jump to last post 1-19 of 19 discussions (69 posts)

Owning a gun exponentially raises the chances of suicide.

  1. Josak profile image60
    Josakposted 4 years ago

    Particularly in teens who use the family gun, across all states, higher gun ownership correlates to higher suicide rates, households with guns are far more likely to have a member commit suicide.

    http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/hicrc/firea … p-and-use/

    1. Marsden4 profile image87
      Marsden4posted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Heard this statistic a few years back.

      Extremely sad.

    2. BuckyGoldstein profile image60
      BuckyGoldsteinposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Only in households where someone is suicidal, households without guns they will choose an alternate route, its what people who are suicidal do.  Any studies on that?

      1. wilderness profile image96
        wildernessposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        They may, but actual suicide with a gun is far more likely to succeed than suicide by most other methods.  An attempt may be made, but is far less likely to produce death.

        The result is, I think. that households without guns will have fewer successful suicides than households with guns.  A guess only, but I would suspect that there are fewer attempts as well - a trigger is quick and easy, slitting your wrists not so much.

        1. BuckyGoldstein profile image60
          BuckyGoldsteinposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Total Suicides 38,364

          In 2010 Firearm suicides 19,392
          Suffocation/Poisoning 16,092
          2,880 other means

          I don't know if the other households had guns are not...do you?

          1. wilderness profile image96
            wildernessposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            With 50% of suicides being by guns it is almost a surety that over 1/2 of the households with a suicide also had a gun in it.

            Whether that figure is 51% or 99% we don't know, just that it is statistically more likely that a household with a gun will have a suicide than without a gun.  While the "[b]far]/b] more likely" in the OP could be a gross exaggeration, "more likely" is not.

          2. bBerean profile image59
            bBereanposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Too little info to draw the conclusions the anti gun folks want too.  Without a national registry, how do they know how many homes actually had guns?  Registration laws vary from state to state.  Some folks are registered but no longer own the guns.  Were guns locked and stored properly, or did people who shouldn't have access have it anyway?  Do the homes counted as not having guns, actually have guns that aren't registered or even required to be registered?  If every (or any) home that does not have a handgun in the study, had a shot gun, (many are short enough barrels for suicide now and do not require registration), your data is trash.  Did people who used guns do so because they were handy or did they plan ahead and purchase or borrow a gun for the occasion?  I am sure we could come up with many more variables not considered, which would be required for the study to be viable.  Not enough controlled data, to be certain of much, but it does make for good propaganda.

            1. Josak profile image60
              Josakposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              If you read the links up top the data is covered from several perspectives, average gun ownership by state, polled households with guns, etc.
              All data shows that well over 95% of suicides are spur of the moment.

              1. bBerean profile image59
                bBereanposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Again, many of the relevant issues I mentioned, however, are not covered, nor could they be.  Registration laws vary including what guns require registration.  Some folks don't report owning guns.  Shot guns do not typically require registration, etc.  An accurate national registry of all guns would be required for a study like this to be accurate, but that can never happen.  Once they start requiring it, they will have access to even less accurate data because many folks won't comply.

                1. Josak profile image60
                  Josakposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  It was tackled from the gun purchases direction too, with any social study there will never be a complete elimination of variables, perhaps gun owners are just much more likely to snap and kill themselves, we don't know but we can make safe inferences from major discrepancies in data.

                  The male vs female suicide discrepancy is actually mainly down to gun usage. This is certainly not a case of blaming the tool but rather discovering the role that the tool plays in the process.

                  1. BuckyGoldstein profile image60
                    BuckyGoldsteinposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Guns don't cause suicides, guns don't do anything. If you believe otherwise then, well, you figure it out.

      2. Josak profile image60
        Josakposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Yup, suicide rates are much lower in households without guns, they in fact do not try something else, suicide is statistically speaking usually a split second decision, lacking an easy way to do it makes people take some time before they do and change their mind.

        As wilderness pointed out also, guns are a very successful method of suicide, other methods often do not kill people and most people are unlikely to try again. For example research was done on people who were stopped when trying to kill themselves on the Golden gate Bridge, over 95% never attempted it again.

        1. wilderness profile image96
          wildernessposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Too bad that your link doesn't give the study, just the conclusions without specifics.

    3. profile image0
      JaxsonRaineposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      This is why parents with kids in the house need to keep their guns locked up.

      1. Josak profile image60
        Josakposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Precisely.

      2. wilderness profile image96
        wildernessposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        One of the reasons anyway - there are certainly more.

      3. Marcy Goodfleisch profile image94
        Marcy Goodfleischposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        My cousin's daughter killed herself with a gun that was safely locked in a cabinet.  She was an adult, and had demonstrated no signs of wanting to harm herself. She had access to the locked cabinet (as a responsible adult in the household) and there was never a reason to think she needed help or counseling.  She took the gun out of the cabinet early one morning before going to work, while her parents were asleep.  She was later found in a parking lot, in her car.  It was truly sad; something parents never recover from experiencing.

        1. profile image0
          JaxsonRaineposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Sadly, we can't prevent all crime, and we can't stop all suicides. It's always horrible.

          1. profile image84
            Education Answerposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            This is certainly true.  Owning a gun is a responsibility.  Good things generally come with gun ownership, but there are possible consequences too.  Isn't that true about just about many of the freedoms we enjoy?

            Ultimately, it is a sad truth that crime and suicide will continue regardless of whether or not gun ownership expands or not.  The root problem isn't gun access; it's caused depression, bullying, poor economic situations, drug and alcohol abuse, gangs, and so many other issues.  Guns are only the tool by which some commit their crime.

    4. tirelesstraveler profile image86
      tirelesstravelerposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Are you doing all right?  I just read one of your comments and thought is Josak depressed?  Please. if you are depressed do something positive.  I just listened to someone talk about the purpose of living. She is an advocate for the disabled.  She has testified before congress and traveled the world helping people.  She is a quadriplegic and has been in a wheel chair for 45 years. but she has lived life to the fullest. 
      I wish I could send you some of our California sunshine.  Sitting in the sun is always the best cure for depression.  Fact not just perception.   Increased vitamin D helps depression dramatically.

      1. Josak profile image60
        Josakposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        No I am fine but your concern is very kind. smile

        1. tirelesstraveler profile image86
          tirelesstravelerposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Glad to hear it. Your posts keep me thinking and sometimes amused.

    5. prettydarkhorse profile image63
      prettydarkhorseposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Interesting.

      Guns facilitate suicides. Suicide using guns is easier, faster and a sure way to die. This is just me not backed by researches.

  2. profile image84
    Education Answerposted 4 years ago

    Because of this startling statistic, ALL guns must be banned.

    We must also ban all cars, as it is a proven fact that more people who own a car are involved in car accidents than those who do not.

    We must also ban computers, as it is a proven fact that more children who are exposed to computers see pornography on the Internet.

    We must ban soda, as it is a proven fact that more people who consume this beverage are overweight. 

    The comparisons go on and on.

    Freedom.  Choices.  Common sense.

    1. wilderness profile image96
      wildernessposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Now, now.  So far no one has been silly enough to propose that.  So far, anyway...

      It's just a sad statistic that says we need to work on mental illness so far.

      1. BuckyGoldstein profile image60
        BuckyGoldsteinposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        "We must ban soda, as it is a proven fact that more people who consume this beverage are overweight."

        They have come close with this one.

        1. wilderness profile image96
          wildernessposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          They're far down the road with cigarettes, too.  And tried once already with alcohol.

    2. Josak profile image60
      Josakposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      I never said any such thing, it is however (I think) an argument for better mental health checks for those purchasing guns and a reminder to keep those guns safely stored where children and teenagers cannot access them unsupervised.

      Also it is something more people should be aware of so they can better know the risks of buying a gun before doing so.

      1. profile image84
        Education Answerposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Josak,

        You are right.  Freedom requires responsibility.  When one has a gun in their home, they do need to educate/train their children, lock guns away, and make sure accidents do not happen.  Fair point.

        I'm a bit concerned by your other statement.  Yes, we need to make sure that only responsible people who are mentally stable have access to weapons.  I believe we do this by enforcing existing laws, not by adding new laws.  Additional regulation is not necessary and runs the risk of eroding our Constitutional rights, something we should fight to preserve.

  3. jandee profile image45
    jandeeposted 4 years ago

    Why don't they just buy a nice bottle of French Red and smile at everyone,then watch a cowboy film .

  4. bBerean profile image59
    bBereanposted 4 years ago

    Another assumption is being made.  That folks choosing to use guns are doing it because of convenience and expediency.  I am sure that to some degree, for some, it is true.  It may also mean they are very serious.  Compare attempted suicides to successful suicides and you find different demographics have different success...the most glaring being males are successful much more often.  If these decisions were spur of the moment and given another moment,  the person may not have done it, your conclusions are relevant.  We don't know.  It may be that they are very determined and took an effective course because they were going to do it no matter what it took.  A gun was the most sure bet, and had they not had access, they may have gained access another way or chosen their next most lethal option.  You can't know, so again, not being able to interview dead people, all that is being done is speculation and assumption.  As with crime, blaming the tool won't solve the problem.  Suicidal folks have bigger issues than the creativity required to achieve their self destructive goal.

    1. wilderness profile image96
      wildernessposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Good point.  Cut wrists, poison, etc. give someone else a chance to intervene.  I imagine that a gun user sometimes does it just to avoid that, some others want intervention.  They don't actually want to die, they want someone to pay attention and a gun won't do that for them.

  5. ahorseback profile image44
    ahorsebackposted 4 years ago

    I ,....ah Im a little confused , "suicide is more likely to be succesful with a gun in the house ", okay is that like um  skiing is more succesfful on ski's?

    1. Josak profile image60
      Josakposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Not really tongue

    2. wilderness profile image96
      wildernessposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Half of all suicides don't use guns.  I doubt they would agree with your concept.

  6. profile image0
    Dan Bristolposted 4 years ago

    Owning a gun also tends to scare away socialists and their pet project: the criminals.

    1. Josak profile image60
      Josakposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Which is why socialist democratic countries have such high crime rates... oh wait they have the lowest in the world.

      Well there goes that.

    2. jandee profile image45
      jandeeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Can't scare me..

  7. BuckyGoldstein profile image60
    BuckyGoldsteinposted 4 years ago

    And it doesn't matter how many times you liberals produce a flawed study guns are not going anywhere! And thats a good thing.

    1. Josak profile image60
      Josakposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      I don't want them to, I own a few myself.

      The fact that you are so upset about this being posted however can only lead to the inference that you would prefer people not accurately know the risks of gun ownership, which is pretty disturbing really.

      1. BuckyGoldstein profile image60
        BuckyGoldsteinposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Suicide is not a risk of gun ownership!

        270,000,000 gun owners and 19,000 suicides involving firearms, thats not a risk. That isn't even worth the time it took me to post this.

        And before you accuse me of being unfeeling towards people who kill themselves I will gladly admit that is true.

        1. Josak profile image60
          Josakposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Firstly there are nowhere near 270 000 000 gun owners they are about that many GUNS in the US but the average gun ownership is about 3.8 so wrong on that count secondly 19 000 a year adds up to about one and a half million suicides in the average lifetime which is a pretty monumental number.

          It is thus clearly a risk of gun ownership, particularly for teenagers of households with weapons, it's too bad you don't care, some people do.

          1. BuckyGoldstein profile image60
            BuckyGoldsteinposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            You're right, had the number stuck in my head of guns in the U.S..

            So roughly 52 million American households owning 260 million guns. The typical family size is what 4? I'll say 3, thats 156 million people who could possibly have access to a gun!

            Still not even close to being a risk!

            8,583 murders involving firearms in 2011 even less of a risk of being murdered by gun.

            And no, I will never care if people kill themselves.

  8. kathleenkat profile image90
    kathleenkatposted 4 years ago

    That's ridiculous. That's like saying driving a car increases your chances of being involved in an auto accident. Of course it does-- just like eating food increases your chances of being fat.

    I don't know how they would accurately measure this. What is the control, and what is the test, in this study? How do you know these kids wouldn't have found a way to kill themselves without guns being around? If someone wants to kill themselves, and there's a gun around, of course they will use the quickest and easiest way. If not, well, we all know there are other ways, with lower success rates I suppose. I guess we don't like the gun because it has pretty much a 100% success rate. But seriously, how is this even a proveable study?

    1. Josak profile image60
      Josakposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Read it.

      Suicide is in the vast majority of situations a spur of the moment act, lacking an efficient means will usually mean not doing it, as states several times 95%+ of people who were stopped from killing themselves on the Golden Gate bridge never tried again, that is why suicides are so much more common in households with guns, they provide and easy and effective method.

      1. kathleenkat profile image90
        kathleenkatposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        I seriously doubt that those who actually commit suicide come up with it in "spur of the moment." I would surmise it takes a hell of a lot of planning and preparation, and a series of events leading up to the particular decision.

        How do you know those people would have killed themselves, or would have not killed themselves, anyway? My guess is someone who is serious about suicide isn't going to allow time for people to "convince" them not to do it (jump off the bridge, to reference your example). If you want to kill yourself, the best time to do it it is when nobody is around, and the best way to do it is a fool proof method (i.e., a gun, or perhaps jumping off a bridge).

        There is no proof to this study. This is a good hypothesis, at best. You cannot ask someone who has killed themselves with a gun, whether it's a "spur of the moment" thing, can you? There is no control to this experiment, because all successful suicides are dead.

  9. ahorseback profile image44
    ahorsebackposted 4 years ago

    Josak , No way my friend , "a spur of he moment "  No way , anyone one who is serious about suicide isn't   ....anything about spur of the moment !  You will never convince me that suicide works that way .

    1. Josak profile image60
      Josakposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      You may be closed off to the facts but that does not change them, all studies bear this out, I already presented the Golden Gate study as an example.

    2. BuckyGoldstein profile image60
      BuckyGoldsteinposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      And you would be correct. http://www.psychotherapybrownbag.com/ps … ction.html

      Summary:

      Without question, impulsivity is related to suicidal behavior.  That being said, the data do not support the notion that suicide attempts tend to occur on the "spur of the moment" without substantial planning.  In fact, a study by Witte and colleagues (2008) indicated that impulsive individuals tend to plan their attempts more than non-impulsive individuals and studies by Baca-Garcia and colleagues (2001, 2005) demonstrated that the more impulsive an attempt is, the less medically serious it tends to be.

    3. Josak profile image60
      Josakposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      I thought this was interesting too:

      http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/06/magaz … print&

      It's a study of what happened after the British women lost one of their most common forms of suicide (a particular oven type) once those were replaced the suicide rate dropped by about a third and has stayed that way since.

      1. jandee profile image45
        jandeeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Josak, when a child I remember this big girl,about 18 and she was found dead with her head inside the gas oven.  Some thoughts were that she had meant to kill herself while other schools of thought were that she had merely been drying her hair to go out-----------later we had north sea gas ,I think it couldn't gas one!
        Not sure ...
        best to you Josak,
        jandee

  10. Jewel01 profile image60
    Jewel01posted 4 years ago

    Men are more successful when attempting suicide, because they are more likely to use violent means, such as shooting, or hanging themselves.  I appreciate the hub, in that you have tried to point out the risk and dangers, associated with gun ownership.

  11. jandee profile image45
    jandeeposted 4 years ago

    Oh! By the way !   Rachel Corrie was killed by an Israeli bullet as she was protecting Palestinian homes..

  12. jandee profile image45
    jandeeposted 4 years ago

    Please excuse my mistake as Rachel Corrie was killed by an Israeli Bulldozer while protecting Palestinian homes.....

  13. Hitmangordo profile image77
    Hitmangordoposted 4 years ago

    I agree, Still it's not the gun that pulls the trigger. It's the person. I'm 58 years old and never ran across anything like this. You can shot without hunting or killing and have a great time. Just teach those around you to respect a gun, how to use it. It's just a tool. Cain killed his brother with an assault rock!
    People need to wise up. did that rock just go off? No Cain pulled the trigger on that rock it wasn't the rock. By the way an assault weapon is NOT a semi auto it is a fully auto. Know what your talking about, some people believe the media.

    1. Jewel01 profile image60
      Jewel01posted 4 years ago in reply to this

      I believe the hub was to inform people that homes with guns in them are, more likely to have a suicide, by a gun.  It was simply to inform individuals how important it is to store them safely.  Yes, people are killed everyday, and commit suicide, using other means.  That is not arguable.  Rather than the conversation tilting toward, what we can do to be more aware of the dangers associated with gun ownership, the argument is swayed toward, how stupid people are, such as Gabby Gifford's husband, or how Cain killed Abel.  The topic being guns and suicide, might sway some to have sympathy for those who kill themselves, and possibly family member who will have to pick up the pieces. 

      I don't believe this hub was to insight a ban on gun control of any kind, but about mental health.  Does anyone ever listen to another person anymore, or are we so afraid that their thoughts would infringe on our right to be "right?"  Not everyone can agree on all things, but we can try to be conscious of each other, regarding the fears or concerns, one may have.  We need to not open a discussion with being defensive, but ask the person, "why they feel that way?"  No man is an island, so the saying goes, so it can't be all about "you" (speaking about all people, in general, not you particularly), 

      Communication; taking the time to listen and talk to each other, would go along way, whether it's the topic of suicide, or gun control.

      1. BuckyGoldstein profile image60
        BuckyGoldsteinposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        "Owning a gun exponentially raises the chances of suicide."

        "I don't believe this hub was to insight a ban on gun control of any kind, but about mental health."

        What in the title leads you to believe this is about mental health?

        1. Jewel01 profile image60
          Jewel01posted 4 years ago in reply to this

          BG, really are are you that blind, get a grip on yourself.  You really don't want to know who I am, it has to obvious this is about mental health. Are you more worried about your rights or how you re-act within a world who may not expect you?

  14. DIYmommy profile image72
    DIYmommyposted 4 years ago

    Didn't Gabby Gifford's husband just recently attempt to purchase a gun, in order to prove how easy it was for almost anyone to purchase a gun? As far as I understand, upon hearing about his 'intentions', the gun shop owner canceled his order for the gun.

    1. BuckyGoldstein profile image60
      BuckyGoldsteinposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Why shouldn't it be easy for him to buy a gun? He has no history of mental health problems,drug addiction,alcohol addiction. The guy is a stand up dude! The truth is he bought an AR-15 and when the press got wind of it he decided since it made him look bad (no clue why) he concocted a story of purchasing the weapon to show how easy it is to buy one.

      Making it harder for responsible citizens to buy a gun is just stupid! The only goal the liberals have in this country is to ban all firearms and they used the deaths of small children to move this political agenda further.

      And now Josak is using suicide to hopefully advance this agenda, its all pretty disgusting to use the deaths of others to limit my constitutional right to keep and bear arms. But liberals never care how the agenda is advanced only that it is advanced!

  15. ahorseback profile image44
    ahorsebackposted 4 years ago

    Suicide is one huge grey area , to so easily place reasons, tags and labels on it is injust , facts and statistics , I find are less and less reliable  as I age .  Its so politically popular right now to blame the object  [  here the gun ] , and to deny the reasons , the signs and the personal responsibity of friends and family and society  . And what about  the personal accountability of the one who choses to take their own life or anothers ,for that matter  !

  16. my_girl_sara profile image88
    my_girl_saraposted 4 years ago

    No one is allowed to own a gun in Japan yet they have a higher suicide rate than we do in the US. If you want to do it, sadly you'll find a way.

  17. Ralph Deeds profile image70
    Ralph Deedsposted 4 years ago

    Lanza's incredible weapons inventory and writings indicate he was seriously deranged and was planning long in advance to slaughter as many children as he could. Police speculate that he hoped to exceed the record of Angers Breivik who killed 69 teenagers at a summer camp in Sweden.

    "...An extensive assortment of ammunition and weapons, including rifles, knives and samurai swords; damaged computer equipment; journals; a newspaper clip of a school shooting at Northern Illinois University; and a report card from the time Adam Lanza attended Sandy Hook Elementary School.

    "Document: Search Warrants for the Lanza Residence

    "Those were among a chilling inventory of items the police found in the home where Mr. Lanza plotted one of the deadliest school shootings in the nation’s history, according to search warrants of the home unsealed on Thursday for the first time since the Newtown, Conn., massacre in December...."

    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/29/nyreg … p&_r=0

  18. American View profile image60
    American Viewposted 4 years ago

    Per the Article:

    The evidence that gun availability increases the suicide rates of adults is credible, but is currently less compelling.  Most of the disaggregate findings of particular studies (e.g. handguns are more of a risk factor than long guns, guns stored unlocked pose a greater risk than guns stored locked) are suggestive but not yet well established.

    In other words, the study does not prove a correlation of guns in a home and an increase in suicides.

  19. ahorseback profile image44
    ahorsebackposted 4 years ago

    Suicide ! How about this , everyone of them could be prevented but for the  symbolic turn your head away and think of something else , instead of an understanding society that reaches out to those most vulnerable ,  every suicide is planned in the midst of loved ones , schools full  of "friends " , and bedrooms  full of lovers ,  But do we reach out in any way of understanding ,No ,,,,its the guns fault! , thats moronic ! Shallow !

 
working