the future because guns do not have mural benefits like your home, car or dog.

  6. Disappearinghead profile image89
    Disappearingheadposted 3 years ago

    How much of this gun ownership is attributed to self defence from the armed robber and pedophile, versus an unsubstantiated paranoid fear that the government is going to:
    1. turn into a neo-communist socialist regime?
    2. ask the United Nations to come and take over the country?
    3. hand power over to the Rockafellers?
    4. enforce the mark of the beast?
    Delete as applicable.

    1. 61
      whoisitposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      Who cares? Its our constitutional right to own them.

      1. Paul Wingert profile image79
        Paul Wingertposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        It's our constitutional right to own arms, but arms can be regulated and certain arms can be banned which it also constitutional.

    2. Ralph Deeds profile image69
      Ralph Deedsposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      From what I can see, all the above plus assassination of abortion doctors and members of U.S. Congress.

  7. Superkev profile image85
    Superkevposted 3 years ago

    Chicago, Ill 2012 - 506 Homicides

    Austin, TX 2012 - 35 Homicides

    Chicago is a heavily gun restricted city, Austin, not so much.

    1. Disappearinghead profile image89
      Disappearingheadposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      That's not a convincing argument is it. I may not be an American, but even I can see that Chicago and Austin have completely different demographics, economies, and cultures. Enough differences to blur any so called effects of gun restrictions.

  8. SpanStar profile image59
    SpanStarposted 3 years ago

    From my perspective apparently human life in America amounts to very little. As  there are those of us who stand concrete in our rhetoric that we are safe with an endless amount of guns in our society.

    Doctor shot dead in exam room; man in custody

    http://news.yahoo.com/doctor-shot-dead- … 50156.html

    Number of gun deaths since the Newtown, shooting-700 Gun Deaths

    http://bobbiblogger.wordpress.com/2013/ … -shooting/

    This website says gun deaths exceed 1,000

    http://www.presstv.ir/usdetail/284169.html

  9. Ralph Deeds profile image69
    Ralph Deedsposted 3 years ago

    From last week's gun news: Joe Nocera in today's NY Times

    Eleaquin Temblador had plans. He was working to earn his high school diploma and wanted to join the U.S. Marine Corps and marry his girlfriend. ... Instead, family members are planning Temblador’s funeral. For reasons no one can explain, gunmen in a light-colored, older-model vehicle gunned down the 18-year-old ... as he rode his bicycle home from his girlfriend’s house.

    — Dailybreeze.com, Los Angeles

    Relatives of a teen who was shot while playing basketball at a local park said the 16-year-old is now paralyzed from the waist down. ... Police said the shooter, a 17-year-old boy, had a gun stuck in his waistband. While he was playing basketball, someone bumped into him and the gun went off. ...

    — Click Orlando.com

    Tuesday, Jan. 22:

    A Baton Rouge man who authorities said was playing with a gun was booked ... in the accidental shooting of his 2-year-old brother. ... [The man’s uncle] said the teen had armed himself due to “environmental pressure” from neighborhood friends.

    — The Advocate, Baton Rouge, La.

    The New Mexico teenager who used an assault rifle to kill his mother, father and younger siblings told police he hoped to shoot up a Walmart after the family rampage and cause “mass destruction.” ... Nehemiah Griego, the 15-year-old son of an Albuquerque pastor ... “stated he wanted to shoot people at random and eventually be killed while exchanging gunfire with law enforcement,” the [police] report said.

    — ABC News

    Wednesday, Jan. 23:

    Kansas City police arrested a 16-year-old Ruskin High School student accused of shooting at a school bus after the driver refused to allow him to board on Wednesday.

    — The Kansas City Star

    A 4-year-old boy has died after being shot in the head Wednesday. ... The deputy [sheriff] located the child’s body inside of a Ford Taurus. There was a bullet hole in the roof of the car. ... “Jamarcus loved Batman, Spider-Man and football and was looking forward to starting kindergarten,” [his mother] said.

    — Newsnet5.com, Akron, Ohio

    Thursday, Jan. 24:

    The estranged husband of a woman found dead in her Madison apartment Thursday was found dead in his home ... of an apparent self-inflicted gunshot wound. ... “We can’t really believe it; I mean, these things happen on TV, they don’t happen to us,” [her stepmother] said. “We’re middle class, normal Americans, and she was a nice girl.”

    — WISC-TV, Madison, Wis.

    Police said an 11-year-old girl is in critical condition after being shot in the face by her father in a New Jersey home on Thursday night. Investigators said 27-year-old Byaer Johnson apparently entered the home to visit his young daughter. ... He was asked to leave, then picked up a handgun and shot his daughter.

    — CBS News

    Friday, Jan. 25:

    An Oakland police officer was shot and wounded Friday evening, the second officer in the city to be injured by gunfire this week. ... The shooting happened after a man in a car ran a stop sign, crashed into another car ... and ran off. Shortly thereafter, an uncle and his nephew reported that they were shot a block away by a man who tried to steal the uncle’s bicycle.

    — SFGate.com

    A man has been charged with murder for fatally shooting his brother during a “domestic” dispute outside a South Side Englewood home Friday afternoon. ...

    — Chicago.CBSlocal.com

    Saturday, Jan. 26:

    A party in Salem that spilled outdoors ended in drive-by gunfire that hit at least two people and riddled a car and nearby homes. ...

    — KOINlocal6, Salem, Ore.

    A 55-year-old man has been released from custody after allegedly shooting and killing his own dog. Police say Gordon Lagstrom was drunk Saturday night when he pulled a .38 caliber handgun and shot to death his 4-year-old Australian terrier, Lena.

    — Boston.CBSlocal.com

    The city broke a nine-day murder-free streak last night when a man was found dead in the basement of a Queens apartment complex, police said. The 20-year-old victim, whose name was not released, had been shot in the head.

    — New York Post

    Among those killed Saturday was a 34-year-old man whose mother had already lost her three other children to shootings. Police say Ronnie Chambers, who was his mother’s youngest child, was shot in the head while sitting in a car. Police say two separate double-homicide shootings also occurred Saturday about 12 hours apart. ... Chicago’s homicide count eclipsed 500 last year for the first time since 2008.

    — CBS News

    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/29/opini … n&_r=0

    1. SpanStar profile image59
      SpanStarposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      Ralph,

      You have made it clear at least to me that assault rifles are not the only threat to animal and human life when it comes to guns.

      1. Ralph Deeds profile image69
        Ralph Deedsposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        That's true. Handguns are a bigger problem statistically. Assault weapons produce more horrific multiple killings.

        1. wilderness profile image97
          wildernessposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          You have heard that Newtown was done with handguns, not a rifle at all, let alone an assault rifle?

          1. Ralph Deeds profile image69
            Ralph Deedsposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            No, I hadn't. It was widely reported that Lanza used a Bushmaster.

            "But the AR-15 style rifle — the most popular rifle in America, according to gun dealers — was also the weapon of choice for Adam Lanza, who the police said used one made by Bushmaster on Friday to kill 20 young children and six adults in an elementary school in Newtown, Conn., in a massacre that has horrified the nation."

            http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/17/us/la … wanted=all

            It doesn't matter. Pistols with big magazines can kill a lot of people also. You agree that handguns are a bigger problem than assault weapons?

            As I recall the guy who shot Gabby Gifford and several others in Tucson used a handgun with a big magazine.

            From what I read in the newspaper nearly every morning handguns are used more than any other weapon in bank robberies, drug wars, accidents, etc.

            Here's a more recent report (January 21) which says Lanza used more than one gun:

            http://www.ijreview.com/2013/01/31221-u … shootings/

            Here's Wikipedia's report, the most complete I've seen. It says Lanza used a Bushmaster, and two handguns--a Glock and a  9mm Sig Sauer handgun.

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandy_Hook … l_shooting

            1. wilderness profile image97
              wildernessposted 3 years ago in reply to this

              The latest police report I saw said that there was a rifle left outside, that the only guns found inside were pistols.  Didn't pay a lot of attention because, as you are aware, I'm not real concerned with the tool used.  Just thought that it was ironic when it has caused so much furor about banning assault weapons and there wasn't even one used.

              As you say, it doesn't matter - whether a killer uses pistols, assault rifles or tubs of hot oil is immaterial.  That they are there to kill and need either to be stopped or proactive intervention to help prevent even the very thought of a mass murder to "make a point" or some other inane and insane reason is what does matter.

    2. Disappearinghead profile image89
      Disappearingheadposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      For the life of me I just cannot understand the mentality of those who turn a blind eye to the daily gun tragedies in your country and insist that there should be no increase in gun control. Just how does the right to carry a gun outweigh all these senseless deaths?

      After the Dunblane shooting in Scotland where a man armed with two handguns entered a primary school and killed several children, handguns were immediately outlawed. There were no concessions, and mandatory 5 years in prison is now given to anyone in possession of one. The government received full backing from the people for this action.

      1. Superkev profile image85
        Superkevposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        You don't have the Crips, Bloods or MS-13 knocking on your doors and carjacking your people, that's why you don't understand.

        Law Abiding gun owners are not the issue. One almost uniquely American attribute is, mostly, we refuse to be victims.

        1. Castlepaloma profile image23
          Castlepalomaposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          1. In 2008, 2,947 children and teens died from guns in the United States and 2,793 died in 2009
          for a total of 5,740

          2.Two-thirds of all gun-related deaths in the United States are suicides.

          3.The National Rifle Association has fiercely attacked this study, but it remains valid despite its criticisms. The study found that people are 21 times more likely to be killed by someone they know than a stranger breaking into the house.

          Uniquely American and refuse to be victims ? almost Lol

          1. 61
            whoisitposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            All those deaths by guns and its still the 15th leading cause of death, you are not American so why do you care?

            1. Castlepaloma profile image23
              Castlepalomaposted 3 years ago in reply to this

              Firearm Homicide is Raked 15th cause of death,

              What about firearms towards suicides, wars, and terror?
              What about authorities’ firearms those who kill more people than the criminals firearms do?
              What about negative oppression of people into poverty worldwide, because of ruling capitalist bigger Guns?

              What about all these firearms and their deaths?

              1. 61
                whoisitposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                That was all firearm deaths, thank you for understanding.

          2. Superkev profile image85
            Superkevposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            It remains valid because it confirms your bias. I like to go with the FBI Uniform Crime Statistics, which show a very different story.

            1. Castlepaloma profile image23
              Castlepalomaposted 3 years ago in reply to this

              Show some

      2. Paul Wingert profile image79
        Paul Wingertposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        @Disappearinghead "For the life of me I just cannot understand the mentality of those who turn a blind eye to the daily gun tragedies in your country and insist that there should be no increase in gun control." You have to understand the there are a good portion of Americans that are poorly educated, unable to comprehend our 2nd Amendment and just plain idiots. And out of these, some get elected so they can spread their stupidity to the masses.

        1. Disappearinghead profile image89
          Disappearingheadposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          So it would seem.

          1. Castlepaloma profile image23
            Castlepalomaposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            Your right, stupidity is the the number one killer

  10. Reality Bytes profile image93
    Reality Bytesposted 3 years ago

    example:

    I am not engaged in any commercial activity.  My vehicle is road worthy.  I am traveling to my mate's flat, a few miles away.  In front of his house law enforcement pulls me over, I have broken no traffic safety laws.

    What law has been broken, and who is the injured party that I will be able to confront in a court, which is my right?


    Lies, oppression taught to us all our lives, and we blindly accept it and consent to live under the tyranny.  Watching the shadows on the cave wall and completely disregarding the light of truth behind us.

    1. 61
      whoisitposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      The injured party is the state in which you are driving. You don't know much about this do you?

  11. Reality Bytes profile image93
    Reality Bytesposted 3 years ago

    You are either a Freeman, or a slave!

    Do you consent to be property?

    1. 61
      whoisitposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      LOL, give up.

    2. 61
      whoisitposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      Reality does bite, don't it?

      1. Reality Bytes profile image93
        Reality Bytesposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        Ponder, research just a little deeper.  Understand your sovereign status in the United States, where the people are supreme!

  12. Reality Bytes profile image93
    Reality Bytesposted 3 years ago

    Within a courtroom, it is case law that is cited. Precedent must be set.  Statutes are not laws if they were they would be law not statute.

    In order for a crime to have been committed, there must be an injured party.  Third party complaints are useless.

    Of course, you can plead to anything you want, but without understanding, the plea is in ignorance.

    1. 61
      whoisitposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      Give it up. You are wrong.

      1. Reality Bytes profile image93
        Reality Bytesposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        No, I am not.


        You are believing falsehoods simply because an entity you think has supreme authority says so, I walk the walk!

        1. 61
          whoisitposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          You need to walk if you have no drivers license.

          1. Reality Bytes profile image93
            Reality Bytesposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            So when I go outside, get in my vehicle and proceed to travel, I am imagining it?

            lol


            You are being deceived.

            1. 61
              whoisitposted 3 years ago in reply to this

              No, you are breaking the law, and you may get away with it.

  13. Reality Bytes profile image93
    Reality Bytesposted 3 years ago

    There is a constitutional right to face your accuser?  No accuser, no crime!

    1. 61
      whoisitposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      There is an accuser it is the officer who filed the charge. Weird how you don't know that.

      1. Reality Bytes profile image93
        Reality Bytesposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        If an officer has been harmed by an individual, it is their obligation to prove the loss. They will act as a witness, but as an accuser:

        Police Officer

        vs

        Your name

        Nope!

        No law enforcement officer, prosecutor, or district attorney is going to make the claim.  If questioned, the case will never see a trial court!

        Once again. you can consent to anything you want, without your consent, the charges will not stand.

        https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS3sk6007s9EC0EPLKvPRSPc6I5VAMEHUbTInik1A6NeSCt4O8d

        1. 61
          whoisitposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          You really are confused about how this all works. But its ok.

          1. Reality Bytes profile image93
            Reality Bytesposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            The confusion is not on my part.  I fully understand my status as a sovereign individual.  I am also aware of the difference between a common and admiralty jurisdiction.  But I do understand how you could be confused.  It is not as if the government system of indoctrination teaches this in their education curriculum.  It requires an individual capable of critical thinking,  and the ability to question authority.  It is alright if a person is content to be the property that the government believes they are, as a matter of fact, they depend on it to sustain their existence.


            sov·er·eign 

            Noun
            A supreme ruler

            Adjective
            Possessing supreme or ultimate power

            Synonyms
            noun.      monarch - ruler - king - lord - potentate
            adjective.      paramount - supreme - independent

            1. Castlepaloma profile image23
              Castlepalomaposted 3 years ago in reply to this

              You know a lot about America

            2. 61
              whoisitposted 3 years ago in reply to this

              I guess murder isn't a crime if you decide it isn't?

              1. Reality Bytes profile image93
                Reality Bytesposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                DUGHHH!!!

                There would be an injured party!

                You really do not comprehend the difference?

                1. 61
                  whoisitposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                  I'm afraid it is you who does not understand, better go check and see who the injured party is in any crime. It is always against the peace and dignity of (insert state). Based on what you have said all day the murder victim could not confront you in court, so the charges must be dropped.

                  You do not know the law, you have failed again.

                  1. Reality Bytes profile image93
                    Reality Bytesposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                    Failed, how have I failed?

                    Failed to convince an individual to contemplate their existence?  Failed to convince an individual of their bondage?

                    If that is failure to you, it may not be to other readers, so your sense of failure is quite subjective!

            3. Reality Bytes profile image93
              Reality Bytesposted 3 years ago in reply to this

              Some legal rulings on the status of a resident of the United States!

              US Supreme Court in U.S. v. Cooper, 312 US 600,604, 61 SCt 742 (1941):


              "Since in common usage the term `person' does not include the sovereign, statutes employing that term are ordinarily construed to exclude it.



              1794 US Supreme Court case Glass v. Sloop Betsey:

              "... Our government is founded upon compact.  Sovereignty was, and is, in the people"


              1829 US Supreme Court case Lansing v. Smith:

              "People of a state are entitled to all rights which formerly belong to the King, by his prerogative."


              US Supreme Court in 4 Wheat 402:

              "The United States, as a whole, emanates from the people ...  The people, in their capacity as sovereigns, made and adopted the Constitution ..."


              US Supreme Court in Luther v. Borden, 48 US 1, 12 LEd 581:

              "... The governments are but trustees acting under derived authority and have no power to delegate what is not delegated to them. But the people, as the original fountain might take away what they have delegated and intrust to whom they please. ... The sovereignty in every state resides in the people of the state and they may alter and change their form of government at their own pleasure."


              US Supreme Court in Yick Wo v. Hopkins, 118 US 356, page 370:

              "While sovereign powers are delegated to ... the government, sovereignty itself remains with the people ..."
              Yick Wo is a powerful anti-discrimination case. You might get the impression that the legislature can write perfectly legal laws, yet the laws cannot be enforced contrary to the intent of the people. It's as if servants do not make rules for their masters. It's as if the Citizens who created government were their masters. It's as if civil servants were to obey the higher authority. You are the higher authority of Romans 13:1. You as ruler are not a terror to good works per Romans 13:3. Imagine that! Isn't it a shame that your government was surrendered to those who are a terror to good works? Isn't it a shame that you enlisted to obey them?


              US Supreme Court in Julliard v. Greenman, 110 US 421:

              "There is no such thing as a power of inherent sovereignty in the government of the United States .... In this country sovereignty resides in the people, and Congress can exercise no power which they have not, by their Constitution entrusted to it: All else is withheld."

              http://www.usa-the-republic.com/mark%20 … endixD.htm

  14. Reality Bytes profile image93
    Reality Bytesposted 3 years ago

    The injured party is a human being.  Not a legal fiction.  Murder is an actual loss, while driving without a license harms no one or nothing!

    There is a requirement of standing.  If an individual steals from a store, there is enough standing to pursue a claim.  There is a loss/harm that can be proven.

    The only loss in driving without a license is loss of revenue to the state, that is a civil matter.

    1. Castlepaloma profile image23
      Castlepalomaposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      I wish most laws simplfied down to loss or Harm, guns are design or loss or harm for most part.

      1. Reality Bytes profile image93
        Reality Bytesposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        True, firearms are weapons of destruction.  Why do the laws differentiate between persons?  If a person, such as Blackwater is allowed to own a specific type of firearm, why can't every person retain that right?  Why are human beings held to higher standards than corporate people?

        http://www.infiniteunknown.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/blackwater.jpg

        1. 61
          whoisitposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          http://s4.hubimg.com/u/7636495_f248.jpg

    2. 61
      whoisitposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      You know, I agree with the sentiment but it makes no difference. The law says if you are operating a motor vehicle on public roads you must have a drivers license. Every state has the same law! Now, you are saying that it is unenforceable because there is no injured party. I am saying it is enforceable because I and every other citizen in the state is the injured party, we have given peace officers in that state the authority to act on our behalf to enforce the law!

      You can argue all day and night and you will be wrong all day and night.

      1. Josak profile image61
        Josakposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        Well put.

      2. Reality Bytes profile image93
        Reality Bytesposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so.
        - Thomas Jefferson


        If engaged in commercial activity, I concede the people have a right to have their representatives regulate the actions.  Merely travelling and causing no harm is an unjust law, and the majority has no right to impose their will on the individual.  If it is simply for the revenue, it is not a criminal matter, it is civil and falls under a jurisdiction outside the authority of law enforcement agents.

        The right to travel can be infringed upon due process, but if no crime has been committed, driving without a license is irrelevant.

        1. 61
          whoisitposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          Driving without a license is what we are talking about The thread is titled "We all need licenses and insurance for a car, not firearms?" Only you are talking about traveling!

          1. Reality Bytes profile image93
            Reality Bytesposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            Same thing.  Requesting permission to engage in legal activities is unjust.  All persons are equal under law, I do not need another's permission or requirement of a license to involve myself in legal actions.

            What is the legal definition of driving?  That is what we are discussing

            1. Reality Bytes profile image93
              Reality Bytesposted 3 years ago in reply to this

              Would you support the requirement of a permit to engage in coitus?

              Freemen do, slaves ask!

            2. 61
              whoisitposted 3 years ago in reply to this

              You refuse to accept reality, which is odd given your name.

              1. Reality Bytes profile image93
                Reality Bytesposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                It is not I, but you that is having difficulty with reality.

                You have been defending your own oppression, actually clamoring for more, which is your right.

                It is the worshipping of authority that is the stumbling block.  If da gub' a' ment says it, it has to be true.  Unquestioning obedience is a malady that has lowered the residents of the United States from sovereign individuals to chattel slaves.

                btw: I enjoy civil discussions.  smile

                1. 61
                  whoisitposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                  No, I have been explaining to you to no avail that you by law must have a drivers license to operate a motor vehicle on public roads. You have been railing against it because you don't like it, but in any case I am right and you are wrong.

                  Now you can continue to fight the power.

                  1. Reality Bytes profile image93
                    Reality Bytesposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                    I know, you believe in blind obedience to your masters.  As a Freeman, I have no masters, but I will not oppose your right to do as you please.

                    Where would you draw the line?  Would you willingly go to your local town hall to request a Coitus Permit if legislated to do so?






                    "Just victims of the in-house drive-by
                    They say jump, you say how high"

                    RATM

                    What is the legal definition of driving?

  15. Reality Bytes profile image93
    Reality Bytesposted 3 years ago

    I understand that the legal system enforces the statutes.  Why are they able to do this? Because people do not know better and plead guilty out of fear.  Yet, if everyone charged with unjust laws takes the opportunity to oppose the charge, the legal system would become so overwhelmed, they would have to cease the enforcement.

    We can use the system to our advantage if we just realized the actual authority we hold.

    1. Castlepaloma profile image23
      Castlepalomaposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      I get that it is really our right to have a car license within reason. I think the illusions that Whoist is taking about is that most people are enslaved by debt and much like the illusion of people owning  an American dream home.  Many places in Canada and the USA.  If a person cannot pay their financial obligation toward many kinds of Government debt situation. 

      For example filing bankruptcy may or may not  help you get your drivers license back if it was taken away due to unpaid tickets or an accident or without proper insurance. The license is taken away because people did not meet a financial obligation, and the state imposes loss of the license as a penalty for that.

      1. Reality Bytes profile image93
        Reality Bytesposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        So you understand requesting permission to engage in legal activities,  and paying the extortion fees to do so is nothing more than a system of control?

        The truly sad part is, the debt is a lie as well.  An individual is allowed to borrow worthless computer code, and if unable to pay, the bank repossess actual property.  Think about it, the banks were bailed out when it was realized that a significant number of borrowers were going to default.  Their little fictionally backed securities were worthless.   The people's wealth rescued them out of their difficulties while human beings suffered.  The banks are now earning a profit, AND they own the properties that have actual value.  The people are now being oppressed by their ridiculously high usury fees due to the impact on their credit rating. The individual is having their available, revolving credit lines (cards)  revoked, causing their debt to income percentage to lower their credit scores, once the score reaches a predetermined number the interest rates skyrocket.

        The largest hoax ever perpetrated.  So nefarious that the majority of the people will never even begin to grasp the criminal activity engaged in by the world's supposed leaders.

        Yet the residents of the United States are sovereign, never in history has the common human being retained such authority, but because it is repressed knowledge, the people allow their servants to dictate almost every aspect of their lives.  Stupid Statute rules are not in place to prevent any particular activity.  They are used in full knowledge that they will be broken.  The government depends on these statute violation fees to sustain their existence.  But as long as the masses are entertained with bread and circuses, they consent to the multiple levels of deceit and oppression that exist, trading their supreme authority for beneficial breadcrumbs. They have no idea, every law has become so complex, the majority of people could never understand the American legal system, our prisons are constructed with legislative actions !

        "Not having knowledge of the law is no excuse, so we are going to make it so F'ing confusing, we cannot even understand it all ourselves!"  Da Gub' a' ment.

        Do you know there is no legal definition of a terrorist. The definition is, if the Corporation of the UNITED STATES says you are a terrorist, you are.  Bang bang your dead, no trial, no reason said...   Shhhh!,  state secrets?

        1. Castlepaloma profile image23
          Castlepalomaposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          By GW. Bush and gang,  I had my USA work permits taking away for refusing to do a War sculpture for them.
          Maybe I was lucky, because, “ if you’ll not for them, your a terrorist. “

          There is no forgiveness for people who owe the Government like for car insurances, student loans, fines, child and spouse support and etc. Seems like hell for them to be indebt forever and have their car license taken away to top it all off.

  16. Ralph Deeds profile image69
    Ralph Deedsposted 3 years ago

    Did conservative talk radio wind Jimmy Lee Dykes up?

    "Descriptions of Jimmy Lee Dykes, who murdered a school bus driver, kidnapped a boy from the bus and is holding him hostage in a six by eight foot bunker in Alabama, may give evidence that conservative talk radio should join video games on the NRA's don't-blame-guns list of societal influences that cause people to use guns to kill."

    "Michael Creel said Dykes kept to himself and listened to a lot of conservative talk radio.

    “He was very into what’s going on with the nation and the politics and all the laws being made. The things he didn’t agree with, he would ventilate,” he said.

    http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/02/0 … -his-anger

    1. Castlepaloma profile image23
      Castlepalomaposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      Who really knows where this angry man is really coming from?
      Dykes, a Vietnam vet who moved to hide away in Florida outleted by a radio is coming from. He may have killed a man in Vietnam that harmed his soul and by a lack of healing or mental help in the US. He may have taken it out on somewhere else, anywhere else.

      Yes killing is a mental illness, killing him by the death penalty to prove killing is wrong, only proves the authorities are wrong rather than making him work in prison for life and find ways to treat his mental illness. Beside death penalty cost more than life in prison and if the authorities make him work for every freedom like even reading a book, all the better for all of us

      Cause and effect- Killing only promote more killing in general. My hands are clean, I better make sure of that before I point my finger on any topic.

 
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